NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - To Tank or Not To Tank?

Episode Date: March 18, 2019

A room filled with heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal discuss Giants GM Dave Gettlemen’s explanation for trading Odell Beckham Jr. (7:17) before launching into news of the Dolphins signing Ryan Fitzpatrick (16:13), The Bengals cutting Vontaze Burfict (26:57) while re-signing Tyler Eifert (29:47), and Haloti Ngata announcing his retirement in an epic way (32:21). To close the show, the heroes chat about Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie coming out of retirement to play for the Redskins (41:54) and the Raiders releasing 3-time pro bowl tackle Donald Penn (47:29).Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Posts its workouts to Instagram Live. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hans. and I am joined in a room filled with heroes, Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosethal.

What is up, boys? Hey, Dan. Happy Monday. Post-nose workouts? I haven't yet, but if you guys are going to do it, I guess I could do it as well. I think the closest I've seen is TD's little basketball setup that he has sometimes. Our former producer. Now, like, four years removed from producing the show.

I mean, we've been around a while. Sitting in on meetings with LeBron James talking strategy. for a LeBron's media company. I'm sure he's bringing a lot to that role. Welcome to our show. You know, the free agency wave, it is high and it is mighty, but it crashes very quickly. And just a little, you know, an example of that is after two hours of live coverage

here at Underfield Network with Andrew Siciliano, the up-to-the-minute program, they cut in the middle of the afternoon to an AAF game between the Birmingham iron and the San Diego. go, Fleet, it's actually starting to come in now. It's starting to, like, the muscle memory for AAAF terms is coming together. So that gives you a bit of an idea that things have slowed down on the free agency end of things. Greg, there's still names out there. But in terms of, ooh, la, la, it's over now.

Yeah, I mean, I'm interested to see where Justin Houston and Dama can sue Ziggiazza, guys like that go. But it's few and far between. There might be some surprise trades, but if we knew they were coming, they wouldn't be surprised. and that's why I'm just jumping full into the AEF and the story of Luis Perez, which has now convinced Chris Wessling that the AAF is a worthwhile operation. Well, 3% of that is true.

What is his story? He's an interesting guy. His father played Major League Soccer in Mexico. Not interesting so far. He has bowled 12 perfect games. Okay, not bad. Never played football in high school because he was recruited for a bowling scholarship.

I don't know what happened in his life that that somehow fell through. and then now here he is playing football at the highest level. Well, you know. Wait, Wes, now you're watching, now you're all in on AAF game? I have not watched a single snap. I just, when Greg mentioned Louis Perez, I remember that, like, coming out of college,

he seemed to have an interesting story. And Peter Schreger has a nice video about it. More importantly, Mark, there, I have not watched a lot of AAF action, but it was on my, sitting on my television at my desk. In the snippet I watched, it was Terrell Davis in the studio. They were talking Trent Richardson, by the way, who has 17 touchdowns or something now.

So our sandwich prop could be still hanging the bell. Troubled. Torell Davis from the studio throwing it back to the game telecast booth featuring Matt Money Smith. I mean, how many jobs can you have? At what point do you go home? MJD and Marvin Lewis, all men on the NFL media payroll. We haven't gotten a call yet to get a taste of that AAF. I did hear Greg downstairs say, I'm going to get involved.

in this AAAF action next season. So I think that will change. Greg will pursue that. Well, next year. I'm saying bring us all. I think, I mean, you better be careful. I didn't hear. I didn't hear we're all going to do it.

I just heard I've got to. I said if you got to, if you throw that out there, Dan, you got to be ready to, because I think they would like to say no. The sort of coverage that maybe a podcast could bring. Join Vince McMahon in the XFL next year. That's open. I mean, they have Johnny Mansell now, too. I'm not sure there's a clamoring for an AAF podcast.

The around the AAF pod. It has a decent ring to it. I mean, we've spent a solid five plus minutes on it already. You've got to start somewhere. And the key is, as long as those checks are clearing, I mean, Matt Money Smith, he's not turning down any jobs. If you want to buy some property down here in Los Angeles area, we've got to get some new jobs.

You were reading into it correctly, Mark. This is Greg. He's an ambitious young man, and I respect him for that. He wants to get his foot in the door. I threw out there. There is not at this point an AAF media insider. like an Ian Rappaport role. Maybe Greg could throw himself headlong into the transaction business.

I like that. And what was my response? That's a joke. Who would want to do that job? I don't want to do that. You're just talking about it. It's year one of the league. It keeps growing.

There are many things I would do like in a different light of work than try to be an insider. Getting your foot in the door right now is like getting your foot into the NFL in 1920. Bingo. Go along for the ride, buddy. Big show coming up. Big, big show coming up. we're going to go spin through the news some free agent happenings

that have occurred since our last show we recorded on Friday morning so it's been a bit so we'll catch up on all that and Dave Gettlement speaks and we listen because there's a morbid curiosity for all things coming out of

northern New Jersey these days Mark before we get to the news though I do want to check in with you it is a new day of course for the Cleveland Browns and you as a Browns fan you said on Wednesday when we first talked about the Odell Beckham trade, that you would need the weekend to truly process it,

take us through your mind as it floated through this magical forest of possibility surrounding your Cleveland Browns. I feel two things. I feel very realistically optimistic about what they put together. And I also feel something that Andrew Siciliano mentioned when I did a piece with him on Friday about all that's happened is that the longtime Browns fan, is naturally in a position where you're waiting for something awful to happen. And you almost need a period of time for something not awful to happen, and maybe the entire season to play out in a non-disasterous way to truly shake it. Any Browns fan that's been around since the 80s that tells me they're just perfect,

everything is great now, has not actually absorbed what's come before. So cautious optimism, but I really like what they've done and that they're going for it. Why not? Why be in the front office of an NFL team without trying just to go for it and win? Give me a break. That's what they've been doing for two decades. Believe land.

I know you're a man who likes to, on occasion, get away from it all. Maybe have a book, a Karowak book, and a glass of wine in the corner of a bar. Did you find that type of peaceful place? And instead of Karawak, you just looked into the air and thought about the possibilities. Did you have that moment where you processed it?

I would say that one other low-level factor that I'm not sure I want to mention into too much details that the rest of my life feels like it's slightly on fire with responsibilities and economic woes right now. So it's not truly a vacation land. So maybe the weekend wasn't the place. No, I think it will come in time. It is funny as a family man. The weekend, when you're younger, everybody's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

When you get older and you got kids and family and money and responsibility, it's basically, you know, a landmine of responsibility. It has little treasures. It has little treasures, but it's not a, what you're doing, not everyone's going to want to watch on their Instagram story Sunday through Saturday through Sunday. All right, there you go. Checked in with Mark, how to do that. Now let's get into the news. This narrative that Eli's all the paid and can't play is a crock.

All right, that was the voice of Dave Gettelman, the general manager and executive vice president of the New York football giant. And as we know, Gettleman is under fire after making the incredibly surprising decision to part ways with O'Dell Beckham, as we were just talking about. So he spoke with the media, apparently, you know, obviously a lot of questions about why he did it. You heard there, the little snippet. He got back behind the idea of everyone wants to write off Eli, but look at his numbers and how the team improved once the offensive line. I've improved in the back half of 2018, so we could break that down. But let's start by listening to his explanation why O'Dell Beckham Jr. is no longer playing for the Giants.

Odell was a tremendous talent, making him a valuable asset. With football being the ultimate team game, and you guys know I've said that a number of times, with football being the ultimate team game, we turned that fact into three assets at the very least. Some have questioned why we signed O'Dell and then traded him. As I said publicly twice, we didn't sign him to trade him, but obviously things changed. And frankly, what changed is another team made an offer we couldn't refuse. And as it turned out, the fact that he was signed for five more years made him very attractive and enabled us to get legitimate value. your thoughts on that chris wesley

Dave get on him has a podium which means he can disseminate whatever propaganda he wants but there are consequences and one of those consequences has been this team has eight wins in two years the quarterback has some of the worst numbers in game films of any starting quarterback and the roster is one of the worst in the NFL now take the skills that can be separated from surrounding talent is the quarterback's past supposed to nosedive just before it reaches the wide receiver

Is his deep ball supposed to look like it ran into a wall of wind? Is he supposed to fall into habits where he only trust in breaking routes? Is he supposed to be a statue in the pocket where he's unable to deal with pressure? These are the things you can see with Eli Manning outside of his offensive line, outside of his wide receivers. This is what Eli Manning is bringing to the table. And his mis-evaluation of Eli Manning, going back to last year when he said he came in not to rebuild but to tweak the roster, and he said Eli Man, he was still a Pro Bowl quarterback, this is haunting the franchise still to this day

and will continue to haunt the franchise. He has a credibility issue, Dave Gettleman. I mean, that's the problem is he's making these statements that, oh, something came up. Someone offered us a great trade. Well, yeah, someone would offer a trade after you pay a huge signing bonus to all the top players in the league.

Hey, let's go trade for Aaron Donald right now and a bunch of his base salaries. But the Rams aren't going to do it. Like, let's go trade for a number of, like, great players. players after you already paid for a huge signing bonus, they're not going to do it. So he's lying, and he also lied by saying that it was just a football decision, that it didn't have to do with the off-field stuff. And that's part of the problem is when you're trying to sell this idea of the Giants as some

franchise that in any way is different or better than any other franchise, it's just not believable anymore. It's not. If it's just a football decision, it is a awful decision. It's a decision that should get you fired. And like I said last week, I think it's going to be very difficult barring some magic Eli season here that he survives this because this is as bad PR as a general manager's had in some time. But to me, the only way that move, Mark, made sense was if there was a lot going on behind the scenes, that Beckham, for the theatrics on the sideline that will rub people the wrong way, it was even worse behind the scenes. We haven't heard anything of that reported.

And Gettleman now is saying as much, they had nothing to do with anything else, but we would. wanted to get better. I don't buy into that. I think it is one of the more anti-Giants eras that we've ever seen because it feels to me like organizational confusion. And when you look at ownership, I feel that there are two narratives that have been enduring over the past couple years. One is a public frustration with some of the O'Dell Beckham behavior and antics and sort of a game of chicken where we don't know if we can put up with this or we might or we're going to pay you because either we're going to pay you or you go away, or we're going to try to make this work, and it's not working, and there's continued frustration. And B, was the public relations

disaster that happened with the benching of Eli Manning and the overcorrection that came with it, which I feel, if I had a guess, behind the scenes, part of hiring Gettelman and Pat Shermer, where you're going to deal with Eli Manning for the next year, and you're going to say all the right things. And by the way, you're going to deal with him for a second year. And they have 46 million tied up in Eli Manning over last year in this and it's they've lost O'Dell Beckham ownership I think is one out over Dave Gettleman who is essentially like a Trojan horse and the guy who's getting killed publicly but is having to verbalize what he knows his boss wants well I think what backs that up is every single person who's reported on this has said that that interview last year with ESPN in which

he was asked is Eli Manning a good quarterback and O'Dell Beckham said I don't know which to me showed incredible restraint on his part and maturity because he's the only one in the building building capable of evaluating that quarterback and restraint would be to not answer the question no that is restraint i don't know is a good answer because it's obvious to everyone else watching the games that he's been washed up for three years well it's an answer to you as a football evaluator but as a teammate in the middle of the football season to me that was not the right in the middle of a lost season because it's a lost franchise that did not put a better team on the field and he has to deal with it but the beckham decision is not in a vacuum it's

It's the part that where Gettleman has a credibility issue is he could have traded Landon Collins. Like if they didn't believe Landon Collins was worth a franchise tag, he said, well, we didn't get a trade offer we thought was worth him for him last year. Well, yeah, I mean, but whatever you got might have been better than nothing. We'll see how the compensatory formula works out, whether he gets a compensatory pick or not. But either way, like, you make that trade. You show some foresight. You don't make a trade for Alec Ogletree and give up draft picks. for that. So this isn't like a team that

looks like they're trying to rebuild. I just don't feel like they're letting their true football person run the team. There are mixed desires from ownership to the coaching staff and the front office and what we get. And I think Gettleman in Carolina did a lot of unpopular things, but we always liked

him because he seemed like a straight shooter. A dude that was pulled out of, he was sort of anti-political. And in New York, he's unfurled these unbelievably confusing messages for two seasons now. And they don't mix, they don't match because there's not a clear football person running the show. He is ownership's mouthpiece. I've been a part of it is too that the giants always have this big

thing about tradition, that they kind of never change who they are. I mean, Gettleman is Ernie O'Corsi's, you know, pupil. It's like this is all, like, it's all part of one long giant's lineage. And because of that, I think they, they don't admit mistakes like Eli. Well, Ernie Oursie, I mean, Eli Manning is his showpiece. Like, he's the one who drafted him. He's the one who stood by him. So, of course, Gettleman's going to, you know, the apple doesn't fall forward from the tree. The franchise stability and structure that you speak of is, it has helped that organization run extremely well for decades.

To me, that's what's made the last couple of years so surprising. And a lot of it maybe does, at the end of the day, it does all center around Eli and their inability to kind of cut the cord. And I guess when you win two Super Bowls, the way he did beating who he did, the organization just, it's love. It's a love story between these two sides. and they don't want to break up with each other. The problem is that in football terms,

that second Super Bowl over the Patriots is ancient history. It's ages ago. And all the rest of the league is... Not in that building, though. That's fine, but that's why they're behind. Yeah. And it's like when your general manager is being accused of simply cow to like following the words of Mike Frances on WFAN, it's just total confusion in the Giants organization.

You actually buy that, by the way. I don't buy that at all. I don't buy that at all, but I do buy the fact that Francesa. I do buy the fact that Francesa. and ownership. They are very tight. And I'm not saying that Francesa is doing another thing. Parody. When is Frances's original football opinion? I know Mike Francesa

pretty well through the years as a listener, and he says he's close to a lot of people. I don't know if he's actually close to that. I'm not saying Franceses do anything. It's just, it's muddled, it's more muddled messaging from a team where there isn't one clear voice or plan. All right, let's go to another team here. They're Miami Dolphins. And it is a good kind of study in two teams that are

trying to build toward a future. So we'll hop in the organic fish tank. Miami does not have a quarterback or did not have a quarterback heading into the weekend because Teddy Bridgewater met with the team decided to stay in New Orleans. Ryan Tannahill, the Dolphins decided, hey, you know what, we just want a fresh start. We're turning the page. They trade him to the titoons. So they have to make a move. Ryan Fitzpatrick becomes that move. He signs a two-year, $11 million deal with the Dolphins. Rapsheet reported that Sunday. The team confirmed the signing. He's 36 years old. This is a

this eighth NFL franchise. It's his third team in the AFC East. Pats are the only team he hasn't played for at this point. Wes, your thoughts on this move because Fitzpatrick obviously showed last year in spurts in Tampa that he could absolutely sling it and pile up yards and some points. Is this the right move for a dolphin's team that otherwise seems to be completely tearing it down? Well, if the goal is inorganic tanking, if the priority is

like Thomas Demetrov said years ago, until you find your quarterback, the search for him consumes you. If that's your priority, finding a quarterback in the future to attach your franchise to, this is the right move. Like, Ryan Fitzpatrick can play well in spurs if he has the bucks surrounding talent and play caller that he had last year. With the dolphins, he's not going to have any of that. This is going to be a bad team.

But I don't think, like, Eli, he's not any worse than Eli, Teddy, or Tannett. I mean, maybe a little bit worse than those guys. But to me, it's a recipe to getting a good draft pick. he's a good value at that price. I mean, that's the thing. There's a lot of talk about whether they're tanking and what exactly they're trying to do. Because Ryan Fitzpatrick's going to go try to win.

Ryan Flores, their head coach, is going to try to win. Everyone in the locker room is going to try to win. But I think it's just a process that they are understandably going to take some short-term pain by getting rid of all these contracts that the Mike Tannenbaum regime signed, getting out from under them, stop paying mediocrities like Ryan Tannahill what he is and just get the best value that you can

get as many draft picks as you can and move forward a year from now. And I think the Tannahill trade was instructive that they decided to pay some money to Tannahill part of his contract so that they could get a fourth round pick back. So they've gone, the problem is it's a whiplash from a year ago when they're giving up a draft pick for Robert Quinn. It's a sudden change, but Fitzpatrick is perfect

and they might get better quarterback play. I think the change is also you can match. at two. When they fired Adam Gase, Stephen Ross, the owner said on December 31st, one of the reasons that they parted ways was that Gase wanted to win now. And when we sat with him at the owner's meeting last year, we could feel a disturbance in the force when it came to Gase and discussing the front office and some of their moves. The second thing they did was days later, took Mike Tannenbaum and moved him into a place where he had no decision-making power over the roster. General Manager Chris Greer now oversees everything. And there was reports

that when they talk to coaches and people that were candidates for the job, they basically said up front, this is what you're going to deal with for the next year or two. And they are in a position. They already have $96 million plus in 2020 cap space. And if you move on from Quinn, which they're trying to trade. And when Tana Hill's money for next year dumps off, you're going to be around $125 million in cap-free agent. Your total cap space will lead the league. Well, it's already second for next year as it is. And you can't just assume you're going to go, oh, and though. To Greg's point, you could still go 5 and 11 or 6 and 10 with this roster because they continually do that, but you're in a position to make moves where you're not attached to like,

they only have two players worth more than $10 million next season. They're stripping away their bad decisions. Let's look at it as like a relevancy scale. So at the top of the list you have what the Patriots have done for the past two decades, which can't be replicated. But the goal of every team, I think, should be the Letterman quote about Peyton Manning. He changed the skyline of the city. That's best case scenario for your franchise on a relevancy scale. The worst case is you have no quarterback, you're irrelevant for decades and you're a laughing stock. Somewhere in between there is where most teams fall. The dolphins are flirting with irrelevancy laughing stock, but they're willing to take that one-year penalty for a shot at the skyline. And to me,

that makes a lot more sense. Chase Stewart from football perspective asked it this way, which I thought was interesting. Is it better to have Christian Hackenberg for two years or Ryan Tannahill for seven years? I would take the two-year irrelevancy quarterback role. I would too. If it means at the other end of it, you get your Sam Darnold, you get your Baker Mayfield. You get your answer

earlier. And the problem with, and Dolphins fans will speak to this, the problem with what they've been doing for the past, let's say, two decades. It kind of does fall on that watch post-Marino Patriots Dynasty is they've just kind of lingered in the middle this whole time. They've never really made a hard charge, but they'd never been bad enough where they could acquire big-time top-five draft picks.

So at some point, you've got to reboot the model and try something different. So I respect that. And I also think Fitzpatrick is a perfect signing for the team because it's a tough sell to any fan base. We're going to suck this year. Like, you know if you're a dolphin's soon, you're most likely going to suck. Well, we'll throw you this bone. Here's the guy.

He's probably not going to make us any better. He's not going to give us too many more wins. But it'll be fun. And Brian Fitzpatrick, I have personal experience with this. A lot of teams, the fans do. because he's been on eight teams now. He makes things fun for a little bit, and that's all you really,

if you could throw your fans of that bone and say we're still looking toward the future, I think it's a win-win. There is one other positive for the dolphins, and I think the Browns, like what they went through, help with this because Cleveland's, you know, cadre of beat writers were largely against the analytical approach that Sashi Brown was putting together

because it was new, it was misunderstood, and it came with a lot of losing and ugliness and there was issues with ownership, but already, like most of the writers that are starting to figure out what the dolphins are doing, are fully behind it, a large chunk of the fan base

are behind it all weekend long on Twitter. What Miami's doing is being touted as the fresh new way to do it. We've seen other teams do this. Where in New York, even if New York's trying to get to the same place, the way the Giants have messaged it and the way it's been received by media

is the exact opposite. It's been one clunky PR move after the next. The dolphins have not announced this as a plan, but it is crystal clear what they're doing. And the Giants aren't doing that. I mean, I think the Giants are clear. And on some hand, I can understand what Gettleman is saying when he's saying, this is the NFL, we're building, we're trying to win as we build.

Because I think that that's an okay approach, too. It just doesn't make sense that the way that they're doing. I mean, they just signed Antoine Bethay, who's 38 years old. You know, they're signing Golden Tate. You can try to win while changing on the flight. The dolphins have tried and failed at it. I think it's just a little more clear what Miami is doing. And it's also taking over a group that Tannenbaum ran that just, you know, spent a lot of money and a lot of agents.

It had this whole idea to spend a ton on the defensive line and defense, and it just wasn't working. I do want to just point out the stat also from football perspective, you know, FBG, Cheate. I mean, he's getting a lot of pub. Nice show for him. All right. Last five years, only eight quarterbacks have more passing touchdowns than sacks. It's kind of a sneaky great stat. I like that stat.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Patrick Mahomes, Ben Rothesburg, Andrew Luck. Tony Romo and Ryan Fitzpatrick Ryan Fitzpatrick is a little underrated. What if you throw interceptions in there? Well, I'm just saying. That's not the stat way. We're not discussing that.

Fitzpatrick is a little offensive line proof because he gets rid of the ball so quickly. That leads sometimes to quick decisions that end up with the ball going in the other direction. But one last point I have thought about the Dolphins is they seem to be on the right path. They have the right idea,

but they have a long way to go. And so I don't want to celebrate them too much. And it all starts, like the Browns, none of this is happening if they don't finally get Baker. Mayfield. They took years from them to finally get to the quarterback, and they did. And the dolphins have to get the quarterback.

So everyone is arguing. How are they going to do that? Well, that's the thing. I wouldn't say, like, oh, who do you get a draft pick and find out? Who do you give credit to, Sachi Brown, or it's not, and nothing to John Dorsey? It's like, one person did part of the plan beautifully. And as a Browns fan, I don't care who gets the credit.

But then I don't know if Sashi Brown and his team would have pulled off these correct draft picks and these moves and everything the way that John Dorsey did it. So the Dolphins can get Chris Greer can put everyone in the right position and all this can happen, but you need to draft the right people and get all the sense. Getting draft picks and shedding money is the easiest thing possible. It's pretty easy to do that other than taking kind of the PR hit. You've got to get some fortune along the way. And you got like Chris Ballard did a year ago and you got to recognize fortune,

when it hits you. I mean, he was in that three spot, and he took the Jets who are very happy with that trade for three second round picks. He has one of them this year. He turned into, you know, a defensive rookie of the year and a starter. That second part is the tougher part.

That trade, which was one year ago yesterday, could have franchise altering effects for two teams in a positive direction. That doesn't happen a lot. The Jets got darnled out of it, and the Colts built up roster and got their best to play. And to the point the Jets,

oh, what was the off-season messaging that Jets fans were, you know, Scam for Sam, let's go 1 in 15. This is the worst team in football. And then they didn't lose enough. They had to make the move. They won a couple games at the end. That's the trick.

It's like the dolphins, you know, I've said it to you, Dan, just like, it would it really be that surprising if they came in second in the AFCs? It's so early in the offseason. If Brian Flores is a great coach and you get a little, you get a little mojo on defense. Well, with Fitzmagic in the lineup, honestly, he could steal it. And Fitzmagic and you win seven games and the other two are, you know, I'm just saying like, it's hard. to get the number one tank. Even less than that, it wouldn't be hard to imagine two teams with

the worst record. That alone could keep you from the number one quarterback. Two final thoughts on tanking. Number one, the high cost of irrelevance is that pulling your franchise out of an apathy phase is often beyond your control, as the Brown saw for two decades. You can want to do it? It doesn't mean it's going to happen. Secondly, in every sport, the commissioner is hired to grow the game and protect the owner's interest, and he must be ever vigilant against tanking. It's an issue of public trust just like gambling and the black socks scandal in baseball. You simply cannot have teams in any sport throwing games. Right. You can build your team however you want in the off season, but once the games start, you have to try to win. Yes.

All right. Let's move on and talk about some other news, starting Cincinnati, a team that, I mean, they seem to be in that kind of middle ground where they don't know what they want to be, and it doesn't lead to any real success. And they're making a move on. defense parting ways with one of their most controversial players in franchise history vante's perfect uh tom pell or so tom pellor reported uh that the team released the linebacker on monday uh it ends a seven-year run filled with suspensions and uh dirty play but also he was productive as well so there's a reason he was able to stick around as long as he did um ultimately though uh that cincinnati decides to move on and west probably

Not a coincidence that it's when Marvin Lewis is out the door, too. Marvin Lewis, who has been Yvonne Tess Berwick's biggest champion and some would say enabler over the past seven years. Now, this is a guy who, at his best, was one of the most physically tough punishing off-ball linebackers in the NFL, and along with Gino Atkins, the best defensive player, on some really good Bengals teams over the past seven years. That said, it's not surprising to me that his career is at a crossroads due to concussions with the dirty way in which he played football.

It's interesting to think back on this era. I mean, they might have a future Hall of Famer and A.J. Green, you know, they had some Andy Dalton moment, certainly. But don't you kind of think of it as like the perfect era? I mean, this decade was, he was kind of the defining Cincinnati Bengel. Well said.

I was at the combine where he was there, and it was back in the days when we would actually sit around the college players and do stories on them and stuff. And I was floating around looking for someone interesting to talk to and suddenly Vante's Perfect sat down at one of those little round tables and there weren't that many people around it,

but he started to gather reporters because of just who he was. And I'll never forget that when they asked about his inconsistent play, he would blame coaches. He openly just blamed his coaches for how they put him into the defense. Penalties, he blamed the refs. And, you know, why are you seen this way

as sort of a cantankerous individual? will, he would blame reporters. And there was, Bruce Feldman of CBS Sports came out of that combine saying, I'm not sure any player here sparked a worse reaction than Vante's perfect. I wouldn't touch him. And no one did touch him until Marvin Lewis picked him up as an undrafted asset. That's a good point. Well, as far as what's next for him, even if the cut concussions allow him to play,

he was one of the worst linebackers in the NFL last year, came in out of shape after suspension, and really was a major reason why their defense was terrible after he got back It was his third straight year being suspended to start the season. I mean, that's pretty hard to do. I don't know if it's ever happened in the history of the league. I don't believe he's in line for a suspension to start 2019, but he's going to have to find a team first. In other Bengals news, here's a smart move by the team.

You could say two smart moves. Tyler Iperts back in the building. The oft injured tight end, 28 years old now, signed another one-year deal with the team, the former first round pick back in 2013. When he's on the field, he's been a great red zone target, but he has been as snake bitten by injury as any player in football. He missed the final 12 games of last year with a gruesome ankle injury.

Back in 2015, he had 13 touchdowns in just 14 games. So that's why I joke about it. But I was serious when we were talking about sleepers in the free agency field. He is a good pickup, and any team would be good to. to take a flyer on him on a prove-it deal. And if he stays healthy, he's going to be a top-10 tight end, maybe top five, but I don't know if he could stay healthy. Your Tyler Eiffert joke has gotten no pushback on this podcast

because we all know that- It's not even a joke. Andy Dalton has been a different quarterback when Tyler Eiffert's been healthy. Look at their one loss record in games in which Tyler Eifford has played versus when he's been injured. And it's not quite gronk, but it's pretty close. No, I mean... The problem is he spent 52 games in five seasons.

Right. That's not a big deal, though. In a free agency where Jesse James is getting $9 million for 2019, who would you rather have? Ifer, by far. That's where you dig into these contracts a little bit. It was like two years, $11 million, but nine in the first year you're giving Justin James. Tyler Croft got a big money.

Croft got three years from the bills. I like Eiford better, but who would you rather have over the next three years or two years? Jesse James or 32 games or 31 games or Eifert for eight? No, I think that's... I could find a guy on the street who could. do with Jesse James? I'm just saying you want to bail a ability on some level. You can't find, you know, put some respect on Jesse James' name.

He just changed generations of his family with his ability to catch that pigskin. I don't think it's his ability to catch is getting imping. You know, he also caught that pigskin in that game against the Patriots a few years ago. Dropped it, though. His ability to move other large men is getting impatient. By the way, shout out to Zach Taylor. So he's this guy, 35-year-old. He's the head coach of the Cincinnati Bengals.

I don't think he's been mentioned on this podcast. Former starting quarterback of the Corn Oscars. I just feel like Zach Taylor for a brand new head coach. Hey, wasn't he on home? We see you out there, Zach Taylor, making moves. He looks like Tofer Grace to me. That's all I know about him. Has a head coach ever entered the league quieter than Zach Taylor?

I thought they were still looking for their head coach. Holodi, not his career is over. He announces retirement after 13 seasons. He does it in a very ceciler way. I always thought that Mark, when the time comes to quit, he'll do it in a profound way. from now. One, in a way that, you know, again, it's somewhere desolate and a place where he could

reflect on the journey of his life. Just don't do it during the season. You keep saying months from now. There was one, you had one timetable at some point that, like, put you out around October. Just like let us know before camp, maybe. You know what I mean? I'm going to do it when I need to, just like this guy did. It's like an issue that we're having with our fantasy baseball league.

A couple of guys that ran a team together announced like three weeks before the draft, oh, we're not doing it this year. and then you hang the whole league out to dry because you're scrambling to find somebody to fill the spot. So my leaving this show after seven, eight years of us being together is no more on par than with your fantasy football people. I mean, our baseball team. He's just saying more than three weeks notice.

I mean, our fantasy team went back to 2002, though. Like, we just know each other since 2012 or so. I mean, very telling. But I'm saying don't quit. But if you do quit, do it like Helodinata, who posted a photo from a top Mount Kilimanjaro holding up a big old sign announcing his retirement, one of the cooler ways to step away from the game.

And let us not forget, Mark, that Nata was a great player for the Ravens. Selected in the first round in 2006, five Pro Bowls, two first-team all-pros, two second-team all-pros. And then with the Ravens, you know, won a ring. 2012, happy trails. I will say one thing. I'll let these guys weigh in on him the player, but I was aware of him the minute he got drafted because there were these reports all along in 2006. I was at my parents' house on some like I was not married or anything, didn't even have a girlfriend. Just like one of those things where you fly to your parents' house for vacation because they'll pay for everything. And I'm watching the draft in like the spare bedroom. And Cleveland had the 12 pick in the first round. And you want to talk about all the dark age stuff. Phil Savage was their GM and spent the entire day.

we learned later on, on the phone with Holodinada saying, we are taking you, you're going to be a Cleveland Brown. And he's like, back then, 2006, the Browns hadn't been terrible that long. Let's do it. I'm all on board. Then Phil Savage makes this bizarre first round trade with the Niners.

With the Ravens, excuse me, where he allows Baltimore to hopscotch them from 13 to 12. The Ravens take Holodinada. What happened there? And the Browns take Camerian Wimpley. Helodinata played for 133 awesome. some games and helped them win a Super Bowl. Wimbley, an okay player, was out of Cleveland in four

years. Give me a break. Wasn't Daniel Jeremiah scouting for the Ravens at the time of that trade? He was. Chris Mortensen said he remembers. He might have been with the Browns by then. No, he was saying don't listen to the pre-draft talk that this guy takes plays off. This guy's sensational. And I think that was a big moment for Move the Sticks. Dan, name me... Help me get not a drafted. Name a song with Kilimanjaro in the lyrics. Hmm.

Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue, Chris. Recently covered by a famous 90s band. It's Crosby Stills and Ash have a mention of one of theirs? Toto. Africa. Oh, Toto. Yes, there it is. Well done.

Chris. As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti. Well done. One of the great videos. Go watch that video. I mean, one of the great halftime performances in my life is seeing Rivers Cuomo deliver toto at halftime of a Santa Monica community college football game.

True story. Steve Smithsold. He made it sing. What's Rivers doing there? He went there and he was trying to raise money for him. Nice. Kent just got in my ear and he said, well, I'm going to, before you jump in, Kent, I'm going to put it to a vote.

SBC. Kent got in my ear and said he has a toto fact. All right, there's three people voting. I will abstain yes or no. Give me a simple yes or no, Mark. Do you want the Toto fact from Kent? Concise one. I want the total total.

Oh, I thought it would be really funny if we just said no. No should be the answer. Then we move on. You know, the audience laughs. I get the feeling, Greg, if I would have started with you, that would have swung the vote the other way, but it didn't go that way. So what is the fact, Kent?

The lead singer of Toto is the son of movie composer John Williams. Did you guys know that? No, I did not know. I didn't know that. John Williams is the Star Wars guy. Yeah, among other things. Jaws. Indiana Jones, Jaws, pretty much all Spielberg.

Yeah, his son. He's a good nugget. He needed a little more. That is a good nugget. Yeah, exactly. Max Unger is done. Nice transition. He's out.

The center said, my body hurts. My entire lower half is killing me, so I can't play professional football anymore. He's turned to 33 this year. He missed one year in four games with the Saints. came over from the Seahawks and a trade, but Unger is done. The Jimmy Graham trade. That's right. It was a major name in that deal, but his career is over at age 33.

He was so frank about it, saying goodbye, not just his body, just thought. He basically was saying he thought he was past his prime, that he wasn't nearly as good as he used to be. Some of the PFF numbers support that, but he did make the Pro Bowl still, and I guess the Pro Bowl doesn't mean too much. He made that Jimmy Graham trade look a lot better than it probably should have, I think. Drew Breese's inability to throw deep from December on last season

wasn't the only issue with that offense. The interior of the offensive line really shut down. I'm always impressed by someone who grew up in Hawaii and just like has a great career on the mainland, and then he said he's going back to Hawaii. That's what you've got to do. That's the move. I mean, he's earned it.

You always go back. to Hawaii. If you start in Hawaii, you should have to leave. I understand why you leave, though, because you want to see what else is out there. You got to prove yourself. As Shaq says on the big blue marble, I get that. But then when it's time to bring it back down,

when you're getting closer to the soil once more, come back home. Well, if you read Joseph Campbell, the greatest part of the hero's journey is after you're proving yourself, you get to come back a different person. See, that part sounds good. The saints were very surprised by this, by the way. Well, they sound

signed his apparent successor. Right, to a ton of money, a guy who has struggled, Nick Easton. This entire offseason has been a reminder. If you don't have a good offensive line coach or a GM and coaching staff that can build an offensive line, you are going to pay for it two times over. You're going to pay when they stink the first time around and then you're going to overpay for these guys in free agency. It's going to bang it twice.

It sounds like my household finances. I thought you were saying it sounded like your weekend there. No. It definitely did not sound like that. I would love to hear about that. What they say about Hawaii, Mark, that you always come home. Do they say that about Connecticut? I have been priced out of Connecticut. No.

I was, like, flushed out of there the minute that I was essentially not, you know, living in my... I mean, it's not any cheaper here. No, but that was at a period in time when I was 20-something, you know, doing three-day-a-week temp jobs, you know, dying. Tom Telesco can afford to live in Connecticut. He signs another extension with the Chargers to remain their general... manager. He's 46 years old. Hold on. By the way, your brother, his dangerousness. Kevin Dangerhansis.

Had some interesting Instagram stories about the St. Patrick's Day activities in Pearl River. Danger? I'm just going to give you one takeaway. Yes. It looks like an ultra beautiful town. It looked absolutely beautiful to me. We do good work with the property.

I didn't see. He somehow did not capture on film the entrance to the coal mine. I only saw sort of gleaming streets. Well, where did you see it on the parade? route. Well, it was this beautiful almost like downtown Dallas JFK curve in the

curve in the streets there. It's for rich it's for rich whites. That's certainly not true but that wouldn't be a horrible thing either Greg. At the bottom of the hill, that's the entrance. I think that might be what I, you know, it was just beautiful. And what happens where they put the mind. And what happens is, and it is, it looked

like everybody was having a great time. It didn't look like it were. It's one of the more Irish towns in the entire state of New York. And everyone has a great parade to celebrate their heritage and then when they get to the bottom of the hill west they put down the irish sweaters and their Guinness and they pick up a hard hat i think it's always a better idea to put the mine at the bottom of the hill than the top of the hill that's lower down you know i get closer to i don't know why he didn't capture like the entire payoff on his story i didn't

see any evidence of you know how those things are i know no you must have been swept up in yeah you got a high that's congratulations tom telesco he's done a nice job well well 48 and 48 in his tenure, but they are, they're treading in the right direction. Well, he's shown the ability to build great rosters. And even before, when they were losing games to injuries in special teams play and kickers who couldn't convert, we knew all along that this team had a good roster. He hits on most first round picks. He found Keenan Allen in the third, not found him, but he's the one that you decided we're

taking this guy, Denzel Perriman in the later rounds, Hunter Henry, Derwin James, Joey Bosa, Melvin Gordon. I mean, that's, you know, a number of Gians. GMs just whiff on all this stuff. Dominique Rogers Carmardi signs with the Redskins. He was retired, as you recall. Just five months ago, he decided to walk away from the game. But changes his mind.

So with the Redskins, he reunites with Landon Collins, his former big blue teammate, who just signed a six-year deal, of course, with Washington. DRC turns 33 next month. So we'll see what he has left in the tank. But Washington decided this is a move. worth making, Greg. I mean, it's good to see DRC back.

I remember when he threatened to retire five years ago, but I think Wes had heard some report about this story, which blew my mind. What was that? My guys, the sports junkies out of Washington, D.C. I've been listening to these guys. Shoot, I used to pull them down at midnight from Westwood One radio in the days right after I quit the post office and started at a law firm.

This is going back 20, 25 years. They've been on this scene for that long, and they don't usually report, like, news, hard news. Where you go with this? They said this morning, reliably informed that Bruce Allen is making all decisions for the Washington Redskins without consulting Jay Gruden in the least. So Jay Gruden is in the dark on all of these moves, the head coach.

And they pretty much said they're never going to admit to this because it's not the way any NFL team wants it to be known that they're running a franchise. But as soon as Jay Gruden is fired, which will probably be after the next season or during the next season, they fully expect Jay Gruden to come out and say hey I wasn't consulted on anything this is all Bruce Allen's doing and I think it goes to show that like Bruce Allen is so insulated

I don't think the Redskins realize how they're viewed outside of that of team headquartered. They talked about Gruden with the Landon Collins signing that would be your big off-season move he just found out about it the way that we did through the media. It's totally wild.

That is next level dysfunction if true. So Bruce Allen has been around. He's an interesting character. I mean, he's the son of one of the most legendary football coaches in NFL history. Right. Built the Buccaneers with John Gruden. You know, started with the Raiders, was an executive there. And he reminds me of like the rest of the world kind of operates this way.

He seems really good at just amassing power and controlling power and having control of the business that he's running. And this is a country where that's rewarded quite heavily. I mean, that's how it's pretty much, that's supposed to be a great thing. Like, he's essentially, you know, hitting home runs by making Bruce Allen a top-level executive for the longest time with very little track record that any of it is working or doing well. But he seems uniquely excellent in Oakland, Tampa, and here at amassing power, getting rid of enemies, and just, I don't know, survive. He's been around forever.

I once sat next to him on an airplane en route to an NFL event, and I want to tell you that I could feel that, like, energy and that power oozing off him, but that was the opposite of what I felt. Yeah, it seems like a nice guy when he talks and stuff. I don't know about you guys, but I've worked most of my adult life to separate myself from people who want to amass power and think only of themselves. Right, but power for power's sake, which is funny because, like, in the rest of, like, the world, or at least in this country, it's like, that's almost like applauded.

Like, oh, yeah. Well, he's a, he's a great success. But in sports, you don't really get applauded for that. You also have to be good at what you do, too. Right. But I'm saying, like, how many executives... I'm not sure he's that. Right, but how many...

That's kind of my point is, like, executives all over this country making, you know, tens of millions of... Many of them aren't good at their job either. They're just good at amassing power. But we're not writing... We're not, like, focusing... You don't have a fan base around the CEO of, you know, Winstead and Johnson. They just are collecting pages. I'm a huge Winstead and Johnson.

I don't know what... Who does what that is. W&A. They're doing great stuff. Their rebuild is going very well. Very corrupt. Very corrupt. Dig into it. A few more moves. Let's hit him quickly. Bryce Callahan, the slot corner for the Broncos.

Signed a three-year deal worth $21 million with the Broncos. Missed the end of last year with a foot injury, but slots into secondary that looks like it could be better on paper. Chris Harris, Cream Jackson's in town, and Bryce Callahan. Well, I thought he was the best slot receiver in the NFL last year until he went down with that foot injury. And part of that, of course, is because they got so much consistent pressure up front, and he was playing with two great safeties behind him. So that makes his job easier. But it's also reuniting him with Vic Fongio, who was running that time.

The Eagles and Ronald Darby agreed to a one-year contract. Rap sheet reported this one. ESPN first had it. He suffered a torn ACL this past November, so he's in the recovery phase. But the Eagles and Darby stay in business. We'll see if he can help the team. that's not too far long ago now, ACL turn in November, that will set him back in his offseason planning.

Both these last two contracts made it on my best contracts list. Wes's favorite piece of content that I've produced. Not Kareem Jackson, though. No, I like these short-term deals, though. I think that's basically the future. Like, the smartest teams are doing essentially these cheap one-year deals, and they're not afraid of the unknown. Like, they're not afraid of going into each off-season

just having to figure things out with these one-year deals. your contracts. Is he going to be ready for week one? That's, like I said, November. We'll see. Iffy. Ifie. TBD.

Good ball player, though. Finally, the Raiders finally part ways with Donald Penn. I feel like this has been years in the making. The veteran tackle who has been with the Raiders for five years moves on. They cut ties and at an age now where his career could keep going. but I believe he's 34, it could be a situation where he's got to kind of catch on wherever he can. Donald Penn, does he bring value to the team?

Does he have anywhere? Would he be on the top 101? How about that? I believe he's 36 years old. The Texans are showing interest, reportedly. The word out of Oakland is that he became more trouble than he was worth as his skills started to decline. Locker room lawyer?

Like the Colton Miller, like draft. Dick did not help. Give me a locker room lawyer. He was always trying to get paid regardless of how well he played was sort of the way I heard. Because he's great when he's on NFL Network. He strikes me as one of those, like the coaches don't like it when the players are smarter. I mean, it seems like he might be one of the smartest people in the room in any room. And the Gruden era began with Donald Penn as this big Gruden guy who knew him from the ages ago.

And they were pals. They were real tight. They both loved it. And then look where it ends. He spent some time at Tony P's in Marina del Rey, one of my old hangouts. Donald Penn known to frequent that Big man Huge man

Met about the Odors meetings last year Market that a sware they threw on Monday evening Do you remember that party last year? I do remember that It was a meeting a giant of a man That's all I recall

I mean I can't say anything else He is large Drafted by John Gruden and Bruce Allen It all It all comes back All right coming up this week So yes this is a Monday show

Hope you enjoyed it We'll have another show on Wednesday. Friday, we won't have a show because we'll be traveling. We'll be traveling off to Phoenix, Arizona, lovely Phoenix, to meet with multiple owners, no, excuse me, neither players nor owners, but coaches and some GMs maybe. A lot of it, in fact, so we'll get to talk it up, chop it up, hopefully get some info on where their teams are headed. That's going to be fun. Those were fun shows last year. It was the first time we did it.

They're bringing us back. Seems like a good sign. Got some good content meeting these coaches. We're still finding out, by the way. We have not been told this is the one event where you have an opportunity to stay in the same hotel as the owner. So you can only imagine it's a nice hotel. Well, I heard today from a shadow league figure, they have not decided if we will be staying in the luxury hotel. I was told the same.

It did not sound. We could be in the days in the airport. No, it would be, it'll be just like a little one-star down about an Uber right away. Right, because the Orlando setup, we actually didn't stay in the same hotel as them. They were just connected, so it all sort of worked that way. Borrowing from Kent's approach here, I have a factoid about Days Inn. Should we vote on it? Do I get to vote?

No. Chris, let's hear. I mean, I've already pissed off West enough with this contracts article. I don't want to go. Oh, I knew that was going to stick with Greg. Days in. I missed a large chunk of that conversation. Days in started on Tybee Island.

Georgia. Oh, wow. That's pretty good. That is a great one. It's better than Ken's. It's great. Sorry, Kit. Ken's that fucking suck.

I don't know. John Williams' son being the lead singer of Toto, that's a pretty good fact. I mean, yeah. I mean, I agree to disagree. If you're like a huge John Williams fan, but it's 2019. You know, Greg, you're always, you know, denigrating anything from the past. You just said it was a terrible. But I wasn't going after John Williams' career.

The man is a titan in his industry. He's great. He's great. Yeah, he is. He's a legend. He's timeless. He's still working. I'm all the way back, Kent.

Great tidbit. Would I watch like a documentary about him now? Shout out to Rosanna Arquette, who inspired two 1980s hits because lead singers were. Rosen. Go on after her. Rosal. What's the other one? I think it's from REO Speedwagon.

I'm not sure which one. All right. Definitely one on your. Wait, so there was more sniping between West and. Greg, after I left. No, no, I just, I, it was one of those things where, this was earlier today. Well, Wes made a, a, one of his more convincing arguments to not go with a different type of segment today. And Greg was very, I thought, amiable about the whole thing.

And then it comes up here in the show an hour later. Well, I couldn't agree more with Wes. That's why I can joke about it now. I thought you did with friends. That's what you do with friends. I thought you were insinuating that something else happened after I left the room. No. I am insinuating that it just stuck in, it's somehow stuck in Greta.

It was a little hot and heavy for a Monday morning. It's not often that I really fight for or against. I appreciate it. I wasn't that into the segment either, which I, you know, indicated multiple times. So you were not, like, pushing that on us, Greg, either, but it did come up two or three times during the show about Wes's reaction. That's a bit of an indication that's sticking with you a little bit. Yeah.

That's what friends do. Then you have a little fun with him. I am. Greg taught us about friendship today. That was good. All right. So that's it. We're excited to go back close to the,

owner's hotel. Hopefully we get security clearance before the big weekend. I was told that the staff that we're going with are being deprioritized versus us. It's not a package deal. They're going to try to get the four of us in the in the A hotel, even if it means people that we know and don't want to mention on the show who are sort of coming along as the caravan, going to the second hotel. If Bricky Hollywood ever shows up again in this country. She may be B hotel. Is she B hotel or A hotel? I'm just hearing, I'm hearing whispers that she may not

be part of a hotel. It'd be pretty funny. The A hotel scenario. That'd be pretty funny. That's not going to go over well. All right. That's it. Kent, you've done great work for us for four episodes, and we just want to personally on the show take a moment to say thank you. Yeah. Thanks, Kent. Thank you for having. Seriously, great job not taking a vacation during the busiest time of the year. Way to be, Ken. All right. Good fact to it. That's it. That's it. Dan Hansa signing off for The Quiet Storm, the mailman, the old boss.

Kent Brown behind the class. It's Brown time. It's a cat's moment. Till Wednesday. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends,

and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season?

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