NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Tom Brady Retires; Brian Flores Lawsuit

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal recap all the latest news in the NFL including Tom Brady retiring, the latest with Brian Flores , and the personnel carousel. Josh McDaniels is hired by the Raiders, the Jags still don't have a head coach and there is some Harbaugh saucy news attached to the Vikings. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. People say, what do you want to do after football? And I'm like, what do you mean after football? There's nothing after football. This is what, you know, I was born to do, and this is what I enjoyed doing more than anything else. Let's go!

Let's go! No, baby! Goes to the end-ro? Oh, now! Tom Brady's first NFL touchdowns out. Tom Brady probably is. Never tried to engineer a drive more improbable than this. Steps up, throws down the middle, catch made by Austin Cully.

Clock! Fuck! Russell, Wilson, extends the hands he has. Wilson, quick throw. Let's go! Interceptive! Interceptive! Interceptive to the mother mother!

Toss the white! He's in. Patriots win the Super Bowl. Brady has his fifth. What a comeback. Tom Brady is a Super Bowl champion again for the record-setting seventh time. The greatest player who ever lived has now retired. The Bucks needed quarterback, and Tom Brady walks into the Hall of Fame, probably unanimous. Probably, definitely unanimously.

Tom Brady has a. ended the greatest career in the history of the NFL. That's coming from a Jets fan. 22 years, a run of dominance, both statistically and as a team competitor, a guy who went to 10 Super Bowls, won seven of them. And boys, as we begin, a very special edition of the Around the NFL podcast, Dan hands us with Mark Sessler and Greg Rosenthal. Greg, I think this stat kind of sums things up.

You can't sum everything up with Tom Brady's career, which ended today with an official Instagram announcement with just one note. But this kind of gives you an idea. When Brady won his first Super Bowl in his second NFL season, that was way back in the 2001 season with the Patriots, he was the youngest starting quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl. When Tom Brady won his last Super Bowl in his second to last season with the Bucks, he was the oldest starting quarterback. quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl at 43. He never, the gradual decline, Greg? No, he never declined. Thank you for that motivation that you gave him over the last six years. There you go. He never declined. And I think there's so many things to look back on, but the fact that he never got

old like the rest of us and every one of his peers, that's what stands out to me. Right. The last two years, I think, in Tampa are going to be remembered so much. Because not only did it kind of spike the football on any debate over who's the greatest ever, if it wasn't decided anymore, it was setting boundaries that no one's even thought about. Because his last season in New England, when they struggled down the stretch, when they lost in the first round of the playoffs, was easily the greatest season by a 42-year-old quarterback in the history of the sport. Like nothing had ever even been close. No one had ever played an entire season as a 42-year-old in the history of the sport. And that was him actually looking like he was proven, you're right, Dan, a gradual decline. And then to go to Tampa and to have back-to-back seasons where you won the MVP,

or rather the Super Bowl MVP, where in the last eight or nine games of the season, he was clearly the best quarterback in the league. And this year, he would have gotten my vote for MVP. Reasonable minds can disagree, but certainly one of the best two or three players. Not too late. In the entire NFL, I know if Tom Brady had been thinking. He would have announced this leading into week 18, and then I think he definitely wins the award over in Rogers, but unfortunately the votes are in.

The longevity is part of it, but it's longevity with excellence, because he was better post-age 36, I think, than he was before, which is just hard to fathom. I mean, I'd argue that at age 43, you know, last season, that he had more signature moments than 90% of all quarterbacks, you know, shoved together. I mean, the ones that fail in all of them, the good ones. I mean, we, prior to Matthew Stafford coming to the Rams, I remember thinking, like, I can't come up with five signature Matthew Stafford moments. Yet he's a very good quarterback.

But Brady just unfurled them and off of them nonstop. And, I mean, this is a guy that, like, essentially, I didn't matter if it was week four in 2006 or the Super Bowl, the height of the game. I mean, like, each individual contest was Brady's sort of, like, Russian novel of intense focus, passion. He was wedded to the moment. And I think if you listen to it, it is instructed to me not just what we think and journales think and podcasters, but his own teammates. And I think they lived essentially, you know, in the sunlight of his presence. I mean, they loved being his teammate.

And, you know, I don't, I loved watching Tom Brady. And I, for all of us and for so many people, he encapsulated the. obviously an incredible span of time, but for me, when it started as the biggest height of my fandom, where I never had any thought back then that I would work in football. I just loved watching it. It absorbed my Sundays. And to go through the iterations of his career and to come and do what we've done and follow it along, the fact that he's still here doing what he's doing, we're never going to see anything like it. And I utterly laugh at these, anyone's still bringing up anyone else at quarterback level that's anything better than Tom Brady. He is,

heads and tails above anyone else and he's better than Michael Jordan. He's better than anyone. He's set the standard. No, no, no. I'm not whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. He is absolutely, he is, football is different than these other sports. He is the standard. There is nothing else for me. Well, that becomes bad if you think football is a better sport than the other story. I think we don't need to have a Jordan. Longivity, it's tough. Right. The longevity and what he was able to do, I think that's part of the story. And I think like when, when the, The Peyton Manning retired after winning Super Bowl 50. There was a conversation still.

Like, who is the greatest of this era, maybe of all time? And then Brady went on to play six more years. It was like those six years were Hall of Fame level years. Here's a little bit from Tom Brady and his Instagram message after, you know, it's almost started to become a little bit absurd, the Saturday reporting by ESPN, and then it was hanging out there. If this would have carried on too much longer, it would have started to feel weird. So I'm happy that if Brady really was walking away, it didn't drag out too much longer.

Here is the official statement or a part of it from Brady. This is difficult for me to write, but here it goes. I am not going to make that competitive commitment anymore. I have loved my NFL career. And now it is time to focus my time and energy on other things that require my attention. One of the things, Greg, also about Brady's incredible career was that for so much of it, he was public enemy number one because of his success because he had so many things in his favors his his um the team he was on he was on the individual accolades he was a good looking guy he

had the model wife uh he was the most famous athlete in the country so when when he failed even when the team failed or when brady failed or there was scandal like the spy gate scandal uh or deflate gate or 18 and 1 or you know pick the Super Bowl loss there was always this general idea of like whoever was on the right side against Brady and had the victory like it made it even more special like I could say as a Jets fan like my number one win ever was the divisional playoffs up in Foxborough in 2010 like going into there and beating Brady for me as a Jets fan and many others like me that was number one because of Brady and to be that sort of measuring stick and a team sport like football is what's unprecedented.

And that's part of why I started talking about the Bucks thing, because it did help separate Brady from just what they accomplished in New England. But you mentioned that debate, like the Manning Brady debate. I do want to kind of go back to 2013 that Super Bowl. It was the Seahawks Broncos. And the front cover of NFL.com this morning, that morning was Willa win in this game by Peyton Manning. and they were favored, which is hard to remember because they lost by 35, will this win cement Peyton Manning as the greatest ever? And I don't think that was a hot take at that point.

It was kind of like this would put him over the top of Tom Brady at that time. It wasn't that long ago. And so the way that Tom Brady became the greatest ever was actually during our era, was during the around the NFL era. We saw many of those games. He's the greatest because of that era. Since then, you know, they won four titles, or he won four titles. The Patriots had three of them. He got the MVP.

He was really a top three quarterback almost every one of those seasons, except for that ending one on the Patriots. And now we're at the point where Eli Manning is sending out tweets and saying, like, you are the greatest to ever do it. Even Peyton Manning's brother isn't even considering the fact that he could be competitive with Tom Brady. And, like, I think about that comeback against the Hawks as against the Seahawks as the single most important game of his career personally because it ended the 10 years that they didn't have. It was against the number one defense of that year, the defining defense of that year. At the time, it was the greatest fourth quarter comeback in the history of the Super Bowl.

And Malcolm Butler helped him along the way, but it really did just change things of where he went because he changed as a quarterback really around 0607. That's when his peak started. He was waylaid for two years by the ACL, wasn't quite the same by 09. From 10 on, he was just like full Tom Brady the rest of the way. And the win started stacking up. And even the years that they didn't win, the Super Bowl included that Eagles game, where he probably had his best Super Bowl performance. The 2015 AFC Championship against the Broncos,

which to me is one of the most memorable games he ever had with Gronk against that Broncos team. And they had no offensive line, no running game. And he still almost got them there. That's the thing is like he has as many memorable losses as any quarterback in the history of the NFL, which is wild too. I mean, to your point, like since turning 40, he's 70 and 24 with 191 touchdowns. I think any debate with Peyton Manning, which was juicy for a solid era, had vanished a long time ago. We never saw them suck. That's kind of what I love is that, you know, we just came off the whole Big Ben experience where it,

visually and psychologically tarnished what we think about, what I thought about Big Ben. Just the end. The end is so wrong. And like the 2010 Brett Favre season is still this like, stink trap at the end of what was. You win the Super Bowl, but he was a show. Yeah, it was. I mean, despite him almost they won it. Right. That's not the way you want to go out. But Tom Brady like easily could have played next season. I easily. If he was an MVP, he should. I would, I'm with you, Greg. I'd vote for him for MVP this year. So it's, it's hard to leave football as a quarterback but as anyone in a graceful way almost everyone wants to go one or two years too far where you look vulnerable you don't look yourself and our memories of you change our

impression of you changes he somehow goes out um almost in jim brown fashion but not after you know less than a decade an incredibly incredibly long career that like no one's ever going to touch this this will never happen again i we've seen something that will never happen again he provided a roadmap, you could say for other quarterbacks to attempt it, whether it's how he takes care of his body or who he surrounds himself with. But it does feel like it is like a once in a generation, once in a century type situation that he could go out this way. He led the league in yardage and touchdowns. There's no other quarterback like it. I have to do this article ranking of Super Bowl era quarterbacks every year. And I tried, I went through like the top 20

and tried to look for something similar and there wasn't really. Montana actually was somewhat close. but not. But even he was definitely not the same guy in Kansas City as he was in San Francisco. Montana got replaced and couldn't stay healthy. But there's no comparison. But the fact that Brady's career ended in Tampa in a very disappointing way, obviously, you're defending a title. But he did lead them on a 27-3 comeback.

They got that game tied. His last touchdown pass was a bomb down the right sideline. You never questioned Tom Brady's arm strength as he edged into his mid-40s, beating Jalen Ramsey for a touchdown. You did. West did, too. I remember this. I didn't like it.

I didn't like it back in 2019, you know? Well, all right. Okay. Calm down. Take it easy. But I'm saying once he had the sustained secondary peak, you never questioned anything about his physical tools. In fact, what made him a marvel also was, yeah, how he, it seemed like he was moving

better. He wasn't faster necessarily, but he had mastered this, the intellectual element of the game and still had the physical skills. So he almost, you know, if he would have went out on a back-to-back title in Tampa, I guess that's the ultimate storybook ending. But this isn't a bad consolation prize. Can I offer one gripe? And that has nothing to do with Tom Brady at all.

It is the way this whole thing played out. And you mentioned it, Dan. It, to me, is deflating. And it's like Christopher Hitchin said that news by definition is what you don't know already and what you might not like when you get it. I really am a little, I know this is like they're all part of our business. breaking news culture that we have where this thing, if there was ever a player to like not go, you know, skirt around the idea of honoring how Tom Brady would leave the game, but to have

this thing break the day it did, takes the air out of the balloon and probably disrupted the way that completely disrupted the way Brady would have wanted to do it and forced him to do it today because you're right. It's like lingering. It's weird. We've got to get an efficient statement. It's one example of like, can we chill? Can we ever chill and like let someone go out on the This is one guy that deserved to go do it his own way. And instead, it's like, I've got to get my news flash out there. Super tedious. I'm not too precious about that.

I just feel like. I know you're not. I know. I just mean that it's, I just found it annoying. It's like they pulled the rug out from her. Just because it's news ultimately. And it's like, it's just, you know, if he wants to announce it, then he, he could announce it when he knew for sure.

And otherwise, it's just like any other story. To me, it doesn't take anything away. Like Saturday, you got a. great day of it and everyone's talking and today's getting a great day of it and we're going to be talking about him for the rest of our lives. I think it's, I would imagine it's seriously annoyed Tom Brady. I think he said it. He was out of the country. He was out of the country on Saturday. You're trying to enjoy some peace and quiet and it blew up. So I think absolutely it would qualify, let's call it a bummer the way it's set up for him. But I think a year from now,

certainly five years from now when he goes into the Hall of Fame, we're not going to be thinking back to the Schefter situation. But I see your greater point. Poor Darlington keeps getting left out Every time I hear people talk about this, you know, because whenever you do this, like, I have it, but so does, you know, Guy B. I don't care. My guess was Darlington probably had it more because he really developed that relationship. He didn't get the lead billing. So take it up with ESPN, great. Yeah.

He, I do appreciate that Tom knew we were taping today. He let our podcast be better by doing it this morning. And he also really thumbed his nose at Jim Gray because he taped an addition of the Let's Go podcast. on Monday evening. And in that podcast, he said he hadn't made his decision about retiring. I mean, it's a tough spot for the Let's Go podcast. Let's be real. Imagine if one of us announced something important about our careers or our lives on our

Instagram, like immediately after we taped a podcast. Let's go off the air. I mean, because now Tom Brady is not a huge podcast. Yeah. And by the way, if you're going to listen to that podcast going forward, it's going to be like Tom Hawking is health supplements. So enjoy the content. there. Yeah, it does, I think we kind of have this one nailed, though, the fact that the podcast had no real presence until last week and doesn't even get that. But on the subject, Ricky, I want to bring Ricky Hollywood in here. She is a lifelong Patriots fan. And Erica, that the Tom Brady goodbye message was 700 words. The image was Tom in a buck's uniform. And over those 700 words, he never.

Dan. That picture was him at Gillette. That is such an F you. Are you kidding? He never mentioned Bill Belichick. He never mentioned the Patriots or Robert Krep. And he never mentioned you, the fan. Take me through it. Well, okay. First of all, my friends, my group chat back home going crazy. Very upset. Very, very, very upset. And I agree with them. It's hard to see this. Yes, we got our thank you. a few years ago and and did he say specifically retire in that post no so he is stepping away so he's thanking the buck's organization for him to put that picture of it my voice is like this because i've been crying all morning no i was screaming about the bengals but um i i was actually like okay this is like whatever thank you tom for like the best memories like i am honored to like that he is why i love sports like tom brady has been you know that fails safe forever, but it's like to throw the photo of him in the Bucks uniform at Gillette, like that is, that is petty, bro.

Like, come on. And now, now the counterpoint from Greg where he tells you it doesn't matter. Go ahead. He also sent, he did send out after he must have heard the feedback. Wait, but you understand, right, let's just, let's just break this down because let's not leave anything that, you know, out, out in the open and with any type of like, a lack of awareness of how this played out. He writes the 700 words. He pours over every word and goes over it with all his people, or maybe he just reads it a hundred times and runs it past his dad. He sends it out

purposely keeping New England and everything that element of his life out of it, which it seems impossible to do for a guy that played 20 years then. And then when that becomes like, and this is why I think it was ultimately not the right move for there are multiple reasons. But like, that's going to be what people take out of it. And that's the story that started going viral this morning, which leads him to send out the two-line tweet, which, by the way, bro, the, you know, the toothpaste is out of the tube. I just wonder, and this is all more just, Greg, just kind of fun to speculate on all this stuff. But there has to be something more to some of the relationship dynamics that that he chose to do that. I hope they work it out in time because

you want him coming to Foxborough for different events and you want him part of it. But that really struck me as odd. I was going through because you have to scroll through the messages. You scroll through the statement through the Instagram post and I'm waiting for the New England part and it just never came. I think it is instructive that he sent like a four page thing when he left New England like extolling the virtues of Bill Belichick and extolling all the people there and thanking them and Robert Kraft. Like he did that. Like you can go look at those. Oh, carry that water, Rosenthor. No, I just, come on. I just, I just, he's retiring now. He's he's talking about everything he'd done in his career and he doesn't mention the place where he won six

titles and went to nine Super Bowls. I guess I'm wired differently because yeah you think it seems crazy to me that like sports that the fans would be so self-involved and like unappreciative that they'll Greg Greg Greg you are out of control like I'm not even in New England and I'm not like some of my crazy friends but like they I think the Boston sports fans are the worst sports fans in the world because of that like because it like they make it sort of about themselves any any fan base in the country would have been personally hurt by that of course it doesn't matter you could put it on boston if you want if we were eagles fans we'd be chucking batteries at people because it's like what you're going to call us the worst like it's it's different than an actor um you know finally

after many years winning like an academy award and thanking his second wife but ignoring his first wife who he divorced like this is where his career was built um i i do think think that to Dan's point, like, that was a meticulously thought out message. And so he meticulously thought out leaving New England, not in it. Um, oh, he did. He was in New England in the freaking photo. Well, okay, but don't you think that like everyone's intentional? Everyone, everyone attached to putting that message out knew that like every talking head's going to go crazy over the fact that the Patriots weren't in it. So, well, you know what's going to happen. I guess I hadn't thought about it that much. But maybe that, I mean, that's like what's helped.

Make Tom Brady, you know, Tom Brady, you know, like, I guess I'm at the point where, like, that's, that's what made him great. And I, but I also just don't think like this one statement, it's when everyone is paying attention rightfully. And sure, it deserves some attention. He is, the way he has spoken about Belichick this season, the fact that they spent 25 minutes in the locker room just the two of them after that week four game and the way that they spoke about each other after that and throughout the last. two seasons to me like that means just as much or like it that like you know what i mean like doesn't you're saying that it was an oversight i don't not an oversight but just it you can you can take it all in and like i take all the those words that he said throughout the last two seasons the previous statements and i take the fact that that he left him out here maybe because he's a competitor you're right like

and and that's all part of like the package who gave patriots fans including myself like the greatest joy of like a sports fan that you would ever have. So it just seems it just seems weird on the day that you're celebrating him personally to worry too much about that. Like all that sort of past. I mean, I totally get that. And I think a lot of people, you know, on Reddit and Twitter are going like, oh, Eric is a sad Pat's fan just crying about it. It's like this guy gave us 20 of the best years that we will ever have. And everybody in the league is lucky to see that. And he has been on my favorite team besides Jets fans and other fans that have lost. But, but, but listen. and we are lucky to have witnessed this type of of greatness.

So am I thankful is Boston so thankful and appreciative? Yes, there is no argument about that whatsoever. People were rooting for him as a buck because they love Tom Brady so much. But yes, was this a snub and was this intentional? My point is he was gone two years ago and we're going to have the rest of our lives for him to say nice things. He'll have a Hall of Fame speech and all this stuff. There's no way around it. There's no other way.

But that also I don't want to say that that's where we should be like dwelling. on this conversation. I just thought it was an interesting. We spent about 10 minutes on it. Well, I think you played a role in that, Greg. I think that the bigger picture still, obviously, I mean, I just want to read another thing. He's one of those guys where the numbers just blow you away. He finished with a 243 and 73 regular season record, 35 and 12 in the playoffs, won three MVP awards selected to the Pro Bowl 15 times, of course, the 199 pick in 2000. I'll say one more thing. And you're right, Greg, they hold the voting at the end of the regular season. But we can get a little, we can get a little tricky on this one, especially considering who's

going to end up winning the award. We can we can make some moves here. I wouldn't be against it. I just want to hear what Mark is so mad about. He's been very angry to not get in the last five minutes or so. What not? Keep going. I'm listening. Keep going. I'm hearing what Dan says. I would like to see if Aaron Rogers wins this MVP, I will be extremely annoyed. He is not the MVP on any level. I would, I'm with Dan. I don't know how you do this. Get ready.

You rejigger the vote. I know he is because the AP. Re-open the books. I give it to Tom Brady. Open, blow up the books, write a new book and let's just get this right. And everyone can go go to the bar and giggle about what they just did. And we won't know how it happened. Um, I, my last thought on this.

And then you guys, please, uh, also if you have something else to share, because we do have to move on. There's a lot of other NFL news as well. as we look ahead to the personnel carousel and, of course, Super Bowl 56. But I think he's in this category. I think he's in the Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady category. I think he is in that like all-time holy sector of American athletes just because of all he accomplished and how he did it differently than anyone else.

And I think unique is the word to me that best describes his career because there was no decline. There was, when it looked like there might have been one, he said, no, I'm going to change and flip the script. And there was part of a savviness to Brady as well. Maybe he would have stayed in a bit of a sustained decline if he was with the Patriots when they were kind of retooling in a tough spot. But knowing when to maybe say, let me jump here to Tampa Bay and revitalize things, I think that was a brilliant bit of personal maneuvering as well. So he annoyed me. He killed me. He destroyed me for years and years and years.

But I really do think, like Mark, you and I have worked at the company since 2010. Greg, you've been with us since 2013. You covered and went to Super Bowl. 2012, March, 10 years next month. Wow. And like, we got to see this and cover Brady in this back half of his career and go to numerous Super Bowls, including 283, including the Malcolm Butler game, including even like I was saying earlier, the Eagles game where, you know, to be on the losing side. but that made that game even more interesting. You know, the Giants Super Bowls,

it was just, I'm lucky to be able to have covered him. I have to say that. I'm with you, like, I was just trying to think about the fact that most of my Tom Brady memories are not about these compiled stats in like his 40s versus other people's 20s. That's all relevant, obviously.

But like, I remember being in the locker room after he lost the Giants the second time and seeing like literal anguish on his face as he took long minutes trying to peel his socks off, his injured body. And like he was, you know, I know you hate this, but Jim Gray was sitting next to him and like Brady just looked very upset. I mean, I think about the time like years later when he beat the Rams.

And, you know, maybe he thought this is the last time we do this with the Patriots in the Super Bowl. And he was going up to individual teammates in the locker room and not just give him a high five. Like it was like two or three minute long conversations looking into their eyes. He was a genuine person. And if you defied him, because there was one time that I remember trying to defy the greatness of Tom Brady, he you will pay the price it was 28 to 3 against the falcons and i'd write this little nflb.com you know you must write some feature coming out of the game so i had write i wrote one at half time i got about 1700 words into how the patriots defense let the team down and even by the end of the

third quarter i was telling you know editor david ely i think um this still works if they hold on and we were both starting to question the concept of it and as the minutes kept going i started to realize I have been banged in the biggest of spots. I don't even have a column at this point. I went against Tom Brady and you pay when you do that. He is on that mountain top with Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan. He's on the top of it. That's how I remember Tom Brady is the Mark post-game filing after 51. I'm just saying it's personal moments like good and bad, like things you learn about how fierce he was. I had about 500 words on Dion Jones and the Falcon's speedy linebackers. I think in that game speaks in that game no one expected them to come back but that game speaks to something check wrote which I totally agreed with was like the greatest thing in sports is when you expect something improbable on paper to happen from like a great truly great player and it does and he brought up that that Seahawks moment as the best as what he thought was the best moment in his career and I thought so too but there's just so many there's so many others that football's

funny because it is such a team sport. You can't divorce Belichick and Brady totally. And you can't divorce Brady from everything that happened in New England. But on some level, it does come down to the cliche of like, are you going to make that drive at the end of the game? Like, are you going to do it or not? And he will always be the greatest at that. One of the best, and sometimes it did come in loss. One of, if not the best drive of his life was 2007. against the Giants they got the ball back down three hadn't done anything all day with about eight minutes to go hadn't and he goes down the field 10 15 plays six minutes to go up for on on Eli Manning because because that was the game where they felt every bit of pressure that they

were manhandled up front even after that drive they didn't top 300 yards of offense yet when he was put with his back against the wall to more than any other moment I thought of his entire career that drive started inside the 10. He went down the field and he got that touchdown to Randy Moss to go take the lead and try to be the hero. And it didn't work out for him that day because the defense didn't finish it off. And that's how football goes. He lost his best Super Bowl performance, as you mentioned, against the Eagles.

I thought that was his best. But he just kept going back and he kept going in that position. And even in a game like that Rams game, again, after that interception, when they absolutely needed a drive to get it done, they changed what they did. offensively all game. They changed the formation. He knows what the Rams are going to do in terms of adapting. And even on a day that was bad compared to that AFC championship where he lit up Patrick Bones, that's the moment where you have to go make that drive if you're Tom Brady. Everyone expected him to do it. He throws it to Grunk and he does it and he adds another Super Bowl. It's just

like that guy delivered. By the way, Eli's no dummy. When he comes out today and records a video message saying, Tom, you're the best ever. He's doing it for Eli because he beat Tom in the Super Bowl twice. Peyton doesn't need to be the best. Tom's the best because I beat the best. Oh, he brings it up. He has the same joke every time. He's like, thanks for letting me have a couple.

Yeah. And why not? As he should. I know the bucks would have to cut him and then there's money issues and all this kind of stuff. And obviously there's so much behind the scenes with their relationship and everything. But like just part of me, not all of me is like, I wish he would like, I wish he would like officially like sign a one day contract with the Pats and I know how improbable that is

and retire a patron. Remember what we talked about like 10 minutes ago? I know. I don't think that's happening. I don't think it is at all. But it would. That also seems like a move by lesser, lesser stars or lesser like they come back. Like, you know, hey, they were a five year career in Atlanta. They went like to Kansas City for two years, fell off the map. And then they go back and have that ceremony at like six in the morning on a Wednesday with the Falcons. It's like, all right, Let's move on. They're going to have their moments. They're going to have their moments together, Ricky.

I have no doubts about that. Him and Kraft and Belichick and forever into the future. Have some doubts. We'll see what, let's see what happens. But I want to ask you guys this. You think there's any way he comes back? Yes.

It's Brady. You never know. Absolutely. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Because if I have one concern, and I've stated this before, the way that Tom Brady is built, I think his intentions are genuine and pure for wanting to go, be with the family, be with the kids.

but I am concerned about like a dull milieu on, you know, at post football and sort of just staring out windows. Like, it's going to be awesome for about four weeks. Then it's like, wait a minute, what there's no, what do I win now? What do I do? It's like you're still the best quarterback in the week. There's nothing left to prove. I don't think so.

It's why we won the quickest sandwiches we've ever won in this show off you. He did. Once it even brought into his mind that he was thinking about it, he just seems like the type two walk away. And I am happy as just like a Brady. fan that he didn't go out on 2019, that ultimately he was right. I mean, for all the people in New England that were mad at Belichick, and I wasn't one of them, I was on the wrong side here.

I thought that was the time to make the divorce because I didn't want to see the decline. Like, he was right. Tom Brady was right, and he proved it right, and that is like an ultimate exclamation point to end his career with. Ricky and Dan, what happens to Greg when at some point in his adulthood? going forward. He flies back into the state of Massachusetts and attempts to get off the plane

into an airport. He is going to be destroyed by this. I was saying the Patriots fans were right there. They were right about that one. I just think of Greg giving like advice to maybe Ellis where she's like she gets her heart broken for the first time or maybe we all get our hearts broken and he's like, well, don't be sad.

It's over. Like be happy it happened. And she's like sobbing on the bedroom floor. It's like, Dad, you suck. You suck. You suck. You're not helping. anything you sound like like a 13 year old girl right now so do you every day all right everybody calm down i know it's an emotional day for patriots fans across the world tom brady has retired

after 22 years all right let's take a break there is other things going on in the nflown including some wild news unfolding as we record here uh so let's uh take a break and we'll hit the rest of the news. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel?

That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get. your podcast.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you

won't find anywhere else. kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we

give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio,

and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you, crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL,

visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome back, time for news and notes presented by Upwork, where you can build a team that will build your business, learn more at Upwork.com. An explosive bit of news came down while we were having our Tom Brady. Discussion. Perhaps Tom Brady is connected to this story as well. Former Dolphins head coach Brian Flores is suing the NFL and teams within the NFL that he says have engaged in systemic racism practices against black coaches. Flores named the league, the dolphins, the Giants, as well as the Broncos. And John Doe teams 1 to 29 is defendants in the lawsuit. It's a clear. class action complaint, which means other coaches, we're assuming, obviously, other black coaches or coaches of color could join him in the suit if they wish. There are some crazy boys' revelations here and allegations.

The suit says that the dolphins, his former employer, of course, the dolphins fired Flores after his third season with the team despite having a winning record. Flores says that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross offered to pay him an extra $100,000 per loss during the 2019 season. That was the season when they started off poorly and everyone assumed it was a tank job. Ross wanted the Dolphins to lose enough games to secure the first overall pick in the 2020 draft. The Dolphins improved that season as it went along, apparently not or allegedly not to Stephen Ross's liking. Flores also alleged that Ross tried to get him to recruit a, quote, prominent quarterback who was under contract to another team.

So this would have happened two off seasons ago. That would have been a violation of the league tampering rules if that player was under contract, which he most certainly was at the time. Flores says he refused to be a part of that situation. The lawsuit also says the Giants scheduled an interview with Flores last week to comply with the Rooney Rule, even though they already knew they were going to hire Brian Dable as head coach. he finds out about it, Flores, because Bill Belichick mistakenly texts him under the impression that Brian Dable is the hire for the Giants. He had been misinformed. It was obviously,

excuse me, Brian Flores was the hire. He had been misinformed. It was Brian Dable getting hired. So, and finally, just to put a bow on the Bronco side of it, Flores contends that three years ago, he was involved in the same type of sham process with Denver when they hired Vic Fagio. and here's a statement from Flores, in making the decision to file the class action complaint today, I understand that I might be risking, coaching the game that I love and that has done so much for my family and me. My sincere hope is that by standing up against systemic racism in the NFL, others will join me to ensure that positive change is made for generations to come. Greg, this is on the day that Tom Brady officially announces his retirement, this is a massive bombshell and it's going to reverberate across the league. it is remarkable i'm still trying to digest it and where to start if you've ever heard brian florist

talk um about racism about what it's like to be a black man a black coach in this country this fits right in with it like he is he is one of um the most passionate and like intelligent speakers on that topic and he is not a man that you would want to mess with i think in this arena and i think stephen ross is finding that out that that's where we'll start with it just because that allegation that his owner offered to pay him extra money for every loss that they had goes against the competitive um rules and everything that the league is supposed to stand for and so that that's that it's it's separate from the racist hiring practice and we can get to the belchick bills thing which is probably those are probably the two the two the two

biggest things in this story, but that is an explosive allegation and cuts to the core and is the NFL's worst nightmare. Really, this story is on two fronts, and that's one of those two fronts. Right. If the Rooney Rule started, and it did with good intentions to make a change, I mean, there has fairly been suspicion around how it's been used year after year. And like there hasn't been, you know, tangible searing anecdotes like this about the fact that certain candidates are brought in, but you get a sense that Team A already knows who they want. Now we have these anecdotes. And if Brian Flores, I think you could argue that Flores is putting himself in a position where it could impact his own career. But to Greg's point, he believes in

these topics. He's not alone. The league needs to change. The numbers show that. They vet that out. And it goes down to the fact that, you know, even beyond Stephen Ross, it is an ownership issue. It is clearly an ownership issue in who they hire, how the practicing of hiring goes down. It's been a black mark on the eye of the NFL for years and years. It continues to be. And this is, I mean, this is sort of everyone that's been looking at this for years and years saying, we know this is happening. This report, these anecdotes are basically bricks being dropped on the reality bricks.

He's got screenshots that are public now of the Belichick interaction. And how that played out was Belichick, congratulations. I'm thinking he had the job, and it turns out that Belichick, and they have Belichick's all of his responses, which is fascinating, that he misunderstood the text that he was getting, that Brian's- We get to see Belichick text coming out of this? They're there, Dan. What a story. They're there now, and he said, sorry, I F this up.

I double-checked. I misread the text. I think they are naming Daible. I'm sorry about that, B-B. And that was before Flores. Right, days before Flores interviewed. Right. And it all checks up because Joe Shane, Joe Shane is the GM who the Giants hired, who worked with Daibu. Basically, they knew when they hired Joe Shane that they were going to hire Daible as their head coach and they had to go through with what Flores is rightly pointing out was a sham Rooney Rule interview. This is incredibly admirable, I think, of Brian Flores, because, yes, this has been an issue, a glaring issue for the league for years that it's a predominantly black league, players-wise.

but the head coaching ranks are predominantly white, and we're not seeing progress in that realm, even though they enacted the Rooney Rule, which if you're not aware what the Rooney Rule is, it means if you are making any head coach higher, and I think they expanded this now to front office as well, you have to bring in a person of color to interview as well, to try to level the playing field.

But it is proven to be something that doesn't seem to really lead to a true increase in the number of coaches, because it bears out when you look at it every year. And the reason bringing this to light and in this manner and dropping a bombshell on the league, that's the type of stuff that can actually lead to tangible change. So I really admire that in him. I also admire him because he's coming off a three-year run in Miami

that was largely successful. And if he didn't get another head coaching job this year, he probably would have gotten one next year. And I don't know where this goes for table. for Flores, but it could go down a road where he doesn't get another head coaching job because that's just what we've seen from the league. Look at Colin Kaepernick is a prominent example. So he's putting himself out there. And I think it says a lot about his character. Also, one other thing. I mean, if you want to know who loved Brian Flores, his players. I mean,

there were one after the next glowing report from the players who loved who Brian Flores was. And every time he got one of these head coaching interviews during this cycle, of course, what else is in our mind? The fact that the dolphins put out concepts and ideas that Brian Flores was tough to work with, that he didn't go along with the plan. He wasn't collaborative. That's rough stuff to put out there about a coaching candidate. But behind the scenes, all this was happening, come on. Well, allegedly. We're going to find out. But yes, if this, that would give, if this turns out to be true, and we'll see, maybe it gets proven, who knows, that would give us a lot of context to, yes, those reports that came out when he was let go of how he was difficult

to work with. The meeting with the unnamed prominent free agent or a quarterback, which connect dots, it could be Tom Brady if you line up when Tom Brady became a free agent and eventually signed with the Bucks, there was a meeting on a yacht. And in the lawsuit, he walks off the yacht, the owner, Stephen Ross, when he sees what's trying to be set up, a meeting between a prominent quarterback, the owner and the head coach to do something that shouldn't be done because you can't tamper with the player currently under contract with another team. This is, this is a crazy story. This is, I like now looking at, now that we've been doing this, we're going into our 10th season,

I like the biggest stories of the ATN era, the biggest game of the ATR, all that stuff. This one could end up being right up there. It has that many layers and could have the repercussions that could really shake the league. One thing, yeah, think of who it involves. It involves the Giants, you know, of the leagues. Tiffany brands.

Right. And it involves this dolphins team and a powerful owner in Stephen Ross. And separate from the hiring really goes out of, you know, part of the intent, I think, is to show people who the, who the dolphins are. Because those, that these allegations with the dolphins don't have to do with hiring. They have to do with how they're running their business. It said that they were pushing Flores, that ownership was. pushing Flores to recruit this prominent quarterback late in the 2019 season.

You're right, Dan. I think you can connect the dots of who that likely is in that, yeah, this yacht meeting that the owner set up where the quarterback just happened to be in the area, took Flores by surprise. He is currently Flores a finalist for the Houston Texans coaching job. He was an interview with the Bears too in addition to the Giants. And so that Texan search is actually ongoing, and he was one of three people brought back for a second interview. So that's just one more. I don't think he's going to get that job.

I don't know. That's just my feeling, but we shall see. If they hired Josh McCown, which feels like a strong possibility, I think that goes to what he's talking about on a bigger level in which is more of the point. If you read what the suit starts with in all the stats of the lack of black coaches in the league, that speaks to his point if Josh McCown gets a head coaching job over him. Whoa!

This is a big one. This is a big one. People are very uncomfortable right now in various buildings across the league. I know. I was wondering what Bill Belichick is thinking. I want to see more Bill Belichick text.

I want to see all sorts of texts. They're pretty basic. They're pretty basic. He signs it. With BB, he just says... He signs the text, BB, which is a classic. Oh, he signs his text. That's such a boomer move. Does he have an iPhone, Ricky?

Yeah, he does. He does. Good, good, good. We don't want another Colleen situation, Ricky. Right, because she has an Android, so... All right. And, you know, we do this podcast multiple times a week through the off season. So buckle up, Marky Boy, we got a subplot to track now. You thought it was going to get quiet? ain't quiet. No, I don't think it's, in fact, I only expect every NFL offseason to get

incrementally more Madhouse from the one previous. I think you're right. That was news and notes presented by Upwork, the world's work marketplace. Learn more at Upwork.com. All right. C.S. Now we get to the part of the show that would have started the show if Tom Brady hadn't retired and Brian Flores news didn't happen. Exactly. All right, Brian, And Daibol is the coach in the New York Giants. We were going to play some sound from that, but that doesn't, that feels a little weird now. Like, well, I will say this. I mean, Daible, Daible deserves this opportunity based on what he's done in Buffalo.

And this is a big moment for him. And I think it's a good hire for the Giants. I don't know if we want to get into analysis of the Daibald hire right now. I guess it's now or never. It does make sense. And I thought it was interesting in the reporting that. And I think there's some fortuity involved. fortuity involved for Daniel Jones, given the draft class and the free agent market,

that it looks like he's going to get another shot here with a real offensive coordinator who just built out Josh Allen's career, helped build it out. So you have a new GM in Joe Shane that's aligned with the head coach from the same organization, and now they get a chance to do the Josh Allen treatment to Daniel Jones. If I'm a Giants fan, I'm feeling optimistic, although concerned. about the latest story that came out surrounding Brian Forrest. I mean, I don't know if I am feeling optimistic. The one thing that I find is rarely, well, it's a bit of a, it can be a trap, is hot

coordinator X goes to new team minus like MVP level quarterback Y and is going to fix hot and cold quarterback Z. I just, it doesn't often work. And I want to see if they even give Daniel Jones the fifth year option. I do feel like, because the Giants had done this in the past with their coaches, you know, you know, Eli Manning would be an example, kind of forcing Brian Daibald to, you know, work with Daniel Jones.

Not that he wouldn't in this season, but like I see it as a one-year experiment and get out of there if he continues to be who he is. Right. Yeah. They could easily not give him the extension and he could still have a chance to have a long-term future there. Like I think that's a totally reasonable way to go out the fifth year option.

That is, I believe, Dable, he spoke very highly of Daniel Jones. I guess what's he going to say? But I think that's part of the reason why they hire. hired him. I don't mind Daniel Jones. I would like to see him in a better situation. I think he showed some progress last year. I just think if you're looking at the market as a whole, unless you're ready to go swinging for these Russell Wilson or Aaron Rogers types or who knows with Watson, like, I think Daniel Jones is a completely reasonable option over everyone else that's available. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing that. It's really the offensive line and the

scheme, I think, that needs to be fixed more than anything in your county on Dable to do that. Look, he had Josh Allen for two years before it really started getting going. So it's tricky, but Daniel Jones has been in the league for three years. I think he's a worthy guy to try out, like it compared to a James or a Teddy or a Garapolo. Why not try it out with Daniel Jones? I think Dable got a lot of credit and rightfully so. Yes, Josh Allen is ultimately the engine that made that offense special in his development. And not just being there from the ground floor with Alan, but he will, even after some ups and downs in the first two years, they went into that third year in 2020 and kind of changed the offense and said, we're putting it more on this kid and putting our faith in him. And they were a much more aggressive attack. And I think Dable saw something in Allen and helped develop him. So there's no slam dunks. I know exactly what you're saying, Mark. But I feel like he is kind of a safe pick. And I just think it's a functional setup because he has a relationship with the

as well. It feels like the Giants may be getting on the right track, at least from coach and upstairs personnel. That's that part, that part, and you know, we've hammered that home with all of these hires. That matters the most. They were never in sync. In fact, I think it's instructive that Daibault actually got on the phone with Joe Judge to ask about like his former employer who was about to hire him and still took the job. So I mean, not that he wouldn't know, but it's like there was, you know, they worked together a long time. I mean, they did. People don't think about Daveo as a Belichick guy, but he's absolutely a Belichick guy.

He had two different stints, worked for more than 10 years with the Patriots organization, then kind of saw his star rise when he went to go work with Nick Saban and come back. So it's like, we'll get to McDaniels in a second. People, all the failures on the Belichick coaching tree, it hasn't stopped owners from continuing to give it a shot. One quick thing on this is that the Giants tried to hire Ken Dorsey away from the bills. that was Josh Allen's quarterback coach. They wanted him to be the offensive coordinator.

The bill stepped up, according to reports, financially, and they kept Ken Dorsey. Josh Allen had publicly stumped to keep Dorsey, and it sounded like that made a difference, and they ended up matching what would have been a pretty big raise, I guess, from the Giants in these staying in Buffalo. It's funny how having a playoff and two-year run, like Josh Allen gives you a louder voice in the room.

Maybe that's what Aaron Rogers has been talking about all this time. Yes, we mentioned Josh McDaniels, the longtime offensive coordinator and architect of the New England Patriots Offensive man who knows Tom Brady. See how this is all connected in a big picture way. Let's Galaxy Brain this thing and see how it's all of one. It's like the PTA movie, Mark, Magnolia. It's like everything is connected. The frogs are about to fall from the sky. I hated that ending in that movie.

That couldn't make any possibly she's here. And I love that Amy Mann song, too, but we're all saying. bringing it together? Like, what, you've taken me out of the film? Yeah, if you cut out the first 15 minutes in the last 10, that's a classic. That's right up there with a boogie in a big spot. All right, anyway, the Raiders, see, we give you everything, football analysis and a little film critique, just a little dash, just to show you that we're there.

I'll tell you, I watched licorice pizza, Dan, on your recommendation. Oh, you finally did? One of the best films I've seen in a long time. I thought you would like it. Yeah, you were. I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking for it. Well, let's stay on this PTA kick around.

Greg, one of your favorite films, Phantom Threat, I finally. sat down and watched that about a month ago and quite enjoyable, beautifully made picture, but also I found it interesting trying to figure out why Greg Rosenthal connected with it on the level he did. So we're going to save that for the off season. Extremely rewatchable, brilliant. Punch drunk love, another great one, but not to the level of phantom thread. But the Las Vegas raiders. Bangor after bangor. Yes, have hired Josh McDaniels as their new head coach. the former Pat's offensive coordinator is getting another shot in a head coaching chair.

The Raiders also hired Patriots, Director of Player Personnel, Dave Ziegler, as their general manager. So very similar deal with Buffalo, big names in Buffalo going to the Giants, big names with the Pat's head to the Raiders. McDaniels, of course, flopped in his two-year stint as head coach of the Broncos in 2009, 2010. He famously walked out on a handshake. agreement to become the head coach of the Indianapolis cults a few years back. And I remember there was much hand-wringing about how he had just lit his future on fire, would never be a coach again. Well, guess what he is. Here's what McDaniels had to say. Things are different now than when I was head coach the last time. You know, when I went to Denver, you know, I knew a little bit

of football. I didn't really know people and how important that aspect. of this process and maintaining the culture and building the team was. And I failed, and I didn't, you know, I didn't succeed at it. And so looking at that experience has been one of the best things in my life in terms of my overall growth as a person, as a coach. All right. So here's, if he needs to be better as a, you know, person-to-person type communicator, He's going to have potential challenge right out of the gate because there's some bubbling behind the scenes that the Raiders and many of the players were, they were big on Basatia and what he had brought to that team after Gruden resigned in disgrace in October, Mark.

So will they get on board of the Josh McDaniels? Probably, but that's kind of a tricky way to start your tender, all the guys like the old coach. Yeah, I mean, it's the very unusual scenario where the new hire has to somehow outshine the interim coach. did down the stretch, which is win over the entire team because of who Rich Pasachio was. And I think if there's been questions about Josh McDaniels, okay, look, when he hasn't been with the Patriots, that Broncos team was a disaster in multiple ways. He went to the Rams in St. Louis for one year and had the 32nd ranked offense in terms of points. Outside of New England, three of us four worst seasons as an OC have been with three other

teams. So I think that needs to be proven. But he graces over the fact that part of the Denver Broncos meltdown was a videotaping scandal where they taped the 49ers during before a game in London with San Francisco. So when I hear this. Where do you learn that trick? Well, exactly this. I don't understand the people think I'm matured. People do change.

I do think he's probably learned a lot about coaching since then. But I would tag it with this. When I think of the Raiders, when they were in Oakland, when I think of the Los Angeles Raiders and even the Raiders in Vegas, what is more countercultural to everything we know about the Raiders and over these past decades than the Patriot way. It feels like an odd fit. I know Mark Davis wants these names, wants these guys, but you're going in with a scenario where, again,

you're saying, we'll make it work with Derek Carr. You've got to figure out if you're going to extend Derek Carr if he wants that. But I think the players get in line. I think the fit is an odd one. Yeah, seeing McDaniels there with the black and white suit and silver and black helmet, it looked weird. And I get why they would want to hire him. I think he's a great offensive coach.

I think he's really good at adapting his game plan week to week. Obviously, it helps with having Tom Brady, you know, for most of your career. But I think the work he did with Mack Jones helped him get this job. He wanted that Chargers job last year. And Telesco had worked with the Colts before, and they didn't want to talk to him because of that experience. So that hurt him there. But it didn't hurt him here. I think it's a good hire.

And I do believe him that he really likes the idea of Derek Carr, because Carr seems like a good fit for what they want to do. I think it takes a quarterback who wants to win before the snap to win that way if you're going to change your offense each and every week. They'll be more unpredictable. And I think Derek Carr could be that guy. But you said it, Mark, he's entering the last year of his contract. He's underpaid relative to league average for quarterbacks.

He'll be one of, if not the cheapest veteran quarterbacks in the entire NFL if they didn't upgrade his contract or give him an extension. And so that's the first thing that he's going to have to handle. And I think it's good that he's going with like another Patriots guy there, Ziegler, because I think one of his biggest problem in Denver was not just dealing with the players, but dealing with his bosses with his GM at the time and his ownership. And that's what got him blown out there. I mean, he did have a couple of moments.

Do you remember there was like, I think it was a Monday night football game, but it might be wrong with McDaniels getting to 5 and O and doing these fist pumps jumping down the sidelines. Against the Patriots. Right. And everyone was like, wow, this is the new boy wonder. And it all collapsed, like almost immediately after that.

I think that was a Sunday afternoon, if I'm not mistaken. But he was running up and down the field. And one of the bigger, like, it almost felt like, it almost felt like a parody of an NFL coach celebrating because it was so surreal. It was. It was a bad spot where the celebration. I think there was a Dane scream in there somewhere, as I recall. All right.

And by the way, make a decision on car. And just. do it. Either give him the new contract. I would say give him the money, yes. Give him a new contract or trade them because guess what? You would get a nice bundle back this particular offseason for Derrick Carr, I do believe. And he's a tradable asset. Don't, don't play this out and then maybe tag him or go into some protracted contract negotiation. Like, this seems like a time to make a decision on Derrick Carr one way or the other. One quick thing on just the page of it. I had a great, I had a great transition set up. It was going to be so good. I was going to say, speaking of make a decision,

the Jacksonville Jaguars, but now it's all lost, Greg. This better be so good. It is good. It's the brain drain in New England. I know people have left over the years, but think of who have been the most important people to Belichick in the last 20 years. It's Nick Casario. It's Josh McDaniels. It's Dante Scornickia. Scott Zolek. And it's Ernie Adams. Those are the four guys that were there with them basically throughout all the winning those four guys and they're all gone and i and i do think there's something to that has he developed like this next wave of coaches and front office guys to like the guys what like we'll see like maybe brings back judge jo judge or flores like those are a couple of other guys but those guys don't skarnikia macdianos casario ernie adams like those

were his like four horsemen and they were all gone right now that's bad house muster okay I think it does. That passes. I think that was good insight on one of the more well-known franchises in football. On the other end of the spectrum, one of the least known as franchises in football, see, not as good. So we got to think of what... We lost its juice. What did we lose? I mean, we gained some great nugget. I'm listening to you guys just go on. It's like, we gain great nuggets from Greg, but Dan, I think you're a showman. And your show was you had to kind of do a second run maybe with not we need to start you know doing the zoom thing since we're still taping remotely where it's like I press a at my hand raised so you know I need to like get in

one more thing you know you guys we've not to ruin the flow of the show oh another one and now we got her coming in yeah but we have minute 89 here you guys just have talked so much that I need to insert a break right here that old man retired and then the atomic bomb was dropped on our It's not our fault. And then Greg had that take about New England, so let's take a break. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero.

We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week. that is exactly what you're going to get.

Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game

from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching, trans, and health, front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game

day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. All right, we're back. Speaking of something, something, blah, blah, blah. sports. The Jacksonville Jaguars, their winding search for a head coach continues. They will conduct a second interview with former Eagles head coach Doug Peterson. Peterson was in the building like a month ago and had, according to Bert Breer of MMQB, trepidation over the

setup in Jacksonville, implying there might be, you know, heat around somehow Trent Balkees still being the GM there. We heard a similar thing about Byron Lefwich, who at one point looked like he was going to get the job, but he supposedly didn't want to be involved with Trent Balke as GM. There's also Rich Basatia is in the mix. He looked like he was going to become the special teams coach of the Bears, but then the Jags were like, hey, bro, you want to come in? You want to maybe be the head coach? We're up to, I think, 10, 10, double-digit head coach interviews now with Peterson now being the guy that makes some logical sense, but Mark, for a job that is on some level as alluring as being the head coach of, I know now it feels like it's a little bloom

off the rose, but there shouldn't be Trevor Lawrence, a transcendent prospect. Nobody seems to really be running toward Jacksonville to get a big chair. That's how it feels. Right. And they have interviewed Rick Spielman, the former Vikings GM for what they call a high level front office position. I wonder if that turns into maybe just the general manager position. If this Trent Balke, I don't know him personally, obviously, but I can't really recall a more universally disc-like individual in terms of reports. But beyond that.

The Houston front office, maybe there's a competitor. But they're kind of in the same tree. It almost feels like now. Trent Balke also went away for a long time. And then he's come back and he's still very unpopular. So it's enduring. But it goes against what we're talking about, the marrying two people that can work together. And the one thing I'd think about Shod Khan, you know, early on in the Jaguars run, it was like, this team's innovative. They're into international football. They want to be collaborative. Even though they weren't winning, it was like, you can sort of see it. And it's maybe revolutionary. But they keep getting this wrong over and over. And it just seems to me, if you're onto your multiple, multiple,

multiple head coach and GM, have you not figured out the unification of these two positions? If you look around the league, that's where it works over and over. And instead, they've got a guy in there that people dislike openly, report after report, trying to shove a head coach to work with him. I mean, it seems like a disaster. It's been some tough reporting out there. I mean, the reporting was they had three finalists. One of them is now the head coach of the Broncos. One of them, was it Eber Fluse?

It was now the coach of the Bears. And the third one was reported to be taking the job along with, that's Lefich, along with an executive, Adrian Wilson from Arizona, that clearly isn't happening. And then they open the finalist round again. It's just if you're a Jaguars fan and I follow, I feel like more than my fair share of Jaguars reporters and fans on Twitter, because I had that call out. I don't know if you remember early in the year of like, oh, who's a good, who's some good Jaguars people to follow?

And I got a lot of great suggestions. John Shipley's great, many other great ones. And it's a tough scene. It's been a tough couple of weeks. for these Jaguars fans, they are going crazy. In other coaching news, I hesitate here, if you could hear it, to dig into this because it feels like it could happen any time and maybe we'll have a more thorough conversation about it.

But the name is big enough where we should at least get it on the radar for this show that Jim Harbaugh is a finalist for the Vikings head coaching vacancy. That's from NFL networks. Mike Garifolo, Garifolo reports that Harbaugh is. quote, deep in the process of vying for the team's head coaching spot as he prepares for a interview that will take place on Wednesday. He is currently the head coach for the University of Michigan where he's had some success, just like he had a success with the 49ers. Before that, there is a new general manager. Obviously, Rick Spielman out in Minnesota, Quesi Adofo Mensa

is now the GM, and they were both in the 49ers organization together. So connect those dots, as always. So Harbaugh to the Vikings. If I'm a Vikings fan, I'm into the idea of it. We'll see if they could get their man. It's interesting that he's going to Minnesota and meeting with him. I mean, that to me indicates just feels like one of those business deals that they're not going to be meeting unless there's a good chance of closing the deal.

that they've already done a lot of... Right. Minneapolis in February is pretty tough. We're aware of that. Plus, he's the coach of the Michigan Wolverines, like one of the best college football teams. So to get this far down the road during recruiting season, our guy Ian Rapport said at one point there were three finalists for the Vikings job. One of them, D'Amico Rines, has taken his name out, reportedly.

The other two coach for the Rams, Rahim Morris and Kevin O'Connell, neither one of which can be officially hired because they're still playing and can no longer interview. They go. It just feels like if they can close the deal, this could be Harbaugh, so get ready. I mean, we got a lot of enjoyment out of the Mike Zimmer, Kirk Cousins, relationship slash non-relationship. I do wonder what a Jim Harbaugh, Kurt Cousins, because Jim Harbaugh, like, I mean, you know, he burnt out in San Francisco at the end there. And I think that he's a guy that, like, his message is going to run hot for a series of time.

And then he's not going to be there after some time. You can't tell me that doesn't sound fun, though. This feels like something that's going to make the NFL more fun to cover. Oh, yeah. I'm off for it. But Jim Harbaugh is one of the weirder personalities. He's very bizarre with the press. I mean, I enjoy it.

But Kirk Cousins is like a glass of milk. And so it's like the two of them don't totally feel joined to the hip to me. Remember when the Harbaugh Bowl happened? It was 49ers Ravens. Yes, I do. Super Bowl 47, I believe it was. And Jim, John was like handling all the media. Obviously, there's going to be a lot of media crush because they were brothers against each other's Super Bowl, something that has never happened before.

John went along with it and then went on to win the game, good for him. Jim was a total weirdo the entire week. We had a front row seat because we were covering press conferences. Jim was never even, like they were, you know, they had the Hardball dad up there and Jim was trying to get off the stage. He is, he's wired differently. But I think like there had been connections to Harbaugh to New York teams in recent years. like, I don't know about all that. You put them up in Minnesota, that feels like this could work. Incredible success, too. I mean, with Alex Smith, with Colin Kaepernick, that's one of the boldest

and best quarterback decisions and changes that's in history of the NFL, the fact they didn't go back to Alex Smith and it works so well offensively. Hey, Kyle Shanahan, maybe you should have paid attention. Go on. Include, yeah, including in the Super Bowl. I think it felt like it was like things were changing in Michigan when the Ravens hired the Michigan defensive coordinator Mike McDonald to be their defensive coordinator this week. And someone made the joke like, well, just like everyone, you know, Mike McDonald of the two Harbour brothers likes John better. But I think there's a little more than that. You know, I think there's like a little more than that. He literally let his top coach go to the Ravens. Like that sounds like a man ready to say

bye. Yeah. Finally in the news, got to love it. Joe Thysman. Washington football team legend. He's in the ring of honor. You know, he's a big deal. He's a Super Bowl champion, long-time media dude. He went on the Damon Amandolaria. That's a tough one. I've always struggled with his name.

I'm going to call him DA because he calls himself DA, CBS Radio. And he let one slip. And I don't mean, you know, like a gas issue. This, something else. that there was a slip the commanders is a is a name that you know is going to be a hopefully one that people will talk about going forward all right so you you like the commanders as the new team name huh i yeah i mean there were there were so many different options but once again you know it's trademark infringement it's it's getting approval from different people it's you know if

you choose a name is there a group out there that isn't going to like it i mean and then i i i This just made me laugh. Then Joe, who seemingly unaware of the Washington is supposed to be announcing the name of the new team name, I believe, tomorrow, just starts talking about commanders and what a commander is, which is funny. A lot of commanders in Washington, D.C., in the Pentagon and a lot of different branches of the service. So to me, that's sort of the way I'm looking at it as the positions of leadership when it comes to the new name. A lot of commanders, you know, down there in the Pentagon. Of course, then the Washington Times reaches out and saying, hey, Joe, so I guess you just let the cat out of the bag.

He's like, ah, haman, how'm not. No, I know what you know. I'll find out tomorrow. It's the commanders. I mean, we're, I guess, an NFL podcast. So, you know, don't come after us. We're not reporting it. No, but Joe thought he's already told us.

No, he talked for two minutes, just assuming everyone I already knew it was the commanders, which is hilarious. Maybe Joe thought it was Wednesday. Maybe he got his days mixed up. Because it's such a first. So, first of all, it's a typical Joe Thaisman moment. I miss Wes on this show. Like, I miss West every day, but I miss him being able to put Tom Brady in perspective. I'd love to hear what he would say.

And I miss him for this story because Joe Thysman opening his mouth and saying too much was kind of a thing Wes would talk about and note forever. I mean, Joe Thaisman had a bizarre broadcasting career and a bizarre playing career in which saying things that ended up getting. the organization in trouble was like kind of what he did. So it's almost perfect that this is how the name is getting out. I mean, it's like NFL branding is top secret stuff. I mean, you don't like, that's the whole thing. Why did they, why did the inner circle who knew that this commander's name and like, give me a break with name dropping the Pentagon like that's

pure white driven snow. Enough with that business. But the idea that Joe Eisenman was brought out of anti-government. The idea that Joe Thaisman is brought into the inner circle as a secret keeper. That shows you that Washington has not figured out entirely how to run its own show. Well, they got to like tell them, you're right. They should have just said show up at 2 p.m. at the press conference and we'll see you there, Joe. And I'm not, you know, waving a flag as a Patriot, Mark, but I don't think he was saying anything specifically about the Pentagon as a pure as the driven snow entity. He just said there's a lot of commanders in Washington, D.C. and the Pentagon. Well, that's true. I don't disagree with that, that those are their titles.

So anyway, when the news comes out and they're the, you know, the Washington, you know, Robbins or whatever, like, I don't, then you're going to find out this is all much ado but nothing. But, uh, Joe, good, good to know you. Never change. Um, all right. I think we got everything. It turned into a supersized Tuesday show. That's not what we aim for typically. But, uh, Mark, that's somehow, sometimes that's just the way of things go. We are incapable. of doing a show under 85 minutes. And so I don't know what super size is or regular size at this point. It is what we do and we will not cease. Do you sound enthusiastic about the product and the podcast and being a part of it? No, I am claiming more fact that we keep talking. We continue like, hey, we'll be a nice tight 45 minutes today. And then another 40 minutes goes on top of it.

If they listen and enjoy it, I'm happy that it's that long. Double it. Let's make a hundred and six minutes. More time, more ads. And that's what I'm really looking for, you know. Right. Someone getting rich, some commander in the Pentagon. Bingo.

Getting that quaffed. I still want to know what Mark was so mad at during the Brady back and forth. But I think it was just generally my opinions. I think that was most sad. No, I don't even, at this point, I don't even remember back that far. It was two days ago in Mark's defense. Tom Brady retired. That's such old news now.

No, dude, you're still recording that same episode. Oh, really? All right, we'll be back Thursday. I think it's our annual, don't say the Super Bowl episode. We will not utter that phrase on Thursday show, but we will be talking about something, presumably, and it will take about an hour and a half to do so. Until that.

I think we can do 45 on Thursday. See, this is what I'm talking about. It's not that I have any issue, Dan, with the actual length of the show. It's this mystical conceit we go in with that it's, you know, oh, I'll tell someone I'll be someone an hour, and then I'm 45 minutes late because this show is 187 minutes long. Right. Who you got, who are you meeting up with later?

Right. Where are you going? I've learned to say that I can meet no one ever now. That's my new, I've learned by now. You're conflicting. Yeah, you're conflicting things here. And would you end the show? Just take us, like, just let's go.

All right, until Thursday. Eat the call. You know, Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Lev Florio, and together we hope.

host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet, we've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. This is an IHeart podcast.