NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Top 50 NFL Players Heading Into 2021

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus and Gregg Rosenthal are joined by Cynthia Frelund to bring you all of the latest news around the NFL including a match between Aaron Rodgers and Brady and N'Keal Harry requesting a trade from the Patriots. Sam Monson from PFF joins the show to break down his top 50 list. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast is not a hit-it-and-it guest. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hanzas. I'm to you from a virtual room filled with some heroes. Greg Rosenthal is with me.

That's nice. But also joining us with Mark Sessler on vacation. A dear friend of ours, Cynthia Freeland. Welcome back to the ATN podcast, my dear. Well, you know, thanks for having me. It's only taken, I don't know, two years. Thanks, I'm sure of a real dear friend. It's been like a billion years.

Wait a second. See, last time we had you on, you went with that same old thing. You said, oh, it took so long to have us on. Now you get the second invite, which is always the seal of approval. You're not a hit-it-and-quit-guid guest. Yeah, you're not a hit-it-and-quit-guest. And you're still going to bury us here in the biggest of all spots at the top of the show. Listen, the top of the show, there's two things that everyone needs to know.

Number one, Dan Hansis has a savage tan. That's the only way to describe it. It's savage, number one. And number two, I wasn't working today, but of course I'll work. Anytime you guys call, I pick up the phone, I pick up the Zoom, I pick up the stream yard link, you know, anything for you guys. No, that's very nice of you. And you know what? Since you mentioned that, I do have a Savage tan.

It's my, not my Irish side. It's the Austrian side. It's definitely not your Irish side. And I want to do a little roll call. Like, where are we right now? Ricky, you could kill that. music anytime you want um where is everyone right now i am on the jersey shore um in my parents bedroom it's a heat wave here on the in the northeast uh where all the magic happens and stop it and

um that's where i am until tomorrow when i head back to l a where are you gregg i'm back home in santa i was on the east coast cape cod and then um at my parents place at the vineyard for nine day or 11 days but just return this week so i mean i don't feel quite ready for it yet like just jumping back in we've got our network show coming up and this is like an ease into it week we're doing one and where's your tan by the way not savage uh it's like a little bit but this this lighting in this room is is rough as always i mean if you put the light on real bright it's just it's always the same color it's perfect here's another by the way as i throw it to cynthia when you're staying with your parents right now it's just me and my

two parents. You know how they're really bad with cell phones? Like they just leave them around in other rooms because they treat them as landlines. My mom's phone's ringing. So let me tee you up, Cynthia. Where are you right now? I'm in Flathead Lake, so Lakeside, Montana. So just go like almost to Canada and like a little bit down. So right by, it's in big sky country. So there's a very large sky here. Also a very large lake, Flathead Lake. I was telling you guys before. They'll tell you around here, it's the largest freshwater lake east or west of the Mississippi in the continental United States, you know? Wow, a lot of caveats.

It's like the first guy to do this. Do you have like a history there, family there? Is there a reason or you just go to Montana? So I ran a marathon near Missoula like two or three years ago and it was really, really great. Yeah, this stupid marathon goals is ridiculous. And it was always really beautiful. And this is kind of a hidden gem.

Like it's not super expensive. still got good food and everything that you want to do. And the lake is really, really beautiful and not too cold. Because I was in Duluth, Minnesota, and I jumped in that lake, and Lake Superior is the coldest thing that could ever exist. It was, it was insane.

Yeah, because my earpiece was out. Did you mention the lake bit that you had? Yes, I did. Oh, don't worry. I got my lake. I got my lake content. That was really good. A lot of light content. The audience needs to know that, you know, keep that in the chamber. All right. So Cynthia's here, and it's awesome.

Cynthia, by the way, she is like the skeleton key for the ATN podcast, non-podcast stuff, because Cynthia has a big role in the Power Rankings TV program. She has a big role on the Pickham TV program that Greg does with Cynthia and Hawk. And we're all big fans of her. And listen, she's a huge hit in the analytical community. She has a machine. She's big on the broadcast. She does a lot with the broads.

Don't forget that. Well, okay, that too. She has a giant machine, like a giant computer, a supercomputer she keeps in her in her boudoir, I believe. It's actually here in Montana with me also. See, I think of it. When I hear about your computation machine, I picture like those supercomputers that Russia built in during the Cold War, where it takes up like half of an airport hanger. But now you're telling me you can actually pack your supercomputer and bring it with you anywhere in. America.

So listen, if you thought that the audience needed to know about lakes, here's what you know about how this works. When you write software, like you don't, the computer can be anywhere. It's like it goes to like a cloud and then it comes back down. Like this thing's like, it's like it's everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It's pretty great. No, I'm with Dan, the bigger the computer, the bigger the information inside of it. Perfect.

It's huge. Like I'm going to move it up here to Montana. You're going to get a call from your agent right after this podcast because I'm sure your agent listens to everything and watches everything you do. And your agent's going to say, number one mistake of being a giant in the analytics community, never tell them you don't have a supercomputer because it's more impressive to have it. No, the hardware, not software, hardware. But I also have a supercomputer because that's the way it works.

It's just they make them smaller these days because, you know, technology. She's breaking another rule of the analytics community, never do a program with someone else from the analytics. community who can challenge you and we have uh sam monson from pf coming up there oh how exciting is that are you excited for that or you i'm really excited i have one question for sam though because when he does these and i love the voiceover he does this like really cool graphic video that i watch every week like you know for it describes something for a matchup of the week whatever but he suppresses his accent in it and i don't get it so i need i have so many questions because i love the accent Work it, use it.

Women love that. What are you talking about? He's going to be on the show. In just a little bit. And I think that's fascinating. And we're going to have to get into that. But before we do, I just want to touch base about, as some of you may have heard, if you follow the machinations of our business.

Two weeks ago, NFL media announced a wave of layoffs across the company. Sadly, our little world, the podcast world and the editorial group were not spared. It was a sad week a couple weeks back. And a lot of us are either on vacation or just kind of taking some time out and it kind of jolted us back to reality. And I just thought, and Greg, I know you and Erica and Cynthia, perhaps feel the same way that we should take a little time just to share and acknowledge and say thank you. to some people who are very important, instrumental, really, to the growth of this show, to our careers, behind the scenes.

And we're just nice people to work with, starting with Ryan Bartlett, who's a rock behind the scenes, working arm and arm with Ricky on a variety of projects in the digital realm, just a great guy, passionate Casey Chiefs fan. And we remember the Get Bartlett to Miami. So he got to see the Chief Super Bowl in 2020, a second John Marvel who was our boss on the writing side of things and you know a real glue guy in the newsroom a huge Tom Petty fan a guy with more experience and news than all of us combined and a supporter of our show and us as individuals and just a fun guy to work with and get a drink at the cozy which I want to do with him when I get back to LA finally Mark Brady who was the guy pulling the strings of the podcast division he was

our train conductor, the man who always was passionate about the job. He put in endless hours vital to the success of our show. And we've grown so much as a podcast since 2013 when we started. Mark was key to that and he was also relentless in his push to get us to London in 2018 and 2019. And this is just a measure of the man to me that when I had a nice conversation with him last week, just kind of talking about everything. And the phone call near the end, he's like, here's where I was and trying to get you guys to London this fall. You should have this information and kind of work with the bosses. Like who does that after what happened?

So in short, it sucks. We don't work with these people anymore. It's part of the business. This is how it all works. Unfortunately, sadly. But just the thank you to them for everything that they did. And we hope to see them all down the line. Yeah, we had great times with Ryan.

I'm so glad, you know, Bartlett got to see the Chiefs win the Super Bowl up close. It's a memory. I know, well, you know, remember forever. And Marvel was so instrumental helping execute how the message of Chris's passing, you know, got delivered to NFL network and was a rock through that Super Bowl weekend and helping us, among a lot of other things, working closely with them. And Mark Brady especially, to me, has such a special place in the show. We always joke about the shadowy league figures and in theory mark brady was like you know what was one of them you know he was the head of the podcast mark and marvel really that yeah when we talked about almost always well i don't know i can think of some truly shady characters that have left the company

since it before those are the nefarious versions of these were more of the guys that we we like yeah they were part of the machine as well but but mark was our biggest supporter i mean it it he was our supporter in terms of believing in what we did from day one more than anyone it's just a fact that even when we were being a pain and you know being a pain to him early on sometimes i remember west and him going at it we all we all had our things he believed in us and supported us behind the scenes and when we weren't around too to other people tirelessly like he always believed in us he always tried to make the case of how important we were at the company in a way, frankly, that no one else at this entire company did. And so it's really sad. He's just a great man

and a dad. And he knows we love him and a huge supporter. I know he was a big part of your career too, Erica. I mean, huge. We, you know, we were very, very close. And he's the reason that I am at the NFL. And there are many times that I was going to leave. And he was like, You're not leaving. Like, this is what we're going to do. And talk about fighting for someone. I mean, just to have someone to have, and I've worked for a lot, a lot of people. And there's a lot, a lot of assholes out there. And he is not one of them. Like, there will be times where it's like, you know, he just, just a sweet guy to his entire core. And we talked, you know, we talk a lot still. But he told me on the phone, you know, started the whole phone call was saying how thankful he was. that I was referred to him by someone. He's like, I'm so thankful by this person that recommended me to you,

like, recommended you to me. And like, you are instrumental and you deserve everything that you've worked. And I'm like, why are you saying this stuff to me right now? Like this, it's he is,

and Ryan did so much for the podcast team as well. And, uh, it's, it's really, really, really sucks. It's,

it's what's, what's terrible and this, you know, losing friends at the office like this, it stinks. And then you look at how much has changed for us as a podcast in the last, you know, 15 months or something. Obviously, we lost West and now a lot of these very important people all around the show. So it feels a little bit and with some uncertainty about the media group right now,

this feels a lot like the great unknown era of the podcast as we edge toward our ninth season. But, you know, we're very excited about what's to come on the show. but it's also very important to talk about this because these are the people that help make the show what it is if you're a fan of what we do. Really quick, before you move on, one in true NFL network style, I didn't know Ryan was one of the people.

I didn't ask, I didn't go around asking who's gone. And I will say the thing that I love about all three of these men that you haven't brought up yet, in addition to being super supportive and being very helpful and instrumental in all of our careers, I loved how good of dads they are. You could never be around.

I mean, Marvel's son is a baseball player, and if you've been around for five minutes, you feel the, like, glow of this dad who's just, like, so happy and so proud of his son. And it's so sweet. And the same thing with Mark, like, his kids were the world, and his wife, the whole thing, like, you're just around, I mean, Erica and I actually were in Boston. We went to a Sloan conference three Sloan's ago, and we did the podcast that I was doing. And he was so great about making it fun and a team trip and really just pushing hard for that too. So when you talk about it, I mean, we even went on a tour of Harvard because like his wife had gone there and he was just so excited to see it because his family meant everything to him. And it's the same thing for Bartlett as well. Like his, I mean, these people are just great human beings.

And I will say as an alum of ESPN, I've never met people that like, like go fast forward 18 months down the road. They'll all be in better places because they're all hard workers. they're all good people and they're all really good at what they do. So they're going to land in a better spot almost every single person that I've like ever encountered that's gone through something like this. This is not, it's not personal. It's not anything to do with. It's literally like changing business models, all these different things that are going on with our business. We're trying to partner. There's a lot of strategy things going on. So they're going to all be in great spot. And then they can go hire us when we need jobs again. So they're going to be, they're going to be

okay. But they're great dads and I want to point that out. We might. We might. I mean, this is how this industry works. Like, you know, for sure. That was one of my favorite moments in newsroom history because my, as a kid, I always wanted to be a baseball player. And I still, if I had to pick one career in a dream scenario, it would be like playing 17 years in Major League Baseball. I just feel like that would be the greatest life. So I've always had such awe and looked at people that are in professional baseball. And James Marvel is John's son, who's in the Pirates organization in Pittsburgh.

And when he got called up to the majors in September 2019, it coincided. It just happened to fall on a Sunday of week one. So we were all in the newsroom and John was in the newsroom was at the game in Pittsburgh. And he was on TV and I think they interviewed him. And James pitched well that day. He threw five or six innings and pitched well. And it was just like such a cool moment to be part of that and following James' career and hope to see him back in the big league soon.

But I think you're going to say that one of the best moments in the newsroom with Marvel was when he broke up another reporter like wanting to like punch me in the face. It's like, everyone out of here. Okay, you're coming with me. And he like took me. That was. All right. That was actually the best moment ever. We'll tell you about it afterwards, Cynthia.

We've referred to it a handful of times on this show, but we'll keep the name. All right. All right. Anyway, we'll see you guys down the line. Let's get to the news. He's an NBA owner, a self-taught guitarist, and has guest starred in both the office and Game of Thrones. He's unhappy with his boss and has no options. Who is Aaron Rogers?

Ding, ding, that is correct. Well done. That's a projection, Tom. I've never said I'm unhappy with my boss. You know, Tom Brady, I'm liking this guy more and more, Greg. It took about 20 years. But that was in some interview ahead of that dopey golf match. They were all involved in that Aaron Rogers' team won, I believe.

Cynthia's a big golfer. Maybe she can give us more information on that. But, yeah, Aaron Rogers, who I guess is still in limbo, is NFL future, Tom Brady having some fun at the reigning MVP's expense. Why was his background blurred? What is Aaron Rogers hiding? Like his many bags? Like what's going on with that?

Why is it blurred? Brady is the guy who's not really very funny, but he found one joke that everyone loves. And so he just keeps hammering this one joke. And that's the way to do it. I mean, that is the way to do it. It's like, it's the first time anyone's like, hey, Brady's got some pretty good zingers.

And so he just keeps going back and back on this Roger. You better believe if I ever said something funny, I would keep replaying it. I'm just not funny. So if I kept doing, I would just keep going to it. That's one of your long-running bits, I guess. That's a bit. You just say you're not a funny person.

I'm not. I'm truly not. Then I don't try, and I'm never going to. Which makes you an outlier because the great Dave Damashik is known to say the problem is that everyone thinks they're funny deep down. And that leads to a lot of problems when they try to share a sense of humor that maybe actually isn't as strong as they may believe it. to be, but Cynthia, no. You know what? I think with Brady, by the way, and I think when you

win six Super Bowls and three MVP's and you're generally recognized as the greatest football player in the history of this country, you realize that you're like, oh, wait, I'm in the Sinatra zone. And like Frank Sinatra could say or do anything and nobody could get mad because he was Frank Sinatra. Like Aaron Rogers is basically that in the sports realm. So he's the only guy that can give Aaron Rogers shit and know that Aaron Rogers has to take it because Aaron Rogers might be Aaron Rogers, but he's not Tom Brady. It's all good fun, but you know, you can mess with people and Aaron Rogers is a sensitive sort. He's like another member of the rat pack, but Brady Sinatra. Aaron Rogers still Sammy Davis, so ultimately. Oh, that's actually pretty good.

Who's Dean Martin? Would that be Peyton Manning? Sure. Who's the other guy? There's the other guy that nobody, Joey, who's the last guy in the rap act? This is where, this is where we need Wes. We need Wes. We need a Google. We need the Google machine. All right. Let's get to the news.

All right. Let's get going here starting. Well, so we, this is the first time we've done a show, Cynthia, in, I guess almost two weeks. Here podcast in two weeks. Yeah. So that's kind of a record for our show. So we're just going to catch on to what we missed. And we'll start with the news.

that went down late last month. The NFL is fine, the Washington football team, $10 million as a result of the league's investigation into the team's workplace culture, that money will eventually be used, we're told, to support organizations committed to character education, anti-bullying, healthy relationships, and related topics, the league said, and also Tanya Snyder. So Tanya, Tanya, I don't know, I never know with that. was named the team's co-CEO this week. And we'll take over the day-to-day duties

and represent the team at league functions for what's been deemed the next several months. So that's pretty open-ended. Her husband, of course, is Dan Snyder. And he will put his focus on, we're told, new stadium plans and other matters, the NFL said. Greg, you're kind of big picture on how this is played out.

You know, the fact that it came out right before the July 4th weekend, you know, played into the, stereotype, the idea that it was a news dump, because it did feel that way. This is one of the worst chapters in the last couple of decades of a team, quote, you know, scandal, I guess, for lack of a better word that there's been. You know, it's funny to think of the attention that like Deflategate got just, just media wise. I'm not blaming the league totally on that either compared to this.

And then it, you know, was kind of shuffled. at this time a year where there's not a lot of people paying attention. And I thought almost all the reactions were understandable. Because on one hand, you know, the NFL sometimes feels almost powerless compared to the owners who have all this money and are ultimately the commissioner's boss. And it's pretty rare. It's unprecedented essentially to basically remove an owner, even if it's not fully in practice. Even if there's, you know, it's his wife now running the team. It's a pretty big message to be sent that like they're essentially removing him from his duties as an owner, his day-to-day duties and how publicly like embarrassing that is and everything that goes along

with it. And the money is significant. And it's something on the other hand, I totally understand all of the points that have been made about like the lack of clarity of what they actually did in this report there was very few specifics and i thought sally jenkins's point in the washington post about like okay let's just stick the woman let's stick the wife to clean up the husband's mess was was well was well said too so on one hand i do think it's kind of unprecedented but it also uh you know in terms of the level of money and and and everything that they did to kind of put a spotlight on snider on the other hand it did show like the lack of power because in theory if everything they're saying was true, and they had the power to change owners, this would be the

spot, right? And they can't go that. They couldn't go that far. They couldn't go that far. And so I kind of get it on both sides. But it's unlike any other story I've ever seen in the NFL, that's for sure. The team had been under the independent investigation since July 2020, stemming from a number of sexual harassment allegations by previous employees over a 15-year period detailed by the Washington Post last summer, and an attorney, Beth Wilkinson, led the investigation, interviewing more than 150 people, mostly current or former employees of the organization, all granted anonymity. It's a tough one to get out. You were rolling your eyes, Cynthia, as a woman who's worked at the NFL for a while.

Well, I love Ron Havara. not saying. I love Ron Rivera. I think he is an amazing man, human, and I'm really, I loved how he went about his cancer situation. I like Jason Wright a lot. He, he and I share, he started at, he went to the University of Chicago booth. The booth, I started business school there. It's a long story. We'll talk about that another time, but we, we share kind of some roots there. There's a lot of good people that work there presently. I don't know how I would handle this because I don't know any of the truth, but I do know that a great organization in L.A. If you want to donate to one. It's called Peace Over Violence. So that's kind of my thoughts.

Well said. All right. Moving on, I feel like the start of the NFL season is the premiere of Hard Knocks in the second week of August. And here it comes once again. And it will be the Dallas Cowboys who will be featured on the program. They are the first team to be featured for a third time. Hard Knocks premiered 20 years ago with a profile of the then defending champion, Baltimore Ravens. A lot of Todd Heap pop that season. A lot of Brian Billick lounging in a hammock in a DGAF mode, as I recall. A lot of Tony Saragusa.

But that was then, this is now five-episode season debuts August 10th at 10 p.m. The old Zeuser, as he's been doing for roughly 400 years now, we'll be leading the episode recaps on NFL.com. So stay tuned on that. And the Cowboys, 2002 and 2008 were involved, and now 2021. And I, Cynthia, you know, when they throw an assignment at you right after the Super Bowl to keep the website alive. They asked me to write a hard knocks preview laying out the teams that could be picked. The Cowboys were amongst them that could be, quote unquote, mandatory inclusion because they checked three certain boxes that would leave them

open to being on the show even if they didn't want to be. I don't believe that, especially last year after they had the Pittsburgh Steelers and they did not pick them. But anyway, it's beside the point that Cowboys were selected and Jared Jones and company. To me, I wrote back in February, they were the best choice of the five teams that could be compelled to be on the show. And there will be plenty of meat on the bone. And people like to complain about Hard Knocks, like people like to complain about Saturday

night live, how it used to be better. and it's derivative at this point and all that. But you know what? People still watch it and you will be watching it as well, many of you listening right now. I'm a big fan. I think this is a great choice. First of all,

last season was, I mean, with COVID and everything, was super confusing with two teams, like the jump cuts between the two. If you didn't kind of know what the players looked like, if you hadn't been as familiar as we are, like it was harder to follow.

So I'm glad to, but that was COVID's fault. It wasn't hard on Knoxville. I think they do a brilliant job. It's a masterful show. I always like it. I always like Saturday Night Live, too. So we're good on that.

But I also think that the thing I'm most looking forward to, will they please, do you think that they're listening to this right now? Can they please, like, take an inventory of everything coach eats? I just feel like he's that guy who like gets the entire picnic table and he's like a little bit of this, a little bit of this,

a little bit of this, a little bit of this. Like I just, I have to know what Mike McCarthy eats. Mike McCarthy dietary habits. I like that. It's got to be like amazing. It's got to be amazing.

Like that's a sub story right there. Like there's got to be a lot of food. I mean, they had Rex on and we didn't get that. with Rex, although he, iconic, let's go get a goddamn snack. But we didn't see Rex eating a lot, but maybe we're overdue for a food-focused, hard knocks. The Joneses usually give a lot of access, which I like. I don't feel like they're not going to be like pressing on the edits. Like when they did all or nothing, that was the best all-or-nothing season.

100%. Because they, like, allowed themselves to look a little vulnerable at times and allowed the coverage to be better. So I'm all for it. Anyway, Hard Knocks back in August. Can't wait. And by the way, the funny thing about Hard Knocks, and like I said, I write the recaps. Everyone watches the first episode, and it's all anyone's talking about. And then I start to feel like I'm fading into like a solitary chamber as the weeks get along and we get closer to real football.

But those first couple episodes especially are always so fun because everyone's watching and talking about it. And everybody, I can tell you, everybody around the league in the buildings, the coaches, GMs, they all watch it too. It's fun to see what's going on behind the scenes with colleagues. All right. In other news, Nikil Harry has been a huge disappointment for the New England Patriots, a number 32 overall pick, a wide receiver who has not been able to get his career off the ground.

And after just two years with the team, he has requested a trade. Greg, when we went through, is it roster reset? I think it is. What's your branding on it? Projected starters.

Damn it. I knew it was one of the other. projected starters. I kind of specifically targeted Harry when I was looking at your depth chart is what happens with him as a first round pick. It's starting to look increasingly possible that he is going to be one of those rare guys that doesn't get a third year with the team that drafted him in the first round. Yeah, it's a little weird because after Nelson Aguilar,

I'm not sure anything's really set in their receiver group, but he he's not feeling the vibe. So it's almost like he's trying to beat the Patriots of the Punch, doesn't want the shame of getting traded for a late seventh round pick or whatever it would be. They're not going to get much. They're not going to get much more for him. I don't think. I don't know if I think it's a good idea. A nice little bit of NFL news to just sprinkle into the week. My focus has been mostly on Wimbledon, Dan. I don't know if you know, I'm doing another side podcast now. Inspired by Mark Sessler just and you,

for a long time saying that eventually, or Mark saying, I'm going to leave someday to do a Quartz of Thunder. And now I'm actually doing Courts of Thunder. It's a podcast, not a blog. Wait, is it called Courts of Thunder? I called it Courts of Thunder. Why not? Just for my own enjoyment.

It's only during the Grand Slam. So it'll be over, you know, until U.S. Open in a week. But, yeah, me and I'm legitimately curious. And you're hyper knowledgeable in the realm of tennis. So I'm sure there's a lot of good, good. talk in there. And you do it with a co-host, right? Yeah, with Glenn Clark, who's a boss. Oh, we know Glenn. He's been on the show before. Ravens guy. Do you, are you finding it's connecting with our audience so far? I have no idea. You know, that's why I'm trying to let them know.

Come, come subscribe. Yeah, no. I'm hearing, you know, the people that have been listening to it, they like it. I mean, I know it's a niche audience here. You know, you're not slicing the biggest pie with tennis, which is too bad. That's why I want to do it. It's just, you know, it's, it's, like it's such a great game. It's such a great expectation. Next year, when you redo it, when you bring it back, then you need a partner with like, you know, Amazon or one of these things. And then they can send me food so I can listen to it and eat like I'm there, right? Because there's special food there, right? Like when you go to Wimbledon, what are you supposed to eat? It's like strawberries and cream. You can get that ready for breakfast at Wimbledon this

weekend. Yeah, you could get there ready. I must be hungry. All I'm talking about is food right now. but next year have Amazon delivered to me, to my door. You can, you know, there's your business idea. Then they can- I think getting me paid is almost impossible with this endeavor. So getting free food for you seems like another. I pay for it. I really doubt that'll ever happen.

Did you have to push courts under through Congress? Or was Glenn like, all right, whatever, dude. Let's just start the episode. Like, was he on board? I know, because I had a better, I had a better name of a podcast. I love it. Yeah, it is. But I have context.

Yeah. Yeah, and I had a better name initially called Only Slams, like, only fans, but we're only doing during the slams. That was better, and yet, I don't know, I just courts of... No, courts of thunder. That was the right move. I didn't even know what that was until this summer. I watched a lot of episodes of Catfish.

That's what I learned when OnlyFans was. So, you know, learning everything this summer. Look at you. In other news, Offensive Line News, the NFL... Excuse me. NFL football team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, nailed it, have released right guard David DeCastro.

This was pretty stunning when it happened a couple weeks ago. Mike Garifolo reported then we found out that he's dealing with all sorts of issues with his ankle and it could lead to the end of his NFL career. So the Steelers with a lot of turnover

on their offensive line and a Stone Age pony, as Mark Sessler puts it, behind center in Ben Rothlessberger, a huge roll of the dice on that offense in a lot ways. And in other news, my New York Jets continue, in my opinion, and the opinion of many others, to get better. They signed Morgan Moses, the right tackle to a one year, $3.6 million contract. He will compete and most likely win the job at right tackle, which would kick George Fant

into a swing tackle type role, which might be a better fit for him. And also, with as great as McKay Beckton was as a rookie, he had trouble staying on the field. So it gives you some much-needed depth. I just really like this brain trust with Sala and Joe Douglas, and this was a move that made a lot of sense, and the Jets have a proven starter. Moses was a good, dependable guy in Washington for several years. Yeah, I mean, I think anything to address the Jets O line is smart.

I think if I'm a Jets fan this season, I'm thinking, okay, let's just make it look better and better. And if I'm going two years out, then you can start to talk about things like, you know, late January football like you know not because obviously the season's been pushed out so now everyone's playing January football but you know it's it's it's one of those things where just be patient Jets fans aren't known for their patience but this is a situation the offense is good that's all that matters to me it's it's like your secondary is not good does that watson look good

this was the move where it sort of got me over the hump of being like wow the Jets could be a pretty fun offense if Wilson can play the guitar as Dan would say I mean, they, they really did. This was, this was one of those movies. Like if Morgan Moses was a free agent coming into March, he probably would have gotten like four years, 50 million or something from some team. Not saying he would have been worth all that,

but he probably would have. But because this all happened late, like, and everyone would be like, oh, that's one of the big signings of the off season. Number 33 on the top 100, Morgan Moses goes to, you know, the Jets. But now it's just like kind of buried in June. They look, they should be eminently watchable on offense.

I really hope so. I'm actually- And they'll be fun, like the scheme, the players, everything about it. I want to watch them more than I have for a while. It all hinges on Zach Wilson. And I refuse to get too excited because the Sam Donald experience was pretty hurtful. And we know there were a lot of factors that went into his struggles. But the reports on Wilson are very good at a camp from beat reporters. I trust that he just looks like he's going to be able to handle this and maybe even thrive in an offense.

that is modern and suited to his skill set with better players around him. I want to watch, I want to look forward to watching the Jets again. It's been a couple of years now where I haven't even been excited about watching them. And I feel like this could be a turning point, but I'm trying to keep things under control here, Cynthia. Okay, so Greg and on our show where we have to pick the winner of every game. And it's a lot of fun. Pickle. And I think because- Is that coming back?

Game day view. Game day view. Yeah, game-day view. Use me called pick-up. Greg has so many projects. I struggle to keep track. We hope it's coming back. We don't know, but I think in honor of that, whether or not it comes back, in honor of that,

I think right now, since week one is Sam Darnold versus your jets, I think that me and Greg should be on the panther side and you should be on the jet side and it should be for like, you know, some snacks or food because I can't stop talking about food. Like something, you know, go have a beer somewhere. And we'll be the Panthers and you be the Jets. It'll be fun. And we, all right, I'm certainly down with that is great, because Greg is somebody. I don't even know if I want that. You're sticking me with Darnel. I'm a pretty anti-Darno.

Like my anti-Darnold, uh, take is going to travel with me to Carolina. So I'm not too high on these Panthers. I'll do a sandwich with you on this, Cynthia. Right. Sandwich today. Week one. All right. And finally in the news, um, rest in peace, supplemental draft. It won't be held this year. I actually reached out to handsome Hank, Henry Hodgson, who for multiple years on our website, NFL.com, offered up his supplemental draft mock draft, which was always one of my favorite pieces of content on our fair website. I asked for him to give me a statement to read, but what he sent back to me, unfortunately, is not something that would keep him employed.

So I'll just say that he's disappointed and is this the end of the supplemental draft? I don't know. I didn't read the story very closely and forgot to check it out before we started. I just know it's not happening. It's heartbreaking two straight years, no supplemental draft, just the amount of draft prep that goes into it for me, for all the people who love it, like Henry, you know, just the excitement it brings. It's like, ooh, well, Wimbledon and NBA finals. No, this is supplemental draft season. And we've missed it too straight a year.

We need to rebrand it. It just needs a rebranding. Supplemental draft sounds awful. Like some terrible iron pill you have to eat with a banana or something in the morning. You need to think of a clever name for it. If it were called Courts of Thunder, people would, they wouldn't get rid of it. You just need to rebrand it. All right.

Let me get Greg's projects fit before we bring Sam Bonson. Before we bring Sam Bonson on. He has the around the NFL podcast. He has the debrief. He has the RJB. brief is a written piece on you got RJVP right yep

that's a podcast with Anthony Jessenik or the Rosenthal and Jezelnick project which was the previous iteration well that was at the NFL yeah now he's got the first name you have courts of thunder now you have what am I missing your game day pick show game day view

game day view yeah anything else I mean nominated just so we're clear yeah national radio spots. I mean, is this? We have an Emmy nominated host of that show. I mean, I don't know if it was nominated for his work on our show, but Hawk was nominated for an Emmy. Doesn't matter. And he is on our show. Do you guys get a little bit annoyed when in our newsroom everyone has an Emmy except for us? Yeah. Maybe you have one, Cynthia. I don't know. I don't have

what do we have to do to get an Emmy. Seriously, I want an Emmy. Maybe make a better TV show, Greg. That would help us. Actually, I think I do have one. But when I On the other side, the business development side. Like I worked at ABC and we did that show, like we did that sync project with Gray's Anatomy. It was like, you know, 2010. But you have the trophy. Well, I didn't get the trophy because you have to pay for it.

It's like $300. And it was like my name and a list of like 50 other people. So it wasn't that special. Okay. I would not pay for it. I got to vote on some other Emmys. So that was cool. Thank you for running through them.

I might be returning to an old project though, again this season. That's a little tease that Chris Wesleyan took back over for me. taking back the reins on the old QB index. I mean, what a moment. What a moment to be on the Greg Rosenthal train. That's all I'll say. Of which I am a passenger, I'll tell you what.

I'm in the first row. I paid for the upgraded seats. I'm in first class on that one. That's what's happening in the news. You promised a guest. And, you know, we... Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin.

And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to get. maybe an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining.

And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen to NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL. to learn more. What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks.

On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision makers, and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate.

how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Really sprung this upon Cynthia because we know she is in the analytics community and here with us now joining us on the show is a man who is the lead NFL writer analyst for pro football focus. I mean, that is, that's a job title right there. It's the great Sam Monson. Welcome to the round of the NFL.

podcast, Sam. Thank you. And it's a critical distinction there that the, you know, the lead analyst slash writer, not math person, because my level of math ended, you know, we did different educational system be over in Europe, but GCSE intermediate level, which is like just above being able to count numbers. So other people do the math stuff and then I just, you know, interpret it and make sense and write about it at PFF. Yeah, but like a lot of the guy, you know, there's a lot of guys over at PFF. You guys are now in Cincinnati. You have that like underscore PFF in your Twitter name. But none of them are the lead writer.

I mean, they're all just kind of like, hey, we're just guys at PFF. We're not Sam. You know, it's a big flex going lead. Right. But a big part of that was just claiming it and hope nobody noticed or criticized me for it. So it's, I'm not sure there's a ton of merit involved in that. Just, you know, you shoot your shot and see what happens. So about a week ago, PFF,

drop their 50 best players in the NFL right now. Sam had the byline on that, and we're going to get into that and also some guys that were notable cuts. It's a great piece of content to run in late June, and I know the football world devours it, and that's good. But before we kind of get to that, I just wanted to talk with you, Sam, because I touched with you briefly before the show, just to know how long you've been around at PFF, and you said since 2008, which is going way back there.

And, you know, PFF has a seat at the table in professional football. And I think that's very interesting because the NFL, like most businesses, but especially in the insular world of pro football, they don't take kindly to outsiders, especially those who, quote, never played the game. and I know Nick Hornsby founded the site in the UK. You're an Irishman. So, I mean, that's another layer to this. And I'm just curious, as someone who's been with the company for well over a decade now,

how long did it take in your mind to get a foothold and to kind of feel like you would earn the industry respect, because you certainly have. Because as of a couple years ago, PFF has customized data that they send out to all 32 NFL teams NCAA FBS team CFL teams media all over the country sports agencies i mean you are a power player as a company um how did this take hold and did you sense a lot of pushback industry wise until that happened yeah you're right the NFL doesn't like people didn't play the game or real football people and you can only imagine that that gets magnified massively when you're foreign as well, right? You know, you're British or you're Irish or your European coming over

and telling us what to do at football and never played the game. Everything's going against you. So yeah, that was definitely a big thing that we had to battle against all the way. But critically, once you talk to people, you know, for any extended period of time, it becomes very obvious, very quickly if you do or you don't know what you're talking about. So as soon as you're actually able to get in front of any NFL guys and walk them through what it is, PFF was doing and what it is we could bring and help them with, that disappears and that dissolves. And that's that's the story in a nutshell of how Chris Collinsworth ended up buying the company that, you know, he found PFF was really interested in the data, bought a kind of consumer

conscription that we were selling at the time. And then, you know, thought, realized that this site was run by European British guy, Neil Hornsby and, you know, phoned him up, thought he'd been cheated out of his money, but 10 minutes later on the phone with Neil, and, you know, he was convinced. It's like, okay, this guy may be from a weird place in the back orders of Britain, but he knows what he's talking about. He knows football as well as anybody in the NFL, and that's where that starts. So the first hurdle is the toughest. Once you can get in front of people, once you can get them to accept the premise of what is you're bringing to the table, then it all falls into place. And really, you know, our first few years,

we would go to the combine and we would try and set up meetings with all these teams and just getting the meeting was the achievement. Once you got them in the room and you walked them through the process, nobody ever left that room going, well, this is ridiculous. Like, this is useless. We don't need any of this. This doesn't make any sense. Every single meeting, you would be like, wow, this is amazing stuff. We could do all kinds of stuff. This is fantastic. Getting the meeting was the achievement. And then each year it built on the last year, and we went from a few meetings. to half the league to most of the league to all the league and that was so how it went over those for a few years. I think it also partly changed. I noticed when like PFF's evaluation started

having real world implications, like guys like Andrew Whitworth, I'm trying to think of a few off the top of head, just like guys that like PFF always had as one of the top people started making more money because I think in making more Pro Bowls, I think partly because PFF had them ranked so high and so the media sort of started you know catching on to how good they were and like people started getting paid through like some pff grades and then i was i was like okay that is that is some real like economic impact they're making yeah it's funny um i think offensive win in particular is one area where we've really helped a lot of players along guys like whitworth you know evan mathis was one of our first yeah player that we were kind of championing way before anybody else um because

offensive line, you don't get the stats, right? Before we existed, all beat writers would ever tell you about the offensive linemen that your team had signed is, you know, started eight games last year. Well, what does that mean? I mean, were they good games? Were they bad games? What? That tells me nothing. So now, you know, with PFF grades, even if you ignore the grade, we can give you some data in terms of pressure and pressure rate and all those kinds of things. So you can start to quantify how good these offensive linemen are. And even if you don't agree with us, like even if you think we're crazy, it makes you go and watch that guy, right? So even if you think we were way off on Evan Mathis, people that would never have watched a snap of Evan Mathis were going and

looking at this guy and determining from the cells whether he was good or not. And then people watched his tape, came to the same conclusion. And suddenly Evan Mathis is the guy that actually does get coveted in the NFL, signs, you know, a couple of decent deals with teams, having been, you know, essentially the backup in a two-man rotation at Guard with the Bengals back in the day. I would say the thing those those metrics the ones that you've pioneered and created I think especially like from the college into NFL kind of the bridging the gap between the two nobody has those for college especially right like some teams have their own version of like they do a free agent tracker and blah blah blah but you know it's it's really standardizing and become like the gold standard of what is like an accepted form of a pressure from college and then a pressure from the NFL so that's it's really like very I think those even more than the grades are what's really been so instrumental. I think just generally being able to put everything on a standardized universal system across all, like it's huge.

You know, so many fans will sort of come at you with this kind of stuff. It's like, well, I watch every snap of this guy and I think you're wrong about where you have him ranked or where you have him rated. Like, okay, where does that rank compared to everybody else? Like maybe the league level at that position or that spot is a lot better or worse than you think it is. You know, you have to have the context of everything else. Even if you disagree with the exact methodology and how it's all put together, the fact that it's all done the same. And, you know, we put all this time and man hours and double blind

systems across the board to make sure that it's as standardized as possible. Like that in and of itself has some value. Well, that's why the good teams actually can use it as like an arbitrage, right? If you're the league standard, then the team can find the undervalued stock for their system, right? So I think that, I think that that's like, if they have one system and they know every league, every team in the league's looking at, you know, this is the number or this is the, this is the whatever. On our team, we believe that number can be X percent higher because we play, you know, with, we have this linebacker, you know, something like that, right? So Dan, Dan was cool with this discussion until you said arbitrage.

Arbitrage. Then it really, then it was like a little too much. We lost it. Just like, you know, just think it's like you get the better thing. You get something for nothing. A little extra. It's actually arbitrae, but, you know. Right. It's like when they give you the guacamole at Jopoli and forget to charge you, kind of like that. Right. By the way, I like to imagine Collinsworth just kind of rolling into the office in his pajamas with a cup of coffee at a random time in Cincinnati just to keep everyone sharp. Or is he kind of like, and I know maybe it's all a remote type gig because everyone's all

over the world here, but is he like a Lumberg type that will kind of just like head you off at the exit at 5 p.m. on a Friday in the middle of June and like, I need you to do some PFF, TPS reports this weekend? Definitely. What kind of boss is he? I haven't seen the pajamas thing. You know, that hasn't been. He'll roll in there with, you know, one of those kind of airport travel briefcases,

the things on wheels with the, like, sick foot long handle that he bags behind them. So he'll be pulling one of those with the laptops and the iPads and all screens that he's got with him, you know, rocking the summer casual, you know, the khaki shorts and the polos. But, yeah, you can definitely catch some. you know, wayward flack if you just happen to be in the vicinity at the time when he wants a question answer, you know? Because if you don't have the answer off the top of your head, it's now your job to go find that answer. So that can definitely happen. You got to keep right. And in all seriousness, I mean, Collinsworth, obviously, he has one of the top media jobs

in football, Sunday night football. He watches, obviously, a ton of games. Is he, is there ever a situation without calling anyone out specifically where Collinsworth is covering a game? And then he goes and he checks his website and the gray doesn't match with what he saw and then he's upset about it. Do people catch heat if they're not on the Collinsworth scale of what you guys do in terms of measuring play? It's never, we've never been in trouble for it, but there's definitely times where we've had to explain that discrepancy. It's like, well, explain to me why this guy's great is whatever it is when I'm seeing this. And, you know, a lot of the times there's, there's reasons, right? There are things that either you're not paying attention to or there's

like again sort of the idea documenting all is important because I think the brain functions as like a highlight real system and you remember the good you remember the bad and you toss out everything in the middle but everything in the middle actually makes up like 80% of a guy's game right so if you're just throwing all that out as the same it isn't like it's various gradations of either side of zero a little bit and that's where the difference is so a lot of the times stuff like that is you're remembering a few big plays and you're sort of not remembering the incremental little bit. Not like this whole show about Evan Mathis again, but I think that's one of the reasons why we were so different on Evan Mathis to everybody else because he didn't have a ton of those highlight reel blocks. He was playing at about the same time as Carl Knicks for the Saints. And Carl Knicks was like a walking highlight reel machine. That guy would just pancake defenders left right and center and bury them.

Like his highlight reel would have been phenomenal for offensive linemen. But Carl Nick's got beat. more often than Evan Mathis. And Evan Mathis, his thing was he just never lost. Now, he didn't always bear a dude and he can five yards off line and, you know, open up this giant yawning chasm for the running back to go through. But he was consistently winning a little bit every single snap, you know, just moving his guy enough to give the running back a crease. And that's all you need. And if you do that 60 times a game, you're coming up with a really good grade. So in your PFF 50 here, and I'm going to quote your blurb as we get into it.

it now. Because it's a bit of a humble brag open by Monson in the biggest of all spots with a lot of metrics, a lot of clicks. One of the benefits of watching and grading every player on every play of the NFL season is the unrivaled ability to compare players with the help of the largest football database on the planet. Whoa. And with that said, how do you not have Patrick Mahomes is the greatest player on the planet? Because you have Aaron Donald, number one, and Pat Mahomes number two. and we're going to dig in, and I know Greg has some, he wants to call out, and Cynthia and I will, but just how does Aaron Donald, how is he the greatest player alive right now? So I think everybody pretty much, I saw ESP and had a guy that ranked Aaron Donald fourth

among interior defenders, so almost everybody acknowledges that Aaron Donald is the best player at his position in the NFL, and Patrick Holmes is the best player in his position in the NFL. So the question essentially is, well, how do you compare those two positions? They're completely different. one of the things the PFF 50 does and most PFF lists is we get rid of position value, right? Because if position value was relevant here, the first 25 players would be quarterbacks. And frankly, that doesn't make for a great list. So position value is gone. You can be top of this list if you're a guard, if you're a defensive tackle, if you're a

quarterback. It's all the same. So now you're like, well, how do you kind of quantify relatively how much better than the rest of the league those guys are? And I think, that's where Aaron Donald separates himself because in any given year, Patrick Mahomes might not be the best quarterback in the NFL. Aaron, or Aaron Rogers was the best quarterback in the NFL last year when MVP, the year before that, Lamar Jackson was a unanimous MVP. So Mahomes might not be that guy any given year. And if he is, the gap between him and the next guys, it's not huge. Aaron Donald, there's like, it's never a discussion. Aaron Donald is the best player in his position in the league. There's a huge gap between him and number two,

and it hasn't been a discussion for what, like five, six years now. So the gap between Donald and anybody else at his position, I think is just so huge that that has to be relevant in terms of just how good a guy is and whether he's the best player in the NFL or not. Like, I get throwing out positional value. You got to do that somewhat, but there is still something weird about seeing like five running backs in your top 40 or like three in your top 30 and you have derrick henry who's not really a huge weapon on passing downs number 12 you know you've got mccaffrey up there in the top 30 chubb somewhere in there camero was in there dalvin cook was 26 i mean it has to give you like high it's to be ranking a bunch of running backs that high when all you do is talk about

how fungible running backs are i i have a huge degree of sympathy for running backs generally because that is one of the most like attritional abuse physically difficult demanding taxing positions in all football and it just so happens that all of the numbers say that it doesn't really matter who the guy is getting the garries like you can you're a product of the environment more than you are on a late june list and you think that makes up for it not even throw him a bone just like acknowledge that what they're doing like when when running backs complain about the running backs don't matter thing they're right like it's it's a brutal position they're all incredibly talented there's some of the most spectacular athletes playing the game it just so happens

that like the thing that will determine the most whether or not you're having success is not you it's not you versus your backup versus a guy you can get off the street it's how good is your offensive line it's what kind of formations are your is your offense turning out in because that's going to dictate the box count which is going to dictate how how much success you have. Like, it's just this sad irony. Are you saying Henry, kind of Henry, if he's number 12 and the other guys that are in the top 30, putting them there to me has to be saying that they rise above that, they rise above the other factors, right? I think for Henry in particular, we're now going on a couple of years

of him statistically, dramatically outperforming what should be possible, given what we know from, you know, all the stuff that we just talked about. Derek Henning is not a bad offensive line in front of them, but he certainly hasn't had an offensive line that has produced, that should have produced what he's been producing. And, you know, there are not that many players where we can think of specific games where it hasn't been going great, and then Derek Henry just took over and, you know, won the Titans the game.

So I think Derek Henry, right in the day, is saying that running backs generally don't matter, Derek Henry might. like Derek Henry is bucking that data trend and has been for a long enough time now that it's at least notable. I think it has like something to do with supply and demand to over time, not necessarily the one-to-one like your replacement versus you, but I think that if you look like this list is for next season, it's a projection of the top 50 players for this particular season. If you were to make this list out for five seasons and try to forecast it out in some way,

you might have running backs on there, but it probably wouldn't always be the same one or they probably wouldn't be in the same position, right? So it's not necessarily that each, that the running back, like each individual running back isn't helpful or in a specific season, very impactful. But it's that over time, like, look, like you had some pretty good running backs come out of this year's draft class. And I guess Najee Harris is a first rounder, but like you got, Giovante Williams is getting a lot of talk about him and they got him pretty late. So it's, at the end of the day, it's less about like an individual being replaceable and more about kind of the trend of the position and all the other factors. That's kind of how I read it, at least. Yeah, I mean, I think a big part of the running backs don't matter. The running backs are a replayable thing is that a lot of it is like there's a lot of talented running backs.

Once any running back in the NFL is an incredibly talented athlete and player and part of their problem is that the drop off between, you know, the top 10 guys in the NFL and the guys that are struggling just to make rosters is not big. Like it feels like it should be, but I think it's closer than a lot of other positions. And part of the reason they're that replaceable is because you can just go to the bargain bin and grab these guys that were incredible college running backs and are still fantastic athletes and playmakers and it doesn't have that big a drop off. And so it's not necessarily a knock on the athlete the position. It is part of that supply. There's an abundance of running backs that can all do a similar job. I'm looking at the list, and I was trying to figure out in my mind, who's a guy in the top, outside the top 10, who I could see kind of making that leap. And you have Miles Garrett at 25. I could see him being a guy because the data that you pulled from grading every play, obviously it's connected to every snap. And he was not the same guy after he got sick. I wonder where he's in this list if he was the same Miles Garrett.

leading in after week 10, as he was in the first 10 weeks. I could see him being the guy that ends up maybe cracking the top five even. Is there somebody that jumps out to you that you could see making a leap based on what they gave you last year? Yeah, I think Garrett is definitely a good one. I'm actually going to be writing an article tomorrow about, look, if Miles Garrett puts it together for a full 17 game schedule now, he's a defensive player of the year candidate. He's the one guy or one of a few guys that could rival Aaron Donald. on that particular award and it feels like that's happened already but if you look at his career we

haven't really seen that yet we had half a season of that and then he you know brain mason rudolph with his own helmet and missed half the year and then we got another half a season of it and then caught covid and you're right wasn't quite the same guy so we haven't yet had this full season of garrett in full flow the peak of his hours but it feels like we're right on the edge of that like maybe 2021 is that year where we get the full unadulterated full version of Miles Garrett and I think that player is special and is a top 10 talent. I think, you know, Nick Bosa is the guy. It's crazy that we've still only seen rookie Nick Bosa. You know, we really haven't seen what that was going to look like in year two. We lasted, what, 40-something snaps and then got injured.

Nick Bosa broke the rookie record for pressures in the season, which had stood until, since 2011. That was Alden Smith's record that he broke. So that was a longstanding number. And he didn't just break it. He like blew past it by a ton of pressures. I think ended with 80 on the season and was still cooking in the Super Bowl. Like the time way past the rookie wall that these guys are supposed to hit. Nick Bose, I think, had 12 pressures on Patrick Mahomes in that Super Bowl and was one of the best players on the field. So like Nick, Chase Young is the best edge rusher prospect we've ever seen come into the NFL and he looks like he could be special but nick bosa was like right there with him i mean his college production is right there race young he was a tremendously special talent

and rookie new bosa was phenomenal so i could easily see him take a step this year and and like cementing himself was one of the best uh players and edge rushes in the afl did you get a lot of grief for having brady seventh actually no i there wasn't an awful lot of back on on brady I think people were more, people were drawn to other, either omissions or, you know, projections football. Yeah. I mean, it is, it is ridiculous. He's the number two quarterback on this list.

He's 43 years old. Yeah. Dan was talking about hashtag gradual decline literally like six seasons ago now. This is the whatever running bit that I bring this up at the end of his Patriots run. I stand by it. I get it. But you said that before one of his is like last MVP season. Greg, that's not.

If you keep saying it eventually, you'll be right. Right. That's what we thought. And it is crazy, though, that credibly, I almost think his buck season got a little underrated because he had a couple interceptions, you know, in one of the playoff games. And so people want to bring, you know, in the championship and want to bring that up. Whereas, no, he really was one of the top two or three quarterbacks for the last nine or ten games. He didn't start the season that way.

But the way he finished, he was a top three quarterback at age 43, which is just so blowing past the, you know, level of anything we would even have considered was possible for a 40 or 41-year-old. Well, not just that, but you have to put it in the context of a quarterback in a Bruce Aryan system, right? The first year of quarterbacks in a Bruce Ariad system is almost always an absolute train wreck of turnovers, right? Andrew Luck, James Winston, Carson Palmer, those three guys each 40 turnover the plays in a season, their first year with Bruce Ariens. That isn't, like, it's a monster number. I think those are all the highest numbers we've ever seen from a quarterback over season. Brady.

Hold that thought one second, just because I'm curious. I'm who had the most turnover worthy plays since 2008? Is it Winston in the 30-30 year? I think that, well, that was one of his four, that was one of those 40 numbers. I think 40 is the highest we've seen over season, and all three of them have been the first year in a Bruce Aryan system. But Tom Brady, in his first year in a Bruce Aryan system, absent of any preseason had 12. So like a completely different scale.

It's just not what happens. And it's not like. But was it Brady in a Bruce Aryan system or was it Bruce Ariens in a Brady system? Well, I think they met in the middle, right? But this was definitely a more aggressive offense than Tom Brady has been in for a lot of years. Like his average depth of target was, you know, pretty far downfield compared to what Brady normally works with. eight point nine or sorry yeah where was tom brady nine point six so that's that's getting up there you saw it you would go entire halves of sure but you got better you had better receivers than he's

had in a long time in new england that ran deeper routes too so i'm just saying like i don't know if you tell to i don't know how much you like telling tom brady what to do anyone does you know what i mean like sure you want to do that great no when he's getting a house for five weeks like in the family's leaving then you're seeing who's wearing the pants even in that powerful household you're seeing but that that essentially was the highest average at the target of anybody in the NFL that actually played most of the season like the only guys ahead of him last year or joe flacco jalen hurts and then drew lock you know not great um and then drew lock who was a 10th of a yard uh higher so brady basically had we're just making but of hands it's just okay

i don't like i don't bring i don't talk about the 2020 jets the flaco jets like if i ever want to really annoyed Dan. Right. Bring up my Flacco versus Darnold, uh, Jets. Hey, listen, if Flacco was, if, uh, Donald was still in the building and flacco for that matter, it would bother me more, but we've moved forward. Finally, Sam, before we go, yes, it is. I did the Lamar Jackson cough move because I would say the biggest thing that got the,

the football cognizanty, buzzing was Lamar Jackson missing the top 50 year after he was, yes, the unanimous MVP. Now, the one thing that surprises me the most, because you wrote a nice little like a bonus piece that people should check out over at pff.com on players that missed the cut that are, you know, top players. And you kind of ended your write-up on Jackson saying that, you know, he was behind these six other quarterbacks. And spinning forward to 2021, you don't think that was necessarily an off year in 2020. He might just be in that 7 to 12 range, potentially, as opposed to one of the true grades of the league, which I know doesn't sit well

with a lot of people so soon after that incredible 2019. Yeah, but I think the step back that he took last year, I think, is important because the whole quarterback landscape is kind of volatile. You know, you're going to look at Aaron Rogers, right? Rogers, I don't know if he made the list last year. If he was, it certainly was nowhere near where he was this year. And the Green Bay Packers drafted his replacement. And it wasn't crazy.

Like, everyone was sort of going, well, yeah, Rogers had declined for a while now. hasn't been the same guy, but maybe drafting his replacement will spur this Aaron Roger's revenge tour. And that's exactly what happened is the best quarterback in the NFL. But before that, you were looking at this guy who was still really, really good, but was, you know, ranking 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th in the NFL, somewhere like that. I think everybody except Mahomes is in that bracket now, right? You're looking at these guys and you're saying, if he ranked number two or number eight in the NFL next year, it wouldn't surprise you. And I think you can throw, like, Deshaun, Watson, assuming he plays, Tom Brady, Josh Allen, you know, Russell Wilson. There's a whole

bunch of those guys, I think, that fit into that category. And Lamar Jackson is one of them. I think if he has an incredible year and the Ravens have figured out the answers to why the passing game fell off. And the guys like Bateman, Rashad Bateman, they're a number one. It's a huge impact. It wouldn't shock anybody. But equally, if they've just figured out a little bit, and Lamar Jackson is still an incredible athlete, is still one of the most devastating bull carriers in the NFL, but it's not the most complete polished passer in the NFL, and that's going to be the cap of how good that offense can be. Would that shock anybody? And if he ranks, you know, behind Deck Prescott and Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes, you don't have to, you know,

come up with that many names for him to rank behind before he doesn't make a list of the best 50 players in the NFL. Now, if it's the best 50 athletes, you know, in the NFL, Lamar is what, like one, two, three. He's somewhere in the top couple. But in terms of just actual player, he needs to be a better passer than he was last year. And we've seen that from him, but the projecting it forward is how likely is it that that is going to happen again in 2021? Now, I mean, I don't know. I think there's a reasonable case to be made. The one point I would also make, though, is that my hands were tied by our quarterback rankings, which came out first, which makes the whole thing Bruce, Bruce Gradkowski's fault and not mine.

So that's the important thing. I don't know about that. I guess, yeah, I guess when people come at you and you're like, what, Bryce Callahan is 36? Hey, I love Bryce. Hey, I love Chris Callahan. And Lamar Jackson's not on this list. Then, oh, you can just go blame old Bruce and accounting. Bruce's fault.

I like Bryce Callahan. I was actually going to make sure and get that in there that I love that he made the list. So? Oh, it's top 50. There's a lot of players in the league. There's like 13-year players in league. Did he even play that much last year? It hurts, Greg, that he's out of the top 50.

You should know that, Sam. So before we go, Sam, and thank you for your time. Cynthia has something she wants to get off her chest. You have a lovely, a lilting Irish brogue, and some people want to hear more of it, Cynthia. I do. So we both do videos, these voice-over things. Sometimes it's brutal.

Like, I hold my iPhone. It's not the best. sometimes I'll admit but I want your accent in it sometimes like it dulls your accent I don't know if it's the music they put but you need to play up that accent we need to bring in more women there's so many women that watch football you know how much they'd like it better to watch those videos if you got ooh there's like this I'm gonna believe everything that man says it's wonderful it's this sounds very I'm telling you play that up the real problem is that living here is right eradicating my accent I it's it's not voluntary it's it's just a

I pick up and drop off accents depending on where I live. I've had like half a dozen ridiculous ones in my life. And moving over here is losing the Irish one. I can't stop it. Somebody, in PFF, we did this series of podcasts a couple of years ago that were history of PFF ones that talked to Neil Hornsby and got like the origin story at a PFF. And it's a different Sam on it. It's an Irish Sam. It doesn't exist anymore.

The accent is dead. And it's, I'm now somewhere over the middle. Atlantic coming even further over to the U.S. It's starting to worry me. That's the downside of living in Cincinnati. Like eventually everyone starts sounding like the Wessling brothers. That's what you're starting to sound like. I'm a midwesterner.

I'm a midwesterner. I used to say pop. It was a thing. But no, bring the Irish back. I'm going to give you some like tapes to listen to before you do it because I'm like, I want his accent back. Give me the accent. I did like the way you put it though, Sam,

because sometimes I feel like that's what our podcast is, just like floats somewhere over the mid-Atlantic existing partly in this world, partly in another world. So you are a natural fit for our show. And we thank you so much for coming on, buddy, and check out Sam's work on PFF. Check them out on Twitter at PFF underscore Sam. And keep up the good work, my friend. Thanks, guys.

Thanks for having me. Thanks. There he goes. You know, I have, I know what he's talking about. too, because I grew up in the suburbs outside New York City. My father has a very, and people know from this podcast, he has a real strong Bronx accent, and my mother is from Queens and all my family that I grew up around, grew up in the cities.

And even if you grew up in the suburbs, it's a very strong New York accent. And I do find that it has maybe gotten toned down from 11 or 12 years in California. And then I'm back here and I'm throwing bags and I'm on my seventh Tito's at 1 a.m. down here at the Jersey Shore, all of a sudden, you know, I start to hit talk a little bit or something I gave Wes a lot of humor when I was talking about an ex-girlfriend in my life who had moved on. And I said, Kara got married. That really gave him a, he got a kick out of that. And he said, what did you just say? I said, Kara got married. Who? Kara. Apparently there's something. I'm glad mine's got. Mom, can we go to the cottage? I need to pop. Like, Midwestern accents are awful. So I'm glad mine's smoothed out. I mean, Boston took it away. I haven't lived in Michigan. I don't know what's going on with Greg.

Ever because like Greg grew up in New England and that is famously. And then this sounds negative, but a harsh accent. Western mass is like its own little farmland. It's flat. When I lived in New Orleans, though, I did find myself talking slower. It's not like I put on an accent, but if you just. Fake southern accent. If you just slow down how fast you talk by 50%.

Well, that was, that was all the, uh, Cizirp you were drinking down there at a styrofoam cook. I didn't know what Cisorpe was to like two weeks ago. I googled it. That was good. Sam's really good. That was a good talk. And if you haven't checked out that top 50,

it's great, great summertime reading. Even if you don't agree with the PFF stuff, and that was, Wes is coming up a lot in today's show, and that's always a good thing. Wes used to be very vocal about certain disagreements he had with how they went about their grading system.

But it's just, I think the league is more fun when you have these grades, especially, as he said, for like interior alignment and really anybody on defense, honestly. I mean, the offense, you have those counting stats that make it easier for the quarterbacks, running backs, and the wide receiver than tight ends. But I feel like that's where it's helped me as like a football fan the most when you can kind of know more about somebody in the secondary or someone in the front seven. And obviously the offensive line, which to me is like the most guarded mission. in all of professional sports like how is it actually played who's good who's not so much technical knowledge is necessary so even if people don't always agree with them it's good to see that they have this dedicated team putting in the work in colonsworth as kind of the face of it gives them a lot of gravitas i'm having a flashback to an episode where we where we did have

someone from pff on i'm not sure who it was like four years ago and west just like wanted to grill him about like ben hartsock being their number one It almost got a little awkward. It was probably like 2014, 2050. Yeah, I remember that. I have vague memories of that. All right. Good stuff.

Cynthia, you've said it all. I mean, all that. And I'm glad I got it off my chest about the supercomputer. I think hardware is important, not just software, and it's, it's important to have the big piece of machinery. And even if there's a tallow inside, almost like a TV prop, if you just had that and then you had that in the background when you did your TV hits and it's lit in a certain way that's imposing, I'm telling you, your career's on fire, Cynthia right now, but you'd be the biggest name in sports media if you just have a prop supercomputer in the background in 2021.

I'll call it the Hansus 5,000. You know, you know what's actually like really interesting. So I wear, I don't need glasses, but I wear them for the UV filter for my, because I look at a screen for a really long time. And not even kidding, like starting off any of my career, people were like, can you wear your glasses more. It makes you look smarter. A lot of people, a lot of people do that move, though. Sometimes Greg shows up with the glasses on

and it's like, yeah, we know what he's done. I would wear him even more if I wasn't so sunny outside all the time. Feels good. All right. Thank you, Cynthia. Enjoy Montana and the lake, which as I understand is very large. I believe that was the data point you had on it.

Big lake, big sky. all the things are big here in montana enjoy it i will enjoy my final day here on the shore with the family Greg i will um i won't see you in l.A but we'll be back in the same city uh very soon and that that will that will feel like that will be very nice together you know we we should have an around the NFL preseason before the season summit when mark is back and ricky we can coordinate it off the audience should know yeah well the audience also know that you know it's only your second appearance, Cynthia. I don't know if you're making this. Before the show started, Cynthia mentioned that she had gotten together with someone that

works in the league and that person went out of their way to say that they were friends with Greg. And then Cynthia was like, oh, yeah, he said he's friends with you. And then Greg, like, went out of his way when I asked, oh, you guys like personal friends. He's like, oh, yeah, I'm closer to him than I am to you and Mark. That's not what I said. I was, that is such a Greg answer. So unnecessary to put it that way. To rank things, yes. No, that's not what I meant. He was saying do you do you ever like talk on a personal basis i was just saying like yes probably probably so more just like you know on the i i don't talk with many people on the phone in my life very few i would say that's one oh you guys just talking the phone but you sometimes you call on the phone

occasionally occasionally how that's like really old school that's pretty occasional but still even any because you got a tight circle you you you've said you it's not like you have a like you're you're a very you're gregarious guy and if you're in the right mood but you're you're you're You don't have, like, a huge friendship group, I would say. It's pretty tight. And Mark and I hope to be in it one day. I guess that's all I could say. Maybe.

Maybe. There's a bad. What's wrong with me? How many regrets? We've been through a lot, Craig. You know that. We have. We're closer than, you know, some rando that's in the industry.

That, I mean, we just, just the time. Just think about the time we've spent on air together, like on this podcast. For real. What? I mean, I never feel more. That doesn't count. You can't be like, hey, we've done a lot of shows together, man. Like, we've traveled like the world.

On some level, it does count, though. Hey, we both been getting paid by a company at the same time, a lot. It's like some of the most meaningful, well, certainly the most meaningful work experiences we, I think we've both bad. Cynthia has her head down texting. Yeah, she's totally out. I was. It is family business. You're right.

No, I just got. This is an un-known. necessarily. Random German website keeps tweeting at me, and I don't know what they're saying. It's why I get to learn German, I guess. All right. That's it. Thank you, Cynthia.

We love you. Stan Heads is signing off for the old boss, Ricky Hollywood, and Sam Monson, the Lifting Irish Brog. Until, I don't know. Eat the call. Next week. No, Joe Montagnia was not in the rat pack. What are you talking about?

Wait, isn't that? Oh, the film. Oh, my God. That's the guy who's married to the lady. I really. Who's the final number of the rat pack? Joe Montanga? I don't know.

It's as good as I don't know. Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Jr., Peter Lawford, and Joey Bishop. Joey Bishop was sent packing because he fell out with Sinatra. You can't do. You send rat packing. Hey, everybody. Hey, I'm sorry. Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies

to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast.

Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. This is an IHeart podcast.