NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Trade Deadline, more like Dudline

Episode Date: October 29, 2019

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news around the NFL including all the trade DUDLINE action (3:57), Andy Dalton's benching (25:29) and the Chargers firing Ken Whisenhunt (36:59). Stick around for a MNF matchup recap where the Dolphins lost again (44:27) and a TNF preview between the 49ers and Cardinals (51:36)Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. Loves baseball. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by the United States Marine Corps. My name is Dan Hansis. I'm joined in a room filled with some heroes. Chris Wessling to my left. Greg Rosenthal to my right. What is up boys?

Hey Dan. A little three-man weave today. Mark Sessler back in the infirmary. So hopefully get him back on Thursday. Well, he wouldn't have appreciated that money drop anyway. No, that was teed up for him to make some type of dig about the length of the baseball season. Which could end tonight. And I bet it no matter what happens tonight in baseball, I'll have a little more sizzle to it than this trade deadline. Trade deadline Tuesday. Yes, we waited it out until it was clear. And yeah, in a year where there were 20 trades since week one.

103 trades in 2019 overall before. Hubba, hubba. That 20 trades since week one is up from 11 last year. And, you know, we had a couple big trades yesterday with a Jets Giants trade for the first time ever. a notable running back on the move. You thought that some big monster happenings would go down in the final hour leading to the deadline with some big names. It just never happened that way.

So maybe not as an explosive a trade deadline, but still more fun than it used to be. Yeah, I get the people who are upset, but I remember the days when, like, Will Witherspoon, a random linebacker was the biggest trade of the week, or Jonathan Casillas going to the Patriots. Right, we'll get to it. But the players that weren't traded were also very interesting, it was interesting just to hear who is floated, who's trying to get rid of things.

I think if the NFL really wanted to, and Kevin Patcher, our old friend coming at you, you know, pointed this out, they would have to move. If they really wanted the trade deadline to sizzle, you'd push it back a little bit. And they have pushed it back, but push it back even a little bit more. And the compensatory pick formula is really what's holding it down. So let's say Robbie Anderson, for instance. A guy in the Jets really don't have much use for. I don't think they want to keep them next year. They'd be happy to trade them.

But they're only going to get a fourth round pick for them. Here's a starter. They're going to get a third round pick in 2021 in the compensatory pick formula. So it just doesn't like make sense. Like why do it? And I think that's preventing some of these trades. But what the reason that that policy is in effect. Yeah.

Is to protect teams that lose their assets against their own will, right? So it's not something we want to get rid of, right? It's also something people. and people only use as an excuse sometimes. If they want to make a trade, they'll make a trade. Leonard Williams was part of that, and he got traded. I've never thought about it, but I think there is an argument that you could reduce the impact of all the compensatory picks at this point. It was made in a very different structure of the NFL where players really weren't changing teams,

and teams were so overprotected in terms of keeping all their great players, and that's fine, but maybe they want to be a little more like baseball and basketball and embrace players leaving teams. It's happening anyways. All right. So we have a lot to get to. Coming up to today's show, we have, yes, the standard fair, the Monday night football recap. We have the Thursday night football preview, week nine. But we're going to dig in on other news, and there's some big news around the league,

including a, I believe, seven-year starter whose rain is coming to an end for his, I believe, it's the Midwest that he plays in a football team. We'll get to that. We have a Super Bowl MVP that is heading to the sideline. Is it an injury or is it a benching? Drums. A firing of an O.C. The kicker corner, the club is going off. But first, let's get to the trade deadline news. All right. So what did happen? Let's start with the New York Jets, who were the team that was most in the news, both yesterday because they made a trade, but today because of the names that were floated, Levyon Bell, reported by the Daily News, was being shopped, never happened.

Jamal Adams, reported by ESPN and then confirmed elsewhere was on the move, potentially. The Cowboys were very interested. Didn't happen, and we'll get into that in a bit. But let's start with what did happen. Leonard Williams, their former first round pick. of 2015, a very solid defensive lineman that never really lived up to the hype, which was JJ Watt-esque at the time. He gets moved to the Giants for the first time ever. I kid you not. The Jets and Giants do a trade. So Williams doesn't have to move his house or his condo

or whatever. He stays in town in Jersey. The Jets get back a third round pick and a fifth round pick for Williams, which feels like good compensation, considering Lennar Williams is headed toward free agency and is also a guy that production-wise has not really popped and flourished the way people thought he would. Wes, after the trade, as seems to happen every time the Giants make a sizey move in this league, people scratching their heads and asking if Dave Gettelman knows what he's doing. Yeah, this whole run the ball and defend the run philosophy, he's got going and the Hog Mollies, which he, you know, his philosophy, going back to his Carolina Panthers days, I guess it's the fact that Leonard Williams is a free agent after this season,

and he's going to a team clearly in rebuild that has people wondering what the hell was going on. I don't hate it for the Giants. I think the, I like it for the Jets. You know, it's kind of a no-brainer. I'm sure in their dreams they would have gotten slightly more, he didn't have that sort of value because of what you said, Dan, that he's been a little disappointing and he's entering free agency. So they took the best offer they could.

They got some value for him. Good for the Jets. I don't mind it for the Giants because they're getting him for eight games and you wouldn't do it unless you had a strong interest, I believe, in resigning him. And they get to see how he fits and maybe they can unlock some of that potential that all these draft experts thought was can't miss difference maker, quality starter at the very worst.

And here's all they gave up. if he does leave is a third and a fifth, and they probably get a third round pick in 2021 back in terms of the compensatory pick formula. So it's just a fifth to try him out. Now, I think in Gettelman's heart, he wants to pay Lenny, and he loves him. And he wants Leonard Williams to play great the next eight weeks.

And I think it's fair to question whether they need them. They have Dalvin Tomlinson and Dexter Lawrence and BJ Hill. But Leonard Williams is maybe in his mind, better pass register. And so you're not giving up much to try what, it's hard to get premium talent and maybe Leonard Williams could still do it. He's 25 years old. Yeah, that's the thing. Where does he play? Like you said, they already have three guys. I think that's another reason why people are like, why did you make this trade? He's playing defensive end and a three four and he's starting and, you know. And so who gets benched? One of the other three guys that they kept telling

us was great? Well, B.J. Hill's really more on the interior. Yeah, and you're rotating. It's defensive line. It is strange. Is he a guy that you want to give $16 million a year or whatever he's going to cost? That's probably the bigger question. I don't mind the trade because I think it was fairly low stakes for the Giants. I feel like if I, from the Giants side and Giants fans and I'm friends with a lot of Giants fans that are asking the questions that a lot of people are asking, Leonard Williams really is, he could be a disruptor. He just has not piled up the numbers, but the Jets never did a good job. And this has become its own cliche. The Jets haven't had a real pass rusher since John Abraham in 2005.

Well, that's true. And maybe if you actually had an edge presence that would unlock Leonard Williams. However, that was not what you were supposed to be getting from Leonard Williams. You were supposed to be getting a guy that was a self-contained nightmare that would blow up the opposition game plans. And it just never happened. And the Jets were patient and waited and waited. And we know Todd Bowles, not a great head coach, but he had him for multiple years and couldn't

get the best out of him. Greg Williams spoke highly of him this summer Couldn't get the best out of him Perhaps the Giants do But I think he might be just another guy Right he seems like a slight An above average starter though Which costs a lot of money

On the free agency market So it's not what you hope to get with the number six Pick overall in the draft above average starter You hope to get a Hall of Famer Absolutely all right And so yeah I mentioned it Jamal Adams this report Comes out a couple hours before the deadline

That the Jets have made him available and shortly after that the Cowboys emerge as the team that they would do business with potentially and I saw a report and I wish I could say who it came from but that the Cowboys were willing to offer a first

but the Jets wanted more it was also said there was another report that the Ravens got in the mix and they were interested that was Shefter. Okay a little Jamal Adams Earl Thomas tag team interesting but obviously that didn't have happened because where we are now, and it's now 31 minutes after the trade deadline, we haven't heard anything about Adams moving. So he stays put. And there were a lot of questions, Greg,

about this as well. Why would the Jets even think about moving Jamal Adams? But from what I've been following and certain beatwriters that you learn to trust. Rich Samini, right? Rich Samini has been dropping breadcrumbs for weeks that there's been a change to Jamal Adams this season. And this guy came into the league. This is his third season. He's no nothing but punishing losing, embarrassing losing. And he's an exuberant guy. And it's, there was some, you know, what happened that Monday night football game against the Browns where they benched him. And that was embarrassing and a hit to his pride. He just perhaps is a situation where he wanted a fresh start. Ryan Clark, former NFL player who now is with ESPN, said he had spoken to Jamal

Adams, who said that he wanted to go home to Texas and played for the Cowboys. So maybe even if this trade doesn't happen, that Jamal Adams, who is picked by the Mike McCagin regime, will be moved eventually maybe in the offseason. But from my standpoint, I'm hoping this allows cooler heads to prevail because the Jets have a hell of a rebuild in front of them. Jamal Adams is a guy you want in your building to be part of that. Right. I mean, you're not going to get better trading away your great players.

It's so hard to find them. even your good players and Jamal Adams I think is a step above that it is fascinating that the Cowboys were willing to give up a first that's been confirmed locally but it sounds like the Jets were holding out for two

I don't blame anyone here I don't blame Jamal Adams for not really publicly but having some frustration with the Jets I don't blame the Jets for seeing for shooting for the moon but not dealing him because I think that's what it should take to get a player

like Jamal Adams and the Cowboys and the Cowboys boys, that's a lot. It's a lot to give up. You're asking a guy to learn your system in the middle of the year. That's a big swing. I think cooler heads did prevail. I just don't think there's any reason to trade Jamal Adams in the off season either. If I'm a Jets fan, I want that coaching staff out of here. Don't get rid of my good players. Get rid of the coaches who have not proven to be great coaches. Well, and we heard, so we heard Levyon Bell was available today. That was reported. Not a nibble. Not a nibble. And this is why, and I don't want to keep up.

filing on. But this is why we were so hard on the Jets when they fired McCagnan. Not for firing McCagin, but the timing. That owners, if there's one thing NFL owners, I feel like, should have learned over the last 20 years. It's just like the one thing you got to do is just have your coach and your GM aligned and have them together, whether they're hired together or one helps the hiring or the other. Whatever it is, have that all work, because this is what happens. Then Gase and Joe Douglas didn't want Bell. They just signed Bell. Who knows about Mosley?

Or they don't like that contract. And that's why. But that starts back at the ownership level that the process leading into it didn't make sense. And it's too bad because I think Levy and Bell's still a good player. He just paid a lot of money. There's a jettiness to the whole thing too. Because there is a scenario and a reality where the Jets are actually a halfway decent team this year,

as many of us thought they would be and they're in contention for the wild card and then in the off season Joe Douglas gets to start to massage the roster but with the Jets it always seems to go

whatever the worst case scenario was which is in this case the season goes down the toilet every move has not worked out and the biggest potential worst case scenario is exactly how it's played out

Jamal Adams is the golden boy and if I was a Jets fan my number one I guess it would be my number one concern going into the year is don't ruin Jual Alams he's pure He's a leader.

Sam Darnold. Even on a... Both, maybe. Yeah, but we haven't... I mean, he was out for a month, so we don't even know what's going on it. But Jamal Adams, the leadership he showed before this year

on a bad team last year, playing 100% every week in leading by example. Don't ruin that guy. That's all I want. He tweeted actually shortly before the deadline. It's in God's hands now. And I...

It's a little exclusive from the old Zeus. We have God on the line. God, are you there? Yes. It's me. God. This message is for Jamal. How's life? Like your ability, I gave that to you. Personality? It's great. You're welcome. To answer your question, I put you on this earth. To save the Jets, that is God's plan. Longtime listener, first time caller. I'll hang up and listen. Oh, I wanted a chance to ask God a question in the press conference.

Yeah, he's off. I wanted to know if hiring Greg Williams was part of God's plan. Can we get him back on? Try to get him back. I don't know if he has a number, but yeah. Yeah, I don't know about that. What's that, Wes? Was hiring Greg Williams part of your plan?

I work in mysterious ways, Wes. Fair enough. If this is open for questions, I've got one. Sorry about the cancer. So what's up with that CBS show? You know, it's not a more efficient way to do things than friending people? I will send you to hell sex. That is my favorite program.

I like the one with the fat guy and the other lady finding love. Bob Hart's al-Bashola. Goodbye. Well, that's an exclusive. That's the old Zusser. That's getting the scoop. Who knew? All right.

Robbie Anderson stays put two. All right. Let's see what else is going on. Akeeb Taleb. This one's weird. Well, not weird. It's one of those things that NFL junkies like a Rosenthal, they lap it up. The Rams send Akeeb-Talib, their veteran quarterback, who's on IR, and a fifth-round pick to the Dolphins in exchange for a late-round future draft pick. ESPN had this first. Greg, tell me the business behind this move.

They're just buying a fifth-round draft pick the Dolphins are, essentially. It's a salary dump. And I wondered if the Rams were, you know, there was a second move to come, but there wasn't. It seems awfully expensive to me. So he has $4.2 million left on his contract. The dolphins are going to pay all of that. And all they get out of it is a fifth round pick. As Charlie Castellee pointed out, 20% of fifth round picks ever start for their team. Strange.

Right. Don't tell GMs this, but the draft is only four rounds long. Right. Usually, yeah. And even the Rams are getting another pick back. Now, maybe they, Talib gets thrown into their compensatory pick formula because he's a free agent, so maybe you could get more, but he barely played this year. He's on Injured Reserve until mid-December and not likely to ever suit up for the Dolphins.

Right. Someone said they think he might end up on Brian Flores' coaching staff next year. So that's why he did the trade? I don't think that's why they did the trade, but maybe he would be- Because they were together in New England? Well, just and they're close, and I guess Talib does have an interest in it. But this is the Dolphins move. They've done the same thing with Robert Quinn and Ryan Tannahill, too.

Just sold them. So that trade happened today, Tuesday. On Monday, the Dolphins agreed to trade running back Kenyon Drake to the Cardinals in exchange for a conditional 2020 draft pick. This is a deal that was, you know, we saw it coming because Drake did not travel for Monday night football. And the Cardinals, Wes, are a team that has depth in that backfield. David Johnson is there. Chase Edmonds had a breakout week last week, but he just heard his hamstring. David Johnson is banged up. So it's a crowded backfield, but a banged up

one, Kenyon Drake enters the fray. Yeah, it's like a crowded backfield until late October, and then it becomes a vacant backfield so they need a running back. I was hoping to see Kenyon Drake go to the Lions who desperately need a running back. True. But in this case, good for the Cardinals, because it sounds like Chase Edmonds is going to be out a few weeks with the hamstring injury and David Johnson that back injury doesn't seem to be getting any better

I like the move for the Cardinals. Well, good for you and Lukisha, the Paramore who is making her Thursday night recap debut this week with Cardinals 49ers. Thanksgiving night, I mean, Halloween night.

Yeah, you are helping out the parents in this case, specifically me since it is my turn and my kids taking them out for Halloween. Who knows? I love Kenyon dress. Shouldn't you guys have to do

three Thursday nights in a row after Mark and I did the Redskins Vikings game? Would that only be fair? In general, I do... Maybe three years in a row? I do O-1. Yeah, I know. When I was watching that game at home with my kids,

I thought how you always say how I love every NFL game, and I was like, nope, not this one. I don't love this game. Wasn't it last year that Mark was like, oh, Halloween's fine with his kids? Remember you're getting a hard time? Thank you for bringing that. So he can do that.

And then I can go out. You wanted to stick a fork in Halloween? Yeah, for the West Hollywood parade, you know. This is my time to dress up as almost a 30-year-old, too, you know. That's true. Are you, what are you doing on Halloween? Well, they close down all of West Hollywood, and there's like half a million people that go, you know,

traips the streets there. But you're going to be editing the Thursday night recap. I'm going to have to figure that out, huh? You put that one on Eddie Spaghetti's plate. He's going to be at my apartment pre-gaming before that walk, so we're going to have to figure something out. So you guys are going to go out? Is there an intern or something?

You're going to come up, publish it, and then go back out. Yeah. That's basically it. Yeah, you need an intern. I know, I need a couple. What happened to Camelina? Missed that guy. Are you going to have any drinks in your system when you're editing this?

No, of course not. That was a test. Yeah, of course not. That was a test. Good answer. Of course not. Nor would judge you. No.

There are Shadow League figures. But yeah, shadowy league figures actually listen to this pod. I don't drink at all anyway, so. Well, you know that's not true. Okay. You're a real booze hound. That's not true either Another trade

Gennard Avery Yes I thought it was Ginnard Eagles acquired defensive end Gennard Avery from the Browns in exchange for a 2021

fourth round pick Avery is just in the second year of his rookie deal He had four and a half sacks as a rookie He was a fifth round pick So the Eagles add some a pass rushing depth, but I guess John Dorsey, and this is not the first time we've seen it in the last couple weeks, not afraid to cut ties with a draft pick he's not feeling.

Got good value with a fourth round pick. People thought how he was going to give up a lot. This guy had 42 pressures last year. They changed systems. This is the type of trade that should happen a little more. Sometimes guys get totally stuck in a bad situation. He was playing a ton and played well last year. wasn't playing at all this year.

They need some pass rush help. Watching Josh Allen stand back in the pocket last week has to be tough for the Eagles fans. He's a tweener. He's sort of a linebacker who's meant to be a pass rusher, but he's not built like a pass rusher, which made him have no home in the new defense. But like Greg said, look good last year.

Staying put. Who was rumored to move and didn't move other than those jets we talked about? Well, Chris Harris of the Broncos, that cornerback. That team's going nowhere, as we know. but the veteran cornerback, he does not get moved despite some rumors

that they would look to get something done. The big name left tackle Trent Williams, speaking of the Browns, I don't know if it was ever a real connection between the Browns and the Redskins on Trent Williams, but it made a lot of sense

because the Browns need something to stabilize that offense and perhaps a left tackle like Williams would be that. But Williams does not get traded and immediately after the trade deadline, he reports officially to the Redskins. So I guess he waited and waited and waited

and never wanted to play another snap for Washington, but he decided to get his career moving and I guess toll his free agency and do all the things he needs to do to get the hell out of Dodge. He had to report to the team. That's how I read that. Yeah, at Rapsheet, I believe, reported that the Redskins

were asking about cornerback Denzel Ward, which was a non-starter, never had any chance of happening. And then J.P. Finley of MPC said that one source said, on a Trent Williams move, the Redskins wouldn't take calls for months. So, quote, now nobody wants to bail them out. Hmm. Well, that makes sense, though.

The Redskins making these guys available at the last minute, especially Trent Williams, after saying no, no, no. They reportedly turned down a first round pick from the Patriots back in the day. And supposedly, there was a second round pick on the table. And it almost felt spiteful that they just wanted to keep Trent Williams. Now, knowing that he is showing up, maybe they had some information or thought that that was a strong possibility.

It was our very own, DeAngelo Hall, an NFL network. He's a colleague. I don't know if you talk to him a lot. It's beyond colleague at this point. Yeah, he broke the news. So I guess the Redskins won that stare down? I'm annoyed with that. They're going to trade him eventually.

He's still not a free agent until 2021. He'll be 33. Maybe he heard, and this would be fair, that teams wanted to see how he looked after a series. of pretty serious injuries, and that would help his value and help his chances to get a new contract with a new team. Yeah, play a little. It is weird, though. This whole, like, massaging, what do you think about, like, Levyon Bell and Jamal Adams showing up to work tomorrow? I thought about that, too. Nate Solder is another guy who sounds like they were shopping pretty

aggressively. Jack Rabbit Jenkins. Norris Jenkins, and it's kind of a new thing in the NFL that, okay, Nate Solder, it's like, we tried to deal you, but go back. It's just a strange situation for some of these players. I think it was Michael Scott who said, somebody said, Michael, it's not business, it's personal. And then he said business is personal. And you wonder, like, when these guys do come to work, when they were aggressively shopped, if it makes them even more

disenfranchised. Probably the Jets, that will be the case, exactly. You can't help but get your feelings hurt. And yeah, Michael Scott's right. Business is personal. He's always right. I'll never forgive, Ricky, for when she tried to trade me off this podcast. I thought that was ridiculous.

The way the like work structure. What was the... It didn't even make sense. What were the particulars of the trade? I think like to the, like for a subscription to the athletic or something like that, just kind of get dumb for it. Salary dumb, basically. You had as much value as Lev Bell on the market, according to Rick.

It was crickets. Two more interesting names. O.J. Howard did not get moved. It sound like the bucks wanted a lot for him. Move the quarterback. Keep the tight end. And Darius Slay, who the free press, Detroit Free Press, seems to think, is going to be gone one way or another in the off season, that he's priced himself out. They're not going to resign him to a long-term deal. I think his deal is up after next year.

So I think they just decided they're going to trade him in the offseason. According to the free press. Apparently they tried to get Chris Harris, too, but their offer was not good enough. In non-trade deadline news, today, Tuesday, October 29th, is Andy Dalton's 32nd birthday. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday. What?

He gone. Hey on. Andy. Dalton is being benched by the Cincinnati Bengals. Good job, Ricky. Rookie fourth round pick. Ryan Finley is taking over the 0-8 Cincinnati squad. Zach Taylor had this to say about the decision to move away from Dalton,

who has been the guy there since he was drafted in the second round back in 2011. And the hard thing now is when you're 0-8, and you make a quarterback switch, people tend to look at the quarterback and say he was the problem, and that's the furthest thing from the truth. He's done a lot of things to keep us going here, and he's invested a lot of time and effort and energy into getting us a win, and it hasn't happened. It's unfortunate because he's represented his franchise the right way over the last nine years, and he's been everything you would have asked in that regard. And so, again, not an easy day, not an easy conversation, but it was my decision.

End of an era. I mean, since this podcast has started, Andy Dalton has been... You know, a guy we look to for stability to tell us how the other quarterbacks in the league should be measured. But even two years before we started this podcast, he's been starting... I mean, 2011, as you guys may remember, what was he taking two picks ahead of Colin Kaepernick? That was a kind of, or two picks out, and it was a controversial thing that the Bengals were maybe going to take Kaepernick didn't happen. There's some roads. Jay Gruden wanted Andy Dalton.

Right. That was the true controversy around Colin Kaepernick in his career, I feel. Right. I mean, those are some roads diverging. I think it makes a lot of sense, though, because Ryan Finley looked good in the preseason. This is where the preseason does matter. Sometimes you can, as a rookie quarterback, especially, you can plant a little flag or put a bug in your coach's ear.

If you look that good, then you give your team an option when you're 0-1-8 and they're clearly ready to move on from Dalton next off season. And yet they're putting them in a position to fail. And I get that this. is part of the reason why they didn't want to trade AJ Green because they want to give him a real shot over eight games to see what he can do. But, you know, Andy Dalton's been playing

with a historically bad rushing attack. He's got a career backup guard playing left tackle. The center they drafted in 2018 is playing guard and got one of the worst grades I've ever seen at Pro Football Focus last game. His number one receiver's out. I mean, I don't know how it happened that I got stuck as the Andy Dalton defender in this room.

but does anybody really believe he's a worst quarterback now than he's been his entire career? He's in his athletic prime where his mind is catching up with his body. He's 32. This is when quarterbacks are hitting the stride in the NFL in 2019.

I think he's fine. He's the same guy. You're not alone. I've always been on board the Andy Dalton Express in terms of you could do a lot worse. If Mark was here,

he'd be crowing right now but yeah, I mean, this is what we've always talked about, right? And that stat that I think think Andrew Siciliano tweeted out before the London game that Dalton is now the first quarterback in the history of the NFL to start a season both 8-0, which was in 2015,

when he had a great offensive line and a really good set of skill players around him. And now 0-8 in 2019, when he has none of that. And he's just not, he'll never be the guy. He's the same guy. Yeah, he's never going to be, like you can put Deshaun Watson in this situation. I'm just throwing Watson out there. And I would say Cincinnati might have two or three wins. but Dalton is not that guy

and you could hold it against him if you want but I think he might have a good football left in him if he just ends up in a good spot hopefully he is with a better team next year right everyone connected thought well you know trade him to the bears he would help this bear's team I think he would have this year

I mean I think he could upgrade a team he has been sacked 29 times that's five more than he was his entire rookie season in 16 starts it's eight more than he was in the entire 2014 season in 16 starts he's also leading the league in completions and attempts.

Because they're just because they have the worst running game ever. I don't think he's... This is how you set a quarterback up to fail. Right. But I also don't see the harm. I think if you're going to be a good quarterback... Well, they're not going to... Your career's not going to be ruined because you're in a tough situation.

Look at all the... You've always said that. I just disagree with you. Because of all the great quarterbacks who are ruined by bad situation. But I don't think they would have been great quarterback. Like, even guys... But a lot of people who do this for a living think that that's Balderdash. So guys, like, you couldn't have had a worse situation than Alex Smith.

And he ended up being what Alex Smith was going to be. You could never have a worse situation than Eli Manning. And Eli Manning ended up being what Eli Manning was going to be. So that's anecdotal. And those aren't even... You pick and choose the guys you want and you like and you say they survive. We do that all the time. Yeah.

No, but you say because Eli Manning did it, then Tim Couch should have done it too. Well, he got hurt. That's fair. Maybe it's increasing a chance for Finley to get injured behind this offensive line. That would be the biggest concern. This is the best thing that has happened to Andy Dalton in years. So he doesn't end up blowing out his knee or getting his leg broken or having his elbow contorted in a way that leads to reconstructive surgery

on a terrible team that messes up his value going forward. You know, hopefully this kid does some things, stays in the lineup. That franchise has something to look forward to or think about, and Andy Dalton gets a fresh start. And I liked Finley in the preseason. I thought he was as impressive as any of the rookies. The only man that could bring you back to the Bengals. you carry that Finley flag.

No. I don't even think he has like, he has a below average arm for an NFL starter, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. But I do agree that this is a fine time to take a look at him, except for the fact that you're setting him up to fail with the surrounding talent. I know Baldor Dash is a popular board game,

but I've never seen it used in basic conversation. So kudos to West. And for those of you like me that wanted a definition, senseless talk or writing, semi-colon, nonsense. well done wes have he played the board game i don't know if maybe i played it i'm not sure i feel like it's the same game and it got rebranded as scatigories a couple years later okay that you know what that rings a bell joe flacco is out of the lineup in denver a day after he comes out and rips the broncos game plan in a week eight loss we learned that he has a neck

injury that is going to cost him time. He will not be playing in week nine against the Browns. It will be Brandon Allen, who was claimed off waivers on September 1st from the Rams who will start. Drew Locke, who is recovered the second round pick. You know, not only is Joe Flacco's neck injury sound ominous, you know, 35-year-old quarterback has discs slipping all over the place, also ominous is the second round pick who is now healthy.

and the quarterback whisper, laugh, laugh, ha ha, chuckle, chuckle, John Elway publicly stating, we're not ready to say whether we want him to play this season. Okay, sounds like a great situation right there. Anyway, so Brandon Allen starts, Flacco on the shelf. I didn't make much of this. I saw Flacco getting his neck worked on during that game, and then I saw him take an absolute punishing hit.

It was like the Leonard Marshall on Joe Montana hit from the 1990 playoffs. And I said, oh, his neck is probably in 14 different pieces. That's probably what did it. Greg, on the other hand, in the newsroom, throughout an alternate theory that this is all hokom to borrow. It's all balderdash. What, they sent him to Jalen Ramsey's doctors?

That the Broncos, I'm not saying this is what you're saying, but you could connect dots that. It's a quince that maybe not a coincidence that he buries the team on Sunday and is out of the lineup on Monday. Yeah, he buried the coaching staff and suddenly he's benched. He said he suffered the end. He first suffered the injury two weeks ago, and they played through it. Well, it's natural to be skeptical, right, considering the circumstances.

But Rapsheet said, do you have a- No, go ahead. Rapshit said that he's going to get a second opinion on his neck because the first one wasn't good. That tells me that he's legitimately injured. Could be out five to six weeks, according to Ravis. And that last hit of the game was absolutely brutal. It reminded me kind of a sports movie.

They always, like, go a little too hard. If you watch Friday Night Lights, every hit is the most vision that you've ever. like helicopters ever seen, but that's what that last hit for Joe Flacko looked like. I was watching that yesterday. So there's like nine seconds to play when he gets sacked. And the offensive linemen are staggering back to the line of scrimmage, trying to get one more desperation playoff. And I'm looking all over the screen looking for Joe Flacko.

I couldn't even find him. I think Flacco just walked to the locker room. I don't think he even tried to get back to the line. I could have easily missed him, but it didn't, on the condensed mode, a blink and you miss it scenario. I could not find Joe Flacko. I thought maybe he was blasted into hell by the hit. It was that type of shot.

I mean, they're starting Brandon Allen here. It's only October that they're making this move. I know Mark likes to look for teams to, you know, I would say are taking a dirt nap. But this feels like it's week 16 that Brandon Allen is starting for them already. And there might be no hope of Drew Locke even coming back. Speaking of Mark, I have a bit of a cessler. Maybe we've seen the last of Joe Flacco ever.

made a ton of money he's got his ring he's in decline Joe I like he's dabbled in acting a Johnny Unitas movie that never got off the ground maybe Joe Flacko he looked the part is one of those guys that doesn't hang on and walks away but I like just a Sessler people like rap sheet are saying he's couching his his words this could be the end of his Broncos career and Hansis is going one step further this could be the end of his NFL no triple sourcing here this is just well I reached out I reached out to Rapsheet, which I'll do. Trying to find the real story here and then just present it. Ever reveal your sources, Insider 101.

You know, well, it's fine. He says what's on or off the record. No response on this one. Sometimes you read between the lines. This was too hot for him. He didn't want to bury his own sir. He didn't reply to me. I was like, so are they just benched him because he talked about them?

So I need to know what your final stance on this. You still believe it's Hocum? No, I think there's enough evidence. I don't want to impugent. He's jacked up, but they're not going to miss him after that. No, I agree with that. They're ready to turn the page. And he'll end up on IR.

You'll see Brandon Allen for a start or two, and then you'll see Drew Locke. And come on, Drew Locke. Well, it's not his, he is not under control. But come on. Come on. Put him in the game. If you want to give it a couple of weeks and get him more practice reps, the idea that you might just keep him out of action until 2020?

Nobody's put even more heat on, uh, puts even more heat on Freddie Kitchen. years is this. You better go beat Brandon Allen on Sunday. Go in a ball game. You can't, Browns cannot go lose to Brandon Allen. That Browns game with Mark not here, I better,

I should get this in. We hear for a week how they're going to show up with a new mindset. I know it's the Patriots, but they have three consecutive turnovers at one point and commit like 47 penalties. That team's a mess. Got it out of my son. Get all of your Browns talk out now.

The only concern is that, Mark's wife, Simone, who listens to every show, could report that back to Mark. That's the concern. That's a danger. All right. The Chargers fire offensive coordinator, Ken Wisenhunt, after three years with the team.

This comes during a time when the Chargers are 3 and 5, ranked 17th in total offense, 23rd, and points per game. You know, they were great offense for stretches for most of last year, but it has not gotten going. And would Melvin Gordon, not to put too much on Melvin Gordon, but since he's returned, it's gotten even worse. In fact, they won with a little over 200 yards of total offense on Sunday,

and that was the first time that the Chargers had won with that amount of offense in like seven years. So they were very lucky, and they're making a change. I think the quarterback coach is taking over. Shane Stryken, is that his name? And Anthony Lynn taking, you know, a big part in it. I think just reading between lines, seems like there was some philosophical differences between Wizz and Hunt. Ego.

And Lynn, but the offense hasn't been as big a problem as a defense. They've been an average offense in terms of efficiency DVOA, and they've been one of the worst five or six defenses in the league. Their running game, which is what Anthony Lynn kind of cut his teeth in, he was a running backs coach. You know, fullback played the position too. They are the first team since the 1946 Detroit Lions, and the only team other than the card-pit card-stealers of 1944.

The carpets? The carpets. Are you aware of those? They had to combine teams during the war because they didn't have a player. And the Cardinals and the Steelers. The first team since then to rush for under 40 yards per game for four straight games, which happens to be when Melvin Gordon returned. I mean, that's crazy.

Also when Mike Pouncey got injured, their starting center. But, yeah, Melvin Gordon, again, playing like 2018 Leonard Fernette is not helping. I don't think it's crazy at all to wonder about Philip Rivers' future. I've been doing it. It's a lot of streets are talking. All season. He's a free agent. We need Dan to get more out of Matt Money Smith on this.

Wisenhunt and Rivers was... I'll say nothing. Rivers and Wizz and Hunt were very close. Rivers credited Wisenhunt with turning his career around in his first... I like where this is going. They're so close that Lynn kept Wisenhunt after Mike McCoy was fired, which is pretty rare. So Wizzenhunt's coached rivers for the Chargers in two different cities and three different head coaches. That's how close they are.

It just does make you wonder if maybe both sides or rivers specifically will, you know, push to get out. He's a free agent. A lot of that connecting going on. A lot of people saying that. Be weird. They're moving into a new stadium. They're a team to watch. I mean, he's right behind Eli at this point, though.

Come on. I think he's playing fine. He's not great. He's better than obviously. better now than Eli was before he left, but he doesn't have much time left. But he's a franchise legend. You know, he's one of the best, he's certainly the best, you know. What does that mean for the Chargers that would be a franchise legend? It's a fair point. I don't know if they're a nomadic team. That is a fair point. I mean, he's probably sick of making that commute up from

San Diego. I think he's making the worst, well, before Okun came back, he was making the worst tackle situation in the league look kind of just mediocre. Finally, let's head behind the velvet ropes you know I'll always get you guys into the kicker club Mike Nugent he acted on Sunday for the Patriots who knew he was done and he is done he was released by the Bell Checks replaced by Nick Falk

Hulk Hero I thought he was like one of those kicking analysts for CBS or something that's like the next Jay Feeley I had no idea he was still one of the You haven't heard his name pop up once and these traveling kick. You know, it's always the same guys working out. Yeah, the carnival's in town. You haven't heard anything about Fulb.

Well, he hasn't been in the league for two years. That's what I thought. Okay, I just checked, yeah. What the hell is going on here? He only played four games in 2017. So he last really played a season for your Jets in 20s. What could go wrong? And the Jets moved on because he couldn't kick anymore, Greg.

It's concerning. I like this. I love it. I like this. Your season's in a weird place when you're mad you missed out on Young Way Coo. I was like, darn, the Falcons stole Koo. I wanted that story. You did.

Young Way Koo goes to the Falcons who replace Matt Bryant, the 45-year-old. Keep that club music going. We're still banging out. Greg's got to get to a haircut, but we can't leave the club yet. Have you noticed, Wes? Greg keeps looking at his phone. Oh, yes. I'm not.

I got a two-and-a-half-minute voicemail, and I'm thinking, who leaves a two-and-a-half-minute voicemail? Is this serious? What is happening? Matt Bryan had a bad game for the Falcons. Everything else was it. Who left the ball? We're in the kicker club. I don't know.

It's a number I don't. It's too loud. Can't hear you. Matt Brian out Atlanta, Young Way, Ku, in. And my final thought before we leave the club is, you know, I joke about Kai's Kai and the report I got on Kai

and if you have to explain Kai Fort Ba'ath's personality, it's, well, you know, Kai's Kai. How is he not getting a job? Nick Folk is in a retirement home, and they bring him out. Matt Bryant was literally on a golf course and the Falcons brought him back. Yeah, you got to go with, give Kai a chance. Where are the protests about Kai being blackballed?

Maybe your report has contributed to the blackball. Yeah, that's fair. I hate to think that, but. Streets are talking. It's nice to see, hey, it's nice to see Young Way Koo back in the league. If you weren't listening a couple years ago, the South Korean kicker who had a very rough start with the charges. But it was short.

It was just a couple games. Maybe it's good that he's in the NFC South for a sleepy team in a dome. I'm glad he's- They iced him like three games into his career. Keisha's mom was so upset by that. Right. So I'm glad that he's back. This is your strong ties to Asian culture. I mean, that's what this is about.

That's fine. That's a stretch. I bet that would be related to this particular topic. Although I do, you know, you can't go wrong. in Korea Town. The more I live in L.A., the more I go. I would say we're at every other week at this point. You know, there's a reason why

Paulie O'Neill was a big hit with the large Irish contingent of New Yorkers. I mean, you have a connection to Koo. He's your Pauli O'Neill. Hey, Pauley! You know, Pauli, he's Irish. I like that guy.

All right. I'm going to Korea Town to get some good food. There you go. great food. Greg actually pointed me in the direction of a wonderful place a few weeks back

for my wife's birthday and I went all in even with that soup that's 450 degrees and you have to wait like an hour for it to cool down and then you put the egg in it you break the egg

and put the egg into the soup and it cooks within the soup and just adds texture and delicious. What is the name of that place for any Los Angeles listeners, Greg? That's B.C.D. Tofu house. There's one in New York too.

It's nothing fancy. It's a tofu house? Tofu petters? It's still barbecue meat and stuff. Agassi Gopchang is a really great Korean barbecue place, too. Agassi Gop? Gop chain.

Oh, okay. It's unreal. All right, good to know. All right, Monday night recap. Let's hit that. Over the medal, running free. Deante Johnson, 30, 25, 20. He's at the 15.

He's at the 10. Step out of the tackle. And gets into the end zone. Wow. 45-yard touchdown pass. And when Miami brought the kitchen sink, the whole middle of the field looked like the Red Sea. Oh, Brian Flores, a Steelers Radio Network with a call.

Bougar McFarlane, you know, a little up and down in that booth. But to his credit, he was all over that. The Dolphins sent the house on a third and forever near midfield late in the second quarter, a zero blitz, a Belichick special. And the Steelers are like, what? Okay. And they hit the wide open receiver who waltzes into the end zone.

zone. And that turned a 14-3 deficit into 14-10, I believe. You're right. And that was it. The game was kind of shifted at that moment. The Steelers controlled the second half, 27-14 win. So the Dolphins dropped to 0-and-7. The organic fish tank lives on. And in this case, Greg, they get out to a 14-zip start, and Mason Rudolph looks terrible, indecisive, holding the ball, throwing into terrible situations. And yet, the steels were able to write the ship before disaster. I have not understood the optimism surrounding the Steelers in Pittsburgh that they're going to rally and be like a nine-win team because of their quarterback position. I guess they've won three out of four after O and three, but I'm with you.

Yeah, and that was playing the wrong guy. Right. It's because I don't trust Rudolph who, yeah, it did warm up and played fine in the second half. That final score was lipstick on a pig. They have a major quarterback problem and I don't think they know it. He is inviting pressure. He's a great example of that. sacks and QB hits are more on the quarterback than they are in the offensive line when

you're just looking at the stats because he was holding the ball forever getting great protection all night like every team does against the dolphins and he was inviting hits well there's the old great cocellism that there are anticipatory passers and then there are quarterbacks who need to see the guy flash open before he throws it and Rudolph is a see it before he throws it passer but he compounds the problem by seeing it and then still throwing at the guys who aren't open. I don't think it's the last of Devlin Duck Hodges. I think we're going to see him start games. I could not believe we didn't hear more talk of whether Hodges should be starting over

Rudolph in the weeks leading up to this game because the offense has moved so much better with Hodges in there. And Rudolph has a better arm, no question about it. But to me, it's quite the conundrum to be in when the guy you hand selected as the quarterback of the future is playing. worse than an undrafted free agent, and the stakes are the dolphins get your top five, six pick overall if you finish in the top five or six, because you are playing the wrong quarterback. That was what was fun. I thought this was going to be one of those games, kind of like an ugly,

beautiful, weird game. Fitzpatrick came out playing awesome, and he's done that a couple times, but man, he was on fire to start the game. He was so decisive. He knew where the pass rush was going, knew where the blitzers was. It was just fun, and I'm thinking, Ooh, this is going to be fun. Maybe the dolphins get their first win or something crazy happens, and they own the Steelers pick. So if ever they're going to win a game, this is like the game to do it. And then Nicolieri, that was where it really started,

dropped a pass that hit him in the chest. That's what set up that third and 20. The dolphins were driving to build out a 14-3 lead. And then they cut Nicolary the next day. I do feel for the spiteful cut the next day because who knows when- You hate emotional GM work. Well, I'm just saying like that might be. That might be his last moment in the NFL.

You don't even know. And either way, he's sitting with himself. He's an Irishman, though. You got to like him. That he turned the game around with a drop and then you get fired. If they cut all the guys who dropped Ryan Fitzpatrick's passes last night, they wouldn't have an offense. Right.

Exactly. Yeah, so Mason Rudolph, he gets off the mat and at least allows the Steelers to have a shot. They're three and four now. And I'm with you. I feel like this is like a seven-win team, maybe. But with- Maybe. defense is so good.

The offense put them in bad places last night, and the defense played really well. You know what? I just, like the Panthers game was a good reminder. Good defense is not enough because good defenses, they only can beat up on bad teams. Like, good defense is still going to move the ball

on the Steelers, especially with some of the injuries. Would you be shocked if they beat the Colts at home next week? I wouldn't be shocked, but I'll be picking the Colts. What's the difference between the Bills and the Steelers right now? I would still take the offense in Buffalo. in Josh Allen. Yeah. Speaking of picks,

you want to do a little... Yeah, you should gloat. I certainly would. What? Oh, yeah. The picks. I went 15 and 0 this week. What?

That's really good. Spread. On your column that you do? On the picks. That's good. That's good. Wow. Not the spread or anything,

but you know what? 12 and 3. I put the scores in 12 and 3 against the spread. That's even better. Nice. In the modern NFL, I don't care what you're doing to pick the right team

is almost impossible. There have been weeks. I believe there was a week where the favorites, according to the desert people went two and ten. Right. This was not one of those weeks. I think there were two or three upsets. Well, congratulations, Greg.

What do you get for that, by the way? Nothing. Nothing about Andrew Hawkins. He's going to give you some pop on your show. Well, we'll talk about it on game debut. All right. Nice work. James Connor had a huge game and left the game with a shoulder injury of some kind.

He looks so good. He looks so much better now than he did in September. Best case scenario, though, because it looked like it could have been a clavicle or something, thing that would ruin his season when he left late in the game. But I believe he practiced in a limited capacity or is planning to practice this weekend. Yeah, they expect him to go. So not anything too serious. So the Dolphins fall to 0 and 7 and the Gase Bowl, you know, I'll be taking that high in the draft on Thursday's show.

Dolphins versus Jets. That might be the Dolphins' best chance to get a W, these two matchups against the Jets, if they even want one. Remember, Rich Eisen, Rich Eisen had the theory on the show. the Jets would spitefully out-tank the dolphins and then not let them take their blessed Tua, the quarterback from Alabama. I don't really watch. Yeah.

Yes. Good. I love that as a possibility. I think the dolphins are going to win a game. You know, I, and I'm glad I didn't note this on Twitter, but the dolphins at halftime of last week's game, had outgained their opponents for the last 10 quarters. That's not, you know, since their by week,

they had outgained their opponents. I mean, they've been competitive. They've been a... They're not good. I just think they'll win a game because it's hard to lose all 60. That's all. Okay, that's fine.

And then we saw in the second half of the Steelers game that their offensive line is so far below even the teams with bad offensive lines, it's not even preseason caliber. It's like CFL caliber. But they're so much better

than they were in week one. I feel like they're getting a win in the next couple weeks. They're playing with some energy and they get the jets twice. They get the Bengals. I feel like they'll find a win in one of those games.

All right. Let's move on to Thursday night football week nine. The San Francisco 49ers 7 and 0. How great were the Niners? That they moved up in the old Zeusers power rankings past the Saints from three to two. And I know some people say they should be number one. And I get that because they were that dominant and they've been that dominant this year. But they are looking to extend to 8 and 0 and they are traveling to Glendale to face the Arizona

Cardinals who, of course, came down to Earth. earth with that loss to the Saints. However, however, as John Sterling would say, if you watch that game, you know, they put a pretty good fight against the Saints. It got away from them, of course, as the final score will tell you. But that decision to go for it on fourth and one from their own 30 loved the onions of it all. But once they missed that in the third quarter, 10-6 became 176 and 176 quickly turned it to 31-6. So the Cardinals had some fight in them in that game, but they did get wiped. Well, I think their defense, you know, they gave up a lot of yards, but they've got better

players now, Patrick Peterson's back, and some people believe Chandler Jones is having another all-pro type of season. That guy's been phenomenal ever since he's been in Arizona. You've got some players on that defense, and Kyler Murray, again, keeps doing a little bit better than I expect him to do. He, I like the fact that he's in prime time. It's a very tough matchup. You're starting Kenyon Drake probably at running back.

But he plays smart. You know, they've only had four turnovers the whole season, the Arizona Cardinals. Easily, the- That is shocking. The team that's, you know, giving it away the least. They haven't fumbled. They haven't lost to fumble the entire season. I don't even think they've actually fumbled.

Forget just losing it. Well, isn't that, that is a ridiculous. So if you've seen the 49ers play this year, you would say regression to the mean hits them in a big way on Thursday night. You would think so. They do have Christian. Oh, no, you're so right. Well, you're right.

Nine turnovers on the way. Christian Kirk is back, though, and you have fits, and Murray's pretty fun to watch. And you know what? The 49ers make blowouts fun. They're just so good right now. They have so many good players with Bosa. I think Sherman's, Richard Sherman sort of having an underrated. Kello Witherspins having a good year.

You would think Richard Sherman playing like a pro bowler would be getting more attention, but maybe it's the front line making them look better, but he's played great. And they kind of remind me, you know, They remind me a little bit of the Jim Harbaugh of 49ers, where they're just got a bunch of, like, big physical athletes at a lot of position. Even Debo Samuel at wide receiver, he's an athlete. Tevin Coleman's so fast, it's like he doesn't even know what to do with this speed. They've just got athletes everywhere.

It is what to do with it, run to the end of it. I know, but sometimes he almost seems like. Four times. Sometimes it seems like he's running so fast he can't control it. I love that. This has to be the cornerback's dream to play in this defense, right? Sure. There was one moment in the previous Cardinals game where Kyler Murray West lost his helmet

and it was like in Indiana Jones when the boulders rolling towards indie Everybody just getting out of the way It's the magic hat for Frosty Just two left Two feet jumping around All right That's it

Good show, fun show. We'll be back Thursday to preview the rest of the games. And yes, that will be Halloween. So Wes and Lakeisha from West Manor will handle the game we just previewed. So that will be something to check out. From NFL Uncorked headquarters. Is that what it? That's what we're branding.

The naming rights. That it made sense. Yeah, NFL on Cork headquarters. That's good. I mean, he knows where his bread is buttered. Every time I've mentioned NFL in Cork, they got a thank you tech. So, I mean, who knows what he's getting? I think I know.

All right, let's go. Dan Hansa signing off for the mailman, the old boss, Ricky Hollywood, behind the glass. Oh, she's going to have fun. Speaking of, ah, Halloween in West Hollywood? Let's fly till Thursday. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies

to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sundays.

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