NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Trades We’d Like to see; Russell Wilson Talk with Michael-Shawn Dugar

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

A room filled with some heroes- Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal bring you all of the latest news in the NFL including potential interest from the Browns for Derek Carr, the Cowboys talking about trading La’el Collins, and some other notable cuts around the league. The heroes give out their “trades we’d like to see” before welcoming in the Athletic’s Michael-Shawn Dugar to talk about what went wrong with Russell Wilson in Seattle. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. The reason your wife is pissed and why you're sleeping on the couch. We'll take that. That hits close to home, but it's... I don't know who wrote that, who authored that?

If that's how you want to spin it to help you get through some tough domestic times, put that on our shoulders. From the Chris Wessling podcast studio, what's around the NFL. Dan Hans is here. Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. Yeah. Greg doesn't sleep on the couch from what we know. I sleep in the bed. That's true.

I mean, it's a wonderful man. I don't know where Mark was going. Well, I often do sleep on the couch because I don't go to bed at like 10.08 p.m. So then if I enter that room, they'll open the door, then I've often been blamed that I've waking up the other individual. To the repertoire, it's pretty rare I'm out late. But if she's already asleep and stuff and I'm coming home late, I'll sleep on the couch in that scenario.

But that's pretty rare. That's a nice thing. We'll spend that positively. Sometimes. Let's not be. I don't want to wake her up. Obtuce here. But when people say I'm sleeping on the couch, it's because.

because there's some marital strife. Right. Sure. I'm not saying yes. All these shiny boys, like, I know I want to wake her up. It's like, no, we're talking about people that are sleeping on the couch because the wife doesn't want you. Greg is out late and he's like, can't wake her up bed or sleep on the couch tonight. That's weird.

I would say that Greg and I have packaged it a certain way. There could be other things. Right. Absolutely. I mean, you have an addiction. You have an addiction to the around the NFL podcast. It's breaking up your marriage. Priorities.

I think you've made the right choice, the listeners. I wouldn't call it. addiction. I think it's something that, you know, you've long deserved. All right. Here we go. Let's get into it. It's our third show in as many days because that's how we grind, because the new league year is closing in the legal tampering period ahead of the dawn of the new league year is, what, 84 hours away. I don't know, something like that. Monday at noon Eastern, that begins and that's when teams or agents and teams can start to talk about doing business and then Wednesday is when contracts can be finalized the trades that we've seen this

week like Russell Wilson to the Broncos Carson Wentz to the as Mark says commanders that becomes official on Wednesday and we are going to have some fun today because we will get into some moves we'd like to see once that legal tampering period opens up on Monday or even before that as the reports continue to roll in hopefully maybe there's one more big bombshell that drops this week before we get to the big week next week. Do it. Do it. Why not? Go for it. Also, we have a guest coming in, or not coming in, but via, not satellite, but like the equivalent of someone being via satellite in 1996, Skype. I mean, there probably are satellites involved to some degree. I don't know to what degree.

Really? Okay. Well, Sean Michael Duggar, who covers the Seahawks, for the athletic and does it damn well. He just wrote a banger about everything that led to the divorce of the Seahawks and Russell Wilson. So good timing to have him on the program and see where Seattle is and get a little more, learn a little more about the Russell Wilson dynamic with Pete Carroll, which certainly soured. It sounds like Gregi as the years went along.

I love the stories like the one that he wrote, which was kind of like a dump of all the information that he had in his back pocket over the last few years of what was going on, and you know that the Pete Carroll Russell Wilson, like, power dynamic is up my alley. He nailed it. Well, we are fans of the athletic. They do really great work and have a lot of great reporters

over there. And I think one of the things they're famous for is when the big story drops, the next 24 to 72 hours, you're going to get the post-mortem. Here's what was going on before that huge news. Yeah, I'll talk to him about it. But it's like, hey, we don't want to burn that source while Russell Wilson

on the team. Oh, he's leaving. All right, let's just put it. Notebook dump. Yes, and we'll get caught up on some news. Things slowed down in the last 24 hours, which is okay because we had so much to digest over Tuesday and Wednesday, but we will get you caught up there.

But let's start there. Let's start with things we'd like to see happen, boys. I mean, this is the offseason. There really is no offseason in the NFL anymore, but things will quiet down a little bit and the focus will shift back to the draft in about a week to 10 days, but from basically this week through next

Thursday or so, it's going to be a lot of fun and a lot of interesting. We're going to learn a lot about all of these teams. So let's share some moves we'd like to see. Greg, why don't you get us going? I'm just going to go with like a regular old free agent signing to start as I, you know, more obviously embrace my Chargers fandom. Let's just put Gronk on that team. I think Gronk's got a lot to offer. Mark's showing me his highlighted right up. I think that's a, I actually one of my top four was Rob Grunkowski to the Chargers. They need a tight end. This is well done, Greg. I just make so much. He's still still a top five or six tight end. It's one of the most surprising things to me in the current NFL that he was playing as well. I just want to know

that how Mark was going to get the other names, just kind of like little notes under his Rob Grunkowski to the Chargers. He wrote three names. names, Trey McKitty, Gabe Niebuhr, and Hunter Camp Moyer. I thought those last two names were made up, but is that their... That is their current under-contract cadre of tight-end. So I think the... McKitty, I know. That sounds like a made-up name, but...

Ray McKitty? I kind of like that. He's going to have a market. Now, it might not happen in the next week or so. That's the weird thing with Grong. He might kind of just be like, eh, I don't really want to sign until July because I don't want to play in training camp.

I don't want to deal with the off-season. So he could be someone that's sitting out there. but I think you could help a lot of teams. Buffalo is another team that supposedly is interested in Gronk Bengals, maybe. I mean, Gronk has earned his position, which is you're not going to see Rob Gronkowski sign with the Falcons. You're not going to see him sign with the Texans. He will sign. If he does want to continue playing, it certainly seems like he does.

It will be with a contender. Sure, maybe the Rams will make room for him. You know how these things work. But the Chargers to me, yes. and we are Herbert Files in this studio. So the idea of giving him another red zone target. I like that one. I like that one.

That's good. I just want to start with like a nice meat and potato. That's fun. That's fun. How about you, Markey? I have a Jets one for you later, but I want to talk about the other New York team because I am, I kind of hate when people say this.

Like the league is better when team X is good. But I do feel that way about the Giants because that was like, you know, Dan and I grew up in Giants territory. and they've kind of just been this fizzled out mess for so long. And am I really supposed to think that if you're the Giants, that Brian Dayball is going to make something out of Daniel Jones? Possibly, I'm not into it. I want to see something much bigger happen here.

And we already are about to talk about QB divorces with team. I see that coming. The next melodrama that we could put an end to real quick is Kyla Murray and the Cardinals. I know that, no, no, what happens here. I would love to see the Giants find, away to rest Kyler Murray away from Arizona get him into New York Giants

red white and blue and have Brian Dayball send Daniel Jones back to Arizona check you later cardinals the giants are back on the map I'm giving you resting Greg face right now well this is meant to be things I want to see but I don't here's why I don't like I like your whole vibe okay I like your idea of making a New York football team relevant again I love your Hawaiian

shirt okay reminds me of an old boss we used to have but that's not a good memory but maybe you're You're taking Charles Matson stole this from the Beatles. We're stealing it back. You're doing the Bono thing, but with Hawaiian shirts. Okay, well, at least that part of my presentation, you find, you find appealing to see. Kyler Murray, Kyler Murray, going to the New York media market?

No, I don't like that at all. He put the Cardinals back on his Instagram. Oh, that's great. I saw that, and I went with this anyways. I think that he, I think that was probably another world of psychological warfare. I think Kyler Murray, obviously, is tremendously talented, and I, and I, my record, I'm on the record that I have, I have some misgivings about him after last season. That's a Dan Hansis shout out. Before any of the drama, thank you, Paul Rudd, around Kyler Murray started to surface.

So, yes, I'm a little on guard about him, but at the same time, is he an upgrade over Daniel Jones? Absolutely. But I've heard enough about him in the reports, there's enough smoke here for me to wonder, like, how would that guy handle a market like New York? York. And I'm not saying that would be the reason not to do it. But that's what my initial thought was, ooh, how would that go? Counterpoint, what if Daniel Jones, and we haven't learned this, it's not been confirmed yet, but behind the scenes is a huge a hole. Well, I don't think that did go to Duke. No, I'll say this, that Daniel Jones, you're probably right, that we shouldn't get to invested in the idea of Brian Daibel fixing Daniel Jones and making it a Josh Allen 2.0.

But, man, I wouldn't mind seeing one year. I think the giant, that's where the Giants are. I think Daniel Jones better than people think. I would love to see Kyler Murray move just for the entertainment of it all, and I'm not sure if Kingsbury is the guide to do it. I just can't imagine them making a deal without more of a sure thing coming back. Now, I don't know who that would be. In general, what I'd like to see is more of these quarterbacks go. Baker, Derek Carr could be one.

Matt Ryan, like one of those that are maybe a little more established. I could imagine Arizona doing a deal where they also get some picks and an established guy. I don't know if Daniel Jones is that guy, but that would be fun. I do actually have some reporting on the personality of Daniel Jones. And I'm going to leave this. It came from an anonymous source. Very well, like it. That Daniel Jones was standoffish to this individual on the red carpet at NFL honors.

Erica, tell us more about that incident. He just buried me. I did not. Daniel Jones, right? Justin can back me up, was not even. standoffish was the word. It's a tough spot, though. He might have already done some other interviews.

You said Mac Jones was nice to you either. Matt Jones was great. No, the Patriots guy was just like three questions, Max, three questions. Don't ask him anything. Right. At all. Right. That's fair.

So you're saying that Daniel Jones wasn't necessarily rude. It's just. Oh, no, he was rude for sure. Start connecting the dots. Like Dan said, the Duke guy. He was probably in the crowd the other night crying. That was one of my favorite 20 minutes in sports television. I happened to be home.

this awkward building, all miserable and crying, waiting for Shechevsky to come back out because they were supposed to be a celebration. And then he comes back out and scolds them. I've never seen, like, if you don't like Duke, that was the greatest, like, 30 minutes of television ever. That reminds me of a few years back when the Raiders abandoned the Bay Area.

Yes, very simple. And we sent Mark Sessler up there to cover the big game and the Raiders got robbed by the officials and what should have been a win and a happy moment turned into this mystifying loss that shouldn't happen. And then Sessler's boots on the ground. Take us through it, Mark.

All right. Well, no, you know what? Here's the one thing that happened after that game. There was hints and suggestions that it was going to turn into like a looting affair where like stuff was being thrown. Right, that's why you flew up there. Well, I mean, there was, I didn't have they won.

It wouldn't have been that way. But then like they turned, actually, they got calm enough and then it quieted down, turning it into not such a news story. so I don't know why I'm recapping it now here. I know we're well off track here, but I just want to circle back to the whole resting Greg face thing. Because at the first night of the Combine,

there was like a whole conversation about it. Colleen was like, oh, yeah, first 10 times I was on the podcast and it was resting Greg face going on. And my thing is, I guess you guys all knew about this, but it took Gonzo to actually introduce the concept of resting Greg face. John R. Born March 12, 1977 is an American sports writer who's married to NFL media broadcaster, Colleen Wolf, John, who is a Pisces, resides in Los Angeles.

with his wife and two dogs. And I just want to know, like, what other, you know, possible talking could be going on, like, if Gonsu had just introduced it. I wish someone had told me about it before, before this. I thought we've mentioned it here, Greg. You're badly misremembering this. I don't know if you've been, you know, some of your social activities. But I branded it.

I coined Resting Greg face on this podcast. I believe during the beginning of the pandemic when we were doing the show. It was much more severe when we were, you're on your, you're in your own home, staring at our faces and the lower right quadrant it's Greg's face he just looks displeased and annoyed all the time

most of the time Ricky give me my one shot of like doing a podcast with Greg when it's a computer this is an audio show Mark make a point about Kyler Murray and the Giants I think Kyla Murray

would be a great fit for the Giants that's my own personal idea horrified yeah it's just a hey by the way Kyler Murray I did I noted this I have my article up

in NFL.com Best case, worst case, most likely scenario for NFL QBs. Murray is the only one that I couldn't even like make an educated guess about. Best case is he gets a huge contract extension and it vaporizes all these ugly headlines in the last month or so. Worst case is that the contract talks never get off the ground. There's ugly social media stuff. The agent drops another manifesto and he holds out.

That's worst case. What is the most likely scenario? Do we have enough knowledge of the situation to even throw it out there? Because I didn't because, like, we don't know really where this story stands right now. I'm going to throw, I think that the most likely scenario is that it becomes an offseason talking point and he stays away from the Cardinals and that they don't trade him because they don't want to give him the new contract. And it just becomes something that we're talking about through August. You see the new Russell Wilson. Yeah.

He gets moved next year. Or, you know, Rogers last year, that sort of thing. because I can't imagine them making a swap. I'm going to throw just one out here because it's similar. So we always have to have a cantankerous star quarterback at all time. I just think that's the most likely because I can't quite imagine a trade, but I thought that statement that they made made it very clear, he's not going to show up to work unless he gets a contract.

And the reports that are out there, I kind of can't imagine giving them a market value contract. But I'm going to throw out a different QB swap. I think it's a little more likely. How about Derek Carr and Baker Mayfield? that would be fun. It actually makes a little bit of sense here because Josh McDaniels was one of the Patriots guys

who loved Baker Mayfield in the buildup. They supposedly wanted to move up to take them number one overall. I think Cleveland would be interested in that. I know that they, in theory, like Derrick Carr, are they going to pay him $45 million, Josh McDaniels? Maybe. But I just like that a swap that would be fun,

mix up two franchises we're about to, you know, that'll be kind of in the middle of the AFC. The McDaniel's point is that that helps me convince that the Raiders might have some interest. I don't think, I mean, I don't think Mark Davis seems like a Derrick Carr guy. We keep saying that, but Derrick Carr has been on the team now for like eight years. And he's good. And he's coming off his best season. Like people, like athletic.

First it was John Gruden. And now that John Gruden got swept out. Now we're going to shift it over to it. Now the owner doesn't like him either. Well, there's no rush to extend them. I understand that. I get that. And maybe maybe that happens this year.

or maybe it doesn't. Do I see Derek Carr as an upgrade over Baker? I don't know. As a Browns fan, I'd have a tough time getting excited about this. Is he going to get you over the hump? No. He's going to do the same thing that he's done. His contract situation is interesting, too,

because I just think he could make it uncomfortable for them and not show up to work this off season too. Derek Carr would do that. I think it's possible. It doesn't seem like a car move. He's set to make about 20. Two million. Wait a minute.

Flashpoint Derek Carr? That could be... Ooh. Think about it. I mean, he is due $19.7 million this year. About $3 million less. That's a pretty good deal. And Carson Wentz and about $30 million less than Aaron Rogers.

It's what you do with them next, though. It's the next contract. But, Dan, to your point, with flashpoints, if that were to happen, you just put it on the calendar that he becomes the center of NFL gossip and news about a fortnight from now that's how that series works as we mentioned yesterday yes and just song really saves it the timing you know it's march i think you're starting to see though coming around what it's about i was always for it it was industry tastemakers in the news right um all right oh just to give you a little perspective if you're so if derrick car

scheduled to make about 19 million that's basically what sam darnold's getting in the final year of his rookie deal that's what the panthers are are locked in on Sam Darnold. So Derek Carr. Sam Donald. I know he's a pro ball alternate. I think he played in the game. But he is a top like 13 quarterback, I think.

And they made some, and his people have made some whispers about that, that now is the time to address that. This is the year. It's a new, it's a new regime. So it's like either you're with me or you're not. And if ever there was a time to leave, now it would be the time.

It's a new regime. All right. I'm going to throw out another quarterback. I just think nobody wants to talk about this. And I think it's because, I guess financially, it just doesn't make any sense. But I'm not willing to give up the ghost of Matt Ryan getting a fresh start somewhere. We saw what happened with Matthew Stafford, getting out of Dodge and winning a Super Bowl with the Rams.

Now, I think Matthew Stafford's skills relative to his peak are pretty close right now. I wouldn't say that about Matt Ryan, who is an MVP in 2016 and has fallen off a little bit. But still, I think Ryan, I really would be a little bum for a guy who's going to end his career. as a top 10, 12 quarterback of his generation, an MVP is going to be right near the top of the list and all the major passing all-time marks by the end of his career. Like he's just going to play out the string here

with the Falcons and get old with the Falcons. How about we find a way to make it work? And I'll throw a team out there that has a butt ton of salary cap space and a glaring-needed quarterback as of 24 hours ago. How about the Colts? People want to say, Jimmy G, get him to Indy.

He'll be an upgrade. I don't buy that. I think that they're basically Jimmy G and Wentz at the same level as a quarterback. Matt Ryan revitalized on a new team with better supporting cast. I think that could be a guy that takes you maybe even a little higher than where

Philip Rivers was a couple years ago, a guy that might have another year or two in the tank to give you something big. It is on brand for this regime of the cults to go get a veteran quarterback who we like, but who had his best season about three or four years prior. That said, I think this would heal some wounds for the cults if they could pull that off.

And I mean, it still would leave the Falcons with a huge, as you said, a butt ton, is that the word you used? A butt ton of dead money. But the cults have money to spend right now. Right. Ryan has this $46 million cap at the highest in the history. It's a bad job with their accounting. I was on that beat all last off season.

It was giggled at ferociously, but cults, It was just that you brought it up roughly 37 times. Well, that's what you do when you're on a beat. I think there's an argument that they have the worst roster in the entire NFL. They're bad. Definitely if not, if Matt Ryan wasn't on it. If you look at their depth chart, they're too deep, like they've got like five or six players. And I don't know if Ryan would do enough for the Colts.

To me, he would at best be what Philip Rivers was in 2020 because he just doesn't have the arm strength anymore. He's still a good processor, good decision maker, but he's kind of like, Alex Smith late in Alex Smith's career Wow you're going to do him like that The good version of Alex like the 30s He's getting up there Like not everyone's going to be Tom Brady And age like Tom Brady

He's 36 years old So he's kind of a caretaker but We watched him shred in London in October Now I know against that's a bad Jets defense But he really showed me something Watching him in person that game If you can protect him He was weirdly predictable last season

If you could protect him He was like a borderline line top 10 quarterback and then the other games it was like useless right but he's not going to make any plays on his own he doesn't have a big arm but if you can protect him he's good the cult's off offensive line is not what it was even a year ago at this point they're missing people yeah to make it work you need to fortify that unit as well that's what we're saying about uh you know cars and wensall last season great offensive line just hand the ball off all day long make eight throws a game where is he what's your jets uh move all right i i have i have one um that i truly think would help the jets um

from the culture, Robert Sala, defensive. I know where you're going. I know where you're going. I like it. Honey Badger. Yes. Everyone wants Honey Badger. Everybody wants it.

Well, of course you want him because I think that he's the kind of person that could give the Jets legitimate attitude. I'll start there, but this one I kind of want to just see happen because there are whispers that Cleveland is not going to bring this player back. Jadavian Clowney to the Jets simply to observe Dan, take a massive hard right turn from the half decade of James. jabbing and needling from Dan towards Clowny. If the Jets want to pay big money to watch another guy get injured,

yeah, bring in Jadavia and Clowny. That's fine. You're healthy last season. I don't know if he fits that defense exactly what they're looking for. Honey Badger, there's some buzz about him to the Ravens, which I think would be a fun and typical and great move. I would love to see him on the Patriots, just have a bunch of different safeties that can do a lot of different things.

Adrian Phillips. Dougger, like you don't have any cornerbacks while I'm talking Patriot secondary. I'll just throw out like, hey, how about we just, how about they just replace J.C. Jackson with Carlton Davis. Carlton Davis, to me, could top Harold Landry's $52 million guaranteed. It kind of fell under the radar that Landry got $52 million guaranteed. That is like in the Aaron Donald rate. I mean, that isn't like super, I think these contracts are going to be wild.

And Carlton Davis, if we were doing the old sandwich thing where we would pick who gets the most guaranteed money, I think he's got a shot at it. Or J.C. Jackson, for that matter, one of the two. Why shrug off J.C. Jackson, who you already know fits the system, has already been better than Carlton Davis? I would like that even more. It just doesn't seem like it's happening. You're paying someone else to pay someone else. And Robert Solid desperately needs a dog in his secondary.

That makes more sense to me to the Jets. And I just wonder if they're gun-shy because the Jets have the two biggest cornerback misses in the free agent market over the last five years with Tremaine Johnson and Dorel Rivas. would they want to give massive money to a guy that Belichick said we'll let him walk but he's a ball hawk he's exactly what New York needs in their secondary and the Jets obviously have as much cap space as just about any time.

They got it because Joe Douglas you look at 10 years and when guys are going to get fired and sometimes that's when you find who's going to spend Chris Ballard think he's on the hot seat this season ton of calf space think he's going to spend Joe Douglas think he's on the hot seat this season Think he's going to spend a ton of cap space

because those guys that might not get another off season if it doesn't go away. You know how to get Jets fans excited? Signed J.C. Jackson to a billion-dollar contract and then draft Kyle Hamilton. And you completely remake that secondary. And Robert Salah gets Carl Lawson back with Quinn and Williams and we start to go to work.

Sick of the whole Jets, Patriots, sharing players. We're a little Jets heavy here. But I truly believe Alan Robinson would be perfect for them. I just think. Well, if they have a quarterback. Yeah, but Zach, to me, that is a quarterback, a wide receiver you want to add with Zach Wilson. You're going to have to lean into his strengths, which is throwing the ball vertically to the outside, down the field. He can do that.

You know, I think that's going to be where he wins. And it's Alan Robinson is the only guy out there like that. I think that's a nice fit with their other guys. You don't have a quarterback because everywhere he's played, the quarterback has completely. Sure, but like that is a great one, two, three. He's played with the bears, right? Oh, the Jaguars. Corey Davis as a two and more as a three.

And those three players, to me, complement each other very well. What the missing piece they have is kind of the burner on the outside. Yeah. And yeah, we don't know if Zach Wilson can play. It was a very up and down, mostly down rookie year. But if you use a number two overall pick on a quarterback, you're going to have to invest and see if he could play with some top tier talent. I'd love to see that. All right.

Anybody else have another one? I would like to just see this happen because it would add a little more salt under the wound of the Seahawks. Speaking of our next guest, Bobby Wagner to the Rams. Yeah. Just go spend the money. Go do it. Add this guy who basically just adds another tipping point figure and a defense that wants to get back to the super. I wonder if that would just be out of spite.

Well, I guess they know how great Bobby Wagner is because I've seen this bandied about here. Steve Weish kind of hinted at it. It feels like a Rams move, doesn't it? It does, but they also never pay for that position. They don't have a lot of space. So it would be fun, though. One last one is how about those AFC change? champion Cincinnati Bengals.

You guys said it wasn't sexy enough for TV, but I think it is Laramie Tunsel to the Bengals. He's on the Texans right now, and he's kind of an under-the-radar trade candidate. I expect him to be traded in the next two weeks. I think the Texans, they have some of the issues that maybe Miami did with him, but they already paid the guaranteed money out, Houston, that is.

And I think if you're taking on Tunsel, I think Cincinnati take a shot with him. I'd rather do that than, you know, signing Brandon Shirf, which I've heard is a possibility in Cincinnati, like a breaking down guard. I know. How about give me the upside of Laramie Tonsil, give up whatever he would cost? I don't know. I mean, hopefully not multiple first roundt. They're a guard player on the right side was an epic disaster.

Shrf, if healthy, is a good player, but his durability has been an issue. Good combo. You got Eric Fisher in the show yesterday. You got Laramie Tunzel in today. I mean, you're acting like Laramie Tunzel is a known name. You're like, the trenches is where championships are won. He entered the league as a potential number one overall draft pick who fell partly because he used a bong.

Like, hey, everyone knows him there. And then he got traded for like three first round picks from Miami to Houston. People know Laramie Tonsol. It wasn't just front of honor. That also included Bill O'Brien. Right. And it was the time. It was a gas mask bomb.

It wasn't also just an anecdote, you know, from his past. Right. It was just an outrageous bong. In hindsight, though, I think. I think it was just like the bong made him look like a guy from like Mad Max or something. It's all legal now. So you shouldn't have knocked him down the board. It's all legal.

You can understand. I'm not saying I'm not passing any judgment on people that use that recreationally. I'm just saying maybe on draft night for that video to surface, you know, it might have given teams pause and I understand that. All right. Good talk there. Good tonsil, gas mask, bong talk. Let's take a break. and then bring in our guest, Michael Sean Dugard.

What's up, everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape,

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Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. to around the NFL. Guitar. Our next guest is a repeat guest, because we like him, because he gets it. He covers the Seahawks for the athletic. He just wrote a banger about the dissolution of the marriage between Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson, and now we welcome him on to talk about that situation.

Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Sean Dukar. What's up, buddy? What up? What up? How are you guys doing? Doing good, bud. So we, you were on the show for the first time last year. It was probably around this time or maybe in the spring. And we talked about Russell Wilson and the Seahawks and what's going to happen and how it felt like a pivotal year 2021 was going to be for this marriage. And it almost felt I remember at the time I was talking about they need to have a nice year for this thing to get calmed down. They didn't have a nice year. And things didn't get calmed down. and now Russell Wilson is on the Broncos.

So let's start there, Michael Sean. Is this a marriage that could have been saved if they just were able to get things on track in 2021? Or was this a divorce that was going to happen, anything short of, say, a deep playoff run? Yeah, it needed to be a deep playoff run. I think they needed to probably get to the NFC title game. Obviously, getting to the Super Bowl would have been great.

I mean, I just think that they had, there was no middle ground, really. And I think I probably talked about it last time I was done here, too. Like when you have a guy who named his book, Win Forever, as Pete, girl, and you guys have another guy who names his son, win, you know, that'd be Russell Wilson. Like, you really don't have any room to do any losing if you guys can't agree on stuff. So I always thought that if Russell Wilson didn't see a direct path to a championship, at least following the 2021 season, like I said, if they lose close in the NFC title game,

that means you're right there, right? But anything short of that, you could just tell. like they have the same goal, which is to win, but they just can't agree they being Russ, Pete, maybe even John Snyder, they just could not agree on not only just how to get there, but what happens when you encounter obstacles? And I think that last part is really important. Every team encounters them, but if you're not on the same path on how to problem solve, you'll really have problems.

I feel like your average Seahawks fan can read your incredible write-up on what happened here and contemplate, yes, the split was coming. This was sort of inevitable, but you also on your podcast, Seahawks Man to Man, talked about the word hubris on the part of the Seahawks organization, people inside of it. Can you just kind of unpack what their thinking was? Because it sounds like they maybe seem a little too overconfident that they can overcome the rare move of trading away a franchise quarterback. Yeah, and that's the word hubris is that was used to me, I think, twice in conversations with people after the trade. kind of talking about why Seattle would do it. Now, obviously Pete Carroll and John Snatter aren't going to get up there and say, yeah, no, we just think we can draft another Russell

Wilson. But remember, this is the team that was reportedly going to draft Patrick Mahomes in 2017, the team that reportedly called the Browns, or at least talk to the Browns, I don't know who called who, ahead of the 2018 draft to potentially trade for the number one overall pick that year, believed to then have been used on Josh Allen if the Seahawks had it, which would have been a good move, clearly. But like those moves just signal that. that this team, maybe it's just John, maybe it's Pete, maybe it's John and a couple personnel guys. Believe that, hey, man, you give us enough draft picks.

We can rebuild this thing. Once we built it once, we can build it again. And I don't even necessarily fault them for thinking that because in a league where the average lifespan, quote-unquote, of a player is about three years and some change, you can't just count on having guys forever. You know, it just takes one knee injury or something, you know. This is a team that lost the draft pick

because he broke his face on an ATV. That'd be Malik McDowell before he even got to training camp. And so you kind of have to view these guys as indisposable. I think Darius Slay of the Eagles tweeted, I think last night or a couple of days ago, that teams just think all pro and pro bowl players grow on trees. And he's not wrong. They do think that, you know, because they're the ones who draft and acquire those all pro and pro bowl players so they think they can do it again.

That's not to say Seattle immediately thinks he can find a quarterback better than Russell Wilson, but clearly by agreeing to trade him, they must think we can at least get by. without Russell Wilson. Right. And I think they've thought they can draft that well because they started off historically great, but it really hasn't been that way on defense for a while. I loved the idea that you're kind of putting out there that's like, I don't believe that Pete Carroll is going to rebuild.

I think they're going to spend what they can in cap space. I think they're going to be aggressive. They're going to use these draft picks, and they're going to try to contend this year to prove everyone wrong. It's going to be tough. but I'm just still interested in going back a few years because the way that you painted how close they were, how Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson were very much on the same page

and they had almost certain sort of rules for Russell Wilson not to criticize them too publicly and how in the end there was a lot of criticism from Russell Wilson's camp of Pete Carroll privately and how they were burying his boss but that Russell Wilson was always trying to have like this plausible deniability of like, well, I didn't ask for a trade. I just said, here's where I would want to be traded if I was going to get traded.

Like, how did that play within the organization with his teammates? And how, like, wouldn't that be annoying to be working with this dude for the last five years while he's kind of bearing you privately? And like, how did that work with his teammates? I'm really curious. Well, as long as they're winning, it's not too bad. Right. And I think I do have to give some credit to my coworkers, Jason Jenks and Mike Sando. We kind of triple bylined that story. And that section you're highlighting there, kind of the background with Russ and Pete. That was a lot of them more than it was me. We all worked on a story together, but that particular section, they did a lot of heavy lifting. So I got to give them a major shout out. But yeah, Russ is a polarizing figure in Seattle for some of the reasons you mentioned. I mean, even look at this last season, right? This last season is a really good example. And I have to write a story, I think, at some point about his legacy. And I'll include, you know, this kind of like anecdotal evidence there like Russ broke his finger that sucked right no one

wanted him to break his finger right but then the doctor tells you have six to eight months six to eight weeks excuse me that you got to sit out because your finger's broken rest here's that and go well I can do it in three to four well no that's not how diagnosis usually works brother so you got the guy you know seemingly and this is not anything a player told me or coach told me specifically but like he got the guy seemingly still making it about him around Sunday night football he's still like doing their routine, even though he's on IR, you know, like stuff, stuff like that. He's tweeting out a lot of the surgery. He's putting the Instagram of the recovery. Like, yeah, he was setting it all up. Right. You know, it almost became like a Russell Wilson production,

which is not, again, that's normal. But when you're winning, it's easier to just, it's kind of just, you know, part for the course. But then when you rush back, you know, against the Green Bay Packers, you know, at two weeks after the team put up a 30 ball, obviously against the Jaguars, but you know, when Geno Smith's first win, and then you get shut out. you know by green bay you know that stuff doesn't sit well you know if i think like two weeks later in washington he threw an interception you know on the two-point conversion the last play of the game and monday night football they lost that game and i'd just say everything was was russ's fault necessarily that teammates don't like don't uh just hated the guy hated his guts but you know

it's just easy easy to excuse stuff that yeah you could dismiss it's like annoying or cheesy or whatever when it's not followed by greatness right like his work ethic will never be questioned His talent will never be questioned, but it's like, hey, man, if you kick it a certain way, we need you to be out here and be great, you know, and I think that that made him like a polarizing figure behind the scenes. You know, what's interesting, too, is that one thing I didn't quite check out to me, and maybe you could offer some insight on this. At one point in the piece in the athletic, it's written that there was some thought that Wilson was checked out during this season. But, like, a guy that's checked out doesn't rush back from a broken finger. That made me think, well, he seemed to still be a great competitor. But if you're a guy who's checked out, aren't you going to take that maximum time and get to the off season?

Any thoughts about that? Yeah, no, that's fair. That's a good point. I will say, and that was something I heard directly. I guess I'm spilling which sections were who's on the spotlight. But like that, that's something I was able to contribute to the piece, that line in particular. And it's something I kind of heard later in the year. So like after the rush back from the finger injury, maybe around like, maybe after they beat like the Texans or maybe not directly after, but around, you know, early Decemberish where it's just guys like, man, three just may not be in it, you know, because players prefer to guys as their jersey numbers, like even though they know their full names and stuff.

Like it's like three might not be, you know, in this all the way. And it makes sense, you know, right? Because this is the guy who's agent gave Adam Schaefter here, man, if we don't want to trade. but if you're thinking about it, here's four teams. Like, how do you already have four teams on deck, right? That means you already have, you got one leg out the door. You know, and then I think around that same time I heard that guys thought he was checked out, boom, Jordan Schultz has the list of three new teams, Saints, Broncos, and Giants. Russ gets asked about it, says, you know, I never said that to Jordan.

Okay, but that doesn't mean the information isn't true, right? Right. Which is important. He's not as good at this as he thinks he is. Doesn't it feel like that the way Wilson tries to play the media? He's not as good at it as some other players in a prominent position. I mean, I think his camp's really good. They are probably some of the best at playing this game.

But it's just stuff like that because you have a good question there. Like, right, a guy who's checked out is not going to rush back. But I just think it was more so towards the end, like, man, is this guy really want to be here still? Like, you can just kind of sense whether it was leaks or performance. or whatever. And then what do you know? He wants to dip. You know, he signed off on that no trade clause to bounce to Denver. So I think the checked out part, like, adds up for me, especially if you think about it like in everything after he comes back from the finger injured.

So crystal ball this, because now that's great that Seattle and the people inside won this power struggle and end of an era. Everything's changed. But you still have to go find the next quarterback. And you can't just try to sell Andy Dalton to the northwest part of the country here. Like, what is the move? I mean, is there maybe something explosive coming? Like a Deshawn Watson or a trade for Kirk Cousins, someone that we can identify as an actual starter? Yeah, I would have to think so. If for no other reason, survival, you know, I've been telling anybody who's willing to listen,

like in the NFL, I haven't been covering this that long. I'm 29. But for the most part, for the most part here, people who cause the need to rebuild don't get to see the rebuild through. That's usually not how it goes. So, like, if you miss the playoffs in 2021 and you have to rebuild and you miss it again in 2022, what's the job security like at that point? So I think for survival purposes, Pete Carroll and John Snyder are basically down to two options in my mind.

Like you said, you can't trot Jimmy G. out there amidstrabisky and expect to keep your job for longer than a year. So I think they're down to two options. Either you get an established guy like Kirk or you keep your eyes on the biggest cavity. qualifier in the world and see if Deshaun Watson is not going to jail, then you see if you could trade for him or you get a rookie in the draft. Get a rookie in the draft will maybe buy you some time, depending on how good or bad that rookie is. But I just think the option they have to eliminate is get the stopgap journeyman, Jimmy G, Tyrod Taylor, Geno Smith type of guy because you can't

trade Russell Wilson and then put that out there. Like you can't put Tyrod Taylor on the season ticket holder renew email in 2022. No, no. no, no, no, that's how you get canned after the 2022 season. Trust the process. Yeah, but you made us feel very old, you know, saying you're still in the 20s here, but I respect it. You have watched Russell Wilson in person, though, before we let you go, I'm just curious where you think his level of play is,

haven't seen him so often in person. Do you think he is close to his peak? And do you think, like, what do you think the rest of his career could look like here? Because I think, I do think if they believe in. their hearts, Pete Carroll and John Schneider, for all the annoying aspects to him, him wanting to be out. And there was a source in the article that said, like, this era is over with five weeks left of the season, they thought it was out. So they saw this thing coming. I believe that if they thought he was Aaron Rogers, if he was a top three or four quarterback, they still wouldn't trade

him. And so they're betting on a little bit that maybe he's, he's not at that level. What level do you think he's going to be at in the next couple of years? Yeah, they are, they are betting on that. I think part of the other part of this trade from their perspective is we ain't given him $50 million a year, you know, this time next year, which that's their prerogative. And I think, you know, when they speak next week, at least when Pete speaks, he'll probably hint at that. That's a lot of money. Unless you're for a guy, unless your guy is like competing for MVP every year, which Russ was there for like, you know, a couple years, then that's just a really, really, really high price tap. I think that Russ, at his peak, is still one of the best quarterbacks in the league. I mean, even in Mahomes' 2018 season, like, Russ was right there behind him in touchdown percentage,

despite being on, like, the most run-heavy team in the league. 2019, he was, like, MVP through, like, week nine, if you go check the numbers. 2020, he was through, like, week eight, you go check those numbers. So, like, at the peak of his powers, he can do it. I also think one thing working in his favor is just consistency. You just know what you're going to get from Russ. every year, every week, every snap, for the most part. You're going to get, like, a Pro Bowl caliber player pretty much every year of his career.

And I think that'll be the case at least for the next three or four years. So I think also, this is another thing, too. You look at when he broke his finger, right? I remember I said that doc said six, eight weeks. That was in week five. Let's imagine he took the full eight. You start from when that would have been to the end of the year and he was himself again. He was like a top five guy through five weeks and the top five guy in like last four or five

weeks with a presumably healthy finger. So as long as Russ stays away from Aaron Donald next year, the guy who broke his finger, stay away from him, then he should be back to the top five, top seven guy in 2020. They could have made a playoff run because we know Gino wasn't losing another start if you just gave Gino another bond on down. I do. I know it.

Michael Sean, before we let you go, a lot of pop on this podcast. I threw my support behind the Australian alternative rock group from Sydney, gang of youths. A lot of pop behind the scenes on Twitter. People are like, yeah, good choice. You are a music, man. What are you listening to right now? What should our audience be plugged into in your realm? I know you're a big hip-hop guy. I am. I've actually been listening to more artists who like infuse like jazz into their hip-hop. Like a lot of Kendrick Lamar, like specifically his second album, where he worked with a dude named Thundercat, who was like a really George Duke inspired, like hip-hop kind of jazzy guy.

So I definitely recommend him. No, he didn't like pay me to say that or anything. But just like when I write, this is like, I don't know how many people was writers that listen to the show. But when I write, I listen to a lot of like late 90s, early 2000s, Neo Soul, Joe Scott, Lauren Hill, DeAngelo, music Soul Child. So like, I can get down with music that precedes me a little bit, you know. That's all stuff that came out when I was like six or seven years old.

But that's kind of my vibe. Again, making us feel old because that was like in our college wheelhouse right there. Oh, DeAngelo, the slow pose. What was that song? Untitles. Untitle. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah. All right. You've done it again, Michael, Sean. And I apologize. I think I DM'd you and I called you SMD, which would be Sean Michael Dugar. But it's Michael Schoen do. Yeah, that's a bad job. But it's because you do, in your Twitter, you have.

of Dugar, comma, Michael Sean, and then it just scrambles in my head that that should be reversed as well. Is that on purpose? No, no, no, no. I'm just stupid. I wrote my Twitter bio in, like, college. That's why if you notice, it's still, like, in the third,

that third person thing I have my Twitter bio. I wrote that, like, a long time ago, and people love it, so I haven't changed. I think you're fine. That sounds like a Dan issue more than an issue for you. It sounds like it's my problem. All right, Michael Sean Dugar. Make sure you check him out at the Athletic also on the Seahawks Man to Man

podcast thank you my man uh we'll catch up with you later appreciate you guys for having me thank you there he goes michael shan dougar um that's what i'm talking about greggy if you i think you're even in your it got it's on my nerves a little bit i got to say your top one-on-one when you added bobby wagner totally cool with where you have wagner by the way where is he 17 17 totally fair he's not bobby wagner anymore but he still is a capable player who could help the right team but you make sure to, like, say, oh, he's in decline like Russell Wilson. I'm not at all certain Wilson. You also call them 34, and he's 33, these little things.

These microaggressions. He's turning it during the season. Okay. Oh, that's a problem. Yeah, that's inaccurate. These little microaggressions towards Wilson, I understand why you're not as big. Maybe I find him annoying like the Seahawks co-workers. I think that's what it is.

But I thought that was very interesting what he said there, that if you do put that full, what the doctors were telling this man to do, which is you need to have the surgery, you need to rehab it, you need to give it the time, and he didn't, and his play suffered as a result. So it was a little bit of, you could say oh, he's trying to be a good teammate, or you could look at

the other way and say he was trying to be a hero. You kind of can't have it both ways that like throw it out because he was hurt, but it's his own like hubris that put him back at least from a team perspective, but from an evaluation perspective, that's fair. Maybe I'm overrating

the end to 2020, which really stuck in my head that last six, seven weeks. But you got a factor in the first eight weeks that season two when he was an MVP. The X factor for me, Broncos forward because all these players talk nonstop. And we mentioned it, you know, when the news broke. And this article just emphasized it so much more that Russell Wilson, for all his peculiarities, seemed to just not have a lot of player fans inside the locker room. And it's not just John Schneider and Pete Carroll and the power brokers. It's like that what, that's an issue, I think, for some of these quarterbacks that are moving from team A to team B,

it's not just their play. He'll make it happen, though, I think, in Denver for a couple. You know, it's like, right, because he'll help those guys get better numbers too. It'll be super fresh early on, but, I mean, can it be sustainable? And one last thing that Michael Sean pointed out, which I agree with, when you kind of brought up is the, is he in decline to somebody that's been boots on the ground there. He said no. Yes, but there's gray area.

It's like, yes, they might have decided they wanted to move on without him, because they think they're better in the long run. But the fact that they don't want to pay him $45 to $50 million doesn't necessarily mean they don't think he's an excellent star quarterback. That's just not the model that they think is the most effective way to build a champion, which you can absolutely make the case in the modern NFL, that it's very hard to build a champion when you give that much to one player. It's a thorny situation.

And in a lot of ways, I think the way it ended with Wilson not playing up to his high level and the Seahawks going into decline. A lot of that, I think, went into just a relationship running its course, performance getting caught up in that, and everyone needing a fresh start. Right. That's sort of what I was getting at, like, a year ago, where it was like, on some level, they had to make a choice as owners because it didn't seem tenable. That if you really wanted to build around Russell Wilson, it probably was time for a regime

change. They didn't want to do that, so it was time for Russell Wilson change. The only concern here is there's no Mike Munchack in Denver. the offensive line coach, and that talent group up front. He might be complaining about his past pro. I'm getting hit too much. I'm just saying. That was such a great interview, you guys.

I'm just laughing. Not only Dan, did you get his name wrong? But he's, you know, younger. And I'm just laughing at him opening up his DMs and you saying, hey, SMD, which is an acronym that people use for other, that means something. So I'm laughing at him looking at that, making you say. I didn't even think about that. So that is hilarious.

That's a tough one. It was unintentional. But I'm glad everyone just Googled Urban Dictionary. So, yeah, I just had to let you guys know, like, what that. Oh, that's awesome. What that means? That is amazing. I hope.

Well, what was his response? He replied. Okay. He replied. I mean, if he didn't reply, it would have been. He arrived on the show. So that was good. He knew it was a bunch of olds.

We were. young. Why are you so self-conscious about getting older, Greg? Why do you keep bringing it up? And why do you keep throwing all of us under the bus with your take on where I am in my life? I like, I don't feel myself. It's just a good, it's a good source of comedy and attitude. Wait, do you want to hear the DM?

Yeah, yeah. Amazing. SMD, thanks for coming on the show today. Such a jarring right turn. You have to follow up and make that right. Right. Well, you said, and that's why I said yikes, and you guys were just like, yeah, I got his name wrong. And I'm like, what? Like, if someone DM me that, I'd be like, what? I love it.

All right, I'm running. Dad is live, live replying on the show. L-O-L-S-D, it's even worse upon closer inspection. Sorry. What are we? All right. Anyway, I love Michael Sean Dugar. That guy gets it and he covers that team really well. So he is, we know where he is, Ricky. He's in the file. He'll be coming back on when Pete Carroll and John Schneider are swept out of the building a year from now.

It could happen. All right. Before we go, let's just get caught up on the news of the day. Mary Kay Cabot, not on the show this week. Tony Grossey got the call and Sessler was the booker on that. Just parse that however you might. Absolutely do not, if you're listening, anyone at all, do not take any of that as factual.

That is an absurd factual. Wait, whoa, whoa. It was funny, though, that... I built consensus around... If anyone wants to know how this show works, I can play a novel. It worked differently, though. I thought I was interested. It worked differently this week.

Dan... Highly efficient, is that what I would listen to us. Dan nominated you. He said, Mark, this is a big moment for you. It was almost like... And he was like, you are going to be in charge of booking the Browns. I pointedly put Mark in charge. You make the choice.

You were saying, don't build consent. Just make a choice. In machine-like fashion, we had a guest about... 90 minutes later. No, you did great, and I thought Tony was great. But let's not bend it as fiction that you didn't make the call. Well, let's say that I knew, potentially that Mary Kay had this report that we're about to discuss coming up, and we'll talk to her next.

Mark is the equivalent of, like, the middle manager who never wants to make any decision. I don't want to be any, I don't want to be in charge of anyone. It saves out of it. And I love you for this, Mark. One of my favorite Markisms and text is whenever we're, like, planning things for the show about once, a week and there will be a mark text that just says Greg, bend me, shape me. Well, that

also, you know, not from your guys' musical era, or mine. But you don't want to bend or shape, so it's a catch-jointed. Well, it is not sometimes the easiest gaggle of individuals to suggest ideas among, but Wes and I, we often use that as a code term because it was just like,

drag us to the show, and then when the lights go on, we perform. It's messed up the balance here, because now you're the only one being... Well, that's the thing. I stand Out as where, yeah, I think Wes and I were Tiring. Think about what would happen if we all had that mindset, though.

We wouldn't be here right now. But you cannot have four people battling. We already, every show already is about 80 to 90 texts. So it's like, do you want me to add another 80 or 90 where I'm trying? Do you think the show is successful? I think it is, it is, it's that attention to show building behind the scenes that plays a major role in the success and the audience we've built. I would like to say that it's much more along with that

some people when you know when that little light goes on that's when you start to operate deliver there will be yeah chemistry that's number one there will be a time let's say you know anywhere between one and ten years or now where those texts don't have been as much and we all show up when the red light turns on and then the show will nose dive how about have me have me host a show from A to Z

this offseason I'll do all the work and we will see what the product is. The product will be spicy. I love that idea. Just one. No, one week. Give them the whole week. Give me a month.

Give them a year. All these other people have a month. 2020. You're mad again. No, I'm not mad. I'm actually, we're in day 10 of that month. SMD and tell me the news. Oh, we're still doing news.

I know. Mary Kay Cabot, who got snubbed by Mark Sessler on the show this week, reports that the Browns have Derek Carr on their radar. We mentioned that earlier, but that's right. That's where the reporting came from that Mary Kay says, you know, the Browns who are laying in the weeds here, we talked obviously with Grosie and said it seems like they're, at some point we need to believe the Browns when they say that Baker is their guy this year.

Derek Carr, would you rather have Derek Carr or Kurt Cousins, by the way, Mark? That's a tough one. In a vacuum. Who would you rather have? I would probably take Derek Carr based on what I thought he did this past season and with an organization internal. I want neither. It's like you would have to,

the thing about why those are annoying quarterbacks is they're just good enough where you would probably have to give them a new contract that paid him $35 to $42 million. No interest. I don't know if you want to do that. To me, it's an easy answer. I think Derek Carr has been getting better.

I think he's better than Baker. I think he's better than Kirk Cousins. And I think the whole like paint by numbers, Derek Carr doesn't create on his own, maybe he doesn't use his athleticism as much as very safe. That's kind of perfect for Kevin's, That's like the Kyle Shanahan type of guy. So the fact that they're interested, I think there's something here.

I think there's something here. And if I was a Browns fan, I think that is a big enough upgrade that I'm. And what do the, what do the Raiders do then if they were? Maybe they would be interested in giving Baker a shot here on his fifth year. Yeah, you mentioned the Josh McDaniels fascination. Right. And he's a little more. He's a little more.

To me, Baker is not that paint by number. If there was going to be a great Baker career, I don't know if it's in a like go one to B every one to two with your progressions every every play has a right answer on it and you should do that right answer that's what I want out of my Kyle Shanahan little mechanical that's not Baker I can see Baker in a Raiders uniform too when I hear Greg say if I'm a Browns fan I'm excited about Derek Hart's like I am a Browns fan and I'll tell you how a Browns fan feels about I just I guess I'm more excited than than I am

How does it feel? Lyle Collins, active trade talks around the offensive line, the tackle for the Cowboys. Rap sheet reports that the Cowboys are looking at deal the tackle. No deal is imminent at this time, according to the pro football network. But the Cowboys, as we talked about earlier this week, are in a lot of cap distress right now.

And if they move Collins, that's $10 million off. books. He's a good starting player. It just as a reminder, a lot is going to happen in the next five or six days, especially on the Cowboys. Lawrence, Cooper, Tyrant Smith, Lyle Collins. Like, these guys are up for grabs. Oh, by the way, Connor Williams, who was a starter for them, I don't think is going to be re-signed and was their starting guard. So usually if these reports get out there, that's usually a sign he's going to be an ex-cowboy. I have a feeling. This is just a gut feeling that DeMarcus Lawrence calling their bluff and saying, like, I'm not taking payout.

We're like, actually, okay, we're going to keep you still. Like, I think they're going to make room and just keep to Marcus Lawrence. And maybe Lyle Collins is one way to do that. And finally, some notable cuts, players that are entering the open market, the Lions cut, a former splashy free agent signing in Trey Flowers after three years, Landon Collins and the commanders part ways after a huge contract a few years ago as well. and Roger Saffold is also out, a guard who has fallen off a little bit, and now he opens, hits the open market.

Any of these guys, well, I assume at least two of them, Gregi, are entering the top 100. Only one. Trey Flowers will. No Landon Collins, huh? Landon Collins was the 172nd ranked safety out of 176 safeties a year ago. He's like a safety that can't cover. And he was hurt.

He played linebacker and made some good in. All three of these guys got monster market setting deals at one point. Trey Flowers just got caught in a regime change where he doesn't fit that scheme. But he, and he's been hurt a decent amount. But I can imagine a Patriots-like team or the Raiders giving him some good money. He's in the top 100. Saffold was like 112. And so that was right at the spot as like, do you write the little write-up?

No, you know. Okay. And lastly, Enron, Rosh. Roger Saffold, who was on the Titans, he tweeted on last week that Bad Bunny is the greatest concert I've ever been to. Just a little note there. A little peek behind the curtain that he's not just the football player. He's a man, and he's a man who likes music,

especially music from Bad Bunny. Do you have any hip-hop recommendations, Greg? I know that lit up your Christmas tree when I teed up Michael Sean Duggar there. No, I'm just, I'm old. I'm just... What is up with you? You don't strike me as a guy that would struggle with this with mortality and getting older.

I just bringing it up as a way to make everyone feel uncomfortable. But even only like six months ago, you were heavily into that musical scene. Why suddenly are you now is it not accessible to you? No, no, I do, but I don't have any like new hot things. Gotcha. Bad Bunny born Benito, Antonio Martinez, Akazio. I mean, Bad Bunny's.

big time. He's probably playing Madison Square Gardens. Huge. Huge. Huge. All right. Ricky. Anything else?

No, I think you guys really nailed it. So is this like the last time we see you for a week and a half or something? Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah. Yep. This time next week, I will have my toes in the sand or drink in my hand. At the metrics from last year. She said, what is literally the most downloaded week of the entire year of the around the NFL podcast?

because I want to miss that. Is it free agency? That's our producer. Really? Right there. It's similar to like a big regular season. Ricky, and let's go over the ground rules again of this ill time vacation. Yeah.

It is bad news behind the scenes unless somebody comes back with a ring on their finger. Okay, so that's the one clear. And there's also no shenanigans here. If there is no ring shared from one partner to the other, you must come back. hat in hand on the show and apologize for missing the free agency. That seems fair. Okay. And if you come back with a ring or Jet comes back with a ring, I don't know how it works,

then we will not scold you. I think they both have rings. Well, also, Erica, if Erica's not purchased a ring, then it reduces. Why would they both have a ring? By the vibe here. I proposed to my wife. I didn't get a ring until I was married. I know, but we don't know.

Yeah, because men get to go out in the club when they're engaged and not have rings on their fingers. It's stupid. But you are in a gay romance. If there is a... A gay romantic novel? Like, what is this mean? I understand your question. I don't think it changes anything.

When the engagement happens, you don't both come back with the rings. You could? Sometimes, sometimes two partners... Greg, shut up. I'm asking the gay woman. Yeah, Greg, answer. Just saying, you can do whatever you want.

That was like the... Eric, actually, don't speak. Greg, tell me what happens. Yeah, Greg, explain how it works. Two gay women get engaged. I'm just, I'm making fun of you, just being like, all right, let's see her the thing. It's very important, again.

Let's hear what happens. Yes, we're a little bit older. It's important, you're playing ketchup a little bit, and you're trying to learn about these other sides of the world. And I'm asking Erica, who's boots on the ground. Not Greg, boots not on the ground. Ricky, boots, ground. Yeah, well, okay, so it depends.

A lot of, it, like, it does depend, but a lot of times there is one person, but a lot of times because gay couples are better than straight people, and I'll just say that because that's fact. Sometimes they'll both propose at the same time and not know the other one was going to do it. So that happens a lot. It does seem reading between the lines that she thinks she's coming back with a ring

or that she's bringing a ring. All right. How about this? One more caveat. Definitely not. Going to be an issue that nobody has a ring. We're going to toast to you if you are engaged when you come back. I hope so.

If you're thinking it's going to be a dual proposal and she doesn't do it and then you do it and she says no, just let us know privately and then we won't scold you. Never say it again and I just thought. A lot will have happened in your life. Yeah, I'm not going to be showing up the week after a free agency if she says no and I'm staying in Cancun and never. I don't doubt on any level that we would absolutely, that would find a way to become a discussion point on this show. Remember when Jet dumped you on your Cancun trip and you bought that ring? Once the initial hurt and sting passes, it's a talk. It's hilarious.

All right, let's go. Ricky, enjoy your trip. Good luck with everything. Thank you. Thank you. And we'll be back on the television side tomorrow Friday. Make sure you DVR it or however you get your traditional television. It's up to you.

You guys are old. I mean, I don't know what? Just move the little liars on top of your little box. And then we'll be back a full week of shows on Monday. Just like tell the kid to walk up and just turn that. dial get those bunny ears full show full week of shows for

free agency in the start of a new league year so be there for that until then this is Dan Hansa signing out for the whole gang Benito Antonio Martinez and Casio bad bunny heed the call Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here.

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