NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Training Camp Surprises

Episode Date: August 1, 2016

A room filled with heroes -- Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler – discuss the latest NFL news, including DeAndre Hopkins wanting a new deal in Houston and the continued hold out of first-round pick Joey Bosa. Then, the heroes examine some surprises from the first week of training camp and share the impact they can have on the 2016 season. Plus, why do people like paintball?Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Hey, everybody. Before your show, this is Alex Gelhard from the Fantasy Live podcast, telling you to check out our latest episode where we hit all the recent news, including Ryan Fitzpatrick's signing and which veterans are on the pup to start the preseason. We also recap our 12-team mock draft and look at training camp battles you need to watch for fantasy. Check out the episode on NFL.com slash podcasts, iTunes, or your favorite podcast app. Now enjoy your show. The Around the NFL podcast are beholden to nothing and no one. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis and I am joined by a room filled with heroes. Mark Sessler, Chris Wessling, and Greg Rosethal.

What's up, boys? Hey, Dan. Bodlight, I said. All right. All righty. Not bad. But light, I said. But no one.

remembers when that happened the first time. Is that accurate? I have no awareness. I think that it's a little bit lost in space as an ad campaign. I send out before every show, an email that is a rundown of the podcast. And I included an image of the Bud Light, I said, cartoon character from the advertising campaign by Anheuser-Busch. I missed that, but you only sent that 10 minutes ago, so you can't really get on me from missing.

The composition of that beer is very fitting. for the All Water August campaign, which Connor Orr has started today. Oh, no. Are you guys on another kick? Yes. Another faux kick? Yes. Connor is drinking, well, today it was 10 large tumblers of water, and he's going to do it every day.

As am I. I know we're coming off a long week for Mark Sessler when he came into work today with a Rich Eisen podcast cap on. Well, it's, yeah, here's the thing. I mean, I'm trying to dress and not wake my entire. house up. I've discussed this before. Greg doesn't buy any of this theory, but I can't see my clothing if I don't put it out the night before. So I should, I mean, I'm wearing probably the worst ensemble. It's nothing to do with the rich-ized and podcast hat.

Well, it was just a mess. And so I just put a hat on it. It's like the hat day. We probably could use some merchandise. That's the, that's the message I think I'm really trying to drive home. Where are the hats for our podcast? Essentially, you are a billboard right now for the former number one podcast of this website. Mark and I had this Now we're the number one is what you're trying to say. We were going, a year ago at this time, we were going to produce our own merchandise, but we kind of ran into the buzz saw of the NFL and our own laziness. You know, by the way, that would have broken up the entire group if you guys got in some type of money scheme to profit off.

No, you guys would be included. But we'd be cut in? Yeah. We completely. We actually, no, we had an email going where we came up with all our ideas and asked for your guys help. And you were like, no, it's not. the right time to do this well i think that that was one of those where as as your boss at the time i just i kind of just listened was like well this will die out soon enough i'm not going to comment

there's no point in getting involved all right gregg you're right um this is the monday edition of the around the nfl podcast sponsored by a no one beloved by millions beholden to nothing and nobody yeah that's true that's true and I did, jokingly, we had our reflection celebration banquet for the softball team Friday night. I tweeted that it was sponsored by Dix. That got people excited that perhaps there was a sponsorship in place with the Great White Whale. But nothing yet. Still waiting to hear it from you, Dick!

Sponsored by bad decisions. You did an excellent job with that party, by the way. Dan handed out awards to each and every person on the team, and he put a lot of work into it. I would say put a lot of work into it. I thought you put more work than most people do into other people these days. As did, Lakeisha. Yes, Lakeisha on our desk helped with the arts and crafts aspect of it. But that was fun, and now, you know, we turned the page over to a new season for the shield.

And it is a new season in the NFL guys. Most teams are almost a week in to their training camp. So there is no shortage of things to talk about on today's show. So a lot of news to get through. We will also, and this is, you know, you don't want to get too pumped up about what's happening in training camp this early. But, you know, we want to throw out some of the biggest surprises of the first week at training camp. Greg, you don't think this is premature. I am the author of a camp winners and losers column today.

So to call anything premature would seem hypocritical. You know what I mean? Fair enough. I thought it was a little early to talk winners and losers on this podcast, but there are things we have been surprised by so far. Right. And I, like in the columns, it's just things, it's just little nuggets. It's not, you're not saying anyone's that there's time to panic,

but there's little development. Essentially, Wes just called your article premature. Well, you can. If you read it with the context, it makes sense. There's endless bandwidth to put these articles online, but on this podcast, it may be better to talk about it later in the week than early. You know what I'm doing, Wes. I'm just trying to get a picture between you and Greg.

I understand the fissure. And the Kiss and Cousins, you guys are drinking only water for August. That's what this is? Well, wait, we didn't. We're drinking. We're drinking. We're drinking a lot of water. Pure H2O.

No soda. Well, there might be a few beers. This is a revolutionary tactic. Drink a lot of water to be healthier. Well, but you know what? A lot of people don't do it, Greg. Even though there's a lot of good things we could do for ourselves, People don't do those things.

All right. But before we get into anything, we check behind the glass with the Irishman. What's up, buddy? Dan, I told you this the other night, but I just want to reiterate it. The award you gave me is my favorite award that I've ever gotten. That would be Stretch Run Adonis.

Oh, yeah. The Irishman for his great play in the month of July. I've been on a lot of teams. That was my favorite one. Wow. Well, that's good because you helped us. I helped you in the world keeps turning. Let's do some news.

What is the coming in the air? Yeah. And there's screams from everywhere. What is the significance of the 2009 JZ Rihanna hit Run This Town? I feel the season coming. Yeah. There's no more weekend without football. I was with you.

I could feel it. All right. I like it. Let me hear it again. Feel it coming in the air. Yeah. There's screens from everywhere. He didn't do too much in that clip.

Yeah. Yeah. That was good. What were you saying, Mark? The male person in that song did not have much. The male person. Jay Z didn't say much. The Mr. Z fellow.

Yes. The day that Mark finally plummeted past me in the pop culture ring. All right. Let's start with some injury news in the NFL. Unfortunately, there's always going to be who is the first notable NFL player to suffer an injury of some severity at training camp. Stevie Johnson, the Chargers wide out, is facing surgery after suffering a torn meniscus during Sunday's practice.

Mike Silver reported that on Sunday. Added Silver, it is, quote, unclear whether this will end Johnson's season, but the development is bad news for San Diego's offense who are counting on Johnson to be one of their, you know, biggest guys in terms of production. Rap sheet reported that Johnson will seek a second opinion. and have the surgery per source of knowledge of the situation. 31, excuse me, 45 catches for 497 yards of three touchdowns last season. He's 31 years old.

Mark, how big a hit is this for the Chargers if Johnson misses a bulk of the season or the whole thing? They're more loaded than they were a year ago. It's a good thing that they signed Travis Benjamin. I think it just means a bigger role for everyone else in that office. Would it be Inman, who's the backup slot guy? Inman, and it's disappointing to me because I thought this offense might have the most underappreciated wide receiver core or receiving core, if you clued the tight ends in the league with Travis Benjamin coming in to play the Deshaun Jackson rule, and Johnson and Rivers had an obvious rapport last year.

The other thing is it just gets you, if you're a Chargers fan, you're thinking, oh, not again. Right. With the injuries. They were the most unlucky team in the NFL last year when it came to injuries. So for them to be the first team to have an injury. like this in camp is disappointing. And I really like this offense because Rivers has so many options to throw to, whether it's the running backs, a tight ends, and then those three wide receivers.

There's not really a receiver group quite like them. None of them are the conventional, big, powerful. They're all these, they're all route runners and herky jerky, and I kind of wanted to see what Philip Rivers did with all these guys, and to be disappointing if Stevie Johnson's out for most of this year. And in other Chargers news, Joey Bosa, the first round pick, did not report to camp of teammates on Friday. He is, now that Ryan Fitzpatrick is signed,

this is now the most maddening contract standoff in the game right now. It's all about that offset money. The new CBA had mostly wiped out rookie holdouts, which were the bane of the NFL summer experience. But Bosa is digging in, and both sides don't want to back down, Wes. And this is just kind of annoying, isn't it? It's annoying, but it's not just about the offset money. I think it's mostly about the bonus money.

He wants all of it up front. Chargers want to pay him at least half of it in March. So this is a standoff that may not end anytime soon. I mean, the chargers, like you were saying downstairs, teams do this in different ways, but the chargers have not bent on this contract issue for years. They don't want to do that way. They don't want to set precedent, but it's just the structure of the bonus.

And it's a really strange thing. think there's any reason to come down on either side that the chargers are wrong or both is wrong it's just they're both wrong it's weird that something seemingly this small could get in the way of a guy starting his rookie career because it's just talking about whether he gets all of the bonus right now or whether he gets it half now and half in march basically it sounds like they they want to they want to wait until march to start investing some of that money and they think that's a big gap but that that that seems crazy it's also a family traditional his dad was drafted number 16 and he held out of almost all of his training camp in

1987 with you're proud of me now dad well i mean if you're joey boss are you annoyed at your camp at this point you're so you haven't gotten this done you're not on the field yeah i think that's what it's going to take he's going to have to go to his reps and say look i'm ready to play football i'm i'd be annoyed at both i mean the team also seems like it's kind of you know we were talking about this downstairs it's a family run business it's a little i think most teams would have just but like, let's get this guy. That all the thing's ridiculous. Get it done.

Let's go. In another holdout news or a holdout that didn't last very long at all, DeAndre Hopkins is back with the Houston Texans a day after choosing not to report to training camp. The star wide receiver ended his brief holdout on Sunday. He released a statement to rap sheet saying he was disappointed in the Texans organization about not wanting to enter into negotiations, but he was focused on 2016, blah, blah, blah.

Hopkins, who has exploded into, you know, really, I think he's caught some people by surprises all of a sudden he's been one of the best wide receivers in the league when you look at his numbers, but he's not being paid like it. He's slated to make just $1 million in base salary this season. He's got two years left on his deal, and he's trying to restructure. I always have, Greg, a little bit. My sympathy is always, you know, at a lower level, you're Michael Bennett's. When you sign the contract, you play the contract out.

But this is a little different. It's a rookie deal that he's far. out exceeded. Where do you stand on this? I think he deserves a new contract. And Rick Smith and the general, you know, the general manager of the Texans who also got an extension this week. And he thought it was counterintuitive for Hopkins to skip work.

And I think they impressed on Hopkins. You have a better chance of getting your contract if you just show up now. But there's no doubt that he is not just one of the best wide receivers, but the most one of the most valuable to his own team. you take him out of that mix that offense falls apart yeah he totally deserves more money but that's just not the way things work in the NFL that you get it with two years it happens but it's rare and i don't blame a team for saying hey if i give hopkins this money and then the next guy with two years left on his contract is going to point to hopkins and say i want i want what he got

but they did it to j j wott and i know hopkins isn't jay watt but to me how many hopkins is are going to come around those are two guys who are in our top 20 players in the entire NFL if you make the exception for what you do it for hopkins plus if you're if you're hopkins you see brock osweiler get a four year 72 million dollar deal right of five games or he was like okay and you're blowing the roof off the off the league uh year after year now it's just these holdouts don't work that often for the players um speaking of texans wide receivers the greatest wide receiver in texans here history is andre johnson he had a let's face it a woeful one year stint in indianapolis and i got to be honest with you guys completely honest with you, I thought that Andre Johnson retired.

And I thought I wrote a post or somebody wrote a post where we talked about his Hall of Fame chances and we did a whole segment on the podcast. This must have been a dream. It might have been when he got cut and we just sort of figured the meaningful part of his career is over and we had that conversation. I don't remember it. Maybe it was a dream. I mean, I like that you're dreaming about Andre Johnson.

Perhaps I don't know, but I could have swore there was a retirement press conference. There wasn't. He's 35 years old, and he has signed a contract with the Tennessee Taitoons. And less than 24 hours after making that signing, Mike Mularky, a man who will never lead you down the wrong path, was quoted as saying Johnson, quote, still looks like he can play. So Andre Johnson coming off, yes, a bad season with Indianapolis West. But is there a chance he has something in the tank with a great young quarterback in Marcus Marriota. Is there a chance? Sure, there's always a chance, but he didn't help the

Colts offense last year. I don't know why people would think he's going to help the Titans offense. In fact, you can say he helped sabotage the Colts offense last year. He couldn't get open at all. He couldn't separate from defensive backs, which is usually the sign that it's end of the road. I wouldn't expect him to make the Titans. If you looked at what they were doing over the weekend, Tajay Sharp, and Richard Matthews were out wide, Kendall right in the slot, and they're not going to cut Doreal Green Beckham. So it looks like you've got Harry Douglas, Andre Johnson, and who's their other guy going for that?

Justin Hunter going for that final wide receiver spot if they keep five. Are they telling Andre Johnson you have a good shot to make this team? I mean, it feels like a camp buddy. Why is it a two-year contract if it's a flyer type move? It's one of those fake second years. Yeah, and it's essentially, I believe he has the minimum-based salary. So he wanted to continue his career, and I wouldn't say it's depressing because a guy should want to do what he loves to do. This is his last chance.

But as someone that just watched Andre Johnson be such a badass for so long, there's a little bit of sadness to see him take a minimum salary deal from the Titans to battle for a roster spot he probably won't get against Justin Hunter. You know what I mean? It's just too bad. I mean, he's two years removed from having 100 plus catches. What if you said then two years from now, you're going to hope that you win the fifth wide receiver spot for the Titans? I mean, maybe he displaces sharp. I mean, that's a fifth round rookie out of UMass.

You never know. He might show up and look better. But this is a guy who signed a three-year, $21 million contract a year ago, and now he's taking minimums out. I get excited at the thought of DeMarco Murray and Andre Johnson depressing people at the same time on the same field. That's what I look forward to. That gets me juiced.

I looked at it more as a negative reaction towards what Doreal Green Beckham and Justin Hunter are showing them. Because those are big physical receivers that aren't starting right now for them. And to me, that's the role that I guess they want Johnson to help with. They seem to have a lot of guys that refuse to be the number one wide out there. Yeah, I think if you're a Titans fan, you can look at it the other way. It's positive because they're bringing Andre Johnson in there to show those guys how to be a pro. Let's move on. Let's talk some extensions, guys.

We'll start with Darius Slay. The Detroit Lions announced that Slay has a new contract extension. This came down on Friday. Rapsheet report it's a four-year deal with $48 million with 23.1 guaranteed. He was entering the final year of his rookie contract. News first came from PFT. He is, that puts him in the top 10 of cornerbacks. Is he worthy of that money?

Greg. Yeah, I like Darius Slay. West was a big Darius Slay fan. I like teams locking up a guy that maybe he's not as well-known, but they know how good he is. And if he got to free agency, he would have made a heck of a lot more than this. He was number 51 on my top 100 players list,

and I think he's the top five or six cornerback right now. From mid-October to last year through the end of the season, he was lights out as good as just about any cornerback in the league. Right. Would you rather have Darius, if you're just starting a team, you don't know who the coaches are. Just forget the scheme. Would you rather have Darius Slay on your team for the next few years or Josh Norman?

I think I'd rather have Darius Slay. I'd feel better. Yes. Another move. This one, you know, we have our segment coming up a little later. Biggest surprises of camp so far. He was a little teaser. This would probably be my biggest surprise that I learned over the weekend.

Eric Fisher got a new massive deal from the Kansas City Chiefs. The new, the former first overall pick in the draft that was at 2013. That's right. signed a six-year, $63 million deal, $40 million in guaranteed money under contract for the next six seasons. This is a move that surprised me, Greg, because this is a guy that I thought it was pretty widely understood, disappointed since coming into the league, and was kind of something of a, you know. He was a Greg Rosenthal whipping boy. Yeah, he's just another guy.

He was the personal whipping boy of Greg Rosenthal. Well, he's... So how did he get paid? He is the least known number one overall pick in a long time. So I just like to kind of talk about him because everyone forgot he existed. He had a very disappointing first two seasons in the NFL. Last season, the conventional wisdom was he was solid. Maybe not great, but he was solid.

Of course, he started the year at right tackle. They moved him back to left. I mean, he didn't even have a position. So this surprised me a lot, too. And I wonder if it's a little bit of confirmation bias. I don't know if that's the right. right word for it. This is John Dorsey's first pick of his tenure with Andy Reed as General Mann. I hope it's confirmation bias because you wrote that in your piece. Right, but I don't

know if that's what that means exactly. It's basically just saying, hey, look, I made a good pick. Look at this contract that this guy earned. Well, it's not a lot of money to throw around to that, to make that kind of a point. There's also, there's conscious. I mean, he's, he is better than he was as a rookie. He's, there's been some improvement. And we've, we've not seen him play a long time. Sometimes what happens in the offseason the way these coaches feel about him in the unit that they want to build. Maybe it made more sense to them than it does to us. It seems

a little bit of an odd deal. John Dorsey spending a lot of cash if that's what he's doing just to make a point. I love what Greg's hinting at though, that there's at least a possibility that John Dorsey is fully aware that Eric Fisher is not that good at all, but gave him another

several million dollars, tens of millions of dollars to perhaps help with his own job security. So, I've not saying. He didn't want to get a hot butt. You know, he's thinking to himself, ooh. He's kind of reading between the lines here, Dan. The seat's feeling warm.

I'm John Dorsey. That's John Dorsey. Why would his seat is warm? It's the wrong Eric. What about Eric Barry? He's coming off. Yeah, that's a good point, too. Does that sound like a guy that, you know?

Well, first of all, why would his butt be even warm after a 10-game winning streak with a pretty, you know, a roster? this is the beginning of that hotness was not in good shape i'm not saying it would be a conscious thought but maybe he believes in this guy so much he's seeing things that aren't there it's kind of a subconscious we know what you said though going on he only allowed four sacks last year and two hits according to pro football focus which is pretty much in line with what a guy like andrew whitworth of the bengals did and he's a pro bowler i'm not saying eric fisher's on that level but if you look at their run blocking they lose jemal charles and they

still dominate. I think they might have finished first and rushing behind two running backs that nobody had ever heard of entering the season. Look, he was hardly the only person that loved Eric Fisher. People thought he had an incredible skill set. And if they think that they're buying low, that this guy's just reaching the peak of his career now, and they're kind of locking him in at a low price. That would be the thought.

Can we stop talking about Eric Fisher? You really were the one that wanted to keep going. You got your whole hot butt routine? It was good. Tackle talk. It was fine. It was good. It was good.

Let's move on. Talk about a general manager who, speaking of hot butts, it was a scorching butt. Second degree burns on his buttocks. Reggie McKenzie, after a rough start to his tenure with the Oakland Raiders, but it's gotten better and better. So he's made some bad moves along the way, but started drafting better. He's got some pieces in place now, a lot of optimism around the Raiders. And apparently the team believes in Reggie because he just got a four-year extension.

This came down on Friday night. and that means that Reggie McKenzie goes from a guy that looked like he was in deep trouble in peril a couple years ago to a guy that has more job security than anybody, Chris Wesson. Well, Mark Davis, their owner came out a couple of off-seasons ago and says, I know you can deconstruct a roster because, well, he didn't say this, but my dad left the roster in pretty bad shape.

Let's see you reconstruct it. And that's exactly what he did. He started out signing a bunch of over-the-hill veterans, and for the life of me, I still can't understand how that scouting department signed off on a match job trade after it was obvious the guy could no longer throw a football but since then like you said he hit on calio mac derrick car and amari cooper and that's find a better under 20 25 and under trio any team in the nfl than that trio i mean we we critiqued them heavily as a group at a time when the raiders were doing

stuff that felt very desperate and they were throwing a lot of money around at veterans that had been good a year and a half two years previous. But if you don't draft well, you're not going to have a team that has longstanding success. And the Raiders had these high picks. And you know what? It seems obvious. Just pick well and pick good players. How many teams

have had top five, top ten picks a year after year and can't do that? Some good free agent pickups too. And you mentioned we were critical, but really I think there was one man that was the most critical of Reggie McKenzie. And people have noticed. I actually got a

text this weekend from Reggie right after he signed the contract. This is a bid. This was, no, it was one of the first things he wanted to do. It's happening. It sent it at midnight. And it just says, uh, tell your boy West to suck it. Whoa. You all the weakest thing. Goodbye. Yeah, Brandon. Very good. Uh, see how that work

nicely? Mark, how do you feel about Greg using your bid against Wes? My thing is not a bit. Mine is, I am, you know, I'm hearing from Greg sporadically, and it's disturbing. Not over the weekend. He went totally dark, right? If you know Reggie, you know he has a long memory, and he's going to use that stuff for motivation. Here's our job, as I see.

When people are doing their job well, you say they're doing their job well. When they're doing their job poorly, you say they're doing their job poorly. Or else I could just kind of pussyfoot around like other people do. I like, I know. I just like giving you. So basically. Reggie was the one who took offense. I can understand from his vantage point where he's coming from.

Reggie got trashed when he deserved to get trashed. So, Wes, what you're saying basically is if someone is doing a poor job and it becomes apparent that they shouldn't be in that job, you're going to let him know. I wouldn't be good at my job if I didn't point out when other people are doing things poorly. Right. You walk right up to him and you say. You all the weakest think. Goodbye. Honesty, it's important in any business.

One counterpoint. I know we're in like hour eight of news here. but isn't there something to be said for more organizational patients with a lot of these situations? Absolutely. The Raiders, they made it very easy because some of the crazy stuff they're doing, but I mean, more teams are blowing the thing up after two years and they can stay in that place, over and over. Cincinnati, why West quit on the Bengals, where they just kept guys employed that shouldn't have been employed. Isn't there the flip side where if you're too patient, you're just wasting here?

I'm not saying go 14 years with it, but the Raiders were a candidate to, just to detonate the whole machine after a season and a half, where would they be if they did that? We have to save that for the Cincinnati Bengals inept tire-fire in 1990s podcast. Right. I meant more, not the Marvin Lewis era. I meant more.

They were overly patient with some real idiots. Jolla Coslet and Leboot. Can I just say, like, you know, I know we're all, you know, pat and old Reggie on the back, and it seems like a pretty good team, but let's see, you know, winning season. That's fair. Well, they're under a lot of pressure right now.

Go back to the playoffs. They haven't been to the playoffs in like 12 years, 13 years. That's fair. I'd like to see Derek Carr played a lot better than he did in the final two months last season. Another extension, general manager Rick Smith of the Texans extended through 2020. He is entering his 11th season as the team's general manager. And, you know, this is another team that made the playoffs last year. Got embarrassed, of course, in the postseason.

The owner threw down the hammer, said go get a quarterback or else. got a quarterback, and now in a lot of ways, Greg, Rick Smith is tied to the Brock Osweiler experience, isn't he? He is, but he has great security, and this really speaks to what Mark was just talking about. The Texans, I think, value stability more than just about any organization. They stuck with Gary Kubiak for a very long time as head coach did not want to make a change. Rick Smith has been around since 06. He's only 46 years old. He's now signed through 2020.

If he gets to the – whether he makes it to the end of that contract or not, He just made 14 years as the NFL general manager contract. That's a pretty good run. Don't you think if he had found a quarterback a few years ago he'd be seen as one of the better GMs in the league? Considering who drafts better in the first round than the Texans? That's a great point that they have managed to stay competitive for the most part. There's some exceptions a couple years ago with, what were they, three and 13?

Two and 14. Two and 14. Devin Clowny, you know, juries out there, but I don't know if that's his fault. Right. But for the most part, they've been a community. consistent competitive team without a quarterback, which is very tricky to pull off.

Helps to have the greatest defensive game records Lawrence Taylor. But even before then, with Schaub, and I don't really count, he was never a top 10 type of quarterback, they were a good team, not a great team.

I like their owners. He's a good type of owner because he's held multiple people's feet to the fire, but he's also at the same time patient. It's a good mix. Like, it's not some floating organization where the owner is deep.

detached. That's no, that's not good. Good, good stadium. You're getting the Super Bowl again this year. If you're doing an owner's, you know, effectiveness power rankings, McNair is going to be, he's going to be up there. And you could read between the lines with the last six or seven minutes of Mark Sessler's opinions, right? Oh, what? I know where you're going to here. This is what you want from the Browns. So absolutely, but I think, I thought you were going to. There's no charm. Our bosses to value stability and consistency. Well, that wouldn't be terrible either. No, that would be great.

I don't have a boss. I just float through this industry now. Wait, but that's what you want, right? I think any sports fan would want that. You want to see your team make good decisions and stick with good people, and that's not been the case in Cleveland. Reggie Bush is a member of the Buffalo Bills. There it comes.

Incentive-laden. One-year deal. What's going on with you, Greg? Just felt like the show. Are you that excited on Reggie Bush in 2016? I was really, I was really excited. Just their backfields fascinating. Felt like the show needed some energy.

He is, Reggie Bush, he's getting dangerously. And, you know, respect to Reggie Bush, but how much do we have to talk about the guy? He has not done much outside. You know, he had some nice season. New Orleans, did some, ran for 1,000 yards once, and it was treated like he ran for 2,000 in Miami one year. But Reggie Bush is not really a difference.

in the league anymore, is he? I feel like you've been saying this for three years. He was good for those two years in Miami, by the way. He's like your version of Eric Fisher. I mean, you remember what a big deal they made of it when he ran for 1,000 yards? Marron. It's, you know, 2016. Well, it's gone full circle.

He was known as a great return man at one point. And now, by the sound of it, I think they just want him to be a return specialist just about with that runs a little bit. I think they've had a terrible first week of camp, and Rex Ryan, in terms of returns, and Rex Ryan said it and kind of panicked and said, all right, let's bring Reggie Bush. Connor Orr made a good point.

I think it was on Twitter, or maybe it's something he wrote today, that Rex does have, and Rex rubs off on his GMs, it's very clear. He does have a kind of a fantasy football-type look. Sometimes it feels like with these veteran players that they end up going to whatever team he's on. Percy Harvin to the Jets comes to mind,

but there are many others. When he was in Miami, didn't Rex and Reggie Bush have that, I remember I have to write tedious articles week after week about them join at each other in the press? I don't remember that. I want to make an argument for Reggie Bush. Okay, but quickly because we really got to move.

Because who cares? We got a light show here. What else is there? What else is? How much Reggie Bush do we have to talk about? Three straight years here, 01 to 13. Yards from scrimmage. 1382, 1278, 15, 1512.

At least seven touchdowns in each one of those years. It's good. Has another year like that early in his career. He probably has as many 1250 yards from scrimbutt just about as Jamal Charles in his career. I'm not wrong. Rex Ryan, during some Jets' Dolphins affair, said they had to put some hot sauce on Reggie Bush. That's right. And then they hurt him.

Right. That's fine, but, you know, I just want to say he was hailed as the next Gale Sayers when he came into the league. And we still treat him like he was, you know, in all. time talent, but he never became that guy. That's all. I like Reggie Bush. He seems like a nice dude. Well, he certainly would, you know, lead a list of guys who are more famous as football

players than had a great career. That's true. Yeah. Alden Smith, moving on, has checked into rehab. Clearly, should not be a surprise after what happened that we talked about on last week's show with that insane, I think it was a periscope post. Yes. where it appeared to be Alden Smith,

who's on suspension for substance abuse issues smoking a gigantic blunt. Appeared to be? Just massive. Well, we never saw his face. Allegedly. This kind of all, it connects the dots if you needed it to be done. He's in rehab.

Reggie McKenzie said that the Raiders will not give up on Alden and it makes sense. They have an investment in him. But who knows when we'll see him back on the field? Might not see him this season. He was supposed to be suspended for half the season and this just makes you wonder whether that's going to get extended out into 2017.

They're talking about caring more about the person than the player, I think that should tell you a lot. And finally, Cowboys linebacker Damien Wilson was missing the beginning of training camp after he took a paintball to the eye during a paintball expedition. I just want to touch on this because, you know, I wrote on Friday right before,

I left for the celebration reflection banquet for the shield. I wrote a post on the end-around blog, which you could read at NFL.com slash end-round. The lead, paintball is terrible. And, you know, I was just having some fun here. I don't like paintball.

I went once on my own bachelor party, no less. I kind of got. What? Your own bachelor party? Is this where some of the feelings come from that that's what you had to do for your bachelor party? It was something that was,

my bachelor party took place in New York. York City. And in the middle of the weekend, we got a bus to Staten Island to go paintballing and didn't do much for me. And I just, I have strong feelings on it, I guess. But then big paintball came after me all weekend. I am some of the most, you know, angry, like, rantings I've ever gotten in my six years at this company for anything I ever written. People somehow were even connecting me to somehow defending the NFL's issues with head injuries and concussions by saying that I was in the bag, I was in the tank for the NFL by saying I was against paintball.

No, they're not connected, bro. So the paintball crazies came out. I think they're all crazy too. Right. That's a theory that I'm working under here. But they're very angry that I would say something negative about paintball. And I'm just here not to apologize, but just to say, it's okay to have an opinion. Guys, that's mine.

I'm anti-painball. And you know what? Get off my case. I don't even think you went deep enough. Paintball's the worst. I have six brothers. If any of them wanted to go to a bachelor party that features paintball, I'd be like, sorry. I'm not going to your lame bachelor party.

So what you're saying is people that are really still into paintball in the year 2016 maybe have anger. What's great is whatever that came from and how that escalated with this overly sensitive paintball community. They are now going to come at all four of us thanks to this review. I agree with you, too, by the way. You brought us into your white.

I'm fine with it. This is a battle I am willing to follow Dan into battle for it. Unless it ends with us getting shot to death by paintball. Yeah. We're talking about people with, you know. You just have ankle. I too played paintball once, and it was at a bachelor party.

What is up with you, people? And it wasn't my bachelor party, but. It's just some lame bachelor parties. No, it was a part of the bachelor's part. Me and a couple other of the people involved in the game. We just kind of hung her out in the back and we're just waiting for it. You know, just like, all right, can this thing end? Can someone win or lose so we can start drink?

Sound like a valuable team. Right. I would not, you know. By the way, that is the least surprising element here that Greg would go to paintball and then be the guy hanging out in the back waiting for a day. Is it, or were you like hiding in the forest behind trees? Yeah, exactly. You're just kind of hiding.

They're hanging out talking with the other guys who aren't putting in great effort. Here's one lesson I've learned in 42 years of living. Bachelor parties are among the most over-hyped events which never deliver that you can possibly imagine. You are not far from wrong. I disagree. I've been to some great bachelor parties. I've been to a lot that involved playing poker, and I wanted to shoot myself. Come on.

It depends. It depends. It's a – Yeah, that's annoying. It has to be that right group. If you're going to have poker is a major part of your bachelor party, everyone in the bachelor's party, everyone in the bachelor's. party has to be way into public because that's very it's also time it's inclusive right but that's true of your paintball too that did they not check beforehand or did you discover that's weird that's

that you didn't like that's a bad job i know it's okay i mean i was like kind of talked into it a little bit and i was like i guess it'll be fun like we could drink and it's just like a part of the day but by the time i got on the bus that was my favorite part of the day when i was going back to manhattan and we're get out of statin island it's ready to drink some more so yeah and by But, yeah, poker. And I remember that. Like, this was early 2000s. I remember any gift I got from an aunt or a Christmas.

All of a sudden I was getting these poker sets. And I'm like, what is up with big poker coming after, like, early 20-somethings? Enough with the poker, too. That was a regrettable phase of American life. The whole poker phase? No, it's no good. I think it kept Rota World's lights on for a little while, the old online gambling poker industry.

I'm the website you built from scratch. I'm just saying it kept, it got them by for a little while until the American populace caught up with fantasy sports. Interesting. Sure it was a riveting activity in the year 1343 when there was no electricity. Hey, let's go play cards. Oh, so this is against all card games in general? Cards are lame.

I can get a bore with that. I like some cards too. Oh, enough with the parlor games and the cards all the time. Cards! It's 2016. We're playing cards. Not everything needs to be futuristic, West. You should know that, a man tied to the past in so many ways. I was taught to play Uyghur at a very young age.

Maybe I'm still scarred from it. And, Mark, as always, we know that you have a very narrow lane for things you like and everything else is terrible. It's not a messy lane, but I don't like parlor games, and I could, maybe I should just fake it and go to these things with you guys, and I'll just sit there and play these board games. Mark was very angry that we were playing pool at the celebration reflection. That's too much. I mean, that's the right spot for it.

But in this particular card game discussion, I think what you've brought up is something that America needs to realize a little more. I'm with you on the anti-cards. Three to one. Oh, yeah. Cards have died. That doesn't matter to me.

Big poker goes down in a big spot. But no, I'm anti-poker. That's what's happening in the news. All right, let's talk now. Biggest surprises of camp so far. And one thing I knew, you like, Mark, football. I love it.

That's in the lane. That is in the lane. Squarely. Let me go over the things that I know of. Football. Yeah. Books. Yeah.

Star Wars. Both, yes. Star Wars. Yeah, I mean, not to some, not to the levels you think so, but yes. Popular crime. Yes. Crime. Books about it.

I don't like the fact that it's not right. Well, we'll talk, we'll talk offline. I think the girls by Emma Klein. Okay. You're going to like it. Okay. That's it. His family, pretty much.

People, like a lot of people. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't. You mean activities. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you've covered a large portion of it. Too much. Well, I don't know about that.

I mean, yes. The Rich Eyes and Podcast. Good luck to them. All right, here we go, Mark. Let's start with you. For you, the biggest surprise of Camp so far. It's, I can't believe that we're, days into camp and that

RG3 is taking every first team snap with the Browns. We touched on this in the last show, and for me, it's much more about Hugh Jackson had one of a couple ways to go here and he is so clearly focused on making

this RG3 thing work that whether you're Josh McCown, whether you're Cody Kessler, you don't seem to have a shot. They're going to put RG3 out there, sink or swim, and I think it's a very unusual approach by Hugh Jackson who preaches competition at every other

position. And look at other teams like Chip Kelly and San Francisco. It's a completely different way of doing things. Split the reps right down the middle. And I think if you're a team like Cleveland where you clearly don't have a proven starter, we're talking about a guy that since 2012 has been

a big disappointment. This is a risk. It's a gamble. And what if it goes very poorly, two weeks into the preseason? Hugh Jackson's going to have a lot of explaining to do. If it were, it only adds to the aura around Hugh Jackson that he is the quarterback whisper of choice right now. I was approaching this from the standpoint of what RG3 and Josh McCown have put on game film since that 2012 season and preseason as well as the regular season.

And from that point of view, it's hard to imagine that you would just give the job to RG3. But then I tried to approach it like Hugh Jackson, who felt the earth move under his feet during RG3's tryout. And he knows what Josh McCown is. He can always turn back to him if he has to. Yep. But he wants to see what he has in RG3 if he can wrangle any of that 2012, I guess, potential out of him. But I think the risk is why call it a competition?

Yeah, I think the risk is why, what are the players and I guess the media, not that you're too worried about the media, they know it's not a competition. So you don't want to get in the habit of saying things to your team that have no meeting, that this is a competition when it's not a competition. and RG3, it's not like he's earned the first team, all of first team reps. From day one, first practice, Josh McCown has literally not taken a single first team rep. I mean, most teams, they'll just mix guys in.

It's almost like he's going out of his way to say, no, we want to get RG3 as ready as possible. At least the one thing is he isn't going to apparently stretch this into week three or four of the preseason. If you're going to do this, he said he's going to name it before the first preseason game and you move on. maybe Josh McCown sits out there as trade bait for a team that has, you know, a calamity happen under center. I just, I'm just surprised. What is, what is wrong with having them compete? That's why it's surprising to me, especially in this specific team and the roster.

Are they, is it, are there issues where part of the rebuilding of RG3 is rebuilding his confidence? Absolutely. Yes. And they, but is that worth really going out of the limb like this? I don't know. It's, it just feels like a real risky move to start. out your tenure for a franchise that has struggled so tremendously

at the quarterback position. It just feels like we're heading towards a meteor with this. It's how it feels to me. It's very different, but it just occurred to me. This was the situation in Washington last year. We were having a very similar conversation. Why does Jay Gruden keep saying over and over, RG3 is the starter?

RG3 is the starter. Throughout the end of July and the beginning of August. By the end of August, he flipped it and he changed his mind. Well, we knew after like the second preseason game. Right. You watch a team, and Kirk Cousins is playing at a different level than RG3. Wes, what is the biggest surprise you've seen so far? I think Arian Foster, I had thought that there was a chance he could get cut by the end of training camp,

and now all of the word out of Miami seems to be that he's already bypassed Jay Ajai and is going to be the starter entering the season, that he's in impeccable shape, that he looks good, and Ajahe is dealing with injuries of his own now. but it seems like all the momentum there is in Arian Foster's corner that he's going to be the starting running back for the Miami Dolph. Is that another one where you would have wanted to see preseason games and game film of him now versus that projection? Sure, but I kind of trust the coaching staff on this one

because the game film for Arian Foster 2014 was sublime. And last year we knew he was playing injured and he wasn't in football shape yet, so I can give him a pass on that. well and to me it's it's partly who gets to week one healthy there's just because he's the starter right now ajai is hurt right now kenyon drake has been an injury prone guy throughout his career it's like which one of those three gets in fresh because there's no guarantee erin foster is going to survive the preseason and all these practices but i am surprised to your point that that if everyone's healthy it looks like it's going to be foster it feels a little desperate to me it feels like they're

hoping and praying that this is a Hail Mary that gets caught, that he becomes something close to what he was when he was healthy. And it says something about J.J.I. that they must not be too high on him to think that Aaron Foster would walk right back in the lineup after having such terrible injury issues and looking so slow last year. I don't think it speaks well to that backfield. Yeah, I mean, we knew that backfield had issues.

That's why they went after Aaron Foster to begin with. I think the line should be better. Greg, what has been the biggest surprise of camp so far for you? Well, I think if you're a Bill's fan, it's been a bad offseason, and that's continued in training camp, for instance, Mani Lawson, who is the replacement for Shaq Lawson, is now injured, might be out for a long time. Who knows they might be starting IKN and Polly in which one.

But here's some good news for the Bills. It sounds like there's a lot of optimism that they're going to get this contract done for Tyrod Taylor before the end of camp, according to our NFL media insider. He's, you know, Ian Rappaport saying that the contract negotiations have picked up recently, and it's a tricky contract to pull off because I don't know how exactly they're going to value Taylor. It sounded like there was no chance this was going to happen, and if I'm a Bill's fan, I'm excited about that. I think you want to make sure you lock up Taylor, and if it goes sideways and you give him a little too much guaranteed money, and he doesn't have a great season.

No big deal. I think this is a very difficult contract to figure out, and it really sounds like it's going to happen. I think that's a pleasant surprise for the bill. Oh, sorry, go down. No, I was just going to say I kind of look at the opposite way. I thought they were playing this right. I thought they needed to see more from this guy,

and this was, although it wasn't going to make the quarterback happy, show it to us, and then we'll invest so we don't get Fitzpatrick again. But if they're going to go to, they're going to give him money, and I think he's still kind of a wild guard. I mean, I watched a bunch of his games last year. I know he had moments, but he didn't strike me as a guy that I can definitely lock into his, oh, this guy's my quarterback for the next five years. I'm not so sure it's smart to get into bed with him just yet.

I think it's a process to get to this decision because when we were in London covering the game against Bill's versus Jaguars, there were whispers, and it was more than whispers that some people in the coaching staff really still believed in E.J. Manuel. And they're probably at this point, if you're the GM, And Doug Whaley, you talk about a guy with Nine Lives. Like, he has swung and missed on E.J. Manuel as a first-round quarterback. They didn't get a chance to get a rock-solid quarterback starter in this draft. So suddenly, what are your options if you don't go Tyrod Taylor?

How many more chances do you get if you're Doug Whaley and Rex Ryan to keep drafting and starting over with new quarterbacks? For all this optimism, it certainly doesn't sound like Doug Whaley is sold on Tyra Taylor. Even to this point, he told DMQB, they asked him if he's a franchise quarterback. and he said all signs are pointing to him having a chance to be. He still has to prove it. Well, and then he talked about the contract's got to be fair for him, but also fair for us, what he's been saying all offseason.

If you call him a franchise quarterback, then the contract takes on a different perspective. Well, he's not a franchise quarterback. Well, this is getting too far ahead and giving them too much credit. I expect this to be a team-friendly deal where Taylor has to play well to really earn the back end of it and earn top money. I think it's a tricky one to pull off because Taylor could just bet on himself that it'll be worth much more

but I bet this is a deal where they're protected All right, let's throw one more quarterback situation out there Colin Kaepernick and Blaine Gabbitt splitting first team reps, reps quote, right down the middle in training camp this according to Chip Kelly, the Niners coach. This is a surprise to me

just because it felt like Colin Kaepernick was so hopelessly behind because of his physical issues that it was going to be Gabbardt leading the way and then Kaepernick playing catch-up. That's kind of how I read it. And it looks like, at least with how they're breaking down the reps, West, that this is going to be a battle, an even battle. Do you read it that way as well? Yeah.

I hear what you're saying on the momentum that Gabbard seemed to be picking up throughout the offseason. But if you listen to Chip Kelly's comments, he was always saying that it was going to be a battle in camp. So in that sense, I get what's going on there with the splitting reps, and I think it's going to come down to preseason games. And from the sound of it, like Monday at practice, just reading a practice report, Kaepernick looks pretty good.

The fact that he's out there and he's fully healthy, I don't know. I just kind of trust in his physical abilities to find a way to impress Chip Kelly enough to play a lot for them. He gained weight back, number one. I mean, they said physically that he looks like the player he was. and we heard reports when Chip Kelly was, you know, hovering around the Niners that a player like Kaepernick was someone he had his eyes on for a long time. So that doesn't just go away and you're not going to just bury Kaepernick behind someone named Blaine Gabbert who had a nice season last year.

But give me a break. This is not you have to see both of these guys in your new offense. I feel like he's playing it right, Kelly, because you want, when you take this job, it's going to be a tough job this year. And he's going to have a lot of work to do just to make them competitive. If you have a guy like Kaepernick who's still on the right side of 30 and is not too far removed from being one of the rising stars in the league, maybe you take a shot on them, see what you get. It's kind of has some similar traits to what's going on in Cleveland with Hugh Jackson.

Give it a shot, see if it takes. And then if it doesn't, you go with plan B. To me, Blaine Gabbard is a perfect plan B. We'll see how it plays out. How bizarre would this season be in some parallel universe where Kaepernick and RG3 both kind of return to who they were. I mean, there are two players that have been written off entirely. It just seems very improbable.

Sounds like I'm excited. It sounds like a November long form by Mark Sessler. Very improbable is what I'd say. The return of the two whatever. Well, you're going to have to get out in front of that before November if this happens. There's going to be think pieces flying off the walls. Start doing it now. Pre-write it.

No, I'd only curse it. See, when you went to talk 49ers, I thought you were talking about the big smelter, Patton-Ellington battle that people getting excited about. The Smeldown? Smelter! Let's see if Chip Kelly and Hugh Jackson are really quarterback whispers. That would be the thing. It seems like I would be gobsmacked if both those scenarios came out. It would be because they're getting great coaching.

If the 49ers have an average offense, that's quarterback whisperer enough. They are running uphill. All right, guys, good Seg. Great Seg. We will be back on Wednesday. By the way, people are probably wondering, hey, you guys haven't checked in with the quiet storm about his big Thursday night at the Trubidor.

Listen, hold tight. We're going to talk about it on Wednesday. A very special episode of the Around the NFL podcast. Coming up. How was that for a tease, Greg? That's a professional tease. The old little Debbie. How's your life changed, Greg, without being a boss anymore?

No, you're not the boss. How's life changed? I don't think about, I don't think about, I'm not as driven crazy by work things. That's one way. It seems to be more at peace. Like when I'm off, when I'm out of this building, things that are going on here, I'm not as worried about it. I think for you specifically, a lot of annoying junk got removed off your plate

and off your shoulders. Not of it's self-inflicted. A lot of it's my own fault, and maybe I'm not good at that stuff, but yeah. You said it, there was something that happened in our office, and immediately on I am, I was on fire, you know, going crazy. And Greg was like, in this new world, I don't need to listen to Mark or worry about what he's said.

What is that? When did that happen? I totally get that. When did that happen? On Thursday. I don't remember that. Well, we can discuss it later, but you don't have to deal with these personalities.

You can't avoid. the fact, though, Greg, that there is an absence of any, you know, real power for you at the opposite way. That's got to hurt a little bit. Let's get into that. Did Greg ever have real power? Yeah, exactly. I realized not many people around here do.

I definitely didn't. Okay, so yes, we'll talk about the Little Debbie show on Wednesday, a very special edition of the around the NFL podcast. So make sure you check it out and make sure you check us out on iTunes and leave comments, leave stars. How are we doing on the iTunes Challenge? Greg. You said we were at 9.71, I believe, in the comments. I think it was 931 or in the 20s or 30. I did check on that.

I'm glad you asked last night. I checked on that. And our readers, they came through with us, bumped it up a little bit, but we're still not in the quadruple digits. And when I look at some of the other podcasts that are, it saddens me. So let's leave reviews because I do think it helped our ratings. And let's get into quadruple did. I think we're in the 970s now. We picked up 30 or 40 or 4. Big Sunday night in the Rosenthal household. Let's see where we're at 960. So, listen, maybe if Greg was still the boss,

people would have gotten on their laptop. So I'm just saying you have to look at both sides of the coin. Yeah. You're saying even the listeners don't respect him? What's going on here? The dynamic has changed. He's lost some cachet. See, Dan is misreading any enjoyment I would have gotten out of having power.

It just makes me uncomfortable. All right. Sorry for misreading the situation. Let's get up to 1,000, everybody. Until Wednesday, this is Dan Hansis. Signing off for Quiet Storm. The Mailman, the boss, Emeritus, and the Irishman behind the glass.

Till Wednesday. At the game on Saturday night. My dad and I went, and then there was his couple sitting next to me. Yeah. And he was, he was a Red Sox fan, they were Red Sox fan. And he was completely full of shit with everything that he was saying. Yeah. So he got up to go, like, chase down the guy to get her a drink.

So I tapped her on the shoulder, and I was like, just so you know, he's wrong with everything that he's saying. That's funny. And then he got up to chase down a drink again, like the eighth inning. She goes, this is our third date, and I realized I hate this guy. Wow. Holy shit. So I basically ruined a relationship this weekend. This is an IHeart podcast.