NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Watson Settlement Reaction; 2022 Rebound Candidates

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

A room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, and Gregg Rosenthal start by reacting to the settlement reached between the league and the NFLPA resulting in Deshaun Watson receiving an 11-game suspension and $5M fine. Then, the heroes discuss their favorite rebound candidates for the 2022 season (21:23), including a former MVP quarterback (22:50), a former Pro Bowl tight end (28:31), a coach-quarterback tandem in Florida (33:22), a quarterback who finds himself as a backup at this stage of his career (37:43), a wide receiver on a new team this season (44:40), and the wife of a star player (48:42). Note: timecodes approximate.NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey, everybody. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the 6th, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else.

It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So now, after discussion, after months, after weeks, after negotiation, after a ruling and then waiting for Peter C. Harvey to rule in place of Roger Goodell, it is now over to Sean Watson, not going to take the NFL to court. The NFL not going to have to listen to these headlines over and over throughout the season. there is a settlement, 11 games, $5 million fine. Deshawn Watson should be back against his old team to Houston Texan to week 13. Welcome to Around the NFL, Dan Hansis with Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler. There you heard it from Ian Rappaport. It's the biggest news story of the day, and we're going to talk about it, whether we want to or not.

And this is a story that Deshaun Watson desperately wanted to go away, a story that Cleveland Browns desperately wanted to go away. And today, Thursday, through their actions, I think we learned that the NFL made a calculated decision. It was in their best interest to make this sordid story go away. Greg. And yet, because of the way the day played out, and I believe the length of the suspension,

which felt insufficient, insufficient and disappointing, I don't think it's going away. and I've talked about this from day one, remorse. And that ended up being, I think, a big theme of what the day was all about, the total lack of remorse from Deshaun Watson and his agent, that he believes he still did nothing wrong, and he threw in some sort of word salad that he apologized to anyone that he hurt. But ultimately, he didn't recognize,

and I don't think the NFL ultimately recognized the scope of his problem. like they think think of the scope of his problem like everything it affected first the women of course um and all the pain that he caused and there was some talk like well it only ended up being four women that that they talked about in the actual you know suspension that that was four women and they proved it and it was and it was predatory behavior um but think of everything else he caused he was on top of the world had just gotten a huge contract from the texans he didn't play football last season. He didn't, he's not going to play football for the first 11 games of this season. He has caused everyone who is in his orbit to answer for him daily and make their jobs all

about him for the last X amount of months. That that's the scope of the problem that he has that he's still not admitting is a problem. And I just think it's going to be harder to move forward because of the way that he spoke. And I have a feeling if he said that he said that he felt like he did nothing wrong and he maintained his innocence. I don't think he would have gotten 11 games. I don't think they would have settled. I think the way he even acted today already should be having the NFL feeling some remorse of their own. All right.

Let's hear from Deshawn Watson once news broke of the final punishment. I've always stood on my innocence and always said that I've never assaulted anyone or disrespected anyone and I'm continuing to stand on that. But at the same time, I have to continue to push forward with my life and my career. and for us to be able to move forward, you know, I have to be able to take steps and pit pride to the side. And I'm going to continue to stand on my innocence and keep pushing forward. And I've always, you know, stood on not disrespecting or sexual assault or anyone. And then Greg, Mary Kay Cabot then, who's covered the Browns Forever, followed up with a

question to Watson. You're going to take a lot of heat for I stand on my innocence and I'm already seeing it all over social media. So, you know, what is going to be? be your response to that when the world comes down on you for standing on your innocence throughout this president? Well, I have to do what's best for Deshaun Watson at the end of the day. And I know what happened. I was in those situations, but I have to continue to push forward and keep moving forward. There was another question, and they were not letting him off the hook that asked, well,

then who are you apologizing for? And what are you apologizing for? for everyone that was affected about this situation there was a lot of people that was triggered but not the women that accused you this i've apologized to all women so anybody that was affected even yourself everything so i'm apologizing everyone that was affected about this whole situation so he he alludes to people that were triggered by it but not uh saying that he did anything wrong and i i think the mixed messaging from him and his agent his agent tweeted out something, David Mullet get it, and I do want to kind of get into his involvement of this in a minute, David Mulligat get it, because I think he was the crucial person in this entire ordeal other than Deshawn Watson, but he tweeted out being upset with the ruling, being upset with Judge Robinson and saying that Judge Robinson, Sue Robinson, who put the initial six games on Deshawn Watson, had made her decision before they even had the first call that had

mentioned Deshawn's pattern of behavior. And there was another report from ESPN's Deanna Rossini, which is that Deshaun Watson and his camp were very upset that they got this 11 games because they maintained that he did absolutely nothing wrong. And so that lack of contrition makes it very difficult for me to think about the moving forward. Jimmy Haslam said, like, we believe in second chances. But you believe in second chances if you admit that you did something wrong. he specifically mentioned, look how well Kareem Hunt has worked out for the Browns.

And what a great player, Deshaun Watson is, which I don't think you need to mention that in this setting. But how is there a second chance if you're saying your behavior, which, again, caused you to pay all this money to these 20 women, all this money that the Houston Texans, by the way, had to pay in settlements? All of this because Deshaun Watson has a problem. and he doesn't seem remotely interested in addressing that problem. And I do wonder if the NFL is looking at today's statement because part of the deal is he's supposed to try to address his problem. And if they, I don't know if they can reconsider or consider

and throw into the evidence how he's reacting to this. You really think the NFL, though, Mark, I'll ask you this question. Do you think the NFL, after making this, this is a very calculated decision to try. to essentially put this to bed, would take anything that happened today and reopen the can of worms? I think they want to move on from this, even if they're disappointed the way Watson handle this. They absolutely will not. This is sealed up now, and it's exactly what they wanted. And Greg, everything that you say, I agree with. I think when you talk about, we've all had

second chances in life. And like, I would hope that when we've gotten them, you learn from them. Not always. And sometimes you're asking for a third maybe. But this is different than a second chance. That narrative really stuck with me because of his lack of contrition. Because he talks about accountability, I see no accountability. I see high cynicism. And I don't think the league will do a single thing at this point. And I think the problem a little bit is that we choose to cover a sports league that is highly cynical. It's hard.

It's absolutely hard to square. And one thing that I thought, and maybe this had been part of the Brown's messaging, and I had missed it to this point. But when you have Dee Haslam, wife of Jimmy Haslam, the co-owners of the Brown facing the media today. And they're asking D and Jimmy directly, like, how do you square up the apologies that we've heard and the team statements and the Watson statements

with him coming up to a podium and saying, I did nothing wrong. I stand on my innocence. And then D. Hazam went down a road where she was saying, like, this is going to take time. This is going to take accountability. It's going to take therapy. And it's like, that's kind of letting Watson,

and the Browns off the hook by saying the reason why now he's showing no contrition and disrespecting the victims of this is because he's not there yet emotionally. Well, but he's there enough for you to give him a record-setting contract and put him back on the field in December. That, to me, stands out as out of bounds and not the right way to play this situation from a human standpoint. From a team that from the word go, when they made this decision to pay him the money they paid him, to bring him to trade him to Cleveland,

that they said the Cleveland Browns, we vetted this heavily, we researched this heavily, we're comfortable with this. How could you be? I think that that's the major disconnect. They were also asked about the fans that have been affected by this, that have said, I can't root for the Browns. And there's a lot of them. It's a subsection of that fan base, no doubt about it. And their response to that, to me, felt pie in the sky too, which was, well, we hope in time they'll come back. And I think that's what this is all about, hoping that by the time Deshaun Watson's suspension ends,

and especially into next off-season and next season, that like everything else, we'll forget about it. Because, by the way, we talk about players. I'm not equating him to other players that have made major errors in their lives and hurt other people, but we do talk about other players all the time without reviewing the stuff they did. It does wash away.

And Greg, as much as I want to believe that people won't forget about this, I think the problem with covering sports and with sports in general in the NFL, is yes, they will. I mean, it'll be just in the context of it. Today's the day we're going to talk about it. People didn't forget about Ben Rathesberger. I think that...

No, but it's like deep in the context. Right. It's not a drum beat. Browns fans are past it, but I think on this day specifically, the fact that he answered... That's fair. At least the ones in my mention.

A lot of them want to move on from it. But the fact that on this day, that he answered Mary King's... question about people not being convinced and being upset with his lack of apology. And literally his answer, his words, where I have to do what's best for Deshaun Watson. And I know the last like place here that we're supposed to go for empathy here is for Deshaun Watson. That's not where I'm coming from when I'm about to say this.

But I don't think the people around Deshaun Watson. Watson are looking out for Desaun Watson. Like I was saying, like this problem that he has caused so much pain. And whether you want to like talk about it or not, it's caused a lot of pain in his life too and made his life miserable. And yet no one really seems concerned about addressing who he is as a human. And that's why I brought up the NFL part of the issue because I do think Roger Goodell and the NFL was sincere about wanting him to be suspended for a year.

The initial decision came back. They ended up landing on this settlement because they couldn't have been totally convinced how it would have ended. I don't need to get into that. That's guesswork. But this is Roger Goodell's press release. He said, quote, Deshaun has committed to doing the hard work on himself that is necessary to return to the NFL. The settlement requires compliance with professional evaluation, a treatment plan, a significant fine, in a more substantial suspension.

So he put that front and center, and I think it has to be disappointing from the NFL's perspective to see what Watson did today, what his agent continues to do by fighting it, because whether you think this is all cynical or not cynical at all, it's obviously in some respects a public relations issue.

That's why we all pay this money for public relations and it is. And the 11 games is ultimately unsatisfying and I think disappointing because it's muddled. It's like an unclear. It's an unclear ending and then his contribution to it today I think really makes it unclear. And I think that has to be frustrating for the league office.

Can we agree that from a public relations angle that sealing this up now is better for the league? I'm not saying I don't agree with this, I think if you're the league, did you want a court case dragging on deep in December? It's not just about the outcome of the court case. It's about the fact that the story would go on into the season. That would be part of the L as well. That's assuming that it would have, you know, the appeal should have been heard any day now.

So we should have found out if the NFL was not willing to negotiate here, we would have found out about the appeal soon. It's August 18th. It would have happened soon. What you're talking about is the federal case and we're not smart enough to know. Some smart people believe it never would have gotten that far. Some people think it would. Does it sound like the Browns? Does it sound like the Sean Watson and his representatives would not have kept fighting?

If this went a different way? Oh, absolutely. But it would have been up to a judge basically whether to hear it. They don't, they did not want that they did not want to gamble on that 15% chance. That's my take on it. They did not want this becoming the thing we talk about all season. The NFL, they could be disappointed about the things that were said today after this press release drop. But they can't be surprised because Watson was laying the breadcrumbs.

the whole time. Right. He, he, he, it's just, it's just frustrating. I think if, if Watson was interested in addressing this head on at any point, like we wouldn't have been banging this, and anyone who's in our mentions or, or is upset about hearing the reactions of it, like, it's, it's all about that. He, he could have addressed this head on at any point. Even today, he said, he didn't want to speak on the fairness of this.

suspension because he wanted to protect his piece. Essentially, he's not ready for the smoke that would come his way. But before, like, if we're going to move on, the Mulligeta thing, I know we've talked about it in the off season, but I really do believe the timing of how everything happened was absolutely orchestrated because Deshaun Watson had the most powerful agent that is in the game right now that has made a huge move in the last year or two and that absolutely has friendships and relationships with virtually the entire national media who is reporting on that. And that affected the timeline of all this happening so he could get his guaranteed money back in March before all the quarterback spots were filled. And it does

affect the reporting of it because this was treated as a both-side situation where, When if you just read the civil cases, there wasn't much both sides to it. And that's it. Yep. I hear that. And one thing I wanted to say, Greg, you had sent out a tweet this morning that Watson and Mugeta had played the Browns on some level in terms of negotiations. And I think you could say that.

And certainly the fact that he's missing most of the season, but not all the season, is something maybe if the Browns knew that, the terms with the terms. Texans wouldn't be as extreme as they were. But I still look at this, something I said on this show when Sue Robinson's decision came out, that a big winner of this is the Browns. And it made me think about, and I mean this from their perspective. Right. When you look at this whole story and even the Browns, just the organizational path,

when they needed to find a way out of the Baker relationship, there is Deshaun Watson as an option. Then they beat out all the competition for this generationally talented QB. And there was competition. forget that now. We put it all on the Browns, but there were a lot of teams that wanted a piece of Sean Watson, even with all this out there. Then the Browns were able to navigate past the criminal investigation, check mark. Then they navigate past the civil lawsuits, check mark. Then they navigate past the indefinite or full year suspension, check mark. And in October, this guy's back in the

building. In November, he's practicing with the team. And in December, he is the QB1 for the Cleveland Browns for four and a half years and you could say they've taken a nasty PR hit and they've lost really good fans like Mark. But when the Browns stand in front of the media today and got that out, they'll take the L there because they got what they want in the end. I totally agree. And I see where you're coming from, Greg, but I think the Browns, Jimmy Haslam said it. He absolutely would have done this again. And that's maybe one of the few things that he said that I believe. I think the Browns knew that a big suspension was coming. I don't think they got played by the agent. I really don't. I really don't, Greg, because I think this was, you have to remember, this was their mission.

They were going to get them. I mean, you don't get, even if you got into this race, if you were the Saints, the Panthers, the Falcons, they took a PR hit. They lost that race and they took the PR hit. The Browns got it. They got their quarterback. They were the only ones willing to give the guaranteed money. And I think that was, I think that was telling back then. And what I mean by that is, and I'm glad he brought it up, Dan, was that if you knew then that he was going to be suspended 11 games, I don't think he gets that guaranteed money.

I don't think he gets that contract. But then he doesn't go there. I don't think the, maybe he does go there. The contract is different. I think the trade terms are different. And why I say that I think they got played is, and this is where I had problems with the coverage of it, the agent convinced the Browns

and much of the media that there wasn't going to be the suspension. As recently as two months ago, Mike Florio, my old boss, who's done a great job covering this story from like a legal perspective, thought there was a good chance Deshaun Watson wouldn't be suspended at all. Like the Watson camp, and there has been many sourced articles said this, I think successfully convinced teams that the suspension was going to be minimal. And I think the expectation as recently as a month ago or so was that it would be four or six games.

And that's all I mean, that eventually all would have happened. But I think the context of it, the fact that he got fully guaranteed, the fact that the Texans got all those picks, I think would have been different if people had the idea that basically you're throwing a season away. Can I just say one thing about the Cleveland Browns though versus had it been the New Orleans Saints and what that contract would have looked like or the Falcons where Deshawn Watson had ties with the Falcons? They reportedly weren't willing to go as far. So that's the thing. It's like agent or not, suspension or not. I mean, there's no one in the Browns building thought he's not going to get suspended at all. I get that that was a possible reality based on, you know, precedent, etc. But if you want to be the Browns and you want to think about the deal, you're thinking there is a very high likelihood that he misses a bunch of games this season.

They're not looking at this season. This was never about this season. And he went out, he dropped the Browns out of the race. They fell out of the derby for him. They came back in because of the money. And it's not unlike a lot of teams when you're not in Miami, not in New Orleans, not in Atlanta. You've got to pay to get someone into your building, and that's what they did. I think that's part of it. It's not just the agent snowed them under. I mean, it's not – Andrew Barry did not get snowed under by the agent entirely. I just don't buy that.

And I don't know how, like, ultimately, Andrew Barry, how much his decision-making ultimately mattered in all of this. I mean – I don't feel like a lot or Kevin Stefanski. And that's sort of what I mean where I totally agree. I think it was a really good point. what you said about the Browns and how they're looking at today. But when I think the Browns, I think of ownership and the organization. Because there's a very realistic possibility that this is a Pyrrhic victory for Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefansky and that this ruins their careers.

If they don't make the playoffs with Deshaun Watson next year, not only will they be fired, like all the former GMs and coaches that have been with the Browns, but this will be on them forever. You know, and that is part of it, is that's part of the calculated. That's part of it. The next GM and coach could come in without this on them. Right. And they get somewhat of a clean start, even if Watson's still in the building.

But there's that one, by the fact that it's 11 games, right, he gets the comeback, and it's against the Texans, which, again, not a good look. It's terrible. There had to be conversations internally by the league about whether that was something they wanted to get involved with. They did, though. But you look at it, it comes back. If they could tread water, the Brown. and hang around 500, they can make a push this season. And they have the Bengals, the Ravens, the Steelers in those last five or six weeks of the season.

And, man, there's also a scenario where the Browns, and I know this seems impossible, but crazier things that happened have happened, have 75,000 people in their building in January going nuts in a playoff game with Deshaun Watson as a starting quarterback this year. Like the most anti-Cinderella story that has ever been created by the NFL. Unbelievable. Let's take a break. We'll be right back. What's up, everybody?

Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape, talk to decision-makers,

and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year.

Whether you're a diehard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level, we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. It's time for a pallet cleanser. Let's not even bring up that name for the rest of the show. How about that? Why don't we talk about the 2022 season? Let's talk ball. Okay.

We had a rundown. We had a Seg ready for this Thursday. We're going to do it. You're not taking away our joy. This is the best time of years of football. You can't take it away. We're excited for the story. start of a new season.

And there are many, many players in our league who are also extremely excited for the chance to rebound coming off a difficult 2021 season. So why don't we as our pallet cleanser because God knows we need a pallet cleanser, let us talk about some players that jump out to us as real attractive rebound candidates in 2022. Greg, do you want to get us going? I thought you were just going to give like a history of you being on the rebound and like different rebound examples in life. It is very important in life to rebound because there are always going to be disappointments and setbacks.

And the people who stay down and don't try to get back up, that's a sad thing. But it happens a lot in the world. Yeah, it does. I was hoping that Mark would go first because I feel like we all understand. interpreted this exercise differently, and I wanted to hear Mark. But I'm excited to throw out my first rebound candidate. Okay. Because he's a man that shouldn't even be needing to rebound.

Like, there shouldn't. This is Gino-Smith. I'm literally walking out of the studio. I'm like, who haven't we talked about enough on this show lately? This is a man who, in his first season as starter in the NFL, won the MVP award. In the second year of his starting in the NFL, won the Super Bowl MVP award. Yet the person to my left, Mark Sessler, is over here saying that some other guy in his own division is the Michael Jordan of the NBA. This guy's already done it.

Two days in a row with this nonsense? In his third season, oh, he lost in the Super Bowl. Oh, sorry. In his fourth season. Oh, my gosh. He was outside of the top five quarterbacks. the QB index for a little while. Like, oh my gosh, the sky is falling.

Everything went so bad that he put up a 40 burger on the Steelers in the playoffs and then did it again the next week on the top ranked Bill's defense to get to the AFC championship. That man, of course, is Patrick Mahomes and all of the doom and gloom about Tyreek Hill. And that is the Michael Jordan, by the way. I like how you stop short of getting to the next week's playoff game in your buildup here. No, that was a rough. rough end. A rough end. And that is what he's rebounding from. Because I'm not pretending like last season was Patrick Mahomes at his best. It was easily his worst season as a pro. And by that, I mean,

he was like the seventh or eighth best, you know, quarterback in the regular season and definitely had some down moments. But I think it's easy to forget what he was before that. And to me, and Wes and I got an argument about this, calling him the Michael Jordan, that he was the closest. I'm remembering we're having the same arguments we've had on this show back in the day. He is that guy. And I think there's this. We're tabling Jordan comments as well. He's that guy because you kind of put him now in a mix with the other guys.

You know, Josh Allen and Joe Burrow and Herbert. And that's fine. To me, he's unique. He's special. And there were reasons that they struggled last year. And there's reasons now with Tyree Kilgon to think like it's not going to work. I don't believe that. If I'm picking one guy to go win the MVP this year and to show.

that he is different than all these other young quarterbacks and is playing behind an offensive line that's going to give him a good running game and protect him. And he's going to do the thing that Tom Brady does and Aaron Rogers does and he's going to make some receivers that aren't as highly touted look better because that's the kind of dude he is.

He's going all the way with his rebatch. Well, I can think of another quarterback that for most of his career played with what would consider a lesser cast of talented wide receivers around him, Tom Brady, as opposed to someone like Peyton Manning. I think last year, part of it is almost any football fan would agree with your assessment of Patrick Mahomes

that he is extremely special and unlike any other quarterback we've seen. Really out on a limb on this one. So when he struggled, though, when the team was struggled, right? I think it was the Jordan thing that I was just like, wait a second, Patrick Mahomes is right here. I need to respond to immediately. It was a little precious last year

when people were tis-tist for wondering what was going on with the chiefs because they did look different. There was a slump going on, And it wasn't just Patrick Mahomes. Oh, absolutely. That's why it's a rebound. Right. But now, I think now, actually, a lot of people have come around.

I don't hear they're doomed because they don't have Tyree Kill. At this point, because the offseason is 45,000 years long. Most people now are like, oh, Andy Reid. He's so creative. Him and Mahomes can figure themselves out of any issue. How about that 10 and a half over under, though? Half more than the Broncos, a half more than the Chargers. That's the public, though.

That's respect. The overunders in general. lack of respect to me. They've never been under 12. What was the highest over under of any team this season? Good question. I think it was like 11 and a half. They're not far off.

The bills and a Lills. They're not far off. I think that just makes it a spicier play for betters. Listen. I love Patrick Mahomes. I love watching them play. Well, you don't think I was gutsy enough. But it was eye-opening what happened in that playoff game.

And the slumps in that. 2021 season on offense the Kansas City had eye opening to me. And I saw a lot of incredible Mahomes as well, including the divisional playoff game, including the game I was at. It took my sons to see the Chargers on Thursday night football on December, where he walked them off with Travis Kelsey overtime touchdown. He's still special.

He's still in the conversation as the best, if not one of the best quarterbacks in the league. But I am in a little bit of a hold just because one, you know who skated a little bit? I thought after that collapse on offense in the AFC title game, Andy Reed. He's pretty Teflon. And now you take. Well, and he's had a few of those, to be fair.

You take Tyreek out of the equation. It doesn't mean it's doom and gloom. But I wonder if the league maybe he's caught up a little bit to this Reed scheme. And I know he's always evolving and that's what makes him special. I think they did last year. And now is the rebound. Now is the response. So let's see.

I'm a little in a holding pattern. Like I guess you're saying he's going to return. If it's a rebound, he's. like MVP type guy again that's sort of why i want to because i i really believe this and um i really believe in the chiefs and i believe in mahomes yeah to get to that level to be like not that it's not like we uh forgot about him or anything but that he stands apart all right um i want to bring up someone that uh we were in close quarters with recently mark sessler uh this spring in fact and uh We were actually...

Where? In a way, we were his teacher. We stood up in front of this man and others and explained what it takes to be successful as a podcaster. And it was the NFL broadcasting boot camp. And this individual sat there and didn't make a lot of eye contact or take many notes and sometimes appeared more.

interested in the phone than what we have to say. Maybe a little suspicious of you and I as an entity. I was gone, so I truly don't know who this is. I don't know. And you could say, Zusser, like, what, like, what are you doing here? Like, why are you taking shots at this individual

for not paying attention during our presentation? I'm not. Because he's not focused on a broadcasting career. This man. Not yet. Not yet. This man, Darren Waller. is focused on kicking ass for the Las Vegas Raiders this fall and into winter.

I think he is in a great spot after what was a sneaky disappointing year for, I think, a guy that is as physically talented as any tight end in football. And his season last year was weird. Very weird. He had 19 targets in week one, 10 for 105 and a touch. he had one touchdown the rest of the season and was on about a 900-yard pace yardage-wise which is still good

but for those of us that had kind of put him into the superstar club the previous summer for those of us that thought this guy had Hall of Fame level talent it was a step back so now you have Darren Waller humbled a little bit

went through the broadcast boot camp said that's not for me not now anyway he has the best wide receiver in the world arguably now lining up. It's commanding attention. And I think Diron Waller with Derek Carr is going to eat.

I think he's going to, you're going to see some regression, touchdown regression, double digit touchdowns, a hundred catches. Yes, will his target share be down? Perhaps. But also, all the double teams now being commanded by a true number one receiver, Darren Waller, huge rebound candidate. And our fantasy extravaganza is next week, by the way. And we have an incredible lineup of guests.

I don't think this is the last time Waller comes up. And there is some connective tissue, Gregie, in this segment and fantasy talk. Waller is a huge guy in terms of big-time All-Pro production. Would you be all right? I mean, I'm fine with the idea that he's rebounding. Rebounding? Rebounding. Rebounding. I've always said it that other way for some reason.

I think I was taught that way. Well, you did live in Surrey for three months. I think I was taught that way. I mean, I don't need the numbers to be Titanic. for me to think that he's stormed back in a certain way and helps the Raiders in a different situation than he did in the pastro. It was like him and Hunter Renfro on islands. There was no one else.

Right. I think if you think, I think it's a great pick because of the coach. Because of Josh McDaniels partly. Didn't even mention Josh McDaniels. Thank you for bringing that up. Like there was a, he was absent, by the way,

for about two and a half weeks in training camp and no one was totally sure why. Eventually they said it was a hamstring injury. Well, he was home, you know, but there's a thing where you broadcast the game and you sit there with a microphone practicing announcing. Reflection. Right. And McDaniels smiled when they sort of

asked these work. So it might have been a quiet hold-in. He is in a contract year. But they said it wasn't a holden. They said it was an injured. Did you just add contract year on top of everything? Look out. If you think of what Josh McDaniels has done and I think what Derek Carr can do well,

getting guys open over the middle of the field, delivering the ball over the middle of the field. And I'll bring up another name who was the subject. Mark's just going to sit out the second. Yeah, the subject of a very uncomfortable. No, no, no, not that. A subject, who he reminds me of a little bit.

And it was a subject of another dark day in our work history. And that's Aaron Hernandez as a player. It's just the truth. That was McDaniels and that was the way that they can use two tight ends and they have a good blocker in Fabian Morrow. And the way that Waller moves, he is very similar to me. and McDaniels knew how to get the most out of that type of playing. We're just one O.J. Simpson reference away from bad NFL guy, bingo.

You know, we're at the point, like, it happened, but we can speak about, you know, what he was as a player. I did this a little differently, which I now feel embarrassed, because every time we do a segment, I don't always understand what's happening. But also, we did not sit down and, you know, totally hammer it out. Then I went rogue. But I just did it from the perspective of the player. Right. So it's just a little narrative from the player, and here we go. Sure.

Speaking of, just going to be concerned with what's the best for him. When you guess, there's a long, narrow, written down monologue. Don't conduct me to that previous part of the show. I apologize. Most segments funnel into a similar Sessler mode, and I'm looking forward to it. Well, it's also not too long, so it won't tax either of you too heavily. This is just him talking to us. I had no idea what this league would look like

feel like everyone was telling me you're a home run you've got this it's going to be easy for you sunshine you're a star baby but it didn't feel like one last season not at all

my golden main flows in the southern wind but I found a strand of gray in there after last season after seeing my coach kick a kicker After seeing my coach With a co-ed nestled in his lap While the rest of us flew home from Cincinnati

We've got a new coach now And I'm going to put him on the phone for you for a second To let him tell you something Here he is That in parentheses is like Like phone fumbling sounds Yeah sure Hello?

I just want to tell everyone something There's two guys here I'm no longer pissed off, Angelo Oh You've got Trevor Lawrence and Doug Peterson both as Rebound candidates. Oh, no.

I get that he was a rookie and it's like it was a tough rookie season, but I think he was put into dark, dark circumstances. Had he gone to New England or somewhere else, his season would have looked real different. And so I think he's different than just the normal year one, year two rookie quarterback. I think this is perhaps even safer

than Patrick Mahomes, not a takedown of your pick. Sure. I want to be right. It's a partial. Take down. I had it on my list too, but it's just too obvious. Unless everyone, no, I don't mean it like that.

Unless everyone, look, I have it right here. I had Trevor all lined up as well. Okay. Unless everyone is wrong. Right. Like the pre-draft process, all that game tape, all the people like the DJs of the world and Bucky Brooks is of the world, you know, they can't all be wrong about a guy that they were this sure about, right?

And then you saw things, even amidst all the chaos last year, you did see some of the light coming through at times. And I just think it makes so much sense for him in a functional surroundings with better supporting cast to take a jump. Maybe not to Patrick Mahomes' second year in the league jump, but where it's like, yeah, we have our guy. I feel very confident about that. I do, but I would also say, I mean, there were little sparkles last season.

I actually, this is a small sample size, but his play against the preseason game was optimistic too. But until you see it, with quarterbacks in general... He used the B word. What? We're not talking about anybody connected with that. Well, against the opponent that he faced. But until you see it, it's like I think people are expecting him to be a star.

And we just don't know that yet. I think he's an environment where that's much more possible. He's reportedly looked really good at practice too, for the most part, like improved a different player. the question I just would have and sometimes his accuracy goes up and down I think that's the one concern but you know you can still be great if you're not

the most accurate guy I guess my question would be to Mark just like how did you envision this segment as being different than the off-season inner monologue segment which we did one month ago I didn't necessarily view it as different I mean I thought we were

I'm making a pitch for I'm just making a pitch for I also like I mean you know if you went director's cut. I have like seven more of these. So like, oh, wow. That's good. All right, maybe I got a pivot here. You don't. You don't. All right, before we continue with our rebound talk, let's take a quick break. What's up everybody? Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Sticks, we take you inside the game from scouting reports and player development to team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. Every week, we study the tape,

Talk to decision makers and share the insights you won't find anywhere else. It's the kind of conversation that connects the dots, from college football prospects to the NFL stars of tomorrow. We break down the draft, analyze matchups, and evaluate how teams put it all together on game day. Plus, we dig in the coaching strategies, roster construction, and the trends that shape the league year after year. Whether you're a die-hard fan or just love understanding the game on a deeper level,

we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box, score this podcast is for you don't miss it listen to the move the six podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts all right we're back do another one okay um i will because it's about the same um i am a man who this podcast has made famous even more famous I'm a man who rises and falls based on the talent that's around me. I'm a man who at one point was leading the greatest show on turf since the greatest show on turf, the 2015 Bengals, so that dastardly, dastard injury came up back then and knocked out my potential MVP season.

And I've basically become a punchline since. But you know what? I've just landed in a perfect system for my skills. And that's a Pete Carmichael slash Sean Payton system where you get the ball out of your hands quickly. And oh, by the way, some nice people around me, Alvin Camara, Jarvis Landry, Michael Thomas, Chris Alave, Marcus Callaway. That's pretty good. Do I want a quarterback like James Winston, who's coming off an injury and hurt and it's going to be up and down and who takes a while to make decisions? or do I want a little pea-suter in the backfield?

The point guard like myself is just bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-boo. That's what you want. Maybe I'm not starting week one, but at some point, the Daltonissance is coming to New Orleans. He's got to come in and he's got to have a moment. I'm coming in. The most fascinating aspect to this is that you're essentially demystifying James Winston, who's another one of your fetish quarterbacks in the process of this.

He's not going to start 17. games, first of all. Why won't he start 14? Through whether he's already missed time in camp. He's coming off a torn ACL. It's pretty durable before the ACL. That's absolutely fair. How many games do you think Dalton's starting?

I have no idea. What the hell are you talking about? He's an up and down player. I truly believe this, that Andy Dalton will play a, maybe it'll be a supporting role or a guest starring role, but he will play a guest-starring role of major significance. And I really do believe. And I know I'm kind of basing this on practice reports

where it's like, man, that offense, it just makes sense to me that he fits there. And then I think if he gets a chance, I think he could succeed and win a lot of ball games and have a little moment here. I've always been on this podcast historically, the biggest Dalton supporter. But even I had kind of moved on in the last year or so

where it just became clear to me that he was what he was. He had peaked as a quarterback and was a very, you know, backup, a good backup, but very much a backup. I like this idea that he has another moment in him. He's 34. Wouldn't it be crazy if after all that time he finally get, I can just sort of imagine it that he gets his first playoff win, not as a Bengal. But like on the road, he's supported by the number three defense and a lot of talent. He was so good that 2015 season before he got ready. I just mean that he kind of fits to me.

James Winston is like putting on a weird suit that might not totally fit him, and he did an okay job of it last year, but it was like awkward. Can I just make one counterpoint here? Please. There wasn't a team that he was on where he came in and had to become the starter on an offense that was essentially loaded, and it was the Dallas Cowboys. He started nine games, played in 11 through 14 touchdowns over nine plus appearances and eight interceptions.

I mean, that's a strong point that you just said. Yeah, that Cowboys team stunk, right? No, I mean, it was Mike McCarthy. What do you mean? Stunk. It's a similar offense. I mean, the team. Dak Prescott was on pace to like break yardage records.

The offensive line was when Dalton play was collapsing. But the Cowboys were taking on serious water when Dak got hurt. I'm just saying that was not a good Cowboys team. The defense was a disaster. The offense was not a bad spot as well. It's all connected. It's not a terrible place for a quarterback to produce. numbers at all.

Have you guys ever seen the Twitter clips of like Dalton dunking? I mean, if someone's going to get a rebound, a rebound, that's Dalton. Like, he's an athlete. Put him on the court. I also think also he looked extremely nerdy in the past and his haircut over the last calendar year has him looking. I would say like about as attractive, you just want to maximize your own looks. He looks about as attractive as he possibly could.

Maybe it's partly what happened the last two seasons with the Saints where they've had like three different starters that I just expect that it'll be a combo planet and that there's not going to be much difference and that there's a legitimate chance Andy Dalton is the better quarterback for them. That Dalton 2020 relief effort which included

11 starts they went 6 and 5 with him and he threw 14 touchdowns against eight interceptions he had multiple games. Pedestrian. No, I mean his he was up and down but he had some good performances. He was good.

all I'm saying is sandwiched around a COVID-19 list visit. All I'm saying is we're talking about an explosion in the Saints offense with Andy Dalton. I think he could do the same thing he did there. Well, you know my feelings about the Saints. There's a little too much of gassing up of the Saints right now. I think my team's slogan of the Saints was they're going to be awesome as long as four things go right. And if Winston doesn't get it done and you need Dalton to be the guy. You're already in trouble.

And by the way, he was four and five as a starter with that Dallas team. He participated in two other games in a relief effort where, like, they... I stand by statistically that he was very good for a guy coming off the bench. He had multiple games over with 100 pass a rating. You're calling him a backup, though. I like to take the step back and just sort of see, like, the whole arc of a career. And I just can see this as being like his denomont, you know, this is the Daltonissance. Well, he's thrown over 25 touchdowns twice in 11 Cs.

This is like the point where everyone stopped making fun of him and everyone can just kind of appreciate good for him. Greg is not listening to anyone else. He's just barreling through with this absurdity. This is what Greg's thinking of with Andy Dalton. Last time he played meaningful snaps. Week 15 division game against the Eagles, a 37-17 Cowboys win, 22 and 30, three touchdowns,

a pick 134.7 pass a rating, averaging 12.5 yards an attempt. Is that still in him? Why not? Is it in him 14 games in a row? He's going to have one game like that, but now we're hen- He's on the rebound. How about even last year? He's on the rebound.

Rebound. How about last year, that stirring comeback against Seattle? Oh, you missed that one? It was exciting. Oh, 29 to 3. Oh, last year when he started six games and threw eight touchdowns and nine picks. I have, all right. I'll have one more.

I have a philosophical disconnect as a host of the show with competing agencies for what the segments about so I'm going to stick to the initial plan which is I'm going to describe this player I think that's good go for it um this is I didn't intentionally like go my own way I just didn't know what we were doing well that could be I could have sought out I could have sought out I could have sought out more guidance on that front that's that's another way to you know to look at that that could be debated but we love your your spirit mark I like this guy's spirit because we we've spoken with him multiple times um and if you're looking at for a guy who's going to rebound case closed look no further than the guy that gets to line up

opposite the Super Bowl MVP who's catching passes from a suddenly on the bubble hall of famer for the defending champions yes I'm going to tell you Alan Robinson I'm going to pound the table again I don't know if Alan Robinson was trying last year with the bears I'm not going to challenge that. I wasn't close. I didn't have boots on the ground at Bears headquarters to tell you that he was, you know, just going through the motions in his final year. But there were people that did have boots on the ground that got the vibe that Alan Robinson was sick of it. He was sick of being a bear and what that meant. And can you really blame him? Especially when they made that terrible decision to give Nagy one more year. So now, fresh start with arguably the best

offensive mind in football. If Alan Robbins and stays healthy, this is going to be one of those seasons. I'm not saying it's going to be Randy Moss's first year with the Patriots, but it's going to be in that kind of realm of the guy

that's a stud, Moss is a Hall of Fame or different category, but a really super talented, all pro level player who is completely revitalized on a good team and a well-run organization, playing with other great players. And it wouldn't stun me if Alan Robbins ended up with a better final statistical line in 2022 than even Cooper Cup.

Whoa. No, it wouldn't. Because Cup, I think, that's no disrespect to Cup. But very rarely does a player put up a historically great season and then do it again. Cup is probably going to come down closer to what he was before. And then Robinson is going to pick up some of that. I think he's going to be a monster rebounding from a brutal final year in Chicago. I think you want to be right about these.

And so I would say, initially I would say that that was safe because I had him too. I had 400 yards last year. Right. And so he's clearly and also. He's going to triple that. But to say that he's going to surpass Cooper Cup, that took it to a new level. And I think that's a. You're out there on a ledge and I like that.

He's going to see more. The roundbound of rebound. More single coverage this year than he ever has in his life. Right. With an actual quarterback who also went through like three Viannons. Do you know how many times like he's just been out there by himself? for half the game in his career. You know who I think is the only receiver?

Darnal Mooney came on strong, but they weren't really great at the same time. The only receiver he ever had in Jacksonville that would get 1,000 with him was Alan Hearns. Like, he's always been the guy, and now he's in this scheme with Cooper Cup. That's a nice spot. Is there a more 90s sports nickname

than the round to mound of rebound? It's pretty great. Let's ask a millennial. Justin, who is that? You know, I have to Google, don't. Yeah, look at it. I mean, you don't need to. You were betrayed by your own producer, Cam.

No, I was looking for that sound. Oh, okay. Dennis Rodman? Okay. I mean, does he strike you as a round man? Not really, but he was. Charles Barkley, Sir Charles, also known as. That one makes more sense.

The round mound of rebound. Rebound. All right, one more, Mark. All right, so, I mean, when we were discussing in the studio here after the show yesterday, I did ask if we could go someone who's non-player, but in the orbit of the NFL. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yes, you said yes, so I hope just so you remember that. Here we go.

I'm going to attempt to do a voice here, which could be a disaster. Now suddenly he's wearing that. Now he's playing by the rules. He's like coloring in the line. No, I want you to remember that that was said. I'm going to attempt to do a voice, which I'm not good at. But I think it needs this, so here we go. I will get my way soon enough.

My plan was foiled. But I will rebound to achieve my goals. I am goal-oriented ever since girlhood. A woman can detect things no man can. I can feel the earth's vibration. Also the energy of a man, my special man. I sense that he is worn down. I see him staring out windows

walking alone beside the brook we had come up with a plan what accent is this I don't know I would support him now you understand when you want it we say I would support him now as I am a powerfully entity worth over 400 million US dollars

but he went his own way so I had to do what I did conk him out with a tincture of high octane sleeping pills and tie him up in his subterranean living room of our second guest house. The team has no idea where he is. Don't fret.

He is absolutely fine in sticking to his diet. We are a vegan family, but we are no longer a football family. If Giselle has anything to say, I am Giselle Bunchin, and I will get my way. I will rebound. That's good.

Didn't know if you could stick the landing there, but you did it. He nailed it. My favorite Giselle quote will always be, my husband can't throw the ball and catch you too who was it who got Wes Welker who took the hammer on that one was it Walker

I think so the the theory here the bucks don't know where he is and they're just trying to they're trying to PR that softly and that's why he'll be back in theory two weeks from now what I love about this is I'm guessing you wrote that Giselle wrote this before Thursday's Todd Bulls press conference

it was probably not watching that he did answer an interesting question today on his return. When will Tom Brady return? It's a fair question. He said, we'll see. We'll talk about it next week. So at some point, he said they'll be back after the Titans.

He said, we're going to play the Titans, play a game sometime after Tennessee. No definitive date for me. We'll keep in touch, and then we'll find out. It's just interesting. It's strange. I mean, he did say the whole thing was pre-planned, but they don't have a pre-planned return. It's just interesting. Well, come from the angle that they actually don't know where he is.

Like, then a lot of stuff starts to make sense. Just remember I told you Tom Brady wasn't retiring. And I'm going to tell you again, Tom Brady's not retiring. Well, he hasn't retired. I mean, if I was putting. He will resurface. He will resurface and he will be on the field for week one. I believe it was our, it made the finals of our tournament.

Cowboys, Bucks. If it's Kyle Trask starting. I'm not a, that's going. That was, it's going way out, first round. Let me use some, I hope Tom Brady's back. And I hope everything's good behind the scenes for Tom. There's nothing untoured or unfortunate going on in Mr. Brady's life. But we'll see him week one.

There is, well, I even go down this road, I guess. But there is that like, you know, it happens sometimes. The guy who retires and then comes to the training camp and it's like, eh, maybe not. Does that strike you as Tom Brady? No. But it does happen with mortal. Tom Brady thought that inside he wasn't sure he was the same Tom Brady. That was Greg agreeing with his own point.

Oh, yeah. What? That's good. I love a good, Greg. You know, to use a, to use football parlance, Greg, what Mark does with some of these segments sometimes, it's like the defensive and who freelances. Right. And the coaching staff's like, man, he's kind of out for, you know, his own thing a little bit. But, you know, sometimes it makes plays that makes the team better.

And so we got to live with it, but we'd like if, you know, played within the rules and wasn't freelancing. Right. I wasn't angling to freelance. I just, I didn't know. It's a great one. Like, it can go both ways. Sometimes it turns into, yeah, like a. Yeah, like trust the star's instincts.

Lawrence Taylor, you know. Aaron Donald's been known to freelance. I don't mind those comparisons. Right. But sometimes it turns into like a Jalen Smith situation with the Cowboys last year and then you have to make a change. Well, I think we could leave it there But as long as you brought the heat Ultimately, Giselle did it.

That sounds like a lot more free time If you make change You got to the quarterback in this case But there are other times where you leave the gap open Right Well, that's what you get And there goes Jonathan Taylor He's a top 10 football inside

Sese! You take the good with the unexpected with Mark. Sessie really needs to catch on more Last thing since we're talking about Mark and we talked about that team in the first half of the show.

I had my doubts initially about your ability to disconnect. But, God, are they making it easy for fans to not get back in? Yeah, I don't even feel tempted. I mean, it's just kind of like, I'm over. Maybe the true test is, you know, if they're six and five

and then they reel off, not you, but like, do they, are they going to recapture a lot of the disenfranchised fans? You know, I would, Greg, I know you're hearing from the when you, whenever you mention the Browns, but I, like, have had a couple Browns tweets here and there, and I've been critical. And I really think

that a lot, the most of the fans drew that line in the sand a long time ago. And they've either completely dug in on the narrative of why they root for the team over the particulars of the team and others just have gone away. And I don't, I don't know if they're coming back. Will those people come back? That's maybe

more the answer. It's too bad, though. I mean, it is unfortunate. I understand where you're coming from and respect that. But it's too bad. He's had this relationship with the team as a fan through all these years. Like if they're four and one with Jacoby Brissette and like the number three ranked defense in the league, the number one ranked rushing attack in the league, and Brissette's like just doing his thing where he holds the ball forever and they win each game 1917, like that team Browns fans are going

to love and it's just going to be it's just going to be strange for you either way i think on sunday there is one other option and i tabled this uh maybe last week but now i'll bring it up since it feels like the right time mark god willing you're around a long time you'll probably outlast the quarterback management ownership is it possible in the NFL you're seeing mark Sessler is on a break and maybe when things are different you return to the Browns but this is not the Browns

that you want to be associated with at this time in your life. Is that a possibility? Yeah, I think that's because then you're... We were on a break, friends. You're disassociating everything from this to a new Browns team, yeah. But I also say this is a weird thing because I think it's like well, once you're a fan of a team you've got to stay with them forever

and that's what I thought I would do. It feels strangely free and freeing to not have the Browns thing as part of my life. I don't, I thought I would be... But it also defined, the mark I know, it defined part of who you were and it was a thing that you loved as much as anything in the world.

That's got to be tough to lose that part. But what I'm saying actually is what surprised me is it's the opposite. It feels great to not, it was this thing going back to the middle school of my life. And it's like, it's gone. And I kind of think you just start to recreate. Well, I hope your journey, wherever it takes you is, you are in a good place.

Right. Well, TBD on that. You are going to, you are going to outlast them all. Mark's going to outlast everyone. It's not going to be until maybe the year 281, where it says, here lies Sesse. When does Mark die? Yes. Next show.

Here lies Sessie. Fan of the Browns until 2022. Until he wasn't. All right. That's it for this week. Big week next week. We're getting closer. In fact, today is, I think we're, damn,

three weeks away as of today from the kickoff of Bill's Rams. So next week will be our, this is unbelievable to even say this, but it is our 38th annual fantasy extravaganza next week, with a whole slew of special guests from across the fantasy spectrum, both inside our building and out next Wednesday. Lots of fun stuff coming up. But that is always one of my favorite shows of the year.

And also one, as a fantasy competitor, myself, that I feel like I glean a lot from, and it makes me a better player. So I have reasons for enjoying that episode as well. 38. I mean, it is crazy. I mean, I'm trying to remember when we did that in 1986. I mean, we were different people then, too. You reached for Cozar, I remember.

I mean, it was done on paper and pen back then. It was a totally strange scenario. All right, that's it. Let's go. Ironically enough, this is the second straight 38th annual. Well, all right. That's fine. Well, it looks like lots to change it to 46.

All right, the 46th annual fantasy extravaganza next week, as well as two other brand new shows, and the hard knocks recap of episode three with Connie Fox and myself. So a lot of great ATN content coming your way. But until then, enjoy your weekend. There's a lot of ugliness in the world. Shut it out. Let in the light. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Case closed. Heat the call. You know, In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you.

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Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo. Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team-building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

We study the tape. decision makers and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.