NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Week 10 Recap: Saints dominate in lock-off victory & time to fork the Jets

Episode Date: November 13, 2017

Are the Bills finally showing their true colors? (3:30); A solid victory for the Vikings, who look to be on the up and up (10:00); The Rams solidifying their case as a playoff contender (24:00); Wess declares war on Lions fans and defends his take on Golden Tate (37:40); Dan scolds the ATN Subredditers and gives them a sad horn for choosing the Jets as their Lock of the Week pick (41:00); Brett Hundley takes some promising steps forward, possibly giving Packers fans hope (46:30); Just how bad have the Giants become? (52:00); The Patriots are on their way to another Super Bowl (59:00); and more!Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast has a questionable lock of the week record. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast presented by Head and shoulders. My name is Dan Hansis, and I'm joined by a room filled with heroes, Mark Sessler, Chris Wesleying two days in a row, and Greg Rosenthal. What's up, boys? Hey, Dan. That's progress. Well, it's just like old Daddy Wesser at a mimosa at Harry Hansis's

one-year birthday party. I just took slings and arrows from our producer for having a mimosa my first day back from drinking in six months. She stripped you of your man card about eight seconds before this show. It's gone. The shocking lack of empathy. Wes had to say, like, do I have to pull the C card here? At first drink, let me get into it. And Cindy's and Lindsay's all like, oh, listen, you know, where I come from,

everybody drinks bud heavy, and that's the only man drink there is. It's like, knock down. It's exactly what I said. It's exactly right. Like you captured the spirit of it. This is the week 10 recap show, Sunday night recap. show often imitated never duplicated um so many games to get to in uh week 10 and i'll tell you what i'm excited i'm officially excited now about as we're starting to peek forward you know peek ahead look at

you know mike francesa used to say the season doesn't start till after thanksgiving which you probably stole from parcels i'm guessing uh but as we head closer to thanksgiving the nfc in particular. The four teams in first place are combined 29 and 7. The Eagles are 8 and 1. The Vikings Saints and Rams all 7 and 2. That is a nice saucy conference that you can get behind. The AFC, still a mess, West. But the NFC is going to be a lot of fun as we go down the stretch in the season. I am really crossing my fingers and hoping for a Saints Eagles matchup in the NFC championship game. I think that will be a heck of a game. And these teams play each other a ton. And we'll be talking about it. I mean, the Rams played those three teams, I believe, in a row.

They're three out of four weeks. They play the Vikings and the Eagles and the Saints. And there's some Seahawks Eagles mixed in there. A lot of good games. So we're going to get to all those teams. And actually, why not? Why don't we start with one of those teams? And we'll start with one of the teams that Wes wants an NFC title game. The New Orleans Saints. Breeze in the shotgun. Do you really want to throw it? He looks to his left. Now to his right. Comes back over the middle. Rolls to his left. Staying a lot. looking into the end zone right the way to the side and it's going to be breeze to the pylon and in oh jim henderson w w w l chuckling him to himself because in a game in which drew breeze did not even throw a touchdown pass the saints nearly putting up a 50 burger the saints set of franchise record six rushing touchdowns including that one from drew breeze mark ingram had three which was a career high a 47 to 10 dismantling of the buffalo bills in orchard park Whoa. West, the Saints nearly put up a 50 burger, as I said.

Drew Brees doesn't have to carry the show because they are a well-balanced unit and that defense. Forget about it. Well, I said on Thursday's show this was a lopsided matchup, and it was a comprehensive evisceration, the likes of which I don't know I've seen all year and maybe only a handful times in all the football games I've ever seen in my life. Wow. When you guys go and watch this game, you will see the Saints doing. whatever they want to do on offense, marching up and down the field with long extended drives,

imposing their will on a defense that allowed 300 rushing yards. I mean, and we saw Buffalo get gashed by the Jets on the ground, and it was like, oh, it's the Jets, and it was Thursday night, so it's an aberration, and let's find out what happens to Buffalo. Something's wrong post-Marcel Darius trade, because what happened today was twice as bad. There was one play I saw earlier, I was trying to track this thing, a fourth and one play where they went for it, the Saints, handed it to Ingram. He blasted down to about the five-yard line, and you knew the game was over because they just

simply overpowered Buffalo. And it's a bad look, and I'm sure Marcel Darius is enjoying himself watching how badly they've struggled since he left, but it can't be all with Darius just leaving the picture. No, it's not all day. I mean, it's just in general, like it's that thing. And it was right when, Greg, everyone got sucked into the bills as finally being a playoff-type team this year. And now, and not to take anything away from the Saints, but the bills just haven't showed up in two weeks. They play the best running team in the league. So it's a combination of

things. So yet they haven't showed up and they have to feel terrible about themselves in terms of how the last two weeks have gone. But they also have the worst matchup possible today. And they're playing a running team who's been about as good at running as we've seen a team be in the last few years. This was a reckoning. The bills all season have been well-coached overachievers with a shallow roster. And they're still that. I want to get after Bill's fans a little bit for cheering so loudly when they brought in Nathan Peterman in garbage time taking out Tyrod Taylor. I know Tyraud Taylor didn't have a good game or anything,

but a little too happy about that. They've been through a lot. Yeah. They've been through a lot. I've been through it because I picked the bills. I was going to keep my lock streak alive. And I stand by the logic. But now it looks a lot worse, obviously,

because the Saints now look as good as anybody. in the league period. This was going on the road in November against the team that plays well at home that's had a really nice season. And then, like Wes says, embarrasses them in a humiliating fashion. Like, whoa, I'll just deal with it.

You were attempting to tie my impressive lock streak that ended last season. And we had a lock off. And I used my sort of Cessler analytics style to look at this game and say, I'm very comfortable taking the road team here. Wow. And it was 47. to three at one point. And it came out well, and so I'm not going to gloat, but a nice run by you, Dan.

Thank you very much. And now it's time to start over and try to get back to tie my streak again. I know this is going to pain you. It's humbling, but I'll take first place in the overall standings and all-time standings home with me tonight. Well, those are a fair concession prizes. I think you have to consider the Saints Super Bowl contenders because of that formula you mentioned, going on the road, in cold weather, outside of that friendly dome that they've taken

advantage of so much, but the best teams of the Sean Payton era have been the teams that had a power runner like Deuce McAllister teamed with that scatback. And Alvin Camara is more than a scatback. Oh, yeah. He is shedding tacklers, the likes of which you don't see from a passing down back. He might be, he's back in the rookie of the year mix now because of the Sean Watson's injury because Leonard Fournette hasn't really been showing up lately. Cream Hunt has hit a slump. Right. He is in that mix. And I want to see this Saints defense play against a really good offense, but we'll see that down the stretch. They got the Rams in a couple weeks.

One last thing. Camara and Ingram are now on pace for almost 3,000 yards combined, 2,900. That is incredible. And I do want to give credit to Dan. I think it was very humble, as you mentioned, to mention that you're leading in the overall records and the season after accepting the loss. Thank you. Thank you very much.

I also add that you're in last place. Dead last. We give it off. Well, this seems like a weird point for this, but I'll take it anyway. Thanks, Lindsay's fitting right in. You lost, but you won. You still win. Thank you.

I take issue with that bit of production right there. Let's move on checking out another one of those NFC superpowers. Shotgun single back right, subtle playfake, a flick into the right, flat catch made. Thielen makes a block and springs free. Jerry is right, who plunges in for a touchdown. Paul Allen, KF, XN with the call. The Minnesota Vikings keep rolling. in case Keenham threw four touchdown passes, each to a different receiver.

And the Vikings went on the road to beat the Redskins 3830. Their fifth consecutive win, Keenham here, also through two second half interceptions that gave the Redskins life. But Minnesota, they made that early lead stand up. And my first takeaway from the game, gentlemen, if this team can put together, you know, 30 burgers, putting up 25 plus points a game with, that defense, just as the Saints are a team that you're also, whoa, this is like a Super Bowl level team potentially. The Vikings, if their offense really starts clicking, forget about it. Well, and throw the Rams in there. Like, it just backs our point up that the NFC suddenly hasn't, in some cases, new faces, new teams, new identities. They're all balanced. They're all

balanced. I mean, a complaint in this room was like, you know, these teams aren't the same every week. It's just kind of like a big middle of the NFL. And that's true for a lot of the NFL, but it's actually been kind of a stacked year where in the NFC now. where four of these teams are on pace. It's going to take 12, 13 wins to get a buy. Well, I think you have to give Rick Spielman a lot of credit for how deep and well-rounded this roster is. They lose their starting quarterback, Sam Bradford, who had played as well as he ever did

in the opener. They lose a rookie of the year type of player in Dalvin Cook. They lose Stefan Diggs, who had been one of the hottest receivers in the league in September. They lose him for almost a month. And they're rolling. And they get Case Keenham for one year and $2 million. And he's channeled 2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick as a guy who is playing to the level of his surrounding talent and actually not just being a game manager, but making plays too. Well, to that point also, does it scare you at all if you're getting into the Vikings as a true contender in this league that like Ryan Fitzpatrick, there was always this fear that at any moment the guy can go back to being what he'd been for most of his career.

I would say if I'm the Vikings fan, that's my fear. but then you do have Teddy Bridgewater also waiting in the wing. So they have almost, even if Keenham goes bad, you have this other guy who's also a question mark. And he made his first, has made his return to the league today. I think it was 442 days. Teddy Bridgewater went between active appearances in the NFL. And after the national anthem was played,

they showed him on the sideline wiping tears away from his face. And a season that's been marked by injuries and losing star players and all these terrible things happening to have a guy that made it back from a series injury. Here's what Bridgewater had to say after the game. Being able to stand next to those guys on the sideline for the national anthem, I mean, it's just, it all bored up. I kind of screamed a little on the sideline after I said my prayer in the end zone.

I screamed a little. And then when I got on the sideline, it was like, man, it's really about to happen. But like I said, today, it was a great moment for my life, my personal life. But it was even a better moment for this team. We got out there, we competed, and we won a big game that we needed to win on the road. And after the game, Adam Thielenson out of tweet, you know, love this man. He's an inspiration to many, including me, talking about Teddy Bridgewater. And Case Keenham, you know, retweets that and says this on top of it.

And you get a feeling just because I think, and we saw Case Keenham in Harnox and got a feel for who he is as a guy. And you definitely get a great feel of who Teddy Bridgewater is as a guy. That this is working. Like that this could be a weird. weird situation almost and everyone loves Teddy Bridgewater, but I think like everyone there is, there's such good people that it's working and like they're, they've been a good offensive team this season. It's not all defense. I like how they're talking during the game. Oh, Adam Thielen is now a star. I mean, we have been tracking Adam Thieland dating back to late last

season and he does this no matter who the quarterback is every week. He thinks an incredibly tough physical guy that rests the ball away from defenders. He had catches today of 49, 38, 38 and 17 yards. He does it every week. So whether it's Keenham, I don't think it's going to turn midnight and the offense is going to fall apart. There are some reliable things around him and they have depth at that position if nothing else.

All right. And quarterbacks develop. Quarterbacks develop. Well, Case Keenham's, he's kind of, I feel like he is what he is at this point, but he's having a really nice season. And Thielen, this is a monster game. Like he's been an impact player for them, but this is the type of production that really will put him on the map for a wider range of people.

So the Vikings move to seven and two. Let's check in a big NFC battle. Prescott. Oh, Claybourne got a hand on it. Loose ball and Atlanta has recovered. And Claiborne knocked it loose. That, if that is stat in an official sack, that will be six. Wow.

What a day for Adrian Claiborne. Yes, indeed. West Durham, WZG with the call. Adrian Claiborne said a falcon. record with six sacks. Wes, he put an XL clown suit on backup Cowboys left tackle, Chaz Green, and anyone else who got in his way as the Falcons cruised to a 27-7 win over the Cowboys who saw their three-game winning streak snapped.

Chris, we'll get to the Falcons in a second, but let's start with Dallas, who looked positively hopeless with Tyron Smith and Zeke Elliott out of the lineup. And they lose Sean Lee to a hamstring injury. So you find out in this game, what is the value of an all-pro player? They lose three all-pros. Right. And the whole offensive attack was stymied. Adrian Claiborne had six sacks.

He's only one time in seven years of his career, had more than that in a season, an entire season. Chas Green started at left tackle, and at one point, Troy Aikman said, this is about as bad of a beating as I've ever seen any player take on a field. Chas Green got benched at guard, and their running game didn't take off until Jonathan Cooper replaced him about a month ago. So you see in the first half, without Elliott, they have no running game. And without Tyrone Smith, they have no pass protection. Dak Prescott has seen how the other half lives. And Adrian Claiborne after the game, he's like, I mean, he even said, I don't know what the thing. I'm not exactly.

He said, I'm not exactly a situational pass rusher here. That's not normally my game. I mean, you look at Adrian Claibor. He's been through some really devastating injuries. He's a big guy. He's not a guy you normally expect to see, like, bending the edge. But the thing is, they brought in a backup to take over for Green late in the game, and he got two more sacks.

I don't know. He's just like God's very concerning. It is not built like Jadavian Clowny or something like that. So seeing this happen, but on some of these plays, it was like almost like it was not, let him not be mean to the guy. You know, can you trust the guy named Chaz at left tackle? Probably not. So that's probably Dallas's first mistake.

But on some of those sacks, he didn't even get a hand on the guy. Well, you might want to give him help, too. I mean, would it kill him to get a chip block or two in there? Did they do anything different in the second half, though, to adjust blocking schemes to get something else to help them? I noticed no help. Witt was involved a little bit. I saw once things got out of hand,

but, I mean, when they put up the white flag and take Chaz Green out of the game, and then you're putting in essentially the third string left tackle, I mean, just a really grim effort. And then on the falcons side, West, where were your takeaways? They looked like the Falcons. They lose Devante Freeman early to,

what looked like a concussion and Tevin Coleman had one of his best games of the year I thought Matt Ryan looked good but I think Matt Ryan has looked good all season. Thank you it's good to have someone else support. I mean if you're watching the games Matt Ryan is having a fine season. Well I'm watching the games too and I don't think he's missing throws and the numbers

back it up. He doesn't have he's not having the same year. Well that's because you see Olio Jones miss an easy touchdown you'll see they just miss on a couple of plays by inches. Right. He's still the same quarterback he's always been. They're often really should get credit, even though the numbers aren't crazy.

I mean, it's 7-3 in the middle of the third, in the middle of the second quarter, and they go nine plays for a touchdown, then 11 plays for a touchdown that takes up half the third quarter, and then another long drive for a field goal. Cowboys only had the ball once over that span, and the Falcons put up 17 points, holding the ball, and that's kind of what they are. They're not getting big plays. That's the biggest difference. They were a big play offense last year.

They are not getting big plays this year. But they are moving the ball well, and today they finish their drive. That's on the coordinator who's taking a lot of, I guess, criticism for specific play calls. But to me, the biggest thing is guys who need space like Taylor Gabriel, Kyle Shanahan knew how to give him that space, and Sarkeesian has not. Adrian Claiborne, six sacks. I think only four players in NFL history have done that before him. Pretty wild.

Adrian Claiborne is now in that group. Let's move on to an AFC matchup. Canada with a snap, Barry with a hold to decide this football game, hopefully, in Pittsburgh's favor. Good snap, ball down, kick on its way. The boss comes through, and the Pittsburgh Steelers come from a big hole and win a very important game. And come back from an apparent death. Bill, Bill Hillgrove. Come back to us, Bill.

Wait, so did Chris Boswell take the boss? from Brian Bosworth? I don't think he can call a kicker the boss. No, of course not. Well, it's been labeled on him. Did he actually label himself that? I'm going to assume, yes, that he is all on board with them. Just because you nickname yourself doesn't mean everyone does.

Ben Rathlisberger's 32-yard completion to Antonio Brown with less than a minute to play, set up that 33-yard game-winning field goal from the boss as time expired. The Steelers escape with a 20 to 17 win in Indianapolis against the Colts. Greg, the Steelers woke up just in time to avoid an embarrassing setback. Yeah, you never know what to think in games like this, where the Steelers clearly sleepwalked and they've done this time and time again. I think they were seven and 14 on the road against sub-500 team in the last four years or five years under Mike Tomlin.

And they probably should have lost this one. And the game turns on a Jack Doyle drop that's intercepted inside the 10-yard line that Ryan Chazir makes a great diving point. play and then they get it going and you want to just kill the Steelers but then again at some point it's second and 17 with 126 left in the game and there by no means is this game just automatic Steelers are going to win it at that point and Ben Rothensberger makes three great plays in a row to Bell to Brown to Bryant and you know I don't know you deserve credit for that you deserve credit for making your best plays of the game when it's up against it can have credit they can have all the credit

they want. But they've played an awful defense today. And the one thing I would say is, because downstairs we all got into a little bit about this whole Steelers thing. And I know, Greg, you think very highly of them. I think you should. In an AFC that is an absolute and total abomination. They're probably ticketed for the AFC title game. But they are not even, if you just put the league across the way, I don't see Pittsburgh of the equal of some of these NFC teams. They're not even close. They're not as consistent, but at their best, I think they can be any team. And to me, the conference is, yes, NFC is way deeper, but the, you know, AFC has Patriots, as Chiefs. How long if we waited for the Steelers to go

at their best two or three games in a row in January when it was? Well, we saw it two games in a row and their two biggest games of the year when they absolutely steamrolled the best competition they played. You got to give a little credit to the Colts who absolutely dominated two opponents in the NFL the last two weeks. They showed up, had a good effort for 30 minutes. It wasn't enough and the better team wins. Well, I think one of the hallmarks of the Tomlin is that they sleepwalk on the road against inferior teams. And then the next week they go and dismantle one of the best teams in the league. That's what they've been doing for a year.

It's a good sign to me that Smith-Schuster, I think, is here for good. Martavis Bryant's return was iffy at best. Interception on a ball thrown to him, a big loss in yardage. But I think Smith-Schuster really adds a lot. That guy can play. He can play. Every week, he's in the middle of something. And offense has been up and down.

Smith-Schuster has been a guy that's been making plays almost every week Three yards shy of becoming the first Steelers rookie ever to have back-to-back 100-yard receiving games. Is there any concern about Levi-on-Bell once again, 26 carries today used in the past game as well? Do we just say roll? I didn't see the game. I've had no concerns with him. It hasn't slowed down. I mean, he hasn't slowed down.

You do worry because at this point, you know, you just haven't seen many running backs have that many carries and hold up. I do feel for Colts fans, by the way, because there are Colts fans. It is excrued. Their season has. Wouldn't there be? They're awesome. Wow. I know, but we never talk.

We never talk about them. I feel like they're pretty under the radar. Their season has been excruciating if you're a Coltsman. They have blown so many fourth quarters. Like, they could very easily be six and four this year as bad as their roster is. And really, they don't deserve it. Like, they have blown these fourth quarter leads like it's nobody's business. Yeah, you act like we overlook the Colts.

We've gotten exclusives with their general manager. That's fair. What's your favorite type of frog? Bullfrog. Let's move on. No huddle golf. Back to pass from his end zone straight down the middle of the field. He's got a man wide open.

Robert Woods catches it at the 45. No one will catch him. Robert Woods with a 94-yard touchdown from Jared Gough. And the Rams extend their lead on the Texans. Another NFC superpower. Jared Gough for a career high in yardage, went over 300 yards, three touchdowns. And the Rams defense made life hell for an overmatch time. Savage, a 30 to 7 win over the Texans at the Coliseum.

You know, this could have been Jared Goff against the Sean Watson. A lot of fun, maybe a shootout. Instead, we got this. Anyway, this game changed on that 94-yard touchdown connection from Goff to Robert Woods, who is unquestionably the most productive former Billswide receiver in L.A. Mark, the 7-2 Rams can overwhelm you in an almost sneaky way. Yeah, this game, I would say that it boosted my trust of the Rams in a big way because for two plus quarters, it looked like Jeff Fisher had stolen into the building and was calling

offense because they really were asleep. And the Texans defense, with Jedevi and Clowney especially, were fantastic early on. All you could ask them to do, they did. But two things happen. A, the Rams have an ability, and we've seen it week after week, to explode for spurts of time where it's not just yardage, it's points. And that happened with the 97-yard connection to Woods. And then they're also taking advantage. Their defense is also quality, obviously. And Tom Savage, and if we needed any more proof, give me a break. Two picks, two loss fumbles. He had a pick six called back.

He nearly had another pick six and saw another pass that he threw deep that should have been picked off as well. WTF, give me a break with Tom Savage. Are you saying that he... That he... That would be real bad at football. That'd be real bad. Yeah, I think that sound drop.

The team is absolutely, they're held back in a way that very few backup quarterbacks could even hope to do their team. Is TJ Yates still there? he got first team reps last week, T.J. I think you could see, you're going to see T.J. Yates, because it's not, it's one thing if you're you're Tom Savage and you cannot extend the play like Deshawn Watson, and you cannot see the field like Deshaun Watson. And they don't have much of a line. Well, they don't much of a line. And on top of it, you're turning the ball over like a waterfall. And so it's like, it's just,

it's too much. If you just watch the first half of this game, though, it's a close game. Yeah. And Tom Savage is kind of picking the Rams apart in the middle of the field. The first half looked like, like, again, like Jeff Fisher. It looked like last yours Rams and it was depressing and you thought, hmm, have they figured out some way to neutralize this offense? But it just, you have to hold them down for four quarters. I don't, I don't think T.J. Yates is an improvement on Tom Savage, even though everything Tom Savage does is in slow motion. Right. This is, this is the, where the Kaepernick argument has its strongest case right here. Just because this was a team that was sort of in the mix and you never know, did you have a shot in

the arm. Granted, Tom Savage started a week one, so he likes Tom Savage. But you also saw Bill O'Brien get so frustrated when Savage doesn't see a blitz coming, which is right in his face, like that's the one that the quarterback has to pick up. And Bill O'Brien just loses his mind afterwards, screaming about it. Like, how can you not see that? But his mind just isn't

there. Four game winning streak, they actually scored 33 points today. Four game winning streak now for the Rams who have now outscored their opponents during that streak 144 to 41. One thing I'd say, though, now we're going to find out who the Rams are. But that's pretty good.

Right, Mark? That's good. Is that good? All that's pretty shiny, Dan. It's nice. It can't get any better. You've got the Vikings and the Saints. Then you get, I guess you want to call it maybe somewhat of a week off against the Cardinals before dealing with the Eagles.

You basically are dealing with it. And then at Seattle after that. There's a Super Bowl run. Let's find out who you are. They are playing the four best teams in the NFC in a span of five weeks, which is wild. Another wild stat from this game. This is the first win by the Rams at the Coliseum other than an open. opening week win.

That's very strange. They came back. Seven and two team. Very strange. They haven't even been in the Coliseum for like a month. That's what happens when you play in USC's stadium. Let us move on. Brad gets it down.

Lambo kicks it up. And it is good. He didn't hit it very well. It barely got over, but it is good. Lambo is good from 30 yards away. And the Jaguars have beaten the Los Angeles Chargers at Everbank Field. Hey, Frank Frans, you come back to us. It was deflected.

W. JKL with the call. Josh Lambo kicked that 30-yard field goal. 312 remaining in overtime. The Jaguars, a 2017 win over the Los Angeles Chargers in one of the, I'm going to say, the silliest games of the year, at least the last hour of it. Greg, this game was a roller coaster.

It was like one of those final destination movies. There were like screws coming, rattling free, bodies flying all over the place. And when you have that type of game and the Chargers are involved, You know, they're one of the dead bodies at the end of it. Then they were, like, you thought they were done, like, finding painful ways to lose. But blocking a field goal that goes in after Philip Rivers throws an interception in overtime,

after you somehow lost the game in which you had the lead at the end of regulation, and Blake Bortles through two interceptions in the final two minutes of regulation, and yet you lost. If you think about it, I don't know if that's probably ever happened in NFL history. We would have to look that up that a quarterback who's losing

those two interceptions at the end and it was like a Blake Bortle's meltdown of epic proportions after he played three really strong quarters. He could not have been worse in the fourth quarter. He was throwing some balloons. And they still found a way

through conservative play calling and untimely turnovers between rivers and they're running back. Echler, who just fumbled at the very worst time. There's a bad fumble, too. And I, you know, I think, you know, the fumble rule and a lot of the rules with the NFL annoy me, the pylon rule, which we'll get to a little bit later. But I thought that was a touchdown.

Someone's got to explain to me that play. So Echler fumbles it. Who scoops it up? I don't remember. But it's scooped up and by a Jaguars player, there is no evidence from all the angles that CBS shows that he was touched. The ball seemed like it squirted out from the pile. He jumped up quickly, scored for a touchdown.

They come back with a review that he was down by contact. And then I guess what annoyed me the most is the official then says that he was touched down by an opponent. It's like, if you really believe that that's what happened, you should tell the audience at home which player you think touched this guy because nobody else saw it. We never saw it. We never saw a good view. New York thought they saw it. That's a big play to overturn it. And it almost costs in the game. Yep.

Right, because Bortals after that ends up throwing in an interception when they're in field goal range. And then Anthony Lynn gets too conservative, doesn't let Rivers even throw a pass there. Although I guess you could argue what Rivers did in overtime where he just throws one up just because it's kind of like a yolo play. It's just like, well, I don't want to tie the game. Let's just throw it up. He gets a intercept. We all love Philip Rivers, but I mean, he looked like he's about 79 years old on that. And he's always had an unorthodox delivery.

But that was one of the uglier throws you're going to see this season. I don't know why if you're, I mean, we know who Doug Barone is and how they've won some of the games they've won. Blake Bortles has thrown the ball 89 times over the past two weeks. I just, I don't see that game script, that strategy really lasting for Jackson. They really wanted to work. That stretch in the fourth quarter where it fell apart was he went two for 12 with the two picks. And then they got, they got, when they got down to the goal line, it was on a bunch of pass interference calls. I still don't think this Bortles thing is going to work.

Yeah, they're a fascinating team. They are. because we've known all along this is one of the best past defenses we've seen this century and the run defense with Marcel Darius is getting much stronger and he had a good game today too

their running attack is deep and talented where they can pull guys like Yeldin who was inactive earlier in the year and he plays pretty well Cory Grant comes in and busts off long run quite often but then you have a quarterback it's weird because you see all the comparisons to great defenses with bad quarterbacks And I don't know if we, you might have to go back to the 74 Steelers to find a great defense with a quarterback that is mistake prone and is prone to, you know, brain farts like the end of this game is.

Right. But he had played two really solid Bortle's games and three really solid quarters. And the thing that was fascinating to me about this game is they only started moving the ball when they let Blake Bortle's throw. Their only offensive touchdown drive literally didn't include a run. It was 11 straight passes. Leonard Fournett went 17 for 33 and was benched because he wasn't that effective for most of the fourth quarter in overtime because they preferred to have Yeldon and Ivory on the field. Melvin Gordon was essentially benched during the key parts of this game because Austin Echler was out playing him.

It was a very strange game, but I don't think the Jaguars have much of a future if their running game is stuck with Fournet. We know Fournette's a good player, so it's not really a concern. Well, it's a concern that they can't run the ball against the Chargers. that's a concern. That's not Fournett. We know Leonard Fournett's good. Yeah, I mean, it's been a bad eight days for him. You're not part of the game plan last week because of, you know,

klutzy off-field behavior and then you don't show up today. But Leonard Fournette... I'm not talking about him as a player. I'm talking about it's a team running attack, and they haven't been able to run the ball the last couple weeks the way that they would want it, whether it's Fournet or whoever. They literally set the franchise record in yards in a two-game stretch in the two games that Fournette was gone, which is weird.

I don't know. I don't think that's in their head. I think it's a coincidence. It's the opponents, but it's still weird. Yeah, I think defenses are probably selling out to stop the run. Absolutely. So Bortles is going to have to make them pay. They had 140 plus yards every week dating back to week two.

Well, today that was boosted. They had a fake punt got them seven points, which was 56 yards. Like the defense set up other points. My last thing is we've talked about their defense so much. Their defense did make the winning plays when it came down to it. A.J. Bouilley, Malik Jackson, with the force fumble of the interception. Like, that's what great defense is do. And they're fun to watch.

defense um did you guys see the going back to the steelers game the juju smith schuster levion bell touchdown celebration you remember that um physically and then mentally i get in their mind um get under their skin i talk i talk my talk he was talking he wasn't taking shots at wives or kids or anything like that but he went after the man's name and now they're doing touchdown celebrations where they're mocking the a j green uh choking thing and lev bell on A.J. Green said, when they said, what do you think A.J. will think about that celebration? I don't know. Guess we'll see. I mean, there. It's all Jalen Ramsey's fault. The Steelers and Bengals, anything they can,

any excuse they can find to take each other down. Those teams do not like that. The top headline on ESPN.com right now. AJ Green did fine today. Hold on. That rivalry is a history of one team taking the other down and the other one not responding. Yeah. The top headline on ESPN.com when we went up to tape this podcast tonight. Steelers mock green chokehold to celebrate TD. Jalen Ramsey took away this man's spirit something to watch he might be he might just walk away I mean he put up five for 115 in the touch and he's headed to the Hall of Fame so who really cares he's pretty quiet he had a big 70 yard touchdown I'm just saying let's move on no he's done after the show looking he'll never looking firing to Murray at the three

Murray dies touchdown Titans demarko Murray made the kick three touchdowns on the day for debarko And the Titans take the lead with 36 ticks to go. Mike Keith, WGFX with the call. The Titans continue to find ways to win. Marcus Mariotto orchestrated a 12-play, 73-yard drive that ended with a touchdown pass. Yes, to DeMarco Murray. That was the difference, a 24 to 20 win over the Bengals in Nashville.

Greg, for the second straight week, yeah boy, Mariotta let his team on an important touchdown drive. How did he become my boy? Oh, he's the number one quarterback in all my dreams. Well, this was, he was Wes's point. Yeah, it's getting confusing. He had James Winston over here. Well, you, because you've been out West.

Well, you said you were out on Murray. Maybe this was out of respect for you. He, like, pushed Mario to the top of his UB index. He became Greg. Because James Winston's been having a bad year, he's trying to steal your Marikota. He adopted my child. That's what this is. I judge what I see.

And what I see is a guy who, for the second straight week, got the ball in a situation where it's like, hey, you got to score a touchdown right now. He did it against the Ravens, and they did it in this Bengals game in a game that should never have been so close. They had the ball for more than 40 minutes. In a lot of ways, I think the Titans should feel good about this game. The running game looked a little better.

They scored a great five-minute touchdown drive when they absolutely needed to. I mean, Murray really did a nice job on that touchdown or else it would have been fourth and goal, and this game would have been going to overtime. But they blew a couple big plays where they dropped a touchdown. Another one was fumbled out of the end zone. Mariotta had one terrible interception, and it was way closer than it needed to be. I mean, I'm trying to detect at any point

that we've done this show, a team riding a four-game win streak that excites me less than the Titans. Yeah, that's fair. They've been lucky. This is the game that probably they've looked the best, and even that, they had too many self-inflicted wounds for much of it. It shouldn't have been nearly as close as it was. The most shocking fun fact of the day is Vante's perfect. got kicked out of the game today. It was the first ejection of his career. I would have probably bet my life savings, which isn't that much.

It's very meager. In fact, I don't have life savings. But if I did, I would be like, oh, he's been probably ejected 14 times. But honestly, easily three times, I would have said. No question three times. It doesn't count when he ejected himself and ran straight into the locker room

after he intercepted a pass. I mean, he's been suspended multiple times. In this case, he was fired up. It was a pretty touch call. Oh, he got screwed. And then it was even, And it was very touch on, you know, contacting the official and getting thrown out. That one you understand.

The penalty, less so. I mean, when you turn yourself into Rashid Wallace, you can't be surprised when they throw you out of the game. That's how it works. Let's move on. Stafford out of the gun. Blitzcom. Stafford's got to get rid of it. Throes deep left side got he brought out there.

He called it. Touchdown Detroit Lions. Oh, Stafford laid it up. Eric called it in. 29 yards and the lions are back on top. Dan Miller, WJR with the call. Matthew Stafford connected on that tie-breaking touchdown to Eric Ebron early in the fourth quarter. The lines survived to scare from the Browns, a 38 to 24 win at Ford Field.

Mark Sessler, Cleveland actually had a 24-17 lead in this game in the second half before the wheels came off. How did Detroit take control? Well, they scored the game's final 21 points. I mean, Cleveland's defense, which has had streaks, halves, quarters here and there where they looked more than competent. This time around, it's just that I think the floor fell out at the end. And Matthew Stafford, the guy that we saw on Monday Night Football, started to make those plays in the final 17, 18 minutes of this game. Cleveland, I thought they got the best performance they've had all season from Kaiser.

That's not saying much. He's had some disastrous starts. But they ran for over 200 yards and took advantage of Detroit's defense. Detroit, though, they're the kind of team that you can't count on them, even though they're playing a bad team to come in and wipe them out and they kind of got their act together late, and it was a scare as a good way to put it. That's what they do.

They play in the fourth quarter. Yeah? That's their move. They're going to use it. Kenny Gallaudet, by the way, had a, you have to go watch this catch he made along the sideline before he went about 50 yards total. It is one of the best catches I've seen in years,

which is not surprising from him. But Golden Tate, who was basically... Big to have him back. This is his first game back in about five games. It did help, although you wouldn't have seen... The passing game from what we saw against Green Bay to today it was not happening until it happened in spurts late. Now I feel bad because if you're going to say one of the best catches you've seen in years,

Maurice Harris had one of the most tremendous catches, maybe the catch of the season I thought in Washington today, off the practice squad made an OBJ type catch. West, what are you going to say? Oh, I've declared war on Lions fans. Oh, oh. They were already on my radar for the way in which they command respect for mediocrity. Oh, the outrage of not.

not giving my mediocre team enough credit. But when I call Golden Tate a poor man's Percy Harvin, apparently that just dismayed them to no end. Percy Harvin, who is on a totally different level, talent-wise, power, speed, agility than Golden Tate, not even in the same class of athlete. Percy Harvin, who was once traded for a first-round pick and two more picks, and the team had to make him the fifth highest-paid receiver in the NFL. give me a break that Golden Tate would ever be traded for that package.

This is impressive. Also, three years ago I sat in this podcast for hours and debated against Greg about how good Golden Tate was and that he was one of the most underrated players in the NFL. So Lions fans, quit being homers. This is impressive by Wes, and I'll tell you why. Wes is the one that made the Percy Harvin comparison. And then you walked right into his trap. And then you came to him and said, that's not fair.

Golden Tate's better, and then West comes on the air on Sunday and just buries you. I would question anyone's eye for football if you think Golden Tate is as talented as Percy Hart. I know that Wes is starting to feel good and he's starting to feel back. And the minute I really knew it is when I checked on Twitter Saturday night and I thought, what the hell is happening? There is 27 different things I am mentioned on in a debate between Wes and Lions fans about Percy Harvin. And that included him challenging people to go back and watch the tape, including Wes going back and actually watching the tape to confirm it,

and him burying all 27 of them. I watched, what has happened to my feed? I watched all eight of Percy Harvin's 2012 games the other night, and he was an absolute phenom. Don't give me this Golden Tate rubbish. Before we move on from this game, the lines are kind of a good example of how crazy deep the NFC is. 10 teams are at least 5 and 4 or better.

So if you're the Redskins, for instance, who lost this week to go 4 and 5, you're at number 11. I mean, you, that 4 and 5 in the NFC feels very different from the AFC. It's like the Lions and teams that are 5 and 4, they have a lot of work to do, even though they have a winning record. Coming up next with the Lions, by the way. They have an easy schedule, though.

They're 5 and second easiest in the league. At Chicago, home to Minnesota, at Baltimore. So got to win two of those. think. Let's move on. Shotgun formation. Fitzpatrick takes this out. Pressure coming. It's about quad ball. Touchdowns have a way.

Touchdown Charles Sims. Nobody picked him up. The blitzer hit Fitzpatrick, and he pulled the trigger and the Bucks find the promised land. Fire the cannons. I tear him. Gene Decker off. WXTB with the call.

Yes, Ryan Fitzpatrick threw that game icing touchdown pass to Charles Sims and limited his mistakes as the Bucks snapped a five-game losing streak with a 15-10 win over my Jets. Josh McCown and the New York offense listless from the first possession until garbage time, tallying less than 200 yards of total offense. I warned you subreddit. You got to give them the prices right, losing horn. You don't lock up the Jets.

And you certainly don't lock up the Jets on the road, especially when there's a lot of evidence out there to say, oh, the Jets are maybe okay. This is always, I don't care who you take. out of the line up. Wait, who locked up the Jets? The subreddit. Oh, my bad, my bad. I thought I did.

What are you doing over there? Greg's writing a tweet. I was like, I don't know what I was talking about. A part of the internet that you have never visited, apparently. No, I don't think it's good. I don't think it's good to have like an echo chamber. You don't want to read what people are saying about you. All right.

A fascinating look into Greg Sol there. Anyway, thank you to all the fans that support us on the subreddit. Yeah, so the Jets were always vulnerable in this game because if you've watched, them this season. This was always possible, but it's still a terrible loss that removes any hope I think they have. At four and six, they have to win a lot of games to close the season and dropping a game that was winnable on paper. It's just, there's no coming back. Well, that said, let's say you're saying they're forkable. Now they're forked. They had to win this game. I was saying they could get back to five and five and in the

AFC that you were just talking about. Anything could happen, but now it's over. I think I would I think the interesting part is reading Dan's recap of this game at what point in the season do they pull the plug on McCown and look at one of the younger guys and at that point I think the Jets are going to find out how bad those younger guys are yeah I think they're an interesting position because obviously four and six and they're probably heading towards 10 or 11 losses you would think especially if they put in these kids but and there's no sense putting in a keeping a 38-year-old in when you're not going anywhere. But I also, you don't get the feeling and following this team that they really think either of those guys is the future. Right. Yeah. Don't. That's disrespectful to the rest of the team. Just like if those guys aren't the guys and they're not going to be the future,

just try to win the games but counts. I know, yeah, it wasn't good today. And this shows that they're capable of anything in a negative sense because they played the most lifeless, worst defense, worst team in the league really over the last month and they didn't do anything. But unless this happens for a month straight, if you're getting the Josh McCown you saw for eight or nine weeks,

you got to keep them in. Well, you got to watch this game because this was kind of a it was a game of two journeyman quarterbacks, guys that have been on 100 teams. And McCown looked like the guy that's when he's been off in past years, how he looked. And I think it's worth checking out them

just because what else are you going to do? You got to play the rest of the schedule, but it doesn't mean that they need to do it immediately because one of these guys is opening the seat. One thing, there is literally no way, if you're Mike McCagnan, that you can sell this fan base on any level that Bryce Petty or Christian Hakenberg are your quarterback for next season.

Absolutely not. And we saw Hakenberg in a lifeless preseason where there's no pass rush, there's no scheming, and he was abysmal. I don't know what you're telling your teammates in your locker room. That's why I think you'd see Petty. I would think you'd see Petty. I mean, they're done with Petty, though.

Do you honestly think Petty has any chance to be the Jets long-term answer for a quarterback. Don't you think they know that? But maybe they see him as a backup. I just think like, I mean, McCown came into this game with a chance to become the highest completion percentage leader in Jets history.

He's had... I mean, this turns fast. I'm just saying Josh McCown has done more than anyone expected him to do this season. Five days ago, you were thinking I was a jerk for wanting to fork him. Now you want to see Bryce Petty. This isn't a victory. You have enough victory

parades. That's not a victory. I'm saying like it's four and six. He's saying that after they lost the bucks though, not when they were four and five. Your point does not make more sense before this game happened. Now it makes sense to me. I just wanted to see how Sunday played out and I kind of had suspicions this was going to happen and it did. I'm waiting for

an apology from the rest of this room. Why? Because all of the shots you took at me for my Josh McCown love for the land. Oh, that's a good point. He's made the leap. He's making the leap as we... All of the shots they were taken over and over again and my only point was he's a perfectly respectable placeholder at quarterback.

I thought you said he was one of the greatest of all time. That's how I kind of remember it. I said he outplayed Jay Cutler, which he did. I mean, I dealt with him as Cleveland's quarterback for two years. I feel like I was part, at least allowed myself to suffer. I wasn't just taking shots. All right, let's move on. On second and nine, a snap to Hunley, looking, scrambles to his right, throws the right side for Adams spinning grab. Tuts down. Devonte Adams, a spinning grab on the right corner of the end zone. Wayne Larivie, WTMJ with the call. Brett Hunley, threw for 200.

12 yards and a touchdown to Devante Adams as the Packers ended a three-game losing streak, a 23-16 win over the Chicago Bears who taught us a lesson in recency bias. Mark, Green Bay looked like a lost cause six days ago. What was different today? Well, I saw stepping stones. I saw steps from Brett Hunley. I feel like you saw a couple throws. He had a touchdown to Adams, which I think that was the call right there. It was. Well, it was. And they were immediately calling an Aaron Rogers like throw. All I'll say this. It was the best throw that Hunley's made all year. And all you want to see, it's like you can't ask for it the minute he's put on the field

out of nowhere having never really played in a real game situation. It's taken some weeks. This is a good defense you faced. And he made some throws. He kept the offense alive. And they lost Aaron Jones early in the game. So he didn't have, you know, his number one back out there supporting the way he did in past games where the running game was working.

Everything was working around Hunley except Hunley. This was a little bit of a growth move for him. I think it was a promising game. I don't know what it means for the Packers long term, but I mean, their season is over if they lose this one today. Well, they're the only team with a winning record that's been forked, so they've got that motivational gambit in their back pocket. If anyone would like to deliver that news to them,

because I am certain they don't know that. West took an L today as well. I am perfectly willing to take a loss in the lock game if it makes the Packers more watchable, and maybe for a few minutes shuts up the people who think it's a bright idea. The people who think that because we haven't seen Colin Kaepernick for a while, he's Johnny Unitas, and off of his couch will come in and do a better job than a guy that Mike McCarthy has been grooming and developing for three years.

How did we like Mitch Trubisky at all in this game? At least they let him throw 35 times. People are kind of waiting for that coming out of a by week that, you know, maybe. Well, they couldn't run the ball. I think when they couldn't run the ball. It wasn't, I don't think they went in hoping he'd throw the ball 35 times. But I think every week, Chubisky shows you a little bit about why he is someone that they trust to start week after week. He's beautiful rollout passer.

The most John Foxish moment, though, happened today when Benny Cunningham, beautiful pass from Chubisky runs, touchdown, long touchdown catch and run. And he's diving and he has the ball and it's about to touch the pylon. The ball comes a little loose, and Fox basically challenged it to confirm that it was a touchdown versus him being down earlier in the one-yard line, and the refs reversed it and say touchback Packers' ball. That Fox's fault, but I, you know. Well, it is his fault. The results end up being that it's probably the worst challenge in history just about.

He literally gave the ball to the other team when he had a first thing goal. I was rooting hard in this game quietly for West to be right because I'm, worried now that the Packers won that the Flexnola movement put in the Rams and Saints. How's that going, by the way? It's going great. We've had lots of Twitter. I appreciate everyone out there that's been tweeting about it. It's been getting a lot of tweets. Hashtag FlexNolize. I'm jumping on that, by the way. It's not too late to let the NFL know. Get the Packers out of prime time in week 12 and put one of the most entertaining, exciting NFL games in the year on

Sunday night football. Some people like Martin Luther can go out and help civil rights. is trying to flex a game into the schedule three or four weeks from now. And if there's one thing we learn when we appeal to the league office through this podcast, like sending us to London, for instance, they will act. And they'll say, wow, this show

has a great foothold in the UK. Let's get him there because we're smart business people. Four E.F. Hutton's right here. They just simply perk up the ears. We act off what they say. Okay. What's the opposite of cachet? That's what we have. All right, by the way, before we move on,

didn't you, Greg, lock up the Jets on Thursday? I locked up the Titans, the old Tennessee test. I don't know if I were past the smell test. What do you mean? You guys made fun of, you made fun of that you didn't think it was enough valor or whatever. You gave him some crap. They weren't, they were too small. Oh, you know what it was?

I threw it to Kissing Cousins and then Wes ruled that you had to the end of the show to decide. And then, yeah, and I never, I never really visited. So we know what really happened. What really happened? Oh, one for two. Pick the jets and a lock as well. You lock two games up. I said no, I'm going to stick with it.

All right, let's check in with the other. We'll let ATN lockup decide. You know, they'll figure out the standing. That seems like a neutral arbiter. Is that seen fair, Greg? That's fine. We're playing for last place. Greg is trying to tank this loss.

Give me the extra loss. There's no chance. I didn't actually pick the debts, but give it to me. There's no lockup draft, Greg. There's nothing to be gained from this. I kind of like it. Let's check in with the other downtrodden, New York team. Bethard under center.

Giants bring extra people. 49ers pick it up, get Bethard time. He takes the deep shot for Goodwin down the middle. Goodwin's got it at the 30. Goodman breaks away. And there's the home run. Touchdown 49ers. 83 yards.

A long time coming. Ted Robinson sounds like a guy has been waiting to call play like that. There was the San Francisco 49ers are off infamy watch. CJ Bethard threw two touchdown passes. He completed more than 75% of his passes. It's the 49ers cruised past 31-21 win at the big bell bottom. That ends a nine-game losing streak for the Niners and leaves the Browns as the NFL's lone winless team.

The Giants, meanwhile. they may be in the dark west i'm leaning on you you're a football historian uh they may be in the darkest places of franchise hell since maybe pre parcels yeah i'd say late 70s early 80s and they were in a very dark place then for extended time yeah i was thinking about it because i grew up in new york obviously and around all giants fans very few jets fans in the town where i grew up and so i've been very close to this team since the 80s and they've had bad seasons the giants but one of the reasons they're such a great organization is they can come out of those valleys and then they put together little runs of multiple years.

So you have to kind of go back to maybe post Parcells Ray Hanley into Dave Brown, but that was never like soda pressing as what's happening right here. So you might have to go back to Ray Perkins. And to a Giants fan base that was exceedingly loyal and it's basically similar to before the Steelers in the 70s became a powerhouse. What that city went through for decades and decades, It was that long in New York. I remember being old enough where friends' fathers, when they finally won the Super Bowl in 1986, were crying.

They had waited since they were kids, basically. Well, the difference, you know, with this team is people picking them to win the Super Bowl. That's what makes it. All right. No, I'm just saying it's especially ugly. I didn't even mean you at this point. Like so many people had that. But Mark did pick them.

Yeah, but you know what? Here's why I'm going to disagree, and I'll tell you one thing. Yes, you're suffering one of these sort of aberration. You're going to go two and 14. but it's the end of Eli Manning's career and if there is a quarterback that emerges they're going to have the first second or third

pick in the draft and the chance to go from Eli Manning to another potential franchise quarterback which is good timing the Manning brothers do this for the franchise maybe but they just I just mean in this season in this defense especially

giving up 474 yards to C.J. Bethard and Matt Brayda and Lewis Murphy who has just signed off the off the street, and someone named Kendrick Bourne, who is an undrafted player from American making plays on you. The numbers, 8.2 yards were to play, this is Kyle Shanahan's Falcons. When the Giants' defense steps on the field, pretty much the worst offense in the

league, the 49ers, or one of them at least, turns into the 2016 Falcons. Janoris Jenkins wasn't even trying to make tackles today, and when they tried to interview him after the game, A PR person literally was trying to keep him in the locker room so that he would answer questions, and he muscled past and got the PR person out of the way. Mike Floreo is reporting that Ben McAdoom might not even make it into next week. It is about as ugly as a get. That's bad.

That's bad by Jack Rabbit, Wes. I was wondering what Jack Rabbit did to have half the beat writers of the jam. They were fired up. And all of fantasy football Twitter demanding that he get yanked off the field for effort. There were two different plays, at least. that they highlighted in the highlight reels where, you know, the 49ers scored. And, you know, it didn't seem like Jenkins was going too far out of his way to tackle the... I mean, Bethard has been sacked 14 times in the three games coming into this.

He was getting beaten up to the point where you thought maybe you don't put Garapolo in there because he's going to suffer injury potentially, wasn't touched today. They gave up 51 points to the Rams last week, the Giants. This was a worst loss. I think it's going to be in everything-must-go situation with the Giants. I think Ben McAdoo is obviously gone. I think Jerry Reese could end up gone because as much credit as he got for that free agent hall last year, now with things, what's happening with Jack Rabbit and DRC, who I don't

think was the last year, hookup, pick up, but he was a big signing by Reese. I mean, these, I think they might just hit the button and it goes all the way to the top, perhaps trading up or being in the top three and getting a quarterback and just starting over. It could certainly happen. And if it does, it was a great, great run. And if they move on to D.I. They have some players. If this is how it ends, well,

a Giants Finch, as much as this sucks, I'm sure it does. I get it. I've been in the situation. You had a great run with Eli and Reese and Cofflin into McAdoo, but now it's the new journey. Yeah, I mean, give me a break with total darkness. It's a bad year.

They've won two Super Bowls. It's worth knowing that with that one and out last year was the only playoff game they've been in in the last six seasons. So it has been, not dark like this, but it hasn't had a lot of success since that Super Bowl. And that's on Reese, too. So you would think he's very vulnerable. What are the other thoughts?

Yeah, when you're building through free agency, you're building a roster, not a team. And I think this is the downside of that. All right. Let's move on. Oh, Sunday night. McManus tees up to kick off toward Lewis. His kicks sailing two yards into the end zone, left side. Lewis sprints pass to 10.

15. Lewis to the lane to the 30. Lewis cuts left half a kicker to the 45-50. Lewis in a foot race left sideline, pushed at the 30. Out running the block goes to the 10, sliding right to the end zone. Wire to wire. Dion Lewis. Touchdown Patriots.

Bob Sochi and the Zolak with the call WBZ. He's going by the Zolak at this point. Let's fly. The New England Patriots led by Dionne Lewis's 103-yard kickoff return. trounce the Denver Broncos on Sunday night football, 41 to 16 final. And this was a game, Greg Rosenthal, that you could have tried to get yourself,

talk yourself into a Broncos last stand. Ooh, Tom Brady has struggled against Denver Broncos at mile high. But you know what? This is a tale of two teams. One team in the Broncos and the Patriots that's getting better and better and one team in the Broncos that is just going down the toilet. Yeah, they don't look like a good. good, a well-coached team, the Broncos. I thought that if you're, if the Broncos are going to get

blown out in this game, the reason's going to be Brock Osweiler. And yet, Brock Osweiler, I can't believe it. I can't believe it that he really didn't have that much of a factor in this final score. The Broncos scored their offense on four of their first five possessions. What more do you want out of Brock Osweiler? And they were trailing by three plus scores at that time. The special teams alone for Denver made mistakes that led to 24 points, either directly or indirectly because the Patriot scored after it. My question would be this, that people looked at what happened when Denver ran into an Eagles buzz saw last week and gave up 51 points.

You're now given up 90 plus in two weeks. Are we allowed to be concerned about Denver's defense or are they still seen as some sort of Super Bowl level outfit? I don't see them that way. I mean, that would be really strange. It would be weird to see that. But even 12 hours ago, people were saying. because that was because they had played seven or eight seven really solid games i would say it's a very good

and the eagles game looked like an outlier and now they've got two games like this in a row i think they've earned some of that respect and benefited out but but when you give up 92 points over a two week stretch that there's definitely a reason to be skeptical and start looking for whether it runs deeper i know chris harris was talking about the absence of t j ward last week i don't know if there's still some hurt feelings there so who knows how deep that run. Another, Tom Brady, he gets kind of overlooked in these conversations, but 25 of 34, three more touchdowns, no picks, pass the rating of 125.4 before Brian Hoyer took some garbage snaps at the end of the game. He is right there at the top of

the MVP race. He's doing it, making it look easy. And I think, I think he might be beating father time. So that's good to. It seems to be gradual. It's a improvement. It's a gradual incline. You said it, Wes, you think he's throwing the ball better since the start of last season than he ever has in his career. I find it interesting that people attach themselves to ideas and then like their whole country gets behind it, like Carson Wentz is an MVP and Tom Brady's not. Brady has played circles around Wentz this year. I love what Wentz has done. He's been spectacular. But Brady's been more consistent and a better passer. Doesn't that happen to the New England though? It's like every year the coach of the year goes to someone who, what a flowery nice story. He went from 5 and 11 to 9 and 6. you're the coach of the year. Belichick has been the coach of the year every year.

Tom Brady's the MVP and Aaron Rogers every year. It's the same thing we talk about year in a year out of this podcast. Everybody's sick of it. Everyone gets used to with the throne of ease and all that. But I understand that Brady should not be overlooked by any stretch. And the numbers are there. Look, let's be honest. The Patriots are once again on their way to another 13 or, you know, 12 or 13 wins.

And he's the main reason why. Their offense is getting better. throughout the season, I believe. I think Brandon Cooks has added an element that they didn't have before. Martellis Bennett ends up playing in this game, had a 27-yard catch. I'm sure that annoyed Packers fans out there, but I think he adds an important element to their offense because they're the ultimate matchup team.

Their whole point is to get their running backs and now a few of their tight ends matched up in advantageous situations on the outside. I kind of don't know why other teams don't do that more. I guess they don't have enough pass catching backs. Like, that is their offense right now, and Brady is the best at choosing who has the right matchup. And I think adding Bennett really adds a lot to that. Greg, the Patriots were one in three in the preseason.

I know that that concerned you. Are you over that concern now with them surging here? What about tonight? What concern did I ever say about that? What about tonight when Tommy Boy had a three and out in the first drive? I was a joke. Well, this game, you know, I told you, Deborah ripe for the pick. And then the next play, of course, a muff punt.

the game was over at that point. They have been extremely lucky, I believe, this season with plays like that. I think that helps explain why they're 13th in football outsiders in terms of efficiency. They've had a lot of things go their way in terms of turnovers or tonight. It was special teams, and they made their breaks there. But there's a lot of games where you watched it, and the two teams didn't seem that uneven when you look at yards or yards per play, and then you look at the scoreboard, and it's a blowout, and sometimes I think that's coaching.

I mean, Hugh Jackson and the Browns have outgained their opponents. in five of nine games this year and they haven't won a game. I couldn't be any happier with, you know, what I've experienced as a friend, Greg. Another bad game on Sunday night. Al Chris and Michelle, the best on TV, perhaps, but the worst luck this season.

And how bad was this game? In the second half, as this thing just evolved into a laffer, we just started going around the room, Wes, Greg and myself, guessing which foods Mark still eats now that he's basically a vegan. And that was the most, entertaining aspect

in the second half today. Well, because you only root for two teams. You said this, you volunteered this downstairs. You only have two teams that you have rooting interest for. The Jets and whoever plays the Patriots. You just didn't like this result. If it was... Everyone else in this room thrilled

by the exciting level of this game? Here's the thing. And this is where it gets to me a little bit is that we were saying this was how this game was going to go all week week long. And then it's all this like false hoopla about how it's going to be a great game and stuff. And in the end, it's a wrong.

With you leading the narrative of this podcast every single time, Greg, you have to just accept that in a bad AFC, this team is going to, it is a stunner if they don't make the Super Bowl. It is a stunner. I don't want to hear any other straw men in farm fields all over the place. Why is it ridiculous? Why is it ridiculous to say the Patriots and Super Bowl team? Mark and I are both packing up our bags as we finish this podcast.

Remember when the stick of us mad. You're just mad that they're winning. I'm not mad. I just want to acknowledge, let's acknowledge that they're the, clear favorites and it would be a What? Five straight games they've now not allowed more than 17 points. Remember when the defense was the big

Oh, what a narrative that was. Oh, the Patriots don't, oh, they're a mess this year. They might not even make the playoff. Their course of the clear favorites. What are you even doing over there? All right. I guess I was saying favorites versus the field. I'd take the field. In the AFC? Yeah, I would take the field.

Oh, come on. The field was burnt down about four weeks ago. There's where the straw man are. There's nothing growing in the ASE field is barren. The field is where the straw men are. That's a good one. You're the Patriots up in their castle looking down on this field that was scorched by invaders.

Well, if you wanted to go at another narrative that's died, is their tackle and offensive line play was terrible. Oh, major problem. And now Adrian Waddle comes in there and Nate sold her in their Stone and Von Miller. They had a nice night. Oh, how would they ever overcome it? There you go. So the

Patriots cruising to another Super Bowl. We'll be back on Tuesday when we will recap. We will recap the Monday night matchup between Mark? The Dolphins and the Carolina Panthers. I thought I had you there for a second. You did for a second. And we'll have some fun on Tuesday with Connie Fox

and another week of action. So thank you to everyone for tuning in. Connie Fox who refused to fork the Broncos. And I want to say before we go, I want to say before we go, because it's stuck in my head. One of our loyal listeners of 49ers fans after I tweeted something derisive about the giant, at the end of that game said, please, I know you're going to spend your three or four minutes

killing the Giants in this game, but will you please say something nice about our team in this game? This is all we have. And I've been there. I was there as a Patriots fan on a one-and-fifteen season or on a bad season. And you really do enjoy those winning days. So, you know, let's give up some kudos. What are you going to say nice about him? I'm going to say C.J. Beth, he's played. You love their backup quarterback, Jimmy Garapolo? He showed a lot of toughness. I think you saw it. some of the great coaching that you'll see in the future in Kyle Shanahan. C.J. Bethard, I think, showed a lot of toughness the last few weeks

in terms of the hits he digging. And he shows up and he got rewarded for it today. And Marquis Goodwin, on what was a tragic day for him, he lost his son at 4 in the morning during childbirth, and he scores an 83-yard touchdown, and his teammates mobbed him, and it was a special moment there. That was a pretty special moment for the 49ers, and let them have their day. Good job, Greg. Very well done, as always. You're a total pro.

All right. So, that's it. Catch a Tuesday. Another week in the books, Mark. The season's basically over. Dan Hans is signing off from quiet stars. The mailman, the old boss and Lindsay Poulton behind the glass. Till Tuesday.

Hey, everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the time. tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sunday. Don't miss it.

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