NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Week 11 TNF Recap: Myles Garrett ejected in Browns win over Steelers

Episode Date: November 15, 2019

Chris Wesseling and Gregg Rosenthal recap the Browns' 21-7 win over the Steelers and what the ugly fight that ended the game will mean for the Browns moving forward.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Mayfield's going to take it. And no signal. Now there is. Touchdown, Cleveland. Wide open is Landry for the touchdown. Second and goal. Here's Samuel's out of the backfield for the touchdown.

And finally, the Steelers are able to break through. Get it into the end zone and four defensive penalties. against the Browns, help get the ball down the field on third and goal. Mayfield, into the end zone and caught for the touchdown Carlson. How about his first catch of the year? That was a beauty. Here's a flag as, whoa, hello, whoa. Mason Rudolph got into it.

what in the world believe miles Garrett there's swinging a helmet yeah there'll be some objections that was well after the play well he tackled Rudolph didn't like the way that he was tackled oh gosh oh man oh my goodness rips the helmet off Rudolph's head and then eventually swings it and hits him in the head. And then Ogon Jobi comes up and hits Rudolph from behind. Beyond words, Joe. Oh, gosh, that's one of the worst things I've ever seen on a professional sports field. That was Joe Buck and Troy Aikman describing a fight that is going to be remembered a lot longer

than the Cleveland Brown's 21 to 7 victory on Thursday night football over the Pittsburgh Steelers. I am Greg Rosenthal alongside Chris Wesseling in your beautiful house, Chris. Unfortunately, Keisha's got to go to bed. She's got an early shift to get to. And, you know, we've got some wild things to talk about because this game was secondary and we'll get to the game in a bit. It was largely forgettable, big win for the Browns. But the last 10 seconds in which Miles Garrett threw Mason Rudolph to the ground

and then wound up taking his helmet off and hitting Mason Rudolph in the head with the helmet is obviously something we've never seen in NFL history. You know, we're trying to think of similar circumstances. Albert Hainsworth stomping and kicking Andre Garard, the Cowboys Center in 2006 comes to mind. He was suspended five games for that. But it was about as ugly as it gets.

and the immediate thought is, you know, can't Brown's fans just enjoy anything? And then what is the NFL going to do with Miles Garrett? Yeah, I think we both mentioned the Albert Hainsworth thing to each other. And then I think to me, it also reminded me a little bit of that Westivus playoff game debacle with the Bengals and Steelers just losing control at the end of the game. In this case, it's really Marquis Pouncey will be suspended, but it's really hard to blame the Steelers for much of this. They lost two guys, two receivers to helmet to helmet hits from an undisciplined Browns team.

And then Miles Garrett just lost control. Just he went outside of his body, it seemed like. He hit Rudolph late on the play, which I don't think should be lost in what happens because immediately fans say, hey, you know, Rudolph was grabbing for his helmet. He was trying to take his off as if he was starting. First of all, it doesn't really matter if that was. was true, and he started anyways. But Garrett knew what he was doing. It's eight seconds left in the game. Rudolph clearly let go of the pass, and Garrett was getting in an extra shot. And

it's funny because Garrett is such a smart guy. He writes the poetry. He's such a smart player the way he plays. But he has a reputation of getting in those little extra shots. Like he has a little of a reputation among players or broadcaster just like he pushes the envelope and you like that sometimes as a player but i don't know what or as a fan but i don't know what it was in this case that he he felt like he had to get that extra shot and then what happened and he felt like he had to you know take rudolph's helmet and i don't think there's anything you can really do to explain it it's just the question of like whether we see him again this year and everyone immediately after the game is saying we can't see him again this year if we're trying to protect players and that's probably

true. There's six games left in the year. I usually just go off precedent. There's really no precedent for this. To me, this is a lot worse than what Haynesworth did, and Haynesworth got five games. Garrett obviously has no previous problem with the league, but it certainly wouldn't be surprising if that's it

for Miles Garrett this year. Yeah, it's hard to reconcile that reputation he has for being such an intelligent player and a poetic sort of personality with what we saw in the field, and it reminded me of a passage I've said before from bringing the heat where Andre Waters,

the Eagle Safety in the early 1990s, he had transformed, he had found a way to transform himself into an alter ego where he got himself so worked up. And let me read this passage if you'll indulge me for a minute. Wes has got things underlined. I mean, it was underlying long before tonight. He just had it ready in case this ever happened. When Andre suited up to play, he was no longer Andre Waters, the loving Christian gentleman who greeted callers on his answering machine with gospel music in a sweetly intoned God bless you. He was someone else, his overman, someone known to him and his teammates as the Draymaster.

And he talks about making sure he doesn't lose himself in that dark fantasy when he goes there during a game. And this is the last passage I'll say on it, just one sentence. To Andre, the division between real self and Draymaster is so complete, he startled when real people in the real world confused the on-field antics with him. And I'm not trying to excuse what Miles Garrett did. I'm just trying to shed some light

on how a person off the field can be one way and on the field just lose himself in the moment like that. It was almost like he just lost total control of everything and was enraged and in a fury. You hear players talk about that all the time. I mean, some players do it in kind of a funny way where, who was it that says he's Batman?

Right. On the field. But you hear it say it all the time that it's almost like a flipping switch. And I've also talked to players who say you have to be a little crazy to play football. Absolutely. Most of the positions. Like, you have to have something in you that you can turn on and get in touch with the most, you know, rugged, primal part of yourself to, or else you're not going to survive. And Garrett, it's funny, was a beast tonight.

Garrett was awesome. He dominated Villanueva, who's a pretty solid left tackle for the Steelers. I mean, he clowned him all night. The Brown's defensive line largely because of Garrett dominated this game. As bad as Mason Rudolph was, a lot of it was because he was under pressure and because the Steelers' offensive line was losing so much. That's not going to make the punishment for Garrett any less. And I think what the NFL will look at is what could have happened, which is just obvious.

You know, he could have caused serious damage. Who knows? He could have killed him. I mean, you're swinging a helmet at someone's unprotected head. It could have had such a worse outcome. And I think the NFL should treat it as if you have that outcome because it's really the action. It's not whether he was able to connect or not that you're going to be punishing. You don't ever see teammates after a game fail to stick up for their guy.

And in this situation, Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry were on the set with Colleen Wolf and the gang and they were presented with the video for the first time and they just said over and over again, it's ugly, it's ugly. And Baker Mayfield when he was asked about it by Aaron Andrews was kind of similar. There's no way you can defend your teammate there. You just have to say this is part of our undisciplined mess. we can't do that we have to be better than that and we it's just totally unacceptable it was yeah it was alarming uh not alarming but uh stark yeah jarring to see baker

say that and clearly disappointed not just in the actions in the moment and he's friends with mason rudolph so you know that's that's all part of it but disappointing because he knows he's lost garret i mean they sounded like they lost the game and i meant to start the podcast with that quote from Jarvis Landry that he said to Colleen Wolfe, our friend, where he said, you know, the ending of this game just takes the spirit out of it. Like Joe Thomas was talking about the game in this win,

and Landry watching the video said the ending in this game takes that joy away from it. Not only is it going to be the conversation, but you're losing one of your best players, and it ties into what's been a running theme with this Freddie Kitchen team. You mentioned it. Demarius Randall got kicked out of this game too

for a head hunting hit. Juju Smith-Schuster left earlier in the game to a hit that wasn't even called, that should have been called. On that exact same play, Mason Rudolph, was hit in the head for a pretty routine roughing the passer. But it just goes to this Brown's team where at one point tonight they had as many penalty yards

as they had yards allowed. I mean, they were dominating this game. There was no reason for the Steelers to be in this game, you know, late into the fourth quarter. And it does get to some of not just the inconsistencies on offense, but just the general sloppiness and lack of discipline they've had. And then it kind of comes out in the worst way you could imagine. Yeah, and I really have a hard time pinning Miles Garrett's actions on Freddie coaches. Right. Now, I agree with that.

I agree with that. But it does speak to this season-long thing. theme of the Browns, when you think of the 2019 Browns, you're going to think of the complete and utter lack of discipline. Although, I don't know. You know, you have a team-wide, you know, culture or a way of doing things of like, that maybe getting those extra hits in is somehow a little acceptable. I mean, Miles Garrett's had plenty of roughing the passer penalty. This is not the first one. And I don't know if it's tolerated or what. It's more of the initial action of him throwing Rudolph to the ground that that's...

The GM tolerates. Right. And the players he chooses, he is a lot more liberal about, you know, overlooking things than other GMs are. So, uh, Maurice Pouncey after the game, Marcus Pounce said after the game. We'll see how serious the league is about protecting players. You could see in his eyes, uh, he was furious and he called for a year-long suspension, uh, of Miles Garrett.

I think Pouncey will certainly be suspended too. He went full Joe Pesci on, Miles Garrett. Right. Right. because I get defending your quarterback, but ultimately you're going to get suspended too for kicking and punching. And then Ogun Joby was kind of the most ridiculous thing

of the whole thing. He walks up to Rudolph after it's already calming down as if he just wants to be part of it. And he's not going to try to take some big shot. He just decides to push Rudolph to the ground just to say like, hey, you're a little, you know what. And he got kicked out of the game. I mean, he'll be suspended probably because of that,

just because it was so silly and unnecessary. And this is a Brown's team that we will transition to talking about that has no one on their schedule. It's just a row of tomato can after tomato can into week 16. And not that they played lights out tonight, but they have enough talent that they can overcome the sloppiness. And sometimes NFL seasons are about the schedule. I feel like that it's almost.

has been looking for the stretch all season. You know, Mark's been on it. He thought they were going to start two and five. Didn't they start two and five? I think they basically did. And then he thought maybe they make a run. And I think they could. And it's rare that it's that predictable.

But now that we're 10 games in, it is this predictable. And sometimes NFL seasons really are about the schedule. Like the Patriots won 11 games with Matt Castle because of the schedule largely. I mean, they took advantage of good coaching and everything. Let's look at the rest of the Brown schedule for a second. Just so we get kind of an idea of how these. suspensions and everything else could affect them. They play the Dolphins next week in Cleveland.

Then they go back to Pittsburgh in a game that's going to have, you know, all sorts of attention. Oh, wow. Then they host the Bengals. Then they're at the Cardinals. So the toughest game they have in the next four weeks is going against a Pittsburgh team that's led by one of the worst quarterbacks in the league, who just lost their number one receiver, Smith-Schuster. We'll see when he comes back.

That just lost James Connor again after about a quarter or two. And I think is in the mix, if not the obvious answer, for the number 32 offense in the league. I mean, the Steelers dream, I think, of making this run. I know their schedules either. I think got a reality check tonight because they've had bad luck with the injuries, but they're also one of the worst three or four offenses in the league. They've been that every week all season, and they're not making any run. Sorry, Pittsburgh.

Well, we heard the stat during the game that they had scored six offensive touchdowns during their four-game winning streak. That's almost hard to believe. I was like, are you going to say that right? I honestly thought they were talking about the whole year. I really did. The offense has been that bad, and one of my favorite stats is drive success rate. They are in the bottom four and drive success rate, and we'll fall behind the dolphins after this week.

And maybe it's time we get to some Mason Rudolph talk. I mean, you've been waiting for this. First of all, I do kind of want to point out and just paint a picture for the listeners. When this all started happening, you know, there's only eight seconds left we were about to start. taping and it happens Wes immediately jumps up to the library as if he was like Batman going to the Batcave

and was going to get his weapons and his little Batmobile out but instead Wes's superhero is like a football library where he knew the exact page on the exact book that was already outlined that he wanted to go find and that's why Chris Wesley makes the

big bucks. Well to be fully honest it took about seven minutes to find the passage but it was underline. Just play. Oh, thanks, Greg. Just take, okay, let's get into the Rudolph, I guess, for a second. And we're going to talk also about the Browns.

We're going to take our time because I do think there's some positive things about Baker Mayfield and what happened with the Browns tonight. But Wes is clearly chomping at the bit because if you were a Mason Rudolph doubter, this was like you're coming out party. It was like SeaWorld, like this is what I've been watching. Well, it's Dan, Dan is right, and Dave Damasek is right. It's sort of unfair to expect great things out of Mason Rudolph with the decks stacked against him to the degree it has been.

His receivers dropping balls, his running back out, his receivers got injured during the game. It wasn't the best game from their offensive line. But I think that Dan and I have been seeing this from way different angles. And my point is that the results are kind of besides the. the point. It's that the game is too fast for Mason, Rudolph, and I don't even think it's an inexperienced thing. It's a playing style and skill set thing. For whatever reason, his throwing motion frequently puts his release at the arm of a defender or the back of a blocker because of spatial awareness and slow delivery. It's uncanny how often he's delivering the

ball as he's stepping into or away from pressure. That's what I've been saying all along. I think he needs a complete makeover in the way he plays the position in order to get the results that we would want from him. That's been my point all along, and I think we saw that tonight. He just can't win playing this style of quarterback. I mean, he's not it right now. And everything around him, yeah, that is a contributing factor. But I think you can't isolate some quarterback skills in play. Beyond that, he's throwing up hope balls.

It's just taking too long. You're right. I mean, Aikman said it. basically just said he's heavy-footed and he just kind of stands there doesn't navigate the pocket well it's the it's the mike glennon thing i mean it's the it's the zach metenberger the tom savage right it's the line between is he courageous and can take a hit or is he just inviting pressure and getting hit because that you know because he's not moving because you just have to be able to move and the steelers offense you do feel for him and you feel for randy fickner and i mean they're playing

with all their third stringers and the line isn't even which is supposed to be good doesn't even playing that well either so you feel for them there's no like obvious answers i mean they are so bad on third and short yardage they said they were third three for 12 on on fourth and one or third and one this year and they go for it and they turn it into you know three for 13 and there was another third and two later in the game and rudolph's throwing the ball because jalen samuels has no chance to pick the you know first down up either and that That's why I just can't buy, I know you're forcing a ton of turnovers and I love this defense and you'll probably win some more games, but it's hard to imagine them getting to 10.

And I think you'll probably need 10. It's not often that you'll see about a 30 play disparity between pass attempts and rush attempts where there's 30 more pass attempts and you average more net yards per carry than net yards per pass attempt. I have no idea the play. I mean, the play calling on short-roated situations was. boggling my mind. But I don't know what else you're going to do. As you said, their best play for the last five or six weeks is underthrowing a deep ball and getting the PI, which is an

underrated play in general. I agree. More quarterback should do it more often. Do you have any anger towards Miles Garrett for kind of putting, you know, a bit of a somber, serious tone on this recap when really you want to be like dancing in the aisles on, you know, Mason Rudolph's great. because you have a black heart. That is not the way I would say it. I would say that it would be a more lively, jovial conversation about perhaps both of these quarterbacks if it wasn't overshadowed by what happened late in the game. Well, let's at least give Baker some due because I know you could watch this game and say,

look, they had 12 drives. They only scored two touchdowns. It was a ton of three and outs. You know, they got the third touchdown on the best play Mayfield made all night. where he, you know, buys time in the pocket and kind of finishes the game off with kind of a classic Bakeriff play. And if you've been watching, I think he makes three of those plays every week. Those plays have still existed. It's all the other plays that have been the problem.

I actually think he's played very composed and smart the last two weeks. Not spectacular, but he's eliminated those bad plays. I think he's making good decisions. He just, and he said it to, you know, the broadcast crew too. I think he's feeling a little more calm in the offense. And crazily enough, I think the biggest problem he has right now is Odo Beckham. And I know Beckham has made a big play in this game and you've got a touchdown. You're going to get some big plays.

But every time people say, oh, that's a terrible Baker-Mayfield throw, it's that Odo Beckham. And they're not on the same page. And this has been happening since week one, week two. And you had another play tonight where Odo Beckham got his hands on the ball and didn't come down with that. Beckham and Mayfield are in a funk. and Colleen asked, you know, O'Dell about it, and he was about as honest as you would expect saying it's a growing process. We're trying to get there and we're not there.

And Mayfield's not too efficient thrown to Beckham, but he's been pretty efficient throwing to everyone else, especially Cream Hunt the last couple games. Yeah, I look at Cream Hunt, and this is going to sound like hyperbole, but he's sort of the Brown's offense's answer to what Minka Fitzpatrick gives the Steelers, this missing piece of the puzzle who is so, important for their quarterback and plays a position passing down back that the Browns have needed and sort of doubles as a receiver, that's been a huge plus for their offense. He's playing a major

role as a chain mover for them. And I love that addition for them. And for Baker, he needs that. It's funny because, you know, when they signed Cream Hunt, everyone, you know, was upset about it and killed them and and I get that and then yet you don't you once he comes on the field and he starts balling out and he's looked awesome these last two weeks and he was awesome for a big chunk of his time in Kansas City no one's I haven't seen any any criticism of John Dorsey or any peeps about that so that's sort of it's this whole dichotomy of watching football of what you're going to accept as a fan on the field it's like we love Miles Garrett everyone hates what happened tonight there's always this strange post and pull and you know what Hunt did

but the reality is he looks great as a receiver. I mean, the third down catch he made to keep the first drive going that set up the Beckham touchdown was outrageous. And then the third down catch he made in the second drive to keep that drive going and they didn't capitalize and it was just as good. And he kickstarted their game-winning drive. I don't think it's a stretch to say.

He is already one of their most valuable players and their offense is going to need to be better. Mayfield said it. they're going to need to be better, especially if Garrett and even Ogun Jobi's out. Like, their offense is going to need to be legit good. It's just kind of been getting better, but it's still looking pretty average. It's going to need to be legit good, and they need to start maximizing, because they're still not nearly maximizing the talent that they got. The pieces are there, and you win some and you lose some, and this analysis, you know, I can gloat a little bit on Mason Rudolph, I guess, but I also thought that...

I mean, it's unsavory at this point. It almost feels like spiking, you know, the... Well, I mean, I'm just playing along to your narrative here, but I also expected Baker Mayfield and O'Dell Beckham to light up the skies this year, and I was dead wrong about that to the point where, like you said, this is a problem with an offense that has the pieces to be doing much better. And I think you wanted to check in on what I thought of where I stand on Baker Mayfield now. Oh, that's right. See, what, you look at you. I mean, I'm just failing as a host, and you're like trying to drag me along with, you know, you're like, uh, Hansis would have remembered to, uh, you know, present. this question we talked about before and by the way if you're listening to this podcast Dan Hanses came in and did a bang-up job oh yeah as the guest host of game debut which airs on NFL network on Saturday Greg was raving about Dan's before I just thought it's a tough

spot to go in it's like Mason Rudolph coming in you know I hadn't ever seen the playbook before he's got you know who is that Steelers receiver out there catching passes tonight Tevin Tevin Jones right I'm Tevin Jones you know fumbling fumbling catches, and they knocked it out. So, you know, you guys could DVR that. It's airing on NFL Network a couple times Saturday. Anyways, he would have remembered to ask you the question, Chris Wessling, about Baker Mayfield and his play right now in this season,

because I really just wanted to frame it that you were the guy last year that said he's already a top 10 quarterback. And we all were right there with you and I believed in it. But you said he's already there. There's no question. I don't need to see any more. That's who he is. And I wanted to kind of come back because I think we've been fair with Baker,

like letting him go through some young mistakes. But 10 games in, what are you thinking about that assessment? Well, I think for me, the anticipation is the fun of following football, finding out guys who are going to be good. And I readily admit that I get carried away with that sometimes, and this is a good lesson. I believe in Baker Mayfield. I think he obviously can make all the throws on the field

that you want him to make. He's good in the pocket when he's playing well and seeing the field well. I think you have to question how well he's seeing the field and how well he's working with his play caller this year. But I firmly believe in him. And I also think there is something to, when all these old crusty guys around the league are making fun of how many commercials he's in, I think there's probably work going around the league that he didn't work hard enough this offseason.

And I think that a young player who's obviously talented, and in my mind he has superstar ability, there's nothing wrong with having a setback and coming back stronger and forcing yourself to make changes we see it in great athletes all the time you have to overcome adversity and in this situation maybe it's healthy for him to have a year where he's got to go back and change a few things and look at himself and say what what do i need to do to keep up with lamar jackson it's crazy that lamar right now is is the class of that quarterback class for this season And for the record, I would not take Lamar Jackson long term over Baker Mayfield. I know that sounds wild, but I don't think so.

I think a lot of people, I disagree. I would take Lamar. But I think a lot of people in the NFL would probably still agree with you. Seeing the field is it. And sometimes I think it's, you know, you don't. And yet we saw him see the field last year. You don't want to put it on his height sometimes. But I have sometimes, it's just been like a couple plays.

First of all, he's getting the ball batted down all the time. Yep. Like all the time. he leads the league in that. And there's been a couple times this year where I just wondered if on a particular play that was the factor. But it seems more like his mind is just not seeing things clearly. The difference in the last two weeks, I guess, compared to everything else, is that

he hasn't been bailing out of the pocket. He's been moving well in the pocket and making people miss and then making a play inside or outside of the pocket. And that's part of what made him special last year. So I love watching that from him the last couple weeks. And I think even without Miles Garrett, assuming he's gone for a while, I think Baker can play better, especially with a nice set-up matchups. I know that you've got to face a Steelers defense again,

but I think he can continue to play better and better and carry this team over some bad teams and have this team playing meaningful football when they play Week 16 against the Ravens. I do believe that. It's wild how quickly these things can swing. And we pointed out earlier than year with Kirk Cousins that, you know, he is looked upon as a laughing stock

to open up the season, and then all of a sudden three weeks later, everyone's pointing out he's leading the league and passer rating and the Vikings are rolling Baker Mayfield can turn this narrative around in one month he can the Browns cannot because this fight is one of the craziest things we've ever seen I mean it is it is not it's not hyperbole to say the NFL hasn't seen anything quite like this in terms of an on-field fight and so the aftermath is going to take days and we've already heard from Garrett would, depending on who you want to listen to, was contrite or was not

contrite enough. He seemed a little dazed, which makes sense because I don't think anyone there kind of is going to realize the enormity of everything that happened, especially how it's going to affect his livelihood for the rest of this season. So look, we're going to be talking about this for a while, and this is going to be on Freddie Ketchins' ledger, whether he likes it or not, and how he handles the aftermath and how this entire team handles the aftermath, this is going to be telling and is going to be really important to Kitchens' future.

But it's better to do that with a win, right? Absolutely. You know, it's better to do that with a little hope for the playoffs. Sorry, Mark, that you didn't get to enjoy your victory. I know. That's like we immediately went there watching the game. When this started happening, we were like, oh, my God. And the immediate thought is like, why can't Mark? Why can't the Browns just have a nice thing?

Just have one nice win. You could tell, I mean, even Jarvis and Odell, you could, at one point they were trying to get the crowd in. And you could just feel like the air had been sucked out of the room. But they'll be back at work. And, you know, the nice thing is they get a nice long week off and then they play the weekend off. And then they play the Dolphins. So the Browns are back in our lives in a big way. I'm sure we'll have some updates, maybe even a suspension.

to talk about on Sunday. Until then, I think we should get going. I mean, we're breaking records here for these mini-pods for Chris Wessling and Keisha, who's probably not asleep because, you know, I speak loud indoors, but man, Chris really speaks loud indoors. So I don't feel nearly as bad. So let's let Keisha sleep. And let's get to Sunday.

We will talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is an I-heart podcast.