NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Wentz trade & Big Ben drama with Dameshek

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

A room filled with some heroes- Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler and Gregg Rosenthal are joined by Dave Dameshek to celebrate and remember Chris Wesseling's birthday. NFL.com is highlighting some of Chris's best work and the guys talk about what a writer he was. (19:10) The heroes discuss Carson Wentz traded to the Colts (20:41) and what will happen with Big Ben (32:05). We also remember legendary Coach Marty Schottenheimer (59:29). Happy Birthday, Gregg, too!Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. The Around the NFL podcast. That don't confront me. Welcome to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis. I come to you from a room filled, a virtual room filled with some heroes.

Mark Sessler and the birthday boy, Greg Rosenthal. How about that, Gregie? A little deeper in your 40s. How about that? Jackie Robinson year, 42. Big one. Big one indeed. Of course, also, you know, would have been our friend Chris Wesleyan's birthday today.

it would have been 47 for him. And that phrase we heard off the top, that don't confront me. That is like my, I have heard that in my head like many times per day. Before West Bastian, since, it's a great philosophy. Does that really have anything to do with me? No, I'm not going to really worry about it. You know, he embraced that.

I also think it's pretty amazing that the two scientists were born on the same date. I mean, there's something going on there from like, horoscope angle you too like to get into it. And there's a reason that I couldn't be farther from being a scientist based on my birthday. And in honor of Wes, like when Greg makes, and this is for Mark, you and I as we go proceed forward into the great unknown, when Greg does say ridiculous things like Mason Rudolph had the best quarterback game for the Steelers in 2020, like that's when Wes would have pushed back and told Greg that he's crazy. To honor West, we got to make sure we push back on Greg. So that doesn't go unchecked.

Well, you're right. And I think I was just left in a stunned silence when I heard that Mason Rudolph business. I don't know if that's like trying to own February with like a hot take or something. If you looked at the PFF grades even, they would they would pretty much be with me that it was right there. We do have a guest today that could say if that was a terrible take. I'm just saying I feel like people didn't watch that Mason Rudolph game. He played well for that one game. I'm not saying he's a great quarterback. Okay. Now, yes. Greg teased it. it is Greg's birthday.

It would have been Wes's birthday. It still is Wes's birthday. And why not as a gift to both Wes, wherever he is right now, and to the listeners for the first time back on our airwaves since he sadly left us? It is Dave Damasek joining me around the NFL podcast. And, you know, Wes is way into this because one of Wes's favorite NFL media people of all time. Absolutely the great legendary. Dave Damshack. What's up, Shaq? Heroes, Rick, what a pleasure. Let's start with a little pushback like you just mentioned there. Did I hear that

right? Greg Rosenthal just likened himself to Jackie Robinson. I'm basically him. Don't you think of your year, don't you think of your year, you know, your birthday year in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, mind of like athletic numbers like larry bird that was a nice year 33 you got to that that's that's who i'm going to try to model myself after this year jackie robinson i if nothing else for real nice recovery the gift the gift the gift of following sports obsessively uh one of the fringe benefits is is that it allows you to remember every phone number i do i can remember any phone number if you give it to me just once because i'll just be like clay matthews junior yes and the ice man, George Gervin.

Yeah, that's the last four digits. Okay, yeah, that's how I can piece together all things. Yes, happy birthday to the boss and to Wes, of course. Yes, and you know, Shaq, of course. He is now the host of the minus three podcast that covers Northeast Sports and also the Extra Points podcast, which everybody knows with Cousin Sal, and Dave's of Thunder, which is another deep hiatus. I mean, enough.

At some point, either, you know, do the show or don't do the show, Dave, but we all love that as well. What's new, Sheck? And the reason why reached out to you is because, yes, Dave, you know, Dave's a funny guy. We all, oh, Dave's funny. He's always got the quips. But Sheck also, sneaky, insightful fella. And I really thought that, you know, with Sheck, this is actually two weeks to the day now that we lost West.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the man, Chris Wesleyan, Sheck. Well, you know, first of all. of all, I really do think, and I understand that, you know, the tragedy, there's no workaround of how horrible this is for Keisha and for, and for Link and for you guys and everybody who cared about Wes, obviously. But I really do choose, you know, I grew up with Mo Damashek, the nurse, and, you know, who'd been around a fair amount of stuff. And my old man as well. I really did take note early in life of, like, my mother sort of chose to celebrate in these awful moments. And I really do, you know, I'm really happy for Wes that he got to have the last decade or thereabouts that he had with you guys.

And so, you know, I really do say, be proud Greg Rosenthal for convincing him to do do what he's. he kind of lived by, which was to, was to, you know, I, it sounds glib or it sounds like a joke, but for real, you convinced him to leave his safe space and move out here. And, you know, Wes was, for all the lovely and accurate things that have been said about him in the last few days here, I mean, you know, he was idiosyncratic enough that he really lamented when he got out here. Like, I don't know if I belong out here kind of vibe and this is, these weird. I, I mean, miss the island you know the islands where it's out those are real people these people are off ponies everybody out here in la is a big pony and all of that and and look where it landed

for all of you guys and you're to be you know i i hope you can relish amidst all this uh you know this obvious awfulness of of you know what you guys did and and how the quality of his life the last eight years i suspect is uh is right up there for him with all the years that he had. And as much as he loves his family and his brothers and, you know, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, he didn't love Georgia and everything else. I think that, you know, it was apparent to anybody who interacted with him over the last few years that, that, that, that he somehow ironically, after all this, you know, he didn't, he didn't love Los Angeles. And he didn't love the vibe. And he felt like an outsider. And I, I, I really do

feel like he was as at home and found his real home with you guys as much as anything and individually with you. With all respect to Keisha, his first soulmate in Los Angeles was Mark Sessler. And I really, you know, I went there just to be an onlooker after you guys won your softball crown, whichever one it was. I just went there to bask in the reflected glory. And I mean, the seminal image for me is unironically two grown men after winning a dumb softball thing with their arms around each other. I don't think I took that photograph, but I was standing right behind those two when that photo was taken. And it was lovely and indicative of the late nights you had. And I'm waxing, obviously, and interrupt me at any point, please.

But, you know, I just, he was really oddly, or he stood out. in the 21st century to me, he was anomalous, and it was like, oh, what he is is a retro kind of human being. He is like something from a black and white Western movie or something. Like, he was like Gary Cooper in his straightforward purpose. I mean, and if his purpose was having fun at 2.30 in the morning with Sessler and bending the elbow, it meant something. And I really mean that. There was no, there was no sort of throwaway moment with West. Everything. even fun, meant something to him. And I know because I interacted with him and, you know,

I maintained a text chain with him this last, you know, handful of months and everything. And almost without fail, he would mention the sense of purpose that you guys gave him and the fun that it meant for him amidst all this not, the god-awful stuff at the hospital and everything else. The fact that he could interact with you and, have a smile as a result of it. I really do. It's terrible. It's heartbreaking. Those are the obvious things. But right now, I think you guys should, if it makes sense to be proud of what you guys

forged together and, you know, to be happy that you directly, Rick included, delivered, you know, some of the best moments of Westling's life. And look where it led. I mean, ultimately, he was Is this a message for other people to take chances and all that sort of thing? I mean, he moved from his safe space. He lived on an island. He loved it. He moved out here to rugged, you know, weird L.A. And felt like a foreigner.

And look where it wound up. Eight years later, you know, I wish he had another five decades, but, you know, to enjoy it. But the last five or six were, you know, more living than a lot of people get to do. been rewriting history to now say, oh, Wes loved L.A. Once he got here, you know, he loved it. Even as late as last year, he would say that L.A. is weird. He didn't necessarily love it. But there is that element of it. And, Shaq, I know you obviously are not a native to Southern California, although you've been out here a long time now. None of us are. I mean, Greg, Mark, myself, all come from the Northeast. Ricky from the Northeast. West, Cincinnati, Tybee,

here, Colleen from Philadelphia and Gonzo from Philadelphia. I mean, Henry from England, for Christ's sake. And we all came here without family and we built out our own West Coast, Southern California family here. And that's why, you know, it wasn't, West wasn't just losing a colleague or even a friend. It felt like we lost a family member because we really did because that's what we did in coming together. And I'm just to your mother, mother, that's a great way to look at it, that we celebrate that we had that time together. She just was not, I do remember her, you know, you look around at awful, you know, funerals and everything and people crying and I'd look across and my mother's out over there

cracking wise with people, you know, like, you know, that with, you know, to try and celebrate the person a little bit. And, you know, I heard you guys the other last week, I guess, your first show back. And yeah, I mean, there was something, too, that with Wes, that there were a sense of authority and interacting with him. And you guys talk about the validation you get from him agreeing with your football opinions. That was a real weird thing. It was real and true for me as well.

And the other thing with him was, as far as that goes, making him laugh was, I mean, you know, for someone like me, when Wes laughed, that was one of the more delightful. Making all human beings are not equal. Making all human beings laugh is not equal. And getting a laugh from him you knew was sincere. He was not placating you with his life. You know, he's a fascinating man, you know, and, you know, his football love and but his love of books. And it's great to talk about music with.

and no matter how much we disagreed on it, it was always a compelling back and forth. And like I say, you had this Gary Cooper quality that was funny that would give way once under the cloak a night and a couple of drinks in that he became like a 15-year-old who'd had his first beer. You know, he became giddy. And that was also a delightful way to interact with West.

And those two sides of him. But yeah, I mean, you know, Listen, talking about football or otherwise with him, bumping him into, bumping into him in the hallway, but it was always good. But one thing that really came through was that the comfort he had with you guys, you guys were his. Like you said, you know, people say stuff like that, but you were really his brothers and his family and shout out to the first sports couple of Philadelphia for, you know, helping bruce those skids as well for for Wes. for our pal, the Pie Queen, Deeker, and everybody else. It really transcended. You know, it doesn't happen all the time, but that was a neat little group that was put

together over the last, you know, five to ten years. And, you know, it was fun certainly to be a part of that. Not to say that that doesn't carry forward, but obviously, West definitely, the point is is that Wes really embrace that as much as anybody. Because, like Hansu says, we're all from somewhere else. But for some reason, it came across that West was like, what kind of place is this? What are we doing out here?

Isn't the way people do things? These people are way crazy. Let's get back to the real kind of vibe. And he transformed into there was no better home for Chris Wesleying anywhere on the face of the earth than sitting with you guys chopping it up and laughing, whether it was being recorded into a micro, or in the wee hours of the a.m. It was always compelling and fun and nice to be a part of or be around. I would say also, Sheck, that I love the way that you noted about making him laugh. We've talked

about that a little bit. And one of the first places I thought that he started to feel at home was in our newsroom, which was very communal back in the 2013, 2014 area. And you were someone, just because I would, I sat three or four feet away from him for a billion days. And when you would come in, and anyone that has been in our newsroom knows that with Dave Damashek comes in, I mean, things change. It's not a quick visit. It's, yeah, you have to turn the room changes. There is one thing that I think when you, I thought that you really won Wes over with your daring do, because we were also at times, depending on what executives were in there, it was a very, it could be suddenly very serious. But, you know, if you've watched NFL network, they crack into the moment where like a news reader is, you know, telling you.

about breaking news. And in the background, you can see all of us jabroney's typing away on our keyboards and stuff. And Chek would do this thing where he'd get about 20, 30 yards away from the newsreader, but he'd be in the background. You could see him. And he'd do that old trick where you pretend to be walking downstairs by bending your legs. And literally on NFL network, there is a grown man walking downstairs that don't exist. And Wes could not contain himself at that time. I remember that moment, and he also, I know you do his impression, but he loved when you do impressions of Greg and Dan. I'm excluding myself because I'm pure and you can't do one of these two. He liked the Tybee one too. I mean, that shows, I think it was well said, Schek,

with the brotherhood almost that he was used to having all these brothers around him. That was what was like, that was his comfort zone. And so he sort of created that and was part of that with us. But yeah, yeah, your Tybee impression, it was a fine line. But you're lucky that he loved it, like, because you just cracked him up so much. He's like, I don't sound like that. I'd be on the right side of that line. And then my impression was actually an impression of Sheck and doing the impression of West. So it was essentially just a watered down version of the same thing.

I also like, I also like, since you brought it up, Mark, not to get too off track, but when Dave Woods dropped by the newsroom, we had a, there was a deeply unpleasant shadowy league figure. that was in the newsroom for a period of time, that could not stand when Dave came by. And they were diametric opposites as human beings. You need to be more specific, although I think I know. There's so many. This LF, you know who it is, Greg.

This SLF would come out and he would see Dave, and he would just, you could see the eye roll, like almost coming out of his head when Shaq was around. And that's, and it felt good because. Well, I think also he knew that not a shred of business would be conducted when Shaq was, making the rounds. And I think even maybe sometimes Greg would be like, guys, get back to work. We have like 14 poster right. It's like, but check is here. What will the world do

without updated pro football information? Well, listen, we're all cheating in life here, friend. Why are you throwing a wet blanket on the fact that everybody gathered in that space is cheating life by definition we are getting paid to talk about football and on some level and and that some ne'er do well couldn't get that straight in his head is not my problem and I was not going to bend the knee to that nonsense he still thought he was in some like newsroom in Dallas in November 1963 no dude this is football we're just updating the jaguars committing to teal as their home jerseys we're not going to have We're not doing anything important.

And to put a button on it, Sheck, before we move on, because we've got to talk about a big trade evolving another star quarterback in the NFL. We've got to talk about what's going on with Sheck Steelers. We're going to get to that as well. But, Wes, you mentioned Gary Cooper twice. And as I've asked, by way of Tony Soprano, Mark,

many times, whatever happened to Gary Cooper, turns out he was right next to us the whole time. The whole time. All right. Let's get to it. Let's do some football talk. We got check here. It is Wes's birthday.

And by the way, great job by the NFL media digital team. Patrick Crawley, Sarah Parsons, John Marvel, the whole gang, Ali Bunpuri. They are rolling out in honor of Wes's 47th birthday, or what would have been West's 47th birthday. They're bringing up on the homepage at NFL.com all of his best work. and because Wes was such a gifted storyteller and podcaster, but I mean, Evan Silva, who we all love and respect from Rodo World

and now had established the run, he said on his show recently that he thought that Wes was maybe the best sports writer in the country. That's the type of talent, Wes, was. So if you go to NFL.com at any point this weekend, and it should be up by the time you get to this, you could read his Houston Oilers feature, Love You Blue, Ohio River Offense,

about the Cincinnati Bengals and Steve Walsh attack. His QB index pieces, which were incredibly insightful, and many times went beyond just basic football. Pieces about his Patriots coverage during those Super Bowl years. He always had such a great eye for that. His making the leap pieces, the series that we did for many years, talking about players on the rise. You might not be surprised to learn that Wes got that right a lot.

He wrote a really compelling piece about Steve Smith, deserving a spot in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, just a ton of great stuff, and they're going to populate some podcast stuff down the line as well. But if you want to learn more about Chris Wessling, the writer, NFL.com's got you covered. I was telling you guys real quick, too, that, like, if you're an obsessive,

go find a random Wes newser on like an arrest or a suspension. I would take his news items and print them out and go read them to figure out what the FI was doing on that front, because he was such a decisive author when he would take on any subject. It's a, I love what NFL.com is done here. All right. Let's get to the big story. The Indianapolis Colts.

I mean, we did the QB Carousel game a couple of weeks ago, not for nothing. Old Zucer had this one, right? But it wasn't necessarily a shot in the dark. It felt like it always made sense. The Indianapolis Colts have acquired Carson Wentz from the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for a 2021, 2021 third round pick, and conditional 2022 second round pick. That's important here.

That conditional second rounder becomes a first rounder if Wenz plays three quarters of the cult snaps or 70% and the team makes the playoffs. So there's a couple things there, but there's a good chance or a decent chance, I should say, that this does become a first rounder. But on the surface, Greg Rosenthal, the Colts just acquired a guy that not so long ago

was viewed as a superstar-level talent, a quarterback. And they, to me, upgrade from an aging Phil Rivers. What do you think about this deal? I think Carson Wentz has a lot to prove that he could even be as good as Philip Rivers in 2020. I think they're taking a risk. It's not a huge price. They're paying, but it's something. I'm shocked that the Eagles got that much at this point. I mean, Carson Wentz wasn't just bad last year. He was like one of the two or three worst quarterbacks in the league. There's not a lot of precedent for anyone playing that poorly during his prime. You can make a lot of excuses for it and being like a really big difference making quarterback. Then you look at the rest of his career. I would say

maybe one of those years has he been significantly, you know, better than average. And so I think, okay, you're giving up a second. You know this guy. It could upgrade to a first. You're giving up a third round pick it's worth a shot because you know him and they believe in him and it's a great situation for him but i don't know like it to me to expect him to be better than average i think is probably expecting too much i mean i would say this though i feel like he is going to a roster that in a couple of ways reminds me of the eagle's super bowl roster when he did play so well and I'm with you, Greg. I mean, to watch what happened to Carson Wentz last season, it was, you know, visually a four-month car crash. And he lost all his confidence. He seemed broken to me

from the neck up. And I don't think he and Doug Peterson, that relationship clearly was running out of time. I love him being paired back with Frank Reich again just in terms of the fit of where he could have gone. Someone that knows them, someone that got the best out of him, probably was the better head coach hidden at a coordinator level there. I think it's a good environment and they've got a great offensive line. So you can see, I say the ceiling would be a comeback player of the year. The floor is, this is an unfixable quarterback, but I don't believe he's unfixable. I think if this works, Chris Bowerd will look very, very smart. From the Eagles side, what are we doing here? This team, to me, feels like a year and a half ago, everyone's, you know, song and dance about their analytics driven front office and all this other business.

I mean, you look what they invested to get Carson Wentz, what they ultimately paid him, the incredible amount of dead money that they're taking on to let him go, which is the new trend in the NFL. Let's get rid of these guys and pay for it after. I think a lot has to be pointed at Howie Roseman in the Eagles. Howie Roseman, do you still have the Carson Wentz poster in your office, or have you taken that down? aren't you surprised though they got that like no one else made an offer like i think both things can be true the eagles signing went to that contract and the ram signing goff to that contract were catastrophic mistakes in a very similar way that i think will affect how teams approach signing guys early because both of those guys would have ended their rookie contract with the option

year this year they didn't have to pay any of it you know with all that said He was, it was a tire fire. If there wasn't Frank Reich out there, I don't think they would have gotten anyone because his contract is just as onerous as Goffs. They were about to be guaranteed, like he had an option in his contract where they were about to be guaranteed to pay him 70 over three and 55 over two, all this stuff. So I think they're probably in this point mildly relieved that they got rid of him at this price, but it's still kind of a catastrophe what happened over the last few years.

and they're going to have to come up with so many solutions on a aging roster so quickly or Howie Roseman could lose his job because he's not the only one that's going to be gone. Alshan Jeffrey's definitely gone. Malik Jackson's definitely gone. Deshawn Jackson is definitely gone. There's more I'm forgetting about. They are going to be spinning that wheel and they have a lot to fix. And Ballard puts himself on the line a little bit too.

You know, maybe it's a one-year thing with Wentz if it doesn't work out. but they need to find a left tackle. They need to make it work with Wentz because I think the bar of Philip Rivers is sneaky high. Like Carson Wentz in 2019, the last time we thought he was okay, he wasn't as good as Philip Rivers in 2020. He was pretty bad then, too. That's a two-year sample size.

So let me just say, Greg, I think you're overvaluing as I always feel like you did, Philip Rivers and undervaluing Carson Wentz here. I think... I'm saying look at his 2019 season on balance. Not just the last four games, the whole season. Maybe it's something you've got to go back and take another look. I thought he was excellent in 2019, especially down the stretch, taking a really beat up Eagles team to the playoffs, 27 touchdown, seven picks,

4,000 yards, pass a rating over 100. I thought he was a franchise quarterback in 2019. 2017 was an MVP year before he blew out his knee. And I understand you can't take out the health issues with him. Hey, by the way, Tom Brady was going to win the MVP that year. I keep hearing everyone said Carson Wentz was the MVP. Tom Brady was winning that MVP this year. I just keep hearing that.

But he was playing at that level. It was one too, but I keep hearing. Everyone say he was the MVP. He was on pace for 4,500 yards, 45 touchdowns. He led the league in touchdown percentage. He led the league in QBR that season. He was an absolute MVP candidate. But the injuries are a real thing, obviously, here to keep in mind.

And also how bad last year was. But I think it's well worth a gamble check to bring him in because the Colts are a win-now team. And if Frank Reich, if Frank Reich's there, I don't like the trade. With Frank Reich there, I think it's well worth a gamble, and I think it could pay off big. Yeah, I mean, if you do the math on that and what changed for Carson Wentz, the thing that stands out more than anything else is the departure of Frank Reich, and it became clear that Peterson wasn't the magic factor on that coaching staff. It was Reich.

So I guess that makes sense. And like the outsized egos of starting NFL QBs, Offensive coordinators and head coaches also have an ego that tells him, I can fix this guy. I know he looked bad, but I'm the one who can fix him. I guess we'll have to wait and see how that goes. I do think in the meantime that I mentioned the swagger that just about all these guys have, I think it's very weird. In the last 24 hours or so, I've already seen a couple of sort of boastful, weirdly sort of

proud of themselves, uh, media members from Philadelphia. I don't get the math on what Philadelphia is a sports town thinks they're doing that they're so proud of their ability to chase away some high-end athletes. Like, hey, Philly ain't for everybody. This is a tough town. Toughest sports town. The fan base will not let you go like, well, great. Well, I mean, say you're going to scare away some people who might otherwise thrive in your sports town. Good for you. Well done. You've you've done it again. in Philadelphia? These guys get it.

Yeah, I don't get the anti-Wenz thing in Philadelphia. He helped you win your freaking first Super Bowl ever. He was massive in winning your Super Bowl. And there's this weird thing that I totally agree with it. Connie Fox wanted to throw him into the ocean. Right. It's very straight. I get the last few years.

But if someone had told you like this guy's going to set you up to win a Super Bowl that your backup ends up finishing up, you would think you'd be grateful to him for the rest of your life. Give me a break. I just think that obviously the Colts are as well. win now is just about any roster you look at, or I don't know if win now applies, but what is the best roster if you remove the quarterback from the equation? The Colts are near or at the top of that list. So it makes sense that you want a guy who can make him go because, you know, I really think

they had a Super Bowl run in them. And if not for a play or two, you know, they might have at least gotten to Kansas City. But in our, you know, I talk about QB saturate. This is not 2011 anymore. There are more viable starting quarterbacks out there than there are starting gigs. Is Carson Wentz definitely the best guy that they could get to fill that slot in the real world? Not pie in the sky fantastical. Like, they should just get to Sean Watson. Why don't they do that?

Because Texans aren't going to trade him to you in the short term. Is Carson once the best guy they could have gotten? I'm not sure. But maybe as I look around, is Russell Wilson really good? going to get dealt the way? I don't know. Otherwise, draft. I don't know. To that point, Shaq, and the Colts, they kind of put it out there that they were looking for a veteran. They're out of this business now. But why don't we spin the QB carousel here and check in on these other quarterbacks? Now the market is not settled, but we have some

movement here. Stafford, Gough, Wentz. A report, Jimmy G. There's another option the Colts had there. A lot of smoke about the end of the Niners and Jimmy G. era. He has 51 million due over the final two years of his contract. Not guarantee, though. So maybe the Patriots make a play. Sam Darnold, another veteran that hypothetically the cults could have been interested in report out there today that he could be available for a second round pick. We've been hearing that forever. Deshaun Watson, we're at a stalemate there, obviously, right now. We don't know what's going on. Keep an eye on the Raiders with Mariotta and Derek Carr. One of those guys could and probably will be moved.

And then, of course, Big Ben. Dave Damasek. I love the buzz that now this, just this week is the first time I've started to hear. Like, could Rathsburg or play for another team? I, you know, if you drop them onto the Broncos, would that be a crazy? Is that really that crazy that he would make them go? I don't know. Yeah, I think that with Rathsburger, I feel like I didn't get into doing this so that we could talk about math.

I don't understand macroeconomics and I don't care about math as a fundamental course in life. But as far as I understand it, and scientists, please step in here, Rosenthal and let me know where I'm wrong here. The cap is not going to be. I mean, the hit is never, and it never was going to be $41 million, as I've said all along. They'll presumably drop him all the way down to $19 million, which is as low as they can get it. So $19 million is the hit. Ergo, the aforementioned fantastical solutions at quarterback aren't real. Deshaun Watson's not landing in Pittsburgh.

Given that it's a $19 million cap hit, and they're not going to, none of the high-end QBs that are going to go near the top of the first are going to be available. in reality. Why don't you just roll with Rothesberger anyway? It's, it's time to reset in Pittsburgh. To what? There's not, there isn't, who are you putting in there? Someone must start a quarterback. And what do you get out of Mason Rudolph that you don't get out of Ben Rathesberger in 2021 other than can Mason Rudolph hack it is the long-term solution? Spoiler alert, he can't. However, Rosenbell's right. He did play really well. And it was kind of eye-opening for those of us who were who were hypothesizing that rothusberger roundabout the Washington game as they were undefeated kind of realized like I can't keep taking these shots

this offensive line is junk for the next five weeks we're safely into the playoffs we're going to win the division now after we beat the Ravens I think there was a calculation and I kind of still stand by this that he made a calculation I'm getting the ball out on my hands no matter what and I don't care and then it started to slip away from them and then He flipped the switch in the second half against the Colts and turned it on. And all of a sudden, there he was. Pump faking, throwing 45-yard passes on a rope and so on. And then the Browns game.

And then the Mason-Rudov game happened. And I thought, what in hell? This is a little, this is weird that Mason-Rudoff is having more pushing it than Rothesberger was. And then the Cleveland game, inexplicable. That first quarter was an absolute atrocity. it seemed explicable to me. I don't think we've had a chance to, to, the tables have turned. We didn't really, he might have ended Big Ben's Steelers career.

My thing is just, do the Steelers want him? I get what everything is saying. I get the sense now. I get the sense they know. Yeah, so their general manager, Kevin Colbert, said this week, you know, is very ambivalent about it. He's on the roster right now. The owner, Rooney said earlier in the offseason, essentially he's not coming back

unless he takes a pay cut. Ben says publicly, I'll play for whatever you want. Now, it's very possible, especially knowing Ben Rathesberger, that he's saying that. And his agent is not just lying down and being like that behind the scenes. And they're like, if you play any hard ball with us, we're just going to cut you. Like, that's the thing. They are ready to cut him. They have already made the decision he's gone if he doesn't want to play ball. They might have already made the decision he's gone anyways. And I think to answer your question, Dave, of like, why do that? And yeah, you could reduce the cap. Well, you'd be pushing some of that cap pain into the future years. The Patriots decided to take all their medicine in one year. That's what the

Steelers would do. This year would kind of make sense because right now they're like 30 million over the cap. And their left tackle is a free agent. Marcus Bounty, their center is a free agent. They might want to consider cutting their potential future Hall of Fame guard David DeCastro is coming off a terrible year. They have a lot of problems. They might cut, you know, one of their starting cornerbacks. There's a lot of issues in Pittsburgh, and they might just be like, let's just take our medicine now, see what happens?

But my pushback on that is, what does that get you? Any of these big free agent decisions? Nothing now. Nothing now. But it's basically just saying that we don't believe, it's saying we don't believe in Ben Rathesburg anymore. Right, but you can kick it down the road, but for relative nickels and dimes to kick small portions of that contract into 2020 and

2023, as the cap goes up, it will be a marginal hit against them. But again, the crazy kind of thing is like, yeah, but if they just blow up, if they just stink it up, this is what people keep missing. They cannot be the 2020 Jaguars. They cannot do what the Jets or anyone else is done in tank. Because Cam Hayward and T.J. Watt and Minka Fitz,

Patrick are not going to allow that to happen. They went in 2019, eight and eight with Duck Hodges. You think they're going to, what do you think they're going to go two and 14? There is no world in which that happens. So this nonsense about, well, if they really stink in 2021, then they'll get a high pick. And by the way, I am big, like I say, on QB saturation, thanks to the pipeline that exists from college football every springtime. 2022, not as juicy as the last three or four QB classes have been.

So this thing of like, yeah, just blow it this year so that you get, who, Spencer Rapper? What are we talking about? Isn't checked? Isn't the move, the most straightforward move for the Steelers to make, a team that was 11 and O before the wheels came off and has all this talent that you've referenced that should be ready to go if they can get solid QB play to go with everything else, that you would bring back Big Ben and then just upgrade over Mason Rudolph as somebody that you can turn to, whether it's through the draft or one of these veterans that are, you know, at a discount.

And then you give yourself a better safety net. And maybe it turns out, like, you're right. Maybe with the Big Ben situation last year, he changed his mindset to disastrous results. So you give another, give him one more chance to play the guitar. And if he doesn't, you're not turning to Mason Rudolph, just hoping and praying that he's fine, the light's going to finally go on. Well, here's what I'll say about, I think that the move is, I mean, Joe Douglas a couple weeks ago said something about wanting a first for Sam Darnold.

I won a lot of things too. But I think a second, you know, especially if you can move it past 2021 into future years, like what the Eagles just got away with with the Colts. If you can get, you know, a second or a third in 2021, Joe Douglas wants draft picks. It's not like the jets are ready to roll and take over the AFC East. They need players. And if they're going to go at number two, if Zach Wilson or Justin Fields, they're going to purge Sam Darnold, I would think,

in trade for a draft pick. That's the answer to me. Get Sam Darnold. But I think also Rosenthal, I think you're right. I don't think they necessarily want. I don't think they have bright-eyed thoughts about how great Rothensberg. One last time he's going to turn back into 2008, Rathesburg. I don't think they think that.

But I think they're thinking we might have our best option. may end up being, given the $19 million that we have to pay him, and it prevents us from going after some other guys as a result. But if we bring, I could see the ego, if we've seen these franchise QBs, not like other guys being brought in to replace him and all that. I could see there being some attempt to thread the needle on the Steelers part to say, like, yeah, we won't with you back, Rothersberger,

but rather than say, I'll take the cap, but you can't bring somebody in to replace me. Like you're not going to turn around and then trade to get so. And I could see that being part of the equation right now. And also more practically, I don't know, maybe the agent is saying like, yeah, we'll give you a discount. We're not dropping it all the way to $19 million. And maybe Colbert's like, oh, well, we took your guy his word that he's going to go all the way down. He doesn't care about it.

If he's actually making us, if he's actually denting our ability to re-sign, let's say, Mike Hilton or Cam Sutton or one of these D.B. that they otherwise could make a run at. I could see them balking at that. Like, hey, we're playing hardball, seven. You want to come back? Great. We understand the situation. It won last year, but it's $19 million.

You're not getting anything more out of us. This is timely, actually. I am checking out Twitter as we discussed this situation. And this tweet from Will Welch, who is the GQ editor-in-chief. What? Fresh quotes from Ben Rathesberger in a tell-all sit-down with G- Cleveland broke me. They reduced me to tears. To the naked eye, I was no more than a toddler. I still have nightmares about what the Browns accomplished that night, added the Steelers QB.

I've had this recurring dream that when Pittsburgh dumps me, they spend the next 25 years looking for a functional signal caller. Terrible towers will be used to wipe the tear-stained faces of Pittsburgh area children, children who will never learn to read because they live in Pittsburgh, said Ben, in this dream, Steelers fans, would be thrilled to get one-third the quality of a broken down Mark Malone, circa 1988, but they won't come close, employing Hammond Eggers such as Wally Jingles, Spurgeon Win 2.0, and Jessica Maxwell from Human Resources, end of tweet. So that's something is coming on the GQ front. Look at a just shattering the glass ceiling in the end of it. Wow. I mean, that's a pretty good

get by GQ there. Right. It's not a total shock. Like, what about Ben Rathesberger would tell you that his divorce from the Steelers? And really, the whole end of the rest of his career isn't going to be incredibly ugly, you know, with like backbiting and lying and all sorts of stuff. I frankly, I'm looking forward to it. Ed Bouchette's going to have some juicy quotes. Well, I'll tell you, that's for sure. And by the way, I don't know if you can see it for anyone looking right now, in honor of most of the nation dealing with snow. It's snowing, apparently, in my home here. I don't know, my crummy computer is making it do that.

Yeah, the Rathesberger, the last few days here, or the last, it's also, he wants to come back and be a part of a winner. And it's funny that they keep saying, like, you understand, we're not going to be good if you come back. They're really trying to will him to know. Like, it's the guy you don't want. coming over like we're not doing anything we're you know we're not we're not going to have any fun so bays will not even come over kind of thing so they're trying to convince him not to show

right because why why would they have i guess i think they're having a crisis of confidence of like why do we think we're going to be better next year period that we we finish the season so poorly and you mentioned the whole like yeah you can take his salary cap down but you can also like cutting him saves 20 million against the cap there's all this like confusion of there's like there's dead money and that's true with Carson Wentz but it didn't talk about the 20 million I get it dead money yeah but it ultimately like trading Carson Wentz didn't cost the Eagles anything this year and you got rid of them and in cutting Ben Rathesberger would save 20 million of cap space when they need it and so bringing him back even if you lowered it all down like it gets complicated and your

other players might have to go and they're just like why do we think that team is gonna be good we kind of don't so uh or better like we we need we need someone we need a quarterback that can be a huge difference maker and he's probably not that guy so we should start looking for that guy i i hear all of that i don't but none of those individual decisions um with other free agents uh are impacted by that assuming he does like i say goes all right right to zero or to to the to the um slimest of of cap hits possible the other thing I will say is because, you know, with Will Walsh, they're doing great work at GQ with getting in the years of some of these QBs. I got in the year of one David Carr, who was the first

overall draft pick in 2002 and happens to be related to Derrick Carr. David Carr assured me, one, Wentz will work out with Reich. That marriage is perfect. Two, he said that Derrick car is definitely staying in Vegas. That is 100 percent that Gruden is definitely rolling with him in 2021 per David Carr. It sounds like the Colts tried to get him. I found that very interesting. A Colts reporter said they called about Carr and got a pretty firm note. So that's a good report.

It's interesting. He also said that last year during the season, they took four calls asking after Derek Carr and were turned down, three of them from the same organization. And I cannot figure out who it is. David Carr would not spell. He said, we'll figure out. Who would he not take the call from?

I don't know. I said Bill Belichick, and that leads me to this. I could see a calling Bill. No. Who was it then? I can't figure out who he's. Maybe the cold. In the middle of the 2020 season, check? Yes, during the season, calling Derek Carr and getting turned down for it. And I think you know who John Gruden has bad blood with that he wouldn't take the call from. But I said, would Derek go to New England? And I think that you want to have your fun with the demise of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I've had my fun. And I'll continue to with you. your patriots. I can't believe everybody, I can't believe you've genuflected for 20 years to a fraud, Rosenthal. Bill Belichick is all about the QB this whole time. All this insane dark ages kind of witchcrafted. This is how we do things. The only way you can win is to abide by my work. Do your, the soulless, do your job. I'm a grown man, let alone. I'm a high-end supreme athlete and you're reducing to me do your job just do exactly it would be two dimensional and do that and in exchange you'll get a Lombardi now that it doesn't come along with a Lombardi

who has any value is willing to go up into that mess I think Matthew Stafford has set the tone and I think it's I really do think this year this 21 21 season for the Patriots is huge for Bill Belichick he knows it he cares about his place and history and all of a sudden if he doesn't land in somebody he better figure out how to get i don't know mac jill i mean how often do you hear like anyone talk about vince lombardi basically pissing down his leg for four years in washington no one cares it's over it's not apples to greg because and we brought this up with chris russo and he was on our show right for the super bowl now that brady has won that title with the bucks

unassailable the legacy there's no there's no question this guy if there ever was I mean, the fact that he changed teams and won another title, unbelievable, the goat. Belichick's still an all-time, brilliant mind, arguably the best head coach ever. But when you talk about these two, you can find proof of that on videotape, look around. These two players, the player and coach tied forever together. Belichick almost, he has to build another big-time team before he goes, or that will be attached to the discussion of Bill Belichick. And I know you don't want to hear that, Greg, because you've had so much. I'm just saying I don't think he could piss down his leg and all this stuff like Levinz Lombardi did.

No, Brady makes it different because it wasn't like Bart Starr went somewhere else and did something or however it played out with Lombardi. It's just different. But you literally don't even know how it played out. Like he embarrassed himself and they were terrible. And literally it's never been brought up just about ever. It doesn't matter. I just don't think that bothers it. But you understand the difference between the Lombardi situation and the Bill Belichick situation.

with Tom Brady involved here. Why? Because Bill Belichick was tied at the hit with Brady. Brady goes somewhere new, wins another title. Vince LaBardi got old, went to Washington. It was at the end of the line. It was just a different setup, that's all. But also a totally different era.

But Greg, to your point, you said the Patriots took their medicine in one year. So I agree with Sheck that next year, if Belichick goes, you know, a soft 5 and 11 and refuses to get a real quarterback this off season thinking he's going to. punk us twice. Well, I mean, I do think that in terms of a talking heads, his cue reading takes a huge hit. Do I think that he's actually Joe Philbin in disguise? Utter nonsense. He's a great coach. He's not just Tom Brady. What side are the fence are you on with that, Mark? Is it a talking head situation? Or do you actually think that it would hurt his legacy if he went out that way? If Belichick's next, let's say he has four more years and they're all losing seasons,

it is an unavoidable point of discussion and it does affect everything that we would think about Bill Belichick. But what are I stopping the malarkey is the idea that, oh, actually, this is a C-minus coach who's hit behind a great quarterback. I'm with you 100%. I'm not on board with that at all. I guess it's just like, it is just a talking point. I guess I'm just saying like, okay, what does that mean?

Like, do I think way differently of Tom Landry or Jimmy Johnson? or Bill Walsh, like, struggling at, you know, doing his thing. It's like, you don't, I don't know who thinks about these things. And I don't think Bill Belichick does either. I don't think at this point. I think he does. He does. I think he thinks about it probably 40 minutes out of every hour.

I guess still processing that super bowl. I think he's a cockamamie list of Besta when he did it for the 100th best, some of those names. He definitely cares about pro football history and his place in it. And I have talked with people who. who are relatively close, people who were in his circle over the last 20 years on his team. Willie McGinnis, you can just say. No. Like you don't have that many people.

You know, it's like Willie, it's David Carr. That's it. So it's got to be one of those two. Let the man make his point. Yeah. You're on tilt. I'm going to try and take shots that the name drops here. But I'm going to plow on anyway.

The, yeah, listen, I've been assured that he definitely cares about this. I love the. idea. One of the great missed opportunities, I don't know what amount of money it would have cost. Obviously, he's willing to do things that humiliate himself, witness those subway ads. So I wonder why he wouldn't put a camera on himself for the four hours of the Super Bowl, because that would have been to leave. What would have been more fun than watching Belichick?

Let it be sad listeners that are going to now get on me. I can't believe Dan, he's bringing up Belichick again and ripping Bill. I didn't do this. Shack brought this up this time. Well, one more thing, and then I'll be done about this. But I sincerely, I mean, they've obviously dominated the 21st century, the Patriots. And as we now try to make sense of it, one other thing that's going to go against Belichick going forward is it's not the same AFC East. The bills are a mighty force. I think the jets have a chance to put things together pretty quickly.

And the dolphins are fascinating, assuming Tua turns the corner here a little bit. I mean, it is very realistic that they could get into. a little mini run of a fourth place finishes for in the next couple of seasons. And to bring it back around, Shaq, things have changed for the Pittsburgh Steelers, too, because they had a nice long run there where it was them and the Patriots, and it just felt like one of those teams was going to come out. Another team would jump in every once in a while. Everything's changing in the AFC.

I mean, they haven't made a Super Bowl in like a decade. It always is funny to think about them as they were that team that was like kind of there, but not really. Like the Broncos were there. The Colts were there. like Peyton Manning was there but whatever team he was on but the Steelers weren't really ever there

they were a team to admire if you're a fan of a team that's struggling or an AFC North team but they were never that like competitive you went too far so you were trying to take a shot but you went too far and it became cartooning and I just want to say

with Cessler and Damashik together on the show today it just shows you you know in this in this country where everything's so turned up And it's always one side against the other and a lot of bad blood. And the fact that you two gentlemen have been on the show today. And it had you could, we haven't, Greg and I haven't sensed any hatred or tension,

despite the fact that I could tell you, Dave, that a lot of your tweeting during the season really got under Mark's skin. And then Mark had his great, great come up and it's come January. And that, that felt like a measure of revenge against you, Shaq, for some of your piffy comments about his beloved Cleveland Browns. The fact that you guys can be on the show together and there's no ill will, Well, just kudos to both you men. That's who we are. Yeah, that's right. We define class together and individually.

But I really do think, and I'm not trying to go down another rabbit hole. You talk about Jared Gough and Jimmy G. and Carson Wentz and all these guys. I am not convinced that Baker Mayfield is definitely the guy who is worth a big second contract. I'm not convinced to that, and I get that I take it with a grain of salt. I sincerely, I felt pleasure for, I felt happiness for, because I'm classy, like I say, for Mark Sessler and the Long-Suffering Browns fans, most of them. Some of them, there's always a percentage of creeps out there with any fan base. But I was happy to see that.

Also, though, the celebration that came off of that, and as though they had, as though Tom Brady thought that Browns fans got a little out of hand for winning a wild card game on that one. Like that was like, drunk Tom Brady off the boat was like, all right, settle down, Browns fans. You only want a playoff game. I agree with all that. I mean, I think that it had been 20 years. It was a good deal.

Of course. It was a big moment, Jack. In Pittsburgh, it was a whipping. No, you should celebrate all that. Enjoy it while you can. It might be another 20 years. Who you never know? You might as all enjoy it.

No, no. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't have enjoyed that. I am, though, saying, I really do. Don't get over your skis about the Cleveland Browns because they did that. You know, they really, they really were a Mason Rudolph, two-point conversion, and then who knows, a field goal in overtime away from not even getting there. In a game that they had to have at home, they almost lost the Mason Rudolph.

Now, they turn around and they shame. This is so condescending, Mark. I can't wait until you get to report. I just said, I just said. I just said they shamed the Steelers in a fashion that that was hard to stomach. There are more painful losses that I would attribute to Tom Brady and the Patriots in a couple of title games in the 21st century. But the most embarrassing loss was that one.

I mean, Marquis Pouncey over the head, Rathusberger throwing the worst interception literally. I know that sounds hyperbolic. The worst interception of his career was the first one was that in that game. The first one where he sailed at 17 feet over James Conner's head for the pick, and then you guys were off and running. I do, though, the low expectation and the result that you got, I could see the Browns winning the division in 2021. I think it now has that vibe of a destination kind of place.

Like if JJ Watt lands there and you put them on the other side of Miles Garrett, fascinating stuff, it'll be a feel-good. summertime for Browns fans. I just, I'm not positive that bakes the guy. How saying? Well, I would say this. The whole thing that these teams have to deal with where you aren't sure who your quarterback is, but this ticking clock sits out there on having to give them a massive

contract just because all quarterback contracts are giant at this point. I think it's a huge talking point in Cleveland, but compared to where he was a year ago, I mean, Baker, I think, did everything you could have asked. But I'm with you that, like, do I think, I would rather these contracts be like two years long. And then we can, let's check back in and see where we are at that point. But what I find delightful is that one of your primary concerns, and whether you're not to feel this way about yourself,

I feel this way about you, you are a concern about Brown's fans getting over their skis. That hasn't been an issue for decades plus. And what I noticed on Twitter was palpable panic from Steelers fans after they lost that playoff game. And, you know, Steelers fans, they're not that much different than New England fans in the sense that if you're of a certain age, the bad times, you know, the truly bad times are deep in the rearview mirror. If you think that what just happened was tough to handle, try two and a half decades of that. And let's check in on the mental state of Pittsburgh's fan base then.

It will be interesting. It will be freaky. I cannot wait to hear your comments in 2048 or whatever that is. We won't be able to see the Steelers fans skis because they'll be buried under an avalanche. The snow coming down on day's screen. I thought that's what you were about to. I thought this was all leading to you. Like, if you thought that one hurt, you ain't seen nothing yet.

I thought he's going there too. I wanted it together. Greg, you kind of, you were mentioning it earlier. And it's funny. Sheck brings it up because, yes, the Goff contract went sideways. The Wendstiel went sideways. Baker did come up in my mind as well. as great as he was at points last season and his rookie season as well,

maybe just wait it out to see how this season goes. Let's see, like, okay, you're a little grumbly baker. Just wait another year. What's the big, what's the big hurry? I'm with you. Well, on all these guys, it's like you, if you have Deshaun Watson, that's one thing, like just sign them early, although, you know, even the Texans might have some regrets about that. But just if it's not Deshaun Watson, don't sign them early.

They're going to blow that one. They're heading down a path. They're going to, they're going to wreck themselves by holding on to Deshaun, right? That's what they're not going to deal him. I bet you they hold on to him. They would be wise to deal him now or before the draft at least, but they're not going to. I think they're going to hold on to him. And they're going to be like, hey, third week of August, when you're showing up, Deshaun?

And he's going to be like, never, still should trade me. And they're just going to sit on him because of the. philosophy of like you you can't negotiate with free agents who are sitting out because that sets a bad tone and all of that whatever i mean it's it's a pristine organization with crystal clear thinking at this time so i don't know where the doubts come from i think maybe it's been playing playing the game for too long but as shek is setting up that hypothetical which could play out certainly i'm thinking about my fantasy draft and what would i do in that situation interesting he should go to the Jets is where he should go.

That's the trade. I love it. I'd love it. I don't know if it's going to happen, but it would be great. Mark, we talked about the Browns before we say goodbye for the weekend. This is something that we didn't get a chance to talk about earlier, but the man deserves a moment of discussion and one of your favorite NFL figures of all time who passed away last week.

Let's listen to a little bit of this figure. There's a gleam, man. There's a gleam. Let's get the gleam. All right. Marty Schottenheimer, one of the great head coaches of the late 20th century. Top 10 in all-time wins, passed away at age 77. Marty Ball, it was.

And he had an unbelievable run with the Cleveland Browns, also with the Chiefs, some huge seasons, even though they never got over the hunt. Hump, Washington football team, and the Chargers. He went 200, 126 in 1 in 21 seasons. A big time winner, Mark. And I know when you came of age as a football fan, he was El Ombre, the man in Cleveland. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, we could all,

for us, like, as Dave said, we're cheating life to be doing this as our work. But we don't get here also without football at some point. capturing our hearts, our imaginations for all of us when we were young, young boys. And when I became obsessed with the Cleveland Browns in 1986, when a friend moved to my town, my East Coast town where everyone was watching the Giants and Jets, you know, it was like, I'll find out whether or not this Browns team is for me. As a favor, I watched a Monday night game, my friend saying, this will be your team.

I think it was like a low-level Cowboys fan. He's like, forget the Cowboys. And it was Bernie Cozor. It was Ernest Biner. was Frank Minnefield, but for me, I've always been coach-centric because I played football at that age, and my coach has made a huge impact on me. And Marty Schottenheimer, right away, I just felt like this is what a football coach is. And for me, it was his verbalization and what he would say. And whenever he spoke, I just thought, this guy is different than the, you know, big beerbelly

dude that is, you know, just punching a clock. This guy is a motivating force and a wonder on that front. And he really, really got those Browns teams to believe. And I'll never forget that it was guys like Ernest Beiner who said he was like a father to me. So many Browns players said that. And, you know, on a personal note, my mom worked for this law office and the head lawyer guy was friends with Schottenheimer. And on a whim in like 1988, she's like reached, she had this guy reach out to Marty Schottenheimer and just say there is this like obsessed nerd on the East Coast who loves the Browns. And point blank, Schottenheimer sent me like this sign poster of the entire team, which is not a big deal except when you're that age. I was literally freaking out. And I went to my

first ever Browns game at Cleveland Municipal Stadium in November of 1988. It was a surprise gift from my dad. And they went and whipped up on a bad Steelers team, you know, that 88 team back then. And it was in a pouring rain. And in the third quarter, Schottenheimer had organized for at Old Cleveland Municipal Stadium for my name to be put up on the big gigantic end zone dog pound teleprompter thing with an announcement along with a bunch of other announcements, Girl Scouts and all this other business. But one of them was happy birthday to this guy from the East Coast. And it's little things like that.

But I think Marty Schottenheimer, the person. If you ever go watch a football life on him, it's the person up until the end. And it was really sad to see how he went out because he wasn't able to be that engaged, fire starter. And it's a pleasure to have Dave on the show because I know that Wes was one, well, the one person I could talk about those old AFC Central days with. He knew it. He was a Bengals fan during those Schaunheimer Browns days. And Shaq, you were right in that mix too. It was a special time in the NFL. It really was. I love that, that AFC Central era there as Sam Ritigliano gave way and Bump Phillips gave way to Jerry Glanville and Marty Schottenheimer and Sam Weish and Chasnoll,

the emperor of the division reprimanding some of those guys. If he didn't like something Jerry Glanville did, he would let him know on the field right after the game in the handshake kind of stuff. Before Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh and college football fields were arguing with each other, no would pull him in and say, you better tell your guys to cut that crap out. He would reprimand them like, this is our division, this is how it is. And Schopenheimer, a Pittsburgh guy, was easy to root for, not just because he was from Pittsburgh, but there's a glean man.

and all that kind of stuff that you see in movies and in the muck and mire of January, I did find myself rooting impossibly for the Browns to win those games. And Rich Carlos missed the field goal in overtime. It would have hit the post. Football would be different. We could have had Sessler Bowl. I never realized that it really would have happened very quickly because it would have been the Browns and the Giants in Phil Sims versus Bernie Kosar.

What a Super Bowl for the age. That would have been if young Mark Suzzler could have watched. that to steal his uh steal his heart for all of time if that matchup would have happened but yeah schottenheimer he kind of you know i don't know i don't know where the middle is there i guess it's somewhere in between of like belichick's way and bob knight's way and iron fist and all that kind of stuff and marty schottenheimer beloved by all who encountered him father figure and all that i know brown's fans wish and chargers fans would have liked to have seen him bring a lombardy home but in the meantime, you know, listen, we can, saccharine as it may be, you know, those things are nice too.

I would have liked for the Browns to get one, I guess, so that Schottenheimer had that and therefore would have had a gold jacket, certainly. Chase John Elway, his whole career, I mean, Kansas City, too. Chiefs fans, too, and Chargers fans. I saw this, I saw this, you know, he was 80 games over 500. I saw this, like, advanced metric evaluation of the best dynasties never to reach a Super Bowl, which is like, like they defined as a four-year run by football outside that the Saints just entered that discussion the last four years basically and I think they were you know in their statistical view was actually going to be number one number two and three were shot in the Heimer teams and it wasn't

the Browns it was it was the Chiefs and he contributed to most of the Chargers run which Norv Turner finished off and so like he he coached great teams basically everywhere he went it wasn't even just those Browns teams so many I hope you and Antonio Carmardi are happy with yourselves, Hey, and Susu. She really ruined what could have been a special season for the San Diego. You know what? That doesn't happen.

You guys, wait, am I getting it right? Wait, how did that go down? That was a part of... There was a 14 and 2 Chargers team, number one seed. The Jets were 9 and 7. They ran for like 400 yards in that game. Yeah, it was a close game. But, yeah, the Chargers just seemed...

And those Marty teams always seem... to come up short in the playoffs, but also in just crushing ways. And I was thinking about it, of course, everybody knows the drive and the fumble with Cleveland. But with the Chiefs, they had some excellent teams in addition to the Chargers teams that are excellent. And like I was looking back at my old pain rankings,

and I would have a category of the patrons saying of pain for organizations. I had Marty in that because he was, he was the face of the, you know, building up those massive Chiefs teams in the 90s that would always stumble and fall when it counted. They should have played, really, they would have played the Cowboys in Super Bowl 30, and it would have been a grand one if their kicker hadn't missed three kicks in that game. Yeah, that's yet another one.

And just because I have to hear the answer, Rosenthal, Eric Correels and Dan Fouts' chargers have to be the number one. I think their numbers didn't go back. I think DVOA doesn't go back that far. so it goes back like 30 some 35 36 years or something um okay there you go and i did get a chance to meet marty schottenheimer when we wrote uh the blog for around the NFL around the league and people would come through the studio and do the car wash got to sit down with marty and his wife just a really kind man what was i that day at work what was i interviewing i went into um that shadow league figures office and i said mark doesn't want it uh mark would rather just sit and file copy on

to Sean Jackson's hamstring injury, so I just handled it. Been talking to unsirious guy, I've been talking to Damashek again, I bet. Keep his eye on the ball. All right, there you go. Rest in peace, Marty Schaimer. Sheck, you've come, and you've said it all. And we really, we miss everybody because we haven't seen anybody from the office

in a year, but the fact that you are no longer with the company, That's a bummer, too. So it's just great to have you on the show. Well, a pleasure, of course, and I look forward to once this insanity is lifted, being able to, you know, Rosenthal, your wife, Wes and I, two of the great dinners of my life. And I remember, by the way, Hansu Sessler, Wes, and me went to a great steak place in New York City. Rosenthal, the Mrs. Wessing, and I had a three and a half hour dinner in a race. restaurant and you and rosenthal handsome and i had one of the five best dinners of my life in new orleans so i look forward to getting back on that train and i i lament that you know i'm

happy i texted the hanzus uh last night little things stand out to me now i saw that barry larkin has signed on to do color analysis for the reds this year and it me first thing i thought like west is gonna love uh uh west would i love that he really that would a yeah he loved to watch the red legs just purely for pleasure and he would have enjoyed that and i joked with cessler i look forward to uh the rise of joe burrow and watching west struggle to fight off the urge to start rooting for them once again but i appreciate you guys having me on to talk about a great fellow absolutely check yeah thank you and yes again chris westling is being celebrated on what would have been his 47th birthday over on nfl dot com it's up now i just checked it out so if you go to the

homepage scroll down you'll see a lot of his best stuff including uh one of his great pieces 10 football books you must read and he put a ton of work and effort into it in fact in honor of west and and thanks to mark as well for um putting it on my radar um number one on his list is a fan's notes by frederick exley uh and i i scooped that up on amazon last week and i've just started it and i'm really enjoying it like as i'm reading i was like oh i get why Wes is in love with this book and this writer. But check that as well. If you're somebody who absolutely loves football

and just craves the best writing about football, nobody had more knowledge of that than Chris. And Chris sets the table so beautifully in that article. One of the many great reads over there on dot com, as we remember, the great Chris Wessling. All right. Anybody else have? I would just say that fans notes that one of my earliest memories of West was before I met him.

But you know how you'd start to engage with people on Twitter and go back and forth. And we, I don't know how it started, but we got on this riff about a year and a half before he started at NFL.com about a fan's notes. And I immediately just remember thinking like, this is a different type of sports fan and sports writer on Twitter. Like it had nothing to do with numbers and analytics and all this other business. He was in love with what that story had to tell. And so I really think that anyone out there who's not read that book, you will get a sense and a slice of the West's mystique inside those pages. Well said, well said.

All right. We'll be back full slate of shows next week as we start to edge, of course, toward free agency and the draft. And thank you again to the great Dave Damashak. Check him out, minus three pod and the extra points podcast. And hopefully, Dave's a thunder. Just come on, give us. We'll be back.

But happy birthday in the meantime to the boss and to Wes. And keep up with the mirth, fellas. Thank you, Shaq. And happy birthday to Greg Rosenville, 42 years young. The Jackie Robinson of the Around the NFL podcast. Stan Hansis, signing off. I'm Jackie Robinson. Sheck, the old boss, and the new birthday boy, and, of course,

behind the virtual glass. Have a great weekend until Monday. You know, So, Hey everybody, Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move to Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters.

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