NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Wide Receiver and Tight End Prospect Rankings

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Patrick Claybon and Matt Harmon of Yahoo! Sports and Reception Perception for a deep dive into the 2025 NFL Draft's wide receiver and tight end class. Matt tells you why Travis Hunter is in a class of his own (03:45), why Emeka Egbuka and Tetairoa McMillan fall into the second tier of WRs (07:35), and discusses Matthew Golden (21:15), Luther Burden (28:40), Jaylin Noel (34:10), Jayden Higgins (36:10), and more! The show is wrapped with the guy's favorite tight ends (45:44) including Harrold Fannin Jr., Tyler Warren, and Terrance Ferguson. Note: time codes approximate. NFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Welcome to NFL Daily, where we perceive all the receptions. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm here in the Chris Wesleying podcast studio. with Patrick Claibon, my friend, and coming to us live from the East Coast. Virginia, I believe, the man, Matt Harmon, who created reception perception,

who has never seen a reception that he has not perceived with utter clarity. And that's why he's the man to talk wide receivers in tight ends. What's up, buddy? That was the most humbling and gratifying introduction I think I've ever gotten on a show. You know, it's funny. I guess if you think about it, like the whole point of reception perception, is going beyond just the the catches and the production. So maybe that was a bad name, you know,

because like it should be like route perception or something. So now you've really got. No. You got me in a tailspin now about the whole business. No, it sounds. It sounds great because it rhymes. And I don't think anyone until I came along really broke it down to its root meeting, which is that you have a more of a depth of perception than other people.

Yeah. It's putting out front, hey, we're going to contextualize the thing that you want out of this process, which is a reception, right? You run the routes and you throw the ball in order to have the reception. And so we were going to perceive the receptions

and the man who birthed the idea from his loins, which has been duplicated, I mean, imitated, but never duplicated. Joining us on the show to talk about past catchers because, again, you want the reception. That's what you want.

It's true. We have tight ends today as well. And there is a little part of me that feels guilty when we just have Matt on to talk receivers. It's like, oh, It's draft season.

Let's go break out Harmon out of the closet to like, let's move, monkey and just talk receivers and tight ends. That's not all you're good for. You're a husband. You're a great analyst of fantasy football

that used to do, you know, fantasy with Patrick here. I believe you two guys probably attended each other's wedding. So I'm feeling like I'm not as close. But we did do a podcast back in the day backyard banter. I mean, you're just more than just

reception, perception, and receivers. But that is kind of your specialty, Harmon. Just accept it. I mean, it would have been really weird if you brought me on here. It's like, all right, let's talk kickers. You know, like, let's do it. We could just be a normal show. You're a great analyst. Well, I appreciate that. And yeah, I can confirm. I was at Patrick Claibon's wedding. And he was at mine. So, yeah, boom, there we go. We can officially put that confirmation out there. But how is that chemistry going to show up in this show, though? Like, will it? Will people be able to tell the difference that you guys are really that tight. No, I keep it, I keep it professional with everybody on air. Obviously, off air as soon as

as we click out of here, like, I'm going to be very friendly with Claibon and very antagonistic to you, Greg. But that is just the, that's just professionalism really here. But I want to say here on the tight end part of it, just off the top, um, I don't chart tight ends, uh, you know, for reception. So, so, but that's the best part of this is that we'll do my very, you know, buttoned up like, all right, I've charted every route of these guys for the wide receivers. and then with tight ends, we're just going to kind of shoot from the hip. So it'll be fun.

I'm looking forward to it. That's what we're doing with everyone. And let's just get into it. Let's talk receivers. And I don't know, like your rankings, Harmon. And I know Patrick's got some hot takes about these receivers. I don't know if he has a ranking. He's got some hot takes.

And I've got some of my own as well. So I don't know if you have a pure rankings after going through them all. But who's kind of in your top and break it down by tears in the top? Okay. So yeah, I do have rankings. They are on reception.com. The stacked rankings from multiple classes. So you can kind of compare 2025 to 24, 23, et cetera, et cetera. Number one, tier of his own is Travis Hunter to me if we're just viewing him as a wide receiver. I mean, I really think it's undersold just what an incredible pure football player he is. Like I think he should clearly be the number one prospect in this class. And it just like we use generational all the time. and usually it's bad analysis. Usually a player is not generational. This guy actually is a once in a lifetime football player. So there's that part of it just straight up.

But if we're just viewing him as a wide receiver, he's one of my favorite receivers I've ever evaluated because he just checks every single box. 97th percentile success rate versus zone, 97th percentile success rate versus press. I realize he's obviously playing maybe some lighter competition in the big 12, but he's dominating. He's obliterating that competition.

He also has rare ball skills, rare catching ability. He's excellent in contested catch situations. He rarely goes down on first contact. My comparison for him, both as a mover off the line of scrimmage, just an overall receiver, is like Prime Odell Beckham. So to me, like he is, he's up there and perhaps even ahead of some of the guys that went in the top 10 of last year's draft class. So he's the only one that I think is like a true tier one. You could take this guy in the top 10 of any draft. He's a ready made starter.

He could turn into a superstar. He's the only guy like that in this class to me. I think the thing that runs people off, because if you listen to like Steve Smith's thoughts on Travis Hunter as a wide receiver, there's the rawness. And I understand the O'Dell comp, but then there's an aspect of route running where I would like to equate it to you have your standard golf swing and then you have your non-standard golf swings. But ultimately what matters is where the ball winds up. And if you're going for another cross sport comp, if you're going for another cross sport comp, if you're going. form basketball shooting. You look at Clay Thompson, shoot the basketball,

and you're like, oh, that guy is a much better shooter than this Steph Curry character. But Steph has done it more often and better than anybody who's ever touched the basketball. And so, like, I understand if you're looking at Travis Hunter run routes and then you say, look at O'Dell, and it's like, well, there's a different look. There's plenty of different ways to go about things,

but you can't dispute the fact that he is still getting open. Well, he's also on the field for 110 snaps. and in the defensive meeting rooms. Like the thing that struck out to me, we're not going to spend too much time. I'm just because you're a victim of the circumstance of the NFL Daily Week, Harmon. I feel like it's been a big Travis on our week.

We've definitely talked about him. And I'm with you. I would absolutely take him over Harrison and neighbors as prospects just that receiver. To me, he is right there with like the Jamar Chase's and the best wide receiver prospects that we've seen. And part of it is just like the game. slows down for him at such an incredible level that you can see the football intelligence.

And so if you add the intelligence and then the ridiculously athletic, you know, skills that that he has, just his ball skills and his reach and everything is just absolutely next level. And then you add in like 120% of the dog in him that he has. Like what more do you want? He to me would be the number one overall player just as a wide receiver and as a cornerback. But I'm more interested now because we haven't dove as deeply into the rest of the class. Let's say he's in a tier of his own. There is a lot of disagreement, I think, about how to stack the next three guys potentially,

or depending on how you feel the next five, six, and then on and on. Because it feels like it's a deep class where there's a lot of guys who are going to play important roles, but different views on what types of players that these guys are. So a little bit agnostic, having broken down all the. the film where do you go after hunter yeah uh i think there's two guys that stand out from the next chunk to me that i think there's a gap between them and and then everybody else where i do agree with you that everybody else is you know like late round one early round two type or a very very good day two player um the two guys that stick out to me are tetra mcmillan at a

arizona and then emmecca abuka at ohio state and the reason i like egbuka more than some of these other plays. He's just so reliable. And I'm a sucker for like this type of wide receiver because they tend to, you know, like, okay, he's just a number two. He's more like a power slot receiver. How much upside is there with that? Nobody complains about the upside of Amon-Ross St. Brown when he pushes to like lead the NFL in receptions every single year. And he is cut from the same cloth is like Buka to me. Great zone beater, but I think he's good enough against man coverage in reception perception to play outside. Awesome hands. Again, he's just so reliable. So he is a guy that I would take in like the middle of the first round and yeah okay he's my number two

receiver big big whoop you're getting a huge value on that from what number two receivers quote unquote are paid in the NFL right now so he's he's my three and McMill and I have a little bit ahead of him just because you know the size profile is really good he's just a like good strong ex receiver prospect not perfect which is why he's not quite in that tier one level to me there are some flaws in his game but you know again somebody be really comfortable picking in the first round. Okay, so those two guys are 17 and 18 on Daniel Jeremiah's big board. Behind

Matthew Golden, by the way, who will get to I'm sure soon. Let's start with Agbuka here because he's someone, I've gotten back and forth with when I watched him and then when I talked to people and I'm like, for instance, our friend Mina Kimes thinks he's diet Jackson

Smith and Jigba and other people think he's better than a Jackson Smith than Jigba and he's in that category and the more I watch, I kind of settled on that. He's probably a little below that for me. And it's what you want to value. If you're like Harmon and I think more than any player in this class,

he feels like a very safe single or double. I kind of came down on that maybe he's not quite special enough that if I had to like rank him versus other guys in the past, like Smith and Jigba, I actually would put him a little bit below. But he was a professional in college. He's going to be a professional in the pros. he's going to be a good player.

I think the ceiling's a little lower, but that's fine because of what Matt Harmon said. Now, is he going to be a number two like Devante Smith is number two? I don't necessarily think that. No, I don't think he's that type of number two, but he's going to play in the NFL for a long time. And in this draft where you don't know anything after the top four or five, like that has a lot of back.

Yeah, if we're, if the, if the goal, right, is Devante Smith, then that's going to be tough to find in the draft in general other than other than Travis Hunter. With Abuka, I, I would like to. see the explosion if I'm going to have him ahead of golden, right? Or even like Higgins who will get to where I just need to see the elite traits. I think some of the things that, and I'm not saying this is building mad up, but it's building other people up with a Buka is the uniform. And there's

a little Ohio state. And there's the idea that, oh, this is, you're getting scary Terry. You're getting pre-transfer JMO. You're getting OLAV. I just, I don't see any of those. No, I agree. Like that ability to explode away. and north of 200, I would have liked to see just a few more broken tackles in making more plays in space. But I understand there is an absolute value of knowing where somebody is going to be and when they're going to get there. And that's what makes him a safe pick. But if I'm, if I'm trying to hit home runs in this draft, which is I think is what you should try to do, I think doubles are fine. Doubles in this class. Like, if he was a running back, he would be

David Montgomery to me. Like, just like, that's pretty good. It's got, that's, it's really good. And it's why I have him fourth. I do have him behind behind Golden and T-Mack. T-Mack, by the way, says he wants to be called T-Mack. So that's what he, as his first name, essentially. So I will do. No, and I do wonder with the age, right, at 22, he probably never saw Tracy McGrady play basketball, ever.

No, you're right. That's fair. So he can take it, I guess. It's fine. It's been a generation. Egbuka will be like, you know what he's really good at, Matt? And this is probably where he banks really well on reception perception. He's very good at catching the football. You know how when the quarterback throws it to

him, it's like this kind of crazy shape and the ball comes at different speeds and they come in different directions. A lot of times with Egbuka, it's over the shoulder. He's good at putting his hands up and then he catches it. Like that's, I feel like it gets. Pretty important thing at the wide receiver. Like he is actually all these guys at the top are have good hands. I would say none of them they're all plus but to me he's like extra plus so is do you want to fight back against anything that patrick said there uh i think it really is like what you value and this is kind of the hard part about like ranking why especially the wide receiver position it's hard for any draft prospect in general and just an entire class worth when you're not looking at

it for a specific team or a specific system because like i love amman ross st brown the the player that i compare egbuka to um but he probably wouldn't be that guy on every single team, right? And this is the tough part with this archetype of receiver is that you get them in the right offense and you can flow the entire thing through them. But then at the same time, like you look at these guys who are primary power slot players. And, you know, sometimes because of the size or build or whatever, they might get played more outside in a certain system. And it's not quite the same statistical result. So I just love a guy that I think is B plus, B plus, B plus, maybe a minus as a zone

beater across the board. And I think I can drop him into pretty much any offense and he's going to give me a nice floor of a player. But I do think there are certain systems and certain offenses around the league where he'd actually be one of the most productive wideouts in the league. Just on the JSN comparison,

just because I want to come back to that. And I like JSN a touch more as a prospect. I've basically put it that I think JSN was a flashier player because he was a better man coverage beater than Igbuka is. But I think Igbuka is probably a superior like dirty work guy

and like more of a, rugged receiver. Yeah, and they gave him the ball so much because Egbuka, that is, like in the backfield. He played running back, full back. Like, he has a lot of, like, and he'd always get what's blocked. And that's why I thought about Montgomery, like, he's a seven to eight yard type of guy. I don't know if he has the downfield pop of, of St. Brown or JSN in the end. I didn't evaluate St. Brown, like coming out of college, so it's hard to compare it to them. But in terms of a pro, I think that the floor is, you know, maybe higher than these other guys. But But McMillan, I kind of came into it.

And I hate having some, you know, thoughts ahead of time of what you hear. And maybe it's a little bit of a prejudice. And I expected to not like him as much as I did for whatever reason. And I loved him. And I think if it wasn't for all the plays that he doesn't have, he's the number one guy, I think, in maybe the last couple of classes, where if you only watched his targets, he would be ranked higher than if you didn't watch the rest.

of his snaps. And that's why I get why DJ's got him number 18 overall. That's why I get that he's not just the home run number two behind Hunter because I think of it was just his targets. He's probably the home run number two. I really like Golden 2 and we'll get to him. But I thought like the other the other snaps like weren't as good. Like he's a better guy. I actually tell me because I'm just flying off the hip. Did you grade him better versus zone than man? Was there a big difference there? Yeah, like, it's actually pretty close percentile-wise. He's a 59th percentile man coverage beater.

He's a 60th percentile zone beater. So it is like very neck and neck. But he's actually the, in terms of success rate versus man, press and zone, relatively he's best against press coverage, which I actually kind of did like, I almost completely disagree with what you said about him being like, I like more watching him when he doesn't get the ball because I think when he gets the ball, if you're just watching his targets, you kind of. kind of bucket him into this like big ball winning lack of separation receiver because he's in so many contested situations. But I think the best parts of his game and the reasons that I think he's, you know, better. Like to me, the number two, if we're if we're putting out Travis Hunter, he's the number one receiver in this class is because he's so good on these like in breaking routes, particularly like posts and digs and stuff like that. So I kind of settled on a Cortland Sutton comparison for him. Like somebody that is probably like an ideal high end too, but you can get away with him being.

your number one receiver. That's generally what I see when I look at TMAC. But it's a good prospect profile overall, not quite like a tier one player to me, but there's a lot of things to like about him. He sneaks up on you after the catch. So really it is like the plays where the ball doesn't go his way. Interesting. But he doesn't try that hard. That's my number one thing. I think the effort was bad. I hear you on that. Well, I think that's huge. And that kind of goes along. And you never know at this time of year what's true or what's not with that kind of criticism. But it reminded me a lot of A.D. Mitchell from a year ago, who to me had big red flags on his tape that you just didn't try that hard one on a lot of plays. And that felt like, well, Macmillan.

McMillan seemed so upset all the time that he wasn't getting the ball enough. He certainly wasn't interested, like run blocking or when he wasn't the primary guy. And I'm thinking, like, this is the most productive receiver in the last few years just about. Like, he came in averaging 18 yards per catch. He had 1300 yards both years. He's awesome. I really think it's going to work out. for the most part, but I would want to get to the bottom of that, that, that to me,

there were just a lot of, there were a lot of routes where it's just like, man, I'm not, like, where he, there was a couple where he just literally stood there. Well, I was like, come on. Yeah, he probably should be better than he is, but, but he's still. No, no, like, when he was the primary guy, I think, like, when he got the ball, he was freaking incredible. I think to contextualize some of those everythings, right? Uh, okay, so October 5th, loss, October 12, loss, October 19, loss, October 26, loss, November 2nd, loss. Some of these are by like 27 points too. They're getting run out of the stadium routinely.

He's the leading receiver. There's a guy we'll talk about who had an even bigger number, but he had like 44% of their passing yards were yards that were thrown to T-Mack. And so like, and I understand, but the amount of volume placed on him in the passing game, especially at a big height and weight. I could see where that could cause you to. You think he's just tired maybe. Yeah, kind of frazzle in many situations

where if you're not the one on a route, like, why am I selling out at 6.4? Well, because you might get to number two on the route. And I think, right, if you go back and watch the Colorado game, a lot of folks are like, hey, it's the Colorado game show that if you play some talent in the defensive backfield, you're not going to get the production. I saw him turn a defender around

and get six yards of separation and a ball hit the water cooler after it hit his hands. And then I saw another deep pass that would have been a spot foul on pass interference that in college football just got 15 yards.

And so you're taking away the impact there where I just saw this dude have nothing more than impact in games. That's why I would bet on him in the end. Like I just find him fascinating. I think he'd go in so many directors. I've heard Michael Pittman as a comparison. And then that's where like if he doesn't have

kind of the next level, explosion or something, you've got to be a try hard player. You're going to need to block with the type of inside player that he's going to be. And so that's, you want him to be that guy. But just for a little background for people who aren't familiar from Arizona, like, like I said, 1,300 plus yards, 1,400 plus yards. He came into this season, almost knowing he was going to be a high pick. And that, that's a tricky spot to be. And you do wonder between him and Will Johnson, two guys who are kind of expected to be top five picks coming into it. It's a, their teams are much better. Maybe that does explain a little bit of whether it's effort or just any in the end he got

it done. I actually think he's a much better guy after the catch than Cortland Sutton for instance. Like he's he's a good yak guy. Like he really he can dunk on guys. He can do it all. I think he has a great natural feel like that that's where I don't know that I have so many comps just flying around. But like George Pickens like he's got a he's got not as a player, but just as a feel for the position. I think he's got that. He's football smart is is I guess how I would put it. yeah i i like to do comps in like kind of archetypes and families of receivers and i think he belongs to the family of receiver that's like michael thomas drake london gap uh you know michael pitman courtland sutton like these bigger guys who are better separators than you think

um but i think he falls closer to like the sutton pitman zone but there's no question that like if he fully dials in i think he could get a little bit closer to drake london but i have a very high opinion of drake lond and that's just where and he was making a lot of plays like down the field and like I said was not like he would go down at first contact basically it's not like he's breaking tackles but he's a smooth athlete that made a lot of great great plays after the catch so I find him fascinating I have him I have him right there with with gold and I haven't really made a decision so we'll talk about golden after the break we'll talk about the rest of a very fascinating wide receiver class right after this

Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my.

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Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Back on NFL Daily, a man with the biggest water bottle I've ever seen, Matt Harmon. It's right next to me. You always will just show it off. It just feels a little show-offy. It's a little bit. I am better than you

because I'm more hydrated than you that is for sure your water bottle should increase with your mass and Matt has put on so much mass It's true Very fit That's what I mean

He's gonna be at the two gallon water bottle very soon It's true Matt is Matt is a year away from I guess you're not gonna be 6 4 like Tet McMillan

But he's gonna be a draft site The 2027 NFL draft will be At Matt Harmon The goal The goal is to next year at the combine, you know, provided that they let me go back, is to like slip into just like one of the jumpsuits. Well, definitely get into the bench. Slip into one of the jumpsuits and see if I can get like some random beat writer to start asking

me questions. A lot of buzz. A lot of buzz about Harmon's body lately. Too much. Let's talk about your next tier. So Matthew Golden, who you mentioned Steve Smith, for instance. It's his number one wide receiver. Jeremiah really has the top three basically the same, 16, 17, 18 overall in his board. But he does have golden first. Some people I trust, we had on Ali Connolly earlier this week. He had golden, I believe, as his kind of cleared number two along with TMAC, actually, not clear, but kind of those two grouped together as a strong two behind Hunter. So where do you have golden and give me kind of this tier, what you have lined up? Yeah, Golden's my next guy after Agbuka.

And I really like Matthew Golden. And what's the rest of the tier first before we get into Golden? I want to hear it. Or is he all by himself? No, Luther Burden and Jalen Knoll actually out of Iowa State. This is kind of like the guys that I think are late first rounders, early second rounder types. I think Golden's really good player. He comes out excellent in terms of success rate versus zone coverage.

I don't think, I think his route running like in the short area is not ideal, but he's an excellent like once he builds up speed he and to be honest you the i never saw him as like a four sub four three player but he's obviously fast he brings you verticality it's really he's more like just when he snaps off routes again particularly in breakers he just gets so so significantly open particularly against like off yeah it really pops and he to me would fit so well in a positioning that like jordan addison found himself in which is he's across from a great number one and he can be a very very good number two that gives you maybe not consistent production but like chunk plays and explosives down the field and probably from like that offensive family tree as well so i really

like golden i think he does i'm he's he's got good hands in contested situations is actually one of these guys that the harder and more difficult the catch the higher the catch rate is and then if it's just some of the more routine stuff underneath he will occasionally put too many balls on the ground so um to me i just like i think there's more upside with some of the other guys, I think Golden looks like just more of like a good solid number two receiver in the NFL who's probably going to be more tactically valuable to a team because he opens up space for guys underneath, then he will be like productive in a top receiver role. When you ran all the numbers, so people who aren't familiar, you should check out Matt Harmon on all the podcast. He does.

He does some football 301 with Nate Tice. He's got his own podcast, which is fantasy podcast at Yahoo, but he also does reception perception. That's his site. That's the supplement. supplementary income that he makes, which is all, it's important in the game. You got your big job, but then he's got a little side job. And so if you are into football, I highly recommend checking that out, subscribing. When, when you broke it all down, and this is proprietary stuff here, when you broke it all down with golden, I'm curious if anything stuck out just like in terms of how he wins or whether he was just kind of consistent across the board. no i think if you look at like his route tree like the route success by route chart it really is

the stuff down the field nines posts corners digs outs but where i think and this is just what i get hung up on is that he's kind of average to below average on curls and slants and and stuff like that where he's going to just like rack up consistent production i think that's the part where i didn't really see like a clear cut round one player and i saw more of a very good complimentary guy again And if he lands in a spot, like, once the, once the draft happens, he lands in a spot like Dallas where he is across from a great number one wide receiver, like, then I think that's a really good situation for him. But where I wouldn't want him to go is somewhere where he has to then step into that number one wide receiver role because I think he's more, again, more tactically valuable and like as a compliment than he is as a true number one. Yeah, the landing spot always is going to matter for all of these guys. but I think when you have elite traits,

like his explosiveness is elite. And you look at the tape and it shows up there. So like Matt mentioned in the end breakers, I think there were a lot of passing yards that Quinn yours might have left on the table. Yes. Having golden. Although he let him almost show off the ball skills

because he had a lot of great catches because they were on bad bad throws. Quinn's been doing that for a few prospects the last couple years. It's had some guys of some situations where, like, we might have underrated Xavier Worthy because of the way things kind of turned out there. And so, like, I know they had him returning kicks.

I didn't necessarily see the broken tackles as a kicker because you get this idea that, oh, this is a kick returner. You get him the ball in space is going to make. There wasn't a lot of that. But the explosion leapt off the screen in a capacity to me that I can't push him down past other guys who don't have. Yeah, to me he's so smooth. I went back and forth between him

McMillan in the end, but to me, I would have them kind of clearly ahead. Because to me, he's not a similar player to Igbuka, but to me, he has a very high floor. And maybe I'm wrong about that. He came on and had a, at a big year. But he seems very good at a lot of things, just a solid, as you're saying, wide receiver too, but I do think there's a little potential for him to be closer to a Devontas Smith, not that he's exactly the same player, but in the same way that when people were saying, well, the size, like, you know, is not ideal size.

don't care. The way he played, he plays very strong for his size. So I'm not worried about his size. He pushed guys off like off press coverage. Like he almost, he, he brought it on. And I thought he succeeded a lot when he did it. And so that to me was like, hmm, is there even more here where he can be like really one of the best second receivers in the league or a top 25 receiver? You mentioned McLaurin. And I think it was, was it John Ledyard who made that comparison. And I can kind of see that like in a perfect world maybe he wins a little bit like McLaren and obviously you know McLaren's like all pro level that's next level but you got to see how McLaren fell in the draft and I could kind of see that and so I like him a lot I think it's a it's a really good

wide receiver class to me there's a pretty big drop off after those four but not for you you you have Burden and you have Noel in this class so kind of go through your process and what you think about those two guys yeah with burden he's he's he's He's a tough one, man, because I think if you grade to the flashes, I think he looks like the, he could be the best receiver in this class. The problem is that it's not all flashes. Like, I do think he's a bit of a similar to TMAC where I think TMAX a bit of a misunderstood player is this just like big non-separation ball winner. I think Luther Burden is a little bit too miscast because of how he was used as like a Mickey Mouse pop gun receiver. Like just kind of a design touches gadget player.

There's actually, to me, a lot more to his game. Potentially. As a man coverage beater, again, it is flashes because he faced more zone coverage than any receiver I've charted this year and only one other prospect in like the entire prospect database I have, which is about 150 players now has faced more zone coverage than him. And it's just because of that role that he's playing in. So again, it's flashes. But still 68th percentile success rate versus man coverage right over 70 percent, which is an encouraging number. It's primarily on these like outbreaking routes where he was really, really good. I mean, 90.9 percent. success rate on out routes really really encouraging number for him the problem is he's facing all that zone coverage and he's like an average zone beater um he just gets caught up sometimes he runs himself into zone coverage he doesn't have the best feel for it uh so i think there's honestly the the best way to say it is how good is luther burden going to be like that's up to luther burden uh because he's another guy that came into this year with like a lot of hype is just like he's going to be a top 10 pick he's the best receiver in this class and you know people kind of think he mailed in this season. And I think normally I wouldn't say something like, normally I wouldn't say something like that, but I think it shows up at times that he's just not fully engaged with what's going on. I think that's true. But I, so I went back and someone was like, you got to watch his his junior tape or something tape and stuff. But I thought it was there too. Like he maybe popped a little more, but the effort was kind of came and went a little bit with

with those two earlier. He is a very exciting player, but I struggle, and maybe you're going to push back here, Patrick, with, like, just how does he fit into a team? I think that is sometimes lost in the draft Nix, the industrial complex. If there's one thing that's probably missing the most that I would say, is a knowledge of, like, how teams work

and what's working in the league and how he's going to fit. And burden feels like, man, you better have a plan for him, and I'm not totally sure. So I hear you that it could be really exciting, but it could be, to me, he looks like, for most teams, like a fourth receiver that you're like, how do we use this guy? Yeah, and there's that danger of the gadget guy, right?

Right. That gets misused. And I think the difficulty in what needs to be done is you need to evaluate what he can do because I'm not sure Missouri was really featuring that, especially in 2024. They brought on Kirby Moore as the new offensive coordinator after the 2020 three season.

season, and they went from the 29th ranked offense in college football to 55, right? The points per game dropped by seven, and you just watch and you're like, okay, like, show me what you can do, Luther, and the offense is keeping you from seeing that. Like, I really don't think, just in terms of evaluating what the offense gave him an opportunity to do, like, because it was the same quarterback. And you're just wondering, like, the crispness of, if you're going to ding Luther on the crispness of the routes and the way he proceeds. Yeah.

I kind of want to see the offense. Right. Operating that capacity. It felt a little like Tyler Warren, who will get to. It was just kind of like, hey, run over there. You know, just like, it's kind of run over there and we'll figure it out. I don't know. But one thing, right, he punishes bad tackling.

If you are not in the proper position, Luther is going to make you play. And if like you're a Nick Emon Worry fan, the South Carolina game, when they were, when when there was one-on-one, Nick got him on the ground. But then to this, to the same. extent when you finish that game luther runs a slot fade with a minute and 30 seconds to go and wins the game right so you saw like his ability to separate and to make plays the catch point but it you need to have maybe if the tackling is not yeah up to snuff he's going to make you pay but if guys are out there can move and have the physical capacity he's not breaking tackles to the extent that you'd want like okay this is our this is our debo samuel which like nobody should do that anymore stop doing that but like if you think but he is that he is that guy in this class if those guys haven't worked lately maybe that's what he's but he's so much better against man coverage than a guy like debo samuel that that's what that's what i get i i i come down with him that i think there is

more to his game there's room to grow there and like i mean like he could use him like rishy rice is used with the kansas city chief so if you don't like luther burton's usage i better not hear you saying like rishy rice is one of the best young receivers in the league like i just i think you can use him in that way and you can develop more from there. See, maybe it's, maybe it's just the time in like the NFL evolution that we're doing this show that I'm just like less into these guys now than I would have been. Like to me, if he was going to be a chiefs receiver, he feels more like Cadarious Tony. But I want to go back and watch.

I don't feel like I watch enough of all these guys. And sometimes it's the games that that you catch them. And I did try to go back to to the older ones. I mean, he's a really exciting player. I think he's one where fit is going to matter even more. than most. I think that's true of Noelle, though, as well. So it's interesting that you put him on your list this high, Jalen Noelle. So he's 510, 194. Very interesting profile. Fast 40, but was more of like a vertical slot guy. And so that's the type of role I think he would have

in the NFL. The trick is to me, kind of going back to what I said with Burden, too, is like how many teams know how to use that? How many of those guys really are there? You kind of need to do a lot of things. Do you think he can do a lot of things? Jalen, Noel? Oh, yeah. Like, this is my type of receiver. From a reception standpoint, he's very similar to, um, like Ladd-McConkie last year from a man coverage standpoint from like more of a full profile standpoint. I actually think he compares pretty well to Josh Downs, who like, I mean, Josh Downs would be a much more productive player if he wasn't playing in that Colts offense because I think he can give you a lot of that

like downfield stuff. You saw that with Drake May at UNC. So yeah, Noah. well, I agree with you more of like a vertical slot receiver, which that's what I want out of my slot. Like, I don't want them to just be that pop gun slot receiver. Maybe Christian Kirk is a comp? What? Who's your time? Like, again, in that same, I think, family of, uh, of players as well. And I mean, I think Kirk, he got a lot of, uh, you know, grief for the contract that he signed, but he was a really useful player for Jacksonville for a while. So I just, this is the type of player that I think gets pushed down because they don't fit like traditional positional, um, you know, size.

and kind of deployment, but you get them in an NFL receiver room and whether they're the two or the three or whatever, they're just a really, really useful player. You got to find the right, the right fit. He does feel, unless he, but you're saying he can do more and I like that. I want to go back and watch a little Jalen Noel more. My question with Noel is why Noel before Higgins? Okay, yeah. And that can be a transition to your next group, which I assume Jaden Higgins, his teammate. They complimented each other very well, I thought, at Iowa. state, but you have Higgins lower. Give me your next tier.

And then, and then, yeah, let us know why lower? Yeah, we're like now in the squarely day two zone, which I'm not, like, Higgins is not next on my list here. I've got guys like Jack Bess, Kyle Williams, Trey Harris. Oh, so you hate him. I don't, I mean, I don't hate Jaden Higgins, but like, I am a little confused why everybody's a lot higher on Jaden Higgins than some of these other guys because, like, he just doesn't separate enough to me.

like that's that's the problem here especially against like press man coverage so to me I don't think he profiles as an NFL X receiver like teams are talking about like Greg where where the league is going like teams are moving away from this non separation you know big X receiver like what people think McMillan is I think Higgins actually is now that that's not useless in the NFL and by the way like I felt very similar a lot of the parts of Jaden Higgins profile in terms of him being like a below average press man coverage success rate player very similar to like keon Coleman last year. I did this whole breakdown on YouTube about it where like these guys that are sub 35th percentile in press and man coverage and reception perception, all the prospects that were

that way that have gone on to be successes in the NFL. They've transitioned from outside receivers to big slot receivers in the NFL. Judu's Mishuster. I've mentioned Rishi Rice. Amon Raus St. Brown was this guy. So like there's a path for Higgins, but he is very much. one of these guys like tell me what team he's playing for like tell me how this coaching staff is using him because I think if he is used the right way then I think like okay he could be in that's in that like archetype of player where he's this jumbo slot receiver who's really good against zone coverage who catches everything not he's got like an alligator arm thing like kind of that 90 degree angle and contested situations like let's use that whole wingspan let's stretch

those arms out a little bit more short though I feel like there's no he's the one with It's a massive wingspan. And I think he leaves some of them on the table. But the arms are short, which is a tough one. I liked him less the more I watched him. I liked him a lot right away. And then he felt like... I had the same experience.

He felt like it was kind of inconsistent, which you don't want. And this is where I probably disagree on burden to consensus was I didn't think his skills, Higgins, that is, were special enough to kind of make up for it. And I actually kind of felt that with burden too. I thought to be that type of player, you have to really snap. You have to be really special. And I didn't quite get there for him. So I'm kind of with you on Higgins that I think he's an NFL player.

But I don't think in the end I came like as high on him. Yeah, it's the, it's tough. Again, the traits, right, to I can't run away from those when those are those are something when you've got the, the wingspan, right? And I understand. and Matt's absolutely right about the criticism at the catch point where that's a place where if you're trying to separate him and McMillan like there's a notable difference there

but just to have that explosion this and if you want to like watch that that Houston game I saw him making guys miss at that height and weight where it's exciting it gets me excited and thinks well the ceiling is there and again you're trying to hit these home runs

and they there were multiple teams that literally had no answer for him. That's fair. That's why I think it was all, like some games were good, and then some games just didn't seem like he had a great feel. That's probably what I value the most. I mean, it's all about how you were raised as a fan or a wannabe draft.

I go back to like, I always liked like the Kiri Colbert and Mark Clayton types. The real receiver is receivers that maybe kind of like in a Bucca or golden who you feel like you know what you're getting. And they really can run the routes and they can snap off and they can do everything. but my other type, and there is one in this class, and we already talked about him on my last show,

so I'm not going to repeat myself, but my guy in this class to try to hit a home run is definitely Kyle Williams. And to me, if you told me he's your third or fourth receiver in this class, I get it. Like, I would be fine taking him personally in the first round because I see it all. I love it.

I love these some Kyle Williams. Why don't you love him quite as much as me, Matt Harmon? I mean, I don't know. He's pretty highly ranked for me. And again, I think he's a guy that is, like, I would put him in a tier ahead of even Jaden Higgins. Okay. I mean, he's kind of like the middle, like sort of a no man's land between like, you're not quite like around one guy, but you're not like a clear cut day two guy.

Okay, why isn't he around one guy? Because he is a guy I kept watching and being like, yeah, what am I missing? Because he's got, he's got so many dogs in him. All of the dogs are in him. He's, can I, can I be vulnerable here? Yes. In terms of why is he not around? one guy part of part of this is because I think he's the type of receiver I've fallen for

like way too hard yeah uh in in the past where he's like a smaller separator um who does win at all three levels but because of the size in the frame like how many quarterbacks really want to take that throw like maybe there's a little bit of like Elijah Moore scarring here uh honestly because I think he's of the Andy Isabella no he's not okay I don't put me into Andy Isabella fan club here but no I think I think with Kyle Williams, he does come from a lower level. That's part of it too. You know, he's not quite like these guys that have only lined up on one side of the field at one outside receiver position like 70 plus percent of their snaps in reception. It's actually like a long list of red flags there. He's not quite in that bucket. So he does miss that for me, but it was pretty close. I think he's just a guy that can play all three receiver positions. He can make plays after the catch. He beats man coverage. So yeah, it's hard to find a lot of flaws. I don't see. I don't see the flaws. I guess he's not,

he doesn't have the size or whatever, but if you're, if I needed to pick one player from this class that, that would like make pro bowls. That has a, you know, I think that that isn't going to get taken in these top. I don't really seem that far apart from,

from T-Mack or Golden. To me, he's right there for me personally because I just, I don't know, man. And I like to celebrate, like he just, he just seems like an NFL player to me.

I just, He seems like a, like, receiver smart is the word I would use where he knows how to do everything. And he's super explosive. Like he's a home run hitter and he can hit some doubles too. I don't know, little Washington State Kyle Williams for you. Go coogs. Like, to me, he's not that different than Jameson Williams as a prospect, who I probably overrated too.

Maybe I'm like you. Maybe I'm like you. Okay, maybe that's too much. That's too much. I don't know, I don't see him like outrunning the entire. No, he didn't test that well. He's not, he doesn't have the, like, just pure home run speed like that. but he's got enough of it to me.

The explosion and the separation, like, to put him in that category, I just, I didn't see it to the extent where I watched a little, a little Williams, and then I'm like, wait, let's, let's go on to somebody else. Oh, how dare you. Oh, what a hater. I'm not, I'm not trying to hate. I'm just celebrating the explosion of other guys, because I am biased towards that. Okay, so that, that's Harmon's big group there.

We got to get to the tight ends before we, before. we wrap up. So, so we will. Unless you just have something that you are dying to say about that Matt Harmon just feels like passionately about and have to get in. I just, you put in the work. Oh, you too? I love. Yeah, I love Jack Bash. Dude. The guys, he's a really good player. Um, gets open, catches everything. He's really, he's talking about sneaks up on you have to catch. Like he really breaks a lot of tackles in the open field. Um, maybe a guy that needs to play in the slot because he certainly like, I mean, he's like nine route success rate. his corner route success rate, they just flat out stink.

Like he doesn't get open down the field. That worries me a little going to the end. I mean, but I guess when you're open everywhere else, like just find the right deployment for this player. I think he just makes a lot of sense with the team like Jacksonville that, you know, you've got Liam Cohen there. You're coming from like that Rams organization from the front office perspective. They've just made such good use of this type of receiver.

Like, why can't he just be in the role that Chris Godwin was in for Liam Cohen last year? I think that just makes so much sense. I don't think he has the juice personally. Well, I mean, since we're going to talk tight in at 218 pounds, yeah. Could he fulfill the receiving role that like Evan Ingram? And I understand it was a different offense. I mean, he kind of has.

Yeah. That's the best spot for him. Yeah. Or like not, I was going to see Zach Richards or something. I just, I do worry about him that there's not a lot of team. I think he has a very specific skill set. And I think we've seen guys like him. To me, in terms of that snap and that.

I do worry about him getting open against NFL players, but we'll see. There's a lot of smarter people than me, including you and Jeremiah, love him. And so I hope I'm wrong being a little more down on him. Let's talk about the tight end. There's so many times where a guy goes to Mobile and has that week where it's like, it feels obvious. And then in hindsight, we look back and like, oh, yeah, we should have known after what he did to all those dudes. Obvious in a positive way. Yeah.

Like, why weren't we on board sooner? Well, that's interesting because I would say Kyle Williams and Bech maybe help themselves as much as anyone. So there are two guys that were down in Mobile. And as they say, that's where the NFL draft starts. Let's take one more break. And then we'll wrap up with the tight ends. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin.

And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game. What was that? Oh, my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get.

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Podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Back on NFL Daily, wrapping up with the tight ends. And this is just going to be vibes. Harmon, for some reason, it doesn't do tight ends on reception. I mean, they are receivers, Matt. Okay, can I tell you why?

Because it probably would take too long. Wow. I mean, you spoiled it there. I was going to give you, I was going to give you the door. work reason, which is, you know, I've been charting receivers now for 12 years. I've been doing reception perceptions. So like, okay, I can tell you this player has, you know, is this percentile versus man coverage? Like, this is the type of role, the type of offense, everything that he could play in. You can compare it to the previous years. That's really cool. I like that. Yeah. I mean,

for you've got guys in the database that have been there and there through there, their entire career. Like Mike Evans's entire career is in the reception perception database. You know, if we start over with tight ends. We're going back to square one. I don't know. Right. But how old are you, Herman? You're still a young man. How old are you? Well, and I'm 33. I'll be 34 this year. How long do you plan to be on this business? This leads me to my second point of why I'm not going to do it, which is I'm a happily married man. I'm trying to say a happily married man, buddy. I got enough receivers to do. You know the requests that come in in the reception, Discord? It's like, hey, chart Ricky White out of UNLV. There's too many receivers. I got enough on my plate. Okay. But this is where, you know,

I would never had a chance to work exactly with you. We were both at NFL media at the same time. And it was what a star, Harmon was, a shooting star. And they messed up letting Harmon go from the fantasy department. But, you know, he had a great opportunity. But if I was going to give you advice sort of in a boss role here, I would say like, well, forget Ricky White. You know, Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland, these top guys,

they're more box office than your fourth to seventh round receiver. so maybe just you don't do receiver 23 through 60 and just do like the stars of the tight ends and that would be good for just people's interest people would pay for that that's what I'm saying it sounds like Greg you want to do the tight end shopping we can bring you on a reception potential investor right here I like bringing you back to more our level which is we're not just doing our vibes we watch these guys but we're not breaking it down like Harmon does I do think you should wait Harmon's opinions, no offense, Patrick, more than ours in the previous conversation. But this one, we're on equal footing. We're all even playing. So do you like, I'm going to start with

Patrick then. Because it feels like there's a big two. It feels like there's a big four at tight end this year. But really the two guys, Colston Loveland and Tyler Warren, who Jeremiah again has in the top, I think 10 of his overall players. I'm not sure where Loveland landed there. They feel like the big two. Do you have a favorite between those two? Um, yes, I have a big two, but it's, it's, one of those is not in it. Okay. Tyler Warren is such a mechanized destroyer of worlds that does so many different things. He has to be the TE one.

The explosion is quantified by the tight end, by the combine work, leaps off the screen. So he's my T.E.1. Harold Fanon Jr. Ooh. Is my favorite is one of my favorite players in this draft. The production is off the charts. I have beef with our production score from NGS, which somehow has worn as a, as more productive than Harold Fandon Jr. who literally had more catches at tight end than anybody in the history of college football last year. He is 20 years old.

Shout out to Michael Florio. I'm keeping track of ages here where he will be 21 coming up in July. So he's a full year younger than Colston Loveland. He ran that 4-7 and Indy. Okay. Also 4-7 and Indy, Keenan Allen. When some somebody does things so differently in a different way and they still produce, I think that's unique and unique talent is what you want. I am a Harold Fann & Jr. guy. I love that because going way back to the Combine when we talked with Nate Tice, he is as well and just thinks he's such a unique player. And I actually think bucketing those two guys, Matt, make sense because I sort of don't know fully what to do with him. And I'm with Patrick in the sense that I actually would feel more comfortable probably going drafting fanon ahead of his consensus then i would which would

which would probably be what second round if you really want to make sure you get harold fanon uh then i would bet in the farm on a top 10 pick for tyler warren just because i'm just not sure he's so unique that i'm just not sure is he is he special enough to be like almost different than any tight end out there where he is not to give the Debo comparison again, but he's like tight end Debo. It's like just this guy you got to get the ball to that's got to run people over and

just destroy you. Yeah, that's my thing with Tyler Warren is I do think he's very similar to some of the receivers we talked about where it's like what team and like what offensive coordinator is he playing for? Because I think he's kind of gotten a reputation as he's just a traditional inline tight end who's really good as a blocker.

But I think that's just because he plays in the big 10 and like he's he's like a tough guy, you know, because I think he's more of like a singular design touches type of player. Um, like the positive side of that is that like the Raiders did a lot of work to design things for Brock Bowers last year, which I'm not saying this to take anything away from Bowers. That's because they didn't have anybody else to throw the football. Be careful here. You know, I mean, I, but I just, I'm not, again, I'm not taking anything away from Bowers, but like when a tight end is that much farther, the most productive player

in your team, like most concepts in a playbook don't like run through the tight. end. So I think you just have to take that like extra work to make him Tyler Warren, that is, depending on where he goes. Like the production is worth the squeeze that you're putting into it there. But like if he lands with the team, I mean, you know, like a like a Ben Johnson, right? Like I mean, I think he could really find ways to use him because he's not too dissimilar to Sam Laporta, who I think is another guy that kind of because he comes out of Iowa, he gets this reputation as like a rugged tight end. But you've really had the Lions have had to do a lot to design things for Sam Laporte, and obviously it's been more than worth it for them.

See, if I was a reception, I would be curious how he would, if he was rather, Tyler Warren, I would be curious how he would play out on that, because he seems even more like a burden type, which is just kind of like, hey, run over there and throw it. And I do worry, it's really hard to like evaluate football smarts, for lack of a better word, on the field. But he's such a unique player and it took him so long to get on the field that that worries me a lot. And the people I trust that I've asked around the league are quite low on his blocking. In fact, like, it might be a huge negative. Whereas Colston Loveland, who's lighter and stuff, he just fits more what you see as a tight end. And he kind of fits more of a mold of a guy that like, yeah, he's not much of a blocker

in college, but like we can build him up and we can teach him that. And the want to is all there. And Warren's just such a unique player. And his unique skill is not route running. it's just like, watch out. Here comes Tyler Warren. And it's so unique and it's so awesome that it really might work. So I'm with you. I think the Jets are another interesting spot too because they're going to be running a Lions-type offense

with their coordinator and Tanner-Rankstrom. But if you're asking him to just play tight end, I'm more worried. And that's why I like Loveland more. Because to me, it's like I would take Loveland on 26, 27 teams. And that's where I like, to me, he's like maybe a La Porta, plus even where like I can see the I can see the receiver skills I think he's going to step into the league and be a nice tight end for you right away but I think in his usage at Penn State he was a victim of his ability yeah so where it's like okay well he's our wildcat quarterback not because like we're trying to force feed Tyler Warren but because he's the best and the best athlete best player by far they could put in that position and so he's going to get those volume target opportunities not because like that's how you get him the ball but because he's the best player on the team to do that to where like a few years ago,

like all those plays would have been going to like Sequan, right? Or just like any other good Penn State player, but because it was him, like that's where a large volume of his opportunity came from. But then you see him when he is split out wide, when he is in the slot running a seam, like he teleports away from corners and safeties. Like the explosion is there.

It picks up. You're right. Like to an extent where it's like, he didn't test at all, which is a little bit of, a worry, but, but he's one of two players, at least in this class where I think, well, would Tayson Hill plus really be a bad outcome? Taysom Hill's a pretty useful player. I'd be a little worried, both him and Jalen Milrow, you know, who are very different players. And I think Millrow would be plus plus. But I'm like, actually, Taysam Hill plus plus would be kind of great. I just,

I would be a little worried about taking him like in the top 10 between the rest of the, the tight ends. Harmon, who stands out to you? Who do you like? Who don't you like? Yeah. Terrence Ferguson from Oregon, I think is like a classic like bet on a, you know, bet on an athlete, bet on the traits. And I do think he actually could end up being

really, you know, really productive down the line in his career. Maybe not like right away, but that just seems like the type of tight end who hits. I think he, I like his ball skills. I like just the movement skills for him. And then Mason Taylor from LSU, I know a lot of people really like Mason Taylor. I do as well. He just is, it seems

like a good, like maybe you're not hitting the A plus, like outrageous high upside tight end, but something in like kind of that Zachertsish range where he just catches everything and he becomes a really good complimentary part of your passing game. I think those are the other two guys you got to kind of watch out for. Yeah, a player that was exceedingly productive from the moment he got to LSU to where it feels safer. Like I would say Mason Taylor to me as a safer prospect than than Loveland just in terms of as a past catcher because I know I know I know blocking is important and like yeah ideally these guys are going to be gronk or george kiddle but like none of them are coming into NFL really almost none of yeah so like i i'm evaluating them as past

catchers yeah i i prefer taylor to to love to meet lovelin and i did go back to watch a couple of the june the games before when he had j j j mccarthy as his quarterback which definitely helped uh i think he has a higher ceiling off the bat but i'm with you that in this class where So much feels uncertain. If I'm comparing Mason Taylor to some of these like DL5 guys who it's just like, man, it feels like there's a 50% chance they're going to be total bus. Taylor feels like a first round prospect to me. He feels very much like the tight end, Agbuka, where he's going to be good.

And if the outcome really is Ertz or like closer to Goddard, I mean, that's even better than that. I mean, if you put Goddard back in the draft, like, he's going top 20. Because you can lock in like a plus, if you can lock in a plus starter at any position, especially tight end, I like them a lot too. And there's really differing opinions on Arroyo because that type of player has busted a lot lately, which is like the big like receiver essentially. And yet I'm into him. I don't have them too far behind Taylor. I like these tight ends. I would not, I would not mind taking these tight ends again ahead of like those two guys ahead of wide receiver five, six, seven for me. me. Like I have Kyle Williams up with Golden and stuff. But after that, I think Arroyo is a really good pass catcher. And I'm into it. I would just like when you're playing with the quarterback that's going to go number one overall and you only miss one game, the 35, I'm going to need more production out of them to leave for all these guys. Sorry, Matt. What are you going to say? No, you're good, man. I just think it's a really interesting tight end class as well. And like get these guys in the

room, maybe develop a few of them. Um, I wouldn't be surprised. if there is a couple of guys who are kind of close to those wide receivers here and maybe they end up being more just useful. And the crazy thing is there are wide receivers and probably a tight end or two that we just didn't even talk about and that they're

not only going to be starting within a year or two. They will be like impact big time players and it's just we don't have all the time in the world but it was great to talk to you, Matt Harmon. Here's what we're going to do. I'm making a I mean it's more of a threat than a promise

because, you know, newsflash. Not everyone, like, loves going on other people's podcasts. It's ultimately, like, other, it's more work. And I'm going to try to get you to do more work. And it's going to be a podcast that's not just about wide receivers next time. There it is. All right. I will take you up on that.

And we'll see. I might just end up sneaking in wide receiver talk anyways. I mean, it's not like we can't talk about it. Maybe it'll be like workout tips. We're deep into the last season. We can talk about, we can talk about, you know, egg quality. all kinds of things, man. So, uh, no, it was good.

It was good to see you both. I'm going to be out in LA next week for our Yahoo Sports live draft show. So I hope to see you both. Uh, yeah. I would normally say like we should get you in here, but you're going to be busy. So everyone check them out, uh, at Yahoo. We're going to be here in the studio on draft night. By the way, Patrick, I don't know if I've mentioned that.

I have to you. Shout out to that. No, we, we've talked about it to, to the listeners. Uh, that's it for today's show. We are back. So this is actually going to be the last NFL daily. you hear for a few days because we have a 40s in free agents with Daniel Jeremiah that's going to drop on Thursday. Then we're back with another 40s and free agents. That's going to go

Monday morning and then we're off every single day next week to cover the NFL draft. And yeah, when Matt Harmon's lugging around that gallon water bottle, football's back. Welcome to NFL Daily where we, oh wait, do that again. I f*** it up. Daniel Jeremiah here. And I'm Bucky Brooks. On Move the Six, we take you inside the game from breaking down college prospects and NFL rookies to evaluating team building philosophies, coaching trends, and how front offices construct winning rosters. We study the tape, talk to decision makers, and give you a perspective you won't find anywhere else. It's everything you need to understand the why behind what happens on Sundays. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Sticks podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL fantasy football podcast.

Ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Then you need the NFL fantasy football podcast, your ultimate source for player news, draft tips, and winning strategies. Whether you're a rookie manager or a fantasy vet. We've got the insight to help you crush your opponents. Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the IHeart Radio Out. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL, visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more.

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