NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal - Winners and Losers of Training Camp

Episode Date: August 7, 2017

A room filled with heroes – Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling, & Gregg Rosenthal – recap all the latest news from around the NFL including the Dolphins picking up Jay Cutler and Anquan Boldin singing with the Bills. The heroes debate who has won and lost training camp thus far this season including Tom Savage, Colin Kaepernick and Cam Newton.Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comNFL Daily YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nflpodcastsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The Around the NFL podcast. 60% G, 25% of the time. Welcome back to another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. My name is Dan Hansis, and I am joined by a room filled with some heroes. Chris Wessling to my left. Greg Rosenthal to my right. What's up, boys?

Hey, Dan. Welcome back, Wes. Thank you. Good to have you in the big chair. Well, it's the same size chair As the rest of the chairs, but you leave a big... It's a power chair, though.

Big shadow. According to the Mike and the Mad Dog 30 for 30, which I finally watched, you know, you want to be facing the controller. You got to face the controller. So I'm in the weak chair. Whatever that is, the weakest chair. Penalty box.

You're in the Mad Dog chair. Yes, we're back together for another week of shows. Saturday night was the big Shield celebration gala at Cessler Manor. Is that why Mark's not here today? I don't know. He seemed to be okay on text yesterday, but maybe he's still in recovery after what was a... It got a little wild at Sessler Matter.

I was the lone voice of sobriety. I do not like this turn of events. Yeah, at one point, Wes was just like, this is all different being the only sober one here. Y'all are funny. I get that. I get how that would be kind of a weird scene. But, yeah, it was a good time.

and, you know, possibly, you know, a nice way to close a chapter of that book in my life. I like how you're letting this. You're going to let this linger on all offseason. Well, you're really stoking the uncertainty. I did, you know, I used some of my intrepid reporter skills to ask some questions during the party. No, to you. Well, you were the main source. But, you know, he was playing it on the fence.

Not sure what's going to happen next year. On that fence, on that fence. Today's edition of the Around the NFL podcast. Do I have to say it's sponsored by New Era at the top? Yes, every time. Okay. Today's edition of the Around the NFL podcast, presented, of course, by New Era. A lot of stuff to get to.

Jay Cutler's back in the NFL. How about that? And you know what? I'm not going to lie. I missed him. Really? I feel I like it better that he's back involved. It's back in the mix.

And we'll get into that and what that means down in Miami. me, we will also now, training camp is about, you know, almost two weeks old, a couple, you know, a couple of days old for the Lions. So kind of spinning out of a Greg Rosenthal piece on NFL.com, the winners and losers of training camp so far. And hey, Lions fans that are coming at me upset that Detroit's on my radar, hey, just get to camp early. And if you can't get to camp, Greg, I know this one gets on your radar. Yeah. You know, get the team together in a local park in Auburn Hills, throw the football

around, stay loose, run some sprints, you know. Now, have you actually checked to see if Matthew Stafford got some of his receivers together or not? I have two sources on that so far, but I'm not ready to go live without reporting yet. So anyway, winners and losers of training camp, hitting all the news. And that's the show today before we get going. Hi, Sully. How are you, buddy? Good. How are you guys doing? That was your weekend. It was good. Lazy, relaxing.

Yeah. It was nice. I needed one after a big weekend, two weekends ago. Okay. Well, let's keep that appropriately mysterious. Yes. What happened two weekends ago was Sean Sullivan. We may never know. Let's do some news.

No more cleats. I'm moving on to smoke meats, fellas. Oh, yes. The dulcetones of Vince Wolfberg. We'll get to him in a little bit, but let's start with Cutler. who agreed and is now officially signed a one-year contract with the Miami Dolphins, the 34-year-old, who was all set to take a nice cushy broadcasting gig with Fox instead in the fallout following the Ryan Tannahill setback with his left knee,

is now joining the Dolphins. Rapsheet had reported this on Sunday and now on Monday. It's a deal. It's $10 million with incentives. I think it can get up to about $13 million if he hits incentives. And I'll tell you what, Chris Wessel, like I said, Jay Cutler back in the league, and I kind of missed the guy, and he wasn't even really gone. Well, we went from one guy who almost changed the Dalton scale to the Tanna scale

to another guy who's been talked about in this room as the median of all NFL quarterbacks. Right in the middle, Jake Cutler is reviled by many people, probably a little unfairly, and over-celebrated by a lot of people. Oh. But he's a very average NFL. Is that a shot at me? Who's he over celebrated by other than me? Of course, by you.

Well, Damasek predicted he was going to be MVP two or three years ago. I never did that. I never did that. Let's hear what Jay Cutler had to say when he was asked about, you know, why, you know, how hard a decision it was to come out of retirement. It was hard. It was hard. It was definitely hard. You know, like you said, the last four months, I've been in a different mode, different mindset, getting ready for the Fox Steel.

And it was really, you know, pretty good with where I was in my life. I was around the kids a lot, and, you know, felt pretty content. So, weighed back and forth on this. I mean, I'd probably say my wife, Kristen, probably talked to me into it more than anybody else good. I mean, that is somewhat worrisome if you're a Dolphins fan, that it was back and forth over the weekend. You know, you want someone that's going to be really committed and ready for it.

And, you know, the body language experts were out on Twitter, having fun a little bit with Jay Cutler, who looked about as relaxing. and cool as he possibly could be. He seemed in a great mood. He actually had a lot of... He had some jokes. I think that Adam Gase sold them because he knows Adam Gase is the best coordinator for him

that he maybe ever had. Maybe Mike Shanahan as a head coach earlier in his career. I don't think he would have come back in any other situation. And I think he sees this with Adam Gase for a chance. If I'm going to be with Adam Gase, we can make this work. And it actually can be pretty great with all the web. I think you nailed it. This is the perfect storm for Cutler. I don't think he would have come out of

retirement for any other job. I think it had to be Adam Gase. It had to be a Dolphins team with more offensive talent than they've had around them in a long time. You know what's funny, Wes? I thought the same thing, too, on Friday, actually, when it was starting to look imminent that he was going to end up in Miami. I tweeted that this could not have worked out better for Jay Cutler. He nailed this. And Rapshie kind of came at me and was like, well, he didn't have any other offers. And then I said, well, was he really looking hard for a job? And then rap sheet said yes.

So apparently he really was trying to get onto a team. And nobody wanted him. The Jets wouldn't even return his call. What does that tell you? But the fact that things all ended up working out in his favor, this is the ideal situation he could have picked. It's just the way things worked out. The football gods smiled down on Jay once more.

I, for one, am very happy that he is no longer being blackballed. Oh. Yeah, people, people. Trying to compare Kaepernick and Cutler in this situation, it's a tough comparison because Cutler has the year with Gase. I think the Dolphins, first of all, are more interesting with Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler, this is a fun story. The NFL is more interesting with Jay Cutler.

As much grief as you want to give him, he certainly makes some mistakes. He's a fun player to watch. If you just made a top 20, you know, best throws, If you made a top 20 best throws of Jay Cutler's career, it's up there with any top 20. If you're a defensive back, he's a fun quarterback to walk. Okay, but he was different under Gase really in 2015. He was controlled. He had fewer interceptions than he's ever had.

He was over-celebrated. He was a little over-celebrated, but they had so many injuries. That's why people got excited that his stats were actually about as good as they ever were for him, despite an awful group of players around him that were hurt. I think the Dolphins might be a better team with Jay Cutler than they were with Ryan Tannahill. Maybe you don't have the hope that Ryan Tannahill turns into someone else that he hasn't really been in his career. That hope is gone. You kind of know who Jay Cutler is.

But you might actually be better. This is not a, hey, we lost our starting quarterback. Now the season's over. To me, they were a mediocre looking team beforehand, one that if things break right, could make the playoffs. And they are the same team today with Jay Cutler. I think you could argue their ceiling's higher because of Cutler's a better quarter. He's a more gifted quarterback than Tannahill, especially in armed talent.

But he's also, if this season starts to go sideways, you're talking about a guy who had to be convinced to play football. He's not going to want to answer to anyone. He'll be, it's a one-year deal, so they didn't over, the money's pretty nice, but they can get out of it and have Matt Moore in there and have Jay selling on the sidelines if it comes to that. One, he has to stay healthy, too. He hasn't practiced all offseason. By the way, pass rating, some people put, you know, not too much into that.

But he had a 92 pass rating with Gays in that season, which is not too far above the league average. So it wasn't like he was tremendous. Like right at the league. It was the best of his career, though, I believe. But here's the last question before we move on. Hey, Jay, are you a good football shape right now? Well, the good thing is I play quarterback, so I don't really have to be in that great of cardiovascular shape. I can't wait.

I cannot wait. He's got big laughs. He's joking around. I mean, he's having fun. He's so excited about this guy. He was also very engaging in that press conference. I thought he was unfairly maligned for his press conference. It didn't matter what he would have done.

He was going to get killed just because it's fun to make. And that's part of the fun of Jay Cutler being the league. You get to make fun of Jay Cutler and he doesn't care. And I'll tell you what, now that he's back in the league, he once again takes the mantle, best hair of any quarterback in football. Very good hair. And before we move on, I just want to put it out there. Yes, it's most likely a one-year thing.

But if you're Ryan Tannahill, I feel like the starting quarterback job of the Dolphins is no longer yours. It's out of your hands. If Jay Cutler plays great this season, not saying that's going to happen. Well, let's say they just go to the playoffs. He plays well this season. He's played a lot more games with Adam Gase. It could turn into more than one year. Whether Cutler plays well or not, his contract, Tannahill next year, is going to be $20 million.

They're going to have to have a decision to make whether they want to possibly trade him, whether they can really trust him or whether they bring in competition, whether it's Cutler or a rookie or something like that, that is sort of out of his hands. Ryan Tano's turning 30 years old next year. He's not a young player anymore. So you're saying he no longer controls his own destiny. By the way, we still don't know his season's over.

But it's certainly everything is trending in that direction and giving Jay Cutler this much money when you had a backup that you seemingly liked and Matt Moore really speaks volume. So we'll see what happens. Jay, welcome back to the family moving on. just when things couldn't get any more grim for the New York Jets this season or heading into this what will be a lost season, you'd think. Quincy and Noonois, their slated number one wide receiver heading to IR.

Mike Garifolo reported this with a neck injury. He was held out of practices throughout the spring with a neck issue and then it popped up again in their green and white scrimmage on Saturday, a non-contact situation where he went down. Turns out Todd Bowles announces that. he has a bulging disc in the neck, needs surgery. The only upshot here in the silver lining is

is not believed to be one of those neck injuries that's career-threatening. He should be ready in six to nine months. But now the Jets, it's getting grim, guys. I mean, it already was grim. Getting. But no, I'm talking about now I'm really, for the first time, when I saw this gum across Twitter,

I'm a little worried about O and 16. That's how bad it is. Robbie Anderson is now the Jets' number one wide receiver. Christian Hakenberg got basically kicked out of practice yesterday. Mr. Hockenberg is real? For his inability to break a huddle properly and is apparently not shown a lot. Josh McCown, it looks like he's going to end up getting the starting up. Not getting any first team reps, which is surprising Hakenberg.

Yeah, he got a few today, I believe, but still Josh McCown looks like everything is trending toward a situation where the Jets, they're not going to score any points. And with Robbie Anderson at number one, Wes, it's not going to get better after the news today. I've heard of Robbie Anderson. I've never heard of this character, Sharon Peak. He caught a few passes last year. You've pronounced it correctly. Number two receiver. He was in the mix in December.

I was watching those Jets games. He was like he was playing. Yeah, that's in the mix, I guess. I mean, 0 and 16, I think the hot take would be that they might not go 0.16. They should be favored to go. They are less talented than the 2000. 16 Browns, I think. They have good defensive players in their front seven,

and just the way football is, you figure you can luck into about two wins. I would think two and 14 still the over-under. But this is the worst-looking wide receiver group heading into a season that you can remember. Sharon Peak, the number two receiver right now. Darias Stewart, a third round pick this year, is the favorite to be the number three receiver.

He hasn't even practiced fully. They're going to have to bring in a veteran. I honestly don't think you can't go into the season with that group. And Noonois, I feel bad for him. He was entering a contract year, overachieving most fun player on the Jets offense, I would say, to watch, which is a low bar right now. But he was it. Who's the next best player?

Billy Powell. Billy Powell's next. Kind of fun to watch. Yeah, but that's bad. I mean, that says a lot. That says a lot. And here's the other part of it that I've never been less excited. And I've been around a while now.

I've never been less excited about a jet season. than the one we're heading into. There's literally nothing to be excited about except for the draft, which isn't for months and months and months. And the biggest shame of all this now is because of the quarterback situation, because of the lack of playmakers on offense,

now the injuries on top of it. How do you evaluate any of these guys? If this season, at least you can, we'll evaluate what we have in the roster. The line's a mess too, by the way. Like if the rest of the team was good, we would be talking about how bad this offensive line is. If the quarterbacks are bad and the line's bad

and you don't have anybody to throw to. And then it all trickles over to the defense. If the offense is never on the field and the defense is getting gassed week after week after week, how are you going to even get a good look at those guys? There's a lot of young guys on this roster. The Jets are an embarrassment right now. First team coordinator.

First year coordinator, too, John Morton, who's never done it before. I don't think we're just piling on when we say this is one of the worst offenses entering a season on paper, and they can always prove us wrong, we've ever seen. There are no teams that go into a season this bad at so many different

offensive positions. On Twitter, I put it out there over under three and a half. How many games they score more than 14 points a season? Are they going to get the over under on that? I mean, you got special teams. Yeah, I'm going over. Touchdowns. Everybody with you over, a little optimism ending this segment on the Jacks.

Moving on. I'm saying two wins, too. Yeah, well, fuck up. We'll see. Anquam Bolden got a job. He signed a one-year deal. with the Buffalo Bills. So he joins Tyrod Taylor, Sammy Watkins,

and company Peter Schrager of Good Morning Football, first reported this on Monday. The deal is worth up to $4 million. Bold to 37 years old this fall, his 15 and 15 years in the league. Well, I mean, Greg, are we going to get excited about this? I'm happy Anquang Bolden still wants to play and got a job, but is this going to be a signing?

that makes any ripples in the NFL in any retangible way. No, I don't think it will. You know, as someone who loves watching Anquon Bolden play, one of my favorite players of his generation, I would have loved to see him stick around on the waiver wire, and I know he's not getting offers most likely and he wants to play and see if anything better pops up. Yeah, in 2022 in March, when Rapsheet is on Total Access

saying Anquan Bolden is only going to play for a contender, don't believe him. Anquon Bolden is a mercenary who will play for any team. loves football. I think that's one of the reasons why we love watching him play. He loves his job. He wants to play football. Great career, one of the most respected players, but don't believe him when he says he's only going to play for a competitor.

He also, he likes football. He also likes $4 million. It doesn't make you a mercenary. It's like, oh, you could, I could make millions of dollars to squeeze out another season. Yeah. I get it. I get it. But you would think if he had more options, he would sign with a team that isn't on a 17-year playoff drought that

plays in the same division as the Patriots. Tough situation. They're about as thin net receiver as any other team other than the Jets. Zay Jones is a rookie who's number two. So he's going to play a lot for this bill's team. Moving on, the Cleveland Browns, they have an unsteady quarterback situation as well. And Brock Osweiler is going to get the first crack in this QB battle. He is the starter for the team's Thursday preseason opener against the Saints.

Cody Kessel will come in next, followed by Deshaun Kaiser and then Kevin Hogan. and I guess we'll see some snaps. This comes West. Last week, we have it. It's documented. Mark All In on Deshaun Kaiser and the Browns in 2017. Is there anything to read into the fact that Brock Osweiler is starting the first preseason game? Well, I think it's the reminder that if you blink in August,

you miss a changing in the guard and training camp. Last week, Mary Kay Cabot of the plane dealer is saying that DeShon Kaiser is way ahead of every other quarterback in practice. Friday and Saturday, he has bad scrimmages, Cody Kessler is not playing well, and all of a sudden, Brock Osweiler, who's only played with the second team offense, is starting the first preseason game because the other two guys aren't getting it done. Well, one of my takeaways from going to these training camps is I don't trust any of the reporters' evaluations, because I wouldn't trust my own.

I think it's really hard for, I think even the coaches say they have to watch the film of practice before they say anything. There's so much that you don't know watching. So to say, okay, Kaiser's way ahead. Q Jackson said it best. You would love to see one of these guys step up. It's kind of hard when you're splitting snaps four ways. And none of these guys have stepped up.

It was basically what he's saying. And I think they have to be a little disappointed that Kaiser and Kessler have not stood up. And that's the only reason why Brock is playing. We haven't heard from Brock in a little while. Let's see what Brock had to say, a member of the Cleveland Browns now. I could not be more excited to be a Cleveland Brown. I truly mean that. And it really starts with our ownership.

You know, the Haslam family, Jimmy and Dee, they've just created a tremendous culture in this building. And then, you know, Sashi Brown has put a ton of great people in this place. And then, you know, going down to Coach Hugh Jackson and Coach Lee, our quarterback coach, they've made me a way better football player than I've ever been. They coach you hard every single day. They make it black and white as far as in the meetings to what they expect at practice and what they expect in games. I love everything about this place. I love being a brown.

I'm just very thankful to be here. Shut it down, Brock. All right, we get it. I watch this is from an interview with Steve Weish on NFL Network. And I swear the question, he sort of didn't answer the question at all. And he had these sort of these dead, glassy eyes. And it really reminded me of a hostage video. I am being treated very well here.

They feed me breakfast. Is he giving signs like off camera, like riding down? Save me. It's less of a hostage situation than he's one of the most disingenuous athletes. ever heard. And that goes back to his introductory press conference with the Texans when nothing he said was credible. Well, we're so hard on Brock. I'm starting to feel bad. I think this is just how he talks. You know what I mean? He's extreme. I mean, if you remember back to the Super Bowl. He's like a real estate guy. He's a little wooden. When he got benched for Peyton before Super Bowl 50,

and he was getting a lot of credit for how professional he was, the dignity he was carrying himself with being asked about being benched for a week straight. He's got this side of the game down, the polished media front. Isn't it polished if it's not credible at all? It's polished to a sheen, which at a certain point, that starts working against you, for sure. He looks like a ventriloquist dummy guy. Absolutely.

Moving on, other quarterback news, Brock Oswald's former team, the Denver Broncos, they're trying to figure out who's going to be their quarterback. It's a little messy right now because neither Trevor Simeon or Paxton Lynch have really stood out so far. at least that's what their own head coach has been telling people, but they now will start Trevor Simeon and the Broncos preseason opener against the Bears this Thursday. That game will be on NFL Network if you want to sit down on the couch.

Bop opener Bruske and check out the week one Bears preseason game. And Paxton Lynch, he'll start the following week against the 49ers in Santa Clara. Coming from Vance Joseph, Greg, who's going to, start who's going to start week three because that's when we find out probably who's going to be their week one guy the practice reports are that simeon is winning this job by default never good to quote a denver post column over the weekend that that paxton lynch just is not showing any of the growth that they were hoping for it i think it's still very early and the in the games

are going to end up mattering more and i still believe that they would love paxton lynch to be the one that does win the job charles robinson of Yahoo cited a source who watched video of every practice and said Simeon has outplayed Lynch in every single practice, which says a lot more about Lynch than Simeon because by all accounts, Simeon has been pretty average in camp. And he's learning a new offense. I mean, he's a young player who's not, you know,

the most talented quarterback in the league I like him, but he's a third-year player who hasn't started that many games, learning a new offense. So, you know, it's not easy for either of these guys right now. In other news, Jalen Collins, the Falcons Corner has run into trouble once again, Collins, who started Super Bowl 51 for the Falcons who cornerback and was suspended four games for a violation of the performance enhancing substance policy. Last year was hit with a 10-game suspension on Monday to start 2017 for a repeat offense,

the team announced. That means Collins won't be able to practice with the team after the preseason ends, cannot return until November 21st. Wes, is this a big loss for the Atlanta secondary? No, and Thomas Dimitro, their GM, has said twice in the past couple of months, this is the deepest roster he's ever had. And this is another example of it. This is a guy who started in the Super Bowl.

Tom Brady picked on him in the Super Bowl, and he was going to be their fourth quarter quarterback at best. He was not slated to have a big rule at all. But he played very well down the stretch, and I think was one of the reasons that defense played into the Super Bowl. ball played well in the playoffs he got one of these statements from the falcons which i always it's interesting when they do this where the team kind of buried him they were just like we're disappointed in jalen for this happening again so two years in a row that's terrible it's terrible

they can live with him come back to us bra in other news retirement news vince wolferk who uh one of the great nose tackles of his generation won two rings with the patriots uh it finished his career in Houston. He retired on Monday, and he retired in a very 21st century manner via a paid sponsorship with Kingsford, the Grill Company, a video he released on his Twitter feed in which he said he was walking away, leaving the game, but still going to grill or something? I don't know. It was weird. But Vince Wolfirk, 35 years old, former first round pick. Greg, where does he rank for you amongst your favorite Patriots? of the Belichick era.

Well, that's a long, impressive, fun list. Oh, I know, I know. He's up there. I mean, he's certainly one of my favorite defensive players just because of his personality, if nothing else. I mean, unless you're really breaking down the tape, you're not seeing all the good things that Wilford does on a snap-to-snap basis, taking up two blockers, basically shutting down the run.

Early in his career, teams just ran away from him. that's like the best compliment you can possibly have. He is also responsible for the butt fumble on some level. And also, he probably has one of the longest for a non-quarterback gaps between Super Bowl championships, 2004, and then what was it, 2015. So quite a crowd. I don't know, is he hall of fame worthy, Wes? My guess is he'll come just short that he's in that hall of very good range. Just because nose tackles never get the credit that they deserve.

He has a couple, he didn't win it in 2015, I was checking. That was his, unfortunately, he had been some bad timing there, right? Oh, and I thought he had two. Am I crazy? I thought I read that. He left after the Seattle Super Bowl win, didn't he? All right, I'm an idiot. Hey, don't beat yourself up.

It's hard to keep track all these Super Bowl titles. I get it, Greg. I was thinking 2015 season, you're right. He had a couple second team all pros, one first team all pro. generally that's that's probably not quite enough five pro bowls he'll be someone i think that's talked about but probably not into the finalists thing he was most famous for after leaving new england was the hard knocks episode where he showed up wearing the giant overalls uh with nothing else underneath uh which was one of the classic hard knocks moments also wearing that in his retirement

video too same get up yeah he brings it back in that video he also says in that video hanging up cleats but still smoking meats and he wears a hat that just says ribs like i feel like that's a challenge and wes how about that he's famous for this because years ago his wife uh secretly videotaped oh bianca you know before jazelle came along this is one thing people will remember vince wilfork about as well liked and does as much charity work as it as any patriot they were the first couple of the new england patriots um that's all i'm saying dianca hey tell who's a Ted Johnson? Yeah.

Tell Ted Johnson that, too. Oh, yeah. He famously stepped on the wrong toes that way. Do a web search if you want to learn a little bit more about why you do not mess with Vince Wolfwork and his family. But, Wes, Wilfork looks like a man who enjoys ribs. He looks like he knows his way around a smoker. Again, tremendous ribs delivered by you at Saturday at the party.

But do you think perhaps that this man could challenge you to the throne for greatest ribs hooker in America? I will tell you that in the past few months I've made ribs that one person said was the best thing they've ever had in their mouth and Saturday night, Jay Berg said the best meat he's eating in years of any kind I think it's like cornerbacks in the NFL

like you have to, whether you're the best or not you have to have the mindset that you're the best and I don't think Vince Wilfork can outrib me. I like the confidence. In fact, I love the confidence. Well, what West did the other night with, I don't know, there was some brown sugar and you had a new cooking.

Don't give away any of the tips. Wilford could be listening. It was unbelievable and it was so good. The other, a few weeks back, I brought it home for my wife, who was a chef, you know, went to culinary school, and she put the seal of approval just like that. These are unbelievable ribs. And it says a lot about Wes on a party where he could not partake in the ribs. He has the generous heart enough to be.

cooking ribs using up his energy all day to cook for the rest of us. That's a lot about the name. Putting a positive spin on it, but I mean, in all honesty, I enjoy doing it. And in the past few months, I haven't had many weekends where I can get out and do something I enjoy, but it's a good way to spend the day. If you love what you do, and for West, that means cooking ribs, it will take you a long way. Vince, can you say you love them that much? The way he dances while he's smoking.

I think he loves them. Let's move on. check in on the uh a certain battle that the old zeus has been tracking down in tampa roberto iguio against nick folk um quick run down here on friday iguio goes off and practice makes everything dirt cutter saying oh we had to sit down to come to jesus meeting about uh hey hey just go out there and have fun and and iguio was telling the media hey i was thinking about it all wrong last year i was too stressed out i just got to let the game come to me if only they he had said that last Have fun.

Yeah. Never would have happened. Meanwhile, Nikki Folk missed some kicks late last week. Monday, you've got to be thinking, Cutter's thinking to himself, I think this is going to be settled. I think Robbie's figured it out because now the game's coming to him easily. He's just having fun out there like a kid.

And what does he do? He yacks it up on Monday. Both folk and Aguayo missed kicks on the skinny field goal post. Folk clanged going off the left, right. This is all according to Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times. Aguio missed wide right. they both then missed on regulation goalposts. Aguayo hooking a kick badly to the left.

And then finally, Aguio made one from about 50 yards out. That folk then missed. And then Dirk cutter, I'll say this about Dirk cutter, the Bucks coach. He is leaning into this. He is sucked in as I am in this. Instead of like being a little like, you know, having a little bit of a poker face going on, he lives and dies by every Buc's practice talking about it. He loves talking about this.

For the skinny goalpost is a great move. Yeah. For the competition, you've got to go to the skinny goalpost. Here's his quote. This is how pumped up Cutter is about this thing. Asked about the practice of the two men. Not too good, not too good. It's one day on, one day off.

Whatever they ate for breakfast today, off the menu. Because that wasn't it. Neither of them was very good today. It's a simple process, okay? You're a kicker in the NFL. Inside 50 yards, you've got to make your kicks. And I'm not being a hard ass or anything. That's just what it is in this league.

They know it. I know it. Everyone here knows it. folk so you guys are aware of the stakes here right like the coach is watching and everything guys such an unforgiving position in sports when you listen to iguio late last week i got the sense like he was 98% convinced of what he was saying and there was a two percent doubt in his mind that he He wasn't, he's not willing to go to that dark place, but it's there. And finally, Ardenox starts by the way this week.

Yeah. Prediction, Dirk Cotter is going to be a sneaky star here. We're going to like Dirk Cotter more than we expect. It's a return engagement for Cotter. He was involved with the Falcon season, which is not very memorable. Gets another shot here. Finally, the pro football Hall of Fame held their induction ceremony over the weekend. Such luminaries inducted included Ladanian Thomas.

Jason Taylor, Jerry Jones, Terrell Davis, Kurt Warner, Morton Anderson got in. Good for you, Morton. Who else? Am I missing anyone? Kenny Easley. Taylor, did you say? I said Taylor. So it was a celebrate.

Let's hear a little bit, by the way, Wes, you mentioned this in our little pre-prod meeting. Kurt Warner talking about his journey and called out somebody that maybe wouldn't have expected to hear. his name at a Hall of Fame induction speech. But I would like to recognize one teammate who had a more profound impact on me than any other, Trent Green. Give it up, guys. Jesus.

You know, our pass crossed in the most incredible of ways, and I acknowledge you could easily be the one standing up here tonight. But the class that you showed while dealing with the toughest of situations is etched in my mind. Your willingness to share your football secrets so I could succeed was incredibly valuable. But the character you displayed

and the way you modeled the definition of teammate was priceless. I should have preface that by saying what the backstory is. I guess it's football lore at this point, but if you don't know if you're a younger fan, Trent Green was supposed to be the starter for the St. Louis Rams in the 1999 season, blew out

his ACL in the middle of the preseason. Dick Vermeal gave his famous press conference in which he said the team will rally around Kurt Warner, who was and an arena league football quarterback who then went on to have one of the great seasons all time by a quarterback. That entire offense became known as the greatest show on Turf West. But Trent Green getting the shot out there, any other takeaways from that or the rest of the ceremony? Yeah, the takeaway for me, I mean, Kurt Warner is being self-deprecating there to a pretty large degree. But it just drives home the point how many Hall of Famers are in the Hall of Fame because of surrounding talent, scheme,

coaching, landing in the exact right place. Trent Green, the next year, started five games when Kurt Warner was injured and had a higher passer rating than Kurt Warner. He could have been statistically one of the best quarterbacks of that generation had he stayed healthy, not blown out his ACL, and thrown past the Tori Holt, Isaac Bruce, Azahir Akim, and Mike Martz's offense. I mean, heck, he started to, you know, roll up 4,500-yard seasons at a time when there wasn't as many passing yards in Kansas City.

So you're right. He could have done great there. I like the Hall of Fame induction ceremony. You know, it's kind of an event. You got to really be into football, I think, to sit and watch and really get into. But if you love football, I think it's a great event. But I do think they have lost the plot with how long it is. It's outrageous how long the speeches are.

And I don't know how you fix that because you want everyone to get their time in. and thank everyone they want. But it was over four hours. I think the average almost, it was close to an average of 30 minutes of speech. And even comparing it to some of the ceremonies, I'm thinking of one that I went to and I covered it for a long time.

It's almost double the ceremony right now than what it was six or seven years ago. They were doing 15 to 20 minutes speeches. You know, maybe one guy would really go crazy. You know, Jerry Jones, who was great, had one of the best ones I thought, the night. We did 36 minutes, you know, and a lot over 30 minutes. And so maybe it's just an event for all the people there, and that's fine.

But it's not, I don't know, it's not a TV event when it's four and a half hours. That's fair. They got to tighten that up. By the way, Jane Slater report on NFL Network, I think I heard this correctly, that Jerry Jones's Friday night party the night before the induction cost the team or cost the owner $15 million? I did a triple take and had to ask if million was the right word there. $15 million party. That's a Bacchanalia. How about...

Justin Timberlake played, so maybe that's costing what a couple million right there? I don't know. How about you just get a DJ to play Justin Timberlake? Throw a $1 million party and then give $14 million to some of the underprivileged youth of Dallas area. It is a little, like, disgusting. Just an option, another option. It's a little much. Jones thanked Jerry, Jimmy Johnson. That was a notable moment. I thought the Chargers fans who

showed up booing Dean Spanos when Lladenian Tomlinson, you know, thanks Spanos, Lidane and Tomlinson had a great speech, but that stuck in my head as kind of a memorable, real, real thing that actually happened. Morton Anderson was great. I mean, just to hear his story, came here as an exchange student for eight months, and they just were like, hey, let's put the foreign kid out there, you know, just to live. live here for like seven months and make fun of him for no never left no let's put the foreign kid out there he must be good at at kicking and then he's in the hall of fame 20 years later well guys who are the age of of me and mark cessler remember when most of the very old most of the good kickers

in the league in the late 70s and early 80s were born outside the united states because they were the only soccer style kickers these guys are so confused they weren't even wearing two shoes it was just a whole whole thing going on back in the 70s and 80s uh that's what's happening in the news new era oh yeah Wes is wearing a new era hat today because he's his head he's got a bald head and it's cold there is a wind chill in this building

it's freezing in this place because of people like you just complained and complain no first of all come on get it together the air conditioning here was broken for two years NFL media it's like a

I liked it what is this a how many billion dollars 15 billion dollar company and finally they fixed it they airlifted in a new air conditioning unit so now instead of it being 80 degrees in the new air conditioning unit so now instead of it being 80 degrees in the newsroom.

How literal. It's, you know, 63 degrees. Layer up. That's just, that's not even a hot take. Now I'm the bad guy. They airlifted the air conditioning.

They did. There's a crane or something. New Era's. Like a Mitch Headberg joke. New Era's NFL training collection has a great combination of innovative performance and style with features like UV protection

because you could always layer up. That's what I was saying to Greg. Greg has been complaining about this all day. When you're cold, you can layer up. Yeah, but you don't want to be at your workplace freezing. What's fun is that? If you're hot, you can't. Hey, what are you going to do?

But when you go outside, it's 85 degrees, so then you're wearing your sweatshirt and it's, you know, none of it makes sense. Moisture wicking and cooling technology. There's no reason you shouldn't make the new era NFL training collection a part of your daily attire. Available at retailers like lids, NFL shop.com, and yep, Dick's sporting goods in your favorite team. I got to tell you, I like this hat. It's a buck's hat that Wes is wearing That's the other interesting tidbit here Nice angle

Well is this the first hat that Sully took out of the box The Great Holy War And Hard Knocks is this week A little tip of the cap to Hart Knox It's a great holy wear Between Wes Team Winston And Greg, Team Marriota

For the future of the NFL So flip those Yeah yeah Is that what I had it the other way? Yeah Greg's team Winston My bad Anyway You are Wes

It's kind of a subversive move by you And also, I loathe the Buccaneers uniforms, especially the rogue uniforms, which are vomit-inducing literally when you have a hangover. The digital alarm clock uniform. But this hat looks sharp. I kind of like the red. It goes good with the white shirt here. If you don't want it, I'll take it home. My daughter, Alice, strangely, likes the Buccaneers.

I think she just likes the logo, the Pirates. I don't want to be taking clothing out of your daughter's pocket, but I might need this the rest of the day. Guys, there's literally 500 hats in the closet behind Sully that we have to figure out what to do with them. All right. Winners and losers of training camp ellipsies so far. Now, hey, who can you make any type of judgment like that? The boots aren't on the ground. How would you know what?

Hey, you never played the game. Whatever. You know, get over yourself. Who was that? an impression of that society okay that's the that's the football cognizanti coming at us a little bit sometimes that's more like the average idiot on Twitter yeah that's what it is um but we we watch things on television we read things on the internet and from that we make judgment calls and that's that's the basis of gregg's debrief i mean people lose jobs people get jobs seasons end seasons begins

signings happen all these things are happening Greg has his eyes he's been at a couple practices he's seen things that have been become part of his debrief but anyway so winners and losers so let's go around the horn here a couple times through Greg let's start with you buddy

because yes you could check it out at nfl.com slash debrief debrief your weekly column give me a winner or a loser whatever you want to start with let's start with with a couple of losers.

Well, that just sounds so hard. Because the number one... A couple total waste stones. That's what I'm getting at. Because the number one overall picks in the 2011 and 2012 draft are two of my very favorite players in the NFL to watch. And yet the fact that Cam Newton has not thrown a football in practice for eight straight days now,

to me has been a strangely underprivile. played storyline. Everyone there says, oh, it's fine. It's no big deal. Cam Newton started camp with absolutely no restrictions, practiced for four days, and now has been out for eight days since. He didn't practice all off season. They're trying to change their whole offensive identity. One of the key pieces for that offensive identity is Curtis Samuel, a second round pick, who, by the way, got injured on the very first day of training camp and has not practiced one day since. So the Panthers in general and this whole transition with Cam Newton, to me, I think you should

be worried because, okay, maybe he'll come back in a week and everything will be smooth sailing after that and maybe I'm wrong. But a shoulder surgery is a really serious thing. And I think this last week points out that it's not always going to be a smooth road back. And they're missing a lot of really valuable time installing the offense. And I think if you're a Colts fan with Andrew Luck, you entered. training camp not knowing anything and you know even less now he has not been close to practicing and we're two weeks in the fact that luck he a complete mystery and you wrote about it in your column that

you know just the fact you know Pagano was trying to take positives out of the fact that he was merely on the sideline watching his teammates over the weekend as some side a minor sign of progress just shows how much in the fog they are right now it seems about what this guy's going to be able to give to him you're right both both those cases the shoulder thing it's scary Yeah, if you're a cold spanned and you want to look on the optimistic side that their general manager, Chris Ballard, continues to say... What's your favorite type of frogs? That guy.

Continues to insist that luck will be ready for week one. Well, he... You had to parse his words a little. He said he won't be on Pup list, that they're not going to do that. I don't know if that's saying he's going to be ready for week one. I think he's... Start practicing those soon? Right.

I think that's just saying we're not putting him on the Pup list, so that would indicate they think he'll be ready in the first five weeks. for sure. I don't know. Yeah, you would think you would need to start practice. And I think Cam's injury points out, okay, just because you return to practice

doesn't mean you're ready to play or that you're going to have the same arm strength or, you know, a lot of people watching Cam Newton's practice that he wasn't throwing deep yet. It's just, it's a worrisome factor for two teams kind of up in the air right now. Still, today's August 7th. So you don't want to go crazy.

But if luck and Newton, well, Newton, yeah, it would be equally a long. if Newton was out for another week after this. But they have to probably start getting in the mix by mid-heading into late August to have a shot to start week one. But we'll see. Because you don't just want Cam Newton back. You want Cam Newton playing as well as Cam Newton can.

You know, like ineffective Cam Newton is not going to be fun to watch either if he's back for week one. Why does Kelvin Benjamin, by the way, have wobbly legs? Is that a medical term? He did not participate in the fan fest or some of the team drills and they said he had a couple days of wobbly legs. You're a horse. They shoot you.

I don't like to set it. West, give me a winner or maybe a winner. Yeah. Sorry for starting negative. It's all right. Counterbalance that? Here's one that is not in Greg's article, and I don't think a lot of people are talking about it.

Kirk Cousins. In March, everybody assumed he's going to have a down year because Deshaun Jackson and Pierre Garcone, two established receivers, 2,000-yard guys, leave the organization. I think the guys they have now, even though they're younger, and the floor is lower,

the ceiling is higher. I think Terrell Pryor is showing that he's going to be a real number one receiver, a pro bowl type of guy. Josh Doxon just came down with day-to-day hamstring, but has been making plays in training camp. And, you know, all this talk about James and Crowder in the off-season, he might be their number three guy,

because Doxon is a first-round draft pick, very talented. And Terrell Pryor, I think, is ready to make. that leap to Proble. So I think Kirk Cousins is in great shape. I should have, this is why I should consult with West before I do these winners and losers columns. Should have put

that in there. What about Sean McVeigh? Not being around. Bother you at all? It's a fair point because I really think he's a smart guy, but that's, I mean, that's Jake Gruden's offense. You read, there's always this Jerry Brewer column in the Washington Post on prior and after reading that, I don't know, I was convinced kind of what you're saying, that he is

ready to take another step. We forget that this guy can get a lot better. And again what do we not know why did not why did the cleveland say let's let's get out of this investment now well they offered him eight million dollars a year well you've been hinting for a year that there's a lot of smoke there so there's got to be some fire right i i can't say you know triple sources yeah this isn't source but you this is more your instincts here no i actually know it's beyond that it's beyond that i really would love to know what actually spook the brown some really aggressive if this guy is going

to break out the way you think could happen this year it's remarkable that the Browns will let him get away. But we'll see. We'll see. Let's see. Where I want to go? Okay. Let's do another winner.

You brought a trail prior. I'll throw out Nelson Aguilar. And this guy is getting a lot of pop right now. I like, Cessler said something I liked on the Friday show. So I'm going to borrow a Cesslerism here. Wishcast. Is it a little bit wishcasting by the Eagles now? and we're going to get to a DJ reported as well in a second,

but that based on the strong spring practices and before we even get to the preseason, this idea now that he's going to potentially just now make this leap and become the guy that they've been waiting for three years, basically, for him to become. So winner in the sense that everybody seems to think Nelson Aguilar is now going to be a hot shot this season, but also a little dollop of skepticism on my part. I want to see him actually playing some games and making some plays against opponents. And I'd say DJ, Daniel Jeremiah. I'm not going to be ignored, Dan.

Is a winner because he makes the comment on, apparently as a podcast on this network. But he said, the moving sticks podcast. Moving the sticks podcast. Moving in with the sticks. He's podcast with Bucky Brooks. Hey, sticks, come on in. Anyway, he said that he was a certain.

that Nelson was going to get some Nelson Agar was going to get some a workout in the slot what does that mean for Jordan Matthews and then Matthews start sniping a DJ a little bit and DJ is too nice a guy to go back clap back at Jordan Matthews

and I won't do it on his behalf but I'll say Jordan Matthews being ultra-sensitive about it DJ very plugged into the Eagles Eagles wanted DJ bad to get to work with them you used to work in that building he probably knows he's talking about this case well two things on this agilars since all this came out

keeps separating from defensive backs better than any receiver on the eagles roster and also is starting to drop the ball again but but his one telling thing and this is on monday they asked uh the offensive coordinator about it and he he essentially admitted well yeah our plans are going to be a little different in the slot well yeah they're they're not saying it you know and they're saying everything is a competition right now they were asking well what about jordan matthes he's everything's a competition now. So now, you know, they're coming out publicly and more or less confirming what DJ said.

Well, then while we're on it, let's throw Jordan Matthews into the losers. Yeah. Because they're turning him into the Michael Kendrix of the offensive side of the ball. What's his role? Well, I think his role might be getting traded. Oh, no. Is Jordan Matthews about to become the number one wide receiver of the Jets for like third round? Or the Texans.

The Bills were another one that came to mind. The Texans could really use a... could really use a receiver. And I think that could be a fit. I mean, they got Braxton Miller. Yeah, but if you think about, if you go through team by team, who needs a slot receiver?

And there are not many teams at all. Texans, though. But Baxter Miller's a slot receiver. That's where he's been training since they drafted it. But is he, between him and Jalen Strong. I mean, that is a bad two, three combo, I feel like. It's just throwing out there. Wes, I mean, Greg, you're up.

Well, and I did want to stick up for DJ, by the way, quickly. You know, because he took a, he went after him for his mock draft accuracy. Oh, right, right. And, you know, while researching for this winners and losers, I found some random Eagles article that was like, well, actually, and they went through DJs, apparently they score the mock drafts for accuracy. And they showed them, they were like, actually DJ's been performing at a very high level

for four straight years. Sorry, Jordan Matthews. You got banged. All right, very good. All right, you're up, Greg. I'm going to give another winner, one that wasn't in the column, you know, just a little, extra here for our podcast list. Hey, hey, bro.

That's how you distribute content. Jimmy Graham has not been talked about much on this podcast for a long time, but I thought it was really telling that Pete Carroll said how limited he was in terms of what they could do with him in practice last year, that they were careful with him because he was coming back from that surgery. And yet he was still pretty effective on the field. And from the reports at Seahawks training camp, the fact he's down 15 to 20 pounds, and people just saying that he's looking really.

really good, and he's a full go, practicing fully every day. I feel good about Jimmy Graham if you're drafting in fantasy leagues. I like a little Jimmy Graham comeback this year. The coolest thing about Jimmy Graham is that some days in training camp, he flies his own plane and lands it right there on the shores of Lake Washington and shows up the training camp like that. What? Yeah, it's kind of a badass.

I didn't know this. Yeah. Oh, you're definitely a winner. You're a winner just for that. That's a baller move. It's true. It's true. Hey, he ruptured his Patel or tendon, which is one of the worst injuries you could have.

He beat the timetable, came back last year, was the same kind of a red zone dude that could do damage, had nice numbers. He makes sense. Now, we talked about that injury a lot. Will we ever get back to being the same type of Jimmy Graham? Unknown, but it seems to be trending in the right direction. Losing weight probably helps that. Wes, give us one. Another guy not on Greg's list.

I didn't think you got you guys would pick off the list. Anyhow. You know, Dirk Cutter likes to brag about how he's doing this whole carrot and stick routine with Doug Martin. Do you know who did the best carrot routine throughout the offseason? Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch with Carlos Hyde comes into shape and the best, comes into camp, the best shape of his life. Everybody's talking about how he's going to lose his job. He's one of the best players on the field in their training camp, and he's in a great offense for his talent. I think Carlos Hyde is going to have a career year of the show.

And not so subtle shot across Greg's bow. Your response, Greg. you know maybe I got some bad information maybe they were putting it out there that he was that he needed to show up to camp you know they were trying to motivate that part of the carrot routine was getting NFL insiders and I'm not taking the L on that

until we're at week one and he hasn't been traded fair who knows maybe they still trade him I don't think that you asked Evan Silva to run with that report either it's fair it's fair he actually did check with me oh okay sure go why not

I'm going to give a loser then a and then kind of a speed round quick winner, and you guys could do one more quick as well. My loser is Colin Kaepernick. We don't need to go into deep, deep dive on this, but he couldn't get the job in Baltimore. In fact, we might see another missive by the Ravens at some point than update on their situation

about whether they've made a decision or not. But you would think at this point, if it hasn't happened yet, it's not going to happen in Baltimore. Miami doesn't look like he was ever really considered because they quickly pounced on Jay Cutler is their guy. I know, Greg, you've talked about the Seahawks, maybe.

I think the Seahawks could make sense. Trevonne Boykin reportedly not playing well at all at Seahawks game. But if it's not the Seahawks, then who is it? He might actually not get a job, which I thought all along he would eventually get a job. But now I would say it's more likely he doesn't. We'll see about that. And then my winner, we kind of brought them up a little earlier. But Tom Savage, I think, is a winner so far.

Because Tom Savage, if I had to guess one guy coming out of, of the draft who was in greatest danger of losing a quarterback competition to a rookie. I would have said it was him with them selecting Deshaun Watson and the amount of hype around that pick and the way ownership is in Houston. I thought that Savage is in a lot of trouble. But apparently, at least heading into the preseason, everyone says that Tom Savage is ahead on the cards. DeAndre Hopkins is all amped up about him, calling him a franchise quarterback.

You could not have asked for a better start to training camp in terms of what people are saying about you and how you're playing, then Tom Savage, who might be real. If the practice reports are right, they've both played well, that Watson has come in and been a little better than expected, and Savage has just had a, is getting better with the competition. All right, Greg, one more. All right. How about a couple losers?

The Bay Area Smith, how about that for connecting two things that don't make any sense? Malcolm Smith signs a big free agent deal in San Francisco, was the one guy that knew that defense that was supposed to help teach it. He's now out for the season. Sean Smith in Oakland, who is guaranteed more than $9 million this year, or he might be on the way out, was demoted to a second-string cornerback,

number four cornerback on the team behind an undrafted rookie and a second-year player, third-year player in T.J. Carey, this is before their first-round pick is even back on the field. They demoted Sean Smith for playing poorly. So if that money wasn't guaranteed, he might be on the way out.

Wes. They've got him playing nickel linebacker. They had him yet. Then the third or fourth thing, they're just like trying to find something for him to do. It's the custodian. This is a good one that is on Greg's list. The 2017 Chargers rookie draft class, you could argue, strong argument, they had the best 2016 rookie class. Joey Boza, Hunter, Henry, Chattavis Brown, kicker, punter.

They fullback, Derek Watt. They had a really impactful draft class. they've already lost their first round pick and what their second or third round pick second round pick from this year's draft this is a very inauspicious beginning for the chargers draft clip very true all right there you go those are the takeaways from the early portion of training camp the preseason kicks off does the hall fame game technically count as a preseason game or a stand-on entity how do they break ties of the preseason standing if you go five and oh you're the champ damn you're the champion what an advantage for uh

America's team. Big, big 2018 win last week. Now looms even larger now that I know it's technically part of the standings. They'll win, even if another team goes undefeated, they win by half a game. We've got to win four more, but yeah. Hey, halfway there, 20% home, baby. Anyway, we'll be back on Wednesday. Oh, yeah, what I'm saying was preseason.

Halfway there, 20% home, baby. Dan Hansis. 39 in a state-mandated. math test it was a 39 and i thought maybe it was unfair to me uh from a cold town uh it was not right uh preseason starts in earnest on thursday that's what i was trying to get to so uh we'll we'll be talking about what we see in those games on friday on wednesday we'll be back hard knocks uh premieres tuesday uh all the other NFL news uh fit to talk about make sure you give us uh check in on the iTunes if you haven't give us the five star ratings the comments we might might

even talk about your comment on this very podcast if it's witty enough or smarmy enough or down right route and you can watch Wednesday show and you can watch Wednesday show of course that's our video show but talk about that one get to it that's it for today this is Dan Hansa signing off for the mailman and the erst wild boss of course is sully behind the glass until Wednesday This is an IHeart podcast.