No Filler Music Podcast - All About The Noise: Catherine Wheel's Chrome

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

On this week's episode, we chat about Catherine Wheel, the band that mixed new wave, grunge, and shoegaze to craft a sound truly their own. We're diving into their second studio album from 1993, "Chrome". Tracklist: Crank Flower To Hide Bill And Ben Broken Head Strange Fruit Ursa Major Space Station The Nude Texture This show is part of the Pantheon Podcast network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Thanks again to Better Help for sponsoring this episode. You know, that genre of music, and I'm loathed to call it to shoegazing, but it was loud rock and roll without the machismo. That's what shoe-gazing was, I think, if it was anything. And it was certainly what we embraced.

I mean, the idea of, you know, having to put your foot on the monitor and pull ridiculously aggressive faces, and pretend that you're something that you're not. We were just, whatever took the emphasis off the individuals in the band was something that was, at the time was something that we embraced. And welcome to No Filler, the music podcast dedicated to sharing the often overlooked hidden gyms that fill the space between the singles on our favorite records.

My name is Quentin. With me as always is my brother Travis. Today we are covering Catherine Weill and their second studio album from 93, Chrome. And didn't take long, dude. We found our way back to Shugays. Well, that's what's interesting about this band, Q. So as the guy was saying in the intro there, the guy being the lead singer, his name is Rob Dickinson in that intro clip that we played,

the Shugays label got thrown on to them. but really the only reason was for the guitar sound. But other than that, I would not call them a classic traditional sounding shoegaze band, but they have shoegays elements to them, which makes them so interesting, because it's really like a mix of shoegays and New Wave and Grunge, all mixed up in one enchilada. So that intro track is called crank, which is track three on Chrome. And yeah, man, that had all the elements of grunge with the distortion and the guitar riffs, everything.

But I guess, so his point really is they're not trying to be a rock and roll band, quote unquote. Yeah, his comment was more like what his take on shoegaze was, like shoe gazing. And he was talking about how it wasn't about the band. And it wasn't about the front man who's up there, like, gyrating and stuff like that. You know what I mean? With leather pants and stuff. Like Van Halen or something. Yeah.

And that's a theme just in general with 90s rock, right? That's what the grunge movement was all about. Like, let's move past all this, like, showmanship that's tied to rock and roll that, like, the 80s was all about, you know, like, let's just get up there with our plaid shirts on. Like, who gives a shit, you know? Yeah. And I'll mention, again, our interview with David Brown, the author of Good by 20th Century, the biography on Sonic Youth.

We spent a lot of time talking about that at the beginning of the show. So, yeah, it was all about trying to make rock real again, right? I think that was the quote. Yeah. And that's exactly it, dude. So here's the thing about this band. Their very first record for Mint, the amount in 1991. and I've got some more interview clips from that interview.

And this was, that interview was like in the 2000s. So it was past the band. The band had already dissolved at that point. So he was kind of, you know, hindsight, right? So he's reflecting back on it and stuff. And like he wasn't, you know, they needed a singer and he just became the singer by default because he was the only one, I guess, that had any sort of singing voice.

Like they, you know, they, they formed in this town in England called Great Yarmouth. And so, like, you know, nobody, it's not like a, you know, a place where, you know, there's just rock and roll singers on every street corner, right? It wasn't a big city or anything like that. So they couldn't find anybody else to sing. So he just sang by default. And so on the first record, his vocals aren't as, like, he's not as confident in his vocals as he, becomes on Chrome. And so his voice was a little bit more subdued, which combined with the guitar work, it sounded like a shoegaze man, but they weren't intending to be a shoegaze man.

So here's a quote from, from Pitchfork. So worth mentioning for Mint was number 23 on Pitchfork's 50 best shoe gaze albums of all time. And here's a quote that kind of spells it out perfectly. This is by Ben Cardew of pitchfork. He says, While they embraced the swirling, distorted guitars and muttered vocals of shoegays, their sound edged towards straight up riff rock at times, with nothing of My Bloody Valentine's deviant experimentalism or slow dives feathery beauty. And that tees up chrome perfectly because...

Yeah, definitely. As he was talking about the singer and all that, Like, they were still trying to find their sound and stuff like that. And, you know, I'm actually going to let him say something here. This is a pretty good quote. So here's another clip of Rob Dickinson. He was interviewed by this publication or this media company called The Lowdown. So here he is talking about their early sound.

I became the singer in the band purely by default because we couldn't really find anyone in our little town to sing. So I sang on the demos and rather genuinely reluctantly kind of became the singer. So I became the singer not wanting to be a rock star or the focal point of the band. We just needed someone to sing the songs with a sound which was intrinsically who had the guitars with the stars in the initial inception of the group. And as we made more records, we became more confident in our songwriting and I became a more confident singer. Now that, to me, guitars were the stars. That's a good way to describe Shugays in a lot of ways, right?

Because what do you think of when you think of shoe gaze? You think of the wall of sound. The relentless wall of sound, yeah. The glide guitar. And the vocals are drowned out in that sound. Exactly, dude. But as he's about to say there, he becomes more confident as a singer. And then Chrome, his vocals are a little bit more front and center.

But before we get to Chrome, I do want to. play a couple of tracks, just the beginning at least, so that you can hear that Shugee sound that was very, very prominent on Ferment before we get to Chrome. Keep in mind, too, that Frement came out the same year that Lovelace came out, and the same year that Nevermind came out. And that's another part of it, too, because Chrome, as we heard with that intro song, Killed Rhythm, starts to sound more like your traditional grunge stuff. That's because, were two years into the grunge movement. But anyway, all right, I'm going to play a song here.

Now, you're going to hear this cue and you're going to say, and that's a Shuegay song. And you wouldn't be wrong. But the singer and the rest of the group didn't really consider themselves a Shuegates band. But as he said, it was all about the guitars. And that's kind of what made it classified as that. But here we go. Here's a song called Flower to Hide off the record, Ferment.

Just a little tease there, Q. Some good shoeguice, dude. Not straight up loveless shoegaze, right? But almost a wall of sound. Right from the second one, it's just that guitar just coming at you loud, right? Like I said, I think last week, I brought the song texture as a what you heard pick. And I was blown away by that. That's the opening track off of Fremant.

But I think we talked about this, and I think you hear it on this. that song too that we just played. I mean, maybe it's just his accent, but like, to me, I'm think, I think of like tears for fears or something like that. The new wave vocal sound. And I think that goes to, to like, again, like, you know, he hadn't found his own voice yet. So I think he was just kind of, these are bands that were, that were fans of. Like, I know there were, his vocals didn't sound like Joy Division at all, but I know that they were fans of Joy Division. They mentioned that a few times in some interviews and stuff that I read. So, like, you know, they were, they were influenced by a new wave in the 80s.

And so it's an interesting, like, mix. So, all right, let's jump down one more track real quick, just to continue to, to give you a vibe of ferment so that you can even more appreciate Chrome. Here's another song. This song is called Bill and Ben. Yeah, it's great. Dude, ferment is a great record as well. But it really, it does have a very different sound.

So that leads us to Chrome Q. So again, that song was called Bill and Ben. Again, guitars front and center. The guitars are the stars, just like you said, right? That's what their goal was for making music. That's what they cared about. They didn't care about, you know, drawing attention to themselves as band members, right? It wasn't about his voice.

It wasn't about a front man or anything like that. Like it was about the guitars, right? Here is one more clip from, you know, that interview before we get into Chrome here. It was all about the noise. It was all about the kind of the kind of sweet cacophony that we could create without having to have the usual paraphernalia of a rock band, which none of us liked. It's all about that sweet cacophony.

Yeah. But I just like that quote. It was all about the noise, right? Yeah. That's another good way to describe shoegays. guitars are the stars and it's all about the noise right so that's what's interesting about katherine wheel is that they had that like the emphasis on guitars and noise but they weren't trying to make you know like this guy from pitchfork was saying earlier like the the more like

you know dreamy quality of shoegaze the shoegaze sometimes has um the feathery beauty of slow dive right yeah or anything like that like this they were a a legit rock band, if you will, but they had, you know, they embraced some of that, like, straight up riff rock. The guitar quality that everybody loves about shoegays, yeah, the riff rock thing. So, yeah, it's more, it's like the shoegaze guitar tone, but more like traditional rock-sounding riffs and stuff. And that's what Chrome is all about. Okay, so let's jump to Chrome here.

So here is another very key part to what made Chrome sound like Chrome. is that they worked with Gil Norton as the producer. And if that sounds familiar to you, he worked with the Pixies. I want to say he did do little in 1989, so a few years prior, right? And we talked about that record. That's, you know, what made the Pixies stand out was kind of like some of that aggression, right? And some of that like heavier sound. It was the aggression, but with like the really classic song structure from like,

like a 60s song structure, but like super aggressive and weird. Yeah. So here is a quote from the bass player at the time of these two records. His name was Dave Hawes. He said, the main thing I remember when going to record Chrome was that we didn't just want to make ferment two. And through continually touring between ferment and going into record Chrome, we had evolved into a harder sounding band. It just seemed a natural process, and so Chrome turned into a harder-sounding album, and I think Gil Norton was the perfect producer for us at that point in time. So there you go. So Gil is definitely part of what makes Chrome sound like Chrome. So here we go. Let's jump right into it here. Chrome had a couple of singles, Crank and Show Me Mary. So yeah, I've got four songs, and we're just

going to jump right into it here, Q, because this record's amazing. And the last song, I'm going to play for us is like one of my all-time favorite songs from the 90s. It has become that for me. Awesome. Let's do it. All right. Here we go. So this song is called Broken Head. I love the cadence of his vocal melodies. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what makes Chrome stand out. Well, Catherine Real stand out, really, is him as a vocalist. You know, and I always think it's interesting when these singers are like, hey, you know, we needed a singer, so I just, whatever, I guess I started singing. And they end up being these like really amazing rock vocalists, right? I always think back to no doubt and Gwen Stefani. Gwen Stefani, yeah. She wasn't the original lead

singer and she just kind of filled in the space when it was vacant. Or like shot A, dude. Shot A was the same. She was one of the background vocalists, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of those. It's just like perfect timing, perfect, all the cards fell. Stars were aligning. Yeah, because if they had formed in London or something, they would have had their pick of singers, you know, and sing. And it wouldn't have been the same, you know. It wouldn't have been Catherine Wheel.

Yeah. Speaking of stars aligning, dude, I love these lyrics. A post-euphoric grin, an astronaut I've been. Astronomic feelings, a face like Luna. That's great. Yeah, and that's something, there's a space theme on this record on a few tracks. And part of me wants to throw the space rock label on them, which we'll talk about that in a few weeks when we do hum, because we've decided we're going to do an episode on

hum, which is another great iconic alt rock band from the 90s. but they had the space rock label on them because of some of the lyrics that they, you know, it really does seem like space rock, you know, aside from the sound, like there was a sound associated with it, but they had to sing about space in some form or another to get that label on them, it seems like. Yeah. And you remember that band spiritualized? Yeah.

I don't remember if we did a full sidetrack on them. I think that was a sidetrack for the Smashing Pumpkins for Gish. They got that label too, and that was all around the same. time early 90s. Yeah. Space rock, neocycadalia, shoegaze. Right. Well, I think all of that is in this record, you know. I think like sonically, it's, it's got like a spacey atmosphere to it. Yeah. I think that that has everything to do with the guitar tone. The guitar tone, yeah, there's usually some amount of distortion, you know, paired with that shoegaze tone. Totally. And that's part of it, too. And that's what makes me think of like cave-in, you know, cave-in antenna, at least.

Antenna, yeah. The sound of that record, you know. Definitely. It's all about the guitars of the stars, you know, as he says. So anyway, all right, let's skip down here to the next track. It's not all grunge or heavier sounding. There's some lighter songs on this record as well. This is one of those songs.

So this song is called Strange Fruit. Have you been all my life? Catherine Weill That was the name of our What You heard episode Q Where has Catherine Wheel been all of our lives? Because yeah

It's one of those bands Where it's like Gosh I don't remember Seeing them on MTV Or like Hearing them on Our local like rock station Maybe they just didn't

Find their way To the States To the US Yeah It's for you know Like some of the bands From the UK Made it big over here as well

Some of them didn't Yeah Or they were just drowned out by Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots and all the bands that were dominating the U.S., especially MTV and stuff like that. Like they just, I'm sure that, you know what, I'm sure they were on, you know, MTV, but yeah, just didn't, they didn't rise to, to get our attention because, you know, you and I were too young. We were only listening to, yeah, really, it's Spencer's, it's our older brother's fault. He didn't listen to them, so it's his fault. But no, we got a healthy dose of pumpkins and pilots and all the bands that we were supposed to be listening to, I think, in the 90s.

We weren't really seeking out music at that time. The music was just coming to us, whatever found its way to our earbuds. Right. Right. That was great, man. I love it. I love the harmonizing. Yeah, harmonizing is great.

His vocals, again, like that to me is what makes this band. Aside from the great guitar work, it's Rob Dickinson as a guitar player, I'm sorry, as a vocalist that does it, you know. Really great. So here's another quote from Pittsburgh here. So like I said, Ferment was number 23 on their 50 best shoe gaze records of all time. Chrome was number nine. So this was top 10 shoe gaze records. Wow.

So they're sticking with that label as far as like throwing it on this record. But, yeah, so as this writer here says, Brad Nelson, for their second album, Catherine Wheel hired the Pixies and throwing music's mastermind, Gild Norton, as a producer. It's a considerably more focused record, both in songwriting and the visibility of his instrumentation. Norton sharpens what ferment intentionally blurred, dragging a whirling shoegaze design around cleaner guitar tones and Rob Dick and. since honeyed vocals.

Every chord on Chrome is a crisp, metallic clang trapped in a halo of hazy and seductive noise, a membrane through which the individual notes branch like nerves. You see, Q, we're not writers. When I was trying to describe space rock earlier, I feel like that's what I was looking for. Crisp, metallic clang trapped in a halo of hazy and seductive noise.

Like you were saying earlier, it's shoe gaze but it's not the traditional like it's not the shoe gaze that my bloody valentine was doing i think it's the like the hypnotic like repetitiveness of loveless style shoegaze that it's lacking like like that like that other um quote that you that you brought earlier it's got the more rock centered riffs straight up riff rock is what that's what he said and that yeah that's what it is It's a band utilizing the shoegay sound, but they're writing, they're not writing shoegay songs, if that makes sense. It's straight up rock songs, but with all the characteristics of the shoegay sound, you know, that's what makes it so awesome, so great. And his vocals aren't buried behind all the noise.

Yeah. You know, I think that's a big part of it, too. That is a big part of it. His vocals are not shoegaze vocals at all. All right. I got two more songs for us. So let's skip. I'm actually, you know, usually we try to play this in order, but I want to save my last pick for last.

So we're going to jump down to track number nine. And here comes that space theme again, dude. This song is called Ursa Major Space Station. Another tasty jam cue. It's not quite grunge. It's not quite shoegaze. Yeah, it flirts. I didn't actually get the very last, I wanted to read this lyric, the very last line of the song.

is let's take a rocket ship to Mars and anchor off the satellite for lonely hearts such a special place in outer space. That's not space rock. I don't know what is. Yeah, no kidding. But these 90s rock bands, there's some sort of fascination with space. I don't know. But yeah, killer song.

I mean, isn't that like, what's the name of that one slow dive record, Slovakia? Oh, yeah, Slovakia Space Station. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they're doing an intentional nod to, like, slow dive, especially since they know they're getting that shoeguaget label on them. Right. So I don't know if they're doing that on purpose.

But, yeah, I mean, shit. The band Polaris that we talked about a few weeks ago, talk about space, there's like Polaris. There's like, you know, NASA audio clips in some of the songs. and stuff. You found the Earth. Yeah, Saturn 9, stuff like that. Polaris is the name of a freaking constellation or something. Anyway, something was going around in the 90s, but, but yeah, again, the guitar, love the guitar. There's like a little phaser or like a flanger type effect on the guitar sound, which certainly adds to the space rock sound or like the psychedelic sound that that they're bringing into that. But it also just contributes to the shoegays

I don't do, the noise. It's all about the noise, guitars, or the stars, right? It's kind of that neo-psychadelia. Yeah. So here's another quote from that pitchfork right up. He said, few rock records sound like this. And if I could just stop there, I agree with that. I mean, that's like you were saying, it's like you, the sound is familiar because it's a bunch of different things that work really, really well together because, like, it's a little bit of grunge, it's a little bit of shoe gaze, it's a little bit of new wave, maybe just because of his voice, the way he sings, the way his cadence and stuff. It's like if the cure was in a grunchy shoegaze. Or Tears for Fears. I think, to me, I'm reminded of tears for fears guy.

Yeah. And then, I think you said this last time. I can't remember his name. Maybe you can pull it. The lead singer of Bush kind of sounds like this. Gavin Rosdale. Gavin Rosdale. Yeah, he does. I'm getting those vibes. But he, you know, arguably a grunge band. I know that people will fight you on that. This does remind me of Bush. Yeah. It really does. And that's probably because there's that little grunge element and maybe because he's, they're British, right? But yeah, here's another quote here. So where many shoegaze band would resign themselves to two, three monochromatic notes, Dickinson's vocal melodies are dynamic, vivid,

and exhibit an astral quality. There's the spaceness, right? Space quality. They burn, shimmer, and glow against these songs. It's as if chrome were imported from another history of alt rock. One more textured and romantic. Man, this guy's a writer. A bona fide writer.

It's almost like they get paid to write. That's another thing that I was searching for with the more traditional, quote-unquote, Shugays, it's the monochromatic notes. Like, they don't really stray too far from two to three notes in every song that they sing. And that's part of what you like about, what we like about Shugays. I mean, part of it. It's that hypnotic quality. Yeah, the repetitiveness of it and stuff like that.

Yeah. It kind of drones on, right? Right, right. But yeah, and that's why Catherine Wheel isn't a traditional Shugays band because they don't do that at all. They're writing traditional sounding rock songs, right? All right. One last song to close us out to you and get ready to float. Your favorite song from the 90s.

Get ready to levitate. I'm ready, man. The song, the chorus is just like soaring, dude. Like I said, start flapping your wings because you're about to fly. I'm going to fly straight to that Ursa Major. Yeah, you're about to take a rocket ship to Mars. It's a lot of hype, but I think. the hype is warranted.

So this song is called The Nude. Technically, it was put out as a UK single, promo single. We don't have to tell anyone that, dude. But, I mean, promo single, the way that it was released is as a remix. So, I mean, that's not really the, that doesn't count. All right. I think that's fair game then.

Doesn't count. We can play it. Exactly. All right. The song is called The Nude. Beautiful. Your arm's tired. No, he was doing all the flapping for me, dude.

Took me there. That chorus, man, he hits all the right notes for me. I really liked the little guitar ditty between the chorus and verse two. Yeah, and it's so different than the rest of the record. It's got that very clean guitar sound. Yeah. Which is almost absent from the record. And it's kind of a more of a traditional, more, yeah, more clean,

alt rock sound maybe that you would associate with REM, right? So we talked about last time how they had the jangly guitar sound from the 60s, which was absent of distortion, right? But this is where I hear, I'm going to keep saying it, tears for fears, like that very like open sounding, like soaring chorus, you know, makes me think of, makes me think a head over heels. I freaking love that album so much, dude. Songs from the big chair.

At some point, Q. We'll make our way to tears for fears. I definitely want to try to stick with this alt rock stuff from the mid-80s through the 90s because there's just so much to discover still. Yeah, Catherine Will being one of those bands. I had no clue about up until a few years ago. Well, yeah, there you go, dude. If I haven't convinced you to hit play on Chrome and ferment, really, start with ferment.

Just know that ferment's going to be a little bit more. I would say a little bit more shoe gazing. That's the funny thing is his vocals are so soft and a little bit more subdued on ferment. And that's because he hadn't found his voice yet. And so by the time you get to Chrome, you add you add Gil as a producer. Grunge is happening. And like all that was like the perfect recipe for Catherine Will to really stand out with this record. Yeah, the one thing that I've learned since we started this podcast is just how important.

the producer is with the final overall sound of an album, you know? Absolutely. I mean, the big revelation for me was when I found out that Nigel Godrick did both talkie-walkie by air and sea change by Beck. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, those albums stand out and they're so different from the rest of the catalog of both of those artists and it had so much to do with Nigel Godrick producing it.

Yeah, and, you know, Butch Vig, who did. did never mind and a bunch of other stuff from the 90s, right? And Butch Figg did that Sonic Youth record. I can't remember which one. Yeah. You know, they're going to push the band. If a good producer is going to push the band to go that much further to get a song to sound exactly how it needs to sound, right?

And that's it, man. Anyway, so again, that was Catherine Wheel. And that album was called Chrome. after this they put out a couple more records and their sound I believe kind of changed they kind of came into fully into their own on this record called Happy Days and I confess I haven't really listened much to it but Happy Days I believe had a couple more singles on there but Chrome is kind of what they're known for Chrome is their their crowning achievement if you will texture is still one of my favorite songs ever did hit play on Ferment it's track

one texture blew me away. That's what drew me into Catherine Hill and then I, it's great. I listened to Chrome and, and yeah. Let's, uh, let's do texture as our outro song. Totally, dude. Good call. All right. So, um, yeah, like we said, like we've been saying in the last couple of weeks, we're going to kind of stay in this pocket of 90s alt rock for as long as we can, really. So, uh, next week we're going to talk about a band called Pale Saints. I think you're going to kind of lead that one because I haven't I don't think I've uh you know I might I might know a song or two but haven't really spent much time with pale saints so I'm kind of excited I remember hearing a song of theirs from an album of theirs called The Comforts of Madness which was their debut album

that came out in 1990 a while ago on just a random Spotify playlist and then they popped up again with a song from one of their singles that came out in between Comforts of Madness and their next full length, which is called In Ribbons, that came out in 92. And that's the album that we're going to focus on next week. And I mean, they are the perfect companion to Catherine Wheel. Well, I'm going to go in, I'm going to go on cold, dude. Please do. Yeah. This album blew me away. I think I might cover a song from that single as well, because it felt kind of more like a B-side album. So I'm going to say it's fair game for us. But Yeah, man, this album blew me away. They get the shoe gaze genre thrown on them. But again,

it's different than the My Bloody Valentine formula. It is more in line with Catherine Wheel. Well, after that, we are going to talk about Hum, as I said earlier. And we're going to cover their 1998 record downward is heavenward. So if you need a reason to tune in the next couple weeks, there's two reasons right there. And then after that, I believe. leave will be our next what you heard. So lots of good music coming up. If you're a fan of 90s rock or if you like us and you're kind of discovering this kind of stuff for the first time,

hopefully we can introduce you to some new bands. Hopefully Catherine Wheel hasn't been on your radar. But yeah, Downward is Heavenward by Hum is one of my favorite 90s records. So I can't wait to share that one with the Q if you haven't really paid attention to it. No, the only songs that I'm familiar with are the ones that you brought to what you heard. long time ago. I brought a song off of this record, so I'll have to see which one I brought. But probably green to me or Mrs. Lazarus, but they're all good.

So I'll have plenty to choose from. All right. Well, as always, you can find us on Instagram. Just search for No Filler podcast. Sometimes we'll share stuff on there. Usually we don't. But, you know, that's a place to get in touch with us. If you want to reach out to us and give us ideas for albums to talk about,

share a song with us that you've been listening to lately, and we'll sneak it into our What You Heard episode at the end. So follow us on Instagram. We're also part of the Pantheon Podcast Network. That's Pantheonpodcast.com, home of many, many great music-centered podcasts. As always, thank you to AKG for sponsoring the show. And yeah, next week we'll come at you. with some pale saints.

And we're going to close out this episode with texture by Catherine Wheel off of their record ferment. And that's it. My name is Travis. And I'm Quentin. You all take care. It was the night before the gathering and all through the house. The host rapid cozy cashmere throw from Homense for their spouse.

Kids toys for $6.99 under the tree. And crystal glasses for just $14.99 for the house. brother Lee, a baking dish made in Portugal for Tom and Sue, and a nice $599 candle, perfectly priced just for you. Happy holidays to all, and to all a good price. Home sense, endless presents perfectly priced.