No Filler Music Podcast - Ep 37: Nick Drake - Bryter Layter (w/ special guest Larry Llodra)

Episode Date: June 22, 2019

Yeah, we know....it's been a hot minute. But we are back in the swing of things and decided to bring along one of our dearest friends for this one: singer-songwriter Larry Llodra, hailing from Austin TX, to talk with us about one of the most under-appreciated folk artists of the last half century, Nick Drake. In the span of just three years, Nick Drake gave us three incredibly beautiful folk-pop records that are nothing short of masterpieces, each one bringing us just a little bit closer to the man himself. Just two years after his extremely vulnerable, poetic & raw third studio album "Pink Moon" was released to the masses, he succumbed to his own overwhelmingly troubled & isolated mind, overdosing on prescription pain medication at the age of 26. Join us as we dive into his second studio album, "Bryter Layter". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Go to bedfredsports.com for more information and your chance to win exclusive merchandise. Must be 21 or older. Play responsibly for help. Call 1-800 gambler. He was always hiding. I mean, it became more true progressively, but he was from the first time I met him. He stuttered.

He was apologetic. He was hesitant in all things, in all situations. And in a way, it was only when he had a guitar in his hands that he seemed physically confident. And welcome to No Filler, the music podcast dedicated to sharing the often overlooked hidden gyms that fill the space between the singles on our favorite records. My name is Quentin, and with me as always is my brother Travis. and it's been a while, Trev. I feel like it's been too long since we've done this, man.

Yeah, it's been like three weeks probably, right, since our last release. Yeah, so that means it's been a month since we actually recorded. Can you imagine the pins and needles that are one listener? Oh, my God. Waiting on it. I know. Hey, wait, what's that? What was that?

Is it a third voice? Yeah, I just tittoed in. I thought. I thought I heard something. That is the voice of Larry Lodra. What's up, dude? Who is a good, good friend of mine. We used to live in Austin together, and he is actually chiming in from Austin to join us today to cover Nick Drake and his 1971 album, Brighter Later.

It's a goodie. It is a goody. And Larry, you're one of the... like as soon as we decided to start doing this podcast we're like man Larry's gonna be one of the guys we have to get on this podcast to shoot some shit with and talk music dude it's it's either you guys or I you know spout off these useless facts to my wife who is just like so had it with me in the trivia that is how I feel man I know trust me I know um you're actually the guy that

showed me Nick Drake. Shit. Dude, it's, it's been over 10 years, man. Yeah. Yeah, wow. Since we lived in Austin together. It's crazy. Yeah, it's wild. Also, shit, you know what? You guys all know about our music blog, New Dust, that is rest in peace.

Larry, we got the name New Dust. We pulled that from one of your songs. Yeah, I remember that. There's one of those. Do you remember the line? because I could tell it what it was. Please don't. I'm going to.

Can I? Can I? Dude, it's very, very poetic. Yeah. I don't remember the name of the song, but the line was. I think the song was called New Dust is what it was called. Okay. Yeah.

The line was like to take this old blood and make new dust or something. Yeah. Hmm. Gets me going. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't played that one in probably 10 years, maybe since like the last time I saw you, which is, it just blows my mind.

Dude, maybe you could give us an on-air exclusive. Yeah, bust out that guitar. But no, we, yeah, we, for some reason we thought that was just such a cool name for a music blog, and that's what we went with. Well, flattered, very flattered. You should be, dude. You're one of my favorite songwriters. I'm not even joking.

Holy smokesy guys. But this, I'm so glad to actually be on here talking about this because this record is one of my favorites. It means a great deal to me. For many reasons, it's been with me a long, long time. But also, one of the last songs, one of the best songs on the record, in my opinion, is Northern Sky. Uh-huh. Towards the end of the record. And was my, me and my wife's wedding song.

Oh, nice. Yeah, dude. So love this record. Awesome, awesome. Yeah. Cool. So I guess let's just jump right into it. I don't know really where to start. So the thing about Nick Drake and that clip that I played was a guy by the name of Joe Boyd, who was his producer for his first two records. And I want to do. One of the first two records. I want to say he met him, I think I read back in 68, so I don't, I don't think Nick had decided to quit college yet, but Joe Boyd was like, hey, you know, I think you heard like a demo or something from Nick and was just blown away and offered him a deal. So the, yeah, go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry to cut you up. No, lay some knowledge on me, brother.

No, no. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, he got a demo tape. But he got it from the bass player of Fairport Convention. Okay. And a few weeks before that, he ended up, he had this tape of like a few songs. And he showed up at the doorstep of this guy named Chris Blackwell's house, or not his house, but his office. And Chris Blackwell was the owner of Island Records at the time.

So he shows up at his house And the story is is that Chris Blackwell's like this thing This stuff does not rock at all And it's kind of like I manage rock guys Come back to me in like six months With some more material

And we'll talk So then a few weeks later He plays this club Opening up for Fairport Convention And the bassist And some other like big folk Band at the time and the bassist

hears Drake is immediately captivated and drags Drake Nick Drake to this guy's house I'm blanking on his name now John his

his producer's house Oh Joe Boyd Joe Boyd That's right Yeah and gives him the tape that same tape that he gave Chris Blackwell and freaks out over it and like doesn't stop listening to it.

Anyway. And Travis, what do you know about Nick Drake, dude? Did you ever get into him? Dude, just tell us, like, Nick Drake just sucks. I don't care. What's my feelings, man. No, no, here's the thing. Here's the thing.

So, like, here's my experience with Nick Drake. I've listened to Pink Moon, right? And, like, I'm always just, I feel like, unlike any other artist, Nick Drake just has this like warmth and like comfort to his voice and like his songwriting that like I don't get that vibe from anybody else.

Yeah. So you know what? I just just I just decided right now. You know what we're going to do guys? Because as soon as you said, Trevi said you heard Pink Moon right? Yep. Well, let's watch that Volkswagen commercial. Huh? Well, dude, I was going to talk.

about that actually. Yeah, because that's that, so it came on in 99. I wanted to ask you guys about that specifically, so. So, fuck, I don't know how far to get into it yet, but let's just say that that Nick Drake was not appreciated in his time. His, I guess, fame or like his respect came after his death. And I feel like I'm jumping the gun. But actually, you know what? Fuck the commercial. Let's just play a little bit of pink moon because one thing about pink moon, and I'm talking about the song specifically,

and the entire album, actually. It's just his voice and his guitar. Let's listen to a little bit of pink moon before we dive into brighter later. Dude, and that's why I drive a VW. Swear to God, I have a facade outside. Are you serious? And it's all coming back to me now.

Damn. Why that sweet VW looks so appealing. Let me ask you guys this. So like my, I think I kind of had known that this is the commercial that sort of like brought back his popularity. Right. Because like you were saying like this is when the record started to sell again. But he was never. He was never popular in his time.

He wasn't popular in his time. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm asking is like is this what made him. Because now like Nick Drake is very. very well known and like has sort of a like he made a comeback right i mean and is it tied to this commercial because that's huge a lot of people say that this kind of like when the tides turned i guess yeah so volksweb we have to credit volkswagen for for reintroducing nick drake to the masses

well but think about it that was 20 years over 20 years later it's not about reintroducing it's introducing him for the first time to a lot of people Okay, yeah, that's a good point. But like, I mean, you know, as far as like this brought back his, well, no, I guess you're saying that he never had a moment is what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. He didn't during his lifetime. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't have, you know, any notoriety during his lifetime.

I mean, actually after he does writer later, he ends up, it ends up being a commercial failure because he like doesn't promote it. Nobody picks it. Like, it gets mixed reviews. Yeah. And becomes yesterday's news, basically. And then he moves back in with his parents, calls up the old record producer that helped him with his first two albums. And is like, like, can we please make another record?

And then makes Pink Moon in two days, basically. So we'll get into a little bit more details in a little bit here. One thing that I read that I didn't realize, and maybe you knew this, Larry, but. Nick was super influenced by his mother. Her name's Molly Drake, and she was a poet and a musician. And there's these recordings, these recordings on tape, like home recordings of her singing and playing piano. And Nick's sister, Gabrielle, kept, held on to those tapes. And since Nick's death, they've been released officially.

But I've actually got a clip here from a really great documentary that is up on YouTube. We'll post a link to it in our show notes. It's called The Skin Too Few, The Days of Nick Drake. And there's a little bit of one of Molly's songs on here. It's really cool. Gabrielle's talking about Nick and their mother's influence on. on his guitar playing and singing. So here's a little bit of that.

I think that Nick was unconsciously very influenced by her. He may be horrified at the time to have heard this, but I'm quite certain that he was very influenced by her whole chord structure and by her way of composing. And perhaps the best way of showing this is to actually play one of her songs. And you can see somewhere the similarity in the influence. Sleeping, but for a little while, winter lies in the arms of spring, as a mother carries her child and never know.

Dude, I want to hear more of her stuff, man. It's beautiful. There's a, I guess, Nick Drake album compilation. It's called Family Tree. It's got songs from him, like demos, early demos. It's got Molly, his mother, and Gabrielle, all singing on it. It's great. Have you heard that, Larry?

I actually haven't heard that. I saw this movie a while back. So actually, hearing that she was a musician, that's new information to me, or at least it's renewed in my mind just because you could, it's crazy how similar he does sound. I mean, those big, those big bassy chords and all of the. use of like nature in the lyrics too. Yeah. Really interesting to hear. Yeah, it's a really pretty song.

So that song is called How Wild the Wind Blows. So but yeah, she like I said, in her lifetime, she never, you know, all we ever had with these just home recordings. But yeah, I thought that was interesting too because, you know, they grew up in this household where their mom was always singing. And yeah, you can really hear that. influence. And I feel like we need to jump. Let's go ahead and play our first tune and then we can get back into it. So from what I read, there's no singles on this record. So they're all a fair game

on this for our podcast. I'm going to play track two on the record, which comes after the little introduction track. It's called Hazy Jane 2. So it's so sharp when you're not looking and so secure amongst the books and all the records of your lifetime. So I want to talk about his, I guess, timing with the way he lays his lyrics over his guitar. And again, I'm no like musician. I just play drums. It doesn't count.

But Larry, as a songwriter yourself, this song in particular, I just love the way that it's like he, it's like he's cramming all these words into these verses, you know? But he sets it up in a way that he can, he could pretty much just continue singing indefinitely over the guitar. Does that make sense? Do you guys know what I'm talking about? Dude, let me say something right now before, before Larry gets a chance to answer. this reminds me of because i because i was going to ask the same question like this this this this is a a like a i don't know like a technique or something because like it makes me think of misty mountain hop by led zepplin misty mountain hop is that what you just said isn't that what

the fucking name of the song is brough misty misty mountain top oh shit misty mountain hop wait it might be misty mountain hop it is misty mountain hop dude it's hop i think it is misty mountain hop misty Are you kidding me? No. No. Yeah, Misty Mountain Hop. What? It's Missy Mountain Hop.

Yeah, dude. Oh my God. So anyway, what I was going to say is like with the way that, yeah, so with the way that that they do the verse on that song, Robert Plant or whatever, it's the same kind of thing where like the verse can extend like it can be longer, it can be shorter, but it's the cadence and stuff where it's like there is no like, you know, you can just. you can make it as long as you want i guess does that make any freaking sense too

why don't you take a good look at your right right that's what you can extend that forever yeah i mean you just keep going so anyways larry are we dumb or what tell us how stupid we are all right dummies I'm taking the reins from here no no no

look dude if you if it sounds good that's all that matters I mean, I don't want to get too pretentious with the way that, I mean, I'm no like end-all be-all when it comes to why it sounds good. I mean, or how he constructed it. I'm sure it's pretty, it probably follows a lot of the same. I haven't analyzed it, but it probably follows a lot of the same sort of pop structures, you know, with a lot of it being, you know, just you'll have like a an eight-bar verse or a 16-bar verse and then you go to a chorus or a pre-chorus and then a chorus

and then you just repeat it over again and maybe hit a bridge along the way to switch things up. But in terms of, you know, his songs and why they sound so flowy like that, it's really, what he's doing is he's syncopating his voice over those guitar lines. he's a guitar player first and so when you hear when you hear him play you pointed out something earlier that's very interesting about him

and that is that like Joni Mitchell he would create guitar tunings to kind of reach for a certain sound so it can be frustrating sometimes to play guitar and

reach for the same chords but if you detune your guitar your hand Your hands are forced to do something completely different. And you come up with something unique. You play rhythms that you wouldn't otherwise play. And when you sing over that stuff, you know, and you syncopate your voice over that, his vocal lines are usually pretty simple and follow the guitar, probably because of how complicated some of the rhythms he's playing is.

Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. No, I didn't notice that, but I have a quote here from a guy named Neil McCull. He, his father is like a legendary folk guitar player and he is as well. And there was a Nick Drake tribute concert that they put together in Birmingham in 2009. And they enlisted Neil to play his guitar parts. And he says here, his right hand fingering particularly is like playing an upside down guitar at times. And just the sheer number of tunings for the gigs that we did, I had eight different tunings to get through.

That's insane. That's absolutely crazy because if you, Sonic Youth used to do that, but they would have to bring like 16 guitars on the road with them so that people wouldn't have to hear them tune. and Nick Drake when he would play Joe Boyd would because he was his manager his like the person who had the most interest in whether or not his records would sell and he sent one of his friends to go check him out to check out this gig

that was like cities away to see Drake play one of his very few shows and he said and his friend came back and said well he goes well how was how was the drake show joe asked his friend and his friend goes it was embarrassing and part of it was is that a he would play quiet but b between every song he would take forever to tune and he would like think about what tunings he needed to go to and so it would be so such a slow transition that people would start to talk over him and the room would get louder and louder.

So the point where he'd get like three songs in, stare at his shoes for a moment, and would just walk off, like not talk to anybody. And so he would rarely play shows as a result of that. Yeah, I was actually going to bring that up. So the album that came out before, brighter, later was released a couple years before. It was called Five Leaves Left. And apparently shortly after that was released, you know, they wanted to get him out there for some exposure. And he opened for Fairport Convention and a couple other bands. And that concert went over really well. The way that, and I'm quoting someone that I don't have his name because I was also listening to this old BBC radio, little like miniseries. And for some reason, they didn't ever

give the name of the guy that they were interviewing at one. point. But he said that it was like Nick Drake was just like captivating. The audience was very like present and just you know they're they were in awe of him basically. But then jump two years later with Brighter later and like you were saying, so Joe Boyd sent him off on the road to play some universities and other small venues and bars. And like you said, people would just get, they would just talk over him. even like while he was singing the songs. They would just be in the background talking,

just not giving a shit. And yeah, with having to change his guitar tunings between every song, and because Nick Drake is such a shy and, you know, quiet person, he didn't say like, all right,

I'm not going to play until you guys stop talking. You know, he would just kind of go in on himself and get all in his head. And he called Joe, you know, a few gigs in was like, I can't do this anymore, I'm coming home.

And like you had said it before we started recording, Larry, he was just a terrible self-promoter. And that's why, from what I read, those two albums, Five Leaves Left and Brighter Later, neither of them sold more than 5,000 copies when they were first released. Yeah. So he does the two records.

he puts you know so much effort into making those two records and they flop partially because he gets into drugs and can't promote it he gets pretty heavy into doing some drugs some say that John Kale who was in the Velvet Underground oh yeah he shows up on brighter later right yeah he he was working on a Nico record next door and he's like I have to work on this record, Joe. Joe lets him in. He reworks Northern Sky and a couple other tunes. But along the way, it said that he may have introduced,

he may or may not have introduced Drake to heroin. That is like nobody knows for sure. But it's pretty soon after that that he was just becoming increasingly unreliable. And more isolated. too. And more isolated, yeah. And so when that all didn't work out, a couple things happened. He calls his mom and he's like, can I move back in?

Can I move back home? Because he's like, I've failed. Like the book that I read on this, dude, he was like, he said something like heartbreaking to his mom. And I'm not quoting it right, but he was just like, I fail that everything that I've tried to do. And he moves back in, and he moves back home. He's like, I, like, I don't like it at home, but I feel like I can't survive anywhere else, dude. Then then he like literally, months after that, he has some songs calls John Wood. And he goes, I've got a new batch of songs.

and he goes into the studio and records them and records them for over two days and John would ask him like well so what are we going to do with the arrangement and apparently like he didn't talk at all during this session dude like nothing didn't say a word to anybody I've heard on other accounts that most of the record he

he sang he was singing on his back and we're talking about pink pink moon at this point right yeah we're talking about pink moon yeah and uh he recorded in two days like i said and then he goes to island and sells it to island for 500 bucks which is the only and then he like never had anything to do with music after that just went back home and and and died that was yeah that was released in 72 and then and he died in 74 he overdosed on prescription meds. It's bleak, my friends.

Yeah, dude, he's hardcore. So here's why I picked Brighter Later. I mean, so Pink Moon is one thing, and it's haunting, you know, and beautiful. It's just him and his guitar. But what I like about Brighter Later is, you know, it's got saxophone, it's got strings, you know. You know, it's got...

You know, I was going to say that what I love, love about Pink Moon is just how intimate it is, man. I actually like the fact that it's just him and his guitar. Like, I'm not, not that, not that the songs on Brighter Later aren't, aren't great. I'm just saying, like, there's something about that. I feel like with, with, with, with his music, it's more impactful when it's just him singing to you, you know, without the other, the other instruments. I agree. Yeah, I, I totally agree. That's why, um, I would say that, That's probably my favorite record. But I mean, I love all the arranged stuff on the first two records, too.

But I agree with you. There's something about the intimacy in that last one. Yeah. That is just like you just feel like you're in his... You're right there with them. In his mind. Yeah. Do you think the flop of brighter or later is what made him say, you know what?

I'm just going back to just me and my guitar. I think so. It had to have. Yeah, because, I mean, like you said, like he put so much work in. to it and it's like I'm just going to stick with what I know which is me and my guitar. And his battle with depression was just getting growing, you know, and he was becoming more and more isolated. And actually, okay, you know what? So, you know, this is one of the reasons why I didn't want to do Pink Moon is because like, like I said, it's, you can't, you can't talk about Nick Drake

without, without diving into this, you know, dark, depressing stuff. But, you know, Bridley-Later's got some more upbeat tunes so we can kind of steer away from this. So let's play, let's play our next clip. Let's jump to track four. This is one of my favorite Nick Drake songs. I think I play a couple of the verses here. So it's a pretty good, it's a good chunk of the song. So this one is called One of These Things First. been a cook as simple as a cat or study as a rock I could be I should be but a how I could well what do you think that one's about what do you like what do you like about it so just judging by I haven't read the lyrics yet but from what I could hear like he's in his mid-20s right

when he's writing this stuff yeah like early pretty early I think I think you know that's something that a lot of us, you know, go through, like, reflective on sort of like the path that we're on in life and stuff, like, in our 20s and, like, what are we going to end up being and stuff? And so it sounds like he's just kind of reflecting on, like, what he, what could have been, you know, which is relatable, I think. It's a very, it's a, it's a, it's a very, like Robin Pecknold type song. Yeah, dude. Good call. That's true, man. Pecknold is always very reflective in that way. Yeah. So what I like, my favorite. I mean, the first two verses, which is what we heard.

At the beginning, he's kind of singing about like almost like reincarnation kind of thing. You know, like it could have been a sailor, could have been a cook, could have been a book, could have been a clock. I didn't catch that. Yeah, yeah. And then in the second verse, it seems like he's singing about like a relationship that didn't work out. or something. Or like, you know, what he wished he could have been for this person in his life, you know, saying, I could have been your pillar, could have been your door, I could have

stayed beside you, could have stayed for more. I could have been your statue, could have been your friend, a whole long lifetime, could have been the end. And then the chorus, I could be yours so true, I would be, I should be through and through. Anyways, beautiful. Beautiful stuff. I guess my only commentary on that, it's like, if you were to think about having that sort of,

that thought about like, I could be all these different things. There's something really, gosh, I can't find the word for it, but there's something like, there's this existential quality of that, about posing that thought. It's like, I could have been, he's like thinking about all. of the different possibilities of what life could have been and how bizarre it is to be here, to be living, a living, breathing being placed where you are now. And so like it's just insane how he captures that. But I can't imagine having that kind of thought unless you start to feel those wafts of nihilistic nihilism in your mind,

where it's like, you know, I might as well have been this inanimate object in this room or I could have been all of these things. Like how much more simple that would have been? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it could be, it could be like something as depressing as that, but it could also be something as like inquisitive as like, man, the fact that I'm here and now it's like it's just a curious thing. and that's maybe what he's getting at too.

But it's a great song. I love it. It just sounds beautiful, that tumbling sort of arrangement. The piano. The piano lines great. I actually really like the piano on that one. Yeah, I like this one. It's more simple.

Drums, guitar, piano. And it's interesting how he draws that word out, you know, like so, like, it just draws it out for way longer than, yeah. Yeah. I think that's interesting. Like you don't, you know, that makes me interested in the song. Like, because when he's doing that, like, you're definitely, he's got your attention at that point because it's like, what, what's he doing? You know? Yeah.

Like, when he, when he hits what part, like, what part do you like? There's that word, there's that word that he draws out really long. It's, it's in the chorus. He does it over and over again. He, like, hits that falsetto in there. Here, let's, let's play, let's just play it. Yeah, let's play it again. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

He just draws these words out and it's really different, you know? That's really cool. And it's like, you know, if he's longing for something, maybe that's why he's doing it. You know what I mean? Like he's thinking about, maybe I'm stretching with that, but I'm just, you know, I'm trying to think of the thinking behind doing it that way. Like, why is he doing that? He's probably not thinking about it too much.

I don't, I don't imagine him thinking about it too much. I think when stuff like that happens, you don't perform something like that. I don't imagine you perform something like that being so calculated. Like, why do I put this here or that? You probably make sense of it after the fact. My estimation is he's probably just in the moment. That's why that performance is so fantastic. You feel that longing in that sort of cooing thing that he's doing there.

Right, right. So, yeah, these are the songs that I like more on this album. Did you guys like Hazy Jane too? The first song I played? Yeah, I love that song. Yeah, man. Hazy Jane's great. The way that he paces those words and stuff is something else, man.

Yeah, okay, cool. I mean, I didn't want to make this episode too damn long, or we could dive into the lyrics and Hazy Jane too as well. But let's just jump ahead. And also, I just want to comment on, this is one of my favorite album covers of all time. Yeah, I just love everything about it. The color. the way the shadows are cast over his body.

I mean, it's haunting, man. It's really haunting. Well, it's funny because it's almost like a bait and switch, you know, because you're like, oh, there he is just him and his guitar. And then you put it on. It's like, where are all these horns coming from? Yeah. There's that.

Kirby again. That's right. Hey, well, let me ask you, is, uh, is five leaves left? Is it just him and his guitar? Or did he have other instruments on that? one. It's him and his boy, Curbs. Him and his boy, curbs. Okay.

He provided the string arrangements for the most part, right? Okay. Yeah, he did all the, I mean, he had some of those Fairport Convention guys on there. He worked at the, he worked with the various, a bunch of different musicians. But Kirby is the dude who arranged, did all the arrangements for him. Do you know what five leaves, five leaves left? comes from the phrase yeah no no he was a cigarette smoker and would roll his own cigarettes and at the like when you'd get to the fifth of the final five leaves of paper it would say five

leaves left cigarette that's cool interesting I like that yeah you know what about this in terms of arrangers, that's interesting, is the guy who was originally supposed to arrange this record was this guy named Richard Houston. And he actually was the one who put all those strings and stuff on Let It Be that like pissed everybody off. Oh, really? And he apparently recorded some songs with that dude and like just wasn't into it. And then he had this friend from college.

That's that Robert Kirby guy. Robert Kirby, yeah. Earlier, and he started working out arrangements with him. He had played in rock bands and sort of got what Drake was doing. And the island guys were, like, went to hear the stuff he was doing with Kirby. And they were like, okay, we'll pass on this dude who's worked with the Beatles. Oh, my God, dude. We'll go with Robert Kirby.

So I read that Nick Drake was, he was wanting brighter later to be like his pet sounds, as far as how it sounded with the arrangements and all that. He hired the Pet Sounds drummer to be on it. Awesome. All right. We're going to jump down to another one of my favorites on the record. It is track 7. It's called Fly.

Please give me a second grace. Be a second face. For a rest time or all, I just sit on the ground. No. What's time for a recompense for what's done Come sit down on the fence in the sun Birds will roll by It's really too hard for to fly

A second day A street car by the bay I must know how fine you are in your way And the sea she will sigh Right she won't For it's really to fly What do you guys think this song is about? You know, I have no idea.

I'm trying to figure out when I'm reading these lyrics. I mean, it seems like he's down on himself again. At some point, some points, I've fallen far down the first time around. Now I just sit on the ground in your way. This is one of those songs again for me. I just love, like you guys are saying about Pink Moon. I do like the more simple songs where it's his voice and guitar

kind of in the forefront. Yeah. I think this song is probably about him wanting, like him wanting like a second chance at something. Yeah. He has a lot of references to second grace

and, you know, time elapsing. Yeah. I'm so down. I've fallen so far, things like that. And so,

I guess I don't really understand the allusions to the fly, but look, I think a lot of great songs. And Kirkobane is a great songwriter, and a lot of his stuff just really didn't mean anything. Some of it just sounds really good. Or it could be that, and this is probably more in line with the time, I would say that Drake probably is writing impressive. So you think about the impressionist painters and there's not a whole lot of definite form to say, oh, well, that is how the lawn looks. There's these little blots that make up the grass and the sky. And so you fill in the blanks with your mind, with however it is that you perceive that picture. And I think he writes like that. And I think that's part of what makes not only the fact that, that we barely have any audio of him actually speaking. We have only like one recorded bit of him speaking, but also the fact that he writes this way makes him so damn mysterious and makes him an interesting artist too, you know? Yeah. One thing about his music, it feels timeless to me.

Yeah. Yeah. This could have come out yesterday. Yeah. Well, that's what I was going to say. It's like, I feel like when that Volkswagen commercial came out in 99, like that's when that like resurgence of like folk pop was about to happen, you know, in the early 2000s. Yeah, so I feel like, you know,

it hit at the right time for like, you know, introducing him to people. Because it's, I mean, like you said, it sounds timeless, man.

I mean, that could have came out with, with the rest of those bands in the early O's, you know? Yeah. I think about how many people heard that or, you know, that commercial and we're like man who who is this and they found out that it was you know an

album that came out in 71 and probably blew them away right that's what I'm saying I think he actually found himself I could be so wrong but I think he actually got a gold record after that time I mean of course this is many years after his death but yeah yeah so do you think like one of the reasons he didn't I mean aside from like his his uh drug about views and whatnot and depression and stuff. Like, do you think that one of the reasons his music didn't catch on in the 70s is because Q, you had mentioned like, you know, hard rock had become all the rage. But like, do you think it was just because, I mean, there were a lot of folk bands back

then, too, you know, that had kind of come and gone? Do you think folk was dead in the early 70s? I mean, we'd gotten past like the, you know, like the Greenwich Village stuff, right? Right? I mean, that had already come and gone. Grinage. Grinich. Yeah, I mean, it's that... Am I getting my decades mixed up here?

Like, most of that folk stuff was dead, right? I mean, Bob Dylan had already done his thing. Dylan was, at this point, Dylan was kind of hiding out. But people were obsessed with Dylan. Dylan was like, if Dylan went on tour, he was hitting the stadiums. Yeah. So, like, people were hungry for this type of thing. It wasn't like Dylan had gone electric by this point.

And so people were, it wasn't like old-timey Pete Seeger folk purists out there, like demanding this type of music. But you had that second wave of folks who were just like, oh, you know, we love Dylan. We also want to get into this folk thing. And then you have like Fairport Convention and Nick Drake and Bert Janch and all these other. folks that come, come along, like in that next wave. So, and Drake's part of that.

Yeah, exactly. It just kind of seems like he was his own downfall. He just gave up on himself, and he was too bummed out about, you know, he thought that these two records, he was going to find success with those, you know? And like I said, he decided to cancel. the rest of these tour dates that Joe Boyd set up for him, you know, to tour for for brighter or later just because, you know,

he felt like no one cared. And that's a huge bummer, man, you know? And then that, yeah, like you were saying, Larry, then he moved back in with his parents and just got super isolated and increasingly depressed. So I do, actually, I do have one more clip. Maybe I can squeeze it in here. So another one of his, you know, longest,

you know, oldest friends from college, his name is Brian Wells. And he actually is now like a pretty well-known psychiatrist, or at least respected psychiatrist. And he kind of has a little bit of something to say about what he felt was kind of going on with Nick Drake's mental health. I think Nick became increasingly withdrawn and didn't actually suffer from what I would now regard

as a depressive illness that I would prescribe antidepressant drugs. for. I think that what happened was it was a bit like Phil Spector, who was regarded as a sort of mad genius who became isolated, and everybody said, oh, Phil Spector's a mad genius who becomes isolated, and he kind of lived out his own image, if you like. And I think that Nick made brighter later, it didn't get the reviews that possibly he was hoping for, and I think that his relationship, Joe Boyd went off to America, and Nick was increasingly isolated. And I think to some extent, he began to live his own sort of rather melancholic, not fantasy, but he got himself into a rut. So that, I think that's interesting. It's almost like he's saying he's like, he's like speaking

all these things into existence just in his own mind. Like he's, he's getting increasingly more isolated and down on himself because that's what he feels like he deserves at this point. Yeah. Damn. The fact that this guy's saying that he wouldn't, that he, that he, he didn't think of Nick Drake as someone who was, you know, depressive and someone he would prescribe meds to. That's interesting to me.

And also so, it's just so sad, man. Yeah. My heart. Poor Nick, man. All right, so I wasn't going to play this song, but let's, for our last clip from Brighter Later, now that I found out that Northern Sky is your favorite one on the record, let's play a little bit of it.

Yeah, dude, that's my favorite. That's the crowning jewel, in my opinion. Let's hear it, man. Magic crazy is this? I never saw moons, knew the meaning of the sea. I never heard the motion in the palm of my hand. I felt sweet breezes in the top of a tree, but now you're here.

Bright in my northern sky. That's a great song, man. Now I'm just picturing you and Carissa doing your first dance. Oh my God. Yeah, dude. Very important, too. I had people come up to me afterwards. They were like, dude, I'd never heard that song before.

And a couple people made that comment and were like almost not, I don't want to say disgusted, but they were just like, oh, that was kind of a sad song he played. But I mean, come on. Are the lyrics kind of sad? No, I mean, it's basically, in my opinion, talking about like the amazing feeling, I don't know, that is love, I guess. I don't know, that's sort of the way I've, yeah, yeah, how it's not a physical presence, but it's there. Yeah, sure. songs for that and how he feels like whoever that is is coming to bring that. At least that's my interpretation.

So I didn't pull up lyrics, but it is so obvious how much he was influenced by his mother with that song that we heard from her, how the wild wind blows. Like he, yeah, like he said, a lot of his music, there's this imagery with nature and like these metaphors with like the power of like natural forces in the world and like how it can relate to us. Dude you you can hear like really shitty songwriters that they'll throw those string together these metaphors and stuff and like for some reason like even if you say well he's just he's just putting together these things that sound good and they don't mean anything for whatever reason when he does say he is doing that it sounds fantastic.

Whereas when you hear like a really bad songwriter, you go to any open mic night and catch somebody who's writing their first batch of songs. They will put this stuff in thinking, ah, yes, it just sounds poetic. Therefore, you know, it'll be considered art. But it like pretty clearly stands out as just being pretentious and lame. Yeah. It is crazy that, you know, some of this, some of the imagery that he puts together somehow, it ties together, that thread that he weaves through each of those images, I can't quite tell what it is, but it's there. I mean, because it feels cohesive. Yeah. What do you think,

Travis? What? He's surfing the web. You've been surfing the web, brother? We were getting, we're getting all deep and lovy dove. No, no, no. Well, okay, here's what I was going to say. I did, I do have, I do have I do have a comment. Okay, go ahead. All of that. Go ahead. So, like, you were talking about you can tell the difference between some singer at an open mic night and, like, somebody like Nick Drake. I feel like, like, we talked about this when we, when we did the Fleet Fox's episode and talked about Robin Pecknold and stuff.

Like, you have to be a good, like, storyteller and, like, poet, you know, if you want to be a good songwriter. Like, oh, yeah. You can't. I feel like you can be a great guitar player and even come up with a good melody and stuff. But if like, you know, I mean, shit, you listen to the radio now and it's, the lyrics are, you know, and like there's nothing. A lot of it's bad. Of course you can say that.

Yeah, but I'm saying like that's what makes, you know, somebody like a Nick Drake or Robin Pecknold, you know, that's what makes them stand out. It's like, you can tell that they're, they pay a lot of attention to. to the lyrics and the story that they're trying to tell or the mood that they're trying to set, even if it's nonsensical, you know? Yeah, and in the few years that Nick went to college, he did study English literature, so. I mean, he's obviously a writer, you know,

he probably has journals, he probably had diaries and journals and stuff that he was writing in. Because like we were saying, it all sounds very reflective, too. Like, he's obviously, like, very, like, in his head, you know? Yeah. He'd read, like, a lot of, uh,

they'd describe him, in this book on Pink Moon, they describe him growing up as being an athlete, but being like the guy who was like always reading books and reading like old philosophy books and always, but and always being sort of withdrawn and like somebody who liked art, but also was very athletic in school. He's a big dude, man. That guy is a beast. All right, boys. actually Larry do you want to listen to any other songs on this album did I miss did I miss one you wanted to hear

no I really like uh chimes of a city clock yeah it's a good at the chime of a city clock I did make a clip of that one but actually you know what let's just we'll just uh outro that'll be our outro clip we'll just fade out with at the chime of the city clock which what I like about about that song it just kind of it has a cool like really conjures up images of like city life and kind of like a seems about like a social life too which is you know it's it's not like Nick Drake to to write songs about stuff like that so but I really like that song so we'll have that one as our outro so let's wrap it up brothers yeah man I think this is a solid episode absolutely thank you so much Larry for doing this with us yeah man happy to be here thank you

Yes. So, as always, you know what, Travis, I always say this part. You say it this time. Well, I like it when you say it because you always compliment the website when you say it. Well, compliment your own damn website. No, I ain't got to do that, dude. It's all right. You got to self-promote, buddy. Yeah. That's my last name. Wow. I got to cut that part after. Here I go. Actually, no. I don't know. Travis, where can they find us?

I'll fucking say. So, as always, you can find us on no-feelerpodcast.com, where you can read the show notes and listen to all of our previous episodes. Learn a little bit more about each artist and album that we cover. You can also find us on SoundCloud, and I... God damn, this is why you do it. Dude, you sound like I'm just dragging you along, like this is the last thing you want to do. you ever. screaming,

dude. You can find us online. Q, where else can you find us? You can find us on SoundCloud. Much better. We hate this part. And iTunes. Just copy and paste it from the last episode.

Yeah. Sh, Larry, what are you talking about? We don't edit any of this ever. I'm sure you probably did it. You probably nailed it. You probably nailed it. felt good about it during one time you running through this. That's true.

There's got to be at least one time where it was like, man, that was perfect. All right. Well, yeah. Perfect outro. Well, Travis, why don't you listen to all of our old episodes, and you let me know which one it is. Okay. That way, so while I'm editing this together, you can just see me like, all right, episode 20. Man, we sounded so excited about talking about our website.

Let's put that one in. Let me just get right on that. Let's put that one in. All right, friends. As always, thank you so much for listening. So again, we're going to fade us out with another song from Brider Later. And I don't even know what we're going to do next week, Travel. We'll just figure that out later.

It's not like anyone's listening anyways, right? Anyways, thank you again, Larry, for joining us. You're welcome back anytime, my man. Yeah, dude. Thank you. Yeah. All righty. So we're going to fade us out.

with track three on brighter later it is called at the chime of a city clock a city free pray for warmth and green paper a city droid your don't I see your trousers don't taper a saddle up I kick your feet I travel to his wealth to the city man