No Filler Music Podcast - Was Bush Really Grunge? Breaking Down Their Early Sound

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

We finally get around to talking about Bush and dive into their first 2 records: Sixteen Stone and Razorblade Suitcase. Released only 8 months after the death of Kurt Cobain, the music world was split between fans that wanted to move on from grunge, and those that were highly protective of it's legacy and culture. Bush got caught somewhere in the middle, seeing commercial success on one hand and scorn from devoted grunge heads on the other. But decades removed from the era, the 2 records stand out amongst the slew of grunge copycats that came and went. Tracklist Bush - Everything Zen Bush - Swim Bush - Bomb Bush - Personal Holloway Bush - Insect Kin This show is part of the Pantheon Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, I'm Mike Judge, and you're listening to the Pantheon Network. And welcome to No Filler. the music podcast dedicated to sharing the often overlooked hidden gyms that fill the space between the singles on our favorite records. My name is Travis. I got my brother Quentin with me, of course. And that was Bush.

Everything's in off of their record 16 stone. We're going to talk about their first two records today. And this is funny, dude. This is funny. Isn't it funny? So this is one of the first bands that we talked about, and this record, well, 16-s-one at least, was one of the first albums that we wanted to talk about on this podcast. But for some reason, we sidelined it.

And I think we know why. But like, yeah, 2017, we have this old Google Docs note that Quentin put together prepping for this episode. Can I just say how beautiful these notes are? Because like this was like when we first started. Oh, yeah, when we try. Brainstorming ideas and wanting to do like this podcast. Yeah, we were still figuring out what the format was going to be and all that. But man, did I take my time on these notes, dude.

You sure did, dude. What happened? Well, first of, 2017. I know. Eight years ago, dude. I know, dude. Now, hang on. Now, was 2017 the first year that we actually were putting out?

Dude, I think this was before the first episode. Yeah, I was going to say. Because I think the first episode was 2018. 2018, that's cool. Let me just find out here. I got the feed pulled up. The very first episode, okay, the teaser episode dropped in 2018, January. So we were prepping for this before we actually put out an episode.

So yeah, I think what we had done was recorded, you know, the first few episodes or something like that. And Bush was one of the, it's just funny. Who knows why we wanted to have Bush as one of our first episodes. But basically what happened is, if you go back and you look at our very first episode, it kind of reveals a clue as to why we ditched Bush. So our first episode was Allison Chains Dirt. And I remember during that prepping for that episode, we were doing a lot of research on grunge and discovered that Bush is kind of,

shunned into grunge communities. Yeah, dude. And okay. We got scared, man. We were like, you know what? We don't want to. I know. You can't drop, like, early on in, in your, like, podcast journey.

Yeah, you can't drop. Yeah. You can't have an episode one with Allison Chains. And then a few episodes later, drop an episode on a grunge band from the 90s that, grunge fans do not like if we did it right we could have done it

but we were just you know what we didn't know what we were done we were still dipping our toes and we were still you know we were still green and look here's the thing here's the thing man

this record this band like I have memories of hearing me too dude I was gonna bring that up to machine head just out in the wild

as a kid on the radio like I remember hearing this song Dude, let's give a shout out to, what was the name of this? Man, it's been so long since I lived in the hometown. The Rosemead Rec Center. The Rosemead Rec Center, dude, with the swimming pool because they always played. It is Q 102 or the edge.

They were just feeding a radio station through the speakers because it was the 90s and, you know, it's not like they had satellite radio or, you know, just a Spotify playlist. They could queue up and blare through the speakers. There was no Spotify. kids. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And yeah, they were blaring a 102 on the edge. Yeah.

And so, dude, this was peak grunge explosion. You know, because we were at that swimming pool. So this came out in 94. We were seven years old when this album came out. Yeah. I think we lived at that swimming pool during the summer, dude. Yeah. Yeah, we heard, we heard 16 stone a lot.

We heard, I mean, machine head. We heard machine head. I heard STP quite a bit. I remember STP. Yeah. But so here's the thing, though. Yeah. You said this is the height of grunge, but like that's where the, that's where the

arguments start. You know what I mean? Because a lot of people say that, you know, basically after Nerva... After Cobain passed away, grunge, you know, we entered into the quote, unquote, post-grunge era. And that's what Bush falls under post-grunge. I guess it's kind of like, what's the day the music died and Billy Holiday in? Uh-huh.

All of them. Who else was? I forgot the other people on that airplane. But yeah, that's the argument there. That's the day that music died. Day that Grunge died is when post-Cobain, huh? Wow. The day that Grunge died, perhaps, yeah.

I think a lot of people would say that. So, Bush, let's back up a little bit here because we're making some assumptions that people even know who the hell we're talking about here. But they had mass, mass success, right? Massive appeal. And I think that's kind of what is interesting about them is because they definitely have grunge elements to them, but they have very pop melodic sensibilities. I don't know about pop, but here's a quote. So what I like to do when I'm doing reviews, Q, or when I'm researching for a podcast, especially now that we're so decades out from these records, is find retrospective reviews, where somebody's like reviewing the record decades out. Because that's, same.

That's when you get to kind of see how, what's its legacy, right? Because like, maybe when it came out, you know, the grunge heads were like, you know, this is, this is poser stuff. But, you know. But retrospective reviews like 10th anniversary, 20th anniversary, yeah, the lens is totally different from the perspective of the reviewer. So this is a good little, I think there's a good little summer here. This is Glide magazine. this person says the track's mix of aggression and melody sets the tone for what follows he's talking about everything's in actually he says the track's the track he's referring to everything's in

that was the intro song by the way yeah a collection of songs that are heavy enough to satisfy grunge fans but accessible enough to appeal to a broader audience there you go that's a good that touches on on a few things like it's satisfactory for grunge fans, but accessible for broader audience. Hardcore grunge fans are not looking for broad audience appeal, right? No. Well, that's what they were, I mean, think about it. That's what grunge was like the anti-pop or whatever, or the, you know, it was a reaction

to all the 80s hair metal stuff that had the mass of people. heel, you know what I mean? So yeah, like what you're saying. Like grunge fans were purposely seeking out rock bands that weren't so glam and like commercialized, you know, because by the time you hit the 90s, you had all your, you know, poison and your Van Halen and your, all those other bands, dude, that just were kind of like getting cranked out by the record labels. Yeah. But that's what's funny, though, is by the time you get to Bush. And this is the, the, that the grunge fans would make is that like basically every record label was out there looking for the next nirvana you know what I mean so they were they were trying to define bands that

sounded grunge like but that they could package in a way that was exactly what this guy's saying more had a broader appeal and that's what everybody loved about Bush so I'm going to actually let's let's play a song first yeah yeah I was going to say we could we could keep talking about this forever but let's read the roster real quick or at least the roster at that time Most of you are probably familiar with Gavin Rosdale. He is the lead singer. I don't know why, but I always like to point this out that he used to date Gwen Stefani. I know, I was going to bring that out to why.

For some reason. Who cares? I know, but for some reason. That was a big deal back then. Yeah. For some reason it was. Yeah. They were like a power couple.

Yeah, a rock's power couple. Oh, listen to this, dude. This just jumped out of me. Rostale's goal was for Bush to sign with 4 AD because of his love for their bands, cocto twins, pixies, and throwing muses. Yeah, there you go. I also love cocktoe twins. All right, so the lineup for 16 Stone at least was Gavin Rosdell lead vocals, rhythm guitar, Nigel Pulsford, lead guitar backing vocals, Dave Parsons on bass and Robin Goodrich on drums. I think another thing to point out about this group is that they are from the UK. They are from London.

So, you know, grunge is from Seattle, Q, right? Possibly California, if you like Stone-Till pilots. So here comes these guys from the UK trying to, like, you know, trying to get in on this stuff, you know. Now, that's something I'm actually curious about, dude, because I've never, I mean, I don't, I wasn't, I haven't looked into this, like, purposefully, but, like, were there a lot of grunge bands from the UK coming out? You know, in like the early days of grunge. That's a good question. This is another side tangent, dude. We're never going to listen to our first song at this rate.

Well, that's a good question, Q. And we could try to figure that out while we're listening to our first track. But here we go. Let's play our first track. Let's do it. All right. Oh, Catherine Real. Hello.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Although, as we talked about on our episode, they mixed grunge. and like new wave and stuff like that, right? Yeah. Not whatever, whatever. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to play the first track here.

So again, we're playing some tracks off of 16th stone to start us off. And if you don't know our deal, we don't play singles. Yes. Just throwing that out there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Before we play this track here. That's actually a good point because this is exactly the type of record when we envisioned

this podcast, it was intended to play really popular records that the non-series. the non-singles off very popular records from very popular bands. So this is actually a perfect, you know, showcase of what this podcast was intended to be about. I know we play a lot of really obscure stuff that it wouldn't matter if we played the single anyway because nobody knows about most of the bands we play. But when we play records from bands like Bush, I think this is a perfect example of that. But what's funny is back in the 90s, if you were a fan of Bush, you probably, owned a copy of 16 stone. You probably had the CD, and so you probably did listen to a lot of

these songs. Our older brother had 16th Stone. He definitely did. That's who we heard it from. But the whole point of this podcast is to play the songs that you didn't hear on the radio. And most kids are like a radio. What's the radio? But anyway, all right. All right, I'm going to play track two here. So here we go. The song is called swim. Because we're so far removed from this, and because you and I actually weren't, like you said, we were like seven when this came out. It's hard to, to, you know, try to transport back to that time, figure out what, where the hate came from for this band, right? But part of it, apparently, has to do with just the way that Gavin Rosdale looked, his appearance. Man, isn't that crazy, dude?

He is easy on the eyes, Q. Let's just put it that way. Good looking dude. I'm just going to read this quote. By 1994, the labels were sick of putting up with the nonsense. I think they're talking about the grunge artists, right? Enter a band like Bush. Gavin Rosdale was happy to tour all year round, pose for the cover of Rolling Stone with his shirt off,

and generally do whatever it took to sell records. Oh, come on. He was friendly, docile, and looked like a model. This was the kind of rock star they dreamed about. So basically... Hello, have you seen Kurt Cobain? That man is beautiful, dude. And I'm for real.

Yeah, he's a good-looking dude, no doubt about it. But, like, I think this thing that's putting up with the nonsense, like, you remember all the shenanigans that Kurt and, you know, Dave Grohl and the rest of the, Nirvana dudes got up to when they were, because they, remember, you know, they were just overnight, you know, rock stars, the attention that they got and how it happened so quickly led to, you know, Cobain obviously struggled with all the attention and stuff, right? Like, he wasn't ready for that stuff. And what they're saying is like, Gavin Rosdale's like, yeah, you know, I'm ready to go. I'll take my shirt off. Just tell me when to do it. Dude, and do you think that Gavin walked into the photo shoot for Rolling Stone and said,

guys, I'm taking my shirt off. I don't care what plans you had, Mr. Photographer, I'm taking my shirt off. No. No. It was probably not his idea. Probably not. My guess is the point is that, like, I think the true grunge fans probably very protective of those bands, of the term, of that sound, of the culture and all that.

And then they're probably just reacting to, okay. Obviously, record labels are just trying to commercialize this and, like, you know, take advantage of the sound that was so, like, that came about so naturally and organically, and now they're just trying to, like, manufacture it, you know. But let's just go back to the fact that, okay, so 16 Stone was released in November of 94. Cobain died back in April of that year. So the thing about that, too, man. Yeah, it's fresh.

After Cobain died, like, yeah. You know, Nirvana fans, in particular Nirvana fans, but maybe even grunge fans in general are like, I don't want to hear any fresh grunge at all. Like, you know, I could see that too. Like, because the wound is fresh. Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that because like if you're, if you're a hardcore Nirvana fan, yeah, you're still, you're still recovering from that. Yeah.

And so, and 16 stones recorded in June. January of 94. So they were recording this album before Cobain died. Yeah. Cobain dies, you know, after they're recorded it, maybe. Maybe they're still recording stuff in the studio. I mean, it's just, it's, the timing is, is pretty crazy. And I think it does touch on, on the fact, on, on why maybe they got so much crap. Yeah. So here's an interesting sentence, Q. This is from that same retrospective article from Glyde magazine, which by the way was titled Bush's Master a full debut. And this came out 30 years later, the 30th anniversary.

Yes. Review. Yeah, yeah. So listen to this. I'm just going to read this here. It's actually the very next sentence after that one I read earlier. So the author says this formula referring to like a mix of like grunge plus more, you know, a sound that was more had more broad appeal, right?

This formula is ultimately what led to Bush's success as rock fans were beginning to look for some optimism after Cobain's death earlier that year. Bush fit right into that musical taste shift that saw the rise of bands like Weezer, no doubt, Green Day, and the offspring all in the same year. That's interesting. To think about that, because we're over here saying that like the fans of Nirvana, and stuff weren't ready to move on, but the rest of the broader audience, I guess, they're saying that they were looking for optimism. Yeah. That's interesting, dude.

Because they're like, man, this is it. It's over. We're never going to have good rock in this vein ever again. We need something fresh. We need something different. Yeah. Weas are in no doubt is a good example of like a little bit more, you know, playfulness, you know, optimism.

Right. Anyway, let's talk about the song. So that, again, was called Swim. Always been a fan of his voice. I think he's got a great rock voice. It's got that perfect amount of, like, you know, gravel, grableness, gravel. I mean, but he looks like a model, dude, you know, so I can't even listen to it. You're right.

No, yeah, dude. I love, I love his voice. I always have. I think there's a nostalgic bit to that just because his voice to me is my childhood. Part of it. I mean, not a big part of it, but you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Let's just keep going, dude. Let's keep going to the next track. So I've got two more tracks from 16-tone, 16-stone, and then two tracks from a razor-blade suitcase. So let's just listen to some tunes, dude. We're talking too much. We've got three more, four more songs to play. So here we go. I'm going to go to the very next track.

This song is called Bomb. If I heard that in November of 94, I would feel hopeful about the future of what, you know, bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana started. Yeah. What a great track, dude. Yeah, it's a great. It's a great track. And the song structure, the progression of the song, the storytelling is great.

But like, what's interesting to me and like, we've talked about this so frequently over the last couple of years, the grunge revival that's happening, you know, that post. Rock, you know, alternative rock kind of like grunge revival that's happening. Like you and I are stoked about it because we want to hear more music that sounds like this, you know, like new music that sounds like this. I guess in 94, this is still, this sound is still new, you know what I mean? Right. But this is, I can see how this is like the more like packaged, approachable version of grunge, the sound, I guess.

But it's just damn good, man. It's the structure is great. The hook is great. And then that little outro at the end there where it kind of like opened up a little bit more and just like just a classic kind of grunge riff. It's, yeah, it's an awesome track. And it's like I say, the storytelling is pretty interesting. It's about a, it's inspired by, I'm reading from genius.com to, the lyric website.

Inspired by the frequent IRA bombings in Ireland between the Protestants and the Catholics. These bombs, right? These bombings caused death and injuries, not just to the people fighting, but to innocent bystanders as well. The song tells a story of a man who just goes out shopping and is killed in the bombing as an innocent bystander. So when you look at the lyrics, yeah, it's by the guy that's out shopping for his lover and And then he gets caught up.

He gets caught up in a bombing, you know. That makes you sound kind of casual. Death of a future. Yeah. Goodbye to my friends. Yeah. I think it also somewhat takes the viewpoint of the bomber as well because the chorus it says, kill a man, kill a girl.

And then it switches to you, I killed a man. Sing with me in the gasoline choir, which is an interesting phrasing. Anyway. Now, this song goes right into this article that I just found pretty well, dude. So this is cool. This is actually, this is an article from October of 95. Okay. So one year later, from the spokesman review, so that's Spokane, Washington, which is still, this is, this publication is still running.

It's been going since 1883. Anyways. So the title of this article is. Looks like Pearl Jam Nirvana. Sounds like Pearl Jam Nirvana, but it's really something completely different, parentheses, sort of. Yeah. Now, it talks mostly about Bush and Silverchair, who I honestly haven't really, I don't know much about Silver Jar. Yeah.

It says here, Bush, a late 20-something quartet from Britain, is led by 28-year-old vocalist songwriter with rhythm guitarist Gavin Rosdell, who looks like Pearl Jam's vetter, but sounds more like Nirvana's Cobain. I mean, this guy's got to get his eyes checked. They don't look anything like Nirvana or Pearl Jam. And the group's songs, particularly the hits Everything's In and Little Things, recall Nirvana, what with their loud, soft, loud dynamics, pretty melodies, somewhat whimsical lyrics, and edgy refrains.

Anyways, it goes on it. Actually, they interview Robin Goodrich, the drummer. And this part's interesting here. So drummer Robin Goodwidge, Goodridge, in between bites of a greasy two-egg breakfast, he says, I think our biggest offense will be our next record. Then you'll know what we really sound like. It's easy for people to lump you in with a whole group of other bands. But we'll make another record and we'll stand up on our own.

We'll just be Bush, not Bush that band that sounds like Nirvana or whoever music journalists want to tell us we sound like, like Eddie Vedder or whatever. Okay, so just one more quote here from him that I think is great here. We're only going to do what we do. That's what happened on our first record. We only made the music we wanted to make. Some people must think that we sat there and filtered through loads of records and decided that that's what we wanted to sound like. You can't do that.

So he's trying to defend themselves. Like, we were getting all this crap. And so this is one year later. He's saying, you know, we got all this crap from all these music journals saying that we were just copycatting or whatever. and we were just putting out, we were just writing music and putting it out. And, you know, there's stuff, you know, that's what, this is just, we were just doing what we were doing. Yeah. So that's interesting.

Well, all right. So I'm just going to, we'll just jump to Razor Glade suitcase in because you just teed up perfectly. It's a good time for us to transition then to, to, uh, to that next record, Q. Because like, I guess what he's trying to say is, and I can see how become, you know, being the same year that Cobain died, that they would be. of course, like, yeah, you can escape the comparisons that are going to happen. But I do think Razor Blake's suitcase, it, yeah, it is a little bit more, I think it stands out a little bit more, kind of like what he's saying. And I'm going to play a couple of tracks, two of my favorite bus tracks, dude. So if it's been a while since you've listened to Razor Blade suitcase, very, very long time.

Or if you've ever listened to it. I don't even know if, yeah, I don't even know if I have. Dude, you're going to, you're going to be, you're going to be floored. dude. Because these are some killer tracks. Okay, so this came out in November of 96, so two years later. Let's see if we can still hear that grunge influence hue, or if they've kind of separated themselves and made their own sound. So here you go. This is the very first track off the record. This song is called Personal Holloway.

Goodridge was right, dude. Just wait for a second record to come out. Yeah. You know, really. Really good. Know what we sound like. And there's some great, there's some great singles on this record, man. Grady Fly swallowed, I believe, or a couple of the singles. Yeah, swallowed, greedy fly, bone-driven, and cold contagious.

So something else worth noting. This record was produced by Steve Albini, who is a pretty well-known record producer from that era. So he did stuff like Nirvana, first of all, the breeders, Jesus Lizard, a bunch of other bands I haven't heard of. Cheap trick, here we go. Cheap trick, Bush, of course. Anyway, yeah, oh man, you know, we were talking about British bands earlier. British rock and American rock. You know, you have to talk about Oasis, right, and blur.

And when you search, by the way, when you search grunge UK bands, it's basically just Bush. I haven't even recognized in the other ones, like, when you search for it. All right. Yeah. Catherine, Cathern, Cathern, Wheel is the only other one that really comes up. But anyway. Yeah.

But, yeah, I think there's still that whiff of, like, the grunge distortion in the song, but, like, for sure. I mean, dude, I think, I mean, honestly, I think, oh, yeah, dude, here's a, look at the critical reception. Here you go. Okay. Andy Gill from the Independent stated that portions of the album are very reminiscent of Nirvana. citing songs such as swallowed and bone driven as irresistible reminders of nirvana. That sounds like someone who still isn't over the death of Cupid. We're not going to play because it's single, but I do think swallowed was pretty,

okay, pretty spot on to Nirvana. But I think the way that that's put, you know, like, yeah, everything reminds me of, you know, my late wife, whatever. It sounds like you're still mourning. Well, yeah, so here's another thoughtco.com. This is a history of post-grunge rock article says, and this is talking exactly to you that right here. Looking for a way to capitalize on the trend, which was jump started by Nirvana Smell like Teen Spirit. Record labels started signing bands that mimicked these groups sonic identity.

Three of the most popular of these sound-alike bands were Bush, candlebox, and collective soul. Perhaps not surprisingly, because these bands seemed to be merely ripping off a trend, rendy sound. Oh, God, dude. Critics dismissed them as bandwagon jumpers. I mean, yeah, I would be pretty upset. I mean, like, if Goodrich is, if what Goodrich says is true. I mean, I think it's just.

Yeah, dude. I would be upset. How do you, it's hard to, it's hard to know with the motivations of the band. I mean, I can see the motivations of the label for sure of like, let's sign this fucking dream belt, Gavin Rosdale and his band will sell million records. So, like, I was reading this other article, too. This was from a Rolling Stone article from around that time called Nirvana wannabes. That was the name of the, God damn, dude.

Give it a risk. They were really laying it on thick. But they're talking about, listen to this, man, that's funny. And the very, the opening of this article, I guess, is from the perspective of maybe the journalist was at a concert or something like that of one of their shows. I'm going to jump him. I swear to God announces a barely legal girl in a breeder's t-shirt as she and her friends rushed the stage at New York's CBGB. As in like, you know, they're waiting for him to come on state so they can jump him. But, you know, hey man.

Jump his bones, too. Yeah, they were going to jump his bones. Bag of them bones. That was my Alison Shane's reference. Nice, nice. But like, so fucking what? You know, that he looks, that he looks like a model, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. The point they're trying to make is exactly what the label and all the stuff that we're saying, leading up to the point is like, here's a grunge band that we can make into mega pop stars. You know what I mean? Mega stars, right? Yeah. And Gavin is willing to come along. They're saying that they were willing to tour whenever and wherever.

Maybe that wasn't the case for Nirvana. willing to pose shirtless for Rolling Stone. Yeah, Cobain and them struggled with the attention and the rise to success, right? Yeah, and Nirvana would like just completely write off a performance during a concert. If someone in the audience did something Cobain didn't like, they would just dick off the rest of the time. Exactly. But that's what made them anti-establishment grunge, you know? Yeah, awesome in my mind, dude, I think.

Yeah, exactly. They didn't give a fuck. But yeah, and if you know, if you know the story behind Nutshell by Allison Chains, that song, that heartbreaking tragic song, if you know the lyrics and the history behind it, it's exactly that. It's like struggling to keep up with the success, you know, of these crunch bands, like how quickly it came upon them, right? So yeah, Bush is like, hey, we're ready, we're down to clown. We're ready to get thrown into the limelight. You know what I mean? All right. All right. So we're going to jump. to our final track here. This song is a great song to close us out on. So, all right, so here we go. Here's our final track for the evening. Again, this is off a razor-related suitcase.

This song is called Insect Kin. Burned, then, dude. What did you think? I loved it, man. I'm really good. And what do you know? Rostal can't help if he sounds a little bit like, come in, okay?

As far as like, I don't think he does. Delivery. But, you know, but I get it, though. I get the criticism, especially just two years out from the death of grunge, dude. The loud, soft, loud dynamics. Well, what I like about this song is like, man, he almost seems like there's this tension that's building up like in the verse. Yeah.

It almost sounds like he's getting more and more upset and stuff as he's delivering his lines. So speaking of Cobain's death, this song. song is rumored to be about Courtney Love. Yeah, dude, I'm just, I was just reading up on that. Apparently, Rosdale, did they date? Apparently they dated, yeah. Yeah, that's crazy, dude. If you don't know Corny Love, you know, was Cobain's wife.

They had a child together. Yes. Yeah, exactly. What's her name? We should know the name of, her name's Courtney. No, Cobain's daughter, but. Bien, something Bean? Francis Bean, yeah.

So there's a line in this song, You're the Factor. And people seem to be referring to that, or think that that's a reference to what a lot of people thought was that love was kind of a negative influence on Cobain and possibly led to his... Love as an corny, not just love in general. Cochernary love, yeah. Yeah, because, no, because, yeah, no, you're right, too, because... So that's something.

And some of the lyrics, too, are saying... They mentioned Vicodin, which isn't a pain medication. Red Stripe, which is a brand of lager beer. Rosdale explained, these were pretty much what I lived on when my stomach was really bad. I mean, I wonder if he's also saying, like, Courtney Love leads to depression and Vicodin addiction and chugging beers. Yeah, W. Do. But like, there's also a line here, build the life out of all of this Simtext. Apparently, that's, SimTex is a kind of plastic explosive, apparently.

Oh yeah, actually, dude, now I know that's SimTex, yeah, dude. I throw those in Call of Duty. Simtext remains. Anyway, Courtney Love has long been subject to rumors that she, in fact, had plastic surgery. So this could be a reference to her against. It's just funny because, like, if you guys don't want to be compared to Nirvana and Cobain, maybe don't write songs about Courtney Love and Cobain's death. Well, he doesn't straight up saying, like, it's not like the first lyric.

in the song is this song's about Courtney Love. Maybe he did that when he was on stage. Like, this next song's about Courtney. But it's interesting that they dated because, I mean, you know, come on, dude. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, for sure. So what I like about Bush, what I've always liked about Bush, maybe that's what it is, dude. Maybe I like the grunge that's, that's, you know, melodic and a little bit, you know, packaged up with a nice bow on top.

But to be fair, I don't think that this is that. I mean, I know that they get compared to that they get, that that's the main critique is, it's just like. I agree. I mean, maybe more the singles, you know, maybe the singles. Yeah, yeah, no, that's true. Let's talk about the singles. Glissorine. Come on now.

Yeah, true. Calm down was another one. This is off of a. And Machine Head, dude, all three of those. I am a suck for Machine Head. I know you don't like Machine Head, but I like Machine Head. No, I like Machine Head. But no, but Machine Head, Glaceryneenene and Come Down, all coming on.

their debut out. And Glistrarian is kind of a ballot almost. In November of 94. So a few months after Rukovanzi, yeah, dude, if I heard those, yeah, I would be like this, come on, this is just commercial. Yeah. Radio-friendly, just cranking out garbage. Yeah.

But the rest of the record, as you like to preach about on No Pillar. And dude, I was going to say, hey, solid stuff. This is why we started this podcast in the first place. Yeah. So let me ask you this, Q, with this song. With this song in particular, guess what else came out in 1996? And let me see if you agree with me on this. Start guessing, you'll never guess.

I think I know. All right. Just because I was reading a bunch of, I don't know, pixies? No. No, no. Telephone by Spoon. Don't you think this song had some early spoon vibes? Same year.

This is what was in the water, you know, in the mix of the sound of rock. at that time. And I think Spoon before they kind of solidified their their unique sound and stuff, because Spoon, obviously, they perfected their brand of indie rock a couple albums later. But like for Telephono and a series of Sneaks, and even the EP that came up before that, what was the EP? Soft effects. Soft effects.

Yeah. Yeah. Had a lot of this kind of guitar sound where it was kind of an all. heavy alternative rock kind of guitar tone. Yeah, dude, you're right. And, yeah, Spoon, I doubt Spoon was getting any, any crap for their music. Probably because somebody fucking knew who they were, dude. Yeah, and also it didn't sound like grunge.

And this, you know what, dude, how are you going to slice it? This is grunge. Yes, especially on both personal honoring and insect can, both the two tracks we played off a is a blade suitcase. There is a like definitive grunge guitar tone and riff that happens in both of them where it's like, up, there's the grunge. You know what I mean? Yeah. But the rest of the song, I don't think. And now I feel like we're just like, this is the classic thing that happens with anytime you're trying to talk about rock music, it's just you just end up trying to dissect and, you know, figure out what labels that they're on to something. Yeah. Because what, you

what is grunge, right? A lot of people would say grunge is these four bands, the four big names, and that's it, you know? Right, right, dude. Well, I think this is a good way to wrap it up, dude. So going back to that article I was reading earlier from the spokesman. So this is from, I think he's named Josh. Josh Freedom DeLock was the article writer.

I'm only putting out his name because I'm going to quote him in a second here. But so back to Goodridge, he says, my influences are diverse. I'm far more in tune with punk bands, but we don't sound like a punk band. That's my point. My influences were punk bands, but we don't sound like Rancid. And then Josh says, actually, Rancid's much-anticipated new ska-punk album and out-come-the-wolves sounds a lot like the clash. And Goodrich says, exactly.

We don't sound like the bands that influenced us. That's as honest as I can be about that. And that's the end of the article, dude. So I guess the whole point is Goetardt is just trying to just nail the final, you know, hammering the final nail and say like, as me being a member of this band, I am not, my major influences are not grunge bands. We're not trying to sound like our influences. Yeah. Otherwise, we'd sound like rancid because I'm a huge punk, you know, lover. Yeah.

And I'm a big rancid fan. So, yeah. I think Goetarderj is trying to say like, who care? Stop. Yeah. We don't need to put these labels on us. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of bands fall under that where it's just like, you know.

For sure. Because it's like, can you just talk about our music and stop trying to put us in a box, right? Like, yeah, I get that. And that's the thing, man. I mean, that's what critics and reviewer, that's what they're. That's what they do. Yeah, that's what they do. That's kind of what they're.

what they're trained to do and what they, you know, are looking to do is put bands in boxes and stuff. Like, I get that. But I can see how that would be frustrating as hell, you know, as a, for sure, as a musician where it's like, can you just, can you just critique our music, you know, and stop comparing us? But no, I get it, man. Nirvana was such a, such a cultural freaking touch point. That's like, of course, man, that's going to happen. But yeah, dude, I've always loved Bush. I think Razor Blade's suitcase and 16 stones. or two of the great 90s records, man. So it's just funny when you see articles on Rollingstone.com that's like a reader's poll of the 10 worst bands of the 90s and Bush is listed on that poll alongside bands like Creed.

Come on now. Limp biscuit and Hansen. Let's come on, guys. But let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's. Let's look at this. Dave Matthews band number 10. Ace of Bass number nine. Spin Doctors number eight.

Bush number seven. Come on now. Who are you going to blowfish? Nirvana's on. Okay. That's hilarious. Nirvana is on this fucking pole. Nirvana's on.

Nirvana's number five. And this is the, okay, this is a reader's poll. Right. But that's just funny. Reader's poll. When this came, okay, readers poll and this came out in 2013, rolling stone release. this poll in 2013. Wow, man. Okay.

Well, Creed's number one, which is, that's, that, and number two is nickel back. That's fair. That makes sense, yeah. But it's just funny. I would, yeah, I would not expect Nirvana to be on that list. So they put Bush and Nirvana on that. Wow. Okay, well, there you go, man.

What more do you need to hear? They were hated as equally as Nirvana and also loved perhaps more so. Well, here's, let's just read this real quick. because the person who put out this Reader's Poll article in Rolling Stone was also taken aback under Nirvana he says what the fuck happened here did the members of warrant motley crew poison and bang tango come together to stuff the ballot boxes who hates nirvana okay yeah so this he's basically just trying to like be there there's no this the article writer didn't even try to justify it he's just like no I don't know what happened here sorry guys

That's funny because like he's trying to go out of his way to be like, guys, this is not, I didn't write this. This is not my picks. I didn't do this. But it perhaps tells you something about the listeners or the readers of Rolling Stone back in the 2010s. You wonder if Rolling Stones readership skewed older or younger. Yeah. Because I, you know, 2013, I mean, by the time you're there, you're past like the garage rock revival, like about the time. of 2013 hits, strokes had their popularity come and go, interpol bands like that. So like that wave

of music had happened. A lot of these articles that crap on Bush, they're all talking about, to me it sounds like the critique is more aimed at the record labels, which I think is more, it's more fair because what they're saying is like, here's an interesting quote. They're calling it a calculated cynical response to a legitimate stylistic shift in rock music. But that's, to me, is the thing. It's like, that's the shift that happened, right? Like, you always wonder like, man, the fact that Allison Chains, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, Pearl Jam, are all making this style of music around the same time.

It's just like they're saying. This is just the shift that happened in rock, you know? Sometimes it's hard to figure out how it happened, why it happened. Oh, and that goes back to what Goodridge was saying. Like, we weren't just, we didn't get, just come together and, and think about, and pick out records. Exactly. Filter through loads of records and decided, hey, okay, this is what we want to sound like. No, it doesn't happen that way.

There's no, it's not calculated. Yeah, exactly. Well, that was, dude. That was a good discussion, I think. I'm glad we circled back around eight years later and decided to, to drop a Bush episode. Yeah. And if, you know, if it's similar to what happened last time, pretty sure we had some people reaching out to us and disagree with everything we said. So yeah, police feel free to do that.

I think grunge, people have opinions about grunge, man. So feel free to. Yeah, I think our episode on, it was a Pearl Jam? Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Someone, I reach out. I think somebody was very quick to point out that Stone Temple Pilots isn't grunge.

And that's fine. If you want to talk strictly about grunge is only the bands that came out of Seattle, fine. You know what I mean? Great. Right. Great point. You know? All right.

Well, that's it. Yeah, I'm glad we did Bush finally. They're one of my favorite 90s rock bands. Always have been. I've been listening to them since I was, you know, a wee lad listening to rock music for the first time. If you think about it that way, Bush was one of the first, one of the first, one of the, one. of the early, like, exposure to Grunge that I had alongside some of the other bands that were on heavy rotation back then, obviously.

But I'm just saying very formative years were shaped listening to 16-selling for sure. Machine Head. I remember listening to Machine Head all the time back in the day, along with smashing pumpkins and all the rest of them. So anyway, all right. Well, thanks for listening as always. You can find us on the Pantheon Podcast Network if you want to discover music-heavy podcasts, pantheonpodcast.com.

And you can reach out to us on Instagram to search for no filler and we'll pop right up. Thanks as always for listening. My name is Travis. And I'm quitting. You all take care. Up holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point.

our Holtz Holiday Shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. Hi, I'm Sophia Loper Caro, host of the Before the Chorus podcast. We dive into the life experiences behind the music we love. Artists of all genres are welcome. And I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks, like glass animals. I guess that was the idea, was to try something personal and see what happened. And Japanese breakfast. I thought that the most surprising thing I could offer was an album about joy.

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