No Jumper - Berner on Beating Cancer, Who Owns Cookies, Josh from RAW Beef & More

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Berner talks about his health, Cookies, business, new music, new book, and more. ----- Shout out to all our members who make this content possible, sign up for only $5 a month https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNNTZgxNQuBrhbO0VrG8woA/join Promote Your Music with No Jumper - https://nojumper.com/pages/promo CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! https://nojumper.com NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5tesvmDS8h50LkjnSAWMOs?si=j6sJD6DkR4mk5NZZWnlK7g Follow us on SNAPCHAT https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4z4yCTjwXa4an6sBGIe7m5 iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/nojumper http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22bro on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumber coolest podcast in the world, and we got the legend burner in the building. Yes, sir. How you feeling, man? I feel good. Yeah, it's good to have been here. I finished the book this morning. What did you think about it? I'm glad you actually really read it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, had to do it. It didn't really take that long, honestly. Some people might skim through or have an assistant pick some moments out and so the fact you read tight. I just feel like it's kind of like disrespectful to interview somebody and not read the book or at the very least get like a really good outline from somebody who works for you, something like that, you know, because I feel like the interviews. got to like go past the book or at least be able to talk about it effectively.

You don't want to read the first page or the last page and just trying to come up with conversation. That wouldn't be tight. For sure. So, okay, what made you want to write a book? Honestly, like, when I beat cancer, when I got done with cancer, I'm like, I really want to do things I've always dreamed about doing. So a book, movie, like, elevate the storytelling.

I've already got like 46 albums out. So like, yeah. I'm going to keep making music because I'm passionate about. I'm here to do that right now. But I feel like, you know, I think that I want to kind of elevate the level of storytelling. Was part of it like just having kids and thinking like shit, if the cancer had taken me out, there wouldn't necessarily be like a blueprint for them to understand me? No, because I thought like I teach my kids very hands on.

I feel like it was more like, you know, when I see people, my fans are like, my fans either tell me your music helped me get through a lot of shit or I would love to get some game or advice from me. So I'm like, you know, I think I owe it to my supporters. We've been through a lot together to kind of lay the blueprint out for them and at least let them know how I got to where I was at and what I did right and what I did wrong. Right, definitely. I mean, also, like, from your perspective, was the important part about writing the book just telling your story or was it telling like the entrepreneurial story? Because obviously you focus more on that side of things. Like, you kind of just mentioned like, I have a kid like, you know, in the book. It's like you don't like document that whole path of like having a kid. It's more focused on the brand while still telling your story as well. Yeah, it was kind of bit of both. It's like, you know, to tell people like, like I said, how I got to where I met. But also I like to tell people like, a lot of it just starts with a big idea and a big drawing.

dream and like kind of giving them ways you actually see that dream through a lot of people have dreams a lot of people have ideas and just like they don't really know what to do with that right so i think it was more like my story but like also like a little time for inspiring us entrepreneurs out there right yeah because like i i remember reading this book about j z i forget the name but i you know they're telling the story of how basically j z was the first dude to really represent this hustler archetype in hip hop which is kind of like being r or how old are you uh for 43 in October, so I'm 42. So we're like the same age.

So like that to us is like that's always been there because it was since we were kids, you know. But like really he was kind of like the dude that created that mentality. Like nobody had ever really came in the rap game and said like, hey, I'm a hustler like from out the streets. I made all this money off drugs. And here I am. And I'm a rapper. And also like here's how I spread my wings using music as a main platform. Because a lot of the reason why I still make music, not because I just love to make music.

It's almost like my former therapy. but like it's a big it's a big platform for me to kind of promote other things as well you know like and that's been the cheat code I feel like for cookies is I had the music as well yeah but what I say that about Jay-Z to say that like maybe it's not totally clear to the average person but you're basically that for weed brands like you were the

first one through the door really one the first for sure yeah and that's pretty crazy because when I think about it every state I go to every city I go to there's somebody handing me a bag of some weed and usually you could kind of like draw a pretty straight line from that to cookies in terms of the types of names that people are using the types of packaging the way that they're trying to stand out the types of connections that they're trying to make I mean you kind of wrote the blueprint for all that I feel like I say this in the most humble way but one of my fans actually put this in my air when I was on tour last month they're like look

whether people fuck what cookies or they hate cookies you kind of motivate them I'm like how's that He's like, well, because some people are like, I want to do what burned it. I want to kind of figure out to make a brand like a burned it. Or like, cookies for, I want to do bigger than that. Either way, you're part of that conversation in both sides, right? For people, I f*** you, people who don't what you saw. If I, you know, you look at Apple. I'm sure there's many more phones out there better than Apple, right?

But they're a first. And they're still relevant. They're still doing the thing. I feel like, I feel like, man, like, cookies was the first to the table. We planted a flag all around the world. And I feel like, I really fucking it may sound weird for people to be able to. here, I feel like I'm just getting started. I actually really saw, I grew like this really, really, really fast.

I'm okay, what did I do wrong along that way? I'm still alive. I'm still here. I know exactly what I did wrong. I'm about to dial that bitch all the way in. And I felt really good about that. I feel like, I'm just getting started. Yeah.

And, you know, like reading about how you have so many fans that, like, have you tattooed on their bodies and shit like that. And then not to get too morbid, but I'm going through and watching some of your older music videos. And I'm seeing the one of you and Nipsey from 10, 12 years ago, whatever that was. The rest of piece of Nipsey. Yeah, and I'm just kind of realizing, like, you know,

in much the same way that I think that, like, Nipsey's legacy is just not going anywhere. Like, he's just going to be somebody that has this, like, unbelievable reputation and influence culturally for a long time because he's kind of like just became the guy who gets the credit for what it was to be an independent rapper. 100%. Creating businesses and making something like yourself.

And I can't help but feel like you kind of like, like, you know, and I say this just because you're flirting with death quite a bit in the book because you're talking about the cancer, scaring everything. And I'm watching the video, you're Nipsey. And I'm thinking like, bro, like you have a reputation and like a legacy that is just going to go way beyond your actual life. Like I think you're kind of just going to be the guy who represents that for the cannabis

game in general. Yeah, that's fucking great to hear. That's what my goal is. I'm like, look, money is one thing. all you really have when you die is your legacy and you know I'm like I just really want that more anything because I feel like may I've been working hell hard and sometimes as an underground artist you only get that prop you know what I'm saying on the music side you don't want you don't get the props you think you deserve or want and I feel like in the canvas space when you

become so big and you kind of up here all it is like shots every day people just taking shots people just you're a big easy target so I feel like you know people only give us credit for what we brought to the game I feel like that's another good reason why I wrote the book is Like, you know, cookies is something that's been here for a lot of us. I help birth to a lot of brands. I help give a lot of people a game. I help use my platform to build a lot of people. So I just really want that kind of like in history, you know?

Does it bother you that the cannabis community seems so focused on criticism and knocking people down and stuff like that? And I think a large part of that is because it's so accessible to people that everybody's kind of gunning for their spot. So you're like this big, obvious, easy target, right? For sure. I'm a huge target. But you know what's weird about that? It's the cannabis community online. Yeah.

Because when I'm in person, it's all love no matter why. I've never had any problems anywhere. I never even had anyone come up to like, you, this. It's all love because, bro, I've done a lot of work out here. And I've been relevant for 20 years now, right? So it's like that's a hard task. So I feel like the campus community online is very bitter. But in person, like when I pop up to certain kind of events or stuff,

I don't really freak it at all. They're like, oh, shit, you're here. Yeah. What's up? Like, much love. So I feel like it's all good. I feel like we just like, it's a very. very hard business to be and I feel like it's been very, very tough since it went wreck and

shit, she's been changing left and right. So I feel like it's mostly love and it's all love in person. I feel like online there's criticism. That's, that comes with, you know, that comes with being being big. Yeah. I mean, podcasts and very similar because it's like the kind of thing where when I came into it, it was such a small pool of people that were doing it. I was thinking about the other day that I used to listen to Mark Marin interview like random celebrities that wasn't even that interested in just because there weren't that many podcasts out. And I was kind of, obsessed with the platform or with the medium. And now when I look at it, it's just, it's so flooded with so many different personalities.

Everyone has a podcast. Everyone's trying to do interviews. You've been consistent for how long. That's what I'm here. You've been consistent for how long. You really take this shit serious. And you're, like I said, you're a real journalist. You read the book.

You could have me come on here and talk a couple of shit, do a couple clip farms or whatever. You really care about this. You really care about the game, hip-hop and whatnot. So I fuck with that. I appreciate that. My mom's a librarian. So it's kind of have to, yeah, she would hate me if I didn't. Yeah, you probably grew up reading books.

Yeah, no, 100%. But, like, I mean, so now podcasting, everybody feels like they can do it. And there's just so many different personalities. It feels like it's kind of watered down. And it's kind of very similar to when I see you talking about the weed game because the weed game. It's very similar. When you were coming in, you're having a brand was this very unique idea. And now it's like, I can't even imagine how somebody in the Canada Space is able to stand out.

It's insane, bro. Everyone has a brand, but I encourage you. I really want people to follow their dreams to build their brands. And I feel like make sure you have purpose behind it. Make sure you have things that make you different. Make sure you stay consistent. I try to do podcasting. I'll build a crazy-ass building in the Bay.

20,000 square foot building. Put about $9 million to it. I think I told you about that space. I have everything I need to do podcasts. It's too hard. Really? If I'm going to do it, if I'm going to do it right, to be super consistent, I don't have time for it.

So I feel like, you know, I got to give you props because it's not easy to keep a podcast rolling. You have to be very consistent. You have to stay on top of trains. You have to stay on top of who's popping, what's going on out there. So a lot of people are trying to do it. I feel like just like the weekend, people will kind of come in and will allow. I feel like I'm surprised here you say that because you say you stay on the phone all the time.

And when I've seen you out there on the phone, I was like, oh, okay, he's like actually living that. And I feel like to me, podcasting sucks up so much my energy that then I like avoid just doing random phone calls. But I do see that as something that most of the most of the most. successful people I know are just on the phone talking to everybody. 5 a.m. no matter what, I'm up. I'm on the phone because in 5 a.m. out here is 8 a.m. in the East Coast and the, you know, different time in Europe. So I feel like, you know, at the end of day, you have to touch your business and all different levels of it. You have to make sure you're part of everything moving and that requires being on the phone. Well, you got calls scheduled all day? Or are you just like thinking,

like, who's the rapper that I haven't talked to in a month that is an important connection for me? No, it's not even rappers. I think like I have a call schedule for sure, but it's like I'll be sitting there like Seattle. Call Seattle. What's up, bro? How the thing's going over there? I want to get you some new jane. I'll sit there and think, Thailand.

I was going on Thailand. I call my partner over there. Oh, this, I want to call my boy in Spain. Like I just think about things all day and just check the box. I feel like when you're when your partnerships, like we are, you have to touch people a lot. You have to call them, remind them you're in business. Talk about what's going on. Talk about what's going wrong.

Try to fix things. Put out fire. So it's like I sit there kind of like a, my girl calls me an iPad, baby. I'm like an iPad baby I'm like an iPad baby. We're laying and watch your TV. Oh, I just keep digging of things. I guess it's just part of the game. Mine just keeps spinning. When you can't

make a call though, do you have like a little list of people that you're going to call the next day or whatever? No, I just have a good memory. Oh, really? Yeah. So I can't relate to that. Memory's tough. I got a good memory and I smoke weed all day, but yeah, yeah. No, it's okay. So it's funny you mentioned that because like, I've very much laid off the weed

over the last couple months. And when I'm reading your book, I'm actually like through the first couple chapters and you're just just being in these dispensaries as a young dude and just the smell of just being in these like rooms and shit and I'm feeling high as I'm reading it like somehow it's like triggering something in my brain that's making me feel like I'm high which is kind of a weird feeling because I've been trying to fucking cut down a lot but I mean to what extent were you conscious of that that the book does kind of read like a like a love letter to weed I definitely conscious of you're married to the game so I want to show my love to it and I feel like also if you listen to audiobook I start off by sparking a jay You know what I'm saying? I sparking the Jay and then. Oh, you read it? Yeah.

Okay. When I downloaded the book to read, I briefly thought of that. It was like, if I download this to listen to, it's going to be some random guy reading. No, it was me and I go lie. It was very tough to read a full book, you know, six hour books, six hour, 40 minutes. How may it take you a couple days? It took me like four or five days. Yeah.

And like, I'm just not used to reading like that. I got the book in front of him. I'm sitting there going crazy. And they don't realize that you have to get every sentence right. Oh, yeah. You can't, you can't have a little hiccup. I'm kind of slurring a lot in my book because I'm not really used to reading out loud and I just like happen to hear myself.

Like right now I could talk clear because I don't have the headphones. You start hearing yourself if you're questioning if you sound right. It's kind of weird. There's a lot of different to rap and I read my own audiobook and I was definitely highest during the whole process. Yeah, yeah. But, okay, so when you, so has your relationship with weed changed it all over the years? I love weed do.

Like everywhere I go, when I touch down the city, I have people in that city bringing me their favorite weeds that they're proud of. When I go to different countries, I went to Boer Boa and Morea, right? Like over there in Tahiti and shit like that. I don't want to fly with no Uyghis. I don't go to jail on my honeymoon. As soon as I got there, I brought an empty jar. I took a picture of my, so who's going to fill this for me?

Within 30 minutes, I had wheat. Like really good. We had an ounce on the island. Not easy to get, right? I feel like for me as like the young stoner kid that you probably got to know in the book is like, it's tight that I can go to anywhere in the world. Within 30 minutes had the best weed that place has offered because of what we did in the game. Like that's just some like a natural stone or flex shit for me.

I feel like that's cool as a pothead, take all the business aside, take the money aside. As a someone that loves me, it's cool. I can get it everywhere I go. I'm going to get the best of it and people want to showcase what they have to me. I'm here in L.A. and I got people buzzing me. I want to show you this. I want to show you that.

I want to get, I love that shit. It's part of the culture for me. When's the last time you took a day off? I don't take days off. You never went, I mean, from weed. Oh, from weed? The last time I took a day off from weed was, the flight to Tahiti.

Okay. It was probably about 13 hour. And you were able to get to sleep and everything? It didn't have that much of a hold on you? Yeah. When I got cancer, I had to take a little break. Okay.

Because the surgery, I had like a big surgery and you can't smoke, but they said it was going to be like two weeks to, two weeks to a month. It was like a smoke could call my doctor a day five. I'm like, look, bro. Got this puff a little, but he's like, all right, little puff, burner, a little puff. I'm like, cool, I'd start smoking big again.

I mean, at one point in the book, you're describing that breathing felt like you were swallowing razor blades. Yeah, cancer is serious. That makes me feel like I would not want to smoke weed if breathing felt like razor blades. But when you're breathing like normal temp, like weeds got a little hot, so it doesn't feel like that. But it's just say you have cancer, you're on chemotherapy. If you walk outside this room right now and you go outside, it feels like your throat is full razor blades. You can't breathe like normal air. It's fucking weird.

And you can't drink anything that's not room temp. Really, yeah. Yeah, you can't drink like a even room temple hurt. Like I had to drink warm water. So, you know, now I'm obsessive cold beverages. I'm like, I get a cold beverage. I'm like, I get cold beverages. I got to get cold water because like I drink warm water for like six or seven months.

Yeah. I keep seeing these viral tweets that people get off. Like apparently this sentiment is deserving of a lot of retweets and stuff. But people love to say no successful person smokes weed or I don't know a single successful person who smokes weed. That's not a real. people that smoke weed, not even in our industry, just talking about, like, everyone.

You can imagine. Yeah, yeah. Doctors, athletes, fucking accountants, fucking actors. I mean, you name it. Even a lot of people that you wouldn't think smoke. Like, Vlad always tells me that he smokes weed every day. Yeah, he smokes big. Vlad's the most neurotic, like, detail-oriented person you'll ever meet in your entire life.

And he has a load. He even has his own fucking brand and shit. He's like, yo. The last time I smoked was a Vlad TV moon rock pre-roll. Yeah, that's what he just gave me. You got it too. Okay. I thought, you know, it's no different than anything else.

I was people can pop at all. They drink alcohol. I mean, it's all about how you handle your shit. I know hell of pot heads. I got pregnant, including me. Yeah. I mean, especially in your world, it's probably like the vast majority of successful people that you know.

But have you ever felt like weed was cutting into your productivity at all and that you needed to maybe at least like lessen the amount? I feel like it's the opposite because like when I go lock in the studio night, right? Like I bring out a variety of new wheat. Like all this shit we're kind of phenoning. All this shit we're creating. I smoke a lot because I get nervous. I'm tripped out like

hearts being you kind of get racy you start focusing on riding you I feel like it gets me it gets me anxious at work I don't I mean if you're smoking like Mexican brickweed or something like that maybe we'll put you down whatever but like the shit we smoke is like it kind of gets you going a little bit get your mind spinning everything too yeah I don't know there's part of me

that feels like when I have a day where I got to do three interviews in a row that smoking weed in the morning is just going to throw me off and just slow me down a little bit so I usually like keep it towards the end of the day but yeah sometimes I wonder if that's kind of in my head. I feel like a big meal will slow me down more than like some weed well like I wake up a smoke, you know?

Really? Do you own, what, you try not to eat too much throughout the day? I haven't eaten no food yet. Really? And it is 3.30. Yeah, I have my meal like at 5. That's only when I'm being good though. Sometimes I'm on some bullshit, but like most of the time when I'm working, I usually eat at 5 p.m.

Really? And that's like one meal for the day? Yeah, like if I'm on program, I'll eat like some fruit and nuts like around like 12 noon or 1. Just kind of hold me over. I'll eat my meal in five. When I'm on some bullshit, I just eat whatever I want. Is that the diet that you've been on for a long time? Or is that you, like, trying to take care of your health?

That's just me just understand that we shouldn't be putting all this shit in our body. Like, if you think about back in the days, fools that have to go hunt, gather, prepare, then eat. Like, they weren't just grubbing three times a day. Yeah. I didn't eat until, like, 3 p.m. yesterday and ate, like, a significant enough meal that I didn't have to eat for the rest of the day. And it was a weird feeling.

That might have been the only time of the whole life where I just ate one big meal. It feels good, bro. You start feeling sharp when you do this shit like that. Yeah. You ever fast for a full day? Yeah. For the colonoscopy. Yeah.

Colonoscopy, I've had to do that. And also just like, I'm trying to get to this three-day fast. I've been hearing a lot about that, resetting your cancer, shit like that. It's shit like that. Really? Yeah, because there's supposedly cells that, like, start repairing themselves after a couple days and shit like that. It's going to be tough. I have to kind of go somewhere to kind of focus on that.

But I feel like it shouldn't be hard. I mean, food is just all mental. Yeah. Yeah. Because once you fast for a day, it really makes you think about the fact that that feeling you have throughout the day of like, oh, my God, I need something right now or else I'm going to just not be able to be productive or whatever. That's really just your mind playing tricks on you.

It's just us being used to having what we want. Yeah. I saw Kevin James on Joe Rogan saying that I think he was like a 45 day fast. That's insane. I'm cool with three. That's crazy. Yo, three would be insane because even like me making it through my most recent one day fast before the last time I had colonoscopy was like, that was like,

that was pretty intense. Are you guys screen? Yeah, I've done it twice in my life. Bro, like, I've said this on Vlad too this morning. Like, bro, like cancer, as far as cancer killers, colon cancer is a number one killer for people under 50. Yeah. Especially for like African Americans and Latinos.

Like, that shit is just crushing people right now. It's all based on the food we eat. Yeah. I think a lot of people like us are young and moving fast. They're probably ashamed to go against colonoscopy. It's like, that shit will save your life to save my life, dude. And I guess like insurance won't pay for it for most people until you hit 50 who cares just so old you spend money on Gucci and Prada and Louie you spend money at the

club you spend money on cars and gold like yeah you should check out but even you you got it you know 15 years before you were to turn 50 so I mean that's insane I found my shit I found my shit through a blood test yeah which is even more lucky because they told you that you had what like six months or a year or if I would have went another six months with it then I would have like a year left at max and like I met people on my journey and popular people you know that were in the same position that are in all here You know, rest and peace of the Inge Boys. I don't know if you know that guy is.

Very popular guy on social or stuff. He was in the same position as me. He's no longer here. It's like it's really sad to see that shit. Yeah, no, definitely. That's fucking crazy. So do you feel 100% in terms of your health at this point? You're like completely back to normal or is there still anything?

I mean, I'm worried about it because like this shit was very real and you can definitely come back. I do screening every three months. Yeah. So I'm waiting for my test results right now. It's like, it's like, it's a trip. You'll be chilling, live in normal life, and then you get to call out, you know, you got to do our tests. Because at a certain point in the book, you say that the chemo was so bad

that you didn't finish the chemo. I tapped out. You were just basically like, listen, I can't keep going. I couldn't do it, dude. Like, it's just like my nerves were a fucking shot. I could feel like I was touching a fucking weird knives and just touching something soft. And I just started feeling really, really beat up by it. Because, you know, I think that the one thing I didn't even put in the book is like,

so my mom died from chemo-related complications, right? They put a port in her chest and it busted in the main vein. She was supposed to have like 10 years to live. And because it had busted in the main vein, they couldn't do chemo. And so she died like in like four months. So when they told me how to do chemo, they wanted to put a port. I'm like, fuck not and put no port. So we had to do it, bro.

They had to put a pick line in my vein, a line that goes all right into my chest. When you were describing that, I'm like, what the fuck did they put in my vein that would go through my whole body? Skinny-ass thing. And like it goes all the way up and they have to pull it out. It was really weird, bro. But point being is I had to. get very, very heavy doses. So I would do in one day what people would do in two weeks.

Because when you have a drip, kind of just drips some medicine to you, right? Since I wasn't willing to do that, they just slammed me the big dose. Yeah. They're fucking me off with that. I was like, I was not right, bro. Wow. It was not good. That's crazy.

Mm-hmm. So I just quit. I was like, I'm done with this year, bro. If it's going to take me, have it take me. Thank God I'm good. And were you able to actually identify anything that might have contributed to you getting colon cancer in terms of like lifestyle stuff or not really? Yeah.

I think it's just like being overweight, but really just what you put in your mouth, like what you eat, right? It's all about processed foods. If it's in a bag, it's probably all bad, chips, candies. You know, we grew up in the fast food era. You're the same age as me. Our parents at Burger King and McDonald's is good because it was quick. It was fast. Like after karate, after school, you're getting this, oh, boom, fast.

That's just all bad, dude. Yeah, no, totally. When I look back on things that my parents thought were totally normal to feed us, it feels kind of crazy. TV dinner. It's like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, yeah. Everything was like a bagel. or a pizza or spaghetti.

Everything was carbs. My mom did great. She cooked a lot for us in the house, but just that after school shit, you don't get in that bird king, getting at McDonald's just thinking it was cool because it was cool when we're younger. Think about in the 90s, bro. It was just shit. Yeah, yeah. And they just had so much less information at that point.

Yeah, there's no information. I look at the parents from my kids' school and everybody is like some version of like a weird health nut. When you see like the kids' birthday parties and the kind of snacks that they give them and stuff, it's just like none of these like affluent parents are going for it. kind of on top of it at this point. Okay, so beating cancer was crazy, but you also dealt with this insane saga with one of your, basically one of the companies

that invested in cookies early on. And I've seen you venting about this on social media kind of over the years and everything, but like how would you break down that? Like this was a company that gave you $10 million in what year to basically partner with you? To 2018 and 19. Okay.

And this just starts to go bad at some point. They kind of attempt to do like a hostile takeover of cookies. What was it like going through that? And what do you now know in terms of cookies that would not, that would cause you to not take on another partner like that again? Yeah. So, like, you know, I'm still going through it. Okay.

Losses are still very well. And, you know, there's a strategy in business when you get to big business where people will sue you until you bleed out. Yeah. You have to think we spent about $20 million on lawyers. fees in the last three years, $20 million in lower fees. When you spend that kind of money, it's hard to focus on the business, the brand. You start to stress out a little bit.

Like, you can't keep going, right? And those keep hitting you until you give up. So I'm still fighting for my shit right now. It's been very, very difficult to fight started when I got cancer. So a picture being on chemotherapy and fighting for your business, it was not tight. It's not tight. It's something I can never let go. And that's why I'm still fighting hell of hard for.

I feel like, my, put me through hell. And it's very complicated. I can't really talk about too much. but I just know that in business, and especially in big business, it is a strategy for people to take your business to litigation tactics. Yeah. And, you know, most people with most businesses would not be able to pay $20 million in legal fees. And how about this?

We won one of the big cases. So I'll assume you for like $100 million bucks. I won $23 million with interest now is $25 million. They haven't paid $1 yet. And they refuse to pay. They know that like by starving us out, it's just if we get that money, we're in the game, we can keep, bah, bah, they're just going to keep trying to not pay. They're going to let the interest keep going up, going up.

But what kind of world do you go through crazy smear campaigns and you're taking big hits on the chin with your brand and damage from the brand and this and that? And the motherfucker to lose a case for a $23 million and refuse to pay it. It's like, what the fuck is this? Like you get one W and then they just basically refuse to acknowledge it. Yeah, we're not going to pay you.

We're going to keep suing you until you fucking bleed out. So I've just been trying to stay positive, I've been trying to stay creative, been trying to figure out ways to pay my Lori Bill, you know what I'm saying? So we're just going to keep fighting. I'm not going to let this shit go. I feel like we all build cookies. You know, I think that we have a huge following.

Even dropping the book, I realize how many people really love what we've done together. I'm like, man, if I let this shit go as much as times I'm like, you know what, fuck all this. I'm going to go do something else. Yeah. I'm like, I can't do that, bro. Not for myself, not for my, not for our supporters, not for my kids. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to keep fine.

Yeah. And I mean, it really strikes a core with me, too, because same thing with you. Like, my love of podcasting was so pure early on. and then like same with you where you're hanging out with people that are influential in this space smoking weed with them gift them weed making clothes the clothes are popping off etc it's such a pure experience and then you get to a point where due to your success which obviously cookies way more successful than my business or whatever but it's like then people start really looking at you like an opportunity and all of a sudden you've got lawsuits coming from all different angles and shit and it just really kind of threatens to suck the fun out of doing business it does but the way I look at now is like if so many people are fighting over cookies it got to be

worth something major like it's bigger than we all know I'm like I built this shit bro this is my shit so I feel like I'm gonna keep fighting and I will see what happens but I think a lot of shit's been draining us yeah it's crazy too because I feel like cookies is a brand that's so associated with its founder that if this company were to take control of it what is it then worth at my guess they probably take control of it then comes it down with me like look man we're going to figure something out with you. It's like that's why it doesn't make any sense anyway. It's like they know for sure if they took it and had no parts of it, it'd be done. Yeah.

The day they do that. They have to know that. If they don't, then I hope they hear it right here because they look at everything I do anyway. So they took it. And I wasn't involved would be a problem for them. But my biggest thing is like, man, let's just, let's just sit back and understand what the we've been wasting our time for it. It's been three years. They spent a bunch of money. I spent a bunch of money. Like, what are we even doing here? Right. Do you think that like for this kind of company that it's worth dumping such a, an insane amount of money into legal fees because they know that federal deregulation or whatever is probably on the horizon. And cookies is like probably more poised than any other weed brand to really be like the Marlboro or whatever of cannabis, right?

Yeah, say what you say about cookies and they'll touch the whole globe, like the whole world. I feel like they know that's powerful. And that's why I said it's got to be fighting for it for a reason. But yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. So I was reading or somebody commented on something I posted. I mentioned something about reading the book actually and somebody responded to me on Instagram and said,

you should ask him about the fact that he doesn't even own any part of cookies. And I feel like these are the kind of like narratives that people love to like throw out there without much basis. Like where does that sort of opinion come from? Or like what do you even care to respond to that with? I'm going to give you a gem right now. Sure. I'm going to give you this is.

clip farm worthy right here. Guess how much I own the cookies right now? Like right now is today's stance. How much? Just guess. I'll go 50% to be safe. No. Zero.

No. Somewhere in between that. I own 85% of cookies. Okay. So like people will say whatever they want to say because they don't know anything. It's like, dude, I own 85% of cookies at this moment right now. Right. We're at right now in the world today as we sit here today.

hand to the god i own 85% of cookies so like people will just say stupid shit yeah it's crazy and that's rare like if you think about if you think about founders and you think about big companies you think about companies in the magnitude i have here most people own like 3% 4% maybe 12% right 9% i own 85% of my shit now would that change here soon for sure i'll probably get down to 40 and there was a time where i only owned there was a time recently where i only owned about 40 41 percent of cookies. But still, it's like, that's a big chunk, right? Yeah.

So it's like, I don't know where people get that shit. But so, because early on in the book, you end up giving, I think, 20% or 25% to the manufacturer who was making all the apparel. Is that the same LLC that we're talking about, the ownership of? Yeah. Okay. And then you also gave 15% to the sales guy that you were working with in the beginning. So are those deals that at a certain point you just bought out their percentage?

Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Was that wise? Like when I'm reading that in the book, I'm like, holy shit, he just gave up 40% in situations where I guess it was probably useful to you because you didn't really have the capital. Yeah, I don't really have the capital in order to have the knowledge, right? So at one point in time, cookie is just like a concept. But it's just a hoodie with the design.

By giving that first 20% away, I got cutting. So I got backpacks, wallets, beanieys, belts, I got rolling trays. I got all the accessories. My brand went from just a printable to a whole line overnight, right? And then you got all this stuff going. You're doing $5 million a year or whatever. Maybe you're kind of pop. And then what is the next step?

Let's get into wholesale. Let's get this shit pop. Let's get into boutiques and stores and zoomies and stuff like that. So by giving that 50% to the sales rep, right? He was able to take that shit from, I think he took it from like $5 million. We had like $60 million a year in clothing. So I felt like it was a very smart move at the time to go ahead and do what I did because it really scaled the company. Yeah, definitely.

So what's your outlook on bootlegging at this point? There's been a couple different times over the years where I interviewed somebody and they were wearing a cookies fit and the people informed them in the comments that they're wearing fake cookies. I think it's the biggest form of flattery. I think it's like a great cheerleader. I feel like if people are wearing your clothes and it go into the extent of like making fake clothes and then you know you're popping still. I feel like when it gets quiet, you got to be worried. Yeah. Can you even tell what's fake and what isn't fake?

For the most part. Yeah. I mean, I don't know every single piece that's fake and what's not. But you can kind of tell like by like shady logo placing and shit like that. Yeah. But they have to be pretty good at this point too, right? Because, like, you know, if it was your full-time job to bootleg other people's designs, you'd probably be able to get pretty close.

I just thought about I own 80% of cookies right on at 8580. 80, okay. That's good. You think that those rumors, though, come from the fact that, like, the business model that you guys kind of designed for the dispensaries was that you would rather take a 5% cut of profits than own an actual percentage of it? Yeah, like, you know, like I think a lot of people, they misunderstand what it is. do you have the IP of a company, which is the whole heart and everything.

When you sell a company, you sell your IP, right? So I own a majority of the IP for the company. When it comes like individual operations, I don't own that. That's all in design, though. If we ever want to go public on the NASDAQ, we can't be plant touching. We can't own dispensaries. You can't own grows.

Right. And that's really the bigger plate one there. We want to go public on the NASDAQ. So I kind of built my company like that. So while you might go to a dispensary, I might have like, they might see public feuds or partners stuff oh he's even owned it well I don't own the individual assets by on the business that actually licensed their business to the assets right so it's

like it's just it's kind of confusing we have a very confusing business model but it all makes sense one day people like I get it I get what you did yeah I had somebody say to me at one point they're like you got to understand this is a couple years ago they're like you got to understand that with burner and cookies he's kind of biting his time right now because of the federal situation that it's like burner would probably like to be growing cookies at a more rapid rate. Obviously the lawsuit and everything kind of gets in the way of that, I'm sure. But they kind of explained it to me like cookies can't grow to what it wants to be right now because of the federal situation.

So they sort of need to buy their time and find stuff to do to keep the brand relevant. But ultimately the play for the brand is going to be getting it legal on a federal level. Yeah, because like here's like a over. Here's like a bird's eye view strategy. So if I want to go raise hundreds of millions of dollars from day one, right? Yeah. To go build my grows out personally. So I can actually have my people in there growing our product and doing everything

hands on vertically integrated, right? I would have went from that percentage I have all the way down to this, right? Okay. It would have shrunk big time. But if I were able to license my brand out to people, grow the revenue, get a big evaluation, right? So now if I raise money, it's going to go like this and say like this, right? If I can go out there, get a bigger evaluation, plant my flag everywhere. When did we IPO, we raise money for cheap.

Then we go build our own facilities. It's a whole different ball game. I believe in transparency. I tell my fans what it is. I'm like, look, dude, we're building right now for a bigger play. And if I can go raise money for cheap, if I go public, I can go raise $100 million and barely dilute and go build up my facilities the way I want to. We'll redow it in.

We'll work backwards if we have to. It's going to suck. In the meantime, certain markets might not get the quality that we can produce if we had in our own hands, but we're building our company big. And so I feel like sooner we're going to have a situation where I can possibly IPO, go raise money for a great price, and go build my shit out myself, and everything will be doubted in the way I want to. I've also had a chance to find the best partners in each market.

I've been able to do a bunch of research, right? So it's hard sometimes for people on the ground to understand the bigger play, the bigger view. I know exactly what I'm doing. I did not want to dilute back in the days. If I were to raise $100 million, they'd build my shit out. Like my brother, Ivan in the Jungle Boys, he does this stuff himself. He was able to build himself with stuff. but took a little slower for him.

He actually controls his destiny, which I really appreciate. I'm going to be there one day soon. I said, I want to have to go do it and dilute so hard. Yeah, because even reading you do a little bit of an autopsy or a funeral for fucking medmen in the book, I forgot about medmen. You were seeing that logo everywhere for a year or two there. And then it's just like another example of a big corporate company that tried to do their thing in the weed space and it didn't really work, huh? Yeah, they went too big, too fast.

They didn't have the heart. They didn't have the people. inside the company that are passionate about cannabis. Like, bro, people believe it or not, I've been throwing fits about a lot of things, you know, regarding cookies for a long time, but I didn't really have my control where I wanted to be. Right now, the reason why I say I own 80%,

and it's a very long story will be in the next, but I have control right now. I finally got it back. So it's going to be good. Yeah, I mean, you'd rather have control and a larger percentage of it than, you know, go really, really big and have a small percentage. Because you kind of, you've experienced that to a situation.

Yeah, I've experienced that. I already went through that and like things put it out the way they did. Now I have control back on my hands. I really plan on building this thing out the right way. Yeah. I know what we did right. I know what we did wrong and I know what I really, really willing to do, you know, so. So is there a future, like say 10 years from now, I think we all kind of assume that in 10 years you'll be able to go to the 7-Eleven and buy some weed?

Mm-hmm. Is that weed going to suck? Does it have to suck because market forces will just make it? The average person probably doesn't care enough to purchase high-end weed. I think that for a majority of brands, it probably will suck. Yeah. Especially because, you know, the way that things are working business. If it's going to be federally legal, a bunch of people will be able to raise money,

and the banks will be open, and people will start a bunch of bullshit companies. But so long as I'm alive, and even after I die, I'm putting plays in place that's going to ensure that there's quality for our brand because I really want to be. I love weed, bro. I bond with people all around the world with weed, and I kind of got my go. I got my start by having great weed, right? So why don't I switch up later? If there's a way to do it the right ways, have to be smart about it. You have to actually really care about it.

Right. Yeah, because I mean, I never go to dispensaries, so you probably have a way different experience to me. But I've had people tell me that when you go to the dispensary, the most popular strains are not the best weed. It's way more low-quality shit. Yeah, I feel like, you know, people go to dispensaries. There's two different people that go to dispensaries. People are just looking for our value. Yeah. They're looking for a value buyer.

And there's people that looking for like the best small batch freshest quality shit. I think the way the laws are designed now, it's really hard to put really good fresh products on the show. Yeah. Unless you're doing in-house, you know, from A to Z. she just has to the way that they make it get from from farm to shelf is crazy as the law sucks yeah so like the legalization for the rec market has that overall been a negative for the quality of lead 100% like back in the days i was able to buy shit for right there from whatever vendor is bringing it into me i could put it on the show right there

deli style out of jar boom here you go now you have to go take you have to package it a certain way you have to let's sit at a certain time you have to bring it distributed a certain way it's just really things up. All those rules just really get in the way of it. It's terrible. What do you think the free market approach to it would be like, though, if there was just no regulations? Do you think there would be like similarly terrible outcomes? Maybe, but I think there's a way to Dallon, I know what they want to do. I think there's a way that you sat down and listened to make it a lot easier for the operators or for the customers. It'd be a lot easier if they just sat down and listened to someone like myself or someone like Ivan from Jungle Boys or someone like Dave from Preferred. Like if they

listen to people actually know what they're doing, there's a way they can kind of get it. their regulation and want, but also get the customer in fresh product. Yeah, because sometimes people give me weed and then people I'm with will be like, no, these are all spray packs. And up until a couple years ago, I didn't even know what that was. And so they're kind of like sort of showing me, showing me the weeds, seeing like, look how weird it looks, right? I'm not even like knowledgeable enough to really be able to make that call on my own.

But I guess that's the kind of thing. That's the ultimate thing that comes around from this, right? I think there's a world to, like, have the testing in place to make sure people are not ingesting some bullshit. Yeah. I think the time it takes to get the, this product and to put it on the shelf is the problem. I think they just put too many steps in the way.

Yeah. Damn. You should still be able to test and regulate it for sure. It should be easy. No, definitely. So what advice would you give to somebody who was trying to start a weed brand in this day and age, given that like so many of the techniques that you use to build up hype for cookies back in the day really sound kind of archaic in today's market?

Yeah. It's even tough for me right now to reach people. I feel like the first advice I give you just make sure you really love what you're doing and make sure you really love the weed game make sure you really love weed first thing first right second thing would be find a standout menu

don't just go get the same shit everyone else has find something that makes you so different how you do that go find a breeder find a breeder that wants to work at you make sure you have a real gen X I guess the third thing would be like find a way to connect to customers outside of social media because I think today's Traver

today's weed brand is having the hardest time to reach people because social media is fift it's just it's I can't I can't post anything about We can't talk about, we that can't do shit about weed. Actually, you could do it a little bit, but the algorithms say are not on our side. So, find ways to connect with people outside of social media. And I feel like social media as a marketer is already just because it's so flooded.

It's so hard to reach the people that actually go out of their way to follow you. Like even on Instagram Reels, you know, 80% of what you see is people that you don't follow. And then you add on top of that the censorship angle and the fact that it's just incredibly hard. We came up in the golden area of social media, like the arrow. pop cookies off, it was all for your game. No one really thought about algorithm or who you're reaching, who can reach. And like, this shit was pop and now it's fucked up. Yeah.

That goes for everything to. You even try to promote the book. It's been tough. Really? Because it's just hard to, like, make posts about a book really do well. You just sort of like reach people. Bro, first of all, I've been stuck at 1.9 million followers for over seven or five years. That's insane.

You tell me the Forbes cover, the Adage Award, the Cleo Award, all this shit I've done in life. Didn't boost my shit at all. bit. Yeah. I thought to someone very high up in med, like, Byrne, you should be at like 13 mil right now. It doesn't make any sense your, the way your page is growing in the back end, just stuck. It doesn't go anywhere. What's your account status look like? It's all green. Oh, it is. You can be shared with non-follows. Because I had mine, so I couldn't be shared with non-bolo. I was in the same position for about two years. Yeah. I finally got to someone, that's the person I got to at met. I'm like, look, dude, I'm not trying to do anything here. I'm

not trying to do anything except understand why am I being so f***ed? I don't pose anything. It's just some very, very deep research from the back end of my page. I was getting snacked, like, I don't know what the fuck was hit me. It was like a nuclear bomb hit my page. And like, look, it's higher than you expect. It's not like one of these guys is like, oh, take your page for 20 grand or get it. It's bigger than that. There was someone high up paying on my shit.

Yeah. We got it all green. It's been all green since, but I'm not reaching nobody like that. Yeah. Because I got out of that and it feels like I'm not losing followers at the same rate, but it doesn't feel like it's growing in the same way. I think there's some good old boy club up there. It's the side who gives to see people who doesn't.

Yeah, it's crazy. At least we're not dope as Yolo who's been through 30 accounts. I feel bad for my guy. He gets, he gets clipped no matter what, you know. He's got a different level. I don't understand. No,

I can't get a cookies account popping for life of me. A store opened up a page that would be gone like within 30 seconds. So that's one thing. You know what my conspiracy is? I think that someone was able to get, you know how AI kind of flags certain things? Yeah. I think someone was able to put the logo of my business inside of a program that just flags right away.

Wow, that's interesting. Because even when I post a clothing, you're super shadow man. Yeah. Super. It's just clothing. Yeah, it's well. I know a dude who made like an El Chapo doll.

And he was getting, like the AI knew what the fuck he was trying to do. And they were blamping him for that left and right. And that really made me like, holy shit. Yeah, it's a different level. It's a different level of, it's mani right now, for sure. Yeah. So like what, okay, so I was thinking about this is that it feels like social media and the idea of doing content that is really going to like reach a large audience

from a marketing standpoint, just does. does not work in the same way that it used to. It's kind of like, so now all brands who are trying to do marketing tend to go towards stuff like events, stuff like anything where you can get any kind of real life interaction, just because that seems like it has so much more meaning. It's like very, very hard to do anything online that will scale and actually be effective from a marketing standpoint. Obviously, there's exceptions to that, especially when you're talking about like real,

real massive celebrities. But it feels like now it's like smaller gestures and things that can kind of connect with people on more of a one-to-one basis as opposed to like real scalable viral content. Because everything that's viral is not like the kind of stuff that makes you want to buy something. You see clips of Aiden and Ross and neon and all these guys nonstop. But like it doesn't create that mentality of like, oh, I want to buy this. It's more of just like, you know, it creates more. fame and notoriety yeah yeah i mean so from your perspective like what actually moves the needle

marketing i feel like organic like i feel like cell phone clips move actually more than like produce overproduced clips i noticed like when i do a cell phone clip but like behind the scenes of some shit and pass way more than like overproduced content yeah i feel like uh definitely like call to action like yo i got this bill who wants one okay they'll be other content right like they'll be all the content right Like, there'll be all the comments. Like, I feel like, call it action definitely works. I feel like right now my whole thing is like in person now. I just want to pull up.

I got on my tour where I saw a bunch of books because I just did meeting greets. I partied with local bookstores on the tour. And what I did by mean greet, Mean Creek came with a book. And we just bought the books from a local bookstore. So you have to get creative on the way you sell things now, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, because it's like you do an in-store appearance at a dispensary or whatever. And let's say you get to shake hands and sign an autograph or take a photo with 500

people which actually 500 is so many people don't really realize that but like a hundred person if you spend five minutes with each person is like many many hours of time you know but then you're also like creating content for social media through that and that's kind of like yeah i think i think like real live moments like clipping up that like in like document real like things like i was talking about like i'm really excited about like producing like a real featured like a real high-end documentary about where i'm at with the cookies right now and how i'm about to take it to the next. I want to document. I wish I would document a lot more in the past, but I feel like a documentary about where I'm at right now with the business, what happened to the business,

how I'm going to take it to the next level and avoid those same kind of things. I thought that would be super far. I feel like the clips I can get from that. I feel like the moments I could, you know, share people through that. It's going to be super effective. I feel like it's better than like posting on Instagram. Hey, guys, we just opened up Minnesota. Come pull up. It's like, nah, I'm a show we went to what we went through to open up Minnesota. Yeah. Sit down with the partners, show the grow build out, show that we're actually doing things in house and like I was just show the different levels of shit and I feel like that's like the best

way to reach people yeah it's crazy too though because it's like you can make the most informational educational content imaginable but then you still have to find the hook that's going to make people actually watch the reel or click the YouTube video or whatever and that is a it's a tricky thing you know I'm very curious I have a movie coming on in the summer that kind of like I produced myself and I shot in SF and um I think it's gonna be dope but I'm trying to figure out how the fuck don't market this movie because, like, traditional marketing is just shot. I'm like, okay, too, I'm going to clip farmers. I don't want to put it in front of people and get the reaction.

Like, what do I want to do to roll this movie out? This is a big deal for me. Yeah, because even, like, you know, traditional movies, the rule is that you've got to spend as much as you spend making it marketing. I'm scared of that. Yeah, I already put $2 million in my movie. And I was, like, kind of like get shorty. I was going to make a movie and boom, it's going to be easy. It's fucking time.

I've been sitting this movie for two years, dog. Yeah. The majority of it, you filmed two years ago? Yeah, it's been done for, it's been done for almost like two years now. Damn, and so your main concern is marketing? Are you, like, doing a lot editing? Well, I found, no, it's already edited. I found the right partner.

I found a big studio partner with it took some time to do that. But I feel like now and now I have this partner, like, when I get my release date, how am I going to roll it out? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you think about like a movie, I hear about movies all the time that, you know, they spent $50 million marketing it. And I don't find out about it until I see some random controversy related to, like, the

actress from the movie saying something rude to a reporter or some bullshit like that. And then that also makes you think like, oh, okay, so how much of this stuff is planted or paid for? Like, do they have like some random viral moment that then they dump money into pushing that narrative? Because that's the kind of thing that somebody like me was really not invested might actually pay attention to it. For sure.

You already know they're got sneaky-ass tactics for sure. Yeah. That's the crazy part is that that might be what's necessary to really push the movie. Yeah. I create some drama around my movie. Yeah, definitely. Okay, so how do you look at opening a dispensary as a business in 2026? Because I feel like there used to be so much enthusiasm around it 10 years ago.

And now when I look at it, it just feels like this is just not something that almost anybody is eager to take part in. No, I mean, opening a store now is very dangerous. The way I look at it now is just really just self-spaced. like I'm really looking at putting more wholesale efforts out there like really starting to beat the block up. There's big chains out there. They've done a great job. If I'm having stores, they want to take that, they want to take that mission on, you know. So I feel like I'm just, I'm looking at like more, more focused on products this here.

Probably new genetics, a smaller badge drops. If we do open up a store, I'm looking at like just opening a store to have shelf space. So I'm not really worried about making money on that store. Just more using that store to push product. Do you, because like one thing that you say in the book and it's kind of, common knowledge for anybody who knows what the weed game is that marketing is basically everything. But you're somebody who came in the game with a real, real understanding of the genetics and the different types of weed and stuff and that that's something that clearly, like, that's

one of the first things that you mentioned. Like, what's the balance of that of, like, knowing that the quality of the product is so important, but then also knowing that putting it in the right colored bag is probably going to be the thing that really draws people to it. Right colored bag, the right, like the right rollout of it, the right logos for the right, like bag design you see people getting hell creative now with bag designs it's like New York they're selling the shit that comes with like toys and memorabilia

and little items and shit like that so if I get to kind of like there's a fine balance I feel like you don't be the guy that has a one time sale like you sell because it looks cool but it's just trash yeah for me I'm old school I'm a real smoker I feel like I really like to base my brand around genetics like right now we're really pushing blueberry caviar

that shit's really popping from me right now I feel like if I'm less interested in packaging even though I kind of like started the whole wave with packaging and had like a great branding for our brand. I feel like I'm really focused on the weed. Like we have clear bags right now like your sandwich bags. Okay.

Like an old school glad bag and we're just trying to let the weed talk. That's just my approach right now in 20206 because I, I feel like I can't really keep up with kids with packaging because two things. One, it's a lot to keep up with and then two, we have much bigger eyes on us. If I do something in packaging and I'm like, oh, regulations say you can't do that have to take it off or that this and that

everyone else, they can just do where the fuck they want. We have such a We have so many fucking eyes on us. It's insane. Damn. Yeah. So I think that it really, if you're going to put some out in 2026, make sure it smokes. Yeah.

Damn. Yeah. Because when I think about it, I've seen every kind of packaging to the point of true absurdity, you know? Yeah, me too. I can't do anything fun at all. Like I design like shit that's not even edgy at all. Like, oh, no, that, that all against regulations. Like, what the fuck?

What about this? Weird. Well, yeah, no one's looking at that right there like that. I'm like, fuck this fucked up. Okay. with all these regulations, does it not make sense at a certain point for you? I don't want to suggest anything illegal,

whatever. Like, I watched a YouTube video about the dude from BAPE, who, like, at a certain point was bootlegging his own clothing and making huge amounts of money from, like, selling it on the black market, which it makes sense.

If you know that people are going to bootleg it, maybe you could just bootleg it yourself. Unfortunately, I probably got a bunch of feds waiting for me to do that. They're probably just waiting for my day to do that. I just sit back. I think that we have a big advantage of our other brands in a sense that we're global in different countries and stuff like that. So I just got to keep the shit hot, keep the genetics interesting, and keep the menus fresh.

Does it still feel like the law enforcement is very concerned with you or does you feel like you're past that? I don't think they're concerned with me because I don't do anything, but I do have PTSD from back in the days big time. Yeah. Yeah. But you never had any like serious cases? No, I never had. I've never been to jail. but, you know, just like,

they were f***le me for a while. It's in a book. Yeah. You fickle me for a while. Yeah. But it doesn't sound like a god as bad as it definitely probably could have. No, no, I'm good. I just understand when you're a bigger,

just to have we're a bigger target. That goes for everything else too. The second I try to make me a little brown bag, and make a little brown, take them down, make an example of this motherfucker. Yeah, definitely. Okay, what about like the influencer space? Because that's one thing that you speak on in the book

is that you are having some of the most relevant influencers, rappers, etc. Of that era, we're talking about, you know, 2010-2016-type era. And these are people who, you know, you're really able to, like, organically get them to promote and push cookies. And now when I think about it,

like I know people who've tried to pursue, you know, clothing endorsements for the biggest streamers or the biggest rappers. And it definitely feels like a different ballgame at this point, just because so many of these, people kind of know that they're worth six figures to put their endorsement on something. Well, how do you approach that now?

I talk about it in the book, too, I think if it's not organic, if it's not real, if it's not just happening naturally, it probably won't work. Even if you pay someone a million dollars of rocky shit, they're going to treat like a trick. Yeah. You know, wear it one time, take a picture for you that are going to post it themselves. People don't want shit they're getting paid for. They want shit that they want to be a part of, right? I feel like there's even, I can't talk about who it is, but I have a huge collaboration with cookies right now.

For someone I didn't even think would even fuck with us. It's like huge, huge, huge, huge. I'm like, go f*** this dude. I don't even think he'd ever fuck with us, but he wants to do it. He wants to get in that space. He wants to do something with us. I'm like, man, that's fucking huge, but it's real or it's organic, right? I'm not paying him to do shit.

He's, it's a, we're going to break bread evenly. So I feel like if you can find ways to connect to people that have juice, I have some kind of platform, just make sure it's organic. Not saying, like, not discouraging people, like, don't go pay people or don't, don't get influencers on deck. It just, it's hard when it comes with brands. I feel like it was kind of tough, especially clothing, you know? Yeah.

I feel like you should just find ways to push it in people's hands and see if it sticks. Yeah. Do you think like a weed brand that is also a popular clothing brand? Is there always going to be some sort of contradiction in the people's minds with that where like something that's weed-oriented is always going to not seem like a supreme or like a designer luxury brand to them? Like is there some? I don't think so because I was able to do it.

If I could do it, they could do it. You know, if I could do it, you could do it. So someone gifted me a sweater on tour, and it was like with a weed bag, and the sweater was fire. I rocked that shit for like three days. It was amazing. Yeah. I felt like if you just put your heart into it, don't skip no corners, make some dope, too dope

shit that stands out. It could take it that, me, Bob. Is it weird because with cookies, it's such a big brand that if you guys are going to really go out of your way to work with somebody, it's typically going to be like a really big name, big influencer. Whereas, you know, I do feel like sometimes the cosigns that you get from like more underground figures can be the ones that are actually... Yeah, they move the needle. But at a certain point, you guys are so big that it's hard to pay attention to sort of like micro-influencers.

Yeah, I kind of lean on folks. They really have their eyes on everything for shit like that. Like I would prefer a bunch of micro-influencers, honestly, because they're the ones on the streets getting busy. And like, if they blow up with you, it's big. Like, if they're, you know, people are like... People look at like Wizz and Currency back in the days, Rock and Diamond. It was big. It was big.

They were big, but they weren't like they are now, you know? So it's like you want young artists to kind of grow with you. Yeah. I feel like if I could, I mean, I love to work with micro-influencers. Yeah, no, definitely. We're about to launch our ladies line here. So like I've been waiting to do a female shit for cookies for a long time. And I feel like I want to do that like that.

Like that I'm going to get like people that buzz, like ladies at buzz, like, you know, small buzz and micro-influzers for that for sure. I don't go after like a Cardi B or a Nicky, like I don't want to go after someone big. It wouldn't make sense. I want to go get like young people out there moving, shaking, shit and shit like that. Right. Because, I mean, I have seen that where, you know, I've seen weed brands kind of go all in doing a collaboration or with a really big artist that they probably have to pay a million plus dollars. How many times does it ever work, though? Ah, yeah.

It doesn't work, dude. Yeah. It doesn't work because, again, I'm a rap cat. If someone comes to bring me a bag, I'm into it right there. But when they leave, unless it's something super special, I'm not really going to be, it's not my shit. I got paid to do it. When you get paid to do, you do your job and you leave. Not saying I'm not going to do a job for them, but if someone brings me something

like burn, I f*** with this. People bring me to you all the time I actually fuck with. So if someone brings you something like, yo, this is the new shit going. Damn, what's up with this? I want to be involved. They'll probably get more out of me than like, you know, than if someone say, here's 10 grand posters for me. Yeah.

I'm down to do that business all day. If you want to bring me the bad, cool. But I'm just trying to give people advice. Like when you post them with something dope naturally, it'll go a lot farther than if you pay them. Yeah, yeah, definitely. What about like buying, you know, billboards or if you could buy TV ads? Do you feel like that's the future of weed advertising or it doesn't work? I would never do that.

Why? I just feel like it just, the amount of money you have to spend for a billboard campaign or like a TV commercial you could use giving product to butt tender to actually you're selling your product. You use that money to, you know, people like, you know, your staff here, you got dope ass people around here to smoke, but if I was going to use money, I come here you go. Like putting product in people's hands is probably the most effective marketing.

I suppose like you think like a billboard campaign is probably going to be like 10 to 80 grand maybe even a couple hundred grand which we can give away for a couple hundred grand. Yeah, but it's like it scales, right? Like it creates like a familiarity with people in their mind with the name of the product that you might not ever be able to get doing like sort of hand-to-hand marketing, right? Yeah, but no, I made fun of Medman for doing a huge billboard campaign. He doesn't make any sense. Like I can get more action from like sitting down with you talking about wheat, you know?

Yeah, but to be fair, Medmen, which I, have never been to and I don't go to dispensaries, but I'm familiar with the name because I guess I saw it on enough buses and fucking billboards, you know? Seeing it and actually like spending money on it or two different things. Yeah, and really that kind of advertising,

at least in my mind, makes it lame. Yeah, I feel like it's hard. If you want to go after customers, give away product. If you want to go after a clock, go do a billboard campaign. I'm trying to make some money. Right. Because, okay, there was at one point

where I was talking about doing a weed line with somebody or whatever, and they were talking about marketing. and they're like, we need to have our product be available from all the top, like, trap weed dealers, like the guys who pull up on rappers in the studios and sell them weed. And I was really kind of surprised that he even saw that as being an important avenue. Because from my mind, that's so micro, it's so small. But at the same time, I guess those are the people that you want to have your weed seed in next year.

They're putting shit in people's hands. That's what I'm saying. Like hand to hand is a way to go. Yeah. Yeah, they'd be smarter saying, okay, I'm going to give these guys X amount to go push in people's hands when they pull up to a studio or something like that. Yeah. No, yeah. It's just like, when you look at that, it's like, oh, okay, we've kind of been through this whole like social media marketing era where that was the only thing that people could think of.

And now it feels like maybe we're at another point where the hand-to-hand. I mean, think about like for the amigos, I love to amigos. Shout to Amigos. You know what I'm saying? They promoted cookies hell and naturally. I never did no business with them on that. It was like they were fans of the bud. They were getting blood put in their hands,

but other people, not me. They were rapping about cookie. It shit blew up. Yeah. You know, so I feel like, you know, I feel like it's just that natural shit

really works. Yeah. Okay, so I got to ask you about this because we've talked about it on the podcast, quite a bit in the past, but where did things go wrong

with my boy Josh from Raw? Are you guys still at odds? You still never had a conversation? I mean, look, I'm willing to sit down with the guy. He's not willing to sit down with me. I don't know what it is.

I'm not going to try to understand what it is. I just feel like that guy is very territorial in his space. Maybe that's why he's winning. I don't know. But I feel like I'm a hippie at heart. The guy, I don't want no problems with this guy. I have enough problems that we discussed today. But Josh is just not wanting to sit down with me.

Last time I saw Josh, I pulled up to him at an event at champs. I went up to him. I said, listen, bro, I have no problem with you, man. Give me a fucking hug. Gave him a hug. I said, bro, I don't want no problems of you anymore. Let's stop. We both got my mom.

money, this is ridiculous. There's enough room for everyone. It's fair. I wait to fucking break some bread. I'm over it. I got a call from the Tray Show next week and said, listen, you cannot go around that guy anymore. You can't see.

I never went back to the trade show again. My brother, this guy is not, he's not willing to bel have whatever weird energy out there is go. He's not willing to let it go. Bro, you set it up. I'll stay with him right here anytime, on the path forward for peace. Right.

Because I've been at it with him for a long time. And you guys were on good terms up until you debuted a rolling paper, the Vibs brand. Correct. And that was just basically, as soon as that came out, that just kind of deaded the relationship. It just got weird. And I'll tell you, like I told him, you know, Josh, you're the biggest in the game, brother. Like, I'm a fan of yours on what you built. Vives is not even a threat to anything you're doing.

Vibes is just something I want to do because I'm the weak guy. I have a grinder company. I have all kind of different kind of apparel. I just want to do a paper. So I'll say it publicly. I have no problem with Josh. I would love to speak to Josh. He's not willing to speak to me.

And all this nonsense the last five years is ridiculous. I look up to dude. I was a fan of his. I tried to do business with him. I think the problem was he was not willing to let other people. And I think they hear the same story from other people. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a hustler by heart.

I just wanted to try to make some bread. And I feel like if you could understand he is the big dog, he owns that space 100%. Guys like me that he thinks are a problem. their enemies or threats is nothing like that i'm not a threat to them or not enemy to him i'm dealing with fighting billionaires right now right about fucking josh yeah but the energy there is weird and uh open invitation any time to sit down on a podcast talk it out i told multiple people that i guess i see it from his respect where he felt like he in a lot of ways like brought rolling papers

to the mainstream right okay so let me tell you like this i'm the first big brand of cannabis right right what if i was acting like him to everyone else yeah exactly well i welcome everybody come break bread with me yeah i welcome everyone to build their brand i give people advice i wrote a whole book on how to faking build your brand when you gate keep something like that it's going to be a it's just it's not right so my old thing is like i get what he's saying but again it makes no sense even if even if he did feel that way he's the big dog he's the biggest he's the biggest like i gave i told him last time i spoke to him you're the biggest you're the best none of us could ever touch you be comfortable in that remember who you are

Don't be JD because I'm trying to do a paper. I'm not doing a paper company that hurts you. Yeah. I can never get close to you. I know no one could ever get close to this. There's young trappers out there with major motion. They're making ways. But, bro, they ain't done with cookies.

I'm very comfortable night with that. Yeah. You know, bro, I see with a lot of women, but you have confidence. Brother, maybe old boy doesn't have any confidence. I don't know. But I'm very confident in who I am or what I bring to the game. I wish he was confident who he is and what he brings to the game. Like all of us as outsiders, we look at him like, he should have maximum confidence

of the brand. He's a huge brand. Hundreds and millions of dollars a year. fucking rolling paper, dude, and he owns the whole game. Yeah, because I interviewed him, and then at a certain point, I looked up his net worth, somebody mentioned in the comments or something, and I'm like, oh, you got multiple hundreds of millions. Like, I didn't realize.

If I was Josh, I would embrace all these people like myself or dope as yola or other people that want to do rolling papers. I'd be the, I'd be the Coca-Cola of that. Well, you think you got smoked for dopeziola, too? I don't know. Well, I think I heard him mention in that in a video that was clicked on a clip. The point being is if I'm the plug, right? If I'm the plug, if I'm daddy in that space, right?

I would be Coca-Cola. I'd say, listen, you're going to go do your own thing. Let me manufacture it for you. Let me sell it for you. Let's break some bread together. Keep everything in one house. Yeah, it's crazy because I was in the BMX game for so long, and that's a game where everybody's making the same shit.

You know, you make a grip, a tire, a pedal. I mean, they're all like 2% different from each other. They've got a different logo on the side. Maybe it's a different color this month or whatever, but it's all the same shit. And all those companies get a lot. long because at a certain point it's like listen we're all in this game we're all trying to turn a profit or do something good for this community and at the same time it's very cutthroat

you know you come up with a new stylus seat every other company is going to want to copy the style of seat because they're all fighting for the same market share but at the end of the day if you really care about the culture of the thing that you're supporting here it's like you know you got to be able to look past that you still talk to josh now i haven't talked to him in a while but he'll still hit me up on social media here and there yeah you should ask you next time by you Burma wants to have you come down. Let's sit down. Let's break some bread.

Let's smoke a jay. Let's figure out what's going on. I will try to Lewis Farrak on that situation. You won't show it, brother. You think he's like telling himself stories about you being a bad guy at this point? Like you guys to kind of build it up in his head like that. I'm an easy villain for him. I mean, everything goes wrong with his life is because, I mean,

I have not thought about the guy since he just brought him up. I don't really focus on my babies and building my business back up and releasing my movie and my book. And I'm big dog in my space. He's a big dog in this space. I wish we could just talk. but he's, I guess, it's past that. I don't really know,

but I don't see what I'm going to. I just think it's funny because I know if you hit him up, he'd come up with the whole story. Why I was like I said that, he's a really bad friend. Whatever do. You know,

there's got to be a similar line on either, too, because I might not have ever known that you had a rolling paper company if it wasn't for that beef. Yeah. As a person who's not really in the market. I mean,

you know, my whole thing is like, bro, there's plenty out there. If I want to never gate, keep in the industry, no one should do the same. Mm.

I feel it. Yeah, I mean, in the podcast space, I feel like there's so many people that, like, want to beef over territorialism with the podcasting space, but the way that always works out better is to have a relationship like me and Vlad or Ack or whoever. When you take the higher road and you take the bigger path, I love to see young entrepreneurs. I like to see people eat.

I like to see people build their things. Like, I feel like you're like that too. I see working a lot of podcasters. I see you in Beefs as well, but, like, you're more welcoming the people than you are. Like, fuck you. I did this first. You know, yeah. Bro, like, if you're good at what you do, you're fine.

I mean, you accept at a certain point that this is something that the same reason why I want to do it is going to be the same reason why other people want to do it. You know, you're not the only guy who likes smoking weed. A lot of people like smoking weed, so there's going to be a bunch of rolling paper companies. Yeah, for sure. Like right now in my space, there's a brand popping called Toad Venom, right? I just, we hear it. I want to see it. I keep hearing about it.

Let me see. I like that shit like that. Yeah. I like to see people in motion because, bro, I've already done it. Yeah. And as soon as you shut off everybody else, all of a sudden your cosign seems inauthentic because as soon as you say,

cookies is the best weed and every other type of weed is dog shit and I don't want it anywhere near me. The average fan is going to look at that and say, well, I know that's not true because I know there's this guy down the street that he makes some dope-ass weed too. And Burner's a fucking liar if you acts like they don't.

I've never been like that, never will. And in back, when you go to cookies stores, it's like 75% other brands. Right. It's like 20% cookies, bro, the most. I like other weed brands. I like other, I liked weed.

I'm a weed guy. Yeah. So it's cool. Much love to home me. Hopefully one day it comes to his senses. I'm not the problem. No, definitely. Okay.

But so did you actually manage to gain some kind of daylight when it comes to the social media censorship stuff, right? Because you at a certain point in your Instagram deleted and you created like another one and stuff. But then I noticed you got it back. Was there ever a moment where through Instagram or meta you were able to like come to some degree of like, okay, they're not going to keep attacking my account? I went to the CEO. Okay. I went to headquarters. I'm a big dog too.

They actually gave you a meeting. Yeah. That's pretty big. Yeah. Sat down with the top dogs over there. I was like, look, dude, I understand your regulations. I don't post weed. I don't post anything for sale.

I don't do any of that. I'm a family guy. I run multiple businesses. Look at my page and you tell me I've done anything wrong. They looked at it said you've done nothing wrong. Matter of fact, your account is more attached than anything we've ever seen. We don't understand what the fuck is happening here. And it's funny because I've never told this story.

I connected with the top dogs at Meadow. They got my page back. It got my page back. It went down. Got my page back. They're like, bro, this is the seventh time. In two days, I'm like, guys, I'm telling you. This is like the top dogs bringing my shit back. And they couldn't explain why it was. They couldn't figure it out.

Yeah. So the last time, they did something that's kept it on. And I noticed my reach is not the same. And this is not, I can't pay meadow. It's a multi, whatever fucking business it is. They just understood I wasn't to do anything wrong. And there was some weird foul play happening in the background because when they bring it back in front of them,

it goes down. They brought it back. We're sitting there talking. Boom, down. Like, how that happened? I didn't even do anything.

Yeah. Right? Okay, cool. They got back. I leave at night time. Boom, down. I'm like,

I hope you're just witnessing. We do witness this. This is fucking crazy. Like, I don't understand what the hell was happening. We can't talk about it. So it's some weird shit, but yeah,

it's fixed now. Damn. That's dope. Yeah, it's just crazy. I don't understand. I pulled up. I pulled up to Silicon Valley. I'm like,

that. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. That's unbelievable. Okay. Is THCA valid? Yes.

What are your thoughts on its place in the market? Is it just as good as regular weed? It's the same shit. It's just growing in a hemp farm. Right. The Republicans legalize weed, and there's a major loophole in the farm bill, and people just don't want to understand it, but we understand it very well. And I wish I can get my hands a little more busy in that space.

I just don't have the time or the bandwidth. with them fighting a lot of good fights right now, but it's very valid. Damn, that's interesting to hear you say that because I feel like I personally have just started messing with it, at least with the edibles and stuff.

And from my perspective, it's like, damn, this shit is great. It's the same shit, brother. Yeah. If you went to a dispensurate right now and bought 10 products,

probably seven of them would test the same way the TSA A test, but the difference it was not grown in a licensed hemp farm. That's it, brother. That's it. You have to be grown in a license hemp farm

has to test for a certain way. A lot of stuff that we smoke day to day would test that way. Do you think it's not going to be legal for long? Because I understand there's like some. They're about to clip that shit. They are. Damn. So you think that's probably got like another year.

Really? Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. It's wild. I interviewed the dude from, uh, Hey, smokes. Yes.

Yeah. And that he painted the picture for me. But I think that was before they knew that that legislature was kind of coming down the pipe. Yeah, it's about to be a wrap for that. I think I wish it wasn't. It was tight. Damn.

So do you, are you actually? tapped in with like when federal legalization could come around and do you think do you think we're better off with Trump or a Democrat well I don't know I don't have no clue when it could happen I wish I did but I feel like we're better off like with this whole generation being out the way I think we have to grow a little older and we have to wait till people like me or you in position yeah I feel like that whole generation that's in office whether it be Democrat or Republican has been brainwashed and has bigger powers paying them not to do certain things so I

feel like it's gonna take someone like me or you and our in our you know whoever went to high school that wants to be a politician to be in position. It's interesting because, I mean, on one hand, Trump is supposed to be pro business, but then on the other hand,

the Republicans in general, I guess, don't really love weed or whatever represents. There's a big lobby behind it, why it's not legal. Yeah. Yeah. And damn, that's crazy.

Okay. How important would you say like perception is in terms of your success? Because I feel like, you know, I noticed there was like, posts going around about you being on that sort of top five

richest rappers list and I was I just found that interesting I'm like to what extent do you think that you appearing to be enormously successful is is beneficial in the eyes of the consumer it's good and bad I mean then people everyone wants a loan and so like that people just think you have more than you actually have liquid I found out that the way they make the list is they look at people look at their businesses their assets things they own and they kind of value them like that. I thought this whole time that, you know, Kanye West had $1 billion cash,

not the case at all. He has X amount of cash. He has an X amount of properties and he has a business that's valued like that. That's why they sell them worth $425 million because my liquid, my assets, and also what my business is valued at that time and moment. So they do a lot of due diligence.

It's like a two or three month thing. They have to go to your business managers and go to your banks and your properties and they have to look at your business and run value. You can't just print that shit. It's not just a lie. they have to do a lot of due diligence on that. So I think it helped.

I think it hurt. Yeah, because it's like on one hand, you are a rapper, and you kind of have a lot of fans and customers who, I think, are invested in the idea of somebody being extremely successful. But then the other side of things, it just seems like it opens up to a lot of criticism. I'm a dude from NorCal, you know what I'm saying?

They still lives out there. So you're tangible. People would touch you. And they, oh, you got $425 million bucks. Like, no, dude, it's not. I have that just sitting in the bank. I guess my business sales money, that's why I'm going to be, you know,

be valued that and whatnot, my actual equity of the business, whatnot. Yeah, you see that a lot on social media, too, where they want to tell you, like, Elon Musk lost, you know, $100 billion today. It's just equity goes up. Yeah, the value of his company goes up and down. It's pretty cool to be future on a list, so, I mean, this shit is real shit. Yeah.

Yeah. Definitely. Supposed it just to be like, you're a rapper, but you got the money through something else. Yeah. Someone tried to tell me, oh, you know, you're a rapper of my brother. I got 46 albums out. Do you make millions of dollars a year from my music? You're lost.

Well, how am I different from those guys? Those guys spread their wings. When was the last time Dr. Drake put it out a fucking album? Yeah, and most of the rappers, realistically, if you were just rapping, then that's not going to get you on one of those lists. The reason why those people are on those list is because they spread their wings. Yeah. I guess Drake is kind of like the... I was surprised he was on the fucking list.

Well, he's like the one dude who really has pretty much stuck to music for the most part. Yeah, but you would think Drake's worth like a billion dollars. But I think Drake wants to be low-key about his income. That's what I've heard, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure he could easily claim to be a billionaire. I don't think he's ever said it. He got to be, though. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, like, Jay-Z, Kanye and a billion, a couple billion club. Like, Jay-Z, or Drake's got to be right there. You got to be, bro. He's been eating for a long time. Yeah. One of the most interesting anecdotes in the book is about you basically turning down both Diddy and Jay-Z when they tried to invest in cookies. So give us a little bit of the rundown

How that went with Diddy first Dedee knows what he wants in life He's gonna be very persistent He's very passionate about trying to get a deal done But for me I was like I already kind of got my audience I already kind of have my identity as a brand And no disrespect to Ditty

But I just didn't feel right And that was before all allegations And shit like that But I just didn't feel right at the time And what year was this? It was like 2021, 2021 or something like that It's like max financial hysteria, everybody thinking the weeds of the next giant thing.

Yeah, he was juice on it. He was juice on it. I just, I wasn't really into the deal, but he was very persistent on trying to set of a meeting. So I took out of respect to me. No matter what people say about, did he's a boy in the space that like he makes, he makes waves. He makes things pop. Back in the days, I looked up to him and Jay Z and 50 and just on their business, you know, the way they did their business.

So I took a meeting out of respect. I wasn't really interested into it. Jay Z was a little tougher for me because. that's fucking Jay-Z he's very polite he's very respectful um he wasn't as aggressive in trying deal done he kind of just put it out there it didn't really work really for both of us and kind of moved on never heard from him again but i mean that dude's he's a very smart deal he'll love to be able to figure something out with him but it didn't really make sense at the time yeah because that's like a crazy co-sign right there to just be the guy who's doing the rapper of me

is like i got to do a deal with jazy i'm making the worst mistake in my life i told my part is we got figured out with this guy like man it doesn't make sense right we should and sell our company them right now. So I didn't want some of my company to them. I thought it would be cool to figure out a way to work with them some ways they were before him, but it didn't work. Yeah. But so Diddy didn't seem like he went on some sort of revenge campaign?

No, he was cool. He was like, look, man, like, stole me 10% real quick, you know, for being like an influencer for brand. Like, nah, I'm going to work. So he was on it and he kind of just dropped off. I didn't talk to me. And I think he'd unfollow me or something like that. Yeah.

I mean, that is kind of how it is with the big entertainers slash celebrity slash millionaires like them, that they get super jazzed up and excited about something, and then they could just very easily move on to the next thing. A-Conrary, I get a piece of cookies, too. Really? What year? It's like shortly after that. You could have dispensaries in Acon City.

Yeah, but, you know, I feel like a lot of people wanted to work with us, and I've been blessed to work with a lot of powerful people. I've been blessed to be able to turn down some powerful people as well because, like I said, Jay-Z's company is no longer around. It's not because of him, obviously. It's just because of people they had around them, I feel like. Yeah. just like overall fame and money is just not going to get you to the point of creating a coveted

weed brand. I work too hard for cookies. I can't let go like that. And really, like, I won't even throw out any names or anything, but you can think about so many people who are really influential people in the culture slash in the weed game who tried to do weed strains over the years that really didn't amount to anything. If I was a clout demon, I'd break down some of the biggest names in the game, bro, and just that approached me to try to do something. I was like, nope, no, no, no, no. You know, but things like

Gary Payton worked. It was like the number one, you know, selling a strain of weed in North America. And that started as a bootleg. Yeah, started as a bootleg. Somebody was bootleg in similar to like Obama runs. Yep. They just did it because they thought it was interesting. Yep. I met up with Gary made it official, popped it off. But like, I feel like it's tough. You know, the rapper in me, the fan of me wanted to work with a lot of people that approached me. It just didn't make sense. It didn't feel real. Definitely. What's your relationship with the guys from Runts like at this point? Because when Young Al-B. came on here, you kind of told the story of why things didn't work out.

Yeah, it's cool. Look, man, those are my homies. They try to do something with us and they didn't understand the long play. And I'm not upset with them for that. I got nothing but love for them. I was there when they birthed Runtz. I used to use my platform to help build them up as people. Obama is someone I used to date his sister when I was a kid.

You know what I'm saying? I helped them really get light. LB was around me at a very young age too You know what I'm saying We came up around the jacket So I feel like I got nothing but love for them It's all cordial, it's all love I wish they would understand the bigger play

But I don't expect anyone to understand Like a vision that's not even close to being done yet You know? They're going to do their thing I know LB's building jokes up I know Ray's working on fire society I don't really know where Runtz is at today as a crew But they did it did damage

They did their thing Yeah because even a couple years ago Like I was never 100% sure on exactly what that was But it felt like they kind of lost control of runs. Something happened. I mean, look, bro, business is tough.

And business is tough when you have multiple partners. That was like a crew. Think of it like a band. You know, bands or groups always have some kind of weird breakup shit going on, you know?

So I feel like it was tough for three personalities to be in one crew like that. But I got a number of love for them, bro. You know, they know they have open arms invitation and where I'm at any time. Definitely.

What, um, the next like great weed brand. What kind of environment? do you feel like that will come from or what would be the things that really allow them to shine in a crowded marketplace? I think I'm sitting a couple right now,

pop off, I think it's just based on genetics and being in the right place at the right time, just like cookies was. You know, you have something good that no one's ever seen before. You put in the right hand that the right time is going to blow. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, there's a lot of entrepreneurs I'll probably be watching this, so I guess they'll be having it. For sure, manage to stay consistent, find something that makes you stand out. Yeah, definitely. How are you feeling about the music? at this point you still got a few more albums in you

100% I'm about a knockout one while I'm here in town I'm just doing things that make sense for me right now me and baby face rate got a record that's like doing like 100,000 plus streams a day it's going crazy on some very natural organic shit and then I got a couple of hours I'm really focused on working with so I just want to do things that are fun at this point like I said already got 46 albums yeah I can retire right now

and make a living off music that's a blessing you know so I'm just going to do shit that makes sense for me definitely So you say you're going to do one while you're in town Do you have lyrics written or you just kind of go off the top No, I'm gonna go when I leave here I just sit down Like I said get nervous high, pull up a beat and just speak

For me it's like a journal It's like whatever's happening right now, you know? Yeah, I guess that's a good thing too About having a sort of laid back flow like yours You're not like worried about cramming words on it And I also not pressure to like make a bigger record Or try to get on the radio like I just do what I want to do It's cool because I can go back to my albums

And listen to what kind of zone I was in at the time So I was taught as the independent Bay Area artists to pull up, write your music right there in the spot, get it done, and I just drop it. That's it. Yeah. What's popping from your perspective in terms of music coming out of Northern California? Right now, the one umbrella shit's going crazy. Who's that? It's a group.

A low yee. You got all black. You got Isaiah bang. You got a couple other people and it's just fires, bro. Oh, I got to get on that then. It's really good. I've been listening to it a lot. that shit, Lil Bean, I believe, is in there, too.

Like, that shit's just fire, but. All black. I was just, he just came on, because I was listening to some old Draco, and he was on it. Yeah, I think one umbrella got a big wave right now. Like, their whole album is fired. The whole, like, them as a crew being outside, making moves, like, it's just fire to see.

Like, I love to see when a group album is not just an album recorded, like, sending verses in types of shit. These guys are rolling out. They're front road to basketball games or on private jazz or in the streets. Like, they're really rolling their album out right. We might be in the new age of the group, because that's what Denzel Curry's,

doing too. He's got a group where they set for a bunch of other people and it's kind of like maybe that'll because like it feels like it's hard to make people care about rap these days. Yeah, it is. So maybe the group thing is going to bring people back or like collective. Yeah, my boy Young Chatter is out there in the lobby. He's fires folk too. He's got a dope-ass album. He's doing his thing. I'm juiced about him too. I'm curious to see where he goes with it. Definitely. So, okay, I pay all the attention to a lot of different niches and it feels like there's a sense in hip hop that hip hop is kind of dead in the sense that BMX world feels like that's just kind of dead skateboarding I'm always seeing podcast clips of them talking about how that shit's dead

does it feel like the weed game is sort of in a similar moment where there's just like a lack of attention or excitement about it or you think that weed is kind of meant to survive those sort of downturns if you're lazy it's going to be dead I just I didn't mean we recently I sold 300 350s 356 grants for like 20 G's I saw less in the P for 20 Gs

It's the respect I put on it It's a brand new brand new strain No one even seen it I did two grants like You had to like four grants Like 100 bucks or something like that Or 200 bucks But point being is like if you put the right

Respect on your pack If the pack is something that no one's ever seen If you roll it out right If it's limited if it's truly small batch You can actually make money on it The weekend's not dead People just they're scared But what about

the enthusiasm that people maybe had five years ago that does that feel like it's kind of waned a little bit or is there still that excitement and interest in it um it's definitely it's definitely kind of whittled out you have to understand like the whole ppe money was insane yeah there was a time where melrose is doing like nine million dollars a month like nine mil a month that's insane yeah and i think people kind of ramped up for that and got excited about that and then it kind of went away and people are scared i mean look i wouldn't be fighting for this brand i wouldn't be sitting here today writing a book about the brand if I thought the ship was dead. It's just very alive.

I just have to put in a little more work. Yeah, no, definitely. It's just, when comes to the weed game, I feel like it's maybe kind of similar to the rap game where for a while there, I felt like people were very impressed by sort of gimmicks and cheap thrills. Yeah, for sure. And that would weed that was probably similar, right?

In that, there'll be people that was doing really dope shit. There's so many dope cultivators. I went around the whole country. I went all across the country on my tour and people were bringing me incredible weed every single stop I went to. small batch cultivators in Boston, New York, and you name it, Michigan, there's people with fire out there. And I just say, keep going, keep growing great weed.

And weed brings people together. When you have some super special, they'll come by it. No, definitely. If you're selling some, like, some, like, re-rock bullshit in a plastic bag with some cheesy-ass AR art, yeah, maybe you won't be that hot. But if you got some fire-ass weed, it's growing right, and some fucking put in the right hands, it's definitely a cop. I feel like AI has kind of spoiled graphic design for me.

personal level. Not that every shirt you see is AI, but I've seen so many AI shirts or AI graphics online that it's hard for me to look at like a Godspeed shirt and not kind of feel like I'm looking at AI, even if it really was a graphic. There's a balance of AI. You have to embrace artists because without artists, there's nothing.

And a great artist can use AI to help their job make it a little bit easier. But AI is only going to be directed by a dope artist to make it dope. I feel like in 2020-60, you have to kind of adapt would change. Don't do everything AI because it's lazy, but use AI to your advantage in certain scenarios and have a dope person behind it directing it, you know? Yeah, I feel like there's like 2016 Every day I was getting so many packages of clothes from brands that were trying to pop off and it doesn't feel like there's that flood of graphic design We're gonna see what you feel right now is there's a real we're in a real recession people probably won't admit it But like bro closing is down music is down live events are down

Weed is down alcohol is down stock is down Bro people is really spending money right now so in order if you're doing something if you're building a clothing brand If you're selling weed if you're doing a podcast if you're if you're doing anything you have to do it to your best ability because people are be very peaking what they spend money on right now Yeah, it's gonna be weird when the economy Inevitably has a bit of an upturn. It's gonna be weird to see where all that money goes. Yeah, I can't wait Yeah, because I mean I feel like a lot of it feels very convenient for me as a person who like I don't want to go out and drink So like alcohol clubs are kind of dead. Like, all right, this is great for me.

Clips are fucking done, dude. That's why I was here. But you ain't been that kind of guy for a long time. I don't drink. Yeah, I've been drinking in 18 years. We're 18. Shit. Okay.

Nah. Damn. That's impressive. All right. So what else you got coming up? What else we need to know about? I got the book out right now, becoming legend,

audio book and physical books right now. I got a movie called Splash City. Coming out this summer. I'll announce the partner here soon. It's a big studio. Shout out to them. and then I'm about to do a bunch of short short story content with them as well like like baby films like small films like short films nice now Justin Bieber song is

swag city or is that Splash City it's not splash City oh okay that's you sure yeah I'm sure okay if he has any holler at a mace out and get some promo club burger burger just in Beaver City what is it I don't know because I can't type for some reason Okay. Oh, that sounds just called Yukon. Oh, yeah. That's the one everyone likes, yeah. Now, Splash City is dope.

It's all about bipping. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. One's the last time you bipped? I don't bibp. I just, it was happening big time in my city, so I'm going to make a film about this shit. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it was crazy for a while out there.

Wait, okay. Yukon lyrics. Slide City. Mm-hmm. Close. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, brother. Huge fan. Yes, sir. So much respect. Everybody, this book, if you want to be an entrepreneur, if you want to make something out of yourself, it could definitely be the kick in the ass that you need. Yeah, sir.

I think it's fair to say. Shout out to burner, cookies, et cetera. No jumber. Coolest podcasts are a like, comment, and subscribe. Drop a comment. We'll be reading them. And shout out to all our members. Appreciate it, man.