No Jumper - Big Tone on Coming Up in Antioch, Woodie's Impact, Interracial Dating & More

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

Big Tone talks about his come up, Woodie, Lefty Gunplay, Mexican OT, and more. ----- Get the latest news & videos http://nojumper.com CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! https://shop.nojumper.com/ NO JUMPER PATREON   / nojumper   CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... Follow us on SNAPCHAT   / 4874336901   Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4z4yCTj... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media:   / 4874336901     / nojumper     / nojumper     / nojumper     / nojumper   JOIN THE DISCORD:   / discord   Follow Adam22:   / adam22     / adam22     / adam22   adam22bro on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world. And today we're tapping in with an up north legend, big tone in the building. What's up my brother? How you doing? How you feeling? I'm glad we were finally able to make this happen. Yeah, I appreciate you having me, man. Yeah, definitely.

I've heard a lot about you. Like, guys, I've been interviewing more and more people this year. Your name keeps coming up. So definitely, I think this is an important sit down. Yeah, for sure. And like I said, appreciate you opening doors for us. I've seen you at a couple of my brothers, you know, lazy boy, bands, RICO. So it's a pleasure to be here, bro.

No, my pleasure. So unless I'm forgetting somebody, this is the first Antioch interview I've ever done. Yeah. Nice. I believe so. The Yock. The Yock. My boy did his homework.

I'm not going to be honest. I'll be honest. I'm not really like comfortable saying the Yock. Like it doesn't feel cool coming out of my mouth. But I understand what you guys call it. Can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing and what's like out there? Yeah. So Antioch, California.

We're like a little east of Oakland. You know what I'm saying? I always say we're like in the middle of everything. We're about an hour away from San Francisco. Sacramento, San Jose. And really, man, just kind of, it was a small town at the time, turned into a city. And, you know, just kind of like any other little city growing up, you know, get into some trouble. You know, we had our little ways out there.

And, you know, I was fortunate enough to get in the music business, you know what I'm saying? And it took me another route. And, yeah, bro, other than that, you know, it's been, you know, it's been a journey, you know what I'm saying? So when you were growing up there, did it feel like from a young age that this was a crazy-ass place where all kinds of shenanigans happening, or did that kind of come in later? It kind of came in later, but it was there because it's such a small town.

So when you walk outside, you're going to school, you see, you know, obviously, you know, you see it got the gang culture out there and stuff like that. And, you know, I was always infatuated with that stuff as a youngster, but I was going to, like, lowrider bikes. I had a little lowrider bike club, riding, you know, deep with a bunch of homies

on the old school bikes, bumping all these type of stuff. But, of course, you know, up north you got you got a lot of that gang activity so yeah we fell into that type of stuff and yeah if it's in your face man that's what you idolize you know that's what you're looking at

so of course we kind of fell into that route and you know people that know the history know what's up you know what were your parents like man I come so I come from a pretty like straight Mexican family you know what I'm saying Pops is a hard work and still worker you know what I'm saying handle his business mom's old school Mexican Mexican

skin. Yeah, man, I really don't have the super sad story. My father did his thing to provide for us, but we didn't have a lot of dough, you know what I'm saying? So it kind of forced me to hustle. You know, me and my sister, man, my big sister, you know, we both grinders. You know, we wanted more. So yeah, bro, we always grinding, man. I would run around, try to mow lawns for money, wash cars, you know, and one thing was like there was also a lot of, a lot of drug dealing and stuff like that around. So I would see the dope boys get money. Kind of intrigued me.

So I got into that real young. So, you know, obviously my mom's really, I would say Catholic, you know, kind of old school Mexican, and kind of broke her heart catching me something dope young, you know what I'm saying? What age did you first catch you? 17. I was still going to school.

So got the boot, moved out, had my own little spot. I already had a couple whips, you know, you know. Had a little money in my pocket, so I kind of was able to move and pivot from that, you know what I'm saying? And were most people who are like, the streets at that time? Was it primarily focused around trapping? Because I feel like nowadays when I'm like talking to younger gang members or people who are in the streets or whatever,

usually it's more focused around wrapping slash beefing with people on the other side of town. And if somebody is selling drugs or if they do have a network of people that are making money hustling, it's almost like a separate endeavor from the street shit. Yeah, and almost definitely. That's why I was kind of jumping around. So obviously it was separate. You had individuals that were straight on. gang banging, you know, on the block, that's all they cared about doing. And then there was a separate set of individuals. That didn't really trip on gang banging. They were just getting money. You know what I'm saying? You're pulling up in ice cards, you know, just getting money. So I was watching both.

Of course, I was coming up with the homies, but I was also watching how the D-boys getting money, and I was intrigued with them, going to sit down and have nice dinners, you know what I'm saying, the way they're running around chirping on their necks tails, you know what I'm saying, rocking jewelry. So I was like, man, I was intrigued with that lifestyle. So I kind of took a little bit of both dabbled in what they were doing, brought it back to mine. And so we were kind of rocking that style. I was young, pulling up in like a ProPena, Cadillac, on Gold Dayans already.

I was still in high school, you know what I mean? Had a 96 and Pallon, gold ones on Zinif, so I took that lifestyle and brought it kind of, and represented the homies with it, and you know, that's the best of both worlds. Definitely. Were you always thinking about rapping, or when did that come in? Man, not really, so I was already a little older.

About 19 years old, and I met an individual, I met a homie that was produced. And back then producers, you know, I think we're the same age group. So producers weren't as common now. Not everyone's making beats, you know what I mean? So to have somebody that was making beats, I met him, his name was Kevin Knoxman, and we created our little label together. I was just intrigued with the, damn, well, those are, you're making beats, and I never really rap.

I was just on the boss side of it. Like, man, I could invest into this. And, you know, most people know me through my brother Woody, that passed away, rest of the peace. But I did one song, showed it to my brother. He loved it. And the rest was history, man, I was in the game. Wait, so when you start rapping, though, like, who are you looking at as someone that you see as successful? Was there anybody that you knew who was really tapped in with the music industry, or is everybody independently hustling?

That was my boy Woody. I was just talking about. Oh, so Woody was the first dude that you knew who had a label deal on stuff like that? Yeah, he was signed with Koch records back then. I don't know if you're familiar. Yeah, because they were more like the independent thing, Jim Jones. And a lot of dudes, like, as the major label shit was kind of starting to crumble and everything, everything was going online. There's like a lot of artists who were able to go to Koch

records and get a deal where they would be able to participate and get like a very large percentage of the profits. Yeah. And it was kind of had some of the benefits of being with a label, but then it was also separate from the major label. They would shoot you some money and let you do your thing with it, you know what I'm saying? And, uh, but he, he had his, he had motion without the label. So like if you were a Chicano from Northern California and even beyond, like everyone was slapping Woody, he, his, he was a real prominent figure in our culture, you know what I'm saying? So, uh, when he gave me the opportunity and And I was a fan of him before I met him.

You know, so once I did cross paths with him, we became friends. He gave me my opportunity. And like I said, that helped me hit the ground running, bro. Was he the first white Norteno that you met? Or just one of the first? Very rare, right? See, we're in our section is obviously different than up here. We got a mixture of people, you know, we got blacks, Mexicans, whites.

So we had a few white homies, you know what I mean. And he was the most known for sure, you know what I'm saying? Because he wasn't just a rapper. he was known, respected in the streets beyond the rap, you know. And was it like a personality thing? Like, did he just have that kind of charisma that made it clear to you that he was capable of being a celebrity? Or was it more about him just being better at rapping and making music?

I would say both. Because I know a lot of individuals that could rap that just don't have that charisma personality. So I would say both, you know what I mean? Because I would see people meet him and trip the fuck out, bro. They would look at him like they met, you know, Jesus, man. You know what I mean? I would see that as a youngster.

Like, damn, bro, he has that. He has that effect on people, you know what I'm saying? So he did have that for sure. So the white thing wasn't that big a deal to you? Like that... You look past that. Right. Yeah, you would look at the individual, you know what I'm saying?

Definitely. Yeah. Was he somebody who kind of made a name for himself in the streets or as a rapper first? Both. But I mean, we didn't have social media. And even if we did, people didn't announce that shit like that. You know what I'm saying? So now, I think now because of YouTube, they're doing documentaries and stuff like that.

Now things are unreal and revealing itself and people are seeing that the stories where he was spinning about. And they're putting two to two together now. Right. So back then, of course, people don't, you're just a white boy rapping or you guys are from Antiochian and shit. But now the internet and all that, people are going back and, like I said,

doing documentaries and stuff. There's a lot of people trying to make videos about the story of Woody and everything like that. For sure, it's like a serious thing. People are interested in now. He's huge in our culture, man. He's very, very, very well, you know, he's our big dog. You know what I'm saying?

And I always say when we're talking about like music from the 90s, or early 2000 show like that. It feels like rappers were like much less likely to put their real life criminal exploits in their music. But one thing that some of these documentaries point out is that Woody was like embedding little pieces into his lyrics that were talking about real life situations that people probably didn't know about at the time.

Like were you conscious of that? Yeah, he was intricate with that, man. He knew what he was doing. And he even said it in his rapes. Like I know detectives is trying to just call these raps. So he would, he was, that dude would play games. you know, it was real. So, you know, the police wrong people.

It was going down. So he knew how to, he knew how to maneuver it in a way he couldn't be prosecuted. And a song he did do where he was kind of creating a statement. He was already, he already went through trial and won it and everything. So we have that, whatever it's called the, I can't think of the word of it called. Double Jeopardy. Double Jeopardy again. Yeah.

Right. Definitely. But so, okay, he tapped him with you after you had only made like a couple songs? One. Real one song. So it's a. small town we were already kind of getting we were just young like I said I was throwing the picture early I was a young D boy chint him with the homies we had our

respect beyond our crew and he just it just it's like it was a game recognized game once I made him we just kind of hit it off you know what I'm saying like you know hey what's up brother I respect what you do he respected I hear about you youngsters out here so when I did do a song he was just like man you rapping now I got to hear this I pulled up on him it was him at Mount Mike's pizza him and little Loz, man, I pulled up, showed him the song, and you just told me, I would love to get you on my next project. To me, I felt like I made it. Wow. I was like, shit, I'm on, brother. I didn't care about nothing else, but I'm on right now. And I just like, you know what, bro, I went built a whole

little studio. And I was like, let me, let me perfect this a little bit better. I did kind of a better song, gave it to him. That song was actually one of the hits on his album, too, so it did really well for me. It wasn't something he just put on, and it got overlooked. That was one of the songs that ran it up, and heard a lot of people slumping it through the town, a lot of places I went, they were bumping it, a lot of car shows. There bumping it so it did it did it did good for me bro. From your perspective at that time how big was this sort of Northern California rap scene? Like because now we're kind of like used to there being all this underground street shit

that ends up getting millions of views and shit like that. But like this is kind of like a new invention at that time. It's like relatively recent. In particular it being so embedded in the streets and shit. It's like this is something that was kind of new. It was kind of fresh? Like from your perspective, was this something that you could become? rich and famous for or was this more like just a real expression of your street lifestyle?

I think a little bit of both but obviously if we could have been really like you could have blew up more obviously would have right but uh but I think because like it was new you know anybody that's early on to something is gonna get the most recognition before it gets I want to say cluttered but there's so many people doing it now so uh it was huge but but like I said we're taking it back to the late 90s early 2000s when most chicano rap or homeboy rap was kind of on some chollo shit still you know like like that was the the stilo back then with the music and so when wood came out he came out just like spitting gas and because he would listen to the shit we listened to a lot of barrier rappers you know the the 115s and the um the andre nicotina's and you know just the

bay area stuff you know what i mean so he came in with that whole that whole that whole that whole style man and it just like shocked a lot of people you know what I'm saying and they weren't used to seeing that you know it was crazy definitely so do you relate to that conversation that we've kind of been having on the podcast a little bit about if the north of California is a little bit like like in terms of the chicano rap community are you guys a little too influenced by the black community how do you feel when you see people having that conversation I wouldn't even say influenced by the by the black community it's just that it's just a culture thing I would say um you know like I said because we have white people we have black homies we have Mexican homie it's just I wouldn't I can't

explain it because I'm from a different time where we were kind of mixture of both. A lot of my OG homeboys were like super cholo. Listen to oldies, lowriders. We rocked the Ben Davis and Dickies and Cortez. I used to baby cuff my pants. I was on low rider bikes. So I come from that culture, but we were kind of mixed. We were somewhat cholo, but we were still talking a little bay with it.

You know what I'm saying? Of course, it's evolved to this time where the styles a lot changed, but that's just anything, styles always change, you know. Motown to disco, to. 80s to 90s to now, you know? Right, definitely. So did you then become part of Woody's label? How does your relationship kind of evolve from there?

I was always like, I don't like working under nobody. I was always my own boss. I built my own label, I built my own studio. I didn't really ask my brother for much, but advice, game, and a few verses, and that was it. I got my own production, my own. He gave me a lot of wisdom. This is how I'm distributing.

This is what I'm doing. This is how I'm doing that. and a lot of just education, man. But I wasn't sitting there waiting for, like, what's the next you're going to do for me? You know, appreciate the opportunity. That's why we became friends. I didn't just need them.

You know what I'm saying? It was more of a mutual. We kicked it way more than we did music. Really? Yeah. Interesting. So were you so close to him that you were kind of involved in whatever types of shit that he had going on in the streets,

or is that kind of like that's before my time. Okay. He was about nine years older than me. Okay. So a lot of that stuff had transpired. A lot of his crew was already, I don't know if he did research. A lot of the people I've already,

diminished, he went separate waves, died, prison, all that stuff. And we were kind of the new wave coming in. That's why I feel like maybe it was refreshing for him. He was getting older. He lost a lot of his friends. Here comes some young homies with some game, you know what I mean, and kind of brought some new life to, he was already doing his thing, so I feel like it helped each other.

He was up here, and it helped us come up there too, and we helped bring power with him too, you know what I'm saying? In the lead-up to him passing away, like, how much communication did you guys have, Or like, what was your perspective on where he was at in his life? I was talking to the end. Okay. I'll rock a bro to the end. You know, I don't want to get in too much details because there's a lot of unanswered questions on my end.

I'm confused about a lot of shit. But he, you know, he was around some snakes. You know what I'm saying? And, bro, bro, just, you know, bro lived the crazy life, man. The shit he rap about is real. And when you're a good dude and you live some real shit, sometimes that shit haunts you, you know what I'm saying? Anybody listens to his music, he's telling you. the type of shit to go through. You know what I'm saying? Definitely. So are you in any way skeptical

about the narrative that he took his own life? Somewhat, yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. But there's nowhere for you to really go with that. There's like no way that you'd be able to like uncover more truth. I beat myself up going crazy trying to figure it out for years. You know what I'm saying? I have my, you know, my thoughts, but that's just the because you know my thoughts, man. So yeah, I would beat myself up so I try not to get into that too much down that rabble because because yeah, you're right. I'd be a dead end trying to figure that out. You know what I'm saying? Makes sense.

So when he passes, what's the reaction in your area? Like, does it immediately... I'm devastated, man. Does he immediately become, like, the way that Nipsey Hustle kind of became for the 60s in L.A. and stuff like that is he just immediately become a symbol of the whole area. You know, the core part is when you pass in your prime, you become like that. You know what I'm saying? When you're still booming and you're still rocking and rolling and you pass, that's how they remember you.

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, he became that symbol for us. still to this day. What, 16, 17 years now? You know, and you see, go right now, there's people still posting the bottom to his day. You know, he still, you know, he's our, you know, we put him up there, you know what I'm saying?

Right. Definitely. So does that kind of become part of your career then to, like, keep his name alive? Yeah, for sure. Because I've seen this so many times over the years of, like, once somebody passes, then it kind of becomes, like, I guess it's not so much an opportunity,

but it's almost like a responsibility for the people who are close to him just still perform his songs and try to keep his name alive. You got the people that try to leach off the name and try to just run with the coattel stuff. And you got some people that were genuine friends of him that cared for him and were there. And he changed my life. Like I said, before music, I had no direction in life.

I would end up like most of my own boys. I would end up in prison or dead, the basic cliche. You know what I'm saying? And him giving me that opportunity and was walking. him that hey we could do so I could do the same shit is he's doing not on the same caliber but it just gave me the gave me a vision in an outlet and when he did give him the opportunity it changed my life man I don't need to be doing this shit crashing now man I was enjoying going to the studio cooking up with the homies you

know what I'm saying I was sitting here with big bro Wood was it was an honor for me to see and make music with him that gave me more pleasure than he's getting drunk on the corner you know what I'm saying I didn't even think of this until the moment that you just called him wood but was his name a reference to like the woods like His last name was Wood. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Okay. Because I'm always kind of like referring to myself as a wood, but it's like I don't have a prison background, so I'm just saying it. Yeah. But okay. You would. Yeah, not. He had, I think he had to deal with somebody. I don't know because when he did, when he was doing some time, he had to probably deal with that.

But that's before my time. But that was his last name, bro. So that's why he called him Woody. Okay. Makes sense. So are you saying that like up to the point where he passed, you are still a little two in the streets and that kind of made you want to take a step away? We was already, this was way already some years. in, you know, what would your question?

Just like, at that time, were you still, like, you kind of made it sound like you took a step back from the streets at the time that he passed. Is that something that happened? I want to say take a step back from the streets. We just weren't doing the, we just had something to work on. Just like any homies I hear that got some shit going on, whether there's music, trapping, you know, any kind of business. It just gives you something to do other than just sit there and don't do nothing, you know what I

mean? So it gave us a direction. We would chill. I had a little studio there. We would chill 30 deep at the studio. If you knew my first album, you'd hear nothing but drunk homeboys in the background. You know what I'm saying? So it gave us something to do. And it gave me a goal. Like, I could do this? If I become successful at it, it could open up more doors. And it just, I was always been a hustler, you know, business orientated? So it just sparked that that business mentality in me, you know what I mean? Definitely. So do you feel like your career went up from there? Like, at what point do you feel like you were kind of at your peak? or the height of your popularity? You know what's crazy is with the music? It's right at that time I was a new artist, but I was only marketing to gangbangers.

That's all that. When I popped out in certain cities, it was love nothing from homies, but no one else recognized what we were doing. And I started doing different kinds of music evolving, like mixing more R&B-ish into my music, and it started becoming more popular with like the females and stuff like that.

So I would say, I don't know, the, you know, the 2000s on up was doing pretty well, but I started evolving more to what I'm trying to do more is just more of a brand of myself, like not depending on music. And so, yeah, my music doesn't need to be the hottest shit smoking, but I do got a pretty good following on a fan base. There's a lot of love when we go out. So that to me means more than anything than actually just being a current hot artist, you know what I'm saying? Because you know as well as I know, that shit only has a short amount of time for every artist, you know what I'm saying, unless they do something else with it afterwards. Right, definitely. No, I was watching. I was watching, you know, I was

watching some old videos of like you at you know concerts and shit back in the day and it's definitely like you had a little bit of a different energy like you're you're you you definitely seem like you might have been a little bit more inclined to to trip on somebody yeah as a younger man like you've kind of just seen yourself slowly like calm down a little bit and gain like a little bit more of an even temper yeah life will humble you as you get older you know and if you're smart you know you you could stay that I know plenty of homies that never got they ended up or to end it up. I'm not a stupid person, man. If I continue to move this way, where am I going to end up? Like I said, I watch people. I'd watch these dudes. They're getting money, man. Oh, this dude's buying

houses. This dude's buying properties. This dude's opening businesses. This dude's on drugs. This dude's going to prison in and now. This dude's a dophine. Which ride am I going to follow? You know what I'm saying? I'm inspired by the homies getting money. I'm inspired by these dudes. So if I want to go out here and be a high head and crash out every time I know I'm going to end up. Let me chill out a little bit. Change my way of thinking. Become more cool instead of trying to pop my chest out. You know what I'm saying?

And, you know, energy doesn't lie, man. If I walk in looking for trouble, most likely we're in attracting. And rap is a crazy profession because it's one of the very few pastime, or one of the very few areas of life in which even if you become successful, there's like pretty consistent pressure from the fans for you to do some crash out shit on a consistent basis. Like they want you to like prove that you really are who you say you are slash they want to see you do some dumb shit.

And they'll, they'll criticize things that from an adult perspective don't even make sense. If they see you rolling around with security, they'll be like, oh, he's a bitch, you got security. Whereas to like anyone with a fucking brain, that's probably you just being safe about how you're moving around. That's the cold part of this game is we glorify destruction. Not even just rap street shit.

But then again, bro, like I said, I kind of grew up watching even just, I want to just, just fascinated with, like, the Italian mafia, how they moved. They were businessmen. You didn't see Al Capone out there. Coastal Nost, Germain, you know what I'm saying? But that is funny is that the younger generation of rapper, if you listen to rap from the 90s and shit,

they're massively influenced by that shit, whereas I don't, you see very few rappers who've got, like, the fake Italian last name thing going on and shit, which used to be, like, a very consistent thing. For sure, yeah. And, I mean, I feel like, to me personally, this is my opinion, I feel I respect being more reserved now. But, like I said, I understand being young.

and like I said, we glorified destruction, man. You want to sit there and inhale balloons and do all this bullshit, you know, hey, cool, whatever. But some people look at that as cool, but that has a time limit where you're capped out. And if you're still doing that at 40 years old, but now they don't look at you as cool no more.

And how you look like a fucking bum, in my opinion. You know what I'm saying? So they got to see the evolution. But you're right, man, you know, people love pain, tormented. So I've seen a documentary about Rick James. And once Rick James got sober, his music fell off. They love the, they love the, the, the, the, the fucked up part of Rick James, you know what I'm saying? Right.

Nah, definitely. You mentioned the balloons in particular, but it's like, there's always shit like that, like where, you know, a 20-year-old drinking lean thinks he's the coolest fucking dude in the world. Realistically, by the time you get to 40 or so, is pretty unlikely that you're going to find somebody who's still drinking lean on a consistent basis because it just fucks your health up so bad. Yeah. There were problems that shit in the hospital like breaking me. And for somebody like me, it would be very hard for me to, like, pick up.

up drinking lean on consistent basis when I could think of like boozy interviews. I could think about all the shit Gucci is said about there's so many legends when I think about how ASAP yams died. When I think about all the health problems that Pimp C had, it's like I have infinite resources that I can point back to to be like that's probably not the right direction to go with my life. But that's like an integral part of youth is that you don't want to listen to what your parents have to say or where your elders have already lived through. Yeah. And I'm, I'm, I'm, shit, I party, bro. I kicked it when I was young. So I'm not going to say I was like this my whole life. You know, like I said, it took.

for life to humble me. I have friends overdose. I had homies that, like I said, but I lost a lot of people around me. When you see that, something's going to click in your brain if you're somewhat smart. Like, bro, this shit ain't cool. This ain't it. You know what I'm saying? And then, you know, obviously, like I got into more working out and stuff like that. I like to go to the gym, buzzed down. I always look up to the homies that were in shape, fit. They would come out looking slow. I was always that, oh, that's a definition of my homie right there. You know what I'm saying? I wasn't looking at the dogfeen, Scrony homie, fucking shooting shit in his fucking vein, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, that's the homie, you know what I mean? So I've always had that mentality, too. That's what kept me kind of staring away from a lot of that bullshit, you know? Yeah, I mean, as you get older, like, being healthy, eating good, working out is like how you keep yourself feeling young. Whereas when you're young, a lot of people would look at that and, like, stigmatize it and be like, oh, he's on some muscle head shit and that shit ain't cool. I mean, you sit here with a lot of young artists.

What's your opinion when you see that? Like, when you see someone on your talking how they talk, do you look in a them like damn you got a lot to learn youngster or you're like or you're like cool yeah that's dope yeah definitely like a lot to learn like damn i hope you make this transition well but the problem can be when you're talking to somebody who it's obvious that the drug use or the smoking on ops or the crazy gang disses or whatever that's like integral to their success like the fan base wouldn't really be as interested in them if they weren't doing all that shit so i'm sitting there feeling like i hope you are able to get past this like very dangerous period

your life, but also I'm kind of unsure how the fans would react if you were to just reject this shit right now. People are probably more intrigued with the story than the music. Like, what are they saying about them? They're more interested in the controversy, probably more than the music. They're not solely depending on their talent and their music. You know what I'm saying?

It was in the 90s or the 2000s, it's like you could kind of blur the facts and it was like a little bit difficult for the fans to necessarily tell who's the super gangster dude and stuff. And that's one thing that worries me a little bit about living in this like YouTube essay, where everybody has all of their crimes and their criminal history documented online is that even if you look at like the Chicago drill scene, which I look at as kind of like the forefathers of like modern

telling on yourself ass gangster rap music, a lot of those dudes, the dudes who blew up and became super famous when you do your homework and you really look at like who was alleged to be catching bodies and shit like that is not really the dudes who became famous for rapping. Now it feels like the city is probably not going to necessarily get behind a lot of artists unless. they have that kind of reputation and the audience is capable of figuring it out much better than they were able to in the past, which that's a scary sign of events because you have a lot of dudes who you see them kind of like blown up as a rapper and within a couple of months somebody kills them. Yeah. And it's just like that, like the whole process has been sped up so much. Because people can't separate the lifestyle from the business. There's a point where, yeah, to become respected as a rapper and a street rapper, you have to come from the streets,

you've got to be from that soil, but there got to be a time where you become a business. man, it's just the part of evolution. They're growing up. Like I said, if you're the same dude at 40 years old and you're 20, there's no evolution on you besides a little extra some money. You know what I'm saying? So there's got to become that point because we do have rappers that have done that. We do have the in our section, the E40s and the

burners and the two shorts. You know what I'm saying? You do have, you know, the Jay-Zs and stuff like that in different areas. And I'm sure all across, they knew how to transition from, okay, now I'm running the business. I don't need to do the dumb shit to keep showing you. I'm a tough guy. You know what I mean? At what point do you got to

be like, look, bro, this is, we got an opportunity here, let's get some money. Tell me your thoughts on this, though, is that recently I was doing an interview with somebody, and they mentioned something on the lines of, like, a 20-year-old or an 18-year-old who's in the streets is not going to listen to a 40-year-old, but they'll listen to a 25-year-old. They'll listen to somebody who's a little older than them, but they're not going to listen to somebody once you get to a certain level of adulthood, which is a shame, but it also does seem like that's mostly true. I kind of beg to differ on that because, and this is just my personal experience.

Me, when I, I mingle with the little homies. I'm not one of those dudes to turn my back on my people. I don't do the dumb shit I used to do. I don't portray myself like I'm that type of dude anymore, but I still pop out and I communicate my youngsters. I'm still in the mix. And the respect is there. They soak it up.

I give them game on how to move. And they see like, okay, you know, obviously there's levels to the shit. I got a lot of room to grow. But hey, I see how you're moving, bro. You're just invested in that. You got this, you got this. And they ask questions.

They're intrigued. So it gives them something to look forward to. what I'm saying? So that's just my, my opinion. Now, if I would have been just like, yeah, I gave it with the lifestyle, fuck you kids change your life, they would have been looking me like, yeah, you're a sucker, brother. We ain't hearing you. But I'm shit, I'm right there with you, my boy, you know what I'm saying? Let me show you how we do this, you know? So, yeah, I think it's just, it's on the messenger, man. You know what I mean? And somebody was telling me the other day that it's not just about telling the kids what they need to hear once. It's about

telling them over and over and over because that's just how a young person's brain works is that if you tell them to stay away from the streets, to tell them to be careful in such a way or whatever. If you tell them one time it's very unlikely to work, you have to kind of keep reinforcing that year by year. I think you got to show them more than tell them. Right. You know what I mean? Telling them is just words. You know, you got to show them something because then why do I, why am I going to look at you if you ain't doing nothing with yourself? You know, you're telling me do this, but you ain't doing nothing with yourself. So you got to show them you doing something. You know what I mean? By action. Definitely. From your perspective,

these days, Antioch, how connected are you to that music scene or how how do you feel about that? Because it feels like up north, it's like every different city has like a handful of people representing them, et cetera. And I'm sure the music scene has changed dramatically. But how do you, how do you view that and your influence on it? Man, Antioch is such a small, small city now to music. We still have people out there doing their thing. We do have like, are you familiar? Like Mike Sherm? Yeah, he's a pretty big artist from our section. Right. What I'm saying? Simba, you know what I mean? As far as like Northerners and Chicano's and stuff like that.

There's a lot of aspiring people, but it's hard to break through these days. It is a cluttered market, you know, but it's, we've got a lot of people out there that are talented. It's just harder to be seen. It was in our days, you know what I mean? Does it feel like it's harder to be seen? Because sometimes when I look at the way that some dude from a neighborhood is able to, like, put together a decent look of music video and it could get hundreds of thousands of views

in a short period of time. It feels like it's almost easy to get seen, but it's like the algorithm kind of has to shine upon you the right way, I guess. You're right. It's easier to be seen. but it's easier to really grasp a fan base, to be successful after that one video that might have went up because people were trawling

and banging and that banging and whatever, it went after that video. Because you might get a video that got 5 million views because everyone's talking shit on it and it's getting controversy, but what's following up after that. You dropped the music video after that, no one cared, you know what I'm saying?

But that's thought what I meant, it's hard to build a, actually a music career out of that, you know what I'm saying? But from your perspective, how do you see the current sort of climate in which it's hard for rappers to get attention unless they're talking about super street shit and essentially telling on themselves

slash talking about things that, you know, prior generations would not have supported them speaking about in songs or on the internet. It's tough. It's a pissing contest. Who's tougher? Fuck you, fuck him. Who looks the hardest? And it's just, like I said, I think people are intrigued with, okay, these dudes gassed, these dudes, let's listen to their ops now.

You know, it's people are more interested in the controversy. and it just appealing. I mean, I grew up listening to gangster rap. I didn't want to hear no positive shit when I was young, so I understand that's the music industry. I don't know. Some of our brains that gravitate towards that, bro. We just, people just love in the streets, you know what I'm saying?

Definitely. But, like, do you still work with younger artists or would you sign an artist who was on that kind of shit? Yeah, I still work with artists. Yeah, I mean, that shit don't stray me away from nobody. Why would I be like, hey, bro, that's contradicting myself. I grew up. I work with every one of the homies you had on you so far. Those are my people. You know what I mean? These are people I talk to all the time, bro. You know, I don't shy away from

that because that's our lifestyle and our background. And that's what they're doing. They're telling their story and how they live. You know, why would I shy away from that? Now, like I said, when it's one-on-one time with these artists, I try to give them some different guidance. You know, okay, this is what's working for you right now. I'm thinking five years ahead. You interview a lot of people that are booming. How many people stay booming five years? from when they went up. Yeah, it's like some small percentage of the time, you end up with like a really uplifting, inspirational story

about like, damn, this dude, I gave him an interview when he had 20,000 followers, and now look at him, he's got millions of followers, and he's making all this money, he's doing great. But then more often than not, there's the interviews that people don't really remember that well or the ones where the person's life goes in a catastrophic direction, and you end up just looking at the interview,

like, damn, that's kind of a sad story. man, homie. In high school, he was the man, honey. Damn homie, it's right, yeah. But they, I don't know. It's like, it's crazy because, like, interviewing underground rappers and particular street rappers, it is, like, it's just a roll of the dice.

Like, if you interview 100 dudes, you're probably going to have, like, five that achieve some legitimate amount of success, and then, you know, a large percentage of the rest of them might go a different one. The ones that achieve that success, they obviously got to do something outside of rap. A lot of times.

Most of them, because, All right, could you name, I'm curious, name an artist that you know that's achieved a lot of success that's been around the past, say, four years that's like still just crushing it on numbers and everything. I'm curious to know. I'm really. A lot of times it becomes kind of like, you know, you go from having this like extreme upward trajectory towards you have to develop like a grind, like a consistent workflow, et cetera. I look at somebody like, O'GZ from Shoreline Mafia. in my mind for sure, who like pretty much the most like influential Mexican group from L.A. in the last 10 years or really maybe ever. And they come out, shall say, but they come out and they do their thing and they have this like explosive moment.

And then once that kind of levels out, somebody like him has to figure out like, okay, how am I going to make X amount of dollars per month so that I can keep this lifestyle and continue this thing on? And that's when you really kind of start to see who's got legs in their careers. is once you stop having your viral moment and you have to figure out how to have a consistent moment, you know? That's crazy because that's probably one of the only names. I'm thinking from out this way that I could think of, you know what I'm saying?

Because we go back our way, we do have individuals that done well for themselves. You know, you go think of like the burners that did music and created one of the biggest, you know, cannabis companies, you know what I mean? I got a lot of individuals that E40 did the wine, you know what I'm saying? My brother AWAC's right here.

He's got a very successful business. He only does outside of music. And I see that. So when people utilize the music to help promote their brand, I think that's how they stay more in the mix. Because eventually people are going to get tired of hearing your voice. I just sounds fucked up, but it might be a cool five, six year run. But eventually the next generation is to come up and be like, damn.

You have to have real artistry to survive on just your music. Like a name that comes to mind when I'm talking about Northern California is like pretty much Mazi's, like kind of the blueprint for how you can just really be focused on the music and remain relevant for all those years. Which when you think about it, 10 years ago, for, you know, the average viewer, we kind of get introduced to Mazi and this crazy-assie and this crazy-ass story. about all this beef and crazy disc songs, resulting in killings, et cetera. And that only is really going to, like, fuel your career for so long. Yeah. For him to be able to still be so popular years and years later,

this is a different skill set. Yeah, that's a perfect case and point where people like to see evolution. If you would have just capped out on that street shit, it would only went so far. But there was evolution in that career. He was getting more money, making bigger ties. You know what I mean? And people were seeing that so kept people interested because he kept growing. You know what I mean?

And when people see that, they stay in tree. But like you said, if five years went down the road and you're still in the same neighborhood, really wrapping about the same shit, there's going to be a point where, like, cool, on to the next, you know? Right, definitely. So, okay, every time one of you guys, one of you Northerners comes on this podcast, it becomes a whole. You know, Northerners. You're like I said that.

It becomes like a controversy, but I feel like the controversy never really seems like it's coming from the Northerners. Like, once in a while, there'll be some little sub disses thrown on their Instagram story or whatever that people will draw attention to. but for the most part, it kind of feels like you guys get a lot of grief, a lot of bias against you, but it's not necessarily something that y'all seem so concerned about. Yeah, I've been seen. I mean, I watch you.

You watch what's going on with the new generation, the Internet and stuff like that. And I think we move different. There's no reason to, I know it would be more entertaining for you. I'm sure you would love to ears to come up and say a lot of this stuff. But, you know, it's cool being. But really, if you don't, that's a lot of sense. simpler for me as well. I mean, it is what it is, bro. Because, you know, in this, beyond music, it's real life, man. People got to deal with real repercussions outside of this, man. So,

when you understand that, you move different. Anything you say, we'll be used against you in the court of law, you know what I'm saying? So you got to be a little more reserved. Think about what you're putting out there. Everyone knows what time it is that's involved. And that's all that matters, you know what I mean? And, you know, even me coming out here, but I know where I'm at. I don't need to come out here disrespectful and disrespect anybody, you know what I'm saying? I move strategic. I actually come out here a lot. I have business partners out here. I come out here with my old lady. We go sit down and have nice dinners out here. I don't really trip on that. I don't move in the, I know how to move. I don't just pop up in any

neighborhood and be like, yeah, I'm out here, this and that. But, you know, I don't come out here disrespectful, you know, and we got a different mentality. Now, it push comes to shove. We obviously know what time it is. But on that level, yeah, I don't got too much of a cool story for you on that, bro. We just, be reserved a little bit, you know? No, totally. And honestly, that's kind of the feeling that I got from the lazy boy interview. I was kind of expecting him to

maybe talk a little more shit. He didn't really go for it. Rico too smooth, super respectful and just, like, really handling himself like a G on that interview and everything. Bands was kind of like talking his shit a little bit more. Maybe he was getting a little bit with it. My brother. Yeah, he was having a little bit more fun with it. But for the most

part, it feels like that's not necessarily... I just don't know why Bands, my boy, why did you smell the Fifi, man? Why didn't smell the fee fee, bro? Other than that, bro, shout out to my... He was on one. I don't know. But, yeah, it feels like it's not a conflict

that you guys are necessarily, like, trying to antagonize, whereas it does feel like a lot of other people kind of enjoy using it for YouTube content and whatnot. It works. It works. You know, it works. Hey, bro, I'm mad at it.

Do your thing. If it works for you and it's running your numbers up, go after it. But like I said, this should be real life outside. out of here, man, sometimes. And a lot of people don't move outside their section. I don't know the individuals I hear in some individuals. A lot of people kind of stay in their own realm. Me, I move around a lot. I'll pop out in a different state. I've been out the country. I just move around a lot. So I know, like, I'm more liable to bump into people than some people that never

leave their neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? Definitely. And just as somebody who's kind of older, how do you view those sort of conflicts going on up north and everything? Like, is it, like, How do you try to guide, like, a person away from, like, getting too deep into that, especially as somebody who's just, like, seen a bigger and better version of life? Like, but meanwhile, like, it's kind of hard for you to fully preach to someone when, you know, I won't do that. I want to do that preaching and guide them away. It's more, like I said, trying to show them.

Sometimes, bro, some people are, it's, and I will never do this as, like, disrespect any of my brothers. You know what I mean? Like, there's been a lot that goes behind this. all I do is try to show them a different way of living. Like I said, I've never turned my back on my people. You know what I'm saying? I never sit there and said, don't do this. Don't do that.

I've never been that dude. So if that's how they feel, hey, I'm not going to tell them any different. You're a grown man. You know what I mean? How you feel? If you feel like you've been disrespected, do what you feel is necessary. Now, we're free to make that choice. But like I tell you, we're not free of the consequences of that.

You know, if that's where you want to direct your energy, do it, bro. But if you want to try to get some money and try to build something, Like you said, you got to move a little different. Now, if something does happen, remember, everything you're putting out is documented. You're talking, you're saying this. Now, if something does happen, they're going to use every, I'm sure you've probably seen this. It'll bring up all that shit in evidence, man. So I'm more on that mindset.

You know, it's fun and games online until some shit really go down. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I wonder if up north it feels like the cops are a little bit more oppressive than they are up here because sometimes I'm, like, I live for eight years in New York City, and I just still, I'm just dumbfounded by. how fucking intense the policing is out there. Is that the vibe up north a little bit more, too, where it feels like the cops are really, like, on shit?

I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think they do, like, just, I think you, I even seen you post it on your story about G.B. He's seen what happened to my brother G. Right, because we were just starting to talk to him and stuff. My brother, G.B., man. Yeah, we were just talking about doing an interview with him and stuff,

and then he gets this big ass indictment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So stuff like that, you know, and I just, you know, G. He's out, man. I just had to sit down with him. and we talked about that stuff. Because the thing is, he does a lot of positive stuff.

Right. He's grown so much as a man, too, and he does a lot of things for the community. It's crazy how much has evolved. But it still doesn't matter, bro. He still, they'll still wrap you up with everyone else. You know what I'm saying? Definitely.

This has been a topic that has been kind of going on on the meme pages and all that over the last few days. Do you have kids? Yeah. How many kids? I got two and a step, son. Yeah. Okay.

So three. Yeah. If your daughter one day, brought home a black boyfriend. How would you feel? Well, you know what? Like I said, I'm from the back, so we think different. I judge on the individual, not necessarily that. Now, it's the individual.

You come in disrespectful, you come in and I can see you're up to no good. I don't give a fuck if you're white, black, Mexican, any of that. Bro, you're a piece of shit, dude, I can tell. You come in respectful, you're a man, and you present yourself right, and I can see you got a head on your shoulders, but I'll shake your hand. You know what I'm saying? So it all depends on the individual itself, man. I can't, you know, we all have, even, I'm Mexican, I love my culture,

but we have fucked up people just like every other race. But we got just each person is case by case, man. So the race car don't fly with me. It's the individual. You know what I'm saying? And especially like I feel like you've got to meet your kids on a logical level at a certain point. And I feel like in this modern TikTok fucking climate, telling your daughter that she's not allowed to date whoever the fuck she wants to date, like based on their race and not their character. To me, like, you're kind of asking.

to create a rift between your kid right there because your kid is most likely not going to have the same prejudices that you have, you know? So I'm on board with you for sure. It's about the individual. I understand the old school way of thinking and sometimes it transpires to the new generation and up here it is a little different politics.

You know what I'm saying? I think it's been separated more than we have been. So I could understand, not agree, but understand why certain people think that way because it's been instilled in them. You know what I'm saying? So out there, we've been a melting pot. Like I said, we've been a right.

I grew up with black people. I grew up with white people. You know, some of my good homies I've done business with her are, you know, black and white. So I don't look at it as that. It's just each person, man. If I sit down with you and I can tell you a solid person, I could just read you. I could read somebody in the first 10 seconds of sitting down with you. You know what I'm saying?

So that's all I need to know. Because it all has to do with how much you read into somebody's race as part of their identity. Because hypothetical situation, if you were to tell me that there's like, you know, fathers in Palestine who don't want their daughters to date in Israeli. Yeah, I get it. That's more religion. Y'all are killing each other. That's more of religion than race.

Right, but like we kind of like, as Americans, we're kind of like more accustomed to the idea that your race does not necessarily define your character or what side you're on, et cetera, that there's a lot more to it. We have a more nuanced view of it, I guess. Yeah, yeah. You have kids? Three and a half year old daughter. Okay.

So when she was to say she's 20 years old, what would your feelings be? I mean, same thing you said. It's like if the guy seems like he's a good guy, if he seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders, for sure, I fuck with it. If he comes in on some cocky egotistical shit, that's like a dad's fucking worst nightmare. If he comes in all peeled out and he's got to piss on his waist or something,

like, y'all know I've been around this shit too long. You ain't, he's not fucking with my daughter, man. Yeah. My worry would just be like, is she going to take you serious when you tell it that? Or is she getting to decide to go full rebel? And really, that's up to you and me, how we raise them. Like I'm blessed.

My daughter's 17 years old. She's a good kid. Honor roll student, got her job. She got her head on straight. You know what I'm saying? And blessed, it could be luck of the draw, but that's up to us to instill that. But do you feel like she has any kind of like lurking fascination with the street stuff that you come from? The opposite.

I tripped out on that. I figured she might. She would have. Some percentage of kids are just going to reject that. Yeah. And it's cool. Like, you know, she don't glorify that. She's just like, when we go out and people take pictures, they just step back.

You know, they don't, they're not. intrigued with it. I think they've been used to it. I've been in the game a long time. They're used to it. So it's not such a big deal to them. You know what I mean? But if I was young and my pops is a superstar like that, I probably would have been hell of juice. You know what I mean? But yeah. But has she ever like told you like, hey dad, I watched this little YouTube video saying this saying this. Yeah, her friends. Yeah, her friends. They're probably going to see this and tag her. And she's all my friends are, you know, for sure. Yeah. But I don't think she, she, she, that doesn't get to where she's, I'm telling you, I'm proud of her. You know what I'm saying? Right. Because I mean,

so much of the stuff that my parents were into, I just basically rejected it. a fuck about. My parents loved all these sports teams that I didn't care about. I like some shit, man. I love sports too, man. I'm a nine-er-in. Certain things just don't hit, though. Like, you know, a lot of people don't necessarily go with the religion that their parents present to them. You know, like myself.

But, like, you know, that's... What more religion are your parents? They were Christian, like, growing up. But then it kind of felt like, as time went on, they sort of fell back from it, and then I was never really into it in the first place. It was a black sheep just rebelling? For sure. Yeah. Nothing wrong with it? Definitely.

Yeah, man. Um, okay. So I, I gotta mention the haircut. It's like, and it's not just the Mexicans are doing it too, because shout out to Stockton, all of them. They got the shag haircut with a little puff down here and everything. When I had Chita Ranas on here, he has a fucking super technical, elaborate version of this haircut. What is the origin of, basically, and for the people who can't see it, it's kind of like, it's, you got some length on the top, but then there's like a shaved part and then you go into like an elaborate tail type thing. Like what is the origin of that has always been around? I'm going to be so I've had my hair cut like this for 25 years.

I don't know. It's been, it's been, it's been the same. I posted a video the day when I was 17 and my tail was still just as long. But back then, a lot of homies wearing Mongolians. They used to be like a circle on top of the head. In my little section, like if you was wearing a Mongolian, you'd get violated. Our little gang unit and probation officer, like you got a Mongolian, you violated. That was a little thing.

So we thought we had a little loophole. We thought we're slick little kids. We're just going to put a tail on the bottom of the head. He used to be called a bartail. I used to run it across the whole back of my head and let that thing bang. And I don't know about the origin. I've just been rocking it.

And I've seen it come back recently, which is kind of cool because I've been rocking this hairstyle for a long time, bro. And I see a lot of youngsters rocking it now, you know what I mean? So was there a time period where you felt like a lot of people were just confused by it in terms of younger kids? And now it's a little more.

Right, yeah. I think people used to have like the little rat tails, I think, in the middle, but not all the way across the back like that. I don't, to be honest, I didn't pay attention to it that much. I know we get weird looks, people looking at like, what the fuck's on the back of your head? You know what I mean? And that's something that gives fuel to people out here like, man, the fucking ponytail, this and that. But it's been our style, man.

We've just been rocking with it. And I feel like that's been my, if I lose that, that's my mojo gun. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. I haven't looked into the whole style as a whole. It's just how we rock things, bro. Do you view it as like a little bit of an indicator of you being proud of being from up north? Because it's kind of more of a signature haircut.

You could say that because, and I never thought of it that way either. But you could obviously tell, you know what I mean. But then again, I don't know, you just mentioned some names from people down here have it. So maybe it's not so true no more. Right. Okay. I saw something pretty fucked up from my perspective, but I just got to mention it. Is that I saw a photo of a rapper who made a shirt.

I don't know if you know where I'm going with us but it said on the shirt, all my ops are dead and one of the photos was of wooded. That to me struck me as like extremely disrespectful. How do you view that type? It's a new YouTube generation, you know what I mean? Like

now if you were responsible for those deaths, I can see you making a statement. I see, hey, you know, I'm trying to look for it. I'm trying to look for cloud off of it. It was what I'm seeing off of it. You know what I'm saying? So if it's If it's not someone that's in our direct line of fire, like if this is people that we have,

we're in arms reach and we're right here in the same section, and maybe they are, I don't know, I don't even know who they are, to be honest to. I just seen people send that to me. To me, that's a new way of internet trolling. I'm not, I'm used to that. You would, common disrespectful stuff on our stuff, people, I've seen Photoshop stuff, so to me it's just a new way of doing it. Of course, it's disrespectful.

You know, I believe in bad energy attracts bad energy, you know. But I'm not going to comment too much on that, you know. Yeah, it was cute, you know what I'm saying? It's just like a different version of disrespect that the younger generation has kind of cooked up. And it's sort of bizarre to see them like reaching back into like prior generations to deceased legends, you know? I mean, it's a YouTube generation. Right. Let me show you what I'm doing so I can run it up.

I'm sure it might have benefited them nice on some views and some controversy. You know what I'm saying? definitely um okay i seen you doing the podcast thing and getting more into the overall media space where did the desire to do that come from it kind of goes back to where i would have these talks with my young homies and uh yes and peace to my brother laced but he would call me coach tone here he goes on his shit man because i would try to get like bro come on like some homies don't have it instilled in them where they don't want to get them money whatever i'd always be speaking like that so i started doing that on my social media.

We always use the voice, whether it's the music, through content. And now that we started doing the podcast, me and my brother AWACs right here, man, we started doing it. And we're trying, I think you mentioned this on your show with Rico. We don't have too many platforms up north that helps put our people on, you know what I'm saying? And just our people as a whole, anything up north. We have Thizzler, we have Shimo.

We have very select few that do that. I'm like, why don't we just try to build this platform? You had to start somewhere, right? Right. How many subscribers did you, when you started, how many subscribers did you start with? I mean, I already had something going on in the BMX world, so I had a little bit of a platform where I knew if I started fucking with these underground rappers that I'd have some people watching. But, I mean, my earliest interviews definitely had like a thousand views, a couple thousand views. Yeah, we just launched it.

We just started. I think we're like, we just barely launched our page. We just monetized, what, like a week ago? We just barely started. You know what I mean? We have done a few, but as far as like, really putting a podcast on the page, we just started. And the same thing. We already have people paying attention.

We already got somewhat of a thing going. Let's utilize this, build a platform. We have a lot of respect in our community with our people who's better to do it than us. You know what I'm saying? Right. Besides the game podcast, tune in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, who's the best guests from your perspective that you've had?

And do you prefer to have conversations with people like outside of your usual circle? Or do you enjoy doing the sort of like boss talk with somebody like Rico who's, you know, doing stuff that you've done? You guys are both like part of the same lineage in a way. Yeah. So we're trying to build with our foundation of. I'm working with people that's comfortable that I know off top. We have to build somewhere. That's our foundation.

This build with the people we already work with, we know. We're already well acquainted with these individuals. And just me and me and Wax sit there and talk, me and him bounce game off each other so much that we kind of create our own. Sometimes we don't need a guess, but it's like, let's involve new people. So I can't even say a favor.

We only have, how many guests we have so far, brody? Like three, four? Yeah, like shit. Yeah, I've had, we did, we just, GB. We just did an interview with GB. B he's about to drop. My boy, Jack Money P, he about to drop. We did Rico.

I'm drawing a fucking blank. I don't know why. We did the way of Lazy boys. The first one of RICO and why am I drawing a fucking blank, bro? And D. Sanchez-Nettles, yeah. My boy, D. Sanato, shout out my brother D. Yeah. Yeah, from your perspective, what does Northern California need to keep growing and succeed?

Like I said in that interview that it would be great if the North had 10 fizzlers, which when I think about it, that is kind of like, a lofty goal because it's like there's only going to be as many media platforms as there are things to cover. You know? So it's like if there was a thousand rappers popping off from Northern California, maybe there would be

10 Thizzlers like, but from your perspective what holds Northern California back? And just my opinion, I feel like artists need to step their life up before the music. People are trying to like you said use the beef in and the shit as a as a crutch, you know what I'm saying? People

in my opinion, respect success. So when you mention other artists that elevated, they started with that, and as they evolved and became bosses, and they built their life up, people follow them more. If you're just depending solely on the, on drill shit, and it's going to cap out, you know what I mean? So I think that's

the mentality of us, just keeps showing how tough we are. And I'm not saying just Northern Cali, just in the youngsters in rap, you know what I'm saying? Now in Northern California, man, what would be your opinion? Let me ask you that. What is holding Northern California back from what we've taken off. I mean, I feel like LA is going through a lot of the same problems,

honestly, is that just like it's a very regional sound. Some of the beats and stuff don't necessarily translate so well to the rest of the country, but there's like, there's scenes all over the country that have that problem. If I were to play you a bunch of Bronx drill right now, you might be like, yeah, that's cool. That's dope. They're doing their thing. But like sonically, I'm pretty sure that your ears would reject it. Yeah. Because you've been, you know, brought up in a different culture and like a different style of production and stuff makes sense to you a different flow makes sense to you and i feel like that's kind of the unfortunate part about where rap is at even though it is good as well is that the it's just so regional at this point but like we do a ton of chicago content

when you really look at the last 10 14 etc years of chicago drill music how many people can we look at as like real superstars that emerged from that to me it's basically three people it's like Chief Keith, King Vaughan, and Lil Dark. So that's like the arguably the biggest scene in America in terms of hip hop over the last 10 years. And you can only think of three people who really like emerged to be like big ass stars. And I feel like that's really what Northern California needs. It's just more dudes who kind of like emerge as huge stars to the point where then the fans want to figure out everybody else adjacent to them. To be honest, I feel like EBK J-Boh has the most potential right now to be somebody.

To me, he's like the chief keef of Northern California. And granted, a lot of that is because he's talking about some extremely real shit. And the fact that Stockton is a fucking war zone right now is a big part of it. But like musically, from my perspective, he's got what it takes. He needs to keep his ass out of jail. I feel that. But tell me this, you've been around long enough. How many times have this circulated we've seen Bronx have this time in the beginning?

You've seen New York. Go back to like Biggie and all that time, right? We've seen Atlanta, Little John, throwing elbows. We've seen L.A., Snoop Dog, Dr. Drake, Ice Cube. We've seen the Bay Area, the E-40s, and the Andre Nicotine's, and the people pay too short. You know what I'm saying? It's been circulating comes full circle.

So I ain't a lie. I think it is going to come back eventually in Northern California. It may not be one. It may be, it may not be, but there's going to be somebody from Northern California that pops is going to be the next one up. It just comes full circle. We've seen all those areas. Right now it is Chicago, Detroit, very hot music scene.

but like I said you've been around a long time how many times have you seen it come for just go around from different regions right each region has their time where they're like on fire you know what I'm saying and even like just in terms of there being like big Mexican rappers

yeah we're still kind of it feels like in the early stages of that because I think Texas got looking at Texas what I'm saying I feel like OTA that Mexican OT is like emerging as like a massive star on a level that we maybe haven't even seen before yeah and there's like a lot of other like really good

indicators that that's like that the Mexican community is kind of like finding their voice and their identity to the music more than we've seen before for sure no for sure I think I think I think they got a good thing going in Texas right now man and and bros kicked open some doors I when I seen him sitting on Joe Rogan you know that that was a huge like oh shit that's a milestone but he has the personality to support that which is very fucking rare but that's everything you can't just be a rapper you got to have the whole image you have to have everything it's been like that and who cares about just a rap like back in the day when all you heard with

was just a voice and you didn't know the image, it was different. Now people have to like you more than the actual rap. And if they like you and you could, you got talent, that's how you win. You know what I'm saying? That's where people solely depend on. They're just in the studio, but they don't focus on anything outside of that. Focus on your image. That's why I was going back.

Boss your life. People got to see something. And if you ain't on that level, be a personality that people love. You know what I'm saying? Something like that. Do you think that the North-South divide holds California as a whole back? Not really. Not really.

That's just a small. there's billions of people in the world, brother. You know what I'm saying? That's just a small section of people. You know, we only got to... California is a small section compared to the world. You know, a lot of these big artists you mentioned, they're capitalizing on millions and millions and millions of streams.

Only a small section that is California. Now, mind you, it does transpire into different states. There is this stuff. Like, you know, we just went to Washington and that shit was active as fuck. I'm like, man, Washington was going crazy. You know, it does transpire into other states, but still at the end of the day, there's a small percent of people. So if you could hold your own, you don't need the support from here or there or the hate.

You know, you don't need that if you could just become a big artist. You know, because every artist that blows up has ops. Name one artist that doesn't have opposition. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. No, totally. Yeah.

I mean, like, you know, it didn't hold back all those rappers from Chicago that I just named that there's like, you know, many, many hoods out there that have, like, crazy, intense rivalries with them. It's all just about being smart and moving the right way. I think it's also about like embracing the talent early on because even just like when we're just talking about Stockton I mean like there's multiple rappers from out there and shit who realistically could have been huge brisk could have been fucking huge stockton's gangland yeah I think bris is sacked though yeah he's from sack but he was like super tapped in with the whole eBK and then like you said you mentioned mozzi and you got you know CML you know you got two different spectrums right there you know what I mean both respected individuals but who you rocking with I don't involve myself sacramed man on politics I'm not from out there but I'm not from out there but I'm not from out there but I'm not I'm out there but I'm not I'm out there but I'm not I'm not. I know people that do. Like, people are like, you can get smoked for bumping the wrong dude in Sacramento. Right. But would you be, you'd have to be cautious about who you'd even do a song with from out there?

Because as soon as you choose a side. You're going to hurt somebody's feelings regardless. If I do a song with this person, I might hurt this person's feelings. Now, if there's somebody I fuck with that's close to me, I'll choose the people I fuck with. Even if I don't have personal issues with them, I won't disrespect my people by doing that. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it's always like that. Rap beef politics is always, it's a chess game, bro.

Definitely. It feels like for a lot of people it's probably advantageous to just not affiliate yourself, but that's got to be tough too. You want to make music with the people you like, and it's going to be tough to... I think it's actually easy if you can hold your own weight. Like I said, I don't need to be the big rap star. My catalog does really well for myself. My businesses do well for myself.

I don't really need to ride this rapper's coat tail. I need to do that. So if you build yourself up enough, you don't need to do that. You can just hold your own weight, you know what I'm saying? 100%. So what else you got going on? What are your focuses at this point in your life, business-wise, family-wise, etc? I mean, there's always the hunt to grow, you know.

You know, still I think all of us try to figure it out. Like, yes, I'm very content with what we've done. And I'm still trying to figure it out, man, what's the next move? You know, we've done good. Supporting the family. We're making money. We're doing well. What's next type of stuff?

You know what I'm saying? I keep dabbling different investments. I win some, lose some. And right now I'm trying to. trying to figure out what's the next thing. Like, I don't know if you ever feel that way. You've been doing this podcast thing for a long time. Like, are you very just content?

This is all I want to do in retire or is there something else? You know what I mean? I'm the same thing. Do I want to just kick back and chill or do I want to figure it out? Right. I'm kind of in that, like, hey, trying to figure out what I want to do next type of stuff. I'll have weeks where, you know, I do 10 podcasts in a week. And then at the end of the week, I'm just forced to, like, think about the fact that,

yeah, you were grinding, like, working the business that you've created for yourself, but you didn't even have 10 minutes to think about what the, future might be. And that could be really hard. It's like to balance this like machine that you have going right now while also thinking about what might be coming down the pipe. Like for instance, I didn't see the TikTok shit happening. You know, I was a late arrival to realizing that this app was going to have a huge impact. And if I hadn't had anything going on, like I always look at TikTok and just think if I had nothing going on when TikTok came out, if I wasn't already a YouTuber, I would have been the motherfucking TikToker of the, you know, I would have been going so hard on TikTok.

going back to catching early. But I didn't because I already had the YouTube thing going. And from my perspective, it's like, well, I'm making actual money on YouTube. I'm not going to go TikTok for free. Which, granted, like, even if you are super successful on TikTok, you're damn near TikTok and for free because that money fucking sucks. But YouTube was the same way. YouTube back in the day, they were still our music put on YouTube.

I'd be hot. Who put our music on YouTube? I'd be pissed off. Now we're like, cool, monetizing all that shit. You know what I'm saying? That's one of my biggest regrets is that I used to make something, the videos that were kind of like vlogs in, like, 2006, and then we didn't stick with it. I didn't see any money off it.

I didn't really understand that you could really build an identity for yourself on the platform. And if I had got that earlier, it would have been crazy. See, somebody like we got in our area, we got like Empire Records, my brother Ghazi. He's seen that vision before anybody. You know, he was like, hey, man, I'm doing this distribution company. I'm like, so you're doing CDs? He's like, man, fuck CDs, MP3s. I'm like, people are still burning from Napster and stuff like that.

And he's seen that vision 10 steps ahead, man. And, you know, catching that wave early is how you win, man. And now what is it? next wave. We don't know what's going to be, but if you could think 10 steps ahead, that's where it's going to be, man. You know what I'm saying? Facts. Yeah, brother. All right, anything that you want the people to keep an eye out for? Man, just, just, I mean, we still just dropping, bro. I do got a new project, new album, man.

And at this point, man, I'm still dropping. We still get a lot of love. I'm just, man, like, I'm going to keep dropping until it's like, bro, that's it's done. But I put a lot of, you know, I stick to the script, man. We got a lot of love and support um doing the podcast game me and awash two sides of the game man and um i'm trying to transfer into that um i just got into the to the acting thing i did my first movie i'm in splash city that's coming out i believe in november man i got a good partner and shout out to four ways entertainment and burner for getting my my opportunity for that um so um i might try to venture into that avenue you know what i mean i do have another role in another movie that i just

got a script for so that's going to be kind of cool to to um you know to play that see how that plays out. And then other than that, bro, just working, man, doing the same shit, trying to figure out the next business move. Just keep evolving. You know what I'm saying? Find the next play to chase after, you know? For sure. Much respect. You've been doing for a long time, but you definitely seem like you always kept it solid and you're a good inspiration for the up-and-coming Northern California generation. Thank you for having me, man. This is big. It's big for our people. You know, you're doing a lot for us. So I want to say, appreciate you. And hats off for having us here, brother. You know what I'm saying? Amen. I appreciate you.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Big tone. My guy. No jumper. this podcast in the world. Check us on YouTube, TikTok, Patreon, Instagram, like, comment, subscribe. We out. Appreciate you, man. Hell yeah. I appreciate you, man.