No Jumper - Casey Neistat on His New Life in LA, Changes at Youtube & More

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

Legendary Casey Neistat finally made his way to the No Jumper podcast to talk about his business moves, work ethic, fatherhood, vlogging, and more! ----- FOLLOW OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST! https://open.spotify.com/playlist/529mn7of2HBKdLfrAMUzcK?si=rWVBWCuWSXeh0TFYb2P-dQ CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz Follow us on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nojumper iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 Follow us on Social Media: http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/No-Jumper-198283650194402/ http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm follow Adam22 as well: http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 and follow adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world. I'm in here with the one and only, Casey Nystatt. How are you living, man? Good. Good to be here. This is probably one of the only times you ever did a podcast where you're, like, meeting the podcast for the first time, approximately at the same time they're doing the podcast? I feel like you reached out to me well over a year ago.

Huge fan. And there had just been a text back and forth about making it happen. And here we are. It's great to have it published us because you can kind of throw it on them and just assume that they'll be the... egregious, annoying person that you don't want to be and be able to sort of keep reaching out. Yeah. Yeah, I find it really easy to ignore, you know, if it's like an assistant or like, hey, I'm reaching out on behalf of. But then when like, when like you text me, I'm like, oh shit, yeah,

I definitely want to do that. See, when I get hit up by the assistant, there's a part of me that almost I think is more likely to respond because I really have so much respect for the working man. Yeah, I mean, look, I spent much of my life as an assistant. Um, and, I think that that's very honorable of you. But yeah, I try to ignore as many emails as I can. Whenever I say somebody being rude to like a waiter or, you know, anyone who just is at the entry level point in their life, like that just doesn't make sense to me.

Like how can you be a dick to the waiter? Don't you see how shitty it is to be a waiter? I have a rule in life, which is that I would never date a girl and never hire an employee who hadn't been like a waiter or a waitress, who hadn't worked in a restaurant. Okay. So I think until you've had that, until you've dealt with that,

you don't know what life is. And there's a lot of nuance there, but it just means like being shit on by other people and having to just take it is one of the most important things to learn in life. See, I feel like I've missed a lot of that. You know, I had those entry-level jobs at the supermarket and, you know, the old folks home

and the paper route, all and that kind of stuff. But I never had that real, like, camaraderie. Like I remember when I got really into watching the office. I think a big part of it was because it was so foreign to me because I had never been in that like normal working environment. Yeah. And there's something definitely unique about restaurants. Like my dad was a restaurant supply salesman. So we'd sell like used refrigerators to restaurants. So I grew up in restaurants and my first job. I guess my first job was like selling dime bags in the parking lot of my high school. My second job. So got something. Not today. No, okay. But what you need? That's crazy to think, though, that now it's legal. Now you can do that legally. But my second job was washing dishes. And like, you get shit on by the cooks, by the managers, by the owner, and then by the wait staff. Right.

And you just, like, that's where you, like, you get hard in the back of a kitchen. And you think your success will always feel a bit more satisfactory because you endured all that? Yeah, I also think it just, it teaches you that respect. You know, like I made my kid get really shitty jobs, my grown sons. son now when he was young because like you don't understand how it is until you've been there. And like waiting tables, like my wife now and she has two successful businesses that she runs, but she was like a waitress. And she was a, she was a bartender. And she's like, I learned everything I need to know about men by being a bartender. Wow. And that's like a powerful thing. Like to hear

that from her and I've heard that from her for the 10 years that I've known her. It's like it's a fast education. Yeah. Because I mean if you've lived your life and only, you know, if you've met, 100,000 people and dealt with 100,000 people instead of having dealt with 100 people. You know, a lot of people who are very naive and I'm sure and don't have a lot of life experience. Really, the problem is that they just haven't had enough interaction with people. And once you've dealt, if you're in that position where you're dealing with dozens and dozens of weird fucking potentially drunk people every day, then you're going to sort of fast forward your way into knowing or being street smart enough to like be able to read people

a bit better than the average person. Yeah. I mean, I remember when I first moved to New York City and I was like 20 years old, dirt poor, dirt poor. I'm making $10 an hour living in Manhattan. It's brutal. Actually impossible now, I would assume. It was impossible then. But I would get invited to these, like, fancy parties. And I wasn't invited.

My boss was. And I would just go because I would manage his schedule as an assistant. Right. So I'd go to these fancy parties. I had no business going to, and I made friends with, like, a lot of rich kids. And I used to kind of envy them when I was dirt poor because they had all kinds of fun resources.

And I now realize that like what a sheltered life being like a rich kid of real privilege is. Right. All these hardships we're talking about like all this valuable like life knowledge you get by struggling. They skipped all that. And how are you supposed to survive if you don't know that stuff? If you haven't experienced that. Yeah. You haven't had to fight.

And out here you meet so many people that are like they walk around in nice clothes and they got nice cars and stuff. But it's like you can see through them that there's no there was no real work together. get there and that is the real like determining factor in me just not fucking with them like I just don't like your vibe I could tell you never had to work for anything and that you don't really appreciate a dollar and that just doesn't vibe right with me yeah no I feel it it's it's it's unique in Los Angeles or maybe it's unique in New York City but it's very different in Los Angeles I just moved here after 18 years in New York City right New York City's is great equalizer yeah because whether you're like a fucking billionaire head fund guy or you're

you are like a, someone who doesn't even have a place to sleep. You got to walk down the same fucked up sidewalks. You gotta take that same shitty, sweaty subway. You gotta get in that same stinky taxi cab. Like, it is this equalizer. Yeah. But here in Los Angeles, it's like, no, you can like get into your Bentley. You can like leave your gate to go into the street and your gated community and you can drive to where you want to be.

You can isolate yourself from the kinds of the realities of this city. Yeah. And that's new for me because New York City doesn't give a fuck who you are where you came. From. Once you get used to it out here, you'll start to feel like, why would I ever have subjected myself to being surrounded by all these psychopaths on such a regular basis? Why did I cram myself into the shoebox of people for all those years? I feel like you've had that realization I've seen in your vlogs where you're just sort of

like moving to California has been very much you deciding that there's more to life than work. Yeah. It's like a symbolic representation of you deciding this is going to be a new chapter in my life where I'm going to maybe emphasize my family more than the grind. Yeah, you know, in the video that I made that was me leaving New York City, I talked about that. You know, because I love that city. I'll always love that city.

But like in your whole life, you've never heard anyone say, you know, like, I want to slow down and relax in life. So I'm moving to downtown Manhattan. Like, it doesn't happen. And it's impossible to do that there. Yeah. So moving was a big part of that for me. And I have to say, like, I'm working hard to no longer, like, compare New York to L.A. That's a very toxic behavior.

But Los Angeles, like, this is an incredible, like, vibrant city with a million different communities and, like, all kinds of different people from different walks of life. But you can very much so, like, live your own life here in a way that you can't in Manhattan for those same reasons. That equalizer that is that city. There's no avoiding that. There's no choosing not to participate in that. Is your fame less oppressive here, or is it more emphasized? It's just, it's different. But the thing about New York City that was really special was like, you know, I had like a real ownership of that city and that city had kind of an ownership of me because the city was the main character in every video I made.

Right. So when I'd ride around on my skateboard in Manhattan, it was like, yo, Casey was up. But at a certain point when you've been doing that for a few years, it starts to become this fucking freak show thing where you're like the naked cowboy. Everybody knows that you're going to be doing this all the time and everyone is so familiar with it that it must have been fucking weird, right? Weird, yeah. Weird and at times really scary. Yeah. But it was, there was this kinship. Like New Yorkers were like, we recognize you, we appreciate you, and we say what's up.

Right. And out here, it's much more like, it's like transactional. Like, oh, my, I was in Starbucks before I walked up here and it was like, oh, my God, I love your videos. Can I have a selfie? And that's nice. I love that. I never shake my head at that. Right.

But just someone saying, what's up and like shaking your hand or like waving at you or nodding at you. Yeah. It means that like, hey, we're the same. And I love that because like my least favorite part about You know YouTube fame or not a writer or anything is when people maybe think I'm different Or treat me different like it makes me very uncomfortable It's like it's like come on I used to love to film videos where I would go out into the crowded concerts and just have these ridiculous

conversations with all the fans and stuff and then it's like at a certain point like I went to do that and I'm like Oh that that is never gonna happen again apparently because now when I walk out there it's all selfie requests And when I actually start talking to people they're so fun fucking stunned that, you know, I'm just not getting anything good out of them because they're acting like I'm famous and it's, it fucked up that whole dynamic. And now it's like, I have to have one of my employees like go and do that if we want to do that. And that has been such a strange thing. It's like, I'm having, you know, I guess what I always wanted in a sense, which is to be fucking known for my work. And then that sort of made it so that a huge percentage

of my interactions are maybe less meaningful than they ever could have been before. It's a, it's a strange thing. I think one of the hardest parts about it, is that there's no one you can talk to about it. There's no one who, like, there's no one who empathizes. Like, I know, you know a lot of people. I know a lot of people who have this similar kind of fame. But the rest of the world doesn't. They have no idea.

And it's not about sympathy. It's not about feel bad for us because we're famous. Like, it can be further from that. It's just about that kind of understanding. Like, it's hard to sort of find your, you know, your humanity. You try to imagine what it's like for Justin Bieber, what it's like for any of these stars that became celebrities before they got to be adults. Yeah.

How the fuck are you supposed to deal with that? I was supposed to figure out the world when you've never, like, we were having this conversation about juice world to just pass, rest and peace. But that was what I was saying is like, he never got to be a kid. He transitioned right from, like, high schooler to world famous dude who can't go to the mall. And that is such a strange transition. I wish that he had a couple of years where he could have been a struggling musician or he could have been a dude who hung out at the bar or like went to parties or had a regular job or something like that.

That would have really helped prepare. And more for how fucking insane the ride was going to be. But I mean, his music was so good that there was no chance that these record labels were going to ignore him for a couple years while he grinded away, you know? Of course, of course. You know, I was like hustling in the film world, like with some degree of success for like 12, 15 years kind of thing before I found that... Incrementally building something. Yeah, but it's like, you know, you get a movie into Sundance Film Festival. It's a huge deal, but you're hundreds of people know about it versus having a viral YouTube video.

or having a channel with a bunch of subscribers were millions of people. And even I, I was like in my 30s when I found that YouTube fame, it's still like, you know, it pulled the rug out from under me. It knocked me down. I didn't know how to deal with it. It caught me off guard. And I like, I often think, like, how do these young kids deal with it? You know, like David Dobrick's a friend of mine.

He's, you know, he's 22 now, 23. And he found fame when he was 20. And he's like, he's super smart and mature and all. And he handles it as best as anyone can handle it. That's the thing that fucks me of is how do you have? was how do you have such a good head in your shoulders? Because I know that if I got rich or famous at 19 and 20, I don't know what the fuck I would have been doing,

but I doubt I would have had a good head on my shoulders with it, you know? Well, I think that's what, I think that's what sort of separates the, you know, like I think we and I've both seen a number of creators, like young creators, just not be able to handle it. And they fade away, they disappear, they do something really stupid. I mean, like, Logan Paul, we both know Logan. And, like, I think that I never make excuses for the bullshit that he did. but like when he says like look I'm a 20 however old he was when he that when things went down with the suicide force he's like look I'm a kid I didn't know how to deal with all this stuff and it's mostly like fuck you like assume your responsibility and deal with it but there's also a part of it that's like to get caught up in that when I was 20 years old trying to deal with the amount of success and fame that these young creators have yeah it says a lot about the fact that logo just didn't have anybody around that saw reason to question that because it's like you need some fucking haters on your team ideally to to tell you

you when the idea that you're cooking up is not such a great idea. I would hope that, you know, I would have people on my team to tell me that once I filmed the dead body, maybe don't put the dead body in the vlog. It's probably not a great idea. But it's like, um, maybe it added out the clip of you laughing. Who is the who is the king in, uh, Game of Thrones that everybody hated? Joffrey. I loved him. He's been my favorite character. He used to always tell my girlfriend that he was my favorite character because it made her so mad. Um, he's the actor is so good too. But there's a little bit of that. Like when you get really successful, when you're like, when you find that success, nobody wants to tell you no. Nobody wants to, nobody wants you to dislike them. You're,

you're the fucking king. Right. You're the boss. Yeah, you're cutting the checks. And on top of that, when you got fame and success, despite everyone telling you know, you get this like hero complex. So I think it makes it really hard to get really smart advice that is critical. Yeah. And when I think about young people, you know, in particular, like when I think about teenage boys, they always want to push against the edges and the limits of what's the most offensive thing they can get away with. And you see that in YouTubers too, big time, because once they get that sort of position of fame and they realize like, oh, it feels like I can get away with whatever. It's like, oh, let's keep kind of pushing this. Let's see how far I have to take it before people really try

to cancel me. Yeah. And I think that's just like a hunger and appetite. for for more and more right you know literally likes but I think figuratively it's like attention attention attention yeah and the race for sensationalism you know is is what fuels so much of attention on youtube yeah you see the changes they made they announced this morning I did they pulled down like some of Idubs videos and do you think this is scary I mean I don't know if I'd use the word scary I think I I can empathize it doesn't mean I agree but I empathize with YouTube. And I get shit for that. I get shit for that because I publicly empathize. What the fuck are they supposed to do? Is it supposed to be? Should they make it a free for all on their site?

And I'm not saying they shouldn't, but I don't ask that rhetorically. I mean it. Should it be like the U.S. Constitution where it's freedom of speech, say whatever you want? And then you could have really dangerous people on their proliferating. So they try to put rules. And these rules like some of them, I think are wildly misguided. Yeah. Especially if you've got people like creators like Idub having to take down his videos because they're interpreted as bullying. But think about YouTube a few years ago when Leifie was reigning supreme and stuff. I don't remember those days. It's not like there were no heroes because that was also kind of the height of your whole

shit too. It was like when you were really going viral was sort of that time period. And Leafy was such a toxic negative presence on YouTube. It's like when we look at his channel now, it's hard to imagine YouTube allowing that and promoting that the way that they used to. I mean, I can't help but think that. YouTube is a better environment. Now, yes, we're more scared of the demonetization and everything like that.

But, I mean, there's a lot of really craven shit that was being allowed to proliferate. And now when I log into my TV and I see all those icons and it's like Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, YouTube. And then YouTube is the only one where there's like some consideration that maybe we should let Nazis just have programs on there. And that it's so strange now because YouTube was always like that was that fundamental. internet was all about the idea that this is a free for all place where anything could be allowed to be developed and now we're at a point where that seems kind of crazy because if you allow YouTube to be a free for all then you're going to have the most heinous content imaginable start popping up it's going to succeed it's going to succeed because like you and I would

much like when we drive by a car accident we look right like you slow down you get a good look Like us weekly still sells more copies than like the fucking Bible or whatever like smart educational helpful content that's out there like as human beings were kind of attracted to like the lowest common denominator. You just want to see it. So when you have a system like YouTube like that's a place where this kinds of content can succeed. So I do like agree with YouTube that they need to make changes as they grow. But when you get into the nuance, when you get into the specifics of it, you look at the minutia of how they're implementing those changes. is some of it makes you want to scratch your head, even though, you know, I may appreciate the broader intention behind it.

But the bigger question I have is like, where do they go? They're just going to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. How are they possibly going to enforce the kinds of rules and laws they're putting out there? How are they going to keep up with the growth of the platform and keep it a healthy place? The implication in the rules that they change today and the thing that I feel like they're trying to stomp out is you shouldn't be able to make a YouTube video. apparently where you basically are just like look at this look at this woman I hate her she's fat she's disgusting you know to really criticize somebody's physical appearance is like the main thing that i felt they were getting at with those new changes and stuff and i get that because that is the kind of thing

that would have easily rocked on youtube in the era of leafy and now feels much much more inappropriate that like youtube can't just allow channels to just attack people in the way that might have been normal in 2015 Especially when those attacks are about people's physical appearance or sexual orientation or whether someone's gay or trans or whatever it might be. It makes it. You read what their intention. You read their tweet and you're like, yeah, that's a great thing. Right. But then when you start to see what it actually translates to in the shades of gray, there's no black and white.

It's not a binary. It's all like judgment calls. Right. There's no judge jury or trial that actually takes place. It's moderators and things like that. that's where like my head just I just start scratching my head it doesn't make sense how are they possibly supposed to keep up with the amount of content that's flooding that platform yeah it makes me wonder if like the the video that I saw somebody posts where they're like tearing apart Lily Singh's new show I'm like well is

that right I don't know if there were any sort of physical attacks on her in that video but it's like I'm very very much in favor of that content being able to stay online as long as it's it's critical of her ideas or her actions but as soon as it starts to go into you know anything like and you know And, you know, I get the intent of the rules because it's like if that video were to seem cruel to me, then I might also find it to be the kind of content that shouldn't be on the platform. But it is a very, very thin line. Sure. But then look, if you're critical of one person's show, then does that mean that, like, movie reviewers shouldn't be allowed on there?

And this is what I mean by the nuance. It's like there's such a spectrum. How are you supposed to enforce that? Yeah. Like no swastikas, that's black or white. Great rule. I hope that's a rule. Is that a rule?

I don't think it is a rule. I would think. If it were a rule, great rule. Yeah, but what if you're making a documentary about the horrors of World War II? Now we're getting into the nuance. It's like, this is just how hard it is to enforce it. No using the N-word. You use that horrible word in any capacity.

You should be kicked off the platform. Sure. What about in historical sentences? What about the fact that, you know, Quentin Tarantino's, what was that, Jingo Enchained? Great movie. Right, that is so weird to think that, like, scenes from movies where the N-word was used heavily is the kind of stuff that definitely probably wouldn't rock on YouTube

in this day age if if quentin tarenta was allowed to put that in 2,500 movie theaters and you're able to download that off of google play but if it's some kid in his basement screaming the end word of the camera that's gone for sure but now we're like we're getting into this wild spectrum and how does this how is this enforceable and we hear about it on twitch too then i'm pretty sure there's a whole bunch of creators who've been banned from twitch like black people for saying the n word is that right yeah is that right my co-host on this podcast little house phone was banned from twitter a black man for Just saying the N-word. From Twitter.

He was saying with the hard R and he was making some weird joke that I actually really don't blame the algorithm for detecting as hate speech. But, you know, he lost all the work that he ever put into his Twitter account. Yeah. Because as a black guy, he said,

the N-Ward. Did you go to the... Did you go to the Logan fight? I did. I listened to KSI on your show. I thought he was great. Great guy. So funny. But as I was listening to that,

I remember running into... KSI. I know Logan. I know loan Logan for years. I like Logan. But I met KSI the summer before his first fight. Right. With Logan. And I met him in Dubai. We're both speaking at the same event. I was, you know, the guy's about my size. And I remember going to be like, dude, how are you going to do this Logan fight?

Like how, Logan's a fucking monster. Anybody who's ever met Logan, he is like an imposing physical human being. Not someone that 99% of people would want to throw hands with you. No. No. And I just remember JJ looking at me and he's like, I can't lose. I can't, not listen like, I'm unbeat, I'm unloosable. It was just like, I will not let myself lose. And this is the first time I ever met him in person.

And like he said it to me with this like penetrating like look. And I was like, wow, fuck, great. Hell yeah. Let's do it. And then to see him this year with that fight, he was the better fighter. Yeah. He was the better fighter. I was sitting right there.

He was unbelievable what he brought in that ring. Yeah. Like a kind of conviction that to. just blew my mind. Does that excite you about YouTube? I don't know. I appreciated the theater of it. I mean, I think, look, both JJ and Logan are fantastic performers, and if they weren't,

they wouldn't amass the audiences that they've amassed. And I think if they hadn't taken it serious, they hadn't taken it seriously, it would not have worked. But because they both really approached that, the way that a pro fighter would approach that, they showed that they had a respect for what was taking place. And that translated as a respect for the audience. Yeah, because we've seen all kinds of stupid celebrity boxing type things over the years. Goofy things. Yeah, and it doesn't really do much to help those people's career.

I think in this case, they did. They took it so seriously that it ended up being a good look for YouTubers, for themselves, for boxing, et cetera. It was overall a good show. I like the sportsmanship of it. And, no, I appreciated the whole thing. I don't know what, I don't know if that's scalable. Like, do we want to see YouTubers line up to fight? I think that.

I kind of do. I'm going to be honest with you. Yeah. But I want to see it go like the Fusi fight. You see that? That was a disaster. No, look, I know Yousef, and he's not a bad guy. He's got a lot of problems.

I like him now, yeah. But it pained me to see him get the shit beat out of him like that. I mean, I've been fighting my whole life. I'm a big fighter. In the streets? No, no, just trained. You haven't had that street fighting years. When was the last one?

Let's hear that story. I'll tell you that story. Although my wife, last time I told this, it was defending Candice. Last time I told this, Candace said that I'm, I now glorify. and it wasn't that dramatic. So I'll give it that caveat. Okay. But we're in Manhattan.

Candace and I were dating and we got into a big fight. On the street, we're having this argument. And this dude comes up, and he's kind of a big dude. And like in New York City, like, there's sort of a scam that people do where they, like, support my basketball team, buy some candy. And it's like a fucking 25-year-old guy. Oh, my God.

You know, and it's not a kid. And he comes up and I was like, nah, we're in the middle of the fight. And I'm like, my wife, my girlfriend at the time, we're in the middle of an argument. She's like, nah. And then he keeps pushing. I'm like, dude, can you see we're having a conversation? Please give us some space. And he wouldn't back off.

And he does it again. And he's like, back on. And he's like, I'm talking to her, not you. And I mean, you don't need to know Candace to know that like, you don't fuck with her. She's like a vicious Jewish South African princess. Like, you don't fuck. She's vicious. And she's like all 103 pounds of her turn to this guy.

And she's like, I don't want your fucking candy. And he flipped out. And he's saying things to her that like you just don't say to a woman. woman. And you know like my values in life is like I'm against physical confrontation in every scenario but three when you have to defend yourself. You don't take a beating you fight back. For me it blacks out and it just it just happens. You have to defend yourself. There's no decision made when but in retrospect you're looking back at any physical altercation if it falls in one of these three categories it means it was unavoidable. Number two is if you have to protect somebody who can't

protect themselves you know what I mean? Very true. You see see somebody small is getting bullied or beat up by someone bigger, you got to step in. You have to help that individual. And then the third one is, I think that you have to sort of protect the honor of a woman. Yeah, yeah. You can't have a woman, like let things like that be said to a woman, especially someone you care about. Yeah. In any event, no. And then the guy and I, we just had hands right there on Broadway. Broadway and Houston. Wow. Right in the street. Yeah. Broadway and House, I know exactly where that is. That's a great location. Yeah. I think, I, I think someone may have yelled World Star. Oh my God. See, that meme has sort of gone away a little bit with... Am I dating myself?

No, but people might still do it, but I feel like they don't yell World Star like they used to. People don't seem as excited about watching fights on the internet as they used to be like the idea of just going to Worldstar.com, Worldstar Hipop.com, to watch fights was a very... I don't know if that happens in such great detail these days. It's probably a good thing. The glorification of street fighting is something that's not okay. Yeah. And I think that like if we can make a more gentle world, it's probably a better thing. Definitely.

No, yeah, but it's always a really good feeling when you get to fight someone and you feel like you're really justified in it because they really disrespect it, like somebody you love. And, you know, like, that's the kind of fight that you might see your father having, I feel like. Yeah. I don't know that I ever saw my dad do it. But it's like you would expect your dad to fight in that situation. I never saw my dad. My son, when he was little, like five or six years old, saw me get into a fight.

Somebody robbed us, and I chased him down. And they were like, we got pretty physical. Wow. And, yeah, I think he always sort of looked up at me as like. That's got to seem pretty cool. You as a young kid. Yeah, I remember. I think.

That hurt scared the shit out of him. I was like 24, 25, and my dad, basically, like, I was at home in New Hampshire hanging out with my parents and stuff. And there was a guy that my sister had been dating, and he basically, they had stopped hanging out. And then he snuck into my fucking parents' house and sold $500 in my dad's wallet. So my dad wakes me up at like five in the morning. I'm on hour's sleep and he hands me the keys to his truck.

And he's basically just like, you got to go take care of this. And this is the only time of my life that my dad ever instructed me to commit a violent act. But I'm driving around looking for the kid all day. And then my sister, I got her doing like intelligence research for me. So she's texting the dude and people that know him and stuff trying to figure out where he's out. I figured out he was at this girl's house. So I go there and I just ring the doorbell and I'm like, is this kid here? She's in the girl's like, uh, yeah, like, do you want to come in?

I'm like, no, no, you can send him outside and he walks outside. And I'm like, where's the money? And he wouldn't give it to me. So I just beat the dog shit out of him and broke my fucking hand on his face. And then I found the 500 bucks in his wallet. How long ago was this? That was probably 10 years ago. You know, it's like, I went to high school in the 90s and like fighting was definitely part of the culture then.

Yeah. And it's so not like that now. I think that's a good, like that's such a positive thing. Like to me, when I was in high school, fighting was like part of the day to day. Yeah. Like the school had a policy. It was like not a big deal. Yeah.

Like fights took place in the back parking lot after school like this. There was like a whole thing. Wow. There was a whole system to it. So the teachers were kind of cool with it? They were not cool with it. But it was allowed to take place? You get in a fight now in high school and rightly so.

Police get involved. It's a huge matter. And that's what it should be. Again, society has advanced. It has progressed. We don't give ourselves a lot of credit for the good things. No, and this is a good thing. But when I was in high school in the 90s, it was much more like separate the kids.

You get a, they hear you out. One person usually gets a suspension, whoever the instigator was. The other person gets a detention for engaging. And then that's it. And the school talks about it for like four days. Yeah. You hear these guys up in the fight. And that was sort of it.

I always think about this time that this kid with Down syndrome jumped on my back on the hallway and just beat on me. Like he was trying to kill me. And then his aide ran up and just like separated us. Someone was just like, are you okay? And I was just like, yeah. And then they just left. You can't fault the kid, you know? I'm like, what would it happen to that kid now?

He's probably just excited to see you. I don't know what the fuck it was. He jumped on me like a crazed gorilla and just was pounding on me. I hope you didn't hit back. No, I curled up to a ball. I was 12. Hey, let me ask you this. Go.

Oh, actually, no, I want to confess this. Okay. I got into watching YouTubers as kind of like a hate watcher. There was a couple of things that I really I felt like I got hooked on a lot of people's content. Fusi, I really was not confident in his mental health. I really felt like, you know, he was losing it in his videos and I wanted to watch that take place.

And then I also, I was a beam doubter. I'm going to admit that now. A beam. I just didn't think holding the camera to the chest was really going to work out. I'm sorry. You were right. We didn't succeed. Don't be sorry.

But that's what got me into watching it was that like I really wanted to see how the beam thing was going to play out. I think that, look, I think that's why a lot of people watched it. My motivation for starting the daily vlog was that I was trying to build this company and I knew I needed to, I needed a way to share it, but I was losing my like social influence. Not that I had much then, but I was losing that influence. I was only focused on running this company. So I was like, that's when I made the decision to sort of start a daily vlog and my intention was to have it really be about the company and how you build a company and the growth of it. But it turns out that like four dudes that are computer programmer

sitting in a room with their heads down writing is really uninteresting content. Right. And that's how the vlog manifested into so many different areas of my life and my interests and things like that. But it was like it, the motivation to start that was to have a mouthpiece for what I was trying to build. Yeah. And I think

that like that part worked. That part worked despite my company not you know, like the product not being that good. Like my, the tech company, the product we built just like it was nowhere near as good as Snapchat stories. Right. Snapchat stories was just way fucking better. It's a tough thing you compete with.

Yeah, yeah. And that's what we were going up against. But I think to be able to share the, you know, the entire spectrum of the growth and then like the turns and the struggles and then ultimately like the selling of that company that ultimately like the me leaving that company. Yeah. That arc was like a really interesting time in my life and the fact that that part of my life was shared with so many people I think is how a lot of people who know me or knew me. That's how they'll always know me. Was there a time where you stopped focusing as much on the company and you were just sort of chasing the views and chasing the fame and that you were. Because all of a sudden it becomes that your YouTube stardom is a far more prominent and profitable business than the company that you're trying to start, right?

Yeah, I mean, so it's yes, yeah, no. Like, yes, there was a time when I became way more focused on YouTube than I was focused on my own company. But it wasn't because I was, you know, chasing that view juice or I wanted more fame or money or any of that. it was like it was I think it came from real insecurity oh you know like my co-founder was this like wildly intelligent super competent guy and I got all the attention because I'm the YouTube guy and I'm out there and he's not he's like a quiet heads down let's get it done type of guy but as we started to grow and as we started out of a big team like I didn't know what my role was right I like I don't know how to manage computer programmers these kids are all smarter than me yeah they all know what they're doing I've

never written a fucking line of code in my life right and my my co-founder my partner was like the guy who built Tumblr. Yeah. And so I felt small because of that. And that's when I was like, you know, maybe the best thing I can do for this company is just to put my head down and focus on YouTube. Right. And that's what I did. And that's kind of how I rationalized it.

It was just that like the best thing I can do is stay out of their way. And I think that that sounds like a noble thing. But the reality of it was I was just really insecure. I felt like I was like taking up space rather than really contributing to the effectiveness and the productivity of my own company. Do you feel like you have a healthy relationship? With filmmaking now? Yeah, I mean, I think I'm at a really transitional point in my life, but I think that the daily vlog was wildly unhealthy. Yeah.

Was really unhealthy. Because you have to create a story arc every day in your life, a narrative, and that's the problem for a lot of people. Like, people are always like, why don't you still a daily vlog? It's like, I go to the gym, and then I go sit in my office, and I'm answering a bunch of emails. And like, the only, you know, once in a while I do, I go out and do really fun stuff. And those are the days that we typically might make a vlog. But I mean, it's very hard to create a story. And you end up relying on the people that you deal with every day.

People around you. Your wife, your kids, your fucking people that are right there. And I, you know, I stopped putting my kids in my videos when my daughter was like 11 months old, I think. And she stopped looking like a baby. I got nervous. So I don't put my kids in any social media. So, like, I think that's a smart, responsible thing to do slash it, like, killed so much of my, like, having kids is an endless source of content. And I didn't want to do that.

Right. So I started to lean up my wall. wife a lot. And then like you start to run out of stories to tell you. You start to run out of aspects of your life to share. And then all of a sudden you start to realize like you're truly externalizing every part of you. You know, like you work out a lot. I'm a big runner. And when I run, I'm just thinking about things and getting in my own head and I come up with these ideas. And instead of me like embracing my own ideas and understanding and things, I'm just like, nope, that's a movie. Stop, write it down on my phone, then go and make a YouTube video about it. And when you do that for like 800

videos in a row, you realize that you've like externalized every part of your being, every part of your personality, every aspect of who you are, your entire relationship with your wife, your relationship with every friend that you have. Like every part of my being was externalized. Right. And like, you start to like, who the fuck am I? Yeah. Who am I? And that's a really scary place to get to. When you're answering to other people instead of just yourself. Yeah. Everything has been exposed to them. Everything. Yeah. And, you know, and you. And, you know, You know, I constantly am listening to people like Sam Harris talk about meditation. And myself, I've taken meditation classes and actually felt like I got something out of it,

but there's still that thing that blocks me from doing it consistently. But the biggest thing that someone like you or I is at war with is that if you give me 30 seconds of free airtime in my brain, I'm going to start thinking up concepts for content because it's very beneficial for me to do so. I've trained myself for all these years to do so. And it's just like, that is, if anything, that's the problem is that I fill my life when I was driving here today and I'm listening to a podcast. And if any way, I'm almost trying to prevent myself from my brain just going crazy and cooking up some new ideas. Yeah. That's kind of overwhelming.

Yeah, just talk to Phil DeFranco about it. He's a fantastic guy, fantastic YouTuber. Love, love Phil. Love, Matt, love to Phil. I always say Phil watching my stories. And I'm like, what the fuck are you watching my stories for, Phil? What is that? You don't have enough time for this.

But I was talking to him about that idea And like now I do shit Like I do things where I go out of my way Not to have a phone movie Not to put it on my story Not to film it Because it's forcing myself to do something Just for me

And that's like a weird thing to do Like the idea that as a human being You have to force yourself to do Do actions, activities, behaviors Just for yourself Because your default is to share it your default is to externalize that. Yeah.

And like the fact that that's become the normal and the what's, what's not normal is you doing something for just yourself. Like what a fucked up concept. Yeah, you ever do something real cool? Like, you know, I don't know, hang out with a bunch of people who are also well-known in the internet or you like have a crazy meal or you're going like a little day trip or whatever. Then you realize at the end of it that you were so present that you didn't think to Snapchat

it at all. And that then you get that. little weird pang of like, oh, missed opportunity. I could have been letting everybody know how great my life was today. That is fucked. That is so fucked. And by the way, that I don't think that that's unique to people with big audiences like you. Oh yeah, that's what's funny too.

It's definitely people with a thousand balls to feel the same way. It's that photo that anyone's ever seen of any concert in the last six years where you've got the, you've got the musician, you've got the star center, frame standing on stage and then in the foreground are 10,000 cell phones in the air. It's like, I'm not here to love this music. I'm here to share this. And it's hard to have this discussion without like, okay, boomer, roll your eyes and walk away.

But I think there's realities to this. Yeah. Like, there's value to doing things for just yourself. Yeah. And I think that, like, when you have the opportunity, either share it or do it for just you, because we always lean to share it. I, there was a time a couple of years ago

where the whole message that you're kind of putting out there now of, or not message, but sort of talking about your life and saying, oh, I was living in New York. I was completely focused on my business to the point that it was kind of pathological and it was destructive to my life and my relationships and stuff. And you're deciding, like, I want to step it back. I want to focus more on living a good life and figuring out what a good life is exactly and living that versus just producing insane amount of content. I don't know that that would have resonated with me a couple of years ago.

I don't know if I was grown enough to have understood the value of that. And now it's like it's starting to click and make sense. I might have actually just tuned out if that was what you were talking about a couple years ago. Yeah. Well, look, I think that a couple years ago, like people didn't understand what any of this was. Remember the first time you heard the term YouTuber burnout? Yeah. Like, come on.

Don't be a little bitch. Like, you make videos. Like, come on. The idea that it's, there's something noble about driving yourself crazy to make a whole lot of content. That's right. It's kind of a startup mentality too. Like you work 80 hours a week, but you help create a. really good app so it's okay this is a noble sacrifice on your part it's hustle porn and i'm hugely

guilty of being like a huge proponent of glamorizing the hustle and i think that there's value to it and i think that hard work is admirable but this idea that the only way to find success or happiness in life is by like making wild sacrifices and all you do is that hustle i think is completely incorrect right i think it's i think it's unfair yeah and i think that like so much of my early content was me about was me sharing that, you know, I think that I'm just a different person now. And I think to what you're saying, like, I wasn't that person then. So if you stepped in or any viewer stepped in and I was the person that I am now five years ago, I think it would have been really fucking boring. Yeah. It would have to seem self-indulgent. Yeah. I mean, it's still self-indulgent,

but I make fucking videos about my life. But then the problem is, is that at a certain point, you have to start saying no to everything. Like you right now, I was listening to Joe Rogan talk about this other day. Got offered a role in Kevin Smith's movie and Kevin Smith was going to fly him out for a couple days you do it Joe's just like no it just I'm not doing it's like you're a good friend of mine but I just I don't do anything anymore because I've already got a life that I'm really happy with and every single time I have to get on a plane it's a couple of days of doing stuff that I'm not as happy with so logically speaking I then have to start turning down all the shit that's being thrown at me and I'm sure you end up doing a shitload of it to myself as well you have to end up prioritizing something

emphasizing something yeah it's it's tough Gary Vaynerchuk described it to me when I was talking about it's like drowning in a tidal wave of opportunity. And like, good for you. God bless you if you are ever in a position where you feel like you're drowning in opportunity. But for somebody like me, whom, you know, I spent the first decade of my career just like struggling and so poor

and having a little kid and little boy that I could barely support and any opportunity was such a huge deal. And then all of a sudden you find yourself in a position where there's myriad opportunity coming from every direction to say no feels so irresponsible. that even now, like, I'm looking 38 years old. I'm financially in a great place and I feel really strong about my career. I still like pay a therapist hundreds of dollars an hour to help me understand and come to terms with this idea that it's okay to say no.

It's okay to like let people down every once in a while because like if you don't look out for number one, like if you don't keep an eye on yourself, like nobody else is going to. Yeah. The world's just going to kind of take, take, take, take till there's nothing left. And the problem is that most people can't understand that they're taking something from you. Like with me, when I asked you to come do an interview, like being in the position I am in, I understand it to be me asking you to spend a couple hours less with your daughter realistically. You know, that might, I don't know that it's exactly a trade. Like probably she's got stuff to do.

But you're really kind of asking people to spend less time with their family when you ask them to do stuff for you. Yeah. I mean, it's, it comes a prioritization. And like, you know, like, so let's talk about you. asking me to come here. And like, we've been going back and forth for a year plus. You've always been totally cool about it. I'm a fan of your show.

I wanted to come on here. I think there's value in this conversation, value to me personally in this conversation. And then, like, if you remember, like, when you texted me, you're like, what time works for you? I know you get up early. And, like, literally, like, 11 o'clock is the exact time where I can drop my daughter off at at school and then just drive straight here. And so there was such kind of a mutual respect for, like, let's, can this work? If this is work, let's do it.

And that makes making those decisions really easy. And I think, you know, Joe Rogan's example of, like, being in this movie, no, like, there's no such thing as just flying there and shooting for a day and flying back. Like, Joe Rogan's right. That's several days of his life. That's interrupting his bread and butter, which is his, you know, whether it's his podcast or any of his stand-up or the things that he's really passionate about. And I think that, like, it takes real discipline to be able to navigate that in your career. And I'm trying to find a happy medium for me right now. Right. I'm constantly overwhelmed with this idea that like I'm letting my YouTube audience down.

Yeah. And that kills me. I feel like I owe everything I have to my YouTube audience. But do you feel like they feel that down? I feel like you've been pretty consistent. I don't know. Not daily exactly, but I I feel that way. I don't know if that's the truth, but like I feel so wildly indebted to my YouTube audience, even when they're shitting on me. Right. Even when they're picking on me. I still feel like, you know what? Thanks for caring enough to still make fun of me. Right. You know, it's like my YouTube audience gave me everything. And you have to keep that perspective on the fact that it's so weird to have that many subscribers off of just being yourself. Off of just, yeah, it's the weirdest thing.

And they'll never come to terms of that. And it's crazy, too. The other day I was having a conversation with somebody and they're talking to me about this, well, actually, it's TI, this rapper. They did a big podcast deal and stuff and now he's out there. They're putting so much money into this podcast. so much to promote. TI's hosting? Yeah, he's like his podcast.

He has like a three-year deal. He got so many millions of dollars to do it. He still gets X percentage on the back end. It's just, I'm baffled because now I'm like, holy fuck. Like me starting a podcast in 2013 is literally me setting my iPhone up

on a tripod in the back of my bike shop. And now podcasting has got to the point where it's this big, but there's this much money being thrown around. It makes me feel incredibly lucky because it's like, how the fuck are you going to be able to compete and start something independently

if it gets to the point where there's so many people on the platform that are being propped up by giant backings. Yeah, I mean, look, YouTube's no different. To succeed on YouTube, I remember like eight years ago, 10 years ago, I had such a formula for making viral videos that I would know definitively

if something would be viral. Snowboard being dragged behind the truck or whatever. And even like my daily vlog, I just like part of the motivation to start that was the people who were doing daily shows then were like talented smart people like fun for louis and ben brown and creators like that but they were just talking into a point and shoot and i remember watching them talking to a point shoot and it was like you know what i find myself interested in their life what if it wasn't a shaky terrible fucking image what if it was like beautifully shot and what if it was

really easy to watch and what if it felt like a movie every day and that's like not that maybe i was the first one to get there but it's not that brilliant of an idea I think if I didn't do it, somebody else would have figured that out right away. But like, do that now. No one's going to give a shit about you on YouTube. But even you saying that, though, it's like I can imagine somebody coming out having an interesting perspective on vlogging. And it really not being that difficult for them to sort of fill in the blanks. If they shoot in a cool way, yes, granted, if they film it the way that you were filming your vlogs, which you put a lot of effort into and stuff, it's like you're going to have to advance beyond that.

The editing is going to have to be interesting. When I look at Emma Chamberlain's shit, I'm like, this is interesting to me because she's got this sort of like meta-editing analysis where she's jumping back and forth a lot of times while she's editing it and adding in more thoughts and stuff. And I'm like, this feels very, very new and modern to me. Emma is like, I'm a huge fan of hers and everything she does,

but she's someone who came to the platform with a style that you've never seen before. And you can look at that and see like, this is an evolution, not sort of a revolution in style. But no one's ever done that before. I remember like, I remember Fuck, it had to have been like four years I was pretty early in my vlog

Maybe like six months into it Reading a tweet that was like I don't know who wrote it But it said I hate all vloggers Except for Casey and Istad and David Dobrick And I was like, who the fuck is David Dobrick How dare he be shit? How do I dare I have to share this tweet with him

And I watched one of his videos And I was like, oh shit Right I was like what balls on this kid Right To cut out everything but the funny moments Right Like who would possibly

This doesn't make any sense. Like jokes. Set up. Punchline. Set up. Punchline. Set up. Punchline. And then the episode's over. I was like, this is going to explode. Yeah. You know, now he's arguably the biggest, you know, biggest creator out there because he brought something new to the table.

But even for this day, like there's a couple of copycats. But it's, that's hard to duplicate. The interesting thing with me when I look at David D'Urbock, too, though, is that he's somebody who seems like he saw YouTube as a way for him to build up towards getting a TV show and being. being a mega celebrity and everything. Whereas for me, YouTube was always pretty much the goal. And there's not really any deal that anybody could ever give me

that would make me want to give up ownership of my shit or to do something different. And that's one thing I always really liked about your shit. And every time that somebody tells me like, oh, you should talk to so-and-so about doing a TV deal, whatever. I'm like, you know, I know what I want to do. And I've listened to so many people that I respect, talk about what it's like to go and do a TV show.

And it really just doesn't seem like it's the move for me. I feel like it would take me further away from what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that the unique experience that I had in the space was that I actually had a TV show. I wrote and directed a show that was on HBO, and I had made feature films. I'd worked for sort of the more institutionalized side of the media industry for a dozen years before coming to YouTube. And now the idea that, you know, that you'd want to lend your talent or your skill set to that very rigid format doesn't make any sense to me. Except it makes you more famous theoretically.

I mean, I think it makes you famous in a different group of people. I think if you were to go ask any, you know, 12 to 18 year old kid who's the most famous person, they're going to say Emma Chamberlain. They're not going to say, you know, a big TV star, movie stars name. They're not going to say Brad Pitt. They're going to name their favorite YouTuber. They're going to say Ninja. You know, that's what matters.

And like those 12, 14, 15 year old kids, like, they're going to be 20-year-olds in a couple of years. I think we're seeing like a seismic shift in the industry. But David Dobrick, like if he had a mega popular Netflix show, he would then probably be able to completely transcend where he's made it to and enter a new level of fame, don't you think? He's an extraordinary example, because I think that what he did that's so special is that his content's not necessarily about him.

It's about a style and a curation and a direction that he absolutely built and curates. but, you know, when I first met him, I was like, dude, you got to put yourself in your vlog more, make him all about you. And he was kind of like, no, not my thing. Right. And he was right. I was wrong.

So I think he might be an outlier in this example. I think that's why, you know, you've seen him cross over a little bit. I really don't even understand what he's doing with all that footage because he was at the porn awards for like a whole day. He was there for hours and hours. And he didn't use any of that footage in that week's vlog. I'm like, that would. be a whole 10 minute video for us. No problem.

It's like, when I got like really into my vlog when I was like six months into it and it was in cruise control, the production side, you know, I was so tight on what I'd shot, on what I'd shoot rather. I would only shoot if I knew it was going to be in. I never let that camera roll. Right. I was so deliberate about it because that was effectively editing in camera. Yeah, that's a great feeling. This is pre-edited. Exactly. When I would import and start cutting that shit, it was perfectly in order. It was linear. Like, And maybe I'd say the same line two or three times to get the inflection right.

12 minutes of footage for a 10 and a half of the vlog. That's when you know you've got your shit dialed in. And the idea of having to sift through hours and hours of footage to find your couple minutes is like the most daunting burden I could ever imagine. Yeah, that's a fact. Did you ever catch wind of the conversation that I had about you while I was on acid in this one vlog? Jesus Christ, no, how did I miss that? I had some homework to do. The key quote was Jurassic Park was a vlog about dinosaurs.

I was fried and I said that And then I look at the camera and I said something along the lines of When you think about it Casey Nistad's just a really amateur dinosaur blogger Yeah look I think Adam there's a lot of truth to that I'm an amateur aspirational dinosaur vlogger No they hasn't even introduced the dinosaurs to the vlog yet

They're just yeah coming soon coming soon But the idea that in my head I was like seeing the world of content To be so expansive that there was no line between movies movies and vlogs and like they seem like they're exactly the same thing and a lot of ways for a lot of Intents and purposes they basically are I just like that your acid brain Somehow I was able to poke my head in there along with Jurassic Park that is a legacy Well, let me tell you doing a vlog on acid. It's not easy. I was lucky that I had somebody to film me because I definitely would have stopped filming Immediately. I have a rule like no social media after after like three drinks like that you just got to put that shit away because you wake up the next morning just full of regret

it makes so much sense. It's so funny when you're... Yeah, and then you just got to put that shit away. I don't know one time I got like not knocked out fully, but like certainly concussed in a bar fight. And then this is over 10 years ago, but like, I was tweeting. I'm like, the next morning I'm like,

why the fuck didn't you guys take my phone away from me? How dare you? You saw what was happening. About Jurassic Park in vlogging, though, like I had these sort of grandiose visions when I really got into vlogging, where I really intellectualize what, what I was doing.

other people in the space were doing, which was like, this was at like 2015, 2016, like, Pete Kardashians. Mm. And for me, what I saw the opportunity in vlogging as is like the truest form of reality TV. Right. And maybe it's sort of leveled off, like, plateaued as a version of that now, but you know how to show, like, the Kardashians is, or survivor is produced. Right.

You know, like, between Kim Kardashian's reality and then the audience is, what the audience sees is like a million layers. Yeah. producers, directors, setting up shots, getting it perfect, not liking this, editing that, curating exactly how this individual's life is portrayed. And I think the romantic idea about vlogging, the reason why I'm so enthusiastic and always will be about YouTube, is that it removes all of those filters. Like what you're seeing is the truest version of someone's life. You were talking about Fusi and like watching him share his struggles with mental health. Like it got weird at times and fucked up at times, but like there was some truth to that.

It really helped sort of define what this platform was going to be and how it was going to be used. If you can be a vlogger who cries into the camera, I mean, you might see somebody on the Kardashians cry, but you're not going to see them cry to the camera. That relationship right there of Fusi being willing to do that. And yes, it takes somebody who's a bit unhinged, maybe unstable, whatever he was going through it his life. but it takes that person to break down that wall. I've met a kid once, and this is when Fusi was at his peak, and I was at my peak, and I met a kid, and he's like, you're the only YouTuber I watch, you and Fusi, too.

And I was like, tell me what it is. What do you like about Yusef's content? What do you see in that? And he goes, it's nice to know that other people struggle with the same things I struggle with. And up until that point, I dismissed his content. Like, it's like, no, this is just sort of sensationalist bullshit. But hearing that from some kid who had, you know, no hat in the game at all made me appreciate the need for, like, all these different perspectives that YouTube has enabled. Yeah.

There was something about when I first saw Tanna that I was like, oh, like, she is that that center of confidence that all these little girls want. Because all these little girls are insecure and they all feel bad about themselves and they don't have the confidence to just be. be a strong, powerful woman. And here you have Tanna and she's like 19. And yeah, maybe she's all fucked up and she has the will to talk about that. But she's really loud and proud about being a mess. Yeah. And I think that, you know, Tana.

Tanna. Tanna. I should have worn my Tannicon shirt. Tana embodies like DGAF in a way that, I don't know, you know, any, any girl had ever embodied on YouTube before. Right. And that, like, I don't give a fuck attitude. I think is important because it's easy to dismiss,

but I think that there's some truth behind that, which is like it's always okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to share aspects of your life, even though you know you're going to be criticized for them. Right. I just remember like one of the first times I ever met my now wife, Candice, like she was telling me things that were so personal and so gnarly. And I just remember sitting there across from her and being like,

why are you telling me this? don't you know that like there's no way that I can't not judge you for what you're telling me? Like there's no. And then like I left that first time we ever hung out and I was like, Jesus. And I couldn't stop thinking about her because it was like then you're able to, you don't truly understand somebody unless you know the full picture. Right. And I was raised in like a conservative family, not politically conservative, but an uptight family in Connecticut.

And like my mother is the quintessential. Like everything's perfect all the time. If you're struggling, you fucking hide that. If you've got problems, you hide that shit. You put on a smiling face. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. Doesn't matter.

And I think that is like, could not be more wrong, could not be more far off. And I learned that from my wife that like, you've got to like, you've got to be vulnerable. You've got to really share who you are. Otherwise people will have no idea who the real you is. And I think that there have been a handful of people on YouTube, whether by design or just by accident, that have really demonstrated that in ways that have sort of changed the conversation. Do you feel sometimes, and this is how I feel, is that I was always a person who would just gladly rattle off my narrative of whatever the fuck I was working on, whatever it was going on in my head. Now I feel like my narrative, like I have this insecurity that it's not relatable enough.

I don't want to just talk to random people about all these interviews I'm doing, all these famous people that I've been talking to that I know and stuff. It just feels like my life experience used to be sort of relatable. Like when you're trying to start your business, trying to get it off the ground, or you're just being a regular guy. It's like kind of easy. I meet people all the time who will just sort of lay it on you and just tell you all about whatever the fuck they were doing this week. And I'm sitting there thinking like,

this motherfucker is really telling me about what it's like to work in the shoe store. And I'm like, he's telling me all about it. My life is so much more interesting than this dude's life, but I'm not volunteering anything. Like, when did the switch happen for me? Yeah. I mean, I get really insecure. You know, I think we all as like human beings,

there's like a moment in our life that is the most, defining moment in anyone's life. And there's like an arrested development that takes place. Like you never mature past that. And for me, it was like, you know, I ran away from home when I was 15. I had a kid when I got like my girlfriend pregnant when I was 16. I had a kid when I was 17. And my parents didn't have any money or anything.

I had no one to help me. And I was on welfare and collecting food stamps and making $8 an hour under the table to try to support my family living in a fucking trailer park. And that that was like two years. That was two years before I sort of got out of that and moved to New York City. I will never not be that guy. I will always be like the 18-year-old kid who everybody looks at as like a loser and has no money. And it's just trying to like make ends meet.

I'll always be that person. So now when I like, you know, get to fly first class or like, you know, last week I was flown to Abu Dhabi to go to the F1 race and like I make videos about it and stuff, I put it out there without much thought and then like I get criticized like the same things you're saying like that's not relatable like you get to live this wild life and there's a part of me that's like what are you talking about? I'm just like a poor kid

who lives in a trailer park and I get really lucky and I get to do this. But to expect the audience to understand that I think is a short sightedness on my part like I there's an obligation to explain and get them to relate and yeah I feel like I'm losing that

as I take for granted like don't you know I'm just like you? Yeah. And look, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm, and it's fucking weird. I'll meet somebody's a grandfather and those, they never shut up. They just talk about her life all the fucking time. And I'm like, that right there, the way you are, like, I'm thinking about it as a

YouTuber and I'm thinking like, that thing that you have where you just never shut up about your life is an invaluable thing to have as a content creator. Like, when you listen to like a really good, like, radio dude. who just rambles about politics. That in itself is its own skill. If you can gather on about politics for hours and hours and hours and not just hit a wall and say like, you know, for me, I enjoy talking about politics too, but it's like at some point,

like I feel like I have an efficiency towards talking about it. If you could just blabber, like that's a real skill. Well, I mean, like you talk about like Joe Rogan. I think Joe Rogan's superpower is that he can have a million different versions of the same conversation with a million different people and it's interesting every single time. Like that is his greatest gift. Yeah. And I don't think we all have that. And I feel like I, I, I maybe had a part of that. And I definitely feel like I've, I've lost touch with that. Like, I'm now, like, you're saying, like, you don't know if you should

say these things people are going to relate. Like, I've also gotten really, like, uncomfortable talking about aspects of my life or talking about my interests or talking about, because, like, are you going to relate to this? Are you going to judge me for this? Like, and you know too much. And you know too much. which is a big. It's a liability. It's a big part of the problem because a lot of people, like if you listen to stand up,

a lot of stand up is really just people basically admitting that they're stupid. Because it's like if you go on stage and you say like, you know, like what's up with this? Like what's up with the fucking trash truck? Why does it do this? Why don't they come at this time?

It's like, well, if you work for the city, all of a sudden it's not funny. You can't tell that joke because it's like you know why it happened like that. It's not interesting. People who kind of know, about celebrities and can go on stage and say, what's up? I heard this celebrity did this and this stupid thing that I saw in the news the other day, but if you, you know, work for TMZ and you know

every last detail of this, it's a lot harder to be funny. And that's kind of a problem about a lot of stuff in general, as you get older, is that the more you know about stuff, the harder it is to just sort of have these just fly on the wall, ridiculous conversations. Like, it becomes a little too academic once you really know shit. Yeah, I think that's the double-edged sort of maturity. It's like that amazing Joe Rogan bit Where he's like talking about the sun Is this thing that's in the sky That we need to live

Without it, we die But if you look at it, it'll make you go blind Yeah And it's just like so silly and relatable But if you were to have like an astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson talk about it He'd be able to explain it in scientific terms It's just not interesting

And bore everyone in the audience It's not funny I don't give a shit I want to hear Joe Rogan make fun of it It's fucking hysterical and relatable Because I know nothing about the sun Yeah You know, there's a YouTube channel that I just want to shout out while we have a fair amount of viewers, I'm assuming, watching this.

There's this dude, Chris Ramsey. Are you familiar with him? No. He's a YouTuber. He's got like 3 million subscribers. And the main thing that he does is he solves these, I would compare, it's very good production quality. I compare it to like your stuff almost. It seems like he's kind of influenced by you.

He's got like the top-down camera. He solves puzzles. He gets these puzzles that cost thousands of dollars in the mail and they're ridiculously complicated. It's not that. he's putting it together for the most part a lot of it it's like boxes with all kinds of shit on the inside and he has to like turn tiny little knobs on it and all this shit and like basically figure out how to open the box oh my god the production quality is so good he does these intros where he'll basically like you know create some ridiculous dynamic scene and then he's

either filming is really good while he's doing it and stuff and he's just sort of analyzing it and for me it's like i always was interested in these kind of puzzles but have i was always this head a person or i'd touch it for two seconds i'd be like what the fuck am i got to do i don't know i don't to solve this, but like just the fact that he could create a YouTube channel where he provided a platform for me to learn a lot about this thing that I've always kind of found interesting but never had an entry point into. Me and my girl, I've been watching like at least an hour of his vlogs every night for the past couple nights.

That is so exciting to me. You see like where else in the world in the history of media could someone like that find an audience? This guy's not getting a TV show for the last part. You know, like, pitch to NBC like here's the idea. I want to solve puzzles. It's going to take me 20 minutes. There's me a camera above my hands. Like, there's no chance.

And to me, like, that is the magic of YouTube. That is, like, that's what YouTube brought to the world. That is, like, the greatest gift they could ever give. Yeah. You see Jake Roper's new show? No. So he takes TV shows, you know, like, back to the future. And then explains it in scientific terms.

Like, could this actually happen? Right. I think we have an episode coming out next week that I have a bit in where it's like, could you punch through someone's chest and I'm the person who gets punched. Wow, really? It's amazing. I'm guessing no.

No. You just like cut through a lot of shit. I haven't seen the episode yet so I don't know. Right. But like they did a big gag with like pretend to punch me and they get pulled through a wall. And they got one of those like gel body forms that actually has organs in it and stuff. Wow. They use them for like if you shoot them or stab them so you can see what the effect is.

Yeah. And they show the exact effect of what would happen if you were hit with that kind of punch. great fucking show. Yeah, great idea. And this was an idea Jake Roper had and he made it happen. Yeah.

The beauty of YouTube. And that's what's crazy though is that now you have people who are really getting real budgets to do shit for YouTube. So there's a lot more high production shit happening too. And I appreciate it.

I think it's great, especially when they give those budgets to YouTube, like native YouTube creators. You know? That's a very strange thing in YouTube though is that like a lot of, you know, we always have this conversation about who gets invited

to these YouTube awards shows and shit and it feels like, I mean, in general, that's the conversation. is YouTube themselves not maybe even really understanding in their own community when you see this stuff like the rewinds. Yeah. Do you see that rewind that that guy made?

I tweeted the shit out of it. I saw that you tweeted it, but I didn't actually watch it. He made a doper version. It makes you cry. Really? Yeah, he calls it YouTube Legends. So it's like a historical version, which is due. It's 2020.

Like make it a big one. Right. And it's this historical sort of story, narrative about YouTube. Wow. Where he's like showing PewDie Pye's first video ever and then fast forwarding to now. And it's this four minute journey through YouTube. Wow. And you watch that and you're like, fuck, that's like, that is beautiful.

And that's what it should be. Wow. Because, yeah, the one that YouTube put out, which I'll defend. Safe. Safe. But like, where were they supposed to go? I mean, there's an argument that says like they could have done something really creative and smart like this guy did, this creator did.

But they got their shit beat out of him for that abomination they made last year. Rightly so. It was a disaster. Like, what are they supposed to do? Double down on that? But that's the weird thing is that that video was like, if you look at it in an isolated bubble, you could look at that video and say like, oh, this is a very like positive, fun, you know, inclusive.

It was so tone deaf and out of time. Yeah, because the true soul of YouTube is jaded, ironic, you know, spiteful. Like, I mean, nothing exists in this. Like, you don't have a Joe Justice. Jojo Siwa without also there being like a little leper colony of other YouTube channels that are going to then like point at the things that she does and poke holes in it and that

in a way sort of becomes the flavor of YouTube is that everybody not only has a place to shine but also has a place to get destroyed right it's got its shadows by the way I'm a huge and I say this without any irony I'm a huge Jojo Siwa fan me too because that's the kind of thing that

you know I watched some of her stuff and I felt like I immediately understood children better in a way that I probably could not have otherwise. Not, not. I mean, yes. She, she does that, which is a big deal. Right. But also, like, for a woman, her, a girl, her age to deal, like, I'm a 38-year-old guy. When somebody says something bad about me, makes fun of my big nose or any, like, I'm

like, it makes me sad for her to be able to handle that and just keep cranking out the content. And then I, my daughter's a big fan of hers. And I went to one of Jojo's concerts. Right. And she's got thousands of kids there all wearing her clothes, singing along to her songs, none of which have any swears in them. They're like totally as safe as it could be for children. She built this huge fucking business about around herself and what she's doing. And this isn't like the parents pulling the marionette strings here. Like this is just a driven young lady who's just doing it.

Like overcoming all the naysayers. Plus when she got in that fight with Justin Bieber, the shade that she threw right back was like, all right. Justin Bieber can't win that. She's not afraid to show her teeth either. There's no losing that fight for her. Like Justin Bieber, sorry, you're going to look. Like a bully no matter what happens there.

But she played that really well. But are you mega famous at a Jojo Seawalk concert? No. Are you kidding me? Really? No idea who I am. That is amazing. It's like you're a fucking undercover spy show.

Not that you're famous, but they don't know. The only place I was famous at that entire Jojo Siwa concert was after the show, we went backstage to hang out. And her team that shoots her videos, they're all fans of my work. They're all fans of my videos. And stylistically, they take a lot from what I've done. to try to make her videos better. Yeah.

And those kids were great, like awesome team. And her backup dancers, they knew me because they were a little older. Right. But like the seven-year-old's in there? No, no idea. I love that. That wherever I go, I'm famous with the security guards. It says a lot.

It says a lot. It feels so good. Because these are like out of like, you know, the whole room. It's like, these usually are the guys that I find myself, I gravitated towards. I remember hanging out with Roman Atwood. Right. And we went into a Walmart. And the kind of fame he had in there was like overwhelming.

Really? And then like later that day we went to Cleveland and we ate at a vegan restaurant and the amount of fame I had in there. You know what I mean? And it just like it draws this distinction, which is like Roman is the everyman vlogger and clearly like I have an audience with like fucking vegans that live in Cleveland. Oh my God. That is hilarious. It was really, it was not lost on either of us. That is beyond hilarious.

You know a lot of people call me Casey nice tats. You do have nice tats. Thanks. You do have nice tats. A lot of people call me that nice tats. know yeah really probably almost nobody has ever called me that but that they should maybe a couple comments over the years yeah you are a nice tat i met roman roman atwood and i didn't tell him but i mentioned to the audience later that that was my nickname for a few years on youtube roman backwood

ah that works i didn't tell me about that i didn't want to have to explain what backwood was he didn't know what a backwood was i mean i just don't want to don't want to risk it i don't have to be able to so you're telling me about drugs roman he's he's an interesting case study he's built a hell of a career for himself. This is true. If you look at like the pranky stuff that he started with, with Vitaly way back in the day, and the fact that he was able to take such controversial content and then go to be like the quintessential family vlogger is such a wild transition. And I think he did it with like a kind of, a kind of grace. He did. Well, compared to what has happened to a lot of his peers, for sure. Sure. He never apologized for the some of the more risque stuff that he did when he was

younger. Yeah. But he really owned the family stuff. And I think he's done a great job with it. Definitely. When you look at what Vitaly is trying to do with Vitaly uncensored, have you pay attention to this at all? Sure. It's just like an interesting development. Like, you know, there has to be different versions of YouTube that are going to pop off. If anything, the most incredible thing is the fact that there is no viable real alternative for the most part. I mean, look, I look at what Vitale does. And it's like, where do you go with this? Five years ago, where do you go with this? Okay, you make like really like the most extreme prank videos that exist.

Yeah. You know, his videos where he's like pretending to like be a Russian hitman and stuff like that's like, okay, like how do you, where do you go from there? Yeah.

And the fact that he went in the direction of Italian censored, like, not for me. Like that's not my... And who is the audience that wants to spend whatever, $15 a month to just sort of see some pranks?

But then also there are boobs out a lot of pranks. A lot of... For me, if I was a huge fan of pranks and I was a huge fan of porn, I feel like those are two different things in my brain. I'll watch the pranks and then maybe at a different

point in the day I'll watch porn. Well, I think that judging by what I understand of the success that he's had, I think you were wrong. Yes. I mean, apparently I am. Clearly, Vatali found something. He's like, you know what? It's a demographic. You know what's a genre no one's touched on? Yeah. Prank

slash porn. Right. And he did it and he owned it. And, you know, he built something. And the steroid thing, too. That's probably good for views overall. I don't know if you ever thought about that. What, him being so... Just being on steroids is like, that's got to help bring in views. Does it?

It's like the purple hair thing. Like, all these girls on Twitch get more views because they have purple hair. It's like Russ Vitellas probably getting more views because he's all yelped up. He is a monster. Yeah. He's enormous. He's told me he's been on steroids for three years straight. You know, I just became briefly convinced that the cardboard piece was still in my hat.

I saw that. That was, I saw you looking for that. I was checking. And then it wasn't there and I felt like a fucking psycho. Steroids for three years. Uh-huh. That's very worried about his testicle's ability to continue to produce testosterone once he's done with that. You know, I, I'm a long-distance runner, and I really leaned into my running with my content.

So, you know, to each his own. Yeah. No, that's real. Have you seen Storyfire? Because we recently tried that out. I know that they're one of the sponsors of your channel. They do, yeah. Big fan of Mick Juggernauts and a huge appreciation for what he's trying to do with StoryFier. fire. I hope he finds great success. Yeah, it's a very different attitude.

Like with Vitaly, he goes and he creates this like sort of porn friendly version of it. With McDougar and I think it's like for him, he really seems like he wanted like a home where he could at least feel comfortable. I feel like in particular, he's the kind of channel that really got fucked over by the whole apocalypse thing because he was making content that wasn't really, it doesn't seem all that provocative to me. It's like this is the kind of shit that should be able to live on YouTube. And YouTube not being friendly towards that stuff is a very different case than YouTube not being friendly to Info Wars. Right. And I think that this is where we get back

to what I was saying, which is like, there's such a spectrum. It is so many shades of gray. There is not black or white. It's not a binary. And I think he got swept up in the middle of that because like describe his content. It's like angry, people flipping over tables, some degree of violence.

Asterisk, this is all performative. This is not real. And it's like, well, well, let's play it safe and just not push that out to all of his, all of his followers. But then you watch the content. You're like, no, no, this is like just fun entertainment. Yeah. But I think, like, who makes those determinations?

Yeah. Who makes those sorts of decisions? And I think that he, um, he definitely got a short end of the stick in, in that equation. So good for him for not just sitting around and complaining about, but actually doing something. Yeah, definitely. Shout out of story fire. Um, so at this point in your life, where's your motivation at? Like, what is the, you seem like you're so.

you've seen so many of the valleys and the peaks of fame and riches and whatnot and now you've seem like you're recoiling into living more of a normal existence but I know how the brain works and I feel like you're not the kind of guy that's going to be a little wrestling or laurels too much so you always have to be working on big new things right yeah I think that like I think that any any person worth their weight like needs to be challenged in life otherwise what's the point of waking up every day yeah you know you know all the stories about like the guy who busted his asses life and then retired and five years later was dead because he just like couldn't handle being bored. My muse in life is my grandmother who like fell in love with tap dancing when she was eight.

Oh yes. And had a tap dance studio until she was 92 years old because she fucking loved it. This woman worked 40 hours a week on her feet until she was 92. That's my dream. And for me with making movies or videos or whatever you want to characterize what I do as is like it's sort of my sense of purpose. And I think if that were to go away because I want to sleep more, run more, do something like that, that I think I'd feel like a bit of a shell of a human being. Yeah. But, and it's a big butt, like at this exact moment, I'm at such a transition in life.

We're like leaving New York City, having two very little kids at home that I definitely want to give more attention to than I've been able to in the past, especially with my son. It's about finding that medium. And I talk about, like, being in therapy and jest, but it's very real. Like I'm struggling to figure out that medium because I'm such a person of extremes like I don't go for a jog twice a week. I run 15 miles a day like I don't like I want to eat healthy so I don't like cut back on french fries. I like go full on vegan the next day. Like I don't know how to be a moderate in anything I do. Right. And like right now at this point in my life it's about finding that sort of middle ground. Yeah. I can tell you like the careers that I sort of idolize are someone's like a, uh, Spike Jones. You know, Spike Jones? Yeah. You know, like, this guy is, you don't hear a thing about him. And then boom, he's nominated for like six Academy Awards. You don't hear anything about him. And then he drops in, like, Apple computer. He made that commercial for them where, like, the walls are moving and stuff last year.

It was like the greatest thing I've ever seen. But you feel like if you go away for a couple of years and then pop up with some great movie that is your insecurity not going to allow you to do such thing? Right now? No. You can't go from YouTube where it's like, when I was daily vlogging, when I'd be a few hours late, I'm like, my career's over. And working on a movie is just this insane process of years of your life. Sure. And you might come out and it might be terrible. Might be terrible, but it might be great.

And I think there's, there's real, there's romance in the idea of committing yourself to something and working in a vacuum where the world doesn't know you're doing it. And then being a present at the world, look at Quentin Tarantino. You don't hear his name once for five fucking years. And then when he comes out of the movie, and some of his movies suck. Or the angry eight, something like that, the one that took place. You didn't see it. You don't need to see it.

But then some of his movies are like the greatest things you've ever seen. Like Pulp Fiction is one of the greatest movies ever made in glorious bastards. Like I saw it three times in the theater and that movie was like fucking four hours long. He'll go five years. You don't hear his name. And when he comes out with a new movie, it's the talk of the town. I saw anybody talks about. So I think that there is like a, there's a place where you can really focus on your craft and do the things you're passionate about.

And the world will welcome them when you come out with them. I just don't know how to get there. Yeah. Especially with this like YouTube sort of dopamine rush that you get every 12 hours of uploading or 24 hours of uploading. Yeah, it's hard to imagine leaving that behind for anything. I still feel like I'm very much on that treadmill of just chasing after everything still. And it's like, I don't want to lose that.

I don't want to fall back on that. I don't want to give up on that having that extra determination to go and go out of my way to film some extra shit to get some extra views. is basically the super short analysis of it. Or really just to do more of my life to make content that more and more and more of my fans will enjoy. Like, I like that feeling of sacrifice

of doing 10 interviews this week because I know that that's really hard and that I can, you know, I just, I don't want to feel cut off from that relationship of like, I'm going to work my ass off and then I'm going to get the rewards from it. Yeah.

I mean, I always, I always lean into this idea that like in life there's only two things you should ever be doing. certainly ever be doing one of these two things. And one is figure out what you want to do. And then two is doing it. And most people never ever do the first part.

The first part's super fucking hard. Like to really figure out what you want to do in life. Most people don't figure that out. And then they end up getting a job and having babies. And they just end up doing something that maybe isn't what they'd want to do. So for people like you who know what you want to do, the doing it part, you just like, it's so hard not to run at that with everything you've got. Like when I was daily vlogging was the most, I was when I was up the most miserable, the most unhealthy, and the most like volatile time in my entire life.

Really? But it was by far the most satisfying time. I knew exactly what I needed to do. But that turmoil, you kind of find yourself in that. Well, it's an interesting sort of juxtaposition because there's something so satisfying about waking up and like 10 seconds out of bed knowing exactly what my mission was for that day. Right. And not just knowing my mission. It wasn't just showing up at the restaurant and working at.

hours washing dishes. But it was like at the end of that mission, I would have a product, it'd have something that was tangible. And I'd share it with this audience. And you get feedback. Get feedback. And then you know what? And you do it again. And it was fucking amazing. It was the most incredible time. And the cost of that was overwhelming. It almost cost me my marriage at like my relationship with my family. Like I didn't have any friends and I was logging because like what am I going to come hang out with you for? You're not good on camera. So I just don't hang out with anybody unless they're good on camera. And like it was really an awful position to be. And I'm, from a human perspective.

I'd given up all humanity. But from a career or an ambition perspective, it was a really wildly satisfying place to be. I knew what I needed to do, and all I had to do was do it. And that felt so good. Yeah. And it's interesting, though,

when you think about someone like David Dobrick, because he sort of is the evolution of Casey and I say in the sense that he sort of figured out, like, oh, no, we're going to create a big-ass cast. So there's going to be a narrative, and it doesn't have to be my life. It doesn't have to be my relationship, but I'm going to create this cast, really sort of go out of my way to create that. The thing that you see with him, and it's the same thing you saw what happened with Team 10.

It's the same thing you happen. You see happen with like basically every crew of YouTubers is that over time, it splinters off. The cool thing about David's thing is that it doesn't seem like it was ever really supposed to be permanent. So it doesn't feel like these people are sort of like abandoning him and they're unhappy with how things turned out. It's sort of like, this is the nature of his shit, is that it's supposed to be some degree of turnover. Yeah, and he's also, he's also chill. I have very, I have very little chill. Like, I remember, like, the frustrations of, like, me talking to camera and then turning the camera and getting Candace, my wife in frame. And, like, if she didn't react the way I wanted to react, like, my instinctual response was to, like, smash the camera and walk away from her. Wow. I'm being extreme. Not smash it? You smashed it before because you were too fed up with it? No, I never literally, but, like, that was a frustration in me. It's like, fuck, God, that was such an important shot. I didn't get it. God, damn it. How, how to, how to, how.

you know like what am I supposed to do now? Oh, I've been there with my girlfriend where, you know, you're so wrapped up in the video that you're making and you turn the camera to them and you expect them to get it. They're not on like the way that you in your fucking head somehow assume that they were going to be on exactly the same page as you. And instead of like saying like, oh, can you actually say this? Which I'm sure she would have.

Instead, it's like it becomes a fight. It becomes this weird thing. And it's just sort of like, what is the sick thing I'm doing? It's exactly right. And I think that like, I think. that you know David's a laid-back guy like he's super chill about that stuff and he goes with the flow and he surrounds himself with the really smart people who sort of get what he's going for and you know you talk about him showing up the porn awards and shooting a whole day and not getting any

content I think that he is he's disciplined maybe in a way that I never was instead I really like worked so aggressively to control my environment to get exactly what I needed which I think was to the benefit of the content but to the detriment of my own life could you imagine creating a system I know you've like had you've worked with editors for the most part is that still you're not editing your own vlogs I know I edit everything oh you do now okay because you tried it out for a while no you know I tried to Dan was Dan yeah super talented YouTuber super talented filmmaker He never edited a single video that we made I think that maybe I did a poor job of communicating that the audience But the plan is for him to help me with some stuff because he's so capable But the truth was even someone is capable and is able as he was who understood me as well as he did because we're very

close friends. When it comes to editing yourself, it was just something I couldn't do. You know, I'm working on it like a documentary right now and I have three editors working on it all day every day. It's great because it's about a subject that's not me. It's not about me. But with my daily vlogs, it was like, I could tell that like if my eyebrows moved in a certain way or if the inflection of my voice was incorrect or if I said a joke that just wasn't funny, it didn't land right. I'm the only one who can determine, like, is that an accurate portrayal of who I really am and to try to absolve yourself of making those determinations and put that into someone else's hands is a nearly impossible thing to do so like the best videos i've made i haven't edited like make it

count that movie i made about nike like i didn't edit that do what you can't which is the favorite movie i've made in all the thousand movies on my videos on my youtube page like max my best friend like he edited that but what those both those movies have in common is they are not about me personally They're not about the intimacies of who I am. They're not about sort of a, they're on a portrayal of me or my personality. So that's something that I had to confront, and that was part of the reason why I sort of felt ultimately like why I had to stop with the vlog,

because I knew it was not scalable. Right. I could not build this up to a place where all I had to do was maybe show up or I had to focus on was the subject matter. Right, because that, that to me is sort of like the ultimate dream of what I'm sort of trying to create and stuff is that I want to be able to create an environment that's interesting enough that you could create a daily vlog out of it

and that I get to be just one of the characters in it and that the thing could sustain itself. Like in a way, that appeals to me so much. Yeah, that's the dream. Hard to get there. That's the dream. I mean, like, even big podcasters who just sort of show up, sit down, record the podcast, then walk away.

And they're surrounded by smart people who can edit it, post the bits of YouTube that need to be posted to YouTube, put it online, put it anywhere needs to be. That's the dream. Because all you're worried about then is having the most engaging conversation. being the best host you can be. Instead of having to deal with the bullshit.

Yeah. I always wonder if there's ever a day where, like, Phil DeFranco really just ain't fucking with it. And he just shows. He's just, have the news ready. I'm just going to show up and do it. You know, because it's like for somebody like him, you could very easily imagine that it can't be that hard for him to just pull back and let them. He's close. He's a good friend of mine. And we talk about this stuff.

He's close. Like, he sits down and he does a lot of work on the writing side. Right. So his team will put together stories. And he steps and no, no, no. It should sound like this, this. this. He does work with a teleprompter, but he falls off at a lot and just says, speaks, honestly, sort of speaks from his heart about the subject matter instead of reading

the words in front of him. And then he does one round of edits, and that's it. They do that they implement those edits and then upload without him giving the final sign off. And that's a kind of trust that I think you can only have if you've invested as much time and energy and the people around you. To build on that connection with the time. Yeah, it's trust. And that's like, I never had that trust, even with, you know, Dan Mays, who is a dear friend of mine who I think is more talented with a camera than I've ever been. Right. I still didn't have that trust because it's like, no, that that's not me.

Yeah. It's tough. Casey, I appreciate it so much, man. Thanks for having me by. Huge influence on my life. Let's do this again. Let's do it, yeah. Vlog it up.

Vlog it up. This is great. We got to take you out BMX riding sometime. Anytime. I used to build it a 360 when I was 14 years old. Off flat ground or off a jump? I need a little jump, but I could do it. Well, that's good.

That's probably, that's more. More than I can say right now. I can still hop up and down in the rear pegs. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah, because we had this pro skater Stevie Williams on the other day, and he was talking about doing a cherry picker, which if anyone wants to Google that,

it's like really old school 80s BMX trick where you like hold the brakes and you sort of stand over the front of the bike and you just hop up and down. And I'm like, dude, Stevie, you're like not old enough to know what that trick is. No, and as a kid. I used to BMX. Loved it. Nice to do. Casey nice to out. No jumper.

Thanks for having me. coolest podcast on the world. Check us out on YouTube, SoundCloud, iTunes, like, comment, subscribe, nojumber.com, if you want to support. Appreciate y'all.