No Jumper - Cassidy on His Come Up, The Freeway Battle, Dissing Mumble Rappers & More

Episode Date: March 31, 2023

Cassidy sits down with Adam to talk about his career, his legacy, battle rap, and more! ----- 00:00 Intro 0:55 Cassidy on writing his first rap in 4th grade about fire prevention and raps it 4:35 Cassidy lists all of his musical influences like Grandmaster Caz, Rakim and more 6:55 Not connecting the streets with rap at first and being influenced by Canibus and DMX 11:00 Staying on cadence, being creative with syllables and how technology changed music 16:10 Signing to a label at 17, hosting radio cyphers and creating the group Larsiny with Ruff Ryders 20:15 Ruff Ryders’ relationship and beating Freeway in a battle rap with Jay-Z & Swizz Beatz in attendance 34:00 How rappers used to represent labels during battle raps and dropping the first project 38:15 Curating the album “Split Personality”, dropping the single “I’m a Hustla” and having radio hits 42:35 Being locked up while going platinum, sampling Jay-Z bars and making a fortune off of ringtones 48:00 Hip hop creating sub genres for the new sounds coming out in music and radio play 52:10 Writing the record “6 Minutes” with Lil Wayne and Fabolous and changing the game again 57:00 Cassidy on his relationship with Swizz Beatz then and now 1:02:50 Cassidy on dissing Lil Uzi Vert and Lil Yachty and getting used to the new era rap music 1:09:15 New Cassidy album coming soon 1:13:40 Cassidy’s contribution to the battle rap culture and the Freeway battle that never happened 1:18:40 Cassidy charging $250,000 for appearances and believes he deserves more 1:24:35 Cassidy on Tory Lanez stealing his bars and starting a podcast 1:28:15 Writing bars in seconds, punching in and the creative process to make a hit record ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper, coolest podcast on the world. And I got my man Court with me. And I'm just overjoyed, incredibly happy to be bringing a rapper who I was listening to so much when I was like 19, 20, back in the prime of my life. Cassidy's albums were definitely a very, very significant soundtrack around that time. So it's amazing to have you in here, man. Appreciate you, man. Thanks a lot, man. Cutting it did it without you.

You one of the reasons why I got the success I got. That's real, man. I couldn't find it today, but like the first BMX video ever edited myself, I remember I used AM to the PM as the soundtrack. That's hard. Yeah. Yeah, shout out the Neo. He produced that record.

Right. Neo the Matrix. Okay. Yeah, that was a classic right there. Yeah, he from Philly too, where I'm from one of the producers that I was working with, like the whole time back then. Right. So can we go into a little bit of your early days before we even get into A.

Can we talk a little bit about who Cassidy was before you became a rapper or a rap star? I started rapping in the fourth grade. So before that, it wasn't really much to me. I was just a kid. Right. Do you remember any of your rap from the fourth grade? Yeah, I remember my first rap I ever wrote. Can we get that?

Is that cool with you? I mean... It's like, I don't know if the people went ahead, but I was in the fire prevention program and the teacher was going around the program asking people what they want to be when they grow up. Everybody was giving generic answers like a doctor, a lawyer, a cop, or something like that. So when they got to me, I was like, I'm going to be a rapper, just playing around, just, you know what I mean, on some class clown shit.

But the teacher, like, all right, if you're going to be a rapper, write a rap about fire prevention. and come say it to the class and we'll let you know that you could be a rapper or not. And that was the day you rose six minutes. Yeah, exactly. And then the teacher, like, put me under pressure the class, like, oh, so I'm like, oh, snap. So that was the first time I felt obligated to write a rap.

Went home that whole night and was focused on it, got it down, packed, memorized. They came and set it to the class the next day. And they went crazy. They was, like, asking me all these. questions and screaming and responding all crazy and that feeling of being able to think of something write it down and impress people that feeling was um was so crazy that i just said i wanted to be a rapper from that point on so you had never had that experience before of like just being really good at something

and getting the appraise from your your peers at that time um i felt like i was always good at stuff I always got straight days in school Always used to win that like video games Like games we used to play curveball I used to be boxing and slap boxing a lot Always was like super sharp So I was used to doing stuff good But I ain't really feel the same feeling from it

Like people would tell you you was good Like a couple of people But I never really felt the same feeling As I felt when I said that rat And some of the bars were pay attention it's something i like to mention the rules and the safety about fire prevention sOS silence order and speed if you burn you learn and concern then you'll need to listen up because this is all of the acts it's not a hard subject it's a real easy task the fire alarm this

bell gives off a signal boop if you don't then it will awake the house for all to get out if you have a fire escape use it with no doubt and make sure your family Family members are just safe because you can replace a house but not a human face. And don't smoke in bed. It's not a joke. You'll be dead. And listen to the rhymes that Barry B said. Before I end, before I retire, one more thing.

If your clothes catch fire. Stay calm. Keep control. Drop to the ground. Spin and roll. Rolling spin over and over again. It's my fire prevention rapping is done, my friend. Oh, my God.

Fourth grade. You was not in fourth grade. I find that hard to believe, man. My first rap. Same. If I was your teacher, I would have started a record label right there than there. I would try to sign your ass. That's crazy.

Appreciate you, man. That's wild. Okay, so what were you listening to, though? Who were the goats to you when you were at that age? So many, man. My mom and my dad both rap before I was born. So I came up on hip hop. So.

everybody from the older cats like grandmaster cash and you know what I mean and Melly Mell to Big Daddy King KRS 1 Rakim like special ed um biz Marky school E-S-T uh school E-S-Coo-Coo-Cute D steady B Yeah. So this is making me realize that you've got many years

in the game ahead of me because like, you know, I feel like it must be kind of crazy to have been in the rap game for so long because so many of those names are people that even me at almost 40, I really started listening to rap like around the time that like Snoop and Dre came in.

You know? So it's like for me before that, it's like I know about it, I can read about it and stuff but I didn't experience it while it was happening. Yeah. I mean, I was still young too. I mean, a lot of them dudes

was doing stuff before I was born. But like I said, my mom and my dad rapped before I was born, so I just was in the culture. I just was studying the people that came before me, the people that was popping at that time. You know what I'm saying? So I was caught up into all of that.

I would say more of my time when I was like super a kid, Will Smith first album was out. He had Philly on Smash, especially for the kids. And I was like a super kid. you know what I'm saying um but as I started to get older like you know I mean that's when big started to you know take over and was crazy and popping then Nas like so um like early Jay-Z the Wu-Tang clan like when they first started to pop like that's like my childhood when

I was a teenager and making the transition from like the younger rap like in Will Smith and and MC Hammer and just like in dance, whatever. Like, you know, I mean, to really understanding lyrics better being in the street so I could understand the street talk that rappers was done and that's when I really started the dissect music a little more. Right. Yeah, so you were outside, to say the least, as a young guy?

For sure. What was your environment like? Like, were you seeing wild shit from a super young age? And was hip hop like, you couldn't separate it from that? Or was there a time period where hip-hop was this like completely separate thing and whatever was going on outside was its own thing. Yeah, when I first started rapping in the fourth grade, I ain't connect the streets with rap.

It was just all about, it was like an art. It was just like, you know what I mean? Something I love and I wanted to do. And I wasn't in the streets yet. I was in the fourth grade. So I wasn't really, you heard that fire prevention rap. That wasn't like a street rap. That was like a kid rap.

A lot of these drill rappers, we couldn't get them to write a fire prevention. rap, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah. They don't got the range. Yeah, for sure. They do fire promotion. Them niggas start fires.

Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, as I got older, though, and I started to get more into the streets, that's when I started to listen to more street rappers, like G-rap, like early Scarface. And, like, them dudes was, like, showing me how to, like, really talk that street shit. So where are we in terms of age with this period of, like, listening to G rap and all of them. It's just like middle school, high school.

Like elementary school. Also, so from fourth to fifth grade, you got into all of the street shit? That's hard, man. Like, and then in the middle school, I started getting more on the street shit. You know what I mean? And by the time I was, like, 14 and 15 years old is when I started really being, like, outside, really getting involved in shit. So I started making a transition from, like, the rappers I used to like,

to liking street rappers because I understood them better. I knew what they was talking about and I could relate better. And I was really like cannabised out. They had a tape with like half cannabis, half DMX. Ironically, I got down with Roughriders, which is DMX label. Right. I mean, but I didn't know him at that time. I just had the tape.

And I was super locked in the cannabis side because he was super lyrical and punching and using figurative language. And it's the first person I heard. doing it like um not doing it all together but of that magnitude like back-to-back figurative language like soon as you catch it one thing he probably than said something else he don't even give you time to sit with shit even his name is a bar so i understand that yeah so i was super impressed with that back in the day it's probably impossible for people to understand the level of hype that there was around cannabis at a certain point because he was supposed to be like the lyrical god rapper at a certain point and then it if it did kind of feel like that whole l-l beef kind of fuck shit up or slowed it down at least for a while

there yeah what he said 99% of your fans don't exist like that was crazy yeah he got out of that's a whole thing yeah the whole white clap angle of and everything lyrically he a genius so you know he wanted the dudes that inspired me but i wanted to like do what he was doing using a bunch of figurative language, punching crazy, talking crazy, and saying that I wanted to battle all the time, but mix it with the street dudes that I like that was talking that street talking, using street words and different type of vocabulary. So I wanted to, like, combine all of that together, and that's what I did, and that's the style that I came out with. And every since then, it's like, you know, people have been trying to do it, but you ain't had nothing like it, like,

super lyrical like the backpackers like you know i mean before they used to use vocabulary in words that street niggas couldn't even relate to and the street niggas were so street that the lyrical niggas ain't like them but i figured out a way to bring that together where i'm like super lyrical and i'm in the street yeah when i was listening because like your first two albums are like the ones that have the the biggest like imprint in my mind at that time you know and i listened to both them over the weekend and i was just trying to like place myself in terms of like hip hop flow history because I know that your shit sent like when I first heard it it just sounded so solid and so hard and so like I don't know there was like a structure to it

in the sense like and it's it's really it's very similar the way that you speak where you speak like very measured and like there's a there's like a cadence to it and like there's always like a consistency in your raps where it's like no matter what you're saying it's like you always I guess you can say you always like choose the correct number of syllables per bar and stuff you never try to over stuff it you let the you let the beat breathe a little bit you're not scared to take a little bit of space in between bars i don't know it's like i was just really thinking like about how how much it stood out to me especially when i first heard you appreciate that man um yeah that's something that i'm dedicated to like you'll never hear me going off for um one syllable like i never rhyme one syllable and

You never heard me like go for four to eight bars or piecing up one syllable. I don't care how deep the thought is. I just don't do that. Like I've been piecing up syllables since I first came out. Like, you know what I mean when they first heard me on Rough Riders compilation volume two or when you first heard me on big business. That record I was piecing up since then. And using figurative language and punching.

That's why the first bar that I ever came out with was like, to the masses was I got a large house, a dog house in my backyard, and even my dog house got a backyard. That's like the first two bars of the rap. And when I say that, it's like people still could remember it to this day, like it's a chorus or something. And that's, like, difficult to do. And that was my intentions to make impressions on people with bars and lyrics like that.

Yeah, as far as like the multicellabic shit, I haven't heard anyone do it. At the time when you started doing it or when you came out, nobody was doing it like that since where I came. I remember when I was younger, I'm much younger than you guys, y'all some old-ass niggas, niggas. I mean, that the most respectful way, but y'all read the newspaper and shit.

I delivered him. Oh, that's hard. Well, and I remember when you said, I forgot what it was the line before that, but it was like, try box, you'll get shot while your fist swinging, and I'm just like, yo, that's crazy. This nigga hits so many parts of the word

where it's like, a lot of people throw away words like words may seem insignificant but with your style of rapping there is no insignificant word everything is useful like you get as much out of the word like how Indians used to skin the whole animal

and break down the bones and use them as spoons and shit that's what was cool to me yeah and I always wanted to do it and talk for them that's why people say when they hear me talk is just like listening to my music it's the same way because I don't like to put words together that I would never

really like use in a sentence or I wouldn't say it like that is like some people lyrical but they use words and make words rhyme that you would never hear and it's like I don't like that I don't like when people rap

like how you don't talk yeah like I like for you to rap exactly how you talk make your point but just make it rhyme and like put a lot of figurative language and shit in it

but make it like conversation way yeah like I like a lot of the drill rappers and the younger rappers and stuff. But sometimes when I hear them just rapping so fast, and it just kind of feels like they don't put any kind of importance into their sentences. You know, like it just doesn't feel like it's important enough to them, for them to stress, you know, like having like real kind of complexities to what they're saying

or whatever. And sometimes that just really makes me feel like we've lost something in the sense where it's so easy to put music out and there's so much music coming out that the younger generation, and I hate to sound like old head, but they just don't. that it just don't care as much as it was normal to care at a certain point when we were younger. Yeah. And because of that technology and because they could put music out, they, like, don't want to go as hard, you know what I'm saying?

Because before you felt like you had to be a certain level of, like, douteness to even get a deal or get heard or get on. But now anybody felt like, yo, I could just make a song and put it out. It don't even matter. Then you hear a lot more artists that you wouldn't have heard back in the day because they would have never had backing management. They would have never got a deal when they would have never had enough money for you to ever hear them. But now with these new platforms and the way music is, you're hearing a lot of artists that ain't go through artist development that you shouldn't even be hearing yet. Not saying they're not talented or they don't got something to bring to the table, but they ain't get developed yet.

Like, you know, I signed my first deal when I was 17 years old, but I ain't come out with my first album until I was 21 years old. So that's like, you know, years and years like going to college of grinding. So let us know about the buildup to you signing. What was that like? Because you were, I mean, I didn't realize you signed at 17. Like that's so young that you probably were still just a kid, like didn't really have too much experience. Like how'd they find you? And then it's ups and downs to that technology.

Like imagine if I had this social media stuff when I was 17. Oh, yeah. I was super nice. So I could have got online and went viral and everybody was going crazy. But as far as the other steps, like making music and the business and all of the other stuff that I was uninformed about, I would have had to learn right away. And that's like impossible to do. So I feel like that's what's hurting us right now. It's like advantages and disadvantages because you're not getting no.

that's developed and going through the right process to get dope. That's true. Definitely. So, okay, sorry for kind of interrupting there. But in terms of what it took for you to sign, like, what was the actual process like? Oh, yeah. Well, I guess the first process was I was on my block rhyming. One of my friends, still my friend, his name Scooby.

He heard me rhyming on the block. And he's like, yo, you sound crazy. I want to introduce you to my uncle. And his uncle was, rest in peace. William Hart, the lead singer of the Delphonics. It's like one of the biggest groups ever, but they like, from Philadelphia. He, the lead singer and was writing all of the songs. So he started managing me and giving me advice about the industry,

and that's how I first started to get, like, information about it. But he had a son named DJ Romance that worked on the Radio One station in Philly, told me about another DJ on that station that was doing a show called DeCypha. I entered in the cipher started winning for months at a time so much that they had to retire me and made me a radio personality to host other people ciphers. But this was before social media, so everybody knew my voice and the name the ball B, but they ain't know what I looked like or my age or nothing really. So I wanted to be in the streets and connect that voice that they heard on the radio every day to me.

So that's when I started battling crazy and going through. crazy in the streets for like a year of time. And after that, that period of time, I met TD, the negotiator, that Swiss beats biological dad. But he came to Philly in the barbershop because they used to live in Philly back in the day. So they'd be passing through a lot. While he was passing through, he stopped in a barbershop and was asking about who's hot and who got bars. And my barber told him, my barber name was Sharp. He told him about me and then called me. And then called me to the barbershop. I came through, start rhyming for him, made a super impression on him. He took my information, and he the one that called me to meet his brother's D&Y. The CEO is

a rough riders. I met them. You know, they put me through, you know, they put me through the, like, the grind of the battles and, you know, unexpected shit just to see how I can handle the, you know, I mean the pressure, but I stood tall and then I got signed not too long after that, but I was in a three-man group called Larsonie Family, me, Shiz Lansky, and Kyle Akbar. I was like a solo artist, but I just bought them from the city with me and we just act like we was a group and got a deal together. So I remember when Twitter first came out and he was on there as Cassidy Larsonie. Is that a part of what that was or?

Larsonie family ever since. Yeah, well, that's my social media, Cassidy underscore Larsonie. Larsonie is like a family. Larsonie family is like a bunch of people. But Larsonie was an actual group, the three-man group that I was signed to Rough Riders with. Well, my first deal was in a three-man group, and we was called Larsonie.

That's cool. For sure. So the boot camp element to it, like that's the thing that people always complain that artists don't get these days is like, oh, there's no artist development. Like, you know, labels just sign artists, let them go,

keep doing what they're doing and then if something pops then they get to participate in it and otherwise it's just whatever to them but if like i've heard that story too because i remember listening to a gin interview and him kind of having that same conversation about rough riders where he signed and then it was just years and years of him recording music and working at his shit before he got a chance to drop an album they were real serious about that mentality of like they were gonna make you as good as you could possibly be before they presented you to the world yeah it was that in as um it's a business like you know i'm saying in order to put artists out you need budgets you need like a major over top of the production deal with roughriders so you know they had big artists like

dmx and he was going through like death jam and then they had the locks and eve and drag and different people was going through different labels some was in the scope some was like different places but they had majors who was putting up the money for them to come out but when you sign of that production company, you don't really got no budget yet. So you got to prove yourself or create some type of energy to make somebody want to give you a budget or make them focus on you to go get you a budget. So I think that's where Jim was at. Like he must have needed to make the right records. You know, they probably believed in him ahead of time because he had bars and he was Asian. And just imagine if you could get all of the people from where he from or just a small percentage.

of them to lock in and support. It could be a crazy look. So I think that was the initial plan. But, you know, once they started creating the records, I guess he probably couldn't get it how he wanted it, and that's why he was waiting. Did Rough Riders feel like a family at that time, or was it more like a business situation?

Like, did you feel like you were a part of that, or was it more like you're kind of just on the bench, like trying to become part of it? Both. I felt like, I felt like a family I felt the family vibes we was family

like it was like you could feel the family vibe in a lot of ways but also it was a business too and you had to work for your way and it's like nobody could really put attention on you if we're working on DMX album

right you know what I'm saying nobody could really put attention on you if we're about to release Eve album after she dropped one of them crazy big single she had. It's like it's difficult for, no matter how hot you is, it's like they really super lit and they already got a history and already known to be able to make records.

And you just fresh and new. So to get their attention is difficult and it takes ground and it take work. So when I realized that I was in a three-man group, but I realized that we might be stuck or not really be able to release nothing crazy unless we made some people. type of impact. So that's when I went on another battle run. Like, yo, nobody could come through hair. I don't care if they sign, not sign old, young, like, come in, smiling, coming with a frown in their face. I don't care. I'm not letting nobody come around me and say they rap and not hear this. And if I do that, then it's going to create a situation for me because everybody going

going to hear about me, be talking about me, and it's going to create something for me. And that's what happened after i started going on that running battling everybody and destroying everybody and the freeway battle was just like the apex of all that um oh yeah it was like yeah it was like one of the well it was towards the end because that's when i had a deal with j records and the budget was opening up and i was about to go on and do stuff anyway but that was like the icing on the cake that's like we'll push things forward and um made everything like, you know, go according to plan. But the freeway battle happened back in the day before the internet.

So it was originally on VHS team. And the DJ got a hold of it and recorded the audio and put it on CD. So most of the people around the world just heard the audio and was playing it on CD. I'm pretty sure I remember like reading about it in the source before I ever heard it. Yeah. And it took a long time for people to even know that it was a video. And when they knew it was hard to get it. Like, it was a couple people that had access to the VHS tape, but not really.

And it didn't really get more popular into the Internet started than YouTube came out. Then they redroped, they re-aired, and then people got a chance to see it. You know what I mean? Yo, like, did you know for a fact you had him when he was like, put a beat on? You can't put the beat on? Nah, I knew. I'm from, we from the same city. Like, I'm from Philly.

and I was fans of state property like I used to listen to their music and I was happy that they got in position with Rockefeller so I was already tuned in I already knew like how they rap and everything and they was just on the radio

I was going to the McDonald's while they was on the radio so I'm listening to them rap and telling everybody that nobody can't fuck with them and they the best and whoever wanted to battle and call up and bet money and all this stuff so it seemed like they was talking

to me even though they wasn't. So I was familiar with you know the whole team and how they rap and I didn't think that they was going pick free like free super dope like I mean his first album is like a classic and all that but I knew just like battle rap

style with no beat and just getting straight to the point and punching he didn't do that. He got sometimes an in and out rhyme pattern like he might rhyme on the one and the third and it's like that's fire on beat because you could catch it but off beat just battle rap style it might be difficult to make an impression so i thought

they was going to pick somebody else so when they pick free i just knew what was going to be a easy a easy battle you know i'm saying because he's not like really like you know that type of rapper so that's why during the whole battle i'm like man thinking that they're going to replace free with somebody else like after a couple rounds they're going to be like all right and let somebody else jump in. Who else were you preparing for in your head, though? Everybody. Everybody.

Like when Jay Z was talking crazy, I just prepared for all of the possibilities. Man, Jay could not have put his title on the line at that time. That would have been crazy as fuck. Imagine he gets his ass whoop by Cassidy in there, a brand new rapper. That would be like, I mean,

the freeway battle was legendary. But if Jay had to step to you, that would have been fucking nuts, regardless of how it went. Damn. Shout out to Jay. was just unfamiliar with who I was. It's like when Beans and them came in the room, they knew me.

They knew like a little bit about me. They was like listening to that sci-fi. I told you that radio show that I was winning for months and months. Like Beans and everybody was listening to that, so they know what I was capable of. But Jay-Z wasn't aware. He just thought I was just a regular little. And people think I look young now after all this time. So imagine how I looked 20 years ago.

Yeah. I'm just there. He probably like, man, kill his nigga. You look younger than me right now. And I was going to ask you if at any point in your life did you just say, yo, fuck this, the beard ain't coming. Yeah, for sure. It's just not for you?

Yeah, or it won't grow. No, my beard don't, like a whole beard don't grow on my feet. That's what I got. Do you regret that in any way? At a certain point, sometimes you'd be around like 20 dudes and you realize everybody has a beard. It definitely is like a young look To not rock a beard as you get older

I'm happy I don't Got a deal with shaving And going through all of that And you know what I'm saying And then I got the type of face That I'm cool without a beard Like some dudes

Look crazy when they young But then when these bear come in They get a like a hide A lot of their weirdness of their face So it makes it look better That was me bro When I ain't had his beard It was a wild ugly nigga bro

But the big kind of chucked the ugly. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? When I see old photos in me where I was real fat and I don't have a beard, I get disgusted by it. But when I see old photos right out of the beard, it's like, all right, well, at least you're covering that shit up, you know? Yeah. So that's why I don't really, I'm happy.

I don't got, you know, a lot of facial hair. And it's like beneficial. The older do you get, it just keep you looking younger. Right. So make you last longer when people, when you look like how people can remember you whenever was the last time they checked in. Right. It's crazy, though, too, because when you think of Philly,

you think of a huge percentage of the dudes just having big-ass beards. Yeah, that's like the Philly thing. Yeah, the city is definitely known for the bards. Yeah, for sure. The beards in the building. Most of my homies, that's all you're going to see is big bards, but not me, though.

Forever young. For sure. So, okay. Yeah, my son's got more facial hair than me. Damn. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and it's just, it ain't, it ain't me. The other day I did an interview with DJ Drama

and I had been watching another interview he did on a math office shit and I noticed that he had like his beard had clearly been like died You know like he got a dark ass beard But then when I'm sitting there doing the interview with him Because I was about to say something I was like you think I should start dye my beard Because I got hella gray's in my beard And then in the interview his shit looked mad

Much more human you know Like it didn't look as pitch black as it looked in that other interview side And say nothing about it Yeah Yeah, he got to fix that shit Bro. It's a hell of die. How dare you?

That's my man. He's a legend, but still. Yeah, that's another thing. I don't know where they come from. If it comes from stress, if it's just genetics, if it's what. But I know people while younger than me

and they got a lot of gray coming in all over the place. And then I'm like, oh, they'll probably been through a lot of shit that could stress you out and I don't got them. I got a Vlad interview from, like, 2019, where my beard is black,

like dark as fuck and I had never died it in nothing and then I look at myself a few years later it's like damn I'd see the gray's or for real so the fentany though I told you about that shit fuck out of here it's the wisdom though man you know everybody don't even make it to get gray so that's a blessing that's very true

so after that battle what was the tension like in the room like did it feel like everybody in the room knew exactly how it went oh for sure and I made sure and all I remember is Beanie Why the fuck you stop? Free, why the fuck you stop?

I remember that type of energy. It was like Everybody knew what happened. Yeah. And then they all left. Like all of the like beans, Oskino, Chris, Free, they all left after the battle was over

but Jay Z had to stay. It was a Mary J. Blige session. Jay Z rapped on Swiss did the beat. So that's the reason why we was all there. was working on the beat when Jay-Z came to change the verse up. And when he introduced me as the dopes nigga out, Jay-Z felt some type of way about it and called his artist there to prove that I wasn't.

Wow. You know what I'm saying? So that's how it all went down. That's crazy. But after the battle was over, they still had to work on the record that they was working on. So everybody else left, but I was still there with Jay. And he let me know, like, all right, I ain't,

you did your thing. Like, you know what I'm saying? I doubted you, you know what I didn't think you was like, you did your thing? and I'm saying, show me love and all that. And that was a good look. Like, you know, man? I was a fan of Jay-Z before I even thought I was going to get a deal

with start rapping and all that, really. You know what I mean? Not when I thought I was not before the fourth grade, but before I thought I was going to really get signed and being in a business and all that, I was locked into his music, studying his shit to get better. Right.

So it's like, you know, I felt like that was an accomplishment for him to, you know, doubt me at first, and then after the battle was wrong. over change his perspective. But that shit didn't turn into you having like real problems with them or nothing like that. It was just rapping shit.

Nah, no real problems. You know what I mean? Just battle rap. I mean, us just both being competitive, just trying to get in position. You know what I mean? Just being hungry at the time. I never even met Freeba before that. And he didn't even know me. So it was just like us representing our teams at the time.

I'm over here, rough riders, for the surface, he over there, Rockefeller, and we just representing for both our teams. You know what I mean? That happens a lot, though. I was well to say it's common for people to do that because I know Diddy was putting Shine on a couple niggas, like to battle

him. Like, I remember Sean battled with my son. But then, like, everybody had that one person that was they spitter. I think he was like, yo, can't nobody touch my dude right here? He's next up. Not even next. He's right now. So I understand that. So that was your role. like the Swiss camp or the Rough Riders camp.

Like Swiss was the one sending you to battle more than anybody else, correct? Or was it like a D, Y Swiss thing? I mean, Swiss wasn't really sending me to battle. It was more like, you know, yeah, like D, Y, the Rough Riders times. But me and Swiss, when I was signed to Swiss and we was around each other, I've been in some battles. Like, it's times when I could be working on my project. I got budgets open or like, you know,

I'm really like working on music now in the industry and we get calls. Remember the time, Buster called me. Yo, I got some nigga in the studio. Call it Swiss, bring them through. We go there is Buster, Rydigger, all of these, like, you know what I'm saying? People from Flipmoor Squad, the studio all filled up.

And, um, they bring an artist in there for me to battle. It was like stuff used to happen like that all of the time. Right. You know I mean? We've lost so much. This is like impossible to imagine CEOs doing that at this point because they just, they just would know. Like, think about what a high stakes game you're playing right there. If you're Jay-Z and you've got an artist and you think that they are going to have a big fucking career

and you put them up against a rapper who you don't know what they're going to say. You don't know if they're going to humiliate them. You know, that's like a very high-stakes fucking hand to poker for two rap CEOs to be playing. It's very easy for me to understand why that is not really in vogue anymore. Yeah, that's what Dane Dash told me. He went time he was having a conversation and he said that

same thing, same thing you said. Yeah. He said if he was there, he wouldn't have let it go down. Yeah. Because if I had an artist sign to me, the last thing I'd want to do is,

you know, you want to control their image. You don't want to take chances and put them up against people. Like maybe if you don't have anything invested in it, it could be cool. But if you've invested money

into this guy and you have to really believe in him, hell no, I'm not letting them go up against... The only way to control that back in her days just to put that in the contract no battle rapping no nothing because back in them days son that shit was like Pokemon like you ever play Pokemon

you see another nigga that's a Pokemon train that you gotta battle him that's how rapping that's how rapping used to be right I used to walk around with his raps in my pocket spitting his raps just because you had to be on point it can be something from a whole not like I'm from the projects I'm from Fort Green let's say some dude from Sumner which is a few blocks up if he's seen me he recognized me as somebody you're at wraps

and he asked you to battle I gotta battle him like you know how out here they say turn down no fades yeah in Brooklyn it was turned down no no battles yeah yeah cyphers all that shit

you had the niggas with the army caps on wrapping out pyramids and shit like that the super miracle lyrical niggas and you had the spitters and him I feel like he's the person that invented

the heavy consecutive punchline rap style like that goes without say nobody was doing that shit like Cass when I was like 12 years old I was listening to so much show you a shit

it bro. I appreciate it. And it's like yin' the gang too. Like, you know, the same way like I battle rap now and some people want to see you win and a lot of people want to see you lose because you're talking so crazy. It's the same way in the industry. Like once people get familiar with you and heard about all of the rappers that you might have battled a kill or you might have came to their studio and killed somebody now and they either want to see you win again or they want to see somebody that could potentially beat you. So the words start. going out, you start looking for people that could potentially do something with me. So it's like people can't believe that I was having a lot of battles, but I can.

Everybody was trying to find somebody that could potentially beat me. And anytime they thought that they had something, people was bringing them to the table. And they was getting killed. And that's how you could tell that nobody came to the table and did what they were supposed to do successfully because you would have definitely heard about it. Did it feel like that put the pressure on? where it was like, all right, we got to actually drop Cass's project and shit after that shit happened? No, because...

Before the first album, right? Yeah, but it wasn't out. Like, it wasn't out, so it wasn't like a response. And then they like, oh, now we got to put it out because it's like lit or viral or something. Yeah, yeah. But it helped create momentum, right? I guess you could say, I mean, there's certain people in the industry that was aware of it. I guess it created some type of momentum.

On split personality. it was like the first half of it was more like radio records and then the second half was the more hardcore rap shit yeah how much of that was your idea versus was that the label kind of pushing that on you because you're kind of in both worlds at that time where you obviously had the ability to make hit records and then you also had the ability to do all this lyrical shit and real street rap or whatever um what was that conversation like or how did you end up on the concepts of almost making it like a split project it definitely was the label and the people that I was involved with telling me I need them type of records and I wasn't really signed to like a super

hip-hop label it was like J records they specialize in like pop music like top 40 music so they wanted to figure out how I could get a top 40 record that's where they would be strongest at um so that's the reason why I made the first album the first two singles was hotel and get no better so I told I came from a battle background. Everybody calling me to the studio to battle the best lyricists, and that's what I'm known for, going crazy on everybody and lyrical and never stop rapping. I'm known for that, and then your first time you come out,

and even when I got opportunities, like on Rough Rada Rada Rada, Rada, Volume 2, I went crazy. Rough Rada Rada, Rada, Volume 3. Went even more crazy. Your Stiles told me to come back again, and I spit again. So people know me for going crazy,

on them compilations. Then I told you big business. I got a large house. So everybody like, yo, he about to get go crazy. This nigga is super lyrical. And then your first single is Hotel with R. Kelly. So it's like a big, big record. Everybody love it. But it wasn't like the same person that they was used to. And then the follow up to that was get no better, which is like more like hotel, like similar, like the same type of direction. So it's like my my core audience like, yo, what is he doing? He going in a whole different direction. And then a bunch of people in the world that really knew me,

like the main people starting to know me now, think that I just make records like Hotel and get no better. They don't think I got bars. They don't think I got another bag I could jump in. So it was like a little confusing. And that's why I fought for my second album, the first single to be a record like I'm a hustler. Yeah, oh, that was my song, man.

I was like so young, just doing. at this stuff. But yo, like, that was also the one for the ladies era with all the labels, they didn't give a hell who you were. You needed one for the radio, one for the ladies, and all that stuff. So, like, how hard was it for you to, like, push the button or something like, I'm a hustler? I just felt like I needed to. The first two, the first two singles was Hotel and Get No Better, both directed towards the ladies, but none directed towards the streets or me being there or the side of me that people really knew. So I wanted to do a record that could show that side.

But still be commercial and still be catchy and still, you know, be a big record. But the label I was with ain't necessarily believe in a, I'm a hustler type record. Like they would believe in a hotel type of record, you know what I mean? What about the sample? How much shit did they give you for the sample? Oh, I'm a hustler? Not necessarily for the,

the sample it's just like the the sample what it was saying it's like nigger acts nigger nigger acts about me nigga nigger acts about me six diggers in the hook is crazy yeah and they like yo we ain't even to the fourth bar and look how many times we had the count and how many edits is going be and how's we going to push this how we going to get it played it don't sound like a radio record at all like you know i'm saying it sounds like the radio a hater record like that but I just know the culture like not based off business or paperwork or statistics from history. I know the real culture like the feel of it. You know what I mean?

And I felt like that was mandatory. And that's why it's like my biggest record. First platinum ringtone. My first platinum record, it took off. And I was like locked up when that album came out. So if I ain't go through that case, that record could have even been bigger than that. Like the whole promo tour for I'm going. hustle I was locked up for.

Right, and it's like, that shit was crazy especially because it feels like it's like Jay-Z endorsing you on the hook, you know, which, you know, obviously it's just you using it, but it feels like you're using it to talk about yourself. And then you almost kind of even diss him on the song by using his line against him and saying, you know, or Nas's line, I guess, and saying, you know, he made it a hot line, I made it a hot song. Like, if there was ever a sample that I could imagine a rapper, wanting to turn down, I would not have been surprised if Jay Z had turned down the use of that sample just because there's a couple different factors going on there, and especially given the

history that you got a W over his artist years before. Yeah, but it's just, I don't know, man. Mother nature, she created a way. But I was just speaking the truth, man. And I'm a super fan of Naz, super locked into the culture. So it was just like a way to flip, you know, words that was already to use. the way that I was doing it now. And I did make it into a high song.

I'm a hustler. It's a classic. Do you know how much money you made off the ringtones on that? That was a long time ago, I ain't sure, but it definitely made me something. You're probably chopping it up with a label at that time too, right? Yeah, I was signed to G Records, and I was signed to Full Surface.

That was my production company. Right, definitely. So when you look back at like... And it splits, you know, if you're talking about the hotel song, it's split between me, the producer with your Swiss beats, and then you got R. Kelly on it. Right. And they are already legends, and I'm just a new artist.

That's my first single. Right. So the publishing is not going to leave more towards me. I'm a hustler. You got Swiss beats, the producer, and then you got this sample that was a recent JZ song. Very recent. I was going to ask you about that.

Yeah, it was like, what, a couple years after the original came out? It was so crazy. I'd never see, I didn't know you could do that. I thought samples only counted if it was 15 years and like further back. But then I hear him come out with this Jay-Z song and it's like, bro, this came out like 16 months ago. Like this is amazing. Information warfare. And it's a good song too.

Normally, if you try to sample something that's so new, you're going to make some bullshit. But I'm a hustler. had the streets on a lot. I've seen some of these Lincoln navigators with spinning rims while I was listening to that shit, bro.

That was everything in Brooklyn, you know. Shift the culture a little bit, that record. You know, a lot of people started. I felt like I shifted the culture a lot of times. When I came with a hotel

and get no better in them girl type record, you started to see a lot of artists do that. Then when I came with the, I'm a hustler vibe, it's changed it again, and then you've seen a lot of people

start sampling like that. start using that, B per minute, that bop. You know what I'm saying? It just, I think it's just historical, you know what I mean? Some people got hot records momentarily, but don't make no shift in the culture. It's crazy because, like, at that time, there was just such a massive difference between what was hot as a street record and what was hot on, like, a radio record. Whereas now, it's like if the label signs a young street artist or whatever,

will they try to get them to make, like, you know, more commercial stuff maybe a little bit? But for the most part, you're used to rappers like popping off with shit that's very true to their sound. You know, whereas back then it was like the labels were just doing so much manipulation to try to get street rappers to make different types of songs. And it's just, I don't know, it was such a different era because of that.

I agree in certain ways, but I disagree. I feel like back then more people had the original sound. They had their own producers. Like, even though they might try to tell you, like, yo, we need a radio record, or we need that. Like, they just go on by statistics. They can't tell you how to put it together

or tell you how to make it up or formulate it. So people had their own producers, their own team, they own even mix engineers. Like, this is the person that mix and match the our stuff. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, everybody had their own team and they own sound. You hear a beat. You're like, oh, that's this.

That came from this group. Now it's like everybody using the same producer. Everybody using the same mix engineer or the same program to mix day records. It's like you can't tell nothing apart. Nobody got a distinctive sound like back in the day. So even though they might stay true to what they want to do, they copycat and they don't got no development to be unique.

They just following what came before them. And that's why you're starting to see a lot of people all sounding the same. And I think like when people do come out with some type of distinction, they pop off. Like look at like L'Ollula. Like look at her voice. It's like easy to pick her out from anybody else. So you might not like it.

Some people love it. But regardless, it's like distinctive. It's like unique. So when you hear it is like, oh, and even the way she's flowing to the beat is different. So it's like something new to people air. And people like the hair something new, especially the time we're at now because bars is back. People tired of getting, you know, spoon fed the same stuff over and over again when they know it's wild. stuff that we can have out there.

Right, definitely. There's some crazy stuff coming out of Philly, though. Because, like, I mean, I'm sure you've seen it. Like, Uzi is obviously taking his sound in some wild-ass directions. I don't know if you know about too rare, but he's kind of on that, like, you know, super fast-paced, like, club jersey drill type stuff. And I was wondering, like, what you thought about some of the more experimental sonic stuff that's been coming out lately because it's so, it's kind of like so far away from,

like, where we think of as hip-hop. but obviously the kids are going crazy for it and they love that super fast BPM and shit. I think it always been like that. Kids like the dance and have fun, you know what I mean? So whatever the beat per minute was that the dances went to back when we was young, you loved it. They didn't have to be lyrical. It ain't have to be that dope long as you could dance to it and go crazy. And it's the same thing now.

Like they ain't never going to change. Kids are always want to dance. And they're not going to want to seem like they reminiscing when they do dance. Like we dance in the same way my parents did. Like we got our own new way we dance. And that's why the beats per minute change. Yeah. But I don't got no problem with this new form of music.

I'm happy with it. And I think it's dope and it's super nice that, you know what I'm saying? All of these kids finding their own lane, I think we just need to figure out different names for the different forms of music that's being done. We can't call it all hip-hop. Can't call it all rap. Like, because it's not. Like, it's like different forms of music that all of these people doing and it needs its own name.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just like somebody telling you, it's like basketball, but there's different types of basketball. Like, you can't put high school, college, NBA, and one all together and just say it's all just the same basketball. It's like, nah, it's different kinds of ways of basketball. You got to figure it out. And that's one thing I always noticed with rap is that. rap is very resistant to like just having different genres rather than just calling it rap because he knows a little bit about metal myself you know listen to some punk throughout my life and stuff and

it's like those genres they love dividing the shit up and saying this is death metal and this is black metal and this is grind and this is you know pop punk and this is punk and this is crust punk and like they love coming up with like different distinctions that are you know pretty close but there's clear differences you know and it's like yeah rap is kind of resistant to that but I also do feel like with a lot of the drill stuff like when I talk to like the young artist in New York they'll be like yeah you know I was made like I was talking to her girl she was like I used to be making like hot girl music and then I switched over to making drill music and it's weird how I know exactly what she's talking about she's talking about making like make the stalion shit

versus oh I'm smoking on so-and-so music and I know I could just perfectly picture it in my head and to her those are like the two choices when she was coming in the game you know yeah this shit's kind kind of wild yeah it's crazy yeah definitely but I feel like um We're in a good place, man. With technology, you could listen to anything now. Like, you don't got to just listen to the radio. Or, like, even when 106 and Park used to come on them same 10 videos, used to keep playing over and over again.

So you just had to, like, whatever you liked out of them 10. I remember being young and going to, like, New York or D.C. or whatever and putting on the radio when I'm real young, and they would just play the same hot song, like, seven fucking times in a row over and over and over. and I just remember being really confused because where I grew up they did not do that but also just fucking hating it because it's like I don't want to listen

to the most popular song eight times in a row I want you to play me some different shit but I mean when you really think about the radio and just the media landscape that we lived in early on hip hop wise it is pretty fucking crazy you ever look through an old source or double XL and it's like the artists they're writing about

are the exact same artists that are advertising in the magazine or like the labels that advertising on every page of the magazine. That's just kind of crazy when you look at what that relationship was like at that time. Thanks. Yeah, Casti, I want to ask you a question about a specific song that you was on.

It didn't. It wasn't so popular in like the charts, but the shit went platinum on line wire. Six minutes. Yeah. What was on your mind? Like, who went first? Like, as far as the right in,

did you hear anybody else's shit when you did it? Like, tell me. you about that experience like being on that song um i felt like bars was coming back then like i'm saying bars is back now and i can feel it i felt like bars was on the way back then so i tapped into some dudes that i knew was getting busy at the time which was lowe wayne i think the car the one was out and um fab he was getting super busy right then back then punching and going crazy I was about to say that Fab was hell of punching at that time. So I'm like, damn, if we came together, you know, I'm from Philly, Fad from New York, Wayne from New Orleans.

That's like three different places, but we both get busy. You know what I mean? Three different accents. Three different ways we're going to tack the beat. You know what I mean? And I wanted it to be like that. I wasn't focusing on no chorus or trying to make what they consider a hit. I just wanted us to get busy and spit, and I knew it would be like a crazy feel.

So I just reached out to him. That wasn't like a label move. Like, I reached out to them myself and put that together. So with all due respect to all parties involved, did you know that you was going to wash these niggas like that, bro? Um, I mean, every time I go in the booth, I'm competitive. Like, you know what I mean? I told you I went in the fourth grade when I wanted to start rapping this

because I wanted to be the best. So I think all artists should be competitive when they're jumping on records together. Not like I'm an intention. throw low blows or do anything like that to try to get over on them but we should all try to do the best we can like rap the best that we possibly can and see how that come out so if another artist is not bringing it you're not going to dim you like somebody just about to get ran over is that correct yeah for sure i don't even focus on the other artists really um it's just like what i feel at the time and how I feel like attacking the beat.

So I just was trying my best. I mean, to do the best that I can, and that's what I wanted them to do. But six minutes is a classic. Like, Wayne went in. I'm sure he got a lot of people around the world that feel like he got the best verse. And I'm saying, Fad went crazy.

There's a lot of people around the world that probably feel like FAB got the best verse. So that's what it's about. And that's why it's good to do, like, features like that because you could cross markets, It could be like some FAB fans that never knew that they was a super cast fan until that record. Yeah. I came in there as a cast fan, but I left listening to Fag or Wayne a lot more because he wasn't, it wasn't like a parent that he was one of the ones at that time that song dropped.

He became an instant voice in the conversation. But like when you dropped that, it really did it expose people from your fan based others and vice versa. So I think that was a smart tactic. I didn't know how it was made, but I'm happy to hear that story, man. Yeah, that was a dope record, man. I'm happy I got to do it. And that's another one from Neo the Matrix. He was talking about AM to the PM.

You did it to that beat. That's another record that Neo the Matrix made classic. A lot of them beats, because I was just down with Swiss, people just think Swiss made every beat. But it was like the producers I was working with two on top of the legendary Swiss. That shit was smart, though, because if you think about it, at least the way I remember it, it was kind of like you, Fabb, and Lloyd Banks were kind of like known as like the punchloid, the punchline Kings at that time.

And then Wayne really came in and became like super, super known for that in a way that like we hadn't really seen rappers from Down Southby. And so just putting that kind of song together and like forcing the people to like see y'all on the same song is like this is a very smart way of like kind of making people think about who's really doing their thing. Yep. Appreciate you. It was like another time I felt like we shifted the culture, man.

And me coming out around that time, I was the one that was going crazy and punching and making it so like making the streets feel it. Like so crazy that once you hear a person rapping like this and doing all this, all this punching and going crazy line after line, when you hear regular rap, it don't make you feel the same. So other rap is new like, yo, in order to survive and hold weight right now, we got to start stepping it up. We got to get more lyrical and start punching more. And that's when you started to see a lot of artists transitioning and started rapping more. Started like getting busy, going crazy. Right. And that lasts for a period of time until it went back to like, you know, dancing.

But okay, there's one song I have to ask about because I always was just kind of fascinated by it. And it worked perfectly too because I got a two-year-old and she's very obsessed with her belly button. She's always just, you know, pointing out her belly button and saying the word belly button. and then I'm listening to the fucking old albums and I hear belly ring and I was just like, damn that was a crazy-ass song. Was that like a song that you conceptualize

or did they sort of give it to you and you just laid a verse on it? Nah, they never gave me no ideas like that. Like maybe tracks or like ideas or who I should like do features with but never like creative ideas. They never like did that.

There's nobody like around capable of doing that other than Swiss, but he gave me my freedom to just be creative. Mm-hmm. I don't know how I came up with that. Lift up your shirt, let me see your belly button, girl. That's hard, man. It was the girl that saw the two singing with me. Do you remember who it was?

Because I tried to find it and I couldn't find it. Yeah, it's a girl that I know TD, my mom. my old manager, his baby mom, little sister. Really? That's who was singing on the song. It's crazy because she says, basically, like, you buy me a diamond ring, and I'm going to show you my belly ring.

I was like, that's a wild compromise. Black-ass trade. Yeah, that's a, that was a little moment, man. I was in my zone, and at that time, too, I was doing a lot of other songs that didn't make them albums. You know what I mean? So depending on the direct. that the label wanted to take me in and depend on the selection of the songs at that time.

Right, definitely. So during those first couple albums and stuff, did you feel like Swiss was 100% behind you or what was your relationship like at that point? Because he's obviously, he's out of this world as well. You're having all this success, but I'm sure he's super busy. Like, how close were you guys? I mean, I always felt like Swiss had my back from the beginning. When he first started his production company, he wanted me as a solo artist.

And every since then we was rocking. And every since we stopped working, he never really had no other artist since then. Like, you know what I mean? I feel like he put me on the pedestal. It felt good to have somebody that you could brag about, say that he the best, and he could really hold it down and stand on it. Like, you know what I'm saying? That's difficult to find.

And that feeling is, like, hard to replace. So I think he always supported me. He gave me wild love and wild opportunities. Like, you know what I mean? Made me a household name. Made me travel the world. Had some big records. Like I told you, my first opportunity to really get out to the world was big business.

And that's a record with Ronald Osley, a legend. Puff Daddy, another legend. Snoop Dog, another legend. Jada kiss, another legend and Swiss beats, another legend. All legends that were super active. that got plaques and wild records sold already. And then me. It's like that was the perfect setup.

It's like the perfect layup, the perfect opportunity for the world to know what I'm capable of. So Swiss did a lot for me. I mean, showed me a lot of love, taught me a lot about making music and creating waves and melodies and how to stay on top of what's popping at the time to know what to do next. And I've just learned a lot from them.

and that's my brother. When's the last time you talk to him? Or what's the relationship like these days? It's still the same. I don't talk to him all the time because he got his life, I got mine. We're not together. Like when we was working together.

I had business going on, but we talk every so often. Texts a lot more than we talk. Like, you know what I mean? I'd be texting them a lot, tapping in, and checking in with him. But I don't know exactly the last time it wasn't like a day ago it was like i mean could you imagine you guys working on music

together again um well we got a lot of unreleased music that we already worked on um even more recently we got back together we was doing some project called the crook and the thief it's like when i went on who kid's show he was there i was rapping and it was like around that time a few years ago and um we was about to put some music together but i don't know i don't know if switzerland even, like I said, since I left Swiss, he never had another artist after me. It's not like he left music. He's still making history, but not in the same way.

And I think he getting money in so many different other ways. I don't even think he got the same interest in music like he used to when I was his artist. So for us to come back together and recreate what we did, I don't even think he even see it as being beneficial right now. That's what I was thinking when you were talking about Jay, like, you know, being in the studios with his artists and calling for other artists and challenges him and stuff.

And I'm like, man, like, Jay gets so much money now that I just cannot imagine him being that personally involved with any of the artist signed to him. And that's, you know, that's what really stands out to me about that freeway battle story is like, damn, that was like Jay-Z before he became a billionaire before he got to the certain level where he just kind of had a million different things to worry about, you know?

Yeah. That's inspiration to me, though. Yeah. Like, and I mean to see people at different levels and just believing in themselves and manifesting stuff and they come in the light. That's facts. So there was this story that went kind of viral a few years back

where you basically, there was like a Rough Rider's tour that you performed at, and you basically had some critical things to say about Uzi and Yadi. What's your recollection of how that went down? And has there been any kind of communication since? That rap was like going to spot at that concert and I seen it back like years ago. I don't remember exactly what I said,

but I think I said I just never chose to listen to them. I didn't say like nothing bad about them. I don't know them. Like I never met them when he ain't got no beef or nothing. It's just that type of music. Like at that time, whatever they had out at that time, I just never like listened to it at that time. Right.

So it wasn't anything personal, just a preference thing? Nah, just me at that time at that place I was at, like, and what I was focused on, I just never listened to their music at that time. But it was really like the big up, like that rat was really to talk about the legends that's like they was like new. You know what I mean? Like when I said that line, it was like super new artists that like I'm trying to say like ain't putting enough. Ain't putting enough for me to even hear them. I don't even like choose to listen to that. But what about the legends?

like the people that's been putting on forever and I start naming all of them other people in that rap so I don't remember the exact words but if you play it back that's what the message was like you know it wasn't personal or they just called it straight it just happened to be the biggest names of the young niggas you can name

at that point yeah that you could recognize what I was trying to say yeah and they rhyme too with what I was piecing up too makes sense what do you listen to these days like do you listen to new rap music or are you listening to class Like what is your

But now I would choose to listen to them Like that was super years ago Like they still around and they still Doing their thing and like you know I'm saying Now I listen to them they got a lot of dope music And proved they self to be You know what I mean? Great artists

Also in that time there was a lot of bullshit to confuse them with Like it was a lot of nigs playing around Like doing mad pills and stuff like that So like you didn't know if this was just another Set of pill niggas or if this was like You know something that's going to be substantial with hip hop. Yeah. So I feel you. And I definitely knew it wasn't like what I was used to is representing hip hop and rap. I knew it wasn't based off lyrics and bars. It was like in another lane. So that's the

real reason why I'm saying I'm not choosing to listen to this. Like how you said they've got all them categories. Like if I'm like hard rock, I'm not choosing to listen to pop rock. It's like I only like hard rock. That's all I listen to. Like, you know what I'm saying? But not nothing against them or like I just wasn't listening to that former hip hop rap at the time. But now it's like, you know, years past, I don't opened up and I don't took it in because they talented for a lot of different reasons. I'm not just basing everything off bars right now. Yeah, definitely.

Because if you think about Uzi at that time, he's like very early in his career, and then when you think of Uzi now, it's like, this is a dude has made so many hit records over and over and over that it's like, you know, I was somebody who was like pretty tuned into him from early on but if I hadn't been you know it's like once you see an artist being popular for a long ass period of time you kind of have to take a step back and just as like a businessman or a observer of the culture you have to be like all right like what does this person have that makes them special enough that they've been able to have this many people be obsessed with them you know

yeah no i understand exactly what he's doing like you know what i'm saying that nigger talented he dope in a lot of ways but i just don't think you should put like the type of music he done in the same category as like what Griselda doing. Like they're not even doing nothing the same. It's like, so to say that they both is just the same, like hip hop and they just both. So an uninformed fan just here it is and here this and here this and think that they got to judge it together and that's not fair. There's nowhere in there the same thing.

Yeah, it's just kind of silly. But so, okay, what do you ride around listening to at this point in your life? I did that myself and my artists I listen to a lot of old school music because I feel like that's like a certain vibe that's inspiring me to like zone out but I listen to a little bit of everything man like I just be telling people

Money Bag Yo is like one of my like one of the artists that I'm listening to like a lot of records from It's like I just like the sound of look at my wrist I got time today fucking them crossing the line today. Like I like when people piece up the accent, the bagging. But I even listen to the new girl Shibuya Road call. Like I'm listening to that. It's like I'm

listening to everything, just taking it in, just seeing what the people like, because I feel like I'm about to drop the best project of my life. So I feel like I need to just be like more in tuned to what's going on. And I think my transition moving to Atlanta, it helped me like, like, incorporate a bunch of different flows and ideas from being out there because it's like a whole different way from where I'm from. The same way I was saying that your your stuff is always extremely structurally strong. I could see that there's somebody like money bag yo too. He really like respects the flow and like his shit always just sounds really on point which I just think is like a huge thing for for artists when they allow themselves to be kind of sloppy with the bars and stuff

it just never really seems like it works out that well. Yeah for sure. I want to to work with all of these artists, man. Like, even like dudes that's not like new, that's established, like Kendrick, Jay Cole, like Drake. Like, you know what I'm saying? Even legendary artists like them that I ain't get to work with, I want to work with them all. I know I get in the studio with anybody I'm going to be able to make history and I'm going to learn something from them and they're going to learn something from me. And I feel like, you know, I'm at that spot with it. So how far are you into this project that you just spoke of.

It's pretty much it's been done for damn near a year. Everybody's been telling me to release it forever and felt like I had enough records and it was a go. But I'm just like so passionate about this one and I want to make it perfect that I'm still doing some finishing

touches and I still got some big features to add. Yeah man, I don't want you to tell me this. No confirmation or no denial. But please, man, have some of them Griselda niggas up there. That'd be dope. Because they are spitters.

Like, even if his stove guard cook, who, I'm not saying even if as if he's insignificant. I'm just saying, like, he's not the big three, but still a very talented guy, man. Like, somebody like you, that's a spitter and that's a puncher. And you know your way around the good street ball, cook crack bar too. So, you know, like, definitely, like you and those guys, I would see that to be some type of wave because you can tell. Yeah, I want to work with them. I want to work with them, man. I seen Benny at time or two in the land and I was trying to piece it up.

I just was with 38 special last night. Yeah, specials night. Oh, no, the night before last or something. But he had an event out here in the show, came through the, you know what I mean. And I definitely want to work with them niggas. Hopefully, I mean, sometime soon. We put something together and can make it happen. Why did you move to happen?

The spitters need to get together and come together like, you know, like you said, six minutes made an impression so some of the spitters that still got bars need to come together and make it's through for sure how come you move to Atlanta um the vibe I just like it out there man air like the land the space the vibe the energy is like the black Hollywood everybody like focused and then trying to do something anything you need it's like if you don't know that person somebody next to you could just call that person and you could just get it and Get it done. I just like the vibe out there. And plus, I guess since I've been in a different place for so long, it's just new to me.

Were you always in, like, the suburbs of Philly type area, or where were you residing before that? All different places. I lived in Arizona before, Delaware, Jersey, New York, all over the place. I don't have been a lot of different places depending on the different times of my career. But you like somewhere that's a little bit more laid back and chill? The last spots I was at was like up top though still Jersey New York Delaware like around those areas not the south I noticed that Philly nays don't get money and stay in Philly they go to Delaware But some shit like that like that's always the move like yeah that's like the closest place to get like a nice crib and be away from the nonsense and all that stuff so that's where people

Normally try to go to Delaware in New York we go to Jersey and Philly y'all go to Delaware I noticed that's pretty cool Well, y'all go to Jersey too because that shit is like connected at the, like South Jersey is connected. Yeah, but South Jersey are a little different. So, you know, that's why people normally try to go to Delaware. Yeah, that's true. South Jersey would be a little dangerous. Yeah. But Delaware more, Delaware more calm where you could like, you know what I mean, get a house and be chilling and don't got to worry about all the nonsense.

But I wasn't trying to get away from nothing. And that's not the reason I just wanted to move around. I know I want to see the world. I think like we brainwashed to think that you got to stay in one spot. That's what be like limiting your mind. But once you see the world, see it. All that they got to offer, you can make better decisions. No, for sure.

That's why I'll be in that back. If you have the ability to move around, you should definitely take that opportunity. Because for me at this point, I got so much shit that's keeping me in L.A. That like anytime I find my mind wandering, like, oh, maybe I can move it. here. We can move here. It's like, all right, two mortgages and, uh, you know, all these employees and you get a kid who's in school, or going to be in school soon in a specific place, like, all this shit that's just tying you down to that area that would make moving like so much more complicated, you know? Yeah. I understand. That's why. That's why a lot of people can't

move around because of responsibilities and things that got them locked in the one place. But if you could ever get the freedom to do it, it's the best feeling. Right. How are you feeling about the battle rap thing at this point? Because you were out here doing some stuff in that regard, right? Yeah, the other day they had this create for you. It's this new platform that was starting. And they had a battle between daylight heat from out here and like this MMA fighter called King Bao.

Right. And they was like the main event. So I hosted the face-offs. Like I missed the podcast. I've been doing media and stuff like that. Like especially for the battle rap. area like to get that like a little bit more lit so I hosted the face-offs and um even went to the event for these people that's putting on this new event right so you're really like part of that culture

it's not just like something that you're doing a little bit here and there you're really fucking with it at this point yeah I feel like I started that like earlier I told you like this new form of battle rap was created like by me I feel like I kind of like am the reason why this got the energy that they got. Of course a lot of dudes came after me and start putting in a lot of work and like they are responsible for, you know, where is that now? But I feel like I'm a huge part of it. Right. So that's why I feel like I got to keep going. And also I want to help the battle rappers. They like my favorite dudes. Like I like battle rap. That's my favorite part of hip hop because they're competitive and they're trying to be lyrical. But I want them to push even harder and like, you know,

go even more crazier so that you know what i mean we could take this year to a another level right definitely was uh so i remember i'm pretty sure they announced it at the end of the drake birthday bash battle which is still the only battle that i've ever been to but they announced that you were going to battle freeway at the end of that event i believe and i was pretty astonished so that was finally going to happen uh but then we haven't really heard too much since then is that getting rescheduled or what's going on with it i'm not sure I know we initially, like, locked it in. Just like when you, like, lock in,

that you're going to do a show or something, and they send a deposits and everything is good, and you're like, all right, it's coming. Uh-huh. But they never put the date together, never put a time together, a venue, or never put the rest of the deal together. And a lot of time passed,

and they still never put it together, so now it's just over. So you already got part of your payment for it? Yeah, anytime I announce that I'm bad, somebody I already got paid. I would never say I'm about to battle with somebody if I didn't get paid yet. But is part of the contract that like if enough

time goes by then that payment doesn't matter anymore or? Yeah. Just like with anything else. Wow, I didn't think it was like that. It was like too much time. Too much time passed. Like, you know what I mean? They were supposed to do it at a certain date.

And they even announced it publicly like when it was supposed to go down and it didn't get, go down. And it didn't even get like, it wasn't even like, Sorry, something happened so we couldn't do it to this date, but this, we rescheduled it for this. It was no even rescheduled date or nothing like that,

and a lot of time was going past. They must be getting a lot of money. Yeah, right. They could afford to give UN freeway deposits and just be like, eh, whatever. I mean, that's, shit, it's got to be a lot of money down the grain. One of the other, either they gain too much money and they don't care about it,

or they're not getting enough money where they couldn't get the rest of the money that was owed to us. Ah, yeah. Maybe they just bust that move immediately because we was the energy and they wanted to lock it in, but maybe ain't fully think the business too. Or like you said,

they may be so rich that they don't mind just giving money away. Yeah, I don't know. I've heard that they make a shill of the money in that battle-ass shit. I mean, you hear what certain people get paid too, it's like, damn, they must be getting a lot of money if they can write checks like that.

Nah, money don't grow on tree, Geez, money got to come from somewhere, and they ain't getting that much money. Ain't that much ticket sales selling, ain't that much pay-per-view selling, so where's the money coming from? Investors? I don't know.

I'm not super tapped in with it. Yeah, I'm the one that's getting a lot of money, so people confuse it and think because I say that I got these big bags that is just a bunch of battle rappers running around getting that. But, nah, they... Most battle rappers don't even get, like, 1% of what I try. charge. Right. So it's like, you know, it might be good for me and it's growing in a way. There's more opportunities for them to generate money if you could create the energy.

Right. But when I come around, the numbers go up. The ticket sales go up and the paper views is crazy so they can make the money back. That's why I charge so much. But the average battle rapper don't even generate enough attention to even demand no money. So how much gets Cassidy on the stage across from? from another rapper, ready to rap. How much money would cost for that to happen? But for this situation, it was $250,000. That's what I heard.

Yeah, that's what it was before this situation. But I'm about to go up, man. That's a nice day at work. I don't know how much you make from music or anything like that, but that's got to feel pretty good having that check hit. $250, man. It's not good. Like, I feel like I should be, like,

making a lot more money in a lot more different ways. for a lot more different reasons because I'm so nice. So it's a blessing that I'm able to make money, but I feel like I deserve more than that. I feel like, I mean, it's a lot more available, and we could do a lot more with battle raps. So that's why I'm hosting these battle raps, talking a lot about it,

and giving all of the league owners' ideas and coming together with them so that we can make more stuff possible for battle rappers and people that's super nice. Right. There was a rapper who one time showed me How much they got paid for a walkthrough in a club And it was like it was 25K

But they were not like a huge rapper at this point in their career right And I just remember being like damn Maybe I really fucked up with the solo YouTube thing Because apparently there's some pretty fucking good checks as a rapper Shit 25,000 are walking through the club That's crazy I don't even like the club But I'll be an average seven days a week 25 bins You walk through the club just to sell a couple eight balls

Easily It just depends on how long that lasts, though. That's what they don't prepare you for. Like if you get 25K to walk through a club, somebody, if you ain't fully wrote the song, or even if you did, but it wasn't your best work, you're not even completely all the way in shape. You're super high.

You're not even making the best decisions, and you're getting 25K to walk through the club. You might think, yo, if I make some improvements, I'm going to keep getting this or even more money. So that's how you start living your life. But that might not last forever. That might be temporarily. You might got that hit song now,

and your next song might not do as good. And then they're not giving you 25 because there's another newer artist that was like you when they was giving you the 25. Now they're giving him the 25. So now you need new records to get more money again. And this might be difficult for the artists to keep doing that. So if they was prepared for that,

then it would be cool. Like, why are you getting the 25? You could stack it and plan for the next flip or to do something with it if you knew that this was temporary. Right. But they don't, they don't, like, prepare you for it,

and they don't tell you that it's going to be temporary and you don't think it is. You think it's going to be forever. Is there anything you spent money on early in your career that you look back at it? Like, what the fuck was I thinking? Nah, I don't make bad decisions with money. So you wasn't buying throwback jerseys and shit?

Nah. Them shit is like 500 to pop, man. Nah, I had throwback jerseys back. Like, I had jerseys back. jerseys, different jerseys back then. I wasn't like super on it like fad was, but I had something like, I mean, here and there, but.

I think anything, anything I spent money on was worth it. It was like a flip. I wasn't making like dumb decisions just blowing money all the time. You know, R. Kelly has some ill throwbacks. Most of them shit ain't even have real teams on them.

That was crazy. So I know that like the custom ones got to be more, but I used to see them shit for like 500. But you said you were some, want about it so that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, plus when you on, like, it just be the people that's not on

gotta go spend his money on clothes. Like, once you on, like, when I was at my brokest point, that's when I had to pay the most for clothes. When I was, like, up and super lit, like, I ain't have to pay for nothing. Like, I was just, like, getting whatever I won. I had a bunch of stylists that was bringing wild shit.

I could pick what I like. I could, like, select what I wanted to wear and what I wanted to do when I wasn't paying for shit. It's crazy because, like, the whole idea that you can't wear the same thing twice, if you're a rapper and you're shooting a music video, like, yeah, like, you can't,

you can't wear the same thing to an awards show that you just wore for a music video and you're going to have a different outfit for every music video. But somehow, I feel like that has trickled down to a lot of normal people where they feel like they need to, like, constantly be having different outfits and shit. And it's like, nah, like,

if you're just a regular guy, you can just wear the same shirt like 40 times it's fine yeah another stuff I don't know I used to be real big on changing that shit you know young fresh to death but now it's like I'm older I do laundry more frequently like I'm just gonna wear this shit like have you seen it then you know I own it if you see it again you know I ain't barring it that's it I guess it's whatever whatever make you feel comfortable man true um so in like places where they don't really change clothes or when they do, you can't even tell because it's like they garbed up

and they look the same. Yeah. But they like super, super up. Like super rich. Whatever they wanted to do and get, they could get. They could like buy the whole clothing store. Like the whole store, not just like something in the store. Yeah.

They could buy the whole store. Like, and they don't care really about the clothes that much. Like, you know what I mean? They main focus or something different. And then I know people that might, like, They got most of the store in their closet but can't buy shit because they're spinning it all on them clothes out the store. So it's just all about how you want to live your life

or what make you happy. Some people feel happy knowing that they come out in regular clothes but got super money and all their plans going right. And some people feel good. Like it don't matter if their plans going right or they got super money because they look like they got it. And everybody going to be impressing them when they come out.

So I guess it's all about what make you happy. but I guess there's no right and wrong. That's real. Do you have any thoughts about the Torrey Lanes make the stallion trial now that it's over since you went through some issues with Tori in the past? Nah, Tori just stole my bars and I just realized it. I had to check him on that, but I don't know. On the radio freestyle he did, right?

Yeah, a couple times he did, though. Oh, sorry. So that's where the issue came in that, but other than that, I don't got no issue with him. know him. Like, I don't know him. Right. Okay. So that was just, like, we never even met. Right. So it's like, I don't, I don't really got no real issues. He never really did nothing to me.

He just was, you know, the first time I heard him on the radio and he took my bars and said it, I just let it go. Like, all, it could be a coincidence or whatever. But then when I seen him do it again, and then, like, another time, it's like, yo, you, you. Doing that a lot, my G, and you're not even, like, bigging me up. You're not even, like, shouting me out. You're trying to make these new fans think that that's you? Like, you really thought of that? Like, when all of my fans that heard that before is, like, saying the words with you

because they remember when I said it, it's just a bunch of new fans that might not be familiar with the fact that I said it that's thinking you killing it. So it's like, that's when I had a little issue. But anything other than that, I don't got no issue with that. Make sense. So you started a podcast? Not yet. Or you're starting it?

Yeah, I'm like doing media right now with these battle leagues and getting it started. So when I do start like getting it a little letting people familiar with how I do interviews and how I do when I'm doing media so they could get comfortable. So when I do start the podcast, it's just not out of nowhere. Right. What kind of shit do you imagine yourself doing on your podcast? What type of content and what type of guess? All different type of guess, but definitely based around hip hop, rap, and teaching people how to be dope what the coach is about and how it played a part of my life to make me who I am and how it played a part of so many other people like to make them who they are.

But I don't want to let out all my secrets. I got a lot of special stuff that I'm going to do on a podcast and a lot of other. Like, I'm a fan of a lot of these podcasts and all that. I'm tuned in. I'll be watching. But I got a few things that's going to make minds slightly different. Like, you do brain teasers? No.

You're not good at brain teasers. Well, give me an example. No, I want to give it to you right now. I'm just asking you. I just wanted to know. Brain teasers, like, I don't know what, like little linguistic things to, like, try to make your brain work better? I can't really picture one. You said it.

Stuff like that. So like, I mean, okay. Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, so that's a part of my show is going to have some brain teasings. Like a little quiz? A hair in there, I'm going to do some of that. I love brain teasers.

I love making people think because once you get old, you still think, but it's normally about the stuff that you used to thinking about. Like, I think about this all the time, so I got to think, but it's about my job or whatever I do

or my business or my family but using that other part of your brain like when you're in school or when you're learning or when you're really straining your brain to think because you don't really use that no more so like them brain teasers be beneficial. Damn, all right.

So with all this been to exercising you be doing, how long it takes you to write a round that's to your standard where you say I feel comfortable enough rapping this rhyme? It depends. It depends on the type of rhyme. It depends on the zone I'm in.

Oh, my bad for action is generic-ass question. So what's the fastest time you've ever written a rhyme? I wasn't really timing myself or nothing like that, but I probably wrote rhymes, like, quick, and it depends on the length of the rhyme. Like, I kind of came up with choruses or, like, you know, eight bars or four bars, like, in seconds. And I'm saying, like, in 30 seconds or 20 seconds or a minute. I don't thought of stuff like that.

You know I mean? But like to actually like write like real lyrical bars and all of that out. It depends on the beat. If I'm writing to a beat or not, sometimes I write with no beat. So it's easier for me to deep think with no beat and no distractions. So it just depends. Sometimes I could be in a studio when there's 50 niggas there. Sometimes I could just be in the room in the crib by myself.

So depending on the focus You got to determine how fast I write Or how comfortable I am with what I write But do you write the whole thing down in advance always Or is there a time where you'll like punch in Like the kids be doing these days? Um All the above

I write all of my bars down I got rap books Like right out there I got like And my book bag is like five rap books Really? But I got my phone filled with raps Like, I'll show you my notes is just clip after clip filled with raps. And I got raps in my head.

Sometimes I go in a studio. Like I said, if I think of something real quick, like a chorus or eight bars, I could just go in the booth and lay it. And then punch the rest like you said, kids do. Or sometimes I could think of like two bars to a chorus and lay it down. And then I got to think of the next six. I take every process. Like, you know what I'm saying? I do it all.

Like, I go in the booth. Sometimes I bring the booth. the mic outside in the studio with me. I then did every process the way like Jay-Z and Big do. Like they say they like, you think they like freestyle in it like off the top. But it's still like a writing process. But instead of just writing it down on the paper, it's similar like the hot kids do.

It's like when I think of these two bars, I'm going to record it. Or I think of four bars, I'm going to record it. And then I got that. So now I could think of the next four. like writing and then I record that until the verse done. Or I could just keep doing that in my head. Like instead of recording it, I just write the fore and then I remember it. Like I'm just throwing it in my head and then I go to the next four and then I say the whole verse.

But I feel like that's unnecessary energy that you use and like unnecessary memory. Like if you look at it like a computer, there's no point of like constantly making yourself remember the same thing because it's going to take away from you thinking to the next thought if you got to remember at the same time. Right. So I'd rather just say it, record it, lay it, and it's done or write it down.

So now you don't got to think about what you already wrote down, save it in your memory because it's already wrote down. You can move on to the next thought and think deeper. That makes sense for sure. So the next project, when's that dropping?

Anything else we need to know about that's coming in the near future? Two battle reps this year, hopefully. Hopefully I'll be in two battle reps this year. The best project of my life is the year of the goat. So, 2020-3 is the year to goop. This is my year. That's why I've been doing a lot of promo.

I'm back on my bullshit to let people know that. Bars is back. I'm back, like, going crazy, crazy. Not just with a little project, and I just got a record. I'm back for real, blacking out, going crazy. Like I'm 17. 18 again. So I'm excited. Like when I was with J Records, it's a lot of hard records that's lyrical, but it's records for the females. There's um Jews I'm dropping. It's all a different type.

You said you was making records for the Jews. I was about saying I never knew, but go ahead, brother. Nah, there's a lot of Jews that I'm dropping a lot of like information on these records, man. like and I'm in a lot of I'm on a lot of different beats per minute like you might even hear me trapping you might hear me drilling you might hear me on these different beats per minute but I'm still talking that talking still rhyming bars is back. That's what's what I respect it man it was an honor getting you on the show just after having listened to you for like 20 years or so so it was great to have a fucking conversation for the first time man it was definitely appreciated on my end and it's dope to see you still

making moves and just being able to keep turning up after all these years. Yeah, I'm grinding, man. I'm grinding, man. Thanks for having me, bro. Appreciate you. No doubt. Thank you, Courtney. You're joining me?

No problem, man. With this fucking tiny little sip of purple you got left in there? I'm saying, right? Starbucks. I'll put water in this shit to diluted too, but I guess it came out extra purple. Yeah, it's going to need some work. He told me he got some bars, too. Oh, really?

Yeah, I ain't about this rap on here in front of Cassidy, because if you say I'm black, then I'm going to play. quitting but listen he's on the podcast and he's ready to get his career moving I like it

I appreciate you Cassidy thank you so much thanks for having me bro my man no jumber coolest podcast in world check us on YouTube TikTok Patreon etc

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