No Jumper - DJ Drama on Discovering Lil Uzi Vert & Jack Harlow, The N Word, DatPiff & More

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Dj Drama sat down with Adam to talk about his impact on the music industry, Lil Uzi Vert, Jack Harlow, the DatPiff era, and more. ----- 00:00 Intro 0:05 Adam and Drama met in Atlanta with Shoreline Mafia years ago, Drama says he wishes he would have talked with Adam a bit more back then 3:00 Drama speaks on the conception of Gangsta Grillz and says he would've never seen this trajectory coming 7:00 Drama on how the game is constantly changing and speaks on how hip hop is a young man's sport 10:30 Drama on having a high percentage of finding young undiscovered artists and speaks on how Jack Harlow becoming a generational talent 13:00 Drama speaks on Uzi being the first person he signed to Atlantic 15:00 Drama on seeing the vision in artists that he signs and how they want to be great is a key attribute to look for and says that success doesn't always bring out positive things in a person 24:30 Drama speaks on how he doesn't mind playing behind the scenes and how attention has become less appealing as he got older 27:00 Drama on how people became aware of him via Jack Harlow or Lil Uzi Vert and the negative connotation behind "riding waves" 29:40 Drama on watching The Roots come up, playing video games with Questlove when he was younger and says that these experiences is an ode to how long he's been in the game 33:20 Drama speaks on his relationship with Stevie Williams 41:40 Drama on if he's always understood the importance of building relationships with people and networking 43:00 Drama speaks on if artists have ever been upset about not having the top spot on his tapes 44:00 Drama speaks on the backlash he received from Lil Uzi Vert saying the reason for the holdup in music because of him + How artists feel like they need you less the more successful they get 48:00 Drama on artists not realizing the value of equity and says it's very rare for an artist to stay with their original team 50:30 Drama speaks on the success of Jack Harlow, his love for Jack's authenticity as a White rapper and says that Jack is very tunnel visioned on what he wants to accomplish 53:40 Drama on Gangsta Grillz being a one dimensional brand when it started and how it evolved into what it is now 55:50 Drama reacts to people on Twitter complaining that he says the N-Word and asks if people really think that he would be able to get away with saying it for this long without being Black 59:40 Drama says that there's not enough gatekeepers in hip hop and how playlists have become what mixtapes were 1:02:20 Drama on not being on Tik Tok although he probably should be and the stock that labels put into Tik Tok 1:05:10 Adam asks Drama if he's ever thought about selling his catalog, says everybody could use more money and our kids would know what to do with money better than a catalog 1:08:30 Drama on the importance of investing outside of rap, not getting a return on his Liquid Death investment yet and speaks on the money he made in the height of the "DatPiff Era" 1:10:00 Drama on DatPiff being a vital space for art that doesn't exist on any other platform and wanting to bring the whole Gangsta Grillz catalog to the DSP's 1:13:30 Drama on his passion for what he does and how his income has never affected his motivation for the art 1:15:00 Drama addresses rumors of Lil Uzi Vert being a satanist, says that Uzi and Carti were trying to "out-devil" each other at Rolling Loud and says he's never gotten an invitation to any of the Illuminati meetings 1:21:00 Drama speaks on Jack Harlow being carried by Black security guards at the Kentucky Derby and commends Jack for how he handled the situation 1:23:30 Adam asks Drama what's so special about the Jack Harlow's KFC meal and Drama gives his thoughts on all of the fast food collaborations with artists 1:25:00 Drama on his next studio album being his first in 6 years, reveals features, upcoming music and how he's talked about his FED case for so long ----- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No jumper. Coolest podcast on the world. And today I bring you the one and only DJ Drama. What's up, man? This is a long time in the making. A real one right here. Okay, do you remember the experience that I'm going to bring up that we had in Atlanta? So I remember you coming to Mean Streets.

I remember you being at the studio. But, no, I don't remember the experience was beyond that. So I was out there in Atlanta with Shoreline Mafia. Yeah. And I just remember that you were doing an interview with them and there was something that they all had to say and I kind of can't remember what it was, but it might have been like it was like a gangster girl's tagline or something like they were doing their drop for the show or something. Yeah. And one of the dudes in Trailer Mafia, one of the a little lesser known guys of it, but he was not trying to say it and you were not feeling it at all. So I'm kind of just sitting there watching this play out just like, oh man.

This is fucking crazy. Damn. Do you remember what it was? I vaguely remember that, but I don't remember what the scenario could have been. I don't remember exactly what it was. Like, what is it that he could have, that I would have wanted him to say that he didn't want to say? I was combing my brain last night trying to remember. But it wasn't anything that was like a big deal.

It was just like some little drop or something that you wanted everybody to do. And you weren't feeling it. I think I do kind of vaguely remember this now. And I just, I had to check in with one of my homies last night. I'm like, that really happened, right? I didn't like invent that in my head. I do. Now that you bring it up, I do vaguely remember that happening.

But more, more, I'm going to be honest with you. More importantly, what I remember about that is you being at the studio and me not sparking more of, of conversation with you as I should have. Like, I don't think at that moment I was as aware of. And obviously, this is what, like six, seven years ago. So clearly. Five maybe? Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while.

So clearly you've come a long way since then, but you were still, you know, who you are. And I look back on it like, damn, why didn't I make more conversation with Adam at the time and just kind of like, that's funny. Dive in and like, you know, just chop it up and, you know, get to know them a little more. I was thinking about that too because, you know, I was hanging out with these rappers, drinking some, smoking some. And a lot of times that has happened to me in my life where I was like kind of, and I don't get loaded like that anymore. but where I think back and I'm like, damn, when you was at that party and you ran into that guy,

you really should have talked to him more, but you were feeling a little too good. At the time, you didn't really like enable it. Yeah, no, for sure. But again, you know, you were one of the legendary people to come through Main Street Studios. And then, like, I just vaguely remember

that I have this image of, like, you in the kitchen. And then kind of afterwards, kind of like, oh, yeah, that's the guy that did so and so and so and so and so and so. And I was like, damn, like, you know, because I'm one that, you know, I like, I'm a student of the culture. So I love this type of conversation. And, you know, you obviously been doing your thing for some time. Well, it's crazy just because, I mean, I've been listening to you since I was such a young guy.

And it was such like a, that mixtape era really, like, kind of breathed life into hip-hop for me at that time, especially because I moved to New York in 2004. Okay. At the height of, you know, do you need a mixtapes, dipset mixtapes. Yeah. And then you were someone who was like clearly like injecting this like Southern as well into what we were all like buying from the corner store and everything. Absolutely. And looking back on that, it's just like, I don't know. And to see the way that you've actually managed to continue to switch your hustle up, continue to do incredibly well for yourself, accomplish new accolades that you might not have ever imagined earlier on in your career.

I mean, it's been pretty unbelievable for witness. It's been unbelievable to experience and to go through. through this journey. Like, if somebody would have told me when I first started DJing or, you know, going into even the conception of gangster girls that we would be sitting here today talking about things that I've accomplished,

I would have never believed them. Like, you know, it's, it's like, it's mind blowing. And then what's even more mind blowing is like, being here in 2023 and being at this point where, arguably I'm kind of like the hottest I've ever been in my career, or, you know, comparable to when I was on fire and 06 with Wayne and GZ and tipp and so forth. And I have so much legacy behind me.

So, you know, to be in this space at going on 45 this year, like is pretty unbelievable, bro. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, that's incredible, honestly. And it's very inspiring as well just because, you know, I've had so many different hustles in my life. And sometimes when I talk about my life, people are, I almost feel like people think I'm lying

because I'm like just describing that I was doing hustling when I was 19, and they're just looking at me now, like, that doesn't even sound right. Why the fuck you doing that? I'm like, I was a very different person at that point in my life. But you've just been able to sort of flip between that shit.

I mean, it's been something that like, like I'm very conscious of. Like, you know, like early on in my career when I first got on, like, you know, to me, it was like even through the, you know, I started DJN 92. You know, I pretty much feel like I got on around what, like,

oh, 304, that's when I really started to see some real money and like Gangsta Grills was becoming a notable brand. So even during those years, like when I first got hot, I was like, all right, like, how do you, I got to maintain this. Like, you know, I envision longevity in a sense of like, not even knowing that I would be sitting here today with a Grammy, with a multi-million dollars successful record label with all these accolades under me, but just knowing like, you know, the easy part, even though it's hard as fuck and still not easy to do is to get here, but to maintain it.

You know what I'm saying? Like, so, you know, and I'm big on manifestation. You know what I mean? Like, just putting things out into the universe. So, yeah, to sit here, like, I challenge myself a lot. I'm very, like, thankful and, you know, humble about everything that I've done. But I'm also like, all right, what I'm going to do next? Like, what can I do next?

Yeah, because, like, seeing you be able to switch between all of these different hustles, it's like, it kind of makes me think about YouTube in a way because with YouTube, it's like, I've been grinding at this shit for over 10 years. And sometimes even still to this day, I look at life a little bit too much judged by my YouTube analytics, you know, which is really like, that's not the long run. The long run of business is creating other revenue streams that go alongside your content or whatever and those aren't accounted for within the analytics or whatever and sometimes i think you've really allowed the the graph that you've been looking at every day for 10 12 years you've

allowed that to kind of like embed itself into your sense of importance too much yeah but when i was watching you on a math office shit last night shout out to math shout to math it really stood out to me like you're a dude who's had to like switch up how you judge how good a job you're doing at your career over and over and over yeah um Yeah, I mean, you know, the game is constantly changing and like, you know, hip hop turning 50. Like, we're in a time in a space where an older generation can definitely coexist. But through time, like hip hop has always been somewhat of a young man's sport. You know, and I've, like, I came in as a mixtape DJ and like, you know, the mixtape game went through a period where, you know, it's,

started to diminish and you know I'm saying I went to a period when you know I wanted to put up put out records and was an artist in my own self and then you know becoming an A&R and getting behind other artists so you know some of it is like kind of kind of reinvention in a way and some of it just kind of happened organically like just being able to be a a man of many hats no pun intended but once you I feel like like and you just touched on it like you know once you kind of build a brand, it's like, okay, how do you create other streams of revenue around that? You know what I'm saying? So, you know, once obviously DJ Drama was a brand, a gangster girls was a brand,

it's like, all right, what can I do that, you know, with that I've built to continue and to rise and to get money over here and, and, you know, do this venture and X, Y, and Z. So, you know, I learn with Tom. Do you ever feel like there's a tricky balance between like the companies that you're building and then you you? Because obviously selling your services, whether it's you hosting a tape or you doing a DJ set or you whatever, it's like, but then at the same time, you're building companies. Sometimes I'm in a position where it's like I need to not be grabbing every single bag that I can get as an individual. And I need to be focused on what I'm doing with my brands and what I'm building with the brands in the long run. And sometimes they feel like they're pretty different things.

They're going to lead you in very different directions. Yeah. Well, one thing for me, obviously, is that, you know, from a company standpoint, or definitely from a label standpoint, like it's myself, it's Don Cannon, it's Lake Show, so I have partners, so we're, we all are able to play our roles. And I guess in a sense, like, partially of what my role is in the label is like being that spotlight, like that attraction to, you know, want to be a part of generation now in a sense. and you know some of like the legacy of of what gangster grills is is is somewhat and has been attractive to artists that have come to the label um so like you know for a time in a in a in a certain space and period like a couple years ago like i wasn't even in this this this role that i'm in right now where i'm doing multiple gangster grills and i'm all over the place

and you know like i got a bunch of stuff going on like i I was kind of comfortable in somewhat of the executive role, in running the label, and kind of taking a backseat. And then, you know, the opportunity somewhat presented itself for me to like, okay, like turn up and go into another gear. And it's like, you know, in this day and Tom, in this game, you never know when that opportunity's not going to be there. So you've got to take full advantage of it.

But it's like two very different things of putting together hit records with a bunch of different artists and like making that happen versus like finding young undiscovered talent and then building them up from the ground up. You probably have a higher percentage than most people in this game, but we all know that this is kind of a low percentage thing for the most part. For sure. You know, anyone who runs a label, you're going to sign 10 artists and maybe one or two are going to become successful.

Like was that kind of an interesting transition for you? I mean, I want to say like, you know, like it was, We was gifted in a way because, you know, one of our first artists we signed being little Uzi literally was out the gate a fucking superstar. So it was like, you know, but it also, it came with some pressures too because it was like, all right, you know, for so long the pressure had been like being a part of so many other people's careers and successes and then all right, having to do it like under our, you know, our label or. under our name, you know what I mean? And then we did it and it was like, all right, you got to do it again, you know. And then we were successful at it with Jack in the same vein.

And again, you know, he's become like a generational artist, obviously who's going to be here for a long time. So there's some pressures in it for sure, you know, but, you know, I take those on, like you got to work with the pressure. You know what I mean? You can't fold under it, obviously. And it's just like, yeah, for us definitely. you know we like to take quality over quantity but at the same time like yeah i want to i want to go out there

and sign like five six seven more artists this year and you know you know see where where we go with them and and create some more superstars so um it's obviously a different different entity or different battle than being able to call little wayne and get a verse for a record on my album you know i'm saying like you know like you said it's a it's a low percentage game like especially today where it's like you know there's artists left and right and there's so many different avenues and analytics and places and spaces for people to be and to become but you know if you if you love it like and it's something that i do it's like hey like run it up do you think that you having your own thing going is like critical to you being able to sign all these successful artists because

when I was going through your history and I'm looking at, because you were with Atlantic before, right? I was originally. And you signed a bunch of artists who I remember their names from back of the day and everything, nothing against them,

but maybe, you know, it seems like your track record has improved since things. You have, like, massive superstars since then. Well, I never really, I know, the first person I signed to Atlantic was Uzi. Oh, so that was under Atlantic as well.

Yeah, so like, I was signed to Atlantic as an artist originally. Like, I did my artist deal through Atlantic. at Grand Hustle and then I left and I went over to E1 and then you know when I went to E1 I started honestly putting out better records and I had more success with my own records and then you know shot to my man Sam Crespo who worked at Atlantic who was you know working a lot of my records he presented the opportunity for me to come back as an A&R and you know when I took the job

I also you know brought to them Mean Street Studios and They became my partner in the studio, but they were like kind of putting me with different artists as an A&R. And it just, I was, I was trying to find my footing. And when Canon brought Uzi to the table and then I brought Uzi to Atlantic, you know, that was literally our first signing,

you know, to the company. And we did it in a sense where like, we signed him to Generation Now and we did our production deal with Atlantic instead of me just kind of like an A&R and signing him to the business. building because you know they they early on it wasn't that they believed in little oozy they believed in the DJ drama you know I'm saying and what I was bringing to the table um so so yeah that's

pretty much how that went when you're analyzing a new artist how does this play out in your head because a lot of times when you're signing an artist you have to like see two percent of the superstar in them. You have to be able to look past whatever weird clothes they might be wearing because they're brand new in their career and they're, you know, maybe they're broke, they ain't got no jewelry, they don't got cool hair, et cetera. But as a person who has to sign an artist, like a lot of people out there think that they would be great A&Rs. Right. Because they could tell you that the artists who are already signed and already are starting to look like they might be successful are going to be successful. That's way different than like what you do

with somebody like Uzi at that time. I mean, it's the equivalent of like looking at like a high school basketball player and being able to say, oh, he's going to make it, right? Yeah. It's tough, you know? I mean, Jack the same way. Like, if you were to see Jack in 2018, I think I interviewed him in 2018, yeah. And it didn't seem like a sure thing yet. You feel what I'm saying?

So, you know, it's like, it's really more of like when I talk to them and when we have those initial conversations and early on and hear the drive and the ambitious. and the conviction that they have to like want to be great that's for me it's what's like okay like I'm in you know I mean like I'm I'm I'm along for this ride you know whether you know win or lose you know I'm saying I see that you want to be one of those ones and I know what that feeling in is like so I'm willing to take this this this chance and this opportunity and put my eggs in this basket and let's rock what about like the self-destructive behaviors that a

a lot of young rappers are gonna have because I've definitely been in the position where I wanted to sign somebody before. And then I really just kind of thought about what a fucking headache dealing with them and their bad habits might be. And that made me very, very hesitant. It's tough.

I mean, you know, it's like it's like having a family member or being a parent, you know what I'm saying? And having to deal with, you know, and I don't want to make this sound like I'm saying someone's a child, but, you know, as a young adolescent or a young adult,

like you're going through a lot of things. And you got to think, like, when someone comes into your life or you meet an artist, like, let's say you meet them at 18, 19, 20. Like, you didn't know them for those other 18 formative years of their lives or what they've been through or have to go through or, you know, where their mental health is. And, you know, those are real life issues with everyone. It's like you meet them at a certain point in their life.

And then as time goes on, and especially when like success comes, you know, that success doesn't always bring out all positive things in one person. Like it can bring out, like you said, some like self-destructive behavior. And you got to be prepared like if you're ready to be along that rod and that journey. Like it's definitely not easy. The music business is not easy when it comes to that, you know, for sure. Not at all, yeah. But, I mean, do you look at someone, could you look at an artist who just has the vibe and the look

and not the music? Or does the music always have to be already, like at least showing the potential to be great? That's hard because, you know, my ear is probably trained a certain way. So, like, I have the confidence in the faith to not always trust my ear. You know what I mean?

Like, I'm a kid from the night. Like I grew up on Tribe Called Quest and doggy style and fucking De La Soul, you know what I'm saying, and Snoop and you know, wutang, you know what I mean? So when I first heard the Migos, when I first heard Bando, it didn't necessarily like spark my ear to be like, oh my God, these niggas is about to be one of the greatest hip-hop groups of all time. But, you know, I also had enough faith and trust that I was like, look, like, if this is what the kids is fucking with, like, all right, let me see where this could go.

You know what I'm saying? Same, you know, same with vert in a sense. Like, you know, I definitely early on knew he was a spitter or like when Ken and him Uzi were working on Love is Rage. Like, you know, it had a certain sound to it. And, like, I didn't know that it was going to be jump out the window. the way it was potentially, you know what I'm saying? So like I think the music is definitely important. But I think, you know, like what you said, like, I don't think what we know today as we may once have is like what quote unquote a star is supposed to look like really exists anymore.

Like, you know, a lot of artists today don't technically or necessarily look like stars. You know what I'm saying? Or they come in various shapes and sizes. So you can't even. even look at somebody all the time and be like, oh, they're a star. Now, personality goes a long way, but, you know, there's, there definitely needs to be potential in music. Like, I don't know if I could just sign something that I think is trash, you know what I mean? But I could sign something that people are fucking wet and think it's dope and I might not necessarily get into my car and ride to it, per se. There was times back 2017-ish when I would see a young artist and maybe I'd look at them, think like he kind of has the look he kind of had a little bit of star power or something and

that would check out the music i'd be like this music fucking sucks i give up it's not happening and then somebody i know will go get the the little like you know ability to bring them to the labels bring them to the labels get hundreds of thousands of dollars a million dollars whatever and then this person is basically like moved on from dealing with them within like a couple months and i was just you know that was kind of amazing to me i'm like oh so i was right that this artist didn't have long-term potential, but what I was wrong about was that he did have short-term potential, at least in the sense that if I had really understood the label game, I would have bamboozled, been able to bamboozle the label into getting that big advance or whatever, you know?

Interesting. It's kind of like two different things. Right. I don't think I'm good in the short-term game. I think me and my guys are better in the long-term game, for sure, you know. And, you know, the short-term game is lucrative, too, so nothing against that by no means you know what i mean and i think that in that in that way like it can still pan out and be financially successful for all parties involved but that that that definitely hasn't been my

strong point for the most part like obviously you know like most of the artists that i've worked with or that i'm attached to have been here for the long haul so you sign an artist and then how involved do you want to be because i feel like if i were to sign an artist that would be the other weird thing for me is part of me would want to go to every interview would want to go to every studio session right and then in reality i know it's true for you too is you don't you do not have that time no at all um but you know i'm as involved as as necessary especially in the beginning like you know obviously when we sign a new artist you know i'm be i'm gonna be able to walk them into rooms that they might not necessarily be able to get into or sit down with uh adam

22 or you know I'm able to take them on tour like this summer I'm going out with snoop and whiz so whatever new artists we have you know on the roster will come out on the row with me and I'll put them on stage in front of 15,000 early on in their career before it's time or um you know introduce them to you know ABC XYZ and be able to say yo this my new guy like you know and that matters because at this point if I introduce my new artist to a caliber artists right now, they're going to be like, okay, I need to

definitely tune in and make sure I keep my eye open because of Drum's track record. You know what I mean? So as time goes on, obviously when artists become more successful, the involvement like decreases, but I'm fine with that. You know what I'm saying?

Because they figure out their own rhythm. You know, they start to, you know, gain their own traction and what have you. And then, you know, the dichotomy changes where it's like DJ drama's here, they're here. And then, you know, what you want to happen and what I love to see happen is then they go here. And it's like set artists is here and DJ drama's here.

And then that's time for me to go, you know, work on building the next artist up. Definitely. Um, hold on one second. My brain froze there for a second. But you, and then just to your point too, like, I'm, I'm as involved or uninvolved as they would like me to be. Like, you know, I do think part of the blessing with us is like even me being the figure that I, I am in hip hop and being DJ drama, like, it's still, I'm still capable of playing the background. Like, you know, I don't necessarily like have to, you know, they don't necessarily have to feel like they're battling with me for attention. You know what I mean?

In a way. So. Because you've had so much attention that I feel like as you get older, it's a little bit less appealing to constantly be shoving yourself. And as you get older, it can sometimes be a bad look. We always remember like come to death row if you don't want motherfuckers dancing your videos. Right. Yeah. And I don't, you know, I don't.

We don't want to be those guys or that guy. Like, you know, I don't mind playing the back and, you know, watching said artists or, you know, any artist that we have with us, like, prosper and, like, get all the accolades for that. Like, I just love seeing the success story of, you know, budding talent turn into, like, superstar. Definitely. You ever been in the situation where you're backstage at a show

and you're considering, like, just kind of walking out on the stage because either your artist is out. there or whatever and you got two options you could either like kind of just walk over to the DJ booth like assuming you're not DJ and and say whatever you stand there act like you're being on stage is no big deal or you could be like no give me a mic and go out there and start jumping up and down and turn the fucking crowd up and I've done both and it's kind of fucking weird because it's like by going out there and putting all your energy into it there's part of it where it's like oh I'm expecting y'all to care and I almost don't want to be that person I want to just

be like humble enough that I could just act like oh y'all care about me okay right right right what's your default I've been in that situation um where I've been like at a show and like on the side of the stage and the crowd will notice me and get excited um I'm not just coming out on stage and you with a mic like unless asked upon you know what I'm saying um but like you know and like last year Like there were there were some shows that Jack had that were you know he needed me to fill in as his DJ and I was you know like no doubt like you know that's what I do for a living so I didn't mind doing it when when called upon and yeah like I'm a I'm a play the role you know in that in that situation like that's what he needs me for so of course like you know I'm a I'm a go above and beyond to add to the show and to the element. But yeah, like, but then at the same time, like, if it's not the situation, like, I'm DJ Drama the executive and I'm going to just try to slide to the side and slide to the booth and stand there. And, you know, if the people see me, like, they see me, but it's not like, I'm not, I don't need to be like, hey, look at me. I'm here.

It's drama. Right. Especially when you're with a Jack Harlow or Uzi where it's like, this is your fucking fan. I don't want to be intruding on this relationship that y'all have built. Now, I understand that some of y'all are going to like me, but I don't want to assume that y'all are going to love me. For sure. Absolutely.

Yeah. And it's dope because, like, it's been just that. Like, you know, and it's weird. Like, there are people that have just gotten familiar with me because of Uzi or Jack. Like, you know, like, that's crazy to think. But they're like, oh, DJ Drama, yes, the guy at the time, Jack Arlo. Like, even going on tour last year,

I went on tour with Wiz and Logic. And, you know, the fan base have just at the shows, were getting younger and younger, but just like what they know me for. It's so interesting what people know me for. Like some people will know me for the Tyler Project. Some people will know me for Verton and Harlow. Some people will know me for gangster girls.

Some people will know me for my wishing record with Chris Brown. Like it's just. And it goes through phases. Because you can sign an artist tomorrow and if they become the number one rapper, then to a huge percentage of the people, you are the guy who is with that guy. Right.

You're not like, I remember when I was a little pump's friend. Like a whole year where I was a little pump's friend Like everybody who saw people yelling from their car Hey it's a little pump's friend I wasn't really like Yeah like that known as an interviewer yet So it kind of made more sense

But it was just a wild feeling to be like Oh shit I'm in this current arc of my life Where this one thing means so much more than anything else That I ever did It's kind of crazy right But you got to just embrace it like you know You gotta Hey if that's what you want to love me for yeah

I'll take it Yeah just roll with it like yeah I mean, there's a negative connotation to the idea of like riding waves. Let's be real. If you're in music, if you're in media, you're riding waves. Listen, I've, you know,

I set on a future tape quite some time ago, like, you know, and this is true. Like, if I wasn't a DJ, I would want to be a surfer. Like, you know, I've always had dreams. My white side, if, you know, was more dominant, maybe I would have wound up in California being a surfer for a living. But I worked out.

to become a DJ. But, you know, in me saying that line, it was like, you know, I navigate, I ride waves better than y'all, like, you know, I was just making some connotation to, you know, surfing and waves. But, yeah, like, respectfully, and I don't want to, it's not a negative thing, but, like, I've been riding waves for a long time in my career, you know. And by saying that, that's like me saying, like, I've gone from, you know, watching the roots come up to, you know, DJ and fatigue.

to this, you know, legendary list of, of mixtapes that I've done with so many artists to being a part of, like, these careers and everything. And those are like, you know, those are all waves. So I'm not saying, it's not in a, in a negative way where I'm taking advantage of the wave, but I'm definitely, you know, on the surfboard, you know, riding the wave to get where I'm at. When I saw you say that about how you saw the Roots' career unfold from early on, I was kind of amazed just because to me, they've just been around for fucking forever. Like, I remember getting their CDs out of the back of the magazine where it would have like,

you know, 10 CDs for 50 cents or whatever the fuck it was. Wow. And they'd send it to your house. And I probably wouldn't have like purchased a root CD at that time in my life, except for the fact that there was only so many hip hop releases. So all the conscious hip hop and shit that I know about from that period of my life is pretty much because of those fucking mail order things. But.

A bit of shit. And even then, I was watching the office. the Oscars the other day and just seeing Quest Love. And they're treating him like a god. Like he just carries such a status in this world now. I used to play video games with him when I was in high school, like run into him on South Street. Like, you know, like the roots for me are the epitome of like

the first time me seeing somebody make it in the rap game and being a real believer like, oh, this shit can really happen. Like it could really come true, you know. And that's a, that's an ode to the, like how long I've been doing this shit or, you know, where my career started from and where it's at. Like, literally it's because of the fucking roots. And like you said, like the roots have been here since the early 90s. And I was in high school watching them come up.

And, you know, got befriended by Black Thought by rest of peace, Malik B, Dice Raw, you know, and Quest. And, like, so. So how many official members were there? I thought it was like nine at one point or was it less that were officially signed? Um, early on, so early on, I mean, it was, it was Quest, it was, it was Black Thought, it was Malik B, um, it was, it was Hubbard, um, and Kamal came, I think, by the second album, if I'm not mistaken. So, but I go back even earlier, like, you know, they, they had this, um, uh, what was the name of the crew, um, foreign objects. So they had, like, other members like, uh, my man, uh, King, uh, like my man dame um from from philly like that all were kind of like part of the foreign objects crew and click and what have you but but yeah but again like still for me too like to watch quest is like rise and to watch him at the Oscars and to think like man like you know that's that's

the guy used to run on run into on south street and he would let me hear like black thought demos rapping like cool g rap like it's pretty cool how far we've come that's a weird feeling when like most of the people that you knew 30 years ago are distant memories. Where it's like you just never, I mean a large percentage of them are no longer with us. They're just not, that you have nothing in common with them. You would never run into them.

And then to even see people who started out with you or who were who they saw you as a real young guy it wasn't even successful yet. Right, it's crazy. And to then be like, damn, we're both like actually still doing the thing that we wanted to do. Yeah, that's pretty, that's dope. You know who else?

You know who else I have that connection? with it's Stevie Williams. Really? Shout out to Stevie Williams. Yeah. So, you know, before I was really into DJ and I was into skateboarding. Right, the Philly connection. Yeah.

You were at Love Park? Yeah, I was at Love Park. I was at Love Park every day. Really? Every day. That's sick. Like my dad used to work up the street at this spot called American Friends Service Committee.

So I would literally after school, go downtown or on the weekends, go to Love Park. And around that time, there was like this small crew of black skateboarding. and Stevie was the youngest out of all of us, but he was the nicest. So like, you know, we met, I was what, probably 13, 14, he was 10, 11 or something like that, and you know, we've known each other that long. And it's like, I went away to college.

He moved to California, and I started, you know, I remember when he first, like, really started blowing up, and I was like, damn, like Stevie really did it. And then for us to connect years later, you know and to like be like man we really did it it's like fucking crazy i seen him maybe a year ago in the mall with his kid and i wasn't with my kid it might have been longer if i wasn't with my kid but it was definitely a moment where i seen him i started talking to him and i just felt the energy in him was a little different because he was splitting his time at that moment between having a

conversation with me and being a dad yeah and when you're seeing somebody in dad mode yeah it's such a different versions sometimes. People will see me sometimes out in public and they'll hear me saying like, you have to go to the bathroom, okay? And they're looking at me like, what the fuck? That's hilarious. That shit, I'm sure people do that shit to me too, like seeing me out with my daughters and looking at DJ drama and dad mode. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. But okay, so this is one thing I find interesting about you versus me is that I, I like kind of got into this place in large part because I was going out. I was in clubs.

I was in warehouse shows. I was going to rap shows. Like I was really, if I wanted to get an interview, I was like going to your shows until I got some FaceTime and I figured I'm going to turn that into the interview. And as time went by,

it kind of became more like, all right, I got a team who was putting together the interviews for me. And I got, you know, a family life where I'm trying to like, you know,

I'm not going out at night or anything like that. But when I see you, it still feels like you kind of have this like, it's almost like a politician where you know those motherfuckers just running around into their 80s.

Like, you know, I don't like Donald Trump, but it's like where like this energy level that he has seems pretty unbelievable. So is, do you choose to like continue to push yourself and move around like that? Because it kind of sounds like you're doing a lot of this label work and business stuff while also being on tour and doing a couple hours of DJing every night or whatever it might be. Yeah. I'm out in about a lot. It's, it's wild because, you know, I've really, I'm really like a homebody at heart. Like if I'm not working, I've really loved. to be in a crib like I'm a movie buff I will stay in the crib if I'm not working on the

weekends I don't want to go nowhere like I'm putting on on demand or Netflix but you know thankfully the type of career I have or you know the type of job I have it calls on me to be out and about a lot so you know I am able to be in a lot of places and you know just even DJ like I don't have to DJ clubs anymore you know I'm saying like you know um But I still do it because I like to stay in the mix. I like to stay fresh and current. You know what I mean? Like there was a point in my life like when I was like maybe like 37, 38 where I told my business partner Lake like, like, yo, when I turn 40, bro, like I don't want to be in the clubs no more.

Like I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be the old nigga in the club. And then, you know, I turn 40 and like around 41. and then like I wasn't, I wasn't working as much, you know, because I didn't want to. And then I guess I just got back into this mold where I was like, you know, definitely, I remember during COVID too, you know, I used to never would be outside in Atlanta. I live in Atlanta, but I would never go out. I would just, you know, I would go out when I go to work.

So during the pandemic, Atlanta was wide open and I found myself like being outside, going to clubs. And it was like one of the reasons was because I just didn't want to get. stagnant I didn't want to get stale like I wanted to know what was still like going on like musically and like what was hot in the clubs and things like that because you're only going to be able to figure out so much from the internet versus really being there right you can't like you can't you can't be in the club especially like you know I'm not doing clubs for people my age like I'm doing clubs for a younger audience so you know you got to know what's what's really going on out there

and you can't do that without really being in tune you know so um so so you Yeah, I play that role with Tom's, but there's definitely a part of me that is a homebody and loves to be in the crib, you know? And like, if I don't have to be there, like if I'm not getting paid to be there, I might not necessarily be there, but I'm blessed to, you know, have to be a part of the Grammys

or, you know, I'm putting an album out, so, you know, have listening parties and, you know, interacting with artists and things of that nature. So it's a balance. It's a balance. It's a balance. You require old man time at this point in your life?

Because that's how I kind of feel is like I can work my ass off all day. But like at some point it's going to catch up a little bit to the point where I need to like actually get a really good night's sleep. I need to actually get some quality couch time. Oh yeah, yeah. I definitely make sure to get sleep for sure. Like, you know, I mean I've created a regimen for myself where, you know, I wake up, I go to the gym. I'd take my shots in my smoothie and I'd try to drink my gallon of water

and if I'm in Atlanta for the most part I'm at the studio and then I'm going home and I'm going to bed like I'm not out in the strip club and every night like that's not what I do When did that stop being appealing? You know, it never really I never really was that guy to be honest

and that was some of the misconception like even early on in my career Like, even when I was coming up, like, if I wasn't working, I was like in the crib, putting together mixtapes, like literally putting together mixtapes to go hustle to move them around. So, like, when I kind of like got on and became DJ drama and I had records, there were like DJs that at one point felt like, yo, drama don't come out and show us love. He don't fuck with us. Like, he don't be out. And I was like, nigger, I never really was out. Like, it's not like I got on and stopped going out.

I never was out like that, you know, but, you know, it's a sensitive world, so people want to feel the love and for you to show love. And I respect that and I get it. But I never like, strip clubs have been around for being outside. Like, that shit is not going nowhere. And it's been here forever. So, you know, it's very rare that I get FOMO for sure. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, but there's an extent to which...

Like, some people still probably enjoy that, like, being in a strip club every night. Right. No, no, no, no. I know. And I'm going to be real with you, like, I remember time periods in my 20s where I thought that every stripper was hot as fuck.

Any strip club I went to seemed so cool. And then I just get to a point in my life where it's like, I've met 50,000 girls like the ones who are on stage. I know ways that I could get in communication to y'all with y'all if I really wanted to spend time with you or whatever it's not like I need to come here and throw money to try to make a good impression and you know I just I understand the business model too much it's like there's nothing cool to me about spending thousands of dollars on bottles I don't really get it

I don't know I feel like I just at some point you just start to know too much and it makes it hard to enjoy that shit a thousand percent a thousand percent I can't agree more yeah but uh but then at the same time like that is kind of where a lot of the the records pop off or a lot of the energy comes from Yeah, it definitely is, you know, it's, it's part of the job. I can't front, like, you know, there's, it's definitely where some of the energy comes from, from the music and the records. And, again, part of it is, you know, shaking hands and kids and babies. Yeah, relationships in general, right?

Yeah, for sure. Is that something that you've always kind of had ingrained in you, is that you just understood the value of the relationships that you were building for, in the music industry and outside of it? For some, somewhat. I mean, I just think it's good to be a, a good human being or a stand-up person, you know, so, you know, those are just like morals just in any part of life, but, you know, relationships are definitely key. And for me, you know, even at a time when, like, I might not be in the mix all the time, like,

I like to think that I have the type of relationships with people that, like, if needed, if needed, like, I'm, to call, like, if you need me, pick up the phone and like, yo, draw, I need you for so-and-so, I'm there for you, you know, and vice versa, you know what I mean? So I feel like I have longstanding relationships with, with a lot of individuals, you know, that, whether it's artists or, you know, managers, producers, what have you, that, you know, we've been in this business so long and have run across each other

and done so many things together. So, like, you know, I definitely, take pride and just, you know, being a stand-up individual and stand-up person. I bet that wherever you're at now, though, is a lot less complicated than back in the day having to try to figure out these mixtapes and having to deal with, like,

people who had beef on them, not to mention like people wanting their songs appearing in certain orders and stuff. I was listening to a podcast the other day where they were talking about, fuck, who was it? Oh, it was Norrie. Norie got really, really mad at DJ Clue at one point, because he told them, don't put me on your tapes

unless I'm in the top five on the tape. Did anyone ever try to say anything like that to you? Well, first five songs. By the time, by the time my mixtapes really became a thing, it was past that era. So the era that I was,

that I came up in was more like the projects that I were doing were gangster girls where they were all based around individual artists. So, you know, during that era where like the top, slots mattered. I wasn't hot yet, so nobody really gave a fuck about where they were on my tape. Interesting. Yeah. So I got to skip that one. Definitely. I saw them, all right, so I saw a clip when I was searching your name on YouTube last night. I saw a clip of academics on Vlad, and I don't know if you talked to him about this today, but you said, or he said that he thought

that the rift or the sort of stalemate between you guys and Uzi might have occurred once Uzi saw the royalty statements for XO Torlite. Yeah, he brought that up. Okay. Well, here, let's double down. What, uh, is there any truth to that? No. Really?

No, because it was already, it was already happening. I reminded him that like, Uzi started taking shots on social media at me when people started, um, addressing or attacking him about putting out music. And so he started to point the finger in my direction saying, drawing. and drum or they're holding up the music, you know what I mean? So the exotor life shit was just total nonsense. Like the numbers, like it said the song made 50 million or bro, we didn't even make five million off the record. Like really?

Yeah, and people have to put in comparison, like, no, not comparison, but put in the understanding, okay, Generation Now as a label is owned by myself, Lake Show, Layton Morrison, and Don Cannon. And we split our percentage three ways. And every deal that we've ever structured, the artist has always gotten a larger percentage than we get. So let's just clarify that.

So whatever amount that they're getting is always been more than what we're getting. And then whatever amount we're getting, we're splitting three ways. So, yeah, it was never a financial, it was never a financial issue. It wasn't. What was the major holdup at that time? There never was. I mean, it never was spoken upon. It was always that said that we don't want him to drop or they don't want me to drop music. But it's like, bro, we not want you to drop music. Like, we don't gain from that. From most artists, taking a big long hiatus like that is kind of a death sentence. He's like the rare artist is hot enough that it didn't matter, right? It's pretty dope to watch, you know. I mean, you know, he's had the, you know, he's had. those moments where, you know, it's been like people have been fiend in for Uzi music.

And then, you know, he takes his time with the music. And now he's in another great spot with I just want to rock. And then he's definitely, you know, like people have been waiting on the pink tape. And it's pretty much complete. Like it's really about to come out, like real shit. And how involved in that are you? Me, myself, not so involved, but like Canon is. is very, very involved.

Him and Kenan have been working, like, religiously, you know, on the project and in music, and which, you know, was always a lot of what the relationship was. Like, Ken and Uzi were pretty much, like, the ones in the studio, working on his sound and, you know, finding the pockets and, you know, on the creative aspect. And Lake was very influential. and hands-on when it came to vert's business

and touring and things like that. And I was just, for the most part, for a vert situation, just the one like waving the flag early on, like little Uzi-Vert, little Uzi-Vert, you know, hey, this is the new guy, you know what I'm saying? So, and then once he became the guy, you know, my role kind of wasn't as necessary, you know what I'm saying?

And so right in there kind of contains, like, the problem that happens with a lot of artists, right? which is that they need you so bad when you sign them. And then as time goes by, they need you less. I sign only fans, girls. So this is my main understanding of this. Yeah. And that could be kind of weird because you're trying to continue to participate.

Right. And then they're like, what do I need you for? Right. Yeah. And if it was a software company, it would just be understood. Like, I own 20% of this business. It is what it is. Like, I'm getting paid.

Right. But with rappers, it's like, why am I giving me this money? What are you doing for me? Because every song and every performance, or whatever, everything feels like it's them doing. Right. You know, it's like that's my labor. Yeah.

Um, I think that's always been part, you know, that's probably always the issue in the music business just in general, like through time, like, you know, artists, you know, I mean, they don't realize or understand the value of equity, you know what I'm saying? Like the reason why we're investing this amount of money time and so many things early on is for the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, come, the game comes later in artist's career, you know, I just think a lot of times they look and

they're like, hold on, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm hot, like, I did this, you know what, and, unfortunately, you know, they forget a lot of what, you know, how you allow them to stand on their shoulders. And, and, and by me saying this, I'm not even speaking directly on like my artists or like our situations. I'm just saying that's just how it seems it's been in the music business in general. Like a wise man once told me that a wise man once said to him in a music business like, yo, you only, you really only get like three years with the artists. And then it's like shit goes left. Right.

So you consider that like almost a sure thing at a certain point? I mean, I've seen it time and time again. I'm not gonna lie. Like, you know, it's very rare that, you know, artists, I feel like stay with their original team or stay around the ones that they, you know, kind of started with, you know. We see a lot of times when they start, you know,

changing management or changing teams or just like, you know, it happens. So how do you insulate yourself or prepare for that when you're dealing with somebody like Jack Harlow who I have no idea what you guys' relationship is like, but it's obvious that whatever he was making three years ago, he's making an extreme multiple of that now. Like, you have to kind of like anticipate shit getting a little rocky, right? Like, how do you prep for that?

I mean, I don't anticipate getting rocky. I mean, you know, you would love to go to every artist early on and be like, yo, like, let's just remember where we are now. Like, when you make it, like, don't. don't go left you know I'm saying so um you know Jack's just a good guy like he's a he's a solid individual good human being and you know his his rise and his success like obviously it's changed him in the sense of like his discipline and his focus and like you know he's not somebody that go you don't see Jack at the parties or the strip club or things like that like the guy

doesn't even drink like he's very he's very tunnel vision for what he wants to accomplish um but yeah i mean there you know there there could potentially be rocky times and you know but there's there's always like there's a love and a respect there so you know um i think i think in general there's just you know it happens a lot behind the scenes that we don't even know about in certain instances obviously we live in the world today where a lot of things get publicized but you know I mean just like with vert like you know it was a rocky

row for a minute but we got over the hump and you know we're in a great space now I mean you talked about your black side being dominoes is it kind of interesting working with an artist who I mean clearly Jack Harlow's touch you know in touch with black culture but he is very much a white guy

absolutely well what I loved about him from day one was his authenticity and the fact of him not trying to be something he wasn't and you know just being comfortable in his own skin you know what I mean like Jack never kind of came off like you know he was um like I think that he he understands and respects the fact that he is a visitor to the culture, but he also attacks it and approaches it like, yo, like, I want to be one of the greats. Like, yeah, I'm white, but beyond that, like, I'm a hip-hop artist, and like, I'm going for the gust, though, you know, point blank period, whoever's on my left, whoever's on my right,

whoever's in front or whoever's in back of me, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like in 2023, like, you know, we've seen, you know, I mean, shit, one of, one of the, the, the, the top rapper of all time, you know, is half Jewish white kid. You know what I'm saying? I mean, he's also black, you know what I mean? As I am, but, you know, there's no, at this point in this stage in hip hop, like, I don't think there's a, it's so genre bending in so many ways that, you know, anything could necessarily go.

Yeah, hip hop can be so many things now. Whereas when, you know, rewind to the height of gangster girls or, you know, 20 years ago, I mean, hip hop was a very specific thing for the most part. I mean, we were just talking about the roots. They were a real outlier. Absolutely. But like the kind of stuff you were doing

on gangster girls was pretty, I don't want to say one dimensional, but it fit into a certain lane. It did. And now none of us are surprised when we see a little Naz-X popping off or a Lizzo, which is not necessarily a rapper, but you know, like a Jack Harlow, etc.

Like we all understand, I know tons of country rappers. Right. Who pretty much just, you know, market themselves to like a country. audience and seem to be doing very well and they're not really like mainstream but they do they're clearly living very very well i mean there's there's a shitload of lanes that all are inside of hip-hop what was interesting is i even wanted to make like when i started gangster grills like like you said it was definitely somewhat one-dimensional and like it was the southern trap brand but you know

because of even my roots in hip-hop or like um my lineage like when i got the opportunity to branch out and to do like a Farrell Gangster Grills or do like a little brother Gangster Grills or like I mean I've literally ran the gambit from from the guys I mentioned to Chris Brown to Jeremiah to Deb Prez to Rhapsody to Childish Gambino to even just recently like

winning a fucking Grammy with Tyler the Creator for Gangster Grills or a Dreamville like you know like I wanted to take the brand in various directions just for that, for it to be somewhat multidimensional and to be able to encompass like all facets of the culture and not just be seen as this one thing because that's how I live in brief hip hop.

Like, you know, I wanted to listen to fucking The Chronic just as much as I wanted to listen to De La Sol. You know what I mean? And like I think that, you know, it all can have its lane and its direction. and all live and breathe under the same, you know, home. Definitely. Do you give a shit at all when you see people on Twitter complaining about you saying the N-word?

Hmm, I think it's funny. Yeah, I don't, I definitely don't give a shit. Like, you know, I like to, like, my man Barry Hefner put a tweet up the other day. Like, what is it in an artist's brain that makes them look past the thousand positive comments and focus on like the two three four negative comments so like you know i'll see people like complain about me saying nigger or me screaming on tapes or something like that but i like to have fun with it like you know i'll i'll troll them back but like at this point i'm like my thing is like bro like do y'all really think i would been able to get away with saying nigger this long like and if i was not black like that

that shit just kind of blows my mind. Like y'all really think, like, after being in a game this long on these many mixed tapes, DJ drama with this pale-ass, light-ass skin, saying nigger, like, you don't think someone would have checked me by now? Is that part of you that's like, listen, if someone was going to check me, it was going to be Gucci-Mane, it was going to be, it was going to be, like, one of many. Somebody would have checked, yeah, clearly, Clifford Harris would have been like, hold on now, my guy like I don't know about that but you know I mean hey people don't know my name is

Tyrese and K. Simmons so right you know thankfully my parents gave me a black ass name but uh fair yeah it comes with the territory you know I mean but it doesn't bother me by all I think it's funny yeah I mean I was interviewing this girl Rella from Harlem I think she's from her she's from the Bronx or something like that she's a like drill rapper from New York yeah I think she's a quarter black like her dad is half black okay and she's says it like it's nothing. And I've seen like a clip from our interview going super viral of someone just saying, you are not black, you are not allowed to say it.

And I mean, she doesn't look black. But I mean, if she's a quarter black, I mean, I'm certainly not the one to be making these rulings or anything. But it's kind of interesting. It seems like the rules have maybe shifted a little bit where if you're not if you don't look black, they maybe don't want to give it to you. Yeah, because they give logic a hard time about it too. Like, you know, but I mean.

He's a black man, you know? I mean, I went on tour with the guy, and when he found out, I was black and white. He was ecstatic. Really? Yeah, he didn't know. But, yeah, I don't know where the, you know, I see them, like, give Fat Joe a hard time or, like, give Khaled a hard time. Like, you got to stop it. Like, you got to stop it.

Like, you know, if obviously, you know, if it's a white person, you know, it's a no-go. But a person of color, like, I don't know. I mean, that's just how I grew up, you know, so, you know. But I'm not the judge in the jury of who can say the N-word and who can't, you know what I mean? It is kind of fascinating in the way that the culture just this, I feel like people are going to be talking about this until the end of time. Yeah, for sure. I got to check that girl out you're talking about. I'm curious, like, because then she's, because her father is half black, so, but then her mother

is what, white? Puerto Rican, I think. Oh, her mom's Puerto Rican. Her dad's half black. Yeah, I mean, and she's from New York. Like, she probably grew up, saying, a nigga, her whole life. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. When I'm, like, seeing, like, you know, she's from the projects. She's like, fucking, she grew up in an environment where she probably didn't, almost never had anybody tell her not to say it until she got relatively well-known, you know. Right. But she looks white. She looks like a Puerto Rican chick to be. Okay. All right, cool. Yeah. Interesting.

But, okay. What are your thoughts on the media's role in curating music at this point? Because I heard you talking kind of fondly about the not right days and the blogs and everything and how, you know, and even before that, like the magazines and everything, there were all these forces in hip-hop that were kind of doing the best that they could to tell you what was important. And I mean, when you look at a lot of like, if you pick up an old double XL magazine, it was. will astound you how transparent the relationship is between the advertisers and the content. Like, oh, the exact people that you guys are covering are also the people who have multiple full page ads. I'm sure that's a big coincidence. As a kid, there weren't enough rappers for me to notice that this was just how this worked, you know? And I feel like things have changed a lot where you know, you get playlists now. It feels like that shit's all bought and paid for.

I don't know exactly how it works. But how do you feel about that? It feels like maybe there's no taste makers or at least not that many yeah i mean i said a long time ago like you know there's there's not enough gatekeepers in hip-hop like who's letting these whack niggas in the door somebody got to stop giving out the the combination um but like playlists have literally become what mixtapes were and you know like people work hard to get on them and you know there's obviously politics behind it you know i mean i would feel like that's somewhat like paola right if you like pay to get on a playlist. Yeah, I mean, I don't know exactly how it works,

but I know the artist signed to labels, and then all of a sudden it seems like they become incredibly popular on playlist. And they get on playlist. Yeah, but I mean, I just think at the end of the day, I think I think playlists are becoming somewhat overrated in a sense of importance. Like,

I don't think that playlists have the power that we once may have thought they had. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, just necessarily getting on a playlist. doesn't equate to your record being out of here. Like, the people still have to, you know, wanna listen to that record or hear that song. So, you know, I don't live and die by that.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's not the most important or key element. But, you know, you also gotta play the game. Like, you love to turn a playlist on and see your music or see, you know, music from your artists or your label that's on the playlist. but outside of that you know i just believe in discovery just in it in its own in itself yeah it's weird though because like discovery with music a lot of times now is just scrolling through tic talk yeah that's

that's that's wild to think too like that's that's really fucking wild you're on ticot i'm not i mean not and and i probably should be i mean i have people working for me that's that are on ticot but like i'm definitely not on ticot scrolling through looking for music it's occurred to me though if like i wanted to the next rapper that probably it would make sense to just scroll Twitter or excuse me, TikTok a couple hours a day. Like, because a lot of labels, when I talk to artists, the labels just tell them,

like, we need you to be going hard as fuck on TikTok. We need you making multiple TikToks a day. Yeah. That's the only way. Yeah, they do that shit. My label does that shit to me too. And I'm like, I'll just, I turn it over. I'll give them some content and put up

and let them turn it over. But, like, TikTok is very powerful. I mean, shit, right now I have a song from, what, 11 years ago, future Big Boy Caught In The Way Around It was the remix That's going insane on TikTok

Was it sped up? No, there's like a dance that goes along with it There's like a dance and like a saying That goes along with it So it was like it was in like the top five TikTok in the U.S. just recently And that blows it up on streaming services And everything as well?

Absolutely. Yeah, that shit went went through the roof. So. that makes up for the fact that you make like 50 cents for a billion views on tictock yeah so shout out to ticot for that you know somebody told me the numbers between what ticot paid the music industry and what youtube paid the industry the music industry and i don't want to disclose it like i'm like i want to tell you off air but like it's insane it's like youtube's like a hundred thousand times more maybe insane yeah it's like insane like insane like insane like insane like

It was unbelievable when they told me that shit. I couldn't even believe it. And so I was listening to an interview with one of the ladies who works for the venture capital firm or like whatever the bank, the firm is that bought De La Sol's catalog. Yeah. And she's, it was really interesting because even though she was the super stiff corporate person, she's talking about like how this is a good investment for them and how they plan on being able to market it and, you know, make money from placements and movies and stuff, which really matters. Absolutely. about some of those songs, you hear them in movies and they sound perfect, but they haven't really been able to be utilized in movies because of all the samples and everything.

Right, right. And so I'm listening to her talk about it, and they're asking her, like, how do you feel about TikTok? And she's like, their pitch is that it's a discovery app. So that's why you make jack shit on it is because this is about discovering music. Now, this clearly was not a very convincing argument to her either because, you know, yeah, people are discovering shit on there, but it's not like it converts one to one from from TikTok to streaming services at all.

Like, I don't know. TikTok's getting the fuck over. Yeah. Insanely. Yeah. They are getting over. Boy, oh, boy. Yeah.

Okay. Have you ever thought about selling your catalog? Or part of it. Yes. A lot of people in your position are doing so right now and walking away with gigantic bags. Yeah. We've had some conversations. We definitely have had some initial conversations and are in some,

conversations so um you know something on the table it's kind of interesting though because i mean i'm sure you got enough money but i could use some more i mean they said metro got 70 million yeah that's nice very few people i know metro boomen don't need 70 million yeah everybody kind of needs 70 million at some point right everybody needs 70 million i need 70 million and i mean people make a good point it's like i mean you could keep making a million dollars a year for the next, you know, 40 years that you're alive, or you could take this bag now. Exactly.

And, you know, we all have this idea in our head that we're going to, like, make all this stuff in our life and then we're going to give it to our kids. Right. In reality, your kids probably know what to do with, like, some money better than they would know what to do with your cattle. Real shit. Or your, you know, YouTube channel. They probably don't, sometimes don't even know what to do with the money.

Yeah. I asked my girl that the other day, well, if I died right now, and let's say that you own no jumper, who are you selling it to? And she just freezes. She's like, I have to sell it. I'm like, well, I mean, unless you want to spend your life running it, probably. And like, I'm like, actually, you know, you should just talk my account. My account can probably create a little bidding war type thing that you could help manage and everything. But I mean, it is kind of crazy to think about, like, what happens to the catalog after you die. I mean, listen, you know, I'm at that, I'm at a point in my life where, you know, I've probably lived at least two thirds. Hopefully, you know,

I have another half of my life to live out. But you know, you do think about those things. And if I'm in a position where, you know, I can get $100 million tomorrow or $150 million tomorrow for our catalog, like I would much rather do that and be able to, you know, utilize that money and do something with it instead of like continue to hold out. And, you know, not and what, get a couple million every year. in a sense, you know what you can do with 70 million?

You know what I mean? You know what you can do with 30 million? You know, like, I can, and if you can't, like, I can clearly turn 30 million into $100 million or $100 million into $250. That's the problem, though. I haven't thought that far ahead. I do not know what the fuck I'm doing with $70 million. Yeah.

Besides sitting in the bank and probably paying taxes on it. Well, yeah. I mean, so then you got to pay the portion of your taxes on it. But, you know, I mean, you're a smart guy. I'm sure you have, you know, somewhat of a portfolio. So, you know, you've made enough money. I'm sure there's investments and things that are part of your portfolio outside of no jumper that's making you money. So that's my thing with it.

Like, yeah, if I can cash out and then, you know, move that money into other places to do, you're fucking right. But are you invested in a lot of, like, non-rap things? In a sense. I noticed that with QC. Some things. QC, they just sold the cattle, or they, you know, sold the company and everything. But I noticed that they bought like 30 bojangles, like, right before that. And I was, that was kind of a moment where I was like, oh, so y'all are planning on being rich forever and not needing to depend on finding the next hot artist.

You got to. You got to. I mean, you know, me and my partner have a company where we, you know, we own apartment buildings. You know, I'm an investor in Liquid Death. Oh, really? Yeah, I'm an investor in some, some other things as well, you know. You have a 50-cent vitamin water return from that yet? We haven't gotten a return yet. But, you know, shout the liquid death for sure.

My man Cannon has a Tomorrow app, which is doing incredibly well that, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I just think at this stage in the game, like, you know, definitely you got to put your eggs in various baskets. Like, all my money is not coming in. and strictly from music, you know. So I've made some good investments and put my money in some places that have enabled me to make money while I sleep.

Right, yeah, I was astonished when I realized how much money you were, well, you didn't say the number, but how much you were making from dat piff and shit back in the day? Oh, yeah, it was insane. I mean, literally, like, I was making more money in the dat piff era than I made, like, before when I was, like, hustling mixtapes on my own. See, I would not have known...

Shit was crazy. I would not have known that the ad space that they were selling them in the position to give you that much money. And what was so crazy to me was what and and I used to almost kind of get mad at myself because I was like, damn, like if that PIF is able to give me 50, 60, 70 grand a month for doing these tapes and making them exclusive to them. Like imagine what they're making.

It's like, damn, why didn't I think of, why didn't I think to build this app? Like my name was strong enough and big enough in the mixtape game that. I could have potentially did it myself and did like drama like the DJ.com and that would be the go to site for all things mixtapes. But you know in hindsight like you know I did very well salute.

Shout to my man KP. Like we had a great partnership. You would have got washed away once the streaming area came in. Yeah, I mean that's true too. So you know. But there was a big rumor that Dappiff was officially offline the other day

but then I saw it confirm that it no, it's still online. Although I don't think that they're putting out new stuff on there maybe. Yeah. It's weird. But it's like, You know, that shit is a vital space because that's where a lot of art and music lives that doesn't live anywhere else, you know, that's not available on the DSPs, you know? And it's like, if we were to lose that, we lose so much of, like, a rich history and culture that's so important to hip hop, you know what I mean?

So I should need to get figured out, you know, I mean, it's because there could be a period where we lose. you know, that music and that time, you know what I mean? Like until, you know, and it's probably damn near impossible, but like I would love to bring the whole Gangster Girls Catalogue to the DSPs, but it's like, you know, it's something I'm working on slowly but surely, but just in general, like, you know, there's so much music out there from that era

that could potentially just be forgotten about. I know, sometimes I will think of like an old dipset song, like, and I can remember like a lyric or two, And I'll be sitting there on Google trying to type in the lyric and just find it and I can't fucking find it. And then it kind of occurs to me like, I was on some random mixing. Real shit. That nobody remembers and probably has some crazy sample in it. And, you know, maybe it is out there, but like it's going to be tough.

Yeah. It's tough. Yeah, it's tough. So. And that's what's dope about, like, where out the space I've been in recently. Like, and I think that has brought the excitement back. Like, you know, when people listen to the GZ snowfall, or hear me on Dreamville or Tyler or the multiple projects I've been doing.

It's like it's that mixtape feel from that time. You know what I mean? And it's like for those who are around during that time, it's like they get the nostalgia of it. For those who it's new to, it's like, oh, this is dope. Like, you know, this is kind of like a new concept to them that they're getting familiar with. You know what I mean? So I think that's why like, you know, because of the success of Call Me If You Get Lost

and the other projects I've been doing, like I've been on this run with Gangsta Grills where the resurgence of it is because, you know, people miss that feel. Like, you know what I mean? And it's like, that's what separated a mixtape from an album. And before I was in this space, people were just using the word mixtape,

throwing it around because they were fearful of calling some shit their album. Now it's like, okay, we're going to get drama to do a mixtape and it's going to feel like a mixtape. Definitely. It's easy to, like, get up and hustle every day. when you need the money. At a certain point with you,

I'm guessing that you don't really need to work that hard. Does it make you move differently? Does it make you split up your time more? Or is this something that you live for to such an extent that it's just what you want to do day and day out? Bro, I love it so much. Like, I live, breathe, like, die for this culture.

Like, just the fact of what I've been able to accomplish, like literally thinking, like, truth, Like my only goal was to get my name on a flyer and like to think of the things that I've been able to do and accomplish through hip hop and like doing what I love to do like it it's it's my motivation like it really keeps me going like and and the fact of me even like setting a new bar or being at this space of like turning it up a notch you know what I mean like just that opportunity. only alone is it drives me like it like I'm I'm addicted I'm not going to lie like and I have somewhat of an addictive personality and thankfully you know it's a great addiction but like I'm addicted to the culture I'm addicted to putting on and discovering new shit and being a part of new shit and just like you know really leaving a legacy behind like when I when I leave this earth like I really want people to be like, yo, like, Dram did some amazing things for the culture.

That's real. Okay, I'm going to hit a little clickbait here. Is Uzi a Satanist? He did, he was on, TMZ caught him on Rodeo the other day. And I didn't see the clip, but when I was in the airport, I ran into my guy at TMZ. And he said they asked him about that. And his response was no. I basically was saying or describing that I could sell water to a well.

So in a sense, I guess his definition or the way he wanted to put it was like he was just kind of saying like or putting it out there like, you know, I can make people or get people to believe whatever I want them to. know. Right. I mean, because I grew up... I hope he's not. Right. Yeah. Okay. I grew up listening a lot of like metal and stuff too. And a lot of these bands, yeah, a lot of these bands will say some shit about Satan and they have a pentagram on their shirt, whatever. Like Pantera and Megadeth and Metallica. It's like watching a horror movie. A hundred percent. The guy who makes the horror movie is not a serial killer. A hundred percent. He just likes some dark imagery and he wants to make a movie that has a bunch of crazy violent shit going on or whatever. And I can agree more. And when I look at Uzi and also Cardi.

Yeah. They like tried to out devil each other at rolling loud. Yes. And I kind of, I appreciate what they're bringing to the game because a lot of people in hip hop have like no familiarity with like metal or this kind of stuff at all. So to them, this is like very foreign and edgy. Right. And I appreciate them like bringing that kind of energy to the field and making these normal ass people at Rolling Loud have to deal with the fact that they've never seen Cardi going or whatever the hell he's doing. Yeah, that's definitely your white side talking. for sure, but I mean, maybe my white side can understand that as well. But yeah, I mean, I don't disagree with you, you know what I'm saying? I don't think neither of them are at home like worshipping the devil or, you know, I'm a firm believer that, you know, they're both, you know, believers in God and, you know,

don't want to go to hell. I know I don't. And I'm not, you know, someone who, advocates or promotes that. Because I even, when I posted vert on my page from rolling loud, like, I got a lot of, like, like, clearly my fan base was not the fan base that was into that. And, you know, I was just reading through the comments and everything, but I agree with you. I mean, I'm, I'm the same way.

Like, I look at what I do, like, being a movie director. So, you know, I can get a, look, I make gangster grills. Like, I'm a, I'm a college kid. Like, you know, I'm not a gangster. You know, I've never, I've never sold drugs a day in my life. You know what I'm saying? You know, I'm not, you know, I'm a real one, though, for sure. And I keep some real ones around me.

But, you know, because I make gangster grills, I'm also like, you know, I'm a father. I'm fucking, I love to be in the crib and watch fucking documentaries and comedies all day. So, yeah, I think people sometimes may take things a little too literal or, you know, don't look at it in the frame that you just described it. And I think it's somewhat unfair, you know? I mean, and even through Tom, like, you know, three, six mafia, like in the name, or, you know,

there was a Tom in a space where we had grave diggers. And, you know, I mean, what Uzi's doing may not be for everybody. What Cardi's doing may not be for everybody. But obviously, there's a huge fan base that does enjoy it and that does love it. But, you know, I don't think at the end of the day you know, it means that you have to want to go to hell or be a Satan worshiper.

Yeah, because from my experience, even, I don't know that I've met anybody who like worships Satan. I know a lot of people who like the aesthetic of it, the imagery of it, they might want to wear a shirt with a Satan thing going on or whatever, but the average person, like, okay, if you, if you're like that type of person,

you probably don't believe in God. You probably don't believe in the Bible, and therefore you probably don't even believe that there's anything like heaven or hell or Satan. You know, if I had to guess if Uzi's like, I don't know if he believes in God or not,

but the opposite of believing in God is usually just not believing in God, not worshipping Satan. Right, yeah. I agree. It's kind of a thing in the culture right now, not like the rap culture, but I noticed like a very similar thing

with Sam Smith, who was like a pop performer. And he's had like a performance wearing all red and like kind of suit. And everybody decided that was satanic as well. I mean, You know, and even in hip hop, like, there's been a big thing for years just about, like, the Illuminati and, like, you know, the eyes and, you know, people like different symbols and symbolism. And I think through time, people have played off that, you know what I'm saying?

And just like, you know, I don't think they're really in the Illuminati, you know, or I've never been invited to the meetings for sure. But, you know. And at this point, you probably would have been. Yeah, I would think so. I would hope so by this point I would have gotten some type of invitation but yeah so you know I just think people need to you know take a take a deep breath you know let creatives be creatives and you know I mean again like ask the man the question and let him answer how he appropriately wants to answer and you know give him give him the that benefit to you know have the freedom

to express himself the way he wants to. One more clickbait question. Okay. There was a thing when Jack Harlow was shooting the video with Drake and they were at the Kentucky Derby or some shit. And there was like a photo of a bunch of black security guards, I believe it was, carrying him over the mud. Yeah.

And now like this is pretty understandable to me. They're like he's shooting a music video. He can't get his shoes dirty. A lot of people like felt the need to take issue with the optics of it. I mean, bro, like, what did they want, what did they want him to do? Like, get his shoes dirty? Like, if I was, I wasn't there at that moment, I don't know where I was, but shit, I would have suggested as well. Like, hey, like, make sure my man doesn't get his fucking shoes dirty.

Like, right now he's the golden child of Kentucky. Like, and we're at the Kentucky Derby. We're shooting a video. My man needs to make sure he's clean. So obviously the optics of the picture was because it was a white man and it was black men around him carrying him that they took such issue with. But again, that comes along with the territory. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that's just the space that, you know, any white person within the culture is going to have to deal with when things like that come upon.

So, and I think more importantly, it's like how you handle that, you know what I'm saying? And so, like, if Jack would have jumped out the window and, you know, said something ignorant back or something, I'd be like, oh, no, you know what I'm saying? It's nothing to respond to. Like, you know, like, come on, guys. Like, you're just reaching at this point. Like, you're just reaching. Like, if it would have been a black artist or African-American artist, of someone of color in the same position,

would they have had the problem? You know, so I would think not. But at the same time, like, I get it. You know, I do get it. So I don't wanna say that I don't understand where some of those feelings and emotions come from, especially when we're talking about something like the Kentucky Derby that, you know,

honestly may have some history of racism involved in, Like, you know, I'm not a historian when it comes to that, but, you know, everyone has an opinion. And in this day and time, we can see everyone's opinion. Listen, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Take it how you want. But it's like, my man didn't need to get his shoes dirty. Have you had the Jack Harlow KFC meal? Yes, I did.

I did it. What's special about it? I'm not even sure. Oh, man, it's amazing. It's fucking amazing. It's like, no. A lot of those McDonald's meals, I'm not even sure what the difference is. Isn't there like a Cardian offset one?

Yeah, but I didn't even, I never figured out what the difference was. They like add like one. Yeah. Like, it's like the Travis Scott meal and it'll be like an extra pickle and mustard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like a little like barbecue sauce for the fries. It's like you can get the barbuck, you already have barbecue sauce. Some shit like that.

It's hilarious. You got to respect it, though. DJ Drama, could you imagine a fast food collab in your future? Oh, that would be fire. Damn, who could I do it with? Bojangles. Hey, you know, I'm called Coach and P. Yeah, for sure.

You got an in. Oh, shit. All right. Yeah, man, anything coming up that we need to be aware of? Well, yeah, the album. I'm really like that. March 31st. My first studio album in about six years, I'm quite excited about.

You know, everybody's got Tyler on the album, Oozies on the album, Jackson album, Wayne, Gucci, 42 Doug, free Doug, Roddy Rich is on there, A Boogie, Little Baby, Mazi, Saha, La Russell, Gucci, GZ, Nipsey, rest of peace. Blast is on there.

G Herbo is on there, Vori's on there. Yeah, it's action-packed. So, you know, I'm really like that. I want to make sure everyone definitely goes and checks the album out. I'm super excited. Got a tape with Fabio Forrin, I got a deluxe coming kind of soon.

That's gonna be pretty dope. Push-a-T gangster grills. I got another gangster grills that I just finished. That's definitely gonna shake some shit up. How many people are helping you with this kind of stuff? I know you said you have a good team and everything, but like it just sounds like a lot of work and a lot of different things to be focusing all at the same time. And it just sounds like overwhelming to figure out where to point your attention at any given time.

I mean, I got some good people around me. So, I mean, you know, we have the generation now, My album is on Monarch, so the Monarch staff, you know, our joint ventures with Atlantic, so, you know, we have help with Atlantic. So, yeah, I definitely have some great individuals and key components to, you know, this empire that I have amongst me. You like how I could have done an interview or told the whole story from the beginning, and I was like, no, I'm going to use my time here to actually ask him,

my questions about him and the industry so I could just kind of, you know, get as much information as possible. You're a great interviewer. You know, I'm always tuned in. So, you know, I have no worries. I appreciate it. Yeah, I figured the Fed case has been pretty well discussed at this point, right? It's like, I get it.

Like, you know, and then it's like, there's still people that don't know about it. So, you know, when I get asked, I just, I've come to accept that it's just, it's like, if you read if you're reading your autobiography like and it's a chapter in the story like i just got to read it like i got it it's probably like how day la soul feels about performing me myself and i yeah or something like that like you know i've talked about the raid since it's happened you know like i'd be wanted even tell people like yo just get a sound bite from the thousands of interviews i've done it's just incorporated here instead of me having to explain so It was this day, and he came with the M16s, and they arrested me for bootleg and a racketeering, but, you know, it's part of my story.

And, like, I don't know if I would be here if that wasn't part of my story, so I got to respect it. Yeah, because, like, the same way that all these artists are going to be playing their hit songs for the rest of their lives, if you're a public figure, you're just signing up to do interviews where they ask you about, like, the top 10 interesting things of your whole life. For sure. So yeah, you know, I'm, I'm savvy enough to, you know, be able to navigate through it and just, you know, when the question comes, I give the answer. Yeah. But it's like it hasn't, the answer hasn't changed much. Like, you know, there's certain things during interviews and during times that, like, you know, you might get a different response or, you know, if you look up an interview, I'll have a different hot take on a certain subject. But that is, that's going to be what it is for forever.

But it's, it's, it's an historical, you know, part of the culture, you know. And it was, it definitely was, it definitely was something that, you know, it was, was bigger than me in a lot of ways. So, you know, I got a, I got to, like, I got to own, own it in a way. And I have done for quite some time. For sure. Well, hey, man, it was an honor. Absolutely. My pleasure.

Great gets to talk to you. Definitely. inspiration. I appreciate that. Yeah, let's stay in touch for sure. Absolutely, let's get it. My man.

Yeah. No jumper. DJ drama. I'm really like that.