No Jumper - James Larese on Directing for Eminem, OhGeesy, Most Expensive Music Videos & More

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Sharps dives into the creative mind of illustrious video director James Larese, to chop it up about the business, how he navigates his way to success, artists he's worked with, how he keeps his motivation going, and more! https://www.instagram.com/tha_sharp_one/ https://www.instagram.com/jameslarese/ ----- 00:00 Intro 5:20 Wanting to direct music videos since he was 8 years old and being blown away after discovering MTV 7:00 James talks about his fascination for creating a full experience through music videos 9:10 Growing up without cable, going to a friend's house to watch MTV 10:45 James talks about putting work into a video to have it get shelved and the process of presenting treatments to labels 12:30 James on having a thick skin, rejection, and hearing “no” a lot more than “yes” in the industry 16:45 James talks about not asking “why” when your idea gets shut down 19:35 Sharp pushes James to talk his sh*t about the industry 20:15 James explains working with newer artists without big budgets because he liked the music 22:10 James on Ohgeesy being his son-in-law, witnessing the grind, and shooting the second “Musty” video 27:37 James says his largest budget on a video was $1.5 million and how budget does not dictate if it's a hit or not, Sharp is baffled 29:00 "A song ain't sh*t without a music video" Sharp talks about how music will only reach so far without a visual 29:45 Sharp praises James' work and the importance of shouting out people behind the scenes 30:44 James talks about working with Eminem on top of the Empire State Building for Jimmy Kimmel 32:00 James explains how Eminem's Empire State video performance came about, Sharp says James deserves his flower indefinitely 35:30 James says working behind the scenes is not for the recognition 40:50 The best time to get into the industry 45:40 James talks about what it takes to be a creative and how we can be our own worst enemy ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No jumper. Sharpest, coolest podcast in the world. And today, I have one of my favorite directors, in my opinion, in the building. Mr. James LaRees. Ladies and gentlemen, let me get a round of applause, man, from everybody, man. There we go.

Don't try to slow up on the clap-up, okay? Yeah. I love all y'all, man. How you doing today, man? I'm wonderful, man. I'm so happy to be here. I'm happy that you're here. I was the drive over here.

in traffic, stuck in traffic? A little bit, but, I mean, I'm from L.A., but I live in New York, so I don't drive currently. So when I'm back in L.A., and I'm back in a car, and I'm driving, I like it. So it's like, you know, I was saying with my boy on the way over here, it's just like every street. You know, when you step out of Los Angeles for a period of time and you come back in, it's like everything's heightened, you know?

Because I think every day when you see stuff, sometimes you take it for granted, you know, when you step away and all of a sudden you're on, you know, fountain and you're going past all your spots or whatever it's like oh it just it's so vivid i love that so you do you prefer do you prefer new york or l.a at this point in your life where do you where do you want to reside well i'll reside where my family is my family's currently in new york um but selfishly my own i'm i'm l.a to the bone like always forever you know i mean so but new york city is amazing. It's fucking New York. So it's like, I think you have to find an appreciation

for both of them independently for what they are and what they're not, as opposed to what they're not. Because the strengths of New York aren't necessarily the strengths of L.A. and vice versa. You know, so they each bring, I don't know, just beautiful things in life, you know, and experiences. When you're capturing art, because I consider you an artist,

you know, and when you're capturing art, do you get a different feel from different places? Like when you're in L.A., you're like, man, I want to shoot the video like this. I'm not going to feel like shooting like this in New York because it's a different feel. Yeah, absolutely. Talk about that a little bit.

The beauty of, you know, the beauty of anywhere you live, if you pay attention, is that inspiration is all around you every single day, even if it's monotonous. You know what I mean? Like you have a story that you're part of and witnessing, and that's your environment, culture, and whatnot, you know? So if you choose. If you choose to pay attention to it, there's never a lack of inspiration anyway.

Right. But depending on where you live, obviously, there's going to be way more inspiration than others. And, you know, Los Angeles obviously is a very special city. Cultural, right? Cultural, so cultural. And it's like islands, you know what I mean? Like, L.A. is so spread out, and you have these pockets that are then connected by these freeways. and so when you're in a different area, you know what I mean?

You just, you absorb that culture. And that's what's so dope about Los Angeles being so big and being diverse is that you have so many different areas that you can go to and experience a completely, almost like a completely different city, different culture, different country even. You know what I mean? That's the beauty of Los Angeles. It's like a different world when you step in one of those pockets you're talking about. But in New York, it's equally as diverse. but there's not these islands separating. You know, there is the subway that, you know,

there's the five boroughs, and you have the subway that separates it, but within each of the boroughs, your building is like, you know, when you're a kid, your class is diverse. You know, there's so many kids in your neighborhood are of all different cultures, and where I live is in Queens,

which is very, very, very diverse. And so, like, my son in his class is, he's half Spanish. and half white, but he looks more white. And in his class, besides him, there's only, like, two other white-looking kids, you know what I mean? Which is crazy because, like, he's nine. But, like, even in L.A., his class would be, you know, majority white kids,

you know what I mean? And in Los Fillas, where we stay out here. And, you know what I mean? So it's interesting. So it's, like, they have different ways. Like, in New York, it's diverse, but you're also diverse right next to each other. In L.A., it's diverse.

but there is a little bit more of a separation. So that inspires in different ways. You know what I mean? And, you know, like for instance in New York, the train, man. I mean, the train is an experience like coming from L.A., you know, our train is, you know, I don't even need to speak on it. Like, there's no comparison. Here you're in your car.

Your car is like your office or your studio or, you know, your place to think as you're going to a meeting or whatever. You know, that's your office away from your home way from home. whatever on wheels but New York you don't have that so you know the subway is is um you know it just it's a whole other experience and to experience that later in life you know i'm not you know 20 years old experience it you know i'm older now so it's like to to experience that later in life the inspiration that that brings it gives me that youthful inspired feeling from when i was a little kid you know i mean so well i love that speaking of you know because you You've worked with Sweetie, T. Payne, like you've, little Wayne, the list goes on and the people

that, like, you've been able to be a part of capturing what we say as art, you know. But I want to dive in more to, we can talk about, you know, the formative year, but I want to jump into what made you even dig into this line of work? Like, what even made you start, man, directing, like even wanting to be behind a camera and say, hey. I mean, real talk. Take your time. I've wanted to do, I've wanted to direct me. music videos specifically since I was eight years old. Period. What was the first thing you felt?

And that motherfucker right there, I've known since I was five years old, and he was there. And so for me, music, I don't know what it is, man, since I was a kid, you know, since I was little, little, music is just there. You know what I mean? Music's a foundation of everything. It's my heartbeat. Also, I think my oldest, my best friend, like, you know, music was always a big part of. him so together we just you know I think we we vibed off each other you know I mean and it was always it was always always about music and so when MTV came along right um that just it just blew it just blew my mind man it's just it's weird like something about a music video and its length it sets you know it's it's specific existence is because of a song that inspired it therefore you're putting the visual to the sound.

Like that connection, you know, I couldn't have articulated it then, but that's what I connected with. You know what I mean? I'm a very visual person, but I also know that in my life, what has inspired me the most is when I can connect with more senses than just like your eyes or just your ears. Like I want to give you an experience, you know, with what I do.

You know, one of the ways I measure like a dance video, for instance, is at some point I'll watch. it without any audio and if I'm bobbing to it then I got it because it's about catching that you know it's just getting in that pocket with the music and having it find that that balance where you're you're giving a visual equivalent to the to the sound that you're listening to you know I mean and that you know that's something it's just that has always been there in me that fascination I could give a fuck you know about doing a Pringle's commercial or a you know

longer formats and this and that, you know, at sometimes, you know, look, there's time and place for all of that, you know, and trust me, I've done it all. I've done all that, and I continue to do that, you know? The beauty of being a director is that there's a very diverse range of things that you can do. It's not just cookie cutter stuff anymore, so it's a really exciting time to be living in that space. I forgot what the question was. Oh, since I was eight years old, man. So it's just been with me my whole life. Like that's the thing is music and visuals, music and visuals. You know, we were having bands.

I decided to start playing the drums. My buddy was playing guitar. So I started taking the drums. I started in like fifth grade and, you know, I was mediocre at best. You know what I mean? Like we were in bands growing up or whatever and I was just, I was like okay, you know what I mean? But it was about the passion for me, you know what I mean? And it was like it was just about that position.

and being part of these group of individuals that are creating music, you know? Could you say it was a piece of MTV that maybe is, because you had to see it somewhere when you were young, you know, like, either you wanted to be in that music video or something had to lit that fuel, you know what, that flame in you. That's what it was definitely that, you know, is,

I mean, music video was always the thing. And what was funny is I never had cable. I didn't have cable as a kid. So we didn't have MTV in my house. house. And that was mostly just because of my parents were like, if you have time to watch a television show, you can go do this or read a book or be outside or something like that. Like, don't waste your time with television, which is funny because ultimately that's what I do now. But because of that, I would always, that fueled the fire even more because I was always like, hey, can I go over to so-and-so's house, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I just started going to people's houses that had cables so I could watch TV. You know what I mean? And I would just be that kid like knocking on someone's door and they'd be eating dinner. And then I'd be like, hey, let me just go back.

I'll be go back and watch like. I remember them day. Series of like the police videos and shit. Had a friend you used to use like that. I'm like, I ain't really his friend, but he's got cable. You know, he's got MTV. So I'm going to slide up and just goes, hey, his parents love me, man. I don't like him, but fuck it.

It's a, it's kind of a dick move. But it's endearing because you don't quite, you're not trying to be a dick. You don't understand. Man, you're a kid. You don't know. that's what you're being, you're just, you're just trying to see some things, man. But that double made it made me a fiend. And so I just, it was just about seeing it and being part of, you know, the countdowns and

who's dropping what and all that. And, you know, it was just there in my entire life, man, until now. I'm still like it. I'm still like it. Have you ever been excited to shoot something and then you do it? and it doesn't come out the way you planned or expected. Absolutely. To where you're like, man, this needs a do-over.

Like, we don't even need to put this out. And you probably put in a lot of time in it too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've, dude, I've had every experience you can imagine like that. I've had stuff where it's finally you're about to deliver it, and then it gets shelved completely. It never sees the light of day. You know what I mean?

And they've spent X amount of dollars and they did this and that. And sometimes it could be, you know, it could be because, of something that's happening in pop culture for some reason or whatever, or it could be, you know, ultimately it's not the direction they wanted to go. That's usually what it is. You know, at the end of the day, when they finally get there, it's like they want to go back to, you know, I just feel like, James, I feel like it sucks because it's like you put all this X amount of time into it. It's actually becoming stressful. You're having problems at home. You're supposed to be somewhere else, but you're spending this extra time.

it's got to feel pretty shitty when you put your time in and the outcome is where, oh, well, we're just going to shelf it, you know? Absolutely. Or the better words of what you said, this isn't the direction. That's where that shit means so many words of it could be it ain't shit. Fuck this. Why'd you even give this to us? It's just a professional way of just saying, hey, that ain't the direction that we want to go.

Some people just don't even say nothing and just block you. Yeah. I'm like, what the fuck? Well, that's true. More so is like submitting ideas, you know, because a big part of what I do is, you know, I'll be sent music. Then from there, it's like you decide if you're going to, you know,

submit an idea on it or something like that. And then if you do, then you've got to write a treatment. And, you know, everyone is savvy nowadays. I mean, it's not just like this word document anymore. Like, you know, you're giving visual references that are like embedded gifts and like all, you know, people are doing test projects for it and animatics and all this stuff. So, you know, you can't just kind of phone in these treatments,

but, you know, so you'll spend a lot, you know, sometimes I'll do like a 20-page treatment on a song that I'm really going for, and then you just won't ever hear from them again. You know what I mean? It's just, it's like, it's got to be a little discouraging, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, after a while, it's like, that's what it is. That's the name.

You don't go tell the world, James, I'm sure. Yeah. You know, you feel it, though. Absolutely. Like, you know, it's like it's a small cut. It's like a small little razor cut. Yeah. But, you know, if you can't handle, if you can't handle that,

then this is not your business. You know what I mean? Because, like, this is a thick-skinned business. Across the board. You know what I mean? Whether it's, you know, directing, acting, being a musician, whatever. Excuse me, just get water.

Oh, go ahead. I love, because the viewers need to hear this for the people that are inspiring. They need to hear people that have walked these footsteps already, man. Yeah, man. Dude, I hear, I mean, I hear no probably, definitely more than 50% of the time that I hear, yes, if not more, maybe 75% of the time. But let's look at the ones that have been, yes, they've been huge factors. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

But, you know, it's like, that's the thing is that, you know, like what you're saying, it being like a paper-class. or, you know, something along those lines, like, you know, you, for all of those nose are a different paper cut. And then that begins to heal over, and then it's like scar tissue, and then more and more before you know it, you're thick, right? You've got that thick skin. Right. And that's what it takes, you know what I mean, is because at the end of the day,

you can't ask why. You know what I mean? You just can't. Because once it's no, it's no. It's done. If you try to ask why, like, you're trying to figure out something that is not going to make sense to you because you're not going to agree with it

because they said no, you know what I mean? So it's like you need to just on to the next one, you know what I mean? But don't you agree that that's where people always run into that roadblock. They don't, it's hard to take rejection, I think, for anybody. Yes. You know, rejection is one of the hardest pills to swallow,

I think, in anybody's life, you know, is to be rejected, especially it's something you know you really put your all into. Yes. You know, so I know that's got to be, it doesn't just cut, that's a mind fuck. Yeah. It's a mind fuck because you spent 20 hours probably fucking going delirious. Yeah.

Trying to, you know, put together this perfect piece of art that you want to present to somebody. And for them not to even give it two seconds, they just breeze through it. You're like, damn. Like, you know what I meant? The first age took me four hours alone. You just fucking scrolled through it in two seconds? Or how about? Like, for real.

Or how about sometimes it won't even get to the artist? Sometimes there'll be, you know, a person that's in the pipeline of getting to the artist. It's always like a video game, right? You have all these layers that you have to get through to get to boss mode or whatever, the boss level. Right. But like, so along those ways, sometimes it'll stop at one person. And for whatever reason, maybe they even forget to for it or they themselves don't like it, therefore they don't even give it an opportunity,

it won't even get to the artist. And that's what gets frustrating because it's like, there's been times when, say even years later, I'll run into an artist who I'm like, dude, why didn't, come on, man, that was an amazing idea. Like, why didn't we even talk about it?

You know what I mean? And they'll just be like, and this could also just be the artist like not knowing or doing it off. Or blowing it off too, exactly. But, you know, sometimes, they're just like, dude, I honestly never saw it. You know what I mean? And so, um, and I do believe that.

And it's like, I think that some people need to actually allow the director and the artist to actually link because they're the people that are about to get ready to create this content. Yes. You know? Yes. I get the investors, James. I get that part. And I don't mean to interrupt, but like I get that part of the, you know, the investors have a lot

to say in what plays. But let the director and the artist. come together to create. That's what's going to be the determinant factor of all of this shit. It's not about what's perfect because what might be good for the goose might not be good for the gander, you know, it might not be good for him. He probably's like, y'all pick me some shit, y'all throw me in a life, this doesn't make me feel comfortable. Where's that other guy at, James? The goal, where's that guy? Like I said, why couldn't we had worked with him? Well, you know how they say, well, you know, he didn't fit for what we were trying to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that's, again,

you can't ask the question why, because it's an agenda that doesn't involve you. You say directing is not a Y game. You can't do that. You're going to lose. Yeah, I think you can't pay attention to those type of things. It's onward and upward, always. Because, you know, if I'm told no, 75% of the time, 25% of that time is going to have to make up for the rejection in order for me to want to continue moving on. You know what I mean? So that 25%, the joy or, the advancement or the whatever, you know, the positive, you know, the positive effects of that 25% should be massive enough to accommodate understanding, well, 75% I'm going to get rejected, but the 25% is going to be so good, it's going to make that 75% worth it, you know what I mean?

And that's just how I go, you know, and that's just, it, it's kind of worked for me, you know, And this is like that, huh, for the big dogs. Like when you really sit down with like a real top end director, like somebody, this is really their stories. They're like, I don't get picked as much as you think. But when I do, it's fucking major. But I think the reason that is is because people are scared they won't live up to your expectation. That's why you probably don't get a lot of calls. They're probably like, man, working with them, I got to really bring something.

They're not going to say that because that actually puts doubting them. of who they really are, that questions themselves like, damn. If I ever said like, damn, I'm not fucking with James because I don't think that I can bring something that he's going to want to capture. I'll never say that. I'll just say, no, I don't want to work with him. It's easier, right?

Yeah, yeah. I'm telling the truth. I think also because they, because I, you know, look, talk your shit, take your time. See, I see it's brushing to your head. I got your ass hoping. I might have to, like, You want to know about this shit?

I'm just trying to worry. I'm just trying to say it the right way. But you know, like, I would say that a big part of it is, is champagne taste and Kool-Aid money. You know what I'm talking about? And so, like, everyone wants a Porsche, but no one wants to pay for Porsche, you know what I mean? So that's a big problem.

And that's what happens is that. Always notice those dealerships are empty. Lexis full of life. Toyota. full of life. You're going to Asson Martin, Bentley, anything like that? One old lady up in there. You know what I'm saying? Getting their oil change. Yeah. And it's like, you know, look, and that's not to say like, you know, I don't put a price on things is it really is about the artist. It really is about the music. 100%. Right. Look at my resume. You'll see like,

I'll do new artists all the time. You know, last year I worked, I think it was last year, Maybe last year or two years ago, I worked with this kid named Breeland, who's a country music star, but he's a black kid from D.C. And he's fucking amazing, man. He's amazing, he's amazing. He's blown up. Like, he's doing his thing and whatnot. But, like, you know, they didn't have a lot of, they had a lot of, like, positive backing for him,

but, you know, financially they didn't have a lot to go on. But the song was so amazing. And I really, really enjoyed the artist and his management. So, you know, I jumped in head first and went for it. So it's not, it really isn't about the money. And because I know that a solid song that inspires a beautiful visual told the right way is going to add many zeros to the next project that's inspired by that. You know what I mean?

Are you open? And a question for you, are you open to working with up-and-coming artists that are maybe just on SoundCloud at the moment? You know, and I haven't really got a big break, but they're buzzing in their area, you know? Are you open for that? Are you just going to stay more mainstream? No, no, no, no, absolutely. I'm definitely open to it, you know. It just the situation has to be right.

I have to understand, you know, they can't be knuckleheads. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, you know, things have got to be, you know, and there has to be a level of professionalism for sure. You want people that are willing to work too much. Like they want to put in the work. They're just as hung. But like, for instance, my family is O'Gizi from Shoreline Mafia.

And he... O'Jee's a Shoreline Mafia. He's the... Yeah. He's the father of my grandson, basically. He's with my daughter. And he is part of this crude Shoreline Mafia. He was part of Shoreline Mafia.

And, you know, big part of... big part of LA, you know, underground and stuff. When he was a kid, he used to sleep on my couch when he was a kid, you know, and he was like, he was probably like, man, fuck him. Why is he put my business on blast right now, man? I know. I know. I told him I was coming on here. I told him I was coming on here. If I was him, I know wherever you at, bros, I felt it for you, dog. Like, damn, he put my motherfucking business out there, bro. Okay, I did sleep on your couch for a month. No, but what I'm going to say is this is that, like, for, you know, I bring him up because, you know, I'm, I bring him up

because when you're talking about working with young artists, is that I saw him in his rise, and I saw the hustle and the dedication and the work. Like, I saw it firsthand. And I took it for granted. You know what I mean? Like, you know, he came from humble beginnings, you know. And when we used to, when he would stay over and we would hang out or whatever,

he would say, you know, one day like, you know, one day, you know, we joke about doing a video for him. I was like, yeah, you know, when you get a budget or whatever. And he got a... Damn, no family discount. Yeah. He said, talking about getting a budget. He's like, yeah.

In music business, baby. He's like, yeah, you know, I love you. But when you get that budget right, you know, man. Well, what about you? You got, no, this is my money. You know what I'm saying? It's my bread, bro. No, you got to get your own.

But he, yeah, you know, so they hustled it. They got a great deal. Yeah. And, yeah, so I did it. So I did a video. It was a video for the song. Musty, I guess it was one of the bigger songs. And they had already done a video for it, but like in a true record label fashion, they wanted

to take what was already working and try to redo it. And what I did, I don't think, was really like in their style necessarily, you know, but it was just an opportunity to break them into a mainstream look and, you know, just and just kind of introduce them into that industry, the industry side of things, you know, and so it's cool. But anyways, for instance, he's someone that, like, you know, anything he would ever need or anything like that, I would definitely work with him or anyone he would ever co-signed, you know, for sure. I think the main thing is just making sure, you know, that they're real and they're about what they're doing and they're not just phoning it in. You know what I mean? And that's

why I always appreciated him. So I do have hope in young artists, you know, sometimes I wonder because it's so easy now to break, you know. so quickly if people are really prepared for the work you know it's one thing to break it's another thing to stay and have longevity you know what i mean and so when someone breaks so early and they're hot right then and they're you know everything's popping for them that's great and everyone wants a piece of them but they're not learning anything i was just talking last night about one hit wonders and how like they come out right they like they break out on this one song and this one song is the shit for however long and then they just don't bring any press behind it it's like i don't know if you're

still making music and it maybe it's not panning out but i've just noticed there be like a lot of one-hit wonders but nonetheless i got a question for you like how much what's the most money you've ever seen spent on a set like that you've had a chance to be a part of not even names but just you've had a chance of just being a part of you've seen spent like fuck they spent a fucking gaggle of money to put this into production. Oh, right. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, that, huh? Yeah. That, the money.

I would say, I would say like, yeah, the money. I mean, it's always, it's, it plays, come on, man. It plays a huge part. It is. Look, the idea, obviously is extremely important. That's how I know you've seen a lot because you didn't even answer the question. You kind of actually defected it. Wait, what was it? The question was, How much money have you ever seen spent on a production of a music video, like that you've had a chance to be a part of? The most expensive, like the most expensive video that I've done? Like that you know, like, that you've had a chance to even be a part of,

maybe there might have been two other directors or might have been, you know what I'm saying, you, one other guy. Well, I do know. You know that they spent like fucking, this video could have cost fucking a million bucks or two million bucks. Well, I think the most expensive video, if I'm not wrong, is scream. by Michael and Janet Jackson. That was $7 million. And then...

I got to remember, you have been in the game for a long... No, no, I haven't been that long. But I do know that. That was Mark Romeneck, I think, was the director, and it was like a massive... You know, it was like Michael Jackson. So, and it was him... What about you?

What have you had the opportunity of being a part? I've definitely... I've definitely done a million plus. Right, and we're not talking about what went in your pocket just for what investors put into the production. No, no, no, like, videos.

Like, I'd say the most expensive video that I've had, that I've been a part of, that I've been the director of, is in probably 1.3, 1.4. That's a fucking chunk. It's a big chunk. But I would say, that's Drake numbers because Drake and them will spend a million on a video.

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's nothing. You know what I'm saying? And look who that is. You know what I know. So I know that's that level. Yeah. I mean, this is also, I've been doing this 18 years, you know what I mean?

So, um, there's, and there's always weird instances where, you know, and a half for a video, James, fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Video. To put out this one thing. This one fucking thing, bro. Like, it's, for a three minutes song. It's crazy.

I know. And when you think about it, it's like, you know, and it was, it was great and fun. And I, and I think it, you know, it, you know. it did what it was supposed to do. I think it looks the amount that was spent on it. But that doesn't guarantee a hit. You know what I mean? And it really still always comes down to the music, you know?

Because like if it's not a good song and you make this incredible video, that's only going to do so much. It still comes back to the music. You know what I mean? Always. Well, I'll have to. I agree to. a certain extent because back to what you were saying earlier, a song really ain't, and you didn't say it like that, but I'll put it in my words. A song really ain't shit without the visual.

People want to see it. Like if you're rapping about something, right? You rapping about, I don't get a fuck, if it was killing this motherfucker on 24th Street, you popped him, or you was selling dope over here, you lived in the trenches, people are going to want to see you put a visual to that. They're going to want to see you paint that. They're going to want to see you in that light. I don't feel like people's music will go far with. without visuals. I just don't see, especially in today's era with streaming.

This isn't the CD era anymore where everybody's just kind of pushing CDs, your music kind of just moves word of mouth. You've got to have visual, baby. And that's where people like, you really play a determining factor today. That's why I didn't understand when you were like, well, I mean, if you're into this type of stuff sharp,

of course I am, because it's the people that are behind the cameras that don't get enough shine. Right. Because without y'all, none of this shit would ever even be possible. I don't know how to run these cameras. I mean, I'm sure I can learn, but that's not my job. My job is to sit back and create.

That's my job. I can't worry about two, three, four other jobs. So I respect the people that stand behind the camera or get together, you know what I'm saying, just get together everything that's going on from even right over there running the boards. You know what I'm saying? Publicists, like people that just, you know what I'm saying? Trev, Kelvin, Bossa, like just people that move, fill with the camera. Like people who...

I work with these kind of guys, man. And they don't get the shine they fucking deserve. You know, so to even see you being on one of the biggest... And I have to ask you, man, I got to know this. I got to know this. Did you have anything to do because I know that you've worked with M&M? You've had a chance to work with M&M. Did you have anything to do with when they shot that Empire State building video?

Yeah. The Venom? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. That had to be, listen to me, and I think the office, we were actually watching it, me and another guy, another editor that's here, another guy that moves around. We were talking about it like, that had to been one of the most extrad fucking, I don't think anybody's topping that. Of Eminem on top of the Empire State Building.

Yeah, it was crazy, man. Like, who's doing that with the helicopters coming around it, bro? Yeah, it was. And people are filming from the fucking street. Yeah, yeah, listen, that was. Tell me about that experience, man. I wanted to ask if you were a part of me before we just dove in. Now that I know that you are that guy, let's go ahead and get it.

I mean, honestly, if that, if you include that as like a video, then that one, I don't even know the budget for that. That was pretty nuts. No, fuck the budget, just the experience. We know what was spent on it. I'm sure. I don't even think that money even played a determinative factor in that part. But, dude, it was, well, here's what it was.

is basically every year Jimmy Kimmel does, which it was fit, was shot on Jimmy Kimmel. He spends a week in New York. He's originally from Brooklyn. He goes back to Brooklyn and he does a week of the Jimmy Kimmel show in New York. So I've worked very, very consistently with Eminem for many, many years since about 2008. And so they were going to, he was going to perform. So it was like this thing.

He has a song, Venom, it was out. He was going to do this performance. Well, he did it for the Venom movie. Correct. Correct. Which was dope. It was dope. Yeah, yeah.

And they did an actual music video for that as well. But this was going to be like, you know, a separate performance, live performance that we were going to shoot live. And it was always in rare form if he's doing anything. It's rare form for him, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, he's, yeah, he's amazing. I mean, he's a, he is a genius. dude he's he's he's a genius that video if if for any for any editor anybody that like even likes just to even just directing anything like that shit was iconic with m&m on top of the fucking

ipal tower like or the fucking empire state building yeah you know what's saying sitting there just fucking going around in circles like i'm like what's he doing like where's he going bro and like just to shoot it live like that was just it was fucking amazing yeah man i mean look and here's the thing. We shot it a week before the Kimmel show, before it was going to air, and then it was planned out where on that day that it was going to air,

Kimmel throw it to them, and then it would seem as if it was happening right then. So because we did that a week ahead of time, it had to be a secret. So how do you do, you know what? In New York. How do you make that a secret? Like, I'm for real, you out,

man, on the Empire State. Y'all up there fucking filming on the Empire. We couldn't let it be known. You know what? because then everyone would know that it wasn't live when it actually aired, you know, all this stuff. So, I mean, people do that all the time, but when they shoot things. But so basically we had from the 70th floor up

of the Empire State Building for, I'd say, about two days to like rehearse and sequence the lights of the Empire State Building to the song. So when we would play the song, the lights of the Empire State building would pulse to the beat. They change it, you know, throughout the year. Like for like breast cancer awareness, they'll, it'll be pink or, you know, stuff like that. So they're always changing the lights. But we had it actually just pulsating to the beat, like this crazy light show. And that, and then we had two helicopters. We had a helicopter.

Which I saw. It was crazy. Yeah. We had a helicopter that was filming his performance, but then we had a helicopter shooting that helicopter shooting him. So, because I want, I want, I wanted to take advantage of the fact that we were actually using helicopters, so I wanted to be able to shoot the helicopter in the shot. It looked crazy because it looked like there was a lot going on up there to where like they got helicopters fucking circling it, man. M&M is amazing. And I'll be real to have you on as a director and somebody who put your visual to that is is iconic, bro. And you deserve your flowers indefinitely. Oh, man.

I get it. Like, that's how I am too with certain things and the things I've done. People tell me, I'm like, yeah, no, I appreciate you, you know, but I feel you. You pretty much told me right now the work ain't done, Sharp, we're just getting started. Pretty much, the work ain't done.

And I will say something about what you were saying about recognizing people behind the camera, which is admirable, and I appreciate it, and I'm sure everyone here works their ass off and they appreciate it. Part of making the decision to be of the team behind the camera, part of making that decision is like not, is understanding that we're not,

it's not about the recognition. It's about when this airs and when this gets out and the work that we put into and those sleepless nights and all that stuff, when that finally is like the reality of like the world is seeing it and it's live and it's, you know, whatever, like that's the reward. You know, they do it for the work for the love

because they love production. They love everything that goes into it. They, you know, of course everyone loves to, to hear it and here thank you and get recognized. But, you know, I think that's what makes this whole machine work is like the mentality of behind the camera mixed with the mentality in front of the camera and how they bring different strengths. And that's what makes this whole thing function and work.

It's pretty amazing. It is amazing, man. I'll be real with you. I love just even sitting back and just talking with you. Like our conversation just is everywhere. I love it. No, but it makes so much sense because I've never got to talk to like a real director,

somebody who's, I have but to sit back and like pick your brain. And like you have so much of this, so much knowledge to like give to people who are up and coming and inspiring to even do something like this and letting them know like you pretty much let the world know like, hey, you don't always have to be in front of the camera. You can be behind it too and still be as big or as detrimental to the situation

more than you know, you know. You don't have to hate on the next person, you have to be back, no, find something. I don't give a fuck if you know, be the best light holder. That's right. Everybody has a strength, man. I like how he said, like it builds, it's a team, man. It's what makes the machine work.

Well, it's also humbly an experience when you fully understand that it takes every single person to make production go smoothly. You know what I mean? No matter what that job is, you know, it could be sweeping the floor. or taking out the trash or getting coffee or directing or producing or starring in it, whatever it is, everyone has to work together.

It has to be on this wavelength. You guys have to all be on the, in this, when it's done properly, it's, it's like jazz, man. It's like everyone's just jamming and all of a sudden the frequency starts to connect. And when it all connects and everyone's working together and the horns are perfect and the drums are cool and the bass is working. and everything just kind of like is flowing and you're getting through your day because you did all the work and the planning and in preparation and you have everything under control

that you can control and anything you can't control, you're just like, you're going to, you're experience, so you'll cross that bridge when you come to it, but you just go with it and you flow. And it's like surfing almost or something, you know? And when you're on that and you get into it and the artist is into it, you know what I mean? I'm speaking more,

so to music. You're talking that lingo right now, man. But like when you're with it and everyone's on that wave, man, it's like, it must be the feeling of like, like, one of my really good friends is a photographer and does like, you know, stadium shoots and stuff and he'll be on stage sometimes in front of like 80,000 people taking photos, you know, and it's just, it's like he says you feel that thing, you know, you just feel that energy, you know, the artist feels that energy. And that's what I feel on when it all works together and everyone's, everyone's in a rhythm and everyone just has like, you know, just the same goal and you're this like hive mind, you know what I mean?

You're all speaking the same language. Everything's working smoothly. And, and, and then you get to the end of the day. Everyone's happy. You got everything you needed. And you can all sit back and just have a breath of like, oh, that was fucking, that was sick. You're not going to say, I've mastered it like yourself. But, you know, I've gotten a to directing and I've done it for a little while and just it's it's something that comes over you like when you're when you're sitting there and you're trying to capture a vision like I want to bring something to life it's a story like even with music videos I've been a part of music videos to help direct music videos and things like that not to your level of course not but nonetheless

I try you know and yeah like just even being there like the way I see a certain vision for it man and I try to connect it I tell a story it's a story that we tell I listen to the music and I want this video to damn near match up and be identical to what the artist is saying you know whatever he's mentioning key points they have to be there yeah you know it's it's important man just capturing that image man and just that visual of somebody man and just because it's forever once it's shot it's just like this once this shit is shot this is one of one this conversation probably it it will not i can't even say probably won't it will not ever happen the same Right. That's why I love it.

That's why I love it. Because this is what you see is what you get. It's like, you know, it's like Tyson said. It's all your preparation goes out the window the second you get punched in the nose, right? You know, it's just like that's when it's real is when you're in it. And so, you know, something like this and sitting down, it's like that's why, you know, I know enough. I didn't want to get deep into, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole. and learn too much about you or anything

because I don't like to have any kind of... A perception already of somebody. Yeah, preconceived notions or any kind of influence or whatever. And I love to just meet people and get to know them for who they are and it's a one-on-one thing. We just vibe, you know what I mean? Well, this was more of, I want to say,

like a reflection behind the lights, you know, kind of ordeal of just kind of sitting back with a top-in fucking director, like somebody who's really been around this shit, man, and just let, like I said, let the view, it was to let the viewers know, like anybody who's inspiring, this man's been through it.

And I'm sure there's a lot of people that are trying to get into directing right now or trying to, you know, whether it's photography or just anything that captures a moment. Anything that cap, and I feel like that shit runs abroad. You know what I'm saying? Anything to capture a moment to hear your story, like, and just hear your outlook on things

or your take on things. And you know that you can look at it eight different ways. You don't have to look at it just in one way, man. always capture it eight different ways. Eight different ways anything can play out. Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's a really exciting time for anyone who's looking to get into,

you know, filmmaking of any sort, because the protocol isn't what it used to be. You know what I mean? Now it's from you to everyone, right? I mean, you can upload something and you get your own following and you don't need the traditional ways of how things are created.

you know and so um and with without having that limit you know that that that barrier as like a limitation in front of them they're they're able to just be creative you know and just get it out so you that's i mean i love i never laugh as hard as i do when i see some of the stuff that people are putting out online or whatever you know it's just the the amount of creativity it just shows how creative the average person can be it's just traditionally not the average person gets to be seen, right? Because there's these gatekeepers of who would be able to get on television or something along those lines.

So the funnel was very, very thin, where now that funnel is very, very broad. Because anyone can get out. So now you're seeing that, you know what, it's not just like four people that are that funny that get on TV. Everyone's, you know, there's a lot of people out there that have their niche and their talent or whatever. And they finally have this platform to be able to put it out.

and therefore it's creating more and more opportunity. And it's a very, in a very technological, I guess, within the technology of like social media and stuff like that. Right. YouTube and things like that. Within that, it's a very organic process in how it all grows. You know what I mean? And I think it's great, man.

And I think the opportunity to create your own lane and your own position, a lot of people who are, you know, that get with young artists, you know, and they'll be like their photographer or, you know, I see that a lot now is young photographers that travel with artists and they'll, you know, do all their social media and put little videos together for them and, you know, things like that to keep things, you know, keep content coming out. And the stuff that they're doing and how fast they're doing it, and with a good artistic eye is incredible, you know. So I see a lot of just, people embracing the technology that they're a part of

and the way that filmmaking is being created in this technology and using it in very creative ways. It's insane. So I don't know. I think it's great. I love seeing what people are coming out with. And I think, like, you know, the young kids, like, you know, the amount of creativity that's being produced

without the limitations of getting it out to the world is cool, because it allows you to do something if it fails, you know quickly that it didn't work and you can readjust and do another one. Yeah, you don't have to wait for it to catch word of mouth to come back to you and say, hey, it was trash and you've been working on it for two years. You can find out in fucking five minutes if that shit's going to be something. People will let you know very quick. And they're going to let you know very quick if this shit was hotter if it was not.

Yeah. But I think it's important, man, I mean, that people first, it starts with a dream, right? You have to have to have the want to even attempt to do it. You know what I mean? And I think that's, you know, when you have that, the hardest part is narrowing down what it is you want to do. Like if you're trying to be a creative,

a lot of people are like, I want to do something creative, I don't know exactly what, or, you know, the model these days is different. The lines are blurred, so you can kind of float even, you know. and so I think like my advice would be like you know to first really try to narrow down what that what that want is you know you feel this desire to be creative like how how do you want to be creative you know I think that's a lot of people's roadblocks James like you understand it because you've actually went through the blood sweating tears you've actually had to feel some shit from

this but for the ones that are coming up that they might actually be great at this but they get that roadblock and don't know how to get over the wall. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Those are the ones that I worry for, man. The ones that are catching that roadblock, man. And I just want to see them get over that wall.

And I think somebody like you can be very inspiring to them as a creator. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, but that's the thing is that we can be our own worst enemy. And that's probably your very first obstacle in getting into this. creative world is that you have to be able to get out of your own way. Otherwise, you're never going to be able to get around anybody else, you know, any other dividers.

You know, if you're always in front of yourself that you're never going to be able to see around that. So you first have to address whatever that wall is. And the best way through it or around it is through it, you know. And so a lot of times it's addressing stuff, you know, because it's addressing stuff within, you know, analyzing your yourself, why do I have this block? You know what I mean?

It can get deep. I don't want to get deep into it. And I get it, but just, I'm, and I'm keeping it surface level. Got it. You know, I'm trying to keep it surface level just like, and I think you broke that down. Like people that have those blocks, like here, man, there's some things you can do. Like, just figure out what it is and how you can remove it. Exactly.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And then once you, you kind of figure out how to get out of your own way, I don't know. I think that allows you to really focus on what that aspect is. If it's directing, you know, focusing on the creative and not questioning yourself, you know, and being able to, you know, make a decision and stick with that decision and not say it with a question. Like, well, maybe we should do that. I guess we could do that, you know.

It's got to be. Well, people regret to decisions too much these days. Yeah. They regret their decisions. Yeah. So therefore, they're scared from them. They'll run from. making decisions because they're so afraid of making the wrong one.

Yeah, you know. They rather not even engage. Yeah, I think it's just, it's just, you know, there is a lot of, like, just really understanding yourself and what you want and what you're trying to, you know, what kind of stories you want to tell, what kind of visuals you want to show. Like, you know, it's really kind of understanding yourself

because those are going to be the first questions that you get asked by anybody. Yeah. What's this going to be? How is that going to look? How are they going to move? Where's the camera going to be? You know, and if you don't have that all worked out

and you don't know that this is what I wanted to look like going into a situation, then no one's gonna have confidence in you. Well, I think, and I'm a level with you here. I think it's a hard game for anybody to hop in because you gotta figure out what can you do that's new? What can you do that's one off from the next person, whether that's directing, whether that's photography, whether that's content creating,

whether that's being an influence, or it doesn't it doesn't really matter whether that's a TV personality or somebody who, a fucking, you know what I'm saying, just a show host or whatever the case may be. Like,

what can you do that's one off that the next person isn't doing? Because there's a fucking melting pot of, somebody's probably already there. So you got to probably get to where you're the least. Well, and you can really thrive. Yeah.

But that's also about understanding yourself because the thing, is when you know who you are and you know what, what, how you want to represent things visually and you understand your style or whatever it is, you know, when you know who you are, that's what makes you unique.

See, because people always look outward. That's why there's trends and fads and like, you know, now everyone's doing this effect and then they'll do this effect. Talk that shit, James. That's all that's superficial bullshit. Man, bro. That shit bothers me, man. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. That's because of, that's all that it's no one's, it's not their fault, I think, of the people that are doing.

I think that's if young folks just, they go fad first, trend first before. What happened to the people like you and myself that created the trend? But I think, that created the fad to where, I think it's just an evolution of process, you know what I mean? It's like, it's, it's, it's, we come up in an era or, I mean, I'm, I'm sure I'm older than you, but like, you know. How old are you? I'm 48 years old. 48 years old. Yeah, you got me by a little bit, but not by much.

I played with G.I. Joe's too, buddy. I'm 48. Am I the oldest person that's been on this podcast? Is it? I know I'm white. I'm white. I'm fully white. And I'm aging pretty good for a white guy.

And I owe it all to staying out of the sun as an adult. And I spent a lot of time when I was a kid. And then I forget around what time, but I stopped it. Like 17, I'm like, fuck the sun. And so I think that's why I've been doing okay. straight Edward calling on us, huh? I said, fuck it at one point in time and just said, fuck this.

I'm done with it. Well, I think, I think I'm one of those type of dudes that's like, I'm going to, I'm going to look a little older, but at a younger age, but then I'm going to look that age for a while. Let me find out they wrote Twilight behind you. Let me fucking find out, bro.

You were the reason Edward Cullen even fucking existed. That's hilarious. That's fucking funny. I'm just joking with you. No, man. I love it. I appreciate you for coming. I got to, we got to get moving.

And I just love this combo, man. Like, and I hope. And I say this about a lot of people. Like, and I hope they come back. I hope, because I love to have real organic conversations with overall real people. Yeah, man.

You know, and I feel like me and you just touched a space where the people can relate, you know, and the ones that don't, maybe this can help them. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Get to a place. James, I appreciate you.

coming in with me, man, and just sitting down with me for a second. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me for sure. Thank you. We're going to chime on out. Hey, this was a sharp gumble special. The Sharp Tank. No jumper. Sharpest, coolest podcast in the world. Riley, you know what to do. Get that Glock out for us.