No Jumper - Locksmith on His Experiences with Mac Dre, Surviving the Bay Area, Battle Rap & More

Starting point is 00:00:00 Up in the spot, heads getting rocked. Laschino in the building with my player partner in the lock, y'all know what it is, baby. It's good to see you, my guy. Good to see you, man. Recently got a chance to run into you at the Thop Fest, the Happiness of Pursuit Festival. Very dope for hip-hop, man.

Starting point is 00:00:17 There's not too many outlets for indie hip-hop. I mean, if there's any left, because obviously the goal for most up-and-coming artists is to get on like a rolling loud type thing. Yeah, yeah. Which is dope. Rolling Loud's raw, but for the most part, it's like mosh pits to the sound of, like, rapper karaoke.

Starting point is 00:00:38 People just, like, kind of lip-sinking to their song. It's like, yeah, it's a vibe, it's a cool energy. But as far as, like, the art of emceeing and rocking crowds and DJs, like, cutting up. Yeah, it's a different world. You don't really see it too much, so. Shouts to 60 East for you. Yeah, man, he put that on, you know, the happiness of Pursuit Festival down here in SoCal. was dope, man, and it was dope to connect with a lot of, like yourself, man, hadn't seen you

Starting point is 00:01:04 and how long, how long? I think it's like a dime at this point. At least. At least. More, more. And for those I don't know, Locksmith, one of the most elite lyricists in the world at this point. It's safe to say, you are from Richmond, California in the Bay Area. The city of pride and purpose.

Starting point is 00:01:27 A lot of people, you know, our people are for. familiar with Oakland. A lot of people don't know that moniker. Yeah, the city of pride and purpose. You see the sign. And it's, you know, there's definitely a lot of pride and purpose. But when you go in there, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's no joke. You got to be on your P's and Q's in Richmond.

Starting point is 00:01:43 Yeah, especially when I was growing up in the 80s, 90s. Absolutely. I mean, it was still, you know, still ain't no punk. But I feel like that was like the beginning of like the, you know, because I'm not trying to get all deep on the historical tip. But, you know, a lot of people. Yeah, a lot of people from the 70s. like my mom came there um you know they came from california a lot of black folks came from the midwest or from the south um so you have a lot of transplants like my generation is probably like

Starting point is 00:02:11 that first generation of being like you know of those transplant people that migrated like that first being born and raised you know in richmond for your first generation yeah of my yeah my family because even my brothers and sisters who are older they were all kind of like the early part of the childhood was from like chicago Michigan. A lot of my neighbors, I remember growing up in South Richmond, their families who were from Louisiana. Matter of fact, like even North Richmond to this day, it's like you in the South. They got that accent. They got that accent. North Richmond. Yeah, you would think you was in, you know, they call it the Noia, what they used to, you know what I mean? Yeah. Once you pass,

Starting point is 00:02:48 what's a rumoril over there? Go over them train tracks. Yeah, it's almost like a cliche, like the other side of the tracks. But literally, anywhere in the Richmond Flatlands, you got to be on Yeah, you got to be on your piece of juice. Like 1,000 percent. And, but you're, you have mixed nationality background, correct? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, mom is African-American fathers from Iran. Okay.

Starting point is 00:03:09 And they met in the Midwest? No, they met, they met here. They met in the Bay. Yeah, they met in the Bay. Moved to Richmond before I was born, you know. Yeah, my pops raised, my mother's other kids, you know, at the time, you know, they, you know, got married, he raised their kids. and then I came kind of later on, you know?

Starting point is 00:03:29 Yeah. Is it safe to say, I mean, would you describe Richmond as like a blue collar town? Is that like a lot of? Yeah, I mean, because people came here originally, they came to work at the ports. Right. So the city was just built around that, you know, the refineries, the ports, all that kind of stuff was built. Because, you know, Richmond is right on the water, you know, across the bridge. We call it the Richmond or the San Rafael Bridge.

Starting point is 00:03:52 Yep. Take you across the San Rafael, Marin County. And then you got the Carquinas Bridge. Carquinas Bridge. To Vallejo. Take you to Ville. You know, that connects like Hercules, Rodeo, you go to Vallejo. So all these cities around the Bay Area, it's all built around ports and shipping and all that kind of stuff.

Starting point is 00:04:07 Yeah. And growing up out there, I'm sure, because a lot of the people I know from the rich, you know, it's funny. I just had Kevin Allen, aka Erk the Jerk and Monty Draper. Yeah. And they was a talk. I told him I was about to see you and they were a lot and laughed. Those are my brothers, man. Those are my brothers.

Starting point is 00:04:27 Yeah, and you know, Grand National Pass. I had Grand Nash on, yeah, yeah. And we talked about the rich quite a bit, and I was basically like saying to them that, you know, I know people from the rich that are, that lived straightforward lives and all that, but the majority of the people I know

Starting point is 00:04:47 were into some type of activities. Yeah, yeah, that's how it was. Dope dealing, pimping, all these, you know. Yeah, that's what it was, man. Like, yeah, I was fortunate, man. I had my mom and dad. I had my older brother, her cousins, you know, they kind of, you know, insulated and protect me from that.

Starting point is 00:05:01 I was just hooping, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I mean, you could tell, like, when you look at someone, they be hooping, like you got that. I was in hoop, like, from like 11 years old, it was just like basketball. So people knew me like, oh, that's Allie with the basketball, you know what I mean? So I was, like, always at the center, you know, people that's familiar with South Richmond, like East Shore Park, right? The center over there, you know, hooping at Harry Ells, all these type of places.

Starting point is 00:05:23 Did you fuck with Crescent Park, too? That's why I was born. I mean, that's where I was raised in Crescent Park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I lived in, you know, in Crescent Park. Very notorious section for those that don't know. It was, you know, it wasn't. But, you know, my experience, it has this rough.

Starting point is 00:05:37 But when you're in it, that's the thing about, like, living in, like, the quote-unquote hood, like that mentality. When you're growing up in it, that's all you knew. So that's all I knew, you know. And for all the bad shit that was going on there, there was, like, this sense of community. It's a village. Yeah, it's a village, man. Like when I grew up like my next door neighbor, she was like my second mama. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:06:01 The lady next door. And I was like another mom. Like everybody kind of looked after each other's kids. So it was like that village. But it was just something that happened around like the 80s, 90s. You know what I mean? Obviously with drugs. I was going to say it was crack probably a big part of that.

Starting point is 00:06:16 I mean, that's the, I can remember being like eight or nine years old and seeing the first, you know, you know, D boys. Right. You know what I mean? Pulling up, you know, I shouted out my old, my OG homie, Mike Robinson. He pulled up in the Crescent on the little Honda Ninjas. Okay. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:06:33 And then you just like, what is that? And then you just realized, oh, that's what's going on. Then I remember one of my older, not older, but like a couple, like a year or two older. You know, first time I see somebody get arrested for, you know what I mean, for slanging in the park, like all those kind of things. So that was all, that was like the beginning of like that, I felt like that era, you know, in the 80s. And then, you know, and then obviously in the 90s, it just, it was popping.

Starting point is 00:06:54 You know what I mean? People was really like. moving and you know you had a lot of people die get locked up and that was all you know that was like the 80s 90s in richmond man it wasn't it wasn't no joke no absolutely and something i always found interesting about you and something that i really relate to you on now and i feel like we're going to wind up probably being a lot closer even though we was always cool back in the day but i was a loader you know i'll get really high i had a strong drug addiction i heard those rumors back in Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

Starting point is 00:07:27 Allegedly. And you, have you even ever smoked weed in your life? I've never smoked weed. I've never had alcohol in my entire life. You never had a sip of beer, like. Okay. The one time, when I was probably like, I want to say eighth grade, I think I sipped a wine cooler.

Starting point is 00:07:44 Okay. Remember wine cooler? The boons farm and all that. Exactly. I think I, because I thought it was like a snapple or something like that. Oh, you accidentally sipped it? I didn't know the difference. You know what I mean? I just knew it was like a, I just thought it was like grown people

Starting point is 00:07:56 Snapple. I think I was like maybe 12 years old. It for sure is grown people snap. But that was the only time I've, oh yeah, that's the only time I've ever, yeah, had alcohol. Did you get faded? Did you feel the effects of it? Oh, no, I just took a sip. I didn't feel nothing at all. Yeah, yeah. I mean, at least I couldn't tell at that age. I mean, I had to be like 11 or 12 years old. What was it? Because I know, you know, the Bay Area, people really like to get hot. Yeah, yeah. That's what we do. It's a normalized part of the culture.

Starting point is 00:08:24 smoking weed, drank in doing way more than that, but at the very least. A little bit of everything. Yeah. Like, so how, what was it? Was it your parents? Like, was it a strict upbringing that kept you away from that? You know, my mother and father, they didn't do that. They didn't have alcohol, nothing in the house.

Starting point is 00:08:40 They didn't smoke, so I never saw that. But obviously, growing up, I feel like, I don't know now. I know people do shit a lot earlier now, but I want to say around 13 is around the time when that's when food started like that's what I like because none of my I mean growing up none of the homies was doing that until you got to be about like eighth grade yeah yeah for me it was like 12 you know exactly 12 13 14 you know somewhere around that time right but like I say I think basketball was the first basketball was the first thing like I just always wanted to be an athlete okay so around 11 12 that's when I was just like oh I'm gonna be the next michael

Starting point is 00:09:13 Jordan you know what I'm saying so I was just like that's all my concern was it's like I want to be a hooper I want to be a hooper hooper hooper hooper but then I would say definitely by the time I got to be about 15, that's when it was like heavy. It's like everybody smoking, you know what I'm saying? Did you feel the pressure or like curiosity? Well, here's the next thing. So I think it was hoop and then I started saying I'm Muslim.

Starting point is 00:09:33 Oh, okay. So that was around the time I started studying, start reading. You know what I mean? I mean, my father is Muslim, but I would never practice really, nothing like that. You know what I mean? It wasn't never nothing I was like forced to do. But by the time I got about 15,

Starting point is 00:09:46 that's when I started like, started studying, kind of like learning about like that side of my heritage or whatever way, and then I start consciously studying on my own, learned about Islam, and then I was like, okay, well, I don't do that anyway, you know? Okay, that's real interesting. You know, to keep it a stack, though, I got a lot of, I know a lot of Muslims that still begin loading. I don't say no names.

Starting point is 00:10:10 Everybody to each his own, man, I don't do nothing perfect either. But for me, that was something that was easy to give up because I never did it anyway. Okay. So it was like, I ain't got to never start it, you know. Yeah. And then also, just to be completely fair, like, there are some schools of thought in Islam where weed is actually permissible. Or it's not considered completely prohibited. It may be discouraged.

Starting point is 00:10:32 So depending on who you talk to, different schools of thought, you know what I mean? Maybe like, yo, so, you know, it's no judgment. I just never, it was something that people would be like, yo, you know, you can smoke weed. I'm like, but to me, I'm just like, you, I ain't ever started it. I don't really want to do that shit. So, you know what I mean? It was never like a, it was never something I had to give up. Okay. Did you go to, what, Kennedy or Richmond High?

Starting point is 00:10:53 El Cerrito High. El Cerrito High, okay. El Cerrito. Because I was on, you know, Crescent Park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's right on that border right there. Near Central Avenue and all that. Exactly, exactly, yeah. Yeah, I used to, man, I used to mess with some young females that were El Cerito High alum.

Starting point is 00:11:08 El Cerrito was dope because it was diverse. Yeah, hell, you, right. You know, you have some, you had some hood foods. You had some, you know, some, you know, you have some white people from, like, the hills and that Albany kind of area. A lot of different races. A lot of Asian, like everything. A lot of Filipinos.

Starting point is 00:11:23 Yeah, it got to the point where my group of homies all from Oakland, I'm like the only one that's actually from L.A. But I was like with them so much, people thought I was. Oh, you originally from L. I'm born and raised in L.A. Oh, as I didn't know that.

Starting point is 00:11:35 You see how I go like. But she was in Oakland so heavy. Exactly. Like everybody, you know, my whole squad are all East Oakland boys and shit. So everybody you just assumed that I was, let a lot of people from the town tell it to this day.

Starting point is 00:11:47 They're like, nah, He's not for me. You know what I mean? How many years did you live in Oakland? I moved to Oakland in 2001 to like 2013, 14. Okay. And I had always been, you know, like, shit, like we mobbed down to LA for events and shit.

Starting point is 00:12:01 Yeah, absolutely. So I was always in the city still, but like, yeah, now I was, and became, you know, just, it was my formative years. I was 19 years old. It was like my whole 20s essentially was in the town. So like becoming a real adult like, man. Was in Oakland. Just like Pac said, right?

Starting point is 00:12:18 Like, you know, he's not from Oakland, but he got his game from Oakland, and that was me. But we had been a... MacArthur Boulevard. Exactly. Yeah, I was right. I was on a high street in Mac. I was, like, literally right there in the East for a long-ass time. And to the point where we were messing with so many El Cerrito girls that it became a rule, like, no more Elserito bitches.

Starting point is 00:12:38 Like, it's just like, it's too many. I don't think I, I don't even think I ever mess with any chicks from Elserie. I mean, maybe one, but I was like, I think, I feel like when I was in high school, we was always going to like San Leandro. You know what I mean? Messing with chicks like in San Leandro, Fremont, Union City, like, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:12:55 Hoping at Bart, go to Bayfair Mall, you know what I? It's just anything exotic. You feel like, that's something different. You run through all like the home girls in a circle and shit and then it's like, it becomes incestuous at a certain point. You're like, I got to veer off like shit. I'll damn near go to San Jose. You know how it be.

Starting point is 00:13:13 But so at what point did you realize that you had this, Remarkable ability to be a lyricist. Man, it's a funny thing. Yeah, so in high school, I was not rapping at all. Okay. Joked around, played around, obviously, everybody kind of played around rapping, you know, but never, ever considered my sister was a rapper. Really?

Starting point is 00:13:35 Yeah. So my oldest sister was a rapper in the bay. Her name was M.C. Spice. Why that sound? Yeah, this is like 93. Right. 90. So I remember as a kid going to her shows or going,

Starting point is 00:13:48 She performed at like... Older sis. Older sis, yeah. She would perform at like, um, events, like community events, um, with Black Alicious. Right. Like La Pena and like... Um, she was, she was doing some big stuff, man. She actually, they actually wanted, I want to say one of the local news channels,

Starting point is 00:14:06 Channel 4, Channel 5, they did like a whole thing about her. And she was a dope, she was a dope rapper, man. She was a, she was speaking on shit. She, she had like, you know, it was that air. She had the dancers. I remember watching. her rehearse. Remember her going to the studio, writing her raps at the house. At this time, I'm doing hoop. You know what I mean? I'm completely in the hoop junior high,

Starting point is 00:14:29 but she's like, you know, she's doing all this stuff. She travels to Europe. Wow. There's a little tour out there. She tried EZE label, Rufeless. They wanted to sign her. Wow. But she was more on kind of like some lyric, you know, like a little bit more lyrical, kind of like Queen Latif. Remember how Queen Latif was? Right, right. Kind of like a West Coast version of like that, you know what I mean? And we had like in the Bay the conscious daughters and shit like... Excuse me.

Starting point is 00:14:55 She went to high school with Conscious Daughters. Okay, see, and that's why I feel like I heard that. Because you know me like I'm a super hip-hop nerd in particular for Bay Area artists. So like there's even the most obscure like people like I'm low-key up on them. So you probably know about that. Yeah, yeah. That's what one of, she came up. The first thing I thought was conscious daughters.

Starting point is 00:15:14 So she came up even though she didn't do that same kind of rap, but she She came up with like, you know, pool man. Right. Chris Hicks. Yep. All them. You know what I mean? She's their, she's their, they're, uh, uh, demographic that time. But she was, fucking with dang.

Starting point is 00:15:27 Exactly. Dangerous day. Like she was on all that kind of shit, but she was always, um, she was a little bit more conscious, you know what I mean? A little bit more like that, on that tip. And, um, she got some offers, but then she eventually, um, getting married, having kids and kind of. And then I want to say, when I started rapping around 2000 or not,

Starting point is 00:15:47 99 or something like that. I remember I never forget it. It was probably the first time we recorded. So back at this time, I was with three homies. My homie left. Come on, big left. And we had another homie hot lips. Pause, B.

Starting point is 00:16:06 No offense if you watching this hot lips. But back in the 99, that wasn't. That ain't it, though. That ain't it. But it was three of us. So they had a homie. We had, they had a friend. So you know left since back in the back and then?

Starting point is 00:16:19 Oh, since before rap. Okay. Yeah, we've been homie since 12 years old. Okay. You know, that's my best friend. That's my brother. So anyway, they actually were rapping first. Okay.

Starting point is 00:16:28 They was, I wouldn't call it like professionally rapping, but they was, you know, going to the homie's house recording. I think they went like maybe two times like, yo, Locke, why don't you come over, you know, I'm like, yo, what you're doing over there? Oh, we're just doing this rap? I'm like, well, what's that way? You don't want to, you know, you're sure you want?

Starting point is 00:16:43 I'm like, yeah, what's going on, man? I want to try to rap. So they took me to the homie Kamal house in San Francisco, right over there by Stonestown Mall. Yep, yep, yep, yeah. He had an apartment back there, and they, we used to record. He had literally, it was like, what was it? It was like one of the, you know, the four track.

Starting point is 00:17:03 The little four-shap, and you record directly into the tape on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Tascambe Porter Studio. There you go. That's what it was. Yep. Tascan. So they was doing, so that was like some of the first rap.

Starting point is 00:17:14 So I want to say we probably, I went there like three times. I was terrible. It was just terrible rap. Yeah. But I want to say it was probably kind of intricate. I had all these thoughts. I just didn't know how to put it to the beat or flow it. Was it like about girls and shit like there?

Starting point is 00:17:28 No, it was like trying to be like, because I was heavily influenced. That's what I was going to ask you. What was you on? Okay. So my sister was more, she, the music that she listened to was more like EZE, NWA. So I got that. My brother was more on. like Big Daddy Kane, EPMD, all that type of shit.

Starting point is 00:17:49 Golden era of lyricals. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like the New York style stuff. So I would say my influence was like that. But by the time I got to like in high school, college, I was more on like Nause, Woutain. Right. Because we about the same age, I'm 40. I think you're right around my age.

Starting point is 00:18:04 So I was like, yo, I want to, like, I want to rap like Naz, basically. So my first raps was trying to just like be on some dope, lyrical, poetic shit. Yeah. but I just didn't know how to put it together. But after it, not very long, like after about a month, you could see like the, you know what I mean? Because I had never heard myself.

Starting point is 00:18:24 So when I heard, I was like, yo, why do they sound so much better than me? Right. You know what I mean? Like, because they were just like, they were a little bit, just, you know, they had been doing it a little bit longer. I had never tried it. But I caught up pretty fast, you know. And that's why I kind of like developed a style.

Starting point is 00:18:38 That's also a lot of people don't realize this. And I ain't saying this to Brad, but that's also when I started learning how to, write without writing lyrics down. Because at that point, they were all writing their lyrics down. And in my handwriting, it just, their, their shit just looked good. And they were

Starting point is 00:18:54 quicker than me. So what happened was, like I said, he lived behind Stonestown. We would go to Stonestown, like, we would take like a break. Like, we would, like, the homie would make the beat. And we'd like, okay, that's the beat we want. Then we would, like, go across the street, get some lunch or whatever. You know, hollied some girls. Walk around

Starting point is 00:19:10 the mall. But I knew when we got back, it would be writing time. So I started writing the bars in my head. Okay. That's how I kind of started developing. Awesome. Jay-Z shit. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:19:19 But I didn't even realize it. You know, I'm just like, I got to get ahead. So if I could think of like four bars or eight bars by the time we get back, I can be as, they think I'm as quick as them. You know what I'm right? Because they just write shit. So that's how I kind of started. Then eventually I just stopped writing it down on paper.

Starting point is 00:19:34 They was just like, oh, I was just like, I forgot my notebook. I was like, well, I got this shit all in my head anyway. So I played some of that first demos to my sister. And she was like, yo, this is pretty good. I was like, well, she was like, let me manage you. So my sister was like our first manager. Yeah, and it was three of us actually. Frontline was three members at the time.

Starting point is 00:19:51 Right, Hot Lips. Locksmith, left, and hot lips, yeah. And locksmith and hot lips rhyme, actually. Yeah, yeah, you know, so it was, you can always throw that in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that's how front line started. I definitely want to. It was three of us.

Starting point is 00:20:05 So when did you realize? And it's crazy because that right there, it's kind of the precursor, like learning how to rhyme in the way, in the way you did, that's like the precursor to learning how to battle rap. Exactly, yeah. And so, I didn't know that. Right, exactly.

Starting point is 00:20:20 When did you, when did that become a thing? Because obviously, this, I love this story. So. Buss it. All right. So we're all rapping, right? All three of us. So in a matter, I want to say like six months, we're, um, I'm just getting better.

Starting point is 00:20:34 They're like, yo, lock, you know what I mean? We would take our tapes, our demos, playing, you know, the barbershop. And I started noticing people giving me a reaction like, yo, who is this? You don't mean? Like, you know what I'm? everybody would be like, ooh, you know. So I was like, oh, okay, like, I guess I'm getting pretty good at this shit.

Starting point is 00:20:48 That shit becomes addictive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, yo, I like this, you know. And then I'm starting to realize the type of shit that people react to. I was never, I didn't understand punchlines and nothing like that. I'm just rapping. I'm just rapping to sound dope. Because I like Nas.

Starting point is 00:21:02 And Nas wasn't really a punchline guy. It was more like, you know, technical lyricism and poetry. But then he would have those. And people always remember when I was 12, I went to hell for stuff. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? But it wasn't like, you know, like, you know, like, battle rap punchline.

Starting point is 00:21:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, we recorded a demo. We wanted to submit it to unsigned hype. Remember the source? Of course. Yeah, for those that don't know, the source really was, it was the hip-hop Bible.

Starting point is 00:21:28 There wasn't no-no jumper. There wasn't no, that was literally what determined. It was before double-ex-sale, before everything. It was the source. I learned a lot. People like, that was how I learned. The majority of, like,

Starting point is 00:21:40 the early knowledge I had about hip-hop, I would read about album, and look it up and... I would read it front to back. Yeah. You know, everything. And then I will also read who are the people, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:51 because they would have the people's information. Who's the editor? Who's the end? You know what I mean? Who's the submission for unsigned hype? And unsigned hype, like so many people came from unsigned hype. DMX was unsigned hype.

Starting point is 00:22:03 Biggie. Biggie. M&M. Mob deep. Like it goes... So you said M&M. Yep. So this is the thing.

Starting point is 00:22:09 The first demo re-recorded. We sent in an unsigned hype. We're like, yo, we got to get this. You know, we just commented, thinking about, we, you know, we're on some lyrical shit. They don't fuck with us. We didn't hear nothing, right? So, like I said, they had the number. We called there.

Starting point is 00:22:22 And I remember called, I think the guy, I think his name was Boo or Gotti, because I think those were the unsigned hype guys, boo and Gotti. Okay. And I think I talked to one of them. And they were like, yo, oh, you guys are cast from Cali. You know what I'm saying? We're like, yeah, he's like, yo, your shit is dope. He's like, but unfortunately, this month, you know, it's this white kid, you know, from Detroit.

Starting point is 00:22:42 he's going to win it. We're like, yo, it's white kid. Who fuck is that? Yeah, Dr. Dre is really fucking with it. We're like, yo, we didn't know who it was. Then literally that next week we hear the wake-up show. Okay. And this cat Eminem is on the wake-up show.

Starting point is 00:22:56 And we're like, he's from Detroit. And I think they announced he signed a Dr. Dre or something like that. And we're like, yo, this cat, this is. Honestly, I had never heard anybody rap the way Eminem. There's been a few times in rap where I heard when people came, especially back then because everything was so it wasn't so many avenues and platforms you remember it was like you know the wake-up show

Starting point is 00:23:18 you know if you in New York hot 90s stretching bobbedo you know the source that was if somebody if something caught on it was on that and it was dope it kind of changed hip hop and I remember him Aaron M&M as a rapper at least from my perspective I was like what the fuck is this I never heard anybody rhyme multiple syllable rhymes

Starting point is 00:23:38 like that in that way You know what I'm saying? Right. Called a fire department. I hired an arson to set fire to your entire apartment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, who the fuck? Like, who's rapping?

Starting point is 00:23:47 Nobody in New York was rapping like that. It was like taking the stuff that like Bigel was doing. Exactly. And like expanding it. It was taking like AZ, big L, but doing it like in a, the way he was presenting it, it wasn't like smooth like how Big Al. It was like kind of broken up. Yeah, staccato.

Starting point is 00:24:04 Exactly. Exactly. I was like, yo, what the fuck is, you know? So obviously he wins unside hype. Yeah. But the guy, the dude at the source, which is kind of unfair because he was low-key-signed already. He was okay signed.

Starting point is 00:24:15 Yeah, but... That was the first industry, but Eminem earned his way. Yeah, yeah. And then we kind of like heard from other people because obviously we're getting deeper. We're performing at the Lepinias. We're performing at the ill, pride, or whatever it was called in San Francisco. We're starting to get into that scene in Burk, you know, Mr. Journeyman.

Starting point is 00:24:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah. All those. We're starting to kind of like... Shout to my boy, Lucky. So I want to say, I can't remember what happened first. Okay, no, I do remember. The first battle, so this is how it happened. We send it to unsigned hype.

Starting point is 00:24:45 Unside hype said, hey, we're coming to the Bay Area. I said, oh, for real? He's like, yeah, we're having unsigned hype is going to be at Southland Mall. Okay. Hayward. Okay. We're like, okay, so we get our demo ready.

Starting point is 00:24:56 We think we're going to go there, play our demo. It's going to be some kind of like, you know, sit down, play your shit, they judge it and decide if you win. So we get there, we wake up. It's like, you got to be there at 10 o'clock in the morning. We get there early, and they're like, like uh yeah it was like yeah we're front line he's like y'all got an all sign your name red he's like what he's like no this is a battle we're like what honestly i didn't even know what that was

Starting point is 00:25:16 you got like finessed into it damn here i didn't even know it was a battle bro honestly i mean i knew on wax battles existed but i didn't know about really like you had never seen it before i've been in ciphers we're past the mic we cipher that type of thing but i had never been in a battle battle direct competition never did that and um excuse me so then They were like, nah, this is a battle. It was like, well, how does it work? You get 30 seconds. Everybody gets 30 seconds to rap.

Starting point is 00:25:42 Matter of fact, even then, I don't think it set it in that it was a battle. It was like, no, everybody got to go separate. We're like, okay. So basically 100, like, oh, you know, however many people. Hell of people. Hell of people. Everybody from the fucking bay who was a rapper was there that. I remember because it was everybody.

Starting point is 00:25:57 Everybody signed up. And they was like, all right, go up there. You got 30 seconds. They picked the beat. You don't know what it is. You get up there and you rap it in front of like, you know, a few hundred people inside. the fucking mall.

Starting point is 00:26:08 So it's not like against someone at that point. No, it's just the audition. Right. What would get you into the battle round. Right. So I get up there and once again, I'm getting all the ooze and odds. Mind you, I had never battled before. I had never, I didn't even knew.

Starting point is 00:26:22 I just knew I got to think of some shit that's going to get this crowd going. And I want to say right around that time is when I kind of got comfortable as just a rap. I started to understand like bars and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I started to kind of get a grasp of that and it kind of happened. And it kind of happened. So I get up there, I spit the bars, and literally every, you know, every two bars, everybody was like, oh, oh. And they're like, yo.

Starting point is 00:26:45 And at that point, I wasn't officially locksmith. Okay. But I said it in a rap and all, and my homies, you know, left in high lips. They were like, yo, that's a dope name. I was like, no, that's a stupid name. I don't want that name. You know, I was insecure about my rap name, but that's all I had. What did they call you before that?

Starting point is 00:27:02 Nothing. Just your name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? So they kind of, because like, mind you, I had only been rapping for months at this point in time. You know what I mean? Like on the weekends. You just go to rap. So anyway, they was like, yo, what's your name?

Starting point is 00:27:16 Locks me? She's like, yo, that name is hot. And I was like, oh, shit. It is actually a dope name. Yeah, I didn't know. And whoever, I forget who was the host. It was somebody reputable from New York. Okay.

Starting point is 00:27:26 Because they were traveling. They was taking this all throughout the country. Right. And it's like, yo, that name is hot. So I was like, oh, shit, I'm going to stick with this name. You know what I mean? They co-signed it. So they was like, you moving on to the next round.

Starting point is 00:27:35 Like, what? Like, yeah, you're going to battle somebody. And then so obviously I wasn't the first person. There was a couple people. And I was like, oh, these people are talking shit about one another. This is how you win. So then I just, you know, and at this point, it's all freestyle. Obviously, you know, there's no, because you don't know who you're battling.

Starting point is 00:27:52 Pretty much everybody's just going off the top of the dome. So this is, you know, the early years. And it's all on a beat. It's not a cappella. So they're just picking random beats. And I'm just, I'm beating everybody. I started developing a reputation in the Bay Area. So you won that tournament?

Starting point is 00:28:07 No, I got down, it was down to the last, me and another person, and I lost. Do you remember who it was? I don't want to say his government because I know he's a homie. I don't remember his rap name. Okay. But he ended up, so you know, Balance, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know Balance, yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:24 So him and Balance used to be in a group together. Okay. So he actually won that thing, but everybody, I mean, no disrespect, but everybody's like, You should have won. You know, I built a reputation, which was dope, you know what I mean? And that was how I got into the first battle. And then I started understanding battle, and then I start kind of doing street battles and that type of stuff, yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:45 And then there was the MTV battle. Is that what that culminated in essentially? So this is over years, you know what I'm saying? This is like- Because the MTV battle is like 0-3, I want to say, right? Yep, yeah. So up until that point, battling was never my main focus, but I knew I was good. at it. I was always trying to make demos and trying to do all this kind of stuff with the group.

Starting point is 00:29:07 I would do local battles. You know what I'm saying? People would have these local battles, different stuff. The source battle came back again. At that time, it was huge. So that was at Bayfair Mall. Yeah. That shit was like Mr. Fab, I want to say the team. Oh, I remember that. Everybody was at that battle. It was in Bayfair Mall. Clyde Carson, you, Fab. Everybody was there. A lot of people, I can't remember, but everybody who was a rapper in the bank. Top ramen was like from Frisco. Top Ramen.

Starting point is 00:29:40 I used to battle. I mean, I don't think I battled Top Ramah, but we were in a lot of battles at UC Berkeley. He's raw, my dog Topper. Yeah. So everybody was at that thing, no to Piper. You know what I'm saying? A lot of people. So we were all just in, basically kind of same thing happened.

Starting point is 00:29:53 I was, everybody was like, oh, Loxman, but I didn't win. And but everybody was like, yo, this guy is dope. So I developed a reputation and the K&L battles happened first. See, that's what I was thinking. That was you, Fab, Clyde Carson. Yes. But I had already kind of knew those guys from the source shit. Yeah, like Boss one, all the moves.

Starting point is 00:30:16 Boss one, yeah, yeah. There were some battles I did with Bosswine and his crew that weren't even just some heated, crazy battles. You know, he's paying your stripes. Mike T. I battled Mike T. Mike T. I won $40 in a battle against Mike Tee. He was a beast, though.

Starting point is 00:30:33 Oh, no, I'm forgetting something crucial. The wake-up show. Okay, you went on the wake-up show? Went on the wake-up show. Okay. Sway has, so at this time, the wake-up show is going between the Bay and L.A. Yeah. So once a month, Sway would come to the Bay and do the wake-up show.

Starting point is 00:30:49 Left calls up. It's like, yo, we front-line. Da-da-da-da-da. So Sway's like, well, come on up here today, you know what I mean? And that's when I first. Well, I had met Sway, like, in traffic back in the Bay. But this is my first time kind of, like, meeting him in a rap. you know what I mean

Starting point is 00:31:02 type of situation and which was dope back then so I'm gonna tell you so many people was up at that wake-up show I mean Planet A

Starting point is 00:31:11 this is when Planet Cali agents Yep Roscoe They had just signed that deal So everybody was looking at them Like yo these guys are doing it And

Starting point is 00:31:21 Sway was letting everybody come up and rap You know eight bars Or if he was dope He would let you go longer I get up there Once again I'm up there and rap

Starting point is 00:31:29 And everybody's like Oh shit So then Sway says, yo, hold back, bring more. So then a battle starts between us and some other coyotes. I mean, not really like a battle battle, but like a bar and a little bar off, you know. And between Mike T and myself, shout out to Mike T, who's, you know what I mean, the homies, Sam around his shows. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:31:50 So then, so then Sway ends up putting that on his like wake up show Best of Mix Tate, which was, you know, as an independent artist, you know, coming up. That's like, it's huge. I mean in the early 2000s. You up there with fucking M&M and all these people. Literally I'm on there with M&M and all these people. Yes. I was like, yo, this is huge.

Starting point is 00:32:08 And then I battle Mike T out in front of Rasputans. You know, Mike T was like the guy. Yeah. Anybody, if you wanted to, if you wanted to be a dope lyricist in the Bay, like in the underground scene, you had to go through Mike T. And he's been to impress you. And he's been to press you. Look, I ain't going to lie.

Starting point is 00:32:24 We're doing a talent show at fucking Rasputans, right? We just finished the talent. Mac mall's there. Fucking, Big bro. Shout out to Mac mall. Who else is there? A bunch of people like Bay Area.

Starting point is 00:32:37 I think it was like maybe like Mike Denton Studio. You know, you know, people that's known in the Bay Area. We just finished, you know, performing, you know, we got to wait to say he was going to win. So we walk outside.

Starting point is 00:32:51 All I hear is, where's Locksmith at? If you know, Mike D. He's like, where's Locksmith? I'm looking for you. I'm like, who the fuck is this? And it's like, I'm Mike T. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:33:02 I heard you been da-da-da-da. He got his leather jacket on and all. I don't know what he had on. But so at this point, I'm in the zone. I'm like, you know what? I got something for you, my team. What's up? Let's go.

Starting point is 00:33:15 And we went over there and right on the corner, bro. And, you know, it was no judges or nothing like that. But I earned my stripes. I did my thing. Everybody was like, yo, locks me. You know what I mean? So, you know, you're earning your stripes. Fast forward maybe a year or two, the came of Yale,

Starting point is 00:33:32 battles. Sway comes back to the Bay. Remember? He's in New York at this point. He's coming back to the Bay. He's like, yo, we need the Bay Area's got, you know, we got talent out here. We need to showcase, you know what I mean? Because at that time, you know, it wasn't a lot of Bay Area unless it was like, you know,

Starting point is 00:33:49 major stuff like at this time 40. And like, you know, I was talking to, I was talking about this in another interview I did recently. A lot of people don't remember that the Bay Area was essentially blackballed from the industry. felt like that for sure for a long time and um you know obviously there's i feel like the the the pock and biggie conflict contributed that somewhat people in the bay i remember yeah people in the bay was fucking upset yeah you know what i mean they took that biggie they took pox death and even pot getting like chipped at first when he got shot like ever like spice one was just on here recently talking about how he wanted to go to

Starting point is 00:34:27 new york and he said it on the show so i'm not putting in my blast he said he wanted to go to New York and smoke everybody. Like, that's literally how he felt. And, you know, there's a bunch of different artists that were, and I can't confirm this or not, but there's like a lot of folklore around, because the Bay Area Independent Hustle Game is so big. A lot of dudes like JT getting, JT, the Bigger,

Starting point is 00:34:49 getting huge advances from labels and then running off and not. I've been in meetings. Now, this is, you know, fast forward, we can go back, but I, you know, later on in my career, when I start putting out music and stuff, I went into meetings. I want to say like mid-2000s, like, you know, 2007, 2008. I've been in meetings where executives is like, yo, don't say you're from the bank.

Starting point is 00:35:09 Yeah, they don't. But even see, at that point, 2007-8, that's a whole other stigma. That's the hypey stigma. Yeah, that was the next wave of black ball. Yeah, which we could get, we're going to touch on all that. But literally, yeah, and shouts to, you know, J.T., the big figure, is a huge influence on me. Because I was all just about to say, because at that time, you have to think early early 90s, mid-90s,

Starting point is 00:35:31 J-T, too short. All them guys were getting major deal. RBL. Yeah, they was getting major deal. Yeah. Richy-rich. Yeah. Like, there was a lot.

Starting point is 00:35:39 And then for whatever reason, the Bay was shut out the game and it became really independent. It was kind of a dark cloud. It was. And that was, you know, even, I'm trying to do this chronologically because I know the new Bay thing popped up.

Starting point is 00:35:53 But really, the next step after that KMEL battle, what transpired with And then how did that lead to the MTV situation? Yeah, so the cameo battle, obviously we wanted to get on the radio. Yeah. Try to get our songs on the radio. You know what I'm saying? But just, you know, how do you do that?

Starting point is 00:36:11 How do we get that pop it? Are any of those songs anywhere can like the old front line? Yeah, somebody probably got them. But they're not like on the internet. They might be on YouTube somewhere. Okay. Yeah. Some of them for sure.

Starting point is 00:36:26 But so we want to get on the radio. We don't know how to do it. Camille, Sway comes back. He makes an announcement because we looked at Sway, because Sway, even though he had been so successful in New York on the radio, MTV, he was on MTV at this time, he's still hip-hop. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:43 You know what I'm saying? He's still like, you know, he's still like about lyrics. So, you know, and they're still doing the wake-up show, I want to say at that time. And he definitely were. And he's from the town. Yeah, he's from Oakland. So, and, you know, we don't have to go all that to that, but I did the wake-up show a couple times.

Starting point is 00:36:57 That had built my confidence. You know what I'm saying? down in L.A. And so Sway comes back to the Bay and he's like, yo, so somehow they decide to have this battle on Big Vaughn. Shout out to Big Vaughn, that's the homie.

Starting point is 00:37:11 And, you know, that whole crew, they was like, yo, we're going to do these battles on Camille on Friday nights. We're going to have unsigned people come up here. If you got bars, come up here. And they literally, you could be off the street. Well, I think you kind of had to know somebody

Starting point is 00:37:25 to get, you know, to kind of like vouch for you to say, like, let this. guy in. Right. So everybody, I was kind of hesitant to get, do it. But so at that time, I want to say like Fab was up there, Mr. Fab was up there doing this thing. The team, you know, Clyde Carson, they was up there doing it.

Starting point is 00:37:42 And other cats was up there spitting bars. And my homies was like, yo, you got to go up there. Like you could go up there and kill that. I was like, nah, we focus. He's like, nah, man, you need to get up there. Yeah. So we hit up the homie, Rob Reyes. used to be, you know, M1 promo, who's now, you know, that's my name John.

Starting point is 00:38:04 Yeah, you know, they're doing their thing. But at that point, Rob Reyes, um, balance hit them up. It was like, yo, let's get Locke up there. Rob knew he's like, oh, yeah, lock and spit. Vouched for me. We went up there. Matter of fact, I want to say Black Swan was with us. Remember Black Swan?

Starting point is 00:38:19 Of course. Hip hop, you know, yeah, I was like, because Black Swan was the homie. It's like, yo, black Swan, come up with us up there to cave here. Right. Just as the homie. And we had a few homies up there and went up there. and they let us all spit. And it was like, yo, Locke, you got to be getting this battle.

Starting point is 00:38:33 You know what I'm saying? You're going to be in the battle? Not next week, but the week after. They end up battling. And once I got up there, I never lost. You know what I mean? I think I went up there like four days, you know, four weeks in a row. I think the last battle that I had with A-Wolf at the time.

Starting point is 00:38:50 A-Wolf. Remember A-Wil? The White Dude, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shows to A-Wolf. It was called a tie. Or no, he got disqualified because you couldn't curse. Yep. Wasn't FLO in some of them battles too?

Starting point is 00:39:02 Probably. Yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody was trying to get up there. I never battled FLO. Yeah, yeah. But so how the MTV happened. So then Sway comes back and says, look, we're doing this MTV battle. I was going to go out there on my own.

Starting point is 00:39:16 Like literally the homies from like the barbershop in the neighborhood. They saw that MTV was doing this battle. Oh, no, they had 106 in part. It's like, like, you need to go on 106 and park, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're going to pay for you a plane ticket to go out there. But then MTV said that they were. having a battle. They announced it. So we're going to piece our money together

Starting point is 00:39:32 just to get a flight to go to New York so I could enter into that battle. But then Sway came and was like, yo, I'm going to have, so certain areas I think it was L.A., the Bay, and Philly had a thing where we're going to have local tournaments. And whoever wins that local tournament

Starting point is 00:39:48 gets an automatic buy to the finals. To the battles. To like, you know, however many 60 battles it was. So Sway ended up happening. And I thought it was going to give it to me. I'm like, I already won all these battles. It's like, nah, you got to do another battle. The most, like the most legendary one from that run on KMEL that I remember was you and FAB.

Starting point is 00:40:08 Yeah, yeah, that was probably the most high. But that was my first battle. Yeah. Of that battle. So my first battle because Sway had, I mean, excuse me, Fab had beat everybody on air. So then I was next in line and be like, okay, try your shot. You know what I'm saying? And then I was able to, you know, win that battle and then have to battle everybody else.

Starting point is 00:40:28 Okay. So then you wound up doing a local tournament to qualify for the MTV thing. Yes. And everybody was in the came-in-up battle was in that battle too. That's probably the one FLO was in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure he was. Because you have to think that's another hundred people that entered into that one. But I still, you know, I didn't get no preferential treatment.

Starting point is 00:40:46 I had to work my way through that battle again, too. But they was already, everyone was shook of you. They're like, or not necessarily shook. People's coming from my head. Yeah, they knew what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People was coming from my head. had some prepared locks with bars.

Starting point is 00:41:00 And mind you, so at that time, for me at least, that was the beginning of starting to have lines prepared. I was going to ask you about that because you always seemed, you know, and there's nothing wrong with doing it. Like, all's fair and love and war, it's a strategy, what's going to win the battle.

Starting point is 00:41:18 And, you know, like, rebuttling's never been, like, you do it occasionally. That's not what you really lean on. You really lean on being polished. and just having hard-hitting lines. Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of been the... Well, starting off, it was off the dome.

Starting point is 00:41:34 Right. You know what I'm saying? Because you don't, you know, you just... But with those battles, I start noticing like, okay, people are... You know, you can tell as a rappers. We could tell, like, what's memorized, what's not. And I'm just like, oh, they're memorizing bars. Okay, I got to get some bars memorized.

Starting point is 00:41:48 You know what I'm saying? Like, you got to be prepared, especially with those rounds. You know, you're only rapping for 30 seconds or, you know what I mean? Or a minute or something. So you got to leave some space to... rebuttal or do a little something or, you know, kind of come up with stuff on the fly because that's going to hit. But you got to have these bars. You got to have just like, I always got 16, you know, eight punch lines ready to go for whoever. Yeah. I remember reading some article

Starting point is 00:42:11 about cannabis or something like that. He would always have like punch lines and stuff like that. So I was like, okay, I got to have some punch lines because for whoever, you know. Yeah. And even with that battle when we battled Mr. Fab, him and Clyde Carson, shout out to both of them. I didn't, I ain't going to lie. Like I love Fab, but Carson, I thought Carson was going to win. Yeah. Because everybody was hyping, you know, everybody was hyping up the team, you know what mean, not in the bad way, but they was, you know, they was dope.

Starting point is 00:42:36 And, you know, we had did some shows with them. And they, you know, they was kind of gaining momentum. And Clyde was spitting bars. They're fire. I stood to this day, it, like, baffles me why they didn't just become huge stars. Clyde was smooth. He had bars. He was like, he had a little East Coast flavor to his bars.

Starting point is 00:42:54 I was like, oh, shit, okay, well. Townish as fuck with East Coast. like syllables. Yeah. And Fab, you know, and Fab beat him. And I was like,

Starting point is 00:43:02 oh shit, I got to retrain my whole thought because I'm going to be battling Fab. Because Fab is a smart motherfucker, bro. And that's where, you know, and that's when,

Starting point is 00:43:10 so Fab, you know, so I was able to get those lines off. You know, like I said, you got to have your lines memorized at that time. Or you got to start

Starting point is 00:43:18 to have these punch lines formulating. You know what I mean? And when we went to the tournament battle, obviously, you don't know who you're going to battle. So you got to go off the, You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:43:28 You got to be prepared to go off the dome. So you mix in some off the dome with some prepared punch lines. Or you're coming up. You're like, okay, I'm about the battle against this guy. Let me get my bars ready. Right. All right. You know, he said this.

Starting point is 00:43:40 I'm going to be ready to say this. He might say. So you start premeditating or anticipating with the next door. Or he's short, fat and bald. Exactly. And I remember people saying some disrespectful shit. I always try to keep my bars more clever as opposed to like, your mama died. Yeah, nah.

Starting point is 00:43:55 I was just like, I'm not going into that kind of shit. That's just weak. Yeah, to me. I was just like, I'd rather it would be creative. But anyway, won that shit, and that's what got me to MTV. So you go out to MTV, and during this time where it's not, quote, unquote, cool on a national level, to be beyond even just the Bay, being from California. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:44:17 It was kind of like there's the dray wave and was kind of crashing at that point. 2003, yeah, that was right after, what, the chronic? Well, because the second, it's called chronic, 2013. Came out 99. 99. Yeah. And like that had already kind of run it. Yeah, 2003, this was Blueprint, Jay-Z. That's what I'm saying. It was all about New York shit at the time. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:44:37 Jay-Z, you know, blueprint, Nas, Stillmatic. Jada Kiss, kissed the game goodbye. 50 Cent was larger than life. DMX was larger than life. Jarl rule was, you couldn't turn on the radio, you know, without hearing him. So it was very New York centric at that time. And people wasn't really trying to hear anybody from Cali like that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:58 And especially the Bay. And you were unabashedly, unashamedly going out there. And you've said it in a lot of your, you know, content. Y'all I'm rep in the Bay Area, rep in Richmond. And you were killing motherfuckers. Yeah, yeah. Killing motherfuckers. That battle was so dope about that.

Starting point is 00:45:16 That was my, not my first time in New York. It was probably my second time actually coming in. But that was my first time kind of like in the scene. Yeah. You know, being around that type of stuff and met a lot of people. But what was dope about that was like the whole. See, most people just remember that final day when it was like, you know, the final eight

Starting point is 00:45:32 or however many battles. It was like it aired over. Yeah, it was multiple days. You know, I had been there for like almost two weeks. So you were battling like, you know, because I think, I want to say they narrowed it down to like 64 battles or something like that. And then, you know, you would have like,

Starting point is 00:45:46 I think it was like three days of battles or to get to that battle. But I just remember I was like, so what happened is it got canceled at first. I was on a plane to go do it. and they call them as like the battle's canceled. What? I was like, what?

Starting point is 00:46:02 Because the battle was originally like in February. But it got canceled because I guess all the people, all the, it was so many auditions that they stormed the build, the death jam building. Like so many people were pushing in to get in. So they had to cancel. So MTV just like canceled the whole shit. It was like, all right, uh-uh, this is too crazy. We got to do this more organized.

Starting point is 00:46:22 So then they came. So I thought it was over. I was just like, all right, well, that battle's over. You're literally on the plane type shit. I was literally about to go through security. It was like, are you in through secure? I was like, don't go through it. I was like, what?

Starting point is 00:46:32 It's like, we've postponed the battle. I'm like, what? So my mom at the time was like, drove me to the airport. I was like, mom, wait. Yeah. Let me get. So then they rescheduled.

Starting point is 00:46:43 They hit me like a couple months later. Like we're bringing the battle back. I think it was like April or something like that. And we did the battle. They flew me out to do the battle. And we were doing it that whole week. And I remember everybody else was like, everybody was just,

Starting point is 00:46:58 You can just imagine, it's 100 battlers. Like I said, they were doing auditions. I didn't have to audition. So everybody's just like cyphrine, and everybody's just kind of like, for lack of better words, just like, it was exposing. It was exposed. I was like, I ain't saying shit.

Starting point is 00:47:14 I'm going to fly under the radar until it's time to rap because I don't want people knowing I got bars. You know what I mean? So everybody else just like, yeah, son, everybody's like, ooh, they're like kind of getting clout behind the stage. You know what I mean? Which is like a risky decision at that moment. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:27 Like, do you want to get that momentum from being, you know. You know, that dude is, for me, I was like, nah, I know I got some shit. Yeah, yeah, you're not tripping. I was like, I ain't saying shit. I'm going to fly under the radar until this time to battle. And even my battles, like, nobody was, like, really tripping until, like, the second or third day. You know, because, like, Just Blaze and all those guys were, like, judging. They were coming up to me.

Starting point is 00:47:49 I never forget this. Just Blaze came up to me. He was like, yo, Locke, this is the first time I saw an iPod. Remember, though? Yeah, yeah, he was like, yo, Locke. Is this you right here? He was playing like some of my shit. I was like, yeah, well, how was that?

Starting point is 00:48:01 You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, man, shit is dope. You know, so I started developing the, and then so as the battles went on, then I start developed. But at that time, we're in the battle now. You can't, you know what I mean? You can't really, but I remember I purposely was like,

Starting point is 00:48:15 nah, I ain't saying shit. Stayed to myself because I want to get as far as I can. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. And then you wind up going. So this is the second MTV battle, right? No, this is the first one.

Starting point is 00:48:28 This is the first one because this was. Rec, recognized one the second one. Yeah, yeah. So was rec in this one? No. Okay, rec wasn't in this one. And then you wind up getting to the finals against Rain Man, now known as RJ Payne.

Starting point is 00:48:42 Shout out to RJ Payne. Another one of the dopest rap. It's so funny that it turned out to be the two. But you know what? Look, no disrespect and nobody. I knew that day, I was like, he's the best. You know what I'm saying? He's fired.

Starting point is 00:48:54 Out of everybody, out of everybody there, I was like, okay, he was the only person I thought. I was like, this dude is dope. But it's crazy how far both of y'all have come because y'all barely even rap like you did back then. And, you know, all these years later, literally, you know, damn near 20 years after the fact, two decades, y'all are both lyrically in the best shape of your life.

Starting point is 00:49:16 Both, you got shit together? Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Shout to art. Man, RJ, man, you need to quit playing and come pop up on the No Jumper platform with me, Doug. Like we've been chopping it up. But you, uh,

Starting point is 00:49:30 there was a lot of, so you did the battle, you know, a lot of, rain man won, shout out to rain man won. But there was a lot of controversy. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:49:40 a lot of people in the West Coast. I got back to the baby, I was like, yo, you won that. We were pissed. And I think, I think people felt like,

Starting point is 00:49:47 um, you know, I'd have to watch it now because I have a much different way of judging battles. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But at the time,

Starting point is 00:49:54 I was all about direct. material and I felt like at that moment your material was a lot more direct he was fire as fuck but he had that you know Philly style of just like rapping really good not really getting at the opponent on a direct level so we all felt and maybe there's a little bit of bias involved like you're the local boy

Starting point is 00:50:14 we're pulling for you and um that honestly like I had I saw the it's funny because we were like moving around the same time I'm in a lot of the same circles, battling the same people. But there's another dude named Locksmith. And he was like the fake locksmith. And I battled him.

Starting point is 00:50:33 Oh, out in the South Bay somewhere, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard about that. I mean, I addressed that in one of the KMEL battles, I think. Yeah, and I, it's so funny because I even haven't, it was like a popping line at the time. I said, like, I battled this fool. And it's funny, you said outside of Rasputin,

Starting point is 00:50:50 because I was a block away outside of Amoeba, telegraph and haste. And I said, I was like, all you do was spit, pre-conceived punchlines, plus you bit your name from locksmith from front line. You feel me? And, like, everyone was like, oh, because, like, it was a whole thing. But anyways, I say that to say, I hadn't really become privy to you until the MTV shit. Like, I maybe had heard, like, for sure heard your name.

Starting point is 00:51:13 Yeah, I definitely, like, jumped me, you know what I mean? But it was also before the internet. So it's like, if you're not there to witness it or you're not listening to the radio. There's message boards and all that. Yeah. But if you're not listening at that moment, You might miss it You have to like wait for months through.

Starting point is 00:51:28 Nobody's going on. There was no YouTube, right? Nobody was going on there. We was literally going to websites with fucking like 14.4 megabyte modems downloading shit. Rap talk, battlewrap.net. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:51:42 MCbattles.com. All that shit. But after that MTV shit, we're like, yo, this dude's fire. I came home. I was a celebrity. Yeah. I was like, damn.

Starting point is 00:51:53 You know, girls was coming up. to me. You know what I mean? I'm getting recognized. I'm like, damn, like I had no idea. You know what I mean? And that really, that MTV battle helped our career because now KMiel starts playing us on the radio a little bit, you know, stuff that me and Leff are doing. At that point, me and Leff is just, you know, just us too. Right. And by the way, Leff is with me in New York the whole time, you know what I'm saying? We're like, you know, we're going around New York, you know what I mean, trying to network, meet with people at the, you know, during the time of the battle. Yeah. Left is, raw, one of the illest flows. Like,

Starting point is 00:52:22 you got that real consistent flow. I fucking. Sure. And he was producing the beats at the time. Okay. Yeah. And then one of the most legendary producers in the Bay Area, EA Ski. Yes, sir. So did he become privy to you because of the...

Starting point is 00:52:35 Yeah, so I want to say I met Ski before that through Balance. Okay. Because Balance was working with E.A. ski. Shout out to E.A. Ski, man. So Balance was working with E.A. ski. He had did, I want to just did some... Recorded on some of his tracks. And, you know, anybody who knows one of the best...

Starting point is 00:52:54 best, you know, producers ever walk this earth. Yeah, literally. If you look at E.A. Ski's production credits, it's insane. He, you know, he did some stuff with balance. You know, E.A. Ski had came back to the bay, was independent, putting out stuff on the radio and everything was slapping. Yeah. So, and we had kind of just kind of developed just, you know, just a little bit of a

Starting point is 00:53:16 friendship, you know, just through balance. And then me and Leff had, I was like, yo, we need to get a beat from him. Who coincidentally has also never smoked weed or drink in his entire life? And that's one of the things that we kind of bonded on. So I hit up EA scheme. And I like could not relate to you all. I was like, man, they're dope, but my mind was so warped. I couldn't even like, I love their music and shit, but it's just something.

Starting point is 00:53:41 They don't smoke weed. It's not, they're not cool. Yeah. But you know, that's a real thing. Yeah, yeah. You deal with that in the industry. But now I'm a guy. The Square is Delaware.

Starting point is 00:53:50 Yeah, yeah. But yeah. So we connect with ski. And initially it was just like, yo, I want to get a beat. You know, we love to get a production. Like, what do we need to do? What will it cost? You know, I think we met over in Oakland by the lake somewhere.

Starting point is 00:54:05 We had like a little meeting. He was like, look, this is how much it's going to cost. We was like, all, cool, let's do it. And he gave us our first beat. Was that what is it? It was what is it? That was the first beat. So the first beat that y'all ever got from ski becomes your first radio hit.

Starting point is 00:54:21 So he gives us the beat. He gives us the beat. We recorded at, we recorded at the grill. Yep. In Reveal. We sent it to. By 53rd in Pavel. We sent it to the EA ski.

Starting point is 00:54:32 It was a little different. The beat was, I want to say, no, it might have been exactly the same. But we sent him to, we didn't know if he was going to like it. And we sent it to him. He was like, yo, this shit is hot. Come to my studio. You know, we're going to re-record it. So we re-recorded it.

Starting point is 00:54:48 We hadn't even heard the hook at this time, you know. and Ski was going to put a verse on it You know what I mean? So he was just like... Wait, so you didn't have the hook. You just had the verses on it. We had our verses on it. Me and Left's verse.

Starting point is 00:55:00 Ski took it in the, Ski and CMT, you know, CMT is recording us. Right. Ski goes in there like, I'm gonna do the chorus. And he's doing the chorus. What is it?

Starting point is 00:55:10 I always thought that was your voice. No, that's ski doing it. Okay. I know the lower one is whatever you don't want it to be. With it? No, that's ski doing it. Okay. Skis doing all the adlibs.

Starting point is 00:55:20 He was the one that kind of, I mean, we were doing Atlas, but he really kind of showed us the emphasis like, blah. You know what I mean? I know what I kind of said? You know what I mean? So he kind of, and I remember he just, they made me re-recorded my verse like a bunch of times, you know what I mean? Like you got to emphasize this word. I'm like, but, you know what I'm like, but I'm like, I can't do it to him any time.

Starting point is 00:55:42 He's like, all right, that's the right one. So I remember re-recording it, really perfectionist. And he went and did the chorus and put his verse on it. And then he was like, yo, And he was like, yo, let's do something different. I was like, what you want to do? He's like, I want to produce more for y'all. I want to really kind of help y'all mix some of your tracks, help.

Starting point is 00:55:58 So we kind of went into a partnership with him in, you know, CMT. And you know what I mean? And then we put the song on the radio. But what's funny about that song, it's really interesting. And this is like that song to be a radio song, it sounds like what was popping on the radio at the time. Especially in the Bay. Yeah, yeah. But you're talking about, you're basically like dissing MTV essentially.

Starting point is 00:56:23 I'm telling you, when I put out that song, when we played that song, I think it maybe was getting, maybe shout out the homie Rickley. I want to say Rickley was the first person to play it on there. Maybe my emotion. You know what I'm saying? Sonagie, all that. Yeah, they would play it. And, uh, my emotion.

Starting point is 00:56:42 My emotion. Shout out my emotion. But it was like super, it was kind of bad. It was a battle. That's what I'm saying. But it sounded like a clubbanger. Yeah. It's like it sounds like a clubbanger.

Starting point is 00:56:54 It had those elements of like, you know what I mean? But you're like talking about essentially your experience. You know, he didn't say what to rap about. He was just like, hey, here's a beat, you know. Because at that point we were just buying a beat from ski. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't like he didn't have a vet, you know, at least I didn't know at that time. It wasn't like, yo, I want to work with you.

Starting point is 00:57:13 I was like, you know, we want to get a beat from you. And I'm sure it wasn't cheap either. You probably know, no, I mean, I don't know with the amount, but it was. I don't know with them out, but we had to be like, yo, let's put our money up together. It was for sure four digits in a week. I know, yeah, it was some money. So we did the song, we gets played.

Starting point is 00:57:29 I remember not the radio DJs, but I remember other people kind of industry was like, that song will never go anywhere. Right. Too bad. You got to make some. You wouldn't think. You got to make some radio type of stuff.

Starting point is 00:57:41 And even left's verse, I mean, he's not talking about the battle rap shit, but he's still like. He's talking shit. Yeah, I'm a quarterback like written. I ain't a pussy, man. I don't sweat vaginal fluid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't sweat vaginal fluid.

Starting point is 00:57:56 Yeah, like, come on, dude. I don't even know why I even, I was still in battle mode. I'm fresh off the fucking MTV thing. And it just catches on. Like, it started off in the clubs first. Yeah. That shit was playing because I remember different DJs was calling us or calling like, yo, bro, people were sending us voice recordings or something,

Starting point is 00:58:16 like, some kind of like, or they were calling. leave voicemails like and you would hear people singing along to the song in the club we're like it was a you couldn't avoid that record in the bay it that's it was a hit record but it bro but it was a slow right it was a slow grind like that that record came out in 2003 it didn't really like to like oh four oh five yeah that's when it was just like you can't escape this shit yeah yeah yeah yeah that's crazy okay and around that time there's this whole movement the new bay they was calling it And that's like balance, y'all and Fab, I feel like we're like the four. So, yeah, we used to throw shows.

Starting point is 00:58:55 I want to say it might have been right at time around. It was in 2003. We was throwing these little shows at Blake's. Mm-hmm. And Berkeley. Yeah, throwing them shows. And we had been doing it before. But I remember as at one point, I want to say it was right after the MTV battle

Starting point is 00:59:09 because we're getting some, you know, we're getting some hype now. You know what I'm saying? We, you know, everybody knows about, you know, Lachman Frontline. We're starting to get. So I remember we put it on the show. It was me, you know, us front line, balance, Mr. Fad, and the team. Jay Dandridge, I think. I don't know if you remember Jay Dandridge from, you know, North Oakland, Berkeley,

Starting point is 00:59:30 Jay Dandridge. He fucked for FAB, I remember. He fucked with FAB, yeah, yeah. Was it so? I threw a show and we all performed together. Was the team already on the radio? Like, it's getting hot in here and all that? Or is that before that?

Starting point is 00:59:43 They had other songs. We all had little songs on the radio. But nothing that was like popping. This is before it started. Because I feel like that was Haifi movement for them. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. This is the first time I heard the word hyphy.

Starting point is 00:59:55 Yeah. We doing a show, right? Mind you, Blake's is hella small, right? Yeah. When it's popping. We sold the motherfucker out. It was the line was down the street. We couldn't let, this was our show.

Starting point is 01:00:05 We put it on. People are trying to get in there. You know, there's no windows. That motherfucker's just like sweating, right? J.T. comes through. J.T. the bigger figure comes through before. Um, skiing them come through perform. You know, it was like, we felt like, yo, we part of the Bay Area now.

Starting point is 01:00:22 Like, we got these legends coming through showing us love. I want to say E40s record release party was the same night because I'm thinking, I feel like we left from there and went to 40s release part of Sweet Jimmy's. Okay. Man, which is now the new parish. And sweet jimmies back then. Yeah. That was a real OG Bay shit right here.

Starting point is 01:00:41 But that was a dangerous place to go. That place was getting shot up every other week. But listen. Speaking of danger, so I want to say we performing. So, you know, it's our show. So obviously we're going to end the night off. You know what I'm saying? So Fab and them have performed, and we all kind of performing together.

Starting point is 01:00:58 Oh, and we had a song maybe I think it was called New Beck, that ski for new. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me, balance, the team, Fab, essential, you know, skis doing the hook. You know, so I think maybe we was going to perform that song or something. I could be wrong. But anyway, it's dudes. While I'm performing on the side, they just doing too much. I'm like, yo, Fab, because I know they're from Oakland.

Starting point is 01:01:21 I'm like, yo, Fab, what's up with your people? He's like, man, they just Heifie. That was the first time I heard Heifie. But at that point, Haifie just meant like you being like... Turned up. Way too turned up. Like in a destructive way. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:01:34 Like, yo, like, I'm like, yo, try to calm these dicks down. Like, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, so that was the first time I heard the word Heifie. So this is like, you know, I don't know, we did so many shows. I think it was that show. It might have been 2002. This is after the MTV thing.

Starting point is 01:01:54 And like while you're functioning with ski and what is it is creeping up the radio? It might have been right before what is it. It might have been or maybe right. It ain't really on the radio, but it's out. It's crazy. Sweet Jimmy, I've been in Sweet Jimmy's when it got shot the fuck up, bro.

Starting point is 01:02:09 That plays. Bro. You had to go at that point in time in 2003. If you was a baby, area rapper, you had, you wasn't validated, you had to go through Sweet Jimmy. Period. Shout out the sweets, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, because everybody, and let me just say this. Like, this is just being completely real, you know. We coming up at that time, but I tell this to people all the time, the history, you're talking about the

Starting point is 01:02:33 barrier, because everybody obviously knows short, everybody knows 40. Keep to sneak, I've never seen a movement, a real street movement like Keek to Sneak at that time. Facts. Keep to sneak was the Bay Area. That's especially in the town, like the East Bay. But the East Bay was like, you know what I mean? Like everything kind of trickled off of that. Like, you know, the Oakland was like the hub of Hifee. Like Frisco's like it's own world.

Starting point is 01:02:59 Well, Friscoll was, you know, obviously San Quinn. Like, I love Frisk. Mess, San Quentin. You know what I got Mac Dre stories too. You know what I'm saying? But I just remember, because we coming up at the same time, I'm seeing it with my eyes, how to town. how the whole Bay Area, because, you know, at that time, I want to say,

Starting point is 01:03:17 I think Keith was living in Sack. Yeah. So, you know, local radio wasn't really supporting him until he came with that t-shirt, blue jeans and Nike's produced by, you know, Rick Rock. And, but I just saw his, like, bro, you couldn't even purchase nowhere. You couldn't even purchase a Keith to sneak CD. They were sold out. Literally, sneak asidal, all that.

Starting point is 01:03:37 Bro, all of them. High tech, pimping. They was gone, bro. You know what's crazy. Like, I was just talking to Plex, my. my home boy flexed out of this the other day. Everybody used to host the battles, right? It's my brother right there.

Starting point is 01:03:50 Delmont crew. Everybody that I came across in the town was trying to rap like three times crazy. Bro. Everyone was trying to rap like Kik. You know what? Shout out to three times crazy, man. Because those was one of the times, like I said, I was more on East Coast shit. But when we heard three times crazy, I was like, I felt like they was just dope all around.

Starting point is 01:04:11 It was like town shit. but like a lot of people didn't understand, you know, they, you know, but Keek was, Keek was on some spitting shit. Yeah, he was. B.A. B.A. was crazy. And Adermann.

Starting point is 01:04:22 Ader Man was like, had some depth. Yeah. Keeke had the style. Bart was just kind of lyrical. Yeah. I was like, we kind of like, front line, we kind of was like, yo, oh, you know, their songs is getting played.

Starting point is 01:04:31 Like, that's something that we could kind of be dope like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And because when you're in the bay and you realize, it's like, you kind of lose sight of the fact that it's this little insular bubble because it seems like there's so much opportunity within it that it's like if you find out what moves that crowd and you're going to rock with it.

Starting point is 01:04:50 So not to say anything, maybe even to a detriment. So around that time, we're on the radio. We get in play, you know, Camille 94. You know, the local radio station. We get played like 40, 50 times a week. You know, I didn't under, that's, so that was my beginning of my music career. Yeah. So we're doing all these shows.

Starting point is 01:05:11 We getting paid. We're getting broken. off every weekend. Thursday through Sunday, we're getting broke off thousands of dollars yeah, you know, to do a show. I didn't understand touring. I didn't understand none of that. All I know is like, this is what you do. And were those records moving outside of the Bay at all? Like- A little bit, yeah. So we was going to Vegas down here in LA, a little bit, San Diego, Portland. The markets that support the Bay essentially. The markets that support the Bay. Seattle. We end up getting a deal through, you know, that was through like a, we went through an

Starting point is 01:05:40 independent label that was part of, um, Warner, you know what I'm saying? So everybody started kind of getting swooped up, Fab got swooped up, I believe. The team kind of got swooped up. You know, they re-released our album. That's when we put Bangit on there, you know what I'm saying? Which is a another bang? Was Bangit a bigger single than what is it?

Starting point is 01:05:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Radio-wise, it was bigger. Yeah, yeah. But Street, you know what I mean? Yeah, what is it? What is it? That's a classic. Yeah, yeah, that was like the one that everybody was playing in the town and everywhere,

Starting point is 01:06:07 you know what I mean? So, and then shortly after that, as you're becoming, y'all are one of the premier groups in the Bay Area. You're not really focusing on, you still did some battle rap shit. Like I know you. No, I completely, I had done no, after 2003, I had did no battle. So when was the, this is a fabled battle. I know the battle rap community would be piss if I don't ask about it.

Starting point is 01:06:27 The legendary unreleased battle, locksmith versus Iron Solomon on Fight Club. When was that? Okay. So that was 2006. Okay. So at that time, I'm doing the front lines. stuff. This is where I'm thinking like, yo, we about to get this deal.

Starting point is 01:06:45 You know what I mean? We got this deal. Once they put the money, you know what I mean, the record label folds, all that kind of bullshit. So now we're back to like doing this shit independent. All right. At this time, you know, front line, I think we released no, we hadn't released our third or second album, however you want to look at it.

Starting point is 01:07:00 But I'm starting to kind of do like a little solo, record solo songs again and that type of stuff. And you have two legitimate regional hit records. Absolutely. Absolutely. And other, you know, we had other records that was popping records too. You know what I'm saying? And that was getting mixed show spins and shit like that.

Starting point is 01:07:17 But I start seeing smack. Okay. Smack DVDs. So they bring the smack DVDs. You know, we get them in Rasbunes. We watch them like, oh, I never seen battle rapping like this. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, this is kind of maybe I'm getting the time frame mixed up.

Starting point is 01:07:34 No, no, no, no. I'm messed up. I hadn't seen it yet. I go to New York in 2006. I did. I sell one smack battle. Murder Moog against Jay Mills. Okay, classic.

Starting point is 01:07:49 That was the first thing. I'm like, oh, okay, what's the... And we just happened to go to New York. I want to say, like, the next month or so, me and Skee, EA ski. We go out there, we literally walking through Harlem, I see Murder Moog's guy, who I know this from the battle or something.

Starting point is 01:08:08 I'm like, yo, that's his dude. And I'm like, I want to get a part of this or something. You know what I'm saying? He connects us with the guy from Fight Club. Right. International P. No, the guy who runs it. Okay, okay.

Starting point is 01:08:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Connectes us. He sees some of my battle. He hears some of my stuff. He's like, oh, yeah, locksman, they had kind of heard about me. It's like, okay. He's like, yo, we want to get into, Locksman, if you want to get in the battle?

Starting point is 01:08:33 I'm like, yeah, I want to get back in. Fuck it. You know what I'm saying? Mind you, my mind frame, I'm not really understanding how much battle rapping has evolved in those three years. Yeah. I saw like one battle, you know, on the smack, one or two,

Starting point is 01:08:45 I'm like, okay, I didn't really understand it, you know, but I figure my shit is dope. I could just do this shit. Yeah. He, uh, so they set up, they set up a battle. It was like, okay, you're going to do a battle in Atlantic City. You're going to battle this kid named Ian Solomon. All right. It's easy.

Starting point is 01:09:04 I can handle this, you know what I'm saying? Man, I walk into a buzz saw. You feel like they was trying to line you up or? At that time, I was just pissed off because I just felt like, man, I should have been more prepared. I just thought I could just kind of get in there and coast and win. Yeah. You know, and Solomon, he was just prepared.

Starting point is 01:09:23 And I could just tell. So right after that battle, honestly, bro, like I said, this is 2000, I wasn't on the internet. I wasn't on YouTube. I didn't go on YouTube. You know what I mean? Like, I knew it was a thing, but I didn't watch videos on you. I watched videos on TV. You know what I'm so I kind of went back and I looked up. I was like, oh, this dude has got hell of battles. I had no idea. He had

Starting point is 01:09:42 battle for Soros and all these people. And then realized there was this whole battle community that existed online that I had no idea so after that I kind of put that in the back of my brain I was like all right I'm gonna get my shot to battle again whenever this shit happens when I come back to New York I'm gonna be prepared I wasn't even thinking about the bay I was like when I come back to New York I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna be ready to tear some fucking hands up yeah because it was mainly in places like New York and shit there was nothing at least I wasn't aware of anything going on in the Bay or in California that was battle shit on a high level there was yeah it wasn't

Starting point is 01:10:15 Like that though yeah. It wasn't like that. I had no idea about it. We were building it. I had no idea what you were doing it. Yeah, we was building it. So I, and that we put out another front line record. But the meantime, in the back of my mind, I'm still salty.

Starting point is 01:10:26 I'm like, I want to get back in the battle. But they, why'd they vault that footage and never put it out? Well, the footage was, I don't think it was ever supposed to be like, it wasn't supposed to be a part of nothing. I think it was just, I mean, I think it was probably, I think it was just a warm-up for Solomon. Like, okay, yeah, yeah. I think it was just like, you know what I'm saying? Like it was, you know how like, you know how I mean, look, I don't know that, but I'm just saying it kind of looked like, shout out to Iron Solomon.

Starting point is 01:10:52 Once I went back and did my research, I could tell like he was already building a reputation. He's a whole ass demon out here. Yeah, he was already built a reputation in New York and he was just like a battle. He was battling people. And I realized there was a whole scene that was existing. You know what I'm saying? Right. And I was like, oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:11:10 And then I realized fight club was a whole thing. You know what I'm saying? I didn't really, I didn't even know what? that was, you know what I mean? And then fight clubs start airing their battles, you know, their battles on the, on TV. Remember? On TV, MTV 2. And that was, you know, I mean, that's when I first saw math and all that kind of stuff. Serious Jones. Serious Jones. And, you know, he battled gin. So I was like, okay, this is, so mind you, I'm in back in the bay, doing front line stuff. We put out another album. You know, we still on the radio. Yeah, you still,

Starting point is 01:11:37 we're still doing summer jams and all that kind of shit. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, in New York, they're doing battles. I got to get back over there. So I, I start getting myself ready, and then I come back to New York again a couple years later, and I reconnect with them in fight club. You know what I mean? But they're not doing it no more.

Starting point is 01:11:55 They're like reing up to do again. I'm like, yo, I want to get in the fight club. Let me, you know what I mean? Y'all put me in that battle. Let me come back again. Let me get in this shit. I'm ready for this shit now. But they wasn't doing it.

Starting point is 01:12:05 But at that time, I'm like I'm doing like EO. Dub. You know, I'm going to EO.dub, rocking up there, going up there every week while I'm in New York. And I'm kind of getting myself back into that mind frame. But there's no battles going on. Then I come back and I see what y'all doing. So, okay, before then, though, I want to know what you was thinking when the Hafei movement really wound up popping off. Oh, yeah, we was, uh-huh.

Starting point is 01:12:32 Because I feel like y'all music is kind of in opposition to what's going on with that. Although it had a similar sound and all that, like your content, like, you're all about, like, being. sharp and smart-minded and like not dumbing out. And all these fools are talking about go dumb. Yeah, yeah. Taking a lot of drugs. That's like the antithesis. Well, you know what?

Starting point is 01:12:55 The Hy-Divus movement, it kind of. It was fun though. I loved it. No, it was fun. No, it was great for us. I mean, look, you know, we would go into clubs every night. You know, you meet ladies, you know what I'm saying? You're doing all this, you know, but I didn't really like,

Starting point is 01:13:07 I just didn't like the drug element because we- It's a big part of it. It's a big part of it. But not necessarily. It didn't have to be. It didn't have to be. But it was a part of it. It was ingrained into it.

Starting point is 01:13:21 But not a, so the music side, like I said, the hype, the heifi kind of destructive element, the first, like when I heard it, when Fab was like, yo, they just being hyphy. I was like, okay, that's just people having fun going too far. Yeah, they're like banging turfs though while they're doing it. But it could get like somebody did. I felt like it was like a little thing. We had to like stop it. Like, why? East Oakland.

Starting point is 01:13:43 Exactly. Then you had people from Richmond, you know, all that kind of stuff. But the music was fun. It was beneficial. And I can look back at this as a, you know what I mean? As a mature man now and be like, okay.

Starting point is 01:13:54 But like it was, it had those good elements, but we just didn't really like the destructive element and the drug element. So when it started going more into the drug stuff, we were like, nah, we ain't with that.

Starting point is 01:14:06 We're not like, why are we promoting drugs? Like, well, we never was going to promote drugs. No, you didn't. So we was just like, and people was trying to, like, Like, for instance, let's just take the situation for Mac Dre. Yeah. Shout out to Mac Dre.

Starting point is 01:14:18 You know, we, you know, I got stories. I ain't going, you know, going all day about MacDray. But MacDray, you know, was one of the first people. I remember meeting him at the grill embracing us, embracing Frontline. Cool-ass dude. Balance, Mr. Fad. He was like, y'all, y'all, y'all, niggas is dope. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:14:33 So we would be right in the studio next to MacDray. That's when he was the man. I mean. No. You, okay. So here's the thing. And this is just my perspective. I remember in 2000, so I didn't even know about MacDray.

Starting point is 01:14:48 I knew MacDray from the old MacDrew. Yeah, Robillum, yeah, YBB, yep. He went to jail. I didn't know nothing else about it. Little Rick from Richmond hits me up, like, yo, he hits us up. Yo, he hits up, I don't know if he hit up left or me. He was just like, yo, y'all want to do a show? Like, yeah, he's like, yeah, we're doing a show out in the Sonoma State.

Starting point is 01:15:12 That's where the places where Drey was popping. So let me tell you. So this is like, this is like 2000, 2001. He's like, yo, we're going to all caravan out there, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can go out there, you know, Santa Rosa, Sonoma State. I'm wondering if it was Petaluma, the Phoenix Theater. No, it wasn't that. It was on campus.

Starting point is 01:15:33 Yeah, yeah. It was on campus. Yeah. So I want to say it was Sonoma State. Yeah, yeah. We go out there. So we didn't know. We hadn't really done that many shows.

Starting point is 01:15:42 Little Rick says come out there do the show. We're trying to do any shows we can get. We get out there. It's a long-ass line going to the video. We're like, who are these people going to see? Like, what's going on? So I asked just, yeah, who are you here to see? We're here to see Mag Dre.

Starting point is 01:15:58 It's all white people. Yeah. And we like, we didn't know we was opening up for Mac Drake. We didn't know he was performing with Mac Dre. So, so Little Rick was cool with Mac Dre. That's his homie. You know what I'm saying? So Little Rick, you know, put the show together,

Starting point is 01:16:11 which was so dope for him to connect us on that, put us on, have us open. You know what I mean for Mac Dre? I think we performed, but Dre didn't even get to perform because the crowd was so crazy. It got shut down. The police, this campus police shut it down.

Starting point is 01:16:26 And I saw it was like, mind you, nobody in the bay that I knew around, was talking about Mac Dre. And that's the funny thing too. So Mac Mall, one of my favorite rappers of all time. So there was, and you know, they was all, that was the, Young Black Brother Records.

Starting point is 01:16:43 Mac Maul, Mac Dre, Young Lay, you know what I'm saying? Ray Love, you know what I mean? So I was like super tapped into all those. Shout out Kyrie. Shout out Kyrie, one of the best producers of all time. Yeah, we did some work with Kyrie. Yeah, he's the man.

Starting point is 01:16:58 But, so I was like tapped into Dre more than a lot of other people, even when I was in L.A. No one had fucking heard of that shit. Because you like. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now check game. Nobody in my circles in

Starting point is 01:17:11 Oakland, you know, Berkeley, Richmond. The whole, nobody was fucking with that shit. That's what I'm saying. But I had a roommate, my boy Kev, he was from Martinez. And, like, that was one of the first things he said to me was like, you listen to Mac Dre. I was like, Mac Dre. See, Martinez is kind of out there. It's out there.

Starting point is 01:17:32 All those outskirtals, like, places like, so, like, obviously in Friscoe, Nicotina is the man. Fools wasn't really slapping Nicotina in Oakland and Richmond like that. But now they do, you feel me? But in all those white towns, Drey Dog. Yeah, Drey Dog. That's what I remember, man. They love him in them places.

Starting point is 01:17:52 You know what I mean? And it was the same for Dre. So you're right. But you wound up connecting with him and shit? Yeah, so we, you know, we didn't get to meet him that night because the show got canceled. But then we ended up meeting them back when we was kind of start, we met him at the grill, did, opened up for him. We had like a community.

Starting point is 01:18:11 Little Rick put that together. Again, shout out Lil Rick. It was a community show for one of the young homies who I got killed. Football player, got a scholarship. He was going to Dale and got a scholarship. He got a scholarship. He got killed. So we did a benefit.

Starting point is 01:18:21 Matter of fact, I want to say we did two shows that night. It was the night of our record release. Little Rick was like, yo, be dope if y'all come through, you know, do the show. We end up, you know, performing, you know, opening up for Mac Dre, you know, seeing Mac Dre. But Mac Dre, like I said, from my perspective, he was not that big in the town yet. The town, these places, I didn't feel like they fully embraced him at that point. 2003, though, he was out of there.

Starting point is 01:18:48 I want to say early 04. 04, you know what I'm saying? Well, he died in 04. 04, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, but we had already seen like two years early. I was like, yo, how was he packing out these places way out on the outskirts? You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:19:02 And then I remember he did a show in San Francisco. Shout out to Chuck, Dund Deal. You know what I'm saying? He was doing Dund Deal entertainment at the time. He was putting out these shows in Frisco every year. weekend and like once a month in Frisco at the Mission Rock. Okay, yeah, yeah. And if you was popping at that time, you did your album release or whatever, you did a show

Starting point is 01:19:22 at Mission Rock. That kind of gazed how popping you were. Space 550, Mission Rock. Space 550. But Mission Rock was Chuck's. That was the spot. You went through Mission Rock. We did it.

Starting point is 01:19:32 Keek did it for, I want to say everybody had to go through Mission Rock at some point in time. When Dre did it, shut it down. Yeah. And it was all, and I want to say it was like, It was white folks. You know what I'm saying? Like, for some reason, those, they came, they, they supported Dre. And then I kind of feel like the hood, not saying the hood didn't support him,

Starting point is 01:19:50 but then they came around. Right. You know what I'm saying? Well, especially when a lot of them drugs became more popular in the hood. I mean, look, because like there was a whole, to me it was. That was the first time I heard about it. Hifee, to me, it was like hood raves. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:05 They're on rave drugs. You know what I mean? The tempo, the music. It turned into that. Yeah, like, that's really what it was. Well, that's the first time I heard things. You know what I didn't know what that was until people you know what I'm saying I was like oh that's what He invented that word. He invented it. You know what I mean? So Dre was a genius in that way. Now when you look back and you say like, yo he he created really an independent empire with that shit. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Like how did he how did he do that? But he did it and then I feel like this is just my opinion once he passed away it just like it just went a hundred times even bigger. Yeah that was that was that I mean that's really what launched it. But his model was so dope because.

Starting point is 01:20:41 even at that time, you know, while he was still alive, he was putting out albums after DVDs. And I remember going into Rasputin's and he was number one every time. You know what I'm saying? So you saw it coming like, what's going on? Like who, you know, who's buying this? And it just shows you how, you know what I mean? And then around 03 is when everybody realized like, yo, this dude is a problem. Yeah. If you don't know now you know. Because I feel like, me personally, I was so just like stuck on Kik. I just thought like Kik, you know what I mean? Kik was so dope. and then you had somebody coming from Valleo

Starting point is 01:21:13 and he just like turned it up to a whole other level and he brought his movement and you couldn't deny it. So yeah, rest in peace, McGrath, you know, Miami, Kilo, all those guys. And they always showed us love because I feel like Vallejo in Richmond is so closely intertwined. Intertwine, there was some static at certain points too. But yeah, yeah. It's so, hyphy movement, y'all are still,

Starting point is 01:21:38 y'all are doing your thing. Did you kind of feel like, because you weren't like indulging in some of the activities that those people were like that were at the forefront of that did y'all kind of feel like outsiders to it well we just never consider ourselves

Starting point is 01:21:53 hyphy you know once it became like a brand I was like yo we didn't want to be locked into that so we didn't go full on like y'all we hi Fy we was just like that ain't never been us I never heard y'all say that yeah we never even said the word hyphy you know what I'm saying if you said it it was never like we are hypey exactly yeah

Starting point is 01:22:10 It was just like, you know, and then it got to the point where I felt like it was going too far where it was becoming destructive. You know what I'm saying? Where people, I'm just like, yo, so I just personally didn't want to be associated with that element of it. But now, like, looking back, I'm like, oh, obviously it was a dope. We contributed to it. We helped, we helped found it.

Starting point is 01:22:30 Yeah. That new Bay movement is what, like, jumped it off. That was the precursor to it, 1,000%. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, 40, rec cemented. You know, obviously, we was. doing, like I said, we was doing, going to Sweet Jimmy supporting 40, short kind of came back to the federation was super, yeah, that was a, Rick Rock.

Starting point is 01:22:48 I feel like it was so funny, like the Federation coming from, you know, and like they're from Fairfield and they like sound like they're from Richmond, you know what I mean, and like y'all, or they sound like they're from Oakland type shit. And y'all from the rich, too, like, I feel like the, at one point, front line and federation and the team, those were like the three groups that were at the forefront. Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like we were like those new guys on the block. You know what I'm saying? Kik, like I said, Kik had already kind of been around because of the three times crazy. He was a legend. He had been cemented. He already was like seameded with his group. And then when he kind of had his resurgence with the, you know, around that time, I feel like he, you know what I mean, he started getting radio play.

Starting point is 01:23:30 Right. He had already been so big. I kind of feel like, I feel like probably the only difference between Kik and Mack Drey was that Kik got radio play first. He did, and he was also, the thing about Keek is like, his style is so off the wall, a lot of people can't understand it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it got even more kind of, I think he kind of, I mean, it's just my guess. Because when you listen to the early albums, you could clearly understand. For sure. But then he started getting kind of like, you know, he starts swagging or whatever you want to do with it,

Starting point is 01:23:59 like, with the style. And people's like, yo, that shit is turned up. And just like the culture, I think the, you know, the, if you off something, that shit sound even crazier, you know what I mean? So I feel like his style. just evolved and it just kind of came this thing of its own and it became so distinct and then by the time you get to super

Starting point is 01:24:14 hyphy it's like out of here and that record still goes to this day but like you know you're right though back on like the sicko album and the stacking chips album you can understand them a lot absolutely but you know if you in the bay you could you know it's so funny like growing up in LA and I fucked with Bay Area music way more than most people did but Bay Area music I didn't understand

Starting point is 01:24:36 like I fucked with 40 in the click I had records since I was like young. But when I moved to the bay and I actually heard E40 on that soil, he became one of my favorite rappers of all time which he is to this day. Because you don't really understand

Starting point is 01:24:51 you're not going to fully feel the impact of it until you up there and you like just become privy to that lifestyle. It's different. It really, really do. And, you know, so on the heels of that hypey movement, you're still doing front line shit. I remember you guys and you left and ski had a song.

Starting point is 01:25:12 I think it was called The Truth or something like that. Yeah, yeah, that was on our last, that was on the last Frontline album. Which, 2007. 2007, yeah. And that was like, y'all are wrapping your asses off on that. That was like the first type of like double time type of shit. Yeah, you're really snapping on there. And you're talking about, and that was on the radio too.

Starting point is 01:25:30 Yeah. And you're talking about. We used to get radio playing all these songs. Right. But y'all are talking about very lofty things. Yeah, yeah. I think I don't want to say it's like an anti-hy fee, but it was kind of... Yeah, we were talking about like, look, everybody, we just, I think our main goal at that time,

Starting point is 01:25:47 maybe even in a harsh way, but we were trying to say, like, look, you can be from the bear, you don't have to do that. Yeah, yeah. You can be dope, you know what I'm saying? And you can still be dope. And everybody showed us love and show respect. I mean, there was a little bit of friction, but it was nothing. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:26:00 It was all love, like, you know, all the guys now, like Mr. Fabb is dope and everything he's doing. Like we all homies with that 40. And Fab always been lyrical too. Fab has always been lyrical. But even the up and coming dudes, like, you know, it's always love. But we just wanted to be like, yo, like, we on some lyrical shit. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you can't, don't, don't, we just don't box us in.

Starting point is 01:26:23 You know what I mean? And then, you know, you made the return to the battle wraps. And it's crazy. What's really dope is you and Ski reached out to me. Yeah. Because y'all has, you know, y'all had seen the battle's popping off on World Star. and then you could have gone back to New York and rocked and tried to do some shit with them

Starting point is 01:26:41 and I think you had told Ski like why don't we just, these fools is in Oakland why don't we just reach out to these dudes? I saw it on World Star. And then Ski hits me up on MySpace and he was one of the first like, other than like the homies from Hiro and shit. He was like the first person

Starting point is 01:26:57 in the rap game that had ever like hit me up like yo what's all doing is dumb and I... Because ski is a hip hop head. Exactly. And I had looked up to him forever And like, we became real cool that, you know, I had his birthday party and all that. Like, that was the homie, and he still is to this day.

Starting point is 01:27:13 But it's shoutouts to, you know, Big Bra, E.A. But what's, you know, what's crazy is around that time, I think Locke was focusing on, you know, like, I don't know if he was in school or he was. Oh, Left. I mean, Left was in school. Yeah, he was in grad school. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:30 And you started to really lean into doing more solo material. And it seemed like, end of this day, I'll say it, you know, since 2008 to now, you don't give a fuck about being on the radio. Like, and it seemed, that's like a sharp departure from your early stages of your career. It's like, and the funny thing is, you wound up becoming way bigger than you ever were.

Starting point is 01:28:01 You broke out of the Bay Area and, you know, but I feel like you leave. meaned way more into hip hop. And it started with, it's funny because the video is on my YouTube channel. He asked me to put it out. That's because I didn't even know YouTube. You didn't have a YouTube channel. Rare form.

Starting point is 01:28:16 Yeah, yeah. That was my first kind of like solo. That was the first and like your... But here's the crazy thing. That song was on the radio. They was playing an issue on the radio. Right. All bars.

Starting point is 01:28:26 No hook. But you wasn't seeking out radio. And I know you've gotten radio places. Yeah, yeah. But that's not like unique. I mean, you literally say, like Kanye please come out the closet. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:28:38 Like, like you literally, you're saying crazy shit, you know what I mean? And like you're just having these double entendres and real, because the type of, like you sound like wake up show versus. Yeah, yeah,

Starting point is 01:28:50 but it was over a hard, a hard as the, you know what I mean, with kind of like some dark kind of West Coast piano. Wow, wow, wow, the guitar was. I think G.Coop might have played on some of that stuff. Shast of my dog, G. G.C.

Starting point is 01:29:00 Yeah, yeah. That's, um, to this day, G-Coop on some of the biggest records in the world. But you know, what's crazy about that track is that ski, at that time, we had just started, we had, you know, ski was kind of working on stuff. He was like, I was solo. I mean, I was still working with left, but I was, you know, we were focusing on me working on some solo stuff.

Starting point is 01:29:22 And we didn't kind of really know what direction to go in. And I, I want to say, I already had that verse. I don't know to what beat. I just was writing bars. And I just spit it to ski. And I think he just was like playing some drums. start rapping he was just like and he just programmed the drums and I wrapped the verse

Starting point is 01:29:38 and then he played all the stuff around it yeah you know what I think he brought in some you know an instrumentalist or whatever some session play you know added some stuff around you constructed it got constructed it and then I think I maybe re-recorded it to do that and then the shit just like we shot a video matter of fact we shot the video for that the day after the disaster battle

Starting point is 01:29:58 okay so yeah you wound up you're battling the top dudes that we had to offer um you're battling the top dudes that we had to offer um you You battled passwords. You battled daylight. You battled disaster. Then Johnny Storm, I think, was your last battle that you went, which is a crazy run right there.

Starting point is 01:30:13 And you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, grind time. Yeah, grind time era, doing the damn thing. And your solo career is starting to blossom. So what wound up happening when you and ski wound up like going in different directions? I've always wanted to know, you know, like what happened? I know you might not want to get into. It's all good. It's not even, it was nothing even like negative or anything like that.

Starting point is 01:30:38 It was just like, you know, as time grows on, you grow older. You know what I mean? You grow more mature. You want to do things. You want to venture off and experience different things. And I kind of wanted to just take my career into my own hands. You know, at that time, I'll never diminish anything that E.A. Ski has, like, he's contributed to so much of who I am as an artist helping me, like showing me how to do stuff, especially as a solo artist. Because, you know, prior to that, how I was always rapping with Left. You know, that's my brother, you know? And then Ski was like, hey, you ever think about recording something on your own?

Starting point is 01:31:08 You know what I mean? Like, you know, why don't you give it a try? Or, you know, I had wanted to do it, but I didn't know about producers or anything. You know, so he kind of just like kind of helped me and kind of, you know, helped me mature as an artist to get me to that point. Right. And then at one point in time, I made a trip to New York and start linking with people Dame Dash and Ski Beats out there.

Starting point is 01:31:29 Amazing producer. And at that point, I'm still working with. EA ski, but then I started networking with other pros and I just kind of wanted to be more control of my own. Because at that time, ski was kind of like my mentor, not officially, but like a manager. You know what I mean? And then I start learning stuff on my own and I kind of wanted to just handle the business on my own.

Starting point is 01:31:47 Well, and ski, me knowing him and like, he's very methodical. Yes, very much. Very deliberate with how he releases things. He wants things to be a certain way. And if you're not going to be on that. Yeah, I don't think that was the problem. because I'm still that way now with my shit. You know what I'm saying? I'm still very deliberate.

Starting point is 01:32:06 But I think it just comes as you mature as an artist. Every man has to step out on his own. So there's never any animosity. Never. I've never said a bad thing about ski. You know what I'm saying? I've never heard him say anything. I haven't either.

Starting point is 01:32:20 You know what I'm saying? So I have nothing but respect for him and CMT. You know what I'm saying? For what they created. They had such a large contributing factor. I still think that they are him and they together are, the dopest producers has ever done this shit.

Starting point is 01:32:34 To this day. It's still, you know me doing dope shit. Ski is, I mean, you could argue he's the greatest producer in Bay Area history. Exactly. I just think that we had so much success together early on. It's like hard hard at, because the same thing happened

Starting point is 01:32:46 with Ski Beats. I go to New York and I start working with Ski Beats. We did like a project together. I did some stuff with him. We had a whole other album. But then I just started going, you know what I mean? As musically, you want to do other shit. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:32:58 And that's, you know, Ski Beats, that's a dude that fucking. and produce Camp Lo. He just happened to produce Jay-Z's first album. Yeah, he was on a fucking reasonable doubt, you know. And, like, what's funny is that Lucini beat was originally, Jay-Z was about to have that, and then Camp Lo got it,

Starting point is 01:33:14 and the Can I Live beat was supposed to be for Camp Lo, and then Jay-Z got it. No, Can-I-Live. Yeah, Can-I-Live. One of them was Skee, no, ski was going to rap on it. Right, but Camp Lo, also, like, because there's a lot of controversy about it, because they say that Jay was,

Starting point is 01:33:31 using the cadence that, uh, that they, oh, that the flow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but no distant camp low, but you got to understand, ski beats was a rapper too. Right. So ski had a lot of influence on flows and raps and hooks. So a lot of those songs with ski beats songs. Makes a lot of sense. You know, I've been, you know, that's me and ski are very close, you know, ski beats I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. So I've stayed at his crib. I've heard these records. He's told me the stories. So it might have been him then, yeah. So I'm not saying that camp low didn't create that. I don't know. I don't know. specifically one song, but I know that a lot of the tracks, original tracks that Jay-Z got were

Starting point is 01:34:08 Ski beats tracks. Right. Because Ski was in a group with my man Tone Hooker called Original Flavor. Yep. So original flavor, they were rapping together. Jay came wrong. Matter of fact, Jay was featured on one of their songs. You know what, you know what, yeah, yeah, can I get open?

Starting point is 01:34:25 You know it. Yeah, yeah, can I get up, rip it. When he was on that double time. Exactly. So Ski was doing that. Ski and tone, they were doing that. You know what I mean? And then...

Starting point is 01:34:34 The Jazz O wave. Exactly. So Ski hears Jay-Z. He wants to get beats. So he starts, you know, he's producing beats. Jay-Z comes on. He lets Jay Z rock over. Like, fuck, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:34:44 Let me, you know, you got the situation right now. Dame is trying to push that. And then, you know, it becomes fucking reasonable doubt. And what's crazy is to this day, Camp Lozsche, top 10 hip-hop record of all time, if you ask me. Amazing song. And I know that people be like,

Starting point is 01:35:00 what would have happened if Jay-Z had that record? I don't think anybody could have done a better song than... With Camp Loader. Yeah, Lucini is fucking phenomenal. They own that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, to this day. It's literally one.

Starting point is 01:35:11 It's such a unique, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. The way they're rapping and what they're talking about, fucking being 1970s, diamond thieves. And they're doing that record in like, what, 97, I think it was? It's fucking crazy. So, all right, that's good to hear that there's no animosity with EA. No, no.

Starting point is 01:35:29 Is there a chance of ever doing a record with the A-Ski again? It's always a chance, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would like to see that happen on putting it out there. I'd like to see a reconciliation on wax at some point. So ski, if you wind up seeing this, you know, like from your dog lush Uno. So I also feel like, now obviously that was the precursor to you doing your thing, but then you really started to just take off as a solo artist.

Starting point is 01:35:57 you're putting out independently. Yeah, all myself, yeah. You know, videos that are, I feel like you lead to more, I think maybe from doing shit with ski, like your original goal of doing, I don't want to, like New York type music, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:36:13 You're not rapping over the Bay Area production as much. Like, you still dabble in it and things like that. Yeah, yeah, well, I'm just trying to do whatever music I do, I'm trying to evolve with the times. I'm trying to evolve. I'm evolving as an artist. You know what I mean? I'm meeting new producers.

Starting point is 01:36:29 I'm meeting cast from Atlanta. I'm meeting people from Europe. I'm meeting, you know what I mean? So your sound is evolving. Music is evolving, you know what I mean? But still being myself, it's still like, obviously, I love, you know, I'm a lyricist, you know?

Starting point is 01:36:42 So I like music with substance. I like music with lyricism. So my music is always going to be, you know, it's always going to showcase that. It doesn't have to be super complicated, but I still want to be a dope song. I want to grow as a songwriter. You know, not just, you know,

Starting point is 01:36:55 also I feel like, you know, as you grow older, as you mature, you start making songs that are introspective. You know what I mean? And you're talking about stuff like, that's always about it. Then I start producing, you know what I mean? So I'm getting, you know,

Starting point is 01:37:07 I'm starting learning how to produce and bringing in, you know, live musicians and doing it and kind of adding to my sound and trying to grow as an artist. You know, that's always been my goal, you know? And then, um, it makes a lot of sense. And then, you know, you start doing a lot of these team backpack, cyphers.

Starting point is 01:37:24 Yeah, shout out team backpack. I feel like, like the battle rap phase of your development kind of might have opened some doors in that regard. Absolutely. Yeah. And then it kind of battle rap opened the doors for, I want to say battle wrapping open the doors for everything that I did as a solo artist for sure. Do you think you'd ever come back and do a battle again? Look, I'd never say never, but it's definitely not something that's on the top of my brain. Yeah, I don't think you need to, but I'm, you know, I mean, if I, I look, I always did battles.

Starting point is 01:37:55 When you did those, you know, when I did the battles with you guys, like I said, the first time I saw, I was like, I want to do this. Yeah. Like everything inside of me wanted to do that shit. I was like, I want to get out there. I want to show these motherfuckers, I can battle, you know what I mean? So I had a burning desire. Whenever I felt like I didn't want to battle them, I was like, I'm just going to stop because I'm not going to do it just to get a check. Because, you know, on those battles, I never got paid.

Starting point is 01:38:17 Yeah, yeah. I just did it. Yeah. You got like a flight to Florida, slap, bro. Yeah, exactly, but I did it because I wanted to do the shit. And honestly, that last battle I did in the last battle, that was kind of like, I knew I was like, this is my last one. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:32 My mind is on music. You know what I mean? Like, I was kind of, I don't want to say half in. I'm not going to disrespect, you know, that battle or Johnny Storm because he's dope at and what he does. But I was just like, I was more focused on it. I was like, yo, I got these ideas. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:38:46 Like I was, my mind was, I had already mentally left. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I was just like, all right. Because I always did it. The goal was like I'm going to use this to brand myself as a solo artist. You know what I mean? Because I was so engulfed in front line.

Starting point is 01:39:02 I was like battling as a way to get myself known back out there as locksmith. And you definitely did that. And there's a few songs of years I want to talk about. First is you have a record called Nobody, which... Shut out Cato, produced by Cato. Yeah, yeah. That's like damn near a trap beat, I want to say. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:39:20 Absolutely, yeah. And he like does. beats like that, typically for more trapped out artists and things. In that record, which is really dope, you're kind of talking about a period in your life in like, from like the chronology of this conversation, sounds like sometime after the MTV battle before, before when front line started really popping off, you were kind of at a difficult point in your life and like financially, you talk about you had to like reach to your father for money.

Starting point is 01:39:54 Money, for loan. Which is really, I admire like the vulnerability you display on wax while not sounding soft. Exactly. That's a turnt-up song. Yeah. Like that shit goes hard. That's a dark-ass trap beat, but it's still turned up.

Starting point is 01:40:10 And that's the type of shit that rappers don't want to admit or talk about. And it's like, so at that point in your life, did you kind of feel like giving up on your dreams and going a more traditional death? I never thought about giving up, but it definitely was difficult. I think with that song, I kind of was going back to about 2000. So that song, I want to say, came out in 2017. Yeah. But I was kind of referencing back to right when I started when I was completely on my own.

Starting point is 01:40:36 Right. I mean, when I was going out to New York, I was just like, I mean, I was. No safety net. I wasn't living. I was living out there, but I still had my spot back in the bay. But I was basically sleeping on the homey couch. I was taking the train from upstate New York to, man. Manhattan, sleeping in Grand Central, sleeping in the train station, just trying to, you know, doing, you know, doing, at this time I'm doing those freestyles up at Sway's. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Sway hit you like, yo, can you come through in the morning? I'm literally, this is the biggest opportunity of my life. I'm like at Grand Central Station, like,

Starting point is 01:41:08 rehearsing bars like yo sway just hit me i gotta go up there and spit some bars what am i gonna but i got to sleep here tonight or i'm not gonna or i got to stay here and take the first train so i can come right back and change clothes because i don't want to go up there looking dusty right what i'm saying so that's just like it's like kind of me referencing back to that time where it's like i'm i'm on unemployment i'm literally i don't have no job no more because i'm staying i'm going to new york so much i don't have no job i can't really pay for this i'm taking my unemployment check you know what i'm saying taking this little bit of money so i'm buying a flight and flying the flight and shit and using them buddy passes.

Starting point is 01:41:41 You know what I'm saying? My cousin is hooking me up for it. I'm giving him money under the table. Like, yo, can I get one of them buddy passes? Flying out to New York sleeping on the homie's couch and just kind of like, so it's kind of referencing back to that time. Really, really dope song. Another song that I don't know if you really spoke on it too much.

Starting point is 01:42:00 It's a, what's it called, the hardest song ever? Yeah. And that right there is one of the most important records ever made in hip hop. And you know, you're talking about sexual abuse and, you know, your own, and your own experiences with that, which made me feel more comfortable about talking about things that I've gone through. And, you know, like, women that have abused me when I was younger. And I never spoke about that until I heard your record.

Starting point is 01:42:27 And it was like, wow, that, I felt like that took so much courage. Like, what was the thought process like making something like that? Yo, so on some real shit, that song came. about that wasn't even something that I even was like trying to talk about but what happened was is around around that time around I want to say 2012 or 13 or somewhere around there I started experienced severe anxiety like panic attacks like I was like I don't know what this is coming from like what's happening and it kind of forced me mentally emotionally to kind of like do some soul searching get some counseling you know what I mean like getting stuff out and

Starting point is 01:43:08 And it made me realize like, yo, I have this trauma that happened to me that I buried that I didn't know, you know, for those who are not, you know, the song is talking about an experience with sexual abuse, you know, as a kid. And sometimes people may not even think of sexual abuse or what you're going through, but I realized that that this thing had an effect on me. Right. And before I could even talk about it in a song, I had to talk about it to someone else, you know. And I remember, you know, speaking to my family, speaking to my father and something that we've never talked about. You know, I had to like. And he's probably tripping when he was. tripping, you know, he was. And I spoke about it to my, who was my then, my ex-girlfriend,

Starting point is 01:43:45 who's my girlfriend at the time. You know, we were very close. I was able to share that. And then it was a time, matter of fact, I think it was, I never forget this, MacLamore. The rapper MacLamore, it was backstage at a show, because I had did a song with him with Zion Eye, rest in peace. RIP, you know, Zoomby. He had put his song together back in like around that time. And then I want to say this is after a McLemore had like kind of blown up and I was a fan you know yeah I am a fan of you know what him and Ryan Luce had created that that music I thought it was just especially that that that that highest album was so dope and I remember I caught him backstage we were just talking he was just super cool and I was just picking his brain like bro like you know how he's like bro you know one of the

Starting point is 01:44:24 dovest things that he said I just made music that resonated with people you know what I mean and I noticed very honest very honest and they kind of made me feel more kind of I was like you know what So that kind of like, I kept that in the back of my brain. So then when this kind of situation happened to me, I was able to talk about it. I was like, I want to be able to be more vulnerable in my music. And that's kind of how that came about in that song. It's incredibly powerful. You know, I thank you for talking about that.

Starting point is 01:44:50 Because like a lot of my own experiences mirror that to the point where I didn't realize that this was, you know, like that even happened to me being like I hadn't labeled it as abuse. So I never really realized what it was. and then it's something that kept me sick for a long fucking time. Because you're trying to cope. Yeah, and I didn't even realize it. It's something I buried so deep.

Starting point is 01:45:12 And I know there's a lot, I'm sure you get hit up, I don't want to say every day, maybe every day, about that record in particular. I can tell you this. Sometimes, you know, it would be kind of weird when you perform that song

Starting point is 01:45:24 because, you know, because I kind of, you know, in my live shows, I try to like build it up and take it down and build it up again. You know, like to take people on a journey. You know, At least for me, I don't feel like everything got to be like super like turked up and lit. You want to have some moments where you bring the crowd into your world.

Starting point is 01:45:42 That's what make those high moments hit harder. Exactly. If it's just high energy out the gate, you have nowhere to go. Exactly. So sometimes I'd be performing like even at clubs. I'm like, do I really want to perform this song? And if it's a short set, sometimes I'm probably not. But if I'm doing like 20, 30 minutes, I'm going to do this song.

Starting point is 01:45:57 And sometimes I'd be like, man, this is a super hip hop crowd or this is a super like street crowd. Should I perform this song? but I end up doing it and every time I'm glad I do it because it kind of stops the momentum but people fucking stop and they listen and literally you're right

Starting point is 01:46:11 every time I perform that somebody comes up and is like yo thank you that happened to me that song really resonated with me I'm gonna look at that song and then they become a fan for life man you know what I tap in

Starting point is 01:46:22 and like yo man I just saw you in New York I just saw you in Oklahoma that song you performed I looked you up after that and it resonated with me I'm a fan of yours for life you know yeah that's amazing that like because there's all these stigmas you know what i mean and people don't want to talk about and on top of it you made it sound cool like obviously not the

Starting point is 01:46:43 experience you know what i mean like you made you made it sound good like you know and it's a dope song to listen to and it's like you know like you it makes you seem more of a man having in my eyes going doing that shit i think so yeah you got to you know being a man is not always about being like super tough. I mean, obviously you want to be strong, you want to be a survivor, these type of things but, you know, it's just real, it's real life, man. Expressing that vulnerability is very powerful.

Starting point is 01:47:12 And, you know, you have countless fire records. Thank you, my brother. Thank you. Even this year, you're putting out a bunch of videos. What's the next move? What's cracking? Yeah, the next move is I'm venturing out to, I started doing So I got some placements doing stuff for video games, commercials, TV. I just started working.

Starting point is 01:47:35 Get that paper play, boy. Yeah, exactly. That's dope. I got a, you know, first couple video games, uh, placement. So that's super dope working on an, I feel like during the pandemic, I was putting out a lot of music. Then this year, I kind of slowed down. You did drop a few videos this year, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:50 Yeah, early in the year. And then I kind of repost, you know, you repost stuff. Yeah. But I, I, I'm working on a new album. I think it's, you know, I've been recording it. People are like, you're like, yo, this is your best. shit that you've done. So I'm just super focused on. And I've been taking my time, like really crafting the songs, really crafting the visuals, the content. And I'm just excited about that.

Starting point is 01:48:10 And just, you know, ride whatever, you know, write, create this next wave, you know. How rewarding is it to know that you've been doing all this shit? Obviously, you collaborate with other people, but essentially this on your own, on your own terms, not bound to the radio. Although, like, songs pop off and get on the radio. I think we might have a few that might need to get on there in this next project. But yeah, it feels good, man. It's very, I'm just grateful. Like, this past year, even from a financial point, it's been my best, best year I've ever had.

Starting point is 01:48:42 Let's go. I love to hear that. I'm grateful for that. And, you know, I mean, you had to tell fear of God, do you feel me? No, I ain't. But, no, I mean, it's just been the best year. It's a blessing. You know, my father, like I said, I feel like my father's a super, he's a super smart guy.

Starting point is 01:48:59 I always go to him with like financial questions, information. I'm like, yo, what do you think of this? And he's like, look, you're growing every year. You need to just build on that, expand on it. And that's what I've tried to do. Even when it's hard, you know, when you're a content creator, you go through, you know, you got personal shit going on. Sometimes you're not motivated.

Starting point is 01:49:18 You know, the fucking pandemic, all that shit was rough. But you, you know, I just try to tell myself, you stay consistent. You work through it. And when you stay consistent, opportunities will present them. You know, you create your own opportunities. You just got to stay consistent with it. So I just keep that mind for him. That's how I'm able to kind of constantly grow, you know what I mean, keep creating art.

Starting point is 01:49:39 Now, this has been an amazing conversation. I want to ask a few topical questions to you because, like, I feel like this could potentially be the quintessential locksmith history archive, but, you know, there's a few things I want to touch on. First of all, you know, being half Iranian, there's a lot of you know, there's a few things that and there's a lot going on out there right now. Yeah. You know? In Iran.

Starting point is 01:50:03 In Iran as far as the, you know, like a, essentially like a woman's revolution and like just a whole changing of the guard. What are your thoughts on all that? I think it's a little more complicated than people put when you see things on social media. But I just really want, you know, this is my homeland. My father is, you know, was born there. You've been out there? I haven't been there in the long since I was a kid. Okay.

Starting point is 01:50:27 But I'll say this. It's a lot more complicated than people put, but I pray for peace. You know what I'm saying? I pray that things can be resolved in a way where things won't be violent. You know, I just want peace. But at the same time, I just have to say living in America, I think a lot of people see the way things are here and they think it's perfect. But I say this, you know, I've always considered myself, I come up through protests.

Starting point is 01:50:59 growing up you know you see berkeley going to protest speaking out against injustices I think you have to be very careful whatever country that it is to seek assistance from your oppressors wow you know what I'm saying

Starting point is 01:51:14 so people looking for America to be helped but then you have looking to look into America for help but then you have to look at well who put you in a lot of these situations in the first place that's just you know you just have to look at it and I'm not saying anybody's responsible for anything, but people need to understand to do their own research.

Starting point is 01:51:32 I don't jump on any bandwagon of anything. I always, and I'm not specifically speaking to the situation in Iran, I'm talking about any situation. When things happen, I always look at it and I look and see what the, like even with Black Lives Matter, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I'm black. You know what I mean? But when the Black Lives Matter things, obviously you see a horrible thing what happened to George Floyd, you know? But I always was like, yo, well, I'm with the concept of the thing. of Black Lives Matter, but what's up with this organization?

Starting point is 01:52:01 There's a big distinction between the concept and the organization. Of course the phrase Black Lives Matter, the sentiment is true. Like, we don't, we need justice. You know what I'm saying? That's why I've always been an advocate for black power. You know what I'm saying? These are things that I, you know, I'm a student of Malcolm X. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:52:17 Of Hodge Malik El Shabazz of the Black Panther Party. You know, I just, you know, spoke at an event with Bobby Seal. You know what I mean? So these are things about black empowerment. You know, black business. black ownership policing ourselves. That's what the Black Panther Party was. Look, we're gonna watch them

Starting point is 01:52:34 because we're gonna police our own communities. Black Lives Matter, I always was like, not the sentiment, but the organization. I'm always like, what's that about? Like, what's going, who's behind this? I always, I could see very early on that there was political um,

Starting point is 01:52:49 opportunities for this, you know what I mean? And I feel like a lot of times for black people. So here's a difficult thing about when you ask me something about, Iran. I'm a tie it to that. I'm not, I don't live in Iran. I can only speak from the standpoint of my father in my family rooms and people know, so, but I'm not there. I live here in America. And I can personally say that I feel like black people in America are used as pawns politically. You know what I mean? Whether it's the Democratic Party, whether it's the Republican Party or whether it's corporations, they're used as pawns. Whether you see black people dancing in the fucking

Starting point is 01:53:25 McDonald's commercial. You know what I'm saying? Like, what is that about? Like, why are you? You know what I mean? Like, okay, we're giving black people opportunities. We're marketing to them at, but what point are you pandering? You know what I'm saying? To them, at what point are you manipulating black people? And at what point are you actually taking away black people's power by saying you have to be this one way? So that's why I'm all about, you know, people having an opportunity to speak for themselves, but also understanding that there are other outside forces or other things that may have vested interest in funding your plight.

Starting point is 01:53:57 And it may not be really beneficial. official for you in the long run. So you can make those parallels to any other situation that you want. But I will say that I'm Muslim. Right. So my understanding of the way that I see the world is from an Islamic standpoint. And I'm not saying that from a perfect, like I'm this perfect, you know what I'm saying, Muslim. Like I, you know, I got flaws and I fuck up and do all kind of shit. But at the same time, I look at things from an Islamic standpoint. So I'll just leave it at that. understandable and I think it's a I'll say this, it's too lofty

Starting point is 01:54:30 of a conversation for me to touch without having all the proper education. Yeah, yeah, I think that anybody needs to have it you need to have a further education, but I will say that, and I'm not going to get too deep on this. I do appreciate you speaking on it though. I think a lot of people would want to hear that, so that's dope.

Starting point is 01:54:47 Now, just yesterday or I guess early this morning, we got the news takeoff from the Migos, passed away, you know, recently PNB Rock passed away. He had Mo 3, you had Draco the ruler,

Starting point is 01:55:02 a bunch and countless others. It's been, it seems like the last year. It's been crazy. It's brutal, brutal amount of, you know, what are your thoughts on all these rappers meeting this untimely demise

Starting point is 01:55:14 and balancing the street life with, you know, their newfound success? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know the details of those situations. I see just like what everybody else is see. I just saw, you know, on social media, the video. It's just heartbreaking, you know what I mean, to see a young brother.

Starting point is 01:55:35 I mean, not that this has any, you know, his life is worth something regardless of what he does his profession. But shit, takeoff was, he was like the dopest one to me. Like, you know, to me personally. So, you know. I literally was just on the podcast talking about how raw he was the day he died earlier in the day. For what I like as a rapper. You know what I'm saying? Like, yo, I would love to really hear, you know, he was only 28 or something like that.

Starting point is 01:55:58 28 when he passed. So it's like his life was just beginning. So it's just horrible. And he had so much success. I don't know what the details is. I just kind of briefly read some things that I don't want to speculate, but I don't think I could be wrong. But did somebody intentionally kill him? No.

Starting point is 01:56:15 Yeah. So it wasn't that, right? No one intentionally killed him. And he wasn't even the one involved in the altercation. So there was an altercation. There was an altercation between his uncle. Cuevo and, you know, on some dice game shit and it wind up going left and, you know, the bullets were coming from all directions. Supposedly, I wasn't there. And, you know,

Starting point is 01:56:35 supposedly some came from his own people. And, you know, I will say this, you know, and I'm not the spokesman for the black community. You know what I'm saying? I, you know, I grew up, you know, in these harsh environments, but I was fortunate enough, you know what I'm saying, to have my mother and father. But I can say this just from speaking with OGs like Bobby Seal, you know what I mean? Speaking with OGs and people that have in the community that have been doing this work. You know, I worked for a nonprofit organization as part-time when I was doing those battles. Right. I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:57:04 I was going back to my job. You know what I'm saying? Tutoring and mentoring kids. That's what I did. You always been a real conscious dude. Thank you. But I worked in a community hands-on. I went into the hoods and helped out and delivered groceries.

Starting point is 01:57:18 You know what I'm saying? In food to families in North Richmond. You know what I'm saying? In South Richmond. In the ghetto. I've been, you know what I mean, I've lived in those, in those same hoods, you know, and I will say that we have to, you know, in the black community, at one, at some point we have to, we've got to understand that it starts with us. You know what I'm saying? We know that all these forces are against us. That's what, that's what's the first things that we instilled in the young men that we were mentoring. Like, look, you notice what the situation is give yourselves the best opportunity, create an environment where you're not put in that situation because once you get in the system, them once you get in these things, they're going to do whatever that you, now you just become a number. You're just a cog in their system. And you have somebody like, you know, who can make it out

Starting point is 01:58:05 through rapping, you know what I'm saying? You just got to be extra, extra on your, and not saying that he wasn't, you know, because I don't know that situation. But I know there's certain situations. Like, I think it was, I could be wrong. I think Jay-Z had a conversation with Biggie. He said he was in the car Somebody said he was in the car with And it was just like, yo Either Biggie or Jay was like Yo, I can't do that shit no more

Starting point is 01:58:30 Right You know what I'm saying? Like, yo, you just, you got to, you know what I'm saying? Like I remember one of the homies Was telling me it was some situation with Jay Z He knew Jay Z and he went up to Jay And Jay was like, come on man, I can't do that shit No more, you know what I'm right

Starting point is 01:58:43 Like you know what I mean So it's just like when you get to some status man I don't know what his situation is But you know rest and peace to him He was definitely a multi-millionaire You got to move you know, hopefully you can move differently. But it's still, he should be here.

Starting point is 01:58:57 Absolutely. He should be here. You know, this guy had his whole career ahead of him. And, you know, these type of things can happen to anybody. So it's not like, you know, but it's just just unfortunate, man. So rest and peace, man. Very unfortunate. RIP, you know, our condolences to his family and all that.

Starting point is 01:59:14 Yeah. And apparently I heard that he was on good terms with offset as well. Hopefully this, you know, hopefully this, it's got to have an effect on those two. I would hope so. And offset, like, they got to be like, your life is, I would hope so. It's precious, man. Yeah. Because, you know, we've all lost somebody at some point in time.

Starting point is 01:59:34 And somebody that young and was so much, you know, so much ahead of him. Like, he only scratched the surface of his career, you know? Yeah, and literally in the been in the most successful group of the past 10 years. Like, I guess him 28 now, he was probably when Versacee dropped, he was like 20, 18, 19. Yeah, because that was like 10 years ago. Yeah, exactly. That was 2013, 12.

Starting point is 01:59:58 So you still live in the Bay Area. Still live in the Bay Area. Your music has gone way beyond the stratosphere. And I've always been proponent of the fact that there's no real Bay Area. There's a Bay Area sound. It's evolved. Well, there's a lot of different elements to it. As much as we have, all the 40s and shorts and all that,

Starting point is 02:00:18 there's still Hiro and the coup and, you know, like there's a new shit. But there's like, you know, like conscious under a Zion eye. There's like different elements to what comprises the bay. So I don't like to put the bay in a bubble. The bay has always been, you know? Always been eclectic. Everything from the mob figures, like Jacket, all that to, to locksmith. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:00:39 But you've really like gone into, at one point early in your career, you're really trying to like appeal to the bay because you're immersed in it. Then in your solo career, you go in a completely different direction. You still get love in the Bay, but you get love all over the world now, way more than I imagine. Thank you. You did before. What are your thoughts on the current state of Bay Area Hip-Up? I think it's dope, man.

Starting point is 02:01:04 I think it's even more there's no one sound. I mean, you kind of have a little, you know, you feel a little bit of that line, but it's so many dope artists. I mean, everybody's, you know, music and the way we deliver music is so much more accessible. I think it's dope, man. I really love it. I mean, you got lyricists, you got turf shit, you got club shit, you got conscious shit. I love it, bro.

Starting point is 02:01:30 I honestly think it's one of the best places it's been in a long time, you know? How has gentrification affected your views of the Bay Area? Does that affected your life at all? Absolutely, yeah. Has it hit Richmond like that? some property and it went up. Okay, there you go. I didn't even lie.

Starting point is 02:01:52 Has gentrification hit Richmond like that? That property, you don't like it. When that property go up, it's like, damn, shit, this shit was worth a lot more than it was 15 years ago. Invest. Invest, you know. But, yeah, you know, you want to keep things. But, you know, I like the diversity. I mean, Oakland still feels very Oakland.

Starting point is 02:02:12 I mean, it's, obviously there are things that are different. You know, you got the yoga studios and the coffee shops, but it's still the town. It's still there, you know what I mean? But it's a little bit, I guess it's kind of like Harlem, you know what I mean? You got it in there. I mean, yeah, but you don't want to see families losing their homes. The prices, the things have just skyrocketed. It's almost impossible to rent.

Starting point is 02:02:33 It's difficult. So I think that that's the downside. You know what I mean? In 10 years from now, Richmond might be, you feel me? I mean, you know, it's already changing. Right. You know what I'm saying? In neighborhood that, you know, that my family still live.

Starting point is 02:02:44 I'm like, am I in Richmond right now? Like, this shit. It looks kind of like how. Oakland looked 10 years ago or like eight years ago. That's what I started. I'm just like, wait, we in central Richmond right now? Like, wow. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:02:58 Like, so it, uh, in some parts, I don't like the fact that people are getting pushed out because it's so expensive and it's, you know, it's just almost basically impossible to afford in some areas. But then, you know, there are new businesses and opportunities. So it's capitalism, bro. Show is. And bro, like, this has been one of the longest, no-jumper, in a while besides our streams.

Starting point is 02:03:22 We could go on, I feel like, for another hour. But I know they probably go and call me off pretty soon, right? I know you probably was, yeah. Regardless, is there any final thoughts, anything that you didn't get a chance to convey that you want to? I want to say it's good to see you reinventing yourself. Thank you, sir. And doing what you do, I think that's very dope.

Starting point is 02:03:42 I think it's amazing what you guys have been able to, you know, the whole battle scene. Shout out to, you know, you direct and, you know, all. all the other organic, yeah. Smack, all those URL, all that, you know, what they've done, how battling is taken to a whole other level. That's just fucking dope. I hadn't listened to a battle in like 10 years,

Starting point is 02:04:04 but when I was on tour the other day, one of the homies was a battle rap fan. Yeah. And I got like a crash course in battling in like, seeing all the RBE shit and all that. All that shit, you know what I mean? So, but yeah, so it's dope, man. Congratulations on what you're doing.

Starting point is 02:04:18 And, yeah, man, thanks for having me. Means a lot, bro. Locksmith, God bless. Might have to have you come back for a part two. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. This shit was fire. Y'all know the vibes. And we about this bea-out.

Starting point is 02:04:32 This bea-a-old.

No Jumper - Locksmith on His Experiences with Mac Dre, Surviving the Bay Area, Battle Rap & More

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