No Jumper - Mark McGrath on Sugar Ray, His No Jumper Fandom, Sugar Gay & More

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

Mark McGrath sits down with Adam, for a delightful and hilarious deep dive interview about his career, his extensive No Jumper knowledge, and more!   / therealmarkmcgrath   ----- 0:00 Intro 0:15 How the "losing hearing" rumor started on a red carpet, he said it as a joke and it went viral 2:55 Mark won the jeopardy rock trivia at one point: "I dont like to brag but yes" lol 3:30 Being called a one hit wonder w their song "Fly" 5:00 "I loooove music Adam22!" and by 8th grade he tried to figure out how to become a musician full time 6:50 Adam says by way of Nu Metal he went to Hardcore and Metal, Mark says Fred Durst would be happy to hear that 8:15 First album with Nicole Eggert n*ked on the cover, they had to make a statement coz there was so much competition 9:01 Nirvana is directly responsible for Sugar Ray success 10:18 In the 90s you could lie to labels, no social media to counter anything 11:14 The Shrinky Dinx, they started the group to drink beer and play old songs 12:23 Growing up in Newport Beach, Mark was in awe of reggae, he was breakdancing too! 12:54 Changing their name to Sugar Ray, Sugar Ray never trademarked his own name, Mark says he can use it anytime tho 13:00 They told the label they were bigger than they were and 500 songs recorded, one thing led to another and they got signed by Atlantic for 1M 14:43 They set themselves apart by making a music video on a VHS in a pizza box and sent it to every label 15:55 Mark calls Adam the Joe Rogan of the Zesty Disciples 17:27 Adam is really locked in when he interviews ppl which is amazing 18:46 Howard Stern influence + Meat Puppets, one of Kurt Cbain's favorite band, they were gonna record one of Howard Stern's song called “Psychedelic Bee” 20:30 They pulled up to a college while on tour, they recorded the song that day, sent to their manager thru Fedex and that was it, couple weeks later the manager tells them "leave all your shit in Wyoming and come here to be Howard Stern" 24:50 The Fly appeal, they toured for 2 years with that song alone 27:20 Mark briefly gets emotional talking about the music memories with his mom 29:21 Mark said he hated Fly at first, he wanted to make it heavier like Deftones or Korn, when he heard the original version, super singy/lame and he was like "This aint it, I quit!" 35:00 Mark on getting Supercat on the song, turns out David Khan was super friend with him, called him, and boom! Came to the studio 37:20 They went huge overnight, Mark was ready for it! A dream come true 41:05 You got a tramp stamp? Mark says "I do...! Why WOULD YOU BRING THAT UP!" Mark shows the tattoo 41:51 Mark says Mr Cartoon is kinda the interview that brought him to No Jumper 44:45 How ppl love to hate Limp Bizkit but secretly love them, they're back on the road as we speak 47:15 Feeling the business pressure, labels needing singles, and growing as songwriters 53:45 Mark says King Yella is compelling and Ben Baller is full of it 57:15 The Sugar gay incident, it was a pre-grammy/Oscar party w Madonna 59:32 Ppl outside were already talking kinda crazy to the attendees, and Mark didn't like it, Mark says "I stayed on bid'ness" 59:00 Madonna says Mak walk me to my car, they walk out, he was feelin himself a little bit, as soon as Madonna drives off, he turns around to ppl calling him a F etc, Mark blacked out 1:02:15 Mark praises Desto Dubb! 1:08:00 Mark actually called Pharell for a song to find more success, Mark didnt like the song tho, years later Blink 182 told him Pharell tried to give him the same exact song 1:12:00 Mark points out who can and cannot snitch: “G FACE is "DOOOOONE!!" 1:20:15 Being a host at Extra, Mark asked Al Pacino about Britney/Kevin Fed and he turned him down saying: "You're better than that!" and walked off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do I need to put any headphones on? You don't have to know. Because I don't want to mess up my frosted tips. Okay. Very important for the kids at home. I thought that you were going to be a big headphones guy because it's been in the media. I definitely will. But how's your hearing right now?

It's okay. Okay. You did a deep dive, didn't you? Well, it just came up right away on the Google search. Like I was like, okay, he struggled with that. You know when you're on a red carpet and the dumbest thing you ever do is, um, some goes, Hey, Mark, you're gonna go, hey, man, I'm gonna go, hey, dude, 25 years of rock and roll. I can't hear anymore.

Yeah. And they go, oh, he was going deaf. But I was kind of just kidding. And then it became a thing. And I was like, it was on a daily mill. Oh, okay. And I just feel. That's the story of my life.

Like when I'm going viral, it's for a weird backwards reverse reason. Happened on cameo, the sugar gay thing, which we can talk about. And the going death thing. Right. Spending 30 years in rock and roll with like symbols behind me. Oh, yeah. That's definitely taken toll on my hearing. But it has to.

Yeah, no more than the average guy. And no one needs in ears more than me as. a performer but I can't stand them on stage really I just feel like I'm underwater or like I'm not in the environment it's just it's up the whole experience two fingers in your ear like just do that and go it just feels weird but you okay what I think that you probably do that I can't imagine doing is when you're talking on TV but then as you're speaking you also have somebody talking to you in the earpiece do you have to with that I've dealt with that and you know that's when you're doing especially

doing a live thing yeah and there's someone going all right mark and when you're coming up next you're gonna take it to a break and you're literally having a conversation like we're having now. Right. So he has three voices in your head and you're trying to like you know direct traffic. That gets a little gnarly for sure. That's a lot of multitasking. Yes, that's for sure. The live thing though like Ryan Seacrest, I don't care how you feel about him, man. He's the best in the world to doing that. Right. Never seen to make a mistake on American Idol in, what, 30 seasons of live TVs. Yeah, I would, the in ears are not my friend, but no one needs them more than me because I've had an on-off relationship with Key my whole life. I'm not the best

thing in the world's when I'm trying to tell you Adam 22. Okay, but see, that's interesting. say that as long as we're just going in the most random direction ever to start this which i'm so down for frosted tips okay we're going all over the place but um okay you being in the tv world you're doing a lot of the stuff that people who watch this shit at home take for granted i guarantee that very few people who watch tv have ever like really given a lot of thought to like wow ryan secress is an amazing talent because he can really hold things together on a live level to which like that that is one of the hardest things when we think about how hard even doing a live podcast is absolutely but then like you know you've got a bunch of different guys to bounce off and everything like that like host an american i

know that shit must be insane and the traffic you're directing at them you know what i mean like okay go under a break in 10 seconds got to fill 10 seconds you got to make it look supernatural then you got to throw it to someone else and then there's a live band playing i mean what he's doing is being at you know like a traffic director which is so hard to do and look comfortable and he does it really well no matter how you feel about him he's just he's the one of the best in the business of doing it. And you're really good at it too. I don't know if I can't know that. First of all, Adam, thanks for having me.

No, it's a huge honor because I've always kind of had the sense that you were somewhat of an expert on music and rock and roll in particular. And then I come, somehow I end up on Wikipedia, I realize you've actually won, what was it, the Jeopardy Rock and Roll Trivia series three times in a row or something like that? I don't like to brag about it, but it's a three-time rock and roll Jeopardy champion.

And it's so crazy because I did that like in early 90s and stuff and you know sugar area came out and I was talking a couple your your your employees here they're really cool that I understand like the old sugar A kind of came almost like a hardcore background right you know we're more like a punk rock if you will type band so it was a heavier energy but so when fly hit it was like oh look at these little one-hit wonder like almost manufactured band and I understand that fly was the anomaly on the record that it was you know it was kind of a visual thing and so quick we're people will quick to point out. Thanks for playing Chigurei. You're going to be on the one hit wonder cruise ship

with Kaja Gugu and Chambalwamba. Enjoy it the rest of your life. And by the way, if that was it, that would have been amazing. Right. Because every band out there would die to be a one hit wonder. Totally. Once you get there, bro, you're like, oh, God, how do I get out of here? I got to keep this going. I'm so grateful to be here. No, but how do I have another hit? Yeah, okay. Because success is the second hardest thing in the world. Right. Staying there is the hardest thing. You know, you can get a little viral hit and a little thing, you know, you get a little pump here. You get little skinny from the nine here and then the next thing you know you have to stay there it's a long life right and if you're lucky enough to do this for a long time it's a blessing so when fly hit

people will quick to say they're not a real band blah blah blah and then i did those rock and roll jeopardy was the v h1 rock and roll jeopardy uh programs and uh jeff props the host of survivor was hosting it at the time and i just slaughter dude i just i just killed it you know some of the categories are like duran duran i'm like oh i'm going to murder this Albus Costello, you know, early hip hop, you know, name the three guys in treacherous tree. I'm like, I'm going to win it. Okay, but so you were always. Three, not tree, forget my veneers just.

You were always massively fascinated by music in general and rock and roll. I love music, Adam 22. And the fact, like, I had a will my way. I had a will my way to where I am today. You know, I'm a fan who said, how do I do that? That looks really fun. You know, by eighth grade, I figured out it wasn't going to be the point card for the Lakers. I figured that out that probably wasn't going to happen.

Yeah. At the same time I looked on MTV, there's David Lee Roth jumping off like a drum just going, Unchained! And I'm like, into that. That looks doable. But I can't sing, can't play guitar, and can't write a song. Small obstacles on the way to success in music. But I just learned everything about it because I wanted to. I loved music so much, whether it was punk rock, rockability, mod, early hip-hop. And I bought all the records. And as I went through all the trends, I didn't get rid of my records. I kept them. They mean a lot to me. I still have them. You know, So I retained all this useless knowledge, you know, and I never found a place to use it until rock and roll jeopardy came along.

And what I think it did most, Adam, was it let people know. This guy knows music. You could hate him the band, you know, whatever, but he's a fan and there's a little bit of substance there. And from a branding standpoint, you probably kind of needed that at the time because you had been having your credentials as a rock and roll guy kind of challenged for so many years, right? Without a doubt. And also like the punk rock, you know, credentials. which weren't very deep. It was by proxy.

You know, I was there. I was young enough to remember the cuckus nests in Orange County. Of course, CBGB is that whole thing. Like when circle jerks and black flag and the vandals were playing, we kind of open for them and things like that, but we're never like, I'm a punker committed to it because it was dangerous then.

Right. If you had blue hair, you're walking down Melrose, you were making a commitment in the early, late 70s, early 80s. All right, so I got two new things that we're doing. Number one, on Tuesdays, after we do the No Jumper show, we're going to be streaming, your music after that. So hit nojumper.com.

Check out the music promotions tab. Tap in if you want to get your songs played after the Tuesday show. And then also, if you want to do a performance video at the store on Melrose, we do have some availability. So hit up Josh at nojumber.com.

Yes, just hit the email and we'll get back to you. Thank you. I remember the narrative when I was, I feel like, okay, fly popped off in what year? 97.

97, holy shit. So I am 13 and I am a new metal fan who's quickly becoming like more of a hardcore hip-hop. Hip-hop was always like the through line for all of this. Yeah, for sure. But I'm kind of transitioning from new metal to like real punk and hardcore. Did new metal, new metal introduce you into punk rock and hardcore? For sure. Because when I'm like 13, I'm listening to Limbiscuit and corn on the radio. And then that kind of quickly turns into me trying to learn like the full history of punk and hardcore and metal and everything like that. So then that is crazy to think that. Fred Durs. Did you know Fred at all?

I don't know him, but I'm a huge fan. He would be amazing on here. I got him. I'll hook you up. He would love to do this. I'm sure he's watching this because he's, this is all about him. The fact that you inspired him or he inspired you, that's so big, dude. But I remember the narrative about Sugar Ray very early on amongst me and my friends who are also

like kind of in the process of like figuring out what the fuck is going on with heavy music being like, yeah, that fly song is whatever kind of weird, kind of commercial, whatever, but you got to listen to their other shit because they actually were like a little. legit band at that time. So even, you know, like, when I'm like 13, that's already kind of the narrative of like, yo, this is kind of like a sci-op. Like they're baiting you in with this hit song, but they're actually like a legit rock band. I wish we're smart enough to have that kind of like, you know, like orthodoxy behind it.

But it was really what happened was our first record, our first record was an album called Lemonade and Brownies. Okay. This is 1995. And who was the porn star on the cover? Not a porn star, but Nicole Eggert. Okay. Baywatch, Nicole Egger.

Charles in charge. And so we were younger, we were like, wow. I thought it was a porn star. I was giving Enema of the state. It was. But that was a more classy without the crowd and all. We looked at that and more it was like of a Playboy 50s sort of pinup type thing. Got it.

And Nicole Egert was best friends with my now wife. And she goes, yeah, sure, I'll be on the cover of your record, nude, doggy style. Right now everybody's Googling it. Check it out. It's totally worth seeing. It actually got more attention than the record did, but that was what we were trying to do. Right. Because we were in a sea of shit there, Adam, in the 90s.

I was telling some of your guys here on the floor that Nirvana is directly responsible for the success for Sugar Right. Okay. And I know you're laughing at me and people watching this are. In the early 90s, Nirvana came out of nowhere and exploded a revolution in rock and roll. Exploded. And kind of exed out a lot of the stuff that had came right before it. Right. And nobody knew this less than the labels that this was going to happen.

Now, the labels go, wait, guys that played three chords. They can't really play that well. And no respect to Nirvana, but the ethic was that like no solos, you know, no rippers and just no big pomposity in rock and roll. We're signing everybody. We're not going to miss this again. So in the wake of Nirvana, Sugar Ray got signed because we had a couple of S. Paul, some martial stacks, and we could barely play.

We fit the narrative. It was an easy time to get signed if you're in rock and roll band. And luckily, we got signed and they took the time to develop us, meaning we got to make a second record, which had Florida on it. But that first record, Adam, Lemonade and Brownies, took us around the world with bands like corn, the deaf tones, Monster Magnet, Sex Pistols. And don't think that I'm going to let you get off the hook without talking about Shrinky Dinks. Oh, you better not. You're kidding me?

So nothing on Lemonade and Brownies was the Shrinky Dinks material, like it was a full stop. Two songs. Two songs. We got signed. In the early 90s, you could lie. You could lie to labels. You could lie to people. There was no internet and social media.

And I know it's so hard to believe that now. Right. But we told Atlantic Records, so I know you had a relationship with. Did a little business with him, no. Who was your contact there? Jeff Vaughn. Jeff Vaughn. The primary guy, Mike Karen, as well.

Mike Karen was there when we were there, like on the Rock and Mole's side. Right, which I didn't really know when I was doing business there, like the true level of legendary status that Mike Karen. I mean, talking stuntable pilots, like legendary dude. You walk in his office and you see the Ed Shearing all over the wall. And you're like, oh, okay. So you don't just do drill wrappers. Exactly. Exactly. They're very smart. You dealt with them. They know what they're doing. The hire very smart people and the shadows that make sure they know what's going on the streets. Was Julie Greenwald still there when you were there or no? I'm not sure. I don't know if I made it that high up the ladder.

Yeah, I didn't either. I had a number one records. So, yeah, Atlantic took a shot at us. And the Shrinky Dinks was the name of the band. We got signed to Atlantic Records. We make a first record. Caboose. Caboose. That was the single. It was a single. God, thank you. Ridiculous record. I went and listened to it. I could not believe it. It's all over the place. It sounded kind of like a weird party ACDC type thing. That's what we were doing.

It was. Okay. We started a band to drink beer and play Judas Priest and run DMC songs around a cake. And not much has changed. You spent your whole life in the O.C. prior to rock fandom. I was born in Hartford, Connecticut. A little time out there in Simsbury and Avon, Connecticut, play a little hockey. I moved out here in 1976. So for all intents and purposes, I was raised in Southern California, in particular Newport Beach.

Because you do sort of fulfill some of the stereotypes of the OC guy. You seem relatively well adjusted, a good hang, down for some partying. Well, I appreciate all those things. I think they're spot on. The adjusted part would be, you know, I mean, it's really what people want from their rock stars at all times. No, but I've given them that too as well. People go real deep and stupid as you could just see any time in their own. internet. But growing up in Newport Beach, God, I'm going all over the place, which I apologize.

There's a million things I was interested in. Reggae music, you know, hip-hop, early hip-hop. I'm talking, you know, funky 4 plus one, you know, wild style and all that stuff. I was a break dancer. First white guy in Orange County that could do windmills. Very proud of that. In 1983, 84. So, you know, sometimes that gets lost in the Wikipedia, Mill Lou, if you will. And because of that, there's so many styles on that first record. But we got signed as the shrinking inks. Hasbro goes, oh, that's great. You want to be the shrinking inks?

Right. No problem. The licensing is a million dollars a year. And we get 15% of your net profit the rest of your life. Oh, my God. We said, you know what? We're going to call our 12 fans and let them know. We're changing our name.

I think it's going to be okay. We hadn't released yet, so it wasn't a problem. So we changed the Sugar Egg because I'm a huge boxer fan. Okay. And we found out that Sugar Ray never trademarked the name. Really? I do not know why. And then recently he reached out to me and said, can I get my trademark back?

I go, you can't get it back because that's our value. That's our commodity, as you know, about trademarks. And when you go on YouTube and search Sugar Ray documentary or whatever, you do kind of have to contend with the search results, including both. And it's an honor for me. So I told him you can use it any time. You have my word, we will never go after you. I encourage you to use Sugar Ray merchandise trademarks.

Never in a million years. And he goes, yeah, my guy's in a seven. He's just never registered. And I go, there was no. one more surprised than us when we saw that. So that's how Shrinkin became Sugar A. But same guys in the band, same two songs we had. We lied to Atlantic Records and said we have 500 songs. We're gigantic in San Diego. Because that time in the early 90s, there was a scene down in San Diego. Cargo Records with, you know, Blink 182 was bubbling under, a rocket from the Crip, drive like Jahoo,

Deadbolt, all these kind of cool bands because labels were looking for a scene after Seattle. They were looking for a scene. San Diego might have been the last one, at least in rock and roll before the internet came in and just made scenes just not just, you know, useless. So we kind of associated herself with the San Diego scene. We lied and prodded. Rob Peter to pay Paul.

A lot of chican shenanigans, Adam 22. We got signed Atlantic Records for a million dollars. Wow. Unheard of at the time. On two songs. Unheard of. Really? Unheard of at the time because the CEO, Doug Morris,

We made a video. We didn't make cassettes back then. That's what everybody did. They made cassettes. They went to an A&R guy. And if you were lucky, the guy would throw your tape in the garbage. You've got that close to him. Otherwise, there was 700 cassette desks on the desk.

There was just so much work. We made a video in a pizza box and sent it to everybody. And someone happened to see it. Open the pizza box. The video was there and the video was of caboose. The song that you said it's kind of like AC. Someone said it reminds him of turnstile. I go, please don't tell a turnstile that.

That's so insulting to them. I'd like to hear their thoughts. Yeah, me too. Me too. They're probably crying in a corner. But that video, the visual thing was something that Atlantic saw and said, we don't know about these songs, but there's something there. Let's try and develop them.

And thank God they did. And so there were two versions of Fly, like originally, because there's one with like a sample in the beginning and shit. And then there's like a more cleaned up version that's also on the same project, right? Was that because of the producer who was the dude from Sublime, who also did the Sublime self-titled? You are so good. That's why you're the best. You care about your interviews. Well, shout out to my friend Alex Legend, a male porn star, who also is like a huge rock fan. We were working out this morning and we were kind of working together to decipher some of this.

Well, whatever it's doing, how you vet these things, get these questions. It's amazing because you're not just waiting for the next question. I've interviewed people. So I know what it's like. You're listening. You're like the Joe Rogan of this alternative universe because you are passionate. The Joe Rogan of the J-Cats is what they say. Joe Rogan of the desasty of the desisty disciples. right i mean come on dude i'm in i'm in he's a limitless fountain of uh no job of a rapper so this is insane use every bit of vernacular i can pause the kind of ones um but you are because you listen it and you care i appreciate it's an absolute it's an absolute uh skill set that a lot of people don't have and i was wondering how you do it and make like george santo george santo's as interesting as fg butt up

wow but no but i was wondering how you do that and now i get it okay people in the eye you're like it's just You know, you've got a beautiful belies and lost in. It's an amazing thing. The overalls are killing it. Everything's happening. The overalls, for the record, first time wearing overall since I think I was five years old. My girl heard me compliment this dude, angry reactions who I interviewed. Yeah, yeah.

I mentioned his overalls. She went and bought me overalls because that's what a good wife does. She buys you the thing that you mentioned one time and thinks you actually want it. But I will say that I think that's why interviewing feels kind of like intense and like draining and exhausting as a person is because of the fact that I really want to be. so locked in that like 99% of my attention is going straight to you and only you know there's always this little like framework of thinking about the in fact that I forgot my food at home this morning or whatever but like really trying to just be in the zone and focus on the person yeah and you can see that and you also

match the person's energy like I'm a spas I'm off the I'm all over the place oh I love that that's great people like I'm cracked out half the time but you have a one of fun of way doing that man it's like and it's talking and if we everybody can have a podcast and everybody does but they don't blow up like this and and the team you're surrounding yourself with you are eliminating the middleman 22ster what you're doing is taking out the studio and taking out the record labels and what's been interesting for me to watch is someone who's the product of that like multi-media conglomerate feeding people Atlantic records is it's gone now so people find you and uh you've got to be talented to do it

anybody can just put up a mic and start talking but to really just make this thing crack this is the future you are doing it now. You know, I mean, you do, you're, it's probably hard to take, you know, compliments. You know, I'm not good at it, but dude. No, thank you so much. You're the absolute best in it. You're the best in it. So, thank you. Anyway, for me to be here, again, it is a total honor. So the first record comes out, doesn't do shit. But okay, that one record, though, how did you end up doing the other version of fly? Okay, well, that lemonade and brownies came out, didn't do much. We were about to die, and I'll get to the fly thing. And then we lobbed the most hell-marry lob of all time to Howard Stern.

Right. What are your Howard Stern feelings? I've heard you talk about him. My primary influence throughout like junior high and shit. He always listened to him all the fucking time. Especially on the East Coast. You could not not do that. Oh, yeah. Was there a station that brought you that where you were? I think that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Because I was listening to it all throughout junior high and shit. Because you got Boston stations from where you were. But it wasn't on WAAF. I think it was WBCN might have been the one that played him for a couple hours in the morning. That was it. That was it for sure. BCN. I haven't thought about them in 20 years.

Yeah. Huge Howard Stern fan. actually in the 90s, you know. And I don't know if you remember, but there was a band called the Meat Puppets. I'm not sure you've ever heard of them. They were kind of a 90s alternative band, one of Kurt Cobain's favorite bands. They were going to record one of Howard Stern's songs called Psychedelic Beat. From his band that he had before the radio. From his band called an electric comic book when he was eight.

Right. And they're like, they're non-songs. They're just garbage. And he goes, if any band out was there was smart, they record one of my songs and blah, blah, blah. And I in the like, you know, a broken clock is right twice a day, right? I had just one good idea that Dan and said, let's do that song because the meat puppets were kind of delaying, getting it out to them. We were on our final tour, dude. I cannot tell you how desperate it was.

The first record was out. We were on the fence whether they were going to do another one, even though we sold about, you know, we were moving some records. And you could tell there was something bubbling under, Rage Against the Machine was cracking, corn was cracking. And we were kind of in that world, in that genre. But in America, we were playing in front of three people, driving 12 hours, to play in front of two people. It was dark. It was gnarly. We knocked on a community college called Denver Community College, knocked on their studio and said, can we use your studio for an hour?

And is there an engineer that can do this for free? And the guy goes, yes. So we recorded psychedelic B, and we did a real thrashed out, punky version of it, put it in a FedEx box, sent it to New York to our manager Chip Quigley at the time, and forgot about it. This was, there was not, we didn't have a cell phone back then. So the information traveled super slowly. We finally make it to our, this was on a Wednesday, we finally make it to the club in, I think it was Wyoming on a Friday.

And we pull into the club super early. And the manager of the club comes running out about seven in the morning. Now, at these clubs, Adam, there was no one there until like 6 p.m. that night because they weren't doing business. For someone to even be there was insane. He goes, you guys, you got to call your manager right now. Howard Stern is playing psychedelic B nonstop. He's played it eight times. He wants you guys in the studio on Monday, blah, blah, blah.

We call our manager, and he goes, he was in New York. He goes, you're not going to believe it. He's dying over the song. He goes, Sugar Ray is the best band ever, blah, blah, blah. Wow. He goes, leave all your shit in Wyoming and get on a plane immediately. I go, we don't have any money. He goes, he puts down his credit card.

And so he goes, get here. So we went to Howard Stern, Psychedelic Bee. We performed on the show. And back then, you're talking 20 million listeners a day. Syndicated all across the country. Atlantic Records, which is in New York, all the big wings come down. Because somehow they got one of their bands on how, He wouldn't just take anybody because, you know, they were doing promotion.

If he didn't like you or want to be part of this, you were not going to get on there. So like the Stone Temple pilots couldn't get on Howard Stern, but somehow we did. So all the big weeks came on. We crushed it for once in our lives. Howard Stern loved it. We had a great interview. And they say you can make a second record. And that second record led to fly.

So that's the way we got to fly. That's insane. Do you still want to hear about the two versions of fly? Yes. Yes. I just, I think it's crazy that fly ended up being the song that was so. big that it was like you couldn't pay attention to anything else and completely drowned out the origin story that almost nobody remembers you for sure you're right that's a really good way it almost went delete

on the whole thing so we're almost to this day continually telling the story of what we're about because fly led to every morning someday when it's over and songs are similar to vain i got to tell you you know being in a band and touring in a van is really fun and great having a number one fucking song getting a platinum record from I'm in Erdogan, Atlantic Records, flying in a private jet. You've done this. It's really, really fun. I've never been on a private jet. There's no way, Adam.

One day. That's your choice, then. Have you been on a JSX flight? Yeah, that doesn't count. It's like 600 bucks. My last flight, last week to Vegas, was 1,200. They're starting to, like, figure it out now. It's getting super crowd.

It's all about demand, because if you try to go there during EDC, they're going to charge you two grand. It's a wrap. It's a rap. But I can't believe your bar a jet. I know a lot of people who do the private jet thing. I was just like, I'm not. I hate doing like the clout chasing.

Like you have a famous friend. You follow them around. You get on their private jet. And for me, I'm a cheap fuck. I'm not getting a private jet. I got you. I got you. Hell no.

My first class is great. I mean, such a vet. I'm still honored to be and stoked to travel that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trust me. After all these years. But like, I feel deeply uncomfortable about first class. Walking in?

I, I would feel like economy, I would rather save the thousand bucks. You don't fly. Sometimes. Okay. When you went to Italy. I'm not scared. You did not fly. No, I don't.

But I like to mix it in there still. Because it's a great way. It's like a thousand bucks. Come on. I know. But like, dude, you're paid. You deserve it. You earned it.

I don't like to think of it like that, though. Well, dude, come on, dude. If you walked in the plane, I saw you going back where the chocolate chip cookies aren't, I would be bummed out. And that is the fucked up part is that you do have people looking at you like, oh, you're secretly broke. That's what this illustrates. And I'm like, whatever, bro. It's all of the side.

If you worried about what people thought about the internet. If I worried about what people thought in the internet, there'd be 10 people waiting outside my front door to punch me in the face every time I walked out. 99.99% is all love. Like love I don't deserve. So thank God, social media is what it is, but you're right about that. The facade is kind of like, you know, everybody's, we're just human beings at the end of the day. Yeah. I'm just trying to stay regular. Well, you are regular, dude. As many ways as possible. I know I got overalls in a Gucci shirt. It's kind of embarrassing. Yeah. No, you're rocking. You're wearing it, dude. But okay, so you're telling me fly,

was there any songwriting assistance that came from people at Atlantic or anything? Because it kind of like sounds too good. It sounds like this. It sounds like, oh, you know, these guys had said mid-rap rock, if it was even that. You know, these guys are hanging on cold tails of corn, that weren't in the Adidas tracksuits, trying to be something they're not. We're like, I was rapping, but not, I mean, talking and then doing the loud choruses and they're, go, go, go, go, go, go, my God, and just kind of formulaic for sure. But what happened to us, Adam, is we toured for two years in that first record. Right. And the idea is, hopefully, is the more you tour, the better you get as musicians and songwriters. I love the Beach Boys. I'm going to

their documentary tonight. I'm going to walk in the red carpet with Mike Love and Brian Wilson and everybody. Another thing that's just led this joyous career of mine. I mean, I was on stage with Run DMC last week. I was in St. Vincent yesterday and I'll be doing the Beach Boys documentary. This is all this little sugar-a nonsense has brought me and I'm so grateful. I was just telling my girl that I grew up with the Beach Boys to the extent that I can't imagine that there was ever a time before the Beach Boys existed. Like there always had to be some boys at the beach. I feel the same way? And they just, a few

of them were just chosen to be the band. And rock and roll just came along. And then you get older and you actually realize like, oh, these are actual people. And there's like a real trajectory in this music. And some of the records are way different than the others. But for me, the Beach Boys is like, they have always existed. It's, they're religious, if I can say.

You know, you familiar with the song God Only Knows? I believe so. Go home and listen. Sounds familiar. And just tell me, you know, Mark was right. This is a religious experience. It's one of the best songs ever written in the world. And I'm grateful to be part of their camp, too.

They just had me out with them at Stagecoach. I mean, you know, Sugar Ray's never going near Coachella when you look at those lineups. But I got on Stagecoach, which is the closest as I'm ever going to be at Coachella. And that was phenomenal. And you're sitting there in Young Gravy's on the side. Lana Del Rey's on the side. You know, my daughter thinks I'm a hero because I got her a picture of Lana Del Rey. So the love for the Beach Boys kind of transcends music.

It kind of touches on all of our summer history, if you will. Right. You know, and they kind of trade on that. Because hanging out at the beach is a nice experience that we all share. I grew up on it. I grew up at Baywatch was my background. You know, I mean, I was laughing at brick. I go, I go to brick, baby.

I go, dude, I'm from the hard streets of Newport Beach. I didn't get a BMW until I was 18. Right. He goes, really? I got minus 16. I got, oh, that's why you're here or not. You're smart. How quick was that?

Wow. Like, you know, we might have got it in different ways. You know what I'm saying? My first wet dream was Baywatch inspired. Of course, me too. Carmen Elector. I was 35. I'm a late bloomer, dude.

It was actually right around the time I heard Sugar Ray for the first time. That's why a lot of these experiences kind of resonate in your brain. It's like intense things. You know what's so cool, dude, when you're part of people's like memories and histories because I know my mom's no longer here and I hear some songs that I used to sing with her. And people come up, I'm going to get emotional thinking about. And people come up to me and tell me these stories about the Sugar Ray songs, you know, and I'm like, it's not possible.

Right. That somehow we wrote songs that were that great that you have those memories. Man, I'm going to get a little emotional. Sorry, man. No. Let me get back to that, Sugar Ray. Writing a song, Sugar Ray. So if you're on the road foot, God damn, my crying on no jumper?

My the oldest man to cry on no jumper? Just you and FBG butter. Oh, man. Right. People's, dang of people cry here. Did Enes take a dump during his interview? He did. Yeah, he left for five minutes and took a shit.

And then you had to, like, fill that with like, what's happening? Am I leaving? Who's going to, oh, that was weird. They didn't edit that out? No, he left it in. What? But it was great that it was in. Oh, I know you don't edit.

I'm just kind of looking over here. But I don't want to get anybody in trouble, man. I thought it was very compelling. That's amazing. Because you were contemplating. Is he going to take a dump? Is this the first time? I think that's the first time I've ever seen anybody

get him to take a dunk. No, they should definitely have left my analysis of that part in. It's like the actual silence of him taking a shit. Like maybe you could hear some rumblings in the background. If they left that in, then I don't know. I think the dudes in the back were, bro, did you take a shit? And you get her a little bit of grumbling. It was a whole thing.

It was a great. It was beautiful. That's what makes New Jumper so amazing. Did they help you write that song? I'm getting into it. Okay. Do you mean, did they mean Atlantic Records? Yeah.

No. Oh. We got better as songwriters and as musicians by touring for two years. Got it. Because it was our job, Adam. You know, the idea is hopefully when you do something over and over again, that Maslow's 10,000 hours kind of thing. Or no, who's 10,000 hours?

That's a Malcolm Gladwell. Yeah, exactly. If you did something 10,000 hours, you become accomplished at it. So we got better as songwriters, loving the Beach Boys, loving the Beatles. And we're like, oh, what does this chord do? What does that chord do? So it made our songwriting a little bit better. Now, we're a huge band of timing and divine intervention.

Because at the same time, what I got by Sublime came out in 1996 when we were starting to write the new record. The most unbelievably influential records from my childhood and just in general. If you're going to college, you buy Dark Side of the Moon, Bob Marley's legend, and Sublime's first record. That's just what you do to get in your little stoner, first period. Let me get away. let me, you know, find great music.

Amazing record. But I know Sublime since the 80s. The chance of Sublime having a perfect piece of pop music was very, was a long shot. Because with Sublime back in day as a live entity, Adam, if they showed up to the gig, they'd do like a 90-minute dub jam, which is bump, bump, bum, boom, or be like kind of scot out or more hardcore. I didn't see a pop genius thing there. You know? And Brad, I'm so glad because he hooked up with David Kahn.

And David Kahn produced what I got in that record. Right. Paul Leary from the Butthole Surfers produced half of it. David Kahn did the other half. And he did what I got. And we heard that. And we were working on Fly. And Fly was about 85% there.

And by the way, when I first heard Fly, it was the biggest piece of shit I'd ever heard in my life. Because our drummer came up. with the chorus idea. And we were working in New York City. I'll never forget, it was dark. And, you know, I was wanting to make the record a little bit heavier because trying to follow in this deaf tones, corn lane, we were kind of having a little bit of success in. You know, let's kind of build on that. So the record we were building was heavier. That's why Florida's all heavy. And then flies just this one anomaly on the record. But this thing came out of nowhere, and my guitar

player played it for me. And he goes, look, this is just a little bit of a vibe thing. Just listen to it. I think there's something here. And I heard him play it. And it went like, Hi, I just want to fly. Put your arms around me, baby, and I'm like, I quit. I'm going home.

I quit the band. I got quit. This is not it. This is not in no way. And so I called my good friend McGee. He was like my best friend in the world. He's director. He directed all of our videos,

did all of Korns videos, Cypress Hills videos, Smashmouth videos in the 90s. If you saw video on MTV, chances are he was doing it back then. He also became a movie producer, director he does charlie's angels uh he did um some terminator salvation movies just a legit player in the uh in the uh industry so we were lucky to have him as the visual guy who did the original

video i told you got assigned so there was people kind of like nurturing their talents that really didn't even know what we're going to do that really happened in a perfect storm with the um how we got signed atlantic records anyway so we hear what i got and it's blowing up and we go oh my god this amazing who who did this who gave them this pop perfect nugget sound. You know, we, and then we reached out to David Kahn. And so David said, yeah, I might work with you guys. Let me hear some of the stuff.

We played two songs, and they were the harder stuff. I think one of them was RPM that someone said they liked in here earlier. I think was it was a bro back here. Donnie? No, no. No. It was the other dude. Yeah.

Pictures. Right. Yeah, yeah. He goes, dude. Yeah, he goes, I'm in a band. We play RPM or something. I go, that's so great. We had RPM and another song.

And we played it for him. He was like, nah. played for David Kahn. And the label had nothing to do with this. They weren't helping us right. We just happened to start becoming songwriters, which is great. And then David Kahn heard the beginnings of Fly. We started playing Fly, and we got to the part.

I go, my mother, God rest my soul. And he goes, stop. And we go, what? He goes, play that again. And he goes, my mother, God rest is so. And he goes, we can sell two million records off that note right there. Wow. And he goes, what was that note?

I'm not a singer. I don't know what that was. And so he goes, I want to work with you. Let's do this. And then he decided to produce this record called Floyd that ended up selling two million copies like he predicted off the song Fly. Now, we would not be here talking if it wasn't for David Kahn producing the record. I cannot tell you how valuable he was to the band and continued to be after. He produced every morning someday when it's over.

We just found our guy that we needed. We could bring a song at him 90% there. I can write a good song all day. A great song, there's got to be some magic there. And David Kahn was able to sprinkle that production magic in. And you'll see him as a songwriter. He'll like write 10, 15%, that really took it over that edge. So the label helped us find the guy that made us the best songwriters we could be.

Our label experience was amazing. They never tried to make us go in a different direction. We just found this little nugget. It was anomaly. We found a perfect partner in David Kana working with it. And that was it. So are you someone? Oh, and Super Kapp.

I can never undervalue. Supercat, the guy you were saying that was in the front, the dance hall artist Supercat. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. That was, you know, Spud you love him fly. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, come far away, you know, Super Cat. That was just a sample. That was like, you didn't know them or anything?

Huge fan of Supercats. He had a record called Don Dada, and he had a song called Getter Red Hot in the early 90s. Remember while you were too young? Shaggy and Shabar Ranks and Mad Cobra, Groot Flicks, Time to Have Sex. Remember that stuff? Like it was early 90s little reggae boom. This is true. Yeah.

Like dance hall boom happening. And Supercat was part of that. And he was the coolest guy. Supercat was the coolest, smoothest dude in the world. And I go, this guy's got the best sound. He sounded like Sean Paul. And Sean Paul says he's a huge influence Supercat. Just look him up.

The dandada of the world, the most amazing talent ever. So we're almost done with Fly. And I talked to, I said to David Kahn, our producer that we've discussed. And he was, I go, David, there's something missing here, man. We need like a dance hall infusion, like a Jamaican patois over this. Like someone like Super Cat. And he was very deadpaned, David Con. He looked at me, he said, pushing his glasses in, did you say Supercat?

I go, yeah, you probably don't know him. He goes, I signed Supercat, the Columbia Records. Give me one second. Beep, be, pop, boop, boop. Cat, how are you? Yeah, I know I got a song or I'm going to send it to you tonight. Now, I know I sent you a few stinkers. This one's a good one.

I promise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Bye. Boom. FedEx Cat that night. And we're all waiting by the phone. Oh, God.

Cat calls back because it's the best song I've heard in a long time. I'd be blessed to honor it. Now, you don't get that from Supercat. You know, he's a different kind of guy. He's not playing the game. The irony of Supercat, he's got two gigantic hits with pop artists from the States. Chris Cross and Sugar. Right. Which crisscross record?

Hold tight, whole tide. Everything is all right. Hold tight, whole time. You'll know it if you hear it. Was that the second crisscross album? Yes. The song was top ten. So it just kind of disappeared quickly. So Kat was extra like leery of doing something new. You know, he was like, I don't know, but he felt something in the song. So he came and there was no sample. He came, Adam, walked in and just goes, fired up. I don't need to just don't count me in.

And he said something from the top of the. bottom all the way down that that record from he fills in every blank and uh david con kind of edited it to fit in the song to make it more like pop friendly but he blessed us with this amazing perfect just incredible talent and that's what we add and what became um supercat that's what became fly and what happened was adam that fly became so big that they took out some parts because some AC radio wouldn't add it because it was too urban, you know, and only urban parts, one of the long version of Supercat. We were added to BET.

Right. Sugar A was on rotation on BET. So white rock and roll band in the mid-nights. It was insane how big that band was, that song was. So there was something there. So how did you, because it feels like you guys kind of blew up like instantaneously around that time. Overnight.

How was that for you? How did you adapt to it? because I feel like some people have sort of a conflicted attitude about fame. It feels like you kind of just went full throttle. Like you were loving it. I wanted it. Yeah. You know,

I wasn't the guy then that was like looking at my shoes going, my flannel's pretty cool and I'm just kind of angry. I don't care, low energy. I hate what I'm doing. I'm like, bring it all on. I am so stoked. This is my dream coming true. Mind you,

minimal talent, can't really play. Figured out to write a song. But like, what am I doing here? Also, look at your fucking personality. Like, You're a very high energy, energetic guy.

Like, you know, I- But how does that translate to a hit song? Well, I think it translates to being the kind of person who's going to have a good attitude about fame. Maybe, maybe that's good. You know, maybe too good because I embraced it. And the thing about fame, you don't figure out fame. Fame figures out how it wants to play you, meaning this.

All of a sudden, you know, hey, I'm a fame guy, and I'm a big and I'm smart. It brings out and manifests the worst parts of your personality, because you start feeling yourself. How could you not? Right. You know, you're the greatest, you know, number one and, like, girls are throwing themselves at you. And all of a sudden, like, Amid Erdogan, who started Atlantic Records, is on the phone with me,

bro. You know, it goes, hold on. I've got to talk to, Mariah Carey real quickly. I mean, all these incredible things. And you're up there in rarefied era that I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to be here long. I know the talent of me and I know the talent of my band. So I'm going to enjoy every fucking moment of this.

Because I don't know how long this can last. Because I was a little older, Adam, when this hit. I was 27 years old, mind you. Right. And this is our second record and most likely our last shot. When I see rappers blowing up at like 18, that's when you really can kind of count on them becoming a fucking asshole who's going to be mean as shit to everybody who works for them

and they're not going to have a good attitude, but the fans and shit. But if you can make it to like 25, 26, 27, et cetera, before you kind of hit upon what's going to make you successful, there's a way higher chance that you're going to be well adjusted to it. There's no doubt about it. Because they say your brain's not in development here at 25. Oh, yeah.

You know, so you really don't have to even like to deal with people. Never mind throwing a big success bomb in there. We're like, everything. And I've got money. And now I'm like, oh, Gucci. And then I'm like, I'm not a Gucci. I don't want to change with the seasons every year. Gucci.

I'll go back to my dickies. You know what I mean? And my wife respectors. You know, I don't need any of stuff. Calling it that is amazing. It's keeping a walk for the audience. I don't want to get a message. But you know what I mean?

And then you figure out who you are with money. Oh, I need the rims. I need a car. And that was fun. I did that for a taste. and that was cool and I don't need that. I'm kind of a Tahoe dude. I'm low-key.

You know, these frosted tips are enough to get me a good tail. You're married to that for life? You know, I went away for it for a while, you know, and then I'm completely gray. I'm beyond gray. I'm Anderson Cooper gray. Right. And my wife goes, it's, that's not it for me, you know, about 10 years. She goes, that's not it.

And I go, but honey, this is, you know, we love it. That's a moneymaker. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, it keeps you in the arena. Well, for sure, it does. I'm not going to take myself out. I'm not going to give my uniform back willingly when there's things I can do. new, you know. So the frosted tips kind of became my like my little Rod Stewart thing.

And so about 10 years ago, I go, I'm going to embrace these things. When frosted tips was at its, not that it's never at a highest peak again, but it was at a low peak for a while. It takes a while. It takes a while. It takes a while. You know what I'm saying? When things become ironic again and cool, it takes a while. I say we're about two or three years from a sugar A shirt being in urban outfitters. You know what I mean? We're almost back to that. We're like, we're not even- You guys are almost Metallica. Yeah, we're almost like not offensive anymore. Right.

So I went, well, people like the frosted tips. And it's kind of a part of the whole thing. You become Americana at a certain point. A little bit. If you're lucky enough. You got a tramp stamp? I do. Do you really?

I'm so bummed, dude. I just was thinking like, tramp stamps and frozen tips got to go together. Oh my God. You brought that. And here's the thing. I have a close friend who has a Wu-Tang symbol as a tramp stamp. That's cool. Is it?

I don't know. I wouldn't even get. He's a big Trump guy now, too. Well, that that's a weird kind of dichotomy there, bro. That's a crazy dichotomy. Who's the friend? Can I be some ball? Catfish.

Catfish. Zach Yankish. So I'll show it to. Can I show you? Sure. Yeah. I don't even see it because I, Mr. Cartoon got the, Mr. He did it?

He did my whole bad. No, he didn't see the MC? Yeah, no, that's fire. What's the MC? Oh, just McGrath. It's real fire. Oh, okay. It's even, I got the worst for MPS yet, but it's not even like a unicorn or something.

It's my last name. Right. And then I went, oh, I can't have that. Wow. But you have a Mr. Cartoon back piece is a very cultural statement right there. Well, this is kind of what it brought me here to no jumper. Before or after the M&M explosion that Mr. Cartoon went through in his life. I kind of comforted at Esteban, Oriel.

I had both of them on the practice years ago. You know, I know this. And the Southern California culture is something I've been obsessed with, especially the gang culture, the prison culture, the hip-hop culture, because it's the antithesis of who I am, the tough guy fighting culture. the whack 100 beats up stitches type shit but I'm just you know I'm just I'm just the white boy dude what's guy white boy guy that beat the other guys up in the alley that that's I think he's a Crip or a blood white Crip no he's named snow or something now do you yeah you got him on is it Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah she got on his deep back with

I'm not people like fighting and like because I am the biggest of all time. Right. As you saw by the Sugar Gay video. The biggest, I can't even be, I make the shittiest tough guy. Hey, dude, smell my fart. Like, I didn't know how to fight or even, like, talk tough. At what point did that occur, the Sugar Gay incident?

Like, between the first and the second album, or was it later on? This was, this was, this was like, well, I guess it was. It was after the second record. This was late 90s. Now, Sugar A now is in the top tier. Right. We're having a cup of coffee with the A-listers. I'm on the cover of Rolling Stone.

Right. I mean, I don't think there's a bigger pinnacle in music. Well, it's not just that the band is big. It's like you yourself are like all of a sudden this like real star heart throb, etc. Right? Dude, I had, look, father time is undefeated as we all know. But in the 90s, I had a good run of that little heart throbby throb, you know, People magazine's sexiest rocker.

I don't want to brag. I'm sure if you weren't married, you could still pull some solid tang. But I mean, like Donald Trump was a fucking superstar, like looks wise. Like girls thought he was sexiest 40 years ago. Really? I think so. Yeah, maybe. Maybe so.

But he's always been a billionaire, so you're right. That makes you, that makes you Brad Pitt. You know what I'm saying? But I had a good moment, which is great. But you can't hang your hat on that shit. And also that stuff's very, there's a huge backlash when that stuff starts happening. And you're in the rock and roll world, bro. Right.

You're like, oh, like, you look a sexy dude, you know. And, but no one made more fun of that than me. I always say no one makes fun of the band better than me. Nobody. You can try all you want. But, you know, we record, we called our record 14 minutes and 59 seconds. Right. as a direct, you know, shot at the fact that we were a one-hit wonder.

Right. Because Andy Warhol had a saying that everybody in the future will be famous for 15 minutes. Right. So we called our record 14 minutes, 59 seconds, saying we have one last second left. And it's this record, which ended up going $3 million, sold more than the rest. Right. Because of luck anyway. You said that Sugar Ray was able to become successful like that because you guys weren't taking yourself serious at all.

You were just having fun. And you got to think this is the early days of like rap and metal. and rock music and like the dance hall Jamaican shit that you're talking about and everything, all this stuff being kind of tossed together in the pot. This is kind of like a new concept around this time. Like it was just a lot of this stuff was being done for the first time. A lot of people look back on Limp Biscuit and don't have the most fond memory of it. But it's like this was innovation.

Like this shit wasn't really being mixed together at this point. You're entirely correct, Adam. And by the Limp Biscuit's having a moment again. Right. And I denied being a Limp Biscuit fan for like 10 years before I was like, okay, fuck. Like you can't. You can't resent an era of music that you actually genuinely loved. Like, however much you loved it in that moment, you can't ever get away from that.

That's one important thing to know about life. And you know why? Because you've got memories and emotions of times you love when you were innocent. How could that be ever be wrong? And I told you, it takes a while for the stink of a decade to go away. Limbiscuit experience kind of like we did a little bit. But now they're the biggest thing in the festivals. They rip it down.

They're doing gigantic 60,000 stadiums in Europe. I mean, go look at them recently. Fred comes out and makes fun of himself like a cowboy outfit, and then break stuff still slaps harder than any song you've ever heard in your life. And they'll play Killing in the Name of by Rage Against the Machine. Imagine Limp Biscuit playing that. So they're just having a moment again. There is no shame and loving Limp Biscuit again. And you never should in the first place.

Right. But you said something very profound. The 90s was a decade when all the labels and genres, the walls came down. Perry Farrell ushered in the Lollapalooza Age. where, you know, Henry Rollins band was playing with the boredoms, was playing with body count, iced heaps band, and Jane's Addiction, and the Wu-Tang Clan was playing with everybody. And then on pop radio, you're coming up next, Mariah Carey, Blank 182, Sugar Ray,

and Tank, you know what I'm saying? So it just, all the walls came down, and it was new for all of us to be hearing things at once. So all these new sounds are being created. Technology was coming along. It was the perfect storm of all of us to love everything at once. And the MTV was the visual deliverance of all that, you know? So how did you end up landing on such another giant hit with every day? Like on the second album, it's like, because watching your career trajectory,

it's kind of like this reminder of like how much back in the day used to be about just having one big song. And you guys would put out three albums and each one had a giant fucking song. And it did not really matter what the other fucking 12 songs were because that one hit, It just supported the entire fucking business. How much, how difficult was it to land on another song that was going to be just as big, especially given that, you know, the, like the pressure was on and the standard was so high. You know, you find yourself selling some records. All of a sudden, you're getting calls from the CFO of Atlantic Records going,

hey, we got a fourth quarter record here. And you're feeling the business part of it, you know, which was super, super heavy. So we really, really felt that, that pressure. But again, we're a band that's always led with humor. You know, we were finding our songwriting style. You know, it's interesting, like athletes, songwriting game, it's a young man's game. Not a lot of folks are over 50 writing a drill hits right now. You know what I'm saying?

I mean, have you? Think about it. Not a lot of people who are 50 writing pop songs that are making the charts. It's a young man's game. You age out of it. Paul McCartney, one of the best songwriters of the world. The last time you like the Paul McCartney song. But how do you pride yourself as a songwriter?

Is that part of the value proposition? because you don't have a choice but you personally like do you do do where do you rank yourself as a songwriter oh i think that's not really your strength it's not a strength but i can write great pieces of songs okay nobody in my band could ever write a song by themselves worth a right but there was we wrote pieces together we found that you're the verse guy you're the chorus guy you're the guy that brings in the beautiful guitar licks you know our guitar player wrote some of the most iconic licks of the nineties rodney rock and ronnie sheperry shout out to rodney i mean those are iconic you hear the little bit like you hear the

immediately right away and you know exactly where they you know where you were where they are we really have that kind of effect so i'm so fascinated by that concept that songwriting is just this inherent ability that some of the greats don't have and don't pretend to have but then some people just just have that in their blood because i went on a deep dive into george michael and wham recently because i heard you mention mention wamp with george santo's yeah yeah and the fact that he's not a wham fan right so how can he be gay he's missing out a lot of the gay experience I totally agree. But George Michael, it was such a... Was that the best documentary you've ever seen?

One of the greatest things I've ever seen in my life. I was so compelled because they have so much footage. So sick. Like the mom had so much footage of it. If you're not a Wham fan and you're just like humanity? Yeah. Watch a documentary. What really struck me was like you're watching it.

You're seeing George Michael as a songwriter. And then you see Elton John talking about how he's the songwriter that Elton John wishes that he could be. And you're kind of like, oh, fuck. Like, this dude's a super. Like he's got that thing in him that almost nobody has. No. Yeah.

And it's the Michael Jordan. Yeah. It's the, it's the Tiger Woods. It's the George, you know, it's not everybody can have it. There are people like me that can kind of fake it and finesse your way. Be smart enough to surround yourself with smart people, somehow get in there and just, and just somehow get a hit. There's people like that.

But I never really thought about what you're saying about how that shit does tend to tail off that like 40, 50, sorry. Yeah. You let me tag it out. I was going to get through that. I promise. We're both operating with a little too much energy. No, no. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just really grateful to be here. So I'm trying to get it all out because I'm just, I love the spot. Anyway, man, thank you.

We found our moment as songwriters. We all found it together. And then we said, fly was great. Let's keep this vein going. And at the time, having like a hip-hop foundation to, like, acoustic songs, it was kind of new. Right. Everybody in the mother's on it now. Everybody. But Sublime kind of showed everybody how to do. do it certainly showed us how to do it and we had a DJ in the band a DJ homicide yes was really good friends with AM and Ben Baller and all all these guys uh so we were lucky enough to have

him that really was could pull from the crates and had these he had a real pop sensibility to thank god he wasn't trying to out finesse the latest DJs look at this you know scat man willie record i found that no one cares about from Alabama you know he wanted to give us like something like from the das band or zap band that had that pop sort of foundation and we just we found upon a lane and a time where our songs we couldn't miss for a second we had every morning which was bigger than fly and was the a effortless or would that take a shill out of work I don't write when I'm in the studio okay I can't write songs with 20 guys staring at me breathing in the same

air shirts off no air conditioning it's just not very inspiring for me when I'm riding in my car and I'm riding on like I say you know my bike or something like I'm like, oh, oh, taking a shower, I'm working out. I bet when you're working out, you're doing that cardio and you're getting that cardio peak where like the puzzle of your life starts going into your visual puzzle. Oh, yeah. Oh, let me call him, doom, boom. That's what happens with songwriting.

And so we were just firing on all cylinders. And we had David Kahn to go, no, that sucks. Yes, that is good. No, that's not very good. And so we just, we just really hit on something. And with that, a lot of people started chasing that. Everybody started chasing David Kahn to go produce them because they're like, If you could get Sugaray a hit, any of us could have a hit.

How do those morons get a hit? You know what I mean? Were you resentful of that attitude? Not at all. Because you guys got slammed by the press a lot. A lot of music critics would shit on you guys. I would slam on us. Spin called you the OC's least likely to succeed.

Which is such a compliment. Do you know how hard to succeed with no success? And I should be an inspiration. Not someone a clown. Like there's people out there watching right now. They're like, yeah, I bought some equipment. and I'm kind of like using my garage band and I want to like do it go for it and there's no magic to do it there's no magic to songwriting like I watch you see the Beatles documentary in Apple plus I don't know if you're a

big fan or not no I'm a huge fan yeah me too it's worth the six hours they fall into like the beach boys category for me which it's like impossible it's like the Bible it's impossible for me to imagine a world without the Beatles it permeated my whole childhood so much beyond music like just these you know it just Sinatra the Beatles Ford motor car You know, like, you can't imagine a world without them. Yesterday was playing while my kid was being born. Well, then there you go. So, I mean, there you go.

If it wasn't already cemented into your fucking life, then there you go again. How beautiful is that? Oh, yeah. And the slumings cry anyway. You don't need any reason to cry, listen into that fucking song when your kids being born, yeah. What a magical playlist choice. 22 is right there. Perfect.

They probably have a playlist of extremely meaningful songs that impact people deeply to play during the C-section. Absolutely. Absolutely. Hopefully. Because they can't all be, isn't she line? Yeah, because like 90% of recorded music would be totally inappropriate for the baby being born, right? Yeah. Totally, bro. Hits from the bomb.

Oh, totally, man. Oh, God, dick. Slim Jesus is on? You're like, oh, God, is that? If they play King Yellow while my kids get born, I'm asking for money back. Oh, my God. Ced of Sinai. Give me out of here.

Wow. But you got to say King Yellow, man. Oh, of course you know everybody I've ever thought to. But it's compelling. You know, it's like, listen to Ben Baller. Ben Baller is full of shit. Really? I was there.

What parts? The first 15 years of his life. Really? Yes, he was like the second string middle linebacker, and he had a little bit of priority records there, and he was giving out free records, and he was a DJ at clubs when I met Ben Baller. Okay. He wasn't, he wasn't like mediating between Tupac and Biggie and making sure the shit

wouldn't go down and saving the East Coast. Ben's a hustler and a great guy. He's become extreme. superstar guy he is now for sure not taking it but but his early history he's got a little bit of vanilla ice's biography you know into it there's a little bit of finessing and uh and and but i never let the truth get in the way of a good story you get to do that as years ago by of course your story can be a lot more blurry yeah yeah you know but he's extremely compelling you know and just like king yellow's on your podcast but you make everybody compelling but anyway um so getting back to

what i forgot we were talking about right I mean, at some point, I was kind of trying to transition into where exactly you were at in your life during the sugar gay incident. Because it would appear watching that video that you were a party and a little too hard at one point. Oh, they're not to do at one point. I mean, listen, dude, we started this band to have fun. I told you, we played parties and it was a fun thing. It was never a business or professional thing. But when you get in the professional world, you better start changing your attitude towards things.

You want to stay there. And I wanted to stay there for a little bit, you know, but I still like the party, too. I'm an Irishman and like my Jameson. I got the only job you show up to work, and there's three cases of beer, bottle of Jameson, Crown Royale. What do you need? Yeah. And I don't want to be in hospitable.

You know, I want to make sure that people feel good about everything. And you know what I love about that clip? I don't throw a party. I am throwing a party when we play. Right. And, you know, when you're doing some of these podcasts, did you guys are drinking and smoking and having fun? Yeah.

I mean, it's 11 a.m. I'm not going to, you know, I heard you. Somebody tried to give me drug at 11 a day. Was it got a tea? What's his name? I already can't remember who it was. Dude and the dude, they were all tapping. and they blessed in the bottle. I never saw that.

Oh, yeah. Anyway. It was gold toes and bands in them? No, it was another one after that. Yeah. Remo was here. I already can't remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway, so they were blessing balls. But, no, but Ben's legit. I love Ben, an old friend of mine. He was really good friends with their DJ. So that's how I know him so well. You know, but he's like, Ben, 2006 to 9, all legit. But there's a little bit of finessing in that. But everybody, you know, tells us a different story like that.

Okay. The sugar-gated. I look forward to Ben Baller reacting to that. But, yeah. Ben, I love you. You know that, dude. We're all folks now. Before you even say it, though, like, the thing I love about that is that now you see

celebrities behaving in a very specific manner, which is that basically we could go travel down Hollywood Boulevard tonight and you're not going to find any famous fucking people getting drunk in the bar. At that time, that was still completely normalized so that the, like, a lot of celebrities hadn't really like got used to what it was going to be like to be a celebrity because social media didn't really exist at that time. The internet didn't exist. Yeah.

They remind social media. The internet did not exist when that sugar gay, by way, sugar gay all day. Because and that was one of the things I think made it go so viral over the last couple years is because I do not remember that shit at all. So to see like a controversy that you do not remember at all? So it wasn't even in the media at all at the time or? Well, here's the thing. That was, Madonna was throwing a party that night.

Okay. So it was like a pre-Oscar or pre-Grammy party. Just to let you know what I was running around with back then. What was up there? You know, and that's why all these, you know, PDD. I feel like you're still kind of up there. Oh, you know. You can be hang out with Madonna right now, right?

Nah. I've seen some people hanging out with Madonna that I didn't think were that cool. Well, thank you for that. Not on. I'm not. I'm not like, now. I'm the one that proves that. You know what I'm saying?

But, you know, but the whole, like, you know, like the ditty parties and all the alumni, I never saw that. I never saw that. I was caught. And I was parting up there. And I guess it wasn't cool enough to be invited or, thank God it wasn't. But my level of fame now was, oh, there's dude. How you doing?

You know, got you a good table. It's a very. comfortable level of fame. I have to walk around with security or anything that. You know, it got to be a little bit of that in the late 90s. And I hated that dude. I'm a guy that goes to 7-11 and gets a coffee. What's up, bro? I don't like any of that shit, you know. So it's become a very comfortable level of fame. You just, oh, there's dude. And that's, that's, that's great. But then it was big. And so Madonna was having this party on Beverly. It was an Atlantic restaurant. I forget on Beverly Boulevard. And now I'm new to the fame game.

And as I'm walking in, there's a bunch of like guys with gigantic. video cameras the kind you had on your shoulders there was a big light on them and a bunch of creepy guys would hang around these video guys it was like paparazzi before paparazzi but they're all like kind of weird and creepy not all of them but kind of autograph seekers and especially with madonna there's value with her pictures and all that so she throws a party and you know you know madonna gets down a lot of gay kind you know gay folk hanging out um fun people and i've got tons of gay friends i love gay people i'm down with the community always have been i mean this is what's getting to what i'm talking about in that video.

Right. So when I was walking in the vitriol and the anger that's being spewed at some of my friends walking in there. Oh, so there's already that vibe going on, which, okay, that's a context that nobody gets when they see that clip. And by the way, when I tell people that it's a bums them out, like, oh, you mean there's sort of like a morality clause? Oh, I thought it was just you being an asshole.

And by the way, let me qualify this. I reacted like the biggest drunken moron, no doubt. Right. Not proud of it. I would take away if I could. But I stand on witness. What was happened? What I was doing, what I was sticking up for that night.

So I'm in there and I'm throwing them back, having some drinks, you know, probably doing other things of other people. Probably shouldn't do it out there in Los Angeles, California. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I'm coming out and Madonna goes, Mark, you walk me to my car. Now I'm like, oh, sure, like not even knowing what that meant or what it could mean. So I'm walking out. I forget about the bozos out front completely because I'm new to this world.

I'm brand new. no one goes to the clubs I'd go to and, you know, I'm pounding drinks and I'm fun with my friends. And so I walk around to the thing and flashlights, boblights and hey, Madonna, is that your new boyfriend? What happened to Ricky Martin? I remember someone saying that, which is irony all these years later because Ricky wasn't out then. You know what I mean? And so I walk into the car. I gave a little peck on the cheek and I'm feeling myself. I'm like, oh, I'm hanging with Madonna. You know, Mark McGrath, Frost of Tips, everybody's in. Right? It's a gigantic party. You're in your ego era. Beyond.

By the way, that just feeds it, man. And if you got a couple drinks in you, the monster's coming out and all that. So I shut the door. I, you know, I start backing up traffic. You know, come on, make a whole gentleman. You know, I'm doing all that bullshit. And so she backs up, she goes away. And when she's gone, smoke of her car, gone.

I remember, you fucking F word and this, that, and sugar gay. And I'm like, what? And then like, I just blacked out. I go, you, you, so who said that? You know, and me being the tough guy I am. Right. I found the smallest guy I could in the pack. I just got re in his ass and goes, you,

you could smell my farts and I'll fuck your face and you'll never make it in this town. I think I was right about that one. And so I just did that and blacked out and that was it. And then like, I'm smart not never to throw a pint. Then I'm like, you know, I'm not a tough guy. I don't have a fight. Because, okay, the context of the video makes it seem like that dude just as a lone voice just said replaced Ray with gay and that that alone.

was enough to warrant this reaction, which that idea is way funnier and way like more whimsical. Way whimsical. To the public. It's not funny the way I tell it. What happened? And like some of the gay folks that were out front that they were yelling at were kind of like, you know, intimidated and went back in. So I was just trying to like, you know, use a little grenade, like just kind of get people away.

If you're the lone heterosexual, you got to stand up for your gay brothers who might not necessarily want to get their hands dirty. All day. All day. And like, obviously I don't know how to get my hands dirty, but I've said, I'm just going to try and just run a little shield here. you know so that was what kind of went down uh to me it was just another night but i forgot it was a madonna party there was a million people filming it and stuff like that so what it did it had a little

bit of run at the entertainment news uh entertainment uh tonight uh extra ironically which i came to host a couple years later um uh and access hollywood it was on it says you know mark begrath gets a little scuffle but they couldn't show anything because it was so you know it's it's it was uh network tv so It was that, had a little run, embarrassing, gone forever. I'm like, ah, that was my little thing. No one's ever going to think about again. Ten years later, the internet comes along, and it's a new thing every year.

And the kids love it. And, you know, my kids now, Liden, shout out to Liden, Liden, Liden loves a jumper, 14 years old. We went to an awful lot of cough syrup, and Desto came out, and was treating me like such a hero, dude. Oh, that's awesome.

My son started recalibrating, like, dude, you know people. I can't, Desto, shout out, man. That's dope, because I would not have necessarily assume that Desto Dubb would know about you just because I don't feel like he's been exposed to a whole lot of white people's shit throughout his life. So that's awesome. How do you think I felt? Frosted tips walking in there with my son who's got frosty tips too? And they were so kind. They gave us free. They just like they made me look like, I'm getting

emotional. Think about Desto Dub now. I'm crying again. It was amazing. So great man. So that that's so that that was kind of happened. That was over. And but now it has new life on the internet. I get it's got 20 million views. I get it. I'm acting like a moron. But just please laugh at me, clown me. Just watch the gay shit. You know what I'm saying? Because me, just, you know, that to me, the homophobia is just a real bummer to me and always has been. Right. You know, I think you feel that same way too. I just have a deep, well, who gives a fuck? You know what I mean? Like, I'm all for some lighthearted gay jokes and shit. You and Wack, have a wonderful play like that. I do it too. As far as anyone like actually using somebody's

sexuality to try to make them feel like less of a person, that's something I'm 100% opposed to. Me too. And that's kind of, you know, it looks like I'm trying to like rewrite, but that that's what happened to me there. And you can believe whatever you want, you know, you'd never let the truth get the way of a good story. I always say. But that's kind of what that went down. And so I stand by what I stood up for, but it wasn't the best look for me. How did you end up patching it up with Cody Co? Because he's kind of like the person that drew the most attention to it. That's the funny thing. Because I laugh at it too. I go, bro, you killed me on that, dude. I was the best breakdown. on that video I've ever seen. You know, shout out to you, my friend. You know what I mean? And he hit me away. I thought you'd be mad at that. I go, how can't be mad?

It's a funny. It's funnier and hell. I've been laughing myself my whole career. I understand that that's funny. It's me. It's embarrassing. You know what I mean? I regret it, but it's what it is.

It's going to be this thing that doesn't go away. Right. You know, it's David Heslaw of eating a cheeseburger wasted, you know? Because even if it goes, like, if we don't hear about it for five years, that just increases its power. Without a doubt. So you're welcome. Like the day that you are no longer with us.

It'll be the day that that video gets the most views. And if you don't play it at him, I'll be so bummed at you. You're heard it right here. But, you know, it's interesting. It's had a weird thing where it's kind of kept me around. And not to say that all press is good press, but there is a little bit to that, you know. There's a little bit of a troll element to this whole life. And I hear you talk about a lot of people.

Hassan talked about it. I mean, you know, there's a lot of that. I don't want to be part of it and I wasn't trying to be. This is a weird, like, me, again, going viral for reasons that are totally against why I should be going viral. But, you know, so my kids now are seeing it. And, you know, that's a bit regretful, like having your son, seeing your dad act like a moron. But it's a teaching moment. You know what I'm saying, dude.

But, you know, it took me a while to learn the lesson. It wasn't like I still wasn't walking out of clubs drunk for a next 10, 15 years. I mean, if you were WAC 100, it would probably be a little bit harder to explain the multiple videos you beating the shit out of people, which, I mean, I mean, I wouldn't have too hard of a time explaining that to my kid either. Hey, there's bad guys. Sometimes people act bad. You got to beat them up. Sometimes you got to scream in their fucking face too. Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. But that was clearly like, you know, I'm out of my tree and it's a, you know, moron thing. But my, you know, my kids are cool learning moment, you know? When was last time you were in a fight? Like you punched the dude. I actually think it was 2018. That's not that long ago. I mean, I guess, yeah, it feels like a fucking lifetime. Yeah, I'm sure it does. Where, give me the scenario.

Anyway, that was a sugar gay wrap-up. So I if you have any more. And, and, but, but, but, but, I don't know, if you have any more. And, and. And, by the way, everybody comments sugar gay when things, I get it. My profile says sugar gay all day. I get it. It's funny. So no worries about it. And I take it lightheartedly, you know, but just watch out for LGBTQ plus brothers and sisters. Right, because now they have a whole campaign ready for you at any given moment.

They've got a dossier of information for everyone on earth ready to throw them under the bus. I respect it. I do too. They should have that. It's kind of the game that everybody's playing now. Not for sure. Why not? Okay.

So the band is like riding this hive. when does it start to feel like, oh, shit, this is petering off. And had you thought about what you might be doing after the band's, you know, heyday in the lead-up to this? Or was it kind of like this abrupt surprise of like, oh, we're sort of falling by the wayside. And there's all these new bands that people are excited about and we don't necessarily fit into this. You kind of fall in a vacuum when you're in your success mode. You know, you're in a tube.

You're talking Atlantic Records. And there wasn't a lot of internet and stuff like that. So immediate commentary and feedback wasn't available. So not that you're not that. last to know because I'm super self-aware but I was in this bubble I'm like oh this is so much fun I don't want to go away and and the saddest thing is when your dream comes true when you see it start to slip away like I could imagine an athlete you know going oh my fastball isn't 95 miles per hour anymore I got maybe six more months left it's very sad I always say you know people always say it's sad to

see musicians growing old oh you're getting fat you're losing your hair but I promise you Michael Jordan would be playing tonight in the NBA if you could right it's your dream yeah we get to grow old and it's sad, but don't worry about us because we're doing something about we love. Right. You know, so I saw it coming when the strokes and Interpol and that lo-fi, cool New York, which probably was the last scene, you know, the LCD sound systems were coming out. And I'm like, ooh, the landscape is changing. The third eye blinds, the smash mouse, ever clears the world, we're starting to fall out of favor of Turner Radio, starting to fall out of pop a little bit. you know, the hip, the jaw rule world was really starting to take over the pop landscape.

So you could see it in front of you. And you just start breeding your last gas. And you start chasing your tail. You're calling Farrell and the Neptune's going, you got anything? You got anything for me? You know, you're trying to stay. Let's, we need something new. And that actually happened, believe it or not.

Have they sent you anything? Oh, they sent us something. It's a great story. We show up to the record plant in L.A. And Farrell's got five rooms working. And he was with Chad at the time. They were the Neptunes, but it was Farrell's show. Okay.

I think they were suing each other around something, something crazy. Oh, really? Hey, forgive me if they're not, but kind of passing off bad information. I don't even know about that. I think there's a little bit of legality is going on, but forgive me if I'm wrong. Okay. So he's working on five studio studios. There's Mariah's over here, you know, Mystical's over here and Snoops over here.

And the little sugar A's over in this corner and a little bit of a smaller studio than everybody else. Right? Ours wasn't catered. And Farrell comes in, and goes, I got a song for you. And I'm like, yeah, that's great. But Farrell, we want to write a song from the ground up, man. I think us and Sugar Ray and you, man. And he just signed Supercat.

That's the irony. He just signed Supercat, so he wanted to work with us. He goes, I got a song for you. It's called Here She Comes. It's great. It's you. We're not going to write it. This is yours.

Blah, blah, blah. We did the song. We finished it. And I don't know if I love this. I want to love this. I don't know if I love this. And so it's Neptune's songs. So you must love it.

They're all amazing. And so we played it for the label. And they didn't go, I don't know if this is you. and it was more Ferell singing over us. And he's got such a wonderful voice and so talented that I couldn't mimic his voice and style. So it didn't make the record. And we said, let's go back to what we do. We wrote one more song called When It's Over, which got the top 10.

Before I get to that, though, I talked to Blinkway 82 about eight years later. And they had a Neptune story. They worked with the Neptunes because they were trying to change. Everybody was trying to stay in. There was a time period where absolutely everybody felt like they needed Farrell. We were all waiting in the water. We need something else. Is Scott Storch available?

No. You know what I'm holding? No, okay. Anyway, it was early 90s. But so Blink what I do goes, yeah. And so, yeah, you know, Farrell gives a song. It was called, Here She Comes, you know? I go, that was our song.

So he was just trying to like, just, you write. I've got seven things going on here. Just take, take, take. So. I mean, you get that feeling when you go into Lulu Lemon and they're trying to sell you something. Oh, yeah. And you're wondering, is this the thing that you're having an extremely hard time?

It was the joggers that gather at Lululemon that no one wants, that Farrell was trying to sell to us, bro. And so I thought it was hilarious about that. I don't know if that song ever came out. But so on our own, we got the song when it's over. And it was the last song that made the top 10 in 2001. So we had this last gasp and record didn't do so hot. It came out of the top 10. Ironica is our first top 10 record.

We had records that sold consistently, like 50. It's crazy. about now 50,000 records a week, you know, for like 30 weeks in a row. That record sold 106,000 in the first week, got to number six, and then jumped down to 48 and then made its way out. When it's over got to the top 10, but we were done. But it's always funny when you hear that now, 106,000 first week. And the band is basically fucked when it's like 106,000 now. Right? The first week is like incredible. It would be insane. That's like Drake numbers now. Yeah, like, probably almost no rock bands. What did Gunna sell? I think Gunna ended up selling like

96K first week, which is extremely good. Which is insane. Shocking, yeah. Right. And that's what we sold in 2001, and we're so excited, you know. But it's funny because on the WAC podcast, we were talking about it as if it sold 60K first week, which still super impressive, but less than his

other album that came up before. But then it ended up being that the conversation that we're having was basically useless because he actually sold like 50% more than we were talking. But you were right at the time to think that. I mean, who thought I was going to sell more than the first record? What I sold 80-something the first one? I actually did sell more. which is crazy because the first record since he had his whole case and everything was the one where he was talking about the snitching shit and it had a number one hit so it's got the strong narrative and it's got a big hit basically all you can ask for when you're trying to push a record you're right which interesting too because he was a street guy yeah so six nine street guy I don't know gunner real street guy no one cares yeah so where's the snitching end and where's it stop and some guys that they snitch it's over you know but less now than before jeepace is done

He's gonna call me like, hey, tell the motherfucker, Mark McGrath. I'm looking for him. No, no, I'm a tall, I'm an old man. I'm an old tuna, dude. I'm an old tuna. Oh, I'm an old tuna. What the fuck? Turned up non-affiliate.

I know. Come on. I'm a way to drop this. I don't see worms his way into my brain this deeply. What the fuck? Come on me. That shit worms his way into my brain. I feel like the average person in the Reddit does not have as encyclopedic knowledge of what's going on as you.

That's insane. By the way, the no jumper is my favorite. And you got me on Cali Banging, too. What's the other one I need to hit to? Chiracology. Shirecology. So if you follow in a jumper, Cali Banging and Shirecology. That's a triumphant of greatness on Reddit.

So that was of Sugar A. We saw it going down. And, you know, like I said, Interpol, those bands were starting to take over the rock world. And bands in our fraternity were starting to be out. Every five, six years, records, the music and see recycles itself. Because, you know, kids don't want to listen to what their older brother and older sister listen to, technically. They do it first and they want to find their own shit. And so that's kind of what happens in music.

We all swung for the fences. We all wanted to be those legacy bands. We all wanted to be ACDC. We all wanted to be the Eagles. And you laugh about it now because you're thinking I'm in Sugar Ray. But I will tell you this. I'm the last guy to big up us. And I'm proud of the songs we wrote because we have legacy songs.

And I'm grateful that those songs take me around the world. I make a better living than I deserve to. And able to take care of my two kids. And so I'm super grateful. And I still get to do something I love. For sure. I tell my kids that every day. man. But did you guys formally hang it up at a certain point? And were you already kind of like

aware of the fact that you might transition into being like a host and doing all this other shit? You know, if you could chew gum and read the monitor, you could host some things for MTV like Jocket Rock or or Sport Jock Rock or MTV Movie Awards. And, you know, I had a little thing where I could do that. I could read the thing, you know, come on a MX, J-Lo and Christina Aguilera, you know, all that shit. I could do a little bit of that. And a lot of bands were still on that like, this is lame. I'm like, I'll do it. I don't care. This is fun. I had no idea could possibly lead to her career. So in

2003, when our record after the last one, after the top 10 record, we made one more, because our record was in the top 10. The label wanted another record. We made a record called In the Pseudal Leisure that did nothing. They did absolutely nothing. And then we knew the writing was on the wall. Label was still fired up on us, still wanted, you know.

I mean, a band like us in the 70s would still be making records today for Atlantic records on the way. You have 30 chances until you got to hit record. had a hit record they gave you another 30 this is different the record industry was different back then because i'm always fascinated by that with with rock bands in general because i'm a massive wheezer fan which i know you've worked with rivers before but when you really go through the catalog it's kind of insane to see the peaks and valleys of like them kind of having such

unbelievably classic projects and then as time goes by like some of them kind of fall by the wayside but then they'll have like really good ones and then but like if you're going to be a rock man you got to just sort of ride that out, which is like rap doesn't really allow you the time to do that. Like that's not happening. Like, you put one bad album, we are done. And you age out and rap quickly. Like, Ply's is already on the classic rock, hip-hop of the, you know, Plies is already done. Like, he's considered a classic dude.

Like, I don't think he's young and fun and like, well, maybe not. No, yeah, he's definitely a classic. By my G-Face, I was just kidding, dude. That's just not funny. Yuri, sorry, bro. But, but, but, but yeah, so you don't get a couple shots and you don't get a couple shots in rock and roll anymore unless you're a band like Weezer. Green Day still putting out amazing records. Still, their last record dilemma is good as anything they've ever done.

My first punk band, 93, 94, Duky. That was it. That was like the first non-rap shit I ever liked. By the way, you're not alone in that because punk rock was not a commodity before Duky and smashed by offspring. Punk rock was underground. I remember listening to Black Flag like an 82. in my room on that'd be gigantic Bose headphones on my dad walks in he goes turn that crap off this will never be popular you know and I was only playing it because my dad hated it 10 years

later it's the biggest music ever but they they just made it palatable to a whole new audience and punk rock took off so kids like you it became part of your DNA and led you to the toby morse's in h2o the Danny Diablo's in the Freddie that's insane you know all the punk rock interviews I've done as well that's because you're East Coast guys you got check out this has been a slotted to prevail that I interviewed dude oh you what's wrong with you dude this is what's wrong with you dude how rad is that dude man he's such a likable guy did you see what he does live when he yeah all the music is off like he was doing it on the fucking podcast i'm just like dude how do you make that that's some like russian like historical like chant from the mountains of siberia you can't

he goes anybody can learn no problem that came from his ancestors without a doubt no but there's youtube videos a purport to teach you how to do that. I cannot. Go try it. I tried to learn. Of course I did. If you had like a death cord, did you think of anything more viral than Mark McGrath

starring in a death metal band to be sick. Well, Fred Durs and I were going to do a new wave band in the 80s and call it was like, it was like, it was called Pacifica. Pacifica. I'll never forget it. And we were just going to be like kind of like this daft punk Pacifica because we love like, you know, echo in the bunny man, Duran, Duran, all that good stuff. Never happened because we're busy.

But yeah. No, but that I just, I fucking love that. And I love that you interview. you everybody you know if someone you find interesting or fascinating and you can make anybody interesting and fascinating so it's great so i know i digress again but uh so yeah after the record in absurd leisure failed um the guys of my band were having young kids kind of like you have now do i have like no you're all right you're doing all right yeah because you did no i was doing that for myself no but i'm like oh dude no no no no because i i if i was telling you i'd be like i i thought you were doing that

i made it a little more blatant i thought you were doing that you know like yeah you got that guy he's so cool right now. He's got like cotton mouth weirdness. And I never tell anybody. I had to tell Lush the other day though. He had it bad. Did he not have a bad thing? Yeah. I know you're a lush fan as well. I love Lush. Lush is great. No, but Lush has such a good way of breaking everything down with an economy of words. Oh, I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he knows that's very important to me. It's huge to you. Yeah. Because the one mic philosophy will drive that. Nothing drives you more insane than that. And I feel like a little bit of one mic, I kind of broke the protocol a little a few times. No, but when you really, really come from like a writing background,

it can be really hard to deal with podcasts with people who just repeat themselves over and over and sort of like take five minutes to get a certain point out. Truth is in the details. It's not easy to fucking deal with that. So that to me is like a huge, huge thing that I don't like. I like someone who can get their point across with extreme efficiency. Well, I am not that guy, but I do it with a passion, I think. Because I have so much passion for things.

I try and make them all flat in my mouth at once, which is probably not the best idea. I mean, you can see the tangents we go on stories. Sometimes that's compelling. Sometimes it's not, you know, but I always try and bring it back around. But being a podcaster, being able to have to elaborate and to freestyle and to just sort of go off of a topic and see where it leads you. I mean, that's like a huge important gift as well. Well, it's something you do all day. Just being efficient is not always the best thing because then you might have like a really good 25 minutes.

You might be wondering what the fuck you're doing for the next two hours. Brickets. But Lush is great at that. But your whole crew is. Your whole team is amazing. But yeah. So then because of like doing a couple things for MTV and VH1, a lady at Extra call me. Lisa G.

She used her name. She's a legendary figure in the entertainment news business. And she said, you know, come in for a meeting because my manager, my manager, you ever heard of Harry Fraud? Yes. Musica to Harry Fraud. Amazing. My boys. Did you grab me in my postman?

His name's Rory. Rory. Roy Quigley is his real name. Okay. His father, Chip Quigley, was my manager for 25 years. So I saw Rory being born. I saw the whole thing. And so Chip was my manager.

And he goes, listen, dude, since we're going to comment down a little bit because some of the guys had young babies and kids, they didn't want to make another record and tour again, which I understood. Right. And so Chip called me up my manager and said, look, there's a lady here that actually wants you to take a meeting because I don't do auditions. They knew I wouldn't do an audition. I would never go because I'm just so stale. Auditions are like, you know, like doctors' rooms and they're so stale and weird.

And it brings out the worst of my personality. Right. For high, he's such a, what a sweet dog. We actually didn't have to deal with this little bastard for an hour and 20 minutes there. I'm kind of, he didn't make any noise or anything. He was out there. Ralph, what's cracking? Or was he just sleeping in here?

Oh, he was just laying right there. But look at the kind. Usually he makes a noise or something. Great guy. But I know he, you know, I know how Ralph gets down. But this is his move. He just comes over here and sort of just like puts his head in this place. Well, I've got dogs.

I love dogs. By the way, I can name a hundred dogs I like. I don't know if I can name 100 people I like. Really? You know what I mean? I can, but I really love dogs. As I get older, my threshold for appreciating a dog goes up. Did you have dogs growing up?

No, which I think is the problem. Yeah, for sure. And I see how my kid is going to be better adjusted because she's grown up around the dogs. Yeah. It would be a profound love for something other than family, which is, which is a good teaching moment. Yeah. And the dog will run into her in the yard and send her flying like three feet to her ass, yeah,

which is. They just, they mean it with love. Tuffing her up a little bit. So they get down. So I'll try to make a really long story longer. So I reached out to X. They reached out to me. I went for a meeting and I met this lady, we're kind of vibe in.

She goes, are you interested in hosting entertainment news show? I've never thought about it. She goes, let me bring it down to the stage. And I was so not caring and just thinking it was a meeting that I was so relaxed and didn't give a fuck. The game of the mic and I'm like, hey, the stars are out in Hollywood tonight. Let's take a look. Just doing like my cheesy thing, but having fun and everything worked. And I'll never forget, Jason Mamoa was there as like a stunt guest.

He was on a show called like North Shore or something way before obviously what he became now. He had short hair. It was kind of a Baywatch North Shore thing. And I think they just faked an interview with him to make him happy. And so I sat down and interviewed him. And he was the sweetest guy in the world. We got along so well. I couldn't have picked a better partner.

And then, well, great. Thanks. And I gave him the mic back. And I go, thanks. I was fun. I'll call you. I'm never interested in maybe doing a segment or something. Two weeks later, they call me and go, Mark, do you want to host the show?

And I go, what does that mean? I go, you got to show up every day, Monday through Friday? Every day? Now I'm in a band. I wasn't used to that, you know? And I ended up hosting extra for four years. And it was the most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life. Because I'd come from the stages, Adam, you know, where you do big moves.

Right. You know, you're trying to hit the back row. And TV is like very subtle. I mean, Clint Eastwood made a career out of raising his eyebrow. And I'm a bit of a spaz. talk by this interview. So I had to learn to sort of really tone it down and be like, hey, you know, and so I had to learn a lot. And I really was terrible the first couple months. I mean, awful. I remember walking into a 7-Eleven on Holloway and La Siena ago, about 7-Eleven there.

I don't know if it's still there. Getting a coffee at 6 in the morning and, you know, the characters that are there that early sometimes. And there was a guy walking in there with like neck tats and face tats. This is a 2004. And that wasn't as prevalent back then. He's getting a coffee. He's staring at me. I'm like, oh, great. I'm going to die right now. He comes over me he goes mark you stuck me you started extra but you're getting better bro keep it up oh my god this is happening this is like this is happening like so i had to learn in front of people on tv how to work at extra i did that from 2004 to 2008 and it was some of the most hardworking smartest people i've ever worked with you start that day at him with no show and four hours later

you've got a show you set up to satellite and you go home you know and you hope something doesn't break in between that you know damn so how much enjoyment do you get out of doing the tv stuff versus the a band. The band was still active. That was one thing that people don't understand. We put out of the greatest hits. We added a couple of songs to it. But we all wanted to take a break. I just didn't want to stop working, you know, but we still played about 40, 50 shows a year. You know, we're doing a lot of casinos and private shows and things we do now, basically. And so we did that for, you know, about four years. And then I just didn't love it. You know, I remember I did this interview once with Al Pacino. It's got to be weird doing the nostalgia circuit, right?

But it's just weird when you've got people come up to you and going, dude, what do you? you doing here like i remember i'll never john stewart just goes dude i thought you were a rock star what are you doing here and i kind of went oh oh i get a little of my soul just when i go yeah but it's over and i'm trying to find some and you know it's just but the craziest thing adam was uh alpuccino right i love alpuccino right how can you not iconic american actor he's doing a shakespearean play at the pascena playhouse now we're extra we're paris hilton we're lindsay lohan we're Britney Spears, you know, flying off the rails. That's what we're showing. We're never going to show Al Pacino's new theater Hamlet at Pasadena. But they finesse him into getting me to go out there to do

a line of questioning for him to get him to ask him a question. So I go out there like a moron. I ask him about 12 things about the play. Hey, when you're doing Hamlet, and he's wow, and he's really into it, you know, and I know I've got this question I got to ask him. And it's like my insides are dying. And I go, hey, Al, you know, we're extra, you know, and our fans want to know this. What do you think about Britney Spears and Kevin Federline breaking up? And I hand on the mic and he goes, you're better than that. And walked away. And I just, you like the wicked witch and Wizard of Oz.

It's kind of melted on the carpet. And I went, I'm just not. There's, this is too much talent for me. I'm not built for this. But that's kind of like a great technique. If you want to get something viral is ask. like the best question of the moment to the worst person who's going to have like a totally irrelevant perspective on it and that is kind of inherently viral it's the ogy viral way because i'll

tell you why you know what extra did what tonight we got out but you know we got us thoughts on brittany and kevin breaking up and you never think that and they go well out was a little shy to tell us real thoughts so make sure you see you know what i mean so it's the early days like a viral hits like that's funny you say that and very intuitive man wow that's fucking hilarious yeah did that for a while and then went back to the band kind of full-time. And, you know, Extra gave me this set of tools, my back pocket called hosting, which I can bring out when CNN's doing a, you know,

thing of the 90s. Or I hosted Don't Forget the lyrics a little while and Killer Karaoke that was Steve-O's gig, that he was too crazy for Killer Karaoke. So they got me in there. And I hosted a radio show on Sirius XM. You ever used to do Whippets? I never did with Whippets.

No, I've never, I've never party with Steve. Really? And we just, we kind of were like in just opposite. at universes. I kind of wish that I partied with Steve, like if I had seen him in his full glory and not part of his life, that would make where he's at now even more impressive. Oh, I mean, I would have chased him down, you know, because like he told me a story. I heard a story. I think it was on your podcast, maybe, but he was a party with Mike Tyson and they were in a bathroom for nine hours, him and Mike Tyson for nine hours in a bathroom.

So yeah, yeah, I would have chased down Steveau back in the day. But to see what he's done now and become this like monster, like stand up and podcast. It's just been great, man. Good for him. He's done it. For sure. Okay, so I'll put a narrative out there that I heard about and you tell me what the real version of it is. Please do. The narrative was you got sued by the other members of Sugar Ray because you were demanding $10,000 in appearance per performance as well as you wanted to fly first class and you wanted them to fly coach or, you know, economy or whatever. I'm guessing that this is not 100% how you see it or how did this actually play out and was and how far did this lawsuit actually go? Well, I wanted $20,000 show.

I thought you were going to try to play the humble card. And I wanted to private yet. Look at this. This was someone doing a Scorz Earth lawsuit on us after 23 years of being originally together. Oh, wow. So he's an original guy that you were original members. And they both left at different times. Burn the house down on the way out.

Basically. Which is the reason why you will never see the original sugar A get back together. But the goodness is no one cares. Hey, guys, original guys are getting back together. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like it's not like the Eagles are getting back together. I value what they did, their history, I'm grateful for it.

You know, is there resentment there? Absolutely. You know, I mean, I hate what they did to us. I've been sued once in my life, my former best friends, you know. And also they, you know, they took a whole score sturd stir to like my, my, my guitar player still with me today, you know, and our ex-manager and our business manager are still with me today. So it was, they were pushing a button because they knew what that meant to me.

And they were kind of saying, we never want to do this again. And I go, all right, I'm a lifer in the music. business. I love performing and I'm so grateful. I'm never going to stop and neither is my guitar player. And so by doing this, they kind of sealed their own fate. You know, I'll never, you know, call me crazy, but we're not going to be friends again after you sue me and we're probably never going to do business again. Call me insane. That's ever been done before, right? So nothing, there's nothing there. You know what I mean? That was kind of going out. You throw everything against the wall. And we settled it, you know, and I'm glad to say we're carrying on. But yeah, it was a trade

thing and how you can carry on because you know they they both sently left the band we didn't want to stop there goes ralph yeah sit um down down ralph's like the story's boring me dude move it on down you don't listen to shit ralph crate train uh he used to be in a crate back in the early days now he's way too big crates are hardcore man yeah no he's super well-behaved now though it's a great dog we have another dog that pee's everywhere and shit so is it a In comparison, he's amazing. Puppy. I think it's like six months old or something.

Now, isn't that a bummer? Do you have all overruns and like nice rugs in your spot? No. We got some, they seem okay. But they piss on them and then like it's hard to get that smell up. It's a drag. So it's a whole thing. So nice another segue back to it.

So we settled the thing, man. It was a bummer. But the biggest takeaway is that I lost two friends and two band members. And you know, and like people say, get over it, Mark. And like, that caused me so much stress, one on for a long fucking time. And I don't if you've ever been involved in a lawsuit before. It deranged your band. account you know especially if you got some of those Marty singer big time lawyers man it's like

it just was such a waste and we kind of came up to the same agreement we would have made anyway right you know what I'm saying that's what all but there were so much weird egos involved and you know like I didn't act perfectly either you know I was hurt you know I was heard you know they left the band no one was ever fired just some weird narrative there that I fired anybody everybody always wants to play the victim on the way out well that's how you get the most value emotionally and all that you know you just throw it all in there so um you know I don't have a lot of hate in my heart and I don't for them because I'm grateful for what we've done accomplished together. I'll never devalue, especially one of the guys, the drummer of the band

was, you know, there's three of us that wrote the songs and he was a huge part of the song writing contribution and always be grateful for that. 100%. So I want to ask this just because you having such an extreme knowledge and no jumper is kind of shocking to me. What is your overall media diet? You know, the average person in their mid-50s isn't really like paying attention to niche underground hip-hop platforms and shit. Like, what do you spend your time looking at on YouTube or whatever? Well, it's funny. You know, no jumper is it for me.

I wait for the drops. You know, it's like sometimes I tease myself and go to YouTube first, but I'd rather listen than watch. Do you have people that find that? I don't hear that a lot. But then when I see the numbers, I'm like, oh, there are a shitload of people listening to this on Apple or whatever. Maybe it's an old person thing. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Because the visual component sounds important to me because I can really focus what I'm not watching. Interesting. When you got guys in here, they're rolling blunts and some guys tapping bottles and guys. You know what I mean? I feel like that's part of the content is just seeing all these little ambient motions going on. I think it's great. Yeah. And actually, I'm watching more now because my kids discovered and show me you could put YouTube in the bath that I love taking baths.

Oh, really? It's like, wow, YouTube. So I was watching the George Santos thing in my bubble bath watching YouTube. Like insert on joke there, right? But yeah, but you're the content that I lean on the most, too. But I, you know, I'll do the, I'll do Joe Rogan stuff because I find him. fascinating because you can make anybody sound interesting. But yeah, but no jumpers my go to, dude. Like I got to say, it truly is. You're my diet. You're my entertainment. And I've

like, I go, why do I like this so much? And it goes back to you. It goes back. You are an extremely fascinating, interesting character who knows how to surround. You're like Howard Stern. You know how to surround your people and get the best at them. You're the, you know, Magic Johnson, you're Michael Jordan. You get the best of the people around you. You know how to find someone who's interesting in the weeds. Do you know what I'm saying? And it's an incredible. incredible talent. I appreciate that so much. Yeah, I feel like that has kind of come as a result of the fact that we are not this mainstream platform. It's going to be hard for us to get guests. This is something I always learned from Vlad, is that you might not be able to get the superstar

in the equation, but you might be able to get their friend or you're seeing this with Diddy right now, where you might get the bodyguard or the ex-girlfriend and they have way more of an interesting perspective than you would ever get from the person who's the star of the show. So I've always kind of had to take that mentality and apply that to everything in general. Like my ultimate dream or my goal is to find some random kid that might not even have musical talent, but it's so interesting that he becomes a real asset to the brand. You know, that's like the best feeling. You kind of did that, right?

Like triple X, right? Like you find people on the way up. Yeah. Which is even more like, you know, impressive today the truth. I was trying. The label thing, it just wasn't you. Did it just Peter Al? Was it pandemic?

Yeah. It was like controversy stuff. It was just, it was a bad fit. Where'd you and Lena meet? She DM me because she was working for a social media agency, basically, that part of what they had tasked her with was like, oh, we have all these girls that are doing content for us, get them on podcasts. So she thinks in her head, what's a good podcast?

She had just watched me interview the EDM DJ Dylan Francis. Yeah. She hits me up in the DMs. Within two messages, I was basically saying like, yeah, maybe I'll be. I'll interview those girls, but you should let me take you out for a drink. Boom. Perfect. Just love at first sight out of here.

I wouldn't say love that first sight, but for sure, we, the first night and it was kind of slowly evolved from there. Yeah. I did that same thing. Yeah? You're not supposed to do that. Really? I met my now girl at the Viper room. Right.

Wow. In 1994. That's fucking sick. Two hours later. Yeah. Wow. Two hours later. And I go, I woke up the next day.

Did you wake up next day? Go, oh, wait. I don't want to get out of here. Like, I don't want to run up. out of here. I want to talk more. I want to like, you know what I mean? Like we almost got out this the sex thing. And then like I really like you. I felt like Eddie Murphy and Boomerang, you know, he's holding up the sheets going, when are you coming back? You're coming back. So like, you know, she dropped me off, which is so gang. So I'm like, I can hang. She's,

no, no, you got to get out of here. You're reminding me of how this actually went down, which is I remember being very appreciative of the fact that around midnight, she was like, I'm going to show myself out. You know, like, she didn't try to overplay her card and like, Because she could probably tell at that time that I had way too much going on in the girl department. So she wasn't trying to like overplay her hand like that, which probably ultimately kind of endeared me to her. Of course it did. Because she didn't need you, bro. You know what I got this?

She did, but she wasn't trying to let me know. Of course not. You want to get me? Act like you don't need me, especially back then, you know? Definitely. Okay, just I have to ask this because I'm just kind of like fascinated by all these bands from this era and like how they sort of interact and stuff. But at one point, you started a festival with Art from Everclear. I did.

And then this didn't really work out? Or what was the original idea? And why didn't it work out? I love art. He's great guy. He's got his ideas of how things should be. And that's it. Okay.

You know, I think we started too early. We started this tour in 2011. It's called the Summerland Tour. And the idea was take a bunch of 90s rock bands and put it together in a tour. And I haven't played venues. They have no business buying it. ticket to never mind playing in this day and age so we're playing the greek theater places like that and it was great the first one run around it was great and art and i had no

problem we were talking about the second one and i got dude i think we should have like tone loke we should add like unvogue and i wanted to make it more of like what we're talking about like no barriers tour he goes oh i was going to want to go more hard punk and bring out like h2 oh and like and i go yeah i don't really see where that's gonna go i mean that's not the vision i have for this I want to be as big as it can be. And he was still trying to like, he's really into his punk ethos, you know, and wants to maintain his credibility like that. And so we just, we had a different vision.

There was no weirdness. There was no falling out. I still see him all the time. We go out to lunch every now and then. So that was that. I mean, the story, how we kind of ended is not very interesting. Right. Because there's no big like lawsuit, you know, a fight or anything.

It just, we had different visions of what it could be. But we were just too early at them. Right. That tour now would do great business. Because are there a lot of like tours like that? they're kind of trying to traffic in the nostalgia thing absolutely they're doing that a lot now well the craziest thing there's a tour called that i love the 90s tour right and vanilla headline you have been vanilla ice in here no i haven't but i watched vlad's uh interview with him and he's

sick i think you'd be great even vlad had to go to florida and do it in his house that was the car one right with all the cars remember he did the house tour as well yeah yeah that guy's cars i mean is he cap and it's like this is seven million dollar car right here i mean it's like a vw bug i'm like we're Seven million? It would appear that Vanilla Ice is making an absurd amount of money based on everything I've seen. Well, I know he does okay. The shows I know, and I know enough of business, and he's doing fine. There's nothing in me that makes me want to have a $7 million car in my garage.

No. Or even a million or even a couple hundred thousand. It seems kind of overwhelming. You seem to kind of underplay of the whole thing, which is a smart play to play, if you know what I'm saying. Right. But he's the role in the 5.0 guy, so he's got to have cars. Right. But a lovely dude, you guys who get along famously, it's a very compelling interview.

But so there was these track tours. He said, I lived in 90s track tours. It'd be like, Van der Leis, naughty by nature, trigger treach, the greatest guy in the world. Cullio, rest in peace. Tone Loak, Young MC, N Vogue, TLC. And so they called me and said, Mark, would you bring Sugar A out? And I go, we're kind of a band, you know, bro, I don't really do that.

And he goes, well, would you do it to a track and a drummer? And I'd never done songs to track before. I go, no, I don't feel good about that, especially calling it Sugar Ray. Right. I don't want to mix up the, you know, the, the, they don't want to give anybody a confusion of what they're getting if you see Sugar A. Legally, are you allowed to perform as Sugar A and it's just you in a backing track or whatever? I can do whatever I want as long as I satisfy the terms of our deal.

Okay. You know, we all own the trademark, if that makes sense to you. Okay. You know, as being as opaque as I can. Got it. And, but I can be Mark McEather of Sugar A and do anything and do nothing. So what I did is it took that and a drummer along and became a whole new side hustle for me. And now I'm playing, I'm playing the Kia Center again with, you know, the TLC and Nottie by Nature.

It's so much fun doing four songs and it's all hits and it was just crazy. The tour went crazy. But for some reason, they can't figure out that 90s tour, that kind of mid-90s, like the gin blossom, sugar ray. You know, not the star bands, but like that little thing you put four of us together. We just can't do it for some reason. Really? The audience is just not fully locked in or what? I think that might be now.

It hasn't been done in a while. I think the timing was just a little bit off, but I think that it would be now. But you think if you had smash mouth, sugar A, rest and peace to steep, you know, tonic and better than Ezra, you could put four or five thousand people. You probably could in the Greek, but you lose the momentum in between the flyover states, you know, for some reason. And a lot of us do the, you know, the pierogi fest and the zucchini fest of the world.

So we're all doing some good business. You know, that fair money, man, the casino money. It's good stuff. So I guess what I'm trying to tell you, Adam, no one's cracked the code how to make that 90s tour. Because every other decade's figured it out, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, no one's done it. Besides, I love the 90s, but that's the only track artist. So I'm going to work out until the day I die, you know. So do you wonder about or worry about the overall health of rock music in general?

Because there's been quite a few people who've, you know, said that rock music is dead. Sometimes you see things popping up that makes you feel like, oh, okay, there's still interesting. stuff happening, but there's definitely reasons to fear that maybe rock music's never going to really reach the level that it once was at. I think you're entirely right. It'll never be Led Zeppelin and Boston and Aerosmith anymore because you don't have a machine behind it to put it out there anymore. That machine being a record label. That's the good news and the bad news. You know, I mean, because anybody can do it now and you got to go find it. And there are bands that kind of peek through like, you know, Greta Van Fleet, you know, sneak through. There's the struts that

doing a thing but they're all backed by a machine i've yet to see a band really take off and sustain a career sustain a career that's that's the caveat there on the internet have you it's limited for sure name one i don't know yeah i mean so i just haven't seen that yet now rock and roll is becoming like jazz it's a niche thing you know remember jazz was the biggest thing in the world in the 40s 50s it was the top seller sometimes i want to communicate to some of my hip-hop friends but I don't even really want to go down this wormhole of like bands live are so much better on average than rappers like rapper hip-hop has a culture for better for worse of doing very little when you go on stage and that is not an option when you're a fucking man like it has to be

everybody just going crazy together in unison when I think of all the hardcore and punk shows I went to growing up is like some of the greatest moments of my life very very few hip-hop shows in my life that have have come close to matching that energy. Astute observation, once again, from the 22, sir, because you're right. And you want to know why? Malcolm Gladwell, again, where are the hours of playing live? You know, especially during the SoundCloud era and the drill stuff, a song comes out. I just made the song yesterday.

It's 10 million copies, and now you want to go on clubs. They don't know how to perform. In a band, you're performing in a garage, you're playing. You have not lived until you played in front of nobody. You got to eat the hours. That's how you learn to perform. That's how you learn to deal with obstacles. Nobody being there.

Hecklers, that didn't work. Moving on. Not giving a fuck. And there aren't a lot of local hip-hop shows. I mean, there's some. I see it out there. I get it, but not like the hardcore scene is, man. I just saw a Nardwar interview with Jack Antonoff,

who was saying that part of his armor as a person and as a performer is the fact that he toured in his band as the headliner and had to be completely fucking dead. You know, like the situation where all the other bands leading up to you are better than you performing. Yeah. And I was like, that is something that will toughen you up beyond repair, even though I'm sure he's probably never going to have to worry about that again. And he had a lot of money in his pocket and he was bummed out. You know, he's okay.

You know, but that bleachers thing. I saw them early. He was okay. Look, one of the biggest rock stars in the world, Chris Martin, it took a while for him to find his Bono. You know what I'm saying? He used to get out there and cold play behind a piano. He was going to go to those stadiums. You got to be a rock star.

to touch the back room you know you got to really perform elisha keystile a fucking rock star you know they put in the work they put in the hours and a lot of these kids say careful what you ask for and again getting back to sustaining it if you can't bring it live you might not have a career forever right you know what i'm saying this put your hands up thing we're done we're done there's got to be something new that's just a real fail safe you know go to i do that shit live all day right but you got to figure out something new you got to figure out what works for you And just go and act there and act like you don't give a fuck. It's not going to work for everybody.

It's not. It's not. Can't all be Liam Gallagher. Right. So, okay, what is the good life to you at this point? You mentioned, you know, doing these sort of throwback tours as well as doing, you know, the different sort of casino appearances and all this type of stuff. Like, there's that.

There's TV. Like, what way of life do you enjoy the most? In particular, like, having to balance that with spending time with your family and enjoying all the spoils of your efforts over the years. Like, as you get older, what's the ratio that you want in your? your life and what gives you the most fulfillment? I think once you become a dad for me personally, that's what I lead with now. I'm a dad first.

Right. That's me. And your kids are what age? They're 14. I have fortunate twins growing up in the Valley. Ever seen euphoria on HBO? Oh, I hope it's not like that. Oh, I'm battling.

I am battling. Oh, no. Oh, my God. Shout out to Liden, Harley. I love my kids. They're greatest. But, man, they're about to go to high school. And I just, you know, you just, I try to instill them all these, like,

you know the hope their moral compasses up and try to tell them to be good people but it is rough out there man but even with a good foundation i'm trying my best adam i'm trying the temptation is hardcore and i just see them being influenced by some of their friends and i and it's like you know you put them here and then they're going to go right or left it doesn't matter what you did as a parent holy shit we all love her kids we love her kids and it's all different ways to parent you know i'd never judge anybody's way of parenting but that's why it's so fucking heart wrenching is knowing that right now my kid is three and a I get to control nearly everything in her life. And as a result, it's been amazing to see what an incredible spirit she can become because of the fact.

So beautiful. She hasn't had to deal with anyone bullying her or being mean to or anything like that. Like, that's completely fucking foreign to her. But then you're meanwhile at the part where you're giving up control and you're realizing I'm not going to be able to micromanage every detail of their life going forward. Adam is going to break your heart when some. You're close. The kindergarten preschool, let me someone that's going to say, don't want you to play checkers with me where the hell they do checkers come 50 secgers um you know uh

and then they come home and then daddy someone broke my heart and like be prepared for that and i'm going into like boyfriend and girlfriend territory too wait to that uh but we're also the first breed of a generation of parents raising kids entirely on social media so the bullying follows you home you can't get away from it i mean the the the amount of kids that are so depressed and that are cutting themselves. It's terrifying. It's unbelievable what's happening out here. I believe it's probably manifested more out here in Los Angeles. I'm guessing. But from what I'm hearing, it's just a nationwide fight. We're Lewis and Clarking this parenting shit in social media, and especially coming out of the pandemic. Now, your daughter's young enough, so you're probably

not going to remember. Well, she won't remember. But do you closely monitor their social media used? Do you try to get involved with that? Or is at a certain point, you just got to give up? The best I can. And like, when do you give it to them? When do you give them a fun? Like, we, you know, we were the worst parents ever because we gave them the iPads if we could get another 20 minutes at a restaurant you know what I mean it's just like anybody judging us you know it was our thing and I was grateful to have that 20 minutes with my wife and whatever right but I probably did everything wrong by the way I'm not a perfect parent shout out to everybody I mean what he talking about well there's always got a perfect parent I'll show you a weirdo there's always going to be that balance between actually like

spending every moment being like intently you know in focus with your kid versus needing to get some can sleep so you put on Disney Plus for an hour that's exactly right that's exactly right you know and god but I remember the first time I was hungover and my kid legs like dad get up and like I'm like I shoot him away you want to feel like the devil yeah anyways um but yeah I mean what we're saying I thought there was something I was really on to this one oh we're just talking about uh what you're focused on in your life as a whole yeah yeah yeah so so dad first and foremost it is it's what you know it happened to me a little later in life I was 42 when I had my kids you know uh so but yeah No, it's from social media.

Like, you know, we monitor as much as we can, but they have to have Snapchat or you can't be social. You don't want to make them to outcast their own. You know what I mean? It's like, I remember I didn't have the cool clothes in school because my mom shopped at Marshalls exclusively. And like I had the Adidas with four stripes on them. They were called like Adidon's son or something, you know.

And so like I remember going to like not going to like not give my kids all the tools just at least get in the game because it's tough enough. So yeah, we're probably doing a lot of things wrong. But we love our kids. And I know we're doing that right. And I'm gone a lot of. I'm gone a lot. I miss a lot of things. I miss my daughters like, you know, play this weekend. And it's little things to people outside of this universe, but my universe is gigantic.

So I've made a lot of sacrifices and so have they. You know, it's something I'm really grateful for that they realize. So being part of an aband, a touring band is how I make my living, first of all. And something I enjoy doing. So that's also something that I lead with us all. And I'm a husband too. You know, I love my wife and together forever. You know, we put up a lot of bullshit. We got it all the way early. You know, she's still a lot of says today, like, in a certain time after, like, 50, like, the sex, sex play, sex game. Right. It just kind of goes away. You know what I'm saying?

I mean, she'll be reaching for something in the kitchen and she'll like the ass pod. I go, hey, you know what I mean? But, like, you know, you really got to set up. You know, it's almost like a date now. You set it up, like, and make it work and everybody gets a little buzz and all that. You know, it's just a spontaneity kind of goes out a little bit, at least from what I found. Well, there's some dick chocolates that this midget gave me. I didn't try to, but it seemed like it was fucking him up.

Was that little D? Yeah, D-Lo. D-Lo. Oh my God, dude. That was a funnish. And that made me love Copper Raider. Yeah, yeah. Great man.

But I mean, it was falling out. And Raider was saving him, man. That made me go, man, this is the snow jumper family. You're so lucky being. I was so great. Yeah. Oh, and then Sydney Star? Yep.

Beautiful woman. Are you ever going to go down? Nah. I don't want to offend Eddie Winslow. Shout out to Daddy Winswell. He's doing his damn thing. Another 90s icon. Well, according to Wack, who knows the family?

Do you know that picture of Wack that he's like nude in a... I do, yeah. Is that real? That is real. I am so happy that's real. I am so, you know, didn't pause. And if you mention that photo around him, he will go on a 10-minute monologue explaining why it's not gay and how he was just looking at his phone.

And when he gets out of his shower, he likes to lotion up and lay on the bed. I never even considered that it was gay. I just thought it was a funny photo, but he will make sure you know that was not gay. In a million years, I never thought that was guy that was gay. Right. Guy totally coconut oiled up already like on like a brown shag rug and like his bedroom's all brown. And like, you know, I like this like, but I'm so glad that's real. I will shout out about 500.

I'm a huge fan. And I love your odd couple thing you guys. Yeah. I love it. It just works so perfectly. It's a tried and true thing. And I can't get enough. So like, yeah, when you guys drop, that is what I'm focused.

on but that dad first uh husband second you never forget about that and they're a performer and i'm up for anything and i love my friends man i've been riding my friends a long time i mentioned my mcg we've been best friends for 45 years and i wish this upon everybody especially my kids if you can have a best friend someone you can share your whole life with man there is such a joy to getting older with that and i've been with my wife for third years so we've been stacking years and when you stack years there's a gangster quality to that and i mean this meaning this meaning like like you show me like tough guys in prison and all. I get it.

I love the West Watson and, you know, oh, and look those titties. I get it. Right. I get it. I mean, there's that lane.

But when you stack years with people, man, that to me showing up every day, doing the boring shit that's not applauded. Doing the boring shit that's not getting on no jumper. That to me, there's a lot of gangster dads in the valley. You're showing up every day doing everything right. That to me is a salute.

Yeah. Wow. I love hearing you say that because like yesterday I felt a little bit of that feeling. I get into the house. I can tell my wife is a little bit annoyed by the fact that the cleaning lady called out she's over here doing the dishes she's dealing with all this bullshit

and I get home and I got all my own shit going on I got a million fucking things that I could be just like talking about myself and instead I just snap into like dad mode and I'm like feeding the dogs and taking some shit taking the trash out doing all this shit and it's like I do take like a serious amount of pride

and just being a good solid partner and dad at a certain point and I feel you on that because it's like you are operating this little fucking business that's going to go, that is way more delicate than an actual business. Without a doubt. Because this employee could get up and leave at any given moment if she ain't feeling your energy. Without a doubt.

And you also live with that energy as well. And you go home and just don't even just tap in. You don't even ask. Right. I mean, that's that stuff I'm talking about. Doing tasks that aren't being celebrated. You know, doing the mundane, showing up to work every day. I love my job.

I'm assuming you love your job. You don't you're the best actor in the world. You know what I'm saying? And I love my job. but there's there's drawbacks. I'm fucking tired. There's just nothing more exhausting to talking to something for 90 minutes, keeping the energy up, getting your brain working.

You do three or 40. I hear you say like, dude, I'm tapped, whack. I did four interviews today, dude. This one only needs to be three hours, okay, bro. You know what I'm saying? So it's amazing what you do and then go home and then also service your wife. And, you know, your kids too. They're getting to be at, they're the energy suckers in the best way.

And you're going to be so happy with yourself when you stack a couple of years with your daughter that you put in the work in time. Never regret it. What do you think of as keeping you together for 30 years? Like that's, that's incredible. And especially the fact that you guys waited so long to have kids. Like, what has kept you guys together? A massive understanding of each other's imperfections.

You know, I'm not perfect. She's not perfect. I was never looking for someone to be perfect. You know, we cheated on each other. We've been shitty to each other. But the end of the day, she's my best friend. Like, nothing she does bothers me. That's what I knew.

You know, feet game. perfect, you know, she has just kind of, but you know what I mean? The boomerang thing. That's the perfect analogy. Something bothered me. It's such a small thing. Like, she's got a laugh that always charms me. And we put up with the bullshit with each other that nobody probably ever would.

Because we saw the long play. And I, I signed a record deal in 1994. I came up here for my noble rights, my king riches. I am a rock star. I want all the way. I want it all. I met her two months after we signed a record. Wow.

So I did everything I could to fuck it up, and so did she. This is before we had a hit record. That's how I feel about Lennett, too, though, is that I got with her like two months after I signed my record deal. Right as No Jumper was starting to get a tiny bit of momentum, boom. But you think you got a good outlet and you got a good partner. You can do that, you know, plug talk thing. And you know, you've got a good outlet to get that outlet out if you know what I'm saying. Yeah.

And you have a partner that supports that's a fucking business. It's a win-win for everybody. Yeah, it creates a little bit of a different level of closeness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But my wife sits at the point, like, you sure I want to go out and go to the vase and get a, get a horse from her? She's like, she's at that point. And it almost hurt me. I'm like, no, you know, I love you.

You know, but she's like at that point, she understands all things. So a profound understanding has kept up together for so long. And I genuinely like her. You know, when you wake up at him, you look over and maybe Lena's sleeping and she's breathing and she's sleeping. But she's sleeping. I can't wait to spend the day with you. That's the magic. And if you don't have that then, I don't know,

because it looks to go away. You've got to work at relationships, man. I've never worked harder at something than my relationship, you know? And I'm doing this for the first time. I'm being a husband at this age for the first time, and I'm being a parent of 14-year-old twins for the first time. So I'm making mistakes. So my kids, thank God, allow me to make mistakes.

So is my wife. Hell yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. That's great to hear, man. Just like seeing you still having such a great attitude about life in general after all these years and just being in such a good place. Like, it's just honestly super inspiring.

Well, that's sweet of you to say, man, I've got my ups and downs like everybody else. You know, someone's going to go, I saw that asshole at the airport and he was a dick two weeks ago. You know what I mean? It's funny. The other things bother you because I try not, I try to leave as much happy as I try to get people as much joy as I can. Because I'm probably the least talented guy who's ever received a number one record. Really? You feel that way?

I'm sure there's a lot of good contenders out there. I don't know. I mean, there might be people that were manufactured maybe and that somehow got it. in there and but technology came around just at the right time you know with this pro tool business and all that david con as i mentioned we found our songwriting thing so for me to have any sort of like anger issues or be angry at my career or have any kind of resentment towards it it's foreign to me i would play fly eight times in a row when we were playing live if i could there i shout out musicians who have these incredible hits in their back pocket and don't play them because the joy of playing a hit

song is like the best rock you could ever take time for 1,000 so that never gets old playing never okay and i hear people say that oh god if i got to play this song one more time i remember crazy town remember crazy town oh yeah come my lady come come when i first moved here and started going to bars in hollywood i would like some of the porn star girls i was fck and would be like yeah like my roommate she's with the drummer from crazy town and i'm just kind of like oh fuck like i'm hanging out with people that know they just know members of crazy town is like weird bro shifty shift here yeah yeah yeah by the way shout like shifty it really good really good guy, sweet guy.

But yeah, what was I saying about Craigsdown? I lost my chain of thought. Oh, yeah, well, shout out to Craigsden. Shout out to Crazy Town. But the number one song around the world. Oh, I saw Crazy town play the Roxy. And they came out and they go, all right, let's just get this over with. They said that.

Let's just get this over with so people can leave. We don't want to be here. Who's not a real fan. Come a lady, come, come, go. Oh, my boy. I shook her baby. Thank you. Mass exudiffs out the door.

Really? And I'm like, the crowd, you know, a crowd, I don't care if there's two people there or 50,000. They never want to be insulted for being a fan. Oh, yeah. And I don't care if your memories. One of my kids' first song is, I think it's Cy, gangam style. Oh, gangam style. That means a lot to me because the first song they ever, like, reacted to.

So how dare you ever insult, like, an audience for, like, and I was just crazy town fighting back against, you know, the huge blowback they got. I understand that. We all have that in different ways. I know they do their thing now and they're great and make people happy. But I was just blown away by that. You know, and bands that just don't even play their hits or have any kind of resentment towards it. Or, you know, we're going to play a jazzy version of this song that you love so much because I'm bored playing it. I never understood that mentality.

Maybe because I'm not a real musician, maybe. Yeah, well, hey, it might serve you. I feel the same way. I feel like my ability to give a fuck about music is possibly amplified by the fact that I can't play music and I've never had any sort of experience playing music. Have you ever recorded a rap? No. Are you lying? Yes.

Have I ever recorded a rap that I in any way took serious? No, there was one coked out night with a couple of my BMX homies. Yeah. And we fucking recorded a rap, which I remember punching in. And I remember being so fucked up that I was kind of getting out of breath, even just doing like one lyric at a time. Luckily, I never really hit the airways. Is it around? It is, but I am the only person who has actually.

You would never blame? us, you're no jumper, a zesty disciple audience with the, what the, what the Adam just would be kind of sad too, because my one homie was in and is dead now too. So I remember him being like super depressed when we recorded it. Oh, bro, I'm sorry to hear that. No, it was, it was a bad situation. I'm sorry. No, it's just like, oh no, I do. I'm sorry. I do want to like go find it now to see if he had any like ominous lyrics because I feel like that would be crazy wouldn't it? Yeah. How are your BMX skills now? I can still do a few things, but it's not, you know, like the problem with it is that bike riding is all about.

this like the push off the bike off the ground just pulling it up and like my forearms after doing that a few times it's just lit the fuck up and I feel like there's so many muscles in my body that basically like are not used to being engaged at all so when I do go ride bikes it's like I'm very scared of injuring myself yeah and it's like this feeling of like you you do a rail five times and you're like oh I should come back in a few days and do this another five times because my muscles, like, if I just go crazy right now, it's just my body's not going to be able to handle it. Like, if you want to ride bikes into older age,

you have to keep, like, a protocol. It's the muscle memory, right? You have to keep it going because you can't just, like, expect to go hop on a rail if you haven't bunny hopped in a year, which I don't think I've bunny hopped in two years, probably. Which is crazy because you're probably in the best shape of your life, would you say? Yeah, but you got more chest action. But doing BMX is just like, it's such a specific thing that you're never going to get in the gym.

I remember seeing Dave Mira at Warpedor. A goat. Yeah, the best. Which Warptor also where I met Mike Eskimea, Rick Thorne, etc. I went in probably 98 in Massachusetts. No, no, just as a fan. And I remember I met them and those were the first pros I think I ever met. They were so rad.

Such good guys. That whole Warpter experience was amazing. But I remember just seeing his arms like you said and there was just like this component of Popeyeism that was like, wow, first of all, it looks like can kick your ass. Second of all, that's where that driving the bike comes from. Yeah. I mean, I feel like BMX is one thing that we've seen great strides being made by the women. but it's like one of the hardest sports

unless you have like extreme upper body strength like it's just like skateboarding the girls are fucking really good now yeah because it's more technique the MX has a huge strength element that makes it like really difficult for smaller people like if you don't have a specific body type or whatever it can be kind of hard to duplicate it

almost like being a gymnast you know what I mean you have to have a certain kind of like you know stuff I made them say talk about muscle memory at a wedding about five years ago thinking I could still do windmills break dancing remember we talked about early Yeah, well, there was two veneers on the floor by the time I was done. Really?

Because I tried to go into a New York backspin and then do my windmills, and my two veneers flew out, blood everywhere. I went, thanks for playing, and I ruined the wedding. Holy shit. There you go. Wow, you and Vanilla eyes do have a lot in common. We do. Our veneer games on fire. No, I was talking about the break dancing.

I'm pretty sure he was big on that, too, right? He was a huge BMXer. Do you know that? Really? Gigante. He said he used to race, but I don't know, his bio might have been a little. But he's a huge race. He still rides BMX and motocross, too.

Huge motocross guy. Yeah. He's somebody... People used to think I was Vanilla Ice. There was like a weird... Yeah, I can see that a moment in time. There's only so many, like, famous white guys that are kind of doing music at that time.

And they were, like, have you ever seen Van Gogh? And Mark McGrath's the same room or something like that. But I used to get Ethan Hawke all the time. Really? Because I had a little bit of reality bites thing, especially when Training Day came around. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'd be going to, like, do TSA, like at airports.

And I'd have a hat on because I thought I was all special, you know? And I'd see someone look at me, go, I know who you are, man. I love your movies, man. That's not me, man. That's not me. And they'd be bummed. They go, oh, be that guy.

Be that guy. So I ended up signing autographs as Ethan Hawk. So people wouldn't think Ethan Hawk was a dick. You know what I mean? So it was a little time there, especially when I was a little skinnier. Well, he really owes you one right there. Well, what's such a barber? TMC caught him once going down in like the village in New York, man.

He's buying him. By Ethan Hawk, an intellectual, like incredible artist, you know, a really great actor, getting compared to me. That's a bit of a bummer. And someone was going down the street goes, hey, Mark, Mark, Mark. And Ethan Hawke turns around and he goes, I'm not him. Just walked away like in shame. So Ethan, I apologize.

Shout out to you, man. Yeah. And I've been the guy in the airport like Googling someone like that I'm standing next to in line. Oh yeah. Just to make sure that this is the dude that I'm thinking about saying hi to you. Right, right. Because you're not big on sports.

No, not so much. Never ever. And no New England Patriots, no Boston Bruins. No, I grew up all around it and just never really drew. It never drew me in. I don't know. But I've always been super attracted to more like individual sports. Skateboarding BMX, UFC, all super interested in that.

But somehow the team sport thing never connected with me, even though on an intellectual level now, I can completely understand why sports are so fascinating. And a lot of the smartest poker players that I'm friends with and stuff have this extreme knowledge of sports and super fascinated by statistics and stuff. But somehow I never really sit in for me. You ever played with Phil Helmuth? I interviewed him, never played with him. Greatest guy.

Great guy. Incredible stories. Total psychopath. Nice guy. In the best way. Yeah. Out of his fucking mind. Well, great guy, but also when you see him sitting at the table and he's kind of like berating amateurs.

It's rough. That is very much looked down upon in poker. Is it a tactic, though? No, I think it's him just having a lack of emotional control. But it's like that is so looked down upon in poker. But for some reason, he gets a pass on. He's just like grandfathered into being a dick. He's that guy.

But when you're around him, he's so eccentric. that you can kind of understand that you're just going to give this guy a pass for almost anything. Without a doubt, because his social graces are not what, you know, the norm, let's say. You know, and I just always had a good time.

He's also like seven feet tall, which is like, really changes his presence in a room. Totally. He's got like a gigantism. He's got like, he's like huge. World Series of poker you play. Yeah, every year, but I've, I've yet to do any damage. But you said someone, who got far in someone you know?

Oh, it was Ray J's, uh, now ex-wife. Was it Princess Love? Is it her name, I think? she got like 40th place in like a huge tournament that was like statistically insanely unlikely you would ever make it that deep in the tournament and for me to see that ray jay's wife was doing that i was just like what the was that her first time in the was it a world series i don't know that much about her as a poker player but i guess she's got some skills yeah dang man i asked actually a very good poker player i know who's been associated with them i said how is she he said she's not bad he goes ray j on the other hand take his money I guess Ray Jays got a lot to learn.

Yo, I appreciate you so much for coming on, man. We should do this again some time. Adam, it's been a joy and a dream. I appreciate you, man. The No Jumper staff. Laura, amazing. You're lucky to have the folks you do. So I don't know if I'm supposed to say that or not.

No, no, no. No, I just appreciate the law. She's not like a shadow character. We're allowed to acknowledge her. I respect everybody's gangster. That's what I do. Yo, thank you so much, man. Huge amount of respect.

You're a fucking brilliant mind. Thank you, man. Best the Rock World has to offer. Matt, get you, man. Thank you so much, man. Thank you. Mark McGrath. Thank you. No, John Brick coolest podcast in the world. Like, comment, and subscribe. We out. Woo!