No Jumper - P. Frank Williams on Black on Black Crime, Hip Hop Homicides, 2pac & Biggie & More

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

P. Frank Williams talks about his illustrious career as a journalist and his milestones as a producer for The Source Awards, Unsung, Hip Hop Homicides with 50 Cent and more! ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Sharp Tank. No jumper. Sharpest, coolest podcast in the world. And today, I got a good man in the building like myself, because I consider myself a good man. All right. Things that I've been through, right, you know. But we have.

And I want to say this right, because I had to write this one down, because I was like, man, this man comes with a lot of titles. You know, when you got titles, man, you got a W-B-E-C-C-T. I don't know, but all that. Just call me a good man. No, man. You know, I got the co-director to the new series hip-hop homicides, man. That's crazy right there because I actually, I'm ready to catch that.

You ready to catch them joints, man. I'm ready to catch, like, just that whole new series. Okay. I got coming on out, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me what that was like, man, like with 50 Cent, just like working with that whole situation. Yeah, so, yeah, I'm the producer, executive producer,

showrunner of hip-hop homicide is the true crime one-hour show that airs on we TV every Thursdays and then re-airs on all-black on Mondays. It profiles like high-profile murders in hip-hop. We go through the situations, we investigate them. We also do a little bit of a biography. So it's like I do a show called Unsung. It's kind of like Unsung meets a true crime show, like American Gangster, which I also do. No, Van Lathan is the host. 50 Cent came up with the show. You know, obviously 50 himself is a gunshot survivor. and had, you know, a lot of the deaths in hip hop, unfortunately. And he knew Pop Smoke.

Pop Smoke was, if you listen to Pop Smoke, he's like a baby 50 Cent to some extent. And so when Pop got murdered, I think that really affected 50 in a big way. And that he was just horrified. Number one, to do was only 20 years old. And number two, he was suspicious about some of the circumstances that happened. So I think he hit up Mona Scott Young, who's a producer of love and hip hop. And together, you know, Moner was like, 50 said, hey, let's do a show about dead rappers.

And she was like, what? But no, then I took that concept and developed it and went on shot it with Van Lathen. So we shot these eight episodes which are airing now. The first episode was Pop Smoke. We just did King Vaughn. And tomorrow we have Magnolia Shorty. That's crazy, man, because I don't think anybody's even tapped into that yet. You know, we got all these other shows on mysteries and cold cases and things like that.

but I've noticed that when it comes to rappers, black men who rap, I feel like it kind of just, it has its little buzz through the community and we talk about it and things like that, but it never like, we don't never see them trying to solve that true crime. You know what I'm saying? Like just superly into it. Like, no, this is one we just got to figure out. I don't really see that.

So to see somebody like yourself and others, especially Van Lathen, that's my partner right there. I love him. I actually did an interview with him a while back. Okay. You know, just to see you guys come together, man, is that's phenomenal. I think the thing that's important is that, you know, a lot of times in law enforcement, I grew up in Oakland, California, before I started doing this, you know.

It was open to hell business. And I was reported to LA Times and I worked at the source. So I covered the murders of Tupac and Biggie in real life. I was really there at the hospital with, you know, the Tupac situation in Biggie. When that happened in Vegas? Yep. You was actually in the hospital? I was at the hospital, yep.

Wow. And when big, you know, all those source magazine cover stories from the 90s. 95, 96, Big Hip, Drey, I wrote all of those. So, I mean, I'm saying I've been cracking this for a while. So it took somebody like myself who actually had been on the front lines. And I think Van, who was a hip-hop, you know, connoisseur. Yes. And I think it's important for people from the culture to go still tell stories about people from the culture.

You know, because a lot of times these people look at our culture from the outside. We tell you a story from the inside. So, yeah, man, it was a tough show to do, my brother. And obviously the timing of it, which is really unfortunate, would take off. and some of the other situations that's happened recently with P&B Rock. And, you know, a lot of times, not the, you know, I don't know if you're on cursing here, but police is like, you know. You can't.

We don't want to solve that. That's just another nigga dead. Why do we care? I don't think they really wanted to solve the murder of Tupac Chouacore. No. Why? Black rapper talking about anti-police stuff. Do you think they want to solve that?

No. So I think that we really wanted to try to make sure that you know Pop Smoke is a man, that you know Mo 3 or, you know, Exxentatiano or somebody else we profile. I think in the media you only see one-dimensional portraits of these guys. They loud, they got guns. They wild. They deserved what happened to them. But these are fathers,

cousins, sons. You know what I mean? These are real human beings. And so that's what I'm in it for, to make sure that our brothers and sisters get humanized. That is some of the realest shit I ever heard. Like, just even for it, because you just hit it right on the head. Like, it's just another, to them, it's just another nigga dead that played the game. And yes, okay,

people do make decisions. I get that part. But to just let it just go. It's crazy to me because, like you said, these are fathers, these are uncles, these are sons. You know, these are people that had whole families that may have depended on them, just like basketball players. You know, when their life gets changed, it's the same thing for a rapper. He's going to start taking care of his family.

He makes sure his whole family can eat. He's the breadwinner. He's the breadwinner, man. He's really looking out for all of these people. And I think, you know, one of the things, about the show, which is deep, and, you know, because I was at the hospital with Tupac. As I mentioned, to see Afini, I think you don't realize that the mothers in these situations on every episode we did, we did Pop Smoke, X-Xentatio, Mo3, Soldier Slim, Magnolia Shorty,

Chinks. I don't know if you're familiar with Chinks. New York Cat, right? New York Cat. So we got to talk to all the mothers. And, you know, some of these mothers are still in pain. FBG Duck, a rapper in Chicago got killed like in the... Broad daylight.

Downtown Chicago. Yes, we went to where he got killed. And his mother has multiple kids of hers and got murdered. So a lot of times our communities, there's a collective trauma in hip hop right now. I think that we, it's unfortunate that we've gotten used to the grief as if this is supposed to be this way. But it's not, I don't need to be talking to eight moms whose sons are 20 years old, 21 years old, at the peak of their thing. You know, you finally made it, right? And then you become a target.

I think the rapper now is the target. You know, back when I grew up in a mix, the rapper was. the rapper was celebrated you know what I mean he was like oh man I'm about to go see big daddy kane oh wow is that E40 well I'm I have to say this to you for real frank and I think about it you know when I was growing up I listened to drug dealers these days they're listening to drug users correct so it's a very very big difference in the demographic of what rap has even became overall right and anything that's bad if you feed it to a motherfucker long enough it starts to get normalized. It starts to become

normal and I think that's for anybody. Just like you said, like yeah, we get pushed into this corner, you know, to where you know, what comes with rap? Guns, violence, you know, jewelry, whatever. You know, they classify it, man. They throw all these, oh, well, the good

things is the jewelry. The good things is the cars, but they don't let you know, man, this motherfucker might really have a problem with you just for you being you. Right. And pop your motherfucking ass. And there's a lot of hate. You know, and I, one thing I discovered after during this show, which I think, you know, I said this a couple of times. The people, the man that killed Tupac had a personal problem with Tupac, right? He had whatever beef they had had. Biggie

was situations that people might have known him. Whatever was, you know, police, puff, should, whatever is connected. That man who shot P&B Rock walked into the middle of a restaurant of Roscoe's in the middle of the day to take his chain, never met him, had no beef with him, no rap, nothing. There's a lot of clout chasing, a lot of just lack of respect for black life. and I think that that's the difference now than what was happening in. I love these co-vows today. Keep going, bro.

Out of pocket, you know, and I think as OG, I'm like, take your time. They don't have no cold, no ethic, and just, you're going to go, walk into Orozco's in the middle afternoon and this man is eating with his woman and eating, you know, some chicken and waffles and murder him, and your daddy is waiting outside

to take you in a car. You know, that's problematic. That's a big problem, my brother. What I feel like was sick is because it's back on, and this is to piggyback what you said before. that where like after a while gets normalized, right? It was crazy to hear that the people that were working in there and the people that were eating just kept eating their chicken.

Black folks in there was just kept eating their chicken. People just kept working. It didn't, yeah. They said nobody really like made a move. Like to where it was like, oh my God, this is traumatic. This man's on the ground. That Ross goes is in the hood, unfortunately. And it is obviously acted.

But it's all been normalized. You know what I'm saying? To where it's like, just like you said, that's normalizing it. Well, it's in the hood. Right. You know what I'm saying? That's the first thing that I have to disagree in that We should not set the bar that low to think that that's okay Right if he got popped in it if he got shot the fucking Roskos and Beverly Eels are we gonna say the same thing? Well, it was the area

Well, all I know if imagine if these pop stars were being killed like these rappers don't you think it'll be a crisis in America Once it became the opioid Then it became a problem when it was crack and other drugs it wasn't because you know why? Because black people in Latino We was dying right but now once the white kids and the mainstream, whatever. Racism is just reality of it. And I think, you know, it's funny. Do you think that people put themselves in that situation by what we rap about and what

we sing about? Should we be, you know, if we bring it about, you know, murders and guns and, you know, doing whatever, does that mean that we deserve that? To answer this is we sing about it. I only feel like, I feel like we sing about it or we chant about it. Because I feel like it's all chance, right? Raps is like chance, man. You can bring that shit to existence.

You know, we chant about it because it sells. It's what sells, man. Everybody's only going to do what sells. They're not trying to be left out in the dark. So if me talking about popping this nigger on this street and then going to his house or his grandmama's house and shooting his grandmama's house up going to make me a millionaire tomorrow,

that nigger's going to talk about it. Correct. I've noticed that shit. Even if he would never do it, it still starts that fake beef. And I feel like anything that's fake and always turn back real. You know what I'm saying?

So when I hear him up and just even though he didn't mean it, I heard it in a song, I seen somebody come around somebody that I saw was, he's really scared of this man. And then this man didn't do nothing, showed him mercy. The man went back and made a song about him. It's shit like that. You know what I'm saying? That gets just let off the, like, just like it's because it's for cloud. It's a, I can say it. It's bad, man.

And I was bad to that. One of the things that's different is, A, the cloud chasing, like an amount of young man and women. on the internet with guns and the fact that social media beef, like I never, you know, the 90s, I never heard of no internet beef, but motherfuckers can be beefing on the internet. NBA young boy and the brother young, King Vaughn, who he just profiled, their beef started online. Somebody was like, yo, NBA young boy is whack,

and then they went back and forth and a girl is involved. It seems so petty to lose your life over just internet chatter to me, you know what I mean? Or you did this and you said that. It's so, wow. Well, let's think about this. Back in the day, it was more of a word of a mouth. Today, like, everybody's got something to say so it don't get let go. It's like, you got to do something.

There's going to be all these comments. People are going to troll you. It's a sense of harassment, right? It's like, oh, you better do some. I knew you was a bitch. I knew you wasn't going to do that. That's what gets pressed. So now this person feels like when I see this person, I got to do something.

Versus a lot of situations, my man, can be. talk through or communicated through, but people don't do that. You know, you hit the nail on the head is that one of the things that I discovered, not just doing hip hop and being hip hop for a minute, but just in black society in general. Of course. I did another show called Profile of the Black Man. Was it about? It was about stereotypes about black men, black men or violent.

They don't support their family, whatever, just tackle the stereotypes. But there is a lack of conflict resolution skills in our community that the young, when Takeoff got shot, they was beefing over a dice game. And allegedly one of the young boys just started popping off and maybe that stray hit him or whatever. But we don't know how to talk through things. And not to say about other races are better, but you don't see my lawyer or my agent or people in, you know,

dealing with business. If they got beef, these folks, they go to court. They go to courts. That's that shit, man. You could be my boy and we was in business and you did whatever. You might have did something to my wife. I don't care. But these folks don't go out and kill each other.

So we don't have the ability. when King Vaughn got killed, he saw Cuando Rondo, a young boy. He had, you know, one of NBA's young boys doos and had B-foot and immediately hit him, right? As soon as he hit him, he jumped out the car, they started scrapping, and the whole crew started scrapping. And then one of Cuando Rondo's boys shot King Vonn. That moment where he lost his temper and hit that brother cost him his life in real life. Right?

And so we, I don't know what else to do. When Tupac's are cool, who I loved to death, loved him to death, too, brother. Lost his temper in that particular situation with the young man who everybody knows pretty much shot him. It had drastic consequences for him. Not shortly after that. He got killed.

So what I'm saying is, how do we mitigate disagreements or beefs amongst us or whatever so that we can either, you know, like old school, fight it out, or do we just talk? I don't know, but I just, there was a crisis where we, and a lot of these boys, they got guns, right? And they own drugs. They own ink.

They off Percocet. They off Xanis. They're doing whatever. They hyped up. They got weapons. You know what I mean? It's a volatile mix is what I'm trying to say. So I'm about prevention, but I really don't know.

Maybe you got to answer. Well, I feel like it starts with what you just said, that chemical imbalance. Being on these things that are, man, this ain't weed and alcohol. I mean, shit, I know we tricked off weed and alcohol, muvel because you say, you can tell your uncle, man, watch your brown liquor. Right, right, right, right. You know, ease up on it some. You know, you're getting a little too loose.

I can't really tell you. you what people are thinking the ones that be on drugs like that, the heavy narcotics, I can't tell you that because I've never been on that. I've never done those so I don't know what really pushes some people just to whether it's you're coming down and you just want to

trip. I'm like, I've never watched so many people, especially rappers. I've never watched so many people with so much money want to stay in the bullshit. I've never understood that I thought we were trying to get some money so we can get out and get on and get

a better fucking place. It's like now we're just going to a better place. You know what I'm saying? It's scary. People, you make it and you want to be even more gangster. The point for me, as a person who came from the hood is like, I want to get up out of the hood. I'm not trying to go back, you know, no disrespect to Shug, but Shug was a middle-class kid, and as soon as he got some bread, he tried to take it to the gangster when he should

have been Barry Gordy instead of trying to be a thug. You know what I mean? I think it's just unfortunate. I think for my show and other stuff that I've done, I'm hoping that we can increase the dialogue in our community. Do you feel like Tupac did that? And I'll give you an example. By with you know, I mean, his mom,

his parents were some powerful people if it sound like, man, Black Panthers, you know, they had that, you know, that background on their back and he would stand up, you know, and he would politic. And I love Tupac, bro, but I have to look at it. I have to play devil's advocate a little bit here because I'm like, okay,

I love Pock to death. I listen to every I've listened to every album he ever dropped, man. Song for song, word for word. Then I start to think about it like he would push these politics. And I love that about him. That part of it I loved, I'd be like, man, he really standing up for us. But then I would see him go spit on people. Thug life.

Fuck you. I'm jumping everybody. It's killer be killed. Last motherfucker breathing. You know what I'm saying? Like he used to like he jumped on a whole different demographic with it to where it's like, you think them people was good. They couldn't wait for him to go.

Correct. It has to come to a point, man. Tupac should have been a lesson There should have been a lesson in that man You know what I'm saying And that's where the true blessing is found He showed you hey man When you've really touched those roads

You gotta transition You have to transition And I want all my brothers to know that man When you feel that and you know that small Any ass fucking window it came to me From what I've came from My backgrounds man and me seeing that Any ass fucking window

You gotta jump through it and you've got to dumb your ass down. It's okay to be humble sometimes. I like being a square. Like, you know, it's good. Like, you know, the point is you can't be in the streets and be in music. You've got to pick one. Once you, and 50 will tell you, you know, you can see his career trajectory.

He almost got killed. And so I think he knew, let me transition. And you can't be in those places that you used to be, right? You can't be in those streets. You can't be in a situation where there's guns and girls and crazy shit that you know is going to happen. So I think that a lot of times we don't. we think we got to bring our hood with us. We got to stay in the street to be hard, to be whatever.

You should be like, well, how can I become a senior citizen? That's your goal in life. To be able to not die in 25. You know what I mean? Tupac Shakur was 25 years old. Christopher Wallace was 24 when he got murdered. Pop Smoke was only 20. XX Enstation was 20 years old.

I think Mo 3 was 28. These men that even make it to 30 years old. And it's sad. But I think, for me, I just want to be. want to keep encouraging and making sure that we tell our own stories and just like you guys with your podcast and all of that. But there is a, there's, shit is crazy, bro, on the street right now. Even me, I'm not in front of the camera, but I be, I'm, I watch myself, you know, I was out in the club in Atlanta about a month ago and, uh, I got my little bill and I was, I need to have my drink

in the bill, my food and I sat my drink down on the table. It was like a little booth. Mufferfuck God, he was like, hey, you put your drink on my table. You know, get your, you know, it just went off of me. And I was like, dude, I just want to sign the bill. He's like, I was like, man, what are you talking about? And my first thought was like, what? And I almost went there. But I was like... It's not where you're from, it's where you at.

Right. But I was like... I always had that on the back of your mind. And I was like, I'm in a foreign city. He might have something in the car. Right? I don't know who's in here with him. Right?

And I got a lot to lose, right? Because I do what I do. He may not have shit to lose. So when you know situations, you got to just be careful. I have the wisdom to do that. But sometimes other people don't have that wisdom. And I think our brothers and sisters just need to be smarter. I've been there.

Yeah. I'm not a victim. I am suspect to that because I've done that. You know what I'm saying? To where like, hold on, I don't really need to have myself because I've been hot-headed through shit. I don't like to be tested. I don't like that.

I think it's probably because I've been tested so much coming up through life as a youngster to where I'm like, as I've gotten older, I'm like, man, I'm not getting tested even for the little bit. You know what I'm saying? But past the showrunner, director, things like that. For Frank, what was it like for you? coming up, man, because you seem like you got an interest in this story just for you even understanding

what's going on with society today. What was it like for you as a youngster? Well, no, I mean, like I mentioned, I grew up in Oakland, California, in the 70s, 80s. I saw Felix Mitchell, notorious drug dealer from Oakland. I saw Huey Newton and Bobby Seal in real life. I saw the Black Panther Party in my hood, you know, so I grew up in a city that had a really cultural legacy, black power, black, you know, militancy, but also had street life. Oakland is a very street-oriented, obviously crimes and, you know, cracks and drugs. And it was a very bad time in the late 80s. I'm a little older than you.

But we went through that late 80s, early 90s, crack situation, and it decimated our community. So as much as I grew up in that, I was blessed because I had education. So I went to Columbia and San Diego State, so I got degrees. So I'm like a, you know, I'm a street cat with Hollywood game. And so I make sure that I can speak. You know, I have a friend.

I told him I speak white people, you know. And so, you know, white people whispered. And so it's just important to be able to have balance. able to have balance. So for me, I'm always been about balance. And the way I actually got into telling, you know, I'm a storyteller. People say I'm a producer, right, or whatever, but I really just tell stories. And so when I was a young and, you know what I'm saying, with the afro and the glasses, you know, back in, you know, the early 80s when I was just trying to come of age, I got my first start telling stories. All of the D-boys and the gangsters in my hood

couldn't write love letters for their ladies. So, you know, Tyrone be like, hey, you know, I want a letter for Keisha, you know, tell her, you know, how I feel. I'd be like, yeah, tell me how She looked, what she'd do, you know, blah, blah. So I write their letters for them. And they gave me a little 15, 20 bucks. You know, I was caking. I was caking like 100, you know, got to hustle something.

Yeah, and so I would, you know, they give it to the girl. It was from them, even though I wrote it. So, yeah, so that's how I got started, telling those stories. And, you know, television film has always been my thing. And, you know, hip-hop. I grew up around hip-hop, and I've been blessed to, you know, have 30 years in it from the stories to BT and all of that. So, yeah, man, I'm a street cat, but Hollywood, you know, at the same time, you know.

Hollywood gangster. as a nonsense. I feel like real ones, the ones that really make it of our kind, just ones that came from the street, from the block, you always learn

to do what you was good at to get some money. Don't try to do what the next person doing. I never wanted to look up to this person and be like, oh, well, they're doing it. You know what I'm saying? That might not necessarily work for me. And I think, you know, some of the younger crowd

because I love them, man. I want them to understand just, I don't give a fuck what y'all do. Right. Do what you're great at, though. Correct. Don't get caught in the mix on something. Because like I said, you'd fuck around and catch yourself 50 years for some shit you was just trying out because you saw somebody else do it and you saw it work for them.

If you feel like that's in you to do it, okay, cool. But I feel like 90% of the population do it because they just saw some shit. I had a friend. It's a trip you said that because, you know, when you grew up in those environments, it's short term and long term, right? You see the D-boy, he's making money. The girls like it. In my city, he got the Chevy, got the Mustang. He balling.

He's, you know, caking up out the pocket. Nine times out of ten, most of those dudes that I grew up with got murdered and went to jail. So they didn't have, they didn't have to go to college and try to do stuff. And they didn't think about, you know, that it's a marathon, not a sprint. So I think some of the times a short-term philosophy in our environments where the quick money, I had a buddy name Leonard, who I grew up in my block in an area of Oakland called Fung Town Murder Dubs. And Square Duke, beautiful mom, family. Everything's good, right? He's like taking care of. Wanted to be hard. You know, you know the story

is going. Wanted to be hard. Wanted to be down, show that he's a gangster. Ended up getting caught up in some stuff. Ended up going to jail for 30-something years for shooting somebody and some drugs. This was a square. Like his mother, pick Pete, like, you would have loved to have had his family and his mother, but he wanted to be a gangster so bad because he thought that it was cool when he would get girls. And that decision almost cost him most of his life in jail. So, you know, you just got to make the decision right and left and so as you say you know sometimes you know and my partner Earl 40 Water he got a I'm called practice looking hard and some of these castes you know they practice and looking hard they're in the mirror you know want to

be a gangster I want to talk to you about him but I got a story for you too man and I feel like this and I'm gonna cut it short quick but you know I was a former pimp man that was that was my profession that's why I mean shit you from Oakland so you should already know it was a little bit of an around I mean, shit, I was waiting for one of them stories to come up, but it didn't. Yeah, so I was at my boy, Kenny Redd. I was at a funeral. Yeah, that's my love one.

I went buried him in Richmond. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was there, I threw roses on his grade. That was a real good friend of mine, man. Like, you know what I'm saying? I talked to. You know, my girl, Jody Matinton. Jody, she's a white, you know, lady who has young ladies and situations and you know

I mean, you know my boy Percy, right? My boy Pee, Percy. But I'll tell you this, man, like, you know, just with the, with the game. and everything and like like I said I was for me you I'm saying I used to man it's my past I've moved forward but I think what it is is I've learned that same with like people you say been to jail they die you know I didn't want to be either one of them man I had to figure out a transition because I knew if I stayed relying on just holes especially me getting older man I'm a lose right okay I'm a lose man if I just if that's all I'm on now and like that's what I don't even want to deal

with that no more. I don't even want to be by that no more because I know if that's all I'm relying on today in 2022, man, coming on 2023, I know I'm not going to, I'm a lose, bro. I'm going to die off. I'm going to die off quick. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I'm like, well, shit, man, I got to make the transition somewhere for myself because that ain't where I want to be. I got to be able to do it for myself too, man. And I've noticed a lot of people are starting to pick that up. And I just hope even some of my people from, you know, my backgrounds or the things that I've done or we've done or just whatever the case may be

can pick up something too that they love, man. I just hope that I'm a piece of inspiration to it and not failure. Right. But I think that, you know, I think Jay-Z talks about how you're here to discover your destiny and whatever your passion is

and live that out and do that. You know what I mean? Ryan Cougler, Free Street to Oakland became a director. You know what I mean? Too short, when I used to see him on the bus, he learned how to rap, and now he's turned that to being an icon.

So, no, I mean, I'm just, I'm blessed. You know, I'm a storyteller. I did it in the magazines, newspapers, L.A. Times, and now I'm telling stories on TV. So same thing. How'd you know E-40? You know, you say Earl.

Earl, I'm from the Yeh. And so, you know, they say nothing but yay, flowing through my veins. I knew Earl because I used to produce the Source Hip-Hop Music Awards. And so I produced Earl on that. He was doing some VO. And I just met him, you know,

because I was at the Source in the 90s. And I also produced his Unsung. If you guys are familiar with the show, Unsung, I produced that about E-40. I went back to Vallejo with him and I know his family and, you know, we're cool and too short the same thing. So, you know, we all from the same soil. It was Earl's birthday yesterday. Shout out, happy birthday, Earl. Hey, man. And you're getting up there, Pimp, but you still, you still Charlie Hustle, man.

I just want you to know. Even like you said, okay, that's cool. You say you a little older to me. And I love that to death. But I always respected the ones that was older than me, church. That's why I could sit back and even take that, you know, even you saying that to me. But man, shit, you know, I'm starting to get into the veteran rings now, man. My shit turning gray, Jack. You know what I'm saying? I'm just for me and the best. I don't want to be working, but I got to put a little bit out of that.

I feel like, you know what, man? I've let my grades go because I feel like, you know, it just shows a part of my wisdom. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just a part of my wisdom, man. Some of the things that I've been through. That's crazy. Do you say, man, shout out to Kenny Red.

Like I said, I was just there with him. Well, shit. I'd seen him a while back. But I was just there, man, for his funeral, man. That was my partner. I had a hell of a day that day too, man, trying to get there. But I made sure I made it there, man. We buried him up there in Richmond.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's up to Kenny Red, one of the real ones. He's in the two short, unsung talking about the peak. Because, you know, we're from the town. It's a lot of Pete. That's why I say it comes with it. It just comes with it.

It's culture, man. It's not because motherfuckers is glorifying that. It's just a part of the Oakland culture, you know, and that's why I've always showed love, man, pay homage. Like, man, shit. Kenny Red, he was one of the concrete. general. Yes, for sure. You know, he was, man. Go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for you, but for you, man, like I like where you're going with just even your mindset and how you even look at trying to,

well, I'm about to do this, man, let's do this hip-hop homicide, man, let's like really dig deep. I've already been following these stories. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like yourself, you're saying, I've already been following these stories and things like that. I've been on the two-pop. But it's a trip now to see somebody was, when we were talking about this the other day, hip hop is now the predominant drama, the number one drama on the planet, right? And a lot of young people today, they can't imagine the world where hip hop wasn't on the American Music Awards, why it wasn't on the Grammys, why it was on every radio station, right? I grew up on a time when hip-hop was played on a Saturday.

I'm like, one to four or in the morning, right? And you had to find it, and the R&B radio has never played hip-hop. I was at the Grammys when, you know, met the man was backstage or, you know, didn't want to go to the show and boycott it, or Will Smith boycott it because they didn't want to put us behind the air. ask you a question. That's crazy. You brought him up. I want to ask you as just a real connoisseur to it and being around these high profile people. How did you feel about Will Smith slapping Chris Rock? You try to get me out there. I told you on Main Street, Hollywood, man. I don't want nobody. I mean, she said your mainstream. Yeah, but I'm just saying, no, I think

I was totally out of pocket. You know, you never put your hands on nobody else. I don't give a damn what you do. There's no reason unless somebody's putting my life in jeopardy or touching my family or no loved ones, and especially as black men, we already got so many issues to deal with Hollywood and media. And Will was out of pocket for that. He, you know, whatever his inspiration or whatever the situation, especially one of the biggest nights of your life, I think after that, Denzo Washington said, God's test you at those biggest moments. And I think he, he lost it. You know, I've been around Willka, but totally good guy. You can see for his life what he's done. We all lose it. But I think that he was totally out of pocket. And me, honestly, if Will would have

put his hands on me, we toss him right there. I'm about to get Jada too. If Jada's trying to get in it, she's going to get something too, you know what I mean? comedian so you're like, hold on, man. I was like, I'm not going to wow you. I'm not going to be, did he just slap me in the face? And maybe, maybe he's Chris's philosophy was like, well, you know, I'm going to get a check out of it

later or I'm going to use it for leverage, but yeah, I mean, I think he was out of pocket, you know, but again, well, don't, don't try that on a 6, 240 black man. I believe that. I believe that. Yeah. I believe that this show is going to take off

in a major way, especially because you got your hands in it, because I like your outlook to it and the way that you know you want to present it to the public. I just had another gentleman in here by the name of E. Love, and we was just talking about it, and I was like, you know, he's coming out with a documentary and talking about modern day slavery or modern slavery, you know, and just things like that.

And I'm like, okay, we're on to something. Everybody's trying to get, like, because I feel like our culture, the black culture. You know, I'm black and white, man. You know, just so you know, just to get, you know, our culture, I feel like we do kind of get thrown to the corner when it's deaths or, you know, it's people that like we were talking about earlier, you know, these people took care of families, you know, and they're family members. Correct. And for it to all be swept under the rug, I don't see the detective really jumping down, man. And just, you know, going and doing it so hard as he might do for Thomas or Ralphie or, you know what I'm saying?

Somebody in that sense, I don't really see it. It's true. It's a little different. I mean, we're only facing the facts here. At that point, it's no longer an opinion. This is things that we see. Right. And one thing I'll say about that,

which is the most unfortunate is that nine times out of ten, it's us killing us, right? Yeah, it is. And in my mentality, you can't argue about the white man there's to say the white man did that if you pulled the trigger, if you killing your brothers and sisters. You can say about it.

Whatever, but you did that. You know what I mean? And so I think that that's the negative part that we need to, to change. And the media obviously plays a part. You know, you're in the media now, even though you're hosting a more kind of like unorthodox show. I do think

the media cares a little bit more than when I was in the 90s doing that because I think social media has forced like for instance, in the case of Pop Smoke and King Vaughn, there's all these internet threads and Reddit that cover it. And so some of the stuff that was done. Fuck ready. Yeah, I don't know.

Fuck ready. You fuck, you fuck it. Fuck Reddit. I don't fuck Reddit. I don't fuck Reddit. You fuck Reddit. You fuck Reddit. Fuck ready. Fuck ready. Reddy can suck my dick. But some of the work that they did online

helped get the information about the case and lead and get some clues. So I'm saying, I think that social media and some of these online bloggers and stuff, they may be wild and they don't always got the proof, but they definitely have helped solve shit

that police could give a fuck about, right? Because they want, these are our rap hills. Police don't care about these guys. Yeah. Yeah, no, police don't care about it. I mean, you know, nine times out of ten, somebody will put the information

all up on the internet because everybody, that's a way of everybody telling these days, the internet. The internet, and they'll tell it in so many ways, even without them saying they're telling. Right. You know what I'm saying? Oh, I was there that night. DM me for the info. It'd be some stupid shit.

You know what's a true. When I saw, you know, when I saw take off, unfortunate brother lost his life, somebody was filming that instead of trying to help this brother. Where does your mind come when you see this young? man laying there, you know, bleeding like that. And your first instinct is to pull up your phone. Can I be real with you? It's a big going on.

Right. Somebody I knew of in San Diego. It's like, remember when the boy got popped at the rallies? Popped at the rallies, right, in the parking lot. People are walking by filming, there's somebody standing over him. Oh, shit. With a phone. You know what I'm saying?

And this ain't to take from takeoff's death. Man, RIP to take off, hey, man, I've loved your music for a while man I watched y'all when y'all was on your way to blowing I was in Tennessee watching them so I really in a small ass spot so like this wouldn't know you can go up and touch like it's nothing you know so it's love to him

but just to show that it's been going on it shouldn't have to take a big name it shouldn't have to take a person that okay his music was loved by all man this man was probably he was loved by his family and his

daughter he left daughters behind and the sun's behind. Like that shit just goes under the rug. This shit's been going on. Let's not just wait until somebody with a big name. We need to have Takeoffs, Death Man, be a real lesson of what's going on. I don't know, brother. I don't think that people are learning.

I think that it's just getting worse. No, we just morning and it's, oh, my God. It's, oh, my God. And then two weeks later, we're back to fucking normal scheduled fucking programage. Yep. This shit is sick. You know, but man, I'm glad, like I say, you mentioned me. You know, I want to make sure that these kind of stories get out there.

And I think, you know, a lot of times we don't get to tell our own stories. As a person of color who works on shows, you know, sometimes what people are. The people making it usually aren't people of color. Feel me? Imagine if somebody was going to tell your story and some Scottish white boys like, hey, let me tell his story. And he's like, well, you're like, what? This one of me don't know where I'm at. So I think it's important that, you know, people like Van and myself tell these stories, you know,

whether it be the 90s or Shug or Tupac or Biggie or whatever stories that I've done, Dr. Dre, it makes a difference that you come talk to me and we can share a likeness because you speak a certain code in a language that I might not deal with somebody else. When we did this show, being able to go into these environments and gaining the trust of the mothers, the friends, you know, because we got the no snitching. We ain't talking to the police, right? We ain't going to say whatever. So I think a lot of them felt more comfortable telling their stories. And, you know, unfortunately we had an event the other night in New York with 50 and Mona. And 50 said something which I didn't know, even though I produced the show, that there's over 600 murders connected to hip hop.

And I was like, oh, shit. And I was like, you know, I was like, yeah, but he started to name him. And when I looked at it, it wasn't obviously just the rappers, but, you know, their manager or the homie or whatever. And it's just, it's unfortunate. You know, I could do 10 seasons of hip hop homicides. Speaking of other people picking up stories and saying, let me do. do it. As a showrunner, director, mogul,

have you ever had in the industry when you're standing behind cameras? Have you ever had anybody come up on you and try to kind of undermine you? Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, because of, you know, being black. You know what I'm saying? I'm not about being black, but I've had a situation. Let's be real. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I had different on a situation. One situation I could think about, um, it's so funny. Uh, I was produced a show called Who Killed Tupac on A&E with Ben Crump. Ben Crump is a lawyer for, uh, Brianna Taylor and George Floyd. Trayvon. And so we were at the studio, and

Chuck D, from Public Enemy, was there, and he used to be in a, it was Chuck D, Be Real, and Tom from, anyway, he was a group. And so we went there to interview Chuck about Tupac. So Chuck is doing the rehearsal room right over here, right? And he's like, did this interview because I knew him. And so he's like, you know, let us finish

whatever, and I'll get to you to meet a few minutes, just hold him for like 20 minutes. So I was like, thankful that the OG, like Chuck D, you know, just to say yes. And the young white boy who I was in the showrunner, at that time. I was like, no, I don't care. We're just going to leave. And I was like, this is Chuck D. Like you,

but he didn't get the importance of who this man was. And Tupac, by the way, had written Chuck in jail and telling, that was his, Tupac's hero. You know, he wrote a lot of people. I noticed. That was his icon, Chuck D. And so the point of it is when the white boy was like, no, we're

going to leave. I was like, no, we ain't leaving. Right? And I was like, we ain't leaving. And he was like, well, I don't care. You know, whatever. I was like, no, man, everybody's staying. And then he was like, you can't talk to me that way. And I was like, what? And he got scared as hell, right? Because he just did not from that environment.

And that was my initial reaction because that's where I came from and conditioned. Do you know in that particular situation later on, the building security from the company I was working for, they tried to get security on the floor. They told me I couldn't come. They said he was afraid for his life that I threatened him, that, you know, I'm dangerous. What happened to you from that shit? No, I mean, I finished the show, but I couldn't work in that actual floor anymore because he was afraid of me. never put hands on the man never insinuated that you even had a problem with him but that was disrespectful

in that moment so you asked me in a situation there's been a situation where somebody was out of pocket yeah he was totally out of pocket you know me and shug got at it a few times because shug you know if you look at some of the cover stories that shug would say stuff eddie murphy michael jackson prince he was saying all kind of you don't know the history but shug was out of pocket saying some of the stuff he said tell us about the and so he just you know he he used his pulpit to disressee, like he was saying he was the most gangsters. And I didn't think it was appropriate for him to be saying that stuff. And if I put it in print and in a magazine out to the world, that's giving it credibility, right?

And so me challenging him like, yo, that's not cool, was problematic. He liked it, I think, that somebody wasn't afraid of him, but I guess he didn't like being censored. And so, you know, we got into it a couple of times. And I think we respect each other now and it's good. and I'm praying for him where he's at and obviously some of his life decisions put him in that situation. But yeah, I had beef.

Me and Methamon almost got into it one time because I think he thought, you know, I'm a writer, hip-hop writer and I was a punk. And I'm like, no, no, homie. You ain't go get all crazy talking to me like that. You know what I mean? So, yeah, you know, I'm just careful.

I don't have no beef with people, but, you know, if something starts, then we're going to have to, you know. So you're saying you've been, you like working with people. You know, but you can get where people could take their star power and try to overpower. Yes, of course. It's Hollywood.

Come on. It's Hollywood. And that can be hip-hop, fucking R&B, it can be a white movie or whatever. And you always got to treat people with respect and whatever else and you don't ever want to do that. So that's all I'm about, just people with respect and don't use your place. You know, it's funny because when I was at the L.A. Times back in the day when I was covering a lot of hip-hop and murder and all that. L.A. Times is a big magazine. No.

Very big, newspaper rather. Excuse me, yes, newspaper. But nonetheless, that was a very, that was a very grown newspaper to be fucking weird. And at the time, it was a trip because there was a writer, my boy Chuck Phillips, who I love, you know, good guy, he did some kind of reporting. I was a little questionable, but he could write whatever.

White boy, if I wrote something, Billy Johnson, my homeboy, my publicist is a writer from rap pages and known each other. They don't care about him. But when they see me, they're like, yo, what's up? I heard you? Like, there's an approach to me as a black man in hip-hop that they would have given to the white.

like, boy, whatever, right? Because it's still, they think that if I say something as a writer, if I don't review their album correctly, they can step to me. Which is not, it should never be that way. I'm a cultural critic. Like, if you don't like what I wrote, they don't give you a reason to beat me up or try to shoot me. You being a writer, is this, can we say that you can,

we can consider some of the things that you've been a part of, short films, because I noticed that a lot of writers, that are writers, they'll start to jump into short films. Do you feel like you've transitioned, and grown to something like that? Oh yeah, I mean, I've already been. You know, as I mentioned in the 90s, I started in LA Times,

and I think that's where I met Billy, and then obviously I went to the source and the first West Coast editor-source. So I went from print journalism to producing documentaries, American gangster, unsone, you know, whatever. So, yes, I still, but it's still me telling a story.

Yeah. You know, it's the same thing, because a rapper is a storyteller too, right? And so whatever I put on TV is the same shit that I put in a newspaper or in a magazine, I'm just using a camera now, right? So I'm still telling you, story in the same form.

So yeah, I mean, that's the day. I mean, newspapers is dead, magazines, it's print, whatever. That's the new hustle. It's interesting to talk to a real writer. Like, because y'all start to, like, hop into, like I said, short story, short film type of ordeals. You know, not even have to be documentary style,

but it could be just like this, for instance, like my buddy, he wrote like a real horror, gory one, like, but it's real short, but it's sweet. You know what I'm saying? It gets down to the meat and potatoes in the situation, There's real great writers out there, and I noticed that y'all tried to, like, all right, I've done this, I've wrote for this,

like now it's time to maybe bring my words to life. Right. No, it's good, it's good that I was able to transition from that world into television and film. I think a lot of the people from my generation, you know, the 90s, hip hop and early 2000s have now went into that one of my boy, Carlito, he worked on Empire, my boy sell when he was in a bunch of stuff.

You know, so a lot of us from that time, Billy, my boy's doing for, but I'm just a storyteller, man. You know, you know that little kid that was in your hood and be like the ghetto reporter? They'd be like, oh yeah, I saw Keisha. Keisha left with Tyrone. Oh, man, the last Thursday he owed him $300.

You know, I was, you know, I had the glasses. I peeped game. So I'm always been like a ghetto reporter, you know. Yeah. I mean, you've worked with BET, right? Yeah. Done things like that. I mean, I wouldn't want to say that's ghetto.

No, but I'm saying when I came up, I was in an urban environment and I was just reporting what was going on. That's the best. But I'm saying now, now more mainstream television, A&E and, you know, VH1 and whoever else. But it's still the same thing. But a lot of people were afraid to tell them stories. You ever notice that, like, for real? A lot of people were, that's, oh, I'm not going to go there to go tell them.

So, like, you lived in it. Right. But I think that it's good that, you know, FBG Duck, who you mentioned, got shot in the Gold Coast. Yeah. We went to Chicago, talked to his family, his mother. And, you know, we went to Oblock where, because I don't know if you know, but people in Chicago know, Tuccoville and O Block are at war. Like in Chicago, these motherfuckers been killing each other for GDs,

you know, BDs, whatever. And so going to O Block where our brothers and sisters, like a block or two divides you. I don't know if you know about Chicago. Yeah, I'll stay there a little bit. There's people who can't go past that block. Their whole life. And if they get caught slipping, that's whatever.

So it took people like me and Van to go there and kind of have a pass and be able to walk in there and tell those stories because those are still beautiful. people, right? They're just in the hood. They might be in a project. That don't mean that their lives aren't valid, that they're not important. It's just that the government and the media has told you to be afraid of these people. I'm

never want to get to the place. I'm afraid of my own people. I still got to be smart, but I want to make sure we tell our stories. You know what I mean? Sidney Portier, somebody like that, Harry Belafonte, these are the guys that I look up to Chuck D, folk like that, you know, who are doing it, Reggie Hudling. You know what I mean? So it takes

us to tell her own, like right today, you've got a whole podcast, you're doing your shit. You're telling a stories of the culture right you using a mic yeah you was using your mouthpiece when you was you know with the P yeah for you mean and so you just took that mouthpiece that you had in you know what I mean tweaked it and you ain't got to deal to the jail sentence after I've considered myself which I'm gonna write a book from Pippin to Pottom you know man and just sitting back man that's going to tell your book yeah chopping it up man and just things I've done seen man things that

you know just my experience Man, you know, I just hope people can take something from it. But I think if you see the game, I can only imagine if I look back at your life and I put a camera on the land with a little 20-year-old you, to the man that you are today, there's probably some great stories. One of my friends actually did. Okay. A man by the name of Michael Moroy. He used to actually do two real for TV.

Okay. I don't know if you ever heard of it before, but the name is it's moved around. I mean, shit, he's done, he's done some dope things, like, and he's captured this and he captured me a while back in one of his videos that, me and we had captured some years ago when I was young, me and a Red Shevel, you know, it actually, man, shot up today, you know, because it's from back then.

People want to see so, and he passed away. You know what I'm saying? Michael Roy passed away, man. Shout out to him, man. I'm going to love him to death, you know. He's seen it then. Like, so people were capturing and, you know, they were way ahead of their time.

then he's put out DVDs this when DVDs. This is when DVDs. Man he would chop and clip and edit his own things man and put him out man and sell them and people would buy him yeah you know so it's the shit is just

to see how far it's came like people who bit on this shit I think the internet has really helped people who didn't have the cameras and big money you know you don't need all of that now but it's but it has detoured true vision I feel like.

Because, you know, now everybody, they give you all the help on phones and on cameras and all the extra shit back then. Muffalo got to kind of do what they do. You had to kind of catch it from what you caught it as or even when you wrote things. Like you had to write it from what you wrote it. You didn't have really no help. And these seven, eight people or, you know, let me see what this person wrote on their story. No, fuck that.

This is my story. This is something I believe in. It's just different today, man. We live in a different era where. people kind of, we do rely on the internet for everything. I mean, I think that the instantaneousness of what happens now. You know, P&B rock, people had video from that within seconds or it's up on the internet. When we used to write these stories in the source or, you know, vibe or whatever,

it would take months before the story come out, right? You wouldn't even be able to know this story. And you didn't have the ability to DM Rihanna or send a, you know what I mean, or send a text message to her. So I think that it's good that the internet has helped. got these cheaper cameras, but I do think, I think it's bad. It's too much access. It's created too much access to the internet.

Well, you know, to me, it's cut out, and I said this earlier, it cut out the manpower. It cut out like the man like doing the work. Right. You know what I mean? Now it's all at the click of a button, man. Like, what do you do? How do you beat that? How do you beat that?

Information can be powerful. Information can be problematic, you know, in my opinion. But for everybody that's on the internet, they feel like every bit of information that's on there is truth. It's not true. And it's not truth, man. And by the way, by the way, our show, one of the things that we wanted to do is dispel internet rumors and really get to it and actually talk to the real people because people could just post whatever and say whatever. It's interesting to see Kanye unravel and obviously Kyrie, Kyrie got into trouble for something he did on the internet, right? Because he posted a link to this video that people considered anti-Semitic.

Yes. And really, what you do and see, say online can affect your life and career. Kyrie just lost, you know, a bunch of money. Kanye lost hundreds of millions of dollars for what he said and shit that he wrote on the internet. You know, by the way, it was no problem when he was threatening his wife and doing whatever when he said something about, you know, they thought was anti-Semitic, then it was immediately something.

So I want to make sure, you know, you say the shit about the wrong person, then it said something. But you could say whatever else before that, and it'd be no problem. He wouldn't, he wanted to kill Pete. You know what I mean? He was like threatening Pete on the internet and all kind of wildness. Do you feel like we're controlled? Do you feel like we're really censored? I work in the media, man. So, you know, I'm going to be like Dave Chappelle. You should know no censorship? You saw Dave Chappelle on Saturday Live.

Was outstanding. And the first thing you said, I like to read a statement, you know, my brother's just as a deal. He got it out the way off top, right? He's like, I want to make sure you know I have, I'll have love for you. Then he went and went into the whole shit and kept it real. Hey, I'll tell you this, if I could ever get Dave Shabella here, like, I'm going to tell you this, man, like, that dude right there is iconic. And just the way he tells his jokes, he just stands up there smokes and is honest about his... It's all opinions. Now, whether people gravitate towards that opinion to make it fact is on them.

You cannot always blame the messenger. Because those people have a choice to choose what they believe and what they don't believe. It goes back to the internet. People sit on there. They believe it because they feel like that's just what's in their face now. Right. Yes, unfortunately, the freedom of the speech part is what I don't like. It's gone.

It's gone. He immediately was vilified again by, you know, different people about what he said, but nothing he said was not true, right? It's just, can you say that? You know, you just had a xenophobic far-right president who said all kind of crazy, man, it's to everybody handicapped people, Sleepy Joe, people was ugly. He was a thug.

People don't realize, did he ever get canceled? Did he ever lose 100 millions? No, he got more money. So there is a double-edged sword where a white man, Donald Trump can be off the chain and say whatever. And a young black guy, Kanye or Kyrie, no matter how you feel about what they said, immediately is vilified.

Right, because it's not about the topic about what they said. It's just what does it fall in the same magnitude. Right. And they did. Right. You're right about that. right about that it still fell in the same magnitude it's not about what was said it could have been two totally different things these motherfuckers fell on level 10

yeah both of them and they're black yeah and so make sure you you got that part right so you know I don't know it's just a crazy world so I'm smart about what I say but a lot of what no you're very smart and how you move very strategic yeah and the words of my brother O'Shea is chestnut checkers pimp you know I mean it's definitely a marathon out of sprint you know if I was in the short term I would sold crack in 86 and then I thought I was going to when I've been in jail and at 91, trying to get my life right. Well, you probably would have bubbled, but yeah,

it probably would have died out about 91, 92. Most drug dealers don't get fat and moved to Miami, right? They either in jail or dead. Very few get a way. But that's the slogan. What? Is, you know, what the hustlers do, man, when they retire and get fat moved to Miami?

It don't happen that much, though, right? How many pimps that you know that really made it to the finish line without going to jail from some period or something getting caught or whatever? I think everybody, let me tell you so. I'm homie and I'm gonna be all away one thaw while with you. One thawal. If anybody that's went to jail

behind that, you know, myself include just being involved or just ties and allegedly whatever. You know, man, when you get out or just anything like that, you know, you got it like, whether you still do it for a while or not,

you know you have to find your transition. You feel it in your gut. Okay. You feel it in your gut, man. You cannot. be stuck on it. Because if you do and you fixate on it, man, guess what? You're going to find yourself in a jail cell. I think that's with anything.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Whether it's selling drugs, anything that our government would consider illegal. You have to remember, man, they make the rules. We're never rules that were set forth. These are rules that are made. Right. You know, this was never a problem.

And like I said, man, for the record, retired. I don't fuck with it no more. I'm out of it. But I've only noticed that they only start fucking with it when they start seeing, see, they stereotyped it, right? They thought that it was it was, you know,

platforms or room living or, you know, everybody's on drugs or things like that and they start seeing the motherfucker having seven houses and, you know, eight, nine, ten different cars and he's having things in different states and he's got bitches here and there. Oh man, that's a problem you didn't touch over two, three million dollars that year, whatever that

man did, whatever. Because I don't know, I'm just putting a cap on because I know it's there. People have done that in their life. You know what I'm saying? So to see that, that's what I think made it a problem. Right.

Was, okay, this some real shit. It's nothing to laugh at no more. See, Bim and Horner, or just the game in general was, you know, it was a laughing matter. That's why they made fun of it on TV or you'd see it in movies. And every time you saw it, it was in a comedy setting. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know, they want to play it.

They want to play it in a comedian mixed. No, not Cat Williams, you know. I don't think that's what it was I don't think he painted that narrative I'm just talking about like more people like in movies from like early movies and just they always put some in it of just some bullshit

fucking uh platforms and shit like that the big hats the money signs like I don't like that shit like that's just that that's what they try to paint it to you as and then when they actually seen that there were some people that actually lived off it or just man took care of their kids and their kids went to school

and college and things off that man they a better life and they made a start a business. They started a better business and they got it. Yeah, it just became something to where they wanted to stop. Oh, hold on. We got to tax you. Look what they did with weed. Right, right. No, it's a trip to see. Look what they did with

how penalized it is back from then. And now, you know, when the white companies ain't nobody going to jail. You know, that's how it is though. They figure it out, man. Now that's why they, I think they had just passed a lot to where you, the people that ever, anybody that's ever fucked with like anybody got any type of

felons off weed shit like that man they getting released yeah which is thank god finally happened thank god man but think about the people that didn't serve years man before that do they get any conversation or they just get out you're lucky to be alive right and not it's sad because another motherfucker argue

that point down and get 10 20 million right no it's true let's be real yeah but man thank God you made it out of that and you know you're here I'm here you know legal paper I'm here I'm having a genuine conversation with you man we chopping it up this is where i like to be man i found my calling yeah yeah you legit now i found my calling it feel good because i never knew what that was like like in my in my life man

you know and i ain't never did no funny business no nothing and i probably didn't been down more than i've been up right right but i stayed down for it man i'm here today i love what i do so i'm at man sharp time yeah you bless you you sip and mo and kick it back smoking one i mean shit i was doing that I was doing that before all this, but to be able to keep it in the mix, yes, it's definitely a plus. It's a beautiful thing, right?

It's a plus of a person. And there's no jail cell waiting for you at the end of the night. One question, man. One question before we get about it, because I got to ask this one for you, because you intrigued me as a real solid individual, producer, director, writer. That writer, I feel like, really stands strong with you.

What can we see? Frank the next five years. No, you know, Jerry Bruckheimer is sort of my role model in terms of he goes back and forth to film and television. Jerry Bruchhammer is a big time producer. Tyler Perry has done a lot.

You can call me the hip-hop Tyler Perry. So we want to be able to put out more content. And so I think we want to be able to own more of our content. We want to be able to film it at places that we own. We want to, you know, at least, you know, big companies are profiting off our stories.

I hear you. I hear you, brother. Think about how much revenue they make off us. So, you know, I got a big doc, hopefully a bust of rhymes, maybe pop up, doc coming out. I got a Roger Trotman project in the mix and probably more, hopefully more seasons of hip hop homicides and some other cool shit happening, man. I'm just going to keep telling these stories, trying to get my own facility and not have to rent

from the white man much longer or the white woman or whatever. I think, let me tell you, let me tell you, I think that should be any man's goal at the end of the day. And even that person or them people should never take, or just your people should never take that person. When you go to Atlanta and you see Tyler Perry's building and the reality of what he's done, it's unbelievable and extremely inspiring. You know what I mean? He's got like Tyler Perry's studios drive. Yeah, no, he has a, he took a military base and bought, his studio is bigger than most Hollywood studios altogether. That is the power of how we, our stories are loved and how he

thought of as an entrepreneur. And you're a player, right? Because you, you come from the life. It's better to be what the pimp than the hoe right yeah right but we got to still learn how to work together somehow yeah but you know hey at the end of the day we got to still learn how to work together somehow it goes together you don't want to be home and for life you might hold a little bit to get to where you I'll tell you this that's why I'm trying to tell you earlier I didn't want to pimp for life right but you can now take your destiny you're pimping now right you're pimping your own life you're taking your legacy you're taking advantage your opportunity It's a different kind of pimping, right?

I'm pimping Hollywood with TV and movies. I ain't, you know, pimping nobody. I'm pimping a podcast. I'm just pimping a podcast with cameras and mics. Same thing, man. People running the board. I mean, shit, we all just, shit, I guess we pimping her horn up here, I guess. I don't know, we all, we all just working.

It's a different level with a game, man. We all just working. Frank, I appreciate you, man. I'm coming, sitting down with me. Man, we need to do some work in the future. Yeah, yeah, you need to do some more voice. Civil work you got that way let me know you just be using it for the ladies you Let me get some pay me know what I mean hey man let me know yeah but check out of work

Check out our show every Thursdays hip hop on my size hosted by Van Lathan for sir that could produce by a 50 cent monoscott myself Erring on Monday is on all black and so it should be good stuff Shut out the van lathan shut out the van that's my mother fucking guy right there man I'll talk to him He just overall like me and him we have these kind of conversations That's why I felt like this is fitting because when me and vans sit down like yeah we shoot the And he tells me, oh, Sharper, like when you go in on people's shit, but we still got down to the meat and potatoes.

And we always get to what the fuck's wrong with society conversation, you know, saying like, we got to fix it. It's up to us. It's up to us, man. Just trying to make changes. It's up to us. I appreciate you for becoming loved one. Appreciate it.

Hey, man, I hope we can catch back up soon, go do some dinner. Something, man, just let me know, man. When you touch the city, we're in the same city, we're going to sit down the street. So, yeah, you know, keep a piece. Yeah, we're going to sit down, man. I'll keep it. Yeah, we're going to keep it pee. P is in podcasting the Sharp Tank.

Yadda, da. Tell business. No jumper. Sharpest, coolest podcast in the world. We out of here, man. Thank, Riley. Shoot us out of the gym.