No Jumper - Prof on Being White in Hip Hop, Label Dropping Him for Old Tweets & More

Episode Date: June 21, 2024

Prof links up with Adam to talk about building his own empire, being the best live performer, toping the charts independently, and more! Prof will be back on the road July 11th.   / profgampo   ----- Get the latest news & videos http://nojumper.com CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! https://shop.nojumper.com/ NO JUMPER PATREON   / nojumper   CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... Follow us on SNAPCHAT   / 4874336901   Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4z4yCTj... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media:   / 4874336901     / nojumper     / nojumper     / nojumper     / nojumper   JOIN THE DISCORD:   / discord   Follow Adam22:   / adam22     / adam22     / adam22   adam22bro on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper. Coolest podcasts on the world. And today I'm having to sit down with a man who already had an appearance on this podcast, Proff. Yeah, what's up, man? You had a dope sit down with Sharp that I listened to yesterday while I was running around in traffic.

Yeah, he got me drunk. He did. By the end of the pot, it was kind of like obvious. I thought that was kind of wild. Yeah, when I was taking those pictures at the end, I was like, man, this is f*** up. Yeah. Yeah. Sharp is one of those guys who likes to kind of draw you into his little world of getting

inebriated. He did an interview before. and so, you know, he came out that with a puff of smoke, like, oh! And I was chill. I was chill. And I had like, you know, maybe a little bit of liquor for me

if I needed it. I took it, whatever, you know, where I needed to go. But then he was like, what up? I can't wait. Does you fucking what's going on? Yeah. I'm going to see what 15 minutes.

Some of these questions are so wild. He's like, oh, shit. So how many bitches you fuck on tour? Yeah, I'm like, oh, man. I don't really want to say. Yeah. I'm not a porn star, man. I don't talk about it.

That's cool. Yeah. I mean, you got to do that. You can't. That's the one thing I regret about my younger life is like just how much more ass I could have got if I had been acting as if I didn't get in the ass. Girls love the guy who seems like he's kind of untouched. Whereas when they can tell, when they smell it on you that you fuck everybody that moves. Yeah.

That could be a negative. I disagree. I think they like the confidence. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't think anybody wants a virgin or something. Okay. But there's levels to it.

There's nuance. You can be a rich, successful man whore. I think when you're a bum, it's kind of a turn off. Yeah. They know that you're like willing to put your dick in anybody who moves. Now, granted, like if you're a rap sheet, is a bunch of real. Well, I'm thinking about my younger days when I was just like the guy with like $100 bucks to his name at the bar.

Yeah. You know, it's like a little bit harder to present as a person of value when you're blatantly down to go home with the 400 pound chick in the corner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's just me. But, uh, prof.

I'm very intrigued by you. I've been listening to the music. You're a talented dude. What is your status right now? You're on the road? I mean, yeah, I'm in LA now. I'm aren't at home, but I'm not in like, I'm not, I don't got to show tomorrow or whatever.

I'm between legs. I'm always in between legs. Like, I'm always on the road. Right. You know what I'm saying? I've been on a row for 15 years. You know what I'm saying? So it's besides the nice little break of COVID and shit,

which I actually like enjoyed. Yes. Yes. It was the shit. I love to wear the masks. so no one could know who I was in public with my family and shit You can still do that with the shi-stie.

Yeah, no, we do that in Minnesota. We've been doing shi-stis for way before any of y'all. It's cold up there. We've been covering up her face in the wintertime, but summertime it's kind of like, you know, whatever. So people just recognize me. You know something interesting is that I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about how

during times of crisis, like the exact times that are supposed to be like the most dangerous, the like during war and shit like that when they poll people after the fact people speak fondly about like the times during their life in which their city was you know under bombardment in a war people miss that shit and when I hear that I'm thinking well I haven't really been through that many like gigantic generational traumas or whatever but when you think about the pandemic I look back on that very fondly that was a time in which everything felt super real and it felt like everybody was able to kind of like pause and really like objectively look at their life and

get a little bit of a perspective as the world slowed down and granted is not as extreme as having you know bombs showering the city that you live in but it's pretty shocking to me people do they they kind of romanticize those times and and they look back on it fondly when everybody has to come together you know this is it's a strange take but you know it makes sense when you say come together like my city Minneapolis oh yeah I was right in the middle of that shit And that was at the same time as COVID. You know what I'm saying? I got canceled that summer.

It all happened within two, three months. And that was some f***ed up times. But I like, I remember all my blood, brother, sisters coming together, like helping each other, helping me through that time, helping the community. You know, like one morning, I mean, I live right there, you know, I don't know, 50, 75 feet from the corner. You could see the third precinct. That precinct that got burned out. Ran the fuck down. We ran them out of town.

And that morning, Wanka didn't holler at me or nothing. And I just saw him on the streets like sweeping up shit, picking things up, helping people, you know. And just people just coming together, helping out. Like it was so, so those moments like me, they're very powerful, very important moments. But so, okay, has your perspective on 2020 changed at all? Because there's like a new meme format that I've kind of seen going around that I think, think kind of draws attention to how different a lot of people started acting during that time period and like one tweet that I saw recently going going crazy was like is a video of a shitload

of white people in like a park and they're all like bowed down and they're all saying I can't breathe or whatever and like it does and and the caption was like holy shit 2020 was a wild time to be alive or something like that and remember all those senators and like African deschiquis and shit. Nancy Pelosi. That's what I was thinking about mentioning too. Yeah. Oh, damn. I mean, you know, as far as white people bound down and saying that shit, at least their intentions were good. You know, they say the road to hell is paid with good intentions. I don't believe that. I'll stick with people who intend good. And if you make a mistake, that's just, that's fine with me. As long as your intentions are good,

like, that's good enough for me, you know? It just feels like that stood out as such a profound racial reckoning in America that was immediately met with a counter reaction from the right. And really, I feel like it drove a lot of people into the arms of the right. I think in a lot of ways, I think when you look at how popular Trump seems right now and how plausible Trump being president seems. Yes, it's going to happen. A lot of that seems like a reaction to what a lot of people have viewed now as kind of like overt, cringy virtue signaling.

It canceled. Way too many people out here. Yeah, it wasn't like a conversation that was as mainstream until that time period. And granted, a lot of people still look at it as like an important time. And I think important things probably came from it. But it feels like the amount of energy behind the right now is probably a counterreaction to that. Absolutely. And when you talk about people like taking things, they see an opportunity, a wide open door and running with it.

You know what I'm saying? If it was like at the time or like if believe women, you know, any woman like, motherfuck there's some. if maybe a schizophrenic who or whatever it was like you know like uh hates prof or something like this was on the internet that i was running around raping people you know what i'm saying like not true so you actually had that where you had like legitimately crazy people who were basically like inventing narratives about you to kind of coincide with you being canceled about like yeah if you want to step on anybody everything's true dude everything was so confusing and then you read shit and the new words were coming out at that time like gaslighting and like people were like

damn and those words were so powerful that they just like people took them and used them for wrong reasons they were used for good reasons i would say most of all like you said that like those things were important and um but yeah did swing the back looking back now you know uh in retrospect i know so many porn star chicks and rap people like you know rappers and like rap industry associated people who were posting the black square who were like you know posting long soliloquies about the state of race in America, who when I look at it now, like four years later, are like Trump voters or at least like, you know, very, very much aligned with the right. And that is kind of odd to me. It makes me wonder how sincere they were in the

first place or did that time period kind of like as much as they were signaling that they were on one side, did it kind of like push them in a different direction as time went by? I'm not sure. I think with the left, the biggest problem is the fucking the what the woke. Like that's a great idea. Let's wake up, let's get woke, whatever. But like, as far as like the litmus test, are you woke enough for this? Are you the virtual signaling? You know what I'm saying? It's like, and they're just eating their own. You know what I'm saying? If, if you're not way over the fuck over here and you're still, you know, you can't come to any common ground, they're just going to eat their own can't, you know, everybody getting canceled in Minneapolis was super woke.

You know what I'm saying? It's super fucking left wing. All those rappers and shit in 2020. Like it's a wild year. And they probably would all vote for the same shit. They have all the same legislation or they either believe in the same shit, but they were just eating each other. You know what I'm saying? There was no forgiveness. There was no common ground or trying to, you know, look someone in the face. That's the difference between the right and the left. There's the right as a big tent party. And the left is a small tent party where basically like, imagine if I decided to go full politico right now, like decided I wanted to hitch my wagon to one of these parties. If I decided I wanted to be a hardcore Trump guy, everything will be

forgiven. Any, all my Joe Biden support, every liberal thing I ever said. Yeah, come on. in here. Exactly. You can literally be a Nazi. Let's go. You're a Nazi? Come on in. We got you. We're going to kind of ignore the edgy or shit that you say, but they're pretty much down to take anybody in, whereas on the left, it feels like your smallest transgression is going to be basically used as a way to get you out of here. Yeah, that's great to take people in. Welcoming, like, it feels good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm just happy to speak politics in the first 10 minutes, like right off the bat with you, you know? I'm not mad at it. Because, yeah, well, because the one, you know who I think of is, I remember Bernie Sanders did.

a campaign ad at a certain point that an online ad that basically like endorsed, it was drawing attention to the endorsement that Joe Rogan had given to Bernie Sanders. He had basically said a bunch of positive stuff about Bernie Sanders. Immediately

met with such extreme rejection. I don't think that Bernie Sanders like formally disavowed Bernie Joe Rogan. But like when you look at that, that should have been a moment in which the left said, oh, hey, we're going to do whatever to be on good terms with all these Joe Rogan fans.

Oh, one of the most powerful voices in our community in the world is in support of one of our guys. We should use this. They said, no, fuck it. He's racist. We don't like them. You got to be fucking perfect. That's the problem, man.

Yeah. The Rogan vote could swing the election. Let's be real. The Rogan, I think that Donald Trump will be the next president in the United States of America. I just think, like, man, you want to put a zombie up against this motherfucker? Exactly. You got a candidate that you and I cannot sit here and have an enthusiastic conversation about him, whereas like if you go back to Obama for all his faults, you and I could both sit here and say like, you know, like wholeheartedly be willing to get behind the guy.

Yeah. Oh, hell no. I don't know. Like I imagine myself like four years with this motherfucker again. I was like, yeah. Yeah. You know, like. So what was it like being in Minneapolis when the George Floyd shit really starts kicking off?

It was intense, man. It was always everybody in Minneapolis. If you live south side, north side or in the streets and in the city, it's like it's always been 12. It's always been like all my experiences with them. Because they just are worse than a lot of others. Horrible. Yes.

They're worse than a lot of other cities. Well, well, maybe I don't know. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's the one you're most intimately aware of them. It was just in the paper. I just tweeted on my story or Instagram my story. You know, it's in the paper.

It's in the Star Tribune. The shit's coming out. We're looking back and they're all being found guilty of putting things under the rug and horrible ways of discipline and shit. like that. I mean, and me coming up, like, you know, getting in trouble with them and them just, you know, busing in people's houses and beating people's moms and shit. Really? Wow. It was, we always knew it. And so when it come around and we saw that shit about George Floyd and it was like, man, that was, you know, I was extremely close to all that shit, you know, that, that cut foods

and where George Floyd was killed, you know, I think eight months earlier, we were looking to buy our office right on that block. Just right. over the wall of Cup Foods. The office where you run your stop house. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And that was where I was born and raised and potherhorn and everything like that.

And I lived really close to the third precinct. So, man, there was no sleep. You know, we were, I was exhausted, man. It was. Did it feel like Minneapolis was already kind of a powder keg in that that situation, just pushed it over the top? Like there was already a lot of that energy in the air that people were pissed off. Because in retrospect, it does stand out.

And I wasn't super cognizant at the time. that like, oh, a lot of this is the fact that people are stuck at home and don't have jobs and shit, which normally is the thing that stops you from marching. Everything came together in a weird combination, man. It was, I don't think it might not ever happen again like that, but the police union leader was a fucking scumbag, racist, like, neo-Nazi motherfucker. He's running the union tight as hell. Like, no one, you know, Derek Chauvin got away with crazy shit.

That wasn't his first shit. prior. You know what I mean? Like, oh, my God, his priors were crazy. Those are coming up now in lawsuits and everything, you know? Like, yeah, no, like, everyone knows if you're in the city, like, no one, no one was like, this is cool, this is fair.

You know, so when it happened, it was, it was a rap. Yeah. Right. So what do you do in that situation? Like, how did you embrace it or, you know, you said that you were really close. You were all up in it, right? Really close. I was like the first residential block.

The other block was like the targets and the, you know, all that. shit that was getting raided and everything like that. So it was like you would see when it was happening. If you were a bank robber or had any experience, oh shit, look at what's popping off. If you were a white supremacist have any experience, let's go there. You know what I'm saying?

And I remember people, there was footage of people like starting fires at like the auto zone and shit like that. And we look back and it's been confirmed, they've been convicted. It was white supremacist that started all. That's just crazy. Because I remember seeing people say like, oh, these guys are secret.

Republican white supremacists, etc. And I remember thinking like, yeah, maybe, but probably not. And then to see that really get confirmed is wild. I was in the streets. My homies got strapped up. We were riding around protecting businesses, black-owned, color-owned businesses, houses, my crib was there. They came in.

The white supremacist, boogloooo boys. The boogloo boys, that's what they call them, right? Going crazy. There was gunfights. I was right in the middle of that shit. protecting things, it was the fucking wild west, especially when that third precinct went, you know, even before the third precinct went for a couple days,

it was, it was fucking wild. And were you happy to just be out in that environment, or was there part of you that was like, fucking I'm staying at home? I wasn't happy. And there was no choice for me. I wasn't staying at home because the resident, like, I could tell that,

all right, this ain't the neighborhood no more. When my block filled up with cars, then I went around to walk, the next block filled up the cars, the next block filled up with cars, It was like the Super Bowl. Everybody came in there and did this shit. This wasn't us.

You know, so I was just watching people just, and I got videos just chilling. I was on the porch of my crib trying to protect it. And, you know, everybody was doing that thing. Oh, would you get PlayStation? Cool. Some was friendly. But then, you know, when I got a little later,

I didn't have a choice to be in or out. Like, I had to leave in the middle of the night because the house next to me was on fire. There was charcoal there, like that big apartment complex, a seven-story apartment complex that went up in flames. people like to post that picture like yeah like you know justice whatever whatever for me that was scary as I had a newborn baby oh shit that was 14 days old you know and I I was up for a week straight and then you know I finally doze off and I'm getting keep the ringer on like boom like

what are you at dude this this flame is jumping it's you know it's on the news it's over your shit so I'm like you know I got to take a couple things that matter and leave because my house was filling up with smoke that's how fucking close I was to this shit you know I had no choice. Damn. So, yeah. When I look back on that, there was such a big part of me that wanted to just get out there and be in the middle of all the bullshit.

Like, my girl had just found out she was pregnant and she like, you know, normally I'm kind of just doing whatever I want when it comes to like leaving the crib. But like, she like really was like, no, you're not leaving. You're not going to be in the middle of that bullshit. In retrospect, I'm like, okay, you probably spared me some shit. It was not safe. We got sick. We've seen people just women get yanked up and just thrown into, you know, minivans and shit like that, you know.

Wait, you think there was people just like sex trafficking in the middle of all this? Like I said, anything you wanted to do, you could go there and do it. You know, there was people who were having fun. You know, I saw like suburbans with a dude out of every window shooting guns just doing, you know, you know, burning out and stuff. And, you know, they did try to rob that bank with dynamite that was right down the street from me, you know, the block over. Like it was it was crazy because like like when I was tempted to go be part of it but like I wish I could name the people but there's like some rival gang members basically in LA that they told me like I asked I was trying to do a sit down with like these two dudes who like typically wouldn't get along and I was kind of thinking like oh you guys might be able to be on good terms and do this and one of them told me like nah during the riots we had a shoot out like a year and a half ago like during that shit like not we were at the CBS shooting at each other. And I was just like, oh, fuck, like, everything was happening under the cover of all that

craziness. Like a lot of wild shit went down. Yeah. That people don't even know about. But all right, talk to me about being from Minneapolis and choosing to become a rapper. And when I always, like, people always ask me, like, why I didn't start rapping when I was younger as if that would have been the obvious thing to do. And I think about it.

And I'm like, well, Eminem didn't come out until I was like 14 or 15. How old you? I'm 40. probably say a little younger oh no 40 okay um and i i when i think back on it like it barely even crossed my mind to rap when i was younger just because it so didn't feel like the kind of space where i would ever be no i had to there was nothing else in my space what was what was driving you to it or yeah what was the scene like that you were around well when i was really really young i just you know

it was just capping on my this coming up with jokes and i because i didn't want to i don't want to get in knife fights and shit. Like I was not, I was raising Potterhorn in the 90s. Like, that was, you know, we had the highest murder capital per capita rate in the United States a few times, like, in my hood. And, you know, I would try and go out in the neighborhood and kick it with these kids. And they would be like, you know, let's steal some bikes. You hear some nice. And I'm like, this is exhilarating. This is fun. When it came down to it, like, I'm, man, I'm like, I didn't have the balls for it. Or maybe I was too, I was smart for, you know, I didn't want to do that shit. I didn't want to get stabbed. You know what I'm saying? I wasn't

I was never like no shooter or anything like that. So it was like I was just jokes, jokes, you know. And so, and everybody would laugh. I could insult someone who thought they were cool to put them on their level. And I, you know, up my status a little bit. And they wouldn't take it personally because it was just like battle rapping and shit. So, you know, so that's kind of the reason I did. And also I love music.

I love art. Like I was always drawing, you know, it was a perfect little pivot to, to, you know, have a little weapon carry of, you know, little lyrical. knife per se, you know what I mean? Okay. So, wait, it was a real culture of stabbing. You're making it sound like in London. Well, no, I didn't have a, no, no, no. I was too young for guns.

Okay. And so everybody was stealing bikes and my people on the block were just, you know, carrying knives. I don't really see anybody stabbed, but like that, that's what like the 10 to 13 year olds had, you know, out the kitchen. Right. So, okay, you, you start embracing it more on like, just like communication locally, but like, how do you start taking it more serious?

And what was like the hip-hop scene like there in particular? Amazing. amazing the I mean I would say the the rap scene in Minneapolis through like atmosphere and even before that's your name that I was thinking I was like atmosphere must have had a big effect and even before them no I did I never I never I never with that music I was always listening to like music from Atlanta like the first record I memorized was Goody Mob soul food like that was my shit I loved outcast and shit like that you know there was a big backpack rapper right

scene in Minneapolis that I never felt like I was a part of. The atmosphere was like the backpack rap of the late 90s, early 2000s. Like if you were talking about being into like underground rap and like, you know, sort of nerdy white boy type rap or whatever, like that was kind of like one of the main names that people would go towards. I only really became familiar with them from BMX videos and skate videos at the time that they'd be using a lot of that shit.

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. So, okay, how do you like start taking the rap shit more serious? I'm bad. This was even before eight mile. I was battle rapping. It was just was what we was doing. It was happening in Detroit, but it was happening in Minneapolis, too, you know? So I was winning rap

battles. I was trying to make it to Scribble Fest. You ever heard of that? Scribble Jam? Scribble Jam? Yeah, yeah. I remember hearing about all the time back then. Scribble Jams. I was kind of late to that party. And I think I almost, I made it to regionals or something. The very last year it was going down, didn't make it to the national

or whatever. But yeah, it was cool, man. We were getting drunk face to face with everybody. There was, you know, I mean, MySpace was kind of popping off. at the starting, you know, but we were in the streets like getting drunk and fighting each other and battle rapping and it was a lot of fun. How do you transition out of that into more

being focused on making music? I think it was an L I took to somebody who I thought it was still freestyle rapping. No, it changed now. There's no like freestyle battles anymore. They just go in with pages and pages against each other. Yeah. And I went up against somebody.

It's like opposition research. Yeah. And you expect that. Because I heard somebody say I was listening a podcast And they said that push a tea ruined rap battles by basically doing the sun reveal on Drake. And I was like on a mainstream level for sure. But like that type of shit had been simmering in the battle rap community. Like I think from jump from back in the day like the clip of the girl showing the dirty ass mattress and to the other girl.

I don't know if remember this from back in the day. But it was basically like look how shitty your home environment is. And I always thought it was amazing because it's like there's nothing that they could have done to prove that that was actually what that was. And that photo. It doesn't matter. But it was like it won the crowd over it, which is exactly the same as the Drake and Kendrick thing. All of the opposition research they did on each other is bullshit.

If I get into beef, I would love it because that's my shit. I haven't been in it in a while. I've just been minding my own business or shit. First thing I'm going to do is I'm going to call the motherfucker a bifal. Right from the jump. Yeah, that's the easiest. It's the hardest one to get rid of. First off, let's start with this.

You're a binafile. And then I would probably just rhyme that, you know, the whole way. Yeah. Certified lover boy. But, okay, so you start to... Oh, yeah, so... Why they out? Because at that time, I was still doing freestyle rap,

and, you know, when we were doing Scribble Jam, you wouldn't know your opponent until, you know, 10 minutes before, whoever the winner was. So, and I didn't, you never knew those motherfuckers coming in either. So it was all freestyle. This dude went up against me. It was a big night. I was very, very popular.

He was very, very popular. He went down, and he, I was, like, ready to freeze. I had a couple things on the top of my head. Like, you know, I got... You got to go in with some punchlines or whatever, but he just showed up with, you know, five songs of written shit. And I took that L and I was like, man,

and he won $500 that night. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, if I'm going to write six or seven or eight verses, I was already doing music. I'm like, bitch, I'm making a good ass song. There's no way I'm going to write all this for one night. That's not worth my time. Like, I want some fucking money out of this shit.

You know, like, so then I was like, oh, I'm done with this. So then I just went straight into, you know, I'll, you know, making music and just rap shit. Yeah. Right. Definitely. And so how long were you grinding before it really felt like it started to come together? I didn't feel that until, I mean, maybe 20 years, 20 years maybe? 20 years. Yeah. So. I feel legit. I get in arguments with my homies and shit. I'm like, who has had a slower come up in the entire history of rap besides me? And I just can't fucking name one because Tech Nine has been around for a long time.

But he kind of, you know, I don't think it took him 20 years, you know, maybe. I mean, he's more had like sustained underground popularity. It's just he doesn't really like broken through it to a mainstream level, which if you listen to the way it raps is like 0% surprising because it's just not the style of rap that typically explodes. I didn't know until basically my last two records hit the top of the billboard charts. So there's not too much ignoring that. It's just kind of funny because people always try to use the, the, the, explanation of white boys have it easy or if you're white it's easy to blow up and rap which

some truth to that when you look at certain people if you're a human it's not easy to blow up and rap well that's true so there's yeah there's no ones you can look at race and shit but overall god damn like no one's going to do this right no one's ever going to get here especially now with I mean how many uploads are on Spotify per day yeah it was like I don't know the stat I think it was like over a quarter million or something every single day new songs yeah it's insane it's fucking impossible right and for every uh you know you know Jack Harlow. There's a mother toiling away in obscurity for a million

years that... I came up with a lot of motherfuckers out of Minneapolis. They all got jobs now. Yeah. Isn't that that's what we're feeling when you realize, like, oh, I'm the only person from high school that's still chasing their dreams in like a

creative field trying to do the type of shit that I was doing when I was in high school and like everybody else along the way basically had to bail out and get a job and live a normal life. Yeah, it took a more. much respect to him. There's nothing wrong with the honest living. But it is kind of crazy to be like, I'm the one who's still hanging on. And looking back, I'm not, I'm not really too upset with a normal life either. I don't really enjoy fame. It's not something I really like I'm going to, you know,

there's goals, financial goals, some things I want within my family and protection and shit. There's a couple more things I want to do. But, bro, like, yeah, I wanted money, power and fame. And I don't want fame and power no more. Like, I just, I just want to be cool. Yeah. I feel like around 40 is when that really starts to tap in. Aren't you stressed out with this shit, man? I'll look at some of your videos and I'm like, oh, all, I mean, I was just watching

you, you know, before this shit. And all these names and everything you got to keep track of and everything, man. Like, damn, God bless you. I do love it. Like, I love just being in the mix of the underground street rap shit and everything. But it definitely, like, as you approach 40, I feel like is when you really start to, like, look at your life and I've been doing a shitload of this lately and say like okay what do I want for my life because the reality is is at 40 you're kind of staring down irrelevancy because let's be

real when it comes to hip hop podcasters the time you're 50 starts to get a little rough you just made a joke because there ain't no irrelevancy no more man you could be an old ass rapper and podcasters it's never been done before you know yourself you could do this as long as you want you can do it as long as you want the question is how many people are really going to want to pay attention to you because I look at a lot of people in the media space, even outside of hip hop, and it does seem like around 50 is when it starts to kind of wane. And yes, some people get to be a Joe Rogan, who's at the front of his field at 50. But for every Joe Rogan, I know a whole lot of people who seem like at a certain point, there's 35-year-olds or 30-year-olds, et cetera, who are kind of, not to mention

like a Kisanat or some shit like that, who's like fully not concerned with any of the legacy hip-hop concerns that a lot of people from our generation might have. Would you have a sleepover with me? Would I have a sleepover with any adult man? Probably not unless we were in like dire circumstances. I'll split a hotel room with you. Did Kevin Hart really sleep over? Or is he like, he's at 2 p.m., like I'm out.

Like, is he really? Wait, Kevin Hart's sleeping over at Kaisenat's house. Oh, yeah, yeah, five, six hour stream or something. Did he sleep over? That's what they call it. Oh, all right. Imagine how much explaining. The team, like Kevin Hart's team must have had to do to him to be like,

this is a good idea for you to go kick it with this young ass kid for like six hours on stream. Like I could just imagine Kevin Hart being a little confused when they first floated that idea by him. Yeah, I can't watch that shit for more than like two minutes. I'll check in, but I don't know how people can watch five hours or what they do. Yeah. I don't even know because you're right. I, I'm not a live stream guy. I feel like that's part of me being 42 is that it's like,

I don't want to watch your fucking six hour live stream. I will scroll through Twitter the next day and watch a bunch of 40 seconds. in clips and shit. Club Shay, don't watch it, but I'll see your Instagram clips. Right, yeah. I'm not really like dying

to know every single thing that's going on. Even if it's something that I know I need to watch. If it's live streaming, I'm kind of like, I'll just catch the clips at a certain point, yeah.

No doubt. Especially if you're fucking busy and you're doing shit. Yeah, and especially as a content creator who wants people to watch the full thing, that is kind of insulting

because we live like in the clip era. I don't want to go to my shows. I would never be in the crowd at my own shows. So I know what it is, bro. It's a different thing. Like, these motherfuckers have packed in like sardines jumping around all over the place, like going crazy.

Right. I'm like, give me a table at the balcony, you know? But, yeah, so how do you view your own sort of fan base at this point? Is it typically younger people or people who are a little closer to you and age? I don't know what's going on, man. I don't know what's going on. It changes throughout the country. Like you go to Albuquerque and they look different than, you know, northeast.

And we did some Appalachian Appalachian Appalachian shows. I'm like there's some people missing teeth Over there. Oh yeah, you should got to see the Willickers. Yeah, I've seen that shit You did? Oh yeah. Yeah, that's the best of that the Appalachian Mountains have to offer But then there's some fly ass motherfuckers too out in like Raleigh and we just did an East Coast tour and you know It's different in Florida than whatever you know but I don't I'm not I'm not a I don't have the high school game on lock for sure, you know I would love to get younger and I honestly see their parents or

uncles and aunts putting on their younger siblings or family members into my shit so you know I don't know because when I look at the rap game it does it feels like there will always be a place for the like extreme lyricist like that's kind of like a sustained fan base that isn't

I don't think I'm an extreme lyricist you know you don't put yourself in that category I feel like no okay this is just me based on like listening to your most recent project because it's not like like I've gone through every single project and listened to all of them. But I feel like that's kind of like your main value proposition is that you're doing like very interesting outside the box things lyrically. And not to say that you're not like, you know, doing melodies and harmonies and all this type of shit as well.

But I feel like you're somebody who you're not content to get on a beat and just rap in the formulaic way that a lot of people might. I'm down to rap formulaically if the beat seems like it is. You know, like I like to do everything. Whatever the beat calls for is what I'm going to try and jump and do. Like I feel like I have, I'm the most diverse rapper artist in the game right now because I have songs where I'm singing my ass off and crying and shit and like belting out notes and I feel like I, you know, I can sing.

But then also I can do some, you know, I don't even really like lyrical miracle shit. I can rap fast, but I'll do it for four bars just to let you know I can do it. And then I'm on to some other shit. So, but I don't think I'm an extreme lyricist. Okay. There's, I mean, Jid is better than me. You know, there's some real lyricists out there. Like, if it calls for it, I'll sit down.

It's just hard to do that. It takes a long-ass time. I'm more of a vibe, dude, you know. But if it calls for it, I'll do that, you know, I'll write some fast raps. When you get in the booth, do you have a verse ready, or is it more of a punch-in type thing at this point? My last two records, I'm recording all by myself. I'll make my beats. I'm just leave me the fuck alone.

I'm in here, boom, boom. And then I'll record sort of like Young Doug, like Jeffrey, like, I'll just, I'll just. engineering your shit. Yeah. I'll just force it. Force creativity. Here's the take. Record.

And a lot of, I'm just top lining over something. You heard of top lining before. Where you do the mumble track? Melody mumbles, rhythms. And, you know, sometimes if you're really on point,

some words will come in and you'll freestyle content in there as well. But like, that's how I like to do my shit. And so, because it's all communication to me. If someone is, I'll get bored with the conversation

if someone's only using the same time over and over and over again. So then, wow. Like, so if I'm going to top, lining over something. All right, four bars from now. Woo, blah, blah, blah, blah, go on some other shit.

And then I did that for too long. And it's just, you know, that's the way I do my shit. I record like that. And then I will fill it in with words. And then if the words change it up, I might change the melody or rhythm to. I remember going to the studio and probably like 2017 with Rich the kid and seeing him do that and being like very shocked. Like what the fuck? Is this dudes on drugs? What's going on?

Yeah. Because when you first hear him do it and you're like, what the fuck are you doing? like, you know, making like a random noise and then slowly turning it into words. Yeah. But then I found out that like that's what all the big songwriters do too is that they basically just hear the beat, freestyle a flow or whatever. And then they'll work on it a little bit and then turn it into words as time goes by. And when I found out that that's not just a rap thing. I was kind of shocked.

When I started, I had, you know, I'm going to write a whole 16. I put the headphones on. I didn't really talk much and I just wrote. And that shit is like garbage. because it's just too it's not expressive you got to get yourself in there and act like you're having a seizure

I'm surprised that he had you in there because like I'll do it by myself because it looks fucking stupid as hell you know I'm surprised he had you had you in there and doing that but yeah there was so much lean being drank in the studio that night that I'm not sure if he even knew I was there to be honest but yeah

that kind of thing okay so yeah like you're just talking about like what your style is and shit like how is the process been of kind of like discovering your style as the years go by because I imagine that there's been a lot of changes and fluctuations over the last 20 years or so, right? Yeah, sure. I don't know.

I don't think. But you try not to intellectualize it? I don't know. I think that, I don't know. I think that question might suck. Say it again? How it's changed as it goes by? Yeah, like, what kind of rubber were you when you started and versus now and like,

how did you get there? Like, what do you feel like has changed over time? Things will change, but I don't go in thinking, okay, no, I got to change. You know what I'm saying? I just got to go in there and not create for nobody else. I got to go on there and just fucking say what I'm, you know, like I do top line over shit, but when I put in words,

they got to be kind of right on from me. But I don't, I'm not in there like, oh, I'm changing. I mean, retrospectively, I look back at these records and I don't know, I think I'm still getting better

because I'm still fucking angry as hell. You know, I'm competitive and I'm still getting better. I think the minute I'm satisfied, I'm just going to start getting worse. How often you're, record though. Do you do it on the road or just when you're at home?

I can't do shit on the road but perform man. I put everything into that shit. So like when I'm at home and I find some time. Do you think if you had the low way and separate tour bus thing going so that you could just hop in the studio that that would work for you? No, I have to, my voice, I don't talk on the road. Oh. I'm like, I say my voice like that.

Like I got to hit these notes like that's important to me. I don't wrap over no background vocals, nothing. All these notes that I record in, that take me 80 takes. I'm like, shit. then people want to see that live I'm like I gotta learn that shit and really like So you have to practice before you go on tour to just make sure that you're on point? Oh yeah, no fucking doubt

Is every set different or do you keep it pretty similar on the road? Every year I'll tour the same, you know Once I tour the country, I'll come home You know, change everything But it's basically the same thing throughout every new city Yeah definitely Like you and Sharp talked a lot about touring Like why do you feel like that's emphasized so much

much more in your career than some artists. Obviously, like a lot of artists on the road a lot. But when I was listening to you talk about it, it felt like you were like a real road warrior. Yeah, I don't want. I mean, it's only because I'm one of the best performers in the world. Like, I would love to not tour. That's the, but every time I go back,

I mean, every show, I fucking kill that shit. And false humility is worse than arrogance. I know what the fuck it is. I know what's going on over here. I'm a better performer than Taylor Swift. Really? Yeah, I'll say that you. My girl and I had a big argument recently where I kind of conceded that she was probably right. But she was arguing that what Taylor Swift does on any given night is more difficult than what an NBA player does in a given game.

And she made the point. She's like, that's three hours of her sprinting back and forth on the stage while singing, wearing high heels versus an NBA player is one of five guys on the court. And he's not playing the entire game. and they're kind of like jogging up and down. I do both. So I kind of saw her point by the time we got to the end of the conversation even though I started the conversation thinking that is obscene to compare Taylor Swift

to LeBron James. But I don't know, like you're not playing for three hours, right? No, I'm not. But I'm playing straight through. I've never really, I've seen video of her and everything. But you know, they go through breaks.

They come over here. Other things happen. You know, it's crazy. But when I'm on, It's hour and a half, two hours every time. And I played basketball and I do really good shows. Is it ever hard? The NBA is harder? I think the NBA is pretty competitive. I would assume.

I'm just looking at all these monsters running up and down that card. I'm just like, yeah, like Taylor Swift isn't risking taking a fucking elbow to the face. No. But if you took, look, Taylor Swift has got the biggest show in the world. Yeah. All the best people in the industry working for her. and I'm sure it's like super creative. All the music videos are the shit.

Like, you know, like, I'll recognize game. She's an amazing performer. But put her in a, in a small venue with 100 people who've never heard of her and 100 people who've never heard of me, it's not even close. When you're on tour, you got a van?

Like, how do you go about doing it in the bus? Okay. So that's got to be relatively comfortable, right? But you don't party on the road at all? You just try to leave that behind? I mean, I party for a long time. time, bro. Long time. I've done, put some bricks through some trophy stores and ran out with trophies and, you know, I've done all the drunk shit jumping off rooftops and, you know,

having 10 naked people in the swimming pool, you know, I've done all that. Because when you first start touring, every city seems like this opportunity that you absolutely have to seize upon. And then as time goes by, it just becomes more and more obvious to you that this is unsustainable to party hard while you're on the road, even without the drugs and stuff, just staying up all night and everything like that like i think if you really want to last on the road you kind of got to have enough respect for yourself to to get the eight hours of sleep and try to find a fucking salad have to yeah you have to you see a fucking roadie that's like been on the road for you know a good 10 20 years yeah like you think he's like 70 years old mom it's like 43 you

you know i mean like he fucking kills you a new thing was came out about shift workers people who work overnight they die 15 years earlier really they you need the circadian rhythm and you need to wake up and hear that light. Like, when I get older, every tour I come back, I'm like, damn, like, I'm working out constantly to prep myself for this tour. And after the tour is done, I come home and I'm like, I can feel it's about one month on tour is about three months straight workout, eating well. We'll just, that's what it takes to get back to where I was before.

Yeah. Do you think it's possible for you to be able to live like the healthiest version of your life while on tour, though, if you really were on your P's and Q's or is it just not an option? I think it's possible. I have to, you know. A lot of sacrifice. Yeah, I'm a light sleeper, so it sucks to like, all right, you're done with the city, and then you hop in the bus, and you bang it all the way down Indiana roads, the worst roads

in the country. And, you know, it's just like, eh, you know. But I don't know. It's not something I would want to do, though. Right. Like, so, you know, I'm going to work as hard as I can for the next year, two, three years, and then, like, be able to not tour again if I want, like, basically semi-retire with that fucking you know.

Yeah, because, like, early on, you probably felt like this is life or death. Like, you know. either tour or you're never going to be anything. And as you get older, you start to fill a little bit more. And I'm reading a book by this band against me or by the singer who actually transitioned from male to female. This is like my favorite punk band from high school against me. And I'm just like reading her biography.

And she's just talking about those tours and just how fucking insane it was being on the road for all those years. And then realizing like when they got signed to a major label that it was like, this is not a choice anymore. This is like this album needs to sell 100,000 copies of your fucking done. So you got to be on the road for months and months and months at a time and like that pressure just eats bands alive. Yeah. Well, everybody, they will fly in to my shows.

My fans are incredible. They'll fly in from any all over the world. They'll buy these meet and greet tickets to come see me or the shows will be sold out. And they'll be, they know they maybe this heard the word of mouth or was at another show before. And they're like, this is going to be the best party of the summer. They've been looking forward to this shit for 40 days. they're going to turn the fuck up and get drunk as hell. They got the girlfriends around them.

Woo, you know what I'm saying? Let's go. But me and Wanka have been done this shit and, you know, eight shows and 10 days, you know, or we've been on the road for three weeks and this is the party of their summer, party of their lifetime maybe. We've been doing this, you know what I'm saying? So to get up for it, we don't try and get too high, not too low, you know, and just trying to keep our head down and like, but when it comes showtime, like, yeah, we lock in.

I'm, you know, it's like the most important thing. It's very stressful to try and get to that level every single night. Yeah, because you, the other 23 hours of the day are like solely focused around making this show happen. And then when it actually happens, you know that you need to be 100% there and present. But it's very fucking difficult when obviously there's a million different things that could go wrong and usually are going wrong at any given time when you're on the road. Yeah, where am I shitting? What's the backstage? Every day I don't know where I'm shitting.

The toilet paper sucks. Even in world-class venues, the fucking toilet paper sucks. You know what I'm saying? Shows are shitty. It's isolating. Like, it's very glamorous for that hour and a half, two hours. You know what I'm saying?

It's incredible. But you get right back off and it's fucking grimy as fucking, you know, I'm sleeping in a little bunk like a little coffin trying to nap before the show and the lines down the block. And everyone was, well, I hear, yeah, yeah. And I'm just by myself.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't, you know, I can't, especially I can't like go out after the shows where I'm at because there's thousands of people in the streets. And it's just, Just like, you know, so it's isolating as, like, you know, I don't see nobody. I don't touch nobody for a month. You know what I'm saying?

So. Yeah, no. It's a wild feeling because you're like so isolated on that bus or whatever. And then you go to perform and you're Mr. fucking cool guy and everybody wants to talk to you and shit like that. But you are kind of like incapable of engaging that the way that you might want to. If you had five fans to shut up at the show, you'd have time to talk to all of them for a half hour versus like when you have a thousand fans,

you can't really connect with anybody on any like real level. So you're like isolated when you're on the bus and then you're also isolated when you're surrounded by people who love you and think you're the coolest shit in the world. And even a meet and greet, it's still isolation. Like I don't know these people. They're assuming things about me.

I'm not having a normal natural conversation. They're like presenting me with gifts and shit. I'm like, I do not want any more gifts at the meet and greets. I love them. Some are incredible and shit like that. But like I do not want to line up and have people just present me frankincense and go over.

you know what I'm saying like that ain't my shit like yeah murr's cool. Murr's cool cool yeah yeah Murr goes hard no yeah like I've been in that position many times where like you agree to like with us like it's not really comparable because we'll do like a live podcast and like I'll always say yeah let's do the meet and greed but then I'm actually in that environment especially we're just on stage for two hours like talking and shit nonstop and then you got to hang out for another couple hours just shaking hands and just taking

pictures with everybody and it's dope as fuck because I appreciate all those people so There's some incredible moments that happened in meeting greet. Like it, oh yeah. For me, you know, it's definitely. You ever get propositions in that environment? Yes. I suck Tommy Lee's dick, you know, the last tour. So you get the propositions of ones that you don't really want.

Well, yeah, ones I do. Yeah, I mean, it's all, yeah. I get it all. Definitely. Yeah. It's some real rock star shit, man. I'm really been on on the road. Like, we're really doing these shows.

Like, but you stop doing shows. Well. Remember when you're doing them live joints from, the big theaters or whatever. Like I remember I was I pulled up to one in LA probably the day after you guys and I'm like I'm like I wonder how they're gonna I bet they're not going to do too many of these because it's you know what I'm saying? Like you got a lot on your plate and I don't you get into a whole new world that I don't

know if you're going to like and then you didn't do no more. I like the idea of it. It's great to interact with your community like that. However the problem is is that financially it's not the best use of my time. It's like there's a whole like I would be way better off just like sitting around here doing interviews all day and not having to like kind of put myself in this environment that I'm not 100% comfortable with like I with it to a certain extent I like it but also I'm just way more at home in my sort of like solitary lifestyle family couple of friends with etc like I don't know it's

like but then meanwhile like a lot of people who've been part of no jumper over the years are kind of like more glutton's for that kind of attention like either because they haven't really like lived that much of it you just called your co-worker glutton's. I'm talking about past hosts. But like, you know, they haven't necessarily done the fucking famous guy getting to do the meet and greet thing as much. So it's like, it's a little bit more

appealing to certain people. And then they kind of look at me, like, why are you not more excited about this? Like, you should be head over heels for this. But also, I just sort of see like the short shelf life of it. Like, the great thing about this interview is that I could look at the YouTube analytics on this interview

in 10 years and be like, hmm, I made 40. books this year off this fucking interview. And I'm glad I could do that for you, dog. I'm glad I could do that for you. Thank you. I mean, obviously, it'll make more in like the time right after you do it. But like, I can look back on all my old interviews and see that there's still accumulating

comments from people where this meant something to them so far down the road. Not to mention like that person becomes newly interesting to the world and people go back to that content over and creating that archive of content is like the thing that really appeals to me versus doing a live show. show is dope promotion and it's a great way to engage with the community and stuff. You're concerned with your legacy? You're concerned with a little bit, but like you do that

and then it's over. And it's like, it was a great moment in time. But like, I don't know, I just, there's something about events that just doesn't, there's never appealed to me as a businessman to like just do events. I don't really want to throw a party. I'll do it sometimes, but I'll also be like racked with anxiety the entire time, whereas

I don't feel that doing interviews. Yeah. But as far as legacy, no, I wouldn't say I'm like super concerned with that. At some point I'm going to die and I'm not going to even know what my legacy is. So whatever. When I hear people talk about legacy, I feel like it's presumptuous. Because, you know, you walk into the bookstore, you walk into the library, and like 90% of those authors are dead, and 90% of them, nobody's going to remember.

I like that. I didn't expect that take from your... It's about the moment. Okay. Because I've lived a few lives. The BMX shit, I was like, the BMX commentator, personality, YouTuber. etc for like 10 years backside 182

okay but that's a pro writer I'm talking about like a media personality like I was the DJ academics of BMX for 10 years and already like I still will watch BMX podcast and stuff and how often they talk about me not that much I was like sucking the air out of the room for 10 years because I was the only person like

really making noise in terms of just talking shit and being that loud personality and it's like people move on and it's like I'm not even dead yet and I already like recognize that like my prior work or my prior contribution. It matters. Like I still see people who like remember that shit

fondly all the time. No jumper fans come up to me and say like, bro, I've fucking phone you since the BMX days. And that means something to me. But I'm like, I just feel like it's kind of presumptuous to like be concerned about how you're going to be remembered. You know, the people can work that out once I'm gone. I like that. Very zen of you, very stoic of you. So you're concerned about the legacy? I feel like as a musician, you kind of

got to be because the music's going to really survive in the long run. Yeah, it's a little waning though, you know. I mean, this whole shit is completely unnatural and weird that with technology, how shit's going to last forever, you know, up until this point, like, my most powerful leader ever died and one generation later, it's over. But this is some weird shit. Right. And, you know, I got to let go of your legacy.

Like, so that's what I'm doing now. Yeah, I mean, I'm still going to work hard as to get what I want. And, you know, like, I'm a hustle. And, and the byproduct is probably going to. affect my legacy. Right. You know, but that's not the reason that I do it. So do you feel, because I look at your project and I see you got like Kevin Gates feature. Like, where does that cover them? Is that you trying to like seize some sort of like mainstream attention? Or is that just like sheer respect for his craft? Shear respect, you know, I've always, and the thing is, but

I've always loved mainstream music. I think there's people in an underground are always like, man, I'm going to stay under here and shit. I'm like, there's a lot of shitty fucking music in underground at least mainstream it has to cross some sort of threshold yeah quality control you know what I mean if you're like a mainstream artist there's at least a few things that you're doing right to be able to seize that kind of audience and yeah and anybody like writes off people who are just like big mainstream popular artists it's like or even like comics that you think are trash and it's like realistically if you go see that guy performed there's a reason why thousands of people show up to see him you know there's like there's always a reason it's not it's very unlikely that there's

that many idiots so the reason i reached out to kevin gates is because i love his shit. And yeah, he's a big artist, whatever, you know, on my next record I'm reaching out to other people that are big too. You know, it is what it is. I'm not a lot of, I'm not a fan of some shitty struggling artist out of Indiana whose music is

awful. You know, I like good music. So a lot of it, it happens to be mainstream. Do you identify as a Hoosier? No, no. Oh, okay. I'm from Minnesota. All right. So Hoosers said Indiana. I'm just like, I'm just like, fucking forgetting. No, yeah, I'm just saying some random town, you know what I'm saying? I used to have a lot of friends from Indiana, I always make like Hoosier jokes.

I mean, even though I don't actually know what that means. It's like, just the thing they call each other. Would you know Wonka? What's a Hoosier? All right. I don't know, but what is the, what is the logo? What is the Hoosier or something? I kept hearing you talk about Wonka, and I was just wondering, I'm like, it's not the Wonka that I know from back in the day. That's Willie Wonka. That's my best, that's my ace over there.

But there was a fixed gear dude back of the day named Wonka, who I hadn't thought about for like 20 years until I watched some random fixed-gear essay documentary video. and remember this dude. And when you kept saying Wonka, I was just thinking to my head, I'm like, there's no way. There's no way. It's the same guy. But there's probably only so many people

walking around called Wonka. What you got for us, bro? A native inhabitant of Indiana. Oh, all right. All right. Oh, that's lame. Yeah, that's stupid. I thought it was an animal or something.

Why do you guys call him Wonka? Willie Wonka? You got some chocolate? Yeah, look at him. No. Shit. As soon as I said, I was like, oh-oh.

Drink him in. Sounds like a racist joke. Drink this man in. Yeah, you can't see behind those lights or something? No, I can see. Good looking guy. Yeah. Pause.

What gives you meaning in life at this point? Like what keeps you in this place? You sometimes feel like I'm just doing this because I've been doing this for so long? Or is this the thing that makes you feel like this is why life is worth living? I mean, still it's probably just, well, as far as life, that's some weird philosophical shit. But as far as my career, it's anger keeps me going, just being angry. I felt like I've been the shit for so long and, you know, no one came calling. You know what I'm saying?

I feel like I've been, my songs are top pop catchy worthy. But then at the same time, like my sing songs, I think they're incredible. I think I'm the shit and I'm just angry that, you know, I'm still trying to, I'm going to just work off of competitiveness like that Michael Jordan shit. Like, I took that personal. You feel underrated? Yeah. Yeah. that's great

I feed that shit you know I'm you know my whole life you know I'm trying to do forgiveness and let that go and everything but some of that shit still holds its purpose you know

I like you know telling myself that they you know they think I'm underrated because I still got you know still helps serve its purpose and drive my my shit right no definitely is there is there

has there been times where you felt like you tainted your art in order to try to get more of a mainstream audience. Have you ever crossed that? No. No, never. No.

And I think if anybody makes art or makes music to try to just get mainstream and make it for money, that's an awful way to be. Because first off, you're not going to make it. And if you just love creating art because it's godly and it gets you high and gets you a fulfillment, something that never existed a half hour ago now exists in his universe. You brought it out. It's that just is the craziest form of fulfillment to me that if you don't make it, if I didn't make it, I'm still doing something that is just giving me goosebumps and giving me purpose. You know what I'm saying?

So that's the reason I do it. Whether I make it or not is just because I have to. I have to paint. I have to, you know, I'm a painter. I have to make something because it's been my therapy looking back. You know, I'm looking back at my childhood and my upbringing and all the crazy shit. And I'm like, that's the reason that I do this. feel different from making music?

I feel it's exactly the same. I do it the exact same way. Big-ass canvas I like to work with. I go in there and splash huge colors right off the bat. And I say, is that worth pursuing? Yeah, no, then I'll change it, whatever. Huge brush strokes at first. And then as it refines, I'll, you know, boom, boom, boom, more details.

And it's the same thing with music. It's like, what is this drum loop? Do I like this? What's this either sample or what's this lick? Wow, it has to be good within the first three or four things. And then I can see it's there. not, you know, and then you start to refine and get harder and harder and more time consuming type of shit, you know?

Right. Does it, like, does the size of the audience that's going to consume the art matter to you? Because when I think about, like, painting versus, like, me doing a podcast, like, if I were to just sit down and go paint tonight, it's like, I feel like the, the program running in my head is always taking into account how many people are going to be affected by this. And that would make me feel less satisfied with the person. Pate to think. Granted, I'm just not a painter, so inevitably, I'm not going to feel satisfied with it. But, like, is that part of it at all? Because when you make music, you're assuming,

like, millions of people are probably going to hear this as time goes by. I don't even, I don't even assume anything. I don't think about that. I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks or about my music. Like, I, only when I'm creating. If once it's done, whatever, like, how we're going to sell this? Whatever. Once you're done, you've got to figure out what the value of it is and how this could be presented. But you can't think about that too much while you're doing. When I'm making, when you making something, bro, I can't make something. I can't make something for someone else. Oh, how would you like this? Oh, this brush stroke right over here. Do you like, do you think they'd like this? Or do you think, you know, constantly doing that?

No, I do not think about nobody, uh, when I'm painting or music or anything. It's only what I like music while you're painting. Oh, yeah, yeah. What kind of shit usually? Jazz, Coltrane. Really? Ellington, Duke Ellington, yeah. So you're not listening to hip hop or you, do you listen to anything that's, like, close to your genre? Is that, is that sometimes, but it's mostly jazz. I get off stage after a show and I'm taking a shower. I just, wow, jazz. Jazz just enables creativity better? No, I think it's mostly just putting me in a zone of a mood.

And I think painting jazz is good for my mood. Very interesting. Have you done like the tour support thing or are you always the headliner? Oh yeah. I mean, shit, done a lot of tour support thing, man. You know, Andre Nicotine. Oh, yeah. Open up for him for two months straight.

Way the fuck back in the day. open up for MERS. Are you familiar with MERS? Open up for atmosphere. Open up for anybody else? I don't know. But that's always a tough decision, right? Because it's like when you're opening for a larger act,

you're not making that much money. Oh, we ain't making shit. And you're not really like speaking to your fan base as much. You're going to have some fans there. I cut my teeth, though, man. By playing shows that objectively we're not really getting a great reaction. Whatever. Yeah.

But that's like an important thing. to kind of learn as an artist, right? Yeah, in the beginning it was, yeah, in the beginning, that's what you need. You need to open up for people and you need to be in front of new audiences and win them over physically, you know, and then after the show, I would come back to the merch booth, drink with everybody. We handed out a quarter million free CDs when I first came up of a CD called King Gompo, and that's what changed everything.

Since King Gompo, I think I've released five records and all the fucking shit, but since King Gompo, you know, that's how we won people over and we've handed out all of them. Like, that changed a lot of shit. And we lost a lot of money, but it helps when everybody around you sells drugs and the record label is a drug selling. Wait, what record label was a drug selling operation secretly? You want to confide in me with that to the world? Mine. Oh, your label was founded on.

It helps to have a little extra money. It's like murder ink. Yeah. Is he the Supreme? Am I going to jail? No, it's statute of limitations. We've been clean for a long time. We've been clean for a long time.

So okay, but you were in the streets early on that was part of how you got things off the ground Yeah, oh yeah all the OGs big homies were like I we got this dude like mm-hmm Yeah, that's tough I don't think I could have might not have been able to do without it Hmm how long have you had the mustache without having them like for you know sometimes I snorkel I gotta shave that motherfucker off but damn shave it off just a snorkel was hard to fit the thing in there Or what? Oh, you're trolling me? No no that's For real. I went to Belize and, you know, if I want to snorkel, you know, I got to shave it off. But, yeah, I've had it for a long time. I don't know. It was a, it was a weird fucking joke about being creepy and, like, looking weird.

Yeah. And then it just stayed. And then I'm like, my fucking pops. Like, he had a mustache. I just have a permanent mustache. And it's weird as fucking. You know, it's creepy as hell. I understand. You know, Idubs is? I dubs. People say, I don't know who that is. I don't know who that is, but I see it in comments. He's like a super famous YouTuber who kind of looks like I was imagining you without the mustache And I'm like oh shit I'm imagining eyedubs now

Content cop Who with me, whatever Stop snitching him That was his big series content cop He was like tear apart other YouTubers I like that Yeah needed to have it It was a sign of the times for sure

Um Fuck what was I just thinking Is it cool if I just pee my pants Do you want to go pee? Yeah can you cut? Sure Take a piss. For real?

You could do that? Yeah. We're not live or anything. Oh my God. I've been holding it for so long. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me a sec. I'll meditate on it.

Yeah. Is it cool if I pee my pants? Laura scold them. Freshly free of urine. So, okay. What was the cancellation? Like, what were the tweets that got you? And how was this time period of your life?

that time period was hard as hell because like I said I just had my baby just got up a fucking Nick you for you know it wasn't doing too well spent a week in the Nick you you know what I'm saying

he was fighting for his life I mean yeah yeah totally I mean not fighting for his life but without the Nick you wouldn't be here but so and then the day my baby was born

everything shut down so like the hospitals you know then there was that whole COVID craze oh wow you know what I'm saying of wow that's crazy yeah because my girl she found out she was pregnant basically as COVID started so I had like a nine-month window you know so what so what so did people

start digging through old tweets or what yeah yeah so I mean and the funny thing was is it's the same tweets that I left up from when I got kind of canceled in 2017 you know I'm saying it was just old as tweets from 20 30 no 245 years ago and most of them that like the best ones that you know really was the shock value was When I, this is literally from 14, 15, 16 years ago, when I was like watching a, it was out of context, I was watching a comedy special. And I was just tweeting my favorite jokes. You know what I'm saying? So Anthony Jeslnick got me canceled.

You know what I'm saying? Fucking Andrew Santino got me can't. Really? Yeah. So, but at the same time I had an old DJ that had been already fired five or six years ago. You know, I canceled him privately. So. I fired him.

You found out about him doing some shady stuff. Yeah, yeah. He got the ball rolling like a mother-up. It was the biggest domino effect in Minnesota music history. And it started so small. And this dude was right in the middle of it. And it started with one person. And then it just caught fire just like our city did.

At the same time, people were at home. They were desperate. They were alone. And no one was really trying to make anybody better. Everybody was just trying to hurt everybody. was just trying to hurt everybody. I remember during that initial 2020, the summer of fire or whatever the fuck they call it. Now, that was definitely one of the few times in my life where I was like, I'm not tweeting.

I need to stay away from whatever the fuck is going on right now. Like, nobody wants to hear a white guy say anything right now. And nobody wants to hear a white guy say anything critical or funny or, you know, I was just like, you know what? I'm just going to fall back for a few months. And I would have loved to have done that, bro. And I was like, I was doing that. Especially with the George Floyd shit, man. I was really invested in that shit in trying to become a better man.

Thinking about what being a white man means in my city, growing up with all my friends and my close loved ones who are black, listening to them. My house was right by there. So I would host, you know, we'd be in a protest and we'd come back and clean out people's eyes from smoke and shit like that. And I was not sleeping already. You know what I'm saying?

and then this shit comes up and it was like, it was, bough, bough, like crazy. So those tweets, you know, if they first came after my old DJ

that had already way been separated from and hadn't spoken to in five years. And then they were like, well, look at this dude. And so with what you're doing, talking about not tweeting or whatever, like I was obnoxious.

I probably still am. Battle rapping ass motherfucker a shock value type of dude out of Minneapolis. And I was easy target. Wow, that's the poster boy. man, I haven't liked that dude for so long.

This is my opportunity to go get this. Motherfuss. So, you know, the good things happen to you in your life. And as you become successful, it's also, like, filling up this meter. Like, it's a fighting game. And on the side, there's a meter that's filling up. And it's everybody else's resentment about you becoming successful. And at a certain point, once you've taken enough Ws, boom.

You're at the top, home boy. Come on. I know all about this. But it's funny you say 2017, it happened as well. and then it just happened again worse in 2020. I left the tweets up. That's how it works. Is that they chill out for a while and then it becomes new again.

Yeah. Yeah. And so back then I was like, okay, I'm not going to run away from. I'll leave those tweets up. And then 2020, it was even worse.

And then, yeah. So what, like the label dropped you? The label dropped me in the middle of the night. You don't want to cloud them up? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. They were cool. But did you, did they like even seem like they, they actually felt like you were a person or it was like they were just under mad pressure from the peanut gallery peanut gallery. Yeah.

Very, you know, like, look, when it all came said and done, there never was no fucking allegation. Right. Nah, one motherfucking person, you know what I'm saying? Like no history of anything. You know what I'm saying? Like, little did they know. A lot of people, a lot of these righteous rappers and everybody

behind the scenes were, we're doing the backpack, hip hop. I'm woke type of shit. And I was whiling out in my music. But they were doing sex, drugs, rock and roll. I was staying at the crib, like mind of my own business hustling, you know, so then you know, I'm talking to my label, what's going on over

here, da-da-da, how are y'all feeling? They were getting canceled to, everywhere, you know, and then I'm calling them, boom, nothing, nothing, they didn't even responding. We tried to reach out for them for like two or three straight days. They're not responding. This is my management and my record label and my management. Oh, wow. You know what I'm saying? So we were like,

okay, we know what this is. Right. You know, so I think they were hoping that I'd be the poster boy, you know, and they came out with a fucking, um, um, a statement in the middle of the night at like 2 a.m. Like thinking that maybe the algorithm would push it up. I don't know what the fuck they were thinking about with this 2 a.m. shit. Wow. And it was like. But that's what, that's what like real companies do.

You got bad news for the stock market. You drop it on Friday at 5 p.m. or whatever. And then ideally it doesn't really. But that shit blew the fuck. And I was trying hard to get press. it was national news I was in the national news misogyny I made the fucking paper

the Star Tribune you know what's saying my aunts are called what's going on with you know to call my mama up like it was crazy and then that statement didn't really help because it was talking about like what was the words

like not only misogyny but like violence against women and shit like that violence has a very blurry definition at this point this conversation's violence Yeah, violent words or whatever, but... Yeah, I'm so glad we're in 2024

where we can laugh at that shit. Yeah, but how did you get through it? Because I'm assuming you were depressed, probably going through a lot of... I was already not sleeping yet. It was tough because I had never seen nothing like it. I didn't know how to react to it. And I was trying to take as much accountability

as I can to become better anyways because I was going through that shit with George Floyd. But you're not saying the shit that they want you to say because they... Ain't nothing you can fucking say. And you're like, it was a joke. And nobody wants to hear that.

Yeah. It's just like jokes don't exist. Once they decide they're going to cancel you, the idea of like it was a joke doesn't fucking work. Or that was 13 years ago. Yeah. Like the time was crazy. Everyone wants to act.

Like it was way different. Like the internet now is exactly like the internet back in the day. 13, 14, no, now it would be 15, 16 years ago. Like everybody, one dude was like, man, I was really mad at you, but then I looked at my shit from then. I was just dropping an F word like crazy. I'm like, yeah, bro. Yeah, glow.

You know, so. So, but the crazy thing was. was it was the wild the probably the biggest roller coaster ride of my life was um was that delayed they just laughed at my yaglo um yeah yeah um the roller coaster ride from being that being canceled and um you know um i didn't even know because it was after um i couldn't tour anymore the money was low you know i was in the hood there was you know i i didn't know where if i could stay there anymore because you know how things were burning down to five months after that I was at the very top of the billboard charts so five months after the cancellation dropped me yeah I was at the top

of the billboard charts 100% independent released to what do you credit that my um I think my fans I think they deserve all the you felt like they largely wrote for you bro when that statement came out my merch store went wow just went crazy We was just flipping anything we could make to sell that were supporting like crazy. Really? A lot of people read that shit and they were like, really?

Like a lot of people saw through that shit. Do you think the label caught wind of that or felt that? They're like, oh, maybe we fucked up? Or do you think that they were just all in on it at that point? All in on the cancellation of you? You'd have to ask. I think they're still, you know, they were dealing with some other cancellations on the side.

But I mean, obviously they like to make money because those, in the statement, they were like, we didn't vet this guy, we didn't vet his music. Might have been the first record label in the history of the world that dropped someone for the content they released. They released me for my, they were like, the content is hurtful and da-da-da-da. I'm like, that was your, you, that's your content. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you need it, you release that shit. I didn't release it. You know what I'm saying? And so they said that. But then afterwards, I was like, let me buy those records off you then. they still profit into those records to this day. Oh, they didn't want to sell them? No.

They're making money up those records off of, you know, what they said was violence or whatever, you know what I'm saying? Right. I still would like those records back, but... Definitely. But, man, that's dope to hear that your fan base, like, rallied around you. Wild. It was the best, it was, I can just spin around the fucking globe and pinpoint the exact moment.

That was the best moment in my career was that moment. I was freed up. I could release anything that I wanted. I already had a management team with my best friends. We didn't need a label. We shouldn't have. So we were free to do anything we wanted. Fan base came in rally like crazy.

I was in the press like crazy. Now I'm a motherfucker. Everyone's talking about me. I'm in the newspaper. And then when they figure it out, they're like, oh, wait, nothing. He didn't do nothing? Like people came.

It was like crazy. So Potterhorn Sweets was at the top of the Billboard charts. And then my follow-up record, horse even higher on the billboard charts number two rap record in the world well it must have felt great yeah it was especially potter horn sweets that first record that came out right after that i was like i i could breathe would you sign to a a label again or that was that the that was the end of that part of that there's no way that would ever happen and i think even when i signed that label i was like i'm not ever signing a second deal with anybody because we already have i already got what it takes

like my dude i got some geniuses in there and there ain't no reason to split up the pie someone else coming in to take my money. Like we already have, we already got what we want. You don't think that a label has anything to offer somebody like you? Because they do make stars out of people. But at a certain point, artists also kind of has to look at their career and be like,

well, maybe I'm not meant to be, you know, number one on the fucking charts. Maybe I don't need the push that Interscope could give me and I'd be better off running my own shit. I wouldn't trust them to push me. Like,

you walk into these, I've been hollered at, you know, I've walked into these companies. And you're just like, People are emailing and you just like you don't know these people. They're like, oh, what's on the? You're just an email on the list.

And in case, I mean, there might be one big wig-ass motherfucker that's like, all right, this is the most important. Besides that, you're just like on an assembly line with other musicians, not being able to release shit on time. Like, that ain't mean, man. That's, no. Yeah. I'm making money. They will just come in for that, you know, like, yeah. There's no, there's no way.

I don't need an advance. Yeah. I mean, any amount that I advanced that I would have to pay back anyways, I know what it is, man. Right. I've read contracts. I'm a grown man. Like, I'm very experienced already. I know it's not that.

Yeah. It's funny because, like, I've never signed an artist, but I've signed OnlyFans girls. And when I think about what the precedent is for signing an OnlyFans creator versus the precedent for signing a label or like an artist to a label, it's just like, oh, nobody would ever accept the terms that people accept all the time from major labels. From labels, yeah, because they promise this pipe dream. Your shit in perpetuity. Like, you can't just escape.

Like, no, you're locked down. Like, we got this whole big thing. And like, if you don't want to be, like, that's wild to me. Like, when I think about that, yeah, there is something that the labels have to offer, but it doesn't really seem like it's worth it for the vast majority of artists. And these motherfuckers that you think were smarter, dumb as hell. These people at the labels do not know what the fuck is going. on. They're late as hell. They're doing what worked last year or five years or 10 years ago.

You know, my guy, I'm fucking Mike Campbell. Like, shout out. Like, everyone wants to take him from me for good reason because he's always educating himself on what's the next best practices. What's the new algorithm on Instagram this month? You know, and they're not doing that shit. They don't care. All I need is someone who cares about my shit and who just stay steady and just stay working. That's all you need. Definitely. So when you look at, your career though is it does it feel like a cheapened version of being a successful rapper that there's such time and energy you have to put into social media and creating all these different types of content and stuff to keep the fan base engaged or bring new people in like is that

yeah i don't i can't keep up with jones is with that shit there's way too many like i don't like it i'll go hard and create content for like a week or two like that's what i'm doing here in la you know, going crazy, I'm doing as much as possible. And then we just break that up into a crazy amount of clips, and we'll spread that out, you know, for the next six months. The music video was fucking dead. It's all about quick, good-looking IG clips and reels and TikToks and shit like that. So you don't bother to put too much effort into music videos at this point?

No, I will. I still do it because that's what, I mean, that's my bread and butter if anybody want to take a deep dive on that shit. Like those music videos that I've been a part of and buddy sitting over there in the other rooms have been a part of, like, that's what we're best. step my live shows music videos i'm still gonna throw in money and lose money just to make some cool shit right yeah how much you spend on music video but most you ever spend um man this is we do this shit in minnesota with this ain't no l a shit this ain't no hollywood shit you know we we get people who work well and hard and we make it we put a lot of uh spread the butter thin on you know

everybody works hard so i'd say i think the red man video was maybe the most expensive we can rented a um a gas station on a Saturday. They don't like to close down on a Saturday. You know, so that's really expensive. But that's a rapper, classic. Pull up to the gas station and shoot a fucking music video without. The whole shit down. So, yeah, I mean, we had the whole block lockdown.

That was probably 70 or 80 grand. Yeah. That's most I've spent. That's what I was saying. I was like, I could very easily shoot a music video for like a couple of grand. Or I could very easily think of how are we going to spend 100 grand on this. Yeah. And the value is sometimes it feels a little dubious.

It's the idea. It's the ideation of content first. That's what's most important is like what can we do to grab someone's attention and what's different that hasn't been done. And sometimes like that's a really, really cheap music video. Like I got a music video, bar breaker put it out, I don't know, 12, 15 years ago. It's just a snorri cam on my shit. But I'm like, it starts with me under, I got buried with dirt.

And it starts with me under the ground. I get up, jump into a van. People are naked fucking in the van I'm fucking in a bang bus I'm wrapping to the camera It's only a GoPro, you know And then we take a right and we go over a bridge and I jump off a bridge into water and it's just a crazy shit and it was like a A thousand dollar video, you know what I'm saying? It's lit. That's fire What'd you think of red man? Do they live up to the hype? Yeah That dude is one of my favorite superstars ever I don't even

He didn't even want to be called a superstar, you know? We got him a trailer We're like what's up man? He's a trailer. He was like, oh, damn He was like, I was going to change behind his bush. Like, I'm cool with that. He kicked it all weekend, man. Yeah, he still texts me just like, how's a fan, man? What's, what's up? How you doing?

Right. He is solo key. You know, there's some real geez. I am on the podcast in probably 2017, 2018, and he was so sick. Although, I'm not going to lie, it hurt me in my heart a little bit to just see the fans kind of not care as much as I cared. Because, you know, to me, Redman is just gigantic. And it's like, I think part of the problem was that the interview, there's like an EDM producer

whose name I'm forgetting right now that he's done a lot of work with. Oh, yeah. You remember his name? Yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about. Oh, fuck. Yeah, yeah. I got to find it.

I'm not going to disrespect him like this. Red man. We were just talking about this. J. What's that motherfucker's name? I still follow him. JCO. That's right.

Okay, yeah. He's done a lot of stuff with him over the years. And I don't know, maybe that played into it a little bit. bit too. I feel like I, no, but I had the same problem. I did like a ghost face killer interview. I think it's probably the best ghost face killer interview out there. To me, ghost face is the man.

And yeah, is it okay. The thing about Doc, though, is like, he'll do anything. If he likes it and he'll get his attention, like, he'll just like, he's not about clout or how am I going to make the most money. Like, he chases butterflies. All right says, this is pretty over here. This is beautiful. And he'll do things for people just because he's interested.

And he's not going to make any money off of it. You know, he's skydives. just he just follows, like he probably has, I bet he's a really happy dude, you know, he just follows what he's interested in, so. Mm, definitely. I appreciate it for that. No, for sure. Um, okay, so where you feel like you're at now?

Like, what, what's the future look like? How much longer do you think you could live this lifestyle and is it going to, like, convert into some other type of output at a certain point? Yeah. I think now, man, I'm locked and loaded, man. We got, I'm, I'm sitting on content music that is the best, the features are the best. I'm ready for my Maclemore. moment. Oh my God. How long was McElmore putting shit out before he had that moment?

Because that is kind of like, oh shit, that could happen. That could happen to anybody. Because he was around for a long time. I mean, Run the Jewels was around for a minute. They popped off late. You know, it doesn't, I don't think it matters. But that's a different come up because that's like them grinding and grinding and slowly building themselves up to this level, whereas I feel like the Mclemore thing was just like one song, boom, you are out of here. Well, McLemm went like stratosphere shit. You know, Run the Jewel's went, didn't get all the way up there. I feel like Mac the run the jewel shit was pretty fast. Yeah, I guess I've just been observing it kind of casually for so long that it felt like a slow bubble up.

But I guess if you were already a McElmore fan, you probably saw the fucking slow ground as well. Yeah. So now I'm hype, man. I got good features. Like the songs are crazy. And like we just pay attention to the next year and a half and we'll see what's up. I plan on releasing a record either late this year or sometime next year, just however, you know, we can get the. these features back because, you know, I'm shooting, I'm trying to hit grand slams right now.

I'm, like, holling at the most famous people in the world now that I'm, like, got some juice, you know? Who's the, the goat feature that you could imagine getting? I'm talking to them right now, so I don't really want to. Yeah, you know what jinxed that. I feel that. Yeah. But, yeah, so, like, and I've worked hard as for 20 years. I've toured hard as hell for 15, and so I want to release, you know, I'll finish this year.

I got a tour on the West Coast that I don't even think I've announced yet. I don't know. When is this coming out? probably next week who knows might not be announced yet but whatever and I got a tour

with the yellow wolf I'm doing a couple shows Those are all sold out anyways So anyways I'm touring that But then I want to release this record And I want to tour this record hard as hell I'm gonna hit the billboard charts again bitch We're gonna sold out shows all over the fucking country

And then I'm gonna Shade my mustache and grow my hair out Really moving into the fucking woods Oh I forgot to say this earlier Yeah like I remember a moment in 2016 Where I grew my mustache out like I shaved my face and left the mustache. And I was just thinking like, you know, this is cool.

Like I'll fuck with this. I'm a fucking hipster-ass white boy. I can just rock a mustache for a while. And then a rapper like looked at me and was, I don't even remember who. And he was just like, the fuck is that. And he looked at me like I was just like a fucking like what is wrong with you? And I just remember in that moment feeling kind of ashamed of my ironic mustache. That's my look.

Yeah, but you got to persevere. They'll get used to it. They'll fuck with it. Yeah. That's usually how they talk to me. They looked. If I introduced, they said, what the fuck is one of this one of the fucking? I feel like you're lucky because you're, you have like lighter hair on your face.

So it looks less like an 80s cop. Thank you. When you have like a really dark mustache, I feel like that gives off a little bit of a different vibe. I just imagine you like that. Yeah. And I hated you. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, there's something about a really dark mustache.

Yeah, that's gross. And you also keep this going too. For me, it was a straight shaved, just mustache. Maybe I'll do it for a little while. I don't know. All right. Yeah. Provoked some people.

Yeah. I can't believe how fast this went by. Yeah, that was a fast. Is it really almost? Is that the real time or so, hour 20? Let's do another hour and a half. I wish I could, but I got a whack 100. He's going to storm in here and start cleaning the table if we keep this going.

That's what I was about to do when you kept me late. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Wasn't that late, was it? My fault. It wasn't that late. It was cool. All right, I appreciate you, bro.

Man, hell yeah. Good meeting. Thanks for a little. It was great getting a talk. I enjoyed that sharp interview as well. You guys have a whole thing going on. I encourage everybody. That was a funny one, yeah.

This is the sober proff interview. He puts me, he gives me cigarettes when we do podcasts together. He gave you alcohol. No, he gave me a sick. At the end, I said,

I said, run your pockets, motherfucker. I need a menthol. Oh, shit. Yeah. Now,

he's a cool guy, or a parliament guy, I think for the most part. Oh, was he? I don't know what he was on during that interview, but. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's bullshit. Out here at least. Bullshit. It's fucking horrendous. Let us live, man. That's what Trump's going to win.

All right, Prof, appreciate you, man. My dog. No jumper. Like, comment, and subscribe. My dog, I appreciate you, Prof. Yes, sir. All right, guy. Let's go.

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