No Jumper - Rock (Heltah Skeltah) On The Biggie Smalls Beef, The Gangs Of Brooklyn, Sean Price & More

Starting point is 00:00:00 We live like a four-wheel drive. Play a pot, no, lush to the Uno. I got my dog Diz with me. I'll just start up in here. And we are amongst Brooklyn royalty, you feel me? One of the dopest, most original, most distinguishing voices, cadence, deliveries, punchlines, and styles in hip-hop history by Patna, the Rock Nest Monster himself.

Starting point is 00:00:30 You feel me? Big Rock. One half of Heltas. Skelta. Right. One fifth of the Fad Five. All right. Pete Sean Price.

Starting point is 00:00:38 Yeah, yeah. And of course, a member of the illustrious boot camp click. Right. How are you feeling, Rock? I'm feeling like a villain.

Starting point is 00:00:46 I'm glad to be here, man. Man, it's crazy. This is our first time actually meeting in person. But, you know. I'm gonna just tell you something embarrassing right quick. Go crazy.

Starting point is 00:00:56 I didn't even recognize you at first is. Damn. Damn. It's crazy. Are you extra tan? You extra fit? What's going on right now?

Starting point is 00:01:05 You know, I'm, do you know the first time we met? Yeah, was that. You remember? Because I was going to keep that until somewhere in the middle. But like, if you go set it all, Brock, let's fucking go because I, you know, I met you met you did meet that night, right? At the battle event. You was at my battle when I went out in my battle, you battle, you battle swaved.

Starting point is 00:01:24 You was at the suave? You was at the Swave, that was at the Swave? Dog, listen to me. When I met him, you got to know something else. too. Like, I don't know if I got to tell you this on the spot. But like, so again, like, I don't mean to circle this back into me before we get into it. Yeah, you do. But you're like, I always got to do this, you know. I was really young in, in Lebanon and Beirut when I got put on the hip hop. And I got few selection of CDs and certain people that put me on. And

Starting point is 00:01:51 amongst these CDs, the first time I heard you, was the DJ Clue, Albu. with you in the boot camp click and the record, come on. And that shit was such a big, like, part of my shit. Like, even when I came to America, it was one of my soundtracks, like a playlist that I listened to while I was traveling.

Starting point is 00:02:13 And it was part of my whole coming here shit. Come on. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so that verse is hard as fuck. And that verse really inspired me

Starting point is 00:02:24 because I actually, for a while, took a lot of influence from how you switched your around so when I would freestyle, because it was back on beats back then, we wasn't an a cappella. Right. I would try to twist my shit a lot and give it that little rock-like flavor to it. So when I met you, it was crazy. I met you, but I don't know if you remember that.

Starting point is 00:02:42 Look, I didn't remember me. Because I'm, look, that was also the first night. Like, that was one of the first battle events I went to, right? Yeah, 2010. Yeah, like me and Swave became club. Me and Swave met before then. It's my brother, like, we brothers now. You understand what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:02:58 But like, we really connected that day. You know what I'm saying? And I watched this battle and, you know, I was rooting for Swave. Obviously. Right? It was Brooklyn against, you know what I'm saying? I was out there in the trenches with you, my fuckers. And you've seen how hard I had it.

Starting point is 00:03:13 You got to see firsthand because people today, they don't be knowing. They'd be saying like, oh, you don't want to go to New York. You scared. First of all, I'm not scared to battle in these environments because they're now corporate environments and they're really protected and they're very like money behind them. The shit I was at with you, we was under. a bridge. There was like no lights out there.

Starting point is 00:03:30 It was like a dark little area. And Swave worked that scary situation into his bars, too. He was like, it's a reason this is taking place way out in the booms. Yeah, like he started with that. You remember that. This shit got all my goons and said, you know. Oh, my God. It's the reason this event is called body bag season.

Starting point is 00:03:47 Right. And if you feel a left out, you probably that reason. Like, that was, he had to stand up to some heat. Not you remembering the bar. He's him. That's, you got a real. That was actually one of my favorite battles. And it was early in the game.

Starting point is 00:04:01 You remember all of that early shit. Of course. You know what I'm saying? Before it gets saturated with all of them. Talk that shit. Come on, man. Saturated. And as a, you know, just like, just like you said,

Starting point is 00:04:13 we remember our early introduction to hip hop. And that's like, you know, that y'all's style is my favorite style of hip hop. That mid-90s, hardcore, boom-bab shit, like nocturnal. one of the greatest albums in hip hop history. Do you believe the source gave that three and a half, Mike? No, that's an egregious. They did the, Deshining by Smith & Weston

Starting point is 00:04:39 also got three and a half. Did they have something against y'all? I think the source just don't get it right about. I don't know, like, I mean, they gave Nause the right amount of mics when they, you know, that first album was a five mic album. Absolutely. You understand what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:04:52 They got it right sometimes, but they gave Magnum Force three mics. Yeah. Like that shit, oh. almost brumpt his to my eyes in real life because it meant it meant so much and I remember being on the radio me and Sean P we was at a radio station in Atlanta it might have been ludicrous before Luda was actually a rapper my memory ain't that good though he was a DJ right somebody in that radio station handed me that article handed me that source and I saw that shit and I don't even know I don't know how I got through that interview because I wanted to fight somebody

Starting point is 00:05:28 but it wasn't nobody to fight. I understand what I'm saying? It was, it was terrible. No, disrespect and... I was scarred. I always kind of had a feeling that there was an agenda at that time to kind of

Starting point is 00:05:40 bring it back to the less aggressive style. You know, before that, you raise a very good point. I feel like that's... I feel like that's a continuing... Like, that's... I don't know when it started,

Starting point is 00:05:54 but at some point it started and it's always been hip-hop, has always been at war with itself, like it would be like the gritty versus the pretty, right? And the industry wants the pretty to win. For sure. You know what I'm saying? Because the pretty is less aggressive, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:12 it's less threatening, it's shinier, you know, it feels more mainstream, you know what I'm saying? More accessible to more fan bases and all of that, right? And so for years you watch, I've watched tons of our favorite artists, the biggest ones, start out, gritty. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:30 And then they kind of, yeah. Right. Look at Jaru. Look, look, look, look. Vetti, right? That album was crazy different than what he ended up doing. I mean, look at 50 cent. Like his first, you know, get Richard Dye trying, he went diamond, being the filthiest

Starting point is 00:06:47 we've seen in a, in, you understand what I'm saying? All, all of the, all of the gutter shit. Every, every, mysty, shi-sty, filthy thing he could think of the saying do and those raps he did. And we loved it. He went fucking diamond, right? And then the label's coming. They trick you out your fans.

Starting point is 00:07:06 They go, listen, we can get you open. We want to open you up to an even bigger fan base. And they start bringing you, we got put you on a record with Mariah Carey and a record on with, what's, what's her name? Taylor Swift or whoever, you know what I'm saying? Whoever they could come up with that's bigger, you know, that different fan base. And a different fan base to try to, and yeah, it might, it might widen up your fan base, but those songs don't bang the way your shit bang.

Starting point is 00:07:37 And then, and because of that, you know, the massacre sells less, you know what I'm saying, significantly less than get Richard Dye trying, but it's not just the, it's not 50. This is so many niggas story. I've been, I have the data. You understand what I'm saying? And even you guys, what's crazy is, y'all would be able to get on, R&B joints and still somehow be gutter. I mean, we didn't get on too many of them.

Starting point is 00:08:04 Y'all was on that, was it the SWV joint? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What's the story? That was Wu-Tang. That was Wu-Tang. Smith and Weston landed on a Mary J. Blige. That's what it was. That's what it was, the Mary J.

Starting point is 00:08:16 Yeah, that was- But Mary Jay- Yeah, I wouldn't put that in that category. She keeps a gutter too. Mary Jay's hip-hop, man. Look, Mary Jay, like, I went through a period, like, you know, through my teenage years, years where I was this angry-ass teenager and all of it. And like, I didn't listen to R&B.

Starting point is 00:08:32 I didn't, like, I didn't listen to nothing. I think that's how we all came up with the hip-hop. Hardcore hip-hop. Yeah. And literally Mary J. Blige broke through my fortress. The Method Man record. No, it wasn't even that. It was with real love and all that.

Starting point is 00:08:48 Because she was using hip-hop beats. Right. So they tricked me. You understand what I'm saying? And between that, between real love and reminisce, I fell in love with Mary J. Blige. She's still the goat. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:09:00 But even like beyond the super shiny, jiggy, glossy records, I feel like before that in the source, if you look at a lot of the records that were getting five mics, it was, you know, you were looking at like Tribe Call Quest and a lot of them were. And I love those groups. You gotta love Tribe and Dayla, but they were not talking about that grimy, gutter New York shit.

Starting point is 00:09:22 Listen, in this country, no, this has been the case for a long time. If you black, you need to be compliant. Non-threatening. Right. Non-threatening. They don't, let's... Your opinions better be the ones we give you, or it's going to be a problem. And it's a sad reality, but because it's sad, don't make it not a reality. Now, what do you think, though, when people talk about there's an agenda in the industry pushing towards mass incarceration,

Starting point is 00:09:56 because you got privatized. I heard, listen, I heard that theory. Like, you know, I saw the letter that whoever that person was, you know, I mean, like, I'm a big believer in a wise man knows that he knows nothing, right? So I know there's no way I'll ever know if that's true, but it's very plausible. It looks true. You understand what I'm saying? So to create context for those I might not know, there is this famous letter or, you know,

Starting point is 00:10:26 that's gone around. That was apparently a memo sent out to all the record executive owners. Yeah, so somebody from inside the industry, inside of a record label, it was this letter and this meeting or whatever, this information, this general consensus that they all agree that we're going to take hip hop in a direction of crime and violence and all that because we have a deal with the prison industrial organization or whatever, like, and we sending us. sending, we're going to send all you niggas to prison and we're going to get kickbacks. Well, here's a way to analyze it. Look at, look at, look at what sells today and how much it changed.

Starting point is 00:11:04 Like, do you still get those conscious records like you used to on the radio? So, like, is it people that changed and now they just want to do that? Or is it that somebody is preying off that content making money? I completely, it's the latter. Yeah, of course. It's definitely the latter. I mean, you got. I've watched people stuck in there, you know, stuck in the rut trying to figure out what to do.

Starting point is 00:11:34 Like, these are grown young men like, and they've said, like, what am I supposed to do? Like, how am I supposed to rap? What niggas? Like, am I supposed to rap like that or like that? When the truth of the matter is you're just supposed to rap like you. Right. Right. But what they do, what the industry has done is like, you know, there was a time when you could, when you could, when you

Starting point is 00:11:57 You could be De La Soe, you could be Big Daddy Kane, you could be EPMD, you could be... As many groups that Slick Rick, you could think of that sound nothing alike. You know, there was a lane for all of those things. And as time went by at some point, all of those doors or all of those lanes got cut off and they left one lane open. You know what I mean? And it was the lane where you do dumb shit. You understand what I'm saying? And that's, you know, put on a dress, do some way out, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:12:25 do drugs, promote, promote. The drugs thing is another time. Promote wastefulness. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm wasting money, wasting life, wasting time, wasting, you know, just all of the immaturities of, you know, the immaturies that we enjoy in this life. Promote that, period.

Starting point is 00:12:45 You can get in that door. All the rest of those doors are shut, you know what I mean? But it's still people getting money in those. Like, I'm here to let you know, It's money to get in those other lanes. They just don't come with the massive fame. So people want the fame more than they want the money. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:13:02 And it take a while before you get there. And I honestly believe that's the reason why labels, like by the time I got in the game, it was already this understanding that you're lucky if you get four albums. Most people get two or three, right? Hip-hop wasn't even that old. It was like 25 years old. But understand at that point I had already seen,

Starting point is 00:13:23 LL put out four or five albums and I was like, well, the special ones. Yeah. You understand what I'm saying? And I already believed I was one of the special ones. So that shit they was talking didn't deter me. But, you know, you see this shit and it's like, the way I look at it now, it's like that was the industry figuring out, you know, that was their way of pushing you out before you get smart. You understand what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:13:49 Because when we're young, we all going to do dumb shit with our money. This goes into the age thing and why I feel like there's a whole, oh, you too old to make it. And I feel like the industry has created this thing where they prey on 20-year-olds. Absolutely. Like, yeah, I want a chain. Absolutely. I love a mansion. They're not thinking of all this shit.

Starting point is 00:14:06 So it's the perfect time to actually get somebody because emotionally their emotional intelligence is on fucking. Absolutely. And let me just say this for all of the people. That's crazy. We could be wrong. Right. We could be. We could be.

Starting point is 00:14:19 But this is, but, but, but we might not be. You know what I'm saying? Like, right. You know what? Let me ask you something on this topic since we talk about this. You mentioned drugs, right? So I feel like it's a perfect segue to this. Do you believe there are rappers or there has been people in the game that have been cut a check from Big Pharma to mention certain shit in the records?

Starting point is 00:14:39 Like drop opiate references and shit like that and actually get paid by- Oh, like in their bars? Like a commercial. Almost imagine it like an ad. I never thought of it that way. Yeah. I hear rumors of shit like this. I just want to know how.

Starting point is 00:14:53 But thinking of it that way, in this moment, it does not seem that far fetched to me. Like, I watch content creators every day. Like, when the pandemic started, the pandemic, excuse me, right? When that started, I was in the crib coming, I was coming up on wild new comedy to watch. Like, wild new content creators and shit that I wasn't aware to before because I love comedy and shit. I used to be a grumpy nigger, so comedy is my favorite shit, right? So a lot of dudes from out here, like Big Jai and Craig Smith and they network. And I was seeing a lot of that stuff and all of that.

Starting point is 00:15:32 Recently, I got put on to this other dude. I'm intentionally showing these dudes love because I love what they do, right? Right, like independent. Right. It's another dude from Chicago. His name is corporate. He do like a bunch of skits or whatever. And you see in that, like you see them, like, it's one thing to advertise and me like,

Starting point is 00:15:50 Yo, we selling these, you know what I'm saying? Like, buy this. It's the best pillow. Buy no jumper pillows. They're the best pillows and the blah, blah, blah. But it's another thing when you work it into your skit. You understand what I'm saying? That's advanced.

Starting point is 00:16:01 And I see it, and I see them do a lot of that, right? So I'm sure they ain't just volunteering. No, they actually know, and then at the end of the video, you see the, you know, the endorsement in print. You understand what I'm saying? So it's not far-fetched at all for me to believe that, you know, the content creators of before, You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:16:21 Us, you know, the rappers and shit would be reached out to and being like, you know, promote this. I mean, they did fucking rappers got Hennessy deals and Timberland deals and all kind of other... Seine-ides. All kind of other shit that ain't no good for us. I feel like all those deals are the reason too.

Starting point is 00:16:38 It's like the money because like if you think about it, the content is controlled. How is it not controlled? Let's look at it from an aspect of being controlled. Imagine a rapper like Kyrie. Imagine Kyrie. if he was a rapper and he wanted to put out an album talk about all the shit that he believes.

Starting point is 00:16:54 Would he be able to put that record out? Independently? Yeah, not on a mainstream. Now we're talking about like, you know what I'm saying? Like, so like there is a thing where it's like, there's a content thing and that's how they want it to be because they know this sells and they know pumping guns to people's and shooting shit and extend those in the fucking videos.

Starting point is 00:17:12 The shit's more than it's ever been. It's oversaturated as fuck. It used to be a crazy thing. You know, when NWA came out and when we, when gangster rap came out. But I think it sells because they want. I think you can make anything cool. And that's like... You can make anything cool if you market it right.

Starting point is 00:17:28 I mean, it's true. If they go make killing shit cool, and then when somebody actually dies, people realize like, nah, this ain't cool. And we got to do something about it because we're losing a lot of people and you see it happening. Then people be like, oh, why this shit

Starting point is 00:17:40 happening? But maybe it's because not all of it, but I feel like maybe we've normalized the culture through that, through business people that have capitalized off it and made it a normalized thing in the culture, and everyone thinks that that's culture. Look, in the 80s and 90s,

Starting point is 00:17:54 in the 80s when crack first came out, right? Hip hop was on crack ass. Shouts out the Roll of Reagan. You understand what I'm saying? Word up. Hip hop was on their neck, like on crack, like, nah. Hip hop revolted against crack. It was songs, like originally there are songs old enough

Starting point is 00:18:13 where people were bigging up crack. That song, uh, we gonna crack it up, crack, crack it up. Put it in the punch. All right, stop, all right, stop, stop, stop. We can't sing no more of that, right? What was that dude? Funkmaster Whiz or something? I don't know, I don't remember, right?

Starting point is 00:18:27 But that was a thing, that song really happened. I didn't make it up. I mean, we literally both simultaneously started. Right. They're going to meme that too, unfortunately. Well, hip hop made a decision. It was like, uh-uh, get the fuck out of here with that. And hip hop attacked the crack epidemic.

Starting point is 00:18:43 You understand? And it was not cool to do crack. But it's cool. it's cool to do a lot of other shit, you know, because... Opiates are cool, though. Hip hop endorsed it. They love opiates now, right? You know, some people like to say that that ain't hip hop.

Starting point is 00:18:57 I still, I feel like it's all hip hop. You know, it's different types of hip. It's just a different floor in the building for me. Like, you know what I'm saying? But they endorsed that. You know what I mean? And that's the shit that is, you know, the labels are endorsing. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:19:14 So now it's fucking, like, it's mainstream. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I'm saying? doing interviews on big platforms with a red cup like we don't all know what's in you understand what I'm saying or they will tell you not it's a little bit late know what I'm saying like it's just there there is no no negative response to it or in the right the one that it is it ain't cool enough or big enough yeah you understand what I'm saying a lot a lot has changed and um it's also you know looking at cancel culture, right?

Starting point is 00:19:51 Tiger put out a video Icarumba and he had like Marriachi hats and all that and sombreros and wound up getting pulled down because a lot of people found the defensive. It probably wasn't bad taste. It was.

Starting point is 00:20:06 That's different. But check this out. One of my favorite music videos of all time. I was just going to get red cut to that right there. Yeah, the most innovative Operation Lockdown video was at 1996. Yeah. What would cancel culture have done with that video? Okay, so to create context for the people, they're in, you know, headdresses? Completely native, native, we look like all the way.

Starting point is 00:20:30 Like the paint, the feathers, the garment, all of that. That's just hard though. Yeah. Amazing video and it was really, you don't see videos like that being made anymore, but do you feel like cancel culture would have a field day like with that now? They probably would, like, and you know, like, because most of us were Like, it was just, it wasn't like, it was that deep for most of us, not for Ruck and Rock.

Starting point is 00:20:56 Yeah. You know what I mean? Buckshot was always a little wizard. He might have knew, he might have been aware of the fact that all slaves didn't come from Africa. Some of us were already here. Buck might have known that already, right? But I didn't, you understand?

Starting point is 00:21:11 And Sean P might not have, right? But if I would have got attacked on that, I wouldn't, I wouldn't. I didn't have the information to defend that. They would have canceled this. They could have canceled the shit out of us if cancel culture was what it is now back then. You know what I mean? And a whole lot of other things people did in music videos

Starting point is 00:21:33 you could not have got away with. For sure. Nah. Well, even just like the type of records, because what boot camp was doing was already going against the grain of the mainstream. I mean, so with Black Moon, they dropped into the stage.

Starting point is 00:21:49 Smith and West dropped the Shining. Were those both on nervous records? Yeah. And then you guys were next. Helter-Skeleton. But you guys weren't on nervous, though. Was it, you just under Duckdown, right? And Duckdown was on priority.

Starting point is 00:22:03 But you guys had a lot of, even though Duckdown's officially an independent, you guys were allowed to do pretty much what you wanted and it broke through on a mainstream level. Y'all were played on major outlets. Yeah, we used to call ourselves, It was understream or main to ground. It's like halfway mainstream, halfway underground.

Starting point is 00:22:24 I mean, and it's because we can't, I think it has a lot to do with the error we came in. We came in at a lucky timing, you know what I mean, when bars were still appreciated. You know what I mean? That's my favorite year in hip-hop history is 96. 96 was an ill year for entertainment. Think about 96 for basketball. Think about the draft. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:22:45 Crazy. Right? So, like, so yeah, that was, that was, I mean, that was our thing. Like I said, when we came in, it was like, we, we, we, uh, what was, what was my point? I do that sometimes. As far as going understream. Oh yeah. Right.

Starting point is 00:23:02 Like, you had a lot of dope groups were blowing, pun, like, you know, MOP. MOP. Yeah, you were in the golden golden. It was, yeah, it was, it was like a goal rush. Yep. You know what I'm saying? Right. So it was like, like the, the, the.

Starting point is 00:23:16 record labels was like, they all wanted a piece of it. Like, you know, Def Jam was already existing. A loud, Acquiet Wu-Tang. You know what I mean? Like, I remember boot camp, like, Duckdown having meetings with Steve Rifkin. With Steve Rifkin, you know what I mean, talking about taking Duckdown over there. Just, you know, it didn't pan out. Forget my ignorance if I don't really understand this part.

Starting point is 00:23:36 Like, what, did you ever shine light on what, like, how your shit played out with Duckdown, like, or, like, how that? Um, yeah. Have you ever, like, broke that down? Because I never really heard, like, how. that situation ended up. Which as far as like my separation from that down. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:51 Yeah. I mean like I've spoken about it but I don't mind talking about it. It's not, you know, it's not talked about it. That's not a big story, you know, it didn't go viral or nothing like that. It was just, it was a situation where I'm actually on the song, Rock Miss AP off of my, the title song or for my last album, I talked about it where it's like, duck down and priority split up as they were, as they were split and as they were going through it. through their divorce, ducked down, reached out the priorities like, listen, there's no need

Starting point is 00:24:22 for us to make the guys wait while we're doing what we doing. Like, sending their releases now. And what year was this? This was in probably 98, 99, right? 99, because Magnin Force came out in 98. It was like, you know, some of the guys want to do solo albums, they don't need to hold them up. And I already sent everybody's release except mine. And Drew Haugh called me and told me this.

Starting point is 00:24:48 And I was like, what that mean? And he was like, he don't know. And I was like, so for the first time I got on a plane by myself, you know, travel without the squad. I came out here and I went up there and I went and seen him. And I mean, it's a few stories within this story, but I'll streamline this one. It was like, felt like Brian Turner was hiding for me. I'm going around the office. Nobody knew where he was.

Starting point is 00:25:11 It's like they swore I was about to do some ice cube shit or whatever. Some ice cube shit. I was literally about to say that. But then I found, I located, like, but I knew that staff. Like, you know, I located one of the people that I was really, really cool with. I was like, where's Brian? And she took me straight to him, right? Like, five minutes later, I was in front of Brian.

Starting point is 00:25:31 And what he was saying to me was like, I'm not saying you can't leave. I was just trying to buy myself some time. I wanted to crack at it. Because he wanted to blow you up as a solo artist. Right. we had that conversation and I'm like, all right, no doubt. I leave. I call Drew Ha.

Starting point is 00:25:52 This bitch-ass nigga talking about. He trying to sign me and blah, blah, blah. And Drew was, to me, it was like, you know, loyalty is a big deal for me. And for me, it was us against them. If we leave it, what is these niggas talking about? You know what I'm saying? But Drew was like, that's not the worst. You know, basically he was like, take it.

Starting point is 00:26:10 He was like, listen, the game is changing. It's like deals are not falling off trees right now. It's scary out there. It's like you know the system over there. You're in that system. They love you over there. You got love for them. It might be an easy transition.

Starting point is 00:26:25 And I'm looking at it like I can keep the boot camp flag going in this, you know, in this time period. Right. Because like when Smith and, like you mentioned, Smith & West and Black Moon, their first albums came out on nervous. On nervous, right. They was beefing with them by the time, health of scalp, and O.J. came along. So when we got, so they wasn't, they refused to ever record again for nervous. And to help the scale to no DC, we had to hold the flag, you know what I'm saying? So, so you guys weren't recording it, uh, D&D then.

Starting point is 00:26:54 Now, we were recording at D&D, but it was like, but no, D&D was just the studio. That wasn't a label. We ain't have nothing to do. No, they didn't have anything to do with each other. So it was like, I thought they were heavily affiliated with nervous at the time. No, not, not, only because they did a lot of work there, but not like, not tied to each other. You know, I probably just thought that because the D&D All-Stars joining all that. Yeah, yeah. But that's what it was. And it was like, all right, we got a, you know, now I'm in that, I'm in position to fly

Starting point is 00:27:24 the flag, you know what I'm saying, to hold a fort down. So, you know what, considering all of these things, I was like, all right, I'm going to do it, you know what I'm saying? And I did it. But, you know, that album never came out. Like they, the album was originally supposed to be called Planet Rock. had all of these ideas to get the rock from wrestling on it, Chris Rock, my boy Vin Rock from Nordy by nature.

Starting point is 00:27:47 This is, he was gonna plant it rock the shit out of this shit, right? And you know, like they, they, they, they, priority they was with it. Beets by Pete Rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all of that shit, right? Like, at least one from, you know what I'm saying? Like that was the plan. And, you know, I got to, you know, I got to work making the, you know, the skeleton of the album doing all of the, you know, and I did all of that shit.

Starting point is 00:28:08 Right now, I need these things. and this is when we started encounter a problem because it was like nothing. I'm like, do you not like the album? Tell me something. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm not, and nothing happened. So we stalled and eventually I wanted to be out.

Starting point is 00:28:27 And they let me out. I'm like, I bet, right? So when I left, there was another deal almost waiting for me. Like I went out there to, I came out here to finalize all of that and I ran into DJ Lithu. I met him on a whim. Okay. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:28:44 Like, I was trying to get some weed, speaking to which, my man, my man. What you got a? What rock smoking? I think I just, I might still have a little bit of pineapple express. There's other shit I got. Listen, I come out here, I come out here, and I go in the spots, I go, what you got? Give me some of this for this, and they get me, and I'm going, you know what I'm saying? I'm not a boozy smoker.

Starting point is 00:29:09 I'm a smoker. I'm a smoker, right? But what was I saying? Damn, damn, damn, damn. Joints over blends? I put a little fonto in here because... Let's go, man. This is what I told you last time.

Starting point is 00:29:21 You gotta be a real one to blend this shit. Right. It would be... People just in there looking at me funny when I start blending my... That's very Brooklyn, though. It's very... You just got a blend...

Starting point is 00:29:28 I need that kick. Yeah. It would have been fonto exclusively, but sometimes the fonto is so... The shit don't want to stick. You can't seal it up and all of that. It'd be shitty sometimes. So you use this to...

Starting point is 00:29:41 took as a band-aid and then after that, I just started using less. Once I realized that I was actually addicted to tobacco leaf, I started, I'm like, oh, shit. So I started using less of defanto, but I need that taste in there. Like, I got this thing. That kick. So you had the situation with DJ Lethal then? Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:01 And, yeah, and that happened. And what a lot of people don't know was like, there exists on files somewhere. A Headsain Ready Part 3. Wow, with the whole boot camp clicks. Yes, yes. With the great eight plus, the representatives, I believe I got Doc Holliday on there. So like the extended boot camp click, not just the core members.

Starting point is 00:30:23 Because that's the type of shit I was on. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, just making it like. Right, like I'm carrying the flag, I'm gonna make it bigger. You understand what I'm saying? I like that. I like that. Because I could do what I want.

Starting point is 00:30:34 I don't got to ask rock about none of this shit. I ain't got a clear. Let's go. And that was my plan, but when I signed there, was around the same time when Eminem declared war on LipBiscuit. And I don't know for a fact whether these two things coincided, but I know Interscope dropped DJ's, DJ Leithu's label. I mean, it would make sense.

Starting point is 00:30:54 You understand what I'm saying? I'm not blaming Eminem. I can't say definitively. He's just a battle-rap monster, man. He got power. He got power. He disses people here, shit happens over there, man. That's crazy.

Starting point is 00:31:06 Yeah, yeah. It was crazy. You feel like that's what is. That's crazy. No, because look, man, I promise you. What if it was just time and, like, coincidence? I mean, it could have been. That's why I'm careful not to say nothing.

Starting point is 00:31:16 Like, I know what I know and what, and I'm very clear on what I just believe or what. I know the difference between what I know and what I don't know. Is battle rap threatening to, like, into the industry like that? Like, when rappers start get the battling and all that, does that become, like, really, like, stressful for the executive? What you mean? Like, what? Oh, I don't know. Because like people, they have, like they're invested in the artist.

Starting point is 00:31:36 Then they see another artist come out and demolish their whole entire product. Like how they're supposed to feel about that? I've always thought about it. Like, that never happened to us. So I don't know, right? Like, I've never been in that, you know, in that type of situation. I mean, like, we was in the situation where we were in a situation where we were in the situation where we diss the rapper.

Starting point is 00:31:54 You understand what I'm saying? But it, you know, we don't know how the labels issue. I mean, niggas is going to feel the way niggas is going to feel. probably going to be some issues behind those situations. A lot of times they are. But I don't know about, because labels is so, you know, labels is putting out insurance policies on the rappers nowadays.

Starting point is 00:32:14 Like, it's like, they don't, like, they might be like, all, fuck it, this is more press for us. Like, I don't know the level of they sinister. Well, since you brought it up, and if you don't want to get too deep into it, I totally understand. But I remember back in the day, because, you know, I'm a die-hard fan.

Starting point is 00:32:34 And, like, you know, and I used to, I used to be like, damn, like, I wish I was, like, my grandfather's from Brooklyn. I, low-key wish I was from Brooklyn, too, being from L.A. and all that. But I remember when there was friction between y'all and Biggie and the whole bad boy thing and the OGC video, you know, they straight up diss Biggie. There was, like, a fake Biggie in the video that were clowning and all that. Like, what's like the, can you talk about that? at all and how that played out?

Starting point is 00:33:03 I can talk about it, but every time I talk about this shit, me and my boy Strain wanted to have an argument. Instead, I cannot answer this question right by him for whatever, but the truth of the matter is yes, that happened. And I mean, it was over a song, you know, where... Oh, you could be as good as the best of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, so, you know...

Starting point is 00:33:25 Over the beat? No, no, the lyric. And, you know, in hindsight it's 2020, because we all feel, I know all the boot camp members, we feel a little bit of stupid about this because it's not like it wasn't our line to begin with. We stole it from a reggae record. You understand what I'm saying? We ain't jack it, but we, you know, we, but in our defense, hip hop is hip hop. And there are some unwritten, if I'm a producer and you're a producer, right, we make beats.

Starting point is 00:33:51 And I caught a sample from the Isley brothers that nobody caught, except you. And you hear it. Are you not going to tell me? Oh, shit, I caught that. I already flipped that. I already flipped that. I just caught that part, blah, blah, blah. I've seen that happen a thousand times, right?

Starting point is 00:34:05 So with that, because that's just hip-hop courtesy. And you were already cool. I know a lot of, a lot of boot camps from bed style. No, not a lot, only one of us. Is it a tech or steel, right? The rest of us are from Brownsville. Okay, yeah. But I don't seen that happen a million times with producers.

Starting point is 00:34:20 You understand? I'm saying, oh, yeah, I caught that. I chopped the other part. And then they do their little. As rapers, we do the same thing. Yeah. Like, if you got a punchline, a fucking, a, I don't know, a James Baum punchline that sounds similar.

Starting point is 00:34:35 Look, I did a song of Rockness AP, and Inspector Deck is on the song, right? I said, one of my punch lines, something about an official and the whistle was, something like that, he was like, yo, immediately he told me, I got a line like that, I said it like this, blah, blah, blah. So don't nobody accuse the other person to buy it. It's common hip-hop courtesy. So by not doing it, we didn't get that or whatever. So we felt like, you know, it was the bullshit.

Starting point is 00:35:03 So y'all had it on a record first. And then him on the, and then Biggie on the Get Money remix, I believe. Right. He had the hook. You could be as good as the best of them. And then y'all, somebody in the camp felt some type of way about it.

Starting point is 00:35:19 Who is it? I'm assuming it was String. Excuse me. I mean, it was OGC. Yeah, it was OGC. I mean, somebody in OGC. So String or Louisville or Top Dog. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:35:29 And then, because, you know, Because I always like, I wondered if it was that or if it was just on some Brooklyn street shit. You know what I mean? It was that. It was silly, but it got out of hand. And yeah, that was the thing. Like, there were multiple incidents. People don't know about all of the incidents.

Starting point is 00:35:46 Yeah, I was about to say, did it spill into some? Yeah, there was an incident. No, it's like, yeah, there was an incident. Anything we could talk about? Huh? Anything we can talk about? I mean, listen. It's a statue of limitation.

Starting point is 00:35:56 No, listen, listen, no. 25 years ago. It's like, strain got jumped. You understand what I'm saying? And that shit was, you know, we kind of never really got over that. Right. To this day, because that shit didn't play out

Starting point is 00:36:09 the way normal shit's supposed to play out with homies. Right. You understand what I'm saying? So it's still a little bit of uneasiness about that on that topic to this day, in boot camp. Right. You understand what I'm saying? But, like, there was another event.

Starting point is 00:36:25 There was an event at the tunnel. They used to have this, this event called Hot Night Backstage, Hot 97 used to throw the event at the tunnel. And we had a running with them there. You know what I'm saying? And I was there for that. With the bad boy camp. So I could speak about it.

Starting point is 00:36:40 It was, yeah, like with the junior mafia and blah, blah, blah, and that shit. And it was a situation where we were all, boot camp were already banned from Hot 97. It was like, we was dead. We wasn't even supposed to be in there, right? You understand what I'm saying? But, you know, we had, you know, some people actually liked this or whatever. Drew Howe was able to pull a call a couple of favorites, and we had a couple of, you know what I mean, a couple of, a few of us in there. It was six of us.

Starting point is 00:37:10 It was, Smith and Wesson, me, Ruck was barred. He couldn't go. It wasn't fucking with Sean P. Right? Buckshot and Buck's brother. And we was in there. And we had a running with the junior mafia. It didn't get violent.

Starting point is 00:37:25 Understand what I'm saying? It was a bunch of, you know, it was a bunch of words. was a bunch of posturing and all of that. Like it could have went and they had numbers. We would have probably lost that night, right? But anyway, but security, you know, intervened. They seen the scene building and all of that, you know what I'm saying? And that happened.

Starting point is 00:37:43 And even that night, I hate it the way that night turned. I was like, what the fuck? You know what I'm saying? It was weird, right? So then it event, the next incident that happened was what happened to string and somebody, you know what I mean, alerted junior mafia niggas to the fact that boot camp was in D&D studio at a certain time, and niggas ran, and I was in the studio that night, but I left.

Starting point is 00:38:09 We used to have this thing called Pulling the Ruck. It was basically that. It was basically the Irish goodbye. Ruck was, Ruck made it. He made that shit famous. We didn't even know it was such a thing. So we called it pulling the ruck. I like it.

Starting point is 00:38:23 You know what I'm saying? It's annoying to have to say goodbye. Right. He was like, I'm gone. Years later, he was like, I did that because, you know, you niggas would be, if I'm leaving, you're going to be like, nah, either try to get me this day or feel like y'all got to leave too. So I'm going to just, I'm going to do y'all all the favor and myself, and I'm just get the fuck out of here. So we just started calling and pulling the ruck.

Starting point is 00:38:42 And eventually we all started doing it. And they're like, you were at, rock? I pulled the ruck. And you just, and niggies just got it, right? I pulled the ruck that night. I was on the phone in the studio with a chick, salute to her, my home girl. because, you know, we used to date back then, and she put together the right combination of words,

Starting point is 00:39:01 and I was out. Yeah. Understand what I'm saying? I left. But if I would have stayed, I'm almost sure the outcome would have been worse. Yeah. You understand what I'm saying? So, and it was, and the outcome wasn't good.

Starting point is 00:39:13 And they caught him slipping outside the stew? No, in the studio. In the studio, like, like, in the studio, and where you gotta get buzzed in and all of that shit. You understand what I'm saying? So it was like, somebody let them niggas in. And this, that, and the third. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:27 So that's why I don't like talking about it. Understandable. Understandable. And, yeah. But that is what it is. And it's crazy because there is a recent podcast where, you know, with the Cocoa Bees, with Smith and Wes over there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:41 And they, you know, people were getting a little incensed about it and people were saying. On the math. Right. Salute the math. Right. And they was talking about it. Shout some math. You feel me?

Starting point is 00:39:52 Yeah. Shout out the math. Yeah. Yeah. I forget these things. I'm like, yeah. No, man, me and Math were Sean Price's favorite battlers too. We were his favorite.

Starting point is 00:40:05 And, no, math was always my favorite battle. Right. From Jump, right? Because he kind of brought me into it, but like, his battle went viral and I started watching. Inverse Iron. That was an amazing battle. That was a whole-

Starting point is 00:40:18 I'm talking about the dose battle. Oh, shit. It went viral. Because I'm- Yeah, everybody saw that on it. Yeah, and I wasn't, impressed because Math didn't even really get the rap in that bad. And let's be real, those did have an amazing bar in there, the click, clack, bow, turn

Starting point is 00:40:32 your dome to a stadium. It was okay. Chrome to your cranium, dome to a stadium? That's hard. You got, hey, bro, I love how Brooklyn sticks together. No, it's not that. You can't fuck with Brooklyn. It's not that.

Starting point is 00:40:42 As a rapper... I wish LA was like this. As a rapper, shit, Brooklyn niggas, we wish y'all, we... Listen. What? People in LA don't fuck with each other at all. But when we see it... You're like, fuck that.

Starting point is 00:40:53 No, but when we see it... see it, like New York as a whole, we feel like everybody got better unity than we do. You understand what I'm saying? Because New York is like a really, you can't even consider it, like compare it to just LA. There's so many boroughs that are so different from each other. I definitely. Brooklyn, New York is literally like, I think, the fourth or fifth biggest city in America,

Starting point is 00:41:14 just Brooklyn. Right. Not so. Brooklyn's its own. It's a planet. But now what I was about to. Now, but the dome to the state. This is what I think.

Starting point is 00:41:22 Like, one time. Chrome to a crane. Back then, it was the delivery, the cadence of it for back then. No, the delivery was dope. No, it was a good bar. The delivery was dope, but it's just like, what, as a rapper, you hear so much crazier shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, a nigga, like, somebody, a quote to me, like, one time somebody said to me, he was like, he quoted a Nas Bar.

Starting point is 00:41:45 It was like, when I was 12, I went to hell for snuffing Jesus. And niggers loved that. I feel like, but rappers feel like that was dope, but it was. the illest shit we heard, Naza said way illish shit than that. For sure. You understand what I'm saying? And probably even on that verse. You understand what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:42:02 But to people who don't do this, you don't build bars for a living or a hobby, you know, certain things are like Jesus is a figure we all know and have heard of, right? So when you say that line, it strikes a chord with people. But it's a very easy line to come up with. You understand? Right. This has said some shit that, to me, if some shit, like, it's a skill to say some things that you're going to catch right away. But to go over your head bars where I know you're going to catch it later.

Starting point is 00:42:37 That's a skill too. I think I set a bar like that in the battle. For sure. And the thing is. In that battle. I'm sure you did. You do all the time. I think I had the disaster as evil like attaching a Catholic cathedral to the back of a preschool.

Starting point is 00:42:50 That shoes Come on Yeah Like and think of what he And think about what was done I'm the best rapper on earth Just by the way Not better than me

Starting point is 00:43:00 But I'll take that right I love it I love it man You got the battle rap No What it's dope though Is like what he said there Just how many syllables

Starting point is 00:43:08 He made rhyme And how many times he did that You know when I was 12 When I was 12 I went to hell for snuffing In Jesus 12 in hell rhyme And Jesus

Starting point is 00:43:17 That rhymes It's like a nursery rhyme Right It's not that. Also, keeping in mind that was 1922. And he was a kid, too. Yeah. He was a kid, too.

Starting point is 00:43:26 Yeah. And he was like 17. But what a, but I still believe that he had better balls on that. No. And I don't disagree. And even math, the only thing you squeeze is your feet and your little brother's shoes. I thought that was hard. That was a hard.

Starting point is 00:43:39 That was a good lie. That was a good lie. But the whole reason I brought. I can say positive things. The whole reason I, that's very big of you. That was a good. The whole reason I brought that up is because I feel like everyone in that podcast missed something really key.

Starting point is 00:43:52 They're like, they're tripping on Smith and Weston for riding with Pock and fucking with Pock. But like, do y'all not remember that BCC had beef with Biggie? Yeah, but the truth about that, that's like a huge thing to not mention. Yeah, but the truth about the matter is, it wasn't all of them, they wasn't tripping on them about that. It was just bigger.

Starting point is 00:44:13 Bigger just said, salute the Bigger. It's important for me to say I fuck with Bigger, that's my boy, right? But Bigger said, he was like, it was, It was him that said, we thought people in New York thought y'all was traders and all of that. And, you know, when you young, you feel like your circle is the world. You know, if it's prevalent in your hood, it might feel like it's prevalent everywhere. Yeah, that's your world when you. Right.

Starting point is 00:44:37 I promise you, I never heard that. I'm surprised to hear that as well. I never heard that. And I've always been the closest thing to Smith & Weston since the day they came in the game. You understand? With their first single on the B side, I'm the, I'm talking all, I did the whole intro. Right. Understand what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:44:55 Right. Like, I've always been standing right next to them. I never heard that. Ever. You know what I mean? So when Bigger first said that, Tech was just like, he was like, me fuck out of here. And he ignored it. He kept making whatever point he was making.

Starting point is 00:45:11 It was when Bigger was speaking about the Pock said, talking about killing New York babies. And niggas like, he never said that. I didn't hear that. What I assume he was talking about was when Pock said, my foo-fo make sure all y'all kids don't grow. Come on. No, because I did hear that. Come on, killing New York babies.

Starting point is 00:45:28 Look, I heard that get mentioned briefly in their argument, a debate, right? But it never came back up. It was still like, what are you talking about? I never heard them. Not in those words that bigger was using. But I assume that those was the word. He was talking about a specific person. He was talking about a specific person or persons.

Starting point is 00:45:46 Right. You know, anybody who want to be a part of bad. You know, if you want, if you want, as a label, as a staff. Or a motherfucking crew. Right. And if you want to be down with them, fuck you too. He was being very specific, though. And then my Don Chino got a straight shot.

Starting point is 00:45:59 Right, right, right, right, right. But he wasn't saying, if you're from New York, fuck you, your kids and all of that. Fox's from New York. Right. And that was the thing, that was what Smith & Weston could not get behind. Right. So even when Steele got up and mediated, gave him a hug and all of that, Bigger said, you know, you know, yes, it's, yes, it's,

Starting point is 00:46:18 is all love. And he, you know, it was all, it was a, it was a beautiful moment for a second, but bigger felt he, he, he wanted to still drive his point home. Yeah. He's like, yo, it's all love, but you know it's true. He said that and still is like, nah, I can't co-sign that. And tech was like, nah, you know, and I didn't see the exact moment when tech snatched, but I know from the time still stood up to talk the bigger tech stood up. Right. You understand what I'm saying? Because like, awesome, we don't know where this is going, I know where I'm going if it go where I don't like it to go. Type of vibe, right?

Starting point is 00:46:52 Just protecting his brother. You understand what I'm saying? It's only right, whatever. But yeah, like, it wasn't no malice. It was just biggest saying what he said from his world. And I said this, and I'm going to keep saying this until people get it. Being a rapper is one of the strangest professions you can have. In this fact, a person could walk up on you that doesn't.

Starting point is 00:47:20 rap. They don't want to be a rapper. They don't want to be a manager of rappers. They don't want to own a record label where they fucking, you know, and sign rappers. They don't want nothing to do with the business. Right. They can walk up on me or this and tell us how to do our job. Right. They will do that. Nah, you got, your shit, this, your shit might be a little too bit too this. You got to do it down. You got a little, you got to do it so I'm come up with it there. Now, them beat you on. Now, you got. It happens. They will do that.

Starting point is 00:47:53 You don't even do that to the McDonald's worker unless he making your burger. It's crazy because it would be the fans, too. It's like you looking at it. It's like the same shit as the sports. It's like they be on the court and like when somebody misses the fucking. Armchair quarterbacks. It's like, yeah. But I'm, but all right.

Starting point is 00:48:10 But do these. But when they, when, you know, when you on the, when you end the arena, when you add a game or whatever, you know, cheering and booing is part of that hustle. It's part of the game, right? You're going to talk trash to the, you know what I'm saying? But you ain't going to run up. You're not supposed to run up to a rapper. You're not, right.

Starting point is 00:48:28 You're not going to go, because when we're on stage rapping, right, it ain't nobody telling us how to rap then. No, they run up on us in McDonald's, in the fucking gas station, or at the baby shower your sister have and all that. And they will literally tell you how you're supposed to do your shit. You need to do some shit to come out with a dance or blah, blah, blah, or you know what I'm saying? You need to holl at them Griselda niggas. They pop in them. That's, and in that same vein, right, they will tell you things about things that happened in the era that they weren't there for because.

Starting point is 00:49:05 Oh, that's the crazy. They heard it, you know, certain, you know, they know somebody who, they know somebody who might have been there or the shit went, you know, it was newsworthy. You know, everybody thinks they know what happened when, with the nipsy shit or the, you know, the, Troy Ave shit or the two, you know, it's millions of theories out there. And you may think you have this whole shit figured out until you talk to somebody who was there. And they tell you how stupid you sound. And that's why it's good that, uh, you feel me, tech was there to clear that up. Right. And that's why I wanted to hear your opinion on that. Now, we have a limited amount of time, but there's some very important things I want to touch on. Now, first of all, you got the,

Starting point is 00:49:43 you got the polo bag, right? You feel me? I specifically had to put on some, I'm sorry I didn't rack it I purchased this but I had to put on the low in honor of y'all you feel me well I mean you listen here's a thing it's a misconception going on right decepticons like polo okay so no right that's what I wanted to talk about right right you're a part of let's just say an organization called the decepticons a defunct organization a defunct organization called the decepticons all right inactive organization allegedly allegedly now there's um for those don't know what's the, what was the, because right now, New York's having a big renaissance with drill music and the gang life of New York is going really, really crazy. What's the

Starting point is 00:50:31 difference between gangs of New York in your era in the 80s and 90s with the decepts, the low lives and all that compared to what's going on with this new era of New York gangsterism? I don't know if I can give it an educated enough guess. because I don't really understand some of the shit that's going on now. Like, it's to a different, you know, it's to a different level. And I'm not in it to- I mean, there wasn't a bunch of Bloods and Crips when you- No, definitely wasn't no Bloods and Crips.

Starting point is 00:51:00 I think that's the main difference, that it was more thugs and they had their own, like, kind of thing. And then now it's more West-influenced stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's like. Like, not just West, but just influenced by the rest of the country. Well, you also got G. Well, you also got GDs, you got Midwest. Yeah, but the rest of the country too.

Starting point is 00:51:16 Nah, but the Crips and the Bloods made the biggest impact on New York gang culture. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not, you know, nowadays it's changing. It's evolving into other things. Like, you know, they got some gangs that they, like, some these gangs are comprised of Crips and Bloods. Hybrid gangs. You know what I'm saying? And it's, it's more about your area where you're from or not even about your area, just who, just your affiliations, just who you really rock with. You know what I mean? And it's crazy, but, you know, Other than that, I would say that, you know, like, they don't care no more. Like, you understand?

Starting point is 00:51:56 Y'all were way more down to fight, I feel like. Is that safe to say? I mean, yeah. Y'all were quick to go to the guns. They're pulling up. That's anywhere. But y'all were down to fucking squat. I mean, but I think that was, wasn't it like that out here too, though?

Starting point is 00:52:09 It was anywhere. You know what I'm saying? Not really though. Like, I mean, at some point, y'all like to fight too. Yeah. To an extent, but there are still fools getting chipped out here a lot on, on some. I think it just used to be more like hustling groups, you know, groups, the people that used to just get money together, and they were like clicks and it turned more into like bandanas and gangs now. Like that's the shit that he doesn't see that he didn't used to see back then is it was more of like a New Yorker thing and they had their identity with that.

Starting point is 00:52:34 And now it's just, well, a lot of people don't know that there was gangs. They don't know about the news. Obviously, but I'm just saying like, you know, as a whole now what it looks like, it just looks like the rest of the country. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, out in New York. Like, the gangs out there started just like any other gang, so basically like somebody get fucked with. They band together.

Starting point is 00:52:58 You know what I'm saying? They protect themselves. And then they get out of hand. You know what I'm saying? And the Decepticons weren't no different. You know what I mean? Like, it was started by some of the smartest kids in the city. They went to the fucking, you know, the specialized high schools and all of that.

Starting point is 00:53:13 And, you know, those kids get fucked with. And then all of this shit happened. You know what I'm saying? But the big, one of, I feel like one of the biggest differences about gangs today and gangs back then, or just street violence in general, is the, the innocent bystanders. The level of innocent bystanders, like, you know, people, if somebody got hurt, it was usually back then, they was probably into some shit. Like, if you got shot or you fucking, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:53:45 you ended up in some thug shit. Now, that's not true, because you have the victims. But what I'm saying, like, the victims are the victims, but it's a lot of, a lot of strays, like little kids and old ladies and all of that shit, you know what I'm saying, happening. And, yeah, I didn't see as much of that when I was out thugging. You know what I mean? Like, that was something rare.

Starting point is 00:54:07 I think we'd be remiss to, if we're going to sit down with the Rock Ness Maston to not talk about your, you know, gone but not forgotten partner in rhyme, you feel me, the late great Sean Price. Yeah, Sean lives on. And, you know, there's a lot of kids watching this or younger audience that no jumper has that might not be aware of just how important Sean P was. And, like, you know, from the beginning what an amazing lyricist he was, what an amazing duty was. You know, I got a joint with him from back in the day.

Starting point is 00:54:41 I'm happy to say. Oh, yeah, y'all got a record. Yeah. And him, no respect. And the fact that after, you know, even there's a whole new boot camp renaissance that came, I want to say around 2003, 2004, when, with him. With him, with monkey bars and all those records.

Starting point is 00:55:02 And all his, you know, Jesus Price, superstar mixtapes and all that. And then, you know, when he was at his peak and everything's going crazy, y'all coming together, making more records, he had an untimely passing. How did that affect you? Shit, it was the worst thing that ever happened to me. Literally. I can't think of nothing worse.

Starting point is 00:55:23 I'd have been locked up. I'd been shot. My whole hand caught on fire before. Like, I've been stabbed in my chest by my brother. Like, my mother's of a son. The man who was put on this earth to protect me. You understand? None of that hurt worse than losing my niggipy.

Starting point is 00:55:40 None of it. I do all of that shit two times in a row over. You know what I mean? Like real talk, it's something that you never get over. And because of who he is and who I am, on a day when you feel like not dealing with that, you better stay in the house. You better not go online

Starting point is 00:55:58 because the fans won't let you not deal with it. They're going to see you. You're a constant reminder of him. And if they see you, if they don't know what to say to you, you know, sometimes people just want, people be talking just because they got lips. They don't really have nothing to say to you. They're going to talk about him

Starting point is 00:56:13 because they know that, they know that about me. my life. They're going to be, you're going to rest in peace to pee, you know what I'm saying? I didn't feel like thinking about that today. Right. You understand what I'm saying? So it's like, when I turn my lights on, I mean, the ones in my brain, I know that I have to deal with that shit. As long as I'm about to be involved myself with other people, that's about to be a part of my reality. That's something real that shit right there. That's what I got a song called The Fraternity. It was supposed to be on Rockness AP, but this

Starting point is 00:56:44 song, I spoke directly to people like Bunby, like Eminem, like KRS One. Dudes who went through, the fraternity is the thing that we all have in common. A loss. We all, a loss of a famous partner. Right. You know what I'm saying? That the world is going to attach you to forever. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:57:07 You're not going to be able to shake that. That's the deepest part about what you're saying that's like affecting me the most. is that like your relationship with him when you have somebody that you're so integrated and ingrained with like that, it's a different type of pain that most people could compartmentalize because they lose somebody close to them,

Starting point is 00:57:26 but they're not enveloped in their life like that so they could compartmentalize that. But for you, you cannot escape it. You will be reminded of it all the time. Every time I walk inside a club. Every time I do a show. You know what I'm saying? Like all of that shit remind me of them.

Starting point is 00:57:39 I'll go to sleep. I'll wake up. It'll be 317. That's his birthday. Wow. Like it's all, it's always this. It's a hole you never get, you just learn to live through. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:57:50 Do you feel like, how do you deal with that? Like literally just, if you're having a rough day, you're just going to not go outside type of? Yeah, I'm probably not talk to nobody that day. I'm just stay in my room, smoke weed, watch TV, you know what I mean, shit like that. And that's gotten harder to do because, like, because I have a daughter.

Starting point is 00:58:11 You understand what I'm saying? And she's eight. Like she was a year and change when he passed. You know, so back then I could sit her down and she'd be there. You know what I'm saying? You know, but now she's active and smart and all this shit. She's seen me like her emotional intelligence is on a thousand. Like, she sees me.

Starting point is 00:58:34 I can fool her mother for hours to thinking I'm cool. Ain't nothing bothering me. Not her. She sees through it. She sees it. Like, she could look at me for one second. If I don't get it, if I, if I, if she catch me before I fix my face, she's not letting it go.

Starting point is 00:58:50 She's not letting it go and she's on me. You understand what I'm saying? Absolutely. And, you know, shouts of you, the whole boot camp and everybody. And Bernadette, obviously, you know, for how amazingly y'all are keeping the memory alive. But I think, in my opinion, one of the greatest tributes is the fact that I'm pretty sure he would want you to keep on pushing and doing your shit

Starting point is 00:59:11 and that's what you're doing and you recently just put out a fire ass record I would have to fight pee if you if I stop rap that's what I'm saying in the afterlife

Starting point is 00:59:23 I would have to I would be in this nigga dreams doing 52 hand blocks and my dreams is this nigga because it's going down let's go you know what I mean and it's incredible

Starting point is 00:59:32 that I love the new project you know so you have did Ron Browse produced the entire thing Yes, he did. Okay. This is the album cover, y'all. Shit, it's fire.

Starting point is 00:59:43 Really dope record. And it's real, it's got an updated bounce with the drums and shit, but it's real grimy. You know what I wanted to do? You know what that, I'm glad you brought this up earlier. That is my understream album.

Starting point is 00:59:57 And it's not that bounce to it. Yeah, because people have placed us in the underground. You know what I'm saying? And a lot of my niggas have accepted that. I never did. So this is what,

Starting point is 01:00:08 priority should have dropped in 99, basically. Okay. And here's the thing, was dope about Ron Browes. People know, a lot of people know them from like pop champagne, these big pop records. They forget, this is a dude that produced Ebonics, Ether. You feel me, he produced Big El. He didn't know, nobody forgot about either. He produced, but I'm saying, I whip your head boy.

Starting point is 01:00:31 Yeah, yeah. You know where I will. I challenge anybody watch, I dare anybody watching this interview to go Google Ron browser's catalog. It's insane. I dare you. Ludicrous. How did y'all come together, though? That guy. Okay. My brother, the last American B-boy, Neffy Neff. I told him to change his name Neffy Neff because people would be fucking up his name all the time. You're calling him the Last American Boy Scout and shit. And that's the homie rampage and all that. But he don't want to listen to me. But he's a genius, right? I'm sitting. It's my friend. And he, one day, and it was crazy,

Starting point is 01:01:04 It was right after my daughter and her mom moved to Arizona. I was all destroyed and shit. I moved them out there, stayed for the month, and then came back to New York, and I was fucked up. Because I felt like I failed. Like, I couldn't make what was supposed to work in New York work, right? It's expensive. It's fucked up, right, in the heart and head.

Starting point is 01:01:24 And my man says to me one day, what do you think about doing that album with Ron Brown Brown? It's a whole album. And the only thing I thought was like, I can do that, because you know, not everybody is willing to do that, no, do a whole poon. Does he want to work with me? You know what I'm saying? Because the answer is hell yes. If I, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:01:45 So he spoke to him and we started from that. This album would have been out in like 2019, but, or no, not, in 2020, it would have been out. Right. But we all know what happened in 2020. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah. But it's something before we go, I want to talk to y'all. about something.

Starting point is 01:02:03 Bussing. Oh, right. And worried up. L.A., L.A., big city and dreams. Tragedy, Kadafi and all them? Listen, let me tell you something. I feel like I'm qualified to say what I'm about to say because I don't think that there is a New York rapper left

Starting point is 01:02:18 that love L.A. as much as I do. Like I have debates with my friends all the time. Nicks telling me about all the reasons why they don't like L.A. Right? I'm like, I've had, my luck has always been too, my experiences are too great. All of my biggest checks came from L.A. I had some of the, my daughter's mothers from L.A.,

Starting point is 01:02:35 like all of these great things in my life started in L.A. We love you out here. I know, right? Yeah, a lot of us fuck with you. So when people tell me, damn, Rock, you fuck with that. You're going to L.A., I'd be like, bra, and I'm trying to, and I end up having damn near real argument with a nigger, because he feel the way he feel, and he got facts to back it up with.

Starting point is 01:02:56 So my thoughts go to L.A. What's going on now here, people? I was about to ask you, is that one? why people be saying that to you because of pretty much what's happening. What's going on out here? Like, and this, all right, we're all familiar with this dude Charleston White, right? Yeah, you know who is, right? Like, so I, like, my man was watching them religiously for a while.

Starting point is 01:03:17 And me, I've been at a point in my life for a couple of years for several years, where I'm like, I, that shit sounds like a whole bunch of negativity, a whole bunch of stupid shit, a whole bunch of, I'm not dealing with that. I don't, I don't want to hear that. Don't send me those clips. but recently I stumbled across a clip of his where he said he hates L.A., right? He said, they killed. He said, y'all killed P&B Rock, Nipsey, Tupac, Biggie, Pop Smoke, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Starting point is 01:03:43 And I couldn't, I couldn't feel something like, I couldn't disagree with that. I clicked on it, right? And I'm watching what he's, you know, and I'm watching the whole shit. And I'm like, I'm feeling the feeling. What he's saying, what he's saying makes sense. You understand what I'm saying as far as like, you know, he was talking about all this checking and shit. And y'all couldn't protect Nipsey and blah blah blah, valid points, whatever, right?

Starting point is 01:04:06 But I said to myself, I needed to ask L.A. myself. What's going on? What makes me so special? Because I've been coming out here for years and I feel nothing but love. Is there something I need to tell people back home that they need to stop doing this something? To stop wearing jewelry? Is that it? Well, the jewelry is a, here's the thing. That's definitely a thing.

Starting point is 01:04:30 Here's the thing, that's a big part of it. Because wolves going to eat, right? I'll tell you like this. L.A. has been one of the most dangerous cities. People know this. And just because it looks nice, you know what I mean? When you, when you're in the hood in Brooklyn, when you go to East Flatbush or, you know, these things.

Starting point is 01:04:48 You can tell you in the motherfucking hood. A lot of neighborhoods in L.A. looked nice as hell. But you wouldn't know. For years I was coming out here. It wasn't until 2003, a nigger drove me through the hoods. and I realized how close I was to the hoods when I would be in Hollywood. That's what, yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:05 Like, I had no idea how close it really was. But that's because, you know, I'm not like, rest and peace of takeoff, right? But you know what I'm not going to do nowhere? And I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to catch me at a dice game in some other city. Most deaf. Right. Most deaf. Like, I'm not saying that he, I'm not trying to blame the victim.

Starting point is 01:05:24 No, but I'm just saying, like, I move a certain way. It's just certain things. Like, I wouldn't. That might be your answer. I think that is, that is, but just like, so something to keep in mind, because LA's always been super slimy, right? And social media now puts it more on blasts. There's a lot more rappers coming through here, but here's really what happened to take things to the next level. You know, we had this thing called EDD and PPP loans out here where during the pandemic, people were getting extra kidnash.

Starting point is 01:05:52 A whole lot more. I mean, there's people that have never worked a day in their lives getting 20, 30, 40 bands, right? when that money ran out after everyone was used to having more money, it got very slimy. Schools were spending their money beforehand on guns. All them guns got put to use after the fact. That's why

Starting point is 01:06:10 you saw an increase in the smash and grab robberies on you feel me residential burglaries came back again after they had kind of subsided for a minute. And then the, you know, the funk between the sets really got set off way more. So that's... It's an economic thing too. Like you've got to realize, too, the cost of living has changed completely since it's been. and L.A. has always been fucked up like he said.

Starting point is 01:06:30 But if you look at L.A. right now, combined with inflation and what's going on and how expensive gases and groceries and everything, people are not doing good right now. So when they see somebody who's doing really fucking good from out of town and not giving a fuck, I feel like that's how the opportunities present themselves in a lot of scenarios.

Starting point is 01:06:49 You clearly know how to move? You know what I mean? There's something that popped into my mind in connection with this thought, right? When I thought it. Like, it's not a new thought. It was like, one time I saw on YouTube somewhere, it was some sort of, I don't know what it was actually called,

Starting point is 01:07:07 but it was some sort of West Coast Summit or something like. It was like the West Coast All-Stars. It was like a meet, and it was like a big barbecue, like in a park, right? Oh, okay, never mind. Yeah, West Coast Summit. And it was there. Snoop was there. Snoop was there.

Starting point is 01:07:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah, West Coast Summit. And I heard Snoop say in that interview, we got to come together as one. We got to come together as one, but he was also saying shit like, we got all these niggas coming out here. They're fucking out bitches. They're smoking out weed. They're doing la la la la la la la.

Starting point is 01:07:36 They're coming out here and they're living better than, we got to put a stop to all. I'm paraphrasing. Right. Right. And I think that was Snoop said. I believe that was. It was.

Starting point is 01:07:47 It was Snoop, right? And I feel like a lot of times we as rappers don't know how powerful our words are. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not blaming him for doing that. but I'm saying that he, it would be nice if he gave another speech. You know what I'm saying? Like, made, just cleared it up a little bit. Made another little speech or something.

Starting point is 01:08:06 That was young Snoop to be very. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. Because look, look, like, I'm doing an interview, you know, I'm doing interviews and people were telling me how my lyrics affected them, like, things that I said affected them that I was completely unaware of. You got to know what I'm saying? Like, like, Taleb was just telling me how, like, he learned about putting the towel

Starting point is 01:08:26 under the door and the hotels and shit like that from my album. Yeah, for what you're saying? You understand what I'm saying? Like, I never considered that. Like, you understand? So shit like that, people be listening and being influenced. You understand what I think? This goes again to tie it back in.

Starting point is 01:08:42 Like, I think the labels understand the power, but the rappers don't really know. Right. And that's why else would you see without dropping names specific rappers being asked, do they do the drugs that they rap about and them saying, no, they don't? You know what I'm saying? very harmful. I mean, at the end of the day... It's crazy, man.

Starting point is 01:09:00 At the end of the day, New York, L.A. were the two biggest cities, you know, like, have you added LANDA to that conversation were the three cities that made the most impact on hip-hop culture? You know, New York's obviously the mecca, and I'd like to see a lot more unity between all these people like us that travel everywhere.

Starting point is 01:09:19 You know, I'm going in New York in two weeks. I love what Crooked and Joelle are doing. Right. Shows out of the Crooked of Joe. Absolutely. Absolutely. Definitely respect. Unfortunately, we-

Starting point is 01:09:28 And salute to Snoop too. I ain't wanna just throw you up the bus like that. It's a good point and I would like, there should be another conversation before, um, before tensions escalate further. But that being said, unfortunately we gotta wrap this up. Is there any, any final thoughts, anything you wanna, any lines you want to push before we sky up out of you? Um, the, uh, the album is called ether rocks. It's fully produced by Ron Brown Browns.

Starting point is 01:09:51 We have vinyl, you know, we got CDs. It's everywhere. We got, you know, digitally and all of that physical. And so on American B-Boy Records, get familiar, what are we doing? Rusty Jux Rockness Monster album is in the works. Oh, that's fire, bro. Shouts of Rusty Jux. It's called Crownsville.

Starting point is 01:10:10 He's called Crownsville. Yeah, yeah, that's our baby boy right there. What else? Am I forgetting some shit in that? Let me know. Don't, don't. Oh, yeah, we got a new single that just dropped off of Eater Rocks, featuring Steele and Rusty Jux is called Shark Tank.

Starting point is 01:10:23 And I went bananas. You got a video too? Yeah, it's out. The video just dropped a couple of days ago. Yeah, let's get to it. Yeah, let's get to it. I break your teeth up and take your beeper type of shit. Come on, man.

Starting point is 01:10:35 Another crazy-ass movie. Appreciate that. I'm flatted. I appreciate that. Oh, yeah, you know we know your shit, man. Real sure. Oh, yeah. I can recite entire verse.

Starting point is 01:10:43 You don't always know that, though, because... You got to talk to the person. Right, because look, I live in this body, right? So, you know, I go around, walk around the world, and you come across, you'd be surprised how many people you come across who have no idea. Next. to snap a neck, big rock, or big R-O-C-K,

Starting point is 01:10:59 send them seats to me, squads of three say. You don't know that this nigga know those bars, though. A lot of people, you know, you go someplace and they treat you crazy at the door to the club. You're like, you know that's my song

Starting point is 01:11:10 they're playing right there. All right, it's not my song. It's my friend's song. It's Soundboy Barry. And they treat you. So it creates an air of humility. You know that everybody don't just know that. You know, a nigga don't just have to know.

Starting point is 01:11:24 You know what I mean? Now, these your flowers right here. Yeah. With that being said, disaster. You already know. Let's who know. Rock Ness Monster and we about this bea-bub-bub-bh-b-b-b-b-moster.

Starting point is 01:11:38 Out of this bea-harts.

No Jumper - Rock (Heltah Skeltah) On The Biggie Smalls Beef, The Gangs Of Brooklyn, Sean Price & More

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.