No Jumper - The Bonz Interview: Inside The Mind of a World Champion Kendama Pro

Episode Date: January 7, 2021

World Champion Professional Kendama player BONZ, shares with Adam how he first got into it, how he developed his style and dropped out of college to focus on his passion and make money off it. https://www.instagram.com/bonzatron/ ----- CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5tesvmDS8h50LkjnSAWMOs?si=j6sJD6DkR4mk5NZZWnlK7g FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz Follow us on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nojumper iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFICIAL http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 and adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper. Coolest podcast on the world. And today we're in here with one of the biggest Kandama gods alive, the one only bonds. How you living, man? Big chilling, man. Stoke to be here. Yeah, it's good to have you in here, man. It's been a while since I did a Kandama podcast. I remember I did one years ago when I was first getting into it with Reed and Max and Cooper Eddy. Yep, the homies. Which we haven't done one since, which is kind of sad when you think about it just because when I think back to the questions I was asking during that, it was probably like,

like mega, mega basic. Yeah, you were pretty new in the scene then. Super. I was like still asking questions like, so is it kind of like skateboarding to you where you know you're learning things and it feels good? And they're like, yeah. I'm pretty sure my questions were like that basic, which is kind of crazy to think about.

Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, man. So, okay, I'm very interested because I've hung out with you and talk to you so much about Condama over the years. Let's go back in time and just tell me about your first interaction. with it, how you first came to see it. Yeah, so basically the first time, I remember extremely vividly. I was going over to my friend's house for a party,

and I remember stepping out of the car and, like, looking up to the house, and they had had this window, just a clear shot into the living room, and I saw someone playing in the living room, and I stopped in my tracks right there. I was like, what the hell is this person doing in there? And you're how old? I was 18, just graduated high school. Okay.

I was, yeah, just celebrating graduation. And I saw it, and my mind was blown. I was like, what is this thing? Rain inside, immediately straight to that person, picked it up. And, like, that was a rap. I played all night long that night, next morning, ordered one, and just fully in from that moment. And you just knew what to do with it? Like, you kind of, like, knew what was possible right away?

Or what kind of tricks were you gravitating towards right away? I mean, to an extent, I used to always play Hackysack, like, really hardcore. Right. That's what you told me is that you're unbelievably good at Hackysack. And I never would have made that connection, but it does make a lot of sense because there's a lot of like going up and down and like using that space to be able to do complex stuff with it, right?

Yeah, totally. So I kind of got the feel of like just the general flow right away. The first time I saw it get onto the spike, my mind was blown. I was like, how could it balance? I didn't realize there was a hole in the ball and like it was just mind blowing for me.

But then I saw that and I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. Like I need one. I'm going to order one. And yeah, that's what happened. That's a beautiful thing. So, okay, so you've like described, well, okay, so what was there out there

for you to learn Kandama based on. Like, did you even know about any videos or were there videos at the time? Yeah, I had no idea there was even people making videos. There was at the time a little bit going on. Colin Sander and people were making videos back then. And did you figure that out right away? And I figured it out not right away. It took me a couple months before I even realized any of that.

I just, I had a friend who introduced me and he was pretty good. He was doing some of the more technical tricks right away. So I got to see that and I'm super competitive. especially with my friends. So to see him doing all that, I was like, I need to get to that level as quickly as possible. Right. That is my goal. Right.

Okay. So I remember you telling me that there was a really strange sort of like process that you used in order to learn Kandama where you like would focus on one trick for like an extended period of time and then switch to other tricks. Yeah, for sure. I definitely tried to like master a certain thing before moving on to the next. Like I didn't even bother spiking a Kandama for months. I only did cups and just insane cup flow intensive on the cups and like can flip, juggles and the cups, only messing around with that until I felt really, really comfortable with the cups. And then I was like, okay, I'm ready to go for the spike. And then when I started doing spikes, it came naturally because I was already adapted at doing the cups so well.

Right. I mean, I'm so fascinated when I think about you being in that state of mind and being so fascinated by this. because still to this day, if you want to be into Kanama, you have to like, you know, you very much have to want to do it just for the sake of doing it. It's not like there's like a, you know, there are a lot of like how-to videos out there and stuff and there's all these pro edits of different people and stuff, but it's not like there's that much stuff sort of like laying it out there for you in comparison to something like skateboarding where it's, it's very like easy for somebody to understand.

Like if you get into skateboarding, you learn these tricks. eventually you get to the point where you're doing it at this level. And if you do get to that level, then there's potentially, you know, money and sponsorships and everything like that awaiting you. But, like, I'm fascinated by you getting into condemn at that young age and what you could have potentially hoped to get from it. Just because you took it to such an extreme degree without necessarily knowing that there would be anything, like, really benefiting you at the end of that rainbow,

aside from just enjoying it and having a good time with it, right? Yeah, I think that's why it came so easy and just like the progression came so quickly and naturally. It was because I just really wanted it for myself. I wanted these tricks for myself and like it didn't really matter what was going to happen at the end. Like I just really wanted to just be able to do all the crazy tricks. But you were inventing so many of them. Like from your perspective at that time were you watching those old videos of Colin and were you feeling like this guy's a fucking God? Or were you feeling like this guy's good?

but I think I can do all this shit and probably a lot more. I mean, I think I sort of noticed like maybe after like eight or nine months that I was almost getting towards a level where these other pros that I've been watching playing were kind of at. And they had been playing for like two or three years at this time

and I had only obviously put a few months in at this time. So I definitely knew that I wasn't quite normal, I guess. Right. And yeah, I definitely just wanted to take it to that next level and show people that it can be more, and there's more you can do, and all these creative paths you can take it down. Right. Was there, who were you playing with at that time,

and who was motivating you and shit? That time I just, actually, my good buddy of mine started working for a Kandama company in Denver, super, super randomly. And they were doing a sponsorship contest, and I, like, made a little video for them. It was an edit contest, you know, make a video, enter in. we're going to pick two winners and they're going to be our new pros on the team.

So I feel like I wasn't quite at the level of people who were submitting submissions to the contest. But I also been playing for much less time so they knew that I had the potential to get better and be someone to look at. So luckily, having the home boy who was working in there gave me a good word and good in and I was able to wiggle my way in.

Right. And yeah, pretty much. just everything was just kind of all about being in the right place the right time for me definitely but you were also like you like you've just shown me so many like old videos of you just going to different kandama contests and stuff like what were the early days of like that of that like from your perspective like were was the idea of a kandama contest or a jam or a meetup was that kind of like brand new to you when you were starting and also what year are we talking when you really started getting going this was 2013 when it was really starting to get big for me and I had just got

gotten sponsored by Condama Co. And we were doing this big road trip. We had a van and we're going to drive to all these different cities and do events. And at the very end of the tour, we're stopping in Seattle at the battle in Seattle, which was like the biggest condomac contest at the time. Yeah, on the beach. And I was super nervous to go there because I had never experienced a Condama event like that. I'd never met other pros until like the start of that trip.

I had never met anyone else who played Kandama, like anywhere near. my level before. And so to meet those pros for the very first time and go on this trip and feed off that energy was just insane. The amount of progression that happened over those two weeks, like, just was so much more

than the months I'd been putting in before. It just ramped up just being around other Kandama players. And that's one thing that's like insanely consistent with Kandama is that like you can progress like by yourself at whatever rate and you'd probably be able to learn a whole bunch of stuff by yourself. but as soon as you put yourself in an environment where you're surrounded by a bunch of people, like me playing Kandama with you or with like the people who you came with or like

anytime I've ever gone to a contest or whatever, when you're really like standing next to somebody who's insanely good at this and has put in 10 times as many hours as you have and you're seeing the little things that they do, the little motions, like you can't help but learn from that like the stuff that you, and even if they're not like specifically giving you advice or telling you. you like, oh, you should try this, although there is a lot of that, too. It's just watching people up close and just, it's like you absorb the little things that they're doing in front of you, right? Yeah, for sure. You definitely pick up on other people's style, and you just learn so much from

being around it and in that environment. But yeah, that's really when it first took off from me. We went to Battle in Seattle. It was super insane. I actually somehow managed to win that event, my first event ever. And then, yeah, Kandamako was super stoked, and we were just starting the Kandama World Cup was going down in Japan in 2014. So they were like, well, you just won battle in Seattle, one of the biggest Kandama contests ever. We need to send you out to Japan to try and do this next step, which was the World Cup. But how was like, you know, it was a very interesting thing that exists in Kandama where

you have this toy that is, you know, this traditional Japanese toy that, you know, it was, I guess, important to the Japanese culture for children mostly, but then they never really seemed to have thought that it was going to become this crazy tool that people were going to go crazy for. And so there's like a very interesting relationship, I feel like between the sort of like old school Japanese Kandama players and stuff. And now obviously a lot of the best players from Japan. But how was that meant like did it take a while for the Japanese people to like pick up on it? Like or did it feel like it was mostly like Americans that were really pushing it at first in terms of the tricks? I mean, yeah, being going out to Japan for the first time,

I was definitely, I had no idea what to expect, especially from the Japanese players. I was like, oh my gosh, like this is a Japanese toy. They're going to be so good. They're just going to be so dialed. Like I had no idea what to expect from the World Cup. And then to actually get out there and see that a lot of them are incredibly and were incredibly dialed, but they had such a narrow scope of the tricks they were doing. Really?

That they were very, like, you could tell that these were kind of the tricks that they have known and they've known about them for 20 years and they've only been practicing these. specific things and they're really consistent and amazing at them but when it came to the more I'd say Western style of kandometrics that was kind of coming from us at that time what's the final is the Western style is you would you put like lunars and lighthouses and all that kind of stuff is all considered Western and mostly like the traditional Japanese styles mostly cups I'd say the more Western style is just a little more free flowing form in moving through the

motions quicker and at more fluid pace opposed to really like the Japanese really like to stop when they get it into a position and make sure they know it's there before they're moving on to the next piece. Whereas we're kind of just more like to flow through the motions. It's more. It's more. It's more. Would you say the Japanese style kind of like prizes consistency and just and like simple, clean and clean and just doing everything just right? And it is pretty funny when you think about it because that when you think about Japanese culture, that kind of describes them a lot.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. They have like a very like sort of simple communication style and shit. But then like meanwhile, like everything is very like, you know, you see like a 10 year old kid walking to school and he's like perfectly like his outfit like always looks so clean cut in Japan. Like there's a very certain style. Whereas in America you think of people as being like very individualistic and creative but also kind of ridiculous. And I guess that's kind of like the direction that, you know, the American influence on Kandama had. Yeah, absolutely. But there was like a diehard Kandama.

seen before, like, you said 20 years. So there were people that were really like into it, but not in the same way that we think of as being into it. Yeah, there was the Japanese Condama Association. And they've kind of been running the show over there for, yeah, long time, 20 years. Are they the ones who do the ratings with the... They do the ratings and the ranking systems and you've got to land a certain amount of tricks and a certain amount of tries to get the certificate. And yeah, it's very rigid and very formatted. And are they, are they like crazy? They've been hosting contests for years. But are they crazy? Like, if you, If you land a bird like this, are they, like, allowing it?

Does everything have to be crazy clean? I can't quite remember, but I was in a Japanese Kandama Association contest one time. Right. I think it was for the 40th anniversary a couple years ago. And I don't exactly remember what the trick was, but it was... Don't you have to, like, hold the bird for three seconds? Yeah, it was some Tama trick. Let's just say it was jumping stick or whatever it was.

I had leaned down, and as I went down to do my trick, my string just barely. grazed the ground like that and then I went up and did the trick and landed it perfectly clean and then they were like no we're not gonna count this because your string grazed the ground and I was just like whoa this is like on another level of strict over here that I don't do not know about do you feel like the Japanese like community has like fully embraced the American sort of influence on the Japanese style for sure right because a lot of the the best Japanese players you see that they've taken all those tricks and made it

their own right yeah nowadays it's completely all together like everyone's just got everyone else's style there's no i'd say western and japanese style it's all mesh now and there's just the most insane stuff coming from the japanese community they're just going so wild with it right that was one thing that really blew my mind when i went to japan with you guys and went to that one contest is that the final was you and nick galliger right yep not zach nick just want me leave so make sure i'm not fucking this up

Okay, so two Americans and then, and you guys are both, you know, like early teen or like, you know, late teens, early 20s type shit. And then you had two Japanese girls who are like 13. Yeah. And they're, like, you and Nick were number one and two. And then these girls were number three and four. And they were so unbelievably good. And it's just amazing. It just like blew my mind that like that you guys were all competing on the same level playing field.

because you know you're kind of used to like there's like you know women's tennis and men's tennis and there's like you know women's basketball and men's basketball and like here they are and they're like at least five six seven years younger than you guys and right up there like you guys are all super close skill-wise that that was like mind-blown to me that this is such a universal thing just the girls japanese kandama community has gone so crazy their technical skills especially when it comes to like stall tricks is just mind-blowning. like they'll blow any of us out of the water any day when it comes to stalls like no problem oh yeah the stall game has changed that much they have just so much more dialed than i could

ever imagine being like wow i will not be on that level that's crazy how what's the longest time you ever spent out in japan and do you feel like you get a lot out of it from a kandama perspective just being in the home where it came from oh it's incredible being in japan as a kandama player is one of the weirdest experiences ever because like having a kandama here in the States, like, you know, maybe one person on the street's going to be like, hey, Kandama. Right. But in Japan, they all, every person knows what a Kandama is. And they're all going to be like, oh, what is this Geishin doing playing Kandama?

Like, this is the wildest thing ever. And they want to interact and, like, be a part of it and see what you can do. And it's just super fun being out there. The vibes and energy is just so heightened. There was so much of that when I was out there where, but part of it was like, I was feeling kind of self-conscious, like, are all these Japanese people going to look at me? Like, I'm the weirdest motherfucker on earth because I'm the only. white guy with mad tattoos out here playing

Kadama but like the nature of like the Japanese world is that they mostly will ignore you no matter what you're doing like you could fucking cut your arm off in the middle of the street and people aren't going to really like look at you that crazy because they just you know they keep to themselves and shit but like every now and then I would have some girl just like staring

at me like what the fuck like this is so crazy yeah it's interesting yeah definitely um okay so you said Kandamako was your first sponsor uh what happened with that and what What did you expect from a sponsor at that time? Basically, I was super hype on them.

You know, they were sending me around the world to play Condama and do what I love. So, I mean, I was incredibly hyped and, like, beyond grateful for everything they were doing for me. They hugely helped me out and just get involved with the community and, like, everything I've done. But, yeah, they kind of fell by the wayside or started to fall by the wayside. They're actually not around anymore, sadly, Rip Kenko. Yeah. But yeah, it moved on. It just didn't really work out.

But at the time, like, you know, now it's kind of interesting because you see Condama pros who are, like, maybe getting a little bit more of, like, you know, like, somebody like you're really kind of like the prime example of, like, somebody who could actually be like really live in life as a Condama pro. And a lot of times people are kind of shocked that that's even like a real thing. But at that time, I don't know. Like, did you really like think of someone as being pro as somebody who was making. money from it at the time or someone who was just really, really good was a pro?

Yeah, I definitely just thought it was someone who was really good. I didn't even think, I never once thought that it was going to become a job of mine to play Kandama for a living. Right. That was the last thing I ever expected when I picked it up. But just one thing led to the next and it kind of just ended up working out. Yeah. So now you're on Chrome.

How did that transition from Kenko? Yeah, so I'm on Chrome now. I guess it transitioned. So basically some new guy took over at Kenco. We got his new owner that the guys tried to bring in. And I wasn't viving with them. We were kind of buttoned heads a little bit. He just had different ideas for the brand and what he wanted to do.

And I was not about it. So I bounced. And sort of at the same time, there was this big event going on called NKR. It was the National Condama Retreat. And it was the second year running of that. And I actually ended up winning both of those. And at the second one, the owner, of Chrome reached out to me and he was like,

yo, I know some stuff is going on over at Kenko. I don't know if you're ever thinking about joining a new team, but like we can offer you this, this, and that. And I was just like, you know, honestly, at first I was a little hesitant because I had never played Chrome Condamas. I was only on these Kenko Damas.

So I wasn't quite sure. And the Chrome Condamas, I played a few of them and I wasn't 100% stoked on the shape. But then I remember Chrome telling me, like, we have some new shape, we're going to send you this package and I got this package like a week later and it had at the very bottom in this plastic bag like the very first prototype of a sleigh dog and it was the very first time condama really

like got in the new shape and got a boost like bigger cups and like it was really the first time we'd seen this like big of a jump in the condama shape and I was just like oh my gosh my mind was blown I picked this condom up and was doing stuff I could never thought I could do with a condama and I called TK immediately he's the boss of chrome and I was just like I I'm in. Like, if we can make this new sleigh dog, like the standard, like, I'm all in with you guys. Let's run it. Let's do this thing. That's interesting because, like, a lot of people probably don't understand that the shape of the condomin has changed so much over the years. So that, like, you know, something like lunar, which is like, with the shape of it now, it's relatively easy to,

like, you know, sit in this kind of position. But, like, in the old school condoms, these cups are so much fucking smaller that it was like, even just landing in a lunar felt so fucking difficult in comparison. Did you feel like there was like kind of something less raw once you started playing with a condama that was really kind of meant for those tricks? So did you kind of appreciate it back when it was this

like insanely difficult thing? I used to be such a snob about like using only Azora kandamas and like your tricks are not legit if you're doing him on these kandamas. Right. And I had that mindset for a long time even going into playing on the new shapes. I kind of still had that mindset where I'm like oh I'm doing it on this easy.

Kandama, like, it's not the same. Yeah. But then it came to a point where, like, we're actually landing tricks that are just really so much more heightened, and you can just really take it that much further. And I was kind of being like, okay, this is actually really fun because, like, there's just a whole new door of tricks that just been opened and the new things we can explore with these different shapes that we couldn't before. Yeah. Because I remember, like, in BMX, like,

it's always been like that. Like, if anytime you have something that makes doing a trick easier, is like, It's usually there's going to be a large percentage of people that kind of reject it on the way in. Like with us and plastic pegs, that was the biggest one. We're free coasters, so you don't have to pedal backwards when you roll backwards. Like when those shits were coming out, so many of us, especially plastic pegs, we looked at it like, those are never going to last. They're never going to work in the long term. And it makes tricks way too easy, so we just aren't going to count tricks.

And then over time, it just became literally almost everyone uses them. And you just kind of get used to it. It's like, at the end of the day, if you want to do a trick. you might as well use a fucking tool that's suited for it, right? Right, right. Definitely. But, yeah, I mean, there's been a lot. What are the other major, like, changes?

Like, from your perspective, there's, like, the strings have gotten longer, the cups have gotten bigger. I know you're very, very, you were telling me that the bearing makes a huge difference. Yeah, I'm all about the spinner bearing. That was a huge thing for me. There's a bearing right inside here, just so you people know that, like, the string has a bearing inside there so that it can kind of spin forever easily. Yeah, the bearing was a huge help because without that, you spin.

spin it and then the string's going to just get tangled up. And for the longer combos, the more the string gets tangled up, the quicker you're going to get destroyed by the string. So that was like a huge thing for me. I noticed that one immediately when I put a bearing on for the first time. I was like, oh my gosh, I can do so much longer, play for so much longer without the string getting in my way. Yeah, definitely, which is weird from somebody like me where I couldn't have ever known how big of a deal that was for you before you started, because I'm pretty sure we've always had bearing since I first started. But I'm also, I'm the dude who ties the string or I tie it knot right here so that the string can't come through.

Which, am I the only one who does that? Is that like not very common? No, no, people do it. People do it. Yeah. I'm not about it. I could never get behind that. But I mean, you know, you gotta do what you gotta do?

You kind of keep your finger right, like you sort of tug it. You're like, you do a little bit. Yeah, when I, like, it only gets popped out for me when I do a certain, like, few tricks. So I know if I'm doing those few tricks, I have a little trick. I can counteract it. It doesn't bother me. Definitely. me it bothers me more to like feel that imperfection along the string as I'm doing other tricks

it like freaks me out what has been give me some like highlights of like the biggest like trick revolutions that have happened in kandama that somebody like me might not necessarily realize how revolutionary it was because i sort of came into the game with the a lot of the tricks already being sort of established like what were some some groundbreaking ones that changed everything from your mind i feel like probably like the whole idea and concept of of like instas was a really big changing point for Condama. That's when stuff really just went from like, okay, you obviously have this controlled,

but now you're doing it insta, like it's a whole other level of control. Right. And that's really when I think starts, just started taking off. The flow of everything started just looking so much crazier when you could do stuff like that. And that's a crazy thing for me

when I'm watching the contest and you'll see somebody and if they have a trick to do, they'll just start doing it insta, even though they don't have to, like the name of the trick does not say that you have to do an insta and they're doing it instant and then there's other people who are like taking all the time in the world blowing on it making sure the strings out of the way and shit i'm like those are two such different styles of doing a trick even though both count yeah super super interesting but yeah it's just whatever feels right for you is what you got to go

with you know right definitely what about like all the the i feel like even throughout my time playing condama for like four years or whatever that seeing the way that the taps and the juggles have sort of taken things over. Like, what's your opinion on that? Do you remember when juggling first came out? That wasn't a thing when you first started, I'm assuming? Oh, it was definitely a thing. I remember, but it was very minimal.

Like, no one was doing really multiple juggles. I remember one of the first times I saw, actually, this player named Sloth, do like a six. It was six juggles spike or something in one of his edits, and not everyone was going crazy over that trick. Like, that was big time stuff back in, like, 20. 2014, 13. Right. I think that came out in 13.

But yeah, that was mind-blowing to see, like, that many juggles happen. And then to also spike it at the end. When I hear you talk about how you started in 2012, 2012, 2013, right? Is that I said? That makes me feel like I'm not as late as I sometimes feel. Because if I got into 2016, that wasn't, that was still relatively early. I've still got a few years. I'm not about.

Yeah, I mean, Kadama as a whole, it's very new. It wasn't even really starting to blow. up until like 2008, it was really starting to get its wings and get more exposure. So I mean, it's still really young and fresh community. There's a lot. 2008's crazy though. Yeah, 2008 is crazy. I can't imagine what 2008 must have looked like in terms of like people just trying to learn something. I wish deeply that I had found Kandama at that time, but I'm so glad I didn't because I probably would not have finished high school. Like that's interesting. So you- I definitely didn't finish college because of Kandama. Really? I would like every day dropping out of all my classes just

so I could like sit in the quad and play Condama for like nine hours a day. Like fully addicted. I love somebody who will get that passionate about something that they just allow it to take over their life. Like have you, do you ever have people who were telling you that you were fucking up by putting this much time into it? Oh, absolutely. Like my parents were not stoked at all. Because I was going all in. Like it was my everything all day, every day, Kandama.

And like just missing all my classes, like grades to tiered. rating. Right. And, but yes, somehow I ended up working out. I mean, like, there, there were times, like, for me early on, where I'd be, like, putting, like, you know, hours and hours and hours into a condometry. But then there would be, like, oh, there's this thing in the back of my head. Like, bro, like, this is a stupid use of your time. You cannot be spending three hours doing this right now. Like, this doesn't make any fucking sense. And, like, you know, there would always be that little bit of me that was, like, holding back from, like, really playing as much as I wanted to, because it just kind of felt like, oh, like, you have a lot of other things to do.

Like, this can't be the thing that you're staying up until three in the morning doing. But I like the fact that you never really seemed to, like, felt that way. You were always, like, fully, fully, like, that's one thing that Wyatt Brax said to me, too. He was like, just so you know, like, this is who I am. Like, I play condom. I don't care about anything else. And I was like, that is so sick that you have that singular of a focus on it. Yeah, it's wild.

But yeah, that's just the mentality I had and I didn't want to put it down for anything. And like once I have that way where like once I start a trick, I can't give up until I've done it. And I'm so strict on myself about that. And like I will just, I'll play for hours even a single trick just to like get it

just as I need it for myself. But it's interesting because I feel like even when you, like if you're just trying a random trick just for yourself for hours and hours, isn't there also a part of it where you feel like you're, Like even though like that one trick might not be the thing that matters the most, but it's like putting in those hours of training is somehow making you a better overall

Kandama player. Like if you just keep putting in these hours, it's just going to keep making you better and better, even if this individual trick doesn't matter that much. Absolutely. Any type of grind is going to make you more home, especially for like usually most tricks. They have multiple aspects of the trick.

So you get really good at that first part of the trick. And then maybe you're just chasing that end piece. but then you've done that beginning piece so many times over and over you just have it so dialed by then and that's an awesome feeling in its own right too to just be like fuck I'm like really really good at that one part of this now

definitely in terms of like filming and stuff like how did you get into the grind of like actually filming like what was that process like because like early on were you not really filming that much or how did you get into that grind of actually putting together video projects

I was pretty into filming I'd say right away when I started thinking I had tricks worthy of people seeing. And I think the first time I really started getting into filming was there was this thing called the British Kandama Forum, which is some super old school blog that people would hang out and post tricks. And they had this weekly challenge where they would post this list of tricks. And you would try to do it. And if whoever could do it first would get sent a free Kandama or something. But was it, Kandama was pretty popular in England early on? I didn't know that.

No, I mean, it wasn't. It was so niche. It was so niche. But that was all we had back then was just this little forum and that's what people knew. And we would just share each other's little tricks on there and it was super wild. But that was the time I started to really get into was try to like win those contests and had that extra little motivation of like, oh, I can get a free condomah maybe if I like do this thing. Were you blasted through condoms early on? Because I was like, how long is one last year these days? How long have you been on that one? I can make a condama last pretty much as long as I want nowadays. Like, I don't wear through them like I used to. In the early days, I would slaughter condomas.

What changed? A couple weeks. I think just playing for so long, I have a different touch to it, and I've just become so gentle with my play style that it doesn't get worn in or broken in quite as aggressively. Like, I'm not smashing or going for these hard, hard tricks. And, like, yeah, that's pretty much it. But there's certain tricks that I feel like you kind of like really want to do in grass or you want to do it on a rug and that there's like a lot of other tricks that like there's a lot of tricks that if you're doing them on like rough-ass cement and stuff, you could just really assume that the shelf life of your dom is going to go down a lot.

Yeah, you could definitely destroy your dom. Certain tricks, if you want to get it in a certain spot, like you'll end up destroying your condama. But just as far as everyday plays goes, like my condoma will stay. Like it'll get to this morning point and then just like stay like. this forever. Interesting. How do you feel about the taps? A lot of people don't, a lot of people don't realize that the taps like going like this, keeping in the air. It's kind of hard to imagine if you haven't seen it. I don't know how many like non-condamant players are still with us at this point in the interview, but when did the taps come in and like how far? Because I mean, I find that like a really interesting

thing is that like, you know, there are kids out here doing 20 plus taps in a trick. It's mind blowing. And it's like that's one way that you can progress. And it feels like that that. was like almost like a thing that people were like super focused on when I kind of was early getting into condama. Yeah. And it feels like that is kind of subdued because it's like people kind of took that stuff to the extreme and then like people just sort of back off from it a little while. Yeah, I feel like taps was kind of, it kind of came maybe about a year after instas were like the big thing. Right. Then kind of taps took over and became the big thing. Everyone was doing taps. You'd see it from every player working on their triple taps. And now you've seen play

players like Diblex just pushing it to the extreme and doing the 26 tap, just like you would see Mottie with the turntable, just pushing it to that extreme. Just like with any trick, you can push it to that extreme and just focus really hard on one aspect and just run with it. But do you feel like that's what your calling is, condama wise? Like, do you find yourself wanting to take one specific trick and just ram it through and just do five million different variations of that trick? because I see you as being sort of more concerned with being, like, very well-rounded.

Like, I see you just touching on different things, Condama wise, constantly. Yeah, I'm definitely more about trying to be more well-rounded. And, you know, I definitely want to be able to do pretty much every style trick, but I don't need to do it 26-tap. Like, three, four taps is enough for me, and then I can move on to the next style of trick. It feels like you're constantly sort of, like, pulling tricks from, like, earlier stages in your condomah career,

and then just finding the weirdest ways to sort of loop in some trick you learned three years ago with some new shit that you just learned this week. Yeah, I feel like for me specifically, like Kandama's become more of putting on a show, like introducing people to Kandama who might not necessarily know what Kandama is. And those types of people, they're not going to know the difference between a five tap and a 26 tap. Like they want to just see different aspects of Kandama and they want to see it in this flowy kind of way. So I feel like for introducing more people to Kandama as a whole, I'm trying to focus more on a broader aspect of Kandama and like more showman style type of tricks that I can land within a few tries and like really show people like this is what Kandama is about and you can take it this far. But like I'm not going to make you watch me for two hours until I get this really, really hard trick.

But see that is like a really interesting conversation Kandama wise is like do you want to do tricks that are going to have a little bit more. more of mainstream appeal because there's like certain tricks that are so technical that if you just take them in that direction, you very much know who you're appealing to because you're just never going to like tricks that like you would never be able to explain to a person unless they have been playing Godama for like at least a year or some shit. There is a lot of stuff like that that you can pursue and it's like that that is like a very interesting question to me because you know some stuff like I realized that very early on being around like Cooper Eddie and Max and them that they would be trying.

trying a trick and then all of a sudden like some rapper would show up and I'd be like oh yeah this is like now I'm a homie and then they would completely change the trick they were doing because you know they realize that if you do a double lighthouse flip and you pull it first try that that might be like way more impressive to somebody than like trying to do a five tap and then fucking up and have to try it a few more times it's like that that whole concept of being a showman is kind of that's like a whole different way of thinking about it I guess yeah I mean like don't get me wrong I definitely sit there for hours behind the cam sometimes and like just want to that grind out and go for the trick but for the most part I'm just trying to kind of bring a new

more fun style to Khadama has kandama from your perspective is it always had a very big emphasis on bringing people into the community because that's one thing i think is really great about kandama is that you know all these years being a bike rider and like seeing how skateboarding is and shit it's very much like you know i'm a skater i go to the skate park i don't give a fuck if anybody else is into skating i don't care like if if some kid asked me how to do a trick maybe i'll give them some advice or some shit, but that's not really, like, emphasized in, like, BMX or skating, whereas in Kandama, it's like, that's the culture is, like, if some lady walks by on the street and asked me what it is, then I'm going to take five minutes out of my day to stand here

and show her how to spike it just because it's like everybody in Kandahma seems to take that for granted. They're like, yes, a lot of people don't know about this, but we could change that. We could, like, just show people until everybody sort of knows, you know? Yeah, I think that just came from having the right people. kind of pave that direction in the early stages of Kandama. Right. And just kind of now, that's just the standard. Like, everyone super open and friendly.

And like, if I see anyone with a Kandama, it doesn't matter who you are, I'm going to run over across the parking lot and be like, yo, Kandama, let's like have a five-minute Sesh. Like, this is crazy. You got the toy. I got the, let's go. Like, definitely. No, there's been times where I like, yeah, yeah, because like, especially with me,

like, I got people coming up to me talking about how they're a rapper and stuff. And it's kind of like, okay, cool. Like, I fuck with you. but I'm not really trying to hear that much about your mixtape or whatever. But if I see somebody with a Kadama, it's like we're chilling. We're talking like I'm totally like it's weird. Like it's just it's not big enough that anybody who does it, you feel like you have like an actual connection with them.

Yeah, totally. I feel like because it's in its younger stages that it really feels that way. Do you feel like when you think about the future at Kadama, do you feel like it could be huge? Do you feel like it could be skateboarding or do you feel like that's part of the appeal is that it's always going to appeal to a smaller, percentage of people. Yeah, I don't think it could ever be anything huge like that, but I definitely think it's going to continue to grow much, much bigger, and we're going to have a lot more people into it.

But, I mean, on the level of skateboarding or something like that, I don't see it ever getting that big. Yeah, but it is a weird thing where, okay, like from my perspective, running a store that sold bikes and, you know, we'll probably have a store again within the next year or two, but selling bikes and selling Condamas, it's kind of weird because it's like anybody could buy a bike. Like everybody kind of knows how to ride a bike And like almost nobody knows how to play Condama Until they get into it But like the the prospect of convincing somebody to spend 30 bucks on a

Condama is so much easier Than the prospect of expecting somebody to spend 300 bucks on buying a BMX bike In particular because of the fact that you know I can show you how to big cup I can show you how to spike it's gonna take me like a couple minutes to teach you that And then like right there you have like a couple tricks so you can like understand how this is at the very least like a cool party favor thing that you could like have around the crib you know yeah i think the best part about condombo is how quickly you can progress with it

and you've seen that a lot have like with the new players who have started just within the last three years and are at almost the same level as a lot of the other pros it's just wild to see that quick of progression and even for me i remember when i started like just doing the cups i remember like after two weeks I was like proficiently getting around the cups and I was like holy cow like you came this far like that short amount of time like every day you can learn five new tricks with it so the progression is really really cool it's weird though because it feels like there's kind of like a wall between like the super basic tricks like you could teach somebody to the spike and the big cup and then everything else after that is like significantly more difficult like I've taught so many

people to big cup and to spike it but like how many people have I really taught you? to even like Lighthouse or like I remember like I taught one of a DJ scheme I taught him to do stunt playing and I was like bro that's fucking sick because I always teach people to do big cup and and maybe base cup and like spike but nobody ever really like takes it to the next level so that's pretty or I think he did like a J stick too I'm like bro like I never teach people shit like they never get past the first couple tricks usually unless they get like really into it yeah I think that's crazy. I usually, like, I kind of took this path of playing Kadama where I would like progress just one little step at a time. And like, I didn't even do a jumping stick or like a whirlwind

and took months after starting Kadama. Really? Eight months down the line, I maybe did my first whirlwind. Like, I didn't even think like I just knew like that is way out of my league. It took me years to do a whirlwind, dude. I have to learn these other 50 tricks before I can even think about that. It took me years to learn a whirlwind and I still have only, ever done one double whirlwind and I still just like I just see it as this thing that's like hard enough that I don't really know how to engage with it like I just don't I don't like at one point like early on in the condemn shit I learned like mad stalls and then that just kind of became my thing is like okay I'm just going to do all these variations of stalls that's how I started to all the stalls

yeah but then like and you know what really sucks too though is I have like juggles are like right there I've practiced it enough that I like know kind of how to do it, but I just haven't like really landed it and stuff. And I know that if I really work at it, I can do it. But it's like when I play condomah, usually I'm just fucking around doing the stuff I already know how to do. And that's fun. And like I have to put myself into the not fun zone of trying something over and over and over that I can't do in order to get the juggles. And that's like that's like a very different space to be in as a player, right? Yeah, you definitely, you got to want it, especially for those training.

that are outside your comfort zone, like, especially for those. You really got to push yourself? You have anything like that that's hard enough for you that you just like don't even like to touch it because it's just frustrating? Pretty much like turntables for me. I can't go past dubs. Like I can crank out a dub if I'm lucky,

but if I see it on a trick list in an open, I'm going to be shaking in my boots. Like, not proficient with the turntables at all. Interesting. I don't think I've ever done a triple. How serious do you take content? And like when they like for people who don't know there's like two different types of contests. There's contests where you're basically just freestyle it and then you get judged on it and then there's concerts where you have to do specific tricks like the person who puts on the contest or the organizers will set it up. So you know, these are the eight tricks and it's like bonds and some other dude will go back and forth competing. Dude or woman. They'll go back and forth competing and but it's based on like a set list of tricks. Do you care enough about contests that you're really trained? beforehand?

I'm not going super training about the contest. I feel like most of these tricks, like I've already done what I'm trying to do X amount of times. Doing it 20 more times isn't really going to make that big of a difference for me. So I just try to get in like the right head space for me is really what it is about for contests and just like being in that zone where you're like, I found when I do better, I'm caring less. if that makes sense.

Like, try to just loosen up and, like, maybe have a couple drinks and just get in that zone and just kind of let it flow out is when the best stuff happens. But having won, like, world championships, like, how important was that for you? Like, did that feel like that was justification for all the time and effort you put into, or did it feel like that was cool, but it's not the reason why it did this? I mean, yeah, I definitely didn't feel like the reason I did it. I feel like more, I got a lot more justification just every day just playing and just being like, holy cow, I get to do this as a job. Like that's the best thing in the world.

This is fully a dream come through. Yeah, definitely. Much more than winning any world championships. But if you were to win again this year, like how big would that feel? Would that feel like a fucking like huge weight off your shoulders? Like, I still got it. Or would it just be kind of like, because in a way, it's like, you know they on any given day you could win. like it's not like you're out of the conversation it's like there's a bunch of guys who on any

or you know a bunch of people who on any given day could win it and it's kind of all about who comes and delivers during that time for sure for sure I feel like there's like 30 40 players so yeah exactly just like you said any given day anyone can take the crown doesn't matter it's just whoever is in that zone and flow in that day is going to make it happen right so for me I mean I don't feel like I have anything to prove at this point like five world championships be super sick. I'd be mad stoked to round it off to a nice number like that. But I mean, I don't have anything to prove at this point. Interesting. I paid my dues. One thing I like, well, okay, how much do you care about style? And like that, like, there's one thing that people

might not know about it. And Condama contest, that's one of the criteria for certain contests is basically stage presence using the stage. So if you're just sort of standing in place playing Kadama, then that's, you know, it's fine, but it's not great. And if you're moving all around the stage and kind of having more of like a flow or like a dancey type thing going on, then that will be looked upon by the judges very positively. And you're one person who probably takes that to the extreme where you're just bouncing and moving all over the fucking stage, whereas a lot of people just can't do that. Incredibly important.

I definitely think it's the main part about condominate. It comes back to that showmanship aspect and like getting the crowd involved and like what the people want to see opposed to what maybe the best condama player. is want to see. And just kind of using the strength and like getting the crowd on your side is a huge thing. If you can have the crowd on your side, then everyone else is going to want to back you as well. So I think that's major is having the style and the presence on stage. Definitely.

Yeah, that's one thing that we have discussed a lot and kind of just thought about it at length is like it's one thing to make, to, you know, do awesome kinomic clips for your Instagram or to, you know, make a dope YouTube video here. there or whatever, you know, even even the contest stuff. I mean, that's awesome. It's like a really amazing thing for the community to have like that many good players get together and be going head to head and hanging out having good times and stuff. But like that's one thing in Condama is that a lot of people just don't know about Condama. They don't know what it is. They never heard the word before. It's like how do we take Condama and put it in front of more and more people's

eyeballs so that they're not strangers to it so that it becomes more and more of something that they are familiar with and that's sometimes something I think a lot about too because in BMX it's kind of like that where there's BMX videos that are unbelievably the greatest riding ever but because of the way that they're sort of put out and marketed and stuff it's like realistically nobody's ever going to see those videos outside of our little community do you ever think about that with Condama like what the ultimate things that you could do would be to really spread it and get it out there oh for sure I think about it all the time and just like what can we do to really just spread it and show as many people as possible all the time?

Yeah, I think about it too. What do you think, do you have any conclusions or anything that's kind of seems more important that people might not realize? Because it's like the ultimate challenge to sort of like take Condama and just be able to like make people care about it who don't already care about it. Yeah, I feel like that's kind of the ultimate goal as a Condama player is to be that person who can spread it to as many people as possible. And I feel like it even stems back to the JCA days back in Japan

where even to get some of those higher ranking systems and the Don ranking systems, like you can get up to level six just by your proficiency in Kandama. But if you want to go past level six, seven, eight, nine, you have to have, like, done different things for the community and, like, spread Kandama to a certain, like, that matters as part of the ranking system. So I feel like it's kind of always been ingrained in the Kandama world.

Yeah, that has been a crazy thing to realize as I got deeper into the Kandama world, is that like when I actually started to learn about Joshua Flo Grove and how he, that's his name, right? Yep. Okay, I just want to make sure. Because as I said it, I was like, is that his actual name or is that like a funny Instagram name, like including the word flow in there? I mean, his name's not Flo, but he'd be happy if you said it was.

Whatever, we're going to call him that. But I realized like how much work. he puts in in terms of like linking with the fucking kids at like schools and shit and like really putting on tutorials for them and like really showing them stuff like that's like really dope because that's definitely super super dope that's one way that is just clearly going to put this shit in front of more and more kids eyeballs you know like that's got to make a big difference tapping into the schools is a huge huge move to getting more people into it have you done a lot of demos like going to schools and stuff like I've done a few school demos for sure in

Idaho I did a couple actually with Grove we've done a few together and yeah it's super super fun the kids are always super stoked to have it and like it just takes over the whole day we come in do a condama thing to all the classes it's so much fun that's sick I'm trying to think of how they could do like a condama like TV show that's what we got to figure out yeah for sure I don't know how much faith I have and somebody to be able to pull it off but I think it's possible It could be possible. Anything could be possible sooner or later. I don't know.

It's kind of hard to imagine what would have to happen in order for people to really get it. But I do think that that's like in the long run, that's like, because, you know, I think about it sometimes, like, all these, like, YouTuber kids who are huge and they do different stuff.

You know, there's, like, a lot of, like, YouTuber kids and they skate, but, like, skating is not, like, the main thing that they do. But then, like, their fan base just sort of clamors for, like, the skate, side of their things. Like that's what we need is we need like some TikTok kid who has 10 million followers to like become like we need some some Kandama kid to somehow become like the next TikTok sensation realistically. You know, that would be the shit. That would be the power move for

Dama. It's kind of hard to imagine like like all these kids are so into watching dancing on TikTok. How do we get them to want to watch somebody play Kandama? Yeah and I feel like we've seen it before like couple Kidama clips have kind of gotten that exposure and gotten that clout. But I mean, to consistently do that is something in itself. Because people always will send me the video of the guy catching like 30 fucking 30 big cups at once. Exactly what I was thinking in my head when I thought that. Yeah, that's a crazy one because I've probably had like, you know,

thousands of people send me that clip and I've seen it with like hundreds of thousands of views or millions of views and stuff. And it's kind of like, that's interesting. that people are so into this clip of this guy doing this one sort of like freakish stunt. No disrespect to the stunt. It's very cool that he did 30 big cups at the same time, but how do we

like sort of like channel that energy into making people want to see stuff that is a little less freak show-ish? I don't know. I don't know. That's a challenge. How do you feel about the state of the overall Condama community these days? I know we're having a conversation

when we were in Big Bear filming together where you you know, you seem like you sort of miss the old days to a certain extent where Kandama was like incredibly simple for you and you were just like doing it solely for the purpose of just like being out there, having fun with it. Like I don't feel like you are living like a corporate version of Kandahar or whatever, but is like what has changed over the years that has made it feel a little different? I mean, just like with anything once you starts to become a job, it just gets a slightly different look at it, you know? But for the most part, it's been pretty much the same.

Like, I just love getting out there in session and doing it. Yeah, I mean, even over the last couple of years, there's been so many people that have popped up or, like, came up in the conoma world that you could, if you care about conoma, you'd be able to look at a whole bunch of different people and say, like, wow, like that person is new. They're fucking killing it, and they came out of nowhere. Like, I didn't know who this person was six months ago,

or two years ago or whatever, and they're unbelievable. And that makes me feel very, very good about it because there have been periods where BMX where I've kind of been like, I don't feel like I've seen somebody like really come out and blow up that much in a while. And like there are people for sure, but sometimes it feels like the pace of like

how often you see somebody that you're really shocked by kind of slows down a little. And that makes you feel like maybe this thing is not in super good health. I feel like in Kadama I don't feel that way I feel like I'm still like constantly finding people that I'm really shocked at how good they are and how dedicated they are.

Absolutely. It just comes to that grind and if you want to do it, you can get good. You will be good if you put in the hours. And it's just crazy to see what people can do even after like just a couple months and then to think back how what you were doing after those few months

and it was nowhere near the same. It's just mind blowing. Especially with the younger generation. these kids are just taking everything that we've been doing. They see it and they're just running with it and just putting a whole new spin on it. It's so cool. Do you ever look at those like, you know, 14-year-old kids out there that have 10 hours a day to practice and you ever feel like your spot might be in jeopardy?

Like, fuck, maybe my skill set isn't going to hold up forever. I mean, competition-wise, absolutely, for sure. I mean, I already feel that way. Like, it's really getting a lot harder to win these competitions. Like the younger generation is getting so, so good. and they're not going to let us, like, they're not going to just let you keep getting these trophies forever. Too much longer, like maybe one more if I'm lucky,

but it's not going to happen for much longer. Do you stress that at all? Is there a part of you that's like, fuck? Like, I got to make sure I stay on top of all these new tricks because I don't want to, like, just get left by the wayside. I definitely want to stay on top of the tricks and, like, be that kind of a person, but I don't need to take it to the full extreme

that some of these kids are. And I feel like we still need people in the community who are going to be those OG players who understand the entire history of Kandama and can kind of share that with the younger generation who's getting into it so they can kind of understand like what's happened where it's come from, what's going down. Do you feel like, like, have you ever thought about like a Kandama documentary? Like not about like a specific player or a specific team or whatever, but more like the entirety of it because that would be such an amazing experience.

It would be so amazing. Even if it was just some kid in his base. who like wrote out a big ass history of Kandama and like used video clips and stuff and just made like a fire like hour long YouTube video. Yeah, if it was done properly, it would be so awesome to watch. I've definitely thought about this many, many times. Like just because like the right person to make that. It'd be super cool. And I mean, especially just from you showing me all these old videos that have like 10,000 views, but they're like they were super influential to you early on in your life.

And that was just sort of making me realize like, fuck. Like, I hope Gandama, like, has people, like, archiving all this shit properly to the point where, like, all these little influences don't sort of just end up left behind. Like, at some point, the history of this shit is important enough that it has to be, like, chronicle and archived properly, don't you think? Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like the biggest example of that is this kind of documentary style edit that came out. It was called Where We Are. Okay. And it was mostly just a squad video of like this whole group of people from Winachi that came together and just slayed for the love of Condama.

And it was like this 30 minute edit. And it's so so influential for I know myself and lots of other. Was it the one you were showing me that was like a school project? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I thought was so cool about is I'm like, this is awesome. But this is also clearly made by like kids doing like a senior high school project. Yeah.

And it's just super cool. It was hugely influential on like. like everyone in the Condama game. And then now it's just super funny and interesting to see like these new kids get into it. We've been playing for two or three years and are just incredibly talented. And then he'll be like, hey, you've seen where we are? And they're like, what's that? Yeah.

You're like, how do you not like, that was everything for me. How do you not know what that is? That's one thing I would encourage with the young kids and shit too, though, is Instagram's amazing. Love Instagram. But don't let Instagram stop you from working on bigger video projects and shit. because even if it's just like you and your five friends are like all pretty good at condama and you want to make like a like dope 10 minute video or whatever I mean a lot of those like your condama clips from four years ago no one's going to scroll through your page to go find a trick from three years ago that's just not going to happen but

people will definitely look up and edit from five years ago easily yeah I mean that's that's like a big part that's what's going to live on that's what I want to really do like this year in particular like we started to get going a little bit this year but like the COVID thing really kind of slowed us up but we just want to make like really dope video content to like you know potentially help show more people like how cool kandama is you know because i think a lot of the youtube stuff like if you can make like a really dope like skate style edit or whatever or skate style full-length video like if there's a version of like the baker videos but for kandama i mean that shit is going to be going down in history like kindama kids are not going to forget that that's going to really help like stamp a whole generation yeah 100 we need that

Totally. Okay, so one, oh yeah, another question I wanted to ask you, because I have seen you getting a little loose at contest. Like, you know, definitely I saw you like running around with a bunch of girls in bikinis at the last contest that I went to. And that was like a kind of moment where I was like, bond, like, condominate is kind of weird because it's like, it is so many little ass kids who are into it. And then there's also like grown ass men who are into it.

Like, does that kind of ever, like, do you think that that's even worth considering? It can be kind of weird because you do have like really young kids in Condamo who maybe are like like they're they're going to be offended by like stuff that seems pretty minimal to us as grown adults who go out and drink and smoke and whatever. How do you feel about that sort of nexus within Condama where there's like so many small ass kids as well as adults? Yeah, I mean there's definitely always going to be two sides to the coin. But at the end of the day, I just kind of see it as I kind of look at it similar to like skating or BMX like. or like an X-Games types event like yeah we all all there's gonna be a bunch of kids going there to watch it but at the end of the day like are the kids gonna be partying with the pro pro skaters like no right yeah definitely that's why we got like a bar that the adults can go to

afterwards or whatever yeah I guess I used to get so much shit for that at BMX because it's like we would just have people smoking weed in the videos and stuff and people would be like oh my god like you know BMX like you know there's 13 year old kids watching this and shit And it's kind of like, yeah, I guess. But like, we're all in our 20s. And like, this is not a big deal to us. Like, are we going to just fucking sugarcoat everything that we're going to do for our entire lives just to, I don't know. And I realized that we've been a part of this too because I remember somebody telling me that there was a clip of a certain condama pro hitting a condomal blunt.

And that that was a big thing in the condomal world. Like, we didn't realize it. But to the condomal world, that was definitely a thing where it's like, oh, like, this is like, like, I guess like Condama kids might not have all known that their favorite top pros smoked weed. Not all of them, but you know, some percentage of them smoked weed. And that was like kind of, I was like, oh, so we were a part of like a sort of milestone there and we didn't even know it. Yeah, super interesting. I mean, I feel like early Dama days was very, Kandama was very marketed, especially to children.

And with a lot of the bigger brands that were bigger in the beginning, like that was definitely their business model. like we're selling to children, let's keep this super PG. And then I feel like when I kind of started, I kind of wanted to push Condama away from that. And because, you know, that's not how I see Condama. That's not what I think is fun about Condama. For me, playing Condama with my homies and like fucking around and just having a good time.

Like that's what it's all about for me. And I wanted to push that side of it more. So I've kind of, I mean, sometimes I definitely feel myself sugar-coding a little bit for the kids. but at the end of the day, I want to be a little bit more edgy because it is dope to do all these things and do it with our friends. And like, I'm not going to not do those things. Yeah. And I mean, at the end of the day, it's like you're a grown-ass man and you're spending your whole fucking life doing this one thing.

It's like the documentation or the videos surrounding and stuff, it's like, you know, you don't want to like completely sugarcoat this shit when it means so much to you. It's your whole life playing Kandama. and like the idea that you would sort of like completely like marketed some fucking Disneyland shit is just kind of unrealistic I think at a certain point. Absolutely. Definitely. So, okay, what do you got planned for the next year? Where do you have plan for Kandamah in general? What do you want to see changed in this world?

Next year is going to be a big year. I'm actually going to be starting a studio of my own. I'm going to be starting a bunch of Kandama for Chrome actually. so I'm super, super excited about that. Thank you, Chrome. You guys are the best sponsor ever. I love you. But yeah, they're hooking me up,

giving me a budget to do a super awesome studio, so I'm going to be filming just crazy amounts of content this year, and that's my goal is to just get a bunch of content out there, make a bunch of tutorials so people can learn, get into it, have a base to start, and kind of a path to follow as far as progressing goes. But yeah, I just want to see Condama continue to blow up and get great exposure. and see the right people get into it

for the right reasons. The studio sounds like a great idea, especially because it gets pretty fucking cold out there, right? Yeah, it gets chilly, but I mean, we have... By L.A. standards, it gets fucking cold. Yeah, you guys are weird out here. But from your perspective, though, like, what goes into a perfect Kandama studio?

Like, the lighting, you know, that's a big deal. The lighting's got to be on point. 100%. Lighting is everything. Rubber floor? Yeah, definitely. I really enjoy playing on a squishy. floor with like a little bit of give

makes it feels really good to me when I'm playing doesn't wear your legs out as much maybe maybe but it doesn't damage the condo when you drop it either way it doesn't damage the doma when you drop it you can kind of play off the floor balance it's a whole new style of condama you can work with there which is super fun lighting though there's like

because I've seen you absolutely shredding the fuck out of tricks in like dimly lit rooms and dark ass nightclubs and shit and you weren't having any problems which to me was kind of shocking because I noticed a huge I can't do shit when it's dark. And like some of the best condemnations of my entire life have been like on the beach where it's incredibly bright.

And I realize like, holy shit, the light is everything. Yeah. I mean, for top tier play, like if I'm trying to go do my best trick, I need it to be premier lighting. Like, everything's got to be perfect. Right. But I've just gotten like the showmanship type tricks. I've just got them so muscle memory dialed in that it can happen anywhere.

It doesn't matter at this point. I remember me and you were in the club in Chicago. For the lyrical lemonade fest, right? Yeah. And you were just whaling out playing condama in the club. How would you describe that? Is that you sort of feeling like awkward as a person who's in a nightclub? So you're like, fuck it, I'm just going to play condama?

Or is that you like, I'm going to spread this fucking condomata people by all means, even if they're in the nightclub and they think they're just out here getting drunk? I mean, for me, it's just like, I just feel the music and I feel the vibe. I just like start wanting to sesh. like music is a huge thing with Kandama for me like if the right song comes on or the right like beat like it's all like very playing Kandama can be very rhythmic you can do it to the beat and I feel like that's a huge part for me like getting in the zone is like playing to music and to a beat is really really fun I respect that I've played Kandama a lot of times while I'm

listening to podcasts and then the one weird unfortunate thing that happens is that my brain while like if I start to like almost pull a trick my brain starts thinking okay if you pull this one the background of the clip is going to have this guy talking about this and like if it's weird like you know and my brain starts thinking like oh my god

like if you pull this right now and you've got Joe Rogan talking about drinking you know elk blood or whatever the fuck he's talking about that's going to be kind of interesting I don't know it's always like my brain over processes that I think music is good well probably my brain would be thinking

about what the music was saying about the connemouth trick as well. Yeah, I mean, I don't think twice about it. If I like the song or whatever it be, I'm going to just keep it in the background. I don't really care what other people think, you know, if you're going to let it ruin your day that someone likes a certain song, like, that's on you. Yeah, no, definitely.

Yeah, yeah. I don't like, obviously, I'm not worried about, like, it being offensive or anything. It's more like just, you know, whatever the podcast is talking about. Or, like, you know, I have a weird ones too, where I was like, I pull a trick. and in the background I got like I'm listening to a podcast and they just start talking about like you know Nazis or something shit and I'm thinking in my head like I really hope that if people are watching this podcast that they don't think that I'm listening to like a podcast that's like pro Nazi or something just because they were talking about it during that part or whatever but you know that's that's just me overthinking everything yeah I feel like you got to overthink things when you're at your level and you have as many eyes on you as you do you know yeah there might be some truth to that fuck them though um so uh Okay, everything's going good.

Oh, yeah, and we do have the Bonds. No Jumbric and Domain Collap is in store. Ooh, here's mine too. I was playing with this one earlier, but we definitely have these out there. And we will have a link in the description to the video that we did where we went to Big Bear

and I chased Bonds around in the woods with a gun. If that sounds crazy to you, that's because it is, and you should have to go watch it. It was hell of sketch. It was very sketch. I shot at him. Real sketch. No cap.

Anybody want to thank? want to say in particular? I guess just, you know, thank you to the sponsors. Chrome Kandama, you guys are the best. I love you for everything you've done. Go check them out. They're the best. Kandama's in the game.

Is it acceptable to say Krom or Chrome? I say both, Krom or Chrome. I'm not particular, you know. It is Chrome technically, but I'm not a stickler. Definitely. I feel it. Shout out to Bonds. Shout out to the whole Kandama community,

best community in the world. Yeah, best community in the world. From my perspective. about as positive as a community could get, about as welcoming as it gets. If you think that there's anything wrong with Kandama or that it's not a welcoming community, I encourage you to get out there a little bit and see how shitty and toxic. A lot of people are in other parts of the world, other communities. Condama is just about as good as it gets if yes, me.

Yeah, absolutely. If you guys have never played Kandama, and you're thinking about getting into it, like get in, grab a Kandama, buy one, get into it, hit us up. online we're always down spread the condom of love get in here we want to see your tricks we want to see your tricks we want to see your tricks do a lighthouse for us appreciate it no jumper bonds coolest podcast on the world check us out on YouTube sound cloud iTunes like comment and subscribe boom whirlwind on the way out no jumper.com if you want to support or pick up one of these shout out to

crom shout out bonds the sponsors RIP juice world appreciate y'all