No Jumper - The Consequence Interview: Coming Up with Kanye, Joe Budden & Mal Beef, Tribe & More!

Episode Date: April 7, 2022

Consequence goes in depth about artist growth, working with Kanye, Tribe Called Quest, fatherhood, his come up, behind the scenes of the industry, ghostwriting, label deals, his health and much more! https://www.instagram.com/constv/ ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper. Coolest podcast in the world. I've been waiting for this to happen for a long time. Very, very excited about it. Consequence is in the building. Yeah, yeah. What's good. What's good. What's good.

How you doing, man? I'm good, man. Thanks for having me, man. Very honored that you're tapping in with us today. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we've been building for a minute off the line or whatever, you know what I mean. So I'm excited to be here. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you've done a lot of interviews over the years,

but they've always been kind of like current events oriented a lot of times, dealing with what's going on right in the moment. I think it would be dope to do an interview where we kind of dig into the reality of your whole story, the whole way up. 100%. Yeah. Okay. So let me know where you want to start at. No, you know what I was thinking the other day?

I'm like, when you do an interview, you want to do it for the person's kids. And not when they're kids, but when they're like 30. So when they look back at it. So they could really like, like, I think that's the best thing you could ask for from a podcast is like a document of who you were as a man for the future. Right. I like that I like that's, I like that's, like you said, if they were to look at it. And a lot of things that I've done, it's ironic that you said that,

because a lot of things that I've done, especially visually oriented, to say to speak, like say an interview will say being on TV, I've always tried to keep my son in mind, like, what is he going to be looking back at? You know what I mean? So I definitely like that approach. So, I mean, for me, you know, I started out as an emcee, very young. I was 16 when I did my first anything, which was working with a trial court quest on the B side of the award tour single from Midnight Muradus. Okay, so can we talk about how you met Tribe and how that even became a thing?

Because like, like, even from my perspective, back in like 2008 or whenever I first, heard you. Yeah. One of the things I heard you say was, oh, she said, I heard you in an old Buster-Rimes video the other night. And even right then, that, like,

immediately just clicked in my brain. I go home right after that. I'm on Wikipedia, trying to piece the whole story together because I didn't necessarily know. And that just, like, even from then, I was like, oh, fuck.

So this has been a long road that led him here. And here we are, like, you know, 15 years later. So the unique, yeah, that's the unique thing about hip hop is that, um,

how it works. is it works for you when you engage. So with, for instance, with that reference, that's from the spaceship verse, right? So you tapped in to when I was coming up with yay and we were breaking through with calm and good, which eventually became good music. Right.

Now I mean, but that wasn't the start of my career. That was the resurgence of, or resurfacing of consequence. Right. So. And I used to listen to Tribe as a kid, too, but I just hadn't put the pieces together. Right, right, right. So, like I was saying, my first official, like, this is consequence, was on the B side of the award tour single, which was the Chase Part 2. So for the Tribe fans that may be tuned here, tuned in here, there's two Chase Part 2.

There's no Chase Part 1 and the Chase Part 3 or 2.2. The consequence is Chase Part 2 and Tribe Chase Part 2 which is on Midnight Marauders. I had a choice of being on that one of the album version

or the B-side of the single now because the the original plan between Q-tip and myself was that I was going to get signed as consequence

so for me the B-side made more sense because it was going to help individualized me and not so like per se make me a group member at the time right if you go back tribe was originally four members and by the second and third LP was three members right Gerobi had taken another route um so fourth album well i'm sorry third album there is the trio and Q-Tip is basically looking to help me get signed. You know, we are family because, you know what I mean?

Right. So we're both from Linda Boulevard, and, you know, I was like the next up from my hood. And so you had been knowing about them since you were a little kid? Or when, so they were just kind of like the big dogs in your neighborhood and shit over the years? Yeah, well, well, tip is, what, maybe six years old of them? me okay so my cousin uh duke l deval turner um him and tip were really tight in the street you know my my cousin uh he was in the streets hard like we we all are from one eye two which is

basic is ironic i name my label one on two records um but we're all from one nine two and that's where they shot check the rhyme so if you ever watch check the rhyme and they're on top of that cleaners that's a landmark in my community you know i mean okay so at that time though it was like one on two was like like I'm like a block like you know that that's where it was that that's where you know everybody was trap hustling then it was hustling right you know me so everybody was you know selling you know they're selling crack a hundred miles an hour up there you know what I mean so it was like like like a queen's version of like one two five or like you know

like you know just like any any any any block in in New York that really you know where it was at, where you could, you know, everything was up there. Shit is not really like that anymore. Nah, it's a different. People are in the house too much now. It's almost like a, it's a completely different planet at this point. Right. You know what I'm saying?

But at that time, that's what was going on. So, like I said, I made a name for myself on one on two and on Linda Boulevard rapping, and being outside, you know, one, two, and three. And I actually had battled run from run DMC one night. and did really well. That just randomly happened? It just really randomly happened. He jumped out of 190E.

You know, and he's run. It was myself, another MC named Spangy, who was really nice at the time. Mr. Cheeks from the Lost Boys, who was Coat Cheeks at the time. There's a few people up there, rumble still skinned and Buster Rhymes was up there. So, you know, we all was just,

you know, and, you know, word got back to tip that I did my thing, you know what I mean? And so he began to take more and more interest in what I did as an MC, and then which led to the opportunity of being on a chase part two. And like I said, but that was all in lieu of me trying to get a solo deal. Now, what wound up happening is, you know, I met a gentleman by the name of Dino DeValle, who went on to actually broker the cash money deal at Universal.

So he was my first manager. So he plugged me with a set of producers, worked in a bunch of joints. Tip heard him. Then, you know, Tip took more interest. He began producing a couple of records for me. He played him for Puff.

And Puff was like, yo, I'll sign him. And this was when Puff just had Craig Mack and Biggie at the time. So Puff was like, yo, he's ill. I'll sign him. Let me get him. You know what I mean? So there's a lot of things that simultaneously happening at this time. So at the same time, God bless the dead.

Chris Lyddy is cute to his manager. with violator and rush management, working with Russell Simmons. So he plays, he also plays the records for Chris Lighty. Chris Lighty, in turn, it's like, yo, he's hot. We should do something with him. So they take, so Coup was in the midst of Paul Lane, a production deal. At the time, we were supposed to be with a large professor up at a lecture with Sylvia Rowan.

And so would you have wanted to just formally join Tribe? or was it like not really I'm gonna get to that That was an option I'm gonna get to that But one more question as long as we're doing this is what was your perspective on tribe

Like did you consider yourself that kind of rapper because it's maybe people don't remember as much But at that time They represented something completely different In terms of hip hop

That's a good question Now at the time I was part of a crew called the HG's We was called the Higas It's funny You pulled out the bag of Right

I'm just curious Because they were something so different. I remember it blowing me away as a kid. Yeah, it was but it was still it was still indicative of some of the things that we did in Queens, a lot of it.

You know what I'm saying? Now when they first started, obviously they went through transitions. They went through you know, you wanted to see all of them wearing you know, as when they were part of the Native Tons, the black medallions, the kentee cloth, etc. etc., etc. By album two, they started leaning more towards

what was going on with us. So it wasn't, by the time they got to Midnight Marauders, you know, it was, they moved a little bit away from what the native tongue stigma was and started really moving more in a Queens direction. You know what I mean? It gets Q-Tip and Fife for Queens-Alleys from Brooklyn. Like I said, when it got down to when they really became, when it was the chemistry of Q-Tip and Fife, because initially the group's chemistry was tip as the front man. and they were bandmates. So when you see them nominated into the rock and roll,

nominated this year for the rock and roll whole thing, you see all four. Right. But the apex of the group is Q-tipping and Fife developing that Queens chemistry, in my opinion. That's where you get checked of rhyme.

That's where you get, you know, Steve Biko, Linda Boulevard, represent, represent, a trial court quest, represent, represent, So when it came to, so when they're drawing from that well of inspiration, that's why I begin to fit in. Okay.

So, like I said, once Q-Tip is starting to produce me, there's more of that in his music. He does the Get Down remix. He shouts me out. That's the Craig Mack remix for Get Down, which is kind of the bridge of the whole Puff thing. He's working with Craig Mac because Puff asked him to do the remix. And, you know, simultaneously plays him, this record we had at the time called Living It Up.

And so, like I said, Puff was very interested because he was, you know, he just, Q-Tip was hot at the time. He was on fire. So what wound up happening was Q-Tip actually did circle back with me and was like, yo, look, you know, we in his, we in his beam, W at the time and he's like look so Puff want to sign you. I'm like a word oh that's crazy I'm like yo I finally did it and this is at

the time when Craig Mack is kind of huge and big he's not yet or as biggie already is out. Flavoring your ears is huge okay flavoring your is huge so all everything is on the creep they creeping up though I'm telling you because it's moving it's moving really fast

so this is 94 going going into 95, right? So, so simultaneously Boston Rhymes is breaking away from leaders of the new school. You know what I mean?

So he's around, he's around us a lot as well, you know what I mean? So when Quta comes to me and he explains what Puff wants to do, I'm like, you know, like I said, like, you know, I have been rapping

and mind you, I'm probably about 17 at the time it's like really it's like it went fast for me you were talking about all this grown man shit all these big decisions but then it's like you're not and I'm literally I'm doing all this as a kid and you dropped out of high school already no I ain't dropped out oh long yes I actually graduated early oh yeah yeah yeah that's the reason I've been around for the brain is important but you always meet people who like you realize like oh shit they were grown when they were young like they got a head start on life they were really doing shit when they were 14 and 15 whatever, you know, yeah.

So he comes to me, he tells me like, yo, so Puff want to sign you. But he's like, yo, I really, I want to do something different. What I want to do is I want to make you like, like, you know, like a member of the tribe, like a new member. You know how like the will be having like a new character come out. I want you to come out like that. And then I'll sign you and get you a deal and all that. But I'm like, man, I can't sign the...

Can't do both? He's like, nah, you know, he's trying to get the bag. You know what I mean? So I was pissed to me. Always was that I was going to be a member of tribe. Right. You know what I'm saying? Now, obviously we discovered later,

be it a beach rounds of life documentary, that there was discrepancies in the group, which I didn't even know about. You know what I'm saying? I had no idea. You know, I'm still kind of from the outside looking in because I'm in the street. They're on tour.

You know, they're platinum twice, you know. So the, the perception is that their, everything is, everything is gravy. You know what I'm saying? Like, why would anything be wrong? But they were having a lot of internal turmoil at the time, too. So I think another thing that became a thing was that just me and Tip was, like, really vibing really hard. You know, we've been knocking records out.

We were moving around. You know, obviously, you know, if you got somebody that you're working with and one of your colleagues come to you and like stamp it, then it's, it moves you in that direction just naturally. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yo, this might be the way to go now because the sun is high.

You know what I'm saying? And, you know, he had his finger on the pulse of like what was really what was going to work in Queens. Like he had done a good bulk of the work on the Mobb Deep's second album, right? He did one love for Nas. He co-signed Nas with

Lodge and Primo and Pete for the El Manick. So he, he pretty much had the, he had to, he had to touch. I remember being a kid and realizing the Q-Tip worked on a Mobb Deep album and being like, what? Like, how is this possible? Like, there are different types of rappers. They overlap. Right.

more indicative of what I just said, like I said, when he, he was the mastermind. I always give tip to credit. He used the math. He's had the foresight to see the transitions and what was going on at that time. Like, you know, he knew, you know, a lot of people don't even know, like, Houtett Road Groovers in the heart. You know what I'm saying? For delight, you know what I mean? So he knew when it was, he knew when it was the lane and he knew when the transition into the next.

So he saw something in Marb and, you know, he was able to help, you know, obviously nurture them into making a classic album. Like, there's no doubt about it that, you know, the second Survivor Fittus album, you know, the infamous album was Survivor the Fittance and Shook Ones is a classic. What kind of stuff would Q-Tip and all these other guys who were around at the time who are really hyped on you as a rapper? Like, what kind of stuff would they say to you about why they fucked with you so hard? Like, because I could sit here and explain.

like why I think you're such a dope rapper, but I'm wondering like what they saw at that time when you were young. At that time, I think the number one thing with tip was the fact that I have rhymes. I have, now you got to, if we fast forward into the future, right, like I'm a two-time BMI award winner for songwriting. Right. I'm, you know, in all humility, I'm one of the best ghost rights. if not the best ghost writer in definitely the last decade.

Just if you looked at the records, you know, if you look at the, you know, obviously working with Kanye, obviously, you know, have been able to write for my own child, been able to have John Legend rap. Like these are not, it's just a different, it's a different gear. So I think what was very, what was very, What was very, what Drew Q-tip,

what made him really, like, want to give me, his attention was the fact that I just had mad raps. I had a lot of raps. I had bars after, I was not stopping. And I had a lot of things to say, and I had a perspective that was not, that was not trying to just cater to the industry, you know, like,

And it's just a, you know, it's funny, like even when Kanye did drink champs, right, he's like, you know, and Kahn's got this with him, you know what I'm saying? And really, that was the beginning of that, you know, the beginning of him, of that frequency and rhythm started with tribe, you know. So when I was coming around, it was just like, I just had an energy about me. And it wasn't even nothing I wasn't even really trying to do at the time. It was just like, yo, we was, it was just, you know, it was New York. It was, you know, we in a tunnel. We really was outside. When I think about what makes you great as a lyricist, though, it's like, a big part of is that you're able to be, like, conceptual,

storytelling. You can get a point across or, like, paint a picture in a way that, I think, like, very few rappers can. And you do it, you can be fucking hilarious on songs. without being like in your face like punchline type shit. Right, right. You just like you have a way of being like extremely intelligent with your bars without necessarily being, you know, like doing something that's gonna like alienate people

or make them not want to listen to. A lot of rappers are smart on the mic, but then it's not that listenable. Right. And so once again, that's this. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's not just, you know, yeah, I really know how to manipulate words. I've been doing this for a long time. You felt like that since you were really a kid.

Like when you first started rapping, you feel like I'm very talented at this. Um, no, actually I worked very, very hard. You know, I wasn't the, I wasn't out the gate the best at what I did, you know? Um, you know, there was a lot of, there was a lot of rappers in my hood at the time, You know, like, you know, some were signed to, some of my friends, I don't know if you would know him, so I, you know, but some of my friends were signed to Jam Master Jay at one point, signed to Eddie F. So there was a lot of guys in front of me that were nice,

but I was always driven. I always had to drive, I never had quit in me, never, not once. That's why no matter what I've been through in music, There's never been that, you know, that emergency break level to get out, get out. I've never been on that, you know what I mean? It was something that once I took to it, it became a part of my composite. For sure. Okay, so then Q-Tip sort of presents you with these two options.

How do you proceed? So, you know, I mean, ultimately, you know, I trusted him. And, you know, my mom had to speak with him. And, you know, we was already, we were people. So we just had like a family meeting about it. And then it was just, we started moving in that direction. So the direction led us to start working on beach rounds of life. Like I said, you know, you know, as with that off on the tail, you know,

Then it became me coming with them, showing up. We started working on Beach rounds in life. They had went through some label issues where, you know, wound up going to Atlanta with Fife for the summer 95. And, you know, we had really had gotten a chance to, like, connect. And we really didn't prior to that. And so, you know, it was a little turbulence between him and me and him. at first just because of the fact that I didn't know that they had a problem so I

didn't I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to see his outlook on me coming in you know I thought me coming in was part of the conversation me and Tip had which I assumed he had with the rest of the group but that unfortunately wasn't the case because of what they were going through so I don't think you know and in fairness accused if he didn't have bad intent he was trying to do with you know make it make it make sense for him Did they feel like you were being brought in as a replacement? Yeah, I got told that.

I got told that. You could see how that might bruise some egos. Yeah, and I could see how that might, yeah, absolutely. But in fairness to myself, they didn't see the things that me and Q-Tip were one-to-one getting into. You know what I'm saying? You know, I remember me and Q-Tube went record shopping, and we're in Jersey City. And Juju from the B-Nuts and Large Professor had dropped us all. We're supposed to meet us out there, rather.

So we're in Q-Tips brand-new 3-25, and we come out. And, you know, and this time, it's funny because at this time in New Jersey City had the highest rate for stolen cars. And somebody tried to get them. You know what I mean? And they left the joint in four flats, popped the locks. It's crazy, right? come out, we're like, what the fuck?

You know what I mean? And, you know, long story short, like, you know, I guess whoever was responsible for that sent some dudes at us or whatever the case is. And so, so we was like in a situation where we was back to back. It would be just me and him. You know what I'm saying? You know, Judeo and large ain't come back for, I don't know what happened, but, you know, it was just me and tip. And, you know, things like, situations like that were just making me and him become

like cross fingers because he was like yo you know he had gone through being in a situation with having a fight with Rex and Effect where you know you know he didn't you know he wasn't really happy with how that had manifested you know what I'm saying

you end up you know I jammy and you know with the block had to come on the strength of that and some of the Zulu guys or whatever that story is all out there I gotta do my fucking Googles if Rex and Effect was beefing with them I did not know about that Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a serious situation. Like, it was serious.

Okay. So, um, so I think, you know, especially when you're in a leader position, you always want to make sure that you got somebody that's, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, straight up. Like, like, yo, fuck that. This is what it's going to be. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Like, because number one, for me, I looked at it like, man, the man is helping, you know, regardless of whatever, a family, whatever, if we're running together and we, we eating together, man I ain't you know I'm not I'm with you I'm back to back with you you you know what I'm saying that's just that's just what I was taught you know I'm saying I don't know no other way to do it I don't know that yo you get into a problem now that's your situation and not our situation right you know I mean so you know so things like I said things like that were were bonding us and you know and unfortunately for their situation, you know what I'm saying,

the success was taking a toll. I don't know. They have been, you know, Q's and McFight have been best friends. They were like five or six, you know what I'm saying? So I would never say that they weren't, they weren't fucking with each other because that wasn't the case. But, you know, there's grown pains with everything. Especially with a group.

We see it over and over and over. You know what I'm saying? The group shit is one thing, but it's, it's different when, you know, you know, one person gets attention at this time or, you know, and you start getting that competitive, like, you know, you know, pussy is some shit, man. Pussy is some shit, man. I don't watch Pussy do some shit, the motherfuckers, yo. I can see it.

So this whole time that you're running around with Q-Tip, though, are you also kind of thinking, like, holy shit, I could have been with bad boy? Um. Because they start blowing the fuck up pretty soon after, right? Nah, because the thing is, I never, you know, eventually, because I, you know, when that message came, it came as a kite. So I didn't, I didn't meet Puff until a little bit later once I was out. And me and Puff ended up being, you know, we're cool.

Were you looking at Biggie and Mason those fucking shiny suits and just thinking, God damn, I could have had one? No. No, I wasn't on that. I had, because the thing was, I had a hit record. biggie wife you know what I mean stressed out was the was the big single of a beach rounds of life so I kind of got the bad boy um look what and still stay with tribe I have really the bad it wound up materializing as the best of both worlds

anyway for sure so what ends up happening with the trap situation as far as well you're running around with Q-tip like how does this situation oh so like I said so I maybe I I jump with saying was just speaking about trust out so So like I said, we wind up finishing the album. And like I said, it was the process definitely, but we got to the finish line. The first, you know, to set me up, I wound up and busted video for Wuhan.

So that's when they kind of was starting to plant the seeds of me being in the group. Oh, that was the video, okay. Yeah, interesting. You know, so that was a, you know, that was definitely a look, Because back then, that's when videos really held a great significance as far as, like, people on the street, you know. And at that time, visually, Buster was going crazy.

His videos were so wild. I had never seen anything like it. There was nothing like Wuhar. Yeah. There was nothing like Wuha at the time. You thought he was the craziest motherfucker on her. That's why it's kind of weird for me to even imagine him as a regular dude just hanging out outside the store or whatever like that. He never was like, Buster not a regular person, man.

He's not a regular person, yo. He's never like, even in his most low key, he's just not a regular person. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like, you know, he's on a different type of time all the time. Right. You know what I mean? Wow. Okay.

So, yeah, they hook you up with the appearance and that video and stuff. Where does it go from there? So, woo-ha, then we begin to. do shows. So we had done we had done how can I be down we had done the Gavin, we had done like every convention that was moving and we just you know started the TV and radio run and then by

July well they shot the once again video so I was in that that was the first single that had Tammy Lucas on it you know obviously Jay Dilla had was also a part of that time period as far as far as was like joining tribe he was the other edition that was you know that made a significant difference right midnight marauders was to be strong and like I said uh so then you know July 96 uh the album comes out um and um you know number one and it was up from there right can I ask the question at that time did it feel like like obviously in retrospect we can

look at tribe and it just feels like oh my god they're so legendary at that time Did it feel like you were basically a part of one of the biggest groups in the world? Or did it feel like you guys were on the come up? No, no, no. They was already stars. It was huge. Yeah, it was huge. It was huge.

I walked into some shit. Right. That's a fact. I walked into some shit. Like, you know, even if I think about it, like, as my own manager, I probably did one of the best deals of all time. It may not be celebrated, but who the fuck could actually do that? like actually get themselves positioned to join a group that's already

two classics at that time when albums meant something. Right. They were arguably the, I mean, the only reason is the argument is depending on which it tastes is, but at that time, definitely for the most of the backpackers, they were the number one shit. Right. Hands down.

You know what I'm saying? They had survived the, like I said, the native tongue run transition. Tip was in poetic justice with Janet Jackson and Tupac. It was, it was major league ball. For sure. Okay, yeah. I just wanted to make sure because sometimes I feel like there's legendary groups and I

talk to them or legendary rappers and when I talk to them, I realized that they didn't consider themselves as legendary at that time because they were looking at other groups being like, well, we're not as big as them. So, you know, like that perspective. You know, I mean, it definitely was mindful of what was going on. You know what I'm saying? Like you said, like we definitely. that, you know, I mean, put it to you like this, like,

the Fuljys blew up off a tribe beat. Killing me softly is beneath Applebaum. You know, so that's how much was going on at the time. Beneath Apple, killing me softly is the drums are beneath Applebaum. Right. And even guys the thirm-thun-thurn and thurn. That's beneath-apple bomb. God rest his soul, Chris Lighty was like, man, if stressed out would have came out before once again,

then he don't think that killing me softly would have had such quite the impact because everybody wanted some more tribe. Like, tribe was that big at the time. Like, honestly, like, you know, now there's nothing, there's no, you cannot, like, Lauren's performance on killing me softly is lightning in the bottle. Probably won't ever get that again because it's the equivalent of like Mary J. Blas singing over Keyrodden to the top. She's still, to this day, does the love without a limit

and does the dance and everything. It's a vibe. It's a one-time vibe. Right. You know what I'm saying? And Lauren over the Benita joint was a one-time vibe. You know, like, yeah, we definitely, everybody loved the vocab everybody loved

already or not but her singing that Roberta Flack over Benita Aberbaum was indicative of what was what was the ground swelling New York which was the blends. Wait, you think that Killing Me Softly, when you think about it, it's less the song and it's more her performance

like her actual performance of how hard she came delivering it? I think the thing is this the thing that always made Lauren a star was her sloin is obviously there's not she's definitely top to me top three top five yeah they're absolutely top 10 female rappers are all time right um but with Lauren Lauren's Lauren's the money ball from Lauren is singing. Like Lauren singing has has a

that is unparalleled because of the fact that it's so great but yet still so grounded that you feel like you could do it with her. You know what I mean? And so when she did killing me so she read did Roberta Flack, she made it so that everybody could sing Roberta Flack. So her doing that, she tapped in the frequency that nobody had done at that time. But maybe Mary J. Blige, Like I said, because of the blend aspect. But really, that's what, that's why the Fugees are, that's why the Fuljis are the Fuljis. Right. Wow. You got a deep perspective on that.

You're going to have me listening to fucking Lauren Hill on the way home after this just to rehear it from that perspective. Right. For sure. So we're still like kind of early in all this. We're still in like 96. Yeah, we haven't even got to the documentary yet. Okay.

So, okay, yeah. Like, how do, how do things proceed? And are you just like thinking like, okay, my Alist? is going to come out at some point this whole time? Or are you focused on your solo album? So at the time, so stressed out video comes out, stressed out has, gets to the point was, has 12,000 spins a week at radio, which, you know, I guess I don't,

maybe that's the equivalent to what stream-wise, maybe like 20 million streams, that's 40 million streams. It's like extremely successful, right? Right. It's like, literally I turn on the radio every four songs on 197. It was me. I was hearing my own voice. I was like bugging.

Wow. But, you know, I was forward thinking as well. And I knew like it was, you know, I wanted to capitalize on that. And so Tribe, the Fugis and Buster were routed for a tour. So I was supposed to go. I opted to stay for the, I opted to stay for the summer leg of it because I wanted to work on my album. And they, to be honest, they didn't have a check for me. They was going to give me Pidium and give J.Dillah for them.

And both of us looked at each other like, yeah, you might as well just park up, you know what I'm saying? And cook, because I had a budget. So it didn't make sense for me to be on the road for free and I could start busting this money up. You know what I'm saying? So I started busting the money up. So me and Jay Diller stayed at Q-Tip crib, worked on a joint, So I have an album with Jay Diller that never came out. That actually features Coco from SWV and Habick is on that project as well as Buster.

So what wound up happening was I came out on the road. I had the album finished. They were still going through a lot of turmoil. It was getting worse as far as like the group when they were. with them on the road. So because of that, we, you know, it was just, you know, I didn't, just to be honest, the execution of my,

my solo project, it fell flat. It was, it wasn't done right. I was left to kind of do a lot of it on my own, which wasn't really the play I signed up for. Right, you want a Q-tip in your corner. He's supposed to take you to a higher level here, right? Right, right, right, right. Now, he did do, you know, he did do some things, but it was just, you know, I think at the time he, you know, he was 20, I think he was like, you know, 26, which is young now. Then it's kind of like, for somebody who've been who been in the game since like, I think he made Benita Aberbone when he was 16. He'd been in it for a decade. And I just, I don't know, I think it just kind of hit his ceiling.

So with that being said, that project wound up. I had a choice. It kept getting pushed back. We put one white label out. I wasn't satisfied what was going on. And I just, you know, it was like, yo, so we're not going to put this out to next year. I said, you know what?

Just do me solid. Let me go. You know what I'm saying? Because I see what's going on. And I didn't feel like I deserved that. I felt like I was a better rapper than for you can't go from in your own head it's a mind fuck

you can't go from yo I got a record that's doing 12,000 because stressed out with something I came up with you know what I mean um me and excuse up that was our that was the epitome of our

you know like I said the bond we came up with that you know Fife ended up being on the video version but that was more of a label thing there was it was really something me and tip came up with you know what I'm saying it could It should have just been a consequence record. You know what I mean?

But the fact that it worked and had us on, I was on David Letterman. You know, we were on David Letterman. I wasn't by myself, but the group, you know, we performed the record on David Letterman. We performed the record on Rosie O'Donnell at the time. We was on Moesha. We on all that. It did everything you're supposed to do. Like, you know, and that's when I started really not.

It put me in an executive's mindset. by default because I was like because I'm seeing what's wrong and I'm like you're not going to put my project out well all right why like I need to understand I need to understand you got to make me understand how you got to be able to make me understand how being successful somehow is not working but that's interesting that you were thinking like a grown up even when you're young as fuck yeah right and I'm like I've said I'm I'm no when all this is a current is 18 19 20 because most rappers are just like fuck the label Fuck death jam.

They didn't put my album out. Instead of thinking like, all right, well, why? You know? Right. Maybe I can understand. And I'm like, nah, I couldn't have got this far to have to argue. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Like, because me arguing is me taking away from the fact that I know I'm not. Everybody's telling me, yo, I mean everybody in the game at that time. Yo, son is ill. Son is the eldest little young nigga. Boom, boom. So. And even in that setback, I still had the confidence that I knew at some point I was going to propel forward. Now, that's what's, so essentially I asked to be released.

And I, you know, so then the other thing was like, then the next album, the love movement came around. And they wanted me to be a part of it. And I just was like, I couldn't, I couldn't picture that. You know what I mean? like I was offered to rap on it. I ain't do it. I was like, nah. Did it feel fake by that point? Fake as fuck.

Yeah. I mean, how could it not, though? You know what I'm saying? If you're me, how could it not? Now, if you're them, you probably feel like, you know, well, you had the opportunity. So that's why I was never no beef because it never was like, you know, I never ate at that point. I didn't take the position of, I took the position of like I had the opportunity. And I kind of ran with a stereotype. like, man, you, you know, you superseded all odds in the hood, right?

So, you know, so it was a tough pill to swallow, but nonetheless, I was like, yo, you know, at the end of the day, I made money. I was, you know, I had, you know, I had to, I had to, I got, I caught the fame I was looking for. I just, I just ain't know what was next. Damn. Yeah, I remember listening to that love album as a kid and thinking there was a couple of really hard songs on it, but I remember thinking that they just seemed like something was wrong with it.

Right. Like, even as a little kid, I kind of picked up on the vibe. This shit is not quite what the other albums were. Right. You know what I'm saying? And then, you know, after that record, they disbanded. Right. You know what I mean?

So I was privy to the information. So basically, you know, I was just like, let me get out while I still can. You know what I mean? And, you know, it was no offense to anybody, but it's just like, you know, that you can't do that kind of business. And even I knew that at that young age, like that you can't do that kind of business with nobody and expect them to, you know, sit by idly and kind of just and burn out.

I was trying to be a burnout. Never. Definitely. So what do you do at that point? So I went back to the streets. You know what I mean? I went back, you know, just basically psychologically, I'm saying. I went back to being in Queens, you know,

and, you know, that was tough because it was like, oh, what happened, and, you know, you got to explain and, and try to save face. And, you know, so I just got back with what got me there in the first place. And so eventually, I got another situation at relativity. But that, I did it with some guys that I kind of wasn't really comfortable with. So it wasn't longstanding. And, you know, me and QTibat actually reconnected at that time. So I was in the Vibirang Thing video doing a cameo.

So I kind of was like on some hang in there shit for a minute. I did another situation. I had a group, got some paper for Raucas, but then 9-11 happened, and everything got shut down. What was the project with Rockus? It was a group called GILT. It was with me and a friend of mine named Menace from Queens. Wow. So we had got like an EP deal, basically.

And it did come out. It didn't come out. It didn't come out. Because I was thinking, I feel like I listened to everybody who was on Rockus at that time. We was on a lyricist lounge two joint And some of a joint called a cipher. So it's, you know, it's everything I'll say It's a buck.

You know what I mean? It's documented. You know what I mean? So. Damn, 9-11 fucked all that shit. So 9-11, you know, unfortunately that shit went belly. And then the turn of 2002 is when I met Kanye. Okay.

How'd you mean them? So, you know, so by that time, I definitely had gone through, the rigors of like deal no deal deal right so I'm fucked up and is that weighing on you psychologically because absolutely I'm telling you I'm fucked up I'm like I'm fucked up to the point where I'm like bread fucked up had worked a get started working a gig you know what I'm saying and um you know I was real disenchanted with dealing with people you know like but it was little torturous because the rhymes kept coming

to me and I was really trying to honestly get away from it like you know I was trying to get to the point where it was like like you know where I could have a what would you say in regular life you know because it was a little tortuous to be thinking of things that I felt like were really good

and didn't really have an outlet anymore you know like the experiences and the of the business of the business plateaus crumbling put me in a space where you know it's like it's credit it's like record deals are like having credit you know what I'm saying so it's like you can't max out five cards and expect to have a $100,000 credit card limit it's just not going to happen like that your score your credit everything when you punch your name up doesn't look business attract it doesn't it's not attractive business so you're you're thinking that the labels and shit are looking at you like maybe you're the problem absolutely absolutely even though you really

weren't it was just you ended up in a bunch of weird circumstances right right and and i never was the i never was the key person it was always a situation where this person paraded you know but didn't get it to the finish line right you know so so which eventually makes me a better executive in a long run, you know what I'm saying? Which actually worked to my benefit because a lot of these people, for whatever reason or another, they're not even in the game no more. You know what I'm saying? Because everything that was happening to me, I was taking careful note of, though.

You know, like, yo, this is, if this would have went this way, you would have been good. So let's get to that point, right? So that's me thinking on a positive note, but then on a reality note where it's like, we're in the basement apartment, I ain't got a car, I'm on a public transportation. It's just not, it's just like it's handcuffing me. I don't, you know, I'm in relationship, may have a girl, may not got a girl, or just partying and, you know, a little bunch of side, side joints, you know what I mean? But nothing serious.

I ain't, you know, like I'm starting to get older now. I'm like, man, I don't even, am I going to have. ever have a shorty, you know what I'm saying? Because the game is taking so much, taking so much from me, you know, from my energy standpoint, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can't take these kind of hits and go through these emotional highs and lows and lows where it's like, like I said, you know, essentially start out, it's this, and then you see things dwindle to this and then you kind of get back to this, you know,

it's almost like an erratic heart chart. And getting on the mind. mic as a rapper is all about coming in confident. Absolutely. And if you're kind of like constantly having the rug pulled out from under you, it's like, how are you really going to get on the mic and do it as if you're a fucking kid doing this for the first time? You know, you kind of might lose that spark with the industry fucking with you.

Right. It's wearing tear, you know. Like, it's funny, like you said that because it put me exactly when I did the shades of hip hop, I did the shades of hip hop, uh, cipher would, with 50 cent for the first time anybody seen them it was me 50 cent norie punchline uh kipri and the trackmasters um legendary you can go on line and see it i got to see that and i remember you know like it's like you even when i when i look at myself was like i had a polo joint on that nobody had but then i had a shake like i wasn't in full full go mode you know what

I'm saying. And to your point, it's just because, you know, as an artist, you got to be able to release. You know what I'm saying? It's really important to release. You have to be, if you're kind of like, kind of has a little bit of apprehend, people can hear apprehension. You know what I'm saying? Even I'm showing what you do versus any other part, like, when you have, when you're not in that seat to where it's like, you know this is working, you know, sometimes that could help you, but over time, it's like the same thing as like a, it's like a pet bull. Like a pet bull has to know that it's not all bark. Right.

Or eventually it becomes a mutt. You got to take, you got to get that, you got to get that off. You got to get that, you got a lock, you know what I'm saying? Right. To keep going, to keep building on that, you know what I'm saying? So it was hard. It was tough. It was tough.

Definitely. Okay. So, yeah, you're, you're, you're, you meet Kanye and what, what are the circumstances? So once again, like I said, we at the turn of, and it's ironic that the documentary came out because this was exactly 20 years ago. So 2002, I get a call from 88 keys. 88 keys as someone I had met during the tribe, my tribe tenure, you know, you know. He actually worked on that record that me and Jay Diller did. He did a, he did, he did the, the, the, the, the beat for the Buster Rhyms feature.

Okay. It was called Amani Frames at the time. So A and I stayed tight through the, through the travels. Because he always, he was a real staunch believer in that project. He, you know, I mean, if you ask him to the day, he's like, yo, you know, what should take on hospital takeover? It would be like, yo, that shit should have came out. That shit, yo, he got jerked. And in a weird way, does that feel like there's just a chapter of your life

that was supposed to be this really important thing that just the world didn't get to consume it? And it just feels like wrong to you? Absolutely. Like these albums are chapters in your life. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a missing component that I had to always play catch up with with the world.

You know? And I do think it made me a, it's like a, it's like, it's like, it's like a kid. It's like that child, um, you know, I don't want to, it's music, so I don't want to equate it to the death of a child because that's a little OD. But that child just never, it's like that child never got to do the things that a child in that position would have done. People always say a rapper's first album, in some ways is like the easy one because it's all of your stories for your whole life leading up to that they never really talk about the possibility of that just not coming out for various reasons and what that might feel like

and then and then understanding like also like my situation is very unique too because arguably you could say beach rounds of life is my first child too because of the fact that like I contribute I'm on eight joints that like there's it's so crazy but because if you really thought about it, you know, now I understand from a person's perspective who didn't know who consequence was, how it could rub somebody the wrong way because if you were so, if you got lyrics to go and then it was, and you loved that,

then you would just want to more that, just naturally as a consumer. Like, Nas made a lot of good music after Elmatic, but imagine what it would feel like if people never got to feel that first, blueprint of who he was as a person. Right, right, right. And even if the album had come out and say the label

doesn't really get behind it and it doesn't really perform that well, at least you could still point to people and say, look at this amazing album I made back in the day that didn't really perform like it was supposed to or whatever. That would still be something. But you would have still been able to see the progression. You know what I'm saying? And so you know, there's that

unapologetic gap that will always linger. You know what I'm saying? It will always linger no matter. And it will always, and with it lingering, always will affect people's outlook, no matter the, listen, that same guy, that same guy is one of the only guys

who actually has records with Jay-Z and Biggie's Wives. Wow. Stressed out and party. That's crazy. And they both were number one at radio. And my name is no cap cons. Go ahead and check. Go ahead and do whatever search bubble you got to do for him.

Google it. Right. Wow. And so, yeah, I mean, like throughout all that time, I'm sure that at least it entered your head, like maybe I'm done before you meet Kanye. Like, are you thinking? Like, are you kind of starting to count yourself out?

Well, yeah. Well, look, the phone rang, right? So, but even when the phone rang, I was just like, yo I was like to the point where it's like yo please just leave me alone man I don't want to I don't want to do this again like you know what I'm saying but you know one one thing I it was 88's character that that was that 88's character was not the character of other people that I dealt with and it was a key he was a key vestib like con do it in me and Kanye's relationship because of the fact that you

know if it was somebody else that would have called me about yay i'd have been like yo son i'm straight i'm good bro but eight i knew he didn't he's a good person and he didn't mean i know he didn't mean me no harm right you know what i'm saying so i was willing to go on that i told him i'm like yo i need this because i ain't really had no bread at all like at all flat broke you know what i mean i'm like yo i could get out there i need to get i need you get me back woo uh-a-a-a-a right he was like all right now it's cool is everything everything cool just come through quince and was he intended to put you together as an artist or you as a writer? No, so the thing was, so, so Kanye. And this is also like five years before Kanye even gets noticed, basically, that in 2002,

you said? It's 2002, so it's a little here. Oh, no, no, it was pretty soon after that. Watch, watch, watch. Okay. So here's the thing, so Kanye had just done the blueprint. 9-11, the blueprint came out, right? Okay, you're right, yeah. So this is our fate has, you know, this is God's plan. Right. My world crashes, right? He's on an uprise, right? Wow. But he's on a rise as a producer, and his ambition is to rap. Right.

Right. So he's been rapping, but when I say that, I'm saying from notoriety standpoint, from recognition, he's recognized as a producer. We saw it in the documentary. He was very acknowledged as a producer, yeah, for a long time before the rapper. So even when you look at the documentary, you know, people ask me, what's my take, and I said the the story, the unto story. in the documentary, which you kind of get it, but you don't get it.

Like the first time you see me in a documentary, I'm sitting there, right? Right. He's doing all falls down. This is the third time I'm at, I've been around him. I never knew none of them people prior to that. Okay. You know what I mean? So I come out for the 88 key session.

So 88 was getting a good amount of work at that time, too. You know what I'm saying? So him and Ye was vibing on the producer Bob. You know what I mean? And so, I mean, ADA had did a beat for Kanye. Yeah, he had laid a verse, and they was thinking about who should be featured on it. So, 88 was like, yo, you know who was saying hell on this? My man, consequence.

And Kanye was like, yo, you know, consequence? Because he, from his perspective, only thing he knew was that I was on beach around the life. It's just the same thing as me joining tribe. Right. I don't know that there's a this or that going on. I just know I heard, you know, I've been watching what everybody else is watching. And, yo, y'all popping. So for, for, yeah, it was like, yo, that's dude from stressed out.

Yo, what's up with him? He doesn't put together like, there's this, this album didn't come out, this thing. He doesn't know all that. He's just geeked. He just geeked. He's a fan. Yeah, I just heard. He heard beats around the life.

Yo, I fuck with consequence. Right. Right. So, yeah. Because Kanye is 100% that guy that love. the dude on the album that didn't get the shine that he deserved that saw the potential. Right, right, right. So, exactly. So we meet, we do the joint. So he offers me a feature fee right after I do it. I knocked the joint right out, you know what I'm saying? Because I was like,

yo, I ain't coming back out here and, you know, I need some money. Right. I mean? So, so then we have a conversation. I skip something. So prior to, doing the feature and everything, I actually arrive at his place. He's staying in Newark. He had like a pinout suite, but there's always the funny story. He had a penthouse suite, but it was over a rehab center for Crackhead in Newark. Right? So he's like, he's like, he's like hoodballing right now, right?

So like he's bawling, but it's fiends on the other side of the building, right? Wow. You know what I mean? Walking around looking for, you know, looking for a hit or whatever. You know what I mean? So, and it's like maybe like a five minute walk from Penn Station in Newark. So, you know, he balling in some dangerous shit. Yeah.

Right. So like I said, I get there and I ring the bell, you know, you know, go to front desk. You know, you call him up, buzz me up. Get the door. Like, what's going on? How are you? Yeah, ain't nothing. You know, I'm calling.

He's like, yeah, good to meet you. I'm yay. Like, yo, I just want to tell you before you walk in my house, man. I'm the next Michael Jackson. Right, right. I was like, oh, word, okay, so how you figure you're going to do that? You know what I'm saying? And I think he, you know, I think he said it obviously to see where I was at.

And then my question to him was like, how are you going to do that? Because if you end up being Michael Jackson, I need a bag. So we began to chop it up. Like I said, we did a feature. And then he offered me a fee. But then with a contingency, he was like, so how much you charge? I'm like, you know, he said, what's your rate? Like three?

I'm like, yeah, yeah, that'd work. You know what I'm saying? 3,000? Yeah, I'm like, yeah, that would work. Probably sound real good. Yeah, I mean, yeah, at the time, like, yeah, that'll work. He's like, yo, but, you know, I could pay you, but then the thing is like, so what, what are you trying to do? I'm not trying to do nothing.

You know what I mean? That was just my honest answer. I was like, I'm not trying to do anything. I'm chilling. I'm not really, I'm not, I told him. I'm like, you know, I have been working on some joints in my spare time, but I didn't trust producers anymore. You know, like I didn't, I didn't, I had done with, you know, had engaged with a few different producers, and it really didn't lead to anywhere. And, you know, and obviously with the tribe situation, because he asked me, he's like, yo, you kind of just disappeared after the tribe.

She's like, yo, what happened? I'm like, yo, look, man, you know, I'm not trying to throw no dirt on nobody's name. this shit just ain't work out. You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, it's all good. I'm living. You know what I mean? So he was like, yo, look, you know, like,

I'm trying to put my album out. That's my goal, you know, like, but, you know, at the same time, my day job was kind of like producing for Rockefeller, but that's not what I want to do in the long term. You know what I mean? So he was like, yo, basically, yo, you know, because I scorched the joint that we did.

So he was like, yo, what if we did like what if we what if you like came through because I don't really know nobody out here like what if you just started coming through we just worked together and eventually like I will you know because I really would like to

do an album for you like I think you should I don't I don't want to get into that shit but I think you should you should have been came out so I was like you know let me think about it you know at this point you're not contractually obligated to anybody you can sign

and you can push it? A contract, man. I'm about to get evicted. Oh, yeah, right. That's the only contract. I'm about to break the lease. I ain't worried. Like, that shit is gone.

But you're kind of trying to put it on like you're not fucked up to Kanye just because you don't want to tell people. I can't hide it. Okay. You know what I mean? My parents, I'm not like, I ain't come over there like fake hooping. I ain't come over there fake kicking. I'm like, yo, you know, my, my, my value was in me rapping.

You know what I'm saying? like my A-Rex was old and dirty. Right. It shit just was what it was. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't, at that time, that's what it was. I've never pulled punches about it. So everything that I, you know, even when I eventually got to my solo album,

that's why I named it, Don't Quit Your Day Job, because it was never, I never was going to be the guy who, oh, you know, all of a sudden I turned it to, you know, young Billy overnight. It wasn't like, man, I worked at every dollar I ever got, my life, bro. Right. You know what I'm saying? So at that time,

I was hit. I was fucked up. You know what I'm saying? Basically, that's why even when you see in a documentary, like when, in that first scene at the apartment, like, I try to slide past,

you ain't, bro, I ain't even redress for no shit like that I even got no cut of nothing. You know what I'm saying? I came through on the agreement that we have eventually made about like doing the records. You know,

so for me and Kanye was always, it was always business you know what I'm saying we grew into a friendship and a brotherhood but it was always contingent on that situation I didn't even take the money that's me not taking the me not taking the 3k fed me for the rest of my life mm bars right there so then okay you just go you start hanging out you kind of enter this like kanya universe and you got to start just posting the studio as much as possible so we saw emerging universes you know what I'm saying so to Because he doesn't have a solidified universe yet.

He's like a new dude in town. Especially not in New York. Yeah. You know, remember, remember, he's in Newark, you know what I'm saying? So, so we begin to inadvertently compliment each other slowly. You know what I'm saying? You know, remember, he's still ahead of me in paper. Right.

You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, you know, it's like, yo, you know, he's treating me to fool when I come over and boom, boom, boom. But then, you know. And let's not forget that he might be on. unhappy with his position as a producer for Rockefeller. But for anyone else in the rap game, this is like an incredible situation to be in. He says in the documentary, I went from getting such-and-such-such, I'm getting 40-50 a track, right? It's $40,000. It's like moving cocaine. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? He's like literally with stomach breaks. And he's so good at it. He can pump tracks out all fucking day.

Literally like, and mind you, he was doing it by itself. So when I started come around with ideas, and everything got cranked. You know what I'm saying? Because at the end of the day, now I was like, yo, all I needed was a bowl of dog food. Right. That I could trust if it was going to be there.

You know what I'm saying? Dead ass. You know what I'm saying? So like, then it starts becoming, you know, a situation where it's not just a beats. Now he's putting, yo, you should rap on that.

Or he's throwing on beats and because I'm a little comfortable, like you said. Once you get into a zone, then it's like, oh, I ain't really worried about food like that and somebody jerking me around.

Now I start gunning. Now I get the pet bull back. You know what I'm saying? I always give you credit as my brother dad. He got me to unleash the beast. You know what I'm saying? Because at the end of the day, he put me in a comfortable situation

enough where I could fucking dog shit. You know what I'm saying? So, and it was a growing process because it's like, you know, you know, when someone, somebody's in your pocket and I was in his pocket you know what I'm saying like I was like I said I'm coming around like boom boom but but then I start coming up with million dollar ideas you know what I'm saying and and he was in a position to flip and he was in a position to flip first

and that's kind of what you that's kind of the history right I mean not kind of that is the history right right so what kind of ideas are we talking though and like like like I mean like for instance right Like the first freestyle that he ever got placed on an album was on DJNV album. And he redid a million at my, from, from my, you know, basically it was my idea for him to do that. I said, what you should do is reflipp a million. Let's rewrite the shit, boom, boom, boom. So we did that shit. It was on my mixtape.

That's why I was on my mixtape because I, you know, I cut it up with him. You know what I'm saying? And Envy heard it. Envy was like, yo, I'm put this shit on my shit. That was the first time he got really taken serious as an MC and not just as an MC, but even outside of the backpack realm because, you know, the initial circle of rappers in New York was the one, was Kwali and most because he was giving them beats on a cut.

Right. You know, he's giving them, he's showing a love. And it's a barter. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So the NB's situation was more like, oh, you're hot. Oh, I ain't know you, you know what I mean? And we began to build from there.

And then it's just... Yeah, I mean, it's hard for people probably to understand these days, and I only understand as a fan, but to be producer for Rockefeller and to be in the studio with Beanie Siegel and Memphis Bleak and all these dudes, dipset, et cetera, and then also be an artist who's rapping with most deaf of Tiliqqqa. I mean, those are like the two polar opposite sides of the rap.

world at that moment right I said this on and I'll say it again you know going up to going up to when we're going up to the Rockefeller office in the Dev Jam building and that shit was like going to parole off that was like going to parole building right it was like 20 30 30 filly niggins driving up coming to get their money look at you know I mean obviously it's a hundred Harlem niggies because they all from uptown that shit up the block they come into the office you know what I mean uh I you know, Brooklyn two times deep because it's actually your Brooklyn nigga shit.

Right. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, and, you know, like I'm saying, like, he definitely at that time, you know, some of the Chicago guys started flying in slowly, and a lot of it was me and him, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, if he asked me to, you know,

make sure we were straight, I made sure we were straight. Always, I mean, I did, and I ended up, you know, man, in and out for, like, 20 years. It was never, you know, we always, we always was, we always got in, got out. Was, uh, was it, was he always open to the idea of people writing for him? Is that something he never really shied away from? And did that strike you as odd? Um, to be honest, I mean, you know, you know, that's a, this is a tricky question to answer on camera. Right, because there is a code.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's my man and I'm, you know, it's, but I, I, you know, I, But I'm gonna just say this. Like at the end of the day, I always took it, as far as me and him was concerned, you know, I took a lot of that as a compliment when it came to me and him, you know, because I would come with shit and he would just be like, yo, that shit,

yo, you know, yo, it's, you know, once I really got in that zone, it was like, yo, you fucking wrap your ass off. You know what I'm saying? And so it really kind of put me back in that pocket when I first was, you know, dealing with the tribe, like I said, where, like, I'm going around L, L, and Tip was like, you know, Raphael, and I'm, duh, yo, the fuck, you know what I'm saying? So it was back to that with the fuck shit.

You know what I'm saying? So, you know, well, yeah, you know, we, we figured it out. You know what I mean? We figured it out. You know, and obviously, you know, he's competitive. And Kanye is really about making the best record possible. So we virtually got to a comfort level where it was just like if it was something I you know if it's something you know he needed me to help with I just we just jumped that off it strikes me when I was watching that documentary that

there was just a level of attention put into each and every bar in a lot of those songs that he was like rapping for people for years before they ever came out right I'm sure that those songs went through like countless revisions and you know just changing bars bit by bit to make them like some of the most iconic songs of all time. And in this day and age, where a lot of songs are people just sort of punching in, saying a bunch of shit that's off the top of their head. Sometimes those songs become classics, of course. But it's just, do you ever feel like something has kind of been lost in a lot of people's recording process where they're just so off the top of their head and that there's just

not this relentless refinement period that you probably experienced a lot more back in the day? To a degree, yes, but I think that is more of a broad scope of the industry at large. I think when it comes to what we've done, we've always maintained that as a root. You feel me? So, yeah, there's some records that you just catch, you know what I'm saying? Like, for instance, I know for a fact, like, he caught the verse from, heard him say off the head. You know what I mean?

I did the Grammy family in 10 minutes. I wrote, wrapped it out in 10 minutes. Really? You know what I mean? Yeah. Some of them, music is an energy, it's a frequency, and it's a vibe, but it's also a construction. You know what I mean? So what you're speaking of is more of the construction.

And we've been in that spot for a while as well, you know, where we've taken, you know, we're literally constructing records into intellectual duplexes. You know what I mean? Like, if you think about hurricane, there's remnants of hurricane on the internet when it was the bare bones of, right? of do do do do and where it got built it got built into a high rise that now resides with weak and a little baby you know what i'm saying yeah when i say that like oh people these days tend to just like blurt out the track i mean Kanye and good music shit is obviously kind of on the other end of the spectrum where when you hear some of these songs on the leaked versions it's like completely different different verses to end up on other songs it's like the craziest

shit you ever heard in terms of like how many revisions they go through whereas a shitload of the rappers i know when they make a son they just go in the booth for 10 minutes and say all the shit off the top of their head and then that's the song and it never there's no editing ever right right 100 so so you know but i i've been in this space now don't get me wrong i've worked with a lot of you know i did you know i i had kendall mar on my mixtape i like one of the first people from the East Coast to work with Kendrick, you know what I mean? Back on Movies on Demand, too. You know, I've worked with a good portion of the game, you know what I mean?

One way to other. So, you know, there's always this way, that way, your way, my way, et cetera. You know, I think ultimately, you know, I've always tried, you know, especially, you know, the good music era of success. moving forward from that just to try to make the best final product it's that's that you know that's the end or be all to to the to the to the accolades right is is is you have to take those extra steps um you know in order to be effective at this point I think did you um did you have you ever gotten used to the idea of punching in or are you

still someone writing in your phone or on a piece of paper before you get in that I don't have a notebook anymore. Really? It's all over the top of your head? The notebook stopped with Kanye. Oh, but you write shit in your phone? I do write. I do take notes.

But I don't, I don't recite rhymes that are written out in a book or even in my notepad. Like, I just literally run it out. You know what I mean? So I do have notes that I, you know, I might get to like bar 10 and be like, Now I want to finish strong, so let me go to my notes and see what may coincide with that or go back to just catching it. You know what I'm saying? But, yeah, by and large, you know, I definitely, I'm never like, unless I'm doing, like,

unless I, unless I'm doing retakes just to, like, polish the record, polish the takes, then I'm never like, yo, eh, uh, uh, eh, nah, I'm like, I'm in the space, you know what I mean? I think that's the evolution I mean that was my evolution definitely as a rapper and just more as a musician evolving into being one with the music

you know what I'm saying Are you rapping in your head like when you're driving around or at the grocery store or whatever are you putting shit together in your head just like because that's kind of how your brain is wired at this point If it was up to me I'd rap every second of the day Really?

I don't I I I I One of my, probably my problems is that I'm disconnected from, like, regular conversation. Wow. You know, like, and it's a little bit, probably a pain to deal with, but I'm just not, I'm just not, I'm just not engaged in the regular shit at this point. It's hard for me. Like, I can't, I can't go from everything that we just talked about, right, and figuring out how to be successful and then somehow spin back to, like, conversation about or having small talk. It just doesn't work for me.

It literally, if I could rent, if my brain was in the space, because it's like, for me, it's a certain space my mind has to be in for it to pour out, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, if I have an argument, right, let's say I have an argument with somebody, that veers me away.

That doesn't help me, right? That veers me away from Like the absolute I remember when I wrote Gone From late registration One of the best songs of all time Thank you. Easily. I was in L.A.

We were out here, we were working with Puff. I think some of that's in the documentary too. So Krak Kanye had made crack music originally for Puff. And he made gone

because he and I were supposed to rhyme on J-Lo's get right and I didn't and they didn't want me on it at the time so he took the rhymes from that

and put it on gone right and so but he's like yo you got I didn't do the J-Lo shit you got to kill this shit right

so I'm out here and I'm like it's not clicking to me and it was just too much shit going on some motherfucking in the studios bro it's ah

oh who right I said yo I'm gonna be honest with you Let me go to New York and just go do this shit. I'm gonna have it for you in 48 hours. I go home, I'm chill. I just lay on the couch. Lay on the couch in Queens at my people's crib.

When I tell you, I dreamt this shit, once my mind cleared up, I just dreamt the whole verse. Wow. I literally was like, yo, hit it like this and this dude, gone shit over, over, boom. So I was like, I was pulling out. I thought about my homie who had died. I was like, I was pointing out

for the fact that my pal's going, trying to help his mama with the fact of the child's going. And since we used to bubble like a tough full of cow gone, guess it's only right that I should help it for now on. But since they got a foul on, what could have gone wrong? Now they asked the call, so how long is this going on? And maybe all this money might have gone to my head because it got me thinking money might have gone to the fed.

So I had gone to the dread, but he had gone up to bed. And when I came the next morning, he was going my bread. And with that being said, I had gone my instincts. Going to the spots where they go to get mixed drinks. But looking back now, I should have gone to the crib and had gone to win because I had gone about 10. But I had gone my friends, and we had gone to the bar. I heard the nigga talking shit,

so I had gone to the car. And now the judge's telling me that I had gone too far And I'll be going for 20 years doing time by I'm boss Since I'm going to herself for some petty crimes I guess I'm going to the well One too many times Here you go, yay It's tight that you like could kind of tell

That I really really wanted to hear the verse At that moment Like I was thinking like fuck We stop this and just play that song real quick But wow yeah that's I mean Yeah I don't know There's something about that song that just fucking went crazy Is it true or was the story that like

He did his verse You and Cam did verses and then he had to come in again into another verse because he saw how hard y'all went. Yeah. Yeah. But then the verse he did after that is insane as well. It is. I was like, dirty, motherfuckers.

Like, you didn't think that song could kind of like reach a higher pitch, but it just fucking keeps... He went on that. You ever get violent? Yeah, they're going. Yeah, that joint's crazy. Insane. That verse is crazy.

Yeah, definitely shout out to Yale on that one. He killed that. God damn. Yeah, so, fuck. Where were we? sequentially. We kind of got deterred there for a second. But yeah, so your album ended up coming out what year?

2007. 2007. And this year was the 15th anniversary. Right. Amazing. And was it kind of like a battle to get that out? Or was that kind of like a smooth process once you, right? I didn't do so much shit, man.

I remember that at the time. With that shit, it was like, so we had, you know, obviously the college job out came out. It was mega successful. We went on tour. How surprised were you when the college driver comes out? That's kind of like the realization of his dreams of like, oh, he's been telling everybody how great he is for all these years. And now all of a sudden you really can't deny it.

And it was just like such a mega blessing. Because, you know, we really, it was a lot of work done to turn every know into a yet. You know, one of the first things, ironically, that's why I was on my album, you know, the Good to Banner Ugly was one of the first records that we got on the radio. DJ, and DJ Enough did not get no, he didn't even get a mention in the documentary, which I thought was criminal. Like, because DJ enough made Kanye a heavy hitter, um, 2003. And, um, you know, at that time, he had a lot, he had, he had, he had, he had, he had, he had, he had, he had, he had, he was like I said, you know, he was, you know, like I said, he had yay, freestowing. And then, um, he, uh, we played him the good to bad and the ugly. He was out one night.

I forgot, what was that? But he was like, you know, he, like, kicked the good to bad and ugly. He asked me to kick it for a, no. I kicked that shit and Enough was like yo this shit is crazy. You know Send me that shit and watch We sent it we got it done you know we we send them a bounce out the 1880 She wasn't even mixed right I mean Yeah the man played that shit for three months straight started the show with that shit Right I'm saying once again that was like another million dollar idea

Essentially because you know Credibility is probably You know what I mean? You know, especially like, especially like in a, it's funny because, like, in a situation for Kanye because he had money. Right. So it wasn't a, get the money thing, it was literally the credibility and the belief. So that record was definitely a record, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

he always understood that, Kanye paid for that video out of his own pocket. You know what I'm saying? Because he knew the importance of what it meant to the cornerstone of his career and, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, he, he, he, he knew, he knew, he knew, he knew. good music. Right. I mean? So, you know, but yeah,

so it was that. Now, obviously, you know, another thing was the mix tapes. You know, we did the mix tapes. Once again, with that,

like having that a million joint, you know, we knew, we were having a conversation and we knew, I definitely knew. I was like, there's no way I'm getting signed

without putting out a mixtape because, you know, at that time, G-Uing it was tearing it up. That was like the way to get on. That was the way to get on. right you know you you had to you had to you had to put the grease the elbow grease in but

you know that was the way so you know we started that obviously he gets into the car accident you know that's a setback but it was like one step over like one step one step one step backwards to propel two steps forward right you know so he healed up we eventually linked back up because he was out here when he smacked when he crashed the joint on wilshire i think yeah yeah so we was out you know I was still in New York. He helped up. We met up in Atlanta for All-Star Week in that year. And then we should start it.

We just, you know, we just started. We really was dedicated to getting this shit together. Let me ask you this. When I was watching the documentary, and this is coming as someone who was a fan pretty much from the beginning of his career, because I remember hearing him first on Blueprint 2 and just being like, what the fuck was that verse?

And just ever since then, been tuned in, watching every step of his career, watching that documentary, it was probably like the most engaged. I've ever felt in a piece of content in my adult life. Like it was so incredible just watching him realize his dreams and watching that look in his eye of just knowing what he was meant to be and just having to convince the world of it.

And just rewatch, like seeing all that footage for the first time and just realizing how right he was about his own talent was just like one of the most incredible experiences as a viewer ever. as someone who's there what did it feel like watching that documentary? It really felt like walking back and walking through a time machine and what's so crazy

is that the significance, you know, like when I hear someone like yourself or, you know, I get a call from someone in the game and they're like, yo, yo, that shit was so crazy, yo. You know, like when it, you know,

obviously, episode one came, you know, phones ringing like, yo. Yeah, week after week. It does more and more memories. I can't believe that was what was going on. It's like, and be honest with you, that's just, that was really just the tip of the iceberg. Because, I mean, even Cudy says, you know, some of the things he, you know, you know,

there's so many things that, you know, some, a lot of, you know, definitely Cuddy and Chiquet, definitely had a lot of footage, obviously. But there's a lot of this, you know, like I said, like the, a lot of the, some of the turning points, because in episode one, it kind of goes from, he's in Chaka Pilgrin's office playing, all falls down, it's, it's basically on deaf ears, right?

And then it kind of like jumps, he goes to Chicago, and then it kind of jumps, kind of jumps to where it's like somehow lit, but it's not, but, but from my eyes, it's like, nah, that wasn't like, in the, in the, in the realm of some, Watson Televen, it looks like maybe that's a week too, I, you know, everybody got their act together. It's a years later. It's not years later, but it's incidents later, occurrences later. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Because like I said, I met him 2002, 2004 college dropout comes out. Right. But that's, eh. It's like literally, it starts. It's like every day we're dealing with some wild shit. This shit is wild. You don't go, you don't go from, we ain't fucking with you to half a million records to first week.

It's wild. Right. You feel me? Yeah. Like, it got dog wild. And so some of those things you may never see, you may only hear through, like, story. like through like literally like folk tale you know what I'm saying because it you know but the great thing about the documentary is the fact that there is there is

those those pieces that you know like you said you can see it's like yo really this shit really manifested into the motherfucker who I damn this is here from every day right you know I mean some way shape form of fashion whether it's clothes music tweets TV whatever you know I'm saying like and even he said like pretty early on he said like this is cootie he did a seven hour documentary in my life so I mean even that right there they probably had to cut out three hours right there right that was a then yeah like the glow on the dark tour isn't even in the documentary they must cut it down so no no he wasn't you know that that's the another thing like

the story is also you know cootie expressing being in the circle being out of the circle right right you know what I'm saying so there's some of the things that he just wasn't he wasn't privy to at a certain point you know what I mean so did you relate to that because you've kind of had your ups and downs over the years um with with with yeah in terms of yeah being cool yeah and not being cool um nah because yay love me right you've been cool with them what like 98% of the time 90% of the time we don't got into but we're brothers right it's different it's different nobody's me in that situation because nobody At the end of day, Cudy has his camera, right?

You know, or love and respect to him and all that, you know what I'm saying? But that's not you telling him. That's you. That's you. He's a subject, right? And that is not the same as me giving my artistry to him and it then in turn becoming worldwide. There's no comparison.

You know, it could be argued that, you know, there's a cloud up off of yay. I didn't cloud up off a yay. How did I cloud up? I was already rapping. Right. I ain't cloud up. You know what I mean? At the end of the day, like I said, we had an agreement.

It was never a cloud up. You know what I mean? Like, we had an agreement. It worked. Right. I deserve everything that come with that. But, I mean, it completely revitalized your career at a point when you had kind of given up. Oh, for sure, yeah.

I deserve it. I'm not saying it because it's me. It's definitely different than being the video guy for sure. Right. I deserve it. Whatever I got, I deserve. Like, if you invest, just, if I had a Bitcoin versus a dollar and a Bitcoin pop, I deserve whatever come with it.

It's true. Right? It just, if, because I ain't, because it wasn't literally U.S. currency, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't deter the value of what has occurred. If it popped, it popped. I mean, when you look back- So if I put in sweat equity versus actual money, the sweat equity has no value because of what?

Nothing. It manifested into a literal dollar. But when you look back at all the decisions that you made throughout your life, believing in Kanye at a time when nobody else did probably feels a lot like you invested in Bitcoin on day one. Right. Like I said, I literally just said, like me not taking the 3K fed me for the rest of my life. You know what I mean? So I could have took the 3,000, I'm like, yo, it's nice to meet you. I could have did that too.

I've always said this. Like, Kanye is a very persuasive person. Like, people don't, people who know him know that. Like, he is extremely persuasive when he wants something. When you didn't take that 3K were you thinking about Memphis Bleak, not taking the 1K from Jay in the car on reasonable doubt? That it didn't even occur. Okay. That's what I keep thinking about. I got to say it. It didn't even occur. It was just like, it didn't occur because it was, it was similar to me.

It was more similar to me not signing a bad boy. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, yeah, yeah, that was right then. Yeah, I'm really doing this for that, right? But me, me trusting the process led to a bigger picture. Right. Definitely. one of the scenes that kind of stood out to me as you know just one of the ones that is so indicative of what happens in this rise to fame is that moment where he calls cootie by the wrong name a bunch of times in a row right and he's drunk as shit it's it would appear right right right right right though at the Grammy joint yeah and it's like you're it's just right there so transparent of like the fact that Kanye was kind of dealing with learned like

Like just developing an ego that he obviously like deserves to have, but it's kind of like gone too far in that moment where it's like, you know. Well, I mean, I think no, there was no, there was no media training that could prepare him for what had eventually transpired. Right. Right. Now, does Jay make mistakes absolutely? Absolutely. Absolutely. When I say that, when I'm saying, like, as far as like with the drunk

and the woo-out-a-woo, with the name and all that, you know, if you cootty, do you take a person? Yeah, you probably take a person because you're like, yo, this was somebody I believed in when nobody believed in him. But he also is the same person who's having to now manage a plethora of personalities.

You know what I'm saying? People coming at him, him manifesting it, him, you know, obviously having a little bit of a chip on the shoulder. You know what I mean? From, you know,

because it's just natural. Nobody's going to, you're not going to go through a bunch of nose. And then when you get yes, be like, you know, whatever, everything is kumbaya.

It's low key up for a couple you motherfuckers. You know what I'm saying? Because I know how you really felt about it. me. I felt the energy. You know what I'm saying? So it's all about a position and

perspective then. It's like now I'm in a position where, you know, I'm drunk and hey, you know, what's your name again, nigga? Well, when you put it like that, I feel you. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's a wild ride. It's a wild ride. It's a wild ride.

You know, like, you know, and like I said, I mean, even in that, like homie still running around I made $30 million off the joint So You got one what's your name, nigga? Is that verified?

I don't know but I know That's amazing It is and I would love for somebody To cut my check for my parents Right Soon Yeah Do you wish you had more screen time in there

You think that your role was I know this I've been on TV so I know that You subjected to the edit Right So you know I have no issue with that I just need my check for the edit, but, you know, we'll get to that.

Right. How's that recording process changed, though, with you just being one of the very few people who's been privy to what it's like making this music for all these years, and it seems like when you're seeing glimpses of what it looks like these days, that it's like, it's crazy just like how

many people are involved, and he's kind of talking to one guy who's making a beat, he's talking to another guy that's writing for it. He's like, it's been crazy, I'm assuming seeing that transformation. Well, it's definitely, a couple different ways to look at it. If you're looking at it as a business being ran,

then that's the natural progression of business. You know, when we started, it was more of a mom and pop. Right. It became more of a structured business, you know. And that's what you essentially want. You know, you don't, you can't, you can't get to certain levels to where you brag and boast

doing the same business. Like, it has to grow. Like, you have to, elevate. That's the, that's the means and the ends of capitalism. Like, you don't, you don't, you know, very rarely will you not get swallowed up without evolution?

You know, so you have to eventually, you know, if you're going to expand, like, you know, you have to, you have to hire employees. You can't, you know, it's like when you, when you get an ad dollars for a podcast, you can't run the same joint

just off your Mac with the flip, Like, you know, eventually you gotta have a person to this person does that. You know, that way you develop some sort of conveyor belt. What's like a day in the life of you when you're in that, when you're like deep in album mode, like going for it, working on music? Like, what's, like, how do you fit into this puzzle? It's kind of shrouded in secrecy, I guess. Well, you know, with respect to the NDA.

For sure, yeah. You know, I'm quince, you know what I mean, in that situation. You got like the most seniority as a lyricist in that realm. And arguably as a thinker. Right. You know, because it's not, it evolved past just writing rhymes, you know, there's been a lot of critical, I mean, look, you know, for instance, I was a champion and campaign for Sayla to be on the on the J.I.K. album, Jesus album.

And my campaign and that led to it being synced in the Fast and Furious movie. You know, and it was a great check for everybody. Like, that's not a rap. That's a thought. Right. So it's those, it's that level of input. and passion that, you know, and critical thinking that affects everybody's economy, you know. So it's, it, you know, I can't ceiling it just to 16 bars or a punchline or metaphor all the time. Like obviously that's, you know, that's the root, but then there's just, there's just a lot more.

Is it, there's been a lot more over the last 20 years? Is it true that, you know, you? in that environment that there'll be like months sometimes of just talking about music or just talking about ideas before the music making unit starts that is true yeah conier definitely likes to that's that's a thing that's a real thing like hanging out talking is kind of like the work for a long time before it's a real thing yeah it's a real thing that's fascinating very interesting um In terms of your own personal musical output or anything like outside of that realm, what's your thought process on that?

Like, do you still have aspirations to put out? Because you said you have this new stuff. You're going to play for us after this. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, that's what I've actually been taking the last few months to do. I took some time just to breathe. I had been going through health issues. for the last two years.

And I finally turned the corner with that. Very strong, very, you know, stabilized from a, you know, I was diagnosed during the pandemic with SLE lupus and diabetes type 1. So, you know, people who may have seen, you know, I dropped down to like 107 pounds. It got really scary for my family. And I was working out a lot of it, too. once I was capable of doing such.

But, you know, and in doing so, you know, not realizing like, you know, I put myself in a lot of situations where I needed a break. It was, you know, you know, we have autoimmune, you know, we have an autoimmune disease of any sort, let alone too. You know, there's lifestyle changes you have to make. Really? Absolutely. Absolutely.

I don't eat bread at all. Like I can't I personally do not eat bread unless it's like Unless my sugar drops did you have a Unhealthy lifestyle in general before this diagnosis? I don't think Would somebody would typically say was unhealthy but looking back at it? Yes, absolutely I mean rap life is not the healthiest life you up very late You know I mean Eating whatever eating whatever that makes you comfortable I was definitely addicted to taste

I still have that issue to a degree, but it's been regulated enormously since my diagnosis. But I've, you know, growing up in the hood, I was addicted to taste. So, you know, I want, you know, I'm with the chicken fried rice with the oxtail gravy. I want the cocoa bread. I want the shit that's seeing your sugar, the $600 on a deli. We're victims of the same struggle on that one because I'm fucking love candy and fucking It's crackers and whatever. Ironically, I don't even eat a lot of candy.

Really? But I did eat a lot of comfort food, you know. So, you know, breakfast is, sauces, egg, and cheese on a bagel with butter. Right. And, you know, the body is, you know, look, we have the point in life where people don't keep a car past 39 months. Or, you know, unless it's an exotic, you know what I mean? something, you know, of a substantial value that makes it worth keeping, right? So most people lease a car 39 months.

And then by the time you have the end of the lease, you're like, yeah, it's kind of time for this to go, right? Right. So imagine your body. Imagine the marriage you put on your body through stress and through snacking and desserts and, you know, and none of those are like acolyne things that are like fuel. Those are all like, you know, just things that were clogged the engine. You know, eventually, like, you know, the cars, it's going to give out unless you make changes. And you, you know, you service the engine.

Were you, like, I don't know. Were you getting fucked up over the years as well? Was that part of it? No, not really. I got fucked up when I was young. I was getting, you know, twisting up and shit. You know what I mean? I never fucking no coke or no wild shit, you know what I mean?

But, you know, drink a drink. smoke smoke you know I mean um you know definitely uh you know with the ladies and all that you know but you know flip too many flip too my motherfuckers upside down that's your way and tear on you you know what I mean so you know you got to just be easy with everything you're doing out here right has it been tough to make the transition into being full-time healthy yeah I mean definitely you know everything everything everything with discipline is initially tough you know It's tough. It's tough not to have, you know, it's tough to be an artist and not, you know, at one point, you know, even with women, like, you know, at one point, you know, especially like when you speak about, and this is another thing that probably, you know, because obviously probably wasn't going to make the documentary, but the amount of female interaction we was having during those runs was like, you know.

historic. I mean, Amber Rose got discovered in them runs. You know what I mean? Like, it was, you know, and that's not always, that much, that much energy isn't typically maybe the healthiest scenario in the scope of your life. Yeah, it's fun as far. Yeah, you know what I mean? We have the house of blues on sunset. It's like a hundred. You know what I mean? Right. You know, ready to go somewhere. But, and that was every city, you know what I mean?

mean. It's tough to keep that going over the years. Well, 100 every city? Well, just fucking every girl you meet or, you know. I mean, yeah, yeah, right, right, right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's just, you know, it's a youth, that's a youth-oriented thing. And I think when you get older, you know, like you really, you know, man, man, you know, the older you get, you know, the more you got to definitely be mindful.

of burning out. Right. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and definitely multiple outlets of giving your energy out and do that quick. Right. Definitely. What, uh, are you ever doing loving hip-hop again? Is there a love of hip-hop? I don't know. I've been seen. She says yes. It is? I don't, I mean, what is the retreats? I ain't going to nobody retreat. Hollywood's coming back. Hollywood's coming back? Oh, okay. Um, nah. Nah, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I mean, that was the time and it's a part of the story. It's a dark chapter, but it's cool.

Right. That's a dark chapter. Yeah, it's a dark chapter. For me, I mean, for me as an artist, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, you know, to this day, you know, there's some people who know me for being on love of hip-hop. Right. And like I was saying to you earlier as far as like when you made the spaceship example, you know, with this culture. especially for, you know, people remember you.

And I mean, it's a dark chapter, but nonetheless, you know, it's a chapter. I don't shy away from it. More people know me for love and hip hop than that album with Jay Diller, right? In fairness. So I'm not going to, I would never, you know, ah, you know, it's not that, you know, it's just, you know, I wasn't always. 100% comfortable with just doing it in general. It wasn't really, you know, I did it at the time I was with my son's mother. And it was something, it was a passion project for her.

Right. You know what I'm saying? I went along with it, but it wasn't necessarily something. It wasn't my brainchild at all. There's a lot of guys out here doing vlogs and TikToks with their girl. I felt like that's kind of the same thing. Yeah, I mean. To 11 hip-hop with your girl.

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, to my, you know, I wasn't going to just do no vlog with her at the time, you know. I was, we got to get paid. Like, I'm not, I'm not really giving up my privacy just for the sake of, I mean, you know, and in all honesty, too, though, because she was a vlog, she was a blog, you know,

she was blogging at the time. She worked with, when I met her, she was working with, doing radio with Who Kid. So she would actually, she was doing blogs and blogs, and we did, You know, we did one, we did a couple. Like, you know, and then, you know, one thing led to another. And then we, you know, we had my son and we wound up doing a show.

And, you know, you know, it's funny, you know, I think, you know, we've seen as of late the things that men will do for their women, you know. So that was something like. Carbon dating this as the day after, Bill Smith smacked the shit out of Chris Rock on stage. Which what? You know, shout out to Chris. That's my guy.

Right. What do you feel in your head watching that? How do you feel about it? It was unbelievable. One of the most insanely legendary things I ever witnessed. But, you know, like I do, you know, Chris is a good, very, very good friend of mine. And, you know, my allegiance is to him. I, you know, I, but I, you know, the most sensitive thing for a man in his life,

if he loves, if he loves is his wife or his significant other and his children. You know, speaking of love, you know, that's what led to my problem with Joe Button on love and hip-hop. It was, people think it was the Hot 97 interaction. It really wasn't because that was like more of a moral conversation where it was like he was basically asking me why. things were happening and I was answering him because he because he asked me why and it wasn't he wasn't aggressive he was just a little calmer than I was at the time which I think putting people's head that he was domineer in the in that exchange but that's what Joe does to everybody right with Techstone when they argued Joe does like the sort of like toxic chill mode right he gets you pissed off but then he

just like, because that's the same thing that happens in like any argument between a guy and a girl. Absolutely. The person who starts acting crazy, the other person starts acting more normal to basically like balance it out and to be able to project upon them that they're nuts. It's really to control the tempo. Yeah. Right? So. I do that shit.

At the end of the day when I was fine with that. But when he did an interview with Jack Thriller and he had said he was going to approach me in a different way and then Jack, And then Jack went on to say, yeah, we know you, we know how you are with the ladies. And are you going to give the pen to, are you going to give Jen the pen? I just thought about my son. And I just, you know, when I got to the reunion, I just wigged. Right. You know what I'm saying?

You know, and I mean, you know, a lot of people have said, I addressed it on my new album. I got this record called You the Nigger. That'll be out soon. And I addressed the whole thing. But for me, you know, I said it 107. Say it again, you know, snuffed for a jump is a fair bar. Like, I snuffed him, I fought his men's.

That's what happened. Did you guys ever have a conversation after that to sort it out? He was in Queens drunk one night at Starlets, and I asked him come outside. He didn't want to do that. He was drunk. He thought I was going to handle him with a bottle. And we talked, and, you know, we,

we got to a point where we was like, you know, we understood each other and how it got to that point. And we took a picture. And it's funny because he later, he sent a tweet out of some shit like, yo, I had to talk to some nigga like talk or some way. You know, he kind of, you know, and even like with the mall and Rory,

the guys, once they did the podcast, They shot at me a couple times or whatever the case was, like on some sub shit. And, you know, which it was funny when their thing, when their, when their partnership imploded, my name came back up again. You know what I mean? It was like, yo, you know, and when Conce was on his neck, you know, I sent the dude at him. because, you know, truth be told, he called me, like, yo, Kahn's just stowed on me and boom, boom, boom. So it was kind of like, you know, that's why I said loving him, but it was kind of dark because it was like a lot of cap because it was like he was on TV front and like, yo, it's up.

But in a dressing room like, yo, homie just got to me. You know what I'm saying? Right. And, and mind you, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't run around here like I'm stupid, nigger and no shit like that. You know what I'm saying? but I'm a Queens, nigga. And, you know, I was going to get that man

for what he said about my lady at the time. She's not my lady no more, but at the time, but she's still my son's mother. So to spend it back to what we were talking about with the Oscar incident, you know, the most sensitive thing for a man who loves is his family. So, you know, even with more than saying

what he said as far as Lon and the situation, And I'm like, that was a problem. I had to, you know, Marl is Kareem Biggs, Burke's, his Biggs brother, little brother and hip-hop little brother. Right. And so the 360 of all that whole thing is that how much money did Kanye make for Rockefeller? A lot. And there's no secret that, you know, the part that I played and all that.

So how did that get sanctioned? And how are you on the internet bragging basically as if that's a goal? So, wait, Maul said that he set up the scenario in which you and Joe... Right. After the reunion. I smacked when I hit Joe, smack Joe, you know what I'm saying, we in the joint, the security broke us up. You know, we had two other incidences where he ran to me. I ran at him.

They broke it up. Broke it up. They put us on stage together. We're talking. You know, he's like, yo, meet me in the green. Like, yeah, bet, you know. Then the security drag,

I'm trying to, I'm, like, I'm so on pop. Like, yo, I'm just like, yo, I got, you know. Because once I swung on him, I was like, I was ready to do whatever. So, um,

so after that, you know, nothing happened inside the, inside the building. packed up. I got my son's mother with me. Go to the car. Dude is outside.

Dude, like, yo, that's fucked up what you did. Carl and he swarmed me. He hit me. He ran. He ran on the block. Right. So I put Jen in the car. He come back.

Me and homie dancing. Boom, boom, Joe come out. I was like, oh, this is you. I caught a bomb, right? And so parts of this are caught on camera, but this part isn't? The after part of this is on camera. Oh, someone did get it. Okay.

So it's two, maybe I think it was a three of them. I finally three of them. They got me on the ground. And Mall was one of them? No. Oh, no, no, no. No, no, not at all.

That's a picture. Right. Not at all. So, long story short, so that happened. So Mall is the guy, Moore sent the guy who snuffed me. Okay. Who was like, yo, that's fucked up what you did consequence

to the, reunion. Okay. So when they, when their, when their podcast imploded, he took credit for basically a line cons up. Look what a good friend I was to. Right. Look what, yeah. And but he was saying it from, yo, you know how much shit I did for you. You try and play me like a flunky. When I'm the one who can't who who who who who line that shit up, you ain't had nobody to do no shit like that. Right. And that was the first you ever heard of that. That was the first I ever heard of it. You know what I put. So that's when I put what I put on my page like yo, Duke, when I see you, you know what I'm saying? Because

you, and you taking credit for that, you're not realizing that you're also talking about what happened to me when my son's mother's in danger, you know, X, Y, Z, that ain't, nah. That's more than up, homie, you know what I'm saying?

So, he DM me and, you know, it was like, yo, I was only speaking up for Joe and boom, boom, and I eventually spoke to hip-hop about it, and, you know, hot was like, you know, they ain't fuck with Joe, like that and did it you know and and and me and hop i'm like literally have been doing business since i started coming up the rock of rockefeller you know i mean so what also is funny is that um

um um shortly after i sing hip hop at the dawn to listening sessions for some reason rory thought it was still a good idea to come and he actually said i pressed them I pressed them in front of like Jay Electronica and Dave Chappelle. But why are you pressing with Rory? Because they, because they, because why wouldn't I? Well, but he didn't necessarily have anything to do with that whole situation. Nah, he was they always, it, nah, nah. He was laughing along with it on the podcast.

Yo, it's ABG. When I'm from, anybody going to get it. You know what I mean? No, I mean, nah, but not because, you know, it was like, I think when Joe was like, on Mike Tyson podcast, Mike Tyson asked him about it and I think Joe

was a little embarrassed about it so Roy was like yeah but we got him you didn't get nobody fam right you know what I mean so when I seen him

I was like yeah so you know I asked him about the Mike Tyson shit he was like yo but boy I'm from Queens too and I'm from

Cunningham I'm like that's not Queens bro that's wherever the fuck you at that ain't you know what I mean it don't you can't use my name

in that manner that is infringement. You know what I'm saying? You're infringing on my street crack. You run around here laughing and joking like, shit is a game. And ain't a game with my son's mother's crying. So did he hold it down when you confronted them about it? Did he hold it down?

Or was it more apologetic? He was apologetic and then I had him removed. Oh, wow. He didn't say that on the internet. I had him removed. And he wasn't really happy about it. but I mean, I told him when I seen it, I said you realize that you in my yard, right?

You in my yard. I'm not in your yard, you in my yard. And I know it's great. It looks like six flags, right? Yeah. But guess what? You're about to get ejected from the park. So are you a fan of it when you see academics going in on them on Twitch?

No, I, I, look, I had to do what I had to do. I wasn't, I'm not ever really, I think. I think sometimes I get a bad rap for being bold enough to say what I feel. But, you know, I can actually separate what people do from a personal situation. You know what I'm saying? I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not like a, academic is Joe Button's son. You know what I'm saying? That's, so they basically all just having a like a little family feud.

That's what I'm saying about nothing. You know what I'm saying? Academics is Joe Button's son. They literally like, you know, like Joe was daddy to all of them. But, I mean, they did a show together for a little while. I don't really. I feel like if anything, academics probably helped influence Joe to. Nah, nah, nah, nah, that's how I look in perception.

But academics was like a media guy before Joe was. Yo, they asked me to replace Joe Button on everyday struggle. Did you try out? Yes. It didn't go well? It went great. I brought Joe Button wallet from when we fought as a souvenir. and he told Joe Button.

It's all cap. It's all cap. Whoa. You brought the wallet? Absolutely. I said if anybody got a problem with me being here, holler at the wallet. Right. And that never came out.

Right. But academics told Joe. So he's Joe, so Joe is Papa. Well, they're still friends, yeah. No, Joe is Papa. Okay. That's all that is. I mean, you know, it is what it is.

I mean, listen, act do he do. I respect what he do. I respect he do his numbers and all that. I ain't mad at him being Pop, why, that's his man. You know what I'm saying? But, I mean, anyhow, you went back and it was like, one, one, two, and three,

don't ever call me a bitch on nothing, bro. Because I'm not, I'm not a phone gangster, fam. And that's just what it is. I respect everybody at their space. But respect me, man. I'm 20 years in, 25 years in on this shit, man. You know what I'm saying? I was getting money when everybody was going to get their

going to get lunch trades. Do you actually think Rory and Mall are bad dude? or do you just not appreciate what they had to do with that situation? No, I actually think that they are good at what they. I thought they chemistry was great with Joe. Yeah. Honestly. I miss it.

You know, I don't, it's not personal. It would have never been, I didn't, it would have never been anything had that not imploded. And they implied that they tried to cause me life harm. Like, there's no, you know, like, if somebody, if somebody jump out on you and you get jumped and all that, there's no guarantee. what's going to happen? You know what I'm saying? I value my life.

You know what I'm saying? So I'm not going to take that lightly when you, when you snicker about that. That's not cool. You know what I mean? What you do as a podcaster? I mean, that's what he does. That's what they do.

I'm no, you know, I think what they do, they deliver some moments. You know what I'm saying? I don't, you know, it's no hate. It's not even personal. It's just, you got to respect the check, though. Like, yo, I'm not. I'm not, I love me too much not to check a nigga.

When lose a draw. Whatever it's going to be is what it's going to be. But I'm not going to sit there and be like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know what? Let me, you know, because motherfuckers got influence on the net. I don't give a fuck about that shit. Look at everything I just told you. If you were in the club tonight and you saw Joe Budden, do you just ignore each other or what? I've seen Joe since then they walk past me.

You know, like, go this way. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not. Like I said, I'm not. in the business of I've been in the club with me and Joe party. We had another situation that had something to do with a female

that I'm not really going to bring up but he know what it is. Like at the end of the day like, you know, I'm solid. I stay solid. I don't play little games with nobody. I'm too grown. I'm older than all these dudes. You know what I'm saying? I carry

myself with a level of respect. I carry myself with a level of swag. I've been in the culture. so I'm never out here looking like a burnout, but I'm not, you know what I mean? Like at the end of the day, like, you know, like I'm just not with certain shit. I just don't play certain games with niggas younger than me and shit. Yeah, I feel that. Are you in a relationship at this point?

Yeah, I got a lady. Yeah, I got a lady. She's not in the game, but she's actually someone I grew up with. And she's a very special person. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I mean, I co-parent with my son's mother. Right.

You know, it's challenging. You know, it's a lot of, it's a lot there. You know, we were fucking co-stars at one point. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's challenging. But, you know, my son is doing exceptionally well. He's rapping on my new album on a joint call Who Shot Jamal?

How old is he now? Ten. Ten. Yeah, yeah. So at some of the breakfast club, he was probably three or four or something, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm extremely proud of him. He's doing great in basketball as well.

So, you know, just trying to take a step by step, man. Are you determined to keep this relationship out of the public guy because you've done the public thing and it was complicated? I've posted it. I don't, I don't, I'm, I'm definitely, I think, you know, this is the, this is the, you know, I I've tried to really have this for me at this point. And it has just been so many things going on, but I haven't really, you know, it's tricky because she's really very, very pretty.

So, you know, there's always that, you know, want to show you girl off vibe, you know. But I definitely have received messages like, yo don't put her on nothing leave that shit your homie just that's that's that's for you right you know what I'm saying like don't don't don't let don't let the energy get contaminated yeah now knowing everything I know if I was going to have to be in a new relationship the idea of just not putting it out there on the internet at all seems very very

attractive just because you know me and my girl having a very very public relationship has been fine but I just, you know, like that privacy. Privacy is something you never get back. Right. And the chime in. Oh, yeah. The chime in.

And I think what happened to be honest in my relationship with my son's mother is like it just inadvertently became a little competitive, you know. And that's just my opinion. I think, you know, she became a brand herself, you know what I mean? So, you know, you got motherfuckers. might be I'm sure a motherfucker's DM'd her and you know was like oh fuck him and you know

you know he ain't got to go for that shit and all this other shit not knowing whatever was really real but you know I mean that's what happens when you expose you know or you make something that shouldn't be accessible

accessible yeah I mean there's been times where I've been on this podcast and I made some fucking off-color comment or something something nasty made some terrible joke and then my girl the next day got 50 DMs from different girls being like you should leave him he thought that this was funny right right right right I'm just like what the fuck being on VH1 and you know you some of the some of the dialogue me and her was like she got the same shit you know my fucking you know and it's like you know it just puts it just

it just the lose focus of love when you think about making music with your kid Like, are you just all in? Like, let's go in the studio. Let's make a song. Let's have fun. How do you approach it? Me and my son are doing an album that Havoc is producing. Wow.

From Maldives. Like, he's producing an album for us. It'll be out in July. Wow. We're all in. We're all the way in. Because there's always a choice as a dad if you rap of like how much of that you want to put your kid on. Yeah, I want to put him.

You know, he, yeah, he lit. What, you just think he's a natural or? Yeah, absolutely. He, um, You know, he has a command of language that I didn't get until I was like, like, 14. He just nice. He's really good. He's really good.

Like, he's been good for a while, like, for a kid his age, you know. Like, he did a record called Dream About Nikki, where he flipped Nicky's dreams, you know, wrote about her, and Nikki posted it. Shit did like $3 million on our page and shit. Wow. It's like he did a remix of Copshot the kid that Puff and a bunch of other artists co-signed. So he's been hitting it and he's just been warming up. And I think, you know, he's going to emerge pretty soon as a legitimate, as a legitimate artist.

That's dope. Are you at all worried about what that might be like, you know? It's like being a young. Me and him is official, so I don't, you know, it doesn't concern me in the least bit. You know, only thing that concerns me is me wanting to make sure he fulfills potential. Who's he listened to? Everybody. Young boy?

Young boy. Yeah, yeah. Everybody, I mean, you know, TECA. Right. You know, everybody. This is his era, you know what I'm saying? You talk to him about the lyrics? Yeah, I mean, you know, if it gets like.

too if it goes to if it goes to adult yeah yeah if it gets to like it gets too too like murder murder yeah you know what I'm saying like you know like I don't ever want him to I mean I don't want him to feel like you know he's that's the cool thing to do but I don't also don't want him to not know what's shaking you feel me exactly that's a tough so it's a You know what I'm saying? Because I, you know, you know, you got a, that's part of the survival kid. He ever asked you about a young boy lyric? Like, what's, what's this mean?

And you're like, oh, so he's saying that he's going to drive up to his enemy's house and shoot them. And I'm telling him like, also, you know, that that's it, my nigga. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That ain't, that ain't that. You know what I mean? It's got to be a tough comment for any hip hop dad. Yeah, that's not it.

But you know, but you know, I know it sound good. Yeah. You know, so, you know, you got to take it with a grain of salt. I'm just really trying to get them in the space of some of it is with a grain of salt. Exactly, yeah. I always think I'll probably have to explain to my kid, like, you know you watch a movie? There's a bad guy in the movie. Well, in this part of the song, he's kind of pretending to be the bad guy in the movie,

but he's not really that guy. Like, he's actually a nice guy. Right, right. He's just kind of playing a role in the song. Right, right. You know? Like the same way the actor in the movie, he's not a bad guy. But then again, but then again.

You know, I can't give it to him just like that because actually, you know, I think it was like someone, I forgot the kid name, but one of the, one of the drill rappers in New York got bodied and they had us do New York One speaking about it. So it's like, it's a real, you know, I can't. You pulled up for that? What you mean? For the thing with Mayno and everybody where they went to? No, no, no. They reached out to me to do, and I actually had Caden on there to do the news. I didn't go when Mayno and them went to me with Eric Allen. right yeah yeah but I did uh Cheryl Willis's show on New York One and we spoke about it um because it's a real thing you know like this you know it's a real thing when somebody's dead yeah like how do you feel about that role these days of kind of being an elder statesman of rap and like you know potentially people looking for you to kind of like make sense of some of this

shit to them I think the make the most make sensible scenario is just understanding the dynamics of the hood, you know, like hip hop has always been a loud speaker for what's going on in the streets. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you have the art part of it, but then you have the pain and the passion part, which is basically induced by poverty or induced by, you know, the drive to the ground, the, you know, the escape or the conquering of your surroundings, you know. So, you know, the step as in anything else, you know, this niggas is trying to get to it, you feel me?

And this is their way of doing it, and it's just the same thing as like when you was going through that in the end of the 80s, you know, when gangster rap out here was emerging and you're going through, you know, straight up, you know, straight up when 8 was out, And, you know, it's real parallel to that in regards to the messaging is like, you know, the pain of I don't know if I got, I don't know what I have to live for. And I know me living, I'm trying to be as dominant and much of a conqueror as possible in the jungle. You know what I'm saying? Because I haven't seen anything else thus far. My psychology is based on my perimeter.

You feel me? So in that, it's remained a constant. You know, obviously the dialect changes, the motor operandum changes, but the root of it is still essentially the same. So, and I think how that was dealt with then and even to now is just the fact of just people understanding, and, you know, slowly and taking steps just in their own circumference, like, you know,

to show the youth, like, just the various ways instead of them only having one way of what their assumption is or what this is going to end up like, you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, it's always the same energy, like, it's go, it's straight, it's straight, it's real linear and you know us as a people as a culture we have a

we're we're broader than that you know what I'm saying but you have to know that you have to you have to you have to see success to know that success to know that

it comes off like a myth you know what I'm saying but when you count money in your circle and you got the you know you got the one two on you you know I'm saying

that feels like a real thing you know I mean that feels like there's gravity to that I can control what's going on I got this gun, I got this money, you know what I'm saying? I got this phone. Shit clicking, nigga, get with me.

You feel me? And it's been like that. That's what the whole premise of what we were seeing in the John Singleton movies. They were just trying to show like, yo, this is the mentality of young black men who haven't been showing anything else. And they essentially have to make a way. They have to make a way for themselves. And so they have, this is what instinctually. they believe is going to work.

And then the question kind of becomes like since that has clearly been documented in movies and it's easy as fuck to make like a cool romantic, sexy gangster movie, you know? The question is kind of like how do we steer the conversation

with young people and push them in the direction of wanting to be an entrepreneur and wanted to, you know, romanticize that and paint the picture of that being the thing that young people should be aspiring to? I mean.

How do you make that as sexy as like, you know, rolling around with a gun, which is, it's easy to make that sound cool? That's a great question. I mean, I don't think it's a simple answer, but I think it's a necessary endeavor. No, I think it's a necessary, it's a necessary, yeah, it's a necessary endeavor. It's something that we don't have a, we don't have a lot of options as far as not doing or doing it Because if you're not going to do it, then you can't complain about the outcome. And if you're all going to do it, then you can't expect it to be a microwave solution.

For sure. Are you optimistic or not so happy about, like, the state of lyricism in rap as somebody who's been rapping forever? I'm more concerned that. It's $750 for gas out here. More than that, yeah. More than anything else. I'm not really concerned with lyricism when it's $750. for your ass.

I'm definitely bless your heart if you can rap and if you can't you better figure out something because, you know, I don't know what to make of

this administration. You know what I mean? You're down on Biden? I'm down on somebody who makes less than $750 a week having to pay $750 a gallon and a car taking

10 gallons of gas. and they probably have to re-up twice a week where is the promise that was issued to get in the office. Right. I'm not saying that I voted for it. I'm not saying who I voted for.

I'm just saying, and I'm not complaining. We voted for Kanye, right? 100%. Oh, okay. Same. 100%. And, you know, I mean, that's my guy. That's the reasoning for it.

But on another note, you know, and I, you know, I'm not, obviously it was historic that Kamala Harris was nominated. I mean, it was actually awarded the presidency as awarded the office of being the first female minority vice president. And I think what her and Joe Biden did to get in office was successful. But I just think like, you know, you know. to where things are, we're not even, it was still literally having even officially crossed into spring. By the time of summer gets here, I mean, unless there's some kind of regulation,

you're going to be looking at $12 a gallon. We know that July and August is the peak months for paying for gas. You know, it's like, you know, like I said, I don't see it spinning back unless there's like literally like, yo, all right, gas has gotten too far. You know what I mean?

And I understand that that's the easy way to tax everybody, and pose to making every, because he did say in his campaign that he wanted everybody, he wanted the rich to pay more taxes. But if you're looking at what's going on, the easiest way maybe to get more money,

you know everybody has to pay, the majority of people are paying for gas. Right. So, but, you know, you never want to be in an economy when you start having to go into your savings. You know, for essentials. We know that gasoline is an essential. It's not a luxury for people in 2022. It might have been a luxury in the 80s, maybe in the 90s, but it's ridiculous to think that anybody standing still.

Like, nobody stands on a corner anymore. that's nobody does that we all got to get teslas well yeah we're going to have to do something sooner or later right they're not exactly affordable for the average person but you know maybe 10 years from now 20 years from now i feel like this whole gasoline thing is going to seem like a very outdated conversation you're only going to probably do that based on the model of the car yeah but i just feel like this is an untenable situation of us being you know the fact that we're not buying gas from russia or we're slowing that down the fact that we're depending on russia for gas in the first place or that all of Europe

depends on Russia for gas this is not a good situation to be in we should just get Tesla's right right right eventually once they're like 30 grand and everybody can get one fuck I got a piece so bad is there anything else that we should cover

like anything you want the people to look forward to I haven't done a two hour plus interview in a long time oh man that's a long two hours and 20 minutes okay that's a long one great conversation no amazing yeah I feel like Joe freaking Rogan Yeah, my new album will be out this April. It's called Nice Doing Business with you.

I'm very excited about it. We've got the first single coming out with the video. It's called Bloodstain. It's produced by Kanye West. And I'm looking forward for everybody to dive into that. And like I said from there, we got a lot of music coming. So I'm really excited about 2022. And like I said, it also featured a great,

surprise feature on my album. And, you know, one of the most famous people in the world at this present moment. So, you know, we're going to do what we do out here. Let's go. Cons. Legendary, man. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Huge honor. Incredible life that we just covered. That was amazing. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Let's go. No jumber. Coolest podcast in the world.

Check us on YouTube, TikTok. Patreon, all that shit. Like, comment, subscribe, nojumber.com if you want to support. Follow me on Instagram at Kahnst TV, Twitter. It's the cons. You know what I mean? Hollis and my real. It's the Kans for a word.

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