No Jumper - The Dale Brown Interview: Self Defense, Dealing with Hate, Defund The Police & More

Episode Date: January 11, 2022

Dale Brown has gone viral for the past few months but has been active in his field for over 25 years. He talks to Adam about g*n safety, how to defend yourself legally, helping his community and much more! https://www.instagram.com/detroit_d.u... https://www.youtube.com/c/DetroitThre... ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world. And today I'm in here with the current self-defense king of TikTok. Dale Brown is in the building. How you doing, man? Excellent. Detroit and Denver's Bevel training. Right. And when I say that, I don't mean to undermine the long, long, illustrious career that you've had before this

because you've been doing a lot of big things throughout your life. That's one thing I learned in my research for this. Yes, yes. We've been around 26 years, even though to other people, it's been like 26 days. Right. Yeah. It takes a lifetime to be an overnight sensation, right? Right.

Exactly. That's a good point. That's what they say. Okay, so, yeah, I mean, I read that you were a paratrooper. Like, like, tell me a little bit about your early days where you were born and then how you got to the stage of doing armed combat on this. Well, I'm originally from Ann Arbor, Michigan, which is where University of Michigan is located. Okay. It's a college town.

Right. Typical suburban existence, very, very peaceful. Only gangs we have there are like lacrosse and chess or tennis game. You know, I'm not sure. I was never, I never saw them. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I was martial artist as a kid.

It's wrestling. I was in firearms. My mother was a lieutenant in the Army, National Guard, before she became a full-time captain in the regular Army as a physician. Okay. And she was a doctor. And when we were younger, she was lieutenant in the Army, the National Guard, and we used to go shooting a lot.

So we used to go, when other kids would go to the movies, we went shooting. So that was always just kind of a thing that was drilled into from an early age. is the value in understanding guns or understanding self-defense in general? Yes, yes, it was just part of our life. And avid part of our life was just shooting guns. So, you know, and then martial arts. And then I was, when I went to the,

I became an airborne paratrooper in the Army. Right. And that's where I learned to not have fear. So I essentially became a person who lacked fear of people and situations. Right. And that just, that's a direct result of following through with airborne school. Were you, if you were to describe your overall personality type,

going into being a paratrooper and everything, were you someone who was somewhat timid? Were you a little bit afraid of the world? Did you have anxiety about these situations that then your training sort of beat out of you? No, no. I just, that wasn't a daredevil. Generally, I would not do things.

We're just dangerous for no reason. And being airborne, I'm jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft for no good reason. actually still flying. Right. And I could die. So I, you know, that's a decision that you make. And, you know, how many times do you make a decision do we as people make decisions that could kill us? Yeah. It's very rare. Yeah. Right. Unless you had to. Like if you have to jump out of aircraft because it's not flying anymore, that's fine. It's hard to be scared after you've gone through that sort of training. Well, yeah. For me, I had to make a decision that I'm actively going to go towards

what I know could kill me. And it's a choice. I don't have to jump. I could. just, I could actually switch my MOS in the military and just become something else. I could just do something that's not airborne. What do you think it was about you that drove you towards doing something so risky though? Well, actually there was an individual who was, I was in junior RTC and it's funny to ask that. No wonder I ever asked that question. I mean, it's got to take a certain personality type or a certain desire to want to put yourself into those situations. Mine was more of a different scenario. It's actually the opposite. I would never have done it except that this guy.

who didn't like me. He was Lieutenant Colonel Poteet. Okay. And he showed me a picture one day, and he said, what is this? I said, it's a, this is a redneck with no neck. He was like, it's him. He was younger. Okay.

And he had like a goat, like a mohawk, no neck. And it was like somewhere in Georgia or something. And he was trying to intimidate me. Right. And I was like, he goes, no, that's something you'll never be brown. That is an airborne paratrooper. And I looked at him, I said, that is something I would never want to be. Someone who jumps out of a perfectly good working aircraft for no good reason.

And then he put me out of JROTC. Wow. That's how I went down. Yeah, that's how I went down. So I was never going to join the military. I was never going to jump out anything perfectly flying, flying. But later, I remember that I wanted to prove this individual wrong. And that really stuck with you.

Yes. I never knew it stuck with me, though. Wow. And so, you know, as later as I ran out of economic opportunities, and I had to decide what I was going to do with my life. I was like, well, there's always the military. And, you know, so in my family, if you don't go to college, you don't get any money. Right.

So I had no money. So I had choices of, you know, living off of minimum wage or join the military. Right. So I decided I joined the military. And I was like, I'm going to prove that guy wrong. It's crazy how something like that can really drive you towards things. Like, in my life, I've noticed there's a certain. extra level of motivation that I can summon when I feel like I'm fighting against somebody who has in some way spurned me or made me upset.

You know, that's just like I find motivation from that. And on the other hand, if I feel like I'm at the top of the pile for the business endeavor that I'm doing, it's very easy to get complacent and just stop thinking about how to elevate your shit. Once you have somebody nipping at your heels, that changes everything. Right. That's right. It's right. It's all psychology. It comes down to psychology and motivation. And I didn't realize that, you know, the individual really bothered me.

But, you know, it really did. And what it did, though, I can thank you for that because it changed my life in a very positive way. Now I had no fear of men. I had no fear of situations because I lost my fear through the lack of fear of gravity and death. So now I can't just jump on up airplanes and helicopters. I can do whatever it is I decide to do. No matter how dangerous it is, I can completely be mission motivated and not worry about money or a future or success more than just completing the mission. And that's what it did for me. It changed my life that way.

Right, definitely. So how long were you doing the paratrooping thing? And what were the extreme situations that that led to? Or was there anything crazy to happen? No, nothing. Nothing. I was Hollywood. I didn't go overseas. So I'm what you call Hollywood paratrooper. So it means you didn't deploy to war. Okay. And I'm thankful for that because I'm very glad I didn't go to someone else's country. Right. You might feel a little different about it now. Yeah. I would never want to do one to others as I would not want done to me. What was the war that you would have been deployed to if you... It would have been Iraq for sure, 100%. Okay. Interesting. And at that time, what was your view on what we were doing out there?

Were you very much like pro-America on 100%? No, I was pro-defense of our country in our country. Right. Never about going over to someone else's country, ever. And so, you know, I grew up in West Germany in high school. Right. So I got a chance to meet people in Germany. Right.

A country we, you know, although I had German first. friends, we were occupying. And you don't think of it like that as a kid. Like, I'm in high school. But I'm an occupying force. I'm part of an occupying force. And I really, you know, once I saw that, you know, the German people were not all happy that we were there.

And I realize I'm a member of occupying military force. I'm a high school kid, but that is how I'm there. I did feel, you know, I felt like, you know, I felt wrong. Because I would not want to be in America and have German soldiers in our country, you know, regulating. us. So, you know, I just feel like we should treat other way we want to be treated. Right. So at some point, you choose to leave the military, I'm guessing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And for me, I realized that was not going to be my, you know,

my future anyway. I was never in that thought process. For me, it was a temporary condition that, you know, for me would be a stepping stone. And that's all it was for me. So for me, what was really important to me is helping people and doing things that I think people need, that would be positive. So, you know, anything that's force or violence oriented would not be considered in my book appropriate. So I didn't

want to do that. And when I was a private investigator, when I got out of the military, I... Can we just move the cup to the side just because he's taking the thumbnail photo right now? Sorry. And so when I was... After the military, I became a private investigator. I did some bounty hunting. And what I found was that

when you're involved in those kind of things, you're actually being a part of people's negative experiences in their life. And I don't want to be part of something negative. So if I give you pictures of someone in your family doing something you don't want them to do or something that makes you upset about your husband or wife, although on television it sounds a good idea in real life, you're making people

sad. Right. And when you're bounty hunting people, you're actually bounty hunting people that are already having a bad life. These aren't like, you're not going after. I thought it was going to be like really bad guys, right? It's just people having a bad life, man. They're even on drugs or they're, you know, poor, couldn't pay dead or something. And so I don't want to be a part of that. So for me, bounty hunting was not positive, providing pictures of people doing inappropriate things.

Right, because as a private investigator, like, you are doing a good job when you supply somebody with something that essentially confirms their fears mostly, and that probably means the end of their relationship. Or just a bad situation. You know what I mean? You're just bringing light to badness and illuminating a bad thing, and you're part of it. So bad things happen all the time, but do you really want to be a part of this bad part of someone's life? Right. And for me, I hate to see people sad. So I realized that's not, I can't be a part of that.

So, you know, for me, what I love to do is see people do well. So I like to teach people. And I was actually a swim instructor. And I'm okay at swimming, but I'm a swim instructor and people are learning for me well. And I can see I'm good at teaching. The one thing I loved all my life was martial arts and firearms. So I kept studying martial arts, going to different schools. And for me, martial arts was not about trophies and winning things and learning about the esoterics of different cultures.

You know, that's fine, but that was not what I was there for was there because I liked self-defense. I like the idea that you could maintain your freedom and the freedom of others and stop violence and tyranny of a violent individual or group against a person. That's interesting because, I mean, like in the 90s or in the 80s, and stuff that a lot of martial arts had this weird, you know, Eastern mystique thing about it, right? Like now when we think about self-defense, we think about jujitsu, we think about all the shit

stemming from the UFC, which kind of like showed us which styles were actually effective. And I mean, I remember as a kid, I remember being in karate class, and I remember thinking, like, what the hell is this goofy-ass shit that they're telling me about my chi and all this stuff?

You know, I just wasn't into it. Yeah, and that's what happened to me is I got disillusioned when I would go to these martial arts schools and, you know, they would start talking about things that, you know, it's not really, it's not actually functional, and I know it's not, right? And I sparrow with them and I'm beating up the kids that I have, you know, advanced, you know, the system. And, you know, I was like, this is not really what I want to do.

And I see it's not working for them. They've been here four years, five years. I just joined and I'm, you know, beating their butt. So why would I want to continue this? And so I don't want to be disrespectful, but, you know, that's not what I joined for. I didn't join to learn more about someone else's cultural, esoteric meanings of their martial arts, although I liked martial arts,

that's not what I was there for. And so, you know, what I did was I thought, man, wouldn't it be great if we had a system we could study that taught us how to fight standing up, fight on the ground, fight with a knife, a pistol, a shotgun, a rifle, fight with a baton, fight with a brick, whatever you have to do, but know how to do it legally.

What if there was a legal system to help us long, and how to do that? And that's what I learned from law, from being a private investigator was, law is more important than fighting. You would much rather lose a fight and go home and go get some stitches, then win a fight and go to prison. And there are people that are going to prison right now today simply because they won the fight.

And they couldn't legally explain their actions. So if they would have known how to legally use force, they could have stopped themselves from making a decision that was later used against them to prosecute them. Did you feel like the overall martial arts landscape at this time, the self-dispense world, that there wasn't really anybody doing stuff that was this practical

or that was this sort of grounded in reality? To this very day right now. I've said it for, I've been saying it publicly for 10 to 20 years, you know, openly in different formats and nobody's trying to even approach the idea that you should legally know how to defend yourself, which is insanity.

If you think about it, you're actually telling kids and adults to choke people, punch people, kick people, and nobody's explaining the laws that correspond with that. Now, imagine an adult like Mr. Miyagi and karate kid, and he's following a kid, which is a minor, which is already illegal. Then he beats up some other minors, which worked out well in the movies, but you try that as an adult. You've just committed several crimes, including use a physical force on other minors. You never saw it legal an event.

You never called the police. You didn't try to avoid conflict, and you put your hands on minors. That guy would never have done karate kid too. Right. Right. In real life. But imagine when no one's over telling us this. How about when can a minor choke another minor?

Right. What do you do when the police get there? You're choking someone, the police pull up, and you're choking them. From my experience, though, like, the police don't usually seem excited about pursuing charges against people who don't seem like they were the aggravator or the instigator of the fight, right? Or do you find that that does happen quite? Though, it happens often. Really? Very often.

It's using the rule in law enforcement traditionally is this. The winner goes to jail. The loser goes to the hospital. Now, that doesn't mean the winner was not the. defender of the antagonist or protagonist, you know, that's not the issue. The issue is if you won, you go to jail. And then you get that started out in court afterwards, right? They're not even interested. They're not even that deep into it. However, you can piss off police by what you say to them, right? Or your attitude. So what I teach is how to survive even police encounters by creating a

positive interaction with police officers when they have contact with you. And that is, that's why in our 26 years through force-on-force conflict, we've had no court dates because we know how to, I don't I don't care what jurisdiction we're in. I've been in Denmark and I put my hands on someone and take them down and no problem. And I've been in country towns. And of course, in Detroit and urban communities in Canada and Ohio and other places, I've got to put my hands on people and no court dates. So you have to know how to not just legally explain something in a non-offensive way to law enforcement when they arrive.

But you have to also know illegal procedures by how you're going to communicate. And also how to use psychology so that you can de-escalate any kind of potential conflict between you and law enforcement that responds to the situation and you won or winning the situation when they arrive. Right. So a lot of has to do with things that are subconscious like your voice inflection, facial expression, head position, all those things have a lot to do with how the police officer is going to feel about you.

Right. So including how you look. Are you starting from a point of view of someone who looks at the cops with fear? Like is that something that you've had to deal with throughout your life and this has become something that you thought was important? It's just as important to teach kids how to deal with. with cops? Yeah, well, it doesn't matter if you fear them or not. You should fear the consequences of their actions when they write down a report in a certain way. You might be a great upstanding

citizen. This police officer, the way he writes this report is going to determine your freedom or not, right? And so a lot of people will know that until they're in that situation. They say, you know, you don't hear that story from that guy. You was here. Someone was at a bar fight. Someone was at someone's house. Someone got to a fight and they got arrested because they did XYZ. You didn't realize it was self-defense. You didn't realize there's another side of the story. All you remember is, XYZ happened. They got arrested. They got prosecuted. Right. And so there is another side of the story often, and that is that the person that was prosecuted was actually the good guy, but didn't know how to either, A, explain it in a legal format or said something that was so offensive that they got re-articulated.

Right. Meaning the law enforcement officers, when they got there, they wrote the report a certain way based on several factors, which includes your attitude. You know, when you're talking to the police officers, lots to do with, you know, how they write the reports. So that's what we learned in many years of application. And so you can be a great fine, upstanding person. But if you spoke in such a way that the officers didn't believe your side of the story or didn't like your side of the story, just like if the witnesses are there. The witnesses, if they don't like you and there's more witnesses against you,

that can usually play a negative part in your freedom plans. Definitely. So how do you go about putting together this system of self-defense? Like, how do you go about creating a martial art at that point in your life? Right. So what I did was, for me, I started teaching at the YMCA. I got to start teaching in the parks. I didn't have any money.

So I just, you know, I was a swim instructor at the YMCA. And I started, I asked permission to teach class there. They gave me permission. I created the system. And, you know, when I first created, I was using sport systems, sport ideas, sport, fighting. I didn't know anything about, you know, how you would bring things to closure. Because I haven't been in any, you know, serious conflicts before. I'd never been in life and death struggle.

You know, so it was all theories. So I've been in some fights, but nothing super serious, right? And so I would say 75% of the things that I learned from martial arts just didn't work. I just wouldn't work. They can't work. And that's because of where their origin is from. So the martial arts that we're being exposed to, these are from businesses from Asian countries. They're not actually true combat arts.

They're not from like actual, you know, military. Traditional arts are, you know, someone who did good business in that country. and was able to market themselves and create a class and a school and market it better than other people from their Korean culture or their Chinese culture or Japanese culture

and that became a business that we heard about in our country And it's optimized for to be a business. It's not like, oh, come in and do these like 20 classes and then you'll be done. No, it's like this is a lifelong journey. It's going to take you 10 years and you need to be a black belt to defend yourself.

It's very expensive, right. It's actually a really serious business. And then you find Americans cutting off their Asian heritage lineage by starting their own American version of the same martial art. And then that becomes his own business and politics and all kinds of stuff. And at the end of the day, I didn't want to get involved any of that. So for me, I thought wouldn't it be just a pure place if you had just a pure training? No art, no sports, no taking your shoes off. I'm a Michigan. We don't really walk around with no shoes on.

and laws are always important. So before I do anything, why wasn't I taught the law? You know, why is there not one martial art? And I studied probably 20, 30 different art forms from instructors, both in group settings and privately. And I never had anyone discuss law. But yet law is literally the most important thing you're going to know when defending yourself, because it's not going to be self-defense,

if it's not legally considered self-defense. You're now the aggressor. You're now going to jail and or prison based on how much damage you did to the person. Regardless of how you felt, how you felt, it's how the police feel, it's how the prosecutor feels, it's how the judge and jury feels.

And before that, it's how the people in your area, the witnesses feel, right, that matters more than how you feel because that determines how this is going to be articulated, how it's going to be explained legally in the court of law. So for me, I thought that would be vital. And so what I did was I started teaching in Detroit

where I thought people really needed, you know, this training. A girl got chased off a bridge in 1995. And that's what made me think, you know what? I need to stop thinking about business. I need to be thinking about people. You know, this training could save lives. If somebody, and my theory was that if somebody was on that bridge, then these men could not have ripped the car door open with a crowbar

and pulled this woman out in front of her daughter and stripped her clothes off of her in front of a crowd. of people on the Belal Bridge, which is a bridge that connects Detroit to the largest island connected to a city in the United States. They threw her off the bridge? No, they did not. They ripped her clothes off. She jumped off the bridge to escape the men.

What the fuck. Men were cheering. The news media said that the men were cheering as she was fighting for her life and they were saying, you know, kill her. And I thought that was lies. And what I can tell you is that at that moment, I became devoted towards being the the creator of the conditions where we could stop that in the future. I'm going to make sure that we have someone trained that can help you and your family.

They could stop your mother from being chased off a bridge, being ripped out of a car, being stripped to public. I'm going to create this training system for them. I'm going to make it accessible to them. I'm not going to worry about money. I'm going to go teach this on the east side of Detroit where it's really rough. And I'm going to make it safe for people, right, through the training. And then doing so, I'll actually be able to prove the training is real.

Right. So you'll actually be using this training, not just in a school, but in the streets to protect yourself and others. And that was my original idea until I got on the east side of Detroit in a place called Crack Alley. And there I discovered that the people needed more than training. I thought that when you call the police, you tell them the situation, the police will then come there and then protect you. Law enforcement is law enforcement. Their job is to enforce laws that have been broken. They can be there sometimes ahead of time.

That's luck. Or sometimes an officer, you know, happens across something or, you know, happens to be assigned to something that's very rare, but could be there to prevent. That's possible, right? But normally, law enforcement responds to rape, robbery, murder, for example, after it has happened. Right. To enforce laws.

But we don't think of it like that from watching television. If you think about it's not fair to say, well, where were the police? Well, the police were on their way. They weren't in your bedroom. Right. I can't be there. It's not realistic, right? And so my thing is instead of complaining about the police,

Why don't we just teach people to protect themselves? Well, we've got to do something more than that. And what I did was I realized that the situation is so dangerous. The gangs are so dangerous, the men and the groups and the, they're so dangerous that you need more than just an individual to protect their family. You need more than just the single mom, the senior citizen to protect themselves. You've got to provide, we need to provide a rapid reaction force, a group that could help them. So I went to the building owner that owns 10 buildings in the area.

nine of the 10 buildings. And I said, you know, we need to help the families because in your buildings, in this one square block. And I live in one of the buildings, but I live in the, like the upper middle class or middle class building, right? And then the buildings around the corner, the crack alley, are what we call at-risk buildings. Right. That just means there's no protection.

So at risk for horrible conditions means someone is not protecting you with good doors, you know, adequate security and safety and lighting and other things you need to be safe in your home. And so I went to the really wealthy guy owns a 17-story building, another building next to us 10 stories and all those other buildings. And I said, you know, sir, there's a murder every month in your buildings

right on this one square block. Wow. They call it crack alley. I said there's daily home invasions. I call the police so much, the 911 operators knew my name. Right. I would call them. I was like, there's people screaming, there's shooting. There's someone's yelling for help. They're like, Dale, we know. We know, Dale. You're called yesterday.

I mean, there's every day we're shooting guns, like literally every day, outside of, you know, the buildings, like very close to where I live. And what year are we talking to? What's about, I'm 94, 95. And so, you know, I'm calling all the time. And I'm thinking that what the citizens need is like a liaison. We're going to explain, I'm going to show you how to explain this to the police so you can work with them. They can work with you to, you know, protect the neighborhood, right? What I thought was the problems I watched the news was that the families, the people in Detroit aren't helping the police help.

them. They're not snitching. They're, you know, embracing criminality and they're, they're just not doing the right thing, you know. And so what changed me was a little girl, she was 14, she's being attacked by a group of women. And I watched for 45 minutes while she was attacked. I watched her get attacked. I called repeatedly to 911. This is on the streets of Detroit. This is at East Jefferson and Holcomb Street, which is a major street, right near the mayor, across from Jeffersonian, which is a big condominium where wealthy people live. But on this side of the street, it's not wealthy. It's where poor working class people live.

And make a long story short, it's a six-lane road, basically, a six-lane highway. Excuse me, six-lane metropolitan street. So it's very large, but it separates the wealthy from the poor. And I live on the poor side. So I go to the building owner, I say, listen, we need to put up lighting. We need these other things. He was not interested. But the girls being attacked.

And before this happens, I went to the building owner. I said, you know, we need to improve the safety of the people in the community because you're having these home invasions and murders. And he looked at me and he said, oh, wow, yeah, I'm not interested in anything you're saying right now, but good luck with helping your people. Right. I was like, helping my people. What are you talking about? These are your people, actually. They pay you.

I mean, it wasn't causing him to lose out on any money. It was. Or it was. It was. Because I'm thinking that he doesn't give a shit because he's right. He's just making money. He's a fucking slumlord, right? Right, right.

He's actually saying the opposite. He's saying, listen, I'm not making any money. I'm not buying any new doors. No lighting. I'm not doing anything for these people because I'm not making any money. I haven't made any money since the 60s. I guess that's even worse. Right.

So he's like, why would I spend money if I'm not making any money? Okay. And what does you think you can do the entire Detroit Police Department can't do? Right. I mean, they can't do it, but you can. How is that possible? You have a dog and a rifle? I mean, how's it going to help?

Yeah. And I was like, you know, it's a good point. How would a dog and a rifle and me be helpful? I was like, well, I'll get back to you about that. I'm not really sure that's going to work out. So I came back with a plan. So first I did do some research. He was not interested, right?

So I found out he lost $70,000 at the time there was a murder. And every month there's a murder. He lost $70,000 every time there was a murder? Yes, because people would move out. Oh, wow. So these people are working class. They're not poverty-stricken. Right.

They could actually move. So some people were, the senior citizens were generally not able to move, and some single moms couldn't move, but a lot of other people were families that are poor working their way up, you know, out of the economic class. But they had jobs, and they could leave. And they would leave when the murder happens, they leave the building. I believe it.

Or buildings, right? And so I said, I heard you lost $70,000 last month, and you've been losing. So I said, listen, why don't you give me six months? Give me a free apartment so I don't get evicted because I don't have any money either. And I was working for the guy at $4.15 an hour. he was paying me for $15 an hour and minimum wage was $5.15. And I worked 80 hours a week but got paid only for $40.

And I wasn't working. So when we say a working, I was volunteering 40 hours a week to protect the community because it was that out of control. Wow. And so I knew this, though. If I'm going to help the community in a meaningful way long term, I need the legal rights to enforce the rules of law in those buildings. So that's all I care about.

I know I'm not going to make any money or anything. And then he said, you know what? I'll give you that. I said, let me give this one office at the bottom of the building, which is right on East Jefferson. So I got a school now. It's 500 square feet. It's about really about the size of this room that we're in right now.

Okay. That's my whole school. Okay. And it's a bathroom and a little small little office. I said, let me have that so I can train people from the community and I have a school. And I will train people to protect their buildings. Give me a free apartment in each building of the 10 buildings. And so I found volunteers at the streets of Detroit.

And I said, listen, I'll give you a free apartment. I'll train you for free. I don't have any money, but I can train you, give you a free apartment in exchange for you protecting your building. And then I got one of the clients to, one of the owners of buildings to purchase Nexttoe radio

so you can actually press a button and communicate with multiple units at the same time. So we're going to all help each other. And so now we've got like a walkie-talkie system, it's cellular based. And next thing you know, we're able to have a group that can actually be helpful to stopping

home invasions and murders. Right. And all the murders stopped immediately. I caught a set of home invaders about a month later. And after that, there was no more home invasions. I stopped some carjackers, carjackings, and some other extreme violent conditions and caught some people that did some shootings. So most of your time you're spending doing what, like just foot patrols of the area? Are you spending a lot of time talking to the residence and stuff? And responding to them. So now my response time. So they can call you instead of the cops. No, they have to call the cops. them legally call the cops. So there's always a legal accountability path where you're calling

the police and the only reason I'm taking action is due to exigent circumstances. Right. Right. So you're required, this very day, you're always required to call police first before you can call us. Okay. And if police get there first, that's great. We'll help them, you know, help people. But our point is to help the people. The law enforcement community, their job is to enforce

laws. You can't ask the police to worry more about your personal issues when their job is primarily law enforcement. Right? Their job is figure out who broke the law and then figure out who they're going to prosecute. Right. We don't care about prosecution.

We care about the people. So when I get to the seat, I don't know if you're high or drunk or, you know, what's going on with illegal drugs or something. All I care about is the way trying to rape or kill someone. And that's what we're here to stop. Did you feel like the community mostly appreciated you? Because I'm assuming the criminals were upset deeply about you being there. Oh, absolutely.

The criminals were extremely unhappy. Right. And I would think that it wouldn't be out of the question that someone. would kill you. Me too. So I really thought, you know, I'm supposed to I'm from the suburbs. I was like, well, what can I own? Once I saw that there's really violent people out here, and these are gangs and clicks and they're making money and I'm interfering in their functionality, I was really sure I was going to die. I was pretty sure there's no way there's going to be a long-term plan here. Are there people on the street selling drugs? And is that within your jurisdiction to tell them to

stop? I don't, you know, I don't know, but I don't care about that. Okay. You're not interested in that kind of stuff? My thing was a rape robbery murder. Okay. So if you're selling, selling something to someone else's buying, that's not on my business. That was day one. I never cared about any of that. I think that would be a good thing for you not getting killed by these people. Yeah, no, they don't care about that. If you interfere with that, I can see that been a very fast issue.

Well, I'm going to interfere with it anyway because that wasn't my point, but no, the interference is natural. So what happens is you need to be able to go in the buildings, apartment buildings, you know, with hundreds of units. You need to be able to get in these buildings, and you need to be able to create mayhem. and you need to, you know, have traffic, right? So you're selling something. You need to have traffic.

Then some of the people that are involved in that behavior are going to take things from other people to live in the buildings. And they're going to terrorize those people. So what I did was to control the buildings and physically kept people out that could not legally be there, which inhibited their business, the illegal business. So inadvertently, people that are being inappropriate towards whatever they're doing, right, realize that this is not a good place to do that and there's no opportunity. And as a result, we stopped the things that made your life inappropriate.

So when you come home from school with your mom and some of the guys sort of talk to your mom and then she says no, and then they spit on your mother and you're nine years old, that upsets you. So instead of me being, you know, not involved in what, is important to the families in the community. I looked at it like, what if this was my family? What if I grew up here? What if I was a little kid and my mom got spit on just because she wouldn't talk to these thugs out here, right?

That are sitting outside of our apartment that we live in the building of, right? What if I live in the building and they're coming to my mom's house and taking our furniture because they have five guys with them and they want to take our TV and take whatever my mom owns, right? That's what they're doing like a third world country. They literally come to your house and just take things.

You know, what if I was my grandfather, who got pistol whipped and then had his car taken. And then when the police get there, they just tell everybody to go in their rooms. What if that was my grandfather, right? Instead of saying, well, these are someone else's family. I looked at it like, what if this was my family? And I approached it from that perspective.

I wouldn't allow you to pistol whip my grandfather and take his car. Okay, so that's not going to be allowed anymore. I'm not going to allow you to terrorize a woman by putting a gun inside of her mouth and kicking her between her legs because she decided to have sex with someone else that you didn't authorize you to have sex with. So you were really traumatized by a lot of this bullshit that you were seeing going around there, huh? Yeah, actually that's a good way to put it.

I was literally traumatized. You couldn't look the other way like a lot of people would. No, no, I couldn't. I couldn't accept that this is the way it's supposed to be. And would you say you have just a deep love from Michigan and the place that birthed you? Just people. Yeah, because a lot of people, when they see

the high crime rates in a place like Detroit or whatever, they just want to leave. They want to go moves to suburbs, whatever. That was never even in your head? No, no. My point was, you know what? I really thought, like you said, trauma. It's a good point you brought that up.

It was very traumatic for me because I didn't know that we had this problem in America. I didn't know that in the United States you could actually home invade people and terrorize them and nothing would happen to you. I did not know that was even possible. So I'm literally traumatized. You mean there's men will attack a female, beat her, torture her, and other people will cheer. I couldn't believe that. And so now I can tell you for sure.

In fact, I thought the media was lying. There's no way this is happening. There's the media is making up stories. You know, that can't be that that can't be true. And what I can tell you, because we've been through these things now, yes, yes, they will watch and they actually assist in the torture of a female or a male by himself or, you know, even a male and female being tortured by a group. And they'll cheer.

Random people will cheer as your sister or brother, your cousin, your indecent nephew is tortured in public. And they'll cheer for their deaths and assist in keeping them in the circles. they can be killed in front of them. And we stopped these murders. We stop these group deaths physically. So what I did was my group stopped the murders and home invasions. We made it so the rich people got richer because what happens is once there's no home invasions and murders, people stop moving out and people keep moving in.

Now your occupancy goes from 30% to 90% to a waiting list. Now the store at the end of the street is thriving because it has more customers. And because of our presence and because of our rules about the buildings and because of the fact that we're in the area and we're highly responsive to people's needs, whether they're paying us or not. You know, it doesn't matter we're not going to let anybody get attacked in the community, period. And as a result, it changed the quality of life for people that don't even live in the apartments, people to live in the houses near the apartments. I remember one sheriff's deputy, he's like seven feet tall, comes into a place where my team members are meeting downtown Detroit. And he says, who's in charge you guys? And I was like, uh-oh.

He's a sheriff's deputy in uniform. He's like, seven feet tall. And he's like a lieutenant. And he goes, I want to who's in charge you guys. I was like, oh, that's me. I was like, oh, what do my guys do? Right. I thought some of my guys messed up or something.

He goes, I want to say, thank you. My mother has lived in that neighborhood on this street. for the past 40 years. Right. She says, because of you, she feels like she can sleep at night. And I want to thank you for that personally. Wow. I was like, wow, man.

That's amazing. Have you felt like you've always mostly had a good relationship with the police? Not then. Back in that time. So that was my first pot. Well, probably had three or four positive police contacts at that time. That's in the 90s. And this is like maybe the fifth one.

Right. So there were some positive officers. These are officers that are community oriented that would support us, right? But that was very few and far between. Some of the cops got to feel threatened by what you're doing. Or they think you're fucking vigilantes basically. It was just the thing, though. I wish it was that complex or that, you know, neat or that, I thought, you know, I wish it was that pure.

It was literally not even that serious. It was more like just because you think you're somebody or you, you know, are trying to help the people or you, you know, believe in yourself is good enough to be targeted. Right. And then what happened eventually was I was training police officers and I started employing them. And I started letting my organization, we became in charge of nightclubs where the gangs were. And they were also the hottest nightclubs. And so we became the people that would go up against gangs and we would be able to stop them. We're the only organization that could actually stop gangs in Detroit physically.

So as a result, we thrived. How many people do you have working for you by that point? Over 100. Wow. And I went from a dog and a rifle and, you know, like nobody to over 100 people a day going out to different nightclubs and places to protect in a year and a half. I assume this is when your business started to look better when you started actually making some money and like really realizing like, wow, I got something here. Yeah. And then I started thinking like, man, I guess I'm not going to die.

I thought, wow, I'm going to actually make it. Like, I could actually survive or something. You figured this all out on your own in terms of running the actual business side of it? Yeah, and it was traumatizing, man, because you're dealing with people. And one of the hardest things to do is to manage people. Right. The biggest enemy to your business is your employees or your team members. It's not strangers.

It's not, you know. Especially once you have 100 people. It's very hard. They cannot even imagine, man. Maybe 10 people. Right. I can kind of keep an eye on what's going on. on but when you have a hundred people it's got and they're deployed in all these different places

different cities and even different states yeah yeah it was um it was uh terrifying once once the reality of the not just complexity but the accountability so as a civilian remember you're accountable for these people in every way so my first job i would do at the beginning of every day it started apologizing for inappropriate statements or actions of people i thought my full job full-time job was apologizing wow so thing is we train every day. So every day in order for you to go to deploy to work, you had to train from 6 p.m. to 9 or 10 o'clock at night every single day. So just so you can go to work that night. And it was tactics. And you have to keep doing that. Every day. Indefinitely. So what happens is you, one week, you're 20 hours plus tactical training. We're about elbow strikes,

takedowns, uh, disarms, knife disarms, gun disarms every single day. And that's because people try to kill us often. So you cannot survive if you don't have a place to get your skills and your skills just like football or baseball or basketball or any other sport, boxing or anything. You have to use it. Right. And in real life, except the differences are trying to kill you. Right.

So. But all these guys you have working for you are armed as well? It depends on the situation. Okay. Right. So, but, you know, what you find out is that guns are not going to really help you in a situation where you're in close quarters, you're in a place with lots of people.

There's no field of fire that's clear. So this concept of using a gun to finish up against a gun doesn't work. And that's why, you know, there's people that have a job and they have two guns at a time of their death. And they were doing a great job. And a person with no training

was able to kill them, somebody because the gun was not the proper solution to that situation. And I know some guys who were great, great officers, great people, and they died by being killed by someone who had no skill. Right. And that's because our idea that somehow we're going to be able to use our gun to defend against a person with a gun seems logical, but it doesn't work out that way biomechanically.

And it doesn't mean the guys I know that died were not good guys. They were very good guys. And they were very knowledgeable. They were very skillful. But the skill that's most needed when dealing with human threat conditions is psychological. being able to read body language. Reading means recognizing evasive, aggressive, deceptive behavior.

And that's a lot of that's a psychological training. And that without that psychological edge, it wouldn't matter if your skills or superiority of the person, you didn't know that you're actually in danger yet. And as a result, you know, that's how you end up getting killed. So we really, after many years of force-on-force conflict, we learned that the training needs to de-emphasize physical force and really emphasize psychological understanding,

reading behavioral anomalies in people's behavior so that you can be ahead of their behavioral changes. And then I took a step further. And now we're able to, because of our experience, we're able to teach people how to manage threats and create a condition that you're able to de-escalate someone by understanding how to project de-escalation. So de-escalatory body language, facial expression, voice inflection,

body language. How do you project to someone? I'm not a threat to you. There's no reason for you to attack me. There's nothing to gain and you're not going to win all the same time. Right. Right. And if you do that properly, you're not going to have violent outcomes. But I had to learn that through bloodshed. Right. So through failure. So lots of failure, lots of bloodshed. It's how I learned, you know, what worked and what didn't. And now we're sharing that, you know, after 26 years of no court dates, no lawsuits, no deaths. And, you know, how do we do that? Well, it's a strategy. So that's 26 years is the entirety of the business? Yeah. You had some bad situations early on?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But no court dates. I mean, that's pretty amazing. That's very amazing because you can get court dates for nothing. Literally someone could just lie and just get you some court dates. So that's the thing is that people that don't know that, they don't understand the legal system. They're like, that's no big deal. Oh, it's a very big deal.

You can get a court date because someone lied. And now you have to get a lawyer to prove it wasn't true. So that happens all the time. And what we do is show you how to create a condition where the witnesses see things your way because you did something in an illegal way. And you formulated your actions based on civil and criminal understandings that you normally wouldn't have had. But you said you've learned so much through bloodshed. And failure.

Has there been situations that played out in which you ended up feeling guilty because perhaps the information that you were giving these people wasn't? wasn't enough. And then like down the road, you look back at it and you think, God, I, I didn't teach this guy enough for him to have protected himself. But you said no deaths as well. No, no, no, I didn't know. I mean, there's no way for me to have changed that because I didn't know. Right. So it wasn't I didn't teach him. I didn't know. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. We learned this the hard way. There is nobody else doing it. So. And no matter how, how well you train them, there's no talent that some crazy fuck's not going to pop out and shoot somebody.

Right. But what I did, though, it doesn't matter how it happened. I blame myself under all conditions. So the way I was able to fix it is by blaming me. I don't blame the government. I don't blame police for not being there. I don't blame the criminal violent criminals that attacked us and tried to kill us. I blamed me and I figured out what did I do wrong so that we could not have stopped this, right? How do we miss this? How do we miss the cues? How do we misread the situation or how did we, you know, fail to prevent this negative outcome? Right. And if you do that, you can fix it. You're never a victim. But the moment you say, well, sometimes, you know, just stuff happens.

You can't fix it in the future. You can't fix something that's not broken. So you must figure out what you did that wasn't right. And then you can make the corrections. And that's what I did every single day for the past 26 years. Our society's view on crime has changed a lot since the early days of you doing this kind of work, right? Like we remember Bill Clinton talking about, you know, super predators and just being tough on crime was like the attitude of the day. And now you see a lot of these more progressive politics.

politicians who they seem to really want to emphasize, you know, rehabilitation for criminals and a lot of the prisons in L.A. are more empty than they've ever been before in terms of them just letting people out way, way before their full sentences are done. Like, what's your perspective on that? What's your perspective on crime as a whole as like kind of a sickness on society? Like, like, how do you think of that? And what approach you think is better? Crime is about opportunity. It has nothing to do with anything else. It's just opportunity. Real crime. Now, When you're talking about what you're experiencing here in California, most other places, you're experiencing something related to a lack of mental health services. That's not the same thing. So if I don't give you medicine or I don't get my medicine and I have a mental problem, you can't be mad at me when I do something that's illegal and inappropriate because I don't have the medicine I need. So you're going to give it to me once I get in prison, right?

That's not right. You shouldn't be waiting to give mental assistance to people when they're in prison. They should get that ahead of time. And then what happened is we didn't have these problems. We got rid of our mental hospitals in this country, and then our prison system blew up. So we can try to blame Bill Clinton or some politics or something as not related to the overall larger issue. Larger issue is you closed. We as the United States, as a nation, closed down the majority of our mental health facilities.

Then as a result, those people that had mental health issues then went out and did crimes. Then we called them criminal and we locked them up and we gave them mental health medicine. Right. That's why the largest place. in the United States that receives psychotropic drugs is a prison, not a hospital. Right. Right? So,

these are people that needed psychotropic drugs before they went to the hospital. But we didn't give it to them until they got to the prison. Right. So once again, we're looking at a manufactured form of dystopian existence. We're creating these problems. Another example is Bernie Madoff

made off with more money than all the criminals ever in history. Right. Right? But he went to college. He had two-parent household. He was a great parent, apparently, except for the part where he was stealing everyone's money. Right. And he went to college, right? Right. So, so did Ted Kaczynski and Ted Bundy

and a lot of other people. Right. So the idea that there's a correlation between poverty and crime, that's manufactured. So where I'm from Ann Arbor, which is a university town, the kids there have wealthier parents. And when they would steal a car, it's called

Joyriding. We're in Detroit. In the hood, it's Grand Theft Auto. It's Grand Theft Auto. They could be riding in the car. You don't even know it's stolen. You thought the guy had permission from his aunt to drive the car. Turns out his aunt called the police and filed a police report for stolen car.

Now you are felon for riding in the car. Or my favorite is, where I'm from in Ann Arbor, since the 60s, marijuana has been legal. Okay? Unofficially legal, right? And every year they have this thing called the hash patch where people would take off their clothes, run down the street naked while smoking weed. Okay. Nobody gets arrested.

Right. I come to Detroit. They're literally arresting kids for having one joint in the car, and all the kids are being arrested for, and this is in the 90s specifically, for possession of a schedule C or whatever product, you know, drug and it's really serious. They're getting felonies. I was like, you're arresting these kids for a joint. And I'm from Ann Arbor.

Those kids have lots of joints all the time and nothing's happening to them. For sure, there's like unfair, you know, sentencing and everything. when you look at richer areas versus poorer areas and the mental health thing definitely is true. But I mean also when you look at like all these gang members that are basically shooting each other in Chicago and Detroit at record rates, I mean, I don't think most of them

are mentally ill. Most of them are like 18. They're like 16. Most of them are mentally ill. And then when you have mentally ill people, they have babies. That's mentally ill babies. And they're also abuse victims. So you can't take two mentally ill people, have them have a baby and then that baby be normal. That's abnormal. That's not true.

These are, you've got a systemic issue here. When you have, I mean, you can go back to the very beginning. You have millions of people that don't even have a human name, right? Millions of people that don't even have a name, don't have a religion of from their community. They've been tortured for hundreds of years, and now they're just free to go out and what? Somehow, some made it, but you know, you're talking about trauma from millions of people, that's not going to go away overnight. You think just like medicating more people is going to help solve like the crime crisis? Well, those are crimes. Those are people. Those are people.

mental ill. So you're saying when a person thinks that you're the devil and comes over and attacks you, that that's crime. I just think that's probably a very small percentage of crime. Like we're seeing in L.A., like the rise in crime has been people drive, like probably largely gang members or

people from bad areas. People that are in... They go to rich areas and they're like, we'll pull up with a gun and take somebody to Rolex, so they follow somebody home from the club. I mean, I don't really think that it's fair to say that those people are suffering from mental illness. They want to make money. No, no. It's more comparable to like the mafia or to you know like

it's a gang that's come together to make money these people are mentally ill 100% and that you're talking about they're actually raised by people that are mentally ill I don't doubt that there is some degree of mental illness but it's also like a lot of these people are like their children like there's 16 year old kids catching bodies all over LA yes and those people are trauma victims and they're also abuse victims and these victims these victims

these victimizations were never dealt with so although there are probably for example some pornostars that are just decided to be pornostars. There's also a lot of them who were abuse victims. No doubt, 100%. So you're talking about, are there some that just had nymphomania? Possibly. I'm sure there were.

But a lot of them that are in the porn industry were literally victims of inappropriate treatment. And my point is that that victimization, that's a huge systemic problem in our society. So if you go talk to these people, you'll understand. Now, they don't know their mental illness. They think they're normal. They think that, you know, that these behaviors are normal, okay?

Especially in this is what I found from being by working with people, right? By being with those people that were at risk. I discovered that they're mentally ill. And when you say drugs, the drugs are how they are managing their mental illness. They need marijuana, and marijuana is helping them. 100%. You're going to see a drop in crime automatically just because there's more access. to marijuana. But unfortunately, before that, or in some cases, it was distorted with other things.

It was mixed with other things. And then, of course, alcohol kills everyone. I mean, alcohol, the number of people that I've had to physically dominate that went to college is unbelievable. And we're talking about people to try to kill people just because they had alcohol, right? So alcohol, if we're, you know, if we're talking about something that is a drug or causes, you know, people to be violent or inappropriate, alcohol is the number one killer of people. Right. But even giving like the mental illness thing, if we give that to, you know, these people, like, like that still doesn't, like, how do you use that to inform how you then try to reduce the amount of crime in a place? Saying that they all have mental illness is fine. But that doesn't like that doesn't really seem like it would impact the way that you police people, right? Well, you shouldn't be policing people anyway. We should be protecting them. Uh, policing is a problem. Uh, so you, if you really want to stop violent criminal behavior and you want to help a community thrive and survive, then you'd want to want to protect it, not police it. Now, policing is a thing.

It's a thing. It's a quantifiable by negative metrics. In other words, how many rapes did you, how many people did you catch last year with drugs? How many arrests did you get? How many prosecutions did you get for murder? That's how you get money in a system that's based upon negative metrics. Now, if you wanted to do that in a way that was productive, then what you'd want to do is you'd want to have a positive metrics.

Like, how many rapes did you not have this year? How many did you prevent this year? How many shootings did you prevent this year versus last year? There's no prevention metrics. Right. So we're talking about it. I mean, shootings just happen. I mean, cops can't be everywhere.

No, no. That's not how it happens, though. Prevention is something you'd have to create. So that's what I do as I create prevention. So prevention is we don't wait. I give you example, one of the things we do in the communities, we work in Detroit. So we drive around with our lights on, on our vehicles. Our vehicles are black and they have chrome symbols.

there have white lights. So because we have these lights on criminals believe we are everywhere, but we're not, but they believe it. Now, I've had citizens and police say, why don't you turn your lights off so you can catch the criminals? Because we don't want to catch

the criminals. We want them to leave the neighborhood by seeing us down the block and that's what they do. So when you look at our crimes in our community, you see like the most serious crime in our communities in Detroit are going into someone's car when it's open, going through someone's backyard,

but you don't break in their house, or you break a window, but the alarm goes off, you run away. So we don't have the home invaders and the murderers that do happen in Detroit. They're out there. They just don't come in our communities. We protect approximately 5,000 families.

And that's homeowners associations that hire our team members. But do you think that you guys are much more effective than the police? It depends on what you're talking about. The police are much more effective at prosecutions. We have almost no prosecution. So if you were to use the metrics for law enforcement, we're horrible because we don't enforce the laws. How would you be able to prosecute anyone? Well, you take them into custody.

We did prosecute it. What do you mean? We have to stop them and take them in custody, and then the police come there and take them away from us. But then they handle the actual prosecution. Correct. We're the ones that actually have to prosecute them because otherwise, you know, how do you know the person who caught them? Okay. So in our case, we caught them.

then we turn them over to the police, and then we have to testify that we caught the persons and everything like that. When you hear people saying defund the police, what does that, does it stand out to you as a bad slogan, good slogan? Horrible. Horrible. You need to fund them a thousand percent more. Yes, in many ways. The first way is they should not be under the age of 25, and they should have a law degree first, because in order for me to enforce laws, I'd hear first of all be really good at knowing the law. Right. That's number one. I go to law school. The second thing I have to do is be really good at making good decisions. Right. I'm going to decide if you're a threat to me or not, and I'm going to shoot you, right? I need to be really good at, you know, reading and understanding body language. And if not, it's going to be very difficult for me to. The job of being a policeman is not designed to attract the kind of people that it needs. Like, you know, the people, we would ideally want extremely well-trained people, extremely courageous, smart people to do this job. In reality, it's not paying you in a moment. amount of money and to go live in a place like in a run down city, which is the kind of place that really needs effective police. I mean, there's just so many better options like working for

somebody with a company like yours, right? 85% of police, 85% of police officers work outside of cities. So keep that in mind, 85%. They're not doing nothing out there. A smart young man who wants to get into law enforcement in Detroit would probably be able to make more money going and working for you than being a police officer, right? Well, anywhere. It could work anywhere for money, but, you know, money is not, money is not the, the core issue. The core issue is knowledge. So, you know, your knowledge base has to be pretty significant. If I was going to be into enforcing laws, I would have to know a lot more about laws and how to enforce them.

But somebody with a lot of knowledge probably is going to take that knowledge and go get a higher paying job somewhere. Possibly, but there's a lot of very well-educated police officers, extremely, especially where I'm from. Every police officer where I grew up had to have a four-year degree, every one of them. But even those police officers, they want to work in law enforcement. I mean, if they could work in law enforcement, basically, for a private company, I mean, that's probably got to be pretty attractive. I'm sure any cop is looking at the police department and thinking this is probably not run optimally. Well, no, I don't, I think if they think that, I've been spending some years explaining that's completely counterproductive. So, you know, the private sector is good at servicing, you know, private needs, right?

Right. Privately, but not publicly and not public needs. So you cannot serve the public using a private sector mentality in anything, in anything, in no regard. There's never a time where the private sector mentality is for the general public. It can be for a certain group of the public, right? But it can't be for the general public. Because you mostly are operating in like affluent areas that can afford to pay for private security, right? Correct.

We work in all areas, but the ones that funded are the wealthy. You'd probably prefer to be protecting more poor areas, but those are probably the ones that don't have the budget. We go anywhere. We protect everyone. So we don't care. So for us, as an organization, I don't let money determine my course of action. I let money fund my actions. So when it was time to go to Hurricane Katrina, the first weekend that there was flooding and there was no water going to the people, I mounted a mission using my money and my men volunteer to myself.

We volunteered to go down there and help the families. We deployed making our own mission, brought our own supplies. and we helped people. And we worked with government when we got down there because they had zodiacs and we deployed with the Navy from the USS Tortuga and we deployed with U.S. Airborne that were on the Army Air,

82nd Airborne that were on the zodiacs with us into the community, Ninth Ward and flooded areas. So that is an example of what you can do when you decide to, you know, do what you what is necessary to provide a positive outcomes for people. Just from a business perspective, though, that seems difficult. There's no business there. Right, but like you have all these employees and presumably all of them are working all the time.

How do you just take some of them and go do this mission somewhere else? You can't take anyone anywhere. They have to volunteer. So that would be up to them. But then who keeps doing the job back home? The people that were working. Okay. You have extra people that might be available at all the time?

We have people that, you know, that are volunteers. We have people that work. We have people that are just students. So we're a school first. How many people at this point are you employing? Well, it depends on, you know, what situation is. So, you know. But thousands?

No, no, no. No, no. Very small. So we're about 50, 50 employees. Oh, okay. Yeah, but we have probably another 100 people that we can call on for special events or situation or conditions. I was watching the segment that Vice did on you like three years ago.

And it just seemed like, wow, there's like a bunch of people that are working under to protect these different areas, right? Yeah, yeah. So we have lots of team members, but we also have people that are volunteers that just like to help out. We have people that are professionals that, you know, just, like,

they just want to be a part sometimes to help with different events or situations and conditions. Because we help domestic violence victims, stalking victims, crime witnesses for free. So this is just something we've done for 26 years. That's all communities.

So we don't just help people in Detroit. We help people for free that have someone who wants to kill them. And we have a formula to determine that, And we escort them to court. We make sure they don't get killed before they go to court. And we provide them with whatever life-saving needs they have. So in 26 years, not one person we've protected in their free programs has ever been murdered or shot.

Actually, it will help them. Nice. So then, okay, the school is the other part of the business? No, the school is the main part of the business. Everything comes from the school. Really? Okay. The school is everything.

Without the school, you have nothing. Without the education. you literally have a liability and nothing. Right. So that's part of the problem. You cannot have, there's no way I would have anything whatsoever. I didn't have school first. Okay.

So everything builds out from the school. Yes. Education is the key to our success. Interesting. Which is why it's so strange for people to understand that, to think that you can go up protecting without extreme education. If you're going to protect people properly, you're going to have the extreme training. Right.

Otherwise, you're going to be making a lot. of mistakes and you're going to have lots of problems and as civilian you can't afford any of those. How many, how much of the school is concerned with like in terms of like hours that's open, is concerned with training, you know, people who are going to be high level security for you versus like I see you doing stuff with kids or like, you know, teaching women self-defense techniques and these aren't people who are planning on getting into law enforcement. This is more just useful stuff for them to know. Yeah, so we teach people constantly. Every week you have to train. So regular civilians can train whatever they want, people that just from the community.

But the people that actually go out and protect people have a requirement to train every week. And they test every week. So it's a very serious training environment for people that are going to go out and protect people. What kind of advice do you give to like a woman who maybe has to walk some amount of time in the urban area? And she's scared for her safety. Like how do you, aside from like the individual techniques or whatever, do you advise them to carry pepper spray? what kind of stuff would you recommend? Well, I mean, anything that you decide to carry

can, you know, increase your survivability. But the most important thing you have to have is the education. So education is, you know, understanding psychology, law, and skill in that order. If you can't read body language, if you can't read the intentions of people, then it won't matter if you have a gun or two guns. You know, if you've got 10 friends with you,

you have to have the knowledge on how to read people in situations and conditions in order to survive. and that's what we teach. And that's what will save your life. Guns and knives, they're tools, but they won't matter if you don't understand how to read people. So at the end of the day,

you know, the reality is that guns and knives are a liability without psychological understanding of predatory behavior. Right. So you have to be able to read conditions, read people, read their intentions prior to them initiated actions for it to be positive. So for all of the,

these years, you are mostly in the shadows? Were you putting effort into being a public persona or a public figure? Obviously, it's good for your business. I've been very public the whole time. So you have been, just not on a national level as much? We've been in CNN. We've been on Russian TV. We've been featured

in international publications with Vicerland and Vice. I mean, I never seen anybody with so much national international publicity for protecting people, right? Like literally in the private sector, I've never seen this much publicity prior to the YouTube and TikTok. Right.

And Instagram. So that's what I'm talking, kind of like the era before all that. Like, was that something that you always saw the value in, like going on the news, going on morning shows or whatever I might think? You know,

the point is to let people know there's solutions. You don't have to be a victim. That's always been our point. We have solutions for you. You don't have to just let yourself be killed. You don't have to let yourself and your family suffer. There are solutions and it's you. You are your own bodyguard.

We're going to help you by training you and protecting you if you need it, if it's extreme. But ultimately, the more people we have educated, the more safe the families are going to be. That's our point of our purpose. Right. Is to empower people with the ability to protect themselves. Right.

So at the end of the day, I don't care if we use humor. I don't care if we, you know, how we do it. Let's get the information out there. Let people make people look at it, and they're going to accidentally learn stuff by accident. They're going to learn things. They didn't even think they were learning because most things in our life are subconscious anyway.

Right. So we're going to affect you consciously. consciously you don't even realize that when you're looking at our videos you're going to see things you you didn't even know were an issue such as moving what's in front of the gun you know in some point the gun of you you remember this one thing move what's in front of the gun you can literally save your life just by doing that one thing right and what could that be that could be co-worker that could be what is mostly going to kill people which is someone you know most people that kill people are known by their murderers right so imagine if you knew how to keep yourself alive and safe

and and take yourself further than how to read body language Right. Can you guys pull up the video of me getting the gun put in my face? I'm sure he hasn't seen this. Can you move the TV so that he's able to view it? I wasn't even planning on doing this at all, but this seems like I basically was on a live stream in the back of my old shop. So like this place is pretty private. But we had a store in like a very public area. And basically we were sitting basically doing what we're doing right now.

But there was a door that's like directly facing the alley behind our store. And while we're getting our postmates brought in, this kid wearing a mask actually runs in with a gun and basically like tries to rob me while I'm on live stream. And the really crazy thing about it was that we had a security guard who actually pulled out a gun and had it to this guy's head from behind. He actually didn't shoot the guy for whatever reason. But it was a very, very strange scenario. And I would just like to know what you would advise in terms of, What you would say that I should have done once you. Well, what I can tell you right now is if that guard would have shot him, you probably would have been shot.

Yeah, we thought about that. It turned out it wasn't a real gun. Yes, but if it happened. Scary. Yeah, but if it had been, if he shot the guy, okay, he still would have shot you. And there's actually cases like that right now. People don't think that because they watch television and they think if you shoot the person, it stops them. Right.

Throw us in the corner so that we can have the audience watch along with us on this one and full screen it. You can put the audio on too. You see me laughing because I don't know. I wasn't sure if it was a prank or not for a moment there. I would have thought it was a prank. So there, at about the, really, it took about 10 seconds there. And then the guy ends up on the ground and we ended up being the shit of him. But yeah, I'm wondering what would be, maybe we can freeze frame that sort of one of the main inflection point here where.

So right there, look where the gun is at. Look where the gun is that. It's right there in your face. Right. So all you had to do from here is to move, yeah, move your head out of the way, grab the gun. grab the gun and redirect the barrel. I'll show you that right now. So you can see how easy this actually is.

Okay. It's the lack of commitment because obviously we didn't go over this ahead of time. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you notice you still survived. Yeah. Well, lucky it wasn't a real gun. Yeah. And luckily, maybe even if it was a real gun,

he didn't seem terribly serious. Like he was really planning on murdering me. Well, I guess he would have had a real gun if he wanted to murder me. I don't know what he thought was going to happen. Right. So if the criminal has the gun, do you want me to be the one holding in there? You got a guy with the gun?

You want to act as the guy with the gun? So the gun was here. It's literally in your face, right? So we're here. I'm kind of you there, right? Right. So from here, you're going to move your head. You're going to go right here.

Twist it up. Yep. And he's going to hold it hard, hold it hard. So he's holding it hard. And even when he's holding it hard, it comes right over the hand. Ooh. So it doesn't matter how strong the person is when you grab it with your hand, yep, hold it tight, got it tight, yeah, it comes right out of the hand. Yeah.

Okay. Sort of twist it back. The wrist can't do anything. Correct. It's the hand itself is going to release the weapon and all you're doing is going. I'm not going to get your strength here. Give me all your money. I'm going up over the muscle groups and it's going to come right back out.

Right. And so it doesn't matter how strong they are because watch this. Hold with two hands. Okay. Now push the gun towards me. Even a finger can stop it. I would probably dip around right now, about that. Yeah, but we're just talking about the fact that it's a lever.

So when a person, even though you have two hands on it, one hand is going to be strong enough to take the gun from you. Right. As long as you grab the barrier, right? But watch this. Grab with two hands. If I put my hand here, push now, you can just push. Yeah, you can push it and overpower me.

There's no way I can stop that action because I'm holding here. Okay. You actually have leverage here. But here, the gun, the person holding here always has control of the weapon. Oh, I like it. This will save your life. So the matter who you are, if you grab the barrel, you can save your life. If you grab the hand, which is, you know, honestly, unfortunately, what people do is they actually grab the hands of the person.

And that's how you actually get killed. Yeah. If you grab the barrel, you'll always survive. Whenever you watch that, it's like I'm trying to create space between me and the person, which is maybe okay, but really it's not going to stop them from shooting at you through your hands. Yeah. What you want to do is you want to get close to them. You don't want to let them get back away from you. You always want to attack your attacker.

So if you got shot once, the only thing worse than shot is getting shot again. So hurry up and get the gun. So if he had shot you, right, like anywhere here, here, if you had shot you, you still need to get the gun. So you need to go forward, which is what you did. You went forward towards him. Yeah. Yeah. You did the right thing.

So now you kind of backed up, though, at first, right? Yeah. That actually gave him more space. Yeah. So even if the gun is up here in here, right? If you hold it up like that, it doesn't matter. It comes right out of the hand. It's super easy.

Yeah. I can kind of imagine how that would have worked now. Yeah, so you see how he just literally he just snatch it. Yeah. Yeah, you almost did. You almost did. I kind of whacked it, but I didn't really get a grip on. And look, I just keep sticking it out there in front.

He was actually trying to give it to you the whole time. Yeah. I mean, if you had actually... And that's why we teach this stuff, man, you now know principles that honestly, that right there, you would just take the gun from the kid. Just come here. And you'd be done. This is not even real.

This kid doesn't have a real gun. Get out. This motherfucker. Right. All right. Well, I'm glad we got that analysis out of the way. So, so at what point did you decide social media? is going to be an important part of continuing to build my my business um well it was um

not really purposeful my wife was like hey we should do something with the tick tock these girls love to play around like well she just puts the videos out there I was like okay wife let's do that yeah and so she was like next thing you know she's like oh i'm going to study these algorithm things or something they're doing with hashtags or something and she just did something She looked up some stuff and did some research. She's like, she don't pay this lady a hundred bucks. She's going to show us what to do on here. I was like, $100 and talk to you?

She's like, yeah. I was like, oh, man, whatever. So she talks to her. She's like, oh, my God, you could do it this way. And you guys, so she listens to her. She starts uploading stuff. She puts hashtags and just a timetable. She does, you know, same time per day and a number of videos per day.

And it is a formula. Next day, you know, it just goes crazy. It went crazy. Oh, man. we got through almost three million followers in two and a half months. And so from the three months, at three months, we had 2.8 million followers on TikTok in three months.

And from the beginning, it was the kind of stuff that you would just be teaching someone in your classes. Like sort of. Yeah, normal. Yeah. Just the stuff. It's the water down version. What we're teaching is basics.

I'm not teaching our advanced stuff. I don't teach how to use firearms. I don't teach how to use a knife. Majority of our knife and our baton stuff. I teach things designed specifically not to kill people. Right. And I'm showing people a lot of methods on de-escalation. and not injuring people.

And that's what we really emphasize on there. And people are loving it. Right. But some people are taking it wrong in that they're not understanding that we're showing you some basic things that will help you survive. We know that they will because they help us survive. Right. Right.

It's based on years of experience in bloodshed, right? Not in theoretical sports classes or, you know, classes that are based upon winning trophies or breaking boards and, you know, doing things where, There's going to be a referee. This is understanding force and conflict and the police are coming and you have to know how to communicate your actions and articulate them properly so that you don't have problems in your life. Right.

And this is where we have a little disconnect because some people are getting caught up in sport thinking in a survival scenario. That is not healthy. Right. Yeah, because did you, okay, this is my question. Did you feel like the attention that you're getting on TikTok was in the beginning largely positive and then it started to as you became very popular

you started to get this wave of negativity no no it was extremely negative verbally or the minority is a very verbally um um um

oh excuse me overt uh so it's a very small group people but they're very vocal so the vast majority of people are extremely positive a vast majority but the minority of these people that are trolls and haters, they're very vocal.

So you would have, you know, we have videos with millions of likes and, you know, the dislikes are, you know, the thousands, right? But you'll have millions of likes. Right. So. But you can't really say it's just haters, right? Because I was watching a bunch of YouTube videos. And I definitely saw, like, a lot of black belts and a lot of people who are very familiar with MMA and stuff. You seem like they have a lot of.

trolls. Those are, your credentials are still, the creditors don't stop even trolling. Right. But I mean, you can't just say they're all trolling. Like, people talk shit about me all the time. I can say that I think some percentage of them are just trolls looking for reactions, but there's got to be some valid arguments, right? Well, I mean, you're, so no, in this case, so if I, you know, if I do something like, if I do something that, you know, falls under their category, I guess, but I mean, I don't have anything to do that what we do has something. do with what they do. They don't do what we do. There's no, none of them are going to go out into the neighborhoods and go protect people. They're not going to do that. They're not going to go after

class or leave class and go protect people. They're not going to go take their, you know, they're not going to leave their school and say, come on, guys, let's go outside, go protect these families. They're not going to do that. And there's a reason because you will be killed 100%. Is it weird, though, for you to see somebody like 50 cent having negative things, negative things to say about you? Like, this just could be kind of weird to have this, like, massive superstar being negative about your content? Well, 50 cent, you know, I'm not sure he, first of all, he's a superstar that is sharing media.

And without him, millions of people would never have heard of me. So technically what he's doing is helping me. Right. So, and he's actually said that in some of his other media situation with other people, that, you know, when he, when he says something, it actually helps the people he's saying something against. Right. Which is true.

I mean, our stuff blew up. Yeah. You know, tonight we're going to go talk to Snoop Dog and do some tactics with him. And he's one that was right there with the 50 Cent. Right. So we're going to show Gundis Arms with Snoop Dog today in L.A. And we just connected with him today. So we're excited about that.

Yeah. It's going to be great. And I look forward to that with 50 Cent. I was overseas with 50 Cent on his tour, get rich or die trying. Oh, way back in the day. Yes. I was with him. Yeah.

I was fabulous his bodyguard, which Fabless is his cousin, by the way. And I was with him for 30, I was with him for 30 days, man, 28 cities and 30 days. And I know he doesn't remember me because he probably doesn't put the, you know, out of context. That's crazy. He doesn't realize that guy was with, you know, him every day overseas back then. But 50-set would probably be shocked to know that was me back then. And by first day on the job, I was in Denmark and had to put a guy down on the ground, take him down because he was trying to assault fabulous in Denmark. Wow.

And so I took him down without incident, without injuring him, which means with no court dates. right, which is why you never heard about it. But it was my first day. I just met Fabulous. We went to McDonald's, which we always go in. And it's happened inside McDonald's. Rappers always go to Europe and just eat McDonald's. They have to McDonald's.

And Foot Locker. There's two things you're going to do. You're going to go to McDonald's and every foot locker in Europe. And they have them everywhere. Foot lockers don't joke. That's a fact. And I've been there. Scotland.

I was in Ireland. I went to every foot locker. Wow. Yeah. That was one of my questions is how deep your hip-hop ties go. Like if you had a lot of connections to rappers, being in Detroit all those years, a lot of famous Detroit rappers over the years. Yeah, yeah. So I've, you know, I had a chance to, you know, have contact with protection for many of the artists over the years, DMX, you know, gun disarms with various artists. And, you know, I was overseas. We, you know, it was amazing to be on that tour because that's when rap really just went to the next level.

Right. That's one of the biggest international tours ever. Right. I didn't know that. It was that serious, but 28 cities throughout Europe in 30 days is a lot. Are you aware, though, that Detroit has really been exploding over the last couple years in terms of, like, really their street rappers in particular. Like, a lot of dudes who are really from there, really from grimy-ass areas, and they've just been blowing up over the past couple years. It's been pretty wild.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And Flint as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 100%. Detroit has a lot of talent. Always has that talent. The problem was you couldn't have a lot of access to use. the talent. So that's changed

recently. But, you know, Eminem was, is influential in that. You know, he brought a lot of attention to the Detroit scene and, you know, some other rappers. Royce to 5-9 is very active there. Royce the 5-9 has seemed to be a little skeptical of some of your techniques on Instagram as well.

Until recently. Oh, so he backtracked a little? Oh, he's 100% he's 100% behind us now. Really? Yeah, I went to his studio. Oh, wow. And we had a chance to do Gundus Arms. Oh, wow. He's a true believer. Very positive professional. guy. Once he saw that it actually is real, he went right on there and said, hey, stuff's real.

He didn't realize that he knew me. Because we actually, you know, I crossed paths back in the day. My organization protected all the most seriously violent clubs in Detroit. And he was very well aware of us then, but didn't realize we're the same people. Wow. So he was like, oh, that's Dale from River Rock back in the day. Right. So, you know, he, now I remember. So we did a lot of extremely violent nightclubs. Wow. And people mostly know us from that. And the Vipers, which is a, it's a, Bodyguard section and stands for violence intervention protective emergency response system. So did you start that? You own that's my bodyguard system. Yeah. Okay. And that's still just an active business? Is that completely separate? It's not a business. It's a class. It's a class.

It's a class. It's just the bodyguard section of training. Okay. Right. So that's a program within our within our organization. Oh, nice. So Vipers is its own, that's the, that's the bodyguard section. That's what it means. It's a course of study. Oh, it's so cool they have all these different businesses that all stem from the same thing, but are able to handle different things in different situations from an individual to a neighborhood, to a celebrity. Right. There are different aspects of the education system. So Vipers is an educational program that we have for police, we have an enforcer tech program. Right. And that's training, for example, the core training we give to police officers called Nice, which stands for non-injury compliance extractions. Okay. And that's training we just give to any police

officers. You love acronyms, huh? I do. Has that always been a thing for you? You could never have enough acronyms. That's one thing I always noticed with rappers is that the guys who are maybe like late 30s, 40s, like, you know, even two chains, two chains stands for something crazy. Like all those Wu-Tang dudes, they loved that they loved an acronym.

Exoteric meanings. Yeah. You have to have that. Yeah, I got to work on that more. Okay, so one of the videos that really stood out to me and I saw it kind of getting roasted on Twitter and I wanted to know if you had any thoughts about it now. It's basically like a woman, she's walking, she's holding her child's hand,

then like this guy comes from behind tries to grab the child and then she just does this little like wrist trick on him boom thumb release and the guy just sort of throw the bags away yeah so here's what is make a fist well I'll show you okay so he grabs you come here yeah make fist yeah you come here oh yeah that's so you just push up that's it right there yes that makes sure let your child go okay okay and that's one of the basic ways we get them to let something go right now does that mean that's the only thing you'll be using no that's one of multiple levels right of response there's Three levels of response. Escape, control, immobilize.

Okay. If you can't escape from them, you have to control them. If you can't control them, you'll mobilize them. If you're going to immobilize someone, you're not going to punch and kick them. You're going to take from them their ability to see,

breathe, stand. Okay. The things you can't use in sports. How would that woman do that to that? She would take her... If she was more serious, she could take his thumb and use it to control him. Okay.

She could take his wrist and control him. She could take his nose and throw him to the ground, right? Or she could take his eyeball and rip it from his face. Ooh, I like that. With one motion. You just take the finger right to the eye and the nose between the eye and the nose right here.

You have to do much eye gouging in your career? Absolutely. Really? That stands out to me as like the one technique that we know is super effective. But I think humans in a sports. Human beings kind of. No, they do it. They don't tend to do it as much as you would think that they would want.

Yeah, that's because they're not taught to do that. It's not something that they're taught to do. It's kind of unpleasant. Yeah, and it's also going to get you a lot of trouble if it wasn't done legally. Really? So, you know, what we're also trying to show you through our training is how not to injure people by design. Right. So we don't want to show people that when your boyfriend, ex-husband or whatever, the father's child grabs the child, that you go and I gouach him and stab him.

We want you to, if you're having a domestic issue, which most issues are domestic. We're trying to show you how not to injure and kill each other. That is a good, a good, you know, thing to compare it to is like every guy has been in the situation where their wife or girlfriend, is trying to beat the shit out of them. How do you stop them for being the shit at you? My girl, luckily, is very sane. She has never tried to do that. But in the past, I've had to deal with this.

How do you restrain them from attacking you without doing anything physical to them? Because obviously, the law and society would look down upon that. Yeah, and even if it doesn't, when you're using force and violence domestically, it's just not a good thing. But most of your problems are domestic.

Right? There are most violence between you and a friend, neighbor, relative. you know, a cousin, a colleague, someone at work. I mean, it's not like you're having real problems with strangers normally. Your problems are domestic. Oh, most people have problems at work with someone. Does that mean you should be knocking their eyeballs out and smashing their skull or shooting them?

No, just because your aunt is insane or your grandmother or somebody lost their mind and they want to grab a knife, does that mean you now legally kill your family member? You shouldn't. No. Right. So we want to show you all these ways to not kill people by design. That's the focal point of our training. how do I use the law, but also knowing that I could use more force, I could also find a way not to. So that's why you see us like the thumb technique.

I'm like, we could just show her out, you know, smashing the eye or, you know, striking the throat or hitting the knee or stabbing him or pulling out a gun and shooting. But who normally these situations, especially if it's a guy grabbing a child, which you can look up on Google, you can go on YouTube and look up, man attempts to snatch child. And that's exactly what they're doing. They literally grow up and grab them. And right there with the moms sometimes, and the moms are usually fighting them back and, you know, pulling them the child. And it's not some big major terrorist act.

These are mentally ill people. A lot of them are literally mentally ill. And they're like grabbing the child going, this is my child or something. There's a bunch of them on there. Go look at them. You'll be like, wow, I thought it'd be something more serious.

Nope, it's not more serious. I feel like part of the reason why people were laughing at that one, though, is the acting on behalf of the predator because he just sort of backs away like this. He just immediately gives up. Yeah. That might have been part of it. It's actually, it's actually worse than that in real life.

You go online, you'll see the little kids actually defeat them. Really? Yeah, go look up. You'll be like, wait, she just did some move and just got out free from the guys snatching her at the store, at the grocery store, at the, you know, convenience store. I mean, they literally just, you know, the guy grabs a kid, the kid just, yeah, yeah, yeah, and gets free. Like, wait, wait, what's your special training for that? She has no training.

She just literally freaked out and just, you know, the kid, the guy just drops her, and she just takes off running. Right. There's a bunch of those. And so these are on camera. There's other ones where the guy just grabs the child or teenagers. One's like somewhere down south. I think it was a guy grabs the daughter in like a CVS or something, like a regular store.

It starts pulling the child in a grocery store. And she's pulling this guy like a teenager. Maybe he's like 20 or something like slim guy. He's grabbing the teenager pulling her from the mother. The mother's pulling her arms and legs. And then some other people came around and kind of pushed them off and that's it. That's some scary shit. But it happens all the time.

And is that guy, like, some sinister, you know, terrorist? No, he's some mentally ill person that thinks he can just go grab someone's child. Right. He doesn't have a great sinister plan. Didn't have a shotgun or rifle. He didn't have, you know, some giant, you know, made-up van. He's going to grab the kill and go where? Why don't more people microchip their kids, like cats, so that if they get abducted,

they can basically triangulate where they're at? Can I put a microchip in my kid's ear or something? I don't think they have a tracking chip, do they? I think they have. I mean, if you can do it to a cat, why can I do the person? Do they have a tracking chip for cats? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could put a little microchip in them,

and that way if they get lost, you can track them down. Really? I didn't know about that. I heard they have a chip where you could, you could actually read it, but you couldn't track them. The veterinarian could then use the chip to return. Yeah, you're right. Right, so that's different.

So that really wouldn't be helpful. But you know those, these little Apple AirPods things or whatever that they're using, people to be putting them under people's cars, and then they'll track your car, figure out where you live, that kind of thing. As long as they have, as long as they have access to internet. Yeah. I'm going to make my kids swallow one before she leaves the house. Right. That way we can track her down. You know, they do have, you know, they do have, um, tracking for your

phones, right? Right. But you also have watches. Yeah. Like this super watch. Wow, what the hell is going on there? This is a super watch. You can do everything on there? Yes. This has a sim card. It's an actual phone. Jesus. Look at this. It's waterproof. It's like three times the size of Apple watch. It has a camera. It can do audio video, live video feed. Wow. It is, uh, it can read your vitals and send in real time cellular to the cloud. So you have a tracking watch that's waterproof and can video and audio underwater, just case you need to that. That just turns you into even more of like the Batman type personality that I think of you have bone conduction earpiece. Bone conduction.

Yes, this is called aftershocks. And you just wear this all the time? All the time. You do phone calls through it or what? Yes, music. You can listen to your music. You can go jogging. It's also waterproof.

This is a great tool. This is what we use in our company, our employees. And it connects to your watch or your phone. This connects to anything you want it to connect to that's Bluetooth. And you can list to your music, but your ear channel stays open because it doesn't touch your ears. It reads through the bones of your face. Oh, wow. So you're listening to your music through the bones of your face.

It means you can still hear people. Wow. I need to check that out. Yes, it's windproof as well, so you can actually hear in high winds. I like it. Yeah, but if you're underwater, you can actually hear underwater. That's pretty good. I got to check that out.

I'm not sure why you'd want to hear underwater, but you could if you wanted to. Are there any of the memes or parodies or anything like that that you've actually genuinely found funny? What about the guys when they wake up and they're in heaven? It's pretty funny, right? I think they're all funny. They're all super funny. And then, especially the ones where I'm in them. Yeah.

The ones where I'm in them are really the funniest one. My favorite, though, is the one where I talk about the ignorant commentator. Okay. My translator? Did you see that one? Ignor translator? That's the funniest one. Ignorance translator.

Ignorant comment translator. Oh, okay. So I got it from the Obama translator. Okay. So my guy is translating the ignorant comments while I address them in a intellectual way. Oh, okay. Because I get so many dumb comments, man. It's just crazy how stupid people are.

It's literally insane. I mean, people are hating you online is a very, very good chance that they're going to mostly be the lowest rung of society. Yeah. I just can't believe the ignorance level. Like there are people that believe that when a gun's action is open, it can still fire. Right. But we're not talking about two people. We're talking about thousands of people like, you're dumb because the gun goes like this doesn't mean it can't shoot.

Right. Yeah, it does mean that it can't shoot. It's designed that way. Yeah. And they're like, no, dumb, dumb. You don't know guns because if you go like this, it can still shoot the bullet because it's in the chamber. No, it can't. Right.

So I go online and I do a video where I show it. Right. It's not firing. And they're like, I think it still shoots. But I just showed you doesn't shoot. So I went to the gun range. I did this one like last week. I went to the range.

I showed a real clock. Boom. See, fires. Now watch this. No fire. No fire. Right. See where at the range?

Now I'm going to let it go. Boom. Fires again. Now we do know it doesn't fire when the action's open. Right. I still have a thousand comments I think it was true if it's open I just showed you it doesn't do that

What are you talking about? I was going to say like even you Block comments, block comments Even you presenting that evidence is probably not going to stop People from saying Listen, it didn't stop them They're like no seriously A lot of Nickyverth, they're like

Okay I think it doesn't I okay Right Like okay So I thought I was lying Did you get your TikTok banned at one point?

Not one point It is still banned It's still banned That's not our TikTok for you're looking at someone else's TikTok. You're allowed to be us, but we can't be us. Right. Why do you get banned?

Because I was uploading content they considered to be against their rules. Right. And that is like I showed, because people are like, no one stands close to you with a gun. It's a long-range weapon. Right. So you think you can rob, rape, and kill people from over there. Right.

Obviously, you're not a bad guy. Obviously, you don't study bad guys. You don't even study data. you don't have an experience, but you have a lot of opinion. I mean, you should see the number of experts that know nothing about violent crime. How will you rape someone over there? You do know that men rape women every day and they use guns, okay? They can't do it over there.

They have to go over here where the woman is. And they rape men too. And you know where they go, they go to them? You know, when they take something from someone, do you know, they don't trust you? So they don't stand over here across the room and go, listen, I don't want you to take my gun. I'm scared of you. I'd like you take everything out of your pockets and I trust you. I'm not going to touch you because I don't want you to grab my gun.

Right. That's not going to ever happen. And they're going to, not only are they going to put the gun on you, it's a form of power and control. They also know you're not going to do anything to that gun. They know for a fact you're not going to touch the gun. So TikTok got mad because I showed videos with guns up to people's heads. Lots of videos, lots of pictures. They got mad about that.

But they're not supposed to get mad about this because it's clearly a prop, right? Actually, they let us do the props, but a lot of people weren't even a lot of these prop guns on TikTok. Yeah. I mean, people just get stuff removed from TikTok and Instagram really so consistently that clearly doesn't go against the terms of service. but it's almost impossible to get like a human review on your content. Oh, yeah, my wife went crazy and started sitting all kinds of stuff to them because we, you know, it became a revenue source for us. We were like, oh, wow, we didn't know what was going to be like this.

And, you know, TikTok is like, it's a revenue source, but you know what happened? We got pushed to our YouTube account. My wife goes into the algorithms and the, you know, the analytics and starts studying and does some other stuff. And next thing you know, does a research, we go to a million subscribers in, two months, two-half months. YouTube has been good to you guys? 100% better.

But it's just crazy how... 100%. Listen, it's a great... TikTok and Instagram. The greatest thing that could have happened to us is TikTok push us over to this. And Instagram is doing great, too. But it would be nice to be able to do both, you know? Well, you know, TikTok is more for kids.

And, you know, I was cussing people out on there because I wasn't good at social media. And, you know, they were talking, I was talking. I would talk about their mother. And they would be like, I'm 12. And I was like, oh, oops, block again. So I'm getting better now about my discipline. You're not supposed to be yelling at people and calling them names on TikTok. And I was.

And I was getting in trouble for that too. Okay. They were like, they can cuss you out, but don't cuss them out. Wait, what? So you actually got TikTok to tell you that?

Or just that's the general. Which part? They can cuss you out, but you can't cuss them up. Yeah, because they weren't blocking them. They'll block me. They're like,

that comment goes against our rules. That video I just showed you with the guy putting the gun on my face. I think somebody put it on TikTok a couple months ago and I got like five, six million views. And I told them, my TikTok guy said, hey, we should throw that up on our TikTok. He goes, I wouldn't even bother because they're going to get the fucking video deleted

because of it's a gun. Sure enough, it was deleted the next thing. Yeah, no, no. And there was a toy gun that doesn't matter. So they let us keep our guns. The one thing I would say TikTok did allow that, but didn't like, didn't allow us to show real images of real crimes, right? Which I needed to do because I needed people to understand that I don't care about the social media part. Really, it was about education.

We make money. I don't need TikTok money. I don't need that money. Okay, what I do need to do is share up with people real stuff that can help them. So the purpose of me putting the videos up, well, so you understand this really happens. Like you just saw it with you. The guy put the gun to your head more than once.

Well, on TikTok and on YouTube, experts, you know, experts, they're saying that- You were to use that video to make a video on TikTok about, like, just proving this is a real situation. This is what it might look like. That was good ticking down. But not just that. Remember, I'm dealing with experts on Internet.

They're experts. They're experts. And they assure me. that I'm wrong. No one puts a gun that close to someone's head. Except that guy had stood across the room with the gun, I would have been very confused. I would have been a fucking movie.

You'd be like this. Guy over there with the gun. Are you with the guy who delivering my food? That's the one thing I notice now in movies. And I've been watching this show Money Heist. And it's like everyone's always pointing a gun at you. And then someone else is pointing a gun. All of a sudden there's five guns pointed out.

I'm like, this would not happen in real life. Where everybody's just having this permanent fucking standoff and having a whole conversation. Well, no, that would probably really happen because in order for you to shoot someone, several things have to happen. There has to be a need, an opportunity, right? A lot has to happen.

But it's like the guy who's got the gunpoint in someone's head is now allowing other people to pull out their guns and everyone's like, someone's going to shoot you at some point. No, no, most people don't shoot guns. Remember, they just point them. A lot of people who get shot. Yeah, but most people don't.

Most people that point is pointing It's for power and control. If you do anything about guns, you wouldn't even use a pistol. Right. Because it doesn't stop them. So the real reason the way of real reason you get a pistol is to control them psychologically. Right. And if you knew better, then you would use a shotgun or rifle.

Right. But pistols don't. They're not good at stopping people. So you can shoot people in the face. There's bullets go. That's why. That's why I put the videos up and the pictures up. It's just so people would have this understanding. Right.

In real life, people are not, are not, for getting shot, the dying from hypovalemic shock when you lost too much blood. So, and also complying and still getting shot. So I put a bunch of videos up and pictures up about that and then TikTok got mad about that. But I needed a bunch of truth out there because I'm having the same conversation with people every day. I'm an expert in firearms and I know for a fact that blah, blah, blah. Now you don't know nothing. You're theorizing.

You didn't go out of your boots on the ground. You're an expert of talking. Okay. You took some classes. You have certifications. You have no experience. I don't have, you have way more certifications than zero experience. compared to me. In fact, I can tell you to go get the experience, but you're not going to want to do that because you're scared. You're not going to leave your safety of your training environment to go out with your gun, your knife, your hand-to-hand, and you're not going to go protect people. Why? Because you're going to get injured. You're going to die and you know it. The chance of you're dying is highly likely. And that's why you're going to talk on internet. You're not going to physically go out in the real world and protect people. So the difference between my school and the other school is our school not only trained,

but goes out with the training to protect people in real life. So this is what I tell people. It's fine that you like your school, but understand the difference and why I'm going to teach you differently is because I'm responsible for outcome for 26 years.

The parents and the family members, they're going to come talk to me. More importantly, I work for the private sector, which means that if I'm not right, there's consequences. And clients are not going to pay me unless they want to pay me believing that I have some value.

You can't believe value without evidence. okay so you can't just have money from private clients just because right okay that's now how the private sector works I love the private sector I will not get paid one dollar if the value is not provable right okay and I have no problem with losing clients I have a turnover rate with humans because I get rid of them they're not performing properly right right but you have a choice you either have high high performance values right and performance metrics and a method of grading performance, or you can put your home, you can put your trust and value in people and forget about your clients and trust your team members more and, you know, care more about

your team members, you care about the people you're providing protection for. And that's something we can't do. Love is what's required, not guns. So you have to love people to protect them. The most important thing that matters in protection is that you love people because we will only as human beings be able to protect what we truly love. And so you have to care about people. And that's what I look for in team members are people that actually care about people.

Money is a byproduct and it's always going to be there. Because as long as you're creating positive conditions for people to exist, to have a good quality of life, you're going to always have value. And the private sector will always meet you where your value is. You can always make demands on how much you have to be paid from those who can pay. But you never worry more about money than you do the mission. The mission has to be about preserving people's lives. and the money has to always be secondary to that.

Right, for sure. What are your thoughts on crime in America being on the rise as a whole? And just sort of disturbing trends. Like, you know, we just keep seeing more and more of these sort of wild home invasions, even in nicer parts of L.A. When I think about it, when I started, I interviewed a rapper from Flint, Rio, the Young O. And he was talking about how, you know, drive-bys have just become a way bigger thing and how, I mean, that's the kind of thing that is,

it's hard to fucking even think of what the solution is when that kind of thing is going on where people are just shooting up each other's houses because it's such a cowardly act. No, it's, so remember that everything, I mean, there are some psychotics that just do things, right, that does happen.

But most of them have a reason or a perceived reason. So I only know this because I have boots on the ground. So I didn't know this, I learned this, right? So I happen to be in any situation is that I talked to both police and perpetrators. So I had a chance to understand both sides. And what I can tell you is what we are calling crime

is usually some form of demented justice. So your sister gets raped. Your kid gets killed. Your aunt gets mugged. And then someone came and told you was this guy over here. The gang shit, it's always that. With the gang shit, it's just always that.

It's always just infraction after infraction that leaves these people at war with each other, yeah. Well, actually, most of the gangs aren't actually at war with each other. So, for example, most of the people that are being harmed are not in gangs. So keep that in mind. If you go harm a gang member, what's going to happen to you?

But in somewhere like Chicago, it's like the number of gang members who are just killing other gang members. It's just absolutely absurd. Remember that that's, once again, if you kill a gang member, what's going to happen? I mean, shit to them, probably.

Not nothing. No, it's going to happen. They're going to kill your family. They're going to kill your people you care about. So you don't go kill games. That's what they're doing out there. These are people talking, right? These are talking points.

No, I'm saying I'm seeing videos of gangbangers killing other gangbangers left and right in Chicago. That's not the majority of people are injured or killed. Well, there's definitely a lot of people getting killed who aren't in the streets like that. No, no. What I'm saying is that's not the majority of what you're looking at. So what they do is they say, you know, you have marijuana in your pocket when you got shot. you're a drug dealer. Actually, you're the guy that's accused of raping this girl over there, and they shot you because that's his cousin, and he's a dope man. He's a gang member. Now,

he can kill you because you're a gang member. He killed you because you were the one they said raped his sister. Now, they're not going to worry about that story. They're going to go with gang member, kill the gang member. You understand? That's not the same thing as what you're thinking, which is let's go be gang members and go shoot the gang members. That's not, that's not. In LA, that is a huge percentage of the gang, gang on gang violence that we're seeing for sure. these are people who have been at war with each other for 10, 20 years. You know, their neighborhood can't, they can't see someone from this neighborhood without them having to shoot each other.

It's basically how, or not to mention they go on missions to other people's neighborhoods, too. You know, it's like that really is what it is. Well, those are what you hear, right? What you're not hearing is it's after, it's over a girl because it sounds weak. Well, a lot of it might be over. That's a girl. It's a girl. Territory.

Their girl likes your. Disrespect. Instagram, they make songs about each other, you know. Yeah, exactly. A lot of these are excuses that sound more plausible, right? And so what I would say to you is this, that don't listen to what is said, because normally what is said is a false, is false, all right? So it's not, it's false media, it's false in general.

And that's because nobody cares about the truth. The truth is usually so convoluted. And a lot of times it's so primal that it's no, it's boring, right? So a lot of things are misunderstandings. A lot of things are completely, for example, an example. One's last time you heard of a person shooting someone because they were protecting someone. Because they were protecting someone. Yes.

I don't know. Okay. That happens every day. There's heroes in every city. You don't have one story for me. Okay? Because they called them a criminal because they said it was a guy, it was a gang member killing a game member. But it wasn't.

It was a guy rescuing his neighbor from what he thought was a prowler. Who was the guy? The guy was actually a person who was walking down the street and thought this person was a gang member who was coming after him. It's all a misunderstanding. But they're not going to even check with that. They're not going to go ask any questions. They're going to say, game member killed the other game member. It's, you know, so what I'm saying is all that foolishness, go check, go talk to them.

And what you're going to see if you could talk to both sides, which I have done. That's how I found this out is that they're, it's, if it doesn't fit the narrative, it's something else, right? And so what they want to do is they want to fit the narrative. Okay, you had marijuana in your pocket. When something happened, you're a drug dealer. That marijuana was for girls. You just have to get your chicks. You don't even, that marijuana was not.

Or for ourselves. For yourself. It was your stuff. You smoke weed? It's too much. No. No. But they're like, you have too much weed.

That couldn't be yours. No, no. I smoke a lot of weed. Right. Exactly. Like, I promise you, this is mine. No, I, you know, we did a survey. And apparently if you have this much, you're not, that's not for you.

Right. What? What? Yeah, there's experts that say, only you can only smoke this much. You'd only have this much weed. What? It's bullshit, man. So just remember these are narratives.

They're trying to make you easy if you don't understand. Like, that's like saying, you know, they'll say the white cops are killing the black people. Really? So what are the other cops doing? Did you even ask? They're just sitting around. They're just doing nothing. You should check on that. You don't really buy that whole narrative.

You should check on that. So many cops are racist? What is racist? You know, so you got to look at things from a deeper perspective. the majority of people being shot and killed by police are not in the cities. But yet I can't even name last time I heard of a story of someone getting shot outside of a city. Because nobody cares when you get shot in Ashkosh, but gosh, Wisconsin.

They only care if you got shot in a city. Why is that? And I did ask people at CNN. And they said because that's where the city's television stations are. And I was like, oh, it makes sense. It's a logical. See how stupid that is? It kind of takes a lot to get people to pay attention to a murder.

Generally speaking. Where are the most police officers get killed in the United States? I don't know. Where would you guess? Where do the most police officers get killed? I don't know. According to the FBI.gov website, it is down south in country towns. Okay.

Now name one. Name the last story where an officer got ambushed and attacked and killed any southern country town. You can't name one. That's because they didn't tell us on our news. Right. So we don't have recency bias that's, we have recency bias thinking that because we heard of ex-o officer doing something or ex-officer having something done to them, it's a city problem. the majority of problems in America are not in cities.

Because the majority of people don't live any city. 85% of police work outside of a city. You think they're doing nothing? So 85% of people that are in law enforcement don't work in a city. They're doing nothing. Just 15% of the cops in the country are doing something. No, that's just 15% we're hearing about because they're in cities. So it's not appropriate or fair to say that police aren't doing anything when they don't work in a city.

Because it's not real. That's not true. We are seeing a lot more police being held. accountable for situations. Oh, absolutely. People who are, you know, arming, you know, innocent black people in general. We've kind of the George Floyd verdict seemed like a good thing.

The Amma, that wasn't cops, Ahmad-Arbary situation, you know, that looked like those dudes weren't going to be prosecuted or anything. And then all of a sudden the video comes out, goes crazy. I forget the woman's name who said she was trying to tase the dude. Instead, she shot him. She just got sentenced. You consider these good developments?

Well, anything that just brings more, you know, law enforcement and the enforcement of laws properly and professionally is appropriate. So anything that's that's, that's, you know, in line with prosecuting perpetrators that are doing something wrong is good. Yeah, I mean, it seems like you might have a little bit of sympathy for the defund the police argument just because their argument usually seems to be that there should be what, like mental health professionals. That doesn't do with police, though.

Social workers, et cetera, instead of police? Do you sympathize with that at all? There's two separate subjects. So when we lack appropriate process and perspective, we come up with wrong solutions. So the reality is, you know, you don't really need to think about force, violence, capture, caging, and killing people. That is a thought process.

We do need to get rid of that. And we need to have protective policing, which is different than prosecutorial policing and protective policing is what we need to be focusing on so that we can get a better, safer environment for police and for the people. And that's where we're thinking about providing, like I think police cars should be all bulletproof.

Why is that? Because we expect police to go to where bullets are flying, right? So we protect the police officers and we expect them to go there to protect people, right? But we need to both protect the protectors and the people at the same time. And that starts with education, right? And miseducation,

where we're at right now. So imagine we're trying to define people by color schemes. There's no way you can use color schemes to define people. I have cousins look like you that are African Americans. They call themselves blacks. But they look just like you. So how does that make sense?

I would love to meet them. Yeah. You have met some already and you didn't know it. So the reality is skin color is not an ethnic group. Right. Anywhere. So the reality is we think of it that way because we're taught to in the United States. So we need to first get of all these mis-educational things and move forward in, you know, the idea that we need to

protect people in general and police are people. We need to create a safety environment for them and for the public in exchange so that we can have a safer society for everyone. You cannot have a successful society without safety for everyone. So you can't put police at risk and say, let's go out there. We're not going to give you bulletproof helmets. We're not going to give you with a face shield, right? Because they have those. So why are we telling police officers to go in a situation where their face can be shot? And they are being shot.

And we don't give them the things that we need to be safe, like a firefighter. The firefighter has a whole helmet and a breathing system to make them safe. So police should have the same thing. And then we need to also reward them for the positives. We need to give them bonuses for creating the positive outcomes, for not crashing cars, for not, you know, injuring people. There should be bonuses for what you want police to do. and not defunding them, but actually funding bonuses for the positive professional behaviors.

You're asking a lot of them. A lot of them are dealing with people with mental issues. So if you're dealing with people with mental issues every day and you're talking to them every day, it's going to have a negative effect on you. They need to have less hours on the job. Police officers have more money for more positive outcomes and less hours of exposure to negative environments. And so that's how we create a better interaction between police or protective policing

and the people is that by, by creating, creating a safer environment that's more positive for both the police and the people, right? But we can't have a negative environment of police as they keep going to negative situations with people on their worst day and people are mentally ill and then have the officers interact with them consistently long term, being tired and expect that not to adversely affect their lives and lives of others, right? So really we have to look at mental health for everyone, both the public and the police, and then make a good plan that helps police and the people get along. And that's what our training system does specifically.

It is designed to help police have the skills to not injure and kill people while simultaneously helping them be safer. And the same thing for the public and how to get along with the police. So you don't have escalatory conditions, even by accident, with police. At the end of the day, this is what we've used to create positive interactions with law enforcement in any jurisdiction, even other cities and states and countries. Nice. So we can't, the point is, and that's part of our social media, is to show people there are solutions. You don't have to be a victim. We don't have to let ourselves be victimized.

We don't have to, we're not helpless. You know, there is an educational format to create peace peacefully. I like it. Anything you got planned coming up? I could see you taking your talents far beyond just YouTube and TikTok, right? Like, do you have any plans for bigger things? Yeah, our goal is to set up these schools, L.A., Miami, New York, Chicago. These schools are going to be the key to change in evolution.

Our goal is to take them overseas to other countries. So you can create a safer environment using the police and the people working together in a protective network. But it starts with education. We can't do anything without an educational change. We have to stop believing that violence is a solution. Violence is the enemy of humanity, literally. So we have to believe that we have to create conditions for a lack of violence to occur. And that means, you know, when we have bulletproof vehicles, we can say,

we're going to be in the community and now how can a gang member do a shootout right here with police vehicles here? They can't. Now you can create safety in the community but we'd have to have bulletproof cars for the police to be in the community already we can't just say just go there with a car that the officer could be shot in.

So that's what I'm saying like imagine it's a... Is that happening a lot or like a ton of cops being shot in their own cars? If they were where the shooting was taking place, absolutely. So that's not what's happening. What happens is you know to think about your safety and then you wait for a call to go and then you go over there.

But yes, way too many officers are being shot in cars. So one officer being shot in cars too many. So do you ever hear about firefighters being burned in a truck? No, because their trucks are designed not to be burned. I mean, they're literally using paints on the vehicles, and the vehicles are designed for fire safety for the firefighters. So we need to do the same thing for police. Well, all I know is that young Dolph got shot a hundred times and he was in a bulletproof car.

No, he survives. Oh, what's that? He survived. he got shot 100 times and his whip was bulletproof at that time. Oh, oh yeah. And he survived. Yes, yes, good points. Obviously, rest in peace, young dog, he was killed just a couple months ago, but he

did survive being shot a hundred times in his car at one point. See, that's a good point. I didn't know that. But that's an example of what happens when you use technology to create safety. It didn't say he shot the guys and killed him. It meant he didn't get killed. And that's, you know, obviously, you know, the ideal outcome.

Yeah. Right. So we need to continue that for, you know, for people. This should be safety for everyone. schools should be safer by creating conditions where you can't shoot in the school and you can't shoot the school and you can't get in the school with a gun. So, you know, we can create safety safely or we can just keep waiting for things to happen. And my point is be proactive but preventive and be positive. You don't have to be oppressive. You don't have to be inappropriate or disrespectful to people. 100%.

Dale Brown, appreciate you coming through, man. Thank you. Much respect. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. For real. No jumper.

Coolest podcast in the world. Check us out on YouTube, TikTok, Patreon, only fans, all that shit. Like, comment, subscribe, nojumber.com, if you want to support. Appreciate you, man. Thank you. Thank you. This is a great podcast. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for your time. Appreciate you.