No Jumper - The Evidence Interview

Episode Date: August 30, 2019

LA rapper Evidence, from Dilated People, shared about being in a group vs being a solo artist, working and being friends with Alchemist, working with Kanye, his upcoming project, his passion for baseball and making beats; plus, the criteria of the Top Rappers lists frenzy. 1:58 Killin it at Baseball 3:42 Venice lifestyle 7:26 Early hip hop memories 10:12 Finding love for hip hop and being friends with the greats 11:38 Jiu-jitsu 13:40 Dilated People 16:58 Working with Kanye 17:11 "Worst Come To Worst" Dilated People's biggest song 17:57 Hit records formula 19:28 Everlast (House of Pain) 20:08 Pressure form the label to work with Kanye 21:25 Met Alchemist in 8th grade 23:17 Influences and going solo 25:46 Slow vs fast rap, Talib Kweli vs Eminem 28:39 What does Evidence think about mumble rap and Soundcloud rap? 29:36 Evidence asks Adam "Do you really fuck with new shit?" 30:45 Old school vs new school? 31:44 "Beats are like clothes", judging rappers by the way they look 33:56 Weed 36:19 Hip hop and drugs 38:23 Battle rap 40:16 Signing new talent 41:37 Rappers leaving managers behind when they blow up 43:56 "Managers and artists should never have a contract"?? 46:34 Top rappers lists criteria 51:03 Rappers generational gap? 52:46 Twitter vs Instagram 55:40 New Dilated People album? 57:20 Making more beats and started with the best mentors 58:49 Title of the new project? 1:00:58 Samples in hip hop ----- FOLLOW OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST! https://spoti.fi/2vi9lsD CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz Follow us on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nojumper and iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 and follow us on Social Media: http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm follow Adam22 as well: http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 and follow adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumbert, coolest podcast in the world. And today I'm in here with the one and only evidence. How are you feeling, man? Doing great. You? Excellent, man. I'm sorry I made you waddle around a little while because we had some complications with the previous interviews. But very, very excited to have you in here. I got to know Laura. You really did get to know my publicist probably better than I know her. She asked me every question.

Literally, at one point I said, I'm just going to stop talking to you. So you're just sick of talking about yourself at this point because of the publicist report that you were going through before? We stood in front of a gold wall and talked about France. Fire. That's what Melrose is all about is just standing in front of different walls and making people take photos of you. And we saw people doing Instagram photos just for the gram. A lot of that around here.

Good shit. A lot of walls that really are not there for the structural integrity of the wall are really just there to be photographed in front of, which is kind of the world we live in now. I was going to say, in Melrose's defense, that's nothing new. It's just Instagram. Yeah. Melrose always had all these alleys back here were always shit.

growing up right here give me some early memory memories of melrose i know you're a venice kid but you probably were coming out here right hip hop shop on um did you hear about that ever no i heard you i heard you talk about it on to live's interview i think yeah yeah so yeah it was just a spot this dude hex owned it and um they sold fat caps for graffiti they sold fat laces they sold graffiti mag shirts con art was the popping shit at that time i don't know if you know that label yeah yeah and uh think a lot of graffiti crews would meet up there because the location is central to the east side to the west side it's kind of like a middle ground for everybody so you would just run into the ill ill cats and then that's where i met rocko

and how we formed dilated was rapping in there so you primarily were you interested in graffiti before rapping because graffiti is like very accessible you don't need anything when you're a young and you get interested in writing it's like you you don't need any connects whereas in rap there's a whole lot of equipment you don't need and shit yeah i was i was good at baseball that was my thing I was a pitcher. Okay. And I had the ill curveball. Nobody could fuck with it.

And it got so addictive, I would just throw that over and over and just strike everybody. As soon as I throw straight, they killed it. You know what I mean? So it was like this addiction. But I think a lot of kids know, like, you're not supposed to throw curves when your body's still developing because it's like snapping their arm and it's fucking with your elbow. Really? No, that makes sense. So like most kids who are pitchers, they encourage them to just throw changeups or fastballs.

That's it. Okay. And I just got addicted to this. My coach told me if you do it right, you'll be all right. You know what I mean? Was he stupid? Yes. And so in like, you know, fifth grade, sixth grade, eighth grade, after every game, I'm sitting with my arm, I'm trying to write in school the next day.

I'm shaking. You know what I mean? It was bad. Wow. But it was an addiction. I couldn't not throw it, you know? And so eventually I got to high school and the distance between the mound went to major league distance. So the from the pitcher to the catcher was 60 feet now instead of 45.

Right. The base pass were 90 instead of six. And I started throwing that curve and it was just hanging too long and I wasn't big enough yet and fools just started killing that shit and they were hitting me So I started like losing just losing my love for baseball because I stopped being good at it right or I was in a transitional period maybe if I had written it out But um so I found graffiti right there you know what I mean I was a kid you were one of those kids who was like super obsessed with the sport and just couldn't imagine it doing anything else of your life? No, I mean I would do I had regular kid activities I wasn't And at that time, you can do mad shit when you're young, you can juggle, whatever. You know what I mean? I was still into girls.

I was still into whatever I was into. But baseball was just something I knew that I was good at. It was game time. I was ready to go. You know what I mean? And when I stopped doing good, I found graffiti, took acid and went to Venice Beach. You know what I mean? Like my whole shit changed because I just opened up another side of my mind.

I guess previous to that, I was never like a creative per se. Because you decide to do the asset at that moment because you sort of knew that you were at the transitionary moment in your life? I grew up in Venice Beach, so I think, I mean, doses, doses. People used to offer those to us when we were skating when we were young. Right. He just knew now we're not doing acid. You know what I mean?

But as you get older, when you see it enough, friends are doing it. Do that. You know what I mean? And yeah, I think it was normal to be in Venice and doing it. I wouldn't, I think times are different if my son told me at a, you know, he's three. But God forbid, at 11 or 12, he told me he's doing acid, I'm going to freak out. You know what I mean? But for me at the time, it felt.

like what you're supposed to do you think about that a lot how your your kid if he lived the life that you lived as a young man that you'd be extremely upset and the unsurmountable challenge that you have in keeping a kid away from bad elements when they're young no I'm not tripping on that yet no not yet well three yeah I've got a minute before I got three is like I got three old nephew it's all Pokemon and dinosaurs that's what I'm saying I got him dragon ball z early you know yeah about it. Dragon Ball Z even be a little advanced for my nephews. Yeah, but man, Venice must have been a wild-ass place to grow up. Sorry.

Yeah. I say that just as somebody who, you know, spent a lot of time just going to the beach or hitting up the skate park or just sort of riding around and stuff. Are you from L.A.? No, I'm from like right outside Boston. Oh, shit. But I've been out here for like 10 years. I was in Long Beach for the first three, four years.

So it's, you know, kind of, it's like an interesting place to get a hang of later on, you know, in your life. like Venice is just it's a beach town but it's got like a way seedier element than most beach towns and it's changed a lot a lot of people hear me talking about Venice and they think of a rich place you know but tech startups and shit yeah it's got and it's really got like you're in a mansion or you're homeless you know what I mean it's that that middle thing is like a it's like a target on your house you know what I mean it's it's a trip so so growing up there was no gentrification yet not yet I think it was like the last ghetto at the beach, true ghetto at the beach, you know.

And it bred a certain kind of person. All the skaters I knew were crazy. You know, they were fighting, you know, surfers the same thing. That's what when I think of Venice, I think of wild ass skaters. Like most skaters are pretty chill in most communities. I feel like Venice is definitely a place where you could get beat up at the skate park. 100%. And then the gang element was mixed right in the middle of it.

Mexican gangs and black gangs and black on brown. crime, you know, I mean, as far as like gang rivalries and stuff like that. So like you could easily get, I could be walking down the street and get caught up in it just by the way I look. You know what I mean? Or something like that. It was a place you definitely knew had to know how to navigate through. And it just made you keep your guard up and it made you a certain kind of person different than a lot of other places in L.A. Right.

And they have their stories as well, you know. It's interesting because it seems like, you know, there's like a certain type of white dude that can vibe or, fit in as a rapper in the rap game and it's like with you even way back when I first started to know about dilated it was like you rarely heard that conversation even much about like yeah you know it's like white guy in a group and shit it was it was just almost like glossed over where i was like with m&m that was like the whole conversation for a while yeah um what is this what is my um I'm racially ambiguous you kind of are in France I'm French and Italian in Italy so yeah it's I blend in well.

Right. Yeah. What was your early memories of hip hop and that endeared you to it even before you got super close to the culture? The early memories I have are Venice Beach. I mean, Santa Monica Pier first, actually. People break dancing, just going down there to ride bumper cars and then seeing a circle happening, people dancing, not knowing what that was. Finding out the song that they were playing, making my mom buy me that song, playing that shit over and over and over. Any songs stand out that you're like...

Jam on it, Jam on it, Nucleus. That was the one that I just couldn't get over. But we're talking early. What year are we talking? I'm probably like five years old. You know what I mean? So like mid-80s, you know what I mean? Early 80s. For me, it was like Snoop was like the first thing I saw that.

I really gravitated. Yeah, yeah. By the time Snoop happened, I was knowing what rap was how it was getting made around people who were coming up. Yeah. And so in terms of like hot spots that you were sort of, did you just sort of figure out at some point?

like oh melrose is like one of the places where there's actually like some culture at and i can be around i think it was just like around 15 a lot of my homie is like a year older start getting a car you know you want to go somewhere you just when everything starts changing all of a sudden you can go places go places or sneak out and go places so i would melrose was just the thing graffiti was popping on melrose so and there was probably a lot of people you would bump into that you knew through passing or whatever pre-internet shit i heard it was like wall-to-wall people out here too that it was like way more people on the street than you could ever imagine at that time. Yeah, the memories of it were, it was a little more hood.

It was a little, it was a little, it's still like, you know, you could get caught up out here, but it's, it's tourists mostly, you know, I think Fairfax was popping, that was bleeding into the streets. Yeah, there's some opportunity to sick people come through and just will sort of live off of Melrose like, one of my favorite things ever was I saw and it's fucked up, but it was funny as fuck. I seen these three kids walk by with Supreme Bags, there's three little dorky-ass, white kids and then they walked by again like 10 minutes later coming from the other direction and

they're like you know some guy walked up to us and asked us to see our bags and he ran off with all of them i'm like we just got jacked on fairfax not too long ago who did me and a couple homies man we had our i'll leave their names out but yeah we we parked we saw some homies we knew on on the street got right out i guess for some reason we didn't lock the car laptop got stolen all this shit there's a camera showing the guy doing it but we don't know he's gone right He got that. He got that. She's just crazy. So you came here like to get into the graffiti thing sort of,

and then you just ended up sort of gravitating more towards the music side of things? What was it? Were you not terribly talented as a graffiti artist? I was pretty good. I was pretty good. There were some guys who were incredible. I was all right. I think when you're that age, things are hobbies more.

You know, there's like you're more, it's easier to jump in and jump out of something. Yeah, you haven't started thinking about making a living or anything yet. And your identity's not fully formed. so you're just trying things out to see where you go so like baseball was one graffiti was another skateboarding was another but um when rapping happened that was it there was nothing i had i hadn't felt the feeling of that that was the one yeah yeah you just knew that that had to be it yeah and i came up around a lot of talented people who were like killing shit so some people it seems like a a million miles away the idea of actually making success is like way over there but when you see your people

who are doing it from the beginning and you see the potential of what it could be and that's you're just your introduction to it so this is your normal yeah doing a big ass show for thousands of people there's that's what you're supposed to be doing you know and so the bar got set real high like early i just surrounded myself around greats even when i was just just trying to figure this shit out i always fronted somehow or always figured out a way to get in with those people and and you know feel that energy and and uh try to apply it as much as possible so yeah like scaring yourself and hanging out with people who are better than you at shit as you get older becomes more difficult because you're more stuck in your ways your egos formed yeah when you're that young you just like it's like the it's just the most attractive shit did you say you were a jiu jih Tzu guy yeah I've been doing it yeah yeah that I remember having that feeling to a real extreme like when I first started trying to do jiu jiu jitsu like taking classes and stuff and I didn't know what it was and then I sort of realized like oh you only primarily do things that you're real good at in your day-to-day life.

And now here you are, and you're a white belt, and you're struggling in these classes. And I just realized that that, and a lot of that weight was sort of alleviated when I had that realization. It was like, oh, this is what it is to put yourself into an environment where you don't know anything and we're a total beginner. And it's a very unique space to put your brain into. For sure, man. It's the most humbling shit. And then imagine being a blue belt and then you feel like you've got somewhere and then a white belt taps you out. You know what I mean?

It gets more and more crazy as you start progressing into it. So, yeah, but that's the most humble shit to walk into a jih Tjitsu spot and just be like, yo, what the fuck? Because these dudes are like, you're like a little fucking baby to them. Like when I play with my son and I move around and do that, that's how like I am to them. So the humility of that, just knowing like how much up some people are on you in the street. And you wouldn't even know it because they're just like skinny built. You know what I mean?

And they walk around polite. You could start something with the wrong person. Completely fucked. Definitely. That shit is crazy. I remember talking to my first instructor and he told me he had been doing security in Huntington Beach for like 10, 15 years. And I'm like, damn, you had to beat the fuck out of anybody any times?

He's like, honestly, I never threw a punch. He's just like kind of grab my hand and tugged it behind my back a little bit. And I was like, oh! And he's like, yeah, he's like, you know, I'll just walk him out real aggressive. I'm light on it now, though, man. Really? Yeah, I've been. It's been, well, it's just hard to keep up the lifestyle, injuries, schedule.

I got my son. I've had a crazy couple years right now, like three, four years where it's been hard to focus on that alone. So, yeah, just finding time for jihisita right now is taking the back seat, but. Definitely. Yeah, sure. So I got familiar with dilated, I guess, like maybe 2003, 2004 when I was like fresh out of college and shit. When did the group actually first form, though? out singles in 98 and 99 for real yeah just on 12 inch fat beats right and then um we got our deal in

2000 on capital and then we did four albums right and so in 2004 was our third album that was the one we were doing we had a single conier yeah and that's one all of a sudden because you know i was i was kind of of ringing i wasn't like really like too up on the underground shit i was pretty much like g-unit dip set yeah it's like all all i knew at that time or at least all i was really like focused on but so okay like you guys get what was your career like prior to getting signed you just like the local like la fucking hip hop crew that was just sort of doing it yeah rock and my partner he knew uh he knew dj lethal from house of pain they went to high school together okay so at first we had a demo we made a demo and um with qd3 who's quincy jones son who's my next door neighbor right

it's crazy and i just heard that story on that's all that's yeah that's how i got into rap is through him And through that, we met lethal. We got a deal. Album got shelved. And then resurfaced through independence back when I said. Prior to that, I wouldn't say we were like going around killing shows and like we had this huge buzz when we first started. That happened when we dropped our independent 12 inches. Prior to that, we were kind of like just figuring it out.

Where we stood in the industry was uncertain at that point. But we knew we were assigned to a platinum group, House of Payne. and Alchemists and Scott were signed to Cypress Hill. You know what I mean? It was like, we're in the right place to be. It just wasn't our time there. But we had like Red Man on our album and exhibit. It was an all right album.

I listened to it and cringe, but the internet seems to like it. Why are you listening to Do it and cringe? Because I just sounded, I didn't know what I was doing yet. There was something in me that people saw, for sure, that made me get to that point. But at that point, I was just emulating. I wasn't.

I had no identity and I was fair weather, meaning whatever I was liking is what I sounded like. So I didn't really come into my own shit to a way later and still evolving today. But that time, it was like, you know, we were kind of trying to go to industry route, really. Like get a demo, get a deal, come out and let the world discover us through another group that already had success, be like something they show you, you know. And I'm glad it didn't work out because we weren't ready. But when we came back out in 2000, we were more ready. And even to that music, I look back and it's hard for me sometimes.

But I love the confidence in that music. Like even when I said a line that didn't age well, I loved how much at the time I thought that line was the shit. You know what I mean? And so like that young confidence and determination bleated through into success. Like we as dilated, we did good. We weren't like pop, but we had. we sold enough records to keep getting the next deal and recouping and et cetera. So it was like we were definitely onto something.

And then, yeah, the rest is to be told as far as going solo and what happened after that. But that Kanye time right there was like first time we were ever on 106 in Park or like doing a funkmaster flex thing or things like that that we had never reached that level of the industry before. That was the song that like put us to that. But in hindsight, that song did more for him than it did for us. You know what I mean? It's still not our biggest record. The single on the album before Worst Come to Worse, it's still our biggest record.

That was double the first song I ever heard. Yeah. Isn't that weird how one hook like that could just become... I mean, the whole song is great and everything, but the hook just stands out to me to a ridiculous level that it's just almost like a career-defining sample for the hook there? Yeah, that shit was crazy. It's not even really a hook. It's funny, just we're scratching a mob deep line over and over, you know?

And that was like the power of like doing a hook. it out of format like that. Our label didn't want to make that a single. It was two and a half minutes and there was no definitive hook but the thing kept coming back over and over so we're telling them this is catchy and eventually it worked but the hip-hop climate at that time was different. What a hit was was undefined. Like there were no two real hits that sounded the same. There were rap hits but they were all unique and happened. I wouldn't say, uh, well, they weren't an accident, but there wasn't a real like pattern of format to go to to make a hit record right now a hit record is much more defined as you can hear it when the beat drops sometimes before even any vocals whatever

you know this is pretty much especially like modern pop music when you hear it just sounds so crazy and rap is pop so there's like it's been it's been stepped on you know what i mean and i don't mean that in the bad way because i'm a music producer so i love i love to understand you know what i mean but um it's definitely much more of a you could find out what a hit is and do something something similar and have a better chance. Whereas then I think people had bars and then they tried to figure out something catchy to do in between those bars. You know what I mean?

And then if it worked and you won and if it didn't, I gotta think back to like what the first record that sound like maybe Nelly like country grammar was maybe like the first record I heard like, shocking. Like this is a hit. You know what I mean? Whether I liked it or not, like this is a definitive hit, you know? And like sounded like one. As before, I mean, we could, you know, hits were weird.

Mobb Deep had hits. You know what I mean? Making music that they just make, you know? And yeah, so the climate of the industry was a little different for us at that time. I don't know where I took a left, but. You spend a lot of time with Everlast? I do. Not lately, but I mean, I'm talking back early on when you're getting signed and shit,

because that must have been a wild ride watching that whole thing happened. Yeah, we didn't show with him that much. He was in his, in his, in his. crime living his moment right there. Right around that time that you guys were coming out, huh? Yeah. Yeah, we were assigned to his DJ, lethal, so who we went on to do Limp Bizkit after.

Right, yeah. But yeah, we were more like, we were around him. I did the song with them back in the day, but it was still like, I was still like in awe of people who were stars, you know what I mean? Yeah, so. Definitely. Okay, but we were talking about that time period

of just like when you guys were coming out. Yeah, that was, I mean, yeah, those songs, like that one in particular, didn't sound like a super obvious attempt at a hit or anything, but did your mentality start to get a little bit closer to that just because of the pressures from the label? Did you start to sort of change up like the way that you were? Yeah, that's why we made the Kanye record.

Oh, yeah, but they sort of forced that upon you and told you to get in the studio with him. Definitely. But that was someone who was still basically just known as a producer. Yeah, that's the thing. He was just a dope beatmaker. He'd done JZ tracks. He did.

He did Beanie. single tracks he did a lot of like things that I liked that I felt were like like minded to what alchemist was doing or other people were doing around me so when they said you know we want you to go back and make a hit or make your album is not turned in there's no single here and we we chose him in the attempt of just making something that was that's what we felt but they had been around him so they knew his mind had already shifted to I'm gonna be a big big fucking artist right just I hadn't got the memo yet but

people at the label knew that shit and that's why they put us in the room with him and and to their defense they were they were very right you know he was like a something i hadn't seen before really yeah brought us a the table he just had a a real possessed energy how'd you mean alchemist so how early was that alchemist was probably seventh or eighth grade wow he was in a graffiti crew i knew that kind of hung out at a certain place on the weekends maybe like a mall or something like that so i would see him in passing and then um going out to little clubs back then i was trying to rap. I think he saw me grab a mic one night, something, and we hooked up

you know, get your number, shit. Yeah. I think I could still remember his phone number. But yeah, no, him and Scott Conn and those dudes became some of my best friends. Right. Yeah. That's unbelievable. He wasn't alchemist yet. He was still Mudfoot. Wow. How was his name?

And he was an ill rapper. You know, people need to know. I was like, kind of the best in my circle. He was, he had something that was really unique in his rap style. But I remember when he had like tracks out like not that long ago, right? No, he still raps. Yeah, he still doesn't put shit up. He was the illest then is what I mean. Oh really? I'm not dissing him now. Okay, but I haven't heard of rap in a while. We have a group together stepbrothers. He amazes me

every time he touches the mic. But back then there was something that was like, it was kind of like he was really, really onto something. And I think after their deal went sour, something happened where he kind of just gave that up and just focused on making the beats. But it's important to know that he could have been like somebody we talk about. It's crazy. Right. And that's why it's ill when you work with him because it's one thing if you work with like a rock producer

and he's telling the band to do mad shit. And they're like, show me what you want. Then show me what the fuck you're talking about. And he grabs the guitar and it's like, even if he doesn't play it as good. He's like, I'm talking about this. Then they're going to go back in and respect him more when he makes his next critique.

But Al, you've got to keep that in mind. It's like he could really rap. So if he's telling you something while he's producing, it's not coming from a place of it. ignorance. It's like I could probably get on the mic and do that, you know, the right way and show you. Right. Yeah, just another level of respect for him. How do you feel like your style has developed and what like the current evolution of your style is? Because I feel like when we do hear your flow, it feels like you've kind of been

focused around like a sort of like when you talk about how you used to be like influenced by a lot of other people and stuff, wherever you were listening to it was sort of rub off on you. We get the feeling when you listen to your raps now or even to an extent back then. that it's like almost you're like rapping inside of your own world like you don't don't sound terribly influenced by almost anything else that we really hear in the mainstream for the for sure but even in the the underground the current rap climate like where how do you feel like your style has changed and what are the the things that affect that i think i think the main thing is is um was just stop trying to be somebody i'm not that was the first thing and that was like a big step

for me. I said it on that other interview if you saw it or not, but you know, my mom passed away and I tried to make a song for her and put it on the dilated record and it just felt weird. And so that told me at that point I'm not connected enough as an artist to people. I can't even truly say something that I need to say and have my outlet without it coming off as a sore thumb. And so I was like, I need to do solo records for a minute. So when I started doing that, it was a big step out. In my group, Raka has always been known as the spitter and I've been known as whatever else I've been known for. I think the power of me has always been in my words more than the,

than the, all the way in the delivery. Like, I've had moments where I've really cut through sharp, but then there's other times where I'm like, I'm going to sacrifice these syllables right now to really get the point across. And I might even take words out and leave something, so I really can't enforce, like, what I need to say right now. And I think that's, I stopped caring so much about what others thought about me and started getting rewarded for that in at shows,

more people showing up, more people seeing, seeming to be like having a gravitation towards what I'm putting out now versus the other stuff where I was trying to show people that I was trying to be a good rapper. And, you know, I'm signing a Rhymesayers, which is atmosphere and brother Ali, Aesop Rock, and a lot of people who are super sick and but also known for being super sick live. So going out touring with them for a lot of years, definitely like opened me up and made me connect in a different way. And, you know, I mean, when I tried, we used to really want a girl and I would go at her crazy, she would never fuck with me.

And then the second I stopped Karen, she started to want to go out of me for some reason. Well, that's like kind of a good metaphor for how you rap or whatever, is that you sort of the appeal is in that you're not going as crazy on a song as you could. It was interesting here to Lib talk about how he kind of picked that up from you because, I mean, he is sort of a quintessential, like over-wrapper. Like a lot of people who say that about Eminem, people would say that about him, that it's like, there's certain people who are trying to get such a complex idea across that, or I guess with Emm, it's the actual words that he's bringing together with Talib, it's like there's actual, there's something he's trying to say that a lot of times he's not going to be able to necessarily get out in a simple way, right? Your mom, your mother never, she was always like, I'm going to say this one time and I'm going to say it real fucking slow. So you remember it, right? She never was like, go take out the trash real fast for me. You know, I mean, it wasn't, you know, to say something slow. and not be able to hide behind anything

and just be dog nuts naked when you're rapping is like a skill in itself. You gotta understand it's like, you're not hiding behind tricks. There's real, there's no time for filler. It's like a setup and a punch. So if it's not that shit, you're gonna know that way obvious, you know?

And if it is, it's gonna connect. So that style of rhyming to me is way appealing. I could technically rhyme faster if I needed to, but I feel like that's what's putting me from A to B where I need to be right now. But that's what's interesting. you're like a hip-hop classicist for the most part but then when you look at um a lot of like the usual opinions of sort of people who are like hip-hop classics driven type people is that they sort

of look down like southern rap because it's slow and simple and they're like really praise you know you constantly still see people discuss hip-hop in that super super simplistic way of like oh he's a he's lyrical he's technical and he sucks because he's simple and that's just kind of a there's a there's skill set to all of it, man. Like, letting understanding the rhythm of the beat and becoming an instrument is the reason people are having success right now. You know, melody is everything. Simplicity is everything. So I don't knock somebody because they're not as lyrical. I love songs. You know what I'm saying? I think there's a time to be lyrical. I think that's on sway. I think that's on Funkmaster Flex. That's when somebody calls you out in a battle. That's for that time in your show

where the DJ just drops a beat and you go crazy for a minute. There's a lot of them. But if you're carrying over, like, me trying to show you how good I am in the process of making songs, you're in the wrong room. You know, there's a time for that. And some people, the great ones, do it coincidentally. Those are the ones that are just ill. Big pun, certain people I could talk about, like, where they were really going the

fuck in, but still making a great, like, relatable line and something you could fuck with is a real crazy skill. set. And a lot of new motherfuckers got that. And it's no secret that that's why they're having success. Is there anything defeating about mumbo rap or SoundCloud rap? Anything that just sort of sticks out to you as like non-hip hop? No, it's evolution right now. It's what it is. If anything, what I'm doing is alternative now. You know, which is a trip. But it makes sense because industry is over here. There was a time the industry was signing this type of rap. It's not now. They figured out that those hits were too far and few in between.

We know how to make those now and there's artists who do it well. That's where it's at right now. That's what's popping. If I play some young kid, my boom, bat beat is going to sound like an era. You know what I mean? And so I respect what people are doing. The truth is I'm not all the way tuned into it. I listen to the radio a little bit.

I don't go out that much. When I do, I try to figure out what's popping. But for the most part, it really has to like hit. me from a angle to jump into something new. Yeah. Do you fuck with new shit? Like, I know, I know this is your world and you cover it, but like when you get in

your car on the way home, that's what goes in there? I mean, that's an interesting question because I feel like the podcast sort of like got where it was because of just the fact that I had so much like sheer excitement about a lot of like new young artists. But then when I think about, I listen to a lot of like, you know, young thugs, probably my favorite rapper. I'm interested in people who are doing just different things, sonically, different things flow wise different types of beats different types ideas to me young thugs like the most

unpredictable rapper i'd probably ever listen to which is why i can still like be excited for his shit after 10 years which is tough to stay interested in somebody for so long but i definitely you know i'm i'm just interested you know i look at somebody like tj x6 who i would assume you probably ain't heard yet but like the most bizarre aggressive flow i ever heard and then like the subject matter of talking about a lot of stuff like scamming shit that I haven't really heard discussed in that way where he's just being ridiculously detailed with like his criminal tales, you know. I guess I'm just like excited for stylistic innovation is kind of the thing that sort of drives me. Like I feel like a lot of people get off on just listening to the same rap that they listen to in high school over and over and over.

And that doesn't really do it to me. To me, listening to the same song over and over is almost like reading the same book over and over. I was on that for a long time. I listened to my classics. At some point, I don't know when they started to become repetitious to me. At some point, and I stopped doing that. But now there's a lot of shit out that's maybe not out to everybody, but is being made today that is innovative fire and not fit in the mold as well.

And like-minded to what I grew up on and not in a throwback way either, just taste-wise. You know, it's like you were showing me that kid. earlier who was rapping and the beat came on and before he started rapping I already made an opinion about him just on the beat he chose so to me it's like the and he killed it by the way i think you're talking about h from the UK the white kid yeah and he did and he killed it and but the i think beats are like like clothes you know like the outfit i choose to wear you you might not be able to deny the stitching is fire or whatever but this i'm not wearing that you know what i mean this is

i'm wearing this and because i wear this this is how i get judged yeah and and And so there's been days where I've gone to a funeral or a wedding and I wear a suit that day. And then I drive home and I stop at the coffee shop on the way. And the way I get treated is completely different than the way I get treated when I'm wearing this. Really? Yeah, of course. So we're like humans. We're judgmental and we look and we hear things and that's how we form our opinion.

So to me, the beats are like your outfit. You know what I mean? And I like wearing that, but they're wearing that over there. and I can't deny that that's not fire, but it's just not, I don't shop there. Right. And so like that kid right there on that shit, it's just not, it's not,

the beat wasn't speaking my language. I gave it a moment because I'm in here with you. I'm listening to it in this environment. Yeah. And so it was dope. You know what I mean? But if I was in my room by myself, I don't know.

You know what I mean? But especially like with UK hip hop, that's part of what I find really exciting about it is the fact that I really just don't have a frame of reference for most of it. Like it's just so much rap shit. If you've been around the industry for a while and stuff you start to be able to notice the patterns you start to see what people are doing it just feels very like easy sometimes it feels like everybody's just saying the same shit and then the ukishit

is kind of like they're using different slang they got weird as beats that don't just automatically make sense to my ear there's all kinds of weird flows that have developed based on reference points that i don't have yeah i like them because the the accent the way they speak english they put accents on different parts of the words so it allows different words to rhyme that would have never rhymed in an american English which is a trip right you know what I mean so yeah I can fuck with that yeah I like it too because uh English people are just funny as fuck super sarcastic super weird they love slang you spend a lot of time out there mm over the years yeah yeah me too I was just listening to Lib talk about you guys staying in the hostel that was a pretty great mental image

so far I didn't want to tell them it wasn't a hostel it was like a pre-air Airbnb it was like you know it was like a but it looked like once so that's all Awesome. You've been smoking weed your whole life. I've been smoking weed since like around when I've hurt my arm. Okay. 12, 13. Yeah, because like for the record, people, and you should go listen to that. It's a little podcast that you did.

It was a good one. But it's kind of interesting because he's like, basically he was so surprised that you guys cared enough about smoking weed that you would apparently stay in a different type of spot than where he was staying at. And to me it was like, but I, you know, I'm picturing the mental image and I'm picturing you and Alchemists on tour together. And I'm picturing you guys just wanted to be able to vibe. I mean, if you can't, like, people don't realize that the levels of friction that you put between a weed smoker and them actually smoke a weed has a huge amount to do with the comfortableness of the situation.

Motherfuck rappers do not like being in. A lot of normal people think it's normal. They'll be like, oh, yeah, this is a recording studio, but you got to go outside of smoke. That is not going to work. I was telling you earlier, I think I should quit weed just to become more of an asshole. You know what I mean? I'm saying. That's definitely what happens when I quit.

Yeah, man, I need to get upset to write a good rhyme and I haven't been upset for a minute. No, definitely fucking something. Yeah, you know, and I wonder that too. I was reading an interview with somebody in there like, yeah, you know, I spent a couple years in a cloud smoking weed and then one day I just decided that I wanted to get my life together. And I'm like, damn, do I not have my life together because I'm getting faded? I think I'm riding out, man.

I think I'm riding out with the weed. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, because like there's levels to be in a pothead. Like, there's definitely people that. that we know who are just out here smoking fucking either a ridiculous amount of like a normal way to smoke like blunts and splits and stuff. But then there's also people who are totally like out of their mind off the dabs, which

to me is like you're taking an amount of TAC that is so otherworldly in comparison to the way that most people smoke. Yeah, like dabs is the next level of pot smoking. I don't dab. You dab? No. That's like the, that's like a coca plant and doing cocaine versus. like that's the the weed version of coke to me yeah you know your cocaine i never did coke

you never followed me to go there i think i'm the only person in los angeles who never did cocaine that might be true yeah that's crazy i just my my pops was into it it was around me a lot and i just i saw the negative effect of that shit way early to know i wasn't navigating in that direction right yeah yeah i mean that's interesting like growing up in venice you're like exposed to a lot of stuff really early and you feel like that was almost what made you want to sort of stay away from a lot of the negative things that you could have got into yeah plus like that era of rap was like the we don't do drugs we might push them but we're not doing drugs like i don't know when drugs came into rap you know like the all the rap shit i knew it was like dudes was not doing drugs not even smoking weed really

that was like kind of like way out if you were doing that that was like some cypress hill shit dray dissed weed in like 91 or something it wasn't the nubes normal thing. A lot of people were straight. People were drinking. Yeah. But yeah, we wasn't like the thing. And doing coke or like meth or heroin or like you were a straight junkie. You know what but it's interesting because there were a lot of rappers that, you know, somebody like Prodigy who had a lot of struggles with like real hardcore drugs and like, but it was pretty well shielded from the public. Like it never really became part of like it's not like people were writing articles about it. Even though if you were really paying attention to his lyrics, you probably could have felt some of that.

Yeah, but he had a. real sickness that he was fighting the the pain that he was dealing with every day was was more than any of us could imagine you know and that disease is crazy too you know and um yeah that the the pee thing was crazy if anything he's excused you know but there was there was a lot of people now that we're finding out that we're on drugs that we were looking at as role models at the time right which was crazy but you know it's weird to me that i was such an idiot that i didn't realize the 36 mafia were rapping about coke all the time crazy yo salute to them and they they really like pioneers of this whole shit yeah like the sound that put out like has shaped modern rap way early

wow that was awkward you were pretty good on those you might need to flip it to redeem yourself one time show everybody damn sitting down i don't know i can do it fail blog hashtag fail there used to be a fail blog where you would go yeah see fails there you go um no yeah fail army there was a lot of like youtube channels that blew a fuck up off just the concept of posting fails love you have any interest in battle rap at this point in life no definitely not doesn't do it for you no I'm not trying to battle anybody not you doing it but just watching it oh oh crazy appreciating yes battle rappers are the best they're the best out like the best rappers for they write more fire and for one

battle that's going to be aired one time then rappers do for a whole album's worth in material for one battle it's like the the the amount of pressure they go through short notice the the the pressure to always deliver and be consistent in that you can't be a fluke you have to like legit be good at the craft so they're like the best yeah even the worst one when i get a battle rapper in for interview it's kind of overwhelming because i know that there's like you know i'm gonna have to watch at least maybe like four or five battles that are at least 45 minutes long but it's so entertaining and it's so interesting to just sit there and stare and watch the crowd fluctuate and like just that the whole fact that it's judged just

based on the personality, the cult of who believes in who on stage. It's just such a bizarre, like, sort of almost like primitive type of thing in a sense, like where it's like this is this is like the most basic level of our understanding of how human beings establish a social order. Confrontation in front of a crowd. It's nothing new. You know what I mean? And they're like the fucking gladiators of that shit, man. It's crazy. Yeah. And I respect it more even if they can take that use that as a platform to spring them up to another level which doesn't happen a lot which is interesting because writing bars is a different thing than songwriting yeah that is kind of

something that a lot of rappers at various points in our life have to reckon with have to deal with the fact that oh i can write a bunch of crazy ass punch lines but nobody really wants to hear me rap in a situation outside of that it's a weird phenomenon yeah that's weird um so are you at the point in your life now where you're still sort of looking for young talent for you know people who haven't been discovered yet is that something that you could imagine yourself doing in the sense of like actually signing an artist and pushing them 100 but i don't want to take that on until i'm ready to do it but i'm moving close towards that i promise i am um i remember about 2010 or nine or nine or 10 maybe going into 11 we uh there was a rapper named fast Sean who was working with this dude exile

and my man planted asia said he's got to come through when he came through and And I liked him so much. I introduced him to Alchemist. We took him to Europe. That was the story while Lee was talking about. Yeah, Fash. He ended up getting a double XL cover, signed with Nas, etc. And that was the last time where I was like, okay, and I did that out of love and just wanted to show the world somebody I thought was dope. But I was like in my mind, the next time I do that, I'm going to have an album I produced for them. Or I'm going to have some kind of vested interest in them past just being their homie. I still do it for the love, but I really want to be smart at the business side of that as well and make it if I'm going to introduce you and let you

steal my fans and bring you around and do what you need to do even if that's not the end of where you're going to go hopefully you'll jump over that at some point I want to be tied to it and um I think that's getting older and wanting to be smart on the business side there's a lot of heartbroken managers out there you know like managers who I've seen even just in my time doing interviews and stuff where I'll see some really enthusiastic manager and then all of a sudden you know the artist dips off and is just doing something with somebody else and they just seems so hurt i guess it's completely different for you because you have the ability to actually like shape the music with the beats and everything no i've gone through it man i've gone through it when we were dilated we had all the big managers we had whoever

was the popping guy at the popping firm we had those right then i went solo and i was like if i'm going to go solo i'm going to shed everything that i had including lawyers and managers i'm going to start from ground up I'm not going to put of dilated peoples on anything I do. When I perform solo songs, I'm not, I'm going to perform shows. I'm only going to do solo songs. I'm not going to do any of my dilated catalog. I'm going to start over. And that means they need to find a manager.

So I found this guy who was chilling with Strong Arm Steady, making shirts for them and kicking it a lot and coming into the studio. And Strong Arm Steady was like Cron Don and Phil the Agony and Mitchie Slick. And he was this dude, Brock. And, you know, he was coming through and sleeping on my couch. and we were like building some shit up together. And something went wrong. And he really wasn't like the most responsible guy

as far as like logistics of shit. And I got stuck somewhere in some airport in another country and I came back, you're fired. You know, I don't want to work. And, you know, now Brock is doing Kendrick and doing everything big, you know, it's like he's A&R, killing shit, you know, and it's funny. And that was like a, I'm proud of him,

so proud of him. But it was funny to see somebody who was kind of like pissed off in our situation and take that and then shoot to the top of the planet in his world. Yeah. And that hurt me for a minute. While I was creating my next stuff, I was thinking, fuck, maybe I shouldn't have done that.

So even when an artist dropped somebody and they're moving on, it looks like they're popping and the manager got left behind. A lot of the times the artist is still like in their feelings about that shit. Right. Yeah, for sure. See, that's interesting. Yeah, because I've had a lot of different opportunities over the past couple years where artists have said, like, oh, when you manage me or something,

some shit and it's like I just have never been able to really imagine myself biting off that because it's like I feel like if you're going to do it the right way you have to be willing to like treat their career as something you care about as much as you care about your own career 100 and I can't get there right now good management should as a manager and an artist should never have a contract no contract it should just be a mutual thing and that that usually leaves the artist with a lot more outs and the manager gets fucked in that situation but if if it's really really working out and the manager's really doing their job and really doing their job because sometimes the artist feels like they're working for the manager it's not that it's not the case and there should be

no reason to go anywhere everything should be good yeah because it's like a relationship right where it's like you would never want to have a contract with the person that you're seeing because you know if you want to go you should go straight up yeah so it's it's a risky business on the manager's side but definitely it should be a mutual thing straight up yeah so do you have anyone managing you at this point do feel like that's no i do i have a good manager yeah okay kevin zinger he's dope and he's been on he's been in like uh he's filled in the blanks and gone beyond his duties you know for me to i'm in a good place with him yeah he's one up do you feel like he understand yeah it's like is there certain something that it takes to understand where you're at in your career and what

you're trying to do is different than a lot of the artists the managers are flocking to i'm not trying to after brock i really learned a lesson and my mom used to do it my mom was a photographer she was to like hire people and I think she was probably lonely in that time of her life a little bit so she would befriend a lot of her employees and she would try to go eat lunch with them and stuff when they probably wanted to get the fuck away and you she they ended up leaving you know what I mean because at some some point they felt like this is too much you know and so I learned that lesson with Brock after that I was like I'm never going to be my friend a friend with my manager I'm not going to be a friend I'm he's going to be we're going to have a good working relationship and I'm going to

keep it at that and I've done a good job with Kevin although he really did become my friend and he's the fucking man um I don't feel like that that attachment as a friend that is that is that is there and I don't mean that in a bad way I mean it in the best way possible as far as my emotions are not tied up in our business relationship well if you had to go through that where in the early stage of your career you're hiring a lot of your friends people who are working for you or just your friends and it feels like over a time that is sort of like an inevitable thing that you sort sort of have to to shed because truth is that the best person for the job is usually not the person that you were hanging out with before you were doing your thing. If you get lucky it happens. It's time and time again,

it's not the case. You know what I'm saying? But there's something to be said for that motherfucker though because you're learning a lot and somebody learning with you is like there's something special about that when you just go to somebody and claim they know it all. And like I said, at some point you feel like you're working for them. There's something to be said about building something up with somebody you came up with. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel when you see the top 100 rappers conversation going on what would your list look like and how different would it be from a lot of the ones that we're seeing i think the list i think it's i don't think it's possible for any one person to make a list i think it's 50 actually just to correct yes but i would have to know

the person's motive behind the list like what are we judging this shit on because i talked to somebody who i respect and i'll leave him out but we were talking about the greatest rappers a long time ago in a studio session and his were the his were his where the his were his eras, greats, Jay-Z, big, Nas, etc. And I said, what about this guy, though? And this guy is somebody who's like a real lyricist, lyricist. And he was like, yeah, he's good, but he didn't

change a fucking era, though. You know what I mean? Or he didn't. You know, like, to him the greatest are people who have, like, changed the game. You know what I mean? Or had defining moments or hit records. You know what I mean? So, for that list, we could make more. And we can make, like, the best technical rappers.

Right. But, you know, like, it's just absolutely impossible. I think have different goals in this game. Some people want to be the best lyricist. Some people want to have the most people at their shows. Some people want to be, they want to make hit records. You know what I mean? So it just depends on what your real goal is.

And I think those lists would reflect accordingly. The one that I saw was like, there was some, there was a lot that should be on there to me. I just think that was also a generational thing. So to these new rappers looking at that, it might look a little crazy in the same way that the rappers who came before my era probably wouldn't be in that list as well. You know, it's interesting.

This whole list thing blew up because of the fucking fact that somebody included Joe Budden on their list. I guess that kind of is- So Joe Button didn't make that list? No, Joe, no, no. It was some random podcast with like 400 fucking followers who put this list out here, which is one of the funniest things I think about it. I thought he made that list and put himself there. No.

But, you know, that's the funny thing is that Joe Budden never shifted the culture. You never changed anything sonically or whatever. He's just a very good technical, proficient rapper. But it's just a very good rapper. Like, that's what I'm saying. Exactly. This is my point. And so it's like there's drummers.

You go link up in the drummer fucking world of people. And there's drummers who talk. And some could, it's like drum roll contests. You know what I'm saying? But when you come time to play a song, there's maybe one little section for you to do that. But you've got to get, you got to make something that's going to translate and that put a steady beat out. Yeah.

And so then you're not focusing on so much on. the roles, but can I play this drumbeat at the same exact time mark every time? Or, you know, how steady can I keep it for the rapper or the singer? And you focus on nuances that other people might not recognize your greatness. You know what I'm saying? And that's the same thing with slow flowing. Like we were talking about with like, you know, with slow flow rapping is like way exposed. That's that's the exact same thing as a drummer, just being able to keep perfect time. You know, And there might not be a lot of extra tricks, but you can't deny the skill set in what he's doing right there.

So I got off. Where were we going? Oh, so yeah. So the, Joe Budin. Just being a fucking good rapper not make you eligible to be top 50. But it's a very different list. And also the thing that pisses me off about it, though,

is that it's like, okay, if I was going to make that list, I'm going to put Cameron way higher than the average person puts camera on. I'm going to put 50 cent way higher than that. average person puts 50 cent because that was like for me when I was 18 that was like my whole life see but I don't want to knock them because those are slow floors right or they're not as lyrical and there's not as many things that line up in between there's in with they don't rhyme within the bars they might rhyme at the end of the bars you know it's to me get rich or die trying is one of the most powerful albums of all time like my mom felt that shit and it's no lyrical masterpiece it's no it is

no right right but not in a technical sense yeah even in a technical it's just not overly complex right You know what I'm saying? But that's what I'm trying to say is like being getting your point across and saying it simply is is one of the greatest things. Hence the reason you like camera. Yeah. And 50 cents. That shit moved you. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Even if it wasn't as wordy. And the only list though that I'm interested in reading is the kind of list where somebody feels comfortable. It's putting Joe Bunnan in number three and being like, yo, Joe Bunnan is my third favorite rapper of all time. I'm interested in that. I don't want to hear a fucking quantified thing where it's like this guy was. this important so he belongs there. Everybody's just roasting each other for his list.

My question to you is somebody who's kind of safe to say has the pulse of what's happening right now and coming from Snoop Dog like you were saying being influenced by where, at what point do you move the greats out and bring the new end to the same list? It's very hard. Do they belong together or is rap something different now? Yeah. Well, when you see those lists, I feel like you're seeing like the same sort of in terms of of the modern rappers.

You see Drake, you see Kendrick, you see Jay Cole. Those three. Yeah, those are the ones that you inevitably see every time. And even like, you know, Eminem's a current rapper. We don't think of him as being in the prime of his career, despite the fact he's still probably just as popular as he ever was. No, he's killing on a longevity level.

The fact that he's this relevant as a testament to what he did and the hunger to keep going. I'm saying age-wise, young, new style of rap when the beat switched. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, you know, that's the crazy thing, too, though, is if it's, I, you know, I don't think you've seen anybody put Chief Keef and Young Thug on those lists, but to me, Chief Keep and Young

Doug are probably some of the most, uh, they changed the culture. They changed rap the most in the past 10 years. So then if we made a 50 list on the people who shifted culture, then that would make more sense. Yeah. And then we could do a lyrical list and we could do another list of some sort. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah.

I mean, I, I think, it's just like weird conversation I have because I was trying to picture myself making a list and just picturing myself getting roasted, no matter what the fuck I put on it because anything that beard from the status quo at all is just going to get destroyed on Twitter. It's such a toxic atmosphere. Not if it had a prerequisite above it saying this is what I'm or this is the reason this is the lyrical list or this is the hit record list. Yeah. Do you have a relationship with Twitter? I do. I love Twitter. Okay. You want Twitter? No. Yeah, no hugely. But I just feel like Twitter is one thing that a lot of people like you seem like you're out a pretty good state mentally mature, kind of realizing that there's certain frivolous things that you shouldn't

be putting your attention into. And it feels like Twitter is one thing that people at some point realize like, oh, this isn't healthy for me. Who you are on Twitter and who you are on Instagram are two completely fucking different people. Oh yeah. You know, sometimes you'll find someone talking wild shit and then you'll just search the name on Instagram and it's like them with puppies and shit. You know what I mean? It's like it's it personally you just this is to like say shit you can't always say and this is to like try to be who you want to be like put out that image. The Twitter is good for me. I'll share my life on Instagram and be like personal and be like, you know what I'm saying, post pictures of my son in the hopes that one day he'll see the

messages I'm writing to him here and on Twitter I will never post a picture of my kid. I feel like that's up for scrutiny. That's up for wild shit depending on my if I'm who I'm voting for. You know I mean like that's a that's a wild place yeah no it's almost like inevitably anything that you put on like Twitter is for everyone else whereas like if you are not a fan of me you really have almost no reason to run into my Instagram you know or a boss you're interested in going there whereas like Twitter i mean Twitter is the place where we know that someone will post something of something that they're into and then somebody will quote tweet it and get 10,000 100,000 retweet it happens every day over and over and over where it's just somebody who likes one thing and then

somebody who doesn't like that thing. Twitter is the place. Put them on blast. Ruin their fucking life for a while. Twitter is the place that you can't beat the hitter net. That's the spot. You know what I mean? Instagram is more of a safe haven for.

Yeah. And then you have like Facebook where it's like I would never dream of reading a Facebook comment in a million years. I haven't logged into that shit in years. Once in a while it'll pop up in my Google alerts of like, oh, there's this thread on Facebook of like a bunch of people talking about you. I'm like, no. Should have done it on Twitter.

Yeah, that's just for the birds. I'd be like going to Walmart and just hanging out and listening and see if anybody was talking about you. You go to Walmart? That's what fucking being on Facebook is Walmart. It is Walmart at the internet. And that's what Twitter's dope because it's like Spencer's. It's like Hot Topic. I don't even know what Spencer's.

It's where you buy like fart pills and shit. Like an ICP shirt. I like that. You know Hot Topic, right? No. Really? You haven't been in the mall that long? No.

Damn, man. You're an adult. I got arrested for Shoblin'Hoplin'Hopopop on a hot topic when I was 13. Fuck. terrible candles or something like a chain wallet too much info um

so let's talk about uh oh yeah i wanted to ask this before we even talk about like what you have on the way is will there ever be another dilated project could you imagine yourself getting it into that state of mind i don't think so right now um i won't rule it out that's always like a it's not necessary i think groups get emotional and they's never doing another thing i don't know what the future will do they put any kind of pressure on you like yo we should do some shit i think i think um a little bit sometimes here and there and maybe i've

you've been that guy at times i've probably been that guy and i've also if it made sense i've also done it you know what i'm saying there's still shows uh europe is still good to us there's still places people come in a bag and a genuine interest in doing something um i think we're still a draw you know i think we could you guys do that euro festival type shit we do historically we have have we have not in a long time i think we were running ourselves thin doing that shit because if you don't do it for a long time then it's like oh they're going to let your headline it's a weird thing and that's what i'm saying you want to come back as that as that um nostalgic thing i don't know if i want to do that right now i'm for me i'm still i'm still pushing still striving to do shit

and i feel like dilated is something we did and did well and that's that with that said rock and babu are my brothers and uh going away from them for a minute does make you realize when someone's in your life and shaped you so much how much you do miss them sometimes so I think I missed them but I'm not going to get that confused with needing to do a new record right now I got you yeah but evidence thing is what's pushing me right now right so your new project you've been working on when do you see that kind of coming to fruition when you think you start rapping over those beats you've been making making a lot of beats that's been my hobby lately, just beats is what I'm really into right now more than anything. Throughout

my career, I've been blessed to have the best like alchemist and premier and knots and you name it. I've worked with them and something feels safe about that to me right now where I don't want to do that again. And that means that I'm challenging myself because who wouldn't want to do that? But for me, as a beatmaker and somebody who's putting a lot of my heart into it and having people take my beats. I've been working West Side Gunn and I did a Damo project from my future. I did a Defar album, a Mad Child album. I got a new album with someone coming on the way. I feel like I respect them and they fuck with my shit. It's time that I step up and do my own album, which means it could be my worst or my best record, I feel like. It's not going to leave

much in the middle and that's where I need to be. So sometimes I write a rhyme to my beat and I think it's the shit and I'm ready to go and then Al plays me a beat and I chicken out and the rap I had written to that I'll spit it to his shit and I'm historically I've done that so this time I just need to like at least shape the sound of the album myself and then I can possibly venture out and show people this is what I'm going for do you have something that can add on to that instead in letting them shape the sound of the album and those are my favorites those are the best to me, you know, but it feels like something I need to do. All four of my albums have been weather related. I'm the weatherman. That's my moniker, you know, and so my first one was

weatherman, second one was layover, third cats and dogs, fourth weather or not. And I feel like I need to put an end to that chapter and do something new. So I actually got the name for my next album. It was given to me today by Laura while we were waiting. What was it again? Tough crowd. Tough crowd. She said I'm a tough crowd because she was trying to get shit out of me and I wasn't giving her any info so what she was trying to pry you open before the interview even started she and tell me about anything she learned yeah it was too much really but tough crowd I think that's my album I like that because I mean that's an apt metaphor it is a fucking tough crowd out there I'm a tough crowd apparently well you're a tough crowd in the

sense that you're a traditionalist in a lot of ways that it's like you're not somebody who's necessarily 100% receptive to a lot of stuff that people are trying to sell you on. I'm more open than you would think when it comes to music if that's what you're getting that. But I mean in your personal style it feels like you sort of you know, there's not that many people are like feel like they're really holding true to the classic roots of hip-hop and the ones that do give a lot of praise for it. I don't make, I don't make music with that in my mind. I'm not doing that. I promise it's just what I fucking love to do. When I came up, we love gangstar, we love DPMD, we love certain shit and that's what we

modeled our shit after was people we aspire to be like. If I genuinely was into pop shit or big shit or what was getting you the bitches and the money immediately, I probably would have been a different artist. So I think it's just a deep for better for worse. It's just who I am. And there's a big renaissance of that right now. And not people like doing throwback shit, but really like a bunch of like-minded people. And I'm fine.

And they're pushing the culture forward in a lot of ways, whether it's being pushed by labels or not there's like a new section of whether it's YouTube or wherever the fuck you find it or a live show of a lot of people who are doing gutted shit right now that's not built for the radio and getting big followings and having success with it even if it's not on a major major level right yeah you're very still like very sample oriented whereas the rest of hip-hop is no longer there not a lot of record records are sample now right you'd be surprised there's a lot of people but there's like been this whole sort of rejection of that and a lot of hip-hop

music and the set primarily just for money reasons right yeah that was the main uh the main thing that the tours you originally was just sampling some shit and getting denied or having to pay give up all your publishing right new people new cats coming out are like i am not giving up all my fucking published do you try not to think about that when you're making a song yeah but i'm still underground enough where a lot of that stuff doesn't come to the surface god willing you know what i mean not all the way oh so there's an art to sort of hiding that shit yeah depends who you ask it if you're on a big enough channel I think you should if you're flying below the radar I don't know if

it's all the way necessary if it starts to pop and you see indicators of that shit shooting up do it see I heard that there's the labels have bounties out on finding samples that they do are unidentified yeah that's scary it's so scary but that's the thing is like there's even people who are who are popping making big records they get a sample pack from somebody right so they're not sampling a record per se but they're doing sample packs where somebody a bunch of music with the intention to be in sample and in those packs a lot of people put a from james brown or they do a little little things you know a lot of people putting samples in their

shit not even realizing it right you know so wow yeah it's just crazy that is really interesting yeah it's not it's everywhere damn that's crazy um all right so yeah man it was dope getting the chance to talk to you man thank you for this opportunity i appreciate you coming in for sure i would love to like link up see the creative process at some point or like getting the studio with you an alchemist or something i'll pull up with a fucking pound of weed and we can figure something out right let's go man yeah let's go that'd be sick appreciate you man evidence no jumper coolest podcast in the world check us out on youtube sound cloud iTunes like comment and subscribe no jumper.com if you want to support appreciate you man