No Jumper - The Hopsin Interview: How To Be a Ninja, Getting Stuck in Thailand During COVID, Dax, NF & More

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

Hopsin is back on No Jumper for a delightful and in depth interview, where he talks about protecting his happiness at all times, dropping singles instead of albums, longevity in the game, Eminem influence, working with NF, Dax and more! https://www.instagram.com/hopsin/ https://twitter.com/hopsin https://www.facebook.com/hellohopsin/ https://www.youtube.com/c/hopsin/videos ----- CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5tesvmDS8h50LkjnSAWMOs?si=j6sJD6DkR4mk5NZZWnlK7g FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz Follow us on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nojumper iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFICIAL http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper. Coolest podcast in the world. And today we got Hobson back after about three years. How you living, man? Hey, I'm living better than ever, man. Mentally, better. Physically, everything's better. That's good to hear.

Yeah, yeah, I can't complain at all. Definitely. I mean, I went back and rewatch that old interview, and it did have like a tinge of, you know, and I guess you probably are always going to kind of fill this way to a certain extent, but it felt like you felt like you were kind of very, unsure of exactly where your career was at, where your place in the game was at. And that was like the main thing that struck me.

It was like that was a really interesting interview because you were sort of being up front about that. Yeah. Yeah. I was also very depressed during that time that I don't know if I can tell that I was depressed in that interview, but I don't know if others can read it. But yeah, that was a time in my life where I was unsure about a lot of things. Right.

Yeah. I feel it. I feel like you're somebody who like I don't think you can make music without sort of having to show how you're really feeling. I can't. That's what I struggle with. A lot of people make generic life songs where it's just like,

they word it in a way where it's not too personal and it's just like vaguely relates to everybody and that stuff can work for them. But I'm like, that's why I put out songs slow because I really want to channel it from a place of honesty. I want to make sure everything that I put out is really from the heart.

and it's something that I went through, something that I'm going through. I don't like making songs just because, you know, because it feels like I could do that, but my fans are going to be able to tell because the reason my fans love me is because of my honesty and those songs that I put out that had, you know, traumatic situations in them that were kind of difficult to get through and me just kind of finding my way. So, yeah, I don't think that will ever change. I feel like you're more like a real artist in the sense that you need to feel that inspiration whereas a lot of people

rapping is like a craft like you know a carpenter can pull up to your house and build you a fucking shelf well I guess they would probably build the shelf and then bring it to your house or whatever but like they could do the little odd job at anybody's house and that's fine and that's how a lot of rappers feel is like oh like you know even at the heights of their popularity when

we were all listening to Lil Wayne it's like you could tell like Lil Wayne would pull up on anybody get on anyone's song it wasn't you knew it wasn't necessarily that he was motivated artistically by every single one of those beats that was hit me you know yeah yeah but he was a vibe though and he knew how to channel that vibe and he could do it you know very consistently and there are a lot of artists who can do that you know um and you know i'm sure i could tap into that and sometimes

i feel like i do sometimes i don't i you know i'm when it comes to creating music i'm involved in the entire process from you know just i i make the beat first you know i make all my beats i i I've been producing everything my entire career. And then, you know, once I make the beat, of course, you know, I write the song to it. And I'm just, it's just me in the studio, honestly. There's no one else at all. So I'm just doing everything. And then, you know, I mix and master the record.

I write a treatment for the music video. Then I fly wherever I need to. I've been living in Thailand, especially over the past year. But I come back and forth. So I fly out to L.A. I do my music video and then I go back home and edit it

edit the video and everything and then by the time I put a song out I believe that they're like amazing pieces of work when I put a music video out a song and a music video I always put them together but I'm so drained afterwards

because I'm like dude that shit like just killed me like it's just yeah and I'm like dude I wish there was two me's and maybe I should get an engineer or somebody else to kind of take the low

off but I feel like I also feel like it's a part of the creative process to do everything the way that I've been doing it you know it does it is fun to me but it does take a toll. That's interesting. So you're actually in the studio rapping and if you you know fuck up a bar or whatever that's actually you like repunching into every everything is me. I tell everybody this. I'm like if my brand were like Coca-Cola I'm the only one inside of the the factory. You see the big factory and you think there's going to, like when it comes to the music side specifically, not like the business stuff, but the music stuff, everything that you're hearing, it's just only me. That's interesting. Yeah, like I, but I, I enjoy it that way. I don't want anybody around. I don't want anybody's opinions. I don't want anybody trying to, you know, shift me out of my element and all that. And yeah, I personally find it difficult to work with certain people, but I'm aware that maybe I just haven't found the right people to, you know,

team up with and create a project with or something like that. Did you used to have, have you always wrapped on primarily your own beats? This is 100% everything. Yeah, there's been maybe two occasions where I wrapped on someone else's beat, but everything that people typically know from me has been my beats. It's interesting because I feel like a lot of people, they start to get a degree of popularity, and then they just take on a bunch of different employees and people that work with them

so that they can make music more comfortably and make more of it. Yeah, yeah. I've thought about that, you know? If I hired other producers, hired ghost writers, and hired this and that, Hobson would be on a different level right now. And all I had to do is show up and look like this bullshit everywhere. And then didn't know why motherfuckers are in the studio somewhere, write the shit for me. I just show up and spit it and leave and go do my interviews.

That'll be great. But that's not how I do it, though, you know? Yeah. Yeah, like, I wish. And I hear about other artists doing it that way where they show up to the studio. So it was like, yo, I got this hook for you. here it's just like this and they go cool and they spit it and then they leave engineer mixes it sends it and they're like cool done put it out i was listening to a rapper uh this morning in the gym

just came on and i'm not going to say who because i don't want him to ever have to like respond to this but he i was just listening to him and i'm thinking like this guy has to have a writer by this point in his career he's like 40 plus years old he don't rap like the way he used to his stuff sounds written where it used to I'm punched in and I'm just thinking I'm like, I would be astonished if this guy didn't have somebody helping him out with these verses at this point in his career. And I don't necessarily look down on it. I mean, you kind of have to respect the sleight of hand to a certain extent. Like the same way you're looking at the girl's photos and you know she don't really look like that.

But the photos look so good that you're like, well, it's fucking work or art. The way it props to you for what you're pulling off here, you know? Yeah, yeah, I feel you. Yeah, you know, it's, and it's not, I think some people. people just have different, you know, priorities and they, you know, and different goals and stuff like that. So some people may, they, they might just want to be the biggest artist. It doesn't matter if they wrote it or not. They just want to, they want to, wherever they show up, they want to shut it down. And it has to be undeniably like, I'm that dude, I'm that guy, you know what

I'm saying? And I'm not necessarily, that's not my goal. That's not who I want to be. I just want to be authentic and I don't want to anyone ever say that I wasn't me you know so everything comes from my heart are you somebody who uh kind of took solace in the mask mandate to a certain extent I feel like you probably kind of appreciate the added degree of privacy um I I do the COVID stuff with the mask I do love it it has protected me a lot now and it's made things easier um through the COVID stuff of course I began. I mean, it kind of happened before the COVID stuff, like this, whatever the fuck this is.

I, um, it, I've always wanted to just, when I was a little kid, I was like, man, I want to be a ninja when I grew up. I want to be a fucking ninja, and that's just always what I felt like

when I walked around. I was in school, running through the streets, so I'm like, I feel like a fucking ninja. Every Halloween, I was always a ninja. And then, you know, when you become an adult, you just do adult. shit and then I just recently maybe over the um past two years or so maybe yeah two years I was like

I still want to be a ninja that shit never went away I wish like people just dressed how they wanted to dress so people can just like get straight to the point of who we are so it's just like yep this is how I feel inside you can see it you know what you're getting when you look at me like some fuck shit whatever the fuck it is you know what I'm saying like I am because I feel like everyone's kind of the same and I'm like dude like I've I recently like I feel like I've gotten in touch with my inner child and and I'm just learning to to just let go and do whatever the fuck I want you know what I saying because like integral to being in touch with your inner child is kind of not paying attention to the the analytics that you're sort of receiving from everything all the time because like for me

I'm kind of always having a way the pros and cons of I got this business to run and like with the business like I should be chasing money that's what a business is about make as much money as possible but then there's the other side of my personality which is like I'm just interested in what I'm interested in yeah you know I can't ignore that that like I'm going to be reading articles about things that 10 people care about that if I talked about it on here nobody would care about yeah and you know you're always kind of trying to weigh those yeah no it's true and and I found myself kind of playing that game my whole career of almost just like doing whatever it takes to maintain the business in the right way that everyone else has already done it.

And you know what? In the end of all of this, you know, and we're all old on our deathbed, you know, I know personally me, I'm not going to, I don't think anyone is really going to care about, like, you know, how much money and how cool they look. It's just more like, were you happy, you know, where you living true to yourself of who you wanted to be? And that's just all I want to do now. I only want to contribute to my well-being.

I don't care about what society says. I don't care about the norms. I'm just going to do whatever the fuck I want to do. You know, we are here for a short period of time on this earth, and why not make the best of it, you know? Just live it the best way we can, whatever our imagination goes to. Let's just fucking do that. Because, dude, even just the whole concept of when you become an adult,

And dude, the society's idea of an adult is fucking boring, dude. I'm, get that out of here. Get that the fuck out of here. Like, dude, I don't give a fuck about, I'm detaching from the Matrix. You don't feel like more of an adult now? Because, like, I, like, just in my perspective, I have a house now. I got a girl I'm engaged to, and we got a seven-month-old baby. So I feel more like an adult than ever, even though I completely agree that, like,

conforming to a lot of these adult things. Yeah. It's fucking stupid. Yeah. Like so, and I'm not saying like, I mean, getting a house is an amazing thing. I'm not going to say like that. That's just a thing you just need, you know, you need a home to. Even if you were four, you would want your own house.

Yeah. Exactly. So I'm not saying, when I say adult things, I'm not talking about like getting the car, you know, finding ways to make money, having a job. It's just more of the persona of like, I'm an adult, I'm boring. I don't do that stuff that I used to like being an astronaut. get out of here. I got realistic dreams now. I want to go work at Target or go fucking sit in the office for fucking eight hours a day. You know what I'm not I'm not like you know you still

got to work and hustle and you know you got to have a plan but dude like I've I've felt like I've always understood the way the universe works even since a since a kid I've I don't know I never saw myself like doing what everyone else is doing and I and I and I have and I have had this feeling in my heart that I'm going to get away with it. Like, although, you know, teachers, everyone like, you know, that's not going to work. That's not realistic. This and that. I'm 35 years old right now, a millionaire on this podcast.

You got a fucking Lambo. I got a house overseas in Asia. I got a house, a few houses out here in America. What the fuck? Like, I don't know, whatever the fuck school taught me with some bullshit, dude, because I did everything against the grain. Not saying, you know, school is bad. There's, there are lots of benefits in it, but just this whole, whatever the fuck they were trying to mold me into, get that the fuck out of here too. Like, I'm, you know the rare exceptions to the rule that could

really, like, be, like, sort of stay in that childlike state, not like the entirety, because obviously you got to run a business, you get a tour, you got to do all these things, but a big chunk of like what makes your shit special or makes people attracted to it is basically you being able to get into that childlike mental state and just, be free on the mic in a way that would be like completely incomprehensible to the average adult. Yeah. You know, hopefully me and other people who kind of go against the norm can set a different tone among society where it can, you know, be common where you see people doing that more often

because I know people are scared. You know, I know people are scared to kind of take those risks because, I mean, when you take a huge leap, there's a fucking, you're going to potentially splat if you're winged. don't expand, you know? And I don't know, but you just got to, you got to have faith. You got to trust yourself. I've always just, like, trusting myself. I'm, I'm the same kind of human as everybody else, you know, born the same fucking way. We're all just, it's the same shit. You know, I'm just, I'm not scared to fail. I'm not scared to make a fool of myself. And I know that I'm not going to give up on myself. Like, I know that if I run into a fail, a failing situation,

I'm going to figure it out. So the next time I apply myself to it, it's hopefully a different outcome, you know? Definitely. So you were in Thailand when COVID hit? Yes. And how long have you already been out there? Excuse me.

I was there. I moved there January 1st, actually, of 2020. Wow. So you pretty much picked the perfect time if you wanted to be stuck out there for it. Tokyo first in December because I was going to live there and then I was like I'm not vibing with this place so I was like let me go to Thailand that was your first time in Tokyo Yeah and you thought you were gonna actually live there and it was too much of a fucking Japanese arcade for you to just feel comfortable It was a lot. It was a lot you've been to you've been to yeah I mean it's definitely like the wildest

energy and vibe anywhere I've ever been but it but it was cold I saw so cold out there I couldn't even like I went during the wrong time I didn't even get to see everything because it was it was freezing but it was like a Japanese arcade um but i was like thailand i think that's that's more my vibes so yeah i was out there covid hit i went out there originally for like a just a little vacation but i ended up just living there once covid hit i was like this is not too bad so i just said fucking i'm staying where did you like about it just uh it was just blissful the nature i got my little fucking moped out there didn't have no car just a little moped riding down the street and shit and it's just like that when you see all the,

that just, it's just the, the nature over there is so beautiful. I can't even like, you just, like I flew a few of my friends out there who had never been overseas and they were just like,

wow, I've never seen anything like this. And it's just one of those things, it's hard to explain. You just got to feel it. When you're there, you're just like, I don't,

I don't want to leave. Why would I leave? Were you in Bangkok or you're in one of these beach cities? Okay. Yeah. been there too yeah yeah fuket i i've been to bangkok a few times but of course you got to fly into it's a little hectic yeah yeah yeah i want to some more peaceful near the beach yeah i mean there's there's like a lot of reasons why i could see myself really like in uh living out there

because i know a bunch of these dudes who play poker and so they choose to live in thailand because a lot of these asian businessmen are just giving money away at the poker table like they make so much money and they don't know how to fucking play poker and they just are crazy so these dudes live out there they live off like 400 dollars a month for like you know to live in a great house and to have whatever they need and i mean i think there's a lot of dope things about it like especially if you don't speak tie like you're driving on the street you see a billboard you don't know what it says you see a street sign you know it says you walk by you can walk by a thousand people none of them are going to know who you are even look at you twice etc it's like i feel like that an inanimate anonymous nature and you're

anonymity. Let's just say that. Okay. And I don't know. I can see that like that you would appreciate that a lot. Dude, yeah. It's so dope, man. It's so dope. I love it out there. Yeah, I just, it's just peaceful. You know, you spend a lot of time with yourself. Yeah, you know, it's hard to make, like, I've made friends out there, but not as many as I have in America, of course, because, you know, a lot of my friends that I've made are, like, taxi drivers who are just like, when they lay off, just they give me ride so often and then we just become friends and then you know they all some of the taxi drivers tend to hang out at the beach in a certain spot whatever and you just go down and hang with them and yeah yeah but took took drivers are actual taxi drivers oh yeah yeah i was kicking

it with a bunch of took took guys out there yeah yeah dude it's dope i i love being in a new place where i don't know anybody and nobody knows me yeah and i know like it's it is a challenge because you're like oh my god but i it it gives me life because I'm like, I got to figure it out. Did it make you feel less capable of, like, being a career rapper, being somewhere where you're, like, never going to hear a rap song unless you go out of your way. You're never going to see another rap fan. I mean, it's got to be different.

Yeah, it's totally different. It makes, I forgot that I was like, like, when I was out there, there were certain moments where you just forget that you're, like, famous or popular. When I came back to America and I was at, the airport and then people recognized me again. I was like, I forgot. Because I, because I'd been away for so long, excuse me, where I've been away for so long where people just weren't

recognizing me like that out in Thailand. And when I got back to America, I was like, shit. Like I forgot this was a thing, you know? I gotta get used to this again because I was used to just walking around freely. I think like minimizing your ego is super important for anyone, like trying to figure out, like, what is the real you and what is the ego, this idea of yourself that you've sort of built up in your head. And that becomes

really, really difficult when every time you go out in public, you have somebody who's basically approaching you because of your fame, because of your prior accomplishments. It kind of becomes hard for you to remove yourself from this character that you've created for yourself, this life you've created for yourself, which an average person doesn't really have that. You know, an average person who can walk around anonymously, they don't have that sort of constant reinforcement of like, oh, you are the things that you've already done in your life up to this point. Yeah, yeah. It is kind of strange sometimes.

You know, I break it down in my mind to try to understand it. And I do get it because I've been on that side. And even me, when I see celebrities, I'm just like, even I get that feeling of like, I've got to tell them how much they mean to me and what they've done. and I got to tell them everything. And then, but yeah, it's strange. It's strange. But every time people come up to me and they start doing that,

and they go, man, you're so amazing. You're just, I go, hey, man, we're all amazing in our own ways. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I'm lucky enough to where you know the area that I do this thing in that you enjoy, but I'm sure you do something amazing as well that I would appreciate if I, you know, if I knew your life like that.

So I just always try to remind them that. I always remind them that I always remind them that I am normal just like them. It's so hard for, I know, like, people from the outside of this fame bubble, when they're looking at it from the outside in, they don't believe, I guess, like, a famous person is normal. They just can't. And even, and I still sometimes fall under that where I'm looking at other people, I'm like,

I don't believe he's normal. Like, I don't believe Drake is normal. Right. I was talking, I was on it. I was doing Instagram live the other day. I was like, I can't even picture, like, the rock clipping his toenails. Like, like normal things.

Like, I don't know how it gets done, but you know it does. But normal things like that. It's just random shit where I'm like, there's certain famous people where I'm like, I truly don't believe that they are normally any way, shape, or form. But I, but at the same time, I know they have to be. Right. You know, and it's just that perception of what you buy into the image of what you see in the media, Instagram, the music videos.

And you just take that so literal where you're like, that's all it. probably is. Right. Yeah. It's hard like even like there's been things that have happened on the podcast and then there's been like memes from those things. And then one time I remember Drake just sent me this meme. And I'm like that really fucking blows my mind that A, you even saw that podcast to understand this joke and that you laugh so hard at a meme that you felt the need to send me it out of all the people in your life that you could have probably sent this to. Like every like Drake watching a podcast It's hard for me to wrap my head around.

I cannot picture that. I cannot picture him sitting there eating the fucking donut, just watching it sitting there for fucking 20 minutes. It's only 24 hours in a day. You just kind of feel like Drake's 24 hours have to be so full of options for exciting things to do that the podcast thing probably, or never mind listening to new artists and stuff.

But you know that. You see him supporting random new artists all the time, so you know that that's how he gets down. Yeah, yeah, I know. But it's just really, you're right. It's hard to picture Drake watching a podcast. Can't do it. It's a long-term investment. Yeah. Yeah. So wait, so COVID hits in Thailand and that basically, I'm assuming, like, freezes your life for a significant period of time? Or what happened? It froze. It gave me life, honestly. I loved it. I loved what it did. Like, I mean, okay, hold, let me rewind. I'm going to say some stupid shit. I love that it happened because it's a reality check for humanity. Right. And whether it was something to happen naturally or the government did it, it's a reality check of the universe reminding us as individuals.

You were never control of the exterior world to begin with. So focus on yourself, focus on yourself internally and get your mind right. And because this shit could happen again and again and again. And I know it shook so many people up and knocked them out of their comfort zone with like, oh no, what do I do? I can't work now. How am I going to get money? And in my perspective, I'm like, you should have been thinking about that from the beginning.

Did you really think this, like, the government cared about you like that? To where, like, you, like, this is always something that could potentially happen. So you always got to just think 10 steps ahead because, yeah, man, you don't want to be caught slipping. You got one life. We're here, you know?

So, you know, I don't, I don't ever want to be the person blaming the government going, oh, the government took my money. It can't do that. They're saying this. like you're a human on earth do what you would do if you were alien and you came to this fucking rock and you're like i got to survive you you still got to always have that mode on you no matter what even if the government says everyone's granted this much money you're all going to be good you still got out that one switch going but what if they take it away then what am i going to do so

covid kind of gave me like not the actual virus but the the the whole experience it i feel like it just like I was so isolated I was really by myself and it pushed me to work on myself even harder my mental state became so much better I started fucking listening to so many audio books I dude I'm I'm a different man now I'm stronger now like not just because of COVID but the COVID definitely pushed me to be isolated to where like I looked at it as time where I'm like okay after all this ends I'm going to come out a fucking beast that's amazing yeah because I can kind of had the same situation where leading up to COVID, I had just years and years of the business getting better and I'm doing these interviews and I'm in the store and I'm talking

all these people and I'm going out at night and I'm meeting people in the club and all this bullshit and it's like all of a sudden it just got zapped and all of a sudden I just had way more free time. I felt like way more of a kid. I felt like I actually had some free time to explore things I was excited about and granted along with that came like the reality check of like oh like maybe i'll get sick maybe i'll die yeah maybe some people i know will die or at least maybe my business will be totally fucked maybe uh you know a lot of bad hypothetical situations going through my head but i needed that fucking break so bad and now i feel like i can like chill and relate to people a lot more and not at this frantic pace all the time yeah yeah man that's dope that's dope

yeah i like i said i feel like it um regardless of how it have whatever feel like it overall could be the universe's like the subliminal message to us to like, yo, here's some time for you all to get to yourself right, working yourselves, find yourselves a little bit more, you know, so it's, that's how I took it. And I definitely utilized that time. Definitely. You said you were listening to a lot of audio books. Was there anything in particular that you were studying or anything in particular about yourself that you were really trying to work on and hone in on? Yeah. Um, so, I've

in the past I feel like the way that I used to handle negative situations was just not right you know and I'm not saying

I was the type like I don't know it was just random you know I was a fucking loose canon so whether it was with people I'm doing business with or you know getting yelling at people on tour or times where I'm uncomfortable, whatever, or even in relationships that I was having. When it came to a negative situation, I didn't, I got to a point where I realized I had to

take some accountability for the energy that I was, you know, projecting onto the world and then pointing the finger at them for, you know, reacting to a way that I may have been reacting. So, um, and I, yeah, so it took me a while to be able to reach a point of taking full accountability and I've just been through a lot of fucked up situations like I um just with um past business partners and you know um I hate to call it say baby mama drama and shit like that but those moments really fucking push me into a dark place where I was like I need to be mentally stronger and I don't know how and I don't even know if it's possible so then just instinctually I was just on YouTube on internet trying to find anything that was anything to help me get

through these times. And yeah, man, I just wanted to be like who I envision myself as when I'm older. I just, I want to be a wise man who laughs at everything. It doesn't fear anything no matter what it is because I understand that it's just the course of nature happening. No matter what it is, you know what I'm saying? And I just want to be able to understand and process it and also be able to shed light on individuals who are lost. But I know that that vision of me when I'm older, Who I was, you know, at that moment, that current moment of time was not anything aligned with that person that I wanted to be. So I just knew I needed to work on myself. I needed to approach situations with a kinder heart, being more empathetic towards others,

and understanding that every individual has their own, like, path that they've taken. And they've only seen life from their perspective and their perspective only because they've only lived in their body. So if I disagree with somebody, there's no need for me to throw a tantrum like that. I just go, now I just go, I understand that we are two different people and that is okay. And you're not wrong for being your own person, you know, as you should. It sucks we don't agree. And I do feel this certain way, but I'm not going to bash you for it. When you have a conflict with somebody, it's so, there are so many routes to actually handling that conflict.

But we as humans, I think, like frequently only see one, which is the one that our anger or emotion sort of presents to ourselves. I was having a conversation with my buddy that we do podcast with, and he said, if me and you ever get into a fight over a disagreement, it'll be fine after. Like, we could fight, get through the issue like that, and then we could be cool after. Like, that's normal to me.

Yeah. And in my head, I was like, I would never do that. If I had an issue with somebody that was so big that I actually felt like we wanted to put hands on each other, I would probably never talk to you again. Like, I would probably just let that be the end of the relationship. You know? And now I'm just like thinking about that.

Like that's two very different ways to handle a problem and neither of those are ideal. Yeah, yeah. It would be way better to talk through it to be empathetic to understand the other person's perspective without having to get to the point of hitting each other. Yeah, yeah. And because the worst feeling, and I'm sure you probably can agree, everyone can agree who's, you know, been through some stuff. You, the worst feeling is handling a situation wrong and in that moment feeling mad. And then whether it's a week later, six months later or years later, you're going,

I really miss that person in my life. I really like, and that's the true feeling, but then your ego and pride getting the way you go, but fuck that, I ain't hitting them up. But then your heart is like, I miss them being around so much. And it could be male or female, you know, homies, whatever it is, but it's just that feeling of going,

I don't really feel how I portrayed that I feel in that situation. And now they're under an impression that I'm living my best life and not giving the fuck about them, but in actuality, I do give a fuck. And I see me personally, I don't want that feeling to ever be lingering in me ever again. So in situations where I'm arguing with somebody,

I try to humble myself and remind them like, yo, I love you. Like I want to know like this is getting out of hand, but I want to start this and end this with, I love you. Now let's talk. And I love you again. Let's end it because this is,

humans are going to, you know, have, you know, moments of arguing where, you know, fires spark up here and there, but it doesn't mean it has to be a fucking death sentence of the, of the relationship, you know? And that's just normal. So I'm really trying to take, I'm really learning to take a more humble approach and just really understand people's perspective and just, dude, it's just life. Like we, like, we're just trying to figure it out. We're doing the best that we can. And even when you've got a hot hate, reckless talking, whatever, that's probably all. all they know. That's the best way that they know how to do it. And you got to look at it like a robot.

That robot is just programmed to do that. And they don't even realize that they're programmed. And that's just the programming of it. You know what I'm saying? So you just got to walk away or, you know, just be like, hey, all right. It's all love regardless. Like, do you? Yeah, like, I've had people in my life where we've gotten into, you know, big-ass arguments. And then when I look back at it and then it just never talked after that. And when I look back at it, sometimes I feel like I don't give a fuck about the situation at all, but because my life is comparatively going pretty well compared to yours. And then meanwhile, you fucking hate me. You can't let go of that rage that you have towards me. I'm sure every single time your fucking Explorer page shows me and you see me doing good that it

upsets you. And that's like a weird feeling because it's like I felt like we were on the same team and that and that's how I always think of it with my girl. Like if we get into an argument and I start to like realize my brain is trying to hurt her feelings. My brain is trying to make her upset my brain is trying to convince her that I'm right and that she's wrong when in reality the whole idea of what we're doing together by having a house together and having a kid is that we're supposed to be on the same team like I should never be doing anything that's trying to tear you down or make you feel something negative that's like the last thing I should ever want here and as soon as you think that in your head it becomes kind of hard for you to keep going hard

for your self-interest in that argument in the same way yeah yeah no I know I know exactly what you're talking about it it's crazy how how we like naturally gravitate towards like when they're doing something to us like let me hurt them back i got to hurt them back i got to hurt them harder i got to smash them harder and to the people you love to the people you love yeah the people literally you'll be with your girlfriend whatever and that's the feeling and at some point we all got to step back and go why am i trying to hurt the person that i love the most out of everybody like what's going on here you know and but that but that's when i and this is why you know when um the the knowledge that

that I've been taken in, I'm learning to understand how the mind works and how the imagination works and how our thoughts work and how our thoughts are just a thing that is just happening, just like your heartbeat, you know, you can't stop it. You can't, I mean, you can stop your heart from beating, but ultimately just living a normal life every day doing whatever, going to the story, your heart's just beating in the background of your life. And your mind is just also thinking. And the mind is just a, it's just a system that's there to present possibilities to you And you can accept them or not accept them. You know what I'm saying?

So if me, you have a feud right now, my brain could be like, okay, I can say, fuck you, I could push the mic, I could try to punch him in the face, I could just get up, walk away, I could take a fist right there, I could just try to shake his hand, I can tell him I love him. And then you, you've got all these options and you're going, hmm, I want that one right there. Fuck you. And that, but through those possibilities that you reach out to, you learn something. You go, damn. now um now these people don't fuck with me or now i got a black eye broken nose or now i can't go here

no more i've learned let me not do that and then whatever it is you know and some people learn some people don't but the mind is just presenting possibilities it is not a factual thing until you act on it so and that that is what i've learned i used to think that people hated me i would even even in the music industry i'd be like i don't want to go to that party because they're going to hate me and that's just my mind presenting a possibility that i'm accepting a possibility that i'm accepted as my reality and then I act on it. But it's not real. And I know a lot of people suffer from this.

I believe that most people suffer from it. But the mind just presents possibilities. It goes, hey, here's what we're working with. Here's what it is. I'll let you pick, though, because you're the person, you're the soul, the spirit in this. But here's all the possibilities. You can cling on to the negative ones, the positive was,

or you can just say, fuck all this. And I can give you a whole new list of them, whatever. But that's what I've learned. It's like we all know that the, best thing that you could do for any kind of conflict that you're in is just to say, all right, fuck this, walk away for 24 hours. Yeah. And then come back to this.

I agree. A lot of times you can't do that. Like that option doesn't appear to present itself in your head. But I mean, like, I've been in that position a million times where getting into a conflict with like a business partner or somebody you have an issue with and then you just step away from it, come back to it. And then all of a sudden you can see it without the fucking red clouds of anger, sort of like being over the situation.

You know, once all that's removed, then you can sort of see that this is not as life or death as it seemed, then things can be a lot smoother. Definitely. People need to learn how to calm down and just approach situations and just relax, I guess, especially when it comes to people that you love. You know, just step back.

Like you said, I think that's a very, very beneficial way to handle, you know, any confrontational issues. Because, yeah, you know, when you take that break, you're always going to, find your peace and then when you approach it again you're you again the real you spending a grand a week on hypnotherapy i was i was that i just did my first session a couple like a week ago oh really yeah oh yeah yeah hypnotherapy um i was doing it in 2019 but they don't they don't actually hypnotize you did you get hypnotized to call it hypnotized would be kind of weird like they did like

these countdowns and this sort of like visualization things and then all of a sudden he's talking to me about like stuff that like sort of happened to me as a child and stuff in terms of like, you know, issues with my parents and stuff like that. And I'm just finding myself in like a much more emotional state. I got tears dumping down my eyes. I didn't feel hypnotized in the sense of like what you see on TV, I guess. But it definitely felt like it opened me up a lot to be able to sort of like imagine the stuff that I was working on in a different way. And I feel quite affected by it, although I'm not sure if I 100% got the effect. Because I feel like I'm such a sort of like thinking person. It's hard for me to like completely turn that off.

Like some people might be able to. I know what you're talking about. I think hypnotherapy, like, I mean, for me, I didn't get that feeling either. When I left, I was like, oh, my God. But the woman that I was having my sessions with, she brought a lot of things to like that I didn't know her there. So like I said, my, you know, I have issues with the mother of my child and, and, you know, just a lot of years and years of shit that's been piled up.

And of course, people naturally point the finger. I say it's her. She says it's me. And, you know, we've handled situations irrationally, you know, on both sides. but I never really understood why I handled certain situations the way that I did. And I never even questioned it. I just thought that that's how it should have been. My way was right, and I did what any logical person would have done.

But that was not true. When I went to hypnotherapy, I, like my mom and dad, they used to fight a lot. They used to always fight, physically fight in front of me and my brother. my sisters, and police would come, you know, from time to time. And I picked up on a lot of that. I learned how to love through violence. And I guess I also learned from my parents and my household that if you love somebody and they're not doing what you want them to do, you get physical.

with them to make them learn, to make them understand to get your point across. If they're doing something that bothers you and they're not understanding verbally, you get physical. They didn't actually say that, but this is just subconsciously what I picked up on. And I took that with me throughout my life in so many situations and relationships. Now, I've never been, like, I've never done. I've never, like, beat up a woman or anything like that. But, you know, I've had some petty scuffles of just,

Like, give me that. No, no, give me that. Get you. Like, shit like that. But, and I've also learned our way, doing shit like that, like, get away. That one little move, get away, you're done. If she, you know, if she wants to be petty and call the cops, that's assault. Push your way to get her off of your cell phone or try to get her away, whatever. Assault, you know. It's as small as that, and that's all it takes.

And I've learned that the hard way. And, yeah, I had to get to the body. bottom of who I was, and this hypnotherapist pulled that out. And I realized, like, yo, I do have traumas that I need to learn to get over and let go and get past. And I just had to start working on that. So she bought it to light, but I knew the journey was only beginning. Right. Like, I interviewed a poker player recently who he was describing his experience with hypnotherapy, and he was saying that, you know, a lot of times he would be playing and he would raise and then the other person would raise and he would know in his thinking brain okay this guy

appears to be extremely strong in this hand i should probably fold or i should get away from this hand but he was just finding himself being too aggressive in those situations where all of a sudden he would dump all his money into the pot and you know waste his money yeah and through hypnotherapy he was basically telling me that like he figured out that a lot of that really came back to his childhood where he felt like he was you know being bullied picked on he didn't like the feeling of somebody trying to be bigger and tougher than him. So he's still, as an adult, an extremely talented guy who's incredibly good at this game, but he still was holding on to some of that energy from his childhood,

and it was completely impacting his career right now and how much money he's able to make. And, you know, once you draw that connection and you realize, like, oh, I'm acting out and doing things illogically now because of the trauma experienced as a kid, and if you can create that connection and sort of give yourself something to remind yourself of or to fall back on when you do find yourself sort of making foolish decisions or whatever. I think that that is incredibly important. And a lot of people, honestly, from like who don't necessarily have the resources that maybe two people like you and I have, they might never be able to get to the point of being able to really identify these triggers or things that are making them.

And also those same triggers for a lot of people when it comes back to like real violence. the the the the the the the way you lash out there might be the thing that lands you in jail and fucks your whole fucking life up you know yeah and and this is and this is the um going off of what you said like acting out in a situation if you're in public or whatever and you know you you do something that puts you in jail this is where i think self-love comes into play and everyone you know generically says they love themselves you know and they do i believe to a certain level because they're them and they don't want to die. But I don't believe they truly, truly love themselves.

You know, you know, when you, you go into some people's homes and their homes are always clean. The carpet's clean. Take your shoes off. And they lived in their home just long as you live in yours. But then, you know, maybe in your home or someone else's home, it's just not clean. It's just like McDonald's bags everywhere, you know, stains on the carpet, whatever, and smells like dog shit on whatever.

And that's just the vibe of their home. And they still love their home, but you can tell when someone really, really, like, loves their home where they're like, I don't want this to get dirty. When you come in my house, take your shoes off because this is my house. This is my world. This is my cave. This is where I exist at. This needs to be the experience that I want it to be because it's mine. And I feel like that with my human existence now in my body, I've learned to love myself a lot more.

So I don't want to go to jail So I'm aware now when I'm in situations Where I'm like, look this two motherfucker doing this shit Man, I'm fucking knocked their ass I'm like There's no need to do that Because if I knock his ass out Or whether I succeed or not

It could lead to police coming Or what if they knock me out Now what if my fucking Jaws crooked for the rest of my life now What if this or this or that happens And then you go Is that even significant to the greater good For my life?

You know in the end Am I going to be like when I'm old Like, I'm glad I beat that guy up in the parking lot. Like, I'm not even going to give a fuck about that. But if my jaw's crooked, they're going, Grandpa, why is your jaw crooked and you're 83 years old? Like, oh, fuck on, I was in my 30s. I've gotten to fight this guy. Like, I don't want to, these things are not important.

They feel important in the moment, but that's why it's just important to love yourself and also just learn to just fucking relax. Like, I don't want to fight nobody. I don't want to do anything stupid like that unless it's absolutely fucking necessary. Especially you in your logical mind knowing that the difference. like those two paths like when your brain is fully like clouded by anger and like the there's the decision you can make to sort of just walk away and there's the decision you can make to attack this dude and you know that the potential ramification from attacking somebody is the worst thing that

we could pretty much think of on earth which is getting locked up yes even for a day or two let's be real it's about as bad as it gets on earth yeah it is it is nothing worse than that yeah and and your brain is so clouded with rage that you might choose to go in the opposite direction people like i remember reading about uh alcohol one time and somebody was just saying that the thing about alcohol isn't that it makes you do crazy things but it narrows your worldview to such an extent that somebody bumping into you in the bar might it you know that that disrespect might seem like the only thing that exists in the world so that potential of getting locked up or getting your ass beat at the bar by him and his 10 friends or whatever all those things kind of go away and you just focus on the

soul that thing right there somebody bumped into me i got my drink spilled on my jeans i'm angry as fuck i'm gonna while out like alcohol does that yeah yeah but that's really bad for your future like ideally you want to be thinking with a full picture not just this moment no i i agree i agree and i truly believe that with self-love one of the outcomes and the one of the outcomes of self-love is you're just naturally going to clean your life up you're gonna you're gonna change some of the decisions that you've been making because you know that it could potentially lead to something that is not working in your favor you're going to change the people you hang around with and because when you and when you work on yourself you just it just happens you know what I'm saying it just happens like if

you were to go buy a brand new car right now fucking Bugatti or whatever it is and you work so hard for it you're going to be like you'll get to fuck away like yo like yo like this is like yo like you like you don't like this is my shit like anybody just can't be all up in here eating anything, you know, you ain't whatever, like you're going to be protective over it. But when it's something that you don't give a fuck about, when people don't put work into themselves, they're making stupid decisions left and right because they're going, what the fuck? They're subconsciously, they're going, why the fuck would I care about?

What the fuck happens? I ain't shit, nothing like, it doesn't matter. And you're training your mind and yourself to just be that way, 24-7 or in certain moments. I just really got to learn to love yourself because then, and stay balanced. because I truly believe that in all situations, you'll be very grounded and see things clearly in real time for what they really truly are.

100%. I wanted to ask you about this. What is it about your personality or what you're trying to do as an artist that makes you want to basically take the things that are the most traumatic, the most difficult for you to deal with and then make songs about that

in terms of your parents, and the abuse that you witnessed as a kid in terms of your current or past relationship with your baby mama. And just, you know, like that just really stands out to me because you hear a lot of rappers say sort of like crass things about their baby mommas or even about their parents, like, abuse when they're a kid. But it feels like for you, there's like kind of something special going on there where you might not be comfortable making a song about that thing. But it feels like that's part of your mission is I have to talk about this and document this because I would almost be kind of cowardly if I didn't. Yeah, I feel like if I were to just portray rich, bitches, the holes, the glamorous life, look how cool I am, look at where I'm at that you're not. People are not able to bridge the gap sometimes when they see things, they go, of course they're going to want all that stuff, but it's like me, I want people to know that I'm human. Like everybody, I guess on the side where the grass is technically greener and under the matrix terms, you know, we're all normal people.

And some people try to, they don't want that bridge to exist. So they're like, I'm over here. I'm popping. You ain't me. I went through traumas. I had, you know, fucked up childhood, but you'll never fucking know. Now look at me, bling. Look at me with these bitches.

Look at me with this. And it leads people under an impression that maybe they. can just continue, you know, staying stuck in a cycle that they're currently in, and they're going to get to that over there. You know what I'm saying? And I want people to know, like, like, yo, I went through all this shit, too. You're not alone, for one. You're not alone.

And you can make it out. You know, it doesn't have to be the end because, you know, I'm still growing as a person. I've come a long way, and it doesn't have to be the end. I've had situations where it felt like it was the end, you know, growing up where I was like, oh, there's no way I'm bouncing back from this. You know, there's no way that this is going to have a positive outcome. My life just sucks. And I know there's millions of people who feel like that.

So I want to let them know they're not alone. And I feel like it's my job, my self-given purpose to relay that message to them because I want everybody to benefit from being here on Earth. I don't want them to all think that, yo, your shit's fucked up. Well, yeah, it's going to stay that way. You ain't like me. Watch me bling. Like, I don't want that.

I want to be like, yo, yeah, check that. Oh, so did I. Like, you can get through that. You can work through it. And I also like setting a tone where I'm transparent. I believe if more people are transparent, then I feel like the world would be a better place. If people are just honest and transparent,

I don't ever want to go anywhere where people just think life was all good with me. And like, fuck that. I ain't know fucking, I wasn't born as some rich prick who just had shit like that. Like, no, dude, like, I understand. And, like, yeah, I just don't want to be the person to just hiding my traumas.

Yeah. Because I know personally it's inspired, like other people, like 50 cent M&M's traumas inspired me to let me know that, yo, they went through what they went through and I could identify with some of the things they were saying. I'm like, damn, that, like literally Eminem 50 cent alone are the reason I dropped out, but the reason I didn't give up myself, the reason I learned to go so hard for myself. You know what I'm saying? Like, they inspired me, but they're talking about it.

Trauma's left and right. All the shit. They never like, I mean, 50, you know, he kind of bragged and boasted a little bit, but he has a dark story. Man, they're fucking almost fucking died, you know, and imagine if he didn't tell anybody that. For real. But there's, you know, there's kind of a different type of tale right there because we all know that like getting shot and not dying in rap music carries a certain level of cachet.

It's cooler. I mean, it sounds, it sounds cooler. But those things that you're talking about are things that are probably like universal. relatable to a lot of rap fans. Like your parents weren't perfect as a kid and you're dealing with some shit with your baby mama. I mean, that's just kind of... Yeah.

That's mega relatable. But even like little things where, like, when 50 said, like, woke up the next morning and they didn't stole my bike. Yeah, yeah. That made me feel a little bit better about the fact that somebody that took some shit from me.

Because I've been in that situation too. Yeah. Woke up the next morning of these niggas that stole my bike. You listen to a lot of rap songs and you would never think that a lot of people had taken an L. Yeah, yeah.

And I remember around that time of my life that, like, I forget what it was, but somebody had stolen something from me, and it just made me feel better about it to be like, everybody takes out from time and time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I feel like when someone's honest, you know, about their path that they've been on,

yeah, it reminds the people who are next to come, you know, the younger generation, like, yo, I was you, and you could be me and even take it, you know, a million steps further. So it's like, yeah, your life is never really, I don't know, I don't know all situations. of life but most of us I feel like it's never really anything where it's stunted our entire life forever you know we can we can find a way out um I remember last time we did the interview that you seemed

a little bit like not sure if you should even bother to keep putting out albums because you were just sort of like you know like when I do these music videos they go crazy and then I feel like the albums don't get as much attention in comparison and you pretty much stayed true to that sense because you haven't dropped the album since then but meanwhile the music videos are still going crazy Yeah. What's sort of your thought process on all that? I still feel the exact same way. Dude, the fucking music industry moves so fast now.

It's like a little microverse where you just step away for five minutes, come back. There's 20 new rappers. And shit's just happy. Like, what the fuck, dude? I just left for a second. And now all this shit's, and especially when you drop something as well, you drop something. And you're like, ah, my life's work. Put it out.

Two weeks later, where's the new shit dropped again? And then you're like, you motherfucker. Because I know you see your fans saying that shit. Like, when are you going to put something new on? And you're like, God, just that. I hate that shit. And it wasn't like that before. Like when I'm telling you, like when I first came out, like 2010, 11, 12, 13, I'll drop one video, two videos a year, torn around the whole fucking world.

Everyone's saying the shit, no one gave a fuck about how long it took. Now it's like, God, damn, I need to drop some every fucking four days. And I just can't do it. Right. I don't want to do it. I don't like my shit. Like I put a lot of work and effort into what I do. And I don't like that if I made a fucking 17 song album that shit's just gone in fucking four days.

Because by putting on music videos, you're really emphasizing that one song to the, to the furthest extreme. I'm going to make a whole little mini movie to this fucking song. So that you'll really pay attention to it. But then by definition, if you put out even a 50s. song project, by definition, the majority of the songs, you're not going to be emphasizing them as much as you can. Yes, you could put out videos to a bunch of them, but... No one ever really does. It's not... It's not... Yeah, I mean, it's just not... It's a different

thing. Here's what I've learned. If I make one music video today, you know, put all my effort to it with, you know, make sure the song is the best to my abilities, I put it out. And I make an album. And then let's just say that next week, I are a month later, I put that album out, they're going to have the same reactions buzz-wise. So as relevant as I'd be off of that one song and how much my fan base could it, my fan base could potentially expand larger

because of that one song versus what the album does. And it's not even matter of like, if the album's whack or whatever, it's just sometimes that's just how shit is. You could drop one fucking song. It happens all the time with me where I drop one song and I'm like, damn. I feel and I can see in the streets and I go places, people are just like, that shit,

you just dropped fucking three days ago, dog. Hot. I'm in a restaurant just eating some time. And then a dude comes up and serves you, like, you hear that on the radio? And you're like, dude, I know what's going on. And I'm like, wow, that one fucking song. You drop an album. You be going places if you just be like, who are you?

What's, what? And it's not about, you know, getting recognized, but it's just more. I just feel like sometimes it can be wasted effort. If I was in a mainstream spotlight, it might be different, you know. I'm not, I don't have the major machine by me, I mean, behind me and all that. So, you know, I don't know what it's like. When Drake drops an album, his experience might be different, you know. But in this, I guess, super indie underground hip-hop realm that I'm in,

shit just don't feel comfortable when I do an album. Yeah, and it feels like a lot of the reason why people, people drop albums is a money I guess and then be the sort of validation of I'm an artist this is how much I sold this is what my first week numbers were these are other people I got in the you know it feels more like a marketing tactic to sort of contextualize why you exist right there and then and you kind of feel like a lot of those people wouldn't be doing that if they didn't have those incentives like yeah there's a lot of like the megos I listen to their album.

It doesn't really feel like this album exists for like creative purposes. This album exists because if Migos put this album out and it sells well, then that lets the world know that Migos are still relevant rappers. And if they put this album out and it does bad, then it kind of says the opposite. And it doesn't even feel like there's any, there's no mincing of words there because, I mean,

they put out the album in like three different crazy playlist to get as many streams. They can't do the merch collab stuff, the way that they used to juice up the sales. So they got to do all this other different crazy shit. And we've seen that over and over. over and over the years. It's interesting to see you be sort of like post album, although I don't really believe that you're

gonna be able to hold off forever. I think at some point. I'm gonna, there will be another, there will be something, guaranteed. There will be just, I just don't feel like doing it right now. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I find it funny as well, like how some people, they do make albums

for the reasons of like trying to, you know, get number one and show those numbers, flaunt those numbers. And it's just like, I mean, I, I'm not in that world, so I don't know what the full, I don't, I don't understand it. You know what I saying? I used to almost be caught off in that. Like when, when I release things, I, like, I don't care about the numbers.

Like, I don't care how many it's sold, because I just know that it was me. I just know, like, hey, I did what I do. And I believe in myself to know that, you know, me doing me is going to put food on the table. You know, and, you know, it may fluctuate, but I'm not going to live. let me down. So, and I, and I, and I think I have a good enough relationship with my fans now. So when I put stuff out, you know, um, you know, I try not to get sucked up in the numbers too much from like, you know, this got this many and this mean, because then it's going to like do a thing where I feel like I got to keep topping it. And I've been in that, I've been in that cycle before. Like, fuck, I got to top

the next one. If this one doesn't top that one, that means I suck and I'm not as good as I was at this time. It's like, dude, just create, just create. It's going to be what it's going to be. you're going to drop some shit that gets X amount of views this time you're going to drop some shit that does this next time then you're going to drop some shit that does this next time then you're going to do five more that's not going to do that one and then you're going to do it it. It's just art, you know, just do it. And when I see so many artists sometimes when I see I can tell

they may be struggling to try and do this and as the fan, I'm just looking. I'm like, I don't even think they need to try that hard because I don't think they understand how much we the fans just love them so they could literally just get on a track and fart, and I'm just going to love it, you know, no matter what, because I love them, you know? So that's why I think it's important to just focus on being the most authentic version of yourself as an artist,

because then you don't really have to play the numbers game. You're not trying to sell yourself and you're just doing you, you know? But it's crazy because there's certain, like, I know you and I came up, like, in the era of the album. Like, when I think about my favorite rappers of all time, it's like there's certain albums. Like I couldn't tell you what my favorite song off reasonable doubt is, but I could tell you that's one of my favorite albums of all time because the overall project was the thing that meant something to me. But it's also like with the way that you've been doing things, it's a little bit more realistic in a lot of ways because we know that a lot of fans just don't consume music that way, that they will listen to a fucking Spotify playlist and they'll watch videos on YouTube.

But the idea of listening to an album from beginning to end still makes sense to me, but it feels like it doesn't make sense to a lot of fans. Yeah, yeah. No, and it may not. They'll, you know, be like, put out an album and then they only go listen to fucking three songs and pick their fate, you know. So I'm making sure that when I do, I know this for a fact. The work I've been putting in over the past three years, when I do my next concert, I'm shutting it down. Really? Here's why. They're going to know every fucking song because every single song I put out has, you know, 10 million plus views over the past few years.

versus, you know, if I had made an album, they would have only known the single that I shot a music video to. So I'm making sure, you know, I got about, I got about like eight hot ones where I'm like, yo, all these videos did well. When I show up, you, like, they're going to notice it because I put so much into those singles individually. But also like it kind of goes along with the type of music you make. Your music is so dense that it kind of like needs that attention, that spotlight put it. on it whereas it's like if you listen to 15 hops and songs in a row that is going to be so so dense

so lyrical so much stuff crammed in that I do feel like your music kind of like does well when it's allowed to like breathe by itself I agree too much no I will even say that a lot of houses spit in the ribby to it's a lot dude it's just like I wouldn't be able to do it

I don't want to like but yeah hearing it's spaced out I think I think that is an amazing formula for me you know so So yeah, I'm not denying that. For sure. Oh, yeah. I wanted to ask this question, too.

I don't want to get super personal or anything, but why did you decide to turn the comments off on the one video about the situation with your ex? Because I love her, and I didn't want any of my fans to attack her or say anything. And I know that, like, you know, me being famous, I'm used to hate comments. It's nothing to me. people call me corny, wag, he's bullshit, he fell off all day, I'm used to it.

But her being a, I've done enough damage, you know, in the past with the songs that I've made, aimed towards her. And I just didn't want to contribute. I know, like, a normal person, when they see people talking about them online, they'll be like this all day. What did they say? I can't believe they think. And they'll literally read all 18,000 comments. And then they'll get off feeling suicidal.

and they'll you know it's really gonna it's really gonna impact the way they they move you know and I didn't want to do that to her I didn't I didn't I just wanted it to be a message to her and that's it you know so I turn the comments off I respect that why do you cast the like mega like whiteest looking girl I ever seen in my life you know what my my ex-girlfriend is even the most mega even wider so I cast it a very humble looking white girl compared to what the fuck my ex really is like i like it's it's a yeah like as far as just the she's boozy like she's boogey like she's boogey to the max that's what's uh i like that um okay also i was listening to that song alone with me yeah it felt like you were kind of like that's a song kind of about your

self doubt largely yeah and there was one like you're going to war with like your anxiety like how would you describe that that character that you're at war that It was my thoughts. It was those thoughts. It was, like I said, my thoughts presenting all the possibilities, but me accepting them and believing them, you know what I say? We just really listening to them and considering that those might be factual. So, yeah, it was just me talking to my thoughts or my thoughts talking to me pretty much

fucking just ripping the fuck out of me. Right, because I think, like, a lot of people, like, that's a very, relatable thing that not a lot of people really communicate in rap is that like like i had somebody said to me one time i somebody put out a diss song about him and i said to him i'm like how you feel about that song he goes that ain't shit he's like can you imagine the shit that goes through my head all day and i was like i guess that's true because if i were to write a fucking diss song about myself i could probably do way more damage than anybody else could do yep yeah because you know all you know what you're really insecure about you know all that stuff and yeah i thought it would be um you know i was i was

inspired by, you know, a few different things. Of course, you know, the guilty conscience by Dr. Drey and Eminem. That was one of the inspirations behind it, you know. I didn't necessarily say, I want to make a song like that, but in the process of me wondering how I can make a song about my thoughts. I'm thinking like, you know, that kind of inspires me. In the music video, The Mask also, and it's inspired by the movie The Mask. And what else was there?

Kind of the genie from Aladdin as well, almost just the way I was popping up. You saw this music video? Yeah, the way I was just popping up, I wanted to be almost a character that I wanted my thoughts to be like a character that's mixed with the mask and the genie from Aladdin, just like, but like sinister, you know? I like it. Yeah. But the other thing I found really interesting was, you know, because to a lot of us, we kind of assume, or for me, at least somebody who's like paying attention to your career, it's like, Hopson seems like he's doing great. Like it's fascinating seeing somebody be able to be successful without necessarily having to really even like touch. mainstream rap too often or whatever, but you say in that song, you'll never be like Kendrick

or Cole. Yeah. And I was like, oh, right. Like, of course at some point he has to think about his legacy and how it fits into the larger hip-hop landscape. Is that something that sort of enters into your brain often? Yeah, it does. I think, I feel like that enters everybody's brain as an emcee.

You know, we all think that. And especially, like Kendrick and Cole, they're like the, you know, the main two that I always mention it as like within the mainstream realm of like the lyrical ones you know the ones who really you know are on some emce shit you know they're used as examples or like proof that lyrical rap is still alive and do and does well which is is very fair because they probably are like two of the best selling artists but then it is kind of odd to hear that and then be like well that's not the only thing that makes them successful obviously they're successful because people love them their character this brand that they've built because there are a shitload of

rappers who are, you know, probably better or just as good lyrically that don't necessarily get that same level of attention. Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. You know, but I don't necessarily feel that way anymore because I look at it this way. You know, because I know that the effort it takes to be someone like Kendrick Lamar, you know, as far as like the spotlight he's in, you know, that's not a thing like, and to maintain that, it's not, you know, when you're in a successful position like that or any you know when you have fame and you got you know fans it's it's something you have to water consistently you know you can't just do a thing and just say fuck everything i don't care like you got to to get where he's at i know that it wasn't an accident you know i know that it was a

coincidental i know that this is something in his mind that he has worked towards and he wanted it you know potentially to be exactly how it is you know and have that outcome and i every man has their own idea of how they want to live their life and all that and I don't water that seed that specific seed of like being here there and doing this and working with that person I'm I'm like a I guess if it were to be using the using a marvel characters as an example I'm like Deadpool I'm not a part of any coalition not a part of the X-Men not a part of the Avengers I just do my thing, not as big as Iron Man. I do my thing and I do it well and people know me, but I'm not Iron Man. I'm not Captain America and I don't want to be. I like doing things the way that I do it.

You know, I like, I like the, and I've learned to embrace it because yeah, man, I used to beat myself up all the time going, damn, I'm not in a position. Like, I'm not them. I'm not them. I'm not them. But, you know, I can relate to that too. Yeah. It's like, you know, I'm probably never going to get the accolades of Charlemagne gets, you know? But, but like, you could focus on that, or I could focus on, well, like, well, my business is still doing pretty well, regardless. Yeah, amazingly well. And I'm happy about the content I'm making and stuff, but it always will kind of nag at

you in your brain, like, am I going to ever get the props that I maybe feel like I deserve, especially as a rapper where it's, like, inherently competitive? Like, I don't think about Charlemagne. Yeah, yeah. But, like, you kind of do things sometimes of, like, am I getting the amount of respect that I deserve compared to my peers. Yeah. And I, well, I will let you know, yes, I'm aware of what Charlemagne is and I'm aware. And I know this not, I'm not listening to try to like, no, but I, but I get it and even, but we are enough, dude. We got people who know us, you know, when, like,

they, like, we've done it. We've done the thing. You know, there's always, there's always levels you could take it. I always wonder, like, who did Michael Jackson go? Fuck that guy's good. Like, damn, I can't do it. Who was Michael? Jackson doing that over you know what I'm saying was was Michael Jordan going fuck the way that dude like I don't want to talk about it probably because I want to put no shine on him but that motherfucker got it you know what I'm saying and but we just see Michael Jackson's like you're the fucking greatest and but you know it's just that may not be the case of so many amazing people out there who

do amazing things and get notoriety for it you just can't look at the next man you know you just I think there's always somebody who can make it look bigger or you know they're making more money in it, but it doesn't mean you're not doing it good. You know, it like it just doesn't. But I didn't understand that concept. I never understood that. I was literally going, damn, I got $2 million right now in my bank account. I can travel around the world freely, do whatever I want.

Everywhere I go, I get recognized. I'm getting millions of views here and there. I'm making fucking, you know, $100,000 a month off of just doing nothing. Fuck my life, man. I ain't like Drake, shit. This shit sucks, man. Look at Drake, man. He would DJ Colin on the fucking yacht.

Like, but then like, come on. Like, get to rewind to yourself, you know, it's been a while for you. But rewind to yourself like 15 years ago. And it's like you would have been so thankful to have one percent of what you have now. I do. Exactly. Exactly. And that's what matters.

That's the part that matters. Once you get, you know, once you cross over those milestones that you're in this world now with all these other successful people, you start to lose sight of what, you know, who you are and where you started from. And I don't, like, I don't need to be like those other guys, you know what I'm saying? And if I want to, you know, then I'll take whatever steps it takes to, you know, do those things and try to make it come to a reality. But, dude, yeah, it's about where you started from. Me, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, I would have killed to be me right. I would have one percent of you right now.

Yeah, you know, just have 10 grand of the world. bank from rapping would have been I would have thought I was Drake the old me would have been like yo hops in from 2021 you are Drake what would Drake do differently than you but me being here going shit about um a hundred million dollars differently but I'm like does it but does that even matter though does he even spend that much because you probably couldn't spend 100 million I couldn't I wouldn't want to you know I couldn't and I can't even spend what I already got the millions are like I can't spend it of course with time but there's no it's not it makes it happier

yeah unless I spend it on bullshit but which I don't like but I can't spend all this money just going traveling and staying in you know Airbnbs or whatever like it'll take a while you know what I'm saying but it's it's enough it's enough and I think human beings sometimes we get we get caught in this fucking

like world pool of like trying to be better than the next man but and we never stopped to ask is it enough like what am I chasing here? like, dude, I'm chasing happiness now. That's what I want. I'm not chasing.

I don't want to be, I don't want to be Kendrick or Cole. You know, I don't want to do that. I want to be me and I'm happy with me now. And I just want to be happy. I just want to do things that I like that I enjoy and be my truest self, you know? Yeah, my therapist said that to me at one point when I was kind of talking about being stressed out. I've been going so hard doing all this content, et cetera. And they're just kind of like, is it a money thing?

Like you chase an, is there a certain dollar amount that you think that you're going to hit that's going to make you happy? And I was like, no, like, it's not about the money. Like, that's just kind of, I look at the money at the end of the month and it's kind of like unrelated. Like, I feel like I have to go this hard because, like, because why? Because if it's not about the money, then you have to sort of start digging into your personality and say, like, well, what is it about myself that makes me feel like I need to do more, have more or whatever? Like, I mean, it can be coming from a positive place, which I feel like for me mostly is because I have a fucking. chip on my shoulder where I just want to do as much great shit as I can. Yeah.

But, you know, it's worth digging into your motives. It is. I think, and some people don't do that. Some people are just going after a thing. And then that when they, and if they ever find out what it is, it might just end with, like, clout. Yeah. I eat ego. I want it to be the coolest person in the room, which doesn't mean anything at the end of the

fucking day because, like, I mean, me and you both probably know so many cool people who, like, they're just people. You know, it's just the, it's just the, it's just the person. perception, whatever, it doesn't mean anything at the end of the fucking day, you know, to do that. So I'm, yeah, I've, I always ask why. The why in everything is so important. Why do I want to be more famous if that was the case. Why? So like, and you really got to be able to find out that why, because it might give you an answer that's ridiculous where it's like, you, and you may spend all your fucking years just chasing after something that doesn't satisfy you in the end

you're going to be like damn i hate my fucking life did all that chasing that trying to reach this and i'm just left here with just feeling empty and bland and like i wasted all my fucking years so that's how i feel when i look at instagram and i'll see a girl getting fucking 10 designer handbags for her birthday from from a dude or buying it for herself or whatever and i'm just thinking like like i mean you got a closet full of very expensive handbags but like what is this all leading up to like how much vanity are you going to have to have before you realize that this shit is kind of a fucking waste of your time and money but some people are so vapid that that basically is like you know they're sort of keeping themselves satiated they probably go at night go to bed at

night thinking i'm happy because i have 10 chenelle bags and i'll be happier once i have two more and that's why i'm going to go to work all week yeah you know i i do believe the universe will will kick us on our asses eventually, you know? And people like that, it may take a little longer. And, you know, they may be getting away with it, especially these girls when they're, you know, where it seems like the cool thing to do. But I believe with time, the universe is like,

the universe is just winding up that punch. Like, oh, yeah, get those Chanel bags. Okay, cool. Oh, you're 38? BOW! Watch this now. Damn, shit. What did that do now? Oh, it's just, they're just in the closet collecting dust.

Oh, no one even cares on Instagram no more. shit you got a wrinkle no one get god damn what are you gonna do i i told this story on the podcast the day but i i think it's worth it is like i was at the house smoking weed feeling good and i'm watching this fucking documentary about the congo and i'm just you know like they're just learning about there and just seeing the poverty and how poor they are and everything and i'm just watching it just thinking like what the fuck is the solution for this like like seeing the way these people live is so sad etc and then i go out to smoke outside and i start flipping through youtube and i start flipping through tube and I see a clip of academics talking about going to the club in Miami and how this kid,

this like billionaire kid, spent $80,000 on two different tables at two different nightclubs, basically trying to impress academics. And then I go back in and I'm watching the documentary about the Congo again. And I'm just thinking, these Americans are fucking crazy, bro. Like I'm offended that there are people who spend money like this when there are people like this dying of starvation on the other side of the planet, bro. It's ridiculous. This is what, man, this is why I like living out of the fucking country.

So when I was in Thailand, Gucci don't matter out there. When I was in Phuket walking around, you know, you got people fucking raising chickens trying to, you know, farm and shit, all that cool shit. Like if you actually try to walk down the street with some fucking Louis Vuitton, whatever, you know no one's going to give a fuck. They wouldn't even know if it was real or not. Yeah, they wouldn't even. There's so much bootleg shit that they don't even comprehend the idea of like a copyright.

Yeah, yeah. It would just feel stupid. Like you better off just walking barefoot or just in some sandals and riding your little fucking moped, whatever, with no shirt or whatever. Like it's it's just like it doesn't matter out there. It literally doesn't matter. Instinctually it doesn't matter. When you get there, like when I got there, I'm like, shit, the clothes that I was wearing don't feel like the clothes that I should be wearing. Like it's a, it's like nature speaking to you like really remind you like, what the fuck are you doing? Right. And, and, but here it's this fucking, it's this simulation. It's this fucking matrix where it's just like everyone truly. truly believes that like there's some type of fulfillment and there's some type of

like happiness is at the other side of buying that cool thing getting that certain cloud and it may be temporarily I believe you can get temporarily high off of it but it ain't long term it's just a short fucking high but I don't even know dude I I dislike that part about especially like just the entertainment industry in general just like yeah look at me look at me look at like honestly like I'm

dude I'm I'm so I'm I'm over that shit. Like I wear, I just want to state this. I wear cheap, fake shit. I enjoy the culture of like, you know, I wear, I wear earrings and I got this chain. My shit. All this jewelry I got cost less than $50 and I'm going to keep it that way. And I'm going to constantly shop on Amazon and get everything for $15 fucking

because I really am that guy when it comes down to my bars, my craft. So no one can really pull my car. And I don't feel that way. And that's where the true, you know, that's where the gold really. is. It's not in what I'm wearing and all that. I wear fake shit. It doesn't matter. And if someone ever comes up to me and says, you wear a fake shit. I want to go and? Am I less cooler now?

Or what the fuck happened? The same girls that all the girls are hang out with know I wear fake shit. No one gives a fuck. It's just a fucking like, I never asked to be judged by the clothes that I wear. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's not a, it's stupid. Dude, everybody needs to wear fake shit. No one's going to know. No one's going to, I promise you.

I mean, some people can. If someone, no, here's the way. If someone goes out of their way to find out if your shit's real or fake, cut that person out of your fucking life. Right. I dare someone in this room to question my earrings. Please question my earrings. My $7 earrings from the middle of the mall.

Please question it. You will never be, I will never come around you again because I'm going to question your values and who you are in life. you know what I'm saying? Why was someone do that? Right. Like, what about my personality? I'm a great fucking guy. Let's go out. Let's go fucking, let's go do some funnish. Let's go, let's go to the fucking

part. Let's go ride bikes. Don't get it out of my life. Yeah. Like, I don't like, I don't really get that part of rap music where it's like the intent of the rapper to sort of like constantly flex on their audience who has like 1% of what

they got. Yeah, yeah. I don't like that either. I'm a victim of it. I've done it. I've done it. And I think it's been like instilled in our minds that that's what's cool. That's what rap is. And that's part of, you know, I struggle with having mental growth and still being a rapper. Like, especially the type of rapper that I am and what I grew up on because I'm,

because it's all about bragging and boasting. Like a lot of it, it still base the foundation of it is that the overall vibe is, I'm cooler than you You ain't like me You ain't got it like me You probably never be like me I'll fuck your bitch I can't fuck your bitch

I will fuck your bitch If your bitch see me She don't want to leave your ass It's all that And in reality As grown man Like I've been through stuff

I've been cheated on I have cheated on women As well in the past You know my younger days None of it is cool I don't want to fuck your bitch I just want you to be in a relationship I would rather just leave this

thing that you guys got going on. And I don't want you thinking about, if you are thinking about the fact that I could maybe take your girl with me, I don't want you to think about that. That's horrible. I would hate for you to figure that out about her. Yeah, dude. Yeah. I don't want anybody to be troubled, man.

Right. I don't want nobody to do it, especially like, I don't want, I don't want to make someone be like, man, I'll never, he can fuck my bitch. I'll never be like him. He's just so cool. Like, I don't want to make no one feel that way. Right. I don't want no one trying to make me.

me feel that way. I want to make people know, like, let them know like, yo, you could do this shit too. Like all this shit in life, everything. Nature's like the universe has provided us with all of the, you know, the elements that we need to create

the life that we imagine. So I don't want to fuck you up and cause more psychological damage by me flexing on you, showing you what you'll never be and constantly reminding you every song, every album, you ain't like me, bitch. You ain't got it like me. These niggas can't do it like me. You can do it like me. You can do it like me.

And the thing is too, though, is that a lot of a lot of what makes me, me, or makes you, you is not necessarily our choice. I didn't pick where I was born. I didn't pick my parents. I didn't pick the fact that my parents are, you know, relatively civilized, well-mannered people and not crazy drug addicts or whatever. You know, I didn't pick the fact that, you know, I would be born able to communicate well. A lot of people I know. could never do the shit that I do just because of purely situational shit of how we were born. And if anything, like, you know, I could never imagine in a million years wanting to, like, address somebody from the projects and say, like, you could never be what I am now.

It's like, if anything, it's like I consider myself just extremely lucky to have been born the person I was. And granted, like, there's a lot of elbow grease in there too. Yeah. But a lot of, like, there's a lot of people who are incredibly talented. and I know who are sitting in jail for 20 years because they got in the fight outside of club one night. You know, it's like to constantly call attention to that just feels like the last thing that you would want to be doing

for the person that you're trying to become. Yeah, no, I agree, man. I agree. It's all hip hop. Like there's a, like I love hip hop and hate it at the same time sometimes. But it's, yeah, man. It's weird sometimes.

Weird. It's very weird. to that you know most rappers including myself um just play this game of i'm better than you and i still do it and i know i still will do it because it's instilled in me but i do want to let go of it but even let go it's scary because if i let go of it what the fuck's my music going to sound like right well probably kind of like what it sounds like now where you're just opening up your trauma for everyone to view right yeah that kind but then it's always fun to make the the bounce of your songs and it's usually the bounce of your souls where you're talking your shit and talking to shit is what usually wouldn't

when you're just like niggily you go you wish you had like me niggily whatever and and that's usually when it comes out that's when those type of bars come out right but I don't know man you know I don't have the answer to it you know I'm still I'm on my journey I mean on one hand though being a rapper is like you know Floyd medweather doesn't beat the shit out of somebody every day but when we see him getting in that ring he's beating the fuck out of somebody yeah yeah option can be a good person a humble low key person and then when you get on a track you're something you're a bunch of crazy-ass shit that's not necessarily you. I mean, being a rapper is, I'm sure it's always been a character,

at least to a certain extent with you, right? Yeah, yeah, it has. I mean, I believe it's a character with everybody. I believe everything is, but yeah, it's, I don't know. I like most of my music to be, like, serious, serious base about personal life issues, personal life situations. But I don't know, man, this is, it's rap-minded. fucks me. It makes me reconsider

my existence every fucking day. I wanted to ask about, do you have like a song that came out within the last year, I think, with NF? And yeah, it was in, I think this year in March. Right. And that song is huge. And you guys seem like there's some sort of a

similar thread there where you guys are both like ridiculously talented rappers, extremely popular, but then both seem to kind of be like on the outskirts of like the mainstream rap conversation. What's your relationship to him or how did that sound happen? Me and NF are really cool. We're really cool.

We got introduced by one of our mutual rapper homies, named Futuristic. And, yeah, we, I mean, him and I kind of got similar styles. You know what I'm saying? We got similar vibes in our music. And we just knew that it would cross paths well. So, NF, we've been talking for like a couple years before we actually did the collab. and I think it was late 2019

he hit me up he was like yo we should work on something soon and I was like I'm down and he said he said he's going to send me some beats so he sent me a couple beats I chose the beat that I liked the most which was the one that we rap to and then we were originally supposed to put the song out in 2019 because that's when we shot the video

recorded the song way back then but yeah we you know we always talk we vibe really really really well So the song was just like effortless. We weren't in the same studio recording, but it was just a frequency that we both picked up on. And we just, you know, did what we do. And I think the song came out well.

Right. Yeah, he's kind of fascinating because he's like had just such huge records, but then doesn't really like, you know, he's never even like done. Like when I was searched his name in an interview, you never done like any of the typical interviews that you would ever think of for a rapper, which is. kind of true for you. You've done like, but you did Vlad and you didn't know, jump berb, like, but like, I don't know, the fact that he's sort of, like, I'm just kind of fascinated about what his perspective on that would be. He's, he's kind of

like, he's got that vibe to where he's like ducked off in his own little world, you know, so he likes to be low key, you know, he's not the guy who wants to be out there, like, look at me, I'm the coolest guy in the room, look what I'm wearing. He likes to make music, you know, I can tell, and

but he's a human. He enjoys being a human. And that's what I picked up from being around him. He likes to be human. And, yeah, I don't know his whole full story about why he has done this interview or that interview. But I just, he's a regular guy, though. When you look at somebody like him, though, who is like megalirical and talented in that regard, but then he also has had big-ass radio hits.

Yeah. Do you still hold out some degree of, like, I'm going to do that. And it feels like that is like really hard to pull off without like a label, like mainstream label thing. Is that something you ever even think about as an aspiration? I thought about it. And I've made a failed attempts at it in the past. I'm not going to lie.

I feel like a lot of artists have thought about it. But yeah, I definitely have. And it's that's not for me. It's not that I can't like I'm talented in the areas that I work on my craft in. And I believe that the areas that I work. on my craft in are not necessarily something that would appeal to the mainstream media. I don't believe in hit songs and songs there. I just believe in preference. You know what I'm saying? That there's, like, there was a time where UK songs sounded so, like, UK rap sounded so whack to all

Americans. Now all of a sudden, like, it's starting to sound good. Like, I, I love it now. You know what I'm saying? And so that just goes to show that it's all just preference. You know, you do something, you hear something long enough. You know, you can get, you can get used to it, but I believe that hits and all that don't exist just up to the individual to decide if they like it or not. And, you know, when I put music out, I get millions of streams, that's a hit. You know what I'm saying? When I, when I put my music out, I get millions of streams, millions of dollars, it looks like a hit to me. If the people over there don't fuck with it, It don't matter because the people over here are fucking with a heavy.

And if they say that they never heard of it, whatever, it's all good. There's a lot of people that have never heard of me and I've never heard of them and we're doing well, you know, so I'm not tripping. I don't want to play that game, though. I'm not the mainstream game of radio hit. I don't care. It doesn't, it's not going to like. And it becomes less important by the day. Yeah, because it just ultimately comes down to the fans.

Do I have the fans? And am I, you know, making money? Am I surviving off this? Can I feed my family? That's all it really. That's what matters. And if that's in place, I'm good. The other cool looks, the radio, did it hit here? Did so-and-so play? Did it hit this fucking thing on whatever, the Spotify playlist?

I don't give a fuck. Right. I just don't care. What about Dax? I feel like that's an interesting collab too, because I feel like he's sort of like occupying a very similar lane to you at this point as well. We actually collabed in 2019. Right.

It's a song called, yeah, you should have known. That's the name of the song. It's actually one of my favorite songs. I love that collab, and I love how Dax came off on that song as well. So, yeah, I can see the similarities between Dax and I. You know, he's doing this thing. He's, I don't want to say, it's new, but he's not new now because he's been in for a few years now, but he's really, he's really, he's really, he's really, like I've seen him go from here to

fucking here. So he's, yeah, he's doing well. He's doing great for himself. It's cool to see. I mean, it's interesting because I feel like he's somebody who, you know, who I don't know if he originally would have imagined it like that, but I feel like he's got to kind of look at your career and be like, okay, even if I'm not going to be Mr. mainstream rapper celebrity,

there totally is a lane for me that's been carved out by people like you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, maybe I have, I did pave a lane for him, you know. I don't, I don't, I'm not going to, you know, fully claim, be like, yeah, he only exists because of me. But, you know, maybe I did, maybe I did, you know, open his mind up to new possibilities. of being a rapper and being independent. So, but he's doing his thing.

How does that change you making those songs though when you're rapping alongside somebody like NF or Dax or whatever, who I assume that you consider them like pretty strong lyrically? Does that make you go harder than you would normally? Is that different than when it's just you in the studio recording and you only have yourself to compare yourself to? Yeah. So, yeah.

So with Ness specifically, because I'm like, man, because I know, I know. he knows how I rap and I know how he rap so I'm like I can't come with no bullshit but did you hear his verse before you record yours yes luckily because I feel like if he because he brought he presented the idea of a collab so I feel like it's just respect to like if I

if I hit you up and I say I want to do a collab and you agree and you say yo give me the beat and I give you the beat I feel like it's just a respect thing to just put an idea a concept on it so you can know where to take it so you can see what kind of vibe I'm going with, you know? Because there's some rappers who just sent beats and you're like, man, what do I rap about? What? What?

All right. Since you did this fuck shit, I'm going to rap about my dog bubbles, okay? I'm going to read a whole verse about how I love my dog bubbles on this fucking trap beat. And, hey, you said nothing. So you can't get mad. There's the verse. Don't ask me to rewrite it. You know, I don't want to be in those situations.

So I love when someone just puts their idea on it. So I'm like, okay, I see where you're taking it. I'm going to bounce off of that. So, but NF, yeah he um he was definitely like he he he had a he he he was chopping it up on there like fast i was like damn i don't want to do the same shit he's doing so i got to take a different approach but still effective so yeah i i'll i definitely kept that in mind where i'm like okay i don't want to get to my version to be like this shit whack you know so i think all all rappers

keep that in mind usually especially like emcee based rappers like who are just like in that world of like lyrical spiritual rappers. Really caring about it. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Yep. Okay, so post-COVID, how do you feel about what you're going to do you have anything in particular in mind that you're excited about?

Now obviously you can tour again. You can't get out there and be around the people and everything. Like, how are you feeling about where you're going to take things from me? I'm just focused on where I'm going to take things as a human being. I want to travel the world more. I want to see new cultures, I want to experience new things. I want to work on establishing a relationship with my son. You know, rapping is cool and I'm still going to do it,

but I'm going to do it when I feel like doing it. I'm not going to let it consume me and ruin my mind and corrupt my thoughts like it has done in the past. I can, I just want to do whatever makes me happy. So I can't promise that like me being a full throttle hops and showing up to every, event dropping songs on this specific time all the time it's going to happen like i'm just going to do it when i feel it you know i'm not i'm not a slave to to this industry i don't want to be but i'm i'm still grateful for it and i don't want to take it for granted where i just like let it pass and i'm like

fuck you know but i i want to be human i want to live i want to experience the earth i want to you know just make new friends and places that i never thought of i want to just do that and i I also want to help people. I really, really truly enjoy helping people. Like, I want to help them through their problems because, you know, rap is cool and I can do it through rap. And, you know, and maybe I'll start doing it more through there. I feel like I already have, you know, in a sense, and I still will. But I want to go to, like, schools and help kids.

I want to speak to them and let them know, like, reality, you know, like what's going to happen when you get out of middle school or high school. And this is something that I really want to do. Like I want to be one of those voices in the world where people are like, I'm glad that man spoke because I now see things from a different perspective or new perspectives, you know? It's pretty dope that your life has even like afforded you the ability to be able to sort of like wander off and do those kind of things because a lot of rappers are really only rapping from the lived experience of just being a rapper. Yeah. And it's kind of like cyclical and it's boring and it's like, I don't know. It feels like probably the best thing that you could do for your content and your career and everything would be to like step away and have these crazy life experiences so that when you are ready to make music or whatever that you're able to sort of speak on things that, you know, are just totally out of the ordinary or that feed your soul, really. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And I want to, I still want to do music. Like, I want to collaborate with different artists around the world, but they don't necessarily have to be famous. I might go to Africa and find some dude in Nigeria who just plays the fucking bongos or whatever. And I just want to just create new sounds, different things, just as a musician. Fuck the fame shit. Fuck how cool it looks or whatever. I just want to do it, you know, because that feeds my soul. You know what I'm saying?

I just want to do things that feed my soul. And if it happens to, you know, come out as a song that people love, whatever, then it is what it is. but I truly, truly just want to be happy. I want to do things that make me happy. I don't want to fall under this umbrella of, well, if you're a rapper, you got to put out albums at least once a year. Some people are even doing twice, you know?

Look at what he did. Nope, get that the fuck. I'm a human fucking being, and I'm leaving, doing whatever the fuck I want to do. And I'm allowed to, you know? But I'm smart, though. So like I said, I'm not going to,

you know, destroy what I built, you know, and just let it fucking fizzle off. But I want to live, man. And I want to, and I want to show people, like, let people know, like, it's okay to live. Dude, I've been slaving away for this, in this industry for 10 years. I've been rapping for 21 years. I'm finally in a place in my life now where I can see the world. Why the fuck do I want to go sit down and rap right now? Like, why, like, if I feel it, I feel it. But come on now, 21 fucking years. Imagine working at McDonald's for 21 fucking years.

and then someone like, you're going to cook some new fries with the new seasoning, with the new sauce? Let me get the fuck out of here. If I make some fries with some new sauce, it's going to be what it's going to be. But ain't nobody's trying to do that right now. I've been working at that fucking office for so fucking long. I want to do new shit.

The thing that people do is that they work their whole life and then all of a sudden one day they're like 65 and they retire and they get to go on vacation, but they're so old that they could barely fucking walk. And it's like you kind of become a rapper so you won't have that kind of lifestyle but then through becoming a rapper, you end up grinding and working out the job basically as hard as somebody who's got a fucking office job.

And that's just sort of, it's like at a certain point, you got to, if you are able to do this with your financial situation and stuff, I think it's just hugely beneficial to be able to step away and sort of take some time, you know? Yeah, yeah, I agree. I look at this way. I give this example a lot. You got Kevin Hart and Dave Chappelle. Kevin Hart is clearly, I guess, in the mainstream media, he's popping right now. He's hot.

Movies dropping left to right. He's doing the most. Dave Chappelle, he, everyone knows him, clearly knows him. He's, you know, he's not doing movies like that. You know, he drops a Netflix special, you know, when he feels like it. But I fuck with Dave, me personally, I love Dave Chappelle. I don't give a fuck how big these other comedians are, whatever.

I don't care if Dave Chappelle doesn't ever do a movie again or if fucking stand-up comedy. I love Dave Chappelle, and he's one of my favorite comedians of all time. And I guess in the world of, like, I want to say he's underground, but you know, he kind of has to, he's got that Deadpool thing going on too, where he's like at his own, he's not tied to anything. He just does it how he wants to. I feel like Dave Chappelle is just being him, like, not doing thing. We're like, I got to be here, got to be there, got to make sure I'm the hottest guy. Like, he's, I truly feel, and I don't know what the real reality is like, but I, I, I, I get the vibe from how he talks, how he presents himself.

He's just him. He's Dave the human. Kevin Hart has been profit maximizing all these years. He's got a shillot of endorsements. He's like, you know, he's got these big movies. He's got all this crazy shit going on and that's awesome. But you're right that once you zoom out and we can kind of view this, I think, more accurately as like non-hardcore comedy fans or not being in the comedy industry.

But you can see like those two different career arcs and it's like Kevin Hart, if he had gone a little bit more in the Dave Chappelle. Like, Dave Chappelle, I feel like has that identity because he made one show that only lasted a couple of seasons and everybody regarded it as basically the best show that we had ever seen. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, that's kind of, that's very telling is that like, you don't need to do 500 movies. Like, you don't need to make 500 music videos. Yeah, yeah. But if you can make one fucking music video that was just like, or one album that was the best fucking thing that the world had ever heard that year or whatever. And it's, it's kind of like you can't be too closely. involved with that end result. You have to just make it and do the best job you can and

you know, that that reputation sort of chooses you. Yeah, yeah, no, it's true. And some people, they may work a million times as harder than, I guess, Dave Chappelle doing this and that, you know, getting all the publicity, everything. And the end result may not even be as great as Dave Chappelle people, like, because everyone fucks a Dave Chappelle, I feel like, you know, and I, sometimes, you know, just, yeah, that may not be the path for everybody, you know. I'd rather, and I'm not saying I am or I'm not Dave Chappelle, I'm just saying, I just want to be me. I just want to be me, whatever it is, you know, so let every other rapper do whatever the fuck they're doing. I'm going to do what I'm doing.

And it's not even a competition of who's cooler at the end. I just know at the end, I want to be able to go, I've been me the whole time. That's all that really mattered, you know, respect, cool, keep it moving. yeah I just I just like living man there's so many there's so many beautiful things out there dude I've been hanging with elephants like consistently like last year I was hanging

with like what the fuck is that like I was really like bathing elephants really like helping them live life and survive during the whole COVID shit what is that was just like shit like that I like stuff like that you know what I'm saying I you know I'm helping random families out in Thailand just to survive

and, you know, they're taking me into their lives, showing me how their families live. Like, these are things I would have never seen in America. And I want to see more around the world. I want to go everywhere and see other things. It excites me. It's like winning a Grammy to me, you know? I remember the first time, and it was in Thailand,

where I first saw an elephant up close and personal and was just, like, really looking at the fucking elephant's skin. Dude, it's crazy. Just thinking, like, it's a dinosaur. There's a whole world out there, man. Like, this elephant skin is some, steak of shit, there's bugs landing all over. I'm just like, somehow

I find this elephant's skin very moving right now. Yeah, yeah. Dude, and then, man, outside of America, like America has great things. I'm not going to like shit on it like that, but the world has things out there that you've never fucking

seen that will do something to you when you're in the presence of it. Like, and you can't, and of course in, you know, you're just being stuck in your face going, what could it do? go to one of these fucking places, you know, if you have the opportunity to and just, you're just going to see. Like, the designer of this fucking universe knew what the fuck they're doing. They're like, oh, you thought you got this figured out?

Check this out. When you, I got some shit that you ain't never seen. Go over here, check this out. Watch what the nature does to you. Watch what it pulls out. You watch out makes you feel. Watch what, watch what it makes you want to let go of the things that you didn't really need in your life. Like, there's different vibrations out.

there man that we can tap into but yeah a lot of people just if they don't travel I feel like they'll just never see those things they'll never understand but man I love traveling travel is one best things you can do like when I uh I interview rappers all the time and I notice that the ones who traveled at a young age yeah that usually just like opens the world up to them yeah realize like there's damn there's so much more and then just and that person who just never leaves their block yeah it's like it's so hard to see outside of that yeah it really is It really is. And I understand this well because I was that kid growing up who didn't travel, stuck inside my neighborhood. But there's so much more out there, man. Like there's so much more.

And I hope everyone out there can just, you know, get a chance to see it. For sure. I appreciate you, man. Hey, appreciate you as well. Very, very real conversation right there. I feel like I'm just super excited to see what people have to say about that. Oh, yeah. I'll be tuned into the comments section heavily. Yeah. Well, anything you want to promote?

Anyone you want to shout out? Shout out to life, man. You're still here. You haven't died yet. Congratulations. I don't know how you did it. Haven't managed to get hit by a car yet. You know, we're still here.

So there's hope. We're all here on the same rock. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, nothing I want to promote, man. I'm just here, just being me. Yeah. I can't even do the outro because I just feel like it will kind of taint what we

You know what? Look, there's nothing wrong with playing the game. So let's let's hit that. We'll just say like comment and subscribe. I'm not going to give you the whole spiel. Hobson. Appreciate you, man. For real. Hey, I appreciate you too, man.