No Jumper - The MC Serch Interview: Addiction, MF Doom, The White Rapper Show, DJ Vlad Beef & More

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

MC Serch is known for his storytelling, in depth interviews and awesome hip hop anecdotes! He shares with Adam about Doom, Nas, Jay-Z, Dre, Eminem, The White Rapper Show, new artists he supports! Plus, Serch clears up a few things about beef with Vlad. He also talks about his new exciting projects, music, podcasts, documentaries and more! https://www.instagram.com/emceeserch/ https://www.instagram.com/serchsays/ https://twitter.com/MCSerch https://twitter.com/BrkingAnonymity https://www.facebook.com/mcserch ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No jumper. Coolest podcast in the world. Factor. And today I'm in here with a legendary hip-hop entity. The other white meat. Seen it all, done it all. Factor. DJ Search is in the building.

Oh, MC Search. It's okay. Fuck, did I really just do that? That's okay. No, no, no. No, no. That's, you know what? I actually have a line in my new record. I said, fake fans call me DJ Search one emcee in Dallas.

called me MC Self. So I'm in the fake fan category. Well, listen, and there's no wrong with it because you are. I was going to restart the interview, but then you just so smoothly wrote through that? Can I tell you something? First of all, I love what you do, and I love that you love new shit. Yeah. And I also love a lot of new shit.

So it doesn't bother me when people who are younger and then were not even born when I was making music. That's pretty egregious, though. Call me DJ, sir. No, stop. Stop. Stop. Stop it. It's not. I don't have an ego about that shit. I really don't.

And I hope you don't are not, you know, in a headspace of any kind that I'm like, oh, shit, that's like. I'm just going to blame hell row. Yeah. And some hell of good weed, it seems like, some hell of good weed. Do you know where we are right now? That's all I want to know. Are we good right now with geo location?

We're in the no-jubber studio. Okay, we don't have to geo-traffic and we don't have to geo-trophic and we don't target you right now to find out where we're at. With MC Search. Okay, good. There to. MC Search is actually my name. That's fact though.

That's a good look, Adam. Thank you. And thank you so much for having me, man. Having my old ass on your show, I really appreciate that. That's amazing. I truly appreciate this opportunity more than you could ever know. Thank you. Laura.

She just hit the awe of the background. How are you doing? I got to tell you something. If I was any better, I'd be twins. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, life is so, so good. Doing what I love to do, having the ability to kind of create my own narrative at this point in my life, having the ability to say no, to have the ability to tell people

fuck you, no. And I don't say fuck you know. I just like to say, no, thanks. Wish you the best in your future endeavors, but that doesn't work for me. Right. You know, which is why I give you so much credit and why I give so many of you guys so much credit now because you have the ability to self-manifest your entire career so that you can say no. Right. Because when I was your age, I couldn't say no.

There was no, no. There was, yes, how high. Where do you need me to be? You know, there was no, no. Right. So the beautiful part of this liquid commerce that we live in right now is that you have the ability. to say fuck you know right you know so kudos to you kudos to what you've built and I'm trying to follow in your footsteps what I'm doing with timeless podcast company and what I'm trying to create in

my podcast space emulates what you're trying to do well thank you for doing it it's interesting you say that because I'm that makes me immediately think of like I was just interviewing Steve rifkin and we're talking about like what he's trying to do in his career right now and it's basically like a lot of people like yourself where you grew up having to work within the system and now you want to just go independent and create your own thing because it's like so much less essential to have these big conglomerates operating and running your career it's like a lot easier to just sort of do something smaller that can more accurately represent your vision right yeah i mean it's it's about the strongest are not the the most strong it's the most flexible you know those are the

people who survive. And to be flexible, you have to be mobile, you have to be lean, you have to have not the big brick and mortar, not the big location, not the heavy real estate. You need to be able to say, you know what, I need to pivot and I need to pivot in a small period of time. For a company like Rifkin, who I used to consult back in the day, like I used to consult loud way back in the day, again, way before you were born. The pivot, 83 for that. Oh, yeah, way before that. No, I'm just But the pivot bro for a Rifkin to pivot his real estate to pivot where he was renting to move it from one position to the next. That's what she said, by the way. It was monumentally challenging to do that.

Today and today's e-commerce and today's liquid economy, you can pivot in 48 hours. You know, you can create a situation where besides, you know, a beautiful studio, you know, a beautiful studio. I think it's fairly safe to say that if you didn't like the rental space here, you can move this in a week. Oh, yeah. It's not, you're not so landlocked anymore, right? Like the commerce that you have is your brand. The commerce that you have is the integrity and the stories that you tell. And the way that you continually move the narrative forward with how you tell your stories and who you tell them to.

And if you start to make other stuff like the fucking pongo bongo stick, or the weed or the water, by the way, no jump of water, dope as shit ever. Wetest water in the world. Wetest. So wet, so wavy, crazy. You are able to do that in this great ethos of, you know, this e-commerce system, whether it's social media or not. You know, for me the next step is, well, why do I?

I need an IG? Why do I need a TikTok? When can I create the mobile for myself? And when do you build that, I am not there. You might be closer. Talib Qaali might be closer. But when you start thinking about like, okay, have I really read the terms of agreement with IG? Because they own all my shit. Do I really read the terms of agreement with TikTok because they own my shit? Like when you start looking at it from that perspective, you might want to say, okay, do I create my own my shit? Do I create own TikTok for me, but then how do I grab that audience? Right? I don't even think it's worth thinking about too much because breaking into the fucking social media world is one of the most difficult things you could take on. The network effect is like what it's all about. It's like,

you know, if everybody's on the platform, nobody wants to go to another platform. So to create your own social media is about the most outlandish thing you could take on. So yeah, I'm definitely not taking that on. No, and you use it as promotion, right? So you use it. So you use it. it as promotion, you say, okay, fuck it, I'm going to give them 30 seconds of content. I'm going to give them great content because it's going to drag people in. So you use it as a promotional vehicle, but just know on the other side of it that they are accumulating wealth based on content that you're giving them. I mean, it's all, all these platforms are just ways to seize up a little bit of each person's attention. You know, it's an attention economy. If you could be barstool sports

and you have a customer who spends four hours a day looking at your fucking website or listening to your podcasts, etc., then you have created a massive amount of ability to sell advertisement to that person. And then when you look at other platforms, when you look at TikTok and you look at Twitter, Instagram, or whatever, even if you are just reminding people to go watch your content on a platform where you have it monetized, you know, it's still just all about being able to capture that little tiny sliver of a person's attention. And that's what every media company, and in turn, everybody has become a media company. You know, it's like any single person who's just like updating their Instagram story all day to their 2,000 followers. I mean, they're basically just doing self-promo for the limited audience that they have. And in that way, like, we're all just operating in that same attention economy. Yeah. And for you, like, when you see like repeats or when you see people, you know, show the 30 seconds of Black China,

interview, which I think lasted that long. Or when they show like the Aaron Carter interview, like, there's got to be a sense of accomplishment for you because you know you've not only generated content for yourself and created self-interest, but you also created content for everybody else to go, oh shit, like I didn't know Aaron Carter was fucking that thugged out. Like, I didn't know Black China was that sensitive about shit. Like, I didn't know blank. You know what I'm saying? And that blank, that space that you live in, that's the reason why people fuck with you because they don't know what that blank's going to be. They don't know who's going to sit at this desk.

They don't know who earned this chair. And they don't know what that vacuum that is going to create based on what you talk about. Yeah. Like we interviewed that girl and she talked about sucking off seven basketball players in a row. Right. And I mean, a couple days later, the clip on Twitter, like, you know, 30 seconds of her talking about it, just ended up on Twitter with probably 15 million views from the clip. And that is always a weird feeling because it's,

like it's not viral from my social media account. It's not viral. I'm not making any money off it. But somehow I feel deeply accomplished. Right. No, but ultimately are you? Because then all of a sudden it's like, okay, well, what is he going to say next? It reminds me of the Howard Stern movie private parts, right?

They went out and they said, the average fan who loves Howard Stern listens for 90 minutes. Right. The number one answer is what is he going to say next? People that hate Howard Stern listen for four hours. Reason? What is he going to say next? Right. You know what I'm saying?

So while you're saying you're not making money, you exist because of that $15 million. Yeah. Because of that blank. I'm talking about that ethos that's like, oh shit, what the fuck is that I'm going to have next? Who, like, who is he going to have on next? And what are they going to say next? Those moments really define your career as unfortunate as it is. It's like, yeah, you're deep three-hour conversations that mean the world to you

and in which you really felt like your mind opened and you felt like it was the most enlightened conversation you ever had. That's great for your die-heart. fans. But it's definitely the guy passing out and smacking his forehead on the wall that is like the one that because that's what has like the waiter in Hawaii saying like, oh my God, I just saw that guy smack his face on the wall. And that's what it is to have a big platform or to be doing something that a lot of people know about is it's not about having five million hardcore fans. It's about those really epic moments. Like how many people listen to every word of every Charlemagne interview

versus how many people remember that time that he roasted so-and-so or that birdman ran up on him. No, the two things that I think about when you're talking about all of this is thing one, when you talked about the girl who sucked the seven dicks, of all of the posts that I saw, there was one post that said, I wonder what her father must think at this point, right? Oh, there's so many of those, yeah. So that's the one that captures that I thought about in my head. And then the other one is this crate challenge. like my man posted some shit

it's like where these motherfuck is getting all these crates from like that's you know like that's those are the things to me that like mean the most like again I am far from a dude that has a shit ton of followers on fucking

you know Instagram like I was I just did interview with Gator who by the way you did an amazing interview but I told I shared I shared with Gator that Dave is the reason that my show is not on TV you know at the same time that Dave was pitching his show for FX, I had a deal.

They call me search was going to be a TV show about this white rapper in Queens who was coming up who was the forest gump of hip hop in the 80s. And my show got dropped. And no, no tea, no shade like it is what it is. Because of Dave? Yeah, because of Dave. Because they thought Dave was just better and similar. And he is because I got 40,000 followers.

He's got 40 million. So on the level of that, it's like, yo, we don't give a fuck about a search. He got screwed or brawn. He got fucking 40 million followers. this shit makes sense. And let's be really fucking clear. That show is fucking amazing. Like I would never have been able to make a show as good as that.

Like Dave's show by far as the best, it's the sign of hip hop. Like it's just a fucking amazing show. And I told Gay to that when I did my interview on Search Says on my podcast. And again, what he has done in the medium of television is the same thing that I think that he's done in. terms of the medium of making music. Like, he's just created a lane that is uniquely his, right? And even though my lane was very uniquely mine before you were born, it's still one of those things where it's like, so what, who cares?

And I'm okay with that. Like, I think there's a lot of, like, curmudgeon OGs that are like, ah, you know, y'all motherfuckers don't realize how hard it was. Hell, fuck all that. Like, if I'm not flexible enough to, like, recognize that I need to, I need to continue to create relevancy, not even for myself as a brand, but relevancy for the stories that I was a witness to and stories that I was a part of, it's not about me. It's about the things that I was around. So doing the podcast on Big Daddy Kane, right? Like our first,

did I ever tell you the one about podcast? Right. Did I ever tell you one about Big Daddy Kane? dude we spent two years meeting with ear drum companies and you know and when I say ear drum telling them to hear ear doctors about how the inner ear hear sound like we met with all these fucking companies about how the drivers work in fucking headphones we were thinking about immersive sound design three years ago way before fucking apple now was doing commercials about that shit right we were meeting with dobi ammo so our entire first season of big daddy cane is all immersive of sound design. We're talking about growing up on Gates Avenue and going to fucking play

ball. We went, we sent a sound team to fucking record that fucking park. So that's how it felt. Whether you fucking feel that shit or not is on you, but that's what we did. And now doing the one the podcast on Doom, you know,

the identity of that is not about like my relationship with MF Doom. It's my relationship with Daniel Dumley, who I grew up up with in Long Beach, who before any of y'all knew, Doom, the mad villain, and he was Daniel Dumae, him and his brother, he's the reason I had a high top fade. He's the reason I had third base cut in the back of my head. You know, he's the, he's the reason that when I got on, I had a purpose. So when I was like, okay, when I get on, y'all get on. You know, when GYP was,

that was my mission after third base. Like the back of the third base album is in my man's basement in Long Beach. You know what I'm saying? So telling those stories and being about that part of the culture for me, it's not about me. I don't have to be a curmudgeon and worry about, oh, fuck, I only got 40,000. I don't give a fuck how many fucking followers I have. It's irrelevant.

So when Dave did what his thing, his thing, I was so happy to see someone be able to tell their story based on what they built today. And it just makes me say that, you know, okay, I have to be able to tell my stories. I have to figure out a way to share my experiences without being an egocentric and being self-centered. Right. Yeah. When did that, you know, because we talk about every person becoming a media company, you know, you've taken on a lot more there by just deciding that you wanted to go in the, you know,

the path of doing podcasts about all these different people that you've been around and stuff. Like when did that sort of switch get flipped in your head that you could really tell some amazing, stories through this medium. And did you think about doing like, you know, documentaries? Like, you know, I was talking to a big you about him choosing to do, um, like all this TV stuff and everything. It occurred to me that like he could have done a podcast. He could have done a series of TikToks, you know, there's so many different ways that you could tell these stories. Like, what made you land on deciding to do these sort of like fully fleshed out, immersive podcast? So it wasn't just one thing.

Right? It goes back to what I'm saying. It's not the strong who survives, it's the flexible. We started a media company. And that identity was, we'll do documentaries, we'll do films, we'll do whatever. We'll go wherever we fit. But there was something interesting for me about six years ago in the podcast space where I just didn't see my stories and the stories that I was around really being told in a way that I cared about. And I'm from that, right? Like, I didn't hear the storytellers doing it in a way that

it was compelling to me. And then, you know, Norrie about two years later, EFN and Nori did drink champs. And I was like, oh, good for Norrie. Because when I was taking Norrie on the road, I was working his record. You know, I broke Super Thug like I worked that record. And it was amazing that I would take him to radio stations and people would come to him after and wasn't the fans. It was the fucking program director saying, was he interested in doing radio? Like, is he interested in doing the morning show? Like, he was such a great storyteller. People were so compelled by that. And that was what was happening to me when I was going on the road. People would come up to me, program directors, oh, are you interested in doing radio? And that's

how I got started. I was the first non-African American to ever host WJLB's radio show, which was the most legendary urban station in the country. So it was always about storytelling. It was always about telling those stories. And I had a program director tell me, you can only be MC Search and third base on the morning show for three months. It's going to get to a point where you're going to have to tell something else. You're going to have to say something else.

There's only so many times you can talk about yourself until you have to start telling other stories. And that was kind of the ethos of how I thought about it in creating a media company with my wife. So we just totally went into it saying we're going to be totally flexible We're going to take every meeting We're going to see where we land and where we land the biggest was the orchard and and Brad Navin and those guys were like yo

We're bullish on you we want you to tell you story We want you to be able to like share your experience and what you you saw and heard And I said yeah, but I really need to do it in a way that's not being done Because the immersive sound is on was always a part of it for me. Like, you know, our artists, and not even just Kane or the artist, you know, but G-Rap and, you know, brand new being, like, their stories haven't really been told in a way that I think they deserve, right? So in that space, yeah, you can do it in a really cool way in documentary, and you can shoot the beautiful shots of the Bronx, and you can shoot Tats crew pieces and all of that, but how much

doper is it to hear their voice and then match that voice with an amazing sound design that you don't even expect, right? So I was like, that's, that's kind of fucking dope, right? And it's still the Wild West because, you know, I'm sure Big You, the reason he did TV is there's money in TV, you know, and there's no money in podcasting yet. Nobody really understands how to monetize it, right? Like, audience is one part, CRM's another, and I don't want to get too deep in a weed and fucking make people click out. But the way, you know, we think about podcast is like, okay, how do we tell an amazing story? Like, how do we, compel kids to listen to Big Daddy Kane

and talk about him being a stickup kid in Brooklyn. Well, we hit a click, click, and a fucking gun behind somebody's head. You know, and have him tell this story from a narrative that's one to one, right? So that was really, really cool with me, and then, you know, that kind of expanded. Like, so I've been in recovery now,

10 years, like I haven't used. So I was like, okay, well, it's got to be amazing people that have amazing stories about their recovery. So we're building this entire immersive sound design show called breaking out Nimmity, which debuts in September, September 22nd. We talked to Brandon Novak, you know, about his fucking recovery.

Danny Boyer from House of Pain, Royce of 5'9, King Crooked. You know, we talked to these amazing people. Frank Gallagher, who's the fifth talking head, like, people who are fucking amazing, have these amazing stories about how they hit rock bottom. Danny Boy talking about having the biggest record in the world living fucking under a fucking underpass. You know, but how does that sound? Like, when you're smoking good and you're in the car and then all of a sudden you

fucking hear that story. Okay, it's one thing to hear the audio of it, but it's amazing to hear how we fucking built it. You know, and sitting in Adobe Amos studio and fucking knowing like when you're in your car or when you got your headphones and the drivers are fucking sounding crazy,

you're like, oh shit, the story's even better because of the immersive sound design. And that to me was just that was the lynchpin. And it wasn't even about money, bro. It wasn't fuck money. It's not about money. Like I'm at a place in my career, thank goodness. where I don't chase a dollar, I chase opportunity. You know, I tell young people all the time, chase opportunity, money will come.

If you chase money, it always runs, you know? So that was always the impetus of like at least one part of it. And we'll have TV shows and we'll have documentaries and we'll have films. We'll have all that shit when it comes. But right now my primary focus is breaking anonymity, MF Doom, podcast, and a search set. Because I just love telling stories. We're talking about the addiction-based stuff. What was your advice, if you don't mind me asking?

No, I don't mind you asking at all. It was marijuana. Oh, really? Yeah, we. And that was a tough one for you to break? It wasn't that it was tough to break. It was the challenges I had when I was high. Uh-huh.

And the challenges that I had when I was high was how I behaved. And when I got into recovery, I realized that my smoking was really just a way of me being afraid of dealing. with my inner feelings. And then what I learned even deeper into that, bro, is that my smoking was really making me hide from my true addictions, which was lying, hustling, stealing, violence, anger, rage, distemper, disagreement, just all the chaos,

internal chaos that I carried with me all the time. So when working a program and working steps, I was able to identify like, okay, these are the reasons I wake and bake. These are the reasons why I want to fucking get, These are reasons why I Instead of wanting to spend time with my wife and kids Why I want to fucking go run and go hang out with my boys on the east side on grass shit in Detroit

Or I want to go to L.A. and fucking hide out of my manscript for a month Like so it was it was the behaviors around it right And and you know I've had a lot of conversations about my addiction You know some people say oh well you know you can't be an addict to weed Well what I say is this it's not about whether you smoke or not. It's the behavior around it. And for me, this addict,

I can't behave normally if I get hot. It's just not something that is a functioning part of who I am. I'm a much better human being, a much more balanced. I'm a better father, better husband, better human being without the drugs and without the alcohol. And I am just clearer, but also I was able to get rid of a lot of,

lot of shit I carried for a long time. Like what I realized, bro, is that like when I was getting high, I was denying this, like, little five-year-old kid who was afraid of the world, who got beat by his mom and dad, who was afraid to go into the hood, who, you know, just all these things. So I had to, like, talk to that little kid that was inside of me and said, you know what, it's okay. You're okay. You don't have to be afraid anymore.

You don't have to be worried about the things that hurt you. you can come out of that now and in this breaking anonymity podcast I find that there's a lot of similarities with a lot of people whether it's Royce who's from Detroit

totally King Crooked totally you know you talk to people who have so many different lives than you who aren't from New Hampshire who aren't from Far Rockaway Queens but the story is the same that the addiction was really just

masking what we were truly addicted to And that's the amazing part of the story, and that's the amazing part of the podcast, is that people are allowed to elaborate on not only their bottom, but how they came up, and what ultimately helped work for them in their life. And also, I just want to break the stigma. I think a lot of people are like, oh, that shit is like a fucking, like, cult, like motherfuckers. You know, that shit is a cult in it. You know, fuck all that.

I have more fun with my dudes who don't get high than I ever did with my dudes I get high. Like, yo, they're just bananas. My dudes are bananas. You know? And also for me, I have a very strict men do recovery with men. Women do recovery with women. Like, I don't, I just, I like the fact that I can comrade with my guys. Right.

You know, if you're a woman in recovery, you should find a woman in recovery to bond with. I'm not the one. You know what I'm saying? I'm married, I don't need to bond with another woman. I want to be around dudes who understand what it's like to be married, to have this disease of addiction, and work through it with other dudes. Right. Is it tough for you to, like, go be in the studio when there's 10 people smoking blunts these days?

No, I'm in here right now with dudes who are smoking weed. That shit don't bother me. Right. You know, the smell is the smell. And the way I look at it is if I had a cigar right now, I'd be smoking a cigar. You know what I still do that? Yeah, of course. I love cigars.

But it's different. Like, it's different. Like, I don't smoke, I don't smoke cigarettes. Right. And I have that argument with my homeboys all the time. I'm like, yo, you gave up alcohol, you gave up drugs, but you still smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes are 10 times fucking worse, homie. Like, you got to get rid of that shit, you know.

But I smoke cigars because you don't inhale them. Right. You know, it's a different. And there's really no accurate. I think it's less than 1% of people that have ever died of cancer from smoking cigars. Hmm. So I have like two humidoras filled fucking cigars at the crib. Really?

Yeah. Do you feel like that in some ways is like replaced that as your vice? Are you like a coffee guy? No, no, no, I'm not a coffee guy. I can't do caffeine. Okay. I don't do caffeine. I was talking my daughter's boyfriend, B is here.

I'm not going to blow up here. It's funny when people get sober, though, but then they become like the biggest, most epic cigarette slash vaguely. slash coffee people on earth. Ever, ever. Yeah, no, I don't do any caffeine. I don't do any cigarettes. I smoke cigars maybe three times a month. Twice a month.

I don't really do it a lot. I have a homeboy in mine. We'll go play golf and I'll have a cigar. Or sometimes I started a stupid-ass page on my Instagram called Cigar Gang. And this dude sent me like a humidor filled with like Cubans. Cubans. So every once in Sunday I'll go live and just talk shit with my boys about whatever. Right. You know, and just do that. And, uh, you know, but no, I'm not, it's not an addiction.

You know, I would never consider it an addiction. If my wife said to me one day, you know what, Michael, I don't want you smoking cigars anymore. I get rid of it. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. Um, yeah, the MF Dune thing, man. Like, were you a fan? I was a fan. Not like a hardcore fan, But, you know, he always had a special place in, like, when I was deep in the BMX world, all throughout my 20s and stuff, where he was in so many videos so often that a lot of his songs are, like, anthems in the bike riding world. So I was always, like, you know, very aware of them and stuff. Microwave Mayo is a big one. I know a lot of guys used to ride to microwave mayo. Oh, yeah.

Do you like so what I mean he's such a mystery to most people and you're somebody who actually knew him pretty well Which puts you in a very rare position And I feel like you know there's a weird thing that happens these days where when somebody dies or something epic happens There's almost like this little like war for who's going to do the content about it Right there's already three six nine documentaries and I was like very recent So I want to be I want to be very clear about something Yeah. I knew Daniel Dumalay.

Right. That was my friend since 14 years old. I knew Zevlov X, the guy who did GasFaith. Right. I knew KMD, which was the first deal I ever did as a production company. I knew Subrach his brother. I knew Dumbaza his younger brother. I didn't know Doom.

I don't know MF Doom. So me doing this podcast and with Jasmine, his widow, and with the estate, is me getting to know my friend. Because, you know, one of the parts of my recovery was always about making amends. And I always felt shitty about how our relationship kind of fell apart. And it's my fault. And it's my fault because of my ego.

And it's my fault because, you know, I was attracted to other shiny things. And I always thought, you know, I'll have the chance to make a man. Like he'll just be around, you know, and I'll just... And we had a mutual close, friend. Guy went to high school with, created the mask, created, you know, the Doom logo, my man Blake, Keio, his graffiti name is Keio. So I always figured I'll call Blake and we'll go to Guyana and,

you know, I'm make amends. And it didn't happen. And I was on Clubhouse and I heard just Blaze and guru mention it. And I kind of fell apart, you know. And, you know, after I grieved, I was like, you know, I want to have the opportunity to tell the story. So, you know, we reached out to Sadiq from Ram Sayas, who's managing the estate with Jasmine. And we said, you know, we want to do this podcast. And, you know, I feel very blessed and thankful that Jasmine gave me the honor of doing it. Because it's my way of reaching out to, you know, guys that I know forever, Yassim Bey, Taliban, you know, Madlib, Egan, you know, all those dudes and be like, yo, tell me about doom. What did I miss?

Cotty, Curious George, CM, fam, all those guys. What did I miss? And a lot of it I missed because, you know, I couldn't be around people who were using. So, you know, you got to stay away from places and things. But the other part of it was, like, we were just in different places, you know? So, you know, this podcast is my way of not only telling the story for fans, but it's really my way of, you know, having some kind of closure. Right.

you fell out with him like a long time ago? Long time ago. Right after his brother Sabrock died. And it wasn't a fallout. I wouldn't say that. It was just a separation. It's so easy to stop fucking with people when you are in the music industry and there's a new person to deal with every day and there's five million different artists who are hot every year. I mean, it's just easy to fall out of touch with people that you might have had something significant with at one point.

Yeah. And it was also, you know, again, I had OC. So I was working on Word Life. I had Nas. I was working on Il-Matic. You know, I was working on, you know, being an executive at Wild Pitch. I was working with the coup on Fat Cats Big of Fish. I was, you know, just met Mark Echos, who were about to build Echo Unlimited Clothing.

Like, I just met Ill Bill. We were going to build non-fiction and started that group. Like, I had fucking things. My daughter was just born. You know, I just, life happened, you know, and it was a pivot. and you know it's easy to say it was a pivot but it's also easy to say i probably tossed him to the side and that's not how it felt but that's probably how it looked and um i also felt like he made a choice and he chose to roll with people who weren't fucking with me so i wasn't fucking with them um

but i also know that that was not how he felt at the end you know and that's not how he felt at the end you know, and that's not how we felt about each other at the end. So it's now my responsibility to kind of not only tell people an amazing story about my friend, but tell a story about somebody who was a mystery to a lot of people, you know, and to properly tell a story in a way that, you know, has amazing sound design that isn't flat and isn't just, you know, some shit that, you know, is just corny. Like doing that is the thing that I don't get to do as a result of doing such a prolific amount of content and just sitting down with people for hours and hours and hours every day is that that feeling of really getting to dig in on one topic, document the fuck out of it, you know, talk to everyone who knew the person, really paint the picture of the person. Like in a lot of ways, I don't think I could do that, but I'm like really envious of people who have the temperament to sort of.

to make that kind of content where you really go out of your way to fully document a person and have conversations with all the side characters instead of just sort of like producing YouTube content over and over. So I'm very much like in awe of anyone doing that kind of content. Separate from what you just said about the side people, I want to just say to you that I disagree wholeheartedly because you have single-handedly in a lot of ways. done an amazing job of chronicling this era of hip-hop and doing it in a way that's personable, doing it in a way that gave people a human touch. And I really got to give you your flowers, bro, because I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Again, side people aside, like, I get that. But I don't think there's anybody better that has chronicled this genre's artist than you. I appreciate that. I mean, that's facto. Like, that's not capo. That's fact though. Like, you fucking, like, hearing the Teca interview, hearing the little TJ interview,

like, you put me up on a lot of artists that I might have fucked with a little bit. Because I'm still, like, I know, you know, I'm an OG or, like, Bunby says I'm the triple white OG. But I still fuck with, like, I'm fucking with Keene Streets right now. I'm fucking with Rockaway Rome.

I'm fucking with Blanc-Lafina. I'm fucking with. Bobby J from Rockaway. I'm fucking with a lot, OT to reel. I'm fucking with a lot of young artists,

man. Like I fuck with them. Like, I listen hard body. You know, it's not about my age and it's not about where I come from.

Like, I love this music. And I also find, I love to find creators that can put me up on shit that maybe I'm not up on. You're one of those people. No, I appreciate that.

But it's a very different thing. You know, like, sitting down. It's different. Having a conversation for two hours with somebody versus somebody who has 10 two-hour conversations and then pulls the best, most essential little morsels and then narrates it and just really ties it all together into this beautiful thing.

I mean, it's just, it's very different. And I feel like me having done this for so long, it would be very difficult for me to do it. And I've thought that there is a person in my life who lost their life that I thought about doing a documentary on and really thought about it. but it's so hard for me to get my brain to switch over into the mode of doing that kind of really dense content. Who is the one person? Well, it's actually this friend of mine, Gabe Brooks, who was like a crip from L.A., who was also like a BMX pro, and he had like a really incredible life, and then he got

murdered. And I feel like I could tell his story in such, like, an intense way, but it's also like, I don't know, it's just very hard to, like, carve out the time that I would need. need to do that when I'm also doing so much of those. I can see the hurt in your face and how how much he meant to you when you just mentioned him. So I can imagine that that story would be an important one for you to tell. And it would be something that would take a lot of time, a lot of effort and a lot of integrity. And I think that, you know, one of the things that I'm so proud about is Big Daddy Kane could have told a story on a hundred fucking platforms, bro.

He could have told his story a hundred different ways. He chose me and my wife. He chose Timeless podcast because he knew that we would give him the ability to tell it, the way he wanted to tell it, and that he, at the end of the day, would be proud of it. And yo, man, we're the first music podcast in the history of Apple to premiere and debut all nine episodes top five. Oh, wow. And it was Drink Champs, You, Million Dollars Worth a Game and Him. Really?

Fucking nine weeks, bro. Wow. Facto. you know and um that's the kind of thing that you know i'm really proud of and my voice isn't all on it and and it can't tell him this story talking about you know the reason that his father went to brooklyn was he drove a bus and the bus company didn't want to pay him so he wound up breaking in and taking his pay not more than he was owed and they went looking for him they were going to hang him so his mother him on a Greyhound and send him to Brooklyn.

Oh, wow. So can you imagine hearing that story and just hearing it, but not hearing the bus and the fucking cash register and the glass breaking and the fucking clan outside the door? So that's how we told the story. And that's his story. It's not mine.

And the other thing, bro, and I just, and I want you to know this. I haven't shared this with a lot of people. He owns that. We don't, my company doesn't own it. We did a long term licensing deal with him. I'm not going to be a fucking culture vulture like a lot of these

motherfuckers in these streets. And I think you and I both know who the fuck I'm talking about. I'm not owning anybody's story. That's his story. He gave me the blessing to tell his story. He gets to keep his story. I'll make his story sound sexy as fuck.

But at the end of 15 years, either we renew the lease or he goes. He moves on with it. Is that challenging to make that work from a business respect? No, not at all. Because it gives me a fucking town line to make money. Okay.

It actually better for all parties. Because I know whatever the budget was, now I have 15 years to make as much money as possible for him and myself. Because we're part in this. So now I got to push the envelope. So we

went from having whatever we had the first time the show went out to having Yulet Packet and GM as sponsors. All right. So whatever money gets made, we split a 50-50. in 15 years God willing he's still alive I'm still alive we get to talk about it

but what I'm not going to do is I'm not going to take these OG stories monetize it and not give him an opportunity to get that shit back that's some culture vulture shit fuck that you know what I'm saying

like you can't be fucking taking OG stories and not giving the option to give it back you can build an empire I don't give a fuck how big your empire is but that's like the old school music business like give the artists the opportunity to get their stories back

and there's culture vultures that fucking did this and shit on motherfuckers you know it's just not right so we're not going to build a company like that it's just not part of our ethos well because you own like a few artists publishing right or a significant part of or like at least people believe that about you no so we're gonna we're gonna clear that up so what you're referring to is Jay-Z

saying, I know who I pay a God, searchlight publishing. Right. And there's a rumor out there that own NAA's publishing. Right. That's not true. Okay. I don't own a penny of Naz's publishing. Right. I administer Nause's publishing. And what that means is

Nause owns his publishing. I have a 5% piece and I sign off every time somebody wants to use Nause's publishing. Right. And that's it. So this isn't like a tradition. style of publishing deal that people get signed to that you signed to back in the day? No.

Okay. Not at all. I have another publishing company called Searchlight Publishing. So we have like Bodie James who's doing all the Griselda shit. That's my man for a hundred years. He used him a while back, yeah. Yeah. That's a more traditional publishing deal, which is a 50-50 co-pub.

However, with his deal, he's allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants. Like we don't chase him for his publishing. Like the record he did with Alchemist, you won't see. You won't see published by, you know, whatever. You know what I'm saying? Go do your thing. I'm very like anti-like, I don't know what even you'd call it, but anti-establishment when it comes to structure.

Right. You know, the ability to tell the story. You grab me that coffee? Sorry. I forgot to grab it after I made it. No, you can keep it on. Okay. No, the ability allow an artist to tell the story without having,

and, you know, think about counting pennies and dimes is just corny to me. Right. Yeah. How do you feel about, just to switch off topic a little bit, but how do you feel about how crazy the reception has been for the new Nause album? And how do you feel about it on a personal level?

I'm so happy for him. Right. I'm so fucking happy for him. I mean, look, Ilmatic should have won a Grammy. Let's just say, just keep it what it is. It took, you know, guys like Chris Lighty, may he rest in peace and Kevin Liles and the industry to catch up to the guys who now propel the culture. And not I propel the culture, it propelled the music business. If you strip away hip-hop from the big labels, they make nothing.

Nothing. Right. What is it? 87% of the music that's being generated profitably in the music business is hip-hop. that high. I think that's again don't quote me. I'm not, but it's pretty high. Sometimes I, one time I was talking to a guy from a label

and he was trying to tell me about some rock band that they had signed, like the biggest, the biggest rock band that they had signed. And he was telling me the numbers that they sold. And it was just like, it was like 5% of what you would think a decent rap. Dude. Let me tell you. Dude.

It's fucking, it's, whoever that dude is, he's not living anywhere near reality. Like, you know, one of favorite alt rock bands is this band pom-pom-pom squad i fucking rep them to death they're sign the city slang records they're out of the bands out of brooklyn they're out of germany i don't know maybe this band does 20 000 streams a week fucking dope as fuck right but it's not for me i i love them because they just the lead singer just she's a fucking bawlsy female who just sings the ass up reminds me of like

Like, it's a mixture for me for like, like, because I grew up on the Smiths and the Cure and all that stuff. So to me, she's very much a combination of like the Smiths meet, you know, Courtney Love. You know what I'm saying? And that's the shit I really enjoy. You know what I'm saying? That's the shit that as a music fan that I love to discover and just, you know, and find and fine music. But with hip hop, you know, you look at it. at the numbers, man. You look at just the pure

numbers. Spotify just announced that on average, they get 40,000 new songs a week. Right. How many you think of those are fucking rap records?

Right? The biggest rap records in the world, Kidler Roy. I mean, like, the biggest records in the world are rap records. You know, Drake, the first quarter alone, does a billion

streams on its catalog. Right. Tell me a rock band. Tell me one rock band that did 50 million streams. Right. I'll give them my fucking watch. You know what I mean?

It feels like you're going to do a victory lap here. Like look, hip-hop one. Yeah, yo, that's fucking right. That's a motherfucking fact though, bro. We fucking won. Like, yo, I'm, you're looking at the only white boy that was in the fucking parks back in the day, bro.

The only other fucking white people were police. You know what I'm saying? Like, yes, man. I'm really doing my victory lap because without hip hop you wouldn't be here so it is the victory lap and it deserves to be

and whether it's Dave or Gator or fucking you know Drake or Kendrick or Jake Cole or Baz or Nas the victory lap deserves to be waived that check of flag needs to be

as big as a fucking flag on the back of a fucking cracker's Trump fucking truck. And the industry, music industry, needs to pay homage to that. And we're still in a situation.

Unfortunately, with all that money being made, you know, what did want or just posted third quarter, $1.6 billion? The artist's only still getting 12%. You know. So, you know, with all the victory laps and all of that, there's still a long way to go for there to be equality and it be, you know, a level of equality there. But, you know, I think it's

on its way. I think it's on its way. I think the artist will, you know, find other ways. One of the other businesses I've started to get involved in is virtual event. Oh, yeah. Because you see the, you know, the amount of just pure commerce that can be made from mutual, you know, those virtual events. So we're going to be announcing some really cool partnerships in the next couple of months on that level. That's what's up. When you, uh, when you talk about, But oh, back to Nas. I got off the publishing. So the whole story about that,

I know who I paid God. You were getting fucked then. I know who I paid God, search like publishing, and Nas line. Right. I was the head of crossover promotion at Def Jam. Jay was about to release reasonable doubt.

Right. He needed to clear a mouth for presidents to represent me off Illmatic. And he came to me, him, I think it was him Dame or him Dame and Biggs. But they said, hey, can you help us clear the sample? And I said, yeah, give me a $2,500 check.

I'll take it over to Zamba, and I'll get the thing cleared, but we're going to take 25% of the publishing from that song. Because it's the chorus. So if you say it four times, we deserve 25%. So I always laugh that he can say all what he wants, but at least Nas owns a piece of Jay's biggest record. Right.

And Jay can't say the same. Right. But no, I don't own Nas' publisher. Right. We were still talking about the Nause album, though, right? We were talking about King's Disease, and we were talking about King's Disease, too. And, yes, I'm not surprised. I love that he's having this.

I just loved the album. I was listening to Nobody with a friend of mine, designer April Walker that was hanging out a couple of days ago. And we were listening to Nobody. If you hear fucking Lauren Hill body that verse. Right. I mean, it's just, it's just so, it's such a beautiful, it's just a beautiful thing. That album is just a beautiful thing.

Right. You know. There's so many artists that sort of like, you know, are mega relevant during their run. And then they just ceased to be relevant, you know, 10, 20 years later, of course, like, hardly anyone is taken seriously at that point. When you listen to that Nas record, man, like, he just sounds like, he's, sounds like a rapper that'll never get old that'll never like if he could keep up whatever the fuck he's doing right now and i know hit boy has a lot to do with it but he just sounds like

modern beyond belief yeah and he he he he i try to tell young artists it's not about what you say it's about the conviction you need to have the conviction in your voice i think most people can write a really powerful line it's just how you have the conviction to say it. Oh, yeah. And make it believable, right? Because that's what makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up. When they say something that is so relatable to you that you're like, man, I fucking

felt that way yesterday. Mm-hmm. You know? And there's a lot of power, honestly, not that Nause is really this, but you could say the silliest thing as a rapper. You could say the dumbest brag. But if you just deliver it with that sincerity and that enthusiasm, it could just mean the world.

Nas is a guy who's like really saying some shit a lot of the time, you know, but yeah, this is something for that. Yeah, and do them the same way. People, I mean, he said the most crazy, comical, comedic, graphic novel, but he said it in a way that was so fly that it was like, damn, like, how does a motherfucker think like that? You know, how does a dude put words together like that? you know, Yassine Bay, like, every month on YouTube is now doing a verse from Dune, you know. It's just, you know, it's just this certain artists, even when you're listening to, like,

you know, a Juice World record. Like, the thing that was so amazing about Juice World and the sad part about it is he even, he never even got to the apex of his emotional scope. Like, he was just touching the surface of that. You know, Triple Extentione, the same thing. Like, he was just about, to get to the crux of where his emotional epicenter may have been and it gets cut short and you know I don't know how you feel about it but it's a fucking tragedy man that like these young boys have

no respect for life oh yeah it's bad you know it's it's bad and I don't know where the middle ground is I don't know where the OGs are to stop that shit but it's just it's crazy to me yeah like even just in New York alone It's unbelievable how much killing you've seen.

And, I mean, Chicago's obviously, like, by far the epicenter of it. But, yeah, like, the loss of respect for human life has been really astonishing. And, I mean, the way the X out is extremely indicative of that, you know. It's just purely, like, some dudes who wanted some money, wanted some valuables. So they were ready to just pull the trigger on somebody over it in, like, you know. Pop smoke, the same thing. Pop smoke. Same. Pop smoke wasn't particularly bad.

I mean, they showed up this fucking guy's house. He was in the shower. And now and even now recently with, you know, with Nas losing his friend Mike, you know, Ice Te, you know, the guy, they followed him to his house. Yeah. You know, like, it's just, um, it's senseless and it's sad. And, and, um, I don't know how it stops.

I really don't. I'm really Alicia Silverstone clueless on how to make it stop. You know, but I'm hoping somebody figures it out because I remember one time, and this was a long time ago, there was some, you know, bad blood and hip hop and Farrakhan brought a lot of the emcees together. Right. Tom and an Ice Cube and Method Man. And he started talking to the emcees about like how they were utilizing words and language, right? Like calling each other dog, which is backwards for God because there was no. There was no regard for them as men of God.

Right. You know what I'm saying? And, like, calling women ma because there was no, like, connection to the mother. And, you know, he just broke shit down that, like, it was amazing. And these were young dudes that were, like, 26, 27, 28. But a lot of them had knowledge of self. Like, a lot of them were God body. So a lot of them had knowledge of self.

So there was, they were being spoken to in a way that was, like, communicative. Like, if you're, you know, Like you said, if you were talking about BMX to a bunch of BMX guys about how to not dismantle the culture of BMX riding, you could do a lot of analogies that would relate to those skaters and to those riders. I don't know how to connect. Like, I don't know where to connect the dots is for a banger

to talk to these kids and say it on a level that's like, look, is it a money thing? Like, I just don't know, but the King Vaughn. thing like even with the King Vaughn thing the dude I guess either allegedly or not the dude that was involved in that like he left prison they murked him right outside

the jail like you're stifling the ability to rehabilitate and you're stifling the ability to reconcile and make amends and you don't know the power the pure power of what that could mean for the community you don't know what the fucking

power could be if fucking guys are able to sit at the table and break bread for real. Right. You lose that perspective. And then the only thing that's left is, well, I fucking got rid of that shit. So my life feels better. I feel lighter or whatever.

I don't know what the conversation is because I'm not killing anybody, but it's just fucking crazy to me, bro. Like, just to put in perspective, when I was interviewing Halrell and J.R. right earlier, and this is like, you know, their careers at being, you know, sort of starting maybe about 20 years ago or so. I said to him, I'm like, In your entire rap career, I don't think you guys ever mentioned your enemy or someone you had a beef with on the street in a song. Unless it was somebody who was a prominent rapper, then you would maybe say something about somebody, but there wasn't even that much of that.

And I'm saying, like, think about that where, like, all the popular rappers in a certain subsect of hip hop are basically, like, acknowledging these, like, street rivalries. And it must be kind of bizarre for you as somebody who is really there for like the formation of rap to see rap music becoming the venue for all that. Yeah. And I mean, I think about that Indian Red situation where the kid, you know, like, kill a guy live on Instagram. Like, are we really? Is that where we're fucking at right now? I've seen so many people get shot on Instagram live. It's just like the most normal thing.

Like, countless. It's like almost like I'm not going to click if I see another one on the feed because it's just sort of. I'm just sort of numb to it, you know? That alone is so sad. Like, but also, there needs to be a level of awareness at some point, man, that we consciously, not disregard, but consciously have to figure out a way to regroup, right? To reset. But going back to your question, look, we have beef all the time, you know.

But, you know, one of the things I laugh about is like, you know, our East Coast, West Coast, before Pock and Biggie was, you know, MC Shan and KRS 1, right? South Bronx versus, you know, Queensbridge. And I got pictures. And not just me, but there's pictures

of like, okay, like one radio station, WBLS in New York, that was all, you know, that was all MC Shannon Juice crew. And Kiss FM was all, you know, BDP. But then we'd all be in the line quarter drinking, hanging out.

you know and the streets were talking the streets were doing whatever but dudes would do shows and even to this day kRS and shan do shows together right i don't know if it was because they were less or more gangster or less or more affiliated so it was a different mindset but fast forward like we went to naz album parties that like i'm watching jungle and like having shootouts in the club you know um right after um street teams went out like we were at an album release party and like there's just there's jungle and some other dudes and there's just gunfire now i'm not saying i wasn't you know that's happened to the land quarter every fucking friday the original 50 cent the original megatron like all those dudes decepticons they would pull me and be like yo i need you to come off the fucking dance floor

search it's about to go down you know and um i was always pretty protected by those dudes, but like, it's not like, it's not uncommon in hip hop to feel gunfire and feel that sense of like uneasiness. And, you know, one of the very first battles ever had when I, when I serve some duties, he tried to kill me. You know, I was holding a big crown amp. The amp cracked in my hand because the guy was aiming a 25 at me. You know what I'm saying? And if it wasn't for that crown amp that I was carrying, I'd be dead, you know? and that was he was mad because I was a white boy who smoked him in his project you know um so it's not uncommon but that same dude we made peace I don't know when I don't know how but you know we made peace with it right you know um so I just you know my concern is that they're just not

finding a way to make peace with this right yeah it's just it's weird how how much rap kind of aggravates it where it's like people who wouldn't really have a reason to beef with each other. Now it's like the incentive is that they know that if they have a problem with somebody and they carry it out through music, that that content will be more compelling. I feel like that in and of itself is like a reason to have problems with people because they sort of inherently know that there's compelling content for the audience to come from that. Yeah. I mean even when you look at like the verses between dipset and and you know and um and the locks it's like the thing that seems almost impossible to get people to do which is like pay attention to rappers who are in their 40s

is attained consistently through verses just by introducing the element of adversity right and it was so funny because people felt that because the tension of these guys doing this on stage like over a sudden you had a hundred heads because they're like oh it's about to pop off and they literally had to be like, yo, everything's cool. Like, everybody get off the stage. This is all love. We knew we were going to get at each other. Like, yada, da, da, da. And it's funny because I texted Jim Jones three days before the battle.

I was like, dude, please watch the Jada Kiss fabulous battle on verses. They're strategic. You have more hits. They're strategic. They're going to come at you strategic. And he sent me, he's like, no, no, no, I got you. I got you. So I figured, okay.

So Cam, Jules, they're going to, you know. And it's funny because on the hat I got, shout out to Far Rock Shop, you know, on the back of the hat, it's Stacks and it's chinks. And I thought about it. I was talking to Ben Baller about it too because he was in the audience. I was like, man, it would have been so dope if Stack was on stage with Cam and those guys. Like fucking Far Rock on the map. Like we would have fucking lost our minds, you know what I mean? like I had just had hip surgery and I couldn't be at Madison Square Garden.

I would have been in the front row. I would have been in the front row. But if Stacks was there, reping Far Rockaway, reping dipset, like, oh my God, man, I would have been losing my fucking mind, bro. You know, I would have been losing my mind. And those are the things. Like when I think about chinks, I listen to Welcome to JFK almost every day. Like that album to me and that whole Riot Squad,

like what they could have been you know what i'm saying like just it's just early on for me 05 06 oh 7 that whole loss of life just it's just you know and it also it just makes me wonder like how is this dude takashi still fucking alive bro like how is a dude who fucking rats on trayway how to fuck how to fuck are you alive bro because that was the like when we were coming up i mean it's and all that it's stitches get stitches But it pivoted on the low. It was like stitches get ditches. You know, snitches get ditches.

Like, how is that fucking do it alive? You know? All these other young men are dying. This dude's running around the streets crazy, talking reckless, and he's alive. That's a lot harder to kill a famous guy. A lot more attention on him. I guess so. I guess so.

I mean, like, thinking about it, if somebody's like... And just so I'm clear, I really want to put this out there. I don't wish harm. No, of course not. I want him to have a long career. I want him to have a healthy career. Preferably not as a rapper? I mean, I think he's not a rapper now.

I think he's an influencer. I think, you know, I don't know a single song he's ever done. I just see him as an incredible personality. And he's created a way in his own ecosystem to be this huge personality. But I don't consider him. a rapper and I damn sure I don't consider him an MC. Right. You know, but he's done an amazing job of creating a huge ecosystem around him that almost

lives in a vacuum. Yeah. You know, where he's able to monetize, generate money, socialize, do these things, and be incredibly protected. Yeah. God bless him. And God bless his mother for not having to bury a son. And God bless him for continuing to take care of his family.

so I don't wish any ill will on that dude like I don't know home boys so I don't but it just where we came from if you drop dime on a group as large as trayway in the five boroughs you know we just

just come from a different place I guess yeah I mean but I still I feel like you know if you are tied to the sort of the roots of rap or the street part of rap. I mean, the fact that he's been like basically ostracized from all corners of rap music aside from like a Nicki feature. I mean, if you do care about like, you know, certain moral standards and rap and all this kind of stuff, I mean, I would think that has to be

a little heartening that like if you go through his Instagram comments, like you can't find a like a rapper. You'll see some Instagram influencers and such. But yeah, I mean hip hop is really kind of turn their back on them. And, you know, again, you're making an assumption that I'm checking his Instagram like that. No, yeah, I mean, feel free to not do that. But if you work, thank you. Thank you, because that is my facto right now. I'm not, he is not someone I follow on any social media. Right. You know, um, who are you listening to right now? Because I, I, I, I wanted to ask you, who are your favorite, what are you checking for right now? Because I, I would love to put you up on some shit, but I'm just, you know, but I'm, I'm, I really, I think you're

ear is great. It's funny because sometimes I'm so just caught in the cycle of, you know, doing five interviews a week and I got to listen to those rappers, new albums, and I got to, you know, sort of stay in the loop. I'm listening to the old albums. I'll listen to the fucking hell roll albums from, you know, forever ago. That a lot of times then I become sort of blind to the stuff that I'm not doing coverage on, like, you know, clear time. We're listening to the Nas album, a bunch of times. But, I mean, you know, it's like I don't, sometimes I feel like I'm not really doing as good a job as I could be doing at really like listening to the shit that I actually like, you know, like I'm less in touch with what I'm actually feeling these days.

It's interesting that you just said I'm not on my job because in the interview you did with Sway, you said it's your passion. It's your passion to listen to music and now you're saying it's your job. And it's just for me, it's just I'm hearing, you know, obviously wordplay is a big thing for me, but I think there's a lot of truth behind words. And maybe you're not listening because you now see it as a job and not as a passion. Well, yeah, it's like I have to do so much of the job part, which is like, you know, oh, there's a schedule. Boom. There's these rappers I have to know about and I have to listen to their music that then like the rest of my time, a lot of times I don't end up like dedicating to just listening to music for pleasure, you know, just because it's like there's only so much music I can't really listen to.

And I wouldn't say that like the music is my passion. I would say that the rappers are my passion in the sense of like having conversations with. and exposing them. Like, I like the music for sure, but I can totally have, like, a great interview with somebody without giving a fuck about their music at all as long as I find their, like, character. Like me.

Like me. I'm a fan. You know, I've always, like, known of your music. No, no, no. But to be honest, I didn't self-deprecating Jewish, erotic queen shit right now. Like, to get ready for this, I watched the entire Vlad interview.

I watched almost all of the drinks interview. Oh, really? Don't ever fucking do that again. No. Don't ever fucking do that again. Oh, God. I'm not going to engage with that. No, don't.

I mean, it's just I'm saying he's a culture vulture and fuck him because that entire interview happened because he lied to me. What, what do you mean? I was in the process of doing a go fund me for my book. I was going to self-publish a book. Right. And he had been bothering me for years to do an interview. And he promised me that the link for the go-fund me would be on the screen. Okay.

And he manipulated the truth because it was on the screen. And if you scroll down the words to the very fucking bottom description of my entire thing, there was a link on the bottom. Okay. And it didn't move the needle at all. Meanwhile, he's bragging about how he got the largest and the longest MC search interview and went and talked to this one and this one and that one. And when I asked him for my content back, he said no.

Oh, geez. So you guys fell out at that moment? I don't take his calls. His number is blocked in my phone. Oh, that's too bad. And it's not me. It's not just me. And listen.

I always say this to people my issue with somebody, obviously is not your issue and I'm sorry if that made you feel uncomfortable anyway because it could be your people and God bless you, you might not have to, you know, whatever, but for me, you know, for me

it's more about just being honest and I don't think the dude's an honest dude and I think that, you know, when you're dishonest, I think that shit is bullshit. And when you come from where he comes from, you know, with Justo and the Justo Awards and coming from where he came from the streets and watching the streets

embrace him and him building something, he should have more ethics. Well, yeah, I mean, as far as... But I understand, and listen, it's a... The watching that Vlad interview, you're going to learn a lot about me because I shared a lot about myself because my intention was, oh, this is going to be a great avenue to reach a lot of people and hopefully raise the money I needed to tell my book. But now I have a deal and I have an agent. and I'm going to write my memoir in the right way.

But at that time, and I tell people, I do it Dave Chappelle all the time. I say, please, if you're a fan of mine at all, if you give a fuck about anything I've ever done, please don't watch that interview. Okay. Please don't watch it. Watch the Drink Champs One. Watch with Norrie. That's just as good.

Please don't fucking watch that interview. Fair enough. But anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt. Oh, no. I was just saying, and shout out to Vlad, But one of the things that I loved about what you've done, at least, and maybe this was early on and again, because you've now gotten to a certain place in your career, you did talk to artists that you love. I mean, you know, you said it on the sway interview. You've said it on other interviews.

You know, the impetus of what you did is you spoke to artists that you loved because it was, A, you didn't feel like they were getting the shine that you felt like, and it was because you fucking loved these artists. Right. And it just, you know, again, it's just, it's listen, it's with everything else. You get to a point, there's money to be made, there's a family to take care of a beautiful daughter now. Like, you know, so it becomes a job, right? Right. But my hope for you is that you never lose the passion of listening to the music. Oh, no.

You know what I'm saying? Because that's the beautiful part about why you and I sit in here. Right. Like, I'm going to jump in my car. My man Keen Streets just sent me like three new joints that he did with Jim. Like, I can't fucking wait to hit him shit. Bobby J. from Rockaway just dropped Montauk. I can't wait to hear that shit.

Blanc Lafina just dropped some hot shit. I love, and I'm not involved in any of these artists. They're not being distributed by me. I'm just a fucking fan. I love music. And whether we distribute them or not or whether we work with them or not is irrelevant. O.T. to Rio, put out a fucking crazy-ass album.

I'm just a fan of the music. And if I get a chance to interview people, it's obviously still based on fandom, but it's just a different balance for me I guess at this point in my life it's like I don't do what I do for search says and and that because I'm trying to create an interview or kind of create I can still listen to shit just be a fan you know what I'm saying and also being able to tell stories is about like getting to know the artist through the music right because they're being their most vulnerable

in telling their stories through the music when you first get to know them. You know, one thing I find interesting is that I very much like got into doing podcasts because I wanted to have conversations with rappers about their lives. And sometimes when I listen to rapper's music, it'll just really stand out to me that I could listen to like a rapper's whole project and feel like I have learned absolutely nothing about their life. Right, because the imagination. of what they want to aspire to versus when they come from the dichotomy is as wide as a football field.

Right. Or even especially like if you know basically like what circumstances they're coming from, it's like. Right. You know, and sometimes I can listen to a whole rapper's interview and really feel like I haven't learned anything or even do an interview and like really actually try to make the person interesting. And it's just like sometimes the ability to make popular music is like. completely separated from the ability to be an actual engaging public figure. Right. My wife will give me a pep talk before I go into every interview.

And she'll say, be honest, be open, and listen. Right. So the question I want to ask you, obviously, because you started this before you got married, does your wife give you an advice before you go into interviews today? Technically, I'm engaged. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's all good. No.

Because, I mean, to be honest, a lot of weeks I'll be doing like nine fucking interviews for like an hour or two each. Right. So it's like, if anything in my head, I try to not talk about it before I'm doing it. I try to like minimize, you know, I have to be prepared, but I also try to like minimize the intensity. Because, you know, originally when I'd be going into do an interview, I'd be feeling like a fucking boxer. Like I'm like preparing for this battle of words that I need to like hype myself up for. And I think that like over time, I've realized that the more relaxed with it I am, the better that it can ultimately be. Because like, were you surprised when corrupt came at you the way he came at you?

Because the question was a very, I thought, well, I wouldn't say benign, but it wasn't, as you framed it, spicy. It was not a spicy question. And his analogy of how he heard it versus the Tupac. Right. We used shocked by that? I kind of like had seen enough corrupt interviews to realize that he kind of likes to do this thing where he just like lets loose on the interviewer a little bit. Gotcha. He did it to Vlad talking about that Kendrick bar.

He did it to Charlemagne talking about, fuck, it's slipping my mind. But he always will do this thing in interviews where he gets sort of like intense and just sort of like man's up on the interviewer real quick. And then falls back. Yeah, and like always it's then pretty clear that like, but it's weird because it doesn't feel fake. It actually feels like impassioned. Dude, I'll tell you a funny story. But like with that one in particular, it was super obvious that he was like trying to get me to take the bait. And within moments, it was like, he was just laughing.

Right. He was like, it was obvious that like, why would we possibly be actually arguing over like which rapper is the most important? It's like a very silly thing. But then also, we edited it for the TikTok or the Instagram reel or whatever. And like, you know, we cut the Instagram clip and titled it to make it seem like he was actually mad. And we sort of like remove the context in the TikTok and everything. So it does like it. It is kind of funny having so many people act to be as if it was like a really intense conflict.

When if you actually watch it in the thing, it's no, no, no. No, no. Yeah. I'll tell you a funny story. I've actually never told anyone. I had a business partner who worked. worked with Donald Trump. Real estate.

Jeffrey Epstein. No. Thanks for connecting the Jews, though. No connection to the Jews, by the way. Sorry, Jewish New Yorkers, keep it moving. Just to guess. Yeah, just that's fun. But well played.

So he said that when he would go into meetings with Trump, no matter what the meeting was, the table would be set at the conference table. And John Doe was across the table. Trump would come in. and the first thing Trump would come in is slam his hand on the table as loud as he could

and say this deal is bullshit I don't give a fuck about this deal this deal is bullshit and when I come back this thing better be fucking fixed and he just stormed out and slammed the door Trump would do this all the time all the time and then come back in and go hey how are you

Donald Trump let's uh the craziest most psychotic shit you've ever he said it was the most psychotic shit he ever witnessed. And this guy became our fucking president. Wow. Like, can you imagine, like, if I walked into this interview, and the first thing I said, never meeting you before is,

you bet a fuck, and I'm going to come back and you bet. You'd be like, yo, what the fuck is wrong with that asshole? Like, you know, in fact, Laura, walk him out. Like, I don't even want to fucking do the interview. Right. You know? And the other thing I wanted to share with you, but those people are coming to Trump,

like he's a fucking king. Benifactor who could make their wildest dreams come true. So he's very much in the position to do that. And there's a fucking Florida fucking war chest for Governor DeSantis of $140 million that these fucking Trump fanatics are fucking funding. Like it's crazy, bro. Like crazy. So the other thing I wanted to just tell you is

I had a little fun based on this TikTok thing recently with Fat Joe. Yesterday's price is not today's price. Yesterday's price is not today's price. I'm not on TikTok like that. I think I got like 200 follow. Like something stupid.

But I like TikTok because I honestly, the reason I watch TikTok is for hip-hop shit, A, B is I like woodworking and I love these fucking tables with the resin like I'm trying to buy

every fucking table because my wife and I are building a house in Florida so I'm looking for like furniture and shit like that and then the other reason is broadcast boys I fucking love those dudes

like I don't know if you're up on the broadcast boys fucking Lucas and and deuce deuce yo those two dudes are the funniest fucking two guys on TikTok funny as two dudes

like Lucas will do shit on like the fucking playboy life of 50 cent the fucking criminal life of this one is funny as fuck and then dudes dudes does shit on sports okay like the draft of 2007 where are they now or my favorite one most recently is regular motherfuckers who look like jZ he's like oh and here's the broke j z trying to fucking thirst drive some bitch on beach and here's the those two dudes are hysterical So I would suggest get up on them. So I did this thing with the split screen. Yesterday's price is not today's price.

And I'm like this. I'm like, so is yesterday's price today's price? And yesterday's price is not today's price. So is yesterday's price today's price? It blows up on my TikTok. I get like, you know, whatever I'm out. And I'm looking through the fucking people who are checking. And of all the things I see is this white guy who,

says, ah, another white guy who's confused by the fact that a brother's trying to set the fucking tone for economy, you fucking ignorant devil. And I'm like, but you're white and you don't know that I know fat Joe, and you don't know this is a joke. So thanks for visiting. But the point I'm trying to make in all of that is, bro, is the obscenity, and it's truly obscenity that people, like I said, the spiciness of the interview, they're seeing things in bite-size scenarios and taking it to mean, you know, like you took the line from Jay-Z, thinking that I own Nause's publishing. Just not true. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's how people consume information these days. Like, we do the thing that you're used to the media doing to the, to you?

You know, where if, like, you said something in an interview and there was a way to twist it and make it, oh, search is a racist, search as an asshole, whatever. The media would gladly do that to you at some point. They did that to me on Clubhouse. Fucking Van Lathen. Fucking did that. It wasn't what I said is I went into a room on Clubhouse that Van was hosting with Mouse Jones. And they were talking about something and they asked me about my opinion. and I come from a place where I was raised and how I was brought up,

regardless of I was, you know, a Jewish kid. The kids I grew up with, I recognized and saw that they believed and I believed in what they believed that black man has God on the planet Earth. Because I grew up with a lot of my friends, like my closest friends, bro, were from Redfern projects whose names were government names and became Lord Jamar, law, understanding mathematics, you know, be our self. And like, I would troop with them from Redfern to Mecca on 125th Street. So and in my conversation in this room, I said, and in the same way, I understand that white people are visitors in hip hop. I also feel it's important for me

to share that what we're doing on television with like that. love in hip hop and love in hip hop Miami is a fucking travesty to the culture. And these men and women, oh no, no, no, no. See, you white men, you don't have the right.

You can't talk about living hip-hop. You can't talk about black people on television. You don't have the right. And this dude, Malice Jones was, every time I try to say something, he was like, ah, your voice is getting a little husky, homie, you might want to relax.

And I'm like, you don't even know me, first of all. And we're getting bully on Clubhouse. And I was trying to simply hear the conversation. And I understand that the temperament is very sensitive in the marketplace. Right. And when I say marketplace, I mean the world. Like, I'm not talking about hip hop as a, you know, talking about with everything that's going on.

Right. And the attitude was I became the white punching. back. And at one point somebody said to me, I need to know how official search is. Search is gold front hip hop, yes or no? And I said, no. And I said, you know what?

I think I'm going to give my spot up for somebody else. So thank you for having me in here. And I bounced. And I found out later through friends of mine that, you know, they were having side conversations like, why search allowing himself to be fucking tagged like this and like, fuck

these dudes? And you know, nah, nah, nah. And it's very simple why I just stayed there. Because I feel like I'm the only one in a lot of times in these rooms that can handle the conversation. Right. Without losing my tempo, without taking it personally. Yeah. Because I understand where it comes from.

I understand where the frustration comes from. But I also understand that I'm entitled my opinion because I'm a human being. First and foremost. And I was very much a part of the growth of this culture. I might not have been so deep that I built because that would be crazy, but I was a part of, you know, an early iteration of what the culture became. So I feel like I have an opinion. And the next day I hit Van Latham and I'm like, yo, I appreciate you having me in the room.

And he hit me back. He goes, search. He goes, you've got to just understand, man, like, we are scared. we're scared about what's going on we're fearful of our lives and i get it man i get it you know i've had situations with my children who are multicultural where you know cops pulled guns on them in fucking gated communities you know what i'm saying so i get it i can't relate to it because i'm a white man i got pulled over coming here i didn't get shot you know i didn't you know nothing bad happened to me but easily it could have

been fucking something else if I was black. You know, so I get it. But at the same time, I'm not going to let somebody shit on me just because I'm the punching bag in a room. Attack the content of the ideas, not the person. You know, if you want to have an intelligent debate. And I mean, to be honest, I feel very comfortable saying that I think that there's very much a debate to be had about the validity of love and hip-hop and how it sometimes like unfairly

frames their participants. I've had people say that to me because I've watched a little bit of it. I've had people ask me, like, do you think that it's actually like good for the black community, loving hip-hop? And I'm not really willing to go with one way or another because I feel like it's so

beloved by people that it obviously just satisfies some itch that people just want scratched. Yeah, but you know what? I think about Mona Scott, who's the executive producer, and I think about, man, what would Chris Lydie say if he was alive, may he rest in peace? Because you know, I don't know how Chris would feel about it.

You know, Chris and I go back to when he was carrying craze for red alert in his wife, Maximum, like Chris and I were trooped down I-95 to see his dad who was a cop in Baltimore. Right. You know, like, I was family. It wasn't even the guy I knew in the industry. Like, he was family, you know. And his death hit me hard. Like, it hit me hard.

And I just wonder if even Mona Scott and Chris would be pardoned. if that was the route you went or I don't know I don't have the answer but the thing about love and hip-hop is that all the things that you hate about it are basically what makes it a popular TV show course it's it's a soap opera we wouldn't even be talking about it if it was tame and tasteful no and if people got to you know fairly promote their music career same reason people loved the white rapper show oh man you knew I was going to bring that up huh you know what I'm saying it's the same no I didn't know but I mean it's the same people I got to pee real quick but then let's definitely talk about that.

Let me tell you, fuck you. I'm leaving. I'm fucking, listen, you don't fucking walk out of here on me, pal. You better come back and have all the answers. So let me just paint the picture for you. Okay. It was 2004 and I was in my second year of college. I went to UMass Lowell.

I was living on campus for this one year. Did you know a guy named Mark Williams played football cornerback? No. If you were asked me that, about literally anyone that I went to school with, I would have to say no as well. So I might have known him. Who knows? Now, he was my partner in Nouveau, my liquor company.

He went to, D1. He grew up with the locks and he played UMass. Oh, geez, okay. But I didn't have a TV in my fucking dorm room, obviously. But, you know, about once a week on average, I would make it back to my parents' house to, you know, check in and see what's going on. And every single week, I would make sure that I caught up on the white rapper show. It was literally the only TV show

that I cared about at that point in my life and I would, and I think actually maybe at a certain point it was the first time that I had ever downloaded an entire TV show off of a torrenting website because I needed to see an episode so expeditiously

found it unbelievably compelling at that point of my life. Thank you. I think not even just because I was a white rap fan. Incredible show. How did this come about? Please give me some insight. information on how this all came together.

The White Rapper's show. You know, it's 7 o'clock. I'm sorry, I got to go. This is the White Rapper Show. I didn't know it's going to go this long. I'm so sorry. We can go all night, pause. That's what she said. Instead of pause, can we do that's what she said?

I'll go for an old school, no homo. Or a yo. Yeah, now that's a good one. Can I get a fist pump on that? Because I haven't heard a yo. since, when you hear a whole room full of people do it? That's when you know you said something gay, yeah.

Or pause, homie, pause. That was an old one too. I have friends who just hang their head in shame at some of the stuff that I say, yeah. My wife does this one. She gives me this look. I got a African-American, Puerto Rican wife

for 33 years out of Queens, and it's real simple. It's this look. And then I know not only not to say it, but never say it again no matter where. So I'm in Detroit doing radio. The first non-African American to host WJLB's morning show. Right.

Super friendly with all the guys from EgoTrip, because they're all from Queens and they're all my friend. Which at the time was a very relevant magazine slash media company? No, it wasn't media yet. It was a magazine. Just a magazine. Okay. And Sasha Jenkins calls me and says, look, we're shooting a pilot.

I need you to come to New York. And I couldn't really get away from radio because I'm doing the morning show. But somehow I convinced my program director to allow me the week that I needed to do the morning show from Powers, from IHeart Station in New York, and allow me to shoot this pilot. And I go to shoot the pilot, and it's me and Prince Paul, we're the hos and co-host. and it's five rappers living in this fucked-up house in Brooklyn, and we're judging them on three different things that they're doing. And they get split up into teams. And I remember calling my wife the first night,

and I said, honey, this is about to be the fucking craziest show on television. And she said, what's going on? I said, I can't tell you. They got me under fucking some crazy NDA, but when I come home yo Sasha and fucking Yen Elliot Wilson used to call them YN

I love that nickname by the way I'm sorry I love that nickname yeah I love that name I'm like I'm like YN yo they got the craziest show this shit's about to be crazy so I do the first I do the pilot and the funny thing was

during the pilot and this is something you didn't see on TV during the pilot when I'm about to give somebody the door the step off, this dude just steps up and quits the pilot, thinking that it's actually the show. Like, you know what? I quit.

Goes outside and the cameras follow him and starts to freestyle about what kind of piece of shit I am. And I fucking go out there. And I'm like, yo, you want it? Like, we can go. Like, we can go head to head. He's like, nah, you had your time back in 90. We'll battle on New Year's.

You know, we'll make it a big event. I'm like, no, we'll battle right now. And I just started ramen, whatever. And three months later, four months later, I get fired from JLB. I breached my contract. I did something that I'm not proud of. And a month, three or four months later, I get a call that the show got picked up. And we shot it.

in the summer of New York. And basically, that's how the show happened. Like, I would love to say, like, I had some kind of creative input in it. I had none. It was all EgoTrip. It was all those guys. It was all YN., Gabe, Brent Rollins, Sasha, Jim Ackerman, Christian McLaughlin from VH1, and this amazing crew. Right.

And this amazing cast. You were just seen as the most. respected white rapper elder statesman that they could use at that time? I think I was the only one. Yeah, it was not a lot of... I think that was the only one. A lot of baggage with most of the other ones, yeah. Yeah.

And, um, yeah, and, and, and, you know, I just, the thing that was crazy is the first episode, they started to give me like an earwig and like, oh, we're going to feed you information. I'm like, just tell me what I need to. Like, can you? I don't need all this. Just tell me what I need to do. They're like, all right, this is going to happen,

and the rapper's going to be there, and you're going to say this, and then that's going to be it. I said, cool. They said, you're sure you don't need none in here? Got it. And I did it. And what you see on the first episode,

and I'm like, I don't care what the fuck we put you through, yada, da, da, da, this, and this. That was all one take, done. I go back to the room, control room, and Jim Ackerman, who was at the time the head of program, I mean, it's got tears in his eyes. And he says, I've been doing this for a long time.

That was the best TV ever saw. Wow. And a month later, Ken Mock, who was the production company, says, how do you feel about doing a talk show called Search? And within six months, I had a deal at Universal Pictures to do my own talk show. Wow. And it was all because of the white rapper show. Right.

You know, and fast forward now to 2021, YN put something up about the anniversary of the white rapper show and it started all this thing. Oh, John Brown should have won. What happened to? It was a person. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to get the crew together and do a reunion on search says. Oh, really? We did a two-part.

Oh, fuck. I wish I saw that before I did this. It's on my YouTube. God damn. It's on my YouTube. That's amazing. Yeah. So I had John Boy.

I had just rhyme I had shamrock 100 proof just talking about the show talking about all that shit yeah I had five of the 10 on the show at least some of the conversation

about the white rabbit show when it popped up recently was just that you know it would be hard to imagine it occurring in today's social climate to say the least did you have any of those concerns at the time to stand out to you

that this was sort of bizarre or was it? At the time, white rappers were so rare in rap that it was like, how could you not do a show about these freaks? It was not only... They're unicorns, man. It was not only rare, but the period of time before it was that, oh, I'm naughty by nature,

and we need a white rapper. We'll grab milk phone. Oh, we're a fucking successful black rap group. We'll grab Jojo Pellegrino. It was like every successful black rap group needed a white rapper. It's like everybody should have, one. Because all these dudes

who come from like street backgrounds or whatever they're all clever fucking businessmen. They're all like used to really having a hustle. So to them like the idea of like it's the same reason why they all have a girl rapper. Because they just see it as like low hanging fruit. It turns out it's actually incredibly difficult to execute

without question. It's worth a shot. And one of my favorite stories about aftermath. Right. One of my dear friends, shout out to James Lopez who runs Will Packers company and did marketing for Atlantic for years. He was the head of marketing at Aftermath, and Dre comes in, and he says,

the first artists were going to put out. Now, mind you, I don't think you remember this. Probably don't. It was the first time in the history of radio that Aftermath had a national platform. When Dre announced Aftermath, he was interviewed by Angie Martinez, it was syndicated. Right.

Emmis allowed, it was on fucking like a hundred stations. And he was playing this group, in this group, and this group, and this group. And it was crickets, bro. It was fucking crickets. Everything that Dre played, he played the firm. That was the last thing he played was the firm. Right. Because, I mean, his project around that time tanked as well.

Terrible. Yeah. Including the firm. He really took a step back stylistically from what he had been doing before. But to have that ability, to have that stature to do a nationally promoting. thing about Aftermath and Dr. Dre, the great Dr. Dre, and have like it just not be what it is, right? Right. So fast forward and Dre comes into a meeting at Aftermath.

This is, you know, I'm hearing the second hand, by the way. I'm not saying that I was in the room. Right. And Dre announces that he's the first record he's putting out his M&M. And all of the black executives are like, no! What the fucking what? What? Like literally losing their minds.

Right. And obviously we all know how that turned out. But it's easy to see how they would have felt that way because they're like, we're expecting a return to form. We want you to go back to the chronic. We don't want this lyrical fucking white kid. And it's not even lyrical, non-lurical. We don't want white blank.

And obviously we're talking about an anomaly of an MC. Now, right, fast forward 20-some years, he's still fucking bodying verses, right? So the white rapper show was basically easy, low-hanging fruit, in your words, because from 1997 to 2007, when our show was on, there was one. So it was easy. We just put it out there. We're going to find the next great white hope. But that's not what the show was about. It was a social experiment to show how far our culture came from 1520,

Cedric Boulevard to fucking dudes who listen to fucking Alabama who don't know what Run's house was. And I love those dudes. Like we've talked about it on the podcast when we did the reunion. I had to pretend like I hated those kids. I fucking loved those kids. They were great kids. But, and that's the but, the television channel was that,

we had to show them for who they were, not what they wanted to be, right? And what they wanted to be and who they were were were were two totally separate things. For us, meaning Ego Trip, VH1, the white rapper show, it was about how far did they fall? You got a kid like, you know, hallelujah, haliback, John Brown, who's creating business cards and putting his name on it. So when he goes to dinner with Jules Santana, he's hanging in him a full guy. gazee business car. Like it's the craziest shit. It's Persia getting drunk

and waving a black dildo. You know, it was the, it was, it was, it was, it was a zeitgeist. It was really a zeitgeist. It was lightning in a bottle. We were the number one show on television, 1849, every week that we were on. The premiere was the largest, most

viewed show for like five years on VH1. It was crazy. Right. But there was never going to be a second season. Really? No, no. Because, because it wasn't a competition show. It was a social experiment.

But at least within that framework, I mean, it wouldn't have probably been that hard to find like eight more funny white rappers to make content out of it. But I will tell you, if you watch, and I hope you become a fan of my podcast the way I am of yours, because I think you'll enjoy a lot of the interviews I've had. I've had Chris Mark, Chris Rock,

Kamal Bell, Method Man, John Cryer, Roger Clemens. You know, we've had some really great talent. But I think for you being a white rapper fan, I think you would really enjoy that. I got a lot of at least those reunion episodes for sure. And there's two. There's a part one and a part two. The one thing that really resonated with all of them is that they saw this as their shot. They really did. And the one guy who really got it, got it was Shamrock. Like, because Shamrock legitimately not only who won the show, he was a legitimate writer, producer, went back to, you know,

Atlanta, worked with all the right people, made music, continued to make music, and is still in music to this day, behind the scenes. So, you know, yeah, could there have been, but there was no reason to because the functionality wasn't like, okay, we're going to watch Shamrock explode, and now we've got to find the next one. It was a social experiment. It's all it was. And then we did Miss Rap Supreme, and YoYo and that show was also amazing. We had cayon and, you know, Biatta and, you know, but it didn't stick because it was three years before Nikki.

If Nikki would have blown up in 2010, Miss Rap Supreme would have been a fucking monster show. We were three years too early for that show. It's interesting how, like, that was a real time period for hip-hop reality TV because everybody remembers the band so fondly. But I think it's pretty much most people would kind of agree that it would be tough to recreate that same energy again. Oh, yeah, no. I think it's, you know, you know, I know this is like a real Hollywood word zeitgeist, right? But you create the zeitgeist. It's lightning in a bottle.

Like you can't recreate that lightning in a bottle, right? Like you have a great moment and what happens in that moment. It's great timing. It's great perspective. It's great opinion. And it just lands where it lands, right? And it's like that it's that perfect, perfect vault. Right. Right. Like you might practice it 150 times, but when it's time to do it in the Olympics, you only have one shot. Right. Right. It's that. It's that same. It's that same thing. And, and, you know, for me, a lot of fans of the show have always asked, you know, when are you going to do another one. It's very challenging for people who are just seeing it from an entertainment perspective to say, you know, we need another great white hope or we need to do another.

another white rapper show, you don't understand the science behind it because that's not what the show is about. Watch the episodes again. Watch what the fucking the challenges were and see who the challenges were and who they were in front of. But you don't, you think that those characters were so compelling that that made the whole show, but don't you think that there's a lot of other good characters out there? Yeah, but there's not the uniqueness anymore. Like in 2007, how many white rappers could you count on one hand that you respected? Bronson didn't happen until 2010. Asher Roth didn't happen until 2009.

Mac Miller, rest in peace, didn't happen until 2010. Like all the white rappers that now that people respect that are of the ilk of the culture, and there's a lot of them, I'm sure I can name 20 more. And Bobby J. from Rockaway. I mean, there's just so many great white rappers. now and and the other thing and then the other thing bro

the other thing that I think is important to recognize there wasn't a lot of places to break music in 2007 like you still needed radio you still needed television now motherfuckers can be in their basement doing Gucci gang and saying that shit

for two and a half three minutes and all of a sudden you do 27 billion streams people also forget that 2007 the music industry was basically completely dead dead dead dead I remember going to see sylvia row and saying hey, we're doing the show. What do you think about doing a record deal for the guy who wins?

I couldn't even get her attention. Couldn't even get her attention for that conversation. She was like, search, it's so great to see you. How are you? How's your wife? Right. I was like, did I not just say something? Right.

I was like, all right, Sylvie, I love you too. You know, and I was out the door. She was that disinterested in signing new rap talent. Not even new rap talent, just trying to figure out how to pay the rent. Right. You know, most, most label execs, I remember seeing Alan Grunblatt, and Alan Grunblatt, who was running E1 and said,

search, the only reason you're fucking even in here is because you have a TV show. Like, I wouldn't give a fuck about a shamrock. Even a great rapper was not very valuable to them at that time. Yeah. And the ones who really seemed like they need some development were even less desirable. And dude, like, even to this day, like, you know, I do my best to tell people, like even to this day I don't give a fuck how hot you are

if you're signed to Republic if you're signed a deaf jam if you sign to Columbia I don't give the fuck how hot you are to break a record today is a million dollars period so I don't know about you

a million dollars is a lot of money to me and to have to do that for 30 acts I'd have a darn good reason to spend that kind of money you know So, you know, the good news about like digital era is like, okay, I can see if a kid LaRoy has 30 billion streams, a 30 million or whatever it is, okay, I can afford to spend, you know,

blank on promoting them. I can spend this much on the music video. I can spend this much on putting them on tour. I can spend this much on radio promotion, video promotion, all of that. Still cost a million dollars. You got to figure out how to recoup that. You know what I'm saying? Did that show change your perspective on the value of content?

before that you had been doing that's a great fucking question wow you've been doing radio before that I might have to fucking move around for that one damn wow well it just seems like fucking question seems like everything you did after that might have been influenced by that really gave you some perspective on this interview great well played sir that's strong urine um I got to tell you the the thing that was interesting to me um when I did the show was the opportunity that really came to me early, early on. Besides, obviously, doing my own talk show

and having that opportunity that didn't happen, MySpace had just started to pop. So opening a MySpace page and having a million followers on MySpace and being able to convey messaging, convey opportunities. I never realized that on a social platform, I can get bookings, you know, doing shows, doing New Year's events and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

So it not only changed the way I saw content, but it also saw the way that the world was changing how to reach audience. And that became such an engaging, intoxicating thing for me. And I utilized that because around that same time, me and my partners were involved in big. building a liquor company called Nouveau. It was a pink carbonated vodka. It looked like it was in a tall lipstick can't, a bottle. And it was me and five partner. And that's how we broke the company.

You know, we started a whole campaign, real men drink pink. And it was ludicrous and it was Ross and it was Wayne and it was T-Pain. And it was, you know, and I mean, you want to talk about accelerated. We went from 600 cases in 08 to 60,000 cases in 2010. We sold the company to Diageo in 2011 for, I think it was either $200 or $376 million. You know what I'm saying? In just three years. So I not only saw that there was an amazing way of distributing content, but it was an amazing way of accelerating business and creating opportunities for young entrepreneurs.

And so that's where my pivot was. When I got that payout, I moved to Florida and kept a large percentage of that because I wasn't paying state tax. and started to just like work with young entrepreneurs on on new ventures right yeah it feels like a lot of rappers have kind of had that transformation throughout their career where they start to realize that it's not just about like a song it's about content in general but that you probably like hit that realization ahead of the curve as a result of uh yeah involved with that i think also you know the other thing that you know what again and this just just happened to me is i also kind of went into a downward spiral of my addiction. So, you know, at the same time, like we're

making a shit ton of money with, you know, Nouveau and doing all of that, you know, I was really miserable in my own addiction. And it really hit hard when, you know, you're sitting in a beautiful home and you're on the 14th, you know, fairway of a, of a golf course on a private, you know, um, community and your wife is saying, yo, either go get help or you're going to lose your family. Really? And you're the most, you know, most successful that you've ever been, you know.

And that dichotomy really also hit hard, you know, because I just, I lost control, you know, and the addiction took over and the things that kind of were challenging about, you know, what I loved about reaching out to people also was, you know, becoming tremendously dangerous for my family and for my own health. So, you know, it was, I'm very thankful. I'm very thankful that I got a real one in my life. You know, my wife is a real ride or die. She could have left a billion times, bro. You know, whenever I hear that lady Gaga song, it chokes me up because I gave my wife a billion reasons to stay, to leave, and she always found one good

one to stay. You know what I'm saying? Like, for real, for real. Like, she is, that record was written for my wife and Gaga doesn't even know it. You know what I'm saying? And it was the least I can do as a man to at least give it the best I could to try recovery, try to find, you know, try to find the things that were making me ugly to my wife and ugly inside. You know what I'm saying? So, and that was also a great way, you know, social media was also a great resource for me because I also dealt with a lot of other things that, you know, I wasn't being,

open about my bipolar disorder. I wasn't being open about emotional challenges I was having. I wasn't being open about, but I was able to see a lot of that through social media and I was also able to utilize a lot of that connectivity to people. You know what I mean? So it was this great growth, this great expansion, but also the ability to make amends to my daughter and, you know, make amends to my wife and make amends to my children, but also make amends to friends, you know. And, and be willing. And I got to tell you, man, honestly, bro, when I got into recovery,

I was the most successful I ever was. And I lost everything when I was in recovery. Everything. Everything. How so? Because when I got into recovery, one of the things I learned is I had to get rid of people, places, and things.

So all the people I was making money with, I couldn't make money with anymore. So all the people I was dealing with, I couldn't go hang out with Rick Ross. I talked to him about a deal for a liquor company. He's going to blow smoke in my face. I don't have that strength right now. Can't do business in the liquor space.

Even though I don't drink, I can't do that. I can't even be in the music business, really. And everything dried up. And there was seven years' time where I like how to rebuild. But the one thing I didn't lose ever is my recovery. I didn't lose that. So while I was losing something materialistic, I was building something emotional, spiritual, and more profound.

So when I kind of emerged, I emerged and in less time, I created a much more rapid level of success than I've ever had, you know. And I see things so much different. And going back to your question about social media, the beautiful thing about it now is like, I fuck with this kid. I love this kid. Young artist's name, Surf, out of Atlanta. Found out about him, he put out three mixtapes, bad human, badder human, and baddest human.

And he just put out an EP called Sustaining Injury. But what I love about this kid is on the humble, just on the humble, one day he's like, yo, I'm on Discord, a secret surf. And all he does on Discord Saturdays is all his fucking fans. And all he talks about is his mental health. Lost his mother to addiction. Talks about it openly. Like it's fucking amazing. It's like a fucking go into a group therapy session.

you know and I love that about the kid I mean not only is he just fucking super talented artist and I'm seeing I love his music his new single wasabi's fucking crazy I was just listening to a point of on my way here but to have that kind of openness you know to be an artist that says you know what I'm going to expose my warts because I didn't who the fuck was talking like that you know blank amount of years ago you know so the beautiful part about what I learned from my early on and in my fandom and in, you know, my fame early on was I could use it also as a vacuum to grow. And that's what I did. Like I learned really slowly and the very first Instagram post I ever did, 2013, is backstage with Mac Miller, Arsenio, and me. It's the very first one. And it,

obviously Mac died six months later. Arsenio show was canceled six months later. And it's this reminder for me of what was and also where I was in that moment. And that's the beautiful part for me for social media is that it's an incredible snapshot, but it also gives me an ability to share where I am. Yeah, for sure. Sometimes I feel like we don't, we don't really value the medium of our time until it's too late. Like we can all look at a lot of like TV shows from the 80s and 90s.

I can look at supermarket sweep And I could be like This shit is fucking amazing I'm pretty sure I thought it was like trash TV Even if I was watching it in the 90s Dude I was just telling somebody like Yo

My shit let's make a deal That was my shit Oh love that Yo let's make a deal Yo The girls with the cases A lot of those girls went on to become Like valid actresses and shit

There's an article you could Google about this Yeah and the dude behind the scenes like Oh the guy And yo, great show. Great show. Loved it. He used to tune in like every fucking week for that show. Do you watch like America's Got Talent in that shit?

Do you watch American Idol? Like me neither. But I watched the one with Cardi B and Chance the rapper and shit as the host. Yeah, that was on Netflix. What was it on Netflix? Rap something. I forget. Yeah.

And then there was another one on Fox with Khalid and Diddy. I don't think I watched that one. No, but I remember that too. Yeah. What was it called? Rhythm and flow. That was the show on Netflix, Rhythm and Flow. Yeah, Cardi lost a mind on one episode.

Like, this dude was fucking rhyme. And then all of a sudden she came from behind the podium and was like, vibing with him. I was like, oh, okay. Right. Okay. Chance telling every single rapper that they weren't being godly enough. That's right.

It was so funny. It's like, why are you even here if you're just going to, like, they didn't know that there was going to be a religious part to this test? And the thing that's a fucking worst part of it, is the show could have been, you know, it's one of these things where you watch it after and you go, oh, now I know why the shit didn't have it next season.

Because it was no balance. There's no balance. Like, yo, there has to be a producer. Like, the one thing I loved about our show is we had segment producers. And one thing that fucking, for the white rapper show and for Miss Rap Supreme,

the one thing that those guys did great is they had segment producers that would go like, look, I'm going to just keep it on, with you, you ain't making the show of, you're fucking up crazy. Really? Yo, if you don't fucking step your game up right now, you're a fucking rap. Just be fucking clear.

Whoa. Make them super nervous and odd edge on camera? No, off camera. Yeah, but I'm saying then they get on camera and they're like, I got to perform like my fucking life depends. Can you imagine if I hype people up like that before their interview? This is it. If you don't say some interesting shit, you're done.

I was in a Spike Lee movie called. Bambusal back in the day. It was me most deaf. It was the first time that Spike ever did a film with digital cameras. We played a group called a Mow Mouse. We had a big scene. I had, you know, if you are a fan of Spike Lee movies, he always has this, what's called the wake-up scene, right?

It's the one big, you know, big theatrical scene. And I get that scene in the movie. And in the movie, we kill a character because we call him an Uncle Tom and a Sambo and we kill him. And we come out of where we kill them. And we shot it. We actually shoot the killing on live at that time at a website. And we come out and we're smoking. I'm like, yo, who got that fire? And the lights go on. And it's like just a gang of cops. We pull out. Everybody starts busing. All the people that are black around me die. And I got my gun. and I drop it

and I'm like, kill me, kill me. I'm black. I'm 116th black. I'm black and I'm screaming it, all right? Before that scene, Spike comes to me and goes, search, we ain't got a fucking second chance on this search. Do you understand? We're not going to fucking do this again.

You fuck this up. The whole movie is fucked up. Do you understand that? Who's your fucking character? Who are you? they're going to let you live all your fucking friends are going to fucking die

just because you look like a fucking cracker don't fuck this up all right are we rolling slay action and I killed that scene I believe I mean I when we had the premiere

prodigy may rest of peace came up to me and he goes yo man your son that was hard son your son now was hard son you know, son, that was hard. When I did that scene, you know, there was all these kind of people and like, yo, we're going to slam you to the hood.

And I said to the guy, even before I was like, yo, slam me down on the, he wouldn't slam me. I slammed myself. Like, I mean, I slam myself on the hood of this car. They're trying to grab me, put me in the car. I'm like, fuck you, meow, mouth. Crying, screaming. They put me in. I'm trying to kick out the glass.

They said, cut. and I ran to my fucking trailer and I cried for like two hours, two hours. It was that intense. Oh, it was that intense. And that's what made the white rapper show so good because we would have segment producers. And I think these shows, rhythm and flow and all these shows, they don't have people who, and I shouldn't say that because I don't know. I believe they didn't have people that say, listen. You can keep all that God shit for about five minutes.

You know, praise Jesus, but fucking blast home. Because, yo, you know, and again, I don't know if that's, you know, what was appropriate in that moment. But we had those moments. We had moments where segment producers were like, look, you're looking bananas right now. You're looking crazy. Right.

You know, you've got to fucking step your game up. And, you know, and it's really, you know, all those dudes. Just Ron and just John Brown and John Boy and Persia and especially Persia. Like, you know, she became such a fan favorite of that show. Like women loved that chick. Loved her. But it was just, it was just, it was a zeitgeist, bro. It was never going to happen again.

It was never going to work again. Respect for having that attitude because that is very much not the attitude of the entertainment industry. Where normally it's like, oh, it worked for one season. Yeah. We're going to make more seasons until a season. is to be profitable and then we will exit. And that's, you know, and if you look at what, you know, mass appeal has become and what Sasha Jenkins has become, you don't see them doing like, you know, fucking iced out

volume two and they do what they do and they do it great and they cover, you don't see fresh dress part two. They do what they do and they do it great and they let it stand, you know, and, you know, not to kind of circle back, but it's the same kind of premise. about our podcast company, bro. It's like, I want to be able to tell great stories and let them stand. Like, you know, like

when I listen to Kane talk about being on the set of posse, you know, I know that it wasn't his proudest moment being, but the way he tells it and how he

told it, but he'll share with you like, we framed it in a way that makes him feel good about telling that story. I broke the seat. Oh, yeah. Brian, can you write a check for the broken seat? Thanks, man. Appreciate it. I'll hear a check for a three-year-old office chair. No problem. Do you want me to go to eBay and buy you the three-year-old? Yes. Okay. Can you go on eBay and thank you? Appreciate it. But that really becomes a part of like what we do, you know, whether it's breaking anonymity, search says or, you know, did I ever tell you the one about Big Daddy Kane or the one

ever tell you about MF Doom? It's about doing these scenarios and creating these scenarios with these people that tell these stories that stand the test at times so that hopefully, you know, somebody goes back 10 years later and says, yo, man, you know, this was so blank, epic, important, whatever, you know, because the storytelling needed to be told. You know, I spoke to Shock G three weeks before he died. Really? You know, that was my man. Like, we spoke all the time.

And we would talk about all the time, him telling his story. And it's just one of those things, bro. It's like, tomorrow's not promised. And I wish I would have. Because his story's amazing. Like, just the amount of records he wrote with Tupac. Just that stuff. You know, just besides building and making digital underground and going on the tour with him

and, you know, the stories that he and I and Tupac had together, like, you know, those can't replicate those when somebody's in the dirt. So that's a beautiful part of what I'm trying to build. Right. You know, you've seen a lot of success throughout your career. What do you feel like you're doing it for at this point? Like, you know, you could probably just chill, right? Maybe you couldn't, but you probably, you know,

there's like a lot of different things you could be doing with your life. Like what do you feel like is really driving you at this point? The storytelling. For me, it's purely about the fact that, that I feel that we are superior in how we tell our stories and that the relationships I have with the artists is unique because we're able to tell the stories in a way that no one else thinks about. I think that's one of the things. And I don't think I'm in a place where I can chill yet. You know, my wife and I talked about it. You know, we're building this house

and we talk about, you know, the next five years and what that looks like. I'll be I'll be probably 60. You know, I'll probably be in a different place. You know, 60, probably sell the house, live six months in a different country, every six months move someplace, you know, be in a different spot. You know, we have a lot of things going on

that, you know, we're not talking about, I told you about Unition and what we're doing in the virtual space, but you have 10 other businesses that we're growing, you know, that I can't talk about, you know, right now. And all of them have amazing, fruit that they're going to bear and I'll see where I'm at. But I'm not a chaser. Like I know what my number is, you know, and I know when I hit that number, I'm good. You know what I'm saying?

Like I don't need certain things to make me happy. And it's different when I was an active addiction. I thought there were certain things I wanted. You know, certain things that that were important for me to have. And now 10 years in a recovery, I realize it's not only not true, but it never was true. It was always more about like finding a personal contentment and finding closeness with my wife and reconnecting with my kids and more importantly, leaving a legacy not only with the timeless podcast company of storytelling that I'm proud of, but being able to walk away knowing that whatever amends I made, I made, whatever mistakes I made I fixed and whatever I couldn't fix, I'm okay with that.

You know what I'm saying? And then just, you know, the rest of it is just hanging with friends, hanging with family, enjoying playing around a golf, enjoying a good cigar, you know, being able to just travel with my bride wherever we want to go and enjoy my kids and, you know, just doing shit that, you know, is truly relevant. You know, I lost my father three months ago, and when I was sitting with him,

I said, you know, my dad just turned 91. I said, you know, Dad, how fast did it go? And he looked at me and he said, Michael, and went by in a blink. And he said, enjoy every moment. He said, because I would do anything to have another moment with your mother. You know? And it reminds me of something that a mentor said to me, he goes, nobody on their deathbed ever says, man, I wish I had more time at work.

You know? And when I think about your friend who was the blood, who is a rider who you don't have another moment with or think about MF Doom or think about shock g and i think about all the friends that i've lost you know it's not about the work man you know it's not about the success it's about those moments of time you know the greatest gift i had bro is that i was able to take my kids to school every day and pick them up every day you know um i might not have been the most present father and certainly i was an act of addiction so I'm sure I wasn't the best father, but I was there.

And I enjoy those moments, you know, and I was there to celebrate those moments. And again, I might be really selfish in saying that because probably wasn't the best for my kids. But I know I got that. You know, I got that. The other thing I tell people in breaking anonymity is, you know, when my mother died in 2013, I couldn't really feel it. You know, I was still very numb. But I didn't want to use.

I just, you know, I wanted to be there for my father. You know, he lost his wife. He lost his best friend. And then, like, a year later, I lost my dog. My dog died in my lap on my way to the hospital. And that was the first time I really felt pain. You know what I'm saying? Like, I really wanted to use.

When my father died, I had to bring him from Montana to New York to bury him. And it was a process working with him. with my brother, my brother was a process. And it was the first time my life I felt loss. I really felt that loss, my father. And it was, I realized that I was able to deal with that loss because of the work that I've done in recovery. And I wasn't hiding from the pain

that I could feel that pain without having to numb it with anything. I don't knock anybody who needs to, smoke weed or drink to deal with pain or loss. What I'm saying is there's another way you can deal with it, and you might want to just take a look at it. Yeah, that really hits home because I just found out my cat's got cancer this morning. I'm so sorry, bro.

How long as you had your cat? 15 years? Yeah. Yeah. I had my two dogs, one 17 years and one 15 years. And my youngest Teddy Man

This he was a He was the fucking man bro Small Kiss everything We found out like two years prior That his heart was bad And then you know He just

Started smokestack Breathing on my lap On the way of the hospital We lost him Fuck My other dog Gizmo was an asshole I fucking hated that dog

But he had the 17th Wouldn't lick Wouldn't kiss Like just an asshole but just was the sweetest thing and found out she was in Reno failure, like with drink, water, and then just pee it out and just wasn't going to have a quality of life when we put her down. It was really painful, but man, it's just when you lose a pet that's a family member, you know, and you try your hardest to deal with not only helping them at ease,

but remembering all the good and all the happy. you know it's um it's something you want to feel bro you know it's something you want to feel and i really hope for you you allow yourself to feel that bro i hope you don't try to numb it and i hope you allow yourself to feel it because i think if you do you're going to really grow from it yeah like that dude gave i was telling you about who got killed like i was very i was on tour when i found out And I was just like very much in the, in the midst of course. The clout and like the early stages of this really like becoming something, you know. And I always kind of like think about that.

I was just so caught up in my lifestyle at the time that I didn't really have. I didn't cry. I didn't have any ability to like feel it at that time, you know? Yeah. When I buried my father, it was the first time I'd gone back to my mother's grave site. And that was when I felt it. So you might have to visit your man. Yeah.

Because I, you know, I'll share with you from personal experience, like, when you get that place of quiet and you visit your man, like, like I used to every five years go visit Scholar Rock's grave, me and Chris, we'd go and take, you know, a 40 with us and just go and, you know, in the moment, you know, I couldn't even go to the funeral. Like, I just couldn't go. You know, it was too hard. And we would go and visit. So just as a friend, bro, and just someone who respects the shit out of you, I think, you know, in my experience, if you don't feel like you had that closure, go visit his grave. And just go have a conversation with him.

You know what I'm saying? Touch the grave site. Just know he's there in spirit. And give yourself that a moment and that ability to step away from the biking a step away from the, you know, the clout you have and the success you have and the family and the things that you've built that are so beautiful and just allow yourself to be in that moment with your friend.

You know what I'm saying? And I think that'll give you some closure. Yeah, that's real. The cat thing is even tougher, though, to be honest. Oh, yeah, of course, because that's your baby. Yeah, that's your baby. And to see your cat suffer, to see anybody suffer, but to see a pet suffer,

especially when it's to no fault of their own. you know what I'm saying and to have a cat for 15 years like it you know I trust me I feel that pain for you and I feel how much it hurts you and I can see how much it's challenging for you and you know just love on that animal the best you can enjoy it as best you can and mourn it as best you can you know really be in the moment as best you can with that and also it's a great way of teaching your daughter about love and loss and give her that moment. Yeah, she's obsessed with them, but she's only nine months. Yeah.

You know, and the one thing, again, that I learned, you know, when we were taking, her dog's name was Gizmo to put her down, we gave all of our kids because they were all grown the ability to face time and say goodbye. You know, and they all, you know, we're all very emotional and all very sad, but, you know, we're all very emotional and all very sad, but, you know, but, you know, you know, we're all very grown, but. it's important to have that closure. It's really important to have that closure. And a nine-month-old, whether obsessed or not, they might not be able to articulate it yet, but they're going to feel the loss.

And I would suggest you just dad-to-dad, don't let that relationship of that cat with you go years without you explaining that loss to your daughter. Because you might get another, animal. You know, you might get several and just say, you know, hey, you know, this is our cat. Our other cat is no longer with us. Love on this cat. Tomorrow's not promised. Enjoy that moment with her or him, whatever you get. And just use that as a time to like really bond with your daughter and bond with your soon-to-be bride because it just, it's a place where you can educate your

and create a bond with your family that most people don't that most people take for granted. They don't allow themselves to have that bond. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm just like starting to wrap my head around it because I just heard it this morning

and I was like, I got to go put on my fucking work face and go do this shit all day. But it's kind of been lorking in the back of my head and when you said all that, it just made me kind of have to start thinking about it, you know? Yeah. And it's not easy, bro.

And I'm so sorry that you, found out today and and you know but again men it's like you had 15 years bro what a blessing yeah you have 15 amazing years with this partner you us you know and it's a blessing bro you know so try to enjoy the blessing you know try to enjoy the good times try to enjoy those moments keep plenty of pitches around the house and and just see it as a blessing you know because it could have been five days it could have been five months you know yeah I feel like I can't fucking do this interview anymore

it's gonna be hard to talk about you when I'm fucking thinking about this goddamn cat yeah you can talk about girls sucking dick if you want to finish just and end it with that if you've seen a lot of that too I'm sure I'm sure you've lived that life bro many times in my life I've been performing a sex act and I looked over and my cat was staring at me

we just got two cats Our cats ourselves, my wife. We just got two cats. Let's just put it this way. The cats need to be in the hole. Yeah. Keep him away. Can't happen.

He's old enough. He won't even hop on the bed. Let me tell you something. I keep thinking about the Cedric, the entertainer. Or was it Cedric the entertainer? Or was it the guy who did the thing about having sex with the girl and the cat licked the balls? Every time he had sex with the girl, the cat licked the balls.

Right. And he was like, he broke up with her and he was like, fucking done. And I'm taking the cat with me. I don't know if that was Cedric or if that was Bernie Mac. It might have been Bernie Mac, rest in peace. But he said, yeah, he was like, what the fuck is that? The guy would lick his balls every time he had sex with the cat. And he broke up with the girl and he's like, fucking done.

I'm taking the cat with me. I've heard from a lot of guys about dogs trying that move on them. I'm very, very thankful that neither one of my dogs. practice that. That would have been strange. Yeah, I'm not ready for that. No, I'm not ready for that. Cats got that rough tongue, too.

You know, what's up with the rough tongue? Like, is it because they clean their own fur? It must be good for cleaning because it's all they fucking do. Yeah, no, no, I don't know what it is. It's like a reverse tongue. My homeboy, my man Brett, I'm actually working on a new project with a bunch of friends of mine called the co-defendants putting out a rap record.

and he's got this giant blue-nosed pit bull named Brian. He leaves Pauls. Should get him over here. And this dog just loves people, man. But when he's standing at the door, it's the most terrorizing, like this is a pit bull mastiff named Brian. Like Brian. And I'm like, why the fuck you named this cat and this fucking dog Brian? Right.

He's like, because I didn't want him to be fucking for. Rocious. Like when some people realize that he's a blue-noose to a Brian, they're kind of cool with him. They're like, yeah, whatever. Brian. Right. Like it takes away the fucking, like, you know, it's like seeing

a big ass gangster dude, and the dude's name is, you know, snarky or some shit. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like, snarky. But I feel like the thing that's intimidating about pit bull is just their nature, not like the name so much, you know? This, I can't

imagine my man's pit bull ever hurting anyone, ever. He's a chill. Yeah, no, like, you know, like ever, like ever. But it's one of those things when, you know, you're at the door and it's just pit bulls, you know, barking. Not growling, barking because he's startled. And then all of a sudden, he's licking your face and he's trying to sniff your balls.

And it's like, he's the coolest dude ever. And his name is Brian. Right. Brian the Pitbull. Shout out to Brian the Pitbull. My brain goes to Brian from family. Got to be totally honest. Oh, yeah, me too.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's basic dog named Brian. Yeah. By the way, I was a caricature on the show, really? On the Cleveland show, actually. Oh, wow. Yeah.

If you see my Instagram, it's in, that's my photo. I feel like that's a thing in this world is that like every chubby black guy gets compared to Cleveland at some point. That's actually a fact in some way, shape, or form. I have multiple friends of mine who get called Cleveland from time to time. Shut up, Vell. I mean, but there's a lot of those, too. Any nerdy by guy gets compared to Urkel or fucking.

This is also true. Carlton as well. Carlton also. They have more of a country club swag that's a Carlton. Total. And he's a hell of a golfer. So he fucks it up. The narrative totally gets fucked up with Carlton because that motherfucker can golf.

Like real talk can fucking swing the clubs. And then when he puts the ball in the cup, he does the Carlton, which is just makes it worse. I've seen him whore that dance out. many goddamn times at this point. He'll show up at the city bank party to fucking do that on stage for a fucking quick check. Can you do the call to? I'm going to respect myself and just

what's your dance move? What's your go-to dance move? Well, I've had a lot of my friends actually point out that I've kind of like this motion. Oh, you do the white man two-step. A little bit when I'm like really feeling something that I'll kind of like start doing this little running man type thing but slowed down. Yeah, I got you. Oh boy. Please, please

just We need a cooler white man move for that Yeah we need Jack Harlow to do that one Oh yeah no doubt no doubt Yo shout out to Jack Harlow for his maneuver on sweetie At the runway That was a power move That was a real power move

I feel that was a real power move I feel like shout out to the Shout out to Jack for trying to squeeze up on that In front of her pops Right Like that's a fucking strong move Like he went up to a while she was doing the interview He said excuse me love him Jack Harlem

That is right there. Dad is right there makes the maneuver. Listen, Jack Harlow. White man move of the year. Jack Harlow. When I think about the history of white rappers, I don't

feel like there's ever been a white rapper who exuded an effortless cool like Jack Carlo. I feel like a lot of white rappers, even the really successful one, shout out to logic. They exude a sort of try hard

vibe to at least some extent I'm gonna throw it to Mac Miller and say that he didn't have a whole lot of that I'm gonna throw it to Paul Wall and say he didn't have that at all he was very effortlessly cool as well but Jack Harlow there's something special that he brings to the white rapper game in my opinion no I'm just I'm literally going through my white man Rolodex now I just showed how old I am because I said Rolodex not contact list of cool white rappers I'm going to go with

again no I think this is a fair I think early Everlast when he was with Ice T rhyme syndicate and he had that record syndication I think dope new styles of rhyme of breaking science

down with the rhyme syndicate aligns you want to tip at the crack of you know what I'm saying about ships and slips the lip you'd be drunk I'm getting drunk with the bottom of little rosé that keeping my trunk punk yo he was fucking I got to give it to e on that one like he was suave Ebola on that shit um but I will give you that jack is effortlessly cool effortlessly cool yeah and black SUV is a fucking beast of a record of a record That record is a beast. I think in part that moment with him and Sweetie

kind of stood out to people a lot because there's maybe like a moment where people realize like, oh, Jack Harlow maybe is the rare white boy who could bag a sweetie. And when she said, when she's holding his hand, he said, why is your hand shaking? And he put his hand in and she's, what?

Ooh! And she got geeked. She got geeked. His game, as they say around the way, was on fleek, I hear. I hear they use that language. He's even smart enough that we don't know who the fuck he's smashing

for the most part. You hear a few whispers here and there. What are the whispers? Well, the Addison Ray thing was a little bit publicized. I don't know who else has really been reputably. She's like pretty much the biggest TikTok girl. No, I know who Addison Ray is, but I'm not really

checking for chicks like that who steal black dance moves and don't give fucking credit where credits do. Fuck that bitch. And fuck all white people who still black dances and don't Don't give them motherfuckers they credit and they fucking live in big ass houses and don't give fucking credit. Fuck you. Stop stealing black culture, your fucking vultures.

And fuck Fortnite. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. Maybe stealing dancers. But that's, maybe. But that's some real shit like, yo, there's like, did you see the New York Times special? But now Fortnite has Martin Luther King? doing a speech

not as a playable character no I know but did you see the New York Times special on black creators who tried to do a black creative house in Atlanta and the dude that created

one of the dances Addison Ray stole it yo it's a great special it's a great it's a great documentary on black creators stop stealing dances and also they said that the algorithm

purposely TikTok's purposely like shiny bright things. That's why black creators don't get as much likes on the TikTok algorithm. Wow. I can also say that we've had TikToks deleted for rappers saying the N-word

in the TikToks, which seems kind of bizarre to me. I don't really know how I feel about the Chinese conglomerate making the decision about how we're allowed to communicate. I want to ask you this, though, as a white creator. Allegedly. Allegedly. I haven't got the 23 of me back yet.

Um, I'm sure you have one drop up black, but like we all do. I have to have to. There has to be. There's some swag. Um, what do you think about this notion that there is a way that Instagram, way that social media algorithms really do not give equal credence to black creators? and why is there or do you believe there is there this stymied

section of black creators who do not accelerate because they're black yeah I mean I don't know about that specifically but I will say that it does stand out that like you see the same pattern play out over and over where you'll see like a black guy doing a certain type of skit and then you'll see a white guy doing the same exact fucking

skit and it kind of just like hits a bigger audience because you know maybe people want to see somebody that is more relatable to them doing that but then the weird thing about it is that now with the tic-tok sounds it's like you're importing you know it would be incredibly easy if i see a black guy doing a skit on tic-tok i just use that sound i mouth over the actual skit that he's doing and this is now blasted out to my fan base essentially erased of any trace of him unless they were to click that sound. Right. So it kind of like, it makes it so that people just completely mirroring other

creators skits is like almost like encouraged. Yeah, one of the things I will share with you and I wasn't going to share with you, but I am going to share with you because I've really become quite fond of you on this, this conversation we're having. Thank you. I created a, because of creators who were being basically banned from social media because they were using beats that weren't DMCA approved. Okay.

Me and my partner created an entire lofi platform called Portal. You can go to Spotify, PR, TL. And it's all DMCA approved beats, but we did all different genres. So we're the only lofi company in the world that does Basanova, synthwave, alt rock, regatone, reggae, calypso, soca, as well as Lofi hip hop and Lofi, all of that. And we are in the process of doing a partnership with Ex-SET so that all the players on the X-SET platform can use our music without being stripped down and taken down.

That's what so. So it launched two weeks ago, and we have more partnerships that we're doing, but it was one of those things that's like, you know, you see a question, and I'm in a position, thank goodness today, where I can find a solution. You know what I'm saying?

And work with creators who make amazing music, pay them to make these instrumentals and be able to provide them to people on platforms around the world that can utilize that music and never have to worry about it being taken down. Do you feel like you also just have a passion

for just building businesses, period? Because you're talking about that liquor company that you sold. You're talking about something like this. I mean, that doesn't have anything to do with like stories. or whatever, right? So is that just another? I don't disagree. I mean, I think it's all storytelling.

I mean, Nouveau was a really amazing story. Right. I mean, I remember meeting with people in the liquor business that said to me, point blank, that's just a failure. You're never going to get black men to drink a fucking pink bottle carbonated vodka. Right. And we proved them wrong. It was an amazing story. Not only did we prove it wrong, but motherfuckers lost in mind over that shit like lost in mind we were doing

400 videos a year something like 6,700 integrations a year like it was crazy so I think that is compelling storytelling I think that does create stories I mean Fat Joe and T-Pain just talked about it on his show so I think it does create stories I think that you know building a portal

is about stories right because here you have created that are talking about let's plays and they're talking about integrations and engagement, and they want the right music, and they find an instrumental, and their story gets taken down. So now they have an opportunity to tell more of their stories. But I love building businesses. It's something that has been a passion of mind for, I mean, since I was a little kid. You know, so, you know, even third base in a lot of ways was building a business.

no one thought we could do what we were going to do. No one thought we had the cheat code, if you will, to do what we did. And we did it. And we fucking smashed through the door in a lot of ways. So it's always been about creating great story, great content. And I'm going to continue to do that, unition. And what we do in the virtual event space, yeah, that's just going to be fucking bonkers, B. It's just going to be bonkers.

What are we doing that, what we do with Portal? you know the next three months which you're going to be hearing what we're going to do on portal the partnerships are going to create a crazy because there's a need bro there's a need it's the same reason why people are so fucking enamored with everything you do

because there's a need to watch you grow and develop like people are invested I'm invested in what you do bro I'm invested in no jumper news I'm invested in these fucking little things you throw around that watch every fucking day watch your daughter fucking you know I'm invested in what you do, bro, because it's fucking cool.

Yeah, that shit is fucking fire. Yo, foe, no jump of water. Most wavy, wet water in the industry, fuck with me. You know what I'm saying? Like, people get invested because there's an intrigue, right? And not only an intrigue, it's an interest and it's based on integrity,

right? So once you create that capture, that integrity, that you're the same motherfucker, you build from that. You know what I'm saying? So that's always been my thing. The difference is, go aside, self-centeredness aside, I don't need to be the person in front anymore. In fact, I don't want it.

I'd prefer to be behind the scenes. I'd prefer to be just allowing other people to grow and develop. I really do search says, and I will say this, and it'll come off egotistical, but I don't care. I do search says because I believe I can be the Howard Stern of hip-hop. I believe there's no one better that does interviews than me. I just honestly believe that. And my research department, how we go into an interview, how we capture content.

What I'm terrible at is marketing for myself, not for anybody else. I'm terrible and self-promotion. I'm celebrating. So I need that help. But I believe that I am the Howard Stern of Hip Hop. I just believe that. So I do that for me, right? Everything else we do because the story is important.

And even when I'm telling the story or I'm talking to somebody, whether it's Chris Rock sharing that he's on the, you know, the special. and that he has autism of some sort and that he can't watch porn or I'm talking to method man about how he married you know you got sister or I'm talking to John Cryer about how he loved hip hop going to Bronx science like I want to develop and find information and no one else can find and I want to I want to dig deep and have my research department all kind of come together have this consensus how we're going to approach an interview you know even with Gator Gator didn't even realize he had a Wikipedia we played an entire game with him called is Gators Wikipedia a facto or capo it was just fun like I love that shit man it's just I want I want you to step to me

one day and say yo I watched your Blasease Plea interview that shit was crazy Joe Rogan is a fan like he'll fucking send me a DM and just be like yo that shit was behind him you know that's the shit that makes me happy right now you know what I'm saying it's about telling the story definitely

I need a research team You have one? No. She does a lot of stuff, but it's my research. That was one of the key things that I learned from Howard Stern is that he has behind the scenes, he has the best research team in the industry. And he does his own deep dives of research,

but he has an amazing research team. That's what makes him different. Interesting. Yeah. Something to think about from the people of Getty. Yeah. That watermark? Maybe.

That's why I think it would getty. It's that watermark that nobody wants to be. the pay to have removed from their photo. Getty images. No, they used to be a Getty gas company. Okay. Back in the day and that was the commercial. Something to think about from the people at Getty. They would tell you this compelling thing about the environment

that they were destroying. Right. But they would fucking counterbalance it with. Something to think about from the people of Getty. Yeah. I love that. I love when I'm listening to a podcast and it's sponsored by like BP. And like... And it's an environment podcast.

Or I'll listen to... You know what? I listen to like New York. times like The Daily podcast and shit like that. I love that one. That's the one I was telling you about, about black. That's the one, the Daily. Oh, okay. So I think I do remember that I'm talking about it.

You got to see that on Netflix, bro. That shit is fucking fire. Laura, mark the date and time. You'll listen to any random episode of the Daily and you'll, you know, they'll be talking about how Facebook misinformation has like corrupted our elections and shit like that. And then one day you'll hear an ad from Facebook on the Daily where they're clearly just trying to message to their audience.

It's like we care about user safety and we care about, you know. And it's like they're really allowed to fucking advertise on this platform to try to debunk the things that were just reported on this platform. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I mean, they're journalists, right? So you have this ability to kind of see it from both sides. And they probably have like one of the higher standards for journalism, journalistic integrity. On many fronts, I would like to think.

That's like saying Def Jam is still the best rap label in the world, but they're putting out fucking like Danny Lee. I can't believe I'm trying to cap for fucking New York Times here. But I feel like that the wall erected between their advertisers and their content is probably higher than most. But that's what branding is. What you just established is why I love what I do. Because you'll still see the New York Times as the ethos because it's the fucking newspaper. They either see your dad or your grandfather that everybody saw as the Bible of,

of information, right? That's a brand that even though they've basically over the last five years destroyed the integrity of it still lasts. It's the same way Def Jam is still, even though they put out Justin Bieber and they put out some 41 and they're still seen as the rap label that rappers want to be signed to. Are they? Yeah.

They are. Who are these rappers? I'm being honest with you. And I've been to Def Jam. I've tapped in over there. Nobody gives a fuck about Def Jam. They're talking about QC and shit. I'm talking about...

No, no, no. And QC is different. Like, to me, QC is different. Because to me, when I see Def Jam, I think a Motown. Right. When I see QC, I think of Death Row. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just different.

Like, they're just built different. And what P and what Coach K and now what Chris Hicks are doing, is taking that company into a content direction that is just revolutionary. It's just revolutionary. I love those dudes. But there's also a lot of great people in that Saifo that just do a lot of great work. You know what I'm saying?

You don't see behind the scenes. You know? But man, this is, I've really enjoyed this, bro. Thank you. Appreciate it, man. No, man. Thank you. Great conversation.

This was, I can't tell you how long. First of all, I can't tell you how long I wanted to do this. I'm real thankful that Ben Baller put us together. Oh, he did, yeah. And so shout out to Ben. Ben Baller did the chain. Yeah, and Ben Baller did the dominoes, which I fucking needed to buy today. Pizza?

Huh? Pizza? Or? No, he did gold dominoes. Oh, wow. Today, he did a gold domino set. We have a Ben Baller grill. I also have a Ben Baller fridge at my home.

Oh, the little mini fridge. You lucky. I just got these from Supreme Shout out to my man West These is new Supreme Boots that ain't even out yet That's my drip Hell Row took some of my weed I just want to throw that up there

You know one thing you'll never have to worry about Is me taking any of your weed There we go That's one bonus of everything around That's all the reason I need to stay close by search Facto Facto I like that

I'm gonna start running with that as well Yo please shout out to my man Troy Ave from Brooklyn Who let me run with with it. So now you're the next one. Factor, not Capo. Oh, yeah. That is when I think about Facto, I think about him. That's a good point, yeah. Troy, I was also a great partner. I had a wine company. He did it with him. Birthday cake wines. Shout out of Troy. Wrote him a lovely check. Fire. Search. Appreciate you, man.

Nah, Adam, man. I appreciate you. I appreciate the effort in the time you put into your craft and my condolences on the cat. Well, he's not dead yet. No, but, you know. You got a little time. I'm left on them. Hey, I'm just saying it now because who knows when this runs. And just thank you for letting me, you know, promote what we've got going on, man. I appreciate you. No problem. Hey, all I know, we're going to make some fire, rest and peace, Tony Cat merch.

You got to make the best out of this opportunity. I'm kind of a bad situation. I need a 2X and a hoodie. Oh, yeah, we've got to print it on tall T's so we can look like dudes in L.A. in like 2005, yeah. Damn. Laura's doing the Crip Walk in honor of it. the whole shit. She does that. What is that? Yeah, that was crazy right there. I felt it, though. I felt

the energy. Like, I felt the energy right there. She's fucking flipping the roll of 60 right there. It's fucking energy right there. A French dude pulled up and did the podcast the other day, and she speaks French and, like, originally. A truce bon voyage? They started hitting each other with hella French back and forth. Oh, okay, gotcha. It freaked me out. I was like, oh, my God. I just asked how was her trip in French, and she didn't respond. She's very private person. Very private French speaker.

search i appreciate you man no bro thank you thank you so much brother mc search no jumber coolest podcast on world check us on youtube sound cloud iTunes by Skype no we're not on Skype we're not on clubhouse either patreon though 25 dollar tier is on the screen appreciate y'all like comment and subscribe nojumber dot com if you want to support go cut yourself a condama etc facto facto