No Jumper - The MTA Crew on Being The Only Graffiti Crew to Get a Gang Injunction & More

Episode Date: September 9, 2022

Doknow calls Adam for reinforcements, to chop it up with the graffiti team MTA Crew. ----- 00:00 Intro 1:26 - Being the first graffiti crew to have a g*ng injunction 3:07 - MTA crew brings Adam a gift 6:49 - Gaso on what being in MTA was like in his teen years and stealing a lot of paint before becoming financially able to afford it 13:52 - Graffiti writers and dr*gs, most writers being degenerates 15:18 - Being lifers in the graffiti game, not getting money or anything from it 16:03 - Not hating on people commercializing or trying to monetize graffiti, No Mas doing 10 years in the feds 24:40 - Getting tipped off about a possible raid on MTAs before it happened 28:25 - No Mas on going to prison for graffiti, becoming better, and learning from it 30:24 - Sufer on going to Europe to spray paint and getting arrested in Paris last week 32:45 - Gaso remembers getting electrocuted while trying to get on top of a building in downtown LA, Sufer talks about getting sh*t at while out tagging 46:08 - Sufer speaks on Selling the MTA chain after paying 32k for it 48:00 - Sufer and Gaso disagree on whether or not it’s okay to spray paint on a church 53:06 - Advice to a new graffiti artist, if you're afraid of jail don’t do it, 56:11 - #1 Rule of spraying, daylight spraying ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No jumper. Coolest podcast in world. I'm in here with my man do now. Yes, sir. And this is the MTA interview. The MTA interview. You set this up. Set this up.

You said, Adam, can you help guide me through this interview? I say like that when I was like, I don't know. That's all right. I feel like Adam's like, I feel like your, the liking of shit is like very like everywhere. And I'm like, I think you'll like to do this stuff. Oh, no. Because, all right. If you want to know me, when I was 14, 15, 16, I was so beyond obsessed with graffiti.

I got caught two times in a year So I just I said I'm done I had every graffiti magazine I was post on graffiti message boards I was like fucking such a nerd With it for a couple years That's right

But I still love it Like I still love it Everywhere I go I'm still trying to read the graffiti I still think it's sick of it But yeah Yeah we got some legend in this I'll be with right here Suffer MTA

Gasoline MTA No Moss MTA And so what happened in the game That y'all can just say your names now I thought it was top secret. Not this time. Not me personally.

I'm already burnt out. I've already been to jail for it. My name's burnt. I was part of the injunction that happened. The biggest injunction. So, you know what I mean?

For me, it's like, it is what it is. I already know my name's burnt. So I'm an open book. So MTA is like the only graffiti crew that has ever had a gang injunction in L.A.

Or in general? Ever. Ever, ever, ever. The gang shit started here too, but yeah, we're the first graffiti crew where they implemented that on 10 of us. What took it to such a level that they felt like they had to do that? Just fucking passion at the end of the day. The team that we had during that era, we fucking killed it. You're asking what took depth that level?

What made them feel? Because, like, you know, they don't normally do these kind of injunctions unless it's like a very dangerous criminal threat. Like, for them to take a graffiti crew that serious, just. feels kind of wild. It felt. It definitely was wild. I think it fell under the organization. Like, how did they do this?

There was so much people involved. It was organized. It wasn't two or three people. This is obviously multiple people doing it and government fear, you know? It was like a level of coordination. Coordination, exactly what it is. Like, they're doing this in such a big level. You know, they did this once.

They could do this again. They could do this. This has become a problem. You know, so nip it in the butt. And whatever the gang injunction statute probably says if you read the wording of it probably fell under that there's enough of them who're doing this they're organizing they're networking they're committing crimes they're you know right like read i don't know what it is but read what the gang injunction criteria is

and someone probably goes look they did a c and f good enough for us right and they ran with that that's probably it was logistics the d a at the time was trying to go further his career he latched on the graffiti we had the roller is really what kind of set it in motion even more. The giant piece in the riverbed. I think it's in the world. They brought you a gift. Really? Yeah. It's right here. Oh, shit.

I don't know how you managed to keep this a secret from me because it was fucking gigantic right there, but holy shit, no, because I remember like, okay, what year was this? Oh, fuck. This is amazing. 2005, 2006. Yeah, 0506. I remember seeing this like online

way back in the day and just being like what the fuck are they on? in L.A. And just being like astounded. Like what, I mean, I feel like we should start

talking about the early days before we get into like the most extreme fucking version of graffiti the furthest it's ever been taken. So, okay, give me a little bit of like you guys's younger days

and how you all came together. And what makes you three, and there's a lot of questions. What makes you three like the people who are here to represent when I assume there's been a shitload

of people involved all the years? Gas is number one OG. So he's going to have the most super OG. You created the name? No, not at all. But he'll break it down for you right now. He's just been around the longest, born and raised from L.A.

Ben from... No, whatever. Oh, that's right. Good enough, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Basically, basically. Your whole life, whatever. Yeah, right.

He was a fucking legend here. And then NOMOS came later, so we could talk about, you know, those years. From 0-3 and up. All right, give me a history lesson. Well, the crew itself was started by Skate, the legendary skate. He was, like, the founder of the CBS crew. Right, okay. And I guess someone, like, like I said, I've done this shit.

spiel a million times, so I kind of abbreviate it. I mean, you're probably talking to it like a layman. A layman? A average audience member when you think about it. There's probably a lot of people like me who they appreciate graffiti, but don't really know that much of the technicality. Have you ever heard of Skate from CBS? Yes.

As soon as you said that, I'm like, ah, yes, I can remember. Okay, you know about graffiti and who he was. Boisey, who's a known graffiti artist and CBS crew, starred that whole memorableist thing. And toward the latter years of his graffiti career, he decided to start another crew for exact politic reasons why. I don't know, but, you know, he decided to pick MTA, grabbed the group of people around him and says,

I'm going to do this new thing and that's how it started. So did he get out of CBS or he was still CBSMTA? Some people were aiming for it, but when he passed away, he was not from CBS. He was kind of over the way that was going and had no animosity towards it from what I was, from what I was told, just wasn't trying to be their leader and trying to have another thing, kind of,

like a little more street credibility crew instead of just piecing and stuff. And so he formed that, like no animosity against him, but just something they had a little more control over, a little younger, a little fresher, a different wave. And what was that starting team? Like, it was him. Mind you, he passed away a year or so after he made this crew

and I didn't meet his gate. So this is all like second or third hand knowledge is giving to me. Blossom. Which so much shit is in graffiti, which is kind of like a fascinating part of it, is that like, who was the man at a certain period in time? A lot of this shit is basically just like word of mouth.

knowledge that very few people get to really like know, right? Exactly. 100%. So Blossom was one of them. I'm upset. No, not upset. He's later on. The first, I just told some else

is that the first ones I want to say were like Blossom, Sark, Barry, Blossom, oh, it's a Blossomian, Go-Go, Swan, Strone. I don't know about Swan, but Strong for sure. Swan was originally up.

Saul or no? Saul came later. And this is what of your 19. 1911. This is like 92, 93, 93, 93. 93. 93. 93.

Solid. 93 solid. 90. For sure. Those, those, those, I feel like you forgot to say. It's going to happen. Yeah. So like this era though, like when you first became MTA, what was graffiti to you?

Like what kind of shit were you hitting and what was the day in the life life life? When I got MTA, I was a lot younger. I was my teenage years, mid-teens. And it was just what it is, a child doing graffiti. feed and just destroy, destroy a tag. Still trying to figure it out. You know what you want. They're trying to figure it out. And hey, you have 10 other guys around you who are also

trying to figure their shit out, who are writing on walls, and you just mesh, you know? Right. The same way any crew or gang or click, I guess, for him. Hold on, hold on. Hold on. I'm how to fuck. You're going to take a shirt off. My boy. Man, this is that guy.

LeBron James Jersey is just keeping the thing. He's like, hey, tap in. Never tap I'm burning up in this basketball jersey. I'll keep it going to get it back. Yeah, basically, how does anyone really mesh together? And, you know, and I just, we mesh together. And I got with a bunch of other dudes a lot aren't even from MT anymore, a majority.

We're good. My bad. It was hot of the clock. I had to get up. Cali gave for everybody, you know. Yeah, we just, yeah, they mesh. I mesh with people, like, I got put down, and evolution goes on, keep, you know, mismashing in the street, doing our due.

What percentage of your paint were you stealing at this time? at this time a very high percentage because when I'm my mid-teams I can't you know I stole pain as long as I could as much as I could until I became financially equipped which is probably 10 plus years later you know was it that or was it that the fucking Home Depot got better security no the paint I preferred using was uh becoming few and far harder to get they kind of got hit everywhere they don't put this up these kids are coming for this so put it up you know right you can still go I mean no you know that the number one thing that stopped me racking was starting to hustle because I had the money to buy paint.

Someone told me why would you go to jail for $30, $40, $50 with the paint when if you just hustle right and got paper, you could just buy that paint and keep it moving and just, you know. So that's honestly really what stopped me in racking paint was someone put me on game. Have hustle better and have money. You buy everything you want, you don't know? You were doing shit at night or like during the day? Is it pretty much a nighttime game? Yeah, back of the day.

It was times are different. Right. You know? It used to be more of a daytime thing. No, back in the day was a nighttime thing. Okay. I mean, there was daytime graffiti, obviously, but like the big shit you saw. You see people doing big shit in broad daylight now because times have changed and I don't

if it's cooler or whatever. The hot boys is definitely cooler for my age. It's like hot boys. It's like for the Instagram and like, like, I'm an old cat. I ain't going to lie. I'm not that hot boy out there. I know all the hot boys in the city, but I ain't have to try to do that shit. You got, it's a risk doing that shit.

I just, I do my artwork. I've been doing it for like 20, 30 years graffiti. I'm not like a fresh spring chicken. When I see a dude doing some crazy shit graffiti wires in the middle of the day for Instagram, is that for Instagram? Like, this is something they would always do this at night, but they're doing it for Instagram for the video. Depends on who it is.

On average, yeah, I guess it's all over close. It depends who it is. You're asking the motor. Like if the writer's fucking killing it, they know. Right. But if he's done no-name or doing it, yeah. Right. Yeah.

So, Normaz, when did you get into MTA? I got an MTA in 2003, officially. and me and this guy right here. Same year? Same year. Same year. So we came about my boy, Sue him, rest in peace.

Shout out to my boy Sue and R.R.P. Him and my boy, Yepps got put on the meeting before. And right after that, we were just probably meetings apart. 03, I want to say, middle of it. And it just, from there, it's been.

Were you from another crew before you got into empty? Yes. Yes, I was. Okay, okay. Yes, I was. I was. How much, all right, you guys talk about, like, being from a crew the same way the

gang's talking about being from a gang. How similar is it, and are there, are there like glaring differences in which, like, I mean, how much, there's not a ton of violence associated, I'm assuming, but probably some. Not even like. For the record. Like, it's not. Yeah. We are not a gang.

Yeah. We're definitely not a gang. Like, hey, them fools up there on this cab or time, but they're from a set. No. Tag banging, no thugging. I don't portray that shit. I don't endorse that she. Don't do your life.

I got gang banging friends. But don't get a twig. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. We're not afraid. We ain't out here and fake it out here, baby. We have it for us. Nah, but, you know, like, as far as MTA, like, where you're off from?

Like, we're a graffiti art crew. We do graffiti on walls. The, the energies to go get up in fame and notoriety, you know. Have fun. Get around the world. That's a good shit. Makes sense. That's some real shit.

And then when you get in, O3. O3 as well. But you're not from L.A. Nope. Where are you from? I'm from, well, I grew up in the Bay, and then I moved to Washington State, and that's where I grew up. And then back to Frisco, and then from Friscoe down to L.A.

Okay. And I'm like gas. I'm older, too, so. And then, but when you were in Frisco, were you from another crew over there? I was from CA. You were from CA over there? Yeah. Which is also a legendary cool in the whole graffiti game.

Yeah, we just were about to do 30 years in that crew, too. Damn, that is crazy. You're CA too, no, no most? Yep, yeah. Come on, doc. Come on, my bad. Come on, you know, you already know. If you're in a gang, you can pretty much only be from one gang.

But you could be part of a multiple cruise. I'm from multiple crews. I'm not able to say that because I'm also, I'm from MTA. I'm from West Coast artists. I'm from UTI. I'm from J-O-R and I'm from TVU as well. You know, I'm not going to see the end. I'm just from MTA.

Fuck this. It's the camera. I rip all those. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, for sure. He knows who rises to the top. Right. You know. But okay, like to what extent, like how does the crew remain a crew as the years go by?

Because it's easy for me to understand how throughout the course of, you know, years or months that it's like you can remain tight. It's just a group of friends. This is what the crew is. But it feels like it's maintained itself in a way that's kind of different, right? Absolutely. Well, just like you said, what we promote, what we're about is individuals, all of us, it's next level. So compared to all these other crews that promote all this other bullshit, MTA has never been like this. that. And for us, we create better people, dope shit. Anybody who fucks with us becomes better, period.

If you come into our life, you're going to be better. That's just how we've always ruled. Facts, facts. For the past, since I've been in, since he got in, since, you know, and we just keep it going. There is no, like, hierarchy, anybody's better than, but definitely to keep it going, like you said, it started with a leadership role, you know, somebody that couldn't fucking take those reins in a sense and it'd be like, okay, we have a bunch of dope individuals that come from fucked up families and homes and shitty situations how can we fucking how can we make them better that's that's not an easy task but if you're mentally ready to take that on you can make everybody around you dope as fucking that that was my goal and i you know we all did that sure all right i got a question

i realized when i uh spent some time hanging out with the o tx guys that yeah there's definitely people out here doing graffiti that are under the influence of extremely powerful drugs oh 100 percent. We don't promote that. Do you respect it, though? Like, how common is that? And do you respect that? To me, it seems like you're just asking to get fucking thrown in jail. To me, teach their own, dog. Yeah, for real. To each his own, because at the end of the day,

whatever, that's their business. But do you guys allow it? That shit's toy. Do we allow it? Do we allow it? Do you? You're smoking dope, and you're just out there's out. That's just be honest. It's 90% of it. Yeah, no. Most graffiti writers are degenerate fucking idiots. Let's just keep it real.

I'm just being 1,000. People get mad to me. That's the character. That's it. That's sad. I'm not co-signing that one. But you fucking with us and we're gonna change that narrative, period.

Yeah, it's definitely gonna be different. Dope's fuck over here. Ain't no, obviously there's been addicts in our crew. It happens in life. But fuck, no, we don't promote that shit. I'm never gonna fucking tell people to get high. If you do shit,

I don't think anyone's gonna sit there and tell you what you're doing is right and pat you on the shoulder for throwing your life away in a substance. But then again, you're grown-ass man and I'm not your dad. So what the fuck? It makes sense to me because I know,

I know a lot of, like, rappers who rap about, like, how dudes need to take a Molly to catch a body and shit like that. Yeah, like, Papa Molly to do a throw-up. So do you want to know if people want a pop of Molly to go catch a billboard or something? Well, I mean, it kind of makes sense to me because sometimes when I see people do really extreme shit, graffiti-wise, especially in the middle of the day, I'm like, I don't know how the fuck you get yourself in the mental state to do that. Drugs would kind of make sense to me.

Adrenaline. Yeah. Adrenaline. Yeah, but also the love for graffiti for you guys, for you guys, I mean, fucking don't say your age, but you guys are still all in love from what I know with the game. I'm alive. I'm a life for the rest of my life. That's a part of my lifestyle.

It's funny because most people will be like, you guys are fucking idiots because you don't get anything from graffiti. There is no finish line. You don't get fucking money. You get a lot of bullshit, to be honest with you. Unless you carry a bullshit. At the same time, if you have something you love in life and you're able to do it, that's a blessing. And I live every day to the fullest because of it. I got a question, Mike.

Does graffiti, I feel like when I was a fan of graffiti, it was very much like this. Do you look at anybody who clearly is trying to get something out of graffiti? Do you look down upon that? And what I mean by that is like social media clout, you know, money, trying to get like legal gigs and shit like that. Is that still kind of like scorned and looked at as like not true to the real culture? For us, we don't hate on anybody. If any, you guys want to go that route, I'll love. That's what's up.

We focus on us in the group that we have and we just keep it pushing. Like, I don't hate, somebody wants to go to the art world, crush it, kill it. I want you to kill it. If your homies with me even tighter, I know you, you made it, though, you know what I'm saying? But I know you see a lot of shit. They're like, yo, that's whack as fuck. For sure. For sure.

That's the ditty thing. That's for sure. Toy shit. What do you think Instagram did a graffiti? I was in prison when Instagram came out. How long do you do? That makes two of us. He did 10 in the feds, and I did two, I did two on a four.

All for graffiti? No, I was on. No, I was on. He was on. He was on. He's the grimy side of the couch. Oh, shit. You do 10 years of graffiti?

I don't know, man. Self and gossip like this is our total friend we were talking about earlier. Oh, shit. So Instagram was new to me when I came out. I didn't know what it was. I was like, what the fuck is this? And I was still like cloak and dagger. Just until recently I started showing my face.

I started doing videos on my Instagram. I'm all about fucking making people better. Right. Finding my purpose, all that type of shit. So fuck, right. I mean, like, social media, like, Instagram is going to have the same effect on graffiti has on everything, which is, like, on one hand, it's a great place to just chronicle the shit image-wise that you have going on.

But at the same time, it creates this really perverse incentive structure where everybody sort of has this score, popularity that they could judge themselves by. And it kind of, it might even, like, warp the actual art because all of a sudden you're doing shit to get likes and you're not doing shit that you just think is dope for yourself. But if you're really in the streets and you're bombing, like, every single. city, fools know. That's what it's about. It's really a lifestyle. Everything else is different over here.

It's watered down. But if you're really putting in work every day bombing, then people are going to know. If they took away Instagram tomorrow. If you're not into it, nobody gives a fuck. If it took away the Instagram tomorrow, those who were accomplished and shine on Instagram are still going to shine in the day-to-day world.

You know anything else? If he was dope without Instagram, you're going to be dope with it without him? I remember back in the day watching a Coke 2 documentary where he was talking about how people would hate on him for trying to get his shit in. That must be new information. I watched his talking about it in 20 years. Oh, shit.

Jesus Christ, you're going to just throw that out there. Adam's like clip. I'm just saying he was talking about how back then people would hate for you trying to get in magazines or whatever because that was like the clout move of the time, which seems kind of quaint in comparison to these days where it's like social media. You could build up a YouTube channel,

yada, yeah, yeah, that's probably more common, right? I would say yes, but at the same time, I'm like, fuck, that person still had to paint the piece, get the paint, take the picture, go to the post office. Ain't no one trying to do that shit. But back then, so. But now we look at that, like, oh, that's mad respectable. If you get your shit in a magazine, that's like a shitload of work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. In comparison to Instagram where it's just being, yeah, everybody checking out. Okay. We're all three of you guys part of the indictment? Nope. No, the gang injunction? I was.

Nope, yep, yep, for sure. You were. He was so proud. Nope. Yeah. He's like, fuck, yeah. He's like, we lived to it. We survived that much.

Yes, yes, we did. Okay, so can you run us through that first year, the first month, the day they hit you guys? What happened and all that? Oh, whoa, fuck it. Actually, they didn't talk about this first. The biggest roller ever done in graffiti. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

Ever, ever. How does this idea even come into fruition? Because this has to be like 10, 20 times bigger than the other biggest roller you ever seen. And we need details. We need to know how much pain. Not so. Fucking, whose idea was it? And my idea with, who the fuck was I with?

centaur appear appear for sure toro and toro i think i was with legend and i said i want to go bridge to bridge and they're like what are you talking about i want to go from first street to fourth street or whatever the fuck it was so whatever that's how the idea started i was like okay i think we could do it i'm a bet i'm a bet i'm going to throw five bands on the seahawks and if we win we do the roller we don't win practical financial advice right yeah i like that We don't win. We ain't doing the roller. We hit.

We're up 4,800, and we just go clear out all the home depots. I rent a van. Prior to that, we have a meeting. It's fucking go time. You guys, I want... Who's in the meeting? Everybody. Squad.

We're squad deep. Deep. At that point, there's probably 25 of us, at least at the meeting when we have little gatherings, barbecues, chill out, whatever. So, hey, at this time, I kind of went into that leadership role. So, hey, stuff, this is what I need from you guys. I need you guys to show up for the next four days. It took four days.

It took longer than that. But just for them, we just needed the team to show up for those first. The first day, we went and fucking sketched it out with a can, just like made the markings. Okay, now we got to go find all the paint. Rented a van, cleared out, I don't know, three or four home depots. We had a gang of rollers. We had like 30 sticks. gray tarps to match the concrete

to lay the supplies down and cover it so they wouldn't see it because it's right in front of the station and the helicopter flies right above yeah couldn't you have picked a more low-key spot I mean at the end of the day like it was in the L.A. River like no one gave a fuck no one was going down there

at that point at that point at that was like a graffiti paradise so we get all the paint it ends up being about 500 gallons of paint I lived in downtown So everybody met in my parking lot

We fucking piled into the van We would drive into the river I'd drop everybody off with the supplies Different team at a time too And then fucking come back Do it again What do you mean by different team There was like shifts

There was more people Yes there was a lot of people There was like eight guys jump out the van Yeah I think we fit like 12 in the time And there was like 20 There was like 24 to 26 28 people the night Helping us

Literally Vicious. We had the homies dad. Popsal, brother. You guys earned that indictment. Let me tell you. Because that right, that sounds like some shit that would get you indicted. Like a team of criminals, you know? You got 28 motherfuckers under a tarp. Now you understand what you see.

Like they didn't look at like all these two kids, one spray painted an empty lot. This took some coordination of organization to the point like if people, government shit, if people start organizing like this, making crime happen like if we can't stop it, how much thought had you given into like what? might happen aside from like, oh, maybe the cops pull up and everybody's got to run and a couple people get arrested. The first night, I'm driving out with the homie and we have to open the gate

to get out a little tunnel and fucking LAPD's right there and they light me up. And the homie just jumps out the front seat and dips. I'm like, what the fuck, dude? We're burnt. It's the first night, God damn it. I just dropped everybody off. They're all down there. He's like, what are you doing? I was like, oh, I just ran at the van. We're doing some donuts down there fucking around, whatever. And he's like, get the fuck out of here I was like, fuck. But no, I wasn't even like that. It was by the fifth night, yeah, I was like, they're coming.

They're watching us. We need to get the fuck out of here. Right. But the first couple nights like, no, we're good. And then as the nights went on, other writers would come down to see what we're doing. And just like you said it. A whole show.

Across the street watching the old thing unfold. There was people cheering you guys on or was it like on some hated shit? No, for sure. They were definitely all love. A lot. All love. Hell yeah. Watching greatness.

This is like very early internet, but was it like Viral basically right away. Not even to get that flick, I rented a helicopter so we could go and fucking get the, there wasn't no drone shit then yet or anything so fucking Burbank Airport, rented the shit, went, got that flick right there.

Was that in the indictment? Yep. I said they rented a helicopter, they said all kinds of crazy shit. If you rent a helicopter to commit a crime, that's a big deal. Wait, wait, so with the truth that you planned, whoever planned the plane route, you guys planned it to where planes fly over

No, it was just so big. You couldn't be denied. That was the extra. Oh, just the news. The news actually went crazy. Oh, the news went extras. So there was like a saying that they fucking did the whole thing and I was like, these motherfuckers really went.

But it was in the flight path. They just took once they only happened to be in the flight path. So they came. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like that was pretty much. But yes, obviously any graffiti artist, you want the most people to see it as possible. Yeah. So they came at us first criminally.

They came, kicked down. the doors had the news cameras all that all that who got here for the everybody that was still on the indictment but we knew they were coming we knew fucking uh so it's kind of a crazy story so it's like one in the morning i'm chilling i get a phone call actually i get a text fucking possible raid on mta's tomorrow we're like what the fuck call the homie like yo what is this he's like yo my boy just text me uh the homie the homie just text us You have some good homings. Yeah.

Oh, bro, this guy said you have no idea. He saved me. He saved me. But anyways. So I'm like, okay, who's this source? Is it reliable? Are they a drug addict? What's the deal?

No, I went to school with this girl. She's normal as fuck, blah, blah, blah. I was like, all right, send a group text out to everybody. Like, hey, get your shit. Get the fuck out. If you're on file, for sure. Yeah. They're coming to your fucking door.

Get up out of here. Sent the text. Of course, I was on parole, so I couldn't go nowhere. but I waited out front. So a lot of people got out of town? No. Me and my boy were the only ones that paid any attention, stayed at the hotel,

and everybody else got popped in the morning, 7 a.m. So you got to be on the run for a while? I was on the run for, yeah, for like two or three weeks. Wow. So everybody that got busted, didn't say shit after like whatever, three or four days, everybody got released, and that was it.

We were, you know, obviously hot. Some people got deported, just that and the third. And then, I don't know, Man, they had deported because of this. Yes. Yeah. No, deported.

Wow. Mo. Centaur. Yep. Yep. And the love for graffiti would do that to you, dog. It's crazy. It's crazy.

It's crazy. It's crazy. It could. That's crazy. But so then how'd they come at you after that? With the civil suit. Right. That's when they tried to sue us.

That's when they hit us with the gang injunction. That's when they were like, okay, well, we can't prosecute you criminally. We're going to come at you civilly and shut you fuckers down. So criminally, they couldn't prove it, just because, there wasn't any like real evidence or anything. Nothing. And nobody snitched. Nobody, yes, everybody held their tongue.

That's a fact for sure. Right. Even motherfuckers that weren't even on that, weren't supposed to be on the indictment for sure held their tongue. They weren't even from MTA anymore. But did they like confiscate your phones and computers and shit as well? Yes.

They couldn't get evidence out of that. So we knew they were coming. Right. So me, I had everything emptied out. The homie had everything emptied out. So a lot of people still didn't have enough evidence, But right. But then so with the civil suit, how do they go about proving that you guys? You don't have to prove shit in a civil suit.

Really? No. 90 fucking something percent of all civil suits, you settle. Yes. You never usually win or lose. It's rare. But it does happen, but it's rare. But yeah. But it ended in jail time.

No jail time. I was already facing a lot of years in prison. It all hit me at once. When they got me on that indictment, I was already in Supermax. I had just seen my lawyer on my case, and I thought you forgot to tell me something. They're like, they called me back down, and I'm like, yo, what's up? And I walk in the room, and it's the sheriff, the DA, and some other asshole. The main piece of shit.

The main piece of shit. Oh, you know, fucking, you write stuff for this, that, and the third. I'm like, what are you talking about? I just played super stupid. Like, what are you talking about, bro? Like, I think you have wrong information. And he was like, you don't remember being arrested in this state and this state with this person. And I was like, I don't even know who that is.

What are you talking about? And they just slammed down this fucking booklet. And they're like, you've been served. They were talking about your boy, huh? Yeah. About you? Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, that's how I got indicted, not knowing that all these guys had already been hit. What's it like being in prison for graffiti? Are you, like, regretting it? Or are you kind of like it is what it is. I went to prison on some drug shit. Oh. This fool went, his first time, he did 16 would have. For prison, for sure, for graffiti.

And what, how's that feel? Because you love it so much that it felt rational. doing it, right? But how does it feel living with the consequences like that? It was a part of the lifestyle, man. You got to accept

your wins with your losses, you know what I'm saying? Right. So that was just it. But I feel like I became better. You know what I'm saying? That shit was dope.

I learned from it. Fucking grew and went and got into some other shit, fucking. But for the most part, I mean, I definitely lived it,

cool, came out, it was nothing. So before, backstory just for him like he was going down that path wanting a gang bang want a lot of the little hummys i'm a little older but they also like graffiti so when i saw that i took him in and said hey i'm gonna show you throw-ups i'm gonna show you some shit it's way doper than fucking gang-banging that shit's for the birds and fucking come fuck with me right and then they went the graph route never did i think in a million years they'd send a motherfucker to prison for fucking graffiti.

Never. Even if you got caught three, four, five times. Seven, eight times or some shit. Regardless. But yeah, so they do. And I would have never thought that, but that's the way it goes down here. Wow. Crazy.

But you entered the feds for a whole other thing. Yeah, that was a whole different. That was a whole different thing. That was a whole different thing. For graffiti you did, you were in and in all the county and then finally hit prison for it. Yes. The many multiple fucking 5-94 over. over and over and over catching the case

they finally said fuck this let's send this for the president right that's how it worked out okay but at a certain point in your graffiti career does it just begin to feel like all right I gotta if I'm gonna continue to express myself with spray paint I'm just not gonna be able to do it on fucking overpasses and shit like have any of you guys

had that realization of like if I'm gonna keep doing art I'm just not gonna be able to keep doing it the same way as I get older no you can still crush okay you just still me yeah for me yeah no you hop up a flight. You go to Europe. You know what I'm saying? There's this world. It's a big world out there and graffiti over there compared to here shits on it. Really? It's wide open, dog. Every country I've

been to, like, we take spakeations. People take vacations. We take spraycations. Graffiti is 100% alive and real with MTA, dog. We live this shit. So being able to be like you said, I know I can't paint in L.A. I'm burnt as fuck. I'll sprinkle a couple spots, but that's as far as I'm going. I already know I did my shit. I'm good. But as soon as I get out the country, it's go time. But isn't the potential police interference maybe even worse out there? I mean, you don't want to catch a case in Spain, right?

Dude, I just, I went to prison. I went to jail in Paris last week. I just got back. Last week. Yes. Last week, what day is today? Thursday? Wednesday?

Wednesday. Wednesday. So, yeah, Barcelona, Rome, Paris, New York here. Is getting caught in Paris not as big a deal? I'm not going to lie. It was intimidating. Like, I got away. I did some Jason Bourne shit.

It was tight as fuck. I burnt these fools are probably half my age. But in the process of the chase, I lost my side bag, had my fucking ID, Airbnb keys, all this shit.

That'll do it. That's it. So I made it back to the Airbnb, but I was locked out. So I was just sitting on the steps in like two hours, three hours later these fools come, paddy wagon.

And what do you got to do? Just give them some money? No, I just laughed. I was like, fuck me. I was like, fuck me, drove me to the fucking ghetto of Paris, and let me go.

in like 10 minutes. Really? But they didn't give me none of my shit. I had no money, no phone. I didn't have Jack shit, and I was in the hood. I mean, they were fucking smoking crack in the street. They were hollering at French, trying to sell me drugs. I'm just like, just grunting and shit, just trying to make it through, dog.

Wow. It was nighttime. I was like, oh, this is, this is not where I want to be. Wow. That's sick. Well, yeah, it was a cool little story. I respect that. No, because I've been on vacation.

Like, we were on some, we were on Guadalupe, the island. Yeah. And it was, like, pretty obvious. to me that like a couple of graffiti dudes had just like taking a little trip there for a week and just fucking tore everything up unless there just happened to be a couple of dudes who lived here which it didn't seem likely

but I was like that's inspiring and it must be fun fuck you guys remember the first time you guys almost died hitting like a billboard or maybe just some street shit like while fucking doing graffiti myself anybody anybody any of you guys I've been shot at

wait guys you got electrocuted downtown LA my rooftop my rooftop Boy, Resiccum, T.A. I was going up there to do our shit and grab the wrong connection and let's just do the rest. How bad was it, though? I still fucked up nerves on my right hands this day. Wow. Like the skin had burnt up and it was like, like toes, you could like chip it off, like the epidermal layers. Wow. Still is nerve damage to this day. That's fucked up. But did you guys still paint the spot? Fuck no. I don't know. You have to go to the hospital

right away. I didn't go to the hospital. I just, what are you going to do? I mean, I'm young. I was like, what, 20 maybe, 21? What am I going to do? What am I'm going to do? Dude, no, seriously, when that happened, shit, that was like 19. That was, being my first pad, yeah, like 19, 18, what are you going to do? Walk in my hospital and be like, I was up on a rooftop illegal, doing a felony vandalism. And, like, yeah, they might cheat me, but they also might fucking have a cop. I wouldn't tell them all that. I would say I got electrocuted by an electric fence or something.

But still, where did you get electric? I'm saying? I would just not say anything. I don't know. They're going to ask me. Back to the crib. I was just like, I'm alive. I didn't go to jail.

Let's just go home and this So it wasn't meant to be Is that free workout or is that lean? No, we don't fuck around This is water You're just like I know, he's like, fuck, what is that? What about you?

Noamaz? What's up? You remember one time You almost died? Getting a billy, freeway I can't recall Definitely not at all fucking About to die, fuck

You know what I mean? That's a big way. For you? Most dangerous situation You found yourself in I almost not from falling but from fools. Okay, yeah, okay, that comes too.

This is a foo. I would think more people get asked. I'm one of them, yeah. Yeah. I'm one of that. I definitely been shot at multiple times. But who was like a gang man? Yeah, being the wrong hood off the freeway.

Like, I remember turning around and seeing the fool like Ricky fucking out the window with the double barrel like, boom. And I was just, chips of the fucking freeway wall. And they know you're not a game member. They don't get what you. Green light on the taggers. Yeah. Fucking land. Get these food.

Oh shit. I'm out. Fuck taggers. Yeah, I'm out. I remember all that for sure. Do you respect Duno as an alleged graffiti icon? No, he's got anything about what he's got going on? He's a comedian, right, but he's got some notebooks.

He'd be writing his name and shit. Oh, he's passionate about it. Yeah. There's no doubt. Okay. Shout out our boy's owner. I heard, I heard, you know, got out. Big zone for sure.

Jason just told me, he's like, I think we might have underwritten or like underestimated Duno. I think he's out of the graffiti game. I think he's out here. He's probably not now. There's a difference between liking it and growing up with it, but the passion, damn, and their crew has is like out of a whole other. Because I remember growing up, it was, one, when you start painting,

you always get this history about the city. So I grew up like in Dalchal Eco Park, so it's like, the biggest crew were from our area, you know, the MTAs and all the other crews, and you hear this. And then you go to YouTube, which is my era, Internet, and then you see this fucking, fucking bridge-to-bridge shit, and then you finally meet one growing up in the fucking Echo Park Lakeway.

everybody's fucking drinking 40, then you're like, wow, that's you how you did that? You never really want to ask, because obviously it's different when you're the youngest one there with certain older hummies, but it's like, huh, you're probably that cool with that, you feel me? That's what we do it for, to inspire the youth, you know what I'm saying? All the younger kids, even older people, I don't give a fuck, like, straight up. Like, if we can inspire you to fucking go after your dream, your passion, I don't give a fuck what it is. That's what we project.

That's what we want. Give me the overall health of graffiti in L.A. I feel like myself, along with a lot of people, during COVID, we were, we were like, damn, there's a hell of people hitting the fucking freeways and shit. It's beautiful right now. It's, like, stronger than it's been in a long time, you feel like? I haven't seen it this crush with spots running like downtown and all over, really, just since the pandemic.

Right. It's almost like Europe in a sense because Europe, it's everywhere, bro. There is no, like, spots on the ground. Right. You better bring a-spain and shit. Yeah, you're not. You've got to bring a ladder, all that shit. And here, hopefully it slowly starts to get like that because at the end of the day, bro,

it's just wasting a shit ton of taxpayers money. It's never going to go away. just let the shit I don't bathe a lot of things do you feel like the cops are not as aggressive with it as they used to be

hell no not right now really they got so much I don't want to find out that's for sure yeah I don't want to find out

but it feels like a lot of crimes the punishments are a lot more lax these days once they start that whole defund shit I'm just saying

yeah it's pretty wide open out there it's crazy out there but like can a cop see you and not really trip as hard as they used to

I mean I try and crack a smile up though you know what I'm saying it it feels like a lot more cops are kind of like in on the joke like that's kind of how I felt of like hey man it's all good like like even riding bikes and stuff during the pandemic I felt like a lot more

times cops were just talking to me like a fucking human being and it was it was weird I think I think it depends like if the cops having a bad day he just happened to be painting oh he's gonna fuck with you yeah for sure but then some couple for sure I've I've got him pulled over and actually off with your boulevard and they just took our shit and popped all the cans in front of us that we had in our backpacks and was like get the fuck out out of here, get lost. Wow. And that kind of sucked more.

I was like, fuck, I sup. You know what I mean? All the pain's gone. But obviously, we're underage, so we couldn't have it either way. But, you know, I mean, now every time, like, every once in a while I get pulled over and, you know,

they'll be like, oh, let's check the trunk and I'll have pain. I'll be like, well, bro, I do, like, Instagram and shit. I'm like, okay, cool, you know? I wish. Every time they say, Sterky, you step out of the car? I'm going to jail. Fuck. Fuck.

Can you guys think of a couple of crews that kept up with you guys at your level of graffiti? I don't know. Who do you think? From... From L.A.? I'm going to say just honestly, like us as a crew, like we were kind of an underdog crew

for a long time. Very long time. And then we fucking, I think probably your generation, really the 03, 05, 0607, all the way until now. To the 10, honestly, yeah, from 04 to 010,

after that, I guess it got a little different because I wasn't around after then, but I missed a lot of that. But you guys do understand that you guys are... I'm just saying Like if you guys could give

These certain crews like a Hey, pal you guys kept up, we're still better But you know what I mean? Like who was those crews that kept up During those throughout all these years? What do you think for L.A? I think, yeah, I mean, right now I think a lot of crews are though

OTR Okay, yeah They've kind of kept up I mean they're crushing they got a solid team For sure they got a solid team K4Ps should That's been paying forever K4P been paying for AVR

I don't I mean not I don't know about consistent or that. But like, having the motherfucking streets on log, I don't think no other, like, fucking MTA just, you know. Maybe, I got brothers friends out there. But no disrespect, yes. Maybe BTM? Shut up, BTM.

They've been holding it down for a while, but. I know a few. Yeah, a few individuals. Yeah, I would say, I was just saying, like city to city, coast or from L.A., period. I mean. It's a hard question. When you're asking people that have been paying this long, it's kind of like, uh, it's fucking hard.

As far as a comeback crew, if you want me to give it. Okay, so for rollers and people that have been around a long time, the OCPs, they've been around a long time. They're still fucking getting spots from here to the IE to fucking in beyond Vegas everywhere. Fucking, and right now I would say the STPs. Yeah, they got the crews. They got a, I'm just saying resurgence as far as rollers on the side of the highways, they're killing it.

And they've been for like probably four years straight now, I would say. What's one crew or tagger that never got their respect they deserved? Everybody, I mean, if you're If you're doing it, you're gonna get love. But what's somebody from your guy's arrow that what you guys wish they got the pat in the back in the graffiti game?

That may be somebody from my generation wouldn't know. There's a lot, man. I don't know, most writers here. I have a question. Yeah. Do you know who Shy 47 is? Yeah.

IRL, you know him? Like, as a person? Yeah. No. I see him, like, he has so much shit. Well, I've been in this game. I know, like, a lot. of shit like like like i can't say anything about where i live but i see shit everywhere i

fucking live and then one time i was watching this fucking youtube clip where this YouTuber gets in an argument with a guy and the guy says my name's fucking shy 40 like he says it and i'm like that probably was not him i was very confused like is this a troll what and then i started talking to shy 47 on instagram and then he eventually realized i realized it's just some kid pretending to be him scamming people and i'm like damn oh so you thought it was uh You got catfish? I was talking to him and then I realized I was being catfish. My guy I thought he was writing his game on signs here in my crib.

Nah, he's a beast. Yeah, he does fire shit. Him and Hobbes. Yeah, they took the whole graffiti roller game. Obviously, you guys did this shit, but I'm talking about like, me fucking, like, when I started painting like 2012, I'm only born in 2000, starts up in like 2012, 2013. And I remember they were just fucking on some shit.

They were like out of whole. other level. Like, it was just always like, what the fuck? Like, is this all you do? I've never seen them do regular throes. Shy our hopes. I've never seen a throw. Rollers only.

Rollers only. That's their thing. That's their niche. You've got to find a niche in the graffiti game and make yourself, you know? And that's their niz. I got a question. When I live in New York back on the day, I always felt like it was like a weird tension between like graffiti artists and like street art kids.

Because Brooklyn was just like the hipster fucking capital of the universe of the and everybody like is hyped on Banksy and shit. Does that tension still exist? You still see people doing weird ass fucking hipster, like weak-paced shit? I still see it, but it's not like a, it's all love. Like we just did some shit with Alec Monopoly. The homie did some shit like the other, I don't know, was it three or four weeks ago?

Yes. So it's like, whatever. If people want to reach out and pain with us, it's the fuck, dude, let's rock. Yeah. So, yeah, no, like I said, we don't hate on nobody. We don't give a fuck what you're doing. We know what we're about. I do street artwork all.

I pay a bunch of street artworks. Yeah, this guy's got a gang, a gray boxes. The utility boxes, I pay 100 of those things around the other day. I do a whole, I'm an art guy, like I'm older. I just, I do rock shit. That's dope. One time I was getting off the train when I was like 15, drunk up in 40 and I saw you. Me?

Yeah, and then I was. Where at? Hollywood. What year was this? Like, was it 2014? 2014? 2014, you sure? Maybe.

And I was getting off and I was drunk. It had to be you. It had to be you. You're always drunk. But I was fucking. I was like, I was like, Are you drinking still in 14? You had to be.

I was drinking then, yeah. It had to be. Off the red line. Painting somewhere and we're trooping. We were walking. I was painting in the street? Not, not like a bomb. You weren't doing like a fucking hot spot.

You were just like catching. You were walking and catching a bike with me? Probably not. It probably wasn't. It probably wasn't you. I was at a bike on me. I was a bike messenger than I always had a bike. I was in a car.

That's a good job for also being. able to get up is doing the bike message thing. I always think about that, like, Dan, if I was a postmates driver and graffiti artists, I bet I could get some serious work in. I bet there's some people out there crushing that route. Some people drive around the city all day. I drive around the city all day.

I do a couple deliveries, buy a couple cans. You're back at work. Straight letters, throwies are style. For me, all of the above. Overall style, because if you're still doing straight, letters and thoys for 20, 30, 40 years. Like, do you ever elevate?

Like, you know? Damn, I thought Zoners sound like when he talks to us. But I don't like elevate. Like, I don't like fucking super like, like I, I respect. You know, like, I respect the super technical pieces and the Euro looking ass, abstract, 3D looking shit. I respect it, but I don't really want to look at it. It don't got to be that crazy though.

Just like. I mean, my favorite shit is tags and throws. For sure. Tags and throws. Yeah, because when you're going down Merrill, I, I understand. some of the shit as a, obviously as somebody that loves graffiti, but like, some of the shit is like, all right, bro, you did too much that only you and whoever was there understands the shit.

So I should. Got out of foundation. And then it just looks like you add extra lines to your letters, so it just makes it look extra. You're talking about, like, the pieces, the graffiti pieces? Yeah, the graffiti pieces. Well, some of that shit isn't a piece, really. If it's dope pieces, it's just shit throwing the wall, then it's shit throwing the wall.

Yeah, because some of the shit, I'd be like, I don't fucking understand. I'm trying to shit. That's too much. Yeah, it's got to be legible. It's got to be legible. It's like tattoos. Like tattoos, like, I appreciate, like, classic fucking simple tattoos, thick black lines, shit like that. I like that type stuff.

You know, it's not for everybody. But I feel like, I don't know, when I see graffiti, I just want it to look a certain way. I don't want it to look so abstract. But that's just me. Something you can read? Reading is good. Yeah, I like being able to read it. You're like, look at it.

How much money did the article say they took? when they were ready your spot. They said they took a lot, but they didn't, they said they got the chain, but they didn't get the chain. How much was the chain? I just had got it appraised. It was like at 32, 32, 36 or some shit. You dropped 32 on the MTA chain?

Yep. Back in the day, when you're young, you do stupid shit, bro. I would never do no shit like that again. Let me tell you. Where's that chain now? You sold it? I did sell it. Hey, when you go down, you know what I'm saying? When shit happens, it's a fan,

you got to sell some shit, sometimes. Damn, you saw the MTA chain, though? Yeah. Well, it's a long story. I could get into it, but in the end, yeah, got burned the whole nine, but whatever. But yeah, fucking, so they didn't even get the chain. So like I said, we knew they were coming on that raid.

So, long story short, they were all having a dinner. All the sheriffs were having a dinner at a Denny's, and they were talking about it. Oh, we're going to raid these cock suckers in the morning, blah, blah, blah. Some random chick sitting in the next booth, and she just knows a graffiti writer. And she's, like, calls him like, hey, you know the MTAs? It's his ex and shit. It's like his ex reaching back out.

The homie's ex. Shout out her. Shout out her. So she fucking, get all that. We're like, all right, we're out. I only left a little, like, canvas in my apartment that said, fucking graffiti is a fun crime. The only thing I left for him, they didn't get shit.

Uh-huh. So. I have a question. Is there shit that people, people do graffiti wise that rubs you the wrong way that you think makes graffiti as a whole hot like shit that people can do that's a little bit too over the line disrespectful to society not just not not to society but like they were going to go whatever they're like we're not to society but like some toy shit is like if you see like a legend or somebody to put in a lot

of work he's got a dope tag but really it should be a filling right there and then some fucking lame comes and does a feeling over it that part is lame for what we're But that's about it. I'm talking about, like, when I've seen videos of people, like, writing on cop cars and shit, like, middle of the day. Bro, it's just paint on a surface, dog. Can't hate on it? Hell no.

I mean, I would paint on a church. I'm not against it. Really? I would not. Some people feel their way. Is that because you are against organized religion? Or is that because you just believe you should be able write on anything? I just see the kind of bullshit that they'd be pushing on, you know what I'm saying?

So it's like, little spray thing. It probably wouldn't hurt. Interesting. I wouldn't paint on a church either. I'm doing an abandoned church. I'll do an abandoned church. Yes. A church that's active and well

and there's Tiaz and Sunday. I mean, not if it's a nice suburban fucking church, but if you're in fucking New York City and it's face in the front of the street and the whole, you know what I'm saying? But I would always get into that argument? Would you, here's a question,

would you be the first one of writing a church? Phil's a church there brand new by itself. Would you be the first one to bomb on it? Of course not. Would you? I don't know. That's this question you should ask you. That's pretty intense shit.

That's pretty intense shit, but sure. I'm not religious at all. I'm not religious at all. It's not a matter of my original preference. That's not what it is. It's a matter of fact of what a church means in the pillar of society. I don't operate in that. I don't operate in that pillar. Like, you know what I'm saying? There's some graffiti artists who their whole world is like Jesus Christ. And like, you know what I'm happy for them though. I don't want to even like, I do enough shit for people to point fingers at. You know what I'm saying? I don't need to do the obvious shit. You know what I don't need the people be, I don't want people. I don't want people looking for me because of one tag on one building

because that means that much to them. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying that's a better building than anything else, but tag on that building is going to make a lot of a gun-happy Christian, Catholic, whatever, Protestant, Jewish cops, very good his ass.

In which case, if you don't want that, for sure. I don't need that kind of energy. Would you bike a church? Well, but this is the thing. When I was just in Brooklyn, there was a couple different spots that we were riding that are basically like veterans of war monuments. And these are like famous spots

that like everybody who bikes or skateboards has written and nobody gives a fuck and it's like one of these rails has been people have riding for 20 years like I've written it I don't give a fuck but a church would I ride my bike on a rail at a church? Yeah I don't give a fuck if it was cool

but again I'm not trying to like fuck my shit. I'm not going to like go grind the fucking cross just to make a statement or something I'm not trying to be like extra disrespectful of the church. Like I said Okay so you would have heard The Palacito Alvera?

Nah. You can't do that, right? What fuck is that? That's like one of the biggest, it's like the biggest church in Los Angeles. Officer Chavez? I thought probably one of the first churches in Los Angeles. If you get to history, that was like the beginning of Los Angeles, the center of where L.A. was started.

I would leave that. That's one of the most cultural places of this. I'm just saying, like you said, in New York, there's certain spots if it's there, like I wouldn't be against it. You've never seen a stuff on a church. That's just for the record. You never seen it. For the record, but I'm not, I wouldn't hate on anybody if that's the spot they did.

I got a homey. not worth the back. I got a homie that I've been friends with since he was a kid. And bro, he's like, diehard graffiti artist all of a sudden. And I'm, like, worried about him. Because it's like, the way he's going,

it's like, you're going to get busted at some point, dude. Like, I don't know. I don't think they give a fuck about it anymore, bro. In New York? I don't know. Definitely not in New York. Dude, it's fucking crushed right now. Really?

It's crushed. Like mid-90 shit. Yeah. Ridiculous. But, I mean, shit. If they catch you red-handed, they still going to get your ass. He's got a fat-ass ticket.

You got to show up to court. But fucking... Not even that. You fucking... Get the fuck out of here? Yeah, the homie got caught when we were out there. He was fucking out in two hours.

Damn. Top five younger graffiti crews coming up that you guys give it to. Cruise or... Crews or... Or should, individuals. Oh, that's a good one. No, my.

Top five individuals? Or just... I mean, so you can put it... But just five individuals. Individuals or five crews or individual crews that you've seen get up at your like now that you're older and you're like that are still going Yeah like no not like that that that are new it but you guys seen them doing their shit and you're like fucking keep doing your shit You guys are you know you guys are making graffiti kind of look good you know what I mean like stay alive like it's dope you know what you guys are doing you guys aren't doing like maybe the fucking uh the r ems obviously you said before the ODRs maybe that

Yeah, W-A-I's. No, they've all been around, though. He said newer crews? Yeah, newer crew. So I would say maybe RX-I's. Okay. As far as, like, a crew that, newer crews that I've seen

that have been doing it for a few years. About being dubbed shit? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe to be in doves. Being dubs kill it. All the STP things. See, he's saying new crews, I'm saying, like,

I mean, that's not new, but yeah, but. But like, but like. That's about it. You know what I'm saying? Okay, yeah. For me, that I could think about top. There's a bunch of the crews out there. guys like this people doing it different aspects different you know different things they're doing it

if there's somebody watching this right now and they're like all right i'm sold i want to be a bomber that's right what would you tell them how do you get in the game what's the respectful way to go about learning the crafts you just have to pick a dope name do a little research and go have a good time there's no expectations there's no right or wrong just go rip it if it makes you feel good do it more if you don't like it or if you're afraid of jail or any of that shit then it's not for you. And just don't do it, period. You know, there's legal walls you can probably go paint,

but if you're trying, like you said, a bomber, just know that that's, you're going to go to jail. Right. At some point. I'm somebody who I'm not, I'm not going to go do graffiti, but I frequently get sucked into watching fucking YouTube videos of people doing graffiti.

Is there any shit, like content-wise, whether it's Instagram or YouTube, that you watch that you think is dope and worth checking out? For graffiti? Yeah. Nah, just, I would say travel, bro. Stamp that passport. That's not an option.

I want to sit on my couch and watch people spray paint shit on TV. You fuck with any grab? I don't really fuck with it. I'm in a motel cross, so that's really what my computer shit. I would just be all in the motor like a nerd. See, I'm watching other people's subcultures. So. I'm too pussy to take part.

Watching, watching graffiti? You want to come painting? You don't know. You're ready? I know, right? You've been offered a couple times. I offered him trash. Have you tried it?

You ever traded? It spent like 20 years. What was your nickname when you were being? It was some bullshit. I don't want anybody Googling me, so I'm not letting that out. I got some photos that I'll bring it for you. You got some photos.

I did a roller on a train one time. I'll show you that you'll be like. Get the fuck. You didn't do no. I swear. On a fucking train back in the day. Bro, if you give me that, I'll pay for that, so I'll frame it in my house.

You was just in Boston? Yeah, Boston was tight. No, you want the M-22 graffiti history lesson. So basically, I was on the 12-ounce-profit forums. I'm like 15. and I met these dudes. There was this dude, Aves, and this dude Speck, who was a huge legend in Boston. Speck Network crew?

Yes. And I ended up meeting up with them at the mall because I was talking about how I had a fire-ass train yard, and they were like super into it, and they lived 40 minutes away or some shit. So we meet up, they realize I'm not a cop. We go to the train yard, and I'm like this young-ass kid just watching these dudes do these insane pieces, and they're smoking blunts and drinking 40s, and I'm young as fuck. I've never been around that before. You were hypes.

Oh, hell yeah. I took the fucking crylon pill that night, my friend. And, man, we even got chased out of there one time because they kept coming back and, like, they were doing crazy shit. There was this dude, KEMS, like KEMS, who was just doing a whole fucking top to bottom train. He still paints big shit like that. Mind blowing. And the fucking, the railroad cops or whatever, they show up.

And I'm watching this motherfucker like not want to leave. Like, he's trying to put the finishing touches on it because his shit was like 95%. done like it would have I know I could tell that it would have been painful for him to have that shit running and just to have these details at the top not filled in and he was so like but we ended up fucking running through the woods and they didn't get us but I got good memories of that's the best part yeah every time you get away is a fucking great feeling it is it is what are the number one rule for what was the number one rule in graffiti for me have fun if it ain't fun for you why the fuck are you doing it you know what I'm saying like

I said, you don't really get anything out of it, but if it makes you as an individual happy like it does for me, then that's number one. Otherwise, respect. Find something else. That's right. Because if you're so gung-ho you want to go and start writing all over people's shit, you're going to learn really, really, really fast that that wasn't the right approach. You know, I'll keep it 100. Even you guys this long in this game is it still bomb straight letters overthrow, even shit like

that, that's still the rule? I don't know. Okay. For the most part. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Rules to apply. Very, very, very, very, exactly.

I agree to disagree, but yeah, yeah. It depends. It depends. You're asking. Like, everyone's got an opinion. Obviously, there's no, sure. Some people still feel that way. You feel like somebody has a banging-ass straight later and you just fucking,

you're kind of a douche if you go over it with a throw right? 100%. Yeah, definitely. But no, my sister's like, huh? I mean, it depends. With a criteria, if you personally don't like that person. Then fuck him. Yeah, exactly.

That's not, yeah. I'm applying. I'm talking about, like, a kid with a can is walking on a street. and see some dope pieces, some dope throwing the walls, wants to tag on it, or just doing scribble, scrabble. That's some bullshit. There was this guy back in the day

that I painted with Oweja, and he only painted with stock caps. Is that still a thing? Does anyone do that? I mean, it's a technique if people still pay him with a stock tip. I mean, it definitely did not look as good as everybody else's shit,

but it was like his own style. It's kind of this different thing. It's a functional thing. Yeah. You know, it's like... Probably made his life simple in some ways. But it's a thing, like, with the newer,

wave, the youth, they'd be liking that stock-tick, trippy, anti-style weird. It was crazy. Now that you think about it, I think, I remember when we go painting and do hot boy shit, we thought, I thought I was like, damn, daylight shit, you're fucking lit. You're active, but then now that I think about it, I remember the others, like, forget that stupid, you're going to go to the jet or going to night. But I just think the daylight said that generally rest of the way feels better. You just vibe it out.

If you're catching light, you're just doing a run-up and you're just, you know, driving around, you're like, no, that's pretty fucking day. I think we could bang it out. You know, go with that gut, that intuition. If you feel it, rock it. If not, you know, come back at night. I respect it. I respect it.

Thank you guys for entertaining all of my toy questions and whatnot. I love. Appreciate you even thinking about having us on here. We're ours. It's been very educational. This shit was lit. It was fun. Good shit, man.

Good time. Much respect. You guys holding it down all these years, doing crazy, legendary shit. We got to make that shit the background of the thumbnail. This shit's lit. Yeah, we got to find the pictures somewhere in Google, right? Yep. Spitz you so we could just make it.

Yep. Fire. And thank you. Yeah, this is going to look amazing on the wall here, for sure. I'm so worried. Appreciate you guys. Appreciate you guys. 100%.

Thank you, Duno. Yeah. Shout out, Duno. Zona. Appreciate you, bro. Thank you. Yes, sir. MTA.

All day, for sure. No Jumber. Coolest podcast in world. Check us on YouTube, TikTok, Patreon, Instagram. Like, comment, and subscribe. Nojumber.com. If you want to support. Thank you.

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