The Papoose Interview: Retiring from Rap, Marriage to Remy Ma, Brooklyn Upbringing & More
00:00No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world.And today I have somebody who was by far a huge influence on me in my early years, Papoose.Wow, man.I'm honored to hear that, my brother.And you know I'm not cap'am because I just showed you a legendary BMX video part that was scored to one of your earlier songs.You definitely did, man.You blew my mind with that, man.I ain't going to allow it.
00:22And then the song that it was was the last one I expected.Really?Take it to the guns.That's a classic that you haven't heard about in.long time? No, it's a classic in my heart to me, but to hear somebody else, you know, I mean,of your caliber. One thing that stands out to me when I watch that is how little I knew aboutguns at that time. I didn't know anybody who owned a gun. I never touched the gun. But hey, we knewthat shit sounded hard. No doubt, man. And that was dope. And the tricks he was doing on the bike,
00:51it was just crazy. Yeah, 100%. The craziest thing about it, too, is just that he, Edwin De La Rosa,for those who care about what we're talking about, he was like, the, the,the biggest most influential rider from Brooklyn.So for him to be, and his video partthat blew everybody's mind before that was to What Up Gangsta.So then for the second part to be edited to that song,and for them to start with the Bill Withers song,the Ain't No Sunshine when she's gone,
01:17and then transition into your song,oh my god, that transition killed me.And you know what's crazy about that,was interesting is back then, we didn't have,social media wasn't as prominent.Right.So nowadays, if that happened to an artist,they would be able to connect with him.
01:30him and cross-promote or whatever.It would just would have been a dope opportunity to meet him.Because we were riding BMX in New York City every day,and we didn't know any rappers, we never saw any rappers.I swear to God, I've seen Jim Jones in a Lambo one time or something.And that was like my star experience.Right, right, right.It was just so much harder to figure out how to mingle with people that you thought were
01:52important at that time, you know?Definitely, man, definitely.That shit was fire.I actually want to follow him some more and see more of his work.And you too, because you're too,You used to do your thing, too.We used to ride bikes.Yeah, that was a very long period of my life, for sure.
02:05Wow.Because, okay, I have another very, like, strong memory in my head of,so I grew up more, like, outside Boston, like, 45 minutes outside Boston.So New York City was kind of, like, always the place that we wanted to go.But it was like, you know, we didn't get to go there very often.And the first time I ever went there to ride bikes, we're driving through, I realized at some pointas we start to get into the Bronx, like, oh, shit, put the fucking radio station on Hot 9-7,because I've been hearing about Hot 97 my whole life.
02:31And I want to hear what the hell they're playing on a Friday night or whatever.And I remember hearing the Jane Cam song,which was like, you know, the ultimate New York anthem at that time.And then all of a sudden they bring a kid that I never heard before on.His name is Papoose and he's freestyling his ass off.And it was like the most aggressive thing I'd ever heard.And it just really like struck me.Like this is my first time.
02:56I'm actually in New York City.Like I was an adult.and this this this is just the sound of the city to me at that time like it was a totally different level of aggression and bars and shit and to me that always just like cemented you as like the default soundtrack for that time period of my life for sure yeah that yo let me tell you something that's influential for me yeah like when i hear things like that it makes me inspired to stay on that path or get back on that path or just be creative you know what i'm saying so i appreciate that man okay so tell me like what was the thesequence of events that took place before you started to really end up on New York CityRadio, freestyling all the time and stuff. For people who don't know about early on in yourcareer, what did your hustle and how were you building up your rap career approaching that time?Oh, man. Honestly, you know what I mean? To be an emcee was a dream of mine since I was a littlekid. It was just something that I wanted to do, man. I became mesmerized by hip hop. You know,
03:54hip hop is something you live, rap is something you do. So I became attracted to the coach ata very young age, just the way they dress.You know what I mean?And I actually started out, if you want to go to the very beginning as a beatboxer.Oh, wow, I didn't have not known that at long.Yeah, I was a beat boxer.I was trash.Yeah, I was a trash beat boxer.
04:13But you just picked that up around the neighborhood or what?Yeah, man, I just had, I just was watching.I was very observing as a kid.And I picked it up.I just seen like cats doing the here and there.And a cousin of mine, he was basically telling me,about different family members who were actually breakdancersand one was a rap or the other one was a graffiti artist
04:34and I was like, really? They draw on the wall?I was young like 70 years old and it just caught my attention from thereand then one day a family member had came over to the houseand he was playing, I'm sorry, a friend of the familyand he had a cassette tape and he was playing itand I just heard this guy with all these metaphorsyou know, I mean later on I found out of his Big Daddy Kane.He was just rapping and caught my attention so he went to the bathroom
04:57I took the tape out of the cassette deck and I put it in my pocket.He came back.He was like, you anybody seen my tape?I was like, no, I didn't see it, man.And that was long-lived to cane, you know what I'm saying?And from near on, man, I said, y'all want to be a rap.I wrote my first rap.I went to school.
05:12I said it to my friends.And he was like, oh, I was like, yeah, this is what I want to do in my life.So from early on, you felt like you had some talent?Yeah, yeah.I didn't know, but that reaction from my actual friends back then,that inspired me to write more rhymes, you know what I'm saying?Right.And I was just grinding, grinding, and I ended up in the studio, a friend of mine in the neighborhood by the name of D.R. Period.
05:32Okay.You know what I'm saying?Me and him was working together back then.The whole SMG, Smooder, Hustler, Trigger the Gambler, who was doing, like, you know, projects together, music, and that together and all that.Then eventually, I put out alphabetical slaughter back then.Okay.So I had alphabetical slaughter when I was a kid.I started writing.
05:51Oh, really?You started writing a thing.I wrote alphabetical slaughter when I was a kid.Wow, that's so interesting.So, yeah.That's still the default thing that people who don't know that much about you, that's what they bring out.Yeah, yeah.And it amazes me when people still talk about alphabetical slaughter to this day because I literally wrote that when I was a kid.
06:07Wow.And I only had three letters I had from A to C.So when I would get into a battle and a rapper wouldn't tap out, I would do alphabetical slaughter and the battle would be over.They were like, it's over, it's over.You can't rap no more, you know what I mean?So, you know, we decided to put it on the vinyl.So I finished it.I went O-A-to-Z and we recorded it.
06:27I put it out like maybe 98 or something like that.Oh, you're out that early.That's so interesting.Yeah, people didn't really know.A couple people knew about me, but not that many.Then later on, when I met Slai in 2004,that's when the world really hurt Alphabetical Sotomaybecause we redid it.
06:41Right.You know what I'm saying?So you were somebody, would you say when you look back at it,I feel like a lot of people are kind of motivated these daysto rap to represent their area or to, you know,because a lot of times rap and like street stuffare so embedded with each other that a lot of times people like get into rapping to like this somebodydo sound like you are really into it just from like a lyrical and creative and artistic
07:03expression yeah i love the creative side of it i feel like that's very important becausestill sharp and still so back then it was like if you rap and i rap we had to go at itthere's no way around it oh you rap for real oh let's go really like it was automatic and that'swhat it was about so i came in you know challenging just you know you knowAnd in my mind, I already knew, like, my friends, if they heard somebody with rap and I wason another part of town, they would call me, hey, come over here. We got one. Like, it was like,I was like a cheat cold. It was like, we knew this guy wasn't going to win. So they would put moneyup. And this is, this is real, this is real, I can curse on here, right? This is real shit.
07:42Like, this is a, this is facts. So Casper put their money up and I would just kill him.Right. I batted like 10 dudes at one time by myself, you know what I'm saying? And I was,I used to be, I was little at the time. And you weren't getting money for doing this.You were just doing it for pure bragging rights?The only money I would get is we would bet money, what I mean?And I would get that pocket change, you know what I'm saying?Right.A couple hundred dollars, nothing made you.
08:02Wow.You know what I'm saying?That must be so hard for a lot of people to understand that being nice was that important.It was important.Even battling for money didn't come to later.In the beginning, no, it was just to show your skill.Right.And it wasn't just rap.
08:16If you was a break dance or a beatboxer, whatever it was, you wanted to show your skill.So it was about respect and about the craft more than a dollar.Right, 100%.So at that time, were you doing like the sort of underground DVD circuit and the VHS tapes and all that kind of stuff before you got with Slay?Or is that how you got on his radar or you just met him randomly?No, I hadn't done none of the DVD stuff.What happened was how I met Slay was, you know, I was hustling.You know what I mean?
08:44I was doing a couple of things I had no business doing.I was in the street.And I had made a bad decision when I was younger, you know.I was so confident in my music career.And this is what I encourage everybody not to make this mistake.I told myself that, hey, I don't need to finish school.I don't need to do none of that because one day I'm going to be successful in music.And that was the biggest mistake I made because if I could do it all over again,
09:05I would definitely go back and finish school because making that decision caused me to end up in the street.So ended up in the street, I started hustling and doing things I had no business doing.To make a long story short, I got arrested for hustling at the time.But before I got arrested, I had heard the radio, and I heard this guy on the radio,And he was very interesting to me because he was playing new artists.So at that time, if you wasn't coming in from Murder, Ink, Rough Rider, or any of those camps,or Rockefeller, you wasn't getting on the radio.But I listened to this guy's show.
09:37And I always had a dream to be an artist.And he was playing new artists.I said, yo, this is crazy.I always kept that in my mind.So when I got arrested while I was hustling and I'm sitting on Rikers Island, I wasn't there long.I was there for like two weeks or so.And as I'm there, I'm realizing that you've got to get permission when you'rewhen to wash your ass.
09:55They can tell you when you call your family.You got to wait for visits.And to me, the only thing beneath that was death.So I said, yo, if this is going to be my future,I don't want this.When I get out of here, I'm going to find that dudewho I heard playing new artists,and I'm going to get on with the music thing.
10:12So I got out and I went in the studio.I recorded seven songs.That really turned you off to the streets like 100%?Yeah.Actually being in there and seeing how dudes was living.Yeah.I said, I already.knew that was my future because coming up in Brooklyn, you know you're going to get locked up
10:28one day. That's not your concern. Your only concern is when I'm there, I got to represent.I can't be no sucker. So that's the mentality that we are taught young. You're going to jail oneday, but when you go there, as long as you represent, you're good, which is ignorant. You know what I'msaying? So I had an ignorant mentality as a youngster, to be honest. And I told myself, I went betterfor myself. So when I get out, I'm going to go meet this duel. So I got out, I went to thestudio, I recorded seven songs. I took a picture. I had a mic in one hand, a gun in the other hand,and I titled Art and War. I titled Art and War. And I started selling them out of the trunkof my car. I was like, yo, this is how I'm going to make money. I'm not going to sell drugs no more.
11:09I'm going to sell CDs. I was standing in front of the car wash. I was standing in front ofthe train station. I would go everywhere. Eventually, as I was selling them, I developed workers.So they would take a profit and give me my money, and we all were selling Papu CD.What a beautiful time.Yeah, it was a beautiful time.So back then, I wasn't computer savvyand I went to the Yellow Pagesand I found the address to Hot 97 in New York.
11:33Right.And it was 395 Hudson never figured the address.And we hopped in the hooptyand we went up there to meet this dudeman named Kay Slay.Uh-huh.And was he a big fan immediately?Or how'd that go?
11:44It was hell.Really?Okay.You know what I'm saying?So I'm just being, you know, me proactiveat this point.I'm like, yo, listen,this dude is on the,
11:53radio every Thursday he starts at 12 midnight so he has to come through this door I'm waited sureenough it comes to this do he got this jewelry he got everything a lot of situations over the yearshappened basically like this I'm thinking about charlemagne getting punched outside the studiobasically the same thing yeah except you had good intentions I mean I don't know nothing about thatbut so I waited for him long story short I had my CD I had my number on the back of the CDI give him my CD he take the CD he go in the building I'm like okay I can't wait I'mexcited now. I finally gave a DJ on the radiomy record. I'm going to hear myself on the radio.
12:27I listened.He on for two hours. He didn't play the record.I'm like, shit. I come backnext week. I do it again.Hey, my name is Papuos. I'm from Brooklyn. Here's myCD. All right. He walks in the building.Same scenario. I don't hear my record.So now I'm getting like, what the fuck?
12:43This guy's not playing my music. He's playing theseother guys. You know what I'm saying?So this time, I said, when Icome give this guy to CD, I'm goingto wait downstairs. And if he don't play it,When he comes down, he's going to have to explain to mewhy he didn't play my music.Right.
12:57So I give him the CD.I'm listening to the show.He's on from 12 midnight to 2 in the morning.It's like 150.I'm like, this dude ain't play this shit yet.So I'm like, fuck it.I know what I'm going to do.I'm going to call up.
13:11I call up.And this was a life-changing moment for mebecause in my sick mind,it made me seem like my dream was possiblebecause he answered the phoneand I'm like, yo, why you ain't playing my song?He stopped going off.Yo, everybody can't be a rapper.
13:33Some people got to be a fireman.You know what I'm saying?He started going off.Live on air?No.Oh, this is private.This is on the, he's on the warm line.We're going on.
13:42But as he's arguing back and forth for mebecause I'm rebuttal and he rebuttal,the commercial break is over.So I hear it come over the air.So I was like, oh shit.I was just.on the radio, you know what I mean?Like, this shit is really possible.
13:56Right.You know what I mean?So I wait for him to come down.He come down.I approach him.I'm hot, he hot.This shit is about to go left at this point.I never heard this story before.
14:05This is amazing.This is how we met, bro.So when I approached him, I'm like, yo,this is a heated moment.A person he was with cutting into the middle.He said, yo, give me the CD, man.I got you.And that promise was, it eased my soul.
14:20I was like, all right, cool.at this timeI had a very close friend of minewho was acting as my managerhe was helping me out try to meet peoplewe were struggling it wasn't workingyou know what I'm sayinghe passed away
14:33I had anothernegative situation that this is just my traumaticlife as a youngster manI had another negative situationyou know what I'm sayingthat Iwas leaving fromafter his
14:49after he passed awayand while I'm in the middle of thatalmost throwing my life awayyou know what I'm sayingmy phone ringsI answer my phone it's Kay Slayhe's like yoI listen to your CD
15:02I got your number off the backyo you're on the radio next weekI'm like wow manyou know what I'm saying so now I go on the radioit's Prodigyand a couple other brothersand we rapping live on Hot 97 manthis was like a dream come true to me
15:18wow and I actually spitalphabetical slaughter that nightWere you ready at that time?Like looking back on it?Yeah.You were ready.You had been practiced.You were well practiced enough to be in this environment.
15:28My confidence level back then was way high it is now.Like I knew in my mind like, oh, it's nothing nobody can say.The kind of confidence you could only have as a young man.As a deal.Like my confidence was like, that never even crossed my mind to be ready.I was just like, oh, it's over.Like my whole crew, it wasn't just, Papoose wasn't one person.That's what people don't understand.
15:52It was the whole Brooklyn, man.That's why when I used to go to shows,I used to be 50 deep.Right.Because everybody already knew,yo, my man, Pap is the truth.I don't give a fuck about nobody else.This kid is, you know what I'm saying?
16:04So it was all our dream.My cousin, you know what I'm saying?We grew up more like brothers.And I'm even sad that he passed awaybefore I could even really reach my peak.But you're right, though,because at that time,it really felt like by us being Papoose fans,
16:19it was you,but it wasn't even just you.It was like, this is the new face of New York City.Yes.Because New York, you know, this is a couple years removed from 50 blowing up, you know, like, and 50'sobviously still huge at that time, but it was like, it was such a breath of fresh air.It was so no bullshit at a time where we were kind of used to listening to everybodymake hits at that time.
16:41It was very much like people were really expected to still do that.And you just came in raw as fucked.It was like, it was just so clear to us that this was like a new, new generation.That's what people didn't understand.The papoose was a movement.You know what I mean?And I had an army behind me that all believed in meand we wasn't taking no for an answer.
17:01You know what I'm saying?And that's how we approached it.We had that mentality.So I think the fact that at every eventor every time they've seen methat was what they saw, it intimidated the industryand it intimidated artists.It intimidated DJs.
17:19It intimidated a lot.of people and it worked more against me than in my field.Really you think? Oh, that's really interesting.That played a major part. Interesting. But so, okay, just I want to ask this, like,what's going through your head? You're sitting next to prodigy. He's been a superstaralready for years and years and years at this point. He's unbelievable lyrically. Like,what was it like just being around these dudes who are on a totally different level than what youwere used to at that point? I was so hungry that
17:50I was just like, it's over.Like my mentality, that's why I even understand, like, certain fighterswhen they go in the ring.I understand that.Like, losing wasn't even crossing my mind back then.I knew that all I needed was an opportunity, and it was over.So I was just like, oh, it's go time.Right.
18:09And so did things just really start going up and up from there?No.Really?It felt good, and it was up for me coming from where I came from.but considering, you know, being in a gameand what needs to be done and what needs to happen, no.Because that's a huge look, but at the end of the day,there's a lot of rappers who've been on a lot of radio shows.
18:29That was an important first step, but it's by no means.Yeah, I mean, for me, like I said,for me, where I come from in my entire circleand everybody who knew I was, we was on level 10.Like, we lit, but I know I had a lot more to doand way more further to go, you know what I'm saying?And people received me where to fan,I would do shows.
18:49It was packed.People would be going crazy.I got a lot of love.But the actual industry, you know,I got a lot of pushback.I always did.It was always uphill for me.Yeah, because, I mean,
18:58and it was a weird time for the music industry as wellbecause they didn't know how to make moneyoff of music at that point.Like, the CD sales were slowing down like crazy.Streaming is like a distant thought of like,well, maybe people will pay money for a digital download at some point.But like 2004, that was not an erathat was really like a friendly time to be a new artist.
19:17Not.Especially an artist who had like a real distinct regional sound to a certain extent, you know?Right.DJ Envy told me that one day.He said, you know, Pat, you came in at the wrong time.He's like, yo, you would have just came in like two years earlier.You know what I'm saying?Or a few years earlier, he was like, yo, you would have been like king of this shit.
19:37He's like when you came in, people just wasn't fucking with New York no more.You know what I'm saying?That's what he told me one day.Yeah, New York's image has had ups and downs.Like there's been times where it seemed like it was almost impossible to break a New York rapper, right?I mean, from my perspective, to me, it looks like the fact that New York created hip hop.Yeah.A lot of people, it seemed like they mad at us for that.
20:02Yeah.They mad at us because we started this shit.Like they're like, oh, y'all started it, but guess what?Nah, we lit.So y'all take the back seat.You know what I'm saying?It's crazy because that's kind of the same for L.A.Like, L.A., like there's a lot of, like, gangster rap and street music that comes from L.A.
20:16that just has a, that is dope as fuck,but it kind of has a hard time finding an audienceoutside of L.A. because it's so distinctly L.A.and New York kind of has that same issue.But I remember when L.A., you know,shit was running the whole game.When you put on RAP City, that's all you've seen.And I loved that era.
20:34That shit was dope.100%.So what do you start doing from thereand how do you eventually, like,end up in the position where a K. Slay wants to sign you?Yeah, well, right then and there,you know, we handled the business.He was like, yo, I want to sign you the street,
20:46Streeters Entertainment.Oh, wow.He only brought me up to give me a shot,but when I rapped on the radio, he said that.He was like, yo, I got to sign this kid.So I signed the streetsweas Entertainment.This is 2004.Now, think about this.
21:00I became the hottest artist in the city in 2004.Like, I started just putting our mixtapes doing shows.Think about it, I didn't get a record deal to 2007.So I was just doing mixtapes and going crazy from 2004 to all way to 07.and I finally got a deal.Right.It was such a different.It's so bizarre to think about that
21:21in terms of what the industry is like nowbecause now it's like if you're a newrapper who seems like you've got sometalent. I mean, people are dying to signartists that have like 5,000 playsbecause they think that he seems like he might besomebody in the future.Like the idea that you would have that hard of a time
21:36getting a label to believe in youis baffling.If you listen to my mixtapes, you'll hear Kay Slate saying it on everyone.Labels, y'all can keep it.ignoring us. Don't worry. We're going to keep working. This shit was going on from 04 to07. Yeah. It was uphill off the rip. You know what I'm saying? And it was a crazytime where you kind of needed to sign in order to take your career to the next level, whichis different now as well. Back then, you needed it. But I, you know, it was a great time for me
22:01to be honest. It was a great time for me because I felt like it was finally happening. Youknow what I'm saying? And it was. I was touring the world. Yeah. Without a deal, I was touringand doing shows and killing shit. It was just amazing time in terms of New York hip-hop in general, too.Everything that was going on in terms of dipset, G-Unit, U, all the shit that was going onon sort of a more underground level with the mixtapes and everything.It was just like a really, a lot of times when I think about why I became such a big hip-hop fan,I'm like, well, when I was 16, Jay and Nas battled, when I'm 1850 comes out.Right.
22:35You know, then Cam comes out.It's like, this is all in like that prime part of my life.And that's not even to say, I was in first grade freaking out about doggy style and shit, you know?So it's like I was born in an amazing time period.You was.You know, I don't know how many kids feel that way these days.Yo, you know, it's interesting that you said that because sometimes, and not all the time,but sometimes I look at, you know, some of the kids and I be like, yo, I feel sorry for y'all, man.
22:58Like, y'all getting cheated.Like you said, we had the Snoop era, you know what I'm saying, the Naz and J era, the Kane and G-Rap.Like, we had so many dope art pop, biggie, you know what I mean?So many legendary artists.who were very intricate and made all kinds of music.And it's like they just have one thing.I feel bad for you guys.Yeah.
23:23But that's one thing that's important to keep in mind.And sometimes it can be kind of hard to believe it,is that, you know, there's some kid who was at Rolling Loud this weekend in New York City.And that music that he loves is just as important to him as all the stuff that we love was to us.And we can kind of look at it and say, like, shit is different.etc. But I mean, there's a lot of, there's still a lot of excitement around rap music,which is hopefully something that we never see fade.Nah, it's definitely, it's definitely, you know, some exciting moments, you know what I mean?
23:57So I can definitely agree with you on that, but back then it was just like,lit at all times, you know what I mean?Undeniable. And it was just like in that area of music, it's like, if there was a big rapper,it was kind of like everybody listened to them. Now it's like, there's so,many rappers that you could very easily be a rap fan and listen to like three rappers fromFlorida and you ain't really even checking for anything going on in the rest of theUnited States but you think of yourself as a rap fan a lot of that has has changed in a waythere's just so many more rappers you know no definitely but you definitely got some
24:29artists now who are dope I mean it makes some great music definitely as a rapperwhat's some stuff that some rappers really like stand out to you is like that's a guywith amazing work workforce and talent right well I'm not evenI'm crazily impressed, you know what I mean, but like I said, some of them, some artists definitely have some dope songs and dope moments.I like, I like some, I like some, I'm gonna. He has some, some records that I liked a lot.Meek, you know what I mean? I can fuck with some of me shit.Little Wayne, you know what I mean?Little Wayne goes crazy.
25:05You know what I mean, man, just a few off top that I could think of.You know what just stood out to me when I was just thinking about it is that you are one of theof the, there's been a lot of talented rappers out of Brooklyn who basically either had a legalsituation or ended up getting killed way before they were done accomplishing what they weremeant to do. And so at the very least, that's one important thing is that you were actuallyable to see your career through because when you look at Brooklyn, man, there's so manypeople that looked like they were about to be huge and it didn't happen for reasons outside oftheir control. Yeah. And that's why, you know, I want young artists to look at it.
25:43that as an example. Don't make those mistakes because it's easy when you're young,you know what I mean, and hot-headed and ambitious. Sometimes that can be steered in the wrong wayand blow everything. But were you somebody who was smart enough to once you started to get thatopportunity, you really took a step back from the streets and really tried to change your life?I tried, but coming from where I came from at the time, I still had that mentality of,okay, if someone is not cooperating or if someone is hating on me that I needed toclash with them.And that was my biggest mistake because you can't mix the street with the industry.
26:18Biggest mistake you can do.But I was so fresh up the street that I had the street mentality and I came into the gamewith, oh, these dudes is hating, he's blocking.If a rapper said something about me back then, I wouldn't go find them.Right.And want to hurt them.Like, it could be a new artist or artists in the game.I didn't care.
26:37Oh, you dissing me?Okay, we got a problem.And that was the wrong mentality.That was ignorant, you know me?Were there any specific situations?that came up that really kind of might have soured the labels to you?It was a bunch, man.To be honest with you, it was a bunch.
26:52But it happened after I got my deal.Before I got it, I felt like it was just hate from other people in the game.They didn't want to see me win.But they really couldn't stop it.So eventually I got the deal.But when I got it, you know, I played a part.And I got to take responsibility.I played a part in my own downfall back then.
27:10But I've matured a lot now.and I look at things differently,and I'm a whole different guy, man.Yeah.You know what I mean?I'm on a straight positive path now.I can tell.I appreciate that.
27:20You know what I'm saying?You know, a lot of the stuff that might have seemed cool as fuck to you when you're a young man now.You just kind of look back in and you're like, I'd be like, what was I thinking?Like, this is the dumbest shit in the world.You know what I mean?And you got to take responsibility for that.Because if you don't take responsibility, that mean you'll do it again.Yeah.
27:36So you have to acknowledge what you did wrong and that way you can move forward.So I acknowledge the dumb shit I did.But in the process of that.I also got to acknowledge that a lot of people hated on me back then and they just didn't want to see me win.You know what I mean?100%.So when you finally end up getting this deal, it was a huge deal was made out of it because it was like he got signed for a million dollars, which we had never even heard that number thrown around.Now still a lot of money for artists to sign for it, but you do hear that or even bigger numbers about certain artists coming out.
28:06What led to that?And were you holding out for a long time because you felt like you wanted to get a lot of money up front?Yeah, at that point, eventually I had developed what they called back then, a bidding war.I don't know if they still have those these days.Oh, yeah.Yeah, we had a mean bidding war going.A bunch of major labels were bidding.And I made another big mistake, which was I went for the most money instead of the best situation.
28:31And, you know, Deft Jan made an offer back then.And a couple of other labels, I can't remember exactly, but Job Records came in at $1.5 million.And we was like, oh, we're going with the most money.it was a predominantly R&B label.You know what I'm saying?And, you know, it was the money.And also at the time, Chris Lattie was the president of the label.Rest in peace.
28:50Yeah, rest of peace to Chris Liddy, great dude.And I was in the process of signing to Violator Management.Right, right.So I was like, yo, it's a no brain.If I'm over here and Chris is the president, it's a good move.As soon as I signed, he left.Yeah.So my project got left in the hands.
29:06Some idiot, you know what I mean?From there, it was, you know,I was fucked manI told the story once beforeback then when I wasdoing my bidding wall I had got a messageI don't remember what device I was using back thenprobably was a sidekick or some shit
29:23some shit I had to flip a screen or whateverbut I got an anonymous message rightand the dude was like your papI'm a big fan of youyou don't know who I ambut I was up at Jive recordsand I'm not going to say this dude namebut this certain individual was in the room
29:38and he was ranting he's very upsetthat they're interested, that they, in the process,assigned you to the label.He was like, he was screaming out,yo, as soon as the single come out,I'm going to get him off the label,and why would they do this and do that?He was like, yo, whatever you do, don't sign the job records.
29:55So it's an anonymous message.I look at it, I go to sleigh, I tell them about it.We're like, we're going to ignore this shit, you know what I'm saying?It was very weird that as soon as my single came out,that shit happened, you know what I mean?Wow.It was weird, but what happened was the owner of the labelactually signed me himself.
30:10So when me and Slay floor after meet him,he was like, you know why I'm signing you?I said, no.He said, the reason why I'm signing youis because my son is a fan of Lulah Berry.Oh, wow.And he signed me to the label.So the people at the label were mad
30:22because I didn't go through them.They couldn't manipulate my budgetand I was doing business with their boss.So they figured if they just didn't cooperate,didn't from my music, didn't help out,eventually I would be fucked.Wow.And that's kind of what happened.
30:34That's crazy.So you and Slay, I'm assuming,were able to actually hold on to the advance.It wasn't the,kind of thing where it was sectioned out where you got it piece by piece as your career goes on?No, we was able to hold on, we left with the money, you know what I'm saying?But I wasn't really happy about that because my career was what I wanted.You know what I mean? I was more ambitious about building a career, not just leaving with a fast buck.
30:56Right. So it was a real sad and down time for me. At the time, my wife blew trial.So I lost my deal. My wife blew trial. So everything was just bad for me at that time.And then I was in a space where, okay, you're off the label, but you still have a name for yourself.You need to work extra right now.And I chose not to work because I felt like my wife needed me, and that was more important.So I just put the music, I was like, forget about music.Let me focus on my wife, you know what I'm saying?Wow, that's so interesting.
31:26So what year did you meet Remy and begin that?Well, I met RIM back then, like, 05.Okay.So at first we was friends, and, you know, it escalated, so it was surely.Right.did you guys hit it off as likerap friends at firstentirely like non-romantic
31:43like you just were kind of likehey like I like that bar you had rightI'm always kind of fast like all right I'mI'm chilling with my girl the other nightand I know my girland I know that if I start watching a rapinterview that she's going to zone out or go in a roomor whatever and I was like
31:59oh shit I'm going to watch these VH1 clipsbecause then you'll stay on the couch with me and watch itbecause if it's about a rapper's relationshipthen she'll usually tunein. So we watched the full hour of the highlights of your whole VH1 experience with Remy and everything.And then it's you guys rapping together. And I'm just looking at it. I'm like, do you imagineme and you're doing this together? Like, I'm just very fascinated by you guys both being like really,you know, and for those who haven't like listened to Remy, she's extremely talented and really,
32:26really good of the job, you know? Yeah, she's a beast. Yeah. Did you guys relate about that inthe beginning or like, how long did it take before you're like flirting with her?Nah, man. How are we first?got together was Kay Slick called me one day.So back then, like I said, I'm fresh off the street.You know what I mean?I had bought my first house around that time though,because I had did good at what I was doing.
32:49And he called me, at this time I was living in Long Island.He called me one day.He was like, yo, I'm going to tell you right now, man.Remedy's like my sister.She like you.He's like, but I'm letting you know.If you're going to deal with her,better be straight up because she's crazy.
33:04I'm like, okay.So he's like, yo, she called me up.And she's like, yo, I want to do a song with your artist.So he's like, yo, he set up the session for me to come do the song with her.I went to the studio.First I went to the barbershop.I got a hair cut.I went and got a new outfit.
33:23You know what I mean?Got the best jewelry.I'm like, Ramey wants to do a song with me?Wow.So I come to the studio and she didn't show up.Oh, Jesus.I'm like, yo, this is crazy.So I'm like, all, cool.
33:34But me and Slay was in the studio all the time.So the next time we was in the studio, she just randomly popped up.And actually, I saw her before that.She came in the studio and she was very rude.Like, she was just like, turn that shit all.And I had never seen nobody talk to Slay like this.She's like, turn that shit down.And you, go over here.
33:54This dude.I'm sitting there.I'm like, yo, this is one minute.I think I like her.Like, you know what I'm saying?But I stayed quiet.I was like, yo, I'm not going to say nothing because she's flipping on everybody in the room.And if she flip on me, like,
34:04this is not going to go good. So I stayed quiet.I've been in a lot of rap studios and I've never seen a woman walk in and turn the musicoff or you know use the rap studio environment is the most broed out male emphasis energypossible. She was like turn that shit off. You go over here. I'm like yo this is crazy.I had never seen nobody talk to sleigh like that but now I understand it it's like a big brothera little sister relationship so he was like real passive. But um that time I didn't say that and I stayedquiet. So later on, speed up.She wants to do a song with you. I come to studio.
34:38She never shows up. She popped uprandomly another time. We did a song calledBonnie and Clyde. And I justflirted with her through my whole verse.Wow. I was just saying little lines and shit.And from there, we exchangednumbers and we just became cool. We used to just chop itup. And she was actually kind of schooling me on
34:54the game because she had been in the game before me.Right. She had had a big hit by that pointand everything. Yeah. And I just thought everything was real.And she was like, no, no. This oneis supposed to see. This one don't do what he said.That's my it's not like you thinkingI'm like what she's like yeah you seeshe seems very
35:09knowledgeable street savvyindustry savvy she's very smarta lot of guys would be intimidated by that thoughoh no I wasn't I loved itI feel like as a rapper you're soused to dealing with girls that are basicallylike subservient like theythey just want to fit in they want to be cool
35:26they want to be down etcand she's got to be like the complete oppositeend of that spectrum where she'sin control as much as possibleShe just like she doesn't mind throwing a tantrum or making a scene if she's not getting what she wants.Yeah, I mean, very independent.She's the type of person, man.If you're straight up and you're real about it, you'll get along with her perfect.
35:46But if you're doing some under the table shit, oh, you're not going to like her because she's going to expose you.Right.You know what I'm saying?So that's just the type of person she is.She's just straight up, bro.Like, trust me when I tell you, it's, you know, it's a great thing.Right, definitely.But so she was already dealing with the legal stuff when you guys.
36:04started seeing each other.No, that didn't happen to around 08, 07, 08.Like I said right around the time where everything started going down for me.It happened like simultaneously.Really?Yeah.And so you just describe your mental state at that time.Like what were you thinking in terms of what you wanted to do with your life?
36:21It's like you've got the rap thing going and then you got this great relationship.But then both of them seem like they're kind of headed on a crash collision.Well, our relationship, you know, started to escalate.We would spend a lot of time just talking.We were friends.We were sitting in a vehicle and talk,and next thing you know,it would be morning again.
36:38Like, that's how our conversations were.And, you know, we decided to get married.So we started planning our wedding on the yacht.You know what I mean?We had paid forward and everything.But at the same time, she had the caseand she was on trial.So I was telling her, like,
36:51you're going to beat the case.Don't worry about it.She was like, no, I'm going to blow trial.I said, nah, you're not going to blow trial.So I said, hey, don't worry about it.If you blow trial, I'm going to be there for you.And she got pissed at me.like because she didn't believe it you know what I'm saying she's like how would you say that
37:07this time and I'm like it's gonna be all right she actually blew trial and um I didn't feel likeshe deserved it you know what I mean they gave her a lot of time because she blew it off saidagain because she didn't show up they gave her a lot more time than she might have got normally noshe showed up she went the trial every day oh right but she blew trial she got found guilty of thecharges oh right so what I'm saying to you is that shedidn't deserve it. Such a great person.You know what I mean? A lot of peoplelied there on her trial. I won't get into that.
37:40But, you know,anyway, she blows trialand I just had tomake sure I supported her, man. I put everythingto the side. At that time, I really didn'tcare about nothing. I knew that she needed me.You know what I mean? She had never been to prison before,so I knew she needed me more
37:55than I needed to be worried about other shit.Right. So I visited her every day.You know what I mean? Around that time, every day.And it was to the pointwhere one time I came to visit her and one of the CEOs, she was like, hey, come here.Very disrespectful, but what they try to do is they try to intimidate you because theydon't like when them inmates get support.Right.
38:16So she's very rude.And for any little thing, they terminate your visit.So I'm humble.I come up to the desk.She's like, why do you keep coming here every day?I say, excuse me?She's like, she's not going nowhere.And I'm like, wow, these people are so disrespectful.
38:29You know what I mean?That's crazy.So that's how much I was visiting her.they was trying to detour me from doing it.But like I said, I knew she needed me at the time.And one of the things about prison is, it's all about separation.You know what I mean?So my goal was not to allow them to separate us,
38:46because without unity, you have no strength.So that comes into divide and conquer.So that's what breaks up the family when you allow that.I wasn't going to allow the prison wall to come in between us.So what I did was I functioned every day like she was still there.Like if something happened in school with one of the kidsor I had to make a decision at the crib.I made sure she was involved in that.
39:06You know what I'm saying?Right.So that was one of the ways we got through it.And then also communication.You know what I mean?When I visited, I couldn't touch her.So all we had was, they'd say, hey, put your hands on the table.You know what I mean?
39:18So all I could do was talk.And through us communicating so much, it built out our bond.Right.So we would take terms speaking.Even if we had a disagreement, I can't speak while she's speaking and vice versa.Interesting.So, you know, all of those things played a part, and it helped us get through it.Yeah.
39:35But, I mean, how hard was it to watch her go down for six and a half years?Like, I mean, that must have been, would you say that was one of your greatest challenges as a man throughout your life?Yeah.You know why?Because I watched her suffer.Like, I would keep myself together.I never showed no weakness, but it was times I went home and I just punched the walls.Right.
39:55Because I couldn't do nothing to get her out of there.It was nothing I could do.And all you want to be able to do is be able to protect your woman.Yeah, and all I could do was visit her.You know what I mean?And send her packages, speak to her on the phone, things of that nature.But I knew she needed me at that time, so I really didn't give a fuck about nothing else.I just tried to make sure she was good.
40:16Right.Definitely.Yeah, because I've seen, like, in a couple things in the love and hip-hop thing, that that was kind of like a real conversation that you guys were having,where you felt almost like you were in prison to a certain extent as well, because you couldn't just,separate yourself from her situation.Like, you know, it feels like you guys formed such a bondthat you couldn't just walk away, like a lot of dudes probably would.Nah, I couldn't, man.
40:41It's like a lot of people ask me about that,but the best way I can explain it is, like,you see a fucking tornado going around and it hit somebody else,and you're like, wow, that's fucked up.Yeah.But it hit home.So it was either you're going to pick up the piecesor you're going to run and leave everything fucked up.
40:58I just chose to pick up the pieces, man.And I was just like, yo, she don't deserve this, you know what I mean?And I got to make sure I'm here for, man.You know what I mean?And that's what I did.Right.So in terms of focus on your own career, did it take a while before you were able to really, like, start rapping, like, your old self again?Or did that whole thing kind of fuck you up in the head?
41:18I put it to the side.I put it to the side for a while.And she used to tell me, like, yo, you need to focus on your career.Like, you don't need to, like, don't worry about me so much.And I was like, nah, I got to worry.I got to make sure you're good.and I put the music to the side for a long time.Then eventually I started back here and there,
41:35but I never really got focused again, honestly, until she came home.Right.That's interesting because, you know, even just listening to, like, your newest stuff,like you have a record out with Wayne right now that's, like, really crazy.Like, when I put that shit on, I was just like,the world, I don't think, ever accepted you for being as good as you really are.Like, even to this day, like, I'm talking about having that sort of infatuation with your music.at that point. But like when I was just watching that Wayne video, I'm like, man, dude hasn't skipped a beat.
42:04Like, you're still unbelievable lyrically.Thank you. Thank you. It's almost a shame that you hung it up for a period of time because I'm sure that the music you would have put out during that era would have been pretty far.Yeah, man. It's crazy you said that because I was just talking to my driver and he was saying something like that.Like, you know, I know you was nice, but I didn't know you can make records.And I was trying to explain to him like, yo, bro, I always had the ability to make those records.I just wasn't given the opportunity.You know what I mean?The opportunity presented itself
42:32and now I'm kind of able to show the world.Like, yo, I really can make these kind of recordsthat y'all can love and, you know what I mean?Have fun to as opposed to, you know, the other stuff.Yeah.How much thought do you put into like kind of evolving your sound over time?Because that's one thing I've heard listening to some of the newer stuffis like I can feel how you're sort of embracing some of the patterns
42:54and the flows that exist these dayswhile also adding your own style to it.And that's like kind of a tricky thingto thread the needle on,like messing with certain flowsthat the younger generation useswhile still staying true to yourself.Yeah, you definitely got to be able to do that.
43:11You know, like you said,while maintaining who you are.Never sell your soul, but don't be so pig-headedto think, hey, F this new stuff.I'm just going to do the old thing.You know, nah, you can't do thatbecause that's inconsiderate to everybodywho loves what's going on now.
43:27So I adapt to it and I put my own spin on it at the same time.To answer your question, yes, it's been challenging, but I've been able to do it.Over time, I learned so much, man.To be honest, I've learned, you know, it's a marriage as far as between the music and the lyrics.Like, I was just so gun-ho on my lyrics, I was like, that's all I needed.But now I've learned more.So you see me working with better producers now, like Timber.and Swiss beats.
43:59And working with these guys, I've learned so much, man.It's a complete marriage.So that's why my music has been sounding a lot better nowbecause I've been able to growand not be so young and stubbornand think you know it all.When you're young, you think you know it all.And, you know, when you think you know it all,
44:16you stop learning.So I've been able to mature and grow in those waysand it's been paying all for me.There is a big chunk of me, though,that when I'm listening to you say that,a big part of why we love your shitearly on was just because it was so lyrical and so violent, so aggressive, so brutalin your face, and so like not compromising, you know?
44:37Like it was just, there wasn't like the girly, yeah, song on the end of the mixtape.It was pretty much straight through.Let me tell you some.You know, I hate to say this, man, but yo, I just went and work with me, man.It was great for my core fans, but as far as me growing and, you know, really reaching my fullpotential, that kind of played a part too because artists were intimidated, like,yo, I'm doing a record with this dude. He's going to try to kill me on the record. You know what I mean?So I had to really like tone it down a little bit in that aspect so guys could be more comfortable
45:09to work with me, you know what I'm saying? Right. That was another thing I kind of learned.And not to take nothing away from nobody, you know what I mean? Right. But it's like duringthat time period, you were so used to, you know, you have somebody like fabulous coming out in NewYork City and he's wrapping his ass off on these mixtapes. But he very quickly,like adapted to how to make records for girls, how to make records for the radio, etc.But in a way, I think it was pretty cool that you didn't really go down that road so muchbecause that's kind of how it is now.You have a rapper like, Who Shisty comes out?
45:39He's a street rapper.Like, nobody wants to hear him rapping about girls.He don't even really consider going down that route.Well, let me say this also because I don't want people to get dismissed and screw.The lyricists can make records.Right.But the masses don't want to accept it from them.Because if those guys are able to make records and be successful at making records, a lot of people won't have jobs.
46:01So they have to immediately shun them.Like, oh, he can't make a record.Yeah, he's an incredible lyricist, but he can't make a record.So they want to do that fast.So you have to be very careful, very mindful, and be able to adapt just to fool them a little bit so they can feel comfortable letting you in.Because they're already intimidated by you off the rip when you're a lyricist.Like, believe it or not, people think you only get hate because of materialism.No, people hate on talent.
46:25When you're a talented motherfucker,people are afraid of that shit, bro.They're like off the rip.They don't even hear you make a record yet.He can't make a record.They don't even want to get a guy a chance.In reality, lyricists can do that shit.You know what I'm saying?
46:39But they get a hard time with it.So you have to adapt.I'm not saying you don't.You have to adapt and switch it up a little bitbecause the deck is stacked against you as the lyricist.definitely you were accused at one point of sneaking a key into the jail oh man the biggest bullshit everso that wasn't because as i thought about it i was like i mean he seems like a smart guy thatdoesn't really sound like something that would really happen the biggest bullshit ever i'll tell you
47:12the story because what what's the key going to do right you get out of one cell it was the mostridiculous story i know it's a different key for all the other doors you know like it was the mostridiculous story ever, man. But I'll tell youwhat happened. Okay. So,this is around the time with my wife blew trial. Remember,I told you earlier, we had a wedding plan.Right. Book the yacht, everything. She blewtrial, we lost all of that. Wedding canceled.
47:34So we said, okay, we're going to have toget married while you're in prison. Right.So you're able to have a ceremonyon Regis Island at this time. Okay.Myself, my mother-in-law, and mymother. Three of us, we cometo the facility, the wedding is set up.We come in, so I got
47:49my key chain. You know how you have like a skeleton key on yourkey chain? Yeah. Bush is skeleton key. So when you go to, I don't know if you ever visitanybody in prison, probably not. Sadly haven't. Right. So when you come, you got to, it's likeyou're going into, nowadays it's got metal detectors everywhere. So it's a metal detector.Right. You go, you put your phone in there. You put your keys in the tray. The guy says,hey, I pick some of my key. Hey, you can't have this in here. I'm like, all right, no problem.He like, when we throw in the garbage, I say, yeah, go ahead. He drops it in the garbage can.It's a process. So myself, the three of us, they let us do. We get on the bus. And we get on the bus.
48:21go over to the facility so now Remy has to come out and we do the wedding ceremony.They say, hey, the wedding is canceled and they throw me in a cell.What?Yes, a fucking skeleton key, bro.Just because of that.And they didn't even have any evidence that this skeleton key might.This how you know it was bullshit.I would have been arrested if I did some shit like that.
48:42Right.They threw me in a bullshit holding cell for like two hours.Then they say, all right, you can go.When I leave, I get off the bus to go back to my car.It's fucking paparazzi.is news channelsand I'm likewhat the fuck is this?
48:55Right.Next thing I know I get back homeor the next dayI fucking open the newspaperPapoose tries to break Remy outin prison.I'm like you gotta be fucking kidding me.Right.
49:06I come here with my motherand my mother-in-law to break somebodyin prison with a fucking skeleton.So much of this makes so little sense to methe more I started thinking about, yeah.You know, when Sean Bell was shotin New York 50 times by the policeI made a song called 50 shots
49:22I marched away out shopped in 50 blocksI did so much charitable thingsyou know what I'm sayinga congressman by the name of Major Owenstook a liking to me earlyI would speak out against all injusticeso they hated methey used that shit as a moment to just
49:37kill me in the papers after that I shot a music videoa guy brought an ambulance truck that we could usein the videothe next thing you know in the papersPapooseKahn's ambulance driver to useambulance truck for negative rap video.I'm like, what the fuck?
49:52What?Like, they would find a reasonto put me in the papersand destroy me.Wow.And it kind of,you know,it made me look at things
50:01a little differentbecause I stood upand I spoke for so many people.But at that time,I needed some peopleto speak up for meabout how they was just slanderingme in the media
50:09for no reason.And nobody, nobody did it.But also,it'll make you never believeanother story that you're reading the news again.Oh, right.Oh, yes.You'll always think in the back of your head,
50:17well,maybe this shit is just completely taken out of contextbecause I know what they're willing to doto get a story.They would kill me in the media back then.Around the time when my wife flew,they would kill me, they would kill us.Like, forget about it, you know what I mean?
50:30It was crazy.That's so crazy.I feel like that's somethingthat the media has in commonwith the love and hip-hop producerswhere it's like sometimes it feels likethey're kind of,they're trying to sort of throw you
50:40under the bus for content.Well, I haven't had that experience on there,to be honest.Other people did, I can't disagree with you.Other people,100%. I just felt like I saw like little things that I was like, man, you got to show them a littlemore respect to you. Yeah, me, me, I didn't have a bad experience. I've made more money ontelevision than I haven't made in music. And I was able to show the positive side, you know what I'm
51:06my people and how we live through television. I can't lie. I expected to get clown when I did it.You know what I mean? When I really let them put a camera into my life and show how we was livingand people loved it.I guess people was tired of seeing us being made a full of on television.Right.Yeah, and I mean, it's just, I think people like seeing that example of this is what two grown-ass people getting togetherand building something bigger than themselves is.Like, this is what it really looks like on camera because a lot of times, like, in the media and on TV and stuff,
51:39they don't really want to show that of a rapper.They want to show a rapper in his crazy-ass stage of his life where he's getting into it.the beast with people and shit like that.The part of his life where he actually built something bigger than himself with a woman is.And guess what?I was very proud of that because before that, like you said, they didn't want to show the rappersand rappers didn't want to show them themselves.I feel like not to chew my own horn, but beep, beep, after me and my wife showed black love
52:06love on the screen.You see so many rappers and artists aren't afraid to hold their ladies' hand in public to show lovetheir significant other.It's cool now.And you know they fake relationships for Shadra and shit now, too.Academics was telling me the other day about how much of that is going on.And I was like, what the fuck?You know what the saddest part?
52:26It don't last, man.It don't last.I mean, we, rap music is a weird-ass game.When you have people faking beef slash aggravating beats to get attention to eventually stream more.Or even faking relationships to just down the road stream more.I'm like, this is some weird shit, right?It is, it is, man.You know, but on a positive note, we was able to influence,
52:50I feel like we played a major part and, you know, the whole couple's thing.Yeah, 100%.That is a good thing.I think that's the internet, too, in general,is that the internet makes it easier and more pleasurable to see real life.Right.It's like, that whole thing of, like, the fantasy of, like, a rapper, you know, being 45 andstill single and still living like he's an 18-year-old.
53:11It's like, it's not really cool at the end of the day.And if it's a lie, that's, wow.It's whack, too. It's whack, man. It's so whack. You know what I mean? Like, it was just a false, a falsenarrative that they was putting out there. Everybody had to seem available. Right. You know what I mean? Andthat's not the truth, man. You know, you have a, you know, money over bitches. Like, you got a mother,my man. You have a daughter. You know, I always say, treat your lady how you want somebody totreat your daughter. Sometimes, I think we take it for granted how much shit has changed inhip-hop and I was thinking about that when I was watching it might have been the nothing but a G-thing
53:47video or whatever where there's a there's a skit where basically a girl who's at the partyyou get sprayed with a bunch of bottles of champagne by everybody and like the whole joke is basicallythat everybody's just like laughing at this dumb girl who got owned by all these guys and I wasjust thinking I'm like man this shit seems so whack to me as an adult and it's pretty crazy thatwe don't even think about the fact that shit has changed so much you knowIt's changed a lot, man.And, you know, I'm glad to change for the better in that aspect because, come on now,we got to do better.
54:19Yeah, 100%.Especially with people with kids and stuff.It's like, how long can you pretend to have no moral compass?Right, exactly.Some people, I guess they need that, like you said, to stream or to seem relevant.You know, I respect the artists that don't need that, you know, no gimmicks.I like, well, so when did you come up with the idea for the black love brand?Because I feel like that is a kind of genius move on your part that, A, you're building up the value of this brand through wearing the stuff on the show.
54:49And then also that it's kind of like a constant reminder that I think that you guys doing the show together is important because it shows what people having a serious relationship like this is and what it really looks like.I feel like you wearing the house kind of like a brilliant move on a part.Yeah, the whole thing happened by default, to be honest with you, man.I kind of wish it was a thugcation happened.You know, it is what it is, bro.You know, it's crazy.It happened naturally, man, I swear to you.And that's part of the reason why I think people fell in love with,
55:19I think they know when it's fake.But I think part of the reason why they fell in love with our storyand our relationship was because they seen it on their own.We didn't try to force it or put it out there.You know, one time when my wife was locked up,I had the interview with double Excel.And they was like, hey, we want to come follow you for the date.I was like, well, I'm going to go shopping, food shopping to get my wife some food.
55:38them, okay, we're going to come film it.And they actually filmed me with like this big grocery bags and shit.And when that article came out, people started to see and they kind of fell in love withthe story.They started to follow it.So love and hip hop started reaching out.And they was like, hey, we want you on the show.And we was like, no, they throw drinks on each other on the show.
55:54Yeah, right.If somebody throw a drink on one of us, it's going to be a problem.So we said no.But eventually when my wife came home, we decided to do it.And black love was just my way of life.People just didn't know it.They just knew Papoose to rap.and Remy walk around the metal detectors.
56:10They didn't know that we was actually in a relationship,a marriage, have children,and we really live in a civilized home.You just reminded me how hard that bar was.And I walk around.You walk around the metal detectors.Right, right.So black love was actually our way of life,
56:26and I was just wearing it because that was what I represented.It's so like you get a tattoo.Yeah.It represents me.So I put it on a hat, and I was wearing it,and everybody was like, yo, how can I get one?I was like, oh, shit, okay.Maybe I need to be selling these things.
56:37Yeah.So that's how it came.For sure.But you've been selling a lot of that stuff?Or do you feel like the fan base has come along with it for show?Yeah, they actually did really good, to be honest with you.You know what I mean?People embraced it.
56:49And, you know, yeah.100%.Okay.This is a question I have.How did the, there was this legendary Fat Joe issue that you had at a certain point,which I know you guys are on good terms now and everything.How the fuck did that happen while you were dating his artist?Well, Fat Joe is my brother, you know what I'm saying?
57:11So you were cool before this.This was like a brief period where you weren't cool.I'm going to tell you this.He's my brother.You know what I mean?He's my daughter's godfather.You know what I'm saying?So I really can't, I don't even really want to speak upon that.
57:23I can just say he's a great person, man.I love him.And that's my brother.Was that the type of situation that sort of made it so that the industry was less interestedyou in working with you as an artist at a certain point?Was that one of the situations you were alluding to?Nah, no, no.Fadjo's my brother, great guy.
57:40I love him.That's how I can say, man.You know what I mean?I don't speak on that, you know what?Respect, for sure.What about the Uncle Murder one?Can we do that?Nah.
57:50Nah, man.Okay.Nah, man.Shout out to him, man.That's that growth.Yeah, yeah, definitely, man.Shout out to him.I wish him the best, man.
57:58I don't got nothing negative to say about nobody.One thing that kind of occurred to me this weekend,because I saw your wife at the rap battle up front,she took a i think she's the only person was security thereb she took a folding chair up front so she didn't have to stand up whichwas a brilliant move that nobody else had the balls to do that but she just did it and i'mlike everybody in here wishes that they did that what hey look the security is did to protectpeople from her by all means not the other way around because guess what people provoke you
58:26yeah see we learned this from experience people provoke you and then when you react to thebullshit they do they want to sue you and the TMZ articleabout you. The CMG articles made you look like a hothead. So those people are just there to protectpeople from getting themselves hurt. So they don't get a lawsuit. Definitely. But it occurred to mein that environment because they had Cassidy and Freeway come out and announced that they were goingto do an official battle, which I think is amazing for hip-hop overall battle-rap culture in general,like just bringing that back, reminding everybody of how intense that lyrical battle was back inthe day. Shout out to them. And so meanwhile, I'm watching the,
59:05do this announcement and Remy's sitting right there watching and I just thought, hey,Papoose would be such a no-brainer to kill it in that environment.I don't know if you thought about it or would you ever be tempted to battle?There's a stigma associated with it, but I swear the stigma got to go away at some point.What you mean when you say stigma?It's just not maybe looked at as the coolest thing.It's maybe looked at as like kind of a lyrical nerd type thing to be involved with.You know, I understand that.
59:35But, I mean, you could clearly, I'm sure you could handle yourself in that environment.I love battle rap, man.Let me say that first.Those guys are gladiators.And I salute all of them.High salute.They know that.I go to the events and I tell them when I see them, yo, you dope, you dope.
59:49You know what I mean?I give respect and I give props.I came up doing that, man.Like I was telling you earlier, I used to do that shit and I was so little, man.I used to do it a lot.And then when I came and became a recording artist, I kind of felt like,I grew, you know what I'm saying?I made it here.
01:00:08You never know, man, what the future holds.You know what I don't even want to, you know,normally I say, nah, I'm cool,because I'm such a fan of it.I just enjoy watching it.You know what I mean?If it's the right offer, you never know.It's getting more mainstream, man.
01:00:23Drake's birthday party was that event.They got to make it really worth it for me, man.Like, you know what I mean?And you never know.They're throwing around some pretty big bags,but I don't know if they're papoose, but, you know.I mean, if it's a Cassidy bag or a freeway bag,I'm sure that they're not trying to do it for the low-l-lop.
01:00:38Those are legends.Those are legends.You got a great point.You never know what the future holds, man.Yeah.I won't shut it down.100%.I mean, you have talked about potentially retiring.
01:00:49Like, that's kind of been out there in the news and everything like that.What is that that stands out to you that maybe you don't want to keep doing this forever?Basically, I want to focus on my investments.I want to focus on my family more.And I gave a lot of years of my life.life to music. So this year, when the year started, I said, you know what? I'm going torelease an EP every month this year titled after the current month. Wow. And by the grace of God,I was able to do that. I got 10 EPs out this year so far. And I wanted to do that. Part of the
01:01:19reason was to say thank you to all the fans who supported me over the years. And my plan was,yo, I'm going to do it every month, every EP all the way up to December, and then I'm goingto retire. That's it for me. And so many people have been on my head about it. Buster called me the otherday he's like you're not retiring I'm not letting you retire you know what I'm sayingso many people was like you can't do it but that's what I want to do and that'sthat's my plan that was my plan in the beginning do you feel like if you retiredthat it would kind of close the door on that chapter your life and let you focus onall this stuff you have going now more I'm gonna tell you what it is when you're so
01:01:50passionate about something the way I am about music it becomes you you know Imean throughout my life it was always all right pap you know me he he's talented with musicThis is this crap.He loved it.This is what I do.And it became me when I was in the street.I mean, when I went legit and started getting into real estate and doing great things,music was still always a part of me and my true passion.
01:02:16So I truly, in a way, I don't know who I am outside of this.So I kind of want to close that chapter of my life so I can explore new things.Focus on my family more.I got a two-year-old daughter.She's amazing, the most beautiful thing that ever happened to me.And, you know, I have other children.How hard you guys went in terms of how important it was for you guys to have a child was a very, I have an 11-month-old right now.That just really warmed my heart to see that you guys both cared so much about doing that, even though it was so difficult.
01:02:43It was uphill, you know, miscarriages, you know, the prison thing.There was so many things that got in our way.And finally, we got my daughter.And I just want to make sure I give her as much of me as possible.I have other children, and they tell you, I'm a great father.but I was alwaysgrinding and chasing thingsnow I'm in a more comfortable space of my life
01:03:06and I just want to enjoy life with my daughterI don't want to be chasing a music careerthroughout her life, you know?Right.I don't want to be doing that andyou know, so it's in my plans, man.A lot of people telling me don't do itbut it's been a part of my plan, right?
01:03:20And you know what's crazy?Also, I said, yo, to be honest,also I said to myself, I saidif I don't get the respectI feel I deserve by the end of this yearof me dropping the EP every monthit's even more reason for me to leavebut now I've had so much success
01:03:35it's crazy rightI had so much successI'm talking about Timber and Swiss beatsyou know what I'm saying I've been able to work withso many legendslittle Wayne you know what I mean the list goes onyeah me and Fab just did a jointyou know I mean
01:03:48me and Fab just shout to himAnthony Hamiltonand in all these recordsthe Wayne record is taking off crazy.So now that I'm in retirement is in my plan,here comes the success, you know what I mean,that I've been looking for.But I don't know.
01:04:03Yeah.It's crazy.Yeah, because I mean, on one hand, if you were to kind of shut the door on it,well, one thing I was going to ask is,did you kind of like start to think more about thatof maybe it would be more enjoyable to be behind the scenesin terms of working on the music industrybecause you were sort of involved with Remy's career for a long time?
01:04:22And you're helping her.and make the right moves and make the right decisions,but then at the end of the day,you're not the one getting out there on stageand having to really be the star of the show.I wore the management hat for my wife for a while,and I learned a lot doing that.So like you said, you're genius.
01:04:37I was like, yo, I can do a lot more, you know,from behind the scenes.I can push some artists.I can do some ghostwriting.You know what I mean?There's a lot of things I can dowhere I don't have to really dedicate so much of my time.Right.
01:04:50So you've done the ghostwriting thing.That's interesting.I didn't know that.It's something I want to go.get into very heavy I want to very interesting I just got reminded of this but have you everseen the the meme that said that Papoose is a legend because he is the first dude to ever geta shape up and a fitted we could put it on the screen I don't know if they edited the photo orwhatever but it's just you getting a shape up and you got a hat on do you remember that photo
01:05:18where it came from or anything yeah I was in Long Island wowhappened around, they used to troll me a lot back then, period.Memes in general, that was such an early,so what happened was we were shooting the videoand I got a head cut.Okay. So you know, you get the hair cutand you're about to lead, you put on your hat.Right. You know what I'm saying?
01:05:40So the dude's like, oh wait, wait a minute, I forgot something.You understand?So in the process of him doing that, they took the picture.Papoose was born with a fitted.Yeah, silly, silly.But yeah, nah, the haircut was just.over man, dude with the tight and somethingup on the way out. Somebody took the
01:05:58picture, so they was like, so aroundthe time they used to troll me a lot.Right. So somebody that was with me was like,oh, I'm going to post it.And somebody was like, nah, I said, yeah, yeah, get ahead.Let them troll me. You know what I mean?I told them, I said, get ahead.Yeah.
01:06:12And sure enough, here we are10 years later.I love it, though. I love the memes,man, hilarious.That is a fucking hilarious one.Even though it's pretty obvious that's not what's goingon in the picture, but it's just like...Nah, the hair cut was over, I put the hat on, I was about to leave.
01:06:29The guy with the tight and stuff up, snap.Yeah, 100%.Classic.Okay, so at this point in your life, like, could you really see yourself?Like, are you trying to, like, live a life where you have rapping as, like, you know,a good side hustle slash passion and then really, like, focus mostly on the other side of yourlife?Do you think that you can kind of, like, compartmentalize, rap into?
01:06:54a smaller role in your life?Or do you feel like you're addicted personality enoughthat you're just inevitably going to end up going hard?I hope not, man.I really want to hang it up and just go on with my life,focus on my investments and my family.Like I said, it's a lot pulling me back.I didn't know I was going to have a big record
01:07:11with Little Wayne by the end of the year.You know what I'm saying?I didn't know all this beats from Timberlin.The list goes on.I didn't, Jermaine DePree.You know, I didn't know Nellie.I didn't know all this was going to happen.You know what I mean?
01:07:23So, you know, I'm still thinking it over, but it's definitely more, I'm leaning more towardsthe retirement.Did you and Wayne have a relationship back in the day, or how did that song come together?No, we actually didn't.When he was locked up on record Salon, MacMaine had called Kay Slay.He was like, yo, Wayne really, you know, he really likes Pat, man.You know, he want to work with him.So I was like, oh, shit.
01:07:48Slay had called me and told me, and I tried to visit him on Rackett Island, but it didn't work out.I wasn't able to get in.You know what I mean?But I actually tried to go visit him.Because I wanted to talk to him when Mac made that call.I couldn't really get in the conversation with Mackto find out what was going on with that.Because he was like, yo, Wayne is a big fan of Pat.
01:08:05He wants to work with him.So I said, all right here and right, just let me go talk to him.That didn't work out.So that was it.That was it.I had met him one other time.But just recently, me, you know, doing these EPs every month,I just reached out to him.
01:08:20And he responded quick, man.And I got a lot of respect for Wayne.because he did everything he said he was going to do,and that's very rare in this industry.Not only did he do the record,he said he was going to do the video,and he did the video,when he said he was going to do the video.
01:08:35100% of man of his world,and I just respect that.And then when you meet somebody,you get to really feel of energy,so I can just tell, like,it's a solid individual, man.Yeah.So we talk all the time here and there,
01:08:46you know what I'm saying,and chop it up, man.It seems like the kind of personwho's just, like, permanently focused onrapping too. You think so? He had such a hard time like turning it off like I just hear about himrecording crazy ass amounts of music and he just you know he just seems like such a natural even I wastalking to a girl that he signed yesterday and she was talking about just getting in the studio with him andhow he just goes off without you know any hesitation no preparation she just made it sound like
01:09:13definitely one of the goats you know what I'm saying when when I thought you know nobody from no otherregion can rap that good when he was one of the guys.I said I heard him.I was like, oh, shit.I might need to rethink this.You know what I mean?Goes in, goes ape shit on the mic.Definitely.
01:09:31Shout on Wayne.We are on the West Coast right now.So I would be in error if I didn't ask,are you and Kendrick on good terms at this point?Shout out to Kendrick.I haven't seen him in a long time.Shout out to Kendrick.Okay.
01:09:47That's what I can say, man.That was a pretty funny beef in retrospect to look back on.That's pretty crazy.But he said, okay, like, he said that you helped him out super early in his career.What was that in reference to exactly?This is way before you had any kind of issue.Yeah, definitely.They came to New York, and I took them on a tour through Brooklyn.
01:10:08I took them to all the neighborhoods, all of the huds in Brooklyn.Just showed them around for the whole day.Yo, this is best style.Yo, this is Brownsville.This is where I grew up at.Hung out, showed him love.I had a show in Long Island.I actually brought him out on my show, introduced them, and let him perform.
01:10:25He killed it.Right.You know what I mean?So I'm actually happy to see the success that he was able to make.Right.Coming from that, he was just like an upcoming artist at the time.Right.So I helped him out by bringing them out on stage and letting him shine, you know what I mean,
01:10:37and showing him through my hood.And then he ended up returning the favor years and years later.What was that actually, was that summer jam?Yeah, it was a big mix up and confusion with that.You know what I mean?I really don't want to go backwards, man.I just want to say, man.Shout out the Kendrick, man, and much success to him.
01:10:54Fair enough.For sure.People, they can look it up if they want to see what happened.It's a little lyrical back and forth.Yeah, it was what it was, man.For sure.Again, I wanted to discuss this topic, too, is that, you know, you're coming out of Brooklyn.Brooklyn, we've seen a big uptick in terms of, like, New York City rap popularity over the past
01:11:12couple years, but a lot of it is very, very street associated, even more so than, like,from your generation coming up, it was like, I'm sure you guys had all kinds ofdifferent shit going on in the streets, but it didn't usually make it into the music.These days with the drill shit and everything, it's like the street aspect of it is almost likeit doesn't even really exist without all that street shit.Observing that, what do you think of it?And what would your advice be to any of these rappers who maybe are getting a lot of attention,but a lot of it is sort of built upon violence and issues with other people in the city?
01:11:46Yeah, very confusing to me.It took me a long time to even get used to that.Because I'm going to be honest with you, you know, back then when we had beef, you know, what you seen on the mic, it was nothing compared to what was going on.Like, we was warring behind the scenes.But you know what?We kept that off the record.We kept that off the cameras.Like, it was, you was a clown for that.
01:12:10Right.You know what I mean?You was more real and respected if you kept that away from the limelight.Right.These guys are rushing to the lamelight with this shit first.you know, as you can see, it doesn't end well.You got these indictments, these huge indictments coming up.And I would advise these guys, man,
01:12:28that, you know, don't move like that, man.Very foolish.You're setting yourself up.Some of these guys have promising careers ahead of them,and they're throwing it away by trying to prove something to the Internet,to social media.I don't think they realize the police also have an Instagram and a Twitter page and all that shit.So when you're showing guns.
01:12:48You know what I mean?Even before social media was so huge,New York City cops were all over what was going on online,MySpace, music videos, etc.Forget about it.A lot of places are, the cops are more lenientwhere I don't feel like the cops are on social mediaas tough in L.A.
01:13:02I don't hear about people getting wrapped upbecause of that stuff so often.But New York City, they want you locked upif you're flexing guns or drugs on social media, anything like that.But they're doing the job for police.The police don't even have to work as hard no more.All the thing you got to do is look on social mediaand everything is there.
01:13:19Back then, it was an investigative.they didn't really know.You know, the hip hop cops hated me back then.Yeah.You know what I mean? But, you know, I'm a great guy now.You know what I mean? I changed my life.But these guys, you know, they got to do better, man.You're making it very much easy.
01:13:34Like if you go into a, when I knew everything changed,when I was a little younger, I went into the precinct.I mean, I got arrested or whatever.And I went to the prison, everybody in the prison had a laptop.Mm.It was just, I was like, this shit is crazy.It wasn't like that before.Right. So then watching that shit.
01:13:53100%.And hey, if I was a cop and I wanted to apprehend people for crimes,I would probably be looking online because it's like you're going to find so much more information than what?I'm going to get a wire tab.Like the old school way of doing it, you're going to sit outside in a van and listen to something.No, you're going to fucking get a subpoena for their Instagram DMs.And then you're going to go figure out whatever fuck shit they're into because apparently most people don't havethe self-control to keep that shit off of their iPhone.
01:14:19They rush to show it on there.You're hanging yourself, man.You got a promising career ahead.You focus on it.Don't mix the street with the industry with the street.Bad combination.Yeah, I said to Hellrell the other daywhen I had him and JR and everybody on here,
01:14:34I said all those years are listening to Dipset.And Dipset were, you know,one of the premier gangster rap groups in New York City.I never one time heard y'all talk about who you were beeping withor who you had issues with besides a couple timeswhere it was another rapper.You had issues with Daaz, you're talking about Nas,but you're not talking about the guy down the street.
01:14:52Now they talk about the guy down the street.Right.The goal was to keep that shit out of the limelight.Keep it in the street.That was our slogan back then.You know what I mean?And we lived by it.I'm not proud of that neither now.
01:15:06But I'm saying that's how we moved back then.You know what I mean?100%.Are you on the lookout for new talent?Is that something you'd really like to pursueof having a rapper under your win?Absolutely, man.My brother, Manson, you know what I mean?
01:15:21Downtown, E.W, the producer.All the new people that I'm working under me.And also, I got some other real young artiststhat I'm working with, too.Y'all going to here real soon.That's amazing.Definitely, man.I can't wait to get into that.
01:15:33When's Remney going to put music out?She hasn't put a project out since 2017, I was seeing.She has a new music video out a couple weeks ago.Yeah, you know what it is.Remy's so rich that she doesn't, like,she's just, she's so rich, man,that she doesn't even.She doesn't go that.
01:15:50You know what I mean?She's not like a starving artist.You know what I mean?She has so much money, man.Is she loving mom life too?Yes, that too.And, you know, she just did a movie.You know what I call it Big 50.
01:16:01You got to go check that out.She just, I don't know if she let this out yet,but she just scored another movie role.Wow.And she's like the leading star.And the one she just did.And this one right here, I'm not sure if she's leading star,but she just scored another big movie role.
01:16:14So like I was saying to you earlier,she's so rich, man,that she just does music when she feels like it.And for a guy like me who's so passionate, I'm sitting and watching this shit, and I'm like, wow.Right, because me going back through her YouTube and just being reminded of how crazy her career was going a few years ago, you know, that just doesn't really happen that often.Like, for, you know, it's hard to blow women up in the rap game.It's hard for someone to go away for six years and come back and have people still care.And she was just, you know, just to have them success that late in their life, pretty amazing.
01:16:47a lot of successand I'm telling you it's so naturalbrolike it's so effortlesslyyou would be sitting there likewhat the fuckright like she'd just write a versewhen she feel like
01:16:58and it'd be the most craziest verseyou'd be likeyou're seriousrightI mean soshe definitely has a projectready to go but when she's goingto put it out
01:17:09I don't know manlike I said she's getting the moneyfrom a lot of other placesdo you guys ever just hop in the studioand make a song togetherjust for fun or is that a little tooit feelstoo serious. You can't just do it for fun.
01:17:19Nah, nah. She's more of a commercial side or more of the other side.You know what I mean? We totally disagree on music.Really?We have opposite opinions on music. We don't agree at all. Her top five is ridiculous.I don't even want to ask.Her top five. I was sitting in like, come, boy. You kidding me?Wow.I told her one time when she told me your top five, I was like, yo pun is rolling over it is great right now.
01:17:44But that's her, man. You know what I mean?If a beat comes on and you guys are in the car together,are you going to kind of start tossing lines back and forth each other now?I just love the idea of being a rapperand being in a relationship with another rapperso you can kind of just do rap things together.I mean, we've done stuff like that before.People have seen us on the BT Awards and shit like that.
01:18:05But does it ever happen in the crib?Nah, probably playing around.We just be playing bullshit.Like, dead serious?No.We're just joking and shit, yeah, maybe.That's good to know.Yeah, man.
01:18:16you want to tell the people about, anything that they should keep an eye out for?Hey, listen, Pat Poo's featuring a little Wayne, you know what I'm saying, produced by Timberlin,thought I was going to stop.I got the thought I was going to stop, challenge, if you can rap.Tag me, I'm reposting.I'm dropping it.I got an EP every month.October is out right now.
01:18:33I release on the final date of each month.On the latest one, I got production from Jermaine DePree.Features from Fabulous, you know what I mean?Shout to FAB.Shout to Anthony Hamilton on the previous one.Shout to, I said Wayne.I said Timmerlin.Shout to Swiss beats.
01:18:48Pete Rock,large professor,DJ Premier.Oh.Man,I hope I ain't forgetting nobody, man.Crooked eye,you know what I mean?
01:18:57He's featured on a joint.Shout out Crook.Shout out to Crook.Shout out to,um,uh,man,I don't want to forget nobody,
01:19:05man.So many people,man,everybody that featured on my monthly projects,man,I salute you.I appreciate you,man.
01:19:10And make sure y'all,make sure you go to all digital platformsand pick up that new papo songon Little Wayne.Let's go.Papoose,legend in the game.Thank you.
01:19:19And salute to you for having me, man.I hope you could tell I'm a real fan.And like, you know.Nah, man.You listen to me.I appreciate you, man.And the hospitality you show me.I flew out here just for this, bro.
01:19:30I'm going back on the red eye.That means a lot, honestly.Just just because your music was the soundtrackto a very, very important time period of my life.But when I first moved to the city, you know?Wow.That was when I'm riding bikes in the city every day,banging your shit all the time.
01:19:45I mean.Yo, man, I watch your interviews and, you know what I mean, I'm a fan of what you do,but I never knew that, man.You know what I'm saying?And to hear that, thank you, man.I appreciate it.Appreciate it, man.Pat Pooose.
01:19:55Love, man.Respect.My man, much love.Pat Pooz, No Jumber, coolest podcast in the world.Check us on on YouTube, Apple Podcast app, Spotify, Patreon, all that.Like, comment, and subscribe.Nojumber.com.If you want to support, go turn my man up on streaming services as well.
01:20:10There you go.Appreciate you, Doug.Peace and love.
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