No Jumper - The Rapsody Interview

Episode Date: September 30, 2019

Rapsody made a passionate statement with her new album 'EVE' where she pays homage to all her strong women influences! A pleasure to have her on the No Jumper podcast. --- FOLLOW OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST! https://spoti.fi/2vi9lsD CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz Follow us on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nojumper and iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 and follow us on Social Media: http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm follow Adam22 as well: http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 and follow adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper. Coolest podcast on the world. And today I'm in here with the beloved, respected, phenomenal, ridiculously talented Rhapsody. Oh, what an intro. That might have been the most flattering intro I've ever done. I don't know what just possessed me to do that. I love you too, man.

Hey, appreciate that. So how are you doing? I'm good. I'm tired, but I'm good. I'm thankful. What you've been doing? Because you waited for me. Oh, yeah, I guess we were waiting an hour and a half.

I didn't even notice. I was playing Tetris in there and listening to your music on blasts as you're. assistant here can attest. I'm good. You know, I'm doing those album promo runs. I just left doing voiceovers. Voiceovers for what? A food delivery service. Really? That's the best I can say. And wait, so is this what it is to be a pop-in artist these days is that you just have like a postmaids brand deal collab. So it's like, I'm Rhapsody and you should order a Big Mac and get my album with it or something. Is it a bundle? Is it a bundle? Yeah, like you order Postmates and you just get a RepCCD.

And then you go platinum. You go platinum just because you did it with a million Postmates orders. No, that's an idea. See how you did that? Well, there's somebody out there that's like honestly thought about that. Yo, but it matters who does it first. That's the bar. Well, DJ Kelly did it with energy drinks.

We're going to do it with fast food. Straight like that because everybody loves Postmace DoorDash. What else? Do you have a bundle deal with your album? Is there something you even thought about? It's a merch thing probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is.

I got fly jackets, vinyl, t-shirts, stickers, pins. There you go. Yep. Did you think, is that in any way unsettling to have to take part in such strange music industry traditions that we now have? I actually enjoy the bundles. It allows you to get creative, you know, and think of album sales outside of traditional. know nobody's going to the record stores no more so you know just like you know what can what can

what can I think of outside of the box if somebody like I just put my name on some boxers you know and put them in a bundle no I totally respect it because I feel like if you do it the right way it could be a really fun creative not gross expression of your brand and then when it's like you know like a Walmart thing or something then it's just kind of sometimes it ends up just feeling kind of yucky I'm with it You know That's just me though It's crazy because the only people who sell CDs at this point

Are like the people who are able to just somehow appeal to that tiny percentage of the country who still buy CDs That go to Target Yes And that's not me No Everybody You've got nuanced customers that know what they're doing No they're not buying no CD vinyl though

Yeah yeah yeah the vinyl probably moves on that vinyl yeah yeah yeah Really? Label was like you did great on vinyl last album Really? It was Annie up. Well, this was the year that vinyl first outsold CDs since the 70s or since like CDs came out, I guess in the 80s. Oh, this year, see, I was thinking it was three years ago. Well, yeah, it's been going up like crazy, but I guess this is the first year and actually fully passed it.

Oh, we right on time. Yeah. And it helps when you make great music because that's like a collector's edition. That's a fact. I want somebody to open my vinyl 30 years from here and hear the dust on it. And some music you can't even get a physical version now, though. No. Which is kind of troubling.

I've thought about becoming a record guy, having a record collection. You should. It's a thing. Because I have no physical connection with the music that I love, you know? And I find that kind of disturbing to think that, you know, there might be a makeshape that I listen to 30 times in my car. I love it. I have such a close relationship with it for that period of time. But then when I'm done with it and I move on to the next album that I'm listening to, there's nothing that remains.

It's like I don't like back that would have that exact same experience with CDs when I was a kid, but then that CD's sitting on the shelf and you see that CD once in a while and you get that mental reminder like that really meant something to me. And a lot of kids who listen to music and myself have kind of falling into this is you just have nothing physical that connects you to it. Exactly. You have nothing tangible to touch. It's like photos. Like I like to go home and go through photo albums. But it's not the same like to pick up a picture and be like, dang versus looking at it. Let me go to March. to go to places and see where I was. Exactly. It's just different to be able to touch it and having a memory. Yeah. For me, it's like I want that.

I'm like craving that. And in general, it's weird too because now everybody makes merch. So like merch can't be the solution. To physicals. To like creating that connection because I feel like the merch thing has just become so sort of blown out. I know merch is like super important artists and everything, but sometimes it just seems like that has gotten taken to this absurd level.

Yes, it's normal. out. I think we're all going to go analog soon. There's going to be a generation that rebells because everybody's going to be digital. It's going to be like, I don't want to do what y'all are doing. So we're going to go back to answering

phones on dial tones and having answering machines and Walkmans. Like, I really think that's the next move. And I think Kanye is kind of ahead of that by doing like these Sunday services that are just out of the field and making an experience. I feel like that's like the wave.

like we've reached the limits of technology and its ability to connect us. I feel like to a certain extent as a society, we're sort of done with being just mystified with technology and thinking, oh, this is so great, and we're going to just use this, and this is going to replace everything in our lives. It feels like a lot of people, whether they've really tangibly set it in their head or not, they've sort of come to that realization that it's like gatherings are really important. And being around people is really important. Exactly. You know, even the FaceTime call versus the text is really important, you know?

Yes. People want to see you and really have a connection now. Like, I find myself even talking more on the phone, like back in the day. Because it's crazy, like, a lot of people in the day, they don't even know how to hold conversations. Right. Like, they'll hit you be like, yo, what's your IG? I'm just going to DM you from across the room. I find that way when someone asks for your Instagram instead of your phone number

because it's like, oh, so you want a way to contact me where you can also keep an eye on the score that has been attributed to my existence of how important I am. Gotcha. Because that's what they mean, you know? Basically. All the most insecure guys I know

are the ones who give the girl their Instagram immediately. Yo, that says something. Let me show you my fake life. Check on my 30K. That's good. My 30K in this picture with my glamour glow

that makes my pecs look a little bigger than they are. That's real. Talk to me about your early rap fandom because it just feels like when you listen to you, like you must have been such a rabid hip-hop fan and like you probably had like a ridiculously intense love affair with it from early on. I did. I did. I fell in love with it, watching so many, but MC Light was definitely one. Let me tell you, that Method Man All I Need video. Wow. But that took me

that took me over the top. Really? Yeah. Like that's when, like, the stories of it and how cool he was and he had on the Grand Hill Philis. So you kind of knew about that before you knew about, like, Wu Tang itself? That was like an entry point? No, I knew about Wu, but it was particularly that song and Method Man that really just like, you know, because he was fine too. Oh, yeah. And marriage, it was just something that was super cool about that particular video. Isn't it funny that they have Dave East on the Wu Tang show playing Method Man?

Because he's like the stereotypical good-looking. rapper guy. Exactly. When I saw the cast and I was like, Dave East, that makes sense. Right. Because Me Method Man was, and it still is the sex symbol. I showed my girlfriend Dave East and she was just silent and I just look at her and I go, you can say it's hot.

Like, you're so transparent. I know that's what you're thinking. I'm like, I don't care. You can just say that that's what you're thinking is that, oh, he's a good looking guy. Did she say it? Yeah. And I just thought it was goofy as fuck that she thought I was really care. But I guess I ought to say it.

Because if it was like my homie, then I maybe wouldn't want to hear it. No, not the home. If your bro is hot, it's like, I don't really know if I want to hear my girlfriend. Oh, that's true. Because that's too close to home. If she's got a super hot friend, I'm probably not going to mention it. No, you don't do that. You know, maybe in a context where it's relevant.

It's not relevant all that time, all that often. Because if she ever comes around, she's going to be looking at you if you're looking at her. It's always going to be a thing. We're so open, though. She knows I don't want anything. She knows I don't have any mental space for, like, actually liking other girls? See, well, that's good.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I'm... I don't think she's that worried about it. Okay, but yeah, so MCLite, Method Man, anything else in particular that stands out that help form your pedigree? Illmatic. Mm.

I ran it at AZ, Sugar Hill, Queen Latifah, Fuji's, Chris Cross. Really? Oh, that was huge for me in second grade. I definitely wore my pants backwards. Oh, yeah, I tried to that one, too. I'm pretty sure my parents just reprimanded me. Yo, yeah, those were early.

Like where I was from, we didn't have like a bunch of mom and pop stores. You can go get music. So I didn't necessarily listen to a bunch of albums. Everything I saw was a single. Like, remember when you get singles for a dollar, that's what I would get or I was watching videos. So if it wasn't, you know, if they didn't have a video for it, if it wasn't big single on the radio, a lot of times I missed a lot of that early hip-hop and I had to catch up. Right. So that's probably another reason why all I need really resonated me versus a whole.

Wu-Tang album. Right. Because I listened to, I didn't listen to 36 Chambers to, I was probably a senior in high school. Right. Yeah, I mean, that was what it was, to be a rap fan at that time. You go to the CD store for me. Go to the CD store.

And it's like you're gambling because it's like, you know that you like, you know, I like buy like multiple like Ice Cube CDs that ended up being like not Ice Cube CD you wanted like some weird bootleg or like compilation thing. Like, you know, and then then you just get the right one. but I had no way to figure out which was the right ice Q CD to buy. You took a chance. Yeah. And it's just like, man, I loved, you know, this DMX, but that third album, I was like,

dag, this one ain't really hitting for me. But yeah, you always had to take a chance. But a lot of times you came out on the better end and I say you would today. Because you were exploring. And it was very much a system that rewarded. people that were explorative and that were down to try new things. Whereas now to be a rap fan when I think about it is such a strange thing where they have these perfectly curated playlists that are just like, this is the kind of person you are,

this is what you need. And it's just so manufactured and it's such a strange way. And kids will never know how strange it is. No. And they don't know who they are, what they even like because they wait for somebody to tell them this is what you like. Like this is your playlist. This is like you got to figure out what you like for yourself and who you are and what you want on your own playlist.

But they can't even really do that nowadays. And that's a trip. Yeah. Because it's like to a certain extent these people know and we kind of know that the playlist, they're the product of artificial intelligence basically. So they're actually better at predicting what you might like than what you currently know that you like. Right. Which is scary. Yes.

Like they're better at knowing what I want. them what I know that I want. Not me, though. You don't buy it? No. I like tremendously respect people who have eclectic tastes, especially in this age, like people who like will throw on some dope shit from the 70s. That's just random.

I wake up this how I feel today. Like I'll go to the playlist because sometimes it's just like, I don't know what I'm going to listen to today. So let me see what they got. And I'm just like, I like this song, but all of these are not. Like, I can't, I never find a playlist where it's just like I can let this rock ever so I am the anomaly in that but it's funny because like you're also a artist who's signed to a label so you know that that's totally part of being an artist is that they're strategically

working these connections to get you on all these playlists like if you if you land on rap caviar it's like you just fucking hit the lottery yes because when I landed on I was like thank you Jesus rap life that check just it was a It's like the Spotify lottery. Oh, I don't know. I haven't received one of those yet. This is my first year. I'm actually making it to that part of the game.

So we'll see. That's exciting. I just know that it's a thing and people really look for it and they listen to it. Exposure. I've listened to it a few times. Like, yeah, it sort of feels like it's just part of like the new, what it is to be a new rap fan. And I'm a little bit disconnected from it. I get it because we cut from the same area.

We are kind of the same same age. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's cool. It was like our high school reunion. So specifically in North Carolina, though, was there any sort of like local rap scene that you were a part of? Or when did you tap in with it? I'm sure it was, but it probably took a little while for you to discover it.

It was until I got to college. I went to NC State. And, you know, where I'm from is a small country town. The rap scene was the back of the bus, you know, or you might go to some. Mighty Cribb and they just freestyle and while they roll up blunts. That was probably the extent of the rap scene where I grew up. So I went to college at NC State and I was working at Foot Action and I met who became my best friend, a guy named Charlie Smart's.

And he introduced me to the Riley rap scene. Like he would take me to beat battles. He was in a band. So I started going to shows and it's like I'm really finding my way like, you know, learning who the Justice League is. At this time, I didn't even know who little brother in Ninth Wonder were. So he introduced me to all of that, and that's how I kind of got in it. Like, I went to a lot of shows, and though I knew I always wanted to do it,

you know, I had examples of, you know, this is how it feels, and this is where you start at, like, in a small place, but you feel the energy. He took me to my first studio, you know. He's the one that told me, like, get on the mic for the first song. So I'm experiencing all of these things, probably my sophomore on up in college. And that's invaluable stuff because a lot of people who really want to make it in the rap world They're just so fucking close because they don't have any actual like real life interaction with it and that's kind of the main Best thing you could get

Yeah, no you got to be of the culture and start there like we started we started hip hop organization on campus and we would go back to the grassroots Like every Friday we would have a cipher You know Friday night or we ran out the event center in the bottom of the dorm and we had rap battles and I was always the host like It felt like eight mile but on campus, like the energy, like, and learning like, this is really what the culture is and how it's supposed to be in free expression and rhyme. Like, that's where I started. Wow. Yeah. That's the kind of thing. Do you feel like when you look back on it, do you take it, did you take it for granted? Because to have, like, a truly vibrant scene like that is a rare thing. To have that

many young people just all around each other are that excited about music. Yeah. What was the question? Do you feel Were you aware of how special that was at that time? Because sometimes when you start working in the world and stuff You start to kind of lose your zeal for that excitement Yeah I know it was special for me because I didn't have it before Right yeah

Like you know if you lived in the city or like a New York Or a bigger metropolitan area For us like a Riley or Charlotte, L.A., Like you get to experience those things a lot You get to go to shows and see artists. Like there's culture everywhere. There was none of that existed how I grew up. So when I got to college, I did appreciate it because I wanted it so much,

but I only got to see it through TV. I only got to see it through movies. You know, so to actually be in it, to be hosting and be a part of it, like I appreciated it like no other. So it was different for me in that way versus somebody like, it's just a part of that everyday life. Some people who grew up in Harlem and shit. Yeah.

And they just are, like, so used to see and shit. Like, it's just not as challenging, I guess. Even in L.A., you can walk out of the Supreme Story, like, see rappers all day and shit. And it's just part of the everyday life. Yeah. Versus if that was my, like, people would go crazy. They would go nuts. Like, even to go to New York and be like, dang, that's Sedgwick Ave.

And people that live around there, they're like, hmm, it's Cedricab. I walk around this every day where hip hop started, you know, so it's just different. It's a different appreciation. I think that with the people in LA when it comes to the weather so much, I'm like, man, you people have no fucking clue how nice this is compared to the shitty-ass weather I grew up in. Where did you grow up? Like right outside Boston.

Ooh, bro. New Hampshire. It's kind of legendary for snow. It's definitely cold. I really did not like cold. I went there like a week ago. I was like, we got to go back. Really? It's fall for real over here. Oh, yeah.

The leaves. People come from all over the country, go, look at the leaves where I grew up. And that's a perfect example. I don't think what you want to look at the leaves because they don't know nothing about the leaves changing color fucking leaves have always they look the same like they've always been doing that my whole life

I never really thought about it but yeah I guess they are kind of beautiful oh yeah see I I noticed that too but I live in North Carolina and it changes like that all the time so when you start rapping how quickly do you take to it were you tight at first look so I was tight lyrically with words but my cadence

my cadence was off my Cadence was off, my voice was off, it was super high pitch, like dumb high pitch. Let me see my inflections, like my joint was probably like real monotone. Like I hadn't, I did not sound confident at all, but I was lyrical. I've always been lyrical. So that's been since day one. I started out doing poetry, maybe like my 10th grade year, high school, always read a lot, read books.

So just the power to play with words and be creative. I was an artsy kid. I was wondering if you had a poetry background because, yeah, my girlfriend makes me go to the poetry lounges sometimes and I was definitely thinking that. Makes me. Yeah, you know. Once I get there, it's not a makes me thing. It's just to like put it in my calendar and make sure that I'm going to be there.

Yeah, no, that was a thing for me. Because, so I knew I wanted to rap early and I tried it like 11 or 12. Like I tried, I'm going to test it out on my brother. You know, we was cleaning up one Saturday morning. I pulled a vacuum hose out and I tried to freestyle. He was like, you freaking suck. Wow. So I was like, all right, I'm just write poetry.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not going to do that no more. That happened. And we had like a pet rally at high school. And I've been practicing my freestyle that I wrote all day. And when I got the mic, I froze, you know. Wow, really? And so, yeah.

So I was like, I'm just going to get into this poetry thing. Whenever I'm at the poetry lines, I'm always thinking about the poets as rappers. like sitting there being this like vulture-ass A&R just thinking like could he be a rapper? Because it's such a different thing. Man it's so different. Like even battle rap,

rapping and spoken word poetry are all different things. Like you gotta have different skillsets. Like time to take somebody in the poetry world and put them in the rap world. They try to rap but in a poetic way and your delivery is just completely different. Have you ever seen it work or is there anyone that I'm not thinking of who stands out as people that like came from the poetry scene and then became really bit popular as rappers or is it usually separate? Not that I know of like only one I could I could think of.

It's probably like most deaf. True. But I don't even know if he started with poetry first. He just seems like he would. Because he hosted the show. Deaf poetry champ. Yeah. Maybe.

But nah. I always see rappers being able to do poetry and spoke a word. But, I mean, I guess so. Like, I started out in poetry first. You seem too nice to be a battle rapper. I am. Was that actually why it didn't work? Did you ever try that?

Would I ever try it? Or did you ever try? I just feel like that is just such a, it's the most testosterone-fueled, aggressive shit on earth. Yeah, I'm way too nice. You got to, like, there ain't no rules in that. You can't worry about hurting nobody feeling. And I'd be like, man, I'll be trying.

I probably could write a great battle rap for somebody else. It's something I never said. Like, that might be too hard. I saw a battle where a girl pulled out a photo of the other girl's bed. And it was just like the nastiest bed. She's like, this is your bed. And it was like, and everyone in the crowd was, oh, everyone just went with it. And I was just like, man, that's crazy.

Because if that's not her bed and it's just a picture of a random bed and everyone just believed it because why the fuck would you have a photo of a random ass person's bed? I'm like, that's genius. Yo, straight up. Because once you got them, you got them, man. Yeah. I can probably batter a rap today, though. My confidence is a little different.

Or if somebody diss you, like, really good that you just wanted to wash them. I practice those in my head every day. Really? Yes. When I'm driving, when I'm in the shower, I battle people in my head. Oh, my God. It would be such a gift. If somebody whacked this, it would be just the biggest gifts.

Not even whacked. Just somebody in general. Yes. I mean, it'd be fun. You know, it would be fun. be something I would like to, you know, partake in for the sport. It's weird that we live in this world, though, where nobody really talks shit on each other because everybody wants to keep the peace because they know that someone will write a song

about them. Yeah, they ain't ready for the battle. You got to really be cut from the cloth and secure. Everybody ain't really secure. Yeah. You know, when it comes to, like, really doing it. Because that exposes all your deepest, darkest shit. They're going to pull up everything you ever, like, you know, it's just,

I just think about how it's just a war of just egos up there on stage and just trying to just smash the other person. Like the best, most devastating battles are the ones where the dude's actually like crying. Or like ashamed, like hanging his head and shame. Like that's what you want to see. It's a brutal art form. Yes, that or it's just like they go blank.

That's when you know you got them. But, hmm. You didn't get too deep in that, though. Nah, nah. No. So how do you like fast forward to meeting Ninth Wonder and him actually taking serious enough if they want to work with you on that level? Is there like how far do we have to go to get to that point? Because that's incredible. Let me see. Okay. I get to college and I ain't going to say what a year.

But I met Ninth the summer of 2005 for the first time. Okay. And he's just like the local god at that point? Because he's got to be like the biggest name in that scene. Right. Because at this time he's coming off a black album. Mary J. Blige. Probably nobody in North Carolina had anyone talking as much as he did at that time. No, he was the god. Jay Cole hadn't popped yet, so it was ninth. He was the biggest thing in hip-hop to come from there.

So I meet him in 2005, you know, randomly. At this time, the summer before is when I write and record my first two songs ever. Like, I'm writing poetry at the time, like maybe some verses here, but to write a full song and record it, I probably did it two months before I met him. And he hears these two songs, which I'm like, it ain't nothing that's probably going to impress him.

You know, I'm happy with it, but, you know, he listens to it, and he runs it back maybe like five to seven times. And I'm thinking, like, he's probably going to nitpick it and tell me, like, you need to do this and that. He looks up and he says, that's your star. And it's a room full of guys like, you know, all my friends that are in the hip hop organization, Charlie Smart is there.

And he says, this is your star. Wow. Yeah. And after that, you know, I don't, he gives me homework. That's what he does. He gives me homework to work on my flow because, again, like, I'm lyrical. But the flow needs some work. Inflection needs some work.

So he tells me, listen to boop, boop, boop these albums. And listen to how they're saying it, not necessarily what they're saying. So I did that. I probably did that for like three months consistently. Like it was at a point where I could get in the shower and rap the very first word to the very first song of the Black album to the very last one. Wow. I would do that all the way through.

And, you know, he keeps in touch, you know, just to check in on us. Let's just come to the studio, watch Little Brother record sometimes. And, you know, he just continues to take me under his wing, give me lessons. You know, then he goes to Central. He gets his own studios. We start hanging out there. And I get a manager, and he's like, what are your short-term long-time goals? And I'm like, well, I hear Knife is starting a label.

Like, you know, I love to be a part of it. So you would have been a little too scared to mention that to him directly beforehand? You just ended up saying it to the manager? I just never thought about it, you know? Like, I'm just, I think I'm so focused on working on the music and a homework. And, you know, he just presented the question, like, what are your goal? and I'm just like with that when we think about it. I mean, I've been working with Knife.

I heard he's starting a label. I love to be a part of it. So we have a meeting and Knife is like, yeah, I love to have you. And this was 2009. And he officially announced the label sometime after, sometime later that year. Uh-huh. That's crazy. Yeah.

And did you, was it a scenario where you were sort of like rushing to get stuff out? Or was it a scenario where you wanted to like be incubated for a long time and just really try to build up your skill set before you revealed yourself to the world. I think it was more so I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where to start. So for him just to give me homework, like that was enough for me to focus on to figure it out. Like I knew I wanted to do a project. You know, I wanted to put something out, but I wanted to do it right.

So I didn't know how to start. So whatever he told me to do, I did it. It didn't matter what it is, what it was. You know, I'd come in and do songs. You'd be like, write it over. I write it over. And I probably was developing in the beginning before I was allowed, not allowed, but able to even put out my first project for two years. I probably did three or four hundred songs. None of them would see the light of day, but it was all just development. But you saw the value in that.

Was that in any way frustrating? Because a lot of rappers get into that position, they got to work on their craft for two years, and it drives them insane. No, not for me because I didn't have an ego. Yeah, and I knew I wasn't as good as everybody else. So I wasn't in no rush. Like, I didn't feel like it was. even time for me yet.

There were so many people that were in and out of that studio and they were so dope. And I was just like, man. So the frustrating part of me was with myself, like, Dag, why can I ever consistently learn about cadence and keep it? Like, why am I always just going off of the cadence? You know, why can I learn to write good hooks? Why am I hook sucking? You know, so it was more frustration with me of just wanting to be better.

I necessarily wasn't worried about, like, oh, I need to get this project out. is taking so long. My frustration, like, I got to get these things. Knife told me to mark off the checklist, to master to be a great MC, I got to get this right. So that was the thing I was focusing on. I feel like you're like the last generation that might have grown up with that sort of mind state. Yeah. I don't hear anything like that from a lot of the young artists I talk to. Man, I don't know. I play sports too, so that might have had something to do with it. Like, you know, I think that. What did you play? I play basketball. So I learned so.

A lot of things I learned through basketball was able to apply to music about work ethic. I was always the first to practice last to leave. I was team captain, you know. So the same thing with the studio. If 9th got there at 4, I would get there 4. But if he stayed till 5 in the morning, I'm staying until 8 in the morning. You know what I'm saying? Like whatever he did, I had to do more of.

Right. You know, how are you 9th Wonder who's working, got a Grammy nomination, work with Jay, marry, all these people. if you work in this much and I know I need to work 10 times harder than that. So that was like my thing. And that I knew that in order to get better, I had to practice. It's like shooting free throws. Right.

So that was always my mind state. That's just crazy because I feel like that is how I try. That's what I want to try to explain to like young artists when I'm talking to him is like my advice for you is, like, don't make three songs and put them on SoundCloud and then just start pushing them and acting like you're a real rapper right now. It's like you should make 30 songs and you should be able to look at the first one and then look at the last one and see serious demonstrable results. I hate that that's how you're supposed to say that word. To me it seems like it should be demonstrable, but whatever. You should be able to see the progress and you should be going out and you should be meeting people, not necessarily with the intention of just promoting your stuff, but you should be linking with producers and engineers or like the types of people who can really guide your sound and like really like make you.

have something that will be better, you know, and even just learning to actually rap, like the physical act of rapping is something that you're just, you're not going to be in peak form on your first song. There's no way, bro. And that's why it's frustrating that some people do have big hits off their first song, but that is a freak accident. And we see. Hard to explain.

That be the only thing they have. Quite often. So it's just like, if that's what you want, you better get it and hope you got a plan to do something because it's not going to last long. But, you know, yeah, that's exactly it. Like, when people ask me for advice, those are always the things that I tell them. Like, you got to be patient with yourself. You got to be honest with your music.

You have to celebrate every win. Like, Knife always told me if you put out a song and today it gets five, and tomorrow it might have 10 plays and that's a win because people are listening to your music. If you put out and you get five songs one day and three then next, then you got to be like something ain't right. I got to get back. So you celebrate the wins. You put in your 10,000 hours.

You build relationships because they matter sometimes. more than the music, like the relationships you build. Those are going to be the people that you call up or people that see you and support you that are going to be, you know, CEOs of labels one day or going to be at Spotify, curating playlist and you build a relationship with them. They follow your career. And now you're at the time of your artistry where it's like, yo, you could be on this joint. I've known you.

I've watched your grind. I like you as a person. So I'm going to look out for you. Like all of those things are important. And too, like I was with Reason last night, and we was talking about, you know, just albums and sequels in. And, you know, we started on the conversation of people don't even, like a lot of artists that they don't even work with producers to executive produce their projects. Like you get albums and they have good songs, but the sequencing is so out of whack. It's just like it throws the album off.

So it's just so much that goes into making music. And a lot of times just humbling yourself and not having an ego and allowing people to help you and help you. and help yourself like it's interesting because you came out at sort of like a weird time where the music industry was in a real state of flux yeah where the albums were over albums weren't really selling the way that they used to there was like the mixtape scene was kind of doing something for a period of time and then there was this sort of like weird time period where everybody's just listening to mp3s on blogs and stuff that people haven't fully like adjusted over to streaming and now that landscape is super solidified and it's like very like commonly understood thing.

Has that been odd for you to sort of navigate because you came into the music game at a time when there was like very little of an established blueprint for how you're going to be successful rapper? Yeah, like I remember being in it. We are the middle of children and just trying to figure out like, yo, how is anybody going to eat? Because it was a time where like nobody's buying CD. anymore. But everything is, you know, pretty much for free. The SoundCloud is MP3. So unless you're like a crazy pop artist, that's when everybody was doing 360 deals too, you know. That's when that was

invented. Yeah, that was a big thing. So for me, it was just like, okay, I got a tour and I got to figure out a way to sell merch and, you know, to make money. But if anything, like, I just need my music to go crazy from somewhere. Like, it was all about YouTube views at that time and getting signed. So it was just hard to figure out. Like, I don't really even know where this is going, let alone where I fit in it, because the sound of music, like, there was really no space for lyrical artists, you know, on that big of society.

Like, at this time, it's trying to, like, black hippie just kind of popping. Jay Cole, mixtapes are doing good, but, you know, it still hasn't, and it's not at the forefront of the sound. So it was just a really, like feeling through the dark black time like man i don't know what we're going to do and you know even with streaming you could stream stuff but they really didn't know how to monetize it at that time too so you know just trying to figure it out but you know you got to have blind faith at this point that it's just going you just got to stick with it and keep going and just see how it grows like i don't know

definitely was as a fan was it crazy watching jay coles rise and see him and get as big as he's gone just as a North Carolina person? It was inspiring, you know, and to know, like you say, like he did it off the mixtape scenes. Right. He's probably the last one to really do it off mixtapes like that.

Like, for real mixtapes where, you know, when I did a mixtape, they were all, like, beats of mine that producers made. Like, they were pretty much albums almost. But he used to still do industry beats and rap over those, you know what I mean? Right.

And it was just dope to see him do that and to sign with Jay-Z and Rockefeller to be from North Carolina and do that. Like, it was inspired. It was super inspiring. Yeah, that was from a while. You know, the first time I think I ever became aware of you was when you did that video with Mac Miller. I tell people, like, a lot of the foundation of my fan base on Mac Miller fans. Really? Yeah, like, my career, it would not have been the same without him. So that was a big moment. How did you even get connected to him? He drove down with, you know, the most dope crew, Jimmy, Tree, J, Q.

And this is super early before he's real big? Yeah, I mean, at the time, he's, like, starting his bubble. Like, at this time, his videos are getting millions of plays, and he's probably doing shows at this time between 500,000 people. Mack is a crazy example of somebody who came up on mixtapes and even got sued for, he was like, that dude who got sued for wrapping over somebody's beat, yeah. That's crazy, like, this helped monetize your career, we're going to figure out the way to get it.

And every rap fan is just like, whoa, like they can do that? What the fuck? We've been doing this forever. Like, what are you talking about? It seems, everything seems so simple up until this moment where we realize you can get sued for that. Yeah, but, you know, the music business is hurting. They're trying to figure out anyway at this point to get money to figure it out. But yeah, they drove down to North Carolina in the station wagon like Mac's a big fan of knives.

I think crisis had reached out. So they came to work. And that's how I met him because I was a studio rat, always in the studio. If I wasn't recording, I was still in there. If we had a guest, I was watching, I was learning. I was asking questions. So he came, and I was just in there. And, you know, you know, you probably, you know Mac.

You knew Mac, of course. I didn't know him personally, but he had, like, been around my store and stuff, like, in the weeks or months before he passed, which is, like, really, like, a huge bummer. That, like, a bunch of my friends got to meet him this one night that I wasn't there. But, yeah, I was always a fan and everything. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, what you saw was you get, like, super lovable, love people, love good, energy was all about having fun. So it was just easy to connect with him. And he was a big fan of the

culture. So I was working on, I was working on my first mixtape, Return of the Beat Girl. And he listened to it and he liked it, you know, he did a song with me. And he left. And two weeks later, he called Ninth. He was like, yo, I like rapsy. I want to bring on tour. Wow. Like, straight like that. Like, if he liked you, he liked you, if he thought you was dope, he was going to give you a chance. And I know I'm not the only one that has a story like that. He's taking so many artists, you know, that had, were at the beginning of their career like me and just gave them a platform or shared his platform with them to put them on. So, you know, doing a, doing a song

with me, taking me on tour, doing a video with me at the time, like his videos again and get millions of views, you know, that's how I got a large portion of my fan base through him. Because anything he was on, people were going to listen to. It didn't matter what it was. So that helped you really get in the door? Definitely. Wow, that's so cool. Yeah.

Damn. So, I mean, it's kind of fast forward to having your whole thing, but did you guys stay in touch and like up through his life? And what was your relationship with him when he passed? Yeah. It wasn't like we talked every day, but, you know, he would come back to North Carolina a lot, so I'd always see him in or, you know, either we would DM each other or, you know, I'd hit him every now and again, like, what's up?

How you doing? Just checking in. It wasn't, like, we could go six. months without talking sometimes and he still come to North Carolina, you pick up where you left off, like, he'd come to the studio, he always bring a bunch of girls. You know, but, you know.

He's one of those dudes when he passed. There was like a million girls writing Instagram posts about it. Oh, man. You know? But it was crazy when he came to the studio. He was really about the music. Like, all the guys wouldn't be with the girls, but he would always be in the studio working. Like, never a part of that. So, but he just liked to have good people and fun.

around him, energy around him. So before he, when he passed, I think the last time I remember talking to him, I had just missed him. It was the Smokers Club Festival. Right. And I was in the trailer doing an interview, and Knife had went to see, I can't remember who was performing at the time, but Mack was out there. And I hate that I missed him because, you know, Matt asked about you, and I told me,

I was like, dang. But before that, the last time I remember was complexion. I did complexion and he hit me he was like yo that verse is crazy like it's ill that you on the album like that's the last time I remember like I was having a conversation

conversation wow that's crazy have you did you ever get to a point in your life where you were partying too hard or anything like that because I feel like when I think about the Mac Miller situation it makes me feel like I feel like that about plenty of my friends

I feel like they party too hard and I'm not being and the loyal, attentive friend that I could potentially be. You know, everybody's so busy, but it's like sometimes you see people who maybe it feels like I should reach out more often. Yeah.

We definitely reached out to him. Like, we knew he was struggling with some things. And it's tough, like, to be that young and be that successful, that fast, where, you know, you get all this money, you have anything at your disposal. And you move to L.A., you know, with your homie. he's like.

And all of a sudden you're dating Ariana Grande and then she makes an album about you and shit. Life moves so fast, you know, and you're still so young and still trying to figure it out. You always don't know how to handle it all when it comes that fast to you.

So, you know, I get it like he's human. I can remember nice, you know, having a conversation. You know, he was open about his struggles too. So it was just, it was just, it's crazy, but it was at a time where, you know, you thought he was doing better or, you know,

you know, like, this is Mac, but it, I don't know, like, you see it, but what can you do? Like, what?