No Jumper - The Sha Money XL Interview: The Rise & Fall of G-Unit & Bobby Shmurda’s Return

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

Legendary producer and A&R Sha Money XL, blesses us with some behind the scenes stories about working with 50 Cent, G-Unit, 2Chainz, Bobby Shmurda, J Cole and more, how he wanted to sign J Cole since day one and how to not dwell on the negative if someone do you dirty in this business. https://www.instagram.com/shamoneymotivation/ https://twitter.com/shamoneyxl ----- CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5tesvmDS8h50LkjnSAWMOs?si=j6sJD6DkR4mk5NZZWnlK7g FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz Follow us on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nojumper iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_Jumper/4874336901 http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFICIAL http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper, coolest podcast on the world. And today I'm very, very honored to be in the presence of one of the more legendary executives, A&R, behind-the-scene type characters throughout my time observing hip-hop. Very, very excited at Shimoni XL in the building. Thanks for having me here. Pleasure, man. Super excited, man. Yeah, in the building. I actually had Orlando Whartonberg say something the other day.

He's like, you know, me and Wayno, I think we're the only A&Rs you ever interviewed. And I don't know that that's true, but we need to expand the list either way. It's time now, right? I mean, it's some of the most interesting conversations. They getting busy, though. They're getting busy, so respect to them for that. When did you start thinking to yourself as an A&R, or do you still fuck with that description?

Or how do you think of what you're doing in the game? 2002, I started realizing that I was more than just a producer. That's when I realized, I ain't know the title yet, you know, but I started putting together plays and music and records and things that wasn't my beat. Like, this wasn't my beat, but I'm running to the artist and saying, you need to rap to this.

Finding the right hook, yo, this is a dope hook. You should put this thing on that or whatever. So I just started doing that naturally and it just turned into A&R because after you see the actual results, it's like, yo, I did that, I did that, I picked this beat,

I brought this producer to the session and then all of a sudden, get Richard Died trying. Right. You know what I'm saying? And I mean, that must have been, like when we think about that project, I mean, that's a very, very high pressure scenario

for you to be attempting to have any kind of creative input. So it's like the stakes are really fucking high with that sort of project. Yeah, I mean, but we created the whole the stakes and the pressure and the whole thing because we came together knowing that this is the,

this is someone that they wanted to kill, of course. So he's blessed to be in this position where he's back in the studio rapping. Right. But with all the odds against them and all the energy that's present, the people calling, trying to find them and finish the job,

that kind of energy led you to know that, Joe, you can't be running outside just recklessly. So we in my basement, we record every day and we get into it and we're not thinking about outside. We're just in the studio working. So that's how we got into that zone where everything got created.

You know, it's interesting. People always say, like, you don't really know that these are the best times of your life or, like, the most epic moments of your life until much later. Facts. When you kind of start to realize,

like, fuck, I was in the middle of the shit right then. Real talk. Did you know at that time? Did you know how important it was? I knew something was different because everybody was calling my phone and even the homies was like, yo, you need to stay away from it, man,

because this motherfucker, you know, shit is crazy. I interview people all the time and I get that from people with you. Yeah, like, stay away, you know? So it's like... You can interview them, but don't go to the hood with them. So I know the odds was increased because everybody was against it.

So, but I'm in a city like, yo, whatever you're willing to die for, live for, you've got to be ready to die for. So this is one of those opportunities where the risk, no risk, no reward. So here I am, young, hungry, knowing music, knowing that I can see the future, early and I took that chance.

I remember there was a Jay-Z quote where he said that he had told everybody on the rock that somebody was going to come in the game around that time around like 2002 and somebody was going to DMX the game and then it ended up being 50 but he had known that like the game was ready at that time for somebody to come in

with just pure macho energy just pure street energy. And he was preparing the whole squad because he had a whole squad from Philly all the way down in Memphis Bleak and he was letting him know, like, somebody's about to come, man. A lot of amazing artists,

but at the end of the day, like the 50 wave was bigger than the music. It was bigger. It was the personality, the music, the group, the branding, everything. Yeah, turned into a movie. We lived the life that turned into a movie. But so were you around in his career

prior to him putting out the freestyle about robbing everybody, or when did you insert yourself into this? Yeah, yeah. I met him through Jammaster Jay, rest in peace. Right. And that was in the early, like, 95, 96. Holy shit.

And so as soon as he signed in Jay, that's how I met him, because I was in the studio, interning for JMJ, and he played the hit, a record that they did together. And I was fascinated with that song, like, yo, this dude is dope. I want to work with him. So he's like, you do. So he went and got him and brought him to the studio,

and that's how I met him. Holy shit, though. That's pretty amazing that it could be like, you were working with him for six plus years before he really started to take off? Since he started, like, yeah. As soon as he got with Jay, that's when I got with him. And at the same time, we came up.

under Jay. That's pretty incredible because I remember there being like a very significant lull between him coming out robbing everybody and it kind of seemed, you know, that's like a certain lane is that like we've seen a lot of rappers come out and do sort of like troll type songs like that, get a bunch of attention. But you very rarely expect that to turn into an actual career. And there was like a nice big gap before it happened. Yeah, no, it was because he was studying hip hop. I will watch him studying Beanie, studying different artists and what they're doing, how they're coming with it. Then Beanie had this record where he was just rapping straight through and he was was just going crazy so you could see the talent so it was like he was figuring it out so he came

with that how to rob that was soon as he kind of left jay and started with trackmasters and he would that was when he was in the studio with them and came up with that song right there on the spot and did that wow it's pretty crazy yeah but but what kept you engaged for that long because to stay on top of an artist who isn't successful for six years i always think about that because like my line here is like we get in, we do the content, it takes like an hour or two, and then that's it. We get to just put it out. The challenge of building an artist up and being able to weather like years and years of them not being profitable, successful, it's like that has to take a huge amount of confidence

and belief in yourself as well as the artist. Yeah, and you got to remember in the 90s, there was no internet, so time didn't move that fast. The slow come up as more normal. We wasn't as a yesterday's blog role. Like, it had more time. So with him. You got fond memories of the blog roll. I heard you mentioned that on another podcast.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So we had time. So for me, it's all about belief. And I'm in Queens producing for everybody. Royal Flush over there. You know, everybody caught mega havoc, prodig. So I know everything happened in every part of Queens. And I knew that he was different. He was special. So it was just like a matter of time that I knew it before it would connect. So I was committed. And I was committed to everybody that was coming out of Queens at that time period. So that was one of the focuses. Yeah. Do you think there was something special about that era in Queens? in particular? Because we don't necessarily think of Queens as being where the new New York heat is coming from right now. Yeah, I mean, Nas is my favorite rapper. He started a wave that, I mean, for Queens, we was the best to did it for the whole New York as far as sales and artists that came out of there. So I was just waiting for the next lineup. And I knew that we was online. So I just got it ready and just put the timing. Definitely. But when you're working on 50s career and stuff, he's like actively beefing with Nas for a significant portion of that, right? They're not. It was peoples, actually. At first. It was first, yeah, yeah. It was a short period. I mean, that was fifth just, you know, doing what he had to do.

The early part of us understanding that he was going to become a troll, which is what he kind of dominates with. So that was just the early stages, you know what I mean? But I think him and Nas is good now. But at that time, something did happen and they had a little off time. So that was a part of that. Is it a little weird to, like, have so much of the early days of your career and very much, like, you proving what you were worth in the industry tied up in the, somebody that you don't have a good relationship with now? Like, you don't speak about him like you're spiteful at all.

No, I'm not because it was, you know, you don't invest your time. You got people in your house, in your basement, your kids upstairs. If it was to happen, it would happen in your house first because that's where he spent most of his time. So you don't put that type of energy in that time and investment in someone and then turn around and have to feel like this hate and this, then you're going to be mad at every step they take. I don't live like that.

I knew he was a superstar, so I put that time in and that's what I'm about. So for me now, I mean, Even now, it's not like a hate thing. We don't hate each other. It's not like that. We just had a difference, and we have to split ways. And, you know, the media, of course, emphasizes and make things different. And, you know, Tom, we all move in different directions.

I went to Def Jam and went to Epic. So he went to keep doing his thing. So we just had to show each other that still we could survive without each other. And that's what we had now. But you don't really talk or nothing, but it's just kind of you assume that it's sort of cooled off since it hasn't been in the media for years and years? I'm just not chasing the energy of all of that. you know, for me, I've grown.

You know what I mean? Some of the mistakes I made when I was 20, I'm different now, you know what I mean? So it's like, you got to look back and like, yo, we was young, we was dumb, we was just getting money. So some of the mistakes, some of the things that was done, we just was young, we didn't know.

So that's what we have to live with. We can't just live in guilt, you know what I mean? You got to let that shit go or you won't heal from none of that. No, definitely. You know? Yeah, I mean, but along the way, he very much, like, made confrontation

and issues with other people, like a huge part of the brand. Was that ever taken to an extent that worried you or you thought this is not good for what we're building long term? You know, since the day I met him, we had, you know, we literally walking in the studio shooting five. Like back in the days, they called a slapboxing. So he was always with the drama, with the energy,

letting you know he was tough. He was always with the bully shit. So for me, it was like, I already knew. So it's like, all right, he's a real one. So you got to, you don't want to run from the real one. You want to get with the real one. So I knew that. He wasn't no one that you could take

and just play with like that. So that was my thing. Like, I knew that he was the truth. And that's what I was invested. I wasn't trying to get behind no whack rappers that wasn't really doing nothing. That wasn't really what they're saying on the records. And I wasn't with it.

So I knew that he was the truth. And that's what I was all about. But that's a big decision to make as ANR or anyone working with an artist is that at a certain point, sometimes the rapper that you believe in the most might be a person that you would never tolerate in your life. Yeah, that's right.

The last person you would want around you if it wasn't for the fact they were mega talented. Yeah, and you could see by, you know, as he has his fallouts, eventually it would come your way. It's just like that, you know, that hand, you're just waiting to point your way. So you know, I knew eventually we was gonna fall out because we was having early fallouts at the beginning,

like certain things we would argue about that he would see differently because he was raised by a pimp, you know what I'm saying? So he got the Pimp mentality and he looked at certain, even dudes is hoes like, yo, keep them broke so I could keep them with me. So certain kind of mentality that he was taught, It wasn't based on business of corporate 500s that we eventually ended up doing business with, you know what I mean?

So he had to adjust in that mindset, too. That kind of strategic thinking. I mean, I know that you probably are like me where there's definitely people in your life that you're like, I should have known not to fuck with him because I saw the way he treated other people and I should have known that eventually it would come back to me. That's a pattern.

Unless you get out of that, it takes kind of therapy, certain things that you got to do for mine, education just to feed the brain to get out of those patterns. Or you just live with it for the rest of your life. And that's who you are. And if you're good with it, that's cool. But for me, I'm always challenging myself to be better.

So I couldn't get with that. How do you have separation between what you're doing in terms of the artists you're working with? Like even when I was listening to you talk about being in the studio when Bobby got popped and shit. And like, you were like, you know, yeah, I could be sitting on the couch at home with my family that night. But I got to be with the guys. I got to be involved.

And it's very much like, if you're going to be in this business, the more hands-on you can be, the more essential you make yourself, the more important it is. But how has that balance changed as you became an adult that have other concerns? When you're young, it's just pure grind. Yeah, because you've got to get to it. And this is the time.

You've got to put an endless hours, thousand hours. When you have nothing. You got no risk, no reward. That's the real term that we live by. So I'm in the fire. Like, we've got to deal with it. Whether it's getting to shows where you don't know if this promoter's real,

or something janky shit or something could happen or whether you in the studio dealing with a bunch of kids that got a lot of shit going on that you don't even know. I've never been in the hip-hop part of social work, like a social worker or some kind of thing like you ask artists what their priors is or what they're dealing with.

And hip-hop, the bad or the better, man. So it's like you've got to get with the real ones and that's all I've been about. So for me, it's never been a fair thing or something I'm worried about. It's just shit happens. You just got to be prepared for when it happens. and I've been prepared, man.

You've been prepared, but, you know, there's got to be an extent to which, like, you have to find that balance, and you have to, like, find a way for you to be doing what's best for yourself and your own mental health, while also being around dudes who are, like, 20, they have seemingly endless energy, they sleep all fucking day while you're in the office, and that can be, like, really, really hard to balance that.

Now, in the beginning, first 10 years probably, I didn't have that balance. It was all about work, and I didn't get enough time with my first two children, certain things that I didn't do, that I learned eventually to now with my new, you know, my next children to spend that time and have that. So that's just being an adult. You're a young man turning into a real man, but you think you're a man, you're not.

So I had to get to that frequency, which I eventually got to, and that's when the time was balanced. Not everything is about money. Not everything's about music. It's all about the balance. Definitely. Yeah, was there ever a time, like, in comparisons to like your involvement with Bobby's career versus you're involved in with 50's career, I'm assuming that with 50s career, I'm assuming that with 50 it was much more hands-on

because that's like the only real artist that you're concerned about at that moment. Now you've got a whole bunch of artists that you have to spread your time between. What was your lifestyle like back then versus now? And like, how do you make sense of that? I make sense of this. There's a line that I learned a quote

as victims and volunteers in life, right? And I would like to say that 50 at that moment of his life was a victim. And with that, you don't know what's going to happen next because it was literally someone attempting to kill him, right? So you always have to be on point. So now here's his squad and the team. Shout out to everybody in Southside and in Shadyville that was behind us holding us down. And they was holding shit down, guns and all, like ready security without being security, you know.

So you've got to be able to have that and, you know, have those type of troops around you to hold you down. And we have to live that ever, right? The difference between that, he was more on a defensive mode. So now he's looking at everything coming. With Bobby, they was the ones running around while. out. They were volunteers. They was with this shit. So they were doing shit that ended up getting caught up to them, which came back and pulled them down at the time. It was time for them to go up. So that was the past catching up with them. So that's the difference how I look at it. There was a victim and it was a volunteer. So it's two different stories. 50 didn't go to jail. You know what I'm saying? He was able to get out of that situation and make it to the top. And when you really look at the history. That's a good formula of success.

When you look at the history of New York City rappers over the past like 20 years or whatever, 50 is kind of the rare exception that blew up and didn't immediately have his career implode. Because we've just seen it happen so many times, whether it's a Fed case, whether it's fucking just getting capped, anything, yeah, yeah. To what do you credit that? The fact

that he had just been through so much. He was an older guy by the time you signed him in the grand scheme of things. He was like 26. When that shit happened, when you get rich came out, 26. He had seen a lot of misery and failure. He's seen sign a deal, think is going to happen, don't happen. Sign another deal.

you're on the hospital bed and they're releasing you like hey you can have your pup back they gave them back everything you know what I'm saying thinking he was about to die and like yeah here's your shit back so he's seeing the whole world turn against them you know what I mean so for him he view it differently and that's where the cold heart come from because he was you know what I mean so but at that point it was a blessing here I come and we get to the next level so I consider myself a blessing definitely you know what I'm saying yeah you know as a person like that is just full of so much talent it's very much necessary

that you find a team around you that will actually help nurture that and I mean you could very, very easily imagine 50's career not having turned into what it was because we've seen so many talented rappers not turned into what they could have been. That's right. I mean you with trackmasters they got a label, Steve Stiles a part

of it, so many big execs, you think the formula's going to work. But then you get with another broke nigga from Queens and you in his basement and then that formula works. So it's all about formula for success. You know what I mean? You can't make the same recipe two different ways and expect it to come out the same way. You need that formula to stay the same. It's a recipe. Definitely. You know? So let's pull it all the way back. We just kind of hit a bunch of the 50 stuff early on. But talk about like your early days and how you realize that you were meant to be in this music business. Yeah, I woke up. First I started as a piano kid. Like my mom's put me in piano school. So I learned music. And you liked it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My parents tried that with me. It didn't work. It didn't work? No, I didn't give a fuck.

Yeah, no. I don't know why. When I look back at it now, I'm like, that could have been the start of something really important for you in your life. That would have been the rock band or something. Or I could have made a pushaistee beat or something, and you could have been dancing around on them keys, you know?

For real. So for me, it just kind of translated to me understanding music immediately faster. And then as I'm hearing hip hop, I'm like, yo, that's a piano. Like they're playing and that's drums, and I'm figuring it out. So I just immediately want to get to some DJ and, like, let me get some records and start

playing records, and that immediately turned into me wanting to make the actual records that I'm playing. Like, let me make a beat. So it was a real quick progression from playing piano to DJ to producer. I had a short period where I tried to be a rapper. I was like the first mumble rapper you ever heard. That was how you defined your style? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was terrible.

So I knew it wasn't going to be my career. You know what I'm saying? I had to choose that. My homie's like, yo, no, stick to the beats. That's amazing that you were able to recognize. that though because I feel like I constantly am meeting people that I think would be really talented execs or be able to work in the business in some way and they're like no I'm gonna be a rapper they want the big bag you know they want the big big bag they want the in some ways I think

they want to fail they want to pick a idea that they know has like almost zero percent chance of working out yeah I mean yeah then they blame everybody else when it don't work see it over and never never give you the credit when it do work but that big one of the biggest issues if you want to make something out of your life is sort of like being able to be real with yourself and realize what you're good at and when you're not good at. So I find that very impressive that you were able to give it a shot to be so clearly in love with hip hop and then not feel the need to really keep pushing an issue that wasn't meant to be. Yeah, nah, because I had speech issues as a kid. So I already was like, like, ah, I already know. But I wanted to rap because I was into it. But if you had made

it, then you'd be saying I had speech issues as a kid and that's what made me special. Just like 50 got shot in the tooth and that becomes the story. But it was like, nah, I ain't going to do that. Be the first mumbo rapper. I said, let's wait for the South to do that. What was the music that was like had you so excited about hip-hop at that time? Like, what were the artists that stood out to you and made you lose your mind about this shit? Oh man, this is starting with Run DMC, LL Cool J, you know, the whole era that 80's sound, that Def Jam was pushing out and Public Enemy, that Eric B and Rakim, you know, that whole

era, man, everything Marley Marr was doing, just having my hands and hearing video music box. watching the videos and seeing everybody from Houdini, Dana Dane, and all of them just start coming with all different than Slick Rick. I was it. That was it. It just kept elevating. And it just started off real simple and just kept elevate. Does it ever irritates you or feel a certain way that the mass majority of the artists

that you probably work with right now have no knowledge or appreciation of the shit that you grew up on and the problem is going to get worse the long you stay in the game? Yeah, because, I mean, we took away a lot of the part of the art that I I respect, like I'm a vinyl collector, so I've been buying vinyl since I was a DJ, waking up 13, learning that not just owning hip-hop vinyl, but getting sold and pop and rock and all different kind of bands and start collecting it. So I had a love for records, credits, who's doing what, the producers. I had a love for that. That was like a passion for me. So for me, you know, learning who was in a part of an era that I didn't live was a part of that passion. So I'm knowing

who's in the 70s doing Motown and production and all of that. You know, David Porter, everybody that's doing shit back then. So that was just how I came up for the love. They're missing that because they don't get credits. They don't got a CD. They don't have a piece of nothing to read. Spotify, hardly give real credits. You know, it's just producer and that's it, writer.

It doesn't give you the whole real story. Even the attitude, like when I started doing these podcasts, so much of the stuff that I was excited about that people were excited about was like random shit bubbling up on SoundCloud and everything. And now a lot of times when you look at rap fans, it's almost like they don't feel like they have the freedom to like music that isn't popular yet because so much of the music ecosystem has to do with Spotify essentially like co-signing your content to get it onto playlist and get it respected by the mainstream.

And sometimes I see that and it's kind of confusing me because I grew up always being so excited about rappers who really were not commercially successful. I just fucked with them. Finding them on live mixtapes are all different kind of sites or actually getting a mixtape in the streets, which they took away the actual tangible part. So now it's all digital. You got to go search. But how do you, like, have you always felt like you were able to, like, fluidly maintain

your taste in hip hop even when you listen to a Bobby Schmerter, he's not doing anything that would qualify him as a top rapper in a previous era? Yeah. But there's something about it that everybody, like, well, everyone knew when they 50 wasn't the biggest lyrical, so it's about the talent, the star that sent him from the energy that they put in the music. Bobby came with a hit on one song. And then when we got in the studio, I seen that he had it in him. So you know you can make more once you see that.

And I think for me, it's about changing with times as well, because you can't look at what you did in early 2000. And now the late 2000. So for me, I had to evolve and then find something from the South, big crit. Sound fine, big two chains. You know what I'm saying? And just find other talent like, like, Yo, God, even work with them. and then be able to elevate where they at to new levels. Because I learned from Dre and them.

So there's certain things that I learned that I think I could pass on too. You know what I mean? Just in the studio. It is crazy because it's like when you think about what your business is, it's like you're at the fucking roulette table and you're placing bets on all these different artists. And then it's like how long do you want to hold on to that bet and continue to try to fucking make it work?

Like have there been, and I'm sure there's been tons of artists that you put very significant amounts of time into that didn't work out. or you realize at a certain point like I give up it's not it's not gonna happen yeah no I could probably count on my hand about four that many so you are

super selective of the artists yeah I'm very selective and I promise you two of them probably because they went to jail you know what I mean like shit that I don't ask like you got prize I just in and life catches them or they get into some shit while they're in it

because they really in the streets and then that shit catch up to them or there's ones that just ended up just not wanting to be superstars and then just figured they wanted to do music but didn't know it takes some real work So I've seen it from both sides. But the question for someone like you is like how hands-on do you get?

How I get-in the music? All the way. I mean, I make music. I'm a producer first. That's what got me in the game. Right. So if I'm not actually giving you the beat that you're making the music too, like we started with, and half the music I do, I do at least one track on every album, right? So if not that, I'm finding you the best beats. So if I know I don't got this sound and it's like you need that extra turn up shit, I got to go down South Farnham, somebody, I'm gonna find them and we gonna bring that to the table.

So I get involved from the whole thing and then if it's like you ain't making the right hook, I'm gonna find that person too. Right. You know, we're gonna get that going on too. So we're making the whole song and then we're gonna mix it. I'm gonna mix with the engineer right there and make the song. Well, when you have to go out and find beats for artists, how frustrating can that be when they don't necessarily respect your vision in terms of what production is worthy of them getting on? Well, I used to do a producer conference, one-stop shop.

So I used to bring over four or five hundred producers. all in one building. So I had my pick of the litter from everyone from here to South Africa making beats, like Australia here in the States. And at that era, we developed some of the best producers that's now, like Jake 1, Ilman, you know what I mean, S-1, they all came out there, Kenai Finch, and they were new guys, and now they're top producers right now. So I've always been in touch with producers and the producer community. That was important to me. I mean, you get in the studio with somebody like Bobby Schmere for the first time, but do you have to be careful about how much coaching or how much you want to get involved in the beginning part

because you have to build that relationship. And you know, you don't want him on day one being like, this motherfucker just told me to rewrite my verse. I've never rewritten a verse before. No, we're not doing that. We're not doing that kind of A&R. No, actually what I'm doing is I'm following the template. That first beat was Jalal Beets. Yo, call Jahlil, get him from Philly, get him back over here, let him deliver another one.

So I'm keeping what the foundation is already telling me. And even you stay with the same producers. The guy that did computers, have them bring some more beats. And then you kind of keep that energy going. You just kind of put it in order now. I feel it. The only stuff, I've always been in the studio and thought about diving in there and just giving my opinion about shit.

But usually the only time I'll really go for it is when they're fucking something up grammatically. Like when the sentence sucks. And it's like that's not, like you are not trying to say it like that. The way you want to say it is this. but for some reason it flipped in your head. I find that really important and really frustrating. Or when they're really trying to overload the verse with syllables,

it drives me insane. Yeah, I know those type of rapers too. Cilibulibals, serious. Trim it down. Cilibals serious. Less. Less syllables. I mean, that was the great thing about 50 is that, like, you mentioned it before,

but he got a lot of shit for not being lyrical. At that time, we might now kind of look at him and be like, He don't really seem that different from a Jada kiss or a Stiles P in terms of as a lyricist. But at that time, he was slowing it down and spreading it out and it was different. That's right. Putting a little southern accent on some of the records so you can relate, you know. He knew how to do it with the voice and everything. Did you think that New York or hip-hop as a whole is going to have a learning curve in terms of how he was rapping at that time?

Nah, I just knew that he was a universal one. Like, I could see it. I could hear it. I've been listening to everybody, you know, seeing Biggie and Jay come before him and nods, so I knew where this was going because he was making shit like Wainster in my basement. I'm hearing it before they're hearing it. So I hear like, yo, you sound like you from the South on this record. Like, I knew it.

Wankster made sense to you right away? Immediately. You're like, this is it. Oh, shit. This song's huge. Crazy. Crazy. I believe that for sure.

You know? In high school, you was the man, homie. Do you remember that moment? What was the energy in the room at that moment? shit man we all looked at each other like god damn man we got one we all know that guy yeah we all know that the coolest guy from high school is a fucking loser now yep and they're seeing us right now thinking they was the man back then facts you know um okay but so what would you define as the thing that made you unit not work in the long run because it was going so good for the first however many projects

you know like the banks project the bucks project the game project they're all the like legendary albums. Maybe Tony Yeo didn't necessarily, he wasn't meant to be this huge star, but his project still did fairly well. But then, like around then, it felt like things started to just crumble a bit. What would you identify as the major cracks

in the foundation that made that inevitable? I think the way I put it is you could have a lot of a little or a little of a lot. And I think 50th thing, he wanted it all. So he just, chose everything, right? But those little pieces that you give out me, banks, everybody else that's eating adds up to a big, bigger pot, right? So it's kind of better to get a little bit of a lot and then everybody eat, then we all come up and they follow that movement. So it immediately

started being a friction because everything was about money and finance and being cheap technically, you know what I'm saying, and just wanting everything for themselves. Instead of knowing, like, you feed the whole crew, everybody's going to come up. We're going to keep going. And when you take out, yo, Shah, I want this to myself. And then you get it to yourself. Now you got a lot of a little because now it's nothing. Because no other album came out after I left,

except for the one Banks did. And I was in the basement with Banks encouraging him that he could do it and keep coming. We did Beamer Benz and Bentley, shot the video, everything, and got it together. And then 50 came in and then, all right, I'm behind it, right? But that kind of stuff you don't see because it's sweat equity that you don't count. because it's things that people do behind your back that's actually promoting things to move forward

that you don't hold value to. You know what I'm saying? Because it's always about I'm the boss. I'm the man. I'm the rich one. You know what I mean? So that kind of thing got in the way and you couldn't see the value

for the little things that was around you that actually moved the pieces that actually made the move. Right. Like Buck was on a Vlad interview recently where he said that a big part of the issue with him was that he would go out in public. He's got people that want to be cool with him.

He wants to be cool with him. He doesn't feel like. Like he has any reason to be hating on some other rapper that he was probably in his room listening to a couple years ago. And 50 was just like really not okay with that idea. And, you know, I've run into that as a, I feel like almost anybody, if you're running a business, you're going to run into that way. You're going to have people you're cool with that you work with that are at least on friendly terms with people that really do not support what you're doing. And that can be tempted to really be like, I don't want you conversating with this person.

I want you have nothing to do with them. But there's a certain level where when you're the boss, you have to, sort of let the people around you have some degree of freedom. You can't expect everybody to really fall in line in that way, right? Yeah, not because you don't own them. You got to let them be them, right? And that was an issue. I felt like Che Guerrera next to Fidel. Like, we was on our own island. Seriously, I couldn't deal with anyone. And half the time I produced for someone is because we entered two. I worked with Snoop through pimping. And then I got a track or two on his album. Certain things, juvenile. But it was always because I had to deal with people that he wouldn't

trip out. Because he had beef with a lot of people, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So we have to be careful with that because it would irritate them in a space where it just created a bad energy and then we couldn't move forward you know what I mean and like the modern template for how you are a successful rapper is that you basically like work with a lot of people work with outside people you get features from artists that's bigger than you etc and 50 at a certain point he was like oh I don't want to I don't want to put random ass girls and help them out singing on my records I'm gonna get my own woman and have her sing all the hook so it can be all g unit internal so he profit off of everything. And that probably, I don't think that that, I think it insulates you too much.

You can't just be this island. You have to be able to mix and mingle with the rest of the artists, right? You got to give out so it could come back. It's all about that. Were you around for the magic stick drama and why there was never a video for that and shit? I did the track. Shout out to Phantom as well. So we did that in my basement. G. It was actually for Trina first. Right. And then he was like, something happened where we connected with little Kim G. Robeson reached out to me. Shout out to G. And then I said, yeah, I got this record. 50 got a record and then we sent it to him. So it was literally that record was planted through A&R,

someone reaching out and then we had no ties to her. Okay. So when she had a team, there was a team that was a little bit of more aggressive at the time than what 50s used to dealing with on a business side. So certain things just started to clash. You know what I mean? There was an aggressive manager, an aggressive people on the other side,

just trying to get things that he wasn't with. At that time, he was the top dude coming. So you had to work at his pace and on his schedule. And then he just decided, I don't want to shoot a video for this. Just let the record be out. And he made that call, and we ran with it. So it wasn't necessarily that he had any animosity towards the artist.

No, definitely nothing with him. It was love. It was always loved there. But she had a team that was just handling business a certain way that at the time it just wasn't good for us. Interesting. That song could have been a lot bigger, huh? A whole lot bigger.

And it made it to films and all that. You know, I'm seeing good royalties, but it's still like it could have been bigger. It could have been bigger. So you still get royalties on all those songs. You were involved back in the day, huh? every one man I'm like a royalty collection firm man I ain't playing bro I know how a lot of people ain't getting their money so I make sure you know and even if it didn't recoup I still want to see the statement so I know at least it's going to be somewhere in the next five years and then

it'll recoup so you comb through that shit every month every time man every time it comes in I open up a company just to collect for the hip-hop because so many people that's not I'll be sitting in rooms and talking to certain producers I'm like yo you can get your money off of that that we did back like nah what the fuck are you doing bro you better get you better get you your money. Right. So you got to know how to go get it too, you know? Definitely. Yeah, so it takes a lot. That makes sense. Yeah. Especially like, could you tell us like how much you made in like 2020 from like a particular song, ballpark area? Like, like is that? Because I imagine like it's got to be kind of like you're like just like it's like you hit the lottery like 20 years ago, but then you keep getting like

the payments ever so often. I could tell you this, that off my royalties alone, I don't have to work. So I could literally live off of that. But I choose to keep. keep going and do other things to make more money on top of that. But that's what kind of fucking amazes me sometimes when I'm talking to people who are already completely solidified and they don't have to work, but then they still choose to really grind and really like put themselves on the line on a regular basis. Like where do you think that that comes from? I love making music.

That's my favorite part. I hate the business. I hate a lot of this exact shit and some of the like shit that go with the business. But I love making music and work with new talent that's dope, making music that I know is going to move the world once they actually get a grip of it. So I love the music aspect, like really being in the studio making music. Right. But at some point, the beats became less important.

You've started to feel more okay of being like the maestro and not the guy literally getting in there. When I got with chains, I knew I couldn't do some of those beats that he was looking for. So I knew you had to go find the next guys and other dudes. And he had guys in Atlanta that he was picking beats from. So you just got to know your space. And then at certain times, certain artists that do fit you. You know, like when Mac Miller called me and we did 100 grandkids, that actually worked.

He was looking for a sound that I actually get with. And I could do so we matched together and made that record. I thought it was a dope record. And rest of peace of Mac Miller, you know what I'm saying? So, like, certain things like that, I know I got to step away, and that's not for me, and then I get it from other people, and that's where everybody get to eat. And that's why reciprocity keeps coming back to me.

You were with Tootchains pre-Duffel bag boy or after? As he, no, I knew him. Buck introduced us. He was actually my weed dude. Like, every time I go to Atlanta, every time I go to Atlanta, that's who I call for wheat. So I knew him from that space.

Like, I didn't even, like, the rap thing came after when I saw him pull up one time in a Porsche. You love seeing the drug dealer win. Yeah, shit. I love that shit, yo, this shit is the streets. You love seeing that true, you know.

Yeah, so I'm seeing them like, yo, what the fuck? You got a Porsche? Like, I ain't even got a Porsche and this dick of driving a Porsche. So I've seen him hustling in the hustle mode, and I've seen them with the bag and, like, living up to,

even after the rap shit, quieted it down. he still had everything looking like he was going. So I was like, yeah, that's right. He's a winner. And then he passed me the tape that had the record on it that ended up starting to buzz for him, the riding record, right? And after that, I went back up to state to New York and went, it's like, yo, this tape is fire.

And then I had, you know, talk to the internal team like, yo, we should sign two chains. I think he's not really signed to this deal no more. And, you know, he's still got some politics. we got to work out and let's try to work it out with them and for them and we did it. Yeah. And we got the deal done. He brought in something that was totally different at that time, which was, in my opinion, it was very much like a sense of humor where he was aware of the absurdity of some of the

things that he was saying in a way where like prior to him, I felt like rappers very rarely represented the fact that they kind of knew that some of their most ridiculous boasts are ridiculous. And he, like, he knew it. And he was, like, playing with those things in a way that I hadn't seen anybody do before. And that was a big change. That was a big change. And he knew how to hit every pocket.

Like, if you're looking for a lyricist, you'll be able to know that change is a lyricist. If you're looking for that funny, like, what the hell he just said? Like, you just talking about, like, some different shit to get your attention, that's changed. So he know how to appeal to the audience just by what he used with the pen. I remember him getting some reviews at that time when his first project came out that were like, the most I've ever felt in my life of like, holy fuck, you do not get it.

Because they're treating it like, oh, like he's doing these stupid boasts, these stupid like jokes. They're just lame. I'm like, they're not lame. They're so funny and over the top.

That's right. In a way that I'd never really seen a rapper to do before. He's super witty. And if he speaks to him, you can tell like, this guy is a class act, man. And you still work with him?

No, still cool with him. I ain't work with him because I left FJM and I, you know, I ain't been producing for them, but we still were hunting. You had any heartbreak over the years having a boom between labels and all of a sudden you're not involved with a rapper that you really had love for?

I think that was at that moment when I did leave Def Jam because I was excited with what Crit was doing, what we were building. So Big Crit, like literally I found him before he put out that first mixtape and that was like really a discovery for me. So I was excited about that and then two chains, when that started going, he was taken off. So L.A. Reid went to Epic and, you know, he saw me actually doing what he brought me there to do. I was turning it up over there. They were saying Def Jam back, hashtag. Like, that went away when two chains came because he brought it back. So the energy was coming back and now here he's bringing up some shit.

And when I left, it was like, all right, L.A. elevated me, which is what we want to do in this corporate ladder to keep climbing. But at the same time, I was winning there and I had to leave two of my two winners. So that was the most hard part for me to have to do in my career, truthfully. Definitely. Yeah. How do you empower black executives to rise to the top of these record companies when so many of the people in like the biggest positions of power? You know, a lot of them are extremely talented, but they're not necessarily of the culture in the way that somebody like you is.

Like how important is that to you and what are the things that need to be encouraged to help people realize their capacity in that regard? It's real important to me. I mean, for me, I see, you know, since the Black Mob matter and all that stuff, stuff, start. It was coalitions created in the industry. I'm not sure what they're doing. You hear about that, but then the follow-ups, you hear a little less. Yeah, it's just like Black Live Matter. You give them a big check, they shut up, and they're not really for the cause, right?

They just, you know, getting shut up. So for me, I'm just looking at it like, all right, there's a count, and it's like, you want to balance the account between the executives that's in the business, actually helping these artists groom them, such as me and other guys that's out here that's actually playing it from the outside, right? And then you look at the new generation and you know, and like, all right, they paying them less to keep them in the building just for face value, but they're not actually going to elevate the business. So it's a disbalance, right? But those guys are going to eventually get it, but it's just not in this time.

And the guys that actually could get it and actually be chairmen. L.A. Reed was the blast black chairman that I knew of the music business. The only other chairmen that are black are the ones that own their own labels, but they're not chairmen for other corporations. Right. So here L.A. Reid is gone, and he was the one I looked up to because he got me into deaf chairman and into Epic. So I always respect him because he's not only helped a lot of brothers, he made and took pride in that. You know what I'm saying? So you don't have an executive or someone that's in a power, a position, to know that you've got to carry on that type of thing to make sure that you're actually employing, finding other minorities, whether they're black or Spanish, and helping them come up.

And so the guys that are in position are just happy to be there. They're not actually moving the fucking needle. Right. You know what I'm saying? So that's the disconnect that's happening right now in this industry. And then the chairman's got to actually, I've seen, I'm really happy to be there. to see what happened with Dallas, Dallas, that just said Atlantic,

they gave him a label and gave him a president chair and like, here, you run this. That's what I like to see. And that should be more of that, you know? Shout out to Tubby, the same thing. He's about to do his thing. So it's certain execs that are getting in that position. Now it's them that got to do what they know we got to do.

We got to help bring more brothers in and help them grow into this business. But it's kind of weird, too? Isn't part of that, like, having to basically explain to somebody how to be more corporate, how to lessen your personality? so that you can fit in in this environment?

Truthfully, a lot of us, there's no educational requirements in this business, right? So nobody's coming in knowing like, you gotta do this or this is what you gotta, you gotta take responsibility. And hip hop is the most less, I don't wanna take responsibility industry in the game, right? Right. So the executives that are in it have to take responsibility.

And they have to, like, I've been in programs that Sony took me to call fast forward, where it actually advanced your mind as an executive. So you understand, you're not just here to sign talent, you know how to deal with numbers, you know how to deal with, communication and how to deal with the company.

And find that you can rise in the market share by being an executive, but not everybody get that opportunity. And it's not, even when I went to fast forward, I had to fly to London and do it. I was the only brother there. Right. So it's like those little opportunities you don't get, and it's not available to everybody. So you got to be able to help those people when you do get those opportunities. Definitely.

Do you feel like you, like, were you ever, like, do you feel like you are fully capable of existing in that kind of corporate environment because I feel like when I look at somebody like you know the guys from QC or something you could imagine that they could have probably like got label jobs given how good they apparently seem to be at their job and risen up in that granted they're from a very different background and shit but why would they want it it makes more sense for them to just do their own thing where they get to just be themselves and have their own culture and everything instead of having to necessarily go fit in in a label they build their own thing and then let the label come and that's their dynamic which works for them

which is great. But then certain people like me, like I've been spending a lot of time hiring people for monthly retainment that actually say they could do the job and can't do it. I don't want to go through that. You want to be in a corporation where everyone is getting actually fired. If they ain't doing their job and you be able to be accountable as a boss to make sure that they, when this marketing plan come together,

product managers doing this, digital's doing that, promo's doing that, and R's doing that, and have that team internally. Instead of trying to find kids, you've got to hire and eventually figure it out. Right. I'd rather be in a structure where you know that everybody's doing their job. And if they're not, you can call them out, fix the problem, and go to the solution mode. For sure.

How depressing do you find it that you have to be concerned about, like, your artist songs getting on TikTok? Actually, they're blowing up. TikTok blowing songs up. So, I mean, if they get there, I mean, it's a good look. But you've been in the game for a long time. It's got to feel kind of ridiculous. It is ridiculous. It is, man.

It is ridiculous. But I'm like, yo, I'm liking a few songs myself. So it's like, I, it's the replay. competitiveness that creates that energy that they just get into it. So it's like that's the new marketing. Hey, we gotta kind of get into that too, you know. But I'm always getting emails from labels and shit, trying to be like, oh, we want you to interview this artist.

And it's, they have the number one TikTok song of the month. And I go to look. They got no fucking followers. Nobody gives a fuck who they are. Yeah, that's corny. That's got to be one of the biggest problems for artists now is that you can have a huge song and still not be famous or successful at all. You just have a huge TikTok sound.

It's true. And I don't look for those. I look for the real talent, you know, so I'm never looking at your streams and your numbers. I never signed you over that. I signed you over that. This is going to be a movie. Like, I can see the real story. And that's what I look for.

Bobby and Roddy get out. How do you think about what they should be doing right now? And, you know, because it's like you, there's a big risk of over exposure, you know? They could put out, you know, two mixtapes in the first two weeks they're out. And it's almost like you've then given up all of the goodwill. that built up while you were gone for that long, if you overdo it with the music and stuff. Like, what's your advice to them?

Or what's the game playing? I was so happy to see them come home, man. I mean, I was thrilled. And I know that they put in a lot of time and Bobby, his dedication to Rowdy and serving the extra time, I shot him out for that. So for me to see that, I'm just excited to see him home. The pressure, you know, you got to let them kind of actually

get into the studio to make some songs before. It's all about pressure and coming straight to the world and make sure you pick the right record, you know? So I'm happy he didn't come out with a record already because that means he's taking time, figuring out who's the right studio engineer to work with that's gonna record him like how we set that up, or who's the right producer that's gonna be giving them

them beats that he need that's right for right now. You know what I'm saying? Because it's a different time. So now- You might have a lot of energy on your first day out, but I always think like an artist would be way better off making a couple dozen songs or something before you. Choose from a dozen. Pick the one, you know?

Not just from two or three. And I mean, even that short period time, I have to get a lot of records to get get that smirder she wrote EP out of him. And that was the little six months that we had to do that. And it's like Bobby take his time in the studio, so you got to give him that time to do that. And you can't

rush him. So I'm watching the label and everybody like, all right. I'm going to see what they do with this. I hope they do them right, man. And that's all I want, man. To him just go and do his thing. Were you involved with the Bobby 69 collab that I assume is probably not looked upon so

happily these days? Right? I forgot about that. Because he's in prison. He's like, how the fuck did that end up happening. Yeah, somebody had a vocal, man. The drives was out. Somebody gave six. Oh, it was like that. It wasn't a homies probably gave.

No, but it was a jail verse, right? Oh, it was? I think so, yeah. Were? Oh, yeah. Yeah. See, I have a drive. I never leaked nothing.

I got songs. I think it got deleted, though. I think it got deleted off YouTube at some point. That's good for 6'9 because he knew how to stand next to everything real to get the energy to keep him going. Before he got his Fed case, what was your perspective on him as a New Yorker who presumably cares about how. random Brooklyn rappers doing and stuff.

Like, what did you think of the energy that he was bringing before the whole snitching and the Fed case and everything? Yeah, I couldn't believe it because I just didn't look real to me. It never looked real to me. It always looked crazy and I just didn't understand how he was able to do that. But when I watched the documentary, seen how he was able to use them and they didn't know understand what they were going through. That's an eye opener to everybody. Right.

You better be waking up right now because the motherfuckers is out here, vultures. Yeah. And that's a vulture right there. And he was able to get through and actually complete the job. Yeah, he did. That's true. Do you think his career will ever really recover? You think it's done?

No, because the shit he did, it just can't. You got to go out like a champ, man, and he didn't. It still blows my mind every time I see one of his post pop up on Instagram, and I look at it and it's got 7 million views, and I go to look at the comments, and it's no rappers, no people in the rap industry, nothing in the comments. It's very strange. He just exists because the opportunities for everybody now. YouTube, anybody can be in.

Before hip hop, you had to get through, you know, native tongue. You had to get through those different tribes to get you through the industry, you know. And now it just put it up, you know, and he's just a part of that now. Definitely. Bobby and them really kind of like started, in a lot of ways, kind of started like the whole Brooklyn drill wave that has kind of like been slowly building up over the past 10 years. How do you feel about that energy?

How likely is that sort of energy? Because we see that drill thing popping up in all kinds of cities all over the world in England and I've seen videos of drill rappers in Ireland and all kinds of crazy shit. It's almost like that is a template that people are very comfortable with of listening to guys rap or a specific type of production

about basically who they're beefing with. But how do you view that? And how likely do you think it is to turn into like a real music career for some of these guys? It's starting to turn. I mean, rest in peace, Pop Smoke. He took it to a new level, man. And when I listen to his records now, I literally feel sad that he's dead because I love his music. You know what I'm saying?

And I feel like there's other guys, Fabio, that can actually advance just like he did. It's not only the drill rap that they need to do. They can find some other beats that's going to cater to the other audience like Pop did. And that's what you got to slowly do. You get in certain ways. and then you kind of expand it, you know, once you got their attention. I think for Bobby and for me, it was about finding the artists in New York and bringing back the energy New York was missing.

Because from having that energy with G-Unit and knowing what the real to be on top of New York felt like, I was missing that feeling. So I was like trying, I'm with Yo Gotti. He's like, he's from the South, but it doesn't feel the same when you're in New York because he's not a New York rapper. So I'm looking for the next one. I'm thinking it was Troy Ave. I'm thinking it's this guy.

And it's like, nah, there's none of them. And then when that Bobby came, I felt like he was that one. he was and he opened up that gate and then everybody came and after and then he had to do his time so now it's time for him to take the crown put it on and do his thing that must have been rough for you to like you know because you work with artists and the fact that you you saw that high with junior unit and you know years and years of just it being one of the biggest things in the game and then you know you're always wondering in your head like if you're going to feel that again and then with the bobby thing you had that but then realistically it was only a couple of months

before it kind of got shut down that that shit fucking was up because for two reasons and I want to say this so clearly because the industry screwed me on this one right so here I am always find a talent you bring me in this find the illest talent so y'all can make money this guy you see 10 what five million on the single three million on the other one gold on the on the EP he did this and he's going to do more right and this is what we're here to bring right so with 50 soon as we did that first number jimmy's like hey we're going to give you your labels hey y'all start your label right you'll start your label right and this is what we're here to and do the G unit stuff. You get rewarded for the success, right?

So here we are. I'm thinking this is about to happen, and then that happens, right? Not only does he go to jail, I get fired. You got fired. I got fired. Wait, what was the reasoning? That's what I'm saying, right?

There wasn't. They just, like, this is too much right now. We're going to have to just change things up a bit. Now, I'm sitting here trying to fight for the next kid on the roster that was still signed in GS-G-S-9. His name was a Billion. I'm still trying to get things in motion

because Rowdy had a record were too short that I just did. That was a smash and had Bobby on it. So I'm talking to the label trying to get it going, and they're like, shh, this guy's talking too much. He need to shut them up. So it was about silencing. Wow.

And putting the fire out. And I was a part of putting the fire out. Wow. Because when I walk, I represent the artist. If I'm telling you to sign somewhere, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to do my job. I'm going to commit to doing it. So I still was trying to get them going, even while they was in jail. Right.

And it was all about, stop that. Oh, so when you said that you... I was pushing the wrong agenda. But you said you haven't worked with a label since then. That's why. Because they want the danger and the allure and the street shit up until it becomes a little too real. Until it's right there in your living room. But how the fuck are they going to judge you for just bringing in the shit that they wanted you to bring in?

But that's the industry, right? And that's what they know how to take and give you what you want and you get shit out of it. But that's got to be the ultimate disrespect that just made you like, I can't work with these people like that anymore. It's a fucked up game. Wow. I mean, the world needs to just know that, though. But you just got to play the game differently, you know? That's crazy.

Yeah. Who's the artist that you really like almost had, but you didn't get it, and it really kind of hurts a little bit deep down? Everybody, no, I'm going to say Jay Cole, man. Oh, okay, I didn't you know that. Yeah, shout out to Mike Rooney. He's from my hood, him and his uncle, Corey Rooney, 50 was working with, you know, back in the days I knew them.

So he was able to come to 50 crib and all of that because he was family. And one day he came up to Connecticut, we in the basement, and he brings some kid. He's like, yo, Jake Cole. he played a record, y'all was going crazy, man. So you knew. I knew it. Wow, okay. And that became the first mixtape that dropped that he blew up off of him, but I knew it.

So I was waiting for, it was late at night, so I'll wait for 50 the next day to holler at him, and he didn't see it. And I had to go to him and it was his, you know, G and it, oh, let's sign this. Like, this is what we need to do. Right. And that's not the direction he wanted to take. Wow. So what do you think that he didn't get about it?

He just, I mean, it is like a polar opposite side of rap. At the time, I think he didn't understand the wave and that everything was gangster rap. You know what I'm saying? So it wasn't no street shit. So he didn't understand that this was a wave coming. I knew it. I seen it and I heard it. And I was like, this kid is going take it. And he just didn't hear it. He didn't see it. That would be such a fascinating part of of Jay Cole's career if he had like a little G-unit stint. No, the funniest part is 50 you ended up on one of his albums after. Oh, did he really? Yeah, he did like a hook. So when I seen it, I was like, look at that shit, bro. Ain't that something, bro? It's like

motherfucker, bro. Just listen to me, bro. Because all I went, I brought young buck to the unit. You know what I'm saying? Like I brought them certain people to the unit that brought energy and brought a balance. Even when Game was in the studio in L.A. Like with Drake, I was the one that Mike Flint brought him to me and I was the one that brought him to the unit.

So I'm always in between the artists coming up and knowing how to be able to be that smooth communicator to bring it together. And that's how that West Coast, G-Unda-West, G-Unda-South, and the growth of the G-Undt. Shout out Spider-Look. Yeah, shout out to Spider-Look. That's what 50 brought them in.

You know what I mean? But I was looking, you know, I bought Buck, and that shit, was like right, you know, right timing. History has made out the 50 versus Kanye album sales battle to basically be like a deciding factor in hip hop's fate. Did it feel like that at the time, or is that just kind of how people choose to view it now? They choose to view it now.

At the time, you know, I was like, yo, Kanye fucking coming. I was at the Grammys. He was right there. I'm like, oh, this motherfucker coming. Because he went from looking at him just as a producer to, yo, right now he's standing right next to fifth he ain't talking no gang-sha shit of nothing so but his energy and he was around a lot of places that I would like if I'm leaving dray studio I see Kanye coming in so I seen this growth of someone at the time so when he got to that point where he was standing total to toe to the fifth

I couldn't believe it bro and it was because you watched the growth for him grow so fast without that kind of story and it's like the car accident happened and then all the other shit just and then he was just right there toe-to-to-and he was bringing it he was bringing it he did bring it And he came up at a speed that was a lot faster than what the speed was, the 50 came up just because technology had changed and everything. You think 50 was like really fundamentally not ready for the fact that the world was going to view somebody like Kanye who was not a gangster on the same level as him? That's the same story with Jake Cole because he didn't think that that that type of hip hop would actually come right and just keep going. You know? And that's what he did.

That's pretty crazy. Yeah, Kanye kept going. It's kind of a classic story of being like so entrenched. and what you're doing that you can't see what's coming. It's coming, not. And that's, but me as a music level, me that's been buying hip hop since the beginning, seeing the evolution, I'm knowing what's next. You know, you know what's going to be some conscious that need to come in.

You know, there's too much gangster shit going on. You know you need some fun shit going on. So you know the evolution of hip-hop. But do you feel like it's different now because it's kind of like all the sides of hip-hop are allowed to coexist where you have all this like fruity bubble gum shit? And then you have like the most gangster shit. and it kind of all can exist at the same time because hip hop, like, fan base-wise, is so fractured now.

It's not like when it was the radio and the, like, when 50s, like, on MTV all day, that's MTV saying this is what hip-hop is. And programming. There's not, like, an ability for you to believe it's that many other things when MTV's how 90% of people to watch TV are taking in music. That's true. And hip-hop can't be programmed as we used to programming. There's only MTV or BT jams or MTV music or your MTV Raps.

You can't be programmed like that. So actually it's better now because you've got a preference. If that's not what you want, you can just keep finding those discoveries that lead you to more artists that it's in that pocket. And it's good, you know, because not everybody, everything is for everyone. But Shaw Money XL stays in the streets. I'm in the streets, man. I'm outside.

We're here. We ain't afraid. We're loving it. Do you think that you were the guy to guide Jay Cole's career to where it's at now? Or was that not necessarily in your wheelhouse? No, I wish. I wish. No, actually I would go back, play the tape every day, put the homie.

on I seen it like I knew it and then I heard the story of how Mark Pitts heard him and then when Jay Z heard him the same day Jay Z signed him the same day like there was no let me go home and let's think about it like he actually did a deal so the fact that Jay Z felt that same feeling that I was feeling I didn't have the power to do it at that moment that's when I started saying I that was the beginning of my energy in it as well because that's that's something that would have elevated G unit to this time right now so then I went on to death jam and did it for them and and kept going you know I mean but that could have

all been in one house. Yeah. You know? Definitely. It's been a pretty wild career you had. Yeah, man. We barely said anything about Mobbdee. I know.

Rest in peace prodigy, man. Rest in peace prodigy. One of the first rappers to ever come in my crib. Like, when I'm in the basement, seen me fucked up, broke, trying to get beats sold. And he was dead. Rest and peace. Yeah, rest in peace to pee.

Are there any rappers that come to mind that you do not have any business involvement with that you listen to out of your own free will at this point? Like what's some stuff that stood out to you? Man, it's for one, Kendrick Lamar, my top, top, top five. And then there's a lot of new artists that I'm vibing to. You know, Benny the butcher and the Hope was Zelda and B.S. Shout up Benny, yep. Yeah, they're killing it.

You know, I love that. Still crit, I'm still crit, and there's a few other things coming, coming from the South that I'm digging. Definitely. You know, new artists like Chubbs the Dreamer. Okay, I got checking out. Yeah, my boy Jovian, it's in the building. You know, it's a new generation.

of dope music that I'm seeing and I'm about to like let you out here it. It's coming, man. And got some coming out of Ohio. This kid named Sandy Benjamin. Okay. And shout out to my boy Teddy Andreas. So we got a few dope artists that are Teddy. Yeah.

And he's out of name I expect that. Yeah, I know. But they are here. They are here. And Teddy, I'm pretty sure you cross past. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

So, you know. Crazy. Yeah, man. It's inspiring, man. Much respect. You saw the vision, I think, of what the game was to become quite a bit in advance. and you're in the position you're in because of that. And it's very inspiring.

Thank you, bro. And I thank you for having me on this platform to be able to get the story out. And let them know, nobody jerked me, man. Everything you learn in life is about wins and lessons, not losses. None of that. Even if you learn from it, it's a lesson. You know what I'm saying? Not a loss, man.

That's real. Shout out Shyamoney XL. No Jumper. Coolest podcast in the world. Check us out on YouTube, SoundCloud, iTunes, like, like, comment, subscribe, and nojumper. com if you want to support. Appreciate you, man. That's right.

Thanks, bro. Love.