No Jumper - The Spencer Cornelia Interview: Fake Gurus, Calling out Bandman Kevo & FreshandFit & More

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

Youtuber Spencer Cornelia talks about his journey as a content creator, sacrificing his social life to make content, exposing "fake gurus" and more. https://www.instagram.com/spencercorn... Stamps by https://www.instagram.com/nicholasosp... ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat SHOW LESS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world. And today I have one of the top YouTube gurus out there. You're going to take that title? Guaroo. Anti-Guru is what some people refer to me as. That might be more appropriate. The anti-g guru. Yeah.

That does have a ring to it. Okay, we could rock with that. Yeah. Spencer. Cornelia is in the building. Cornelia. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Just want to make sure that we're... I get a lot of Cornelius. That's what I was thinking, too, is that's kind of like what my brain goes to. I just want to make sure it wasn't like a silent us or something. No, nailed it. Excellent. Okay, so let's get a little bit of the backstory.

You're from Georgia? I am. Okay. A little town called Atlanta. Okay. Metro Atlanta, which is hilarious. I actually wanted to bring this up first. We have a lot of people from Atlanta in here, but probably from a slightly different background.

That's what's interesting about this conversation between me and you is I feel like we come from two totally different backgrounds. Where I grew up, not many tattoos, tattoos weren't allowed in the household. Marijuana is illegal. It's like really bad if you do it. And you come out to L.A. and it's very acceptable to have tattoos and smoke weed, and it's a very different environment. Definitely.

Yeah, we got Spencer in the trap today. It's official. Maybe I'll walk out of here with some tattoos. Oh, yeah, we can make that happen for sure, yeah. Well, I don't know if you saw it. I was on Graham Stephan's podcast, and he added on the thumbnail he added some tattoos. Kind of gave me a little street look.

Yeah. Do you like that? Maybe look tough. A little bit of danger. Here's what I'd love to do. I'd love to A.B. Test a Tinder profile and see how I'd do without tattoos versus one with tattoos. I would love to see that as well.

That would be fun. Yeah. And maybe I could do it with Photoshop. No, I think that's a great idea, yeah. But they're all going to be like, aren't you that guy from YouTube who talks about gurus? I watched you last night. You didn't have any tattoos. Yeah, right?

No, it's all men that watch my channel. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too. So I've got to figure out how to get some more women to watch. Yeah, I mean, you should cover the makeup industry a little bit more, maybe. That would be a good start. But that's the thing, women have their own media on YouTube now, so they don't need men to, like, tell them the news. They got their makeup channels, their T channels. They don't need us.

That'll be my first hire, then. I get someone behind the scenes who writes the script. here's the info on the on the on the makeup business I guess so your your parents were were super strict what was no we were conservative but that was the area was it was middle class in Cobb County Georgia okay and some Metro Atlanta so kind of the northwest part but it's the prototypical that you'd see on on movies and whatnot just the typical white suburbs middle class right it was nice very very good upbringing I'm that's like one thing I'm very fortunate of is I've moved all

throughout the country and one thing I've seen that I've in my life that I've become very fortunate and I realized how fortunate I was is to have two parents that stuck together, very healthy household, never raised a voice to my parents, never cursed at them. That was just the way we grew up. And then to leave that and go to places like Vegas and other and just see that other people didn't have the same upbringing, I realized how insanely fortunate I was. Wow, really? That's super interesting. So, yeah, your parents, did they raise you to, to what, just be super focused on school? They have you doing a lot of extracurricular activities.

Absolutely, yeah. Oh, if you didn't go to college, you were a failure, which I appreciate that now. you know, that's, college is a different viewpoint now in a lot of people's minds, but no, we were for sure, you're going to college no matter what. But seeing that now from other households, I feel very fortunate in that, you know, that was, it was anticipated that you went to college, right? It was kind of forced on you. And the path ended up working out for me. 100%. So what do your parents do for work? Dad's a financial advisor, which plays well into some of the content I make. And then my mom's

been a fitness instructor for years, for basically her whole adult life. But it allowed, we had a very healthy household, right? We've got the dad that can go out and earn money to provide for the household. The mom was always around anytime I needed anything. Right. It was always there? Amazing. And I feel very fortunate for sure. Wow. Yeah, that's great. So was your dad teaching you about investing your money and how to be a person with a good financial portfolio from a young age? What did that look like? Absolutely. It happens, you know, it doesn't sit you down every day. Look, son, you need to invest in stocks. Right. But it comes out, right, over time. And just there's little tidbits you know you're a dad now you're probably going to give little nuggets here and there

well that's what i'm trying to work out of my head is like how do you sort of teach your kid about business what are those conversations like i spent a lot of time thinking about what i might one day be telling her yeah and then you read books i'm sure and they tell you x y and z and then you have the kid and it's like oh wow real life is different yeah my kid is 10 months so we haven't really got too deep into the financial conversations yet but i'm just like picturing what that's going to be like because you know when you talk about college it's like do you want to get your kid interested in education period but then at the same time i really want to you know guide my kid in the direction of entrepreneurship as well and kind of show her both paths it's probably

a tough balance i'm not a parent but that's going to be a challenge i'm sure that you'll have to battle with is what's best for the kid yeah right maybe maybe starting a podcast is it the best for her yeah no i've been thinking like you know i just want to start like a little business for her like as she's real young like she can make stickers she could have a little a little merch line you can make t-shirts you know we could just do whatever like i like whatever the the early entree point, that's one thing I'm kind of excited about is to kind of make it seem fun to her. Yeah, you could start with anything, maybe lashes. Yeah, really?

You've got maybe a T channel. Natural, yeah, natural. Talk about the kids in your school. Start an Instagram dissing all the kids in school. That's too funny. That is a good idea. Okay, so you, throughout high school, what were you interested in? What did you find yourself leaning towards?

Baseball is the thing. So my dad was real successful golfer. Darnier pro. It was very borderline professional. And so I was growing up around country clubs and I would play golf. and then at 12 or 13 I made the decision. I was pretty good at baseball, and I realized with golf you had to really respect the sport,

and you either have to practice. You have to go on Sunday afternoons and practice, or you're not going to be good. It takes that level of dedication. Oh, yeah, because remember golf is a single person's sport. So you have to force yourself to go on Sunday morning, Saturday morning to go practice. You can't be playing all the time.

And so I determined that at that time baseball was the better path. I actually played in college. Really? Eventually played in college. Where did you go to college? I started at Katapa College, which is Division 2 in North Carolina. Okay.

outside, Salisbury, North Carolina, so outside Charlotte. And then I finished my college career at Georgia Southern. I didn't play baseball down there. I went down and party. Okay, nice. I got the part of me. So you were done with baseball by the time you went to that second school? Yeah, correct.

What was that realization like? I talked to so many people that go through so much of their life, thinking that they're going to be a football player, a basketball player, et cetera. And then at some point, there's just this sort of realization. I'm not top 0.01 in the world. Yeah, it happens, right? You start looking around. We had guys that got drafted on my team in college.

You start looking around and go, oh, not as big as him, not as fast, not as strong, not as good. And so I made the determination to go. And I knew from a young age in college that I really wanted to get out the college experience while I could. I didn't want to be this guy at 28 going and partying and not really have your life together. And only focusing on drugs and alcohol, I wanted to do it in college, get it done, enjoy that period while I could. Okay. And so I did get some good party in college. Absolutely, man.

I used to throw huge parties in college, which is hilarious that my persona now is this, I'm the most square guest you'll ever. have, I promise. I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do have that from time to time. Yeah, but it's funny. Yeah, I used to throw huge parties. So I would invite people and then I started making jello shots and I would set the party for Friday or Saturday every single week. And it became a thing with like a Facebook group. And this person would come and enjoy it enough and then bring her friends and the jellows shots would always attract the women. It was free jellos shots for everyone only for the women, right? And then you would bring the girls and then, of course, the guys would follow. And in my four-person apartment, we'd have 40, 50 people every weekend.

And then on Halloween, we'd have 150, 200 people. Wow. Crazy, right? So was this your first foray into business where you're actually making money off this? I wasn't making money because a terrible business guy in college. But no, it was the business of partying, baby. It's college, right? Okay, but were you like, you know, you're starting to say like the value of creating

this really strong social network as well. 100%. One thing I was proud of in colleges, I was able to be around a lot of groups and fit in just fine. I could hang out with athletes. I can hang out with kids that didn't like sports. I could hang out with the swim team. I could hang out with people who were engineers. You know, I felt like I could fit in fraternity groups.

So I felt like I could kind of socially mend or, you know, move throughout different social groups pretty seamlessly. That's interesting because I feel like the insecurity of only wanting to be around your particular niche is like a big thing that holds a lot of young people back, that they just don't really feel like they are going to be able to go be around different groups of people. When I think about it, you know, the lunch table politics when I was in high school and shit were so intense. that like, you know, being somebody who is able to sort of bounce around between groups,

that sounds like, you know, the makings of somebody who's going to be successful, maybe as a politician or something. I think as a person, it's the best way to go about life, too. If you want to develop into the best person you can be, right? For someone like you, very different background, I think you were into BMX and, like, action sports, that was not me at all. Right. You probably like music that I can't stand.

Probably. But that's good because when you get around those people, you can understand them, understand where they come from, understand their issues in life, understand that they probably have the same problems you do. They might look differently. They might come from a different background. But you can find that a lot of people have a lot in common. And I feel like that actually kind of goes well with my content now. I feel like I've tried to really understand different groups of people. I've lived in Georgia. I've lived in Florida, Alabama. Alabama is much different than Oakland, California. And so when you get around two different, very diverse groups of people,

you can start understanding the world a lot better. And so I feel like a lot of people aren't really interested. You're more interested in getting that like a echo chamber, right? That's why you watch the same news channels. You hang out with the same people. A lot of people. But if you do want to, if you do want to grow as a person, I think step one is try to get around and force yourself to be around different people, have different conversations and try to understand them first as opposed to sharing your beliefs. I always feel like the biggest thing success wise for me. All my success was like I knew about blogs in the early days, you know, 2004, 2005. I was very tuned into the hip-hop blog world. And then also I knew a ton about BMX. So I realized very early on, I could.

can be the guy with the biggest BMX blog with this. I was listening to Joe Rogan and had all these different podcasts I was into and I realized like, oh, the rap podcast landscape in 2015 was pretty dry and that there was a ton of underground rappers. Nobody was touching. And if I hadn't already been early tuned into the podcast world, then I never would have been able to make those connections. Like if you're a really smart business guy and you also know a bit about hip hop, well, you're in a perfect position to sort of insert yourself into the business life of a rapper or somebody like that. You could very easily start to be prosperous lending one of them. You know, if you can speak authentically to the culture that that person is from, you're probably going to have a huge,

a huge advantage. Agreed. And generally, the best ideas come from the cross section of two totally different things, right? So maybe podcasting, I don't remember exactly, it may be podcasting in early stage hip hop, right, meaning the artists who haven't quite blown. That was your connection. Who connects those dots? But it did because you had all this experience that played right into the, it's almost like a firecracker, right? You put the two right things together and boom, you have a really popular podcast. And even like this interview right here, it's the fact that I am on YouTube watching all kinds of different content that probably there's a million people who are going to see this interview and be so shocked that me and you were having a conversation and they're going to click. But that's kind of the magic is like, you know, if I did interview like some famous beauty makeup guru or whatever, I mean that overlap of audiences is.

what really can kind of blow a piece of content up, I think. Agreed. I actually would love to get to a point where I could talk to people I've critiqued. So those are interesting conversations to me. That's why I like to bust people's balls. Because I think that creates a lot more interest in a conversation. Like a boring conversation is like, how was your day? Oh, it was good.

How was your weekend? Good? No, it's like, hey, I saw you parked outside. Do you want to learn how to park? You know what I mean? Like critiquing someone from the start. So the same thing with the internet content. Right.

Right. When you critique people, it actually creates, in a lot of ways, constructive criticism, right? And good feedback. So anyway, I find those to be conversations that interesting. For sure. Okay, so what did you find yourself gravitating towards academically while you were in college? Or how was your brain starting to think about what you were going to do once you were done? It's so funny.

Back in college, I didn't want to work. Like, the idea of work was just like, whatever I have to do to not work. I was really, I wouldn't want, I don't think lazy is the right word. It's just I didn't see the value and going and working for someone else. And so I just did sport management degree. I was an athlete, so you do sport management, right? That's the easy degree allowed me to not spend much time studying. I played video games and party.

It wasn't until probably 2012. Are you familiar with like RSD in the pickup community? A little bit. You're kind of familiar with the dating niche. Well, okay, back in 2012, there was a kind of idea called PUA, this like pickup stuff where you go out to the bars and get better talking to women. Because I got the game that book back in 2008 or so. And that, like, I was going through a really bad breakup at that point.

And so I got the game. And that actually really helped me a lot to sort of like, get my mind state back at that time. So I've always had a little bit of affection for the pickup community, even though a lot of it obviously is the cringiest shit on Earth. And you don't find that book

when you're having threesomes. You're not done with a threesome, and you go, oh, the game, let me read this book. You usually find it in a different point. This is a pre-threesome area in my life for the most part, yeah. Yeah, so anyway, I found that about 2012,

and by the way, I'm the same way. A lot of that's really cringy now. But at the time, it worked because in that book, I think it was that book, it had this concept of reading a bunch of books from different disciplines and improving yourself in gaining skills. It was kind of this idea of skill acquisition.

So it wasn't until 2012, 2013. I started going out to bars and nightclubs all the time with the intention of getting better at dating women. At the time, I was really poor at it. So this is when I stopped drinking. I went out to the bars sober, which is what they preach in that community. And so I really focused on self-improvement,

and I really like this concept of reading books and gaining more skills. So it wasn't really until then where the idea of education really sparked within me. And I think that's how it is in most times, right? You give someone, you force someone to read a book, book, they don't enjoy it. But you find that they're reading maybe BMX books all weekend. It's like, okay, they like reading. They just want to read the right stuff. Yeah, I feel like that's one thing

that the pickup artist's community is, is correct about is that like a lot of people's issue as a guy, if you are having a hard time talking to women, a lot of times, it's because you really don't have anything to talk about and you need to just actively pursue more interest so that you can, you know, be able to have an interest in conversation with a woman or with anybody else, which in and of itself, Like, I remember looking at pickup artist forums and seeing guys being like, I'm thinking about getting into Taekwondo so that I can, you know, have something to discuss with women. And I'm like, this is such a weird reverse engineered version of what it is to be a human being is that you had to go to this forum to tell you that you need something interesting to talk about to make women interested in you. But, you know, if that's going to get you where you're going, I guess it can't be too bad. Guys will always reverse their engineer way from getting laid.

Right. Get late is the outcome. Okay, talking about Taekwondo would be cool. I need to start Taekwondo. Right. That's a lot of guys' behaviors. Definitely. So did you find that that really like increased your ability to speak to women or increase

your confidence in general? 100%. I think that was the most pivotal time in my life. And I very confident, even though a lot of people, a lot of the people that enjoy my channel actually bash RSD now. But I speak confidently about my experience with them because of how pivotal that time period in my life played within me. because what happens when you go up to the bars sober is you're confronted with reality every single time you talk to a girl.

And a lot of times it's about you, right? You go up and talk to a girl, hey, how's your night? Bad reaction. Just I'm not interested. That's a reflection of you. And so night after night, you're constantly getting rejected. You face a lot of, even the most successful guys. My buddy John Anthony has got, I know you called him out for 10.

That dude has been going out for years and has had, you know, the amount of experience is 100x. his lay count. Right. So you're getting rejected 99% of the time. And so it kind of forces within you, how can I improve? And that's that time of period in my life, I was forced with that rejection constantly. And I know guys can go the ugly way where they take a lot of rejection and get, go down the bad path, right? Or either violent, depressed, whatever. I took it the other way and saw it as a way to improve myself. And yeah, the end goal is to get laid. But let's be real, it's like on the path, it's self-improvement. How can I become more attractive? How can I gain more income how can I gain more internet clout for lack of a better word right because that stuff

matters you can get laid just off clout that is weird because when I was learning about the pickup artist stuff back in the day there was no internet clout so the idea that like your followers mattered and shit like that was just like not really a thing I remember I moved to to L.A. in 2010 and that was a very like strange realization like after a couple of years it's like oh fuck like we all have a score attributed to our name on Instagram that tells everybody how important we are now. And yeah, I didn't really have to deal with that back then. But now, I mean, obviously, that's a huge fucking factor. I have to ask, blue check mark, if you were single today, how much of a role do you think that would play? If you were pursuing like a girlfriend or

have some fun dating. I mean, I definitely think it gets you noticed when you're DM in somebody. But I would say it's like, it's got to be the total picture these days because, or the total package, because I see people all the time that like might have 200,000 followers, but then they get shit likes or they have no real comments, et cetera. And it's like, I think Now people are just so naturally adept at being able to sort of figure out what somebody's actual social worth is as opposed to just looking at the number and just following for it. Yeah, it's kind of ties into my content. How many people are really following them?

How many of those people are paid for? Right. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, I've found so many people on your channel or through Coffeezilla, et cetera, where I'll go and be exploring their YouTube channel afterwards and being like, how the fuck does this person have enough confidence to be going out and acting as if they're a guru? about anything.

Dude, it's a hustle in itself, man. These people are making so much money. I know. Dude, you run like a real business and you're like, oh, man, the hustle, the grind, the pain, the risk of taking on loans. Oh, no, you just go on social media and you find out you can make six figures with a three-step book. Right. Or I was watching somebody, fuck, I wish I remembered his name, but there was a kid I was watching

a video about the other day who just completely presents himself as if he's some, like, genius stock trader. When you actually watch his videos, he's like 19, unbelievably awkward and never at any point professes to have any sort of expertise or knowledge. He just like, we'll show you a number on the screen and be like, I made $14,000 today. Like the people who fall for this must be so breathtakingly stupid that like he's really just aiming for the absolute bottom niche of society. It's unfortunate.

I try to stay. I do think part of it is dumb, but I do think a part of it is where you're at in life. So when you're after a breakup, right, you can be. be an intelligent guy. Right after you go through a breakup, some guy pops up in your ads, hey, don't ever experience a tough breakup again. You're more immune to certain messaging. And so I think it's a lot of people at a certain stage of their life where they are more open to certain messaging. So I wouldn't characterize them as dumb. I mean, certainly in regards to staying away from scams, that skill set isn't within them. But I mean, I'm sure there are

plenty of dudes who are, you know, very capable. And like, if you give them your money, you're getting like the better version of that information. But there's also so many people who clearly are just like creating this image and then just only appealing to the absolute bottom level people who haven't even done enough research to figure out that there are better people that they could be paying attention to. Yeah, I'm a grammar Nazi. And so I look through emails sometimes and I'm just like, this is a second grader wrote this. I've been told by multiple people that sometimes they believe they have theories that it is

on purpose because the people who can't spot all the obvious like copy paste double. it's the same text twice the people who won't catch that are the people they want signing up which is kind of interesting This is a really dark world by the way So like on the surface it's like Okay there's some gurus and ha ha they make a few bucks

But this stuff gets really ugly A lot of it's really taking advantage of people And right now I feel like The social media landscape is the Wild West There's no police force And in my belief I think there needs to be I feel like that's what you and guys like

Coffee Zeller are doing which is like super valuable Like even six months ago, it was so common to see people doing these crypto pump and dump scams and a lot of like bigger celebrities. And I think that you guys have helped create an environment in which now there's a lot more knowledge about this. So it's a lot harder to get away with that stuff. I'm sure you're still going to see people doing it. But I don't think you would necessarily see like a post Malone or a Kim Kardashian who's done it in the past getting involved at this point just because they're scared of the outcry. People are more educated now. Yeah.

It's going to be really interesting to see my channel and his over the next few years. because my goal has always been, I would love to have, obviously for selfish reasons, Joe Rogan type impact. Wouldn't we all, right to have that kind of, so sure. But it would be nice to get to a level where you make a video about someone, that thing ends. You're like, hey, this guy's scamming his, you know, this crypto scam, he's scamming his followers. And it's a big enough video that it stops. Coffee Zill did this with Save the Kids, by the way. Right, yeah, no, definitely.

It was big enough where it got the attention of, I'm not going to say his name, but I know of a very big YouTuber that called him about it. Really? Yeah, yeah. Like very big, like a household name. And so I know it reached some of the bigger names you've heard of. Have you ever made a video about somebody and felt like you were then witnessing their entire career collapse? And have you ever felt a little bit of guilt about that? Always.

I'm a very empathetic person. Really? It's really tough. I made a video last Friday where I exposed that someone, I'm not going to speak too much about it, but basically she is an escort, basically. Okay. And I felt kind of guilty because she reached out to me at threatening lawsuits and whatnot. And the video got taken down by YouTube. And yeah, you do feel a sense of guilt because.

Because you never want to say something wrong, right? If you came out and said, so-and-so committed this crime, and it ruined his reputation and you were wrong, how would that make you feel if someone did that about you? Oh, yeah. Right? So I always feel that way. I would hate it if someone made a video about me that said something illegal, you know, I did illegal crimes, and it's false, and it ruined my reputation. So I always keep that in mind.

So I always try not to do that. But seeing a degree of professionalism that you have, I would think that if you were talking about somebody being an escort in a video, that you probably would have to feel pretty confident that that was the case. I have proof. Yeah. But anyway, moving on from that one. Yeah, other videos for sure. There's been a few that people have reached out,

and it's a little awkward because you just, I don't know this person and you make a video about them. Right. Kind of slamming them. And then they reach, and now it becomes personal, right? Because when it's just someone, some influencer you're making fun of it's across a screen. It's not personal. What's interesting about, like, somebody that used channel is that when I think about

like early era H3H3 videos, which everybody was watching religiously at that time, it was very much like them sort of calling out people who were just cringe. Like, you know, they would call out pickup artists or just all these sort of weird people, weird YouTubers. That's sort of like morphed into people like you who are kind of taking on people who are actually maybe doing things that are maybe not, actually, maybe not technically illegal, but you're kind of like filling in the blank space where the legal system hasn't necessarily been able to, you know, like a lot of these crypto-pumben-dum scams.

I feel like, you know, five years from now there's going to be people really going to prison for this kind of stuff, but the system isn't really set up to make those judgment calls right now. Yeah, when I say police force, I'm not looking at there needs to be some social media police that goes around and cancels people. That's not my intentions at all. My whole thing was always, I just want to bring awareness because I feel like a lot of these schemes, people aren't filling in the blanks, as you say. So I went from zero to 100K in sales. It's so easy. And then I actually bring about how you actually do it, or here's the difficulties in what they're saying. And in some cases, here's what they're not telling you. What we're seeing right now in social media is there's a lot of gray area.

So what you're explaining, the crypto scans, these are fraud. This is like criminal behavior. I don't generally go after that because those are hard to find stories. I've been doing a story every Friday that's involving fraud. And so that one's for sure on the criminal side. But what we're seeing is just a lot of the gray area, fake guru is what I like to call it. Meaning it's not enough to be a criminal case. I'm not going to get lawyers on it, nor do I think they should be canceled and sued.

Fresh and fit your guests are kind of, I fit them within the gray area, right? They make claims like they've been late a thousand times with absolutely no proof. They can teach you how to pick up all these women. They have this DMs on demand course where even in the sales copy, it's Photoshopped images. So that's not, I'm not saying it's illegal or they should be canceled, but people need to know that maybe they're not quite as good as they sound. Fair enough. Okay, we'll get more into the gurus and stuff, but I'm interested in your early business history. So you graduate college and what is your mentality?

What do you go and do from there? I was clueless, man. I still remember this. Christmas of 2012, I went to my grandma's house. Very, very nice house in Hilton Head Island. And I had a cousin who was just about to graduate law school from University of Texas, and he was about the same age. And I get in the car leaving that event.

It was like Christmas time. And it was, oh, you know, so-and-so cousin's doing so well. He's about to graduate law school from University of Texas. What are you doing, Spencer? I just graduated. I don't know. And so I did internships. I did an unpaid internship with Florida State University,

the athletic department. I had no idea what I didn't know what business meant. I didn't know what a job meant. Like I didn't know anything. I was in sport management. And think about it with sports, there's a limited number of sporting teams or a business. You could be in any different department.

It's a lot like being an athlete professional in the first place, where it's just so few jobs. It almost seems kind of bizarre that there are real, like, you know, entire colleges that are based around preparing people. I think of that whenever I knew somebody from high school who would be going to school to become like a radio DJ. And I'm like, there's got to be like 80 of those jobs. jobs in this country. What the fuck are you thinking? And if none of these guys are leaving or

retiring, how does a job going to open up? And I had no entrepreneurial spirit. I did not come from like an entrepreneur family. I didn't even know what to meant to start a business or anything like that. So I was lost. I just, I looked at the landscape and said, okay, I need to work for sports. I have to do an internship. Thankfully I was fortunate enough to be able to go down to Florida State, do an unpaid internship with their athletic department. And then I did a $500 a month internship with the Birmingham Barrens, which is the AA minor league affiliate team to the White So at that time I was just trying to get my feet wet and I was just trying to get in to get some type of job and so I was willing to take internships and It was brutal man right that industry sucks like it really really sucks. So if you think about when do sporting events get played

Nights weekends holidays when are you working all the you're not only working those times I was in Yeah, I used to work so after that I ended up going to working in sales tickets for the Houston Rockets the NBA team And you work all day trying to sell tickets well then the games at night and then you're working the game Wow It's a grind, man. Yeah. And you're making, a lot of these jobs you're making, now, sales is different because you have commission, right? But the other, you're making $35, $40,000 a year.

But that's kind of what being a YouTuber's like, too, right? Yeah, dude. Write all day, film all night. I don't know what your schedule's like, but. It's a grind, man. I don't have a setup like this. This is it. This is the one person.

No, I need the setup around me because otherwise it's like I wouldn't be able to do 12 interviews in a week if I had to also be worried about the editing or the thumbnail or, you know, all these million different pieces of the puzzle, yeah. You wear a lot of different hats when you're a one-stop shop YouTuber. Yeah, definitely. You don't know. Hiring people is like by far like the hardest part of growing a business like this. So like you'll probably get there at some point, you think? I would hope so. Yeah, I'm starting to get there. My bandwidth is tap. So to really answer your question about YouTube. I do think people are interested in this. But yeah, YouTube, that's all I do. I'm on YouTube all day. I'm so like in the culture. I'm paying attention to news. I have a lot of people reaching out. Hey, this guy's a scammer. This guy's check out this story. So there's like a filter, a natural filter. Part of my job is idea creation, right? So when someone sends me something, I have to filter, is this worth my time to even look into? because right now I'm at three videos a week, which clear as day, YouTube, three videos a week is like the gold mine. I have six X my income since February.

Wow. So you feel like three a week really like hits the algorithm perfectly? Yeah. So Graham Steffen has been a huge influence in me. I was actually on his podcast recently. It was a really cool moment. And he does three videos a week. And so I just reverse engineer.

This guy's making however much he's making, why don't I try to implement what he's doing? And so I did three videos a week. And I'm at 24, 22, 24,000, 24,000. the last three months. And this month, I'm 18 to 22. I like that you're so transparent about the money and everything. I would never in a million years. I've known, well, it's a lot different once you start hiring people, for sure. But no, I've always been transparent just because I think in our culture, a lot of men battle with getting judged for the income. And I think a lot of people judge each other. I don't, I literally don't care about like what, I care what people think, like we all do,

but I don't have this like image to uphold, which I think a lot of people do on social media where they got to be, especially in the guru space, you need to know I make a million dollars a year, right so if they found out how much you actually made right i think that's just like kind of built into my head because as a kid that was just like the one thing that you just didn't talk about my parents tell me you don't talk about how much money you make and you can talk about politics but you can't be aggressive about politics you have to stay in your laying out you have to be polite to some degree that's my parents talking which is a that's been a different adaptation to our current landscape in which everything is political and everything is a fucking everything's polarizing yeah 100% okay but

rewining a little bit again so you start going through through all those internships and stuff. What do you then, did you ever end up getting a job? Did you sort of break out of that before? Yeah, Houston Rock. Do you follow the NBA much? Okay. But I know that you have like encyclopedic knowledge because I've heard you just

busting out of talks about trades and I'm like, holy fun, this guy's in the zone. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. So with the Rockets, I worked for a year. I was an inside sales rep. I didn't do well enough to get promoted full time. And so my job would be over when the season concludes. They had James Hardin and Dwight Howard at the time. They were looking to be a playoff team.

They were first round playoffs. They played the Portland Trailblazers. And they lost in game six. Damian Lillard hit a game-winning shot. So if they, my job was over when the season ends, Damian Lillard hits a series-ending shot to basically end the season. Right. I think you're quasi-following.

Basically the- Celebration. A good thing happens. No, no, no, no. Terrible. Oh, a bad thing. The opponent hits a game-winning shot to end the series. Oh, okay.

And so I'm watching my job end. So anyway, I had that job. And then I went a couple months of being unemployed, and then I went up to Oakland and worked for the Oakland Athletics, the professional baseball. team up there, which was a full-time job selling season tickets. And it didn't take long before I figured out that not for me. How does one sell season tickets?

You're just like on the phone with rich people all day? Not even rich people, man. What made it really tough in Oakland is you call up people. So say you go to the Lakers game. One game. We see your information and we'll call you up. Hey, Adam, you want to come out to more games? I see you came to the next game.

Would you want to come to the next year? And you try to upsell them into a season ticket. Oh, nice. Okay. Tough job, man. Right. So how did you go about leaving? Oh, it was tough.

So I kind of saw the writing of the wall. I was probably going to get fired at some point, but I was really interested in tech. You weren't good enough? No, I wasn't. No, it just wasn't the right fit. I was ready to move on too. And I love this idea of tech. In San Francisco, there's like a feel to the city of being in tech.

And at that time, tech was hot. Man, all these companies popping up left and right. What year are we talking? This was 2015. So this idea of like venture capital and startup companies. So it was real hot tech and getting in a program, these guys going from college to programming and six-figure job in 12 months. I'm always thankful that I discovered tech crunch in like 2008.

And just like religiously. read it all through those early 2000s, and I took on like a ton of knowledge from just being sort of tapped into that world and could kind of tell that like this social media was going to become the future of everything. Oh, man, imagine if you had extra money then. Oh, my God. Oh, wait, this Uber thing seems kind of cool. Let me slide $1,000.

I always think about how many people tried to tell me to buy Bitcoin. And I was like, I have like $2,000 in the bank. I'm not buying Bitcoin. Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a tough part about investing, right? Everyone just, anyway, yeah. So that was in Oakland. And then I transitioned into tech.

I did this little 12-week boot camp where you learn how to computer program. Oh, really? And so I transitioned and got my job out in Vegas for a tech company and software development. Right. Yeah, so it was a complete career change. Was that hard to go from zero to something with the programming side of things? Incredibly challenging, man. But on the type, I just dive in.

Like when I want to do something, that's the only thing that matters. Like I don't know this idea of like balance in life I'm not good at at all. You give me one thing. I'm going to get really good at it. And that's all I cared about. But I got the job in Vegas. That's the challenge. That's the challenge as your YouTube channel grows and grows is that.

some point you will like hit a dollar amount where you're like you know what like I'm totally fine like I'm actually like really killing it maybe my mental maybe making my mental state better through finding some balance in my life is the number one thing that I can now do to make my content better I kind of hit that wall at some point yeah mental clarity yeah it's very important yeah I'm almost there okay so you move to Vegas and 2015 and and you're doing this job and are you are you content with this no I started my YouTube channel in Oakland California Oh, you already had it. Yeah, yeah.

I started it in January 2015, many years ago. And at the time, I saw this fitness world, like, really kind of exploding and this idea of creating a YouTube video and putting it up there and people start following you and you can make money. And so I just started it terrible. Oh, excuse me, my videos were awful. What were you talking about YouTube? So I used to do, like, fitness videos to start off.

And then I realized, like, right, I'm pretty self-aware. Like, you know how it is when you put something up and you see the people who are good and you're like, okay, yeah, I'm not there yet. Yeah. I mean, the fitness world is kind of like one of the hardest ones to get into because it's like everybody's on steroid. Everybody's on crazy shit. Like there's so much lying and just manipulation. Yeah. Well, I didn't have anything to stand out. Right. So I was just kind of an average. I was a decent physique, right? But nothing to stand out enough to get views. And I didn't know camera work. I didn't know how to make the videos, video editing and none of that. So I did that for a little bit. And then I got into talking about my programming boot camp because no one was talking about that. So I made videos on that. And then slowly like. figured out how to get to the point I'm at today. When did you start to really make videos that you felt were starting to connect and that you found like, okay, this is the thing I'm good at. This is what I need to focus on.

It was a moment, December 2nd, 2019. Okay. I know it exactly. At the time, I was really struggling with the, I'd house flip in Cincinnati, Ohio, two house flips that went to shit and lost basically all my money. I did see that video. Yeah, dude, I was panicking. Like, I had no money.

I was riding the bus. I didn't have anything. Like, I was having rice for dinner. Like, that's all I could afford. Wow. Dude, I couldn't even afford new shoes. Like, I had holes in my shoes walking miles every day. And so I was in a tough spot mentally.

And I wasn't there like creatively. But at the time I saw this guy, Coffeezilla and this video, fake guru Friday. I was like, what is this? So I started watching some of these. I was like, oh, this is interesting. You know when you feel like you're validated? Like you had a thought, but someone validates it for you. And so I always had a thought that these business gurus were not who they say they were.

And then I watched his. I was like, oh, that's comforting that someone else shares this thought. How about I look into a lot of these guys? And let me just do an objective of no, no agenda at all. Because at the time I had no subscribers. And so I wanted to start with some of these business gurus. And the first one was Dan Locke, who was one of the biggest fake gurus. And so the first episode was that, and I just made a video that I thought would be interesting.

And the views right from the start were clearly different. Really? Yeah, clearly different. And then the second episode was Robert Kiyosaki. Oh yeah, I've seen that one too. And there weren't really like intentions like, oh, I'm going to use this to use people's names and get big or anything. I just felt like there was a gap where all these people were going around teaching you how to be rich. I was like, I don't really feel it.

I'm very fortunate that I come from a family that there was money. And so I've seen what real wealth looks like. And this wasn't it. I haven't seen a video from you about this person, but I remember a couple years ago, my girl got invited by somebody to go along to a Tony Robbins seminar. And I found myself, like, I knew that I had a strong opinion against this. But I didn't really, you know, have the knowledge necessarily. And I haven't even really, like, dug in enough to, like, really articulate my why I,

I'm not feeling it. But yeah, I mean, I think that shit is important because you see these people who are just sort of like glorifying themselves and making themselves out to be something. I think they're like to have people who actually dig in and say like, oh, maybe these are the actual facts of what this person's life looks like. It was a very important role. Yeah, and I just want to bring awareness. That's all because I think in the social media world, there's a lot of mental health issues. And this gets talked about ad nauseum. But there's a lot of people that get on social media and they might be struggling in life and they see all these people, all these people having success.

All with the cars and the money and the flash. I like when you do this because I see you doing that video as well. I try to like bring him because if I just talk like this, it would be super boring. Because I've seen your old videos where you're like reading from the fucking notepad or from the laptop. And now you have the teleprompter. I can tell it's like so much smoother. I'm like, wow, that must have been a big step up for you at one point. Oh, huge.

Oh, man. Yeah, I used to like read off my MacBook and then try to reiterate in the camera. I used to do that as well. And then once you get the teleprompter, you're like, what the fuck was I doing that? Yeah. It's funny how you evolve as a person and as whatever you get good at in life. Like you slowly get little, and you look back, you're like, oh my God, people actually watch these videos and liked it? Yeah, I got a teleprompter. And then I was like, oh, so this is how everybody in the history of TV has been able to speak so smoothly. And I was trying to compete with that with like a fucking scrap of paper in front of me with a bunch of shit written down. Yeah.

That's so funny. It is a big difference. And even then, like, I still stumble over my words. I'm not that well spoken when I'm reading. So it's an edited version of what you see. But do you, have you ever tried to do videos just off the cuff without necessarily reading? Because I do really admire people who are able to. to like just sit there on Twitch and talk about a subject and keep it relatively condensed and fast-paced because sometimes I feel like I would just tend to meander too much of I was trying to talk about a story without a script. Mad props to those people. So hard.

So there's a few reasons why I don't. I've tried a couple. Part of it is the algorithm. I'm a slave to the algorithm and I do whatever's best for it. And watch time is really important. So the reason why my videos are so condensed, I don't add any like and subscribe at the beginning

because I want you to stay as long as possible. That is wise. And so. And you also end it. There's nothing at the end. I'm thinking, right? Adding in those things might get people to click away. So that's why I'm very, very concise.

And so part of it is, yeah, I guess theoretically I could try that, but I just don't see a benefit. I respect the audience's attention so much. And I want their attention to stay on my video so much that I do whatever it takes to try and not game the system, but in a way, game it. Right. But I mean, you see so many people that, you know, I see people who make 30-minute vlogs and I'll start to watch it and I'll be like, wow, this could have been a really

solid like six minutes or eight minutes and you know you see that with like you know people who've blown up like david dobrook where it's like he crams the four minutes full of as much shit as he can i mean people should just take notes from that like we would way around you're way better out building something that's condensed quick shows respect to your audience and doesn't you know necessarily just meander all over the place and take a half hour i feel the same way about my interviews where it's like that's my styles i want to condense as good a conversation into a good hour, hour and a half chunk and give them that to go with. I don't want to, you know, go on all kinds of weird tangents about different things. I want to keep it condensed. Agreed. No, I think that's a great

way to look at content is to always think from the audience perspective first and then how do you condense it as much as possible. Because there's probably people, at least it happens to me, where I know if it's a 15 minute video might only be nine minutes of good. I might not click. I don't want that to happen to me. I want people to say, you know, if it's 15 minutes, I know I'm getting 15 minutes worth. And definitely I have that feeling when I look at your channels. I have a high level of confidence which is very like underrated thing. And once you, that's

sometimes I've thought about that with my own channel. Like I've made like a few too many news related videos that were just too weak and that really like manipulates people's trust. I love when you see a YouTuber we can disappear for a couple years and come out and put out a video and everybody's level of trust with them is so strong that

it's just millions and millions of views even though they've been missing. That's like the ultimate level of trust for their audience. Agreed. When they know the quality's high. Yeah, definitely. Okay, so you start making those videos. The real estate thing, though, was that that went to total shit? Like, you basically didn't do enough research into the properties before you bought them, correct? Oh, this is a whole story. And you bought them on the other side of the country, too, which must have been a huge pain in the ass if you're working in Vegas, right? Yeah, Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm a risk guy. I love risk. And I'm willing to go all in. That's

just how I am. Right. And at the time, I couldn't afford to flip in Vegas. And I felt like there was too much competition. I saw some opportunities in Cincinnati, Ohio. I went there, did the risk, lost money. It did not go well. My dad did the same thing when I was a kid. He got at prison in 96 and he was convinced that he was going to become a real estate guru and he bought a bunch of properties like way up north in New Hampshire where you could buy properties for like extremely cheap. So easy, bro. It didn't really work out too great for them as far as I know. Yeah, but when you look back at that, what would you have been wiser doing with your money in terms of an investment? At that time, I would have house hacked. So that

That's what I'm good at now. Are you familiar with the term house hacking? Not really. It's basically where you buy a house. The theory is you buy a house and rent out the spare bedrooms to live for free. And so I have two right now. The two generate $8,600 a month in rent. Wow.

So that's like my specialty. I would have been way better off buying a five-bed house in Summerland, which is the nice suburb of Vegas, and just once a year buy a new owner occupied and rack up the retent. So you live in the house with multiple roommates. So you just sort of like keep it so that everybody steers clear of each other? You don't have problems in that regard? I have 13 rooms. I occupy one.

So one house is a seven-bed, five-bath house, and the other ones I converted it to a six-bed. Right. But does this also create a situation in which you're kind of like dealing with the politics of different people and how they get along all the time? Oh, yeah. It's like, it's like having teenagers. Yeah. So-and-so ate my food. It's like, oh, God.

How old are we guys? How do we? Why am I even considering dealing with this right now? I had a problem the other night. Someone left gum in the bathroom. And a girl got her towel on the gum and then like ruined the towel. And it's like texting. It's like, okay, guys, come on.

So there are problems. I'm a high school principal all of a sudden. Yeah, but here's the thing, man. Like maybe, maybe there's an easy way to make money out there. I haven't found it yet. And so for me, this is a avenue to make good money. And there's going to be headaches. And the headaches to me are, I would rather have those headaches versus headaches of other ventures.

Right. Definitely. So you clearly favor real estate over, you know, stocks or crypto or any of the other options that you could do with, I mean, it's a much more involved investment. Yeah, agreed. This is a very nuanced conversation because everyone's different, right? Like some people would never deal with tenants, whereas I feel like I can. And that's why I do this type of higher risk, former real estate, but it is higher profit. Right.

So I'm willing to take on that risk. So I'm very interested in real estate. I don't know crypto that well. I don't know stocks that well. Some people do. So, yeah, that's why I favor that path. Because I just feel like I've been in the game for a long time. I've taken all the headaches.

I've dealt with anything you can think of. I've probably dealt with it. I had a fire last night at one of my houses. A fire. Yeah. It's actually kind of funny to bring it up now. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm preparing the video for today.

And I have a deadline. I need to get to sleep because I wanted rest to be able to wake up and fly here today. And I got a call from my tenant at about 630 last night. Hey, the firefighters here. There's a fire at the house. And I was like, oh, my God. And I've got to finish the video to get it out today because I've been doing this thing. So there's a fire at a home that you own and you're still thinking about the YouTube upload.

I respect that. I was thinking to myself like, okay, is it a real fire? Yeah, the firefighter was there. And it was right near the gas meter. So they had to turn out the gas. And they put out the fire, thankfully. And then the Southwest gas guy showed up. and there were a lot of code violations that he found in the house and I needed to go and assess what was wrong and these are

probably a couple grand that it'll cost me to fix everything wow okay now thankfully the fire itself did not affect the house I just have some burn on the side so I'll need to repaint it that's that's not a problem but he did notice things wrong and that's just what happens in real estate man I like that you have that shit to talk about though because a lot of times with gurus online and stuff they will have the the business investments they talk about but there's just no there's nothing real for you to look at you know if somebody tells me they may be millions on crypto. It's like maybe I believe you, maybe I don't. But either way, it doesn't really tell me that you have any kind of expertise in anything. Whereas the shit that you've done with that, you put so much labor into it. I mean, that's like a real business that's generating a lot of fucking money for you. Yeah, the way I view it, I think I've taken a lot of the lumps up front. And I also think there's very few people that have grown on YouTube in tandem with the business failing. Like, I don't know many people that was like, oh, YouTube's doing real well.

And then all of a sudden, they lose all the money off the platform. Okay, so what would you say was the video that really blew your shit up? Or like, what has been the things that have really made your channel to skyrocket? Because I've seen you show your analytics and it's like, you know, you have that nice little growth. And then all of a sudden you have some videos just absolutely exploding. Yeah, the first one was about a fourplex I bought in Las Vegas. Every single thing I've dealt with in real estate is like an insane story. And so this fourplex I bought seller finance, which is basically you don't go to a bank, you go to the owner.

He finances it for you. 20 minute video. I shot it in the library because I didn't want to shoot it in my house. And so I shot in a library with like the AC blowing above me. And I was like, man, this is such a cool story. I wish I had like a cool setup in production and everything. And it was a 17, 18 minute video of just pure story. Right.

Fascinating story. I put it out. No one watched it. Okay. Wow. This sucks. I thought this was going to be the time for a video to really blow up because at the time I had like 200 subscribers.

No one was watching my stuff. And then all of a sudden I look and, whoa, a couple days later. Whoa, way more views. Way more views. And it was the first video that took off. Really? And it was one of these that all of a sudden it got 70,000 views in a month. month, which for me at the time was 100x more, you know, a thousand X more than I'd ever have

before. It's a beautiful thing how the algorithm will just decide to shine upon you. I don't know what it was. And looking back, the video is just low production. It's an interesting story. And I guess people related to it well. So that video was the first one where I looked at myself and I was like, okay, I'm not special in the negative. For the longest time, I was like, do I not have it? Am I not good looking enough or not personality? Whatever the factors are. Do I just not have it? And that was the first one that said, know what, Spencer? You're lying to yourself. You have what it takes. Figure it out. And so that was the first one. person was like, okay, I got to get back into YouTube.

Kick in a month or two later, I find CoffeeZilla, and then it's kickstarts kind of the path towards YouTube success. Hell yeah. And so, okay, when you sort of tap into the fake guru world, like, there's a lot of people out there who, are there a lot of people out there that you consider to be sort of like the legit version of that? Have you spent time researching people and ended up walking away from it being like, okay, they're running a respectable business here.

There's nothing for me to make a video about. All the time. Yeah, yeah. There's the fig guru world in my if you watch my videos you probably think it's like everyone because I'm only going after them kind of the bad apples yeah but no there's plenty of awesome people I just think there the world we're in with the social media you can build such a large business in the education space is way way less risk right if you're flipping houses you're taking on loans you're dealing with contractors you're dealing with buyers right agents all this stuff then when you go oh I can sell a course and make seven figures so that's why you're seeing a big transition right now into people into the education space because there's very little risk with darn near infinite upside. Becoming a guru is like the male reaction to girls becoming only fans models. Ooh, I never correlated the two. I like that.

I think that there are a lot of salty dudes on the internet, not that most of them become gurus, but there are a lot of salty dudes who it's like maybe you're 20 and you're making 20 grand a year and you're looking at, you know, the girl on the other side of town is making 10 grand a month and you're like, what the fuck, this isn't fair. And I feel like the realization, the overall realization is that if you run a subscription business or if you're selling information that that's a way better business to be in than pretty much any other business these days. And so I feel like now guys are trying to figure out, like, okay, how do I do the only fans thing without necessarily having to show my meat on camera

since that's probably not necessarily the most in-demand thing? Yeah, it's a gold rush right now. I see the income some of these people are making. It would blow your mind. It's absurd. And there's very little risk, right? How do they advertise? How do these gurus getting people to pay attention besides just making YouTube videos. Well, thankfully they do advertise because that gives me some content. That's how you find out. The problem is they get really aggressive

in the advertising, right? Because if I'm going to sell this product right here, it's cool. I enjoy it. It's a great product. Do you? Well, sure. For the plug.

This is something I don't partake in. Shout out to Empire Gardens. Yeah, so anyway, so you do this, right? And then the next guy comes up with Future and it's like, wow, this stuff, the high is for an hour. You're going to love these. This high is for two hours, right?

And then this guy's high is for three hours. And then this guy's twice the high in 10 minutes. And you see how it evolves. And the problem is there's no end, right? When you don't have police, right, in the financial space, my dad's a financial advisor, there's things he literally cannot say. Or else he'd get fired. You would lose your light.

There's licensing and there's certifications. There's none online. And so I now am making, let's call it 8650, I think is my gross income. I could talk about being a six-figure real estate earner, which I am. I've done it. I've done the hard thing. It would be so easy to start promoting. I can show you how to do it two of these three easy steps, no disqualifications. You don't even need money, you don't need credit.

Right. It's easy, man. It really is, yeah. Once you start taking away the disqualifiers, right? No credit, no this, no that. You don't even have to have a right arm. You don't need to have any sense. You can live anywhere in the world.

It's like, oh, wow, that applies to me. Well, no shit. It applies to literally everyone. And so they basically cast the widest net with this huge unsubstantiated claims. And then a certain percentage of that net falls through. A big part of me has a lot of respect for it because I have, I've spent, you know, a bit of time thinking, like, what is my version of a course? Like what would be the course that I could teach people?

And whenever I think about like, okay, what have I done with no jumper? It's like, well, this is very specific. This is very like, you know, a specific thing. And it would feel kind of disingenuous to tell people like, you can do the exact same thing as me. Obviously, I was lucky because I started early. I was lucky because I don't know. You don't talk about luck here.

Yeah, you can never emphasize the luck part. No, no, no. You had a tough upbringing. You had a moment where you were down in the dumps and you had nothing going for you. And you found the secret. But you're not going to tell the secret here. Don't say it. You've watched enough of these that you know the script to a team.

Yeah, it's very important that we don't. The three secrets are in the e-book. And then when they get the e-book, they'll get your email and then you'll, then you can buy the $1,000 course on how to start a podcast and in six months make six figures. Right. That's your business. 100%. I can see that I can see a ticking of it.

He's like, oh, damn. Because everybody has seen this shit at this point. But the thing is is that the average person doesn't realize that there is a whole world of it. So if you are only tuned into one guru, you think, oh, this is the guy, this is the guy. You don't know that there's like 50 other guys doing the exact same thing as them who you didn't happen to see the advertisement from, right? He's got my best interest at heart.

I love that guy. He's so nice. He's just, he's looking out for me, you know. Only today it's $500, but normally he charges $1,000 all because of me. It's so nice of him. Who do you look at it as the OGs of this sort of lane of work? Because when you think about somebody like Tony Robbins, I mean, he's been doing this for like 40 years.

And there's a bunch of other people like him as well, right? Yeah, if we're sticking to social media, I think Ty Lopez is kind of seen as one of the big ones. That was the other name that came in mind. What's wild, man, is you can see, if you go back and watch, I think Tony LaPray is how you say his name. And there was another guy, Tony Vue, Tony Vue, Tony Vue, Tony Vue, Tony Vue, Tommy Vue, oh, man, I forget his name. But all these guys, they use certain messaging. Christian McCorkel was another one.

They use the same messaging that they use today. It hasn't changed. It's pretty wild. Literally go back and watch the infomercials. It's fascinating. Wow. It's the same messaging. But Ty Lopez is kind of seen as one of the first guys that took this idea of personal brand and made it into

a business? Yeah. Right? It's this weird space where you're, you're the product, right? If I'm trying to sell this product, that's the product and here are all the benefits, here's the price, that's the product. But what happens when the product is you? Right. It's kind of a weird space, isn't it?

Definitely. And I mean, it's just pretty bizarre because there's no way for the average person to really differentiate between like the people who, well, I mean, I think that the media literacy is a conversation that needs to happen in terms of like the fake news thing. And then it also needs to happen in terms of people just sort of believing advertising in this way. Like there's so many people that you would think would be too smart for some of this stuff that are just clearly just falling for it, huh?

Totally agree, man. I've always been transparent. That's just who I am. I appreciate like honesty and real. And I think that's just lacking because a lot of these people have something to sell. They are selling you on the dream. And that's why they use the messaging they use, the reason why they buy followers on Instagram, right? It's all a system.

And this is carefully calculated. There are coaches, I'm sure. I don't know any specifically, but I'm sure there's coaches. is behind the scenes that set up the whole system for you. Buy the followers on Instagram to get the social proof. Once you have the social proof, then you start running ads. It's a whole business, man. So when I first went to DMU on Instagram,

why are you not on Twitter, by the way? I hate Twitter. You just hate it. You're on Twitter? Oh, man. I find Twitter to be probably the worst place in the world. Respect for having that knowledge without having to, like, get fully into the swamp and then having that realization, which many of us do.

Yeah. Oh, man, that's brutal. No, I'm, I very much dislike Instagram as well. But it has been a way to connect with a lot of people. So it's like, I'm incentivized. If you don't have either, the people are looking at you. You don't find myself going on explore and looking at all these hot Filipinas. And I'm like, do I really need to be spending time doing this?

That's definitely my explore page as well. It's like, how do you guys know that this is the thing that I'm going to click on the most? How the fuck did you figure this out? It's like random sports statistics and memories from sporting moments and then hot Filipinas. It's like, oh, God, they know me so well. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Okay, but so on, on when I went to message you, you had message me and it had been something about the interview that I did with Band Man Kevo. And I had like, I guess I alluded to having watched one of your videos. I think I hadn't like actually remembered that it was your video at that point. And then I realized like, oh, I had watched this guy's video a long as time ago. What, what's your take on Bamank Kevo and what he's out here pitching? That was a really funny moment for me. Because you know when you're growing on, I'd actually be.

fascinated to hear your side of the things, but like when you kind of have the moment where you're growing on social media. I'm the same guy I was a year ago when I was wearing, I couldn't afford new shoes. I was riding the bus four hours every single day to and from work. And I'm the same guy today. But now all of a sudden, like people are interested in me. And then you get on YouTube, it's like, wow, this really respected guy mentions your video. It's like, wait, he, he what? He gets on YouTube and saw my video. So when you mentioned that, I was like, oh, wait, really? You know, so I went and and watched it and I was interested to hear the conversation that took place. But yeah, I made a video on Bain Mankhevo, I used to make videos called Authentica Charlatan, where I would take these

gurus and just kind of give people a more, I think a more truthful and honest look at these popular social media gurus. And I feel like Bain Mankevo kind of fits in line there where he kind of promotes the dream a little bit. And I didn't even really say anything bad about him. I just kind of tell people's story. And I have a feeling he silences all criticism. I don't even know if he watched the video, but I do know maybe the legal team he pays or something.

They copyright strike the video. which to me I very much dislike. Number one, I hate people who can't handle criticism. I hate people who, no offense to Bama and Kevahua, but I hate people who abuse the copyright or the fair use shit. Like that's just, as a creator, you should just never cross that line. As a copyright strike too. And to be fair, I did use his content, so it was probably a little against fair use.

So I was never mad at him. I get it. Maybe he didn't like the criticism. I just would have appreciated it, like, reaching out, hey man, that wasn't cool. Do you want to take the video down? You said something wrong or something. But I just feel like he, at the time, maybe he's different. I haven't followed him in a while.

But there was stuff he was talking about owning a car dealership. And it's like, you could rent a Lambo for $1,500 a day and 30 days a month. That's $45,000. And three months later, you can have the car paid for. And it's like, is this the only business that has nothing going wrong? Do you not have a loan on it? Do people not wreck Lambos? Because you look in the news, everyone wrecks the, right?

If you're renting Lambos, that's just part of the business. And I felt like he kind of falls in line with these fake gurus where everything's easier. And everything is, I'm going to give you the best case scenario without showing the headaches. Like for instance the fire yesterday. Like I could talk about how easy it is to buy a house, rent out the rooms and make $8,600 a month. Nobody wants to hear that. I've had a tenant die. I've had to deal with bed bugs.

I've had to deal with, you know, tenants not getting along. I've had to deal with a tenant yell at my face. I've had to deal with cops. I've had to deal with emergency show up because of a, there's a code but for mental health. Right. There's some code where someone calls and they show up at midnight. Oh yeah, your tenant might be, you know, going to do something to themselves. So it's like, there's so much to this like business business.

in making money that is real. And I feel like he kind of fall, maybe he doesn't anymore, but he fell in line at that time with a lot of these guys who were just hiding the true reality of making money. And there has been some advice that he gives that's very poor. Are you talking about, because I saw a clip where you were pointing out that he was talking about a business that actually, now that I'm thinking about, sounds like the one that you were just describing

where you basically rent out homes or you buy homes and you get that sort of super low interest rate because you're buying it as like your first home or whatever. He's sort of saying you should do this over and over and over and all of a sudden have a fleet of a hundred houses you're renting out or something. What he was explaining is mortgage fraud. He would never be able to implement it, which is like on two sides of the coin you have, he's not only talking about mortgage fraud, but then another, he literally couldn't implement this model. So like he's wrong either way. I didn't appreciate that video because real estate is something I take at heart. Amazing community, man.

Real estate people are amazing, most transparent, honest, great working people. Very few people say that about the industry that they work in. Oh, interesting. I mean, like, I feel like in the rap world, you're not going to hear people. Rappers are all great. You're saying that, especially in such a cutthroat industry, that's really interesting to me. I run a meetup in Vegas, so I've met hundreds of people that are in real estate. I've been on the Bigger Pockets podcast, so I've had a lot of people reach out to me.

I love everyone that I've talked. There have been so few bad apples. So to have someone make a video explaining mortgage fraud was just, it was so upsetting to me. It was almost like if you were a rapper and someone made a video about, dude, it's so easy to get a viral hit. All I have to do is A, A, and C, and you're sitting here. you're like, no, that's not the case at all. Right. And even worse is you're explaining something that not only should people not ever do because mortgage fraud is not something you should, you should like joke about.

It's very serious. Right. And it's something I don't even think he was implementing. So he's promoting a way to make a lot of money with something he isn't implementing, which is being a fake guru. If I were you, and I wanted to point out this as being particularly insidious, I would say that the part of it that I think is kind of fucked up is like, if you're just giving super vague, you know, investment advice, but then you're also sort of like dressing it up with a bunch of cars and chains. And you're clearly like,

like all those same people that are fucking with Bamma Kevo could go to any number of real estate experts. But it's dressed up in such a way that it appeals to them as part of their culture. Sure. That is the part of it that sort of is weird to me. But, I mean, I was interviewing Bamako and Kevo and thinking in my head, like, this seems really oversimplifier. This doesn't really sound that close to my experience, having bought houses and shit in the past.

I get this feeling whenever people, the more vague they are, the less I believe them, generally. And that's pretty true across the board. Right. Because when you're in real estate, if you come to one of my meetups, everyone has problems. If you open a pizza shop, all they talk about is problems. This

customer, that customer, deal with chargebacks. This that's what business is, man. Yeah. It's like, you deal with problems and you hope to put them out. And at the end of day, if there's more money, you're profitable business. I've never met a business guy that's like, oh yeah, everything's super smooth. everything is perfect. I had the perfect employees. Nothing went wrong this month. So when someone's selling you a system and everything's easy, I'm like, do you really run that

business? Or are you just not being honest? Because if you talked about, oh, you could get to four million on YouTube, it's so easy. It's like, I don't know, it kind of feels fake to me. Yeah, I mean, it's easy if you work your ass off for like seven years and happen to have an expertise in this topic that is really underserved at the time that you started and stuff. Like, I could never have that conversation with people because I don't know what that underserved niche is going to be that you hit upon because the truth is is that if you did start a subscription email service they were charging for or whatever to teach people how to make the same kind of content as you you already are making that content and those people are then in competition

with you and you have a big ass advantage you've been building an audience you've got all this experience it's just never going to be as easy for the next person to do it as a person who's already established in that world what's also missing in this course world is you can take two different people, right? You have the same content, literally the same word by word content. One advertises it like real. Like, hey, you need 20,000 to start. This is going to be hard. It's probably going to take three years to get going. Or the other person's like, you can start right now, no credit, no money needed. In six months, you'll start making a bunch of money. It's the same information, two totally different outcomes. That's point number one. Point number two is that with any type of

business, real estate, there's like a hustle involved, right? If you want to start a podcast, you can give great information on how to start a podcast. That's awesome. That's like one What are you going to do after the information stops? Are you going to, okay, he said microphone, this camera, say this. Okay, are you going to actually implement? And that's the part that's not talked about that much. It's easy to start the channel and start talking about your own lived experience. Like people always, like, I see people start channels all the time in their first few videos.

But my mom loves me. It's like there's this fight I got into one time or there was this scam I almost fell for one time, etc. Like they always have that sort of like it's easy to do your own narrative. It's a lot tougher to like, but then also like relying on other people's narratives is kind of the other thing. And you've adapted to that pretty well where it's like you can take anybody's story and sort of retell it from the angle of, you know, being inquisitive about their business practices and what they're selling. So here's an ugly stat for you. In the course selling business, I think it's universal. 10 to 15% complete the course, meaning 85 to 90% don't even complete the course they pay for.

Wow. So how many people do you think even have success? Like a gym membership. The whole business is predicated on you not actually going to the gym. Which is sad, right? Because they use all this hype to sell you. You pay the money. And a lot of people, you know,

are in position where they might only have a couple grand and they pay one for the course. And then I had a fortune builders as a company that sells real estate education. They're one of many. And there's a few people that I have heard about who have spent $25,000 to $50,000 on education. Well, in real estate, you need money. So have you spent all that money on that? education, where's the money coming from to actually buy the house?

So you're basically setting them up to fail. 100%. It's sad, isn't it? That's crazy. Okay, so what about, one thing that I wanted to acknowledge or draw attention to is that when I was talking to Fresh and Fit the other day, I said that I think that faking it until you make it is actually kind of an important part of business. It's certainly something that I did.

I was definitely saying that I had more money than I actually did at certain points in my life even right now you know like I would never go into details now but if somebody were to say Adam's worth X amount of dollars I'd be like okay sure you know I'm not I'm not gonna question that or whatever but like we were having the conversation with Walter where I was saying like you know what about these press releases what about you posing in front of the jet and you know he he kind of admit right away he's like you know yeah I don't own a jet but like I want to own a jet you know I want to now I he said he said that even they've made enough money that he owns the car that he was taking the photo next to that he didn't actually own at that time I mean I

grew up listening to somebody like Jay-Z in rap. It's just such a default. It's like, of course, you're going to say you're a millionaire way before you're a millionaire. Of course, you're going to say you have all these things. You're going to say you got bitches before you really got bitches, et cetera. What are your thoughts on that? Because it feels like faking until you make it is kind of like ultimately maybe the main theme on a lot of your videos.

Absolutely. This is a very interesting conversation. I see nothing wrong with the concept of fake it until you make it in the 2012. In the pickup community, they talk about that. Have a little more confidence. Walk up to a girl with your short. Maybe you're not the most confident guy. but fake that you have confidence.

I see nothing wrong with that. There becomes a problem when you're starting to sell things, right? When you're selling that you make a certain amount in real estate and you've never done it. Oh, but I want to make seven figures in real estate. Don't you see a difference? Once you start selling something, I think that's where it crosses over. Would you agree? Yeah, yeah, I could definitely see that.

Right? Because they're buying into your expertise, but what if you don't have it? Right? For this product, what if you found out you've never smoked weed before? Let's say this was your first package and you're trusting the people that made this product to have an expertise. What if you found out that they knew nothing about weed?

You're kind of buying the product. You'd be kind of nervous, wouldn't you? It's different, I would say. But it's much different if that guy said, fake it to you, make it. He's trying to make his own. He's like, I don't know weed, but I'm going to start,

and I'm going to do it myself and try to make the best product. It's a little different. Right. So that's how I see it. So you don't put John Anthony necessarily in the fake guru category, but you do put fresh and fit in there.

What's the difference in your mind? Well, he has verifiable proof. Really? I've actually known of him since 2012. I have a good friend that knew him for a while. And so I knew of him. He was on the forums posting. It's proof I've talked to him a lot.

He also lives with like four beautiful women in Brazil. Name one guy in the dating space that does that. Right. I mean, I just feel like the dating space in Brazil is probably very different than the dating space in America. But I don't really know. But, okay, me and Danny Mullen have both gotten into like, well, I haven't really actually said any, I've never made a video about John Anthony or anything, but he saw me on a podcast where I was, like, alluding to him and he made a bunch of videos about me.

and then I saw that Danny Mullen has been beefing with him because one of his co-hosts who's what's his name? King Crock. Yeah, King Crock, but what does he call himself? I'm the pussy destroyer or some shit. Like he was walking up to girls and just saying, that's a guru name. He had a really good name though.

It was like, I'm black pussy or some shit. He was like some crazy nickname that he was going up to girls telling him. Fuck, I wish I remembered. But anyway, like, that dude spent 3,000 on this dude's courses and shit and Danny Mullen was like offended by it. And I feel like me and Danny Mullen

are maybe like in the same category where we're pretty confident with women and where we're at in life. So we look at somebody like him who's maybe had to really sort of like reverse engineer this whole process and it's kind of become an expert at it. And it's kind of like, you know, it seems absurd to us, but a lot of dudes are going for it. Like, like, how do you view that? I rarely speak about how much was spent because if King Croc had $100,000, what does it matter? Right. So I don't know. Other people value the cost differently, right? So $3,000 could have been a fair value. I'm not going to speak about that because I don't know his course. But the way, what I generally do with my content, as I look at the actual creator

himself, are they legit? Do they have verifiable proof? And no, I've known of John for years. And he's got verifiable proof of, look, it's an ugly industry, teaching people how to get laid. Let's be real. It's not the best industry. So there's like plenty of like grimyness to it. And teaching guys how to get laid is sometimes not like the best content. Yeah. And it definitely doesn't look good to people who aren't fully immersed in that world. Because when I click on a video and I'm seeing a guy, I have a late count of 1400, and I'm just like, oh my God, like, what the fuck is going on? I'm in the porn world where it's like,

there's probably a lot of people who have body counts like that. There's just nobody talks about it or says it. Yeah, his personality goes towards that, like the 1400, very analytical, very into, now what a thing I appreciate him is he's all about results, and that's why he advertises that because in that world, it's all about how much you get laid, right? Because that's not really a space where you teach guys how to date, how to find the perfect girlfriend. It's like how to get laid. So he uses that. The way he sees the world is

results first and these are the results, right? It's the same way if I was going to teach you how to do real estate, wouldn't you want me to show the income? Right. I make this much, exactly this much, even if the number is absurd. Right. When you, uh, what, what have you been left with in terms of your knowledge of the pickup artist's game? You're still single? Yeah. Okay. But so do you, like, what, what of that stuff that you've learned from that world is still the most useful to you? And how do you approach you? dating these days. Dude, I used to be the worst.

I used to think you had to go on three dates before you could kiss a girl. In the pickup artist world, that's a thing? No, no, no, no, no. That was before. Oh, when you were young, that's what you were taught? Yeah, like in college, I thought you, like, waited for her to ask you or something. You know, like, this was in college, man. I was bad.

Wow. Oh, it was bad. That's fascinating. Yeah, right? So I don't even know where to start, like, everything. But for the big thing with me is that in order to attract the woman I really wanted, I needed to have a career I appreciated. I needed to make a certain amount of income. I wanted to live a certain lifestyle.

I certainly did not want to be tied down a certain job. And so since 25 until now, it's only been on career. Now, unfortunately, I'm not like this super success story yet, but I've pushed dating aside. It's like priority number five. Really? Yeah, I don't even care. Kind of totally forgot about you. You're like just completely honed in on the YouTube channel.

Yeah, I mean, every girl knows for sure. Like, if she's with me, it's like, I make it very clear. Like, not that you aren't important. Like, I don't mean to be, I'm not rude, but it's like this comes first. But I do feel like you're like setting yourself up to be able to just like date higher and higher, you know, value-wise. as you go on because you know if your YouTube channel gets to a million then all of a sudden that's just like a big old tent pole flag that's just attracting women at some point right some of my friends

joke that I'm a robot I think very algorithmically and so the way I see it is yeah you get more status you get more clout in the in the YouTube space you start making a lot of money yeah you do upgrade every part of your life and you can argue that dating is one of them I would say that's in a lot of ways that's what a lot of these gurus are saying too is that like yeah maybe you can be dating right now but really you should be building value because that value is going to take you further in the long run. Yeah, even though I don't like some of them, what they say has value in that regard.

Oh, man, yeah. With men, it's tricky because you can slowly upgrade it. And I never want to put it like I'm getting better. I never like to use those words, like better woman versus before. But I think what a lot of guys lack is options, especially in 2021. And I think if you can get in a position where you have options, I think the dating game is going to be a lot more enjoyable.

Let's be real. I know you know a lot. There's a lot of guys who only might have one option. And so you get with it and maybe she treats her like crap, maybe it's not the best relationship. Well, as a guy, if you only have one option, one source of bedtime fun, you're probably going to stick around with it. But if you have a lot of options, you're probably going to have a better dating experience. That's my philosophy. And so that's what I've been pursuing.

Not that women are the end goal. It's just I want to live this lifestyle and a great dating. Yeah. I mean, women can smell the scarcity on you. Like, they can tell when you really are not super comfortable. They could tell when this sexual encounter means the world to you. And I think that that just like turns them off because they want a guy that they know is in demand or that they perceive as high value. If you're in high demand, then you must be high value.

We've all been in that experience where maybe you liked a girl and she wasn't giving you the time of day. And then she realizes that you're in a relationship or that you have other girls. And then all of a sudden she becomes attracted to you. Yeah, I mean, that's the biggest thing. And like when I think about that now, I'm in a relationship. but if I were to be in the position of like talking to a girl at a club and she wasn't interested in talking to me, all right, fine. Like, I'm not going to push the issue.

Like, I'm so confident in what I have to offer that it wouldn't even occur to me to try to talk to somebody who wasn't like open to having a conversation with me. But when you're younger, or you're kind of not so successful in dating, I mean, that's just like a way harder thing to get across. And maybe I don't have the answers. You know, like part of life is figuring it out, right? Like, that's just my path and I've had a lot of great relationships on the way. and maybe it's the best for me, maybe it's not. I don't know. Because I will have you know that Freshman Fit told me

that they have a list of 25 plus creators who made videos dissing them that they will forever remember had shit to throw on them. Nice. And I'm going to assume that you're on that list. That's nice. It's like a little, a tally list.

It might be a little black book. We don't know. Yeah. Well, I hope they don't come after me. Right. So, okay, what's your take on their whole thing? Because it's interesting because you look at the guru space. They're more like content first

because they do these live streams that are super popular. make all this YouTube content. They have all these girls come through, and then their courses and all that kind of stuff is sort of like built on the back of their actually very popular content. I like to give credit where it's due when it's earned.

I think they've killed YouTube. They figured out the algorithm and they do a great job at making a Jerry Springer show, right? You want to get views, man, that's the drama. I feel like a lot of their content's misogynistic, personally. I do sense that there's a lot of like natural dislike for women as the undertone to a lot of the messaging.

And that plays well, and clearly there's a big audience for it. And they figured that out. So it props to them for that. But as far as the sales messaging, like, come on, guys, Walter has a thousand lay count. Come on. And obviously, on the flip side, I know your comeback is like, oh, well, you have his friend that has over 1,000. But, like, he has verifiable.

This is all he cares about. Literally all he cares about for a decade. And to his credit, like, if you only focus on getting laid, you're probably going to get pretty good at it. Right. When I went out for a year to the bars and nightclubs, I probably had 30 to 35 in a year. And I wasn't even good. Right. So if you do that for 10 years, like 500 is like an absurd number, but like I wouldn't even consider myself successful. And that was before dating apps. So you add in dating apps to that. It's like a guy could get 50.

If that, again, if that's his only focus. So 10 years times 50 a year, it starts adding up. Some of the dating coach type dudes, it just really does make me feel like, wow, like you are advocating for spending the most absurd amount of time dating that I've ever heard. And you're just not going to have like for me. If I even had to go on like a couple of dates a week, it would just completely. completely like. It's exhausting, isn't it? It would be such a huge chunk of my day. When I think about it, I used to like go meet a girl for a drink at eight and then we'd be at the bar until two in the morning and that's just, and then I'm like hung over in the morning. And I'm like, what the fuck?

Like, that's like, you're giving up a lot right there to just what like realistically get the same experience that you're probably going to get off of beating your dick at home. I mean. I would hope there's a little intimacy. Right. But I mean, I assume, like, because the way a lot of these people talk about getting late, it's like it's clearly just transactional. They want to put their penis in her and then they want to move on.

and probably never talked to her again. It's like that, there is no like intimacy involved there. Like if you're going out and dating and dating because you're trying to find somebody that you want to be with and really build something with, then that's, I could definitely respect that more. Yeah. It's a very ugly industry because it's predicated on the idea of getting laid. Yeah. Which is, and a lot of them is, I wouldn't say taking advantage of women, but it is how can we get what we want out of them without them getting what they want out of us.

That's kind of how it boils down to, right? Right. Let's get laid right away. But, I mean, it is kind of like a natural. reaction to the fact that the dating marketplace is so skewed at this point where, you know, the average woman just has access to way more sex partners through these dating apps, through Instagram, etc. If you're an attractive 19-year-old girl from Ohio, there is a millionaire that wants to fly you to Miami and have you on his yacht. And that is great for him, great for her,

really bad for the 18-year-old dude who works a foot locker that lives in her hometown. Yeah, who might not have the same file. Yeah, yeah. No, I had. an experience one time I was with a neighbor and I saw her I got to spend 15 minutes with her on Bumble that was a life-changing experience man she was sitting on Bumble and swiping and I just saw all these attractive guys like each one after the other was like that guy's pretty good looking he's dresses well he's got a good career the kind of funny bio and just within 10 minutes you know 50 matches you know some insane number and I was like man I get it it's a buyer's market wow man like how the fuck could any guys stand out dude she could have 10 dates in 15 minutes with

the guys I'm looking I'm like this guy's pretty attractive right that's a pretty good catch for you yeah oh no he's not you know he wasn't smiling you're looking at the guy thinking like well if this guy is a no then I got to be in the ballpark of a no as well like like I've been in that position too where I've seen girls on tinder just saying no to everybody and but the girls are like that with girls too I remember back in the day when I had tinder sometimes I'd be talking to a girl she'd say let me see your tinder and then she would just be sweeping no on everybody and if I'm to grab the phone out of her and be like no like you can't say no to her But girls like, I mean,

she's not good for you. The world is their fucking oyster. So, I mean, they get to really have the pick of whatever they want to engage with. I think it would be a really good experience for the dating world in general if guys and girls for a week could flip-flop. Like, I can understand it from a woman's perspective. They can understand it from a men's perspective. Just the ugliness of the dating apps.

But it's crazy because women willingly insert themselves into situations where they basically get treated like men. Like they choose to go after rappers and ballplayers and rich people who are going to treat them like shit. who have tons of options who are going to basically, you know, ignore them and make them really fight for. There's a lot of women who really kind of like put themselves in those situations and then they're shocked when things don't work out. Yeah, wait, you mean Drake doesn't like only me? I remember there was an article or like a long Twitter post or something that this girl wrote because she flew out to hang out with the rapper Blueface.

And then Blueface basically ignored her, you know, like she was all complaining about. She was starving in his house and everything. And it's like, yeah, like you put yourself in a situation where you're hanging out. the guy whose job pretty much is like literally filming a reality show on only fans with all these different girls living in his house. Shockingly, he's not the most pressed to make you happy. If you had got flown out by a 24-year-old guy who makes, you know, 80K a year working at some small company, whatever, I mean, that guy's going to appreciate you. Every minute.

It's like, what do you want, babe? A lot of girls don't want that. They want to be doted upon. Yeah, the one thing that's good, that comes good out of the Red Pill community is for a lot of guys they do learn at least they understand women better some people take that the ugly path but i see it as a lot of guys under i think understanding women is probably the best first step for dating yeah just to understand like what are they into what what are they attracted to and there's not a lot of pity or sympathy for men who are having a hard time getting laid or having a hard time dealing with women like

that the narrative on dating is very much like written from the perspective of women and needing to be sympathized with, and a guy who's not doing well in this. I mean, people, in cells are one of the last groups you can make fun of, right? I would never make fun of those guys. I feel bad for them. No, but you think about business.

Like, there's a lot of people you could go to for business success, but if you had a problem in business, right, you go to them to mentors. And how many guys do you know that are really successful women, like the single guy that can go pick up a lot of women? And so you find a lot of guys go to the wrong sources. They generally go to women. How do you pick up women?

That's like asking a tiger, how do you hunt a tiger? It's like, anyway, So you have a lot of guys that weren't really taught well. And that I think leads to the ugliness of the red pill is you have this like underworld of a lot of bad emotions, a bad emotional pain. A lot of guys deal with a lot of emotional pain in the dating world. And they find this stuff. It's like, oh, whoa, what women did what? And then they find fresh and fit.

And I think that's what they play well to that audience. Really well. That's interesting because then there's like a darker and darker side to it that you can get into where you do have like the real like sort of hardcore in-cell community that's basically like blaming women for acting rationally within. the dating market really absolutely I feel bad I'm this is I'm so fortunate like when I look at life I just feel very lucky to I never had disabilities I'm pretty mentally stable and mental clarity like I don't deal with depression much and yet there's a lot of people out there that might have been born five two they might not have been the best looking guy right maybe they grew up in a household where they weren't taught

how to treat women well right and that's why the course thing blows my mind is because it's like how am I supposed to speak to a guy who's 5-1 and has actually and it has a weird voice. And, you know, it's like, what are you offering him? Like, I mean, that's your own journey that you're on. That's going to take very specialized information for you to figure. You know, it's going to take a lot of experience for you to ever get to the point where you're really going to be able to do what you want in that regard.

Agreed. Yeah, that's a tough world. And that plays in all different industries, right? Some people don't have money. They don't even have a job. And yet they're buying courses on how to buy real estate. Definitely. I'm curious what you think about the word opportunity.

Opportunity. What do you mean by that? I think opportunity is like the main word for happiness. I was thinking about this because for the last two weeks I had my this scheduled, right? And it was an opportunity. I even used the word when I messaged you on Instagram like thank you for the opportunity. Right. And I thought of it was like, opportunity I think is happiness.

Right. Because you're looking forward to something. Because in the moment it's like, are you happy? I don't know. I'm just, I'm hungry. I got to go to the bathroom. Like you're not really happy. But you think about I'm happy because I was just on an awesome podcast.

I got this trip to L.A. to go be on the No Jumper podcast. It's an opportunity. Yeah. I was just curious if you, it was just a thought. No, yeah. I mean, there's a lot, a lot of, like, opportunity is what makes life good. I remember, like, some of my most miserable times when I was, when I was young, when I was

16 would be days where I had to go work at the supermarket for eight hours. And my friends got to go and ride bikes and go to the skate park, et cetera. And that's what really killed me was just that I had, I knew how valuable the time was. Like, before a lot of people, like, they spend their teens and they're just sort of doing whatever. For me, I just remember, like, I just remember, like, like realizing and knowing that this was a big opportunity that like I was only going to be young once and that I was only going to be able to get to do these crazy things once. And so I then sort of like oriented my whole life around how can I make it so I don't have to work.

So I don't have to like do shit that I don't want to do and I can just really orient my whole life towards things I'm passionate about. And really this is the end result of that was that I got interested in podcasting and I've sort of built everything so that I don't have to do the shit that I don't want to do. and just having the opportunity to win. And now it's almost like a prison because now I'm successful enough that I have enough interviews I could do every day that now the idea of going and doing something

that doesn't make money in any given day is kind of like there's a real opportunity cost. If I chose to just go ride my bike all day tomorrow and miss out on all the content that I could be making, I mean, that might be like me going out riding bikes with my friends and it cost me $15,000. Right. And that is a weird.

way to have to start viewing your life at a certain point, especially as a dad, especially as a person who has responsibilities, who has employees, and you start to feel like, well, fuck, like, you know, like, I have to make intelligent decisions about my time. I didn't have that freedom when I was younger. But having the opportunity to really, like, make my schedule, whatever I want is one of the blessings that I probably don't, that I probably take for granted. Yeah, I just thought about when you're in a tough moment in life, maybe some people battling with depression. It's because you don't see the opportunity ahead of you. Maybe an opportunity to find a better girlfriend because you're going through a breakup

or opportunity to maybe find a new career. Opportunity is life. I just had a half-ass thought about it. I thought about when you gave me this opportunity, like this is crazy to me. Like I'm just a YouTuber and then all of a sudden it's like I'm invited on Graham Steffin's podcast and your podcast like what's next?

I'm just, I don't know, I just started making videos in my room and now all of a sudden I'm getting seen by 3 million views a month. It's kind of bizarre. I had this opportunity in front of me and it's, I'm not going to say I'm happy like day-to-day because I don't think we can evaluate day-to-day emotions well as humans. but this period of my life is certainly happiness.

Like, wow, it's just so much opportunity in front of me. Do you feel motivated every day? Because I assume that you're just sort of like waking up and getting on your computer and just diving into news sites and YouTube and just, I mean, I love that. Like, that's one of my favorite things about doing podcasts is that I have these big, I'll just have days where it's like, yo, I'm not doing anything for eight hours today because I'm just going to sit in front of my fucking computer and just learn. And usually it's about interviews I have coming up.

A lot of times that leads me in all kinds of different directions. if I was sitting there watching your channel, all of a sudden I'm watching videos from five other people. And I love that. Like that's where all this comes from is the fact that I just love sitting on the internet and just learning and just soaking up tons of shit. I have a really awesome job because I do get to learn about so many different industries. I've become pretty knowledgeable, but I'm a pretty interesting talker.

Like, because I can connect to a lot of people. I know the music industry, athletes going broke, real estate, YouTube, social media. Right. Become pretty diverse. And you just tack on more knowledge, you know, where all of a sudden there's all of a sudden there's all of these. different topics that you can talk about. And that's very appealing to me is the idea that I might potentially be able to have something to offer in almost any conversation if I could

become more educated about that thing. But then also that can be kind of lonely where at times maybe there's conversations you want to be having, but you're not necessarily surrounded by people who are interested in the same things, especially when you've kind of gained a relatively high level of knowledge in a lot of different fields. That can sometimes make like the average conversation a lot less interesting. Yeah, agreed. Good stuff. Like when I think about dating, like I was still dating a lot when I first started this

podcast and it was like I would be coming in and having conversations with like really interesting, fascinating people and then I would go on a date with some girl I met from Tinder and it would just occur to me like, this is by far the worst conversation I'm having this week. And that like really forced me to reconsider what I was spending my time doing of just going out and having these bad social interactions. More than just sex, honey. Yeah.

I want some conversation. It was so much easier when I was partying, when you just get fucked up. When you think about a bar, it's just like people go there, they get drunk, and then they just sort of let things happen to them. Because you're not, like, everybody in that bar is not consenting to whatever is happening. They're just sort of letting it happen. And that is probably a terrible thing for dating, but it's definitely like a terrible thing for your future in general. That's why you see people going to bars and getting in fights, you know, like I read stories all the time about people who have, you know, permanent injuries because they've got to fight outside of bar. somebody shot them in the leg or slice their face open and shit like that.

One decision. Yeah. And it's just a bar is just a place where you're asking for that to happen to you, you know? I don't partake in any of that anymore. Like the idea of going to bars and getting drunk, I haven't had a drink alcohol in years. It just doesn't interest me. Like any drugs, alcohol, I don't put anything in my body. Right.

Tylenol, none of that. Really? And so I, yeah, look back. It's just people getting a lot of trouble that I feel like can be avoided. That's why I'm, like, very boring in some ways. It's funny being around different environments. Like, with wheat, like, I don't, I just don't smoke. I haven't smoked in years.

Yeah, I mean, it's really not... I'm very much of square. Like, I just don't have any vices. I don't recommend weed to people in the sense of, like, if you smoke weed or if you like weed, go for it. But to become an all-day, everyday weed smoker, it's like you're really just taking on something that is extremely expensive if you're not already doing pretty well for yourself. And, you know, I think the value of it is that maybe you do it at the end of the day. It's a good replacement for alcohol because there's no calories. It's not going to make you do some crazy shit.

If you want to wind down towards the end of the day, I do think that. the weed is a great thing. But I also think people who wake up 10 in the morning and smoke a blunt, it's like, I don't do that. Like I don't, I don't, I'm not attracted to, you know, living my life in a haze. I want to live at least a good chunk of my life alert. And then maybe if you want to, you know, chill out a little bit at night, then that's, that's the better way to handle it.

When I go home to Georgia for the holidays in the newspaper, it's like so and so arrested for possession of marijuana, that little devil. It's so interesting. I look at it. I'm like, wait, wait, is this 1980? Wait, wait. But in Georgia, it's still like that. Everybody I know in Atlanta's driving around with fucking Oozys smoking blunts all the time.

Yeah, I think it is still illegal. At least when I go home, in the papers, it's always arrested for possession. It's crazy. You're a criminal. For having this in your hand. For this Empire Gardens, this makes me a criminal. Growing up or the rap magazines, like I started to kind of like collect old issues of the source in double XL. Actually, DM me if you have old copies of those magazines because I would like to buy your collection.

Super valuable. But when you look at the news, it's like, and these things are coming out every month or two. But the news section in small print will be like, little Kim was pulled over and arrested after the police smelled marijuana. So-and-so was pulled over and arrested because of the smell of marijuana. It's like the only thing that people were getting arrested for at that time. And I mean, it still happens. But also it's like then they find everything else in the car. They find some other drugs.

You can go much deeper, right? Yeah. It was just like the entry point into the, oh, let's find something on them. Oh, we can do marijuana. Sir, I smell marijuana. It's going to be a dark day for cops when they can't search your car because of the smell of weed because that pretty much predicates like every search of a car for anyone related to rap because it's so easy to just say that. Right.

Prove it. Yeah. I smelled it. Yeah. How could you ever prove it after the fact? Okay. So what are you excited about making content about right now? Like what really stands out to you as the stuff that is sort of newer to you that has you actually real excited?

I enjoy kind of transitioning to more reactions. I am really struggling, like, doing deep research on all videos. The requirement now is very clear. Three videos a week. How can I get this out? You have an editor, right? No, I do everything myself. I do literally everything myself.

You got to get an editor that you have a good relationship with, because that'll free up so much of your time, do you think? A little bit. Editing is actually the easiest phase for me. How long does it take you for average video? Two hours? Four to six hours. Yeah.

But I don't have anything competing against my time. That's a problem. So as real estate grows, that's where I'll look into editing. And so for me, I enjoy the growth process of seeing where I can get to. I'd like to transition also as I have success off the platform, I'd like to make a little more content about myself just because it's so much easier to make. And it can help that release schedule. One thing I'm really excited about is I'm doing this series on Fridays about this business that's so much fraud. It would be really cool if I could then become the reporter and really break stories.

Hey, man, this employer really screwed me and there's real fraud there. And I make videos that have big enough impact that actually gets notice in that. industry. I know with those videos, they're getting seen by executives within the industry. There's going to be real, tangible, like, negative outcomes for the people committing fraud. Right. Yeah, because there's, like, real pressure on you when you're the one breaking a story. Like, when a story's already up in the news or if there's already a video out saying that this guy's full of shit, then it's one thing. But when you're the first one to come out and say that, there's a whole different level of, you know, where you just really have to be correct.

Well, I'm getting sued right now. I don't know if you knew that. I did watch that a while ago. Who's the dude soon? Derek Moneyberg is the guy's name. Okay. Yeah, the video I did with John Anthony, funny enough. Right. I interviewed it because he's familiar with him.

And so I interviewed him about Derek and, yeah, I'm getting sued. So that happens, man. That's like the ugly side of this. And so I do want to kind of transition into content where I'm at least protected against that. Look, the reaction stuff's the easiest. When some big news comes out, I love that because I can talk about some guy committing fraud. I can maybe share some insight into it and then give my opinion. Can't get sued for something that's in the news if you're just reiterating.

Yeah, exactly. So it's a lot easier on me mentally. Then when you come out and you're like, A, B, D, there's no C here. I'm connecting the dots for you, but I'm not, I kind of have, some of these content, I have to kind of go out on a limb and just say, I'm not feeling it. I don't think this is true. Have you ever made a video? And then afterwards they were upset about it and you realize that maybe you were

incorrect about your assumptions? Bamman Coveau. Really? It was one. I think I made a claim. I won't talk into detail, but I did some research into this car rental company. I think he is a part owner of, and I kind of said, I don't believe he was. I think he's a silent owner for other reasons.

But anyway, that was one where it got taken down. I was like, maybe I was wrong. There have been a few where a lot of, I try not to make claims. There's a big difference between Adam, you're a criminal because of you committed that crime. Or just saying, Adam's kind of being a fake guru because he overpromotes. Right. Big difference. Do you remember the era where H.3H3 and them used to be making fun of Ty Lopez all the time?

And then Ty Lopez ended up inviting them to his house. And part of the claims that they were making against him was like, oh look this house that he lives in is on Airbnb it like he's clearly Airbnb in it and then I think Tyler Lopez's reaction was like no this is my house and I Airbnb at two people which that kind of stood up actually didn't follow H3H3 much oh really no okay there's some really good stuff bad bad yeah yeah if you remember that video when they went to his house there was like 20 lawyers oh yeah I'm not allowed to speak on it but I'm aware that tie has a lot of lawyers really I helped a friend out and I'm going to leave it at that

interesting so are you dealing with these these conversations with lawyers all the time and is it a big source of stress Not really, but I've gotten a couple threats. I've learned, thankfully through my lawsuit, I've learned the legal system a little more than I used to. So I kind of know what can be said and what can't. I know what is a threat and what is not a threat. Like what's an empty threat? I'm going to sue you.

It's like, oh, oh, shit, oh shit, delete the video. Now it's like, oh, really? What are your claims? Really? You can assume? I got the best First Amendment lawyer in the country. Right. Oh, yeah?

Here's my address. Send it over. Right? That's where I'm at now. Yeah, there's been countless times. somebody said they were going to sue me and I either just ignored it or like had my lawyer right back telling them no or I actually remember one case from way back in the day where somebody emailed me and told me they were going to sue me and I told them suck my fucking dick and that never

came back to get me and I was wondering if I was wondering if that's ever going to get any publicity in the future. Oh man that would have been so funny in the actual suit itself. It was like an email too to the lawyer like I wrote like here's the email. Here's the email. Yeah. Exhibit A. Hey Brian you and your client can suck my fucking date. That was my actual response. I never heard back from them, too. So I got a little bit of a big head from that. I'm like, oh, I won.

That's funny. I mean, the reality of lawsuits is they're ugly. They cost a lot of money. And if it's frivolous, I'm going to get rewarded legal fees. So if you're going to sue me, you better have pretty good ground because the onus is on them, right, if they're suing you. And so for a YouTube video, I've gotten pretty tight with what I can and can't say what I shouldn't, shouldn't say.

I'm getting better at it. Not perfect. You love living in Vegas? Is Vegas just like it could be anywhere for you since you're basically just running your business and out of your house for the most part? Love Vegas, man. I feel like the real estate is perfect right now for what I do, the model I implement, because you need a lot of rental demand because you want five or six people living in a house

that are strangers, so there needs to be high rental demand such that there's a need for affordable living. Real estate is still a little affordable compared to California. Oh, yeah. Right? And the income I'm making now, I can't afford this model house that I want. And so for me, real estate is literally perfect. The model is perfect for Las Vegas.

I can't imagine a better market for what I do. That is perfect. I've been able to connect with a lot of people. You know how it is in a city six years later. You're now ingrained. You've got certain social groups. You're connected with people that are successful. Moving would be like starting over again.

I've moved like 10 times since high school. And so I've moved a lot and I don't like doing it. You don't get tempted to get into the poker world? No, not at all. No gambling, no gambling. No, it's not gambling. It's a skill-based game. Yeah, it's not gambling if you win.

No, no, poker itself is a skill-based game. Yeah. No, I am not into gambling at all. When it comes to investing, I'd much rather do, I'm into risky investing, but not gambling. Because I don't feel like you have an edge. Right. Yeah. Do you get a ton out of doing those meetings,

or where you're sort of bringing together all these real estate people and stuff? Like, how much is that amplified your social network and business network? A little bit here and there. It's hard to tell you, like, a tangible proof. I'm a real estate agent in Las Vegas. I'm a referral agent. So basically, if someone wants a house, I refer them to my broker, and I'll get a commission if they buy.

So that's one way that you get your name out there, like, hey, you show up to my meetups. If you want to buy a house, you can use me as an agent. So that's one. Some people enjoy the content. and they end up coming out and meet. It's like weird to say this, right? When like people want to meet you. It's like you kind of feel bigger than life.

But anyway, that's a part of it. But also, yeah, just connecting with people learning from them. I'm always learning. I only have two properties right now. I'm not some like, you know, huge success story. Right. So maybe there's something I can learn from them. So it's always good to have people from different walks of life come together.

If you were all of a sudden making $100,000 a month from YouTube, what would you do with the extra income? Like what would you invest in at this point? Because you can't just be buying more and more apartment buildings, right? It's not a single family house. Right, but at a certain point, And it's got to be like so much work that you might not want to do that with your profits. Sure.

I actually probably would. Oh, really? So I would start a property management company. The profits are ridiculous. So to give you a good idea, on my seven bed house, I gross $46.50 a month in rent, right? And the total expenses are about $2,200. Okay. By some cash flow in like $2,400 a month.

Right. On a $400,000 house. Right. Can't get that anywhere else. Yeah. And so I want to implement this model. I would probably start a property management company, team together with some friends, and then keep buying these. Right.

And look, and part of it is I'm serving a need. There's a real need. Like, people thank me for renting rooms from my house because it's such in demand for affordable living. Right. And so I can provide that. I include utilities. I furnish the place.

I provide them a nice stable house. They enjoy me as a landlord. Whenever there's a problem, I fix it immediately. I'm not one of these shitty landlords that, oh, the AC's out. Oh, well, give me a call in a month. You know, I've heard of these, like, horrible landlords. You ever have a, breaks my heart. tenants who know you from YouTube and are like, this is kind of weird that I watch your shit.

And I also live in your home. Yeah, one emailed me and said whenever you have an opening hit me up. Really? Yeah, so that was one. Another one just emailed me recently or hit me up on Instagram and said, hey, I have a friend looking. Love your channel. You don't have a friend looking. He ended up just moving into my other house.

Yeah. So it's happening. That could be cool if you had all fans living in the whole house and then you have like a little cult. Yeah, so here's my goal. My goal is to build up enough of these and then live in an exclusive neighborhood in Las Vegas. I'm thinking two to three million dollar house and then house hack that and live for free. The concept is to live for free. So to live for free and it would kind of complete my concept. Like I could literally show I lost all this money. I built up from not technically nothing,

but I kind of built up from a really tough spot into living in this super exclusive neighborhood. Right. It would kind of solidify what I preach. I like it. Which is how I believe house hacking should be done by a lot of people when their 20s. And it's just good because it shows that you have like a real plan going on. Yeah. And like a lot of gurus over the years like, you know, sometimes they don't have something tangible enough to latch on. on to like I remember when I really saw Gary Vee talking about baseball cards a lot and talking about going to yard sales and stuff and I'm like obviously Gary V does not need to be going to fucking yard sales to turn a profit on this Saturday but him putting himself out there and showing like

hey look this actually makes sense like there actually is a profit to be had here and yes it's not huge but this is how you get the ball rolling I actually really respected that 100% yeah people like real man especially when you show the ups and the downs and I'm cool showing the lows I got no image to uphold. And people like it, man. People, I think that's missing in a lot of social media. It's like true, like a connection people can feel. Definitely.

Oh, yeah, I've been in a tough time too. 100%. Okay, what do you want to tell people to check out from your shit, aside from obviously subscribing to the channel, we'll throw the link in the description and everything. But what else do you want people to tap in with you on? YouTube. If you like my YouTube, that's cool enough. That's how I get paid right now.

That's the big bucks. Hell yeah. But yeah, if you like the YouTube, don't feel like obligated to subscribe. I don't like people subscribing just out of, just as, you know, the algorithm, right? You don't want a bunch of empty subscribers. So if you like my video is great. If you don't, that's cool too. Definitely.

No problem. Look at you trying to wrap this up at the end real quick, just like on your channel. I don't like that, like super long altos. Yeah, I know. I always see you do that and I always expect there to be something long happening at the end. But I think in terms of it auto playing your next video, you're doing yourself in favor. I didn't think about that. I noticed that with Vlad TV, his channel.

The interview goes to the very end of the video. And I used to put like a 20 second bumper, like watch these other videos, whatever. I don't think it's really worth it. Yeah, if you want to get like, ooh, like deep psychology, you could argue that you want fans to always want more. Yeah. I don't plan that, but maybe that's a psychological effect they're feeling. What YouTube auto plays is a huge percentage of your views, I'm pretty sure, you know? I don't auto play.

So I didn't even think about that from the perspective. But that's why people put their videos in playlists and shit like that because you're trying to get people to stay on your channel, even though the algorithm doesn't really care. if they stay on your channel, just wants to serve you something that you're going to interact with a long time. Yeah, these algorithms are tricky, man.

I just realized the other day, somebody told me like, hey, never post a single photo on Instagram again. Always make it a carousel where you put videos and photos because then people spend more time on that individual post.

That post gets seen by a shitload more people. 100% works. Wow, interesting. It's not even fucking funny. So we've got to do two different poses then. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. To like left arm, right on, swole, no swole.

We'll have you like do, do, do like a TikTok dance out here and everything like that. Oh man, that would embarrass myself. Not TikTok yet? Hell no. That's what we need too. We need somebody cutting your content up for TikTok.

I know. So I reached out to Jelly Smack, which is a service, Colin and Samir promote them. And I wanted to, I wanted, they didn't really reach back. I don't know,

maybe my content isn't for them or they're super booked. I don't know, but I was actually wanting to do that. Okay. I know a job. I'll put you in touch with a guy who does a lot of that stuff

and he chops up all that shit for TikTok and everything. It's valuable. I keep bringing them clients and I have yet to get the kickback. So maybe they're not signing up. This is what's called affiliate commission. I can teach you all about the affiliate world. How you can start making money without working.

I frequently notice myself propping or hyping up things and not getting my affiliate code. And I realize that nobody's ever going to know that I was the one. But we're going to get you started on BBCPoker.com. I don't know about that. But no, you're also putting your reputation at risk. So there is risk there that you need to get compensated for it. Well, let me tell you, these fashion of it jeans have been doing me well, although I might have to hang them up soon

because they're kind of ripping a lot more than I had planned on. Yeah. Yeah. You get some of these blue babies. What brand do you got there? Dude, I don't know. I go to the store and buy something and it fits nice and I go home.

Respect. I don't do brand stuff. Like, I just don't care. Yeah, if you came in here in like a Gucci sweatsuit, I would have probably been like, wow, this is extremely off brand for what this guy says he's all about. I truly just do not care. Respect.

Spencer? Appreciate you, man. Spence? Can we call you Spence? You can call me whatever you want. I called a lot of nicknames. For sure. No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world.

Check us on YouTube, SoundCloud, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube. We already said that. Patreon, only fans, all that. Like, comment, subscribe, nojumber.com if you want to support. Appreciate you, man.