No Jumper - The Trouble Andrew Interview: Creating Gucci Ghost, Working with Gucci, Snowboarding & More

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

 The Gucci Ghost creator opens the door to his art studio for an interview with Adam! ----- Shout to our Partners at Gamer Supps! ORDER YOUR FREE SAMPLE TODAY with our Promo Code NoJumper https://youtu.be/UUwcj1YC-NE Gamer Supps offers esports athletes, gamers, and podcasters the most effective and healthy energy choice to help them perform at the highest potential especially during their most crucial moments. Try it today 100% Free with our Promo Code NoJumper https://gamersupps.gg/ ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whether it's music or fashion or fine art, whatever. Like, I'm just trying something and I'm losing track of time because I'm just enjoying the process of learning. And I think that that's why I've found success. All right. No Jumber, coolest podcast in the world. And today we find ourselves in the presence of the one and only Trouble Andrew. How you doing, my friend? I'm doing great.

Very excited to be here. Obviously, we're not in our usual studio. We decided to come check out the art space. everything just you know figure that we should have a visual aid to remind everybody exactly how this fucking brain of yours works yeah definitely yeah welcome no glad you made it happy to be here yeah so uh can we start with the early days because uh you have a pretty crazy story that led up to how you got here today but uh tell us a little bit about your childhood sure uh i grew up in nova Scotia, like out in the country.

I think, you know, my window to art and everything that I learned about was through skateboarding, and I was lucky to, my mom would, like, always have, like, an older dude, like, rent in a room or whatever at the house. And just randomly, like, those few guys that were there were, like, punk rock guys that skated and just were always bringing me home, like, Dead Kennedy's tapes are taking me to the skate contest up in the city or um and that really i think just gave me a viewpoint like just a new way to look at the world i think skateboarding really uh there's no kind of right way to do it or wrong way to do it and there's so much like art and culture that's just attached to it so i was really

lucky in that way and my mom worked at the ski hill like it was literally like a ski hill it was maybe like 300 vertical feet and it was right down the street so like She was there selling tickets. So, like, after school, I would pull up and snowboard every day and in the winters because, like, winters were rough and you couldn't really skate. So around what is, did you start to get introduced to this? And was there a lot of, like, culture going on in that area? Do you feel like you just got super lucky?

Yeah, no, I got super lucky because it was, like, kind of in the middle of nowhere in a sense. Like, it was, we were on kind of a back road. and there wasn't like a skate park, there wasn't really like a scene unless you went into the city and it was like still very small. Then I was about maybe like 10 or 11 when that started happening. I started skating when I was maybe eight and started snowboarding when I was about 10. Right. So you got introduced to like punk and skateboarding kind of all as one cohesive thing. It wasn't like separate things that you got into?

Yeah, not at all. It was all one thing. And I was just watching like the skate videos or the snowboard videos. I was like learning about music that I would have never knew about, you know, from being where I'm from the, you know, country on the radio. And like, so I was learning about like bad brains and black flag and and like a bunch of underground bands too, like McRad and sub-society and a bunch of stuff that really influenced. me like to this day, you know, like all of those videos. I was kind of seeing the world through

those videos, like seeing the cities, seeing like mountains and all this stuff that really drew me and was like a magnet to like find that in my life later on. Right. Because I remember having that experience from BMX escape videos too where it's like everything, there's so many different parts to this that you have to understand. Like what are what is all this music? What like how all the hell are they capable of doing these crazy-ass tricks, like the design of it, the, the, the, even just like the graphic design on the package and shit like that. Like, there's just so many. Yeah.

And when you see that and you're like a 15-year-old kid that, you know, is wearing clothes from fucking old maybe or like you only know about so many bands because they're on the radio or whatever, it just splits your fucking head into. And all of a sudden it's like there's infinite shit that I want to figure out about what these 25-year-old dudes are getting into. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think that I was really lucky to have that and to experience that. And, you know, learning about like, you know, like Mark Gonzalez and like these kind of guys that that when you look at it, it's I think like, you know, when you talk about like skateboarding or snowboarding, surfing, BMX, whatever, it's, it's, it's more of like a martial art than like a sport. It takes like athletic ability to do it. But it's really like a culture. and just a way of life, you know? And I was really attracted to that.

I got like, I never was into team sports and stuff. I got turned off like really young. I tried to join like a soccer team and didn't. I was maybe like eight or something. It was like not a big deal team. It was just like, and they were like, no, you didn't make the cut. And I'm like, what do you mean? I can't play and have fun.

And then I went to see my older brother. He's four years older than me, Robin. He was at the parking lot at the, school with a couple of his friends. He got a skateboard and they were all like encouraging each other. And I was like, man, I want to do that. And then, you know, with the older guys that were around, I just, I really fell into that hard, you know. Yeah, like the competitive nature of sports didn't really click with me as a kid. And then once I realized that bike riding and skateboarding and shit was more like creative and that there wasn't a right or wrong way to do it, that just like spoke to

me so much more. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's what, and I think I've chased that same idea of my whole life, you know, with, that's how I became an artist and a designer and everything that I do is just finding my way to do it and finding my style and, and without any training, you know, whether it's music or fashion or, or fine art, like, whatever. Like, I'm just, I'm just trying something and I'm, and I'm losing track of time. time because I'm just enjoying the process of learning. And I think that that's why I've found success, you know. When you look back at that time period, I feel like some people are just attracted to the pure sport of it, you know, they want to toss himself down handrails and figure out what

they're capable of or whatever. Seeing the way your career is played out that you've clearly been able to dip into so many different elements of the culture, including the design and everything, when you look back at that time period, where you, the person was also like studying the brands logos and caring about the packaging on the VHS tape. Like was that something that always stood out to you? Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, we didn't have the internet, you know? So it was like anything that you could get your hand on, a zine or a VHS tape, a cassette tape.

You know, like you're just studying all of that stuff. It's your access. It's your window to that world, you know, Thrasher magazine. Like all of that, it was it was what we had to, that. that's the only access we had you know so it's like you look at it you play it over and over and over and it's even those tapes you know watching those videos it's you watch them religiously like there's you don't it's you don't have like a whole pool of content that you can just keep like clicking and finding new stuff it was yeah so i was diving deep into it and um you know once i got

sponsored like my first sponsors i was probably about like 12 and this was snowboarding to start Yeah, so snowboarding kind of like took off. I remember my friend, us being like, yo, like, because I was competing, skating. Like, I would go to this, I would compete like locally and stuff when I was around like 12 or so. And so it was going to be like skateboarding or snowboarding, but obviously being from Canada, it's just like it was just easier to. And I was just translating all that energy from skateboarding into snowboarding. And so I got, I started competing and doing well and locally, nationally, then, you know, doing World Cups and stuff. But I picked up my first couple sponsors.

And then immediately it was like I was already like my first design work like because I remember writing letters to them like, oh, I just learned like backside 540s or whatever. And like here's a T-shirt design. And I was like, you know, reinterpreting things that were just in my life. Like there was this logo. It was a popsicle Pete like popsicle logo that I I flipped for West Beach, which was actually like my first sponsor. And so, yeah, I guess that that's kind of been a part of my DNA the whole time is just to like reimagine things. Bring something new to it. That's so crazy to think back on that time period and what might have become of those creative instincts that you had because, you know, like sending fucking sponsor me tape.

and like t-shirt designs to brands and stuff. It's so crazy because nowadays, I mean, what does that energy turn into? I mean, are you a kid with a fucking fan page on Instagram or doing some sort of like weird YouTube edits? Or do you end up starting your own brand or do you end up, you know, writing an email to some influencer and you end up kind of working under them or whatever? Like the pathways the kids take are so much more varied. Whereas at that time, you really had nothing to do besides to sort of like pitch your services to. to establish brand. Yeah. Yeah.

And it was a big shot in the dark for me, you know, like being from where I was from. And, but it, it happened, you know, it's just like, I think even with the tools kids have now with technology, it's rad because you can actually connect with a person, a brand, whatever. You can actually educate a brand on something that they don't even know is about themselves. You know what I mean? That you're like, oh, this could be like a whole new thing. And I think that that direct communication is rad, you know, like if you have a vision and or you can just go out and do it. And that's kind of what I did later in my life too with just like just doing it first and then like affecting the brand and making some kind of wave so that it's noticed and felt, you know.

There's nothing that gets me more like inspired or excited than the many times in my life where I've watched like a BMX DVD or a skate video or whatever. and it's like clear that these are some young ass kids and that they're just good as fuck at the whole thing like they're filming is sick the music taste is sick they know what tricks are cool etc that will just give you this feeling of like holy fuck like i'm in for 10 plus years of like whatever this person's gonna bring to the table creatively like that's such an amazing feeling just realizing that kids have that in them still you know yeah yeah and they got phones you don't even need to have the the friend with the VHS camera You know, it's like you got, everybody can film each other and there's all kinds of tools and that's so exciting that you can, but yeah, back then I was like, I would find any, any way to make it happen, you know, with my own, you know, filming from VHS to VHS player to like make a video edit and like, you know, taking my friend's band song or like whatever, just making it happen and making my version of what, you know, I was learning about, like, on a higher level through, like, Powell videos or Santa Cruz or, like, you know.

Were skating and snowboarding, like, equal to you? Or were you more into one or the other? And then the snowboarding just happened to be the thing that was really working out. I think it's equal. I think that, like, skateboarding was definitely, like, my first love. And is that whole style that I developed as a young skater. I brought that to snowboarding, you know. But definitely, you know, having the ski hill down the, down the road and just going there after school.

And that's all I could think about, you know, and it was, and it just kind of happened fast. And I ended up, you know, competing and then, like, dropped out of school. And my mom gave me, like, just a crazy amount of freedom as a kid, which is, I was really lucky in that. that way to be going on these road trips with like dudes that were like 19, 20 when I was 12 or whatever, you know, that that really got me out. So by the time I was like 14 or 15, I was, you know, almost turning pro. By the time I was 16, 17, I was like, won my first, like, big pro contest beat out all the, like, it was like an invitational. It was called the Super Session. It was in Sweden. And I almost, it was kind of like I got lucked out because, uh, I,

somebody got hurt. I'd just gotten a new sponsor. They called me like, hey, somebody got hurt. We want to put you in this contest. And it was against, like, the heavy hitters, like Peter Lyne and Daniel Frank and Igmar Bachman, all these guys that were, like, kind of the gods at the time.

And I was a nobody, and I just pulled up and won the contest. I was, like, 16 or 17. It was, like, $50,000. And that changed everything because I went back home And it was like, then I was like, man, I'm going to do this. And then my mom was like, yeah. In retrospect, did you kind of get lucky or were you just actually nice as fuck and undiscovered?

I was definitely nice for sure. But I just, I got lucky in the sense that they weren't on their A game. No, no, no. Hell no. Like I definitely delivered. But it was just the way I got lucky was to get into that kind of contest. Yeah. Because it was invitational only.

It wasn't like open to whoever. It was the top 25 riders in the world. You know, so I was just the new kid on the scene that luckily this guy, Ben Proust, that brought me on to Solomon at the time, which he had just gotten his job and was like, I believe in you, you should go to this contest, I can get you in. And that was where I really lucked out. I had somebody believing in me. And that's where I feel like I've been fortunate in my life the whole way along is just to,

as much as I was missing a lot of other things in my life probably. But I had people around me that, that, you know, older guys and stuff that were like, I believe in you. You know, you got to do this. And I'm like, I knew I could do it, but I needed that kind of that help, you know. On a purely physical level, can you contrast and compare like rolling down the street on a skateboard versus like rolling down a mountain on a snowboard? it's it's got to be very different sensations like one you could hit a fucking pebble and be going

head first into the ground and one you're pretty much just like smoothly gliding through there like i've never really getting an avalanche right well i never got into that shit but i always have like looked at it it just looks like so fun and just smooth and nice in comparison to skating or bike riding where you're like it seems like more like guaranteed pain in that shit right um well i mean it's guaranteed i mean on the level of like when you're a pro, it's guaranteed pain. You're definitely like, you know, I broke my back, broke all my ribs, broke my arm, broke my legs.

Like, I've, you know, fucked myself up quite a bit. But it's just because it's high impact, you know, it's like snow is soft, but when you're going like 60 and you're flying over a hundred foot gap, you know, like it's not, it's not. But yeah, I mean, skateboarding's gnarly. Like, skateboarding is the gnarliest to me. I mean, they're both gnarly. You can die doing both, you know.

So that's the way I see it. Same with surfing. Same with BMX. It's like when you're pushing it on that level, you know, I've had friends die doing it. So it's, it's different because you're out, you know, if you're skating a ramp or you're skating down the street. I mean, obviously the contrast to like being in the mountains and that kind of stillness of the mountains and quietness is what I would say that the difference is what I would say that the difference is. where it's like really peaceful, but when you're, when you're throwing down, it's, uh, it can definitely which one do you prefer? Like the stillness of, of being off in the mountains or like just the hub

of being in the city and like, you know, just being out skating or riding bikes. It's like, you have to kind of like crave chaos in a way because you're putting yourself in an environment where a fucking homeless guy is going to start screaming at you and that's just part of what you're doing out there for the day, right? Right. Um, well, I mean, I don't know if I prefer. one or the other, but I'm super grateful that I have both and that balance in my life. And as a kid growing up in the country and all the stuff that I was learning about through videos, I definitely was attracted to the city. And, you know, post-snowboarding, I ended up, like, you know, moving to New York and being

there. I lived there in Brooklyn for 16 years. And just, like, all of the, I think what I love about being in a city is just, like the world is in front of you. You know, you can learn so much immediately just by walking out the door and so many different cultures and way of life and so much visually happening. And I think that the mountains is something that is really peaceful and powerful as well. It's just so I'm happy that I get to kind of like tap into both worlds, you know?

It definitely probably makes you like a more complete artist. or human that you have like so much experience with both being that they're similar but so different yeah definitely yeah i mean it's they've both given so much to my life you know for sure so when you were going on all these trips with like 20 year old plus dudes and you're like 14 or 15 i've seen this dynamic of bmx where the fucking young kids get turned out like super young and they're getting drunk as fuck and smoking weed and hooking up with girls was you have that kind of experience where all of a sudden you had to grow up real fast i mean i think i mean i was definitely exposed to all that. And I think that, yeah, it's funny, I just transferred all these old tapes

and I saw, like, the footage of, you know, the dudes I was rolling with and how they, you know, and yeah, I mean, I guess I did. I guess I did. I think that in a way I kind of like paced myself just because I was exposed to so much chaos and, and that kind of lifestyle that I think I was always looking at it and going it definitely sucked me in a bit in my life but i think that i also had my guard up a little bit and and didn't get too fucked up along the way you know and that's how i've i'm still here you know so when you take that big w in that contest how does your life change from there and you just get like laser focused on like okay i'm going to be the fucking boss in this shit. Yeah, well, because that was my opportunity to leave school, you know, and so I was like,

I'm not going back to this and I don't want to, school to me was so much like, it was just, I just didn't enjoy it. I didn't get anything from it. I don't really have any good memories of it. And so it was my opportunity to make it happen. I'm like, I'm not going to fuck this up. And I really did get really focused and used competing as like a way. to kind of get out into the world and get that support and make money. And that's what allowed me to stay out there doing it. And then I was starting to provide for my family, you know,

at a young age. And a little later on, I think, like, the contest stuff kind of burnt me out a bit. And then I really got into, like, making my video part, kind of where I discovered all this stuff, watching the videos. and picking the song and like working all year to like like put together a part that I felt pushed the sport pushed the the whole shit forward but um it represented me and and that's

the stuff that I'm probably the most proud of right because that's interesting that you weren't really attracted to the tennis and the football and everything so much but then in comparison like like at that time I'm assuming snowboarding like it's kind of like skating in BMX where it's like at that time the focus was competing and there was like a small pocket of people that like weren't at all interested in that and now it's the total opposite where like if you were to look at everybody who got a paycheck from skateboarding this year I'm going to assume that like 80% of them are like street skaters and people put shit on their Instagram and then you have like a chunk of people who are in the Olympics and doing contests and stuff but I think it's probably like a smaller

percentage these days yeah I would imagine so I think that um I just think like the contest is just, it's rad. It's more, it's kind of like, I would say it's like performing live. It's that, that moment to like really throw down and, and, but doing a video part is more like making your album, you know, where you get to like really put everything into it. It's not all about just that moment. It's about your whole season. So I really was attracted to that. And I think that, yeah, because I was just, contest is, it just becomes repetitive and just, I'm always, if I feel like I'm being repetitive, I want to just break off and try something new. And that's how I've done with art and everything, just experiment and try something new. When you were fully in the zone with like just trying to be the dopest snowboarder, were you just like practicing all the fucking time to just feel like training?

I don't think so just because I really truly loved it. So like I still, I think it was just doing the contest, doing the same run or something like that, where I didn't have time to like go out and learn something new because I was going from one contest to the next contest. And it's like being on tour, you know, you're just going and you're running through that set, you know. And I think after a while, it's exciting at first, but after a while I just, it just didn't feel. I didn't feel that excitement anymore. And I think that's where I always have the courage to, like, shift gears and try something new and push myself in a different direction so that I can find that excitement again, you know?

And so was this the early days of your video part in snowboarding being a priority? Or was this already, like, an established thing? And what year was this when you first put out your first part? my first video parts probably came out like uh dang i don't even it's like a life ago it seems like to me now because okay in case people haven't noticed me and you have a weird similarity where you have this whole snowboarding part of your life and i have this whole bmx part of our life and probably like 90% of people at home don't really know much about either and so it's it's always kind of weird to know so much about the subculture that you spend your 20s or your teens on or whatever and that to

end up in a different place where it doesn't really matter that much to people. But they know you have this life experience. They're just kind of blind to it. Yeah. I guess it would be, I think I was probably about maybe 20 or something. So, yeah. But that was just, it just kind of like, I was still doing contests and then I kind of like started. like and then you know and then i just kind of stopped doing contest for like the last half of my

career i guess i was just doing the video parts and your sponsors were cool with us oh they yeah for sure because it it definitely like i pushed myself and i did stuff on film that definitely like i was getting the closing part of the video you know what i mean or the cover of the magazine and what what would you describe as like what you were bringing to the table snowboarding wise because I've heard it from other people and I heard it from you a little bit that like you were very very well known at the time for having like an extremely unique style and kind of bringing a lot of different shit to the table. How would you explain that to a layman like myself who doesn't really understand that much about snowboarding? Was it a style thing? Yeah, it was definitely like a style thing and a big mountain freestyle thing like just pushing it like hitting the biggest jumps and trying to go the biggest at the time and and bringing that skate.

style to snowboarding and not being on some, you know, athletic, like, gymnast vibes. You know, I was more bringing, like, and also even on the fashion stuff. Like, I was, I started my own brand with one of the companies. I was riding for Burton Snowboards. We started this. It was like me and six other riders started a company under that brand. And it was like, we just wanted to bring, like, what we were wearing in our lives to the mountain because before that it was like really alpine influenced and skier influenced and we wanted to

like wear jeans and like flannels and whatever you know we wanted to dress like on the mountain how we were dressing skateboarding right so you know i was bringing a bit of that too and um and then pairing that with just trying to go the biggest and and pushing it is wearing jeans inconvenient on a snow covered mountain you're like falling and getting wet as fuck but you just do it because it looks sick No, I mean, but I actually did the first like, um, waterproof gene. Right. That was like an actual snow denim. And is that super common now?

Yeah, it's pretty common now. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that must be a weird thing because like as a skater, you could put on whatever fucking shirt you want, whatever jeans you want for the most part. It doesn't really matter. So like when you watch a video part that is a huge part of it is just like, how is this dude choosing to present himself.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So, okay. You start kind of just doing. the video part thing. How long was your like total pro career? Because like you described it to me that you kind of just kept getting more and more into the fashion side of things and that kind of

led to the end of it at some point. Well, it was actually kind of music that was it. Well, it was injury. The injury was the end. And I was probably around like 2004. I broke my back. And, and then I came back from that and then had an injury right after blew my knee out and had to get knee surgery. And at that time, I was just like experimenting with music and I started really just recovering. I had met my wife and I was, she had like guitars and like music equipment laying around the house. And so I was in Philly at the time like doing my rehabilitation. And and I was just killing time, you know, writing some songs with her like and realize, because I've never been taught how to play music either. It was just like playing like a single string riff or whatever,

but like I knew how to like translate a feeling and she would come in singing a melody and like some of those things ended up being songs. And then I started doing it for myself and I bought an MPC and a four track tape recorder and just like started making my first record, which I didn't know I was act. This was like MySpace era. Right. And I made a couple songs and planned to just kind of like put them in the drawer and get back on my board. And like my wife and some friends around were like, you know, this is dope.

You should put this out. And my wife, Santi, she actually made me a MySpace page and put the stuff up. And then it started like really, especially from like the snow skate surf community, people really started embracing it. Like, Bam, used one of my songs for his video part, like some other snowboarders and surfers were using it. And it just encouraged me to do it more. And so I started, like, getting more into that

and even using the opportunities that were presented through snowboarding, like, oh, we're going to this trade show. I'm going to pull up and do a show there or whatever. And then so I just started making music. I was in New, we moved to New York and I had formed a band and we were playing like underground spots in LES and Brooklyn and, and, uh, and a lot of like the skate community and punk community were like definitely, um, you know, given me that love and, and that allowed me to just keep pushing it, you know? What genre did you consider yourself to be making at that time, like sort of like post punk type vibe? Yeah, kind of. It was. It was kind of like genre breaking, to be honest. There wasn't like a whole lot that sounded like it at the time.

My first song I ever wrote was called Chase Money. And it was kind of, you know, it was me on the MPC and doing a little riff on the guitar. It was, yeah, kind of like post-punk synth wavy type of stuff. Just kind of like going with the punk aesthetic but not necessarily being like married to a specific style in a way. Like you're just trying to fuck with it a little bit. Yeah, like breaking it down a little bit because like I wasn't like I didn't have, I wasn't just trying to be like punk. I was I was kind of mashing some of those ideas like making the beats on an MPC and like playing it really. And they were like really melodic.

They were more, but they were definitely inspired by that first stuff was inspired by the music I was learning through the skate videos and stuff. Like those underground bands like Sub Society and McRad and that kind of skate rock way. So did you feel like the music side of things was appreciated by your snowboard fans? Oh, for sure. It was, yeah, it actually really was. I feel like that's as far as my music career really went. It was like snow, skate, surf, you know, like people knew about it. And I would pull up to like a skate party or whatever and play.

But, you know, there wasn't, I don't think like on a mainstream. level like it was really underground but in your head at any point where you're like I'm gonna make this huge like I'm gonna make this the focal point of my life is to just be the biggest musician possible I think maybe like I think

make it as big and as honest to what it was like I knew that what was getting played on the radio and what was really like hitting at that time wasn't like what I was doing. I think I was like breaking trail for something that was to come later down the road. And to me, like, that's dope.

Like when Riff hits me up and is like, yo, man, your shit should be fucking huge or whoever. Like, that means a lot to me is more about the respect. And, you know, I think that when you make something with like real intention, you really, it always finds its way and it's time.

It doesn't have to happen in your time. Sometimes it happens after you're dead. You know what I mean? It's just like, but when I was making it, and I'm still making music, but like when I make something, whether it's a painting, music, clothing, film, whatever, digital art, it's finding that moment where you truly are losing track of time. You're, you loving what you're doing. You're not just doing it for like, I want to get rich or I want to get, it's like you're doing it because it feels honest. And I think that that will always be felt. And it's just sometimes it's not, like I said, in your

time. Like it, it just, or it will influence somebody else to like do something that, you know, so like, that's how. I look at it. But that's interesting because whether it's music or art or whatever, there's always people who just 100% go to what they think will make them huge. Right. And it's like very hard to pull that off and still maintain like the integrity that people kind of need to see to really fuck with you as an artist versus people who also like we probably all could name skaters, bike riders, rappers, etc.

who are totally uncompromising and there is a pocket of people who really respect their contribution but for the most part they did so anonymously because they just weren't necessarily going to make those concessions and then you have somebody like Jay-Z who was like probably one of the best rappers of all time

or definitely the best rapper all the time in my book but you know he made countless compromises to make his songs fucking huge so that he could become the billionaire he is now I mean it's like that's almost like every artist's choice at a certain point Right. Yeah. And I think that I, like, at the time of being really in it, like, would have accepted, like, that kind of, I like collaborating. So I think even when you collaborate with somebody, you're somewhat compromising because your initial vision is getting split. So, like, I'm down for that. But I think, yeah, I just, I just make stuff and just keep making stuff and keep throwing different things at the wall. And I think that it all works together. And I think that it all works together. together as like for just how I'm viewed as an artist and and the sincerity of what I do.

It's like I just is that tunnel vision that you were describing and just getting completely lost and working on something. Is that actually the goal for you? Like in terms of like that lets you know what you should be chasing in life? For sure. Like that's what I always follow. It's just that I don't know, it's just a feeling. And like sometimes, I guess it's just always led me to success. It's led me to be able to live a life as an artist. You know what I mean? So like that's what I've always followed.

And some things are different. You know, like I collaborate with artists, but I also collaborate with brands and corporations. And like I understand the dynamic of that as well, creating like a product or an identity or like reimagining a brand like that i don't know if it feels fun and it's it's not something that's like this is dishonest and and corny and i'm just doing it for a check like i don't do that i just i've been lucky that i've had uh the gigs that i've had and that have allowed me to just provide for my family and live a life of as an artist a creative but it's interesting because

you're you're saying that you basically just just chase fun and pure pleasure and enjoyment. But a lot of people do that and it leads them to become fucking meth heads under a bridge somewhere. You know, like you, like, you have to be like willingly pursuing the things that bring you joy,

but then also be able to differentiate between what's like a short term, you know, pleasure seeking arrangement versus what is like creating something. Definitely. And that's, you know, being an artist and living that way, I definitely know my limitations as far as, you know, like, it's, it could be like a slippery slope. So I don't, I know myself.

And I know that I obsess on things. So it's like, that's why, you know, you won't catch me doing meth. You just know you're not an optimal meth user. Yeah. No, that's part of what fucking blows my mind when I come in here. It's my second time here. But it's just like there's so much evidence everywhere of you just being in that mental state of just zoning the fuck out and clearly just going crazy,

creating something that might not even really have a purpose aside from just looking fucking cool and somebody's going to find joy in it and want to own it? Yeah, and that's it. It's like not, I think the purpose is the process. You know what I mean? The process is definitely the purpose. And then be through that intention.

And I think that somebody can look at it and go, that's dope. you know like that's unique or i i feel something from that you know i feel like i would feel overwhelmed if this if i had your life i feel like i would be overwhelmed by the possibilities and the fact that i can only really like make my hands do one thing at one time does that like does that a feeling that you deal with a bit um not really i think that uh like i said i jump from one thing to another and and I've got a good team of people around me that like I assign projects too and like I think that I really like to mix it up so that everything always stays

fresh to me you know what I mean it's like I'll work on a video project and then you know I'll be delivering some graphics for like a collaboration and then doing some fast fashion stuff like and conceptualizing some new art piece or I like that I like to stay busy man because it's like a lot can you know you're if you don't stay busy it's I feel like that's what's dangerous for me is to not be occupied and not you know so it's like I have a family and that keeps me occupied and healthy and and I the art keeps me busy and healthy and so yeah do you ever find yourself in the position where you're like financially incentivized to sort of churn out copies of one thing that you've kind of already done that you know people want and is that is that

a tough decision sometimes where it's like you could just make a lot of money or you could chase the things that you're really passionate about that who knows maybe they don't make much money right um well i don't feel like i churn it out in a sense i definitely even when i do release something like a screen print. I keep it really, I don't release more than 50. And I do it, I do a different one every time. I never do a repeat. But even with like the Gucci Ghost project, which we haven't really talked about, but like that, you know, I've been doing for 10 years and that does well for me. But like, I'm ending it. You know what I mean? And I'm ending it probably when the well is the fullest for me. but I'm doing it because it just feels like the moment to do it and because I'm just doing other

things. You know what I mean? It's just honest. It's just like and the way that, you know, like this final piece that I've created is, I believe, the most progressive way that I could tell a story about that. Okay. We will get into all that stuff 100% for sure. But let's just so, okay, your snowboarding career and.

essentially why well those the injuries and everything but then the art just becomes a bigger and bigger part of your life to the point where it's kind of the whole thing well yeah it was kind of the music and then and then i started a project called Gucci ghost which was actually a record okay so and it was a song first it was a it was an EP it was an EP that um the first Gucci Ghost piece ever made was an EP. And then I started creating like this visual identity around it to bring focus to it. So I was, it really started. I went to the Philippines. I was DJing a party for my friend. And I was leaving. It was right before Halloween. I went to the market and there was some bootleg Gucci fabric. And I always was like into like, I was never into like Gucci property.

like going to the Gucci store or whatever. Action sports and like designer fashion did not overlap at all at that time. I was wearing dickies and going to the thrift store, the Salvation Army with my mom, you know, and cutting stuff apart and sewing it back together and stuff like fine. But so basically, yeah, I bought this bootleg fabric. I came home to New York. I didn't have a costume. I just cut eye holes in the fabric and skated around New York.

as Gucci Ghost. And like, I was fascinated by the fact that people immediately were like, Gucci Ghost before it was a thing. You know what I mean? And that kind of, and I was simultaneously working on this record, you know? And so I started drawing this Gucci Ghost and then I started like painting it and doing wheat paste around the city and like painting trash cans and like dragging stuff into my studio and transform my whole studio and all my clothes I was wearing.

and I was like painting and and it was really an effort to like extract some power from the brand, something really familiar to people. Because I was fascinated that people would like stand next to a trash can and take a photo. You know what I mean? Or like a wall where it was like I just thought that that was really interesting. It reminds me a dapper dam. Well, yeah.

Because he was making his own versions of all this designer shit, which from our modern day perspective of it, it's kind of like, oh, that's copyright infringement. But at that time, he had all the flyers, dudes, drug dealers, etc. In New York, just dying to get his custom designer shit. And he was reimagining the brand. Yeah. You know, he was bringing silhouettes that didn't exist.

He was bringing like a whole, he was bringing something that. That now they want. Of course. Yeah, of course. And they see, you know. But, yeah, at that time, I was just putting the stuff in the street, like really doing it in this really stripped down. raw way where I was breaking it apart. I wasn't using this perfect version of the logo. I was like doing it in this really messy way and spray painting it and really like a punk rock energy

behind it. And that was really just to bring people into me as an artist and what I was doing with the record and what I was doing with the, you know, like just as an artist, period. And it It wasn't with the intention to actually reach the brand at all. I didn't, like, I didn't start the project to get at Gucci. And, but at a certain point, I definitely was like, damn, they should do this. You know, I was doing it for like three years. Had you done much street art before you started doing all that wheat pasting and stuff? No.

This concept was so inspiring to you that you just started going outside the box of what you had done before. Yeah, and it was, it was everywhere. It wasn't just like street. it was like in the studio or on the internet or like in a film like I would kind of inject this this mascot or this identity into it to just on every like medium that I was working on with art just to like bring people into what I was doing because I felt what I was doing was somewhat influential to the influential people around me you know and so I just kept going really full steam on that and obsessing on that. And, you know, at a certain point,

I did think to myself, like, they should do this. And everyone's telling me, oh, Gucci will never fuck with you, you know, like, they don't light their own cigarettes. Like, they don't collaborate. They've never collaborated with an artist and you're not a famous artist. So, like, it's not going to happen. And you're just going to get sued. And then I was like, shit, I'm just going to do this till they sue me or hire me because at that point, then I know like I'm really affecting something and I have nothing like sue me. Go ahead. Like them suing you would probably get you a big fucking news cycle that would have brought a shitload of attention to you. It's like protesting and then getting arrested.

Exactly. Because if you protesting you don't get arrested, it's like realistically how many people are going to know that you were protesting in the first place. But was there, okay, one way of looking at it is like, this is amazing that I'm able to sort of like use a version of their. branding and be able to get such a reaction from people and people are so drawn to it was there ever the other side of it going on your brain which is like i'm doing a fuckload of free promotion for a brand that realistically has yet to show me any kind of attention not really because i felt like i was creating my own brand and i was doing it with or without them anyway you know and it was really just uh i felt like it was just something of the times and it felt honest to me and i was just

honest to me and and again like a lot of people around me told me not to do it and why are you doing this and you can't like you know even the closest people to me were like oh you should when are you going to stop painting Gucci on everything and like but I was I don't know I felt like it was I don't know I just felt compelled to do it because it just felt honest and I was having fun with it it was like I was coming home like you know check out this whole Gucci house I painted or like check out these this whole row of trash cans and like and then I was started doing paintings as well where it was like I was really kind of channeling this my own energy and like reimagining the brand and doing these life as Gucci paintings or like the Casper stuff or you know and it just it was just fun and and so I just

kept doing it and then eventually yeah because yeah before we get to you actually collaborating with them it's kind of like multiple ways you could think about designer fashion and I'll admit that like at many times in my life I pretty much just gravitated towards like this is bullshit that massive corporations trick people into spending ridiculous amounts of money on yeah and I do kind of see it as like a sickness almost for a lot of people where they are not at a financial point in their life where they could afford it and they end up just trying to sort of keep up with their peers and everything by buying expensive clothes and stuff and then I guess the other way of viewing it is just like these are some of the most incredible brands that we've got if you if you like

the idea of brands if you're fascinated by you know a supreme or whatever then I mean this is like these are brands that have been being built for hundreds of hundreds of years that have basically accomplished a level of elitism in society that almost no brand could ever hope to get to I mean there's got to be a real fascination about that it's a bit of both it's built in because why the fuck are you getting such a reaction when you start painting it because this does hold a lot of prestige in a lot of people's minds. For sure. And it did even in my own mind.

I guess I'm a victim of that sickness as well where it was like, you know, that's why I would go to Canal Street and buy like a fake Gucci dicky suit type thing or like buy even like fake Jordans to skate in because I was like, I don't want to actually buy that shit, but I want to have it because it looks dope. And my heroes are wearing it. You know what I mean? So it's a bit of both. And I definitely was aware of that when I started it.

And that's why I really, once I noticed how people were responding to it, I'm like, okay, I'm going hard with this. Like, you know, because it was, I could feel people's reaction to it. Right. So how do you end up actually making contact with it? So, yeah, like three years into the project, I, I, Well, it actually goes back to my snowboarding days, actually, which is kind of crazy. There's a photographer by the name of Ari Markopoulos, and he shot, like, a lot of the early, like, Supreme and Harmony Corinne and, like, Basquia. And, like, he was around the New York scene.

I actually didn't know this when I first met him. He came, he was at the contest that I won the $50,000. Oh, wow. He did this book there. He was like shooting snowboarders. He was like following snowboarders around because he thought it was fascinating, like, the way that we were living our lives. And he made this book. And so he came on a couple trips.

Fast forward. I hadn't seen him in like maybe 10 or maybe 15 years or something. I was living in New York. And Halloween, the night that I'm skating around with Gucci Ghost. I was actually with the ATL twins. You got a lot of cool friends over the years, huh? I was with them. And we went to this party, and I ran into Ari.

And I was like, yo, Ari, it's Trev. We reconnected. He started coming to my studio hanging out and shooting photos and whatever. He got commissioned by Gucci to shoot their lookbook in 2016. He was over there. And Alessandro, who is the new creative director, who brought Ari there. He was like, man, you ever hear my friend Trevor Andrew Gucci Ghost?

And he showed him some stuff. And then they immediately started blowing me up. Like, hey, you got to come to, my phone was dead. I turned on my phone that was like 20 texts. Like, hey, call us back. We want to collaborate with you. And, you know, like two weeks later, I was in Rome. And I brought like three years of work, like all jackets and canvases.

and hard drives and like all this stuff and just rolled it into the office and at Gucci and like they opened up the bags and it was just like the gold rays like shining out of the bags and everyone's pulling out the stuff and because I didn't know what they actually I thought maybe they do a scarf or something you know right but and just doing my my drippy Gs or whatever and like it ended up being like you know like 75% of that collection that first collection and and now you know fast forward six years it's like still still getting Gucci ghost rings in the store and whatever it sounds like a fucking acid trip to be just like going around spray painting the shit on walls and stuff and then to all of a sudden be in rome

and to have this actual brand like the most prestigious like most impossible to imagine them reacting to almost anything it's like when you think about their brand they just fuck with the shit that they apparently want to fuck with and there's no explanation there's no like you can never guess what they're going to do next it kind of feels like like for you as artists like what is going through your fucking head as they're just like instantly validating all this shit that you had put together over the years that must have been insane it was insane it was insane it was insane um it was exciting and it was like it definitely it happened really fast and you know looking back on it you always see it

different. Like, oh, man. But the truth is, like, I really, my intention was just to, like, use them as a vessel to, like, bring my art to the surface. You know what I mean? So I would have done it for free at the time. You know what I'm saying? But, but it was exciting because I was, like, had all these ideas and they were listening to me. I had my own office, you know? And it was like, you know and I had my own assistance and like so it was just really nice to be valued in that moment all that work and all that believing in what I was doing it was you know there was a group of people there that obviously are like one of the biggest fashion houses in the world that were like we really want to listen to you nobody told me like what to do nobody said oh you know

And, you know, Alessandro, I got to give it up to him because he was really fearless in the same way of, like, bringing me on because he had just gotten his job as the creative director. I wasn't a famous artist. It wasn't like they were hiring Banksy or something. And he really just believed in it and understood what I was doing and just gave me, like, free reign to do whatever. And it was fun. It was like skateboarding in the parking lot with your friends on a curb and everybody just pushing each other. Like I was, you know, painting down in my office. He would come down.

I'd be playing music. He would take some of the pieces that I had done, bring them back up to his spot. Then he would be like adding patches or linings to things and trying them on models. And it was just like it was really fun. And it was, it was. And I think that that's why it's been so successful for them. And I think that that's why it really kind of educated them in a way of how they can work with other. artist as well. Exactly. You know, and that was like one of my first things when I was there is to like

got to work with Gucci Maine. You know, you got to work with like I wanted Dapper Dan. Like all, like, because to me, those guys are my heroes. You know what I'm saying? And and I knew that they it. So, um, it was exciting. And then to bring all my friends into it and be like, oh, we're doing a Gucci world tour to all the Gucci stores around the world and we're going to throw parties and DJ and bring my friend to DJ and bring my other friend to film and like, you know, and, and just like making it our thing and taken over their spot and they were really welcoming to make that happen. And it was it was just a really good time, you know? Wow. And so like, I mean, you're being able to be as creative as you want to make all this stuff, but then it kind of has

to get distilled down into like a couple of items per season. Or, like, I mean, you're being able to be as creative as you want to make all this stuff. Like how does that work? Like for them to kind of be like the final say of what actually is going into production. That must have been different because before it was just all you. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I'm like, whatever. Use whatever you want. I don't care.

Like, but they had racks and racks like all these jackets. You see like a lot of these are, you know, the archive pieces and some of the first ideas. But yeah, I was down for whatever. Like I said, I was like, I thought they might just do a scarf or something, you know? It must have been a surreal feeling that you were a bootlegger. This is not an experience that any bootleggard. I wasn't a bootleg. Right, you weren't, but you kind of...

I was a reimaginer. You were dabbling in that kind of stuff. And then for it to go from that to like, this is an official Gucci thing. Just because they said so, now this jacket that previously would have been a, you know, an interpretation or whatever. Yeah. Is an official Gucci thing. Like, that's just so bizarre to think that their approval could kind of take a physical item and

completely shift the narrative. Yeah, for sure. It could take a jacket that sounds like nice fake. Gucci jacket to like make it a real thing. But then it's also, I think what's interesting about it is so is the Gucci version of that, the real one? Or is it the original version of that, the real one? Because the original is the original painting. The one that they made and put the tag in is like a screen print. It's just a replica. Right. You know what I'm saying? So I think that that I've always been fascinated about that whole conversation of like what's real as well. I think what's real. That's

That's why I wrote real on the bag. That was the first bag I did when I went to Gucci and I wrote real on it. I remember they brought in a bunch of bags and I just wrote real on it because it was like, now it's real to everyone. But then I was obviously playing off of the real and fake and bootleg and stuff like that. But to me, it was me saying, now you can all see this as it's something that's real. It was real to me the whole time, you know what I mean? Because I believed in it that much.

that's why I believe that it manifested itself into what it has, you know. And it also makes me think of when certain countries I've been to in Asian shit where there is no real version of something, but there's infinite fake versions of it. So it's like at that point, is this even fake if there is no real version out here? I was so hype too when I went to China for the first time and went to the market and saw my bootleg stuff. Wow. I was like, I really made it.

Yeah. Because that's like real proof that somebody really is fucking with your shit. Yeah. And I was like buying it all because I was like this is like even more special to me than the real thing, you know? Right. For sure. So how long does this, would you call it like a honeymoon phase or is there, they embraced you and kind of let you go wild for how long and like how does this sort of unfold? I mean, I'm still going wild. Right. But it's it's been like six years, I guess. And it's taken lots of Gucci ghosts as like had so many different like kind of lives within that time where it's, yes, it started with with the brand. It started with like the clothing.

And then, you know, then we went to jewelry and watches and jewelry is still in the stores now. And then we went to digital and we were doing like some digital stuff together. And, and now. Yeah, like, and then I've, it's gone to galleries and museums, you know, I did like, and some of the stuff is independent of Gucci, you know, and they've just always been like really supportive of what I am doing as an artist independently as Gucci Ghost, you know, and telling that story. Because to me, the most important thing was to like share that journey because I think most people, they discovered Gucci Ghost through the brand. And they don't really know, like, how it started and how it started so modestly. and it was like all these different mediums that I was using to tell this story. So when I've been doing gallery shows and museums,

I've been really sharing that story and that art to bring perspective of like, oh, like that's where it started with this guy that was doing all this stuff, you know, because I think it's inspiring and I want other people to, you know, have that courage to kind of, if you believe in something, just fucking go for it, you know? I mean, I think that's one of the reasons. that it got me hyped on what you're doing is that with a lot of these designer brands,

obviously they're the furthest thing from like a first generation brand where if you start a company tomorrow, everybody knows you're the dude who started it. You're the dude who thought it up. And it's it's kind of like easy to understand a brand when you could see it from its conception, whereas like all Gucci or any other like big brand. I mean, it's been bought and sold multiple times. And it's kind of hard. And that's like the same reason why people say like I steal from corporations i won't steal from an individual right because you like i mean a corporation still is something owned by a bunch of individuals but it's been like obscured to them like how this is a bunch of individuals and with you it's kind of like oh we got to see like a reimagining of the brand by somebody

who is you know you get to see it from the ground up in a way yeah for sure and and and you know along that journey at the same time i've been building my own brand real buy which was actually came out of my first art show that i ever did in new york at milk. It was insane. It was like so fun. What year did you first start using that name? That was in 2017, maybe. And was this like a reaction to them? Like I kind of imagine, I don't know it was true that maybe at a certain point either you realized or they kind of told you like if you're going to be making real Gucci stuff, you can't necessarily be selling shit yourself that has some of these drawings on them. Well, yeah. I mean, I can sell art. Art. It's my right to

interpret the world as I see it as an artist. But as far as clothes and stuff, I reserve that for my collaboration with Gucci. I don't go out and try to sell, you know, make my own brand version of it. I made my own brand Real Buy, right? And Real Buy was not really a reaction to them saying that. It was just like, it was just, it was the title of my first art show. And it was a react, it was what I was saying was it's real by me. You know what I mean? And it's like brands, they grab what is, you know, they often collaborate with artists because artists bring something that's very real and authentic and relatable to the brand. So I wanted to do this real buy play on that. And we did some T-shirts and stuff at the first thing. And it was like

people were really, you know, into it. So I was like, oh, let's, let's push this further. And And then, you know, I just did a museum show last year. And it was like an overview of my whole life as an artist. It was at the modern art museum in Shanghai. And I did all this crazy sculpture stuff. I had like five different rooms. One was like dedicated to my street stuff. One was dedicated to my music stuff.

One was dedicated to like my studio. Another was dedicated to I did a store. It was like my brand and it was the real buy store and we just made all this crazy stuff like jackets and pants and whatever. And then I went to Paris Fashion Week and did all that and it just started to happen naturally. And so that's been fun too, you know, and to be able to like have my own inventory of stuff and hooking my friends up and the, you know, skaters and snowboarders and stuff that I think are rad and give that kind of same sort. support out that I received as a kid, you know, is a cool place to be. I was interested when I saw that you had a booth at like complex com. Oh yeah, that was fun.

And that kind of made me think, like, I wonder what the future of the real buy thing is going to be. Like, could he see himself doing a lot of these more sort of like mainstream, like consumer friendly fashion type things? Like, do you look at other brands? Is there any brands that you look at that you could kind of imagine it being similar to over the years? I don't even know.

Or is it more of an art project in your head? It is kind of an art project. I feel like the brand is about the art and it's like about creating experience. You know, that's why I loved the Complexcon thing. It was really fun just because it was just a place to like create an experience. And, you know, my friend was tattooing and like my other friends were working there with me. And like we were, I made a bunch of like one of one stuff here on the floor. And like everything, even when I like do a print run of the shirt.

or whatever it all starts with like just making something on the floor and like making it in a real artful way so i just i don't i think it's kind of its own thing you know right how much of your time does it take and like do you do you have a vision for it like hiring employees and really kind of like making it start operating on its own or or is it more just like you feel like doing something you do it yeah well up until like literally like last week i've been just doing it in the same way that i'm like just doing it because I'm it's fun and uh again I always find the right people or they find me or something because I'm doing it and I have some partners now and I've got like an infrastructure to like really bring this more to the world more more outside of my studio you know what I mean

and and that's rad like I think for me it's all about sharing the art and the experience and the story, whether it's with the paintings or with the clothing or with the music, it's just like sharing it and having it reach as many people as possible. I think that that's the goal. But if you want to be a really prolific artist, if you want to really make an impact on the culture, you as an adult, like, do you look at it and you're like, you have to have other people involved to help you deal with the business of it? I mean, I do a lot of the business myself.

I have a lawyer. and I have a team of people that help. You know, I've got like a little factory going on where it's like I assign tasks. But I think, yeah, each thing has to have legs behind it. It's got to have some muscle behind it. In a certain, you know, I couldn't have built like a 30 foot high microwave that was like a mini gallery to some of my paintings in China

if I didn't have a bunch of people around me that are like, when I'm like, I want to build a giant microwave, like, I need, I couldn't have done that myself. You know what I mean? But how much do you need to be involved in order for it to still feel like your work? Well, just the conceptual part of it, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like an idea like that. I don't know how to build a giant microwave, but like I know the microwave over there that's that I heat my coffee up in every day is. the perfect thing to replicate. So I'm like, just replicate this microwave

and make it as big as this room and hang my paintings in it. And it came out perfect. Right. No, for sure. It's just kind of like crazy to think about like, because I mean, I feel like once you get to like, because you hear stories like I'm sure you've heard way more

and know more way more about it. But when you hear about like really successful artists who just end up in this crazy fucking position of being able to make so much money and they have all these assistants working under them and helping them to do everything. Like, is that something that you fully embrace? Or is it something that you have a little bit of trepidition about dipping your toe into becoming that dude?

I embrace it. I love it. I love to have help because I'm completely secure in the fact that I know that I can translate an idea or I can make sure that it's authentic. But I know that it takes a village sometimes, you know? And it's like for the scale of things that I want, I'm trying to. trying to do with my career, you know, it's, it's, I look at people like Andy Warhol, you know, it's like I'm trying to do that. Like, I'm trying to go as big as possible. And, and sometimes

that starts with just making something on the floor or doing a sketch or whatever, but it takes a group of people that understand what I'm trying to do, just like Alessandro understood what I was trying to convey with the fashion and bring it to the world, you know? So I'm always, like, welcoming that kind of help because, I'm trying to go big, you know? Right. Yeah, you can't get big without getting a little bit of assistance at some point. For sure.

Some people might have caught it earlier. You're married to Santigold. Santi Gold, yeah. Sontie Gold, whoops. Yeah, that's all good. When did you meet her? How did that unfold? Because this is way before she became kind of like a household name at one point, right?

Yeah. I met Santi in New York. I was actually snowboarding. It was before it was like 2003-ish or something. before I had my big injury. But I'd met her because I was at this magazine. I was hanging out in New York because we were doing like a promotional tour for the snowboard brand. And so we did like a party and like showed the snowboard video or whatever.

And I was hanging out at this spot called Fridge Magazine because I had some friends there. And it was kind of like it became Frank 151. Oh, wow. But previous to that, it was this the guys from. there. At fridge, it was kind of like a snowboard, skate, fashion, hip hop, graffiti. Like, it was just a culture magazine. So when I would pop into New York, I would hang out with those guys. And Sonti was in town from Philly. She had a band called Stift. It was like a punk rock band, and she was doing her first photo shoot, and she had just made her demo tape. I was leaving

in the office and my friend was like, yo, my friend Seth was like, yo, stay. My friend's picking me up. We'll drop you off the hotel. And it happened to be Santi. And she was playing me, her demo tape all shy about it. And I was like, wow, this is dope. And then we believed right away. Huh?

You believed right away? I did. I did. I was like, and we just had like a lot in common. And we were talking about music. And I, the one thing was crazy because I was like, we were talking about music. And I was saying rare bands that I did. knew nobody fucking knows.

And I was like, oh yeah, one of my favorite bands is McRad. And she was like, oh, yeah, Chuck, that's my drummer. And I'm like, what? And so I left the next day for Switzerland. And I was in Switzerland for like two months filming my video part. And we just stayed in touch. And I ended up getting hurt. And I went back to Philly.

And then, yeah, here we are, like 20 years later. How many years after that did she blow up? up and I assume that that puts a lot of strain on a relationship, but did you guys just keep it together? Oh yeah, for sure. Because I feel like in our journey, it's been like a lot of, like, when she's up, yeah, maybe I'm like, we've supported each other. So like we, uh, and I've always been really excited for her and she's been excited for me. So, um, and, you know, that's what she wanted and I wanted for her too. You know, she was an amazing, uh, um, um, and I was an amazing, uh, the music she was creating at that time was like something new and it was it was um once she

started santi gold it was like i mean i'm a big fan of stiff too i love the stiff records but uh yeah it was it was something she really wanted and and and it was rad to see it happen in her life too for her to have that vision and to go hard with it and for it to manifest itself into her making that her life, you know? Was she just like nonstop on the road and having to do a million different things for this? Like, is there like a period in your memory of the relationship that was kind of chaotic because she was just being pulled in so many directions for a few years? Not really because I think that I was always used to that life too because I was always traveling snowboarding and I was used to so it was exciting to me to oh, we're going to the UK to do

something. Oh, cool. I'm rolling like whatever. And then once we had kids, you know, it was cool too because we were pre-pandemic like rolling around on the tour bus with our first son and and um and then i would be doing art stuff and we would kind of just be yeah it's like a nice balance you know that's some commitment you went 12 years before you had a kid or so yeah and then four years before you went for it again yeah that's pretty impressive that's it's a crazy trajectory right yeah most people don't wait that long and they don't wait that long in between and most people just don't make it that long. Facts.

You know? But yeah, we've been lucky and we chase our dreams and we support each other in that way. And I feel like most of the people in my life are people that I see doing the same thing. You know, I see them chasing their dreams. And I guess that that's how we're all attracted to each other and we support each other. I mean, my brother, my older brother, he's, you know, a game designer. He always loved video games and was just he made that his life. He moved out to the West Coast and started work for like EA and Ubisoft and all these.

Now he's working with a new brand. And yeah, my younger sister, Maggie, she's working on music. My younger brothers, they learn Japanese and they live in Japan and teach English and do it. So it's like and then all my friends, I feel like I just have a bunch of rad people around me that are, that we all love and support and and push each other to be great and definitely yeah um becoming a dad did that change a shitload in your life like what was your life like prior and after in broad strokes yeah for sure i mean becoming a father definitely changes everything but i think that the biggest thing that it changed for me from my old way of

living is just having some kind of sense of time i never knew what fucking day of the week or month it was i still kind of don't know i do know the days of the week and i know that i got to get up at you know seven o'clock i've had this problem for much of my life as well i never had a schedule until the past couple years right it was just whatever seemed fun yeah exactly so i guess that's the biggest change and then just being a dad i i'm still me that was my biggest fear about being a dad was just like I was afraid that it was going to change things so much that I wouldn't be able to be me. And it's like, I'm me and I'm doing, I'm more successful than I was previous to having a kid. I think it really let me know like how precious time is and how you've got to

really, if you want to do something, you got to like use that time wisely. And then you have the other time to spend with your children and share all of the rad stuff that you're doing in your life with You know, it's like, I'm just a big kid and I just, you know, I bring them to the studio and Santi brings them on the road and we bring them to shows and they're around a bunch of, they're, they're already, I'm looking at them like, wow, like you're my favorite artists. Like, they're exposed to so much and, and it's fun just to share that with them, man. I feel like every kid becoming aware of their parents' profession is like interesting in a variety of different ways but the art thing must be like really fun to share with the kid because

every kid's an artist inherently right everybody's an artist so yeah it's it's fun to really encourage that whereas i think that aside from like my mom being like as a kid like always getting me paper and stuff to draw on and you know me spending all that time like uh a lot of people in my life like teachers and friends, I guess other parents and stuff, we're always like, it's unrealistic to be an artist. It's not. And so it's the opposite with us. We're like so encouraging where it's like, I mean, it doesn't matter to me if they become artist. I just love to see them freely create and I just love it. It inspires me so much because the things that they create and the way that they just are so free is amazing.

Because I think that's a part of your brain you're trying to tap into when you're working. Of course. I think that every great artist is trying to find that moment of complete where you're not like so influenced or there's no like there's no ceiling to something. It's just it could be however it comes out. It doesn't have to be like any. way and i think that that is is just translating a feeling that's art you know right damn do the kids experiment with music a lot too yeah um recently when i was rehearsing with the band because we actually just did i did a show for the first time and like seven years really with prayers um and actually another artist

alex sucks who i really like um i was just rehearsing at the house and they just jumped on the mics and like I had an instrumental going and they like just I was blown away by like the way that they translated their feeling onto the to the to the to the to the beat and um like my youngest son honor he really loves this band zulu it's like a have you heard them no uh L a band hardcore band really sick But he was just like screaming on the mic and like, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's just so pure and honest, you know. Right.

It's interesting though because I, I feel like you can raise your kid to have the spirit of an artist, but in some way that might at a certain point make it harder for you to get them to just like go to fucking class or like have a part-time job or whatever. Like when you bring them up in this atmosphere where everything is fun and creative. I feel like I'm already experiencing that with like, like, really? they're like, I don't want to go to school. Right. I'm like, I feel you.

Like, you're not able to hide the fact that like, yeah, I wouldn't want to either if I were you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I imagine like early you being like just working. How the fuck are you not sweating, bro? Oh, it is hot as shit. Yeah.

Hey, man. We're almost done. All good. The one thing I imagine is I imagine like you doing art all night a lot of times back in the day. Now I imagine you being on like much more of a tight schedule. I imagine your younger self just kind of like working all night and just going crazy, letting your creativity flow at all hours of the day. I assume that that's changed with fatherhood.

You're on more of a schedule at this point. Yeah, for sure. So like I drop the kids off at school and then I come here. I'm usually here from like 10 to 2.30 and I really use that time to sometimes I don't actually. I don't force it either. Like, if it doesn't feel like it's happening, I'll just, like, listen to some records or watch some films or make some calls or just do something productive. Feed my mind somehow. And then sometimes I come back in the evenings, like maybe once a week or twice a week.

But, like, yeah, I definitely work on a schedule now. And I really use that time wisely, you know? Right. Yeah. Probably got to be like that. What, you were actually just showing me earlier, we can slip some B-roll in here. the virtual reality shit like like so this is an nfti world that you're involved with explain how this all works to me yeah so like um a couple years ago the winklevoss twins the guys that started facebook they started a platform uh nifty gateway i'm sure you've heard of it but uh you haven't no i have

oh okay i know everything about nfts oh okay cool i saw you talking to gary v so i i'm sure you know a little bit i still haven't copped that v friend though word got to give me a pelican um so so these guys they reached out to me and said hey we're starting this platform nifty gateway and we want to for you to be one of the first artists to come out and do an nfti and i was like what's an nfti and like nobody really knew what an nfts was at that time and um i was just like i just welcomed it because I just saw it as almost like a new social media. It was just another way to like connect my art with people. And so I was down and I did a couple drops with them.

And I did a drop last March when everybody, it was like, NFT was like the biggest buzzword, you know. And it was really a crazy drop. And from then I wanted to, create something where even when I first started, I was like trying to think I was way ahead of it, where I was creating like my first NFT that never came out. Like the technology didn't even exist at the time. But so I ended up releasing like some more basic versions of, of my translating my art to digital. And like, but for this piece that I've been developing for the past year that

I really like dumped a lot of even what I made into and from NAC. into this NFT. It's an overview. Again, like I was telling you about sharing the story. You know, I was supposed to do this big art show in L.A. pre-pandemic that was going to be an overview to really show and give perspective to people of like how this project started and how far it's gone and how many different mediums I've used and whatever obviously didn't happen because of the pandemic.

And then that really, in those moments, really inspired me because I was like, how could I still tell this story? How could I connect with people? So I went back and I, in 2017 at my old Brooklyn studio where all of the Gucci Ghost project really went down and was conceptualized and created all the samples and everything. I started like rebuilding that space digitally because I had it all scanned and archived. I'd really do a good job of archiving all the work that I make. And so during the pandemic, I started building this 3D space that was a replica of the actual original studio in Bedstuy, 118, Ralph Ave. So you were building it or how did you go about?

You have to work with somebody who helps you create the 3D scan of it and shit? Yeah, yeah. So I got like a rad digital team, my buddy Jim and Brian. They like, I basically was like, yeah, they had the digital scans of everything. So I'm like, yo, let's rebuild this thing. Let's put everything as it was. We looked at photos and everything from that time. And so we started building it.

And in the past year, I completed this piece. And it's a one of one that is the original studio space that has all the original iconic paintings, objects. like everything that happened in that time and actually from the 10 years like I put in some newer pieces into the piece so it's a one of one that one person only one person or a group of people can get but then they can actually break it up and sell it individually so like each piece would disappear from the space as it sold just like because I wanted to parallel the real world I wanted to parallel like you come in here you saw the guy he just came in and he they bought

that painting and he just came and picked it up now it's gone it's and it won't be here anymore so i wanted to make that happen in the digital space so every different painting i saw in there is basically represented by its own nfts and then the space itself is an individual nfts as well yes yes so if somebody sold every single piece in there then they'd be left with just the space right you know but uh yeah and it's it's really unique in the sense that it's tied to something that's actually real it's you can look at the value of like say the paintings the physical paintings what they sell for you could look at the value of like what you know the art actually made for Gucci like there's and you can look at the story in the time that it happened and go this really it's not only like a place in time it's there's

there's actual value it's not some like fugazi like oh this is worth this much it's like no it actually, you know, it holds a certain significance because it's something that really happened. And I think that there's a place in NFT to like really bring something from the physical world and a physical, like a real experience and a real time and place and like parallel it with the digital and and share that story. And so that's going to be the final piece. I'll never, once that sells, I'll never make another Gucci ghost. I'll never do another clap. I'll never paint another, make another jacket, nothing. It'll be the last piece.

And I've actually started even painting over some of my paintings and burning NFTs to like create such scarcity to protect the value of anybody that's collected my stuff and believed in me as an artist so that, you know, I'm almost creating the moment when an artist dies. There's just like no more. Right. So you are just going to Gucci like, hey, it's been real, but I'm not making any more of this stuff. Yeah. Was that a tough decision financially or, you know, you built this relationship? It's like it's kind of like being in a relationship with a girl. Like at a certain point, you just have to, hey, it's over.

I'm sorry, you know? Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, not really because I feel like I've existed as an individual this whole time. It's not like Gucci Ghost is just a thing with Gucci. You know, Gucci Ghost has been a thing. for 10 years, three years before Gucci was ever involved. And it's been something that I've done as an individual and as an artist the whole time.

So it's more a moment of me saying, hey, like, I have all these other things that I'm excited about right now. I'm the most excited about this NFT. I believe it's the most progressive way for me to tell this story. I don't see. It's like the perfect project completion. It's bringing it back to the origins of where. it started. It's like archiving and preserving that moment in time. It's some real like back to the future shit because it's like we're going back, but we're actually going forward with technology.

Right. So I just feel like, you know, Gucci, Gucci ghost has like taken so many turns that I didn't even expect over the 10 years. But I believe in this moment, it's, it's the final piece. And I just like, am not afraid to take my next leap of faith and go, okay, I'm doing this other thing now. Like where, you know, I've been doing a lot of other things the whole time anyway, but it's like I feel like it's just another one of those moments like when I stopped snowboarding to do the music or when I stopped the music to do the, it's just like that.

It's just an honest moment of me going, yo, this is, this is a completion and I'm ready to like move on. Right. I feel like in the overall internet space, there's maybe a lot of pessimism about NFTs right now. Is that the same case in the art world? Because I kind of feel like the art world is like the best use case for a lot of the NFT stuff. The way that you talk about it is the way that if you were like somebody who wanted to invest in NFTs, that's exactly the mentality that you would want to have.

Whereas like a lot of these like influencers we've seen who do these crazy rug pulls and stuff. stuff. It's not like they ever had the right mentality of like building a long term brand through their art in the long run. How much do you think about that? Yeah, well, I mean, from jump, like I said, I just, I viewed it as a way to connect with people and I was just, you know, it's, it's been honest because it's my art and it's just a way to translate it into the digital space, which I feel like I've done the whole entire time. Every time I make a piece, I take a photo of it. We upload it to social media. We do these digital kind of translate it. We do these digital kind of translations where I really I fuck with it. I think it's awesome. I think there is there was a lot of

skepticism from the art world, you know, coming into this because I remember being one of the first artists coming out doing this like a lot of my peers that I'm like, dude, you should do NFT. It's really dope. Like it's a it's its own medium. Like it's a really rad way to share your art and and participate. in it forever. And like a lot of people were like hesitant at first because they're like, but I'm like viewed as this fine artist and how is it. But now it's like completely changed. You go to an art fair. You go to like a museum. You go to any like fine art establishment. There is a NFT component. Christie's Sotheby's like everybody's in the game because they know

it's not going anywhere. NFT is going to be a part of our future. It's going to be not only just with art. to be a part of brand. It's going to be a part of like just our access to, you know, to be a part of no jumper. It'll be a part of everything. That's how I see it. And, uh, but yeah, there's a lot of people that jump in on the hype and they just try to make a quick buck and they're not really in it. They're not using it as a medium. They're not like pushing it forward. They're not like, just like people try to do with anything music fashion art whatever you see somebody that goes oh wow like this person made a million dollars doing this oh okay i'm going to do that same fucking thing or i'm going to whatever and it's not it's not authentic it's not felt it doesn't last but nfts will and the artists that are

really um using it correctly and are pushing it forward and being progressive they will too have you got to the point of buying NFTs from other artists? I kind of trade. It's kind of like artists trade, you know? Like even like with paintings and stuff, I don't really buy too much. Things that I like are people that I admire. We usually, yeah, like make a trade, you know? That makes sense for sure.

So what are you excited about now? And how do you imagine the next 10 years of your life going down? shit um well i don't really think that far ahead i i kind of i stay somewhat in the present moment but um just staying creative you know like living my life as a creative and coming up with ideas and having visions and chasing that and finding a way to bring it to life you know that's my mission in life and and being a dad, you know? Yeah. The dad thing is fucked up because you spend your whole life building these things,

whether it's you with the art or me with this podcast, whatever. Like you build these things that realistically are very unique. You know, nobody else has had the career that you have or I had. And then you become a dad, which is one of the most common experiences for all humans throughout history is really not like me or you as dads. It's very simple in comparison to, you know, everything else that we've done is entirely unique. But at a certain point, you're forced to realize that the kid's shit is more important than everything else that you've done creatively or whatever, even though it's this very, very incredibly common experience. Yeah, it's the greatest creation ever that you can, yeah, it's bigger than anything.

It's bigger than everything. I could never understand that before I had kids. people talk to me about they're having kids and I'll be like anyway. Yeah, like whatever. But like, yeah, it is, it's, it's, but everything that we've done as creatives and entrepreneurs and stuff, it does, it's not as big, but it's a part of providing and allowing our children to like, you know, live a certain life and being able to expose them to things. and which is super special.

And I think like doing something unique in life that is very inspiring to children, you know, and breaking the mold of like the general society way of living your life that you have to like live within these boundaries. And, you know, I've kind of always gone against that. And maybe it was from being told I couldn't make that soccer team. I don't know. It's just, that's the way I'm living. Like, to give a kid an incredible upbringing is, you know, that's one of the greatest things that you could do.

Oh, that is. Even to just give your kid a decent upbringing is an incredible gift to them because so many people that have on the podcast have fucking horror stories about what their childhoods were like. So to have a childhood for your kid where they're able to travel and be exposed to art and all this creativity and everything. I mean, that's pretty much, it's pretty incredible. like because then all that investment into showing them that stuff then at some point you get to look at them as an adult and see what all that time and effort you put into them has kind of yielded in terms of their personality and what they're capable of yeah yeah exactly now we're talking about kids like yeah i was just not to say man bro stop because people are going to be like if they don't have kids they're going to be like yeah no that's real man it's so real and it is it is the most beautiful inspiring thing to be

a dad and to try to do the best for your children and not, you know, have them necessarily share the great things that you've experienced in your life and not the shitty, traumatic shit that you've gone through and, you know, do your best to just be a great dad. 100%. If you had some advice for creatives out there, whether it's music, art, whatever, like, what would be the words that you'd want to leave them with in terms of if they want to, you know, create something awesome out of their life? Right. Well, I guess that the main thing I could say is just, and I said it earlier, is just when you lose in track of time doing something, then you know that you're going in the right direction and you should probably pursue that and really go as hard as you can to find a way to get the people around you that you need around you to like bring that vision and that feeling that you have when you're like, man, I love doing this.

and bringing it to the surface, you know, because you can do it. It's just that sometimes, you know, it takes like getting a few people around you that, that have that same mentality and they can see it in you too where they, you know, you get that encouragement and you get that support and, and, and then just like be relentless and consistent and almost repetitive until you get it. You know what I mean? 100% for sure. I appreciate you, man. Yeah, I appreciate you too.

Yeah, of course. Pleasure. I do this for years. We did like a real life version of this conversation a few years back. So it's cool to get the on-camera version. Cool, man. Yeah. It's my pleasure.

No doubt, man. Come by anytime. Trouble, Andrew. Appreciate you, man. Yep. No jumper. Coolest podcast in the world. Yes, most definitely.

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