No Jumper - The Wayno Interview

Episode Date: September 24, 2019

Wayno has a fascinating come up! From the mail room to Roc-A-Fella, having a defining conversation with Jay-Z to becoming his own boss, Wayno is now the host of Everyday Struggle and operates as VP at Asylum Records while being the happiest he's ever been. --- FOLLOW OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST! https://spoti.fi/2vi9lsD CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz Follow us on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nojumper and iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-jumper/id1001659715?mt=2 and follow us on Social Media: http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm follow Adam22 as well: http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 and follow adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jump, coolest podcast in the world. And today I'm with the one and only Wayno. How you feeling, man? Man, I feel, I'm honored to be here. I'm excited. I was looking up Wayno interview today, and I feel like there's still a lot of room for us to produce, like, the ultimate breakdown of who Wayno is as a person for the people out there.

There's a lot of people who watch you all the time, and they don't really know anything about your background. I'm a little limited in my knowledge of your background, so I think this will be very valuable. No, absolutely. It's a lot of people that only know me for certain things. So they might know me for this, but they know I did that.

They knew me for this, but didn't know I was attached to that. Like, so it's a, it's a puzzle. It's definitely a puzzle. Let's dive right into this to start things off. Yeah. You hang out with academics four days a week at four o'clock in the morning. What time do you get up? I get up like 5.4.

Well, I get up at 545. They send a car to my crib at 545. So that's my alarm clock. I get up at like 6. Like, I get up around like 620, 615. I'll be out there was probably 630. Is that the most rich you feel in an average week is when that car picks you up? And it's like, damn.

This is a life. Nah, man. I feel rich with my kids, man. My kids make me feel that one for a real. But I'm trying to get rich, for real. Like, I'm trying to get on my shit. Was it hard to get into that mind state of getting up super early to do that job, though?

No, not really, because I always had job. Like, I always, like, I grew up. My mom's was a job developer. So, like, I learned to get up. And even though I didn't finish school and shit, like I learned getting up responsibility. I had many jobs. Like, I've done a lot of shit in life.

You know what I mean? Gotten up for good. reasons and bad reasons. So I don't got no problem getting up in the morning. Okay. So as long as we're staying on this topic, though, like let's just talk about like you getting the everyday struggle gig, what it was like, because, you know, it's just weird to think. There was that period of sort of turmoil. There was a lot of guest hosts. You were doing it for a while before. You were the official host, right? Yeah, yeah, for a little second. Star had his period. When did you even start having the conversation about becoming the

co-host? Well, let me tell you this, Adam. Like, I never in my life ever imagined being on camera for nothing. I, like, the way I came up, I wanted to be a behind the scenes guy. And I was a behind the scenes guy. And I was being successful. I was behind the scenes guy. That's interesting because nobody ever fucking wants to be the behind scenes guy. Everybody want to be the rapper. As soon as I hear a kid say that they want to be the behind the scenes guy, immediately very optimistic about their career. Well, I wanted to be a rapper when I was a kid. But like, I grew up around a lot of like, a lot of my homies I grew up with was rappers. And like, once they started having success, I didn't want that. And then like,

when I was a teenager, I was like, I was at Rockefeller. Like my late teens. teenage early 20s years. So that was my time to kind of try to jump on camera, being people videos and shit. And then I didn't get, I didn't make anything out of it. So I was like, you know what? Maybe I just need to fall back, you know, focus on getting one thing right and then just do that. But like how I even got on there, I don't know.

Like, I mean, I do know. But it's funny because everybody was telling me like, yo, after Joe left, I didn't want to watch the show tomorrow. I was like me either. You know what I mean? Like, honestly, like Joe, my man. And like, when he left the show, I just was like, the fuck is going to happen. That's big shoes to fill.

He's arguably one of the best dudes at talking about rap in the game. Absolutely, I definitely give him that. But like, I didn't look, see, because it wasn't something that I was trying to do, I didn't look at it as shoes to fill. Like I literally, I got it, like, me and the desk, we got a really good relationship. Because like when I was managing, like, certain artists and shit, she used to, uh, she interviewed a few of them. So, you know, one day, I always hit her up.

Just same way, like, I always hit you up. How you doing? I help on some what's up shit. She's like, I'm good. She was like, yo, um, you should come through the debate. I'm like, word. All right, cool. I go through the first day of the show.

And then they was like, that's the most fun we had in a long time. And I was like, I don't know what that's supposed to mean. Went home. And then she hit me and chops the producer. He hit me. They both hit me like, yo, would you come back? And I'm like, come back for what? And then they like, yo, we want you to come back.

And I'm like, all right. And we did the guest host thing. And then I think Joe was, Joe was having conversations with them about potentially coming back. And it was around the time where he was figuring out his revolt shit. And this was, I was already on the show when this happened. You know what I mean? I was already on a show with Star. And then they told me like, yo, you know, it's a chance that Joe might come back.

If he doesn't, you know, we want to explore some things. I'm like, cool, it's ancillary for me because I never wanted to do this ever in life. And then, you know, the first pull-up ever that Joe did, Joe asked me to come to his crib and I did that. And we had a conversation and he was like, yo, I ain't going to lie. Like, I like seeing you on there and I think you're doing good. I think you should go with it. I'm going to go do this revolt thing.

And I'm like, shit, like, to get the blessing from, like, that's my dog. So, like, to get that from him, it's just kind of lifted a weight off my shoulder. It's like, I didn't have no shoes to fill. That's actually really cool to hear because I always wasn't really sure what note that was left on. Because I think in the past I heard Joe say that he hadn't seen an episode of everyday struggles since he left. And I was wondering if that was some sort of low-key shade, as in that he didn't even care enough to check one out. Yeah, I mean, he was, like, what's funny was, like, when I first got this crib that day, he said, I can't shit on complex, you know what I mean?

Because you're my dog and you on there. So, like, we got that, like, we've had a good report. Like, when I was working at Rockefellers, when Joe was at Def Jam. So I've known him for years. And then, like, through Twitter is how we really got more cool. And then, like, I just started being around him a little bit more. You know what I mean? And he was like, he said it.

He was like, yo, you doing good on that shit. Like, and I think you should stick with it. So it was kind of dope. You know what I mean? To get that from him. It's just so interesting because everybody is out here just having conversations about rap. Like everybody, you know, there's probably fucking 100 dudes that in your life you sat down and ended up talking about rap for an hour. But then just the idea of then doing it on camera, was that just like kind of weird to you to even be considered somebody that was good enough at talking about rap that they wanted you to do it on camera and get paid for it?

Yo, I swear, Adam, like, I ain't going to front. So that shit kind of came right on time for me because it was like I was transitioning out of managing Davies. I mean, I was transitioning out of that. And like, I was good, but like I needed to figure out what my next thing was going to be. And like right around when that came, it was right on time. I didn't even, it came so fast for me. I couldn't even think of none of that shit. I just was like, all right, well, I don't really know.

Like, I'm in the barbershop talking with my niggas. For years, we talked shit about rap music. I used to get on Instagram live and do this thing called Free Throws. where I used to like talk with everybody and just talk about like how they could get on their game and get into the game. And I used to talk about music on there too. And it kind of like just the Instagram live shit kind of built a little platform for me for the people that follow me. So I didn't have a problem like just speaking. I don't have a problem speaking.

But like to do it on a level where now when I walk outside, motherfuckers is stopping me like, yo, can I take a picture? I never imagine that. So I kind of got thrown in the middle of the ocean and had to swim the shore. It's like, so you're telling me that you think I'm that much better at talking about rap at the barbershop than all these other guys in the barbershop. That's kind of an overwhelming idea at first. But I didn't even, like, because that's just what I do. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, I'm from Harlem. Well, I'm from the Bronx and I'm from Harlem. You know what I mean? We argue about fucking rap. We argue about sports. We argue about the streets. Your shirt looks stupid, you know? The color of your shirts, your sneakers, your jagged, whatever.

I've been doing that shit since high school. So it's like second nature to just debate. My mom used to tell me when I was. kid like, yo, you should join a debate team. Because once I became a teenager, I started questioning everything. So me and my mom used to have back and forth. She's like, you should join a fucking debate team. You want to talk so much.

That's a good sign. Because I was always that kid, too, that I'd be arguing. My mom always goes, why do you always want to argue with me about religion at six in the morning? You know, I feel that that's a really good sign when you're questioning and everything and you want to have conversations. Like, so did you consider yourself a smart kid, like your whole childhood? Or is that something you kind of blossomed into at a certain point?

Fuck no, dog. So I didn't, I thought I was, you know what it was? I really used to think I was stupid because I thought I was stupid because like I wasn't as good as everybody else academically. So I thought that like I really believed for a long time like if you excel academically, then you're smart. I really believed that because I had like self-esteem issues when I was younger. Only because like certain shit that teacher said to me. Like I always joke about it but I feel like I should have been a special way. Really?

Only because, like, especially where I was a more condensed class. I couldn't focus in a room with 35 kids. Like, I wanted to play, daydream and shit. But everything you're saying there sounds pretty conducive to you eventually going on to getting a job doing something creative that you weren't necessarily comfortable of being constrained and in this box because I felt the same exact way. Yo, no bullshit. I used to draw when I was a kid.

Same. Constantly. Yo, I would wake up. I would take all my comic books. I would wake up 9 o'clock in the morning on a Saturday. This one, like 7, 8, 9, 10 years old. And I would draw. I'm talking about from 9 in the morning

until 10 at night, just draw. And they wanted to put me in like schools to drawing shit. But then my mom started telling me I'm going to go to school for drawing. I was like, I don't want to do it. Really? Because I didn't want to do it for my leisure.

I didn't want to do it to make nobody else like happy. Like, I wanted to draw fucking X-Men all day and Spider-Man. Once they started telling me draw shit in geometrical shapes and I'm like, I don't want to draw that shit. That's not fun. Same exact way.

I was so into drawing comic book characters, but then I got a book that showed you how to like draw all the shapes before you actually start drawing the body. And it was so offensive to me to think that I had to learn this like technical thing to do this. That's why I'm not. That's why I don't work for the MCU. Like if I could have did that shit, maybe I could have went on to do something like that. Right.

So I had, I didn't think I was smart. But you know what was show me was when I was like a teenager and I started trying to get into the streets. And like I would be around like 40, 40 niggas and like I'm smarter than all of them and I'm not the leader. So I used to, like, I'm around all these people that's telling me to do stupid shit and we're doing stupid shit together and I'm smarter than them, but I'm not even a person leading them. So that's what kind of like the streets, like being in the streets and like I drank gangs and shit when I was younger. And that taught me structured ironically. Like you're not supposed to learn structure, but it taught me a lot about order and like protocol and how to deal with shit. You know what I mean?

Was your idea of the streets though, just straight up that you were going to be selling small amounts of drugs on the? street or was it more about just having a much of homies around? No, I was, I was, I went, I got into gangs in the streets because I was pussy. Keep it 100, like as a man, I could say that. Like now, I like, I'm not, but when I was younger, I moved, like, when I moved the Harlem, I grew up in a place in the Bronx where it wasn't like, it wasn't really bad. Like, it bad shit happened, but it wasn't really bad. And then, like, I was a kid.

So when I moved to Harlem, gangs hit really heavy and drugs was really heavy. And I got to go, like, now I could open up the door. and go outside. So I got to figure out, like, how I'm surviving this. So my thing was, like, I got to attach myself to certain things or certain people in order for me to make it home, because that's what was happening. People was getting hurt. So I kind of joined in the shit that I didn't want to be into just to kind of get by.

But, like, the crazy thing about that is when I started hanging around all these dudes, they liked me for me. They didn't like me because I was a part of what they was a part of. They just liked me for me. So that kind of helped me in a sense, too, when I was transitioning out of a lot of that shit. Okay, I got you. Yeah, so like the personality just sort of shine through. I couldn't stand on my own, too. Like, I ain't gonna lie. I didn't really have a lot of stability. Like, for five years, I lived in five different places and went to five different schools.

So I didn't. Your family was moving around? Yeah, but not for bad reasons. Like, I grew up, like, in the Bronx, I was like, when I was born, I lived in the same building from where I was born to, I was, like, graduating from fifth grade. And in fifth grade, my mom, like, got a better job. We moved, like, a mile down, like, to the other side of town. Then sixth grade, she had my, well, fifth grade, she had my little sister. Sixth grade, her, my little sister father, like, we're going to move to Maryland. We move to Maryland for a year. Seventh grade, I do seven grade all in Maryland. They break up. We got to move back to New York. Come back eighth grade. And we went through the shelter system. Going through the shelter system,

that shit was tough. And then graduating from eighth grade, going to ninth grade, we get out the shelter system. Now it's time for us to move somewhere else. So just a whole lot of instability. So you didn't really feel too secure or safe in your surroundings. Nah, not really, because I don't, I got, like, out of kids, like, my dad got eight kids. I'm number six out of eight, and I don't really know, like, my older siblings and shit. Like, I just got cool with one of my old siblings this year that I only met him one time of my life. You know what I mean? So I didn't really, I didn't have nobody.

I could, I get into a fight. I couldn't call no big brother. I couldn't call no, so. I mean, you say pussy, like, you were pussy. But at the same time, I mean, in that environment, in New York, especially when you haven't been around all these dudes, 100% growing up there and everything. I mean, it's very understandable. There's a lot to be scared of.

Let me not say put. I just was like, I want to say pussy because I don't want a kid to see this and think that you just, like, you just, it's like you, you, I just wasn't confrontational. Now my thing was I would fight, but I was in an instigator. Like I just wanted to have fun and draw, draw fucking cartoons and play video games and ride bikes. I didn't want to get into no problems.

But the thing was, it was like I also wouldn't run from a problem. And I just was like, you know what? if I'm thinking like this. Also, I'm going through shit with my mom. I'm becoming a teenager. I think I'm a man. I think I know everything because my dick get hard. Like, you know what that shit is?

Like, you start getting a little bit of pussy as a teenager. Now you don't master the world. So, like, I was just a little bit confused. And I was like, I'm a man. And I did want to sell drugs because, like, a lot of my friends, like, when I moved to that neighborhood, I grew up on the east side of Harlem. And when I moved over there, every other 13-year-old, they all. sell crap. They all buying their own Jordans. They all...

It was really like that? They felt like everybody was selling crap. Listen, if you're from Harlem, like my era of Harlem. So like my era, I moved to Harlem in 96, but I was going there a lot when I was a kid because my grandfather lived there. But my era of Harlem, you either go to school, you play basketball or you sell drugs. That's it. There is no nothing else. Like everybody, you get money, you either getting money or you playing ball. If you don't succeed in ball, then you end up selling drugs. If you You don't end up, like, nobody I was around went to college. I'm like the most successful person in my family on my high school dropout.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that shit is crazy. But that's what I was around. So like I'm around a kid and think about this. Like I come home from school and got no money. My man twin, right? I asked my man twin.

He was like, it was like three sets of twins on my block, but this one sets of twins. He's selling crack. I'm like, yo, I'm hungry. He's like, yeah, he's like, let's go to Burger King. I'm like, I ain't got no money. He like, don't worry about it. We go to Burger King. Some chick come bring us a bunch of big ass bag of fucking Burger King.

Give it to us. I'm like, how do you get that? He's like, I'd be selling her crows. Like, I'm like, what? Like, I'm like, that's crazy, you know what I mean? Then, yo, I ain't going to friend. I seen, I seen a dude on my block, a white dude coming on my block and sell Alexis for $60 for $60 for $1,000 for $1.60 for a bunch of $15.00. What?

That's serious. Just because he needed drugs that bad? Yeah. So my man, we look in the car, he's like, he like, who car is this? He's like, it's my wife car. We look as a junior mafia city in there. We're like, you know, your wife ain't listening to no fucking junior mafia. My man's like, fuck it.

They bought the car. They joy rode around in that shit before they crashed and just love it. What the fuck. You know what I mean? But that's how growing up in Harlem was. And then I grew up on a block where that blood shit hit heavy. So it's like, you got to figure out what you're going to do when you come outside. Like what year?

Like, was it deaf stuff? Making it cool? Nah, it wasn't no dipset. Okay. Cam wasn't even out as a rap at that time. In 96, yeah, he didn't come on until like 2001. 98, 98 is when you got to start. 2002 was when...

For me on the East Coast, Cameron happened in 2002 with Hey, Ma. What? We didn't really know about him before that. I mean, if I had been paying a little more attention, I want to know. I mean, Kim dropped his first album in 98. Yeah. I mean, like, I just wasn't into it. Confessions of fire.

Yeah. But, yeah, so, like, now, I wasn't dipset making it cool. It just was like, see, the shit is the gang shit. In New York, it started in prison. So like, it's dudes coming up from out of prison into the streets and implementing that mentality on the youngings. So like, it's really ruthless. Like, where I grew up at was crazy.

Like, I didn't even know what fucking, I didn't even know what trauma meant until like four years ago. I'm 36 years old. So it's mad shit I've seen as a kid. That you can only now identify as trauma. Yeah, I didn't even know, because it's like, it's stuff that bothering me every day. Like, I think about certain shit and it'd be like, I could just be having a good day and I might, I walk past, I go somewhere and I walk past and it triggers me as something that

I seen when I was a kid. Right. And I just be like, damn, that's kind of like, I see it. But I didn't know that like I should have talked about or talk to a person about the things I seen when I was a kid. You just live to go on with it. Like, you know, it's like not a thing. When I think about Manhattan, the most cops of anywhere I ever been in my life.

Is it crazy being a low-level criminal in Harlem trying to get your fucking rocks off every day? And you got this much level of surveillance, especially, I mean, this is years ago, but Still. Well, I mean, I ain't gonna lie, yo, my block, like, I've seen a lot of people like get crazy money on my block, but they also caught crazy indictments. Like, it's like, it goes hand in hand. It's like, like, selling drugs is like getting foul playing basketball. You know what's gonna happen, you just don't know to the degree at a level, and you don't

know the repercussions of it. You might get fouled and get knocked the fuck out and catch a concussion, or you might get fouled and be able to shoot some free throws and still play. That's how that shit is. Like, I've seen a lot of my friends, like, they was going to jail and a in high school, like they're going to jail for selling crack, going to do a month and spawn for it, coming home. And all going to, like, eventually end up going to Rikers, coming home.

You know what I mean? So it was like a revolving door. Like, the place that I grew up at in Harlem is nicknamed Convick Alley because in all of New York in like a certain parameter of proximity, it's the most repeat offenders in all in New York. So I grew up in a place where you're more likely to go to jail, come home in six months, or come home and go back to jail for whatever you did or something worse in six months. And I had to figure out how am I going to live?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, how am I going to get past this? Right. You know, so. So when you start to think that this wasn't for you and how long did it take before you started fucking music industry? Was that the first legit stuff that you started to do? No, I was always like, I was working like little regular jobs. Like, even with me, like, I would never sit here and proclaim that I was like, I was on my block moving this and moving that.

The most I did on my block was look out. I looked out for people a couple times, get a couple of times. get a couple dollars doing that. You know what I mean? And then I started selling like little weed and dabbling a little shit like that and then later on tried to fuck with other stuff. But that was kind of a rebellion.

Like I really got into the streets too as a rebellion of my dad because my dad is like one of the most respected street dudes in the Bronx. But he kept, he never like, he told me not to do something, but why not? Like he never told me don't do it because it is. He just said, don't do it because I'm your father

and I didn't live with him. Right. So I just was like, I'm not listening to you. Wow. So you always had a weird perspective on street shit because you knew that your dad was kind of famous for this? At the time, like my dad,

like I didn't know what my dad. My dad was a number runner. So my dad used to run numbers and shit, but then I found out that my dad was known for all types of shit. But like when I'm finding this out, he's still trying to hide it from me. I'm 13 years old.

Like you can't hide shit. Kids are smarter than the parents thinking. I'm a parent. Like kids are smarter than you think. And he was trying to hide certain shit for me. And I was like, why the fuck I'm going to listen to you and you doing everything you're telling me not to do? You know what I mean? So it was kind of rebellion to my dad. You got to give kids. You have to give them the full argument. You got to really try to explain shit to them

because then someday somebody's going to try to get them to go the other way. And you want to give them the full tool chest if possible for them to understand why they should make the right decision. But I understand why they don't. Like now that I'm a man, I understand why my dad That didn't is because like I view my dad is like, like, even though we didn't, I didn't live with him, he was like the most, he meant the most, the man that meant the most to me in my life. So it was like, I didn't, he didn't want to tell me shit because I guess he didn't want me to view him a certain way. You know what I mean?

So I respect it now, but it's just confusing when you were a teenager and you're trying to figure out, I told, like, every year I only had like one friend. You know what I mean? I only had like one best friend. I didn't have a crew of friends I was around until I started fucking around with like gang shit. So it was like, I didn't, I had no stability. So I'm looking for you to like, yo, you know what I mean? And I'm not getting that. You know what I'm saying? So I did it as a rebellion, but I started to transition to doing other stuff when I got like 17, 18. But my mom,

like she helped me get like summer jobs and shit. So I did summer jobs and stuff like that. And so who in the music side of thing? So it was the first opportunity you got or the first thing you did? Shit. I mean, working in the mailroom. At the Rock. Well, not at the Rock. I worked in the mailroom where Rockefeller was. So I worked in the mailroom. Rockefeller was even my floor to deliver to.

So you had nothing to do with Rockefeller. You were just working in the mailroom coincidentally? So, yeah. All right, so look, you've seen the movie backstage before? I can't remember. So backstage is Jay-Z going on a Hard Knock Life tour. He takes DMX and Red Man and Metham Man, and they do this big-ass tour for all these crazy dates and all that shit.

And that movie came out in 2000. I was 17 at the time. I seen that movie. And when I seen that movie, I said, I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do, but I'm going to get in this shit. And I had dropped out of high school. And my mom was like, you listen, I don't mind if you're not going to go to school right now, cool, but you got to do something. I'm not going to be coming home, cooking, cleaning, and you just sit on your ass all day. So I had got a job interview.

I ended up getting a job. The two places I was supposed to get that I had to not pick from, but it was like three places. It was 825, 8, 8th, 5, no way I ended up going. some other place in fucking World Trade Center. Exactly. Wow. And this is 2000. Holy shit.

So I'm 17, so I get... So you feel like you're meant to be here. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I absolutely could have went... It was people that when we all took the test, they was, oh, you're going to World Trade Center. You know what I'm saying? So I get the job.

My first day, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just delivering mail. And they take me up on the floor. They're showing me the ropes. And I come around. floor and I see like the whole corner of the floor is like red. It's just red and all these posts and it says murder ink and I'm like I'm like I'm like why I'm a kid I'm 17 I'm like why the fuck is all this murder ink stuff in here this a building like so they like we we do that and

then we go to another floor and then I go to the 27th floor murder ink was on 20th floor and I go to 27 floor and it's death jam and I'm like and I'm like oh what is all of this stuff here like I just see a Def Jam logo, I'm like, what is this? Like, I still don't know where I'm at. And then the guy's like, yo, this is where all the record labels are. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, you serious? Yeah, so that was like working in the mailroom.

But the way I got my first, first start was... Start selling Memphis Bleak's checks. I wish Bleak was getting it back there. But now, Omie Ely McIntar, she worked for Jay-Z's fan club called Fanfam and her and Dara. Dara worked at Rockefeller, Omi ran Jay's fan club, fan fam. and like they would ship out, you know, this is no internet at this time. So this is like kids is writing in letters saying, I love Jay-Z, send me a t-shirt or some shit, and I'm helping them pack T-shirts after work.

Because I was a kid, like, I was the youngest person there. Everybody else was like in their 20s. I was the youngest person in there, so they would let me help out after work. End up getting fired from the mailroom a year later. What for? It was a box that was supposed to go to Def Jam that this dude he left on the floor for me in the freight area. And I forgot that it was there.

You know, whatever's left in the freight area gets to. thrown out and it was contracts and shit. So all that shit got thrown out and then like the hammer came down. They like whoever was involved got to get fired. It wasn't even his fault, you know what I mean? He got fired and I got fired. But when I got fired, I worked at a fucking sneaker store around my block for like a couple months.

And then I hit my home girl up who now is Sherry Bryant, the president of the Rock Nation. She was an assistant to an assistant at Rockefeller. And I just asked her. Like, we ran the same age. I'm like, yo, can I just help you? Could I come there help every day? I didn't even know what the internship was. I just like, can I help?

She's like, yeah, come through. So that was my start. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, that was the start. A lot of people wouldn't want to just go help out for free, but you definitely saw the long-term benefit? I don't know what the fuck. I just didn't, yo, I swear to got.

So look, around this time, this one I'm like 19 now. Like, this is like one of my first friends ever had in my life. He got murdered. You know what I mean? So he got killed. and then like, like just a lot of friends I had was going to jail. And I was like, I want to do something because I knew that if I didn't find something to do, then I was going to be back into what I was trying to get away from, what was the streets.

So I just wanted to do something. I wanted to do anything. I didn't give a fuck. Like my first three months of being at Rockefeller, I just used to get people food. I didn't do anything. Like, end up getting an assistant A&R position like six months in them. Really? How do you prove yourself?

I got cool with Chris and Nee from the Young Guns. So we all the same age. So, like, you know, the Young Guns at the time, we was like, damn, was we 17? No, I think I might have been 18 at this time, man. Y'all was 18 at the time. Not when he died, but, like, yeah, 18. So I just was like, yo, one day I found Beanie Seagoo's mother's name on a piece of paper. And I just, I like the Young Guns and I liked all the Philly artists so much.

And I felt like they wasn't doing nothing. And so I called, I just, I could have got fucking expelled from everything for doing this. But I picked up the phone and I called Beanie Sigel moms. And I was like, hey, Miss Michelle. My name is Wayno. You know, I'm interning up at Rockefeller. And I just wanted to call you because I like all the guys from Philly. And I feel like they could be doing more.

And I want to know if I could help. And she was like, I feel like they could be doing more too. Every mom ever. Every mom to every rapper. Yeah, she's like, I feel like they could be doing more too. So I just took a shot and called her. And we sat on the phone. for maybe 20 minutes and she said, I want you to go to the studio and you tell them that I sent

you there. And I'm like, all right. And I went to the studio and then like I was just sitting around and then like... Your mom's told me to pull off. Now, I got in trouble for that shit too. You did? Yeah, because I'm going to the studio and like, I'm just pulling up at the studio and like Jay is in there, fucking Kanye is in there doing beats, the young guns is in there playing pool, Beanie Seagoo in the other room and just blazing other room and I'm just a kid just sitting there with nothing to do. So everybody's like, Who the fuck told this kid? Like, I know, like, it used to be days I come in there and like Jay or Biggs, they

just would look at me, like, who the fuck let this kid in here? Or Dame, like, they'd be like, who let this kid in here? And I used to do dumb shit, like, say shit to them, like, yo, so, and they just would look at me like, what the fuck through this kid think he is? It's hard for a lot of young kids probably to understand that when you're in that environment, then if you start asking some fan-ass questions, it's so weird when, especially in like a studio where this rapper feels like he's just working, like, center of the fucking universe right now and for then someone to bring in that weird energy.

Yeah. So did you piss anyone off or what happened? Of course I pissed people off, yo. I remember one night I went there and like the next day I go to the office and Shari was like, do not go to the studio again. Don't go. She just kept touch. She's like, do not go to the studio. Don't go to studio. She kept telling me that. I'm like, all right. So I'm like, I'm not going to go. And then one day somebody was like, I think young Chris was going on prom and somebody was like, yo, we We need you to go to Louis Vuitton and pick up a jacket we brought for him. So I went, I picked up the jacket and I brought it back.

And then me and him just was chilling and talking that day. And then like I said, we was all around the same age. And it was like, they was heavy in the streets, like crazy. And I was like, was kind of getting off of that, trying to get off of that, but I'm around them. So I'm like, fuck it. I just started hanging around them. And then like once I got in with them, that was it.

I started working on their mixtape, started working on state property albums. And then Beanie Siegel took a liking to me. and Beanie Sigel got really, really tight. You know what I mean? I became Muslim being around him. Really? Yeah. Wow.

So it was like, it was a learning experience, but. If I hung around Beanie Sigel enough, I'd probably be Muslim too, man. I'd be kind of scared. He'd take shit real serious. Now, I ain't going to lie, man. It's so funny. Like, I remember, like, I was, I think I did Charlemais' podcast. He asked me a crush about Beanie Sigoo.

He said, well, he had did something to me. I said, yo, like, in his day, he did something and nobody would have helped you, bro. Really? Yeah, he was, I ain't going to. front, I watched men tremble in his presence. Really? Yeah. He's a terrifying guy, huh?

I mean, at that time, yeah. Was he on mad drugs at that time when you were hanging out of him, too? Nah, like, you know what's crazy? It's like, they all smoke, and they did drink, they drink syrup and shit. Because Beanie was a very early guy on East Coast lean drinking. He was talking about it, but nobody knew who he was talking about. I didn't even know what he was talking about until I started seeing him do it. But it was, like, you see out now, it could be a bunch of chicks in the room, everybody

pouring up. They didn't do, it was like a private thing. So it was like, guys stuff. Y'all got to go out the room. Like, yeah. The definition of guy stuff. Like, for real. No girls allowed.

Stay away. Now, y'all got to get out the room. When time I had some girls pull up to my crib and they had lean, I'm like, I don't, that is the most ratchet thing I've seen. Girls are not supposed to have lean. If you do, you're a killer. That lien is a motherfucker. It really is. Yeah, I tried fucking with that shit too and that shit.

Like, just being curious, fucking around and there's not nothing to play with, you know. But yeah, he's like, we used. At that time, Beans was like, he was a force to be reckoned on every level, on the music level, on the street level, you know what I mean? The crazy, confirm this for me. Because Beanie Seaghan, when we're talking about, he's like one of the best rappers of that era by far. Absolutely.

Is it true that Jay just saw him on a stoop in Philly or some shit and just walked up to him and just kind of knew that he was going to be, that he could be a dope rapper? No. Well, I wasn't around at that time. I was way younger than that when he got around him. But the story is that his brother named Sadeek from Philly, and he knew Jay in them or whatever, and he brought Beans up. You know what I mean? He brought Beans up, and the Beans just rap for Jay for like,

hour and some shit. And then he was like, and then he put him on Reservoir Dogs and some shit like that. Somebody told me that Jay just knew that he could be a great rapper before he even heard him rap. And I'm like, that seems so improbable that he then would actually be as good as he was. Yeah, I don't know. I know Beans like, man, he's a, yo, he used to tell me that he used to write, he used to rap in his sleep. And I didn't believe. I lived with him. Like, when he was a house arrest fighting his attempted murder charge,

like, I lived with him and he really do rap in his sleep. Wow. Like, he'd be sleep and he'd be saying, like, certain words, and then he'd walk around the house saying it, and then, like, one day he record,

and he just said the shit, you heard him saying in the sleep. You know what I mean? But he's special with that shit. When you look at somebody like being his career, how do you feel about him not really having made it

or never really got to the level that it was supposed to, right? Like, he has a huge amount of respect, but he was never really able to transfer that into, like, record sales and stuff, shit at that time. Well, he sold records. Like, that's the thing. He did sell records. Like, he was, yo, he might have been Richard and majority of people around in his class that was selling

records because I don't know how Rockefeller had it set up, but you sell a certain amount and you was good. And he was, he had fucking two Bentley's big ass hot. Like, he was living great. And he did go gold on every album he ever put out. He wasn't a platinum selling artist, but gold, I mean, now a new artist like TECA, whoever, go gold. We're like, oh, shit, a kid sells 65,000 records the first week. That's big. Jada Kiss was selling fucking $240,000 the first week. And people, because it was in that era, nobody don't give a fuck. Nobody don't look like, look at it that way.

Yeah, you need like a nation streaming your project, though, to equal out to like a quarter million actual CD sales. It got to be crazy now. But I mean, like with Beans, I just, I'm not disappointed for him. I wish it could have been better. You know what I mean? But he did accomplish a lot. You know what I mean? He accomplished a lot.

But I think a lot that didn't go right with him was because he was in knowledge. you're doing certain things, like on certain levels. Like, he did know a lot of stuff, but just when it came to business, I think he was a little bit late learning business. And I didn't learn that until I got older. Because I thought he knew everything when I was his little men is up under him. You know what I mean? But once he, like, once I got older and started learning a business, I'm like, oh, he didn't

know that. Or he didn't know that. Or he might have just been a little bit reckless with this, but, you know, it's a learning curve. So you're A&R at Rockefeller and you're mostly dealing with Chris and Neef and Beanie? Or, like, what are your roles at that time? How are you making yourself useful? Well, I'm doing, at this time, I'm just doing whatever is asking me.

But, like, I'm, I started going. So the way I got really good in with the Philly dudes is my man Ryan Press. Ryan is, like, right now he's the fucking president of Warner Chapel publishing. But at the time, like, he had a, his crib was a studio. And he managed a producer by the name of Chad West. And they produced all the, like, they was the guys in Philly. So, like, if you was an up-and-comer rapper in Philly, you went over there to do records. So I got, I like befriended them and I became like they little homie.

So I'm making sure that there's some synergy between, you know, Oskino or Sparks like or P.D. Crack and all of them with Chad West and Ryan. And when it's time for us to pick songs for the albums, I'm picking songs like Biggs and Beans them. They letting me pick songs for the Young Guns album. They letting me pick songs for the State Property album. So it's like that's where my influence came up because I was the young guy. Like now I'm fucking, I'm about to be 37 in December.

Holy shit, I never would have guessed. I thought you were probably 27, 28. I'd be 37 of December. You are aging well. Thank you, man. You don't smoke cigarettes? I don't smoke nothing. There you go.

That's got to help. But I was the young guy, so like, now I keep young people around me, so I'm ahead of the curve because it's a certain shit I'm just not fucking with. You know what I mean? But they let me know what it is. Like, my son is like my A&R. Right. You know what I mean?

You were just saying that he wasn't fucking with J. stuff. He do, but not really. Like, he don't really, like, he like, his favorite rap is meek. Like, his favorite rap is meek, Drake, young thug,

fucking, uh, Dirt. Um, he, he fucked with Taka, O.D. Heavy.

Yeah, he love Tucker, yo, like, he, he fucks with, um, like,

he was the one, like, we get in the car and we going, like, to his basketball game, he wanted to throw a little pump and shit. And I'd be like,

man, I don't want to hit that shit. He'd be like, man, pump is he's like, But is he already off Pump? He don't really listen to Pump because he just was like, yo, my son, like with Pump, Pump never really made like a lot of music that he got into outside of the singles.

But he, he know more little Pump songs than I do. Right. You know what I mean? He listened to that shit. It's crazy when you got like a young kid and like you first start seeing them getting excited about rap. Yeah. It's crazy just watching it sort of play out. And just knowing that there's nothing that you could do to like shape their taste,

that they're just blossoming into it, really. No, absolutely. Like, my son, he helped me, I signed my artist, T.J. Porter. He signed a death jam because of my son. My son put me on to his music. Really? Yeah, so, like, my son was, like, every day, like, we go to his basketball because my son play balls.

So he'd be like, let me listen to T.J. Porter. Let me listen to T.J. Porter. I'm like, all right. And then one day, I was taking him and a few of his friends to a game. It's, like, five of them. They're in the car. And they all asking to listen to T. I'm like, all, I put the song on.

They singing that shit, word for word. I'm like, and at the time, my son 12 at the time he was 10. I'm like, if you got 10-year-old kids singing your shit word for word, you got something there already. How'd they even find out about him? I think they said that because TJ played basketball too, so they was like that. They was at a basketball game and somebody said he rap or he told somebody his soundcloud, so they just looked them up and they started listening to his music and sharing it amongst their friends. But when I met him, he had a song that had like 700,000 streams on SoundCloud, and all he's doing is playing basketball and going to school. Right.

You know what I mean? So I'm like, shit. Come over here. I mean, groomed him for a year and then he got signed to DevJune. That's crazy. Yeah, my son, I credit him for that shit. So what happened with the Rockefeller's shit? Like, how did you continue to grow there? Or did you just abruptly leave a certain? Nah, I mean, when Jay and Dane broke up, that was it. Yeah, what changed there? And what was your perspective on that? I was fucked up, bro. Really?

I thought, look, I wouldn't have never got fucking Harlem tattooed on my hand. Like, at the time, I'm thinking, I'm going to be at Rockefeller forever. I'm 20 years old. I'm going to Jay birthday parties, beyond. say there, fucking every actor, I'm hanging in this loop and I'm a young kid. I'm thinking this shit is never going end. And then one day, that shit just was like, boom. And so you didn't know that Jay was totally unhappy with Dame or whatever, the overall situation?

I didn't. Well, I did. Like, when I look back now, I kind of did, but didn't. Because the thing was, it was like, it came to a point when all the Cameron shit was happening and, like, Jay stopped coming to the office. And Jay used to always come to the office. Or then he would come to the office and he would go to 28, but he won't come up. 29 where Rockefeller was at.

So I, but I never thought of it. I'm just thinking, oh, Jay's busy. But then I would go to the studio with Chris and Neef and we see Jay, we'd be around Jay, but then I'd go somewhere else and we're around Dane. But I was around Dame a lot, but Dame never spoke badly about Jay when we was around him. Like, he never said nothing about what was going on. And that wasn't an epicenter of that shit. They never, like, we didn't know, it just happened.

Boom, one day, it just, and it was like, go with your mother, your father. Like, really, it was like, who do you go with it? And I didn't know what to do. I went and got a regular job again. Really? You were that disillusioned by it. You didn't try to saddle up with either camp? Nah, because you know it's another thing, too. I didn't know, I didn't like really know how to build relationships. So like at Rockefeller, we didn't really, we used to fucking everything. We didn't, a young kid that works for OVO right now, I'm pretty sure like they've got relationships, but they're thinking that that's never going to end. Like, you never think cash money is going to end at the peak of their level.

Especially on your first time being associated with something because say it's like the third label that you've been associated. with, then you start to realize, like, oh, this shit is all going to change over time. They ushered me in. I didn't know nothing else. Like, I didn't, I was, like, that's why I started. That's what I was at this time. I'm, I started there 18. At this time, I'm 22.

Yeah, 21, 22. So it's like, what the fuck else am I going to do? I don't know what to do. I'm just like, let me go get a regular job. You know what I mean? And I was like, that shit was a, that hurt. So where'd you go to work? Jamba Juice?

Fucking fresh direct. What's that? It's like this place in New York that like fill orders for fucking groceries and shit. I only did that for four days. I worked at bed bath and beyond. I worked at. You need a lot of girls doing that? And bed bath and beyond?

It was a lot of girls there, but I ain't mean no girls there. It's got to be a lot more girls than guys. I was doing overnight shift, overnight stock ain't no girls there. When it's closed? Yeah, there's not the ones you want. The other employees. But I did that. And then I did like, I worked back in the mailroom again.

I was even embarrassed to tell people I was a part of that shit because it was no Instagram. Who the fuck is gonna believe me? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm telling people like, yeah, I met Beyonce before. Yeah, right, nigga, you're lying. Like, you the fuck out of here. Where's your picture? Wow.

I mean, I didn't have pictures and then of that shit. So I just, you know, and I did that for a few years. I worked at Channel 11, which is, what the fuck is Channel 11 out here? Picks is what? Damn what the fuck is. What the fuck is? What is. Whatever it is.

I never even watched cable in LA. I've been here 10 years. Well, yeah, I did that for a bit. I got laid off from that job, rehired, and then got laid off again. And that last time I got laid off, like, I had another kid on the way. Wow, that's got to put a lot pressure on you in this shit, huh? My third, yeah. My third was on the way.

God damn. And I was 29. I had $1,000 to my name. And I said, I'm never getting a regular job ever again. I mean, I was like, I'm not, I'm going to just try my shit, I mean. So what that turned into? Like, what did you start pursuing at that point? I started my management company.

Oh, okay. I started my management company. Well, I already had the idea for it. But I tried to do street wear. Like, you know, it's crazy. I tried to do street wear for a little bit. Like, it's crazy. Like, Nipsey wore one of my hats one time.

Really? Yeah, because I met Nipsey through Smoke Dizzy. Okay. You know, smoke Dizzy. We grew up together. Really? Yeah, we know, I know Dizzy since we're like 13, 14. I kicked it with him and Duke the God and fucking hell rel and shit.

I'm in Harlem one time. They sent me an address. I showed up as these big-ass brick buildings. I'm like, where the fuck am I? Right. Right. But yeah, so Dizzy introduced me to Nipsey. You know what I mean? And then Cameron, like, Cameron was working with him at the time. He did the breakfast club. And then like she was like, bring some hats. And I brought a hat. He took pictures in it. But my street weird shit didn't work out. And then I fucking, I started the management company. Did that for a bit. Had some producers. And then like that led me to meet in like Davies. Your story is crazy because you've got a lot of like fucking horseshoe up your ass moments where you just got crazy lucky. But then you also have so many things that are just sort of like, a standard thing that you have to go through.

If you want to be a dude in the culture, you might have to have a fucking clothing brand that don't really go anywhere just to learn your lesson. I mean, the role of all out, I did tons of shit, bro. I mean, like, even being that Rockefeller, I almost went to jail, all types of shit. Like, we was reckless, yo. The young guns, we was young guns. We was carrying guns everywhere. Like, we was wilding.

You know what I mean? Like, Neef caught a gun charge one time. Me and him was together. He caught a gun charge. That was another eye opener for me. You know, I'm going to need to have a conversation. first conversation I had with Jay. Jay wanted to have a conversation about him having a gun?

Yeah, with me. Like, as in, you can't be letting him run around like that? Yeah, because we was at, guess we got caught a gun at? Where? The Tribeca Film Festival. Oh, my God. Why, they have a metal detector or something? Yeah, man, it's the, I mean, fucking Robert De Niro is pulling up.

It's the sun, shit, all that. Everybody playing their films. Oh, my God. We went there, like, you know, the police pulled up on us, and, like, we tried to get up out of there, and they, they locked knee up, and then they gave me the money to go bail them out. And then the next day I bail him out. And then I get it, that's one two ways. Remember two ways? I get a two way and it's like, Jay wants to see both of you out of the baseline right now. Is your heart sink like, oh, no. Absolutely. My shit drops to the

bottom of my feet. But it wasn't a bad conversation. We get there and then Jay and Neff had some words, like, not no bad words. He just asked him like, what's up with him? And then he walked out the room. And then Jay asked me that I know my role. And he's like, you know your role? And I'm like, you know your role? And I'm like, you know your role? And I'm like, huh? And he's like, you don't know your role? And I'm like, what you mean? I thought he meant to take the ticket. And I'm the gun charge. Oh shit. But he didn't, no, he didn't.

He just was like, yo, he said, you're from up here, right? I'm like, yeah, he was like, you know, where they're from is a different place. Like, them carrying guns every day, like, that's how they live. He was like, you know, he said, you see Tata? I'm like, I'm the reason why Tata, mother never have to work again in her life. He's like, Chris and Neef could be the reason why your mother never have to work again in her life. If you know that they putting themselves in bad situations, like having guns or doing dumb

shit, you got to pull them aside and like be the rationality for them because if not, then you won't be in a position where your mother ain't got to work ever again in her life. Right. And at that time, I think I was 20. I just was like, I never thought of it like that. Yeah. You know what I mean? But yeah, I mean, along my journey, I went through a lot of bullshit.

Man, that's the crazy shit about being Jay-Z. It's just that he could pull you aside and like have that quick conversation with you and just hit you with some straight facts. Yeah. And he knows that you really are probably going to listen on a level that you're not going listen to your parents or whoever because they're not Jay-Z. That's crazy. That's like, because that's a real-ass conversation, but it's also the kind of conversation

that you might hesitate to have with a lot of people because you feel like motherfuckers just ain't going to listen. Yeah. You know what's crazy, though? Like what I learned. And it's like, I learned like the importance of like your voice. Like for me, I have a voice like even in my neighborhood. You know what I mean?

Like I'm respected in Harlem. I'm, and I say that to say this, like as a man. Ain't got nothing to do with no street shit. You ain't going to go to Harlem and they're going to tell you, yeah, Waino was blaming at him and he was doing this. And he was like, you know what I mean? I had fights. I had all types of bullshit, but that's not why I'm respected for. I'm respected as a man in Harlem.

Like from old people to little kids to in between. So it's like a lot of people in my neighborhood, they look at me like a shining example of a person that they knew that actually made it or did or what they think of making it. Because I don't think there's no real making it. Like, you know what I mean? But you made it in a way that's a little bit more attainable. and the guy who comes out and becomes a rapper because most people sort of know deep down inside the dangame a rapper.

Right, exactly. But you kind of have that dream of being like a media personality, A&R, like all these different things that people who are really paying attention to the industry are starting to realize like those are paths that actually makes sense to go down. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like for me, so I'm really careful about how I speak. You know what I mean? Because I know like the same way I talk.

Like when I watched Irv Gotti when I was a kid. I watched Dame. I watched Kevin Lives. Fucking tons of people. and I just used to always idolize how they spoke and what they was about. So it's like for me, I'm very cognizant about how I handle myself, how I articulate myself, because I don't want nobody getting the wrong impression. Like I'm not, I'm also not going to tell you that everything is sweet because it ain't sweet.

I don't go crack in my head tons of times, you know what I'm saying? And I didn't crack some niggas and they as too, but it's like that's not what my life is about. My life is about like pivoting and figuring shit out so that you don't have to be in a bad position. And I got respect for that. You know, so I take that shit with pride. So you start a management company and then you meet Dave East right away? Nah, not right away. You know what it was?

I was managing my producers, Buddha and Grans. You know what I mean? I met Buddha like through Amadeus and then like me and Buddha we was trying to sell beats and that's a tough game. So it was just like, yo, if we could just get one artist that we could get all our beats on and we get them signed and maybe we make some money. So it was like that. And then the way I met Dave East was I was at a, I was host along this way.

I'm hosting shows. I was hosting shows like at SOBs to get like a little $100 extra a day. Because, you know, you say that you're not going to get a regular job. You better figure out how to feed them fucking kids to pay them bills. So I'm doing that. And then like he was one of the artists on the showcase. And it was a few artists on it that I knew. But he just, the way he rapped, nobody rapped like him.

And then like, we just got cool over a year. And then one day I just hit him up. I was like, yo, I was telling people like, I want to really get this kid. And I was like, yo, I hit him up. like, yo, what you doing? Nothing? I came seeing him.

I was like, yo, what do you? Like, anybody managing you? He's like, nah. He's like, I just been doing this shit myself. I said, I'm going to make you rich. I said, I promise you, I'm going to make you rich. And I was like, um, watch what we're going to do. Like, as long as you follow, like, the game plan or what it is I want to do, we're going to be good.

And like, we made it into something. What did you start actually doing with them at that point? Because I've had a lot of different situations where I'm having a conversation with a young artist. And I feel like, damn, they could use a manager. but I never really had it in me to really actually bite it off because it seems like so much work and I'm so consumed with this shit that's kind of hard to imagine.

What did you start to do to develop his shit? Well, like, so the first thing I did, he was working on a tape called Black Rose. So, like, he was like, yo, I want to get a feature. So I got like, I say, you know Smoke Dizzy? He's like, I know of him. I'm like, all right. I told Dizzy.

I'm like, yo, I got this kid. You know what I mean? He dope. I brought Dizzy through his spot. They sat Smoke 100 Blunts. And he was like, yo, I like him. I'm going to do the verse. did that and then my producers

they did like the last track that ended up being his intro on Black Rose so I use my resources like along the way like along the way of me doing all this Rockefeller shit I met Meek Mill like when I was 16

when Meek was 16 I was like 20 21 so I met Meek Mill so I had a relationship I've had a relationship with Meek Mill since for like over shit before he caught his charge wow you know what I mean so I knew that Dave was a rapper

as rapper so I had to put them around other rappers. So I introduced them to me. You know what I mean? Built that synergy there. I had a rapport with Stiles P. Put them around Stiles P. Put them around Jadikis, put them around Lox. That value. And then around this time is when like Massa Pillar is reaching out and Naz and all that. So once the Naz cosine came, it was like, all right, let's get him. My ideology was like, let me just get him around like other people that could understand that he was dope because I thought he was super dope as a rapper. So I got him around other rappers that thought it was dope.

And then, like, we learned along the way. You know what I mean? I didn't know shit about management. I just, like, let me take a shot. So we learned along the way. And then, like, we did tons of great work. You know what I mean? We both got out the hood.

Were you really working with them in the studio a lot, too? Were you getting directly involved in the music? Nah, not too much. Well, I would give suggestions. Like, so I would, like, sometimes I would put my A&R hat on. I never told him to, like, change no words. Like, I never said, yo, don't say that, say this. But like it would be little shit like

It would be certain songs That I'd be like Yo we should put this person on that Or I get him beats Like I get him beats Like I built the relationship with him and Jailo Beats So I got him and Jailo beats They did a record

I'm like yo let's put this person on it And he would have his own ideas So we used to like work together Bounce ideas off each other And then like I would give him suggestions To like make certain type of songs So he had like There's two songs that's on Kyrie Chanel

That I hope like I didn't write these songs I just gave him the concept You know what I mean So it was um a Jeannet song that I was listening to every day, every day, every day, called Sending My Love. And I was like, yo, we should do this during over. So we did it over.

And it was like, I said, but, you should talk about people that's in jail. You know what I mean? Like sending your love to him. And he did that. And then we got 7th Street on that. And then we did another record where it was called Don't Shoot, where I told him, like, it was like, I think it was around like right after the mic. You know, black men is always getting fucking killed by police.

So it was like. One of those. Uh-huh. I mean, there's so many that's kind of hard to remember. It was one of them. I can't remember which one, but it was something. And I sat one day and I thought about how when I was a kid, like, I wanted to be a cop by watching TV, watching Police Academy, watching fucking chips. You know what I mean?

Like, I'm watching comedy thinking that cops is cool. That's actually really interesting. I can't remember a time that I thought that it was okay to like cops because I knew about rap from like eight years old. I always felt like that was the first rule of rap is that cops are bad. But see, I'm talking about like kindergarten first grade. Second grade. But I'm thinking about like, and then as I got like the first, the first time I seen a cop do some foul shit, I was around like eight or nine years old.

Really? Yeah. What was it? It was, um, my cousin, we was going to the store. He was taking me to the store. He was my having been like 13 or 14. And I was like eight. And they jumped out, pushed them up on the wall.

I was a kid, so they didn't do nothing to me. But then like, he put Coke in my cousin's pocket. And then he took it out. But I was standing right there. I watched him do it. And he looked at me and went like this. You know what I mean? And then when he took the coke out of his pocket, he's like, look what he got and started beating him up.

They didn't even lock him up. They just beat him up. Holy shit. You know what I mean? So it's like I seen that when I was a little kid. So that's what changed how I felt about police as a kid. If you see that at that young, over the age, it's like there's no going back. You're never going to be able to trust the police after that.

Exactly. So it's like, as I got older, so I told Dave, I'm like, yo, I said, you're going to do a song where, I said, I want you do a song where, like, you rap in but you're a little kid. And you're talking about how cops ain't that bad. And then as a teenager, they start fucking with you, you know what I mean, a bit and your voice changes. And then when you become a man, they're pulling you over and you just trying to get home and then you get shot at the end of the song. And I just told him the concept and he was like, oh, my God. And he took like a day.

I think he brought his father to the studio. And he sat and talked with his father for a long time. And he called me next day like, yo, I got the record and he did it. So like, that's the kind of stuff that I kind of helped out with Dave with. I never, like, you know, I never wrote no bars or said, yo, you should say this or change the hook like that. I just would give suggestions, like from an A&R type of point of view. Were you with him when he got signed? Yeah, I got him signed.

How did that go? I mean, like, yo, I got, like, yeah, I was a part of it. And was that, like, the biggest payday that you had gone up to that point in your life? That was the biggest payday for both of us. Right. I mean, the thing was, like, a lot of people don't know, but we was trying to work out a situation where it would have been like Rock Nation and Massapel and it was going to be Jayzie and Nas and Dave. Whoa. You know what I mean? And we almost made it happen, but like it just business. It didn't work out.

But yeah, man, I never forget, yo. Like, I, you know, we had the first conversation. And then we did, when it was time to do the deal, I sat in the room. Like, it was his birthday. Me and his lawyer sat in Def Jam from 9 p.m. on a Friday to 4 a.m. But I called him, like, he was at the club partying. And I called my man. I'm like, oh, bring him to the office right now. It was like 3 o'clock in the morning. his contract was done. And he signed that shit. And it was like the biggest moment we ever had.

And then... You were in the office that long negotiating different points on the contract? Yeah, me, me, Dave's lawyer, and Def Jam's lawyers. And we argued for all night. I mean, we all love each other. But, like, reading contracts is so crazy. Like, after I sat there all them hours, I was like, it's no way possible y'all motherfuckers can read books.

You know what I mean? Because, like, sentences, capital letters all mean some different shit. Right. But yeah, we did that. And then, like, that's what got us out. Like, that's what got us out of the hood. You know what I mean? Like, that was the biggest payday.

I remember, like, you know, when I got that check, I just was like, I woke up, looked in my bank account, seeing that bread. I was like, moving. Wow. So my girl, like, we're out of here. That's crazy. Yeah. So you actually went hard and, like, moved out of your area you were in?

Yeah. I was living in the projects at the time. When you moved Jersey or some shit? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That must have felt liberating as fuck, huh? I mean, it did.

Like, you know, it's crazy. I always give myself a new bar. Like, it was like, that's all I wanted to do is move out the hood. So I had to find a new motivation after that. It can be kind of depressing when you get that thing that you've had in your head. That's what I felt when I wanted to open a store for so long and I finally opened a store. And not only was it like, holy shit, there's way more work for me to do now. But then it was also like, now I can't just think of like, oh, I'm going to be happier once I have a store.

You know? You think you would just be happy because you just have the store. Nobody tells you about all the logistics. Because now you've got to figure out your next goal. Yeah, exactly. And that's super depressing. Yeah, man. So it was like, you know, we did that.

And then, you know, we, a couple of the next year, like we split. You know what I mean? Like, we split after that. Why was that though? Just stopped working out or synergy wasn't the same? Yeah, it just wasn't in the same. We wasn't thinking the same. Like, you know, the ways that we was thinking, he was thinking, you know, a certain way how he wanted to do things.

And I didn't want to do things how he wanted to do things. And he didn't want to do things the way I wanted to do things. So we just, we separate it. You know what I mean? We separated. And then I just went on to, like, keep doing my thing. And then I ended up at everyday struggle. Wow.

You know what I mean? And then signed to a few more artists. You know what I mean? I got another artist that signed to Epic. Daniel Munoz. He's like a pop star. I met that kid in Walmart. Oh, wow.

Yeah. And then, um. In Walmart? Yeah, I met him Walmart. Would you just say to him? Like, hey, what's up? Nah. I like the cut of your jib.

The fuck is a jib. The fuck is a jib. I don't know. the way somebody is like, like their style or attitude or something. Oh, that shit sounds crazy. That's a weird-ass white people from the 50s to. Where did that come from? But no, he just, he walked up to me and just, you know, asked me could he send me some music

and shit and I was like, all right, cool, you know, and then got cool with him over a year and and end up doing this deal, you know, through trying to go off and so epic. Has it been weird for you to go from somebody who, you know, even if the only thing that you could say for yourself was, I worked to Rockefeller for a while, I worked under these dudes, and then I got Davey signed. Like if that's your whole rap sheet, that's a pretty solid rap sheet in the music game. It's not a lot, a lot of people haven't done that much. But then you go and you do every struggle and now you're famous.

Like everybody knows who you are now. It's like, how does that work? Like to have, you already had like a rap sheet of like industry work that you had done and shit. But then all of a sudden now everybody actually knows you for talking. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. You know, because like I'm not used to, I'm not used to people stopping me and like wanting to take pictures with me and, you know, just wanting to talk to.

me. It's so funny because whenever a person like gets five seconds with me, they try to get like their version of everyday struggles. You know what I mean? They be like, yo, Waino, what you think about that? I'm like, dog, I'm just trying to, you know, I'm trying to cop a pair of sneakers, you know what I mean, trying to go to the movies. Like, it ain't that type of party. But it's kind of, oh, man. I mean, I appreciate it though. You know what I mean? Because I never, I ain't gonna front at him. I'm like, I didn't think I'd be shit, yo. Like, I didn't think I'd be anything. My mom always told me I'd be something. But deep down, I really believed it, but like to be something, but like to be something,

is a surreal thing. So, like, whenever people approach me, like, I give them my time. You know what I mean? Like, if you were respectful, you know, I give him my time and say what up to them and all that. It's ill, but I love it, man.

I love my life. I'm going to trade it for nothing else. Was it hard for you to build rapport with academics? It's very challenging to create that sort of chemistry on camera. How hard was it to build that? It was kind of... It was kind of funny.

It's ill. So, like, you know, when I get there, You know, we there was Star And you know Then the Star shit stops And then I'm on there And then That's in the middle

The whole Takashi shit And I got my reservations About like how I feel About a lot of that shit You know what I mean That he was doing And I wasn't jacking a lot of that shit You know what I mean

And I was I was telling act about that And then I also had a perception of him But I was like I was a fan of his work Because I watched I tuned into like all his blog shit Just to listen to him and stuff

Not, I just like hearing him talk about like the Warn Shire rack, all that shit. And then, like, working with him was kind of like, I didn't know who he was and he didn't know who I was. So we never would standoffish, but I was kind of like, I don't really fuck with this nigga. Like, when I first got there. But, like, act is a really cool dude. You know what I mean? Like, aside from where everybody may think about him and he do a lot of shit that tons of people

question. But what I have to deal with him for, opposed, everybody don't have to deal with him for what I did with him for. So, like, he's really a cool dude, and I fuck with him. You know what I mean? But I, uh, we had our moments. You know what I mean? Like, when we had, like, when I whole Takashi shit came down,

we had an episode that got kind of like, like, I kind of went hard on him. But the reason why I went hard on him was because he was doing shit, saying shit about my name when I was in the round. Like, I did the pull-up shit with Joe. And he, I remember he did a video. And he was like, yeah, he was like,

Cassanova was there. Wayne, no was there. And, you know, Takashi, to all them niggas suck his dick. And I'm like, first of all in New York, like, this whole, this suck my dick shit is some new shit. In New York, like, people from the South always laugh at us because they be like, man, people take that so serious. I remember when I was 14, I told somebody suck my dick, and a dude pulled me to decide. He said, don't ever say that unless you're going to kill somebody or you're ready to die. You know what I mean?

That's how serious that is. That's the ultimate level of respect in New York. I don't know what it might be in L.A. it might be whacking out somebody hood or some shit like that. You know what I mean? So when he said that, I'm like, damn, act like I'll be on the show with you. You're going to say. So when the Takaji shit came to a head, like I kind of went hard at him.

You know what I mean? But through that, we got past that. And like, we having fun on the show. Yeah, it is kind of weird when you think about academic position, just because he sort of like managed to build this giant platform off of presenting himself as the number one go-to stop for fuckery in the rap game. Absolutely. And a lot of people can't separate him from that platform.

Like they can't look at academics and not think about the fact that academics is the first one to post a fight if they get beat up or if somebody gets the shit smacked out of him. It gets a chain took or whatever. It's like a one-man world star or a world star used to kind of be. I always said that. He's like world star. And it's like it's weird because a lot of people really hate him for that. And we'll never be able to just consider him as like just a dude.

You know what he said to me one time? And I asked him one time, like, yo, why? I said something about, like, the posting the content and all. Like, he said, yo, the thing about it is, all I do is repost the shit that they post. Like, I'm not, he's like, I'm not making none of this. Like, I'm not putting them together. I always equated to, like, the dude who, if you in the lunchroom and, like, somebody say something about your moms, but you don't really hear it.

And he'd be like, yo, you ain't just here what this nigga said. He'd be like, yo, yo, you go on. Yo, three o'clock, you, y'all got a fight. Like, yo. He didn't say. I didn't say that shit. He said that. Yo, you gonna take that?

Like, he's that nigga. Like, he, and I, like, that's the person that, like, no, everybody is, like, cool with because they stir shit up, but you don't really bother him. You know what I'm saying? Like, because his position is really out of the space. Like, for me, like, I, like, even with everything that I be going on with, I be telling him, sir and shit, like, yo, now, I don't think you should do that. I don't think you say that, but end of the day, he's a man, and he got to stand on his words.

And it's funny, though, too, because academics, And that's a big part of what pissed people off about him is that he's always done shit that he couldn't do if he was just around. Like talking about all the Chicago shit, if he was just a dude that you could catch chilling at the barbershop, he wouldn't have been able to talk about that shit because somebody literally would have killed him.

Yeah, he'd be dead by now. He'd be smoking academics packs still to this day if that happened. Oh, man. No, we wouldn't. That's not funny. We're not going to joke about that. But, I mean, it's just that's the crazy part about it is that he has always been smart enough to keep himself

separate from all the bullshit. And it's kind of like, yo, if nobody catches him slipping, then it is what it is. Like, you might not like him, but y'all ain't done nothing to him, so it is what it is. I mean, the thing is, like, what people got to take an account too is that academics is a civilian. He's a fucking civilian. He's not a gangster. But there's a lot of people who wanted to smack the shit out, including your man Mick Mill and the Dream Chasers. They wanted to kill him at one point, right?

Absolutely. You involved in that? No, man. No, man. Meek, but I say this, man, they're not nobody to play with. Yeah, I know. Because I know, like, I didn't meet me on no music shit. I met him as a kid in the street that used to ride dirt bikes that rap.

Because he, like, one of his, like, close friends at the time was a dude that he was one of them young. They was young. They was 16, but they was giving it up in the streets. And that's how I knew them. You know what I mean? And him rapping was just, like, extra. You know what I mean? But, yeah, they definitely wanted to catch him and shit.

But at the end of the day, you do something to him, he sue you, then what? You know what I mean? Like, you don't want to have to pay a million dollars and then probably, I don't know if he's going to fucking go hard with the charges to the furthest extent of the law. You know what I mean? You don't want to catch no charge fucking with this dude. To Meek Mill? Probably, right?

Yeah, I mean, he ain't going. Like, Meek ain't even on that, man. Like, Meek ain't even, you know, meek is in a whole new place. I'm proud for my guy, man. That's my guy. Now, yeah. But he was mad a couple years ago. I mean, he was.

And I was always happy for him, though, because I know where he'd come from. I used to be in the studio with Meek when he had the ankle monitor on and be like, all right, y'all, it's about to be 8 o'clock. I got to fucking go. I can't finish this verse. You know what I mean? I didn't see him do that a few times. Him, O'Melly, all of them.

You know what I mean? So it's like to see where he's been able, like, shit. When he got sound at MMG was a fucking big thing for me. Right. You know what I mean? Just to see a dude that, like, I know where he come from and I know it's people to see him make something of itself. On that level, yeah.

Yeah, that's why a lot of people on the show, they be like, oh, Wayne knows a Meek, a Mick Mill, Dick, Like, yo dog, if you knew somebody who was, when I met Meek, he was in the street, he wasn't like, he wasn't, he didn't have no money. He was hustling in the streets. And he became something. You wouldn't celebrate that person. I'm not going to wait for him to die. I'm not waiting for nothing to happen to me for me to say I love him and for me to say he's one of the best out there.

That's my dog. Like, I'm always doing that. That's an unfortunate thing is that the fans want you to default to a position of not giving a fuck and not having any empathy and not being proud of a guy who made it. And that's weird because. We should be happy to see anybody make it out of this situation. Oh, no, man. People, you know what fans do? They want you, they hype you up to do something stupid to call you stupid.

Like, for real. They hype you up. You know what fans do? They'd be like, oh, man. Like, I remember when I had to load the whole Soldier Boy shit when he was on a show and everybody was like, oh, Soldier Boy, he didn't threaten me. Like, you know what I mean? He was upset.

And, like, one thing, I respect Soldier Boy. You know what I mean? I respect him. I think that he's very misunderstood. I think that a lot, like, he made a lot of money. a young age, I can't imagine having that, like being ahead of your household, making that amount of money, having to hold people down, people probably stealing from him. He's been through a lot of shit.

He lost, I think he lost his brother, all types of shit. He's frustrated. You know what I mean? He's frustrated. So when the shit happened, people was like, yo, you should have fought him. You should have did this. You pussy. You this.

You that. I'm like, okay. Do you got to be a real knucklehead to have the opinion that you should fight somebody on camera at complex while you're working? Look, this is the thing, right? So look, all them saying. name people, let's say I jump up, me and soldier boy get into a scuffle. It goes viral. Everything goes crazy.

Wayne, a dumb motherfucker. On Monday, when I come in and they say, you know, everybody from complex send me down, like, yo, Waino, you know, this is dope, but this is not the type of, you know, stuff we need here, man. Like, you know, we're going to have to let you go. And I lose out on my check that I'm getting. You know what they're going to call me? Stupid. Stupid fuck. So they're going to be like, they're telling me I should have did something stupid to get a stupid result. just to call me stupid.

I'm not, you crazy, man. I dodge prison, like, for real. Like, my friends, I got some of the, like, even out here, I fuck with a lot of people that's in there all types of shit. So it's like, I, man, I'm one of the ones that dodged the lot of the bullshit. I'm not going to let nobody trick me out of my freedom. Right, yeah, that's crazy. Has there been any, was that the time that you felt the most disrespected on the show?

Is there been any other guests that kind of said some shit that didn't survive with you? No, I didn't even feel disrespected because I didn't feel threatened. Yeah. Like, all he did, like, he was talking, he was talk, I, what I got mad at is when he said, y'all are stupid. Now, look, he'd been calling, he didn't, he would calling academics, fuck niggas, stupid, everything for an hour. Academics and men.

If he's comfortable with that, that's fine. He wasn't, like, it's one thing to watch it on camera, but on set, it's a different thing. He wasn't giving me that energy when he said, y'all stupid niggas, and we got a woman sitting here. Like, let's not forget that there's a woman. And a black woman and I don't give a fuck if I'm on the end of the earth. If I see a black woman in a tough position, any woman, but a black woman specifically in a tough position, I'm going to defend that.

I mean, that seemed pretty crazy when he was saying that. It was just like, wow, you really bugged out, huh, Soldier? No, but he was just mad, but he was more mad at academic. He didn't even know me. Right. On the show, he said, I'm sorry, brother. What's your name? I'm not mad at that.

I'm the nigger from behind the scenes that ain't even supposed to be here. Right, yeah. So when it happened, I just was like, yo, come on, brother. as men, clear that up because we're not, you know, and that was the first time where I seen how media will flip things because everybody showed that when he got up and he was trying to walk out with his stuff and nobody showed when he was the human part of him. They wanted to show the bullshit. Nobody showed you boy.

And I'm not saying this to down him. He said, yo, you know, brother, I apologize for calling y'all stupid. Nobody showed that. And I didn't want nobody to show that to say, look, y'all, he's not really, no, he noticed his faults right then and there and media ran with just the bullshit. I'm like, oh, okay, now I see what I'm in. That's the first time I was like, oh, I get it. That's a weird thing to see for the first time. And especially like academics had to go through those growing pains. Like, remember when the fucking Migo's shit happened with him and buddy? And then complex,

and that was probably like a learning moment for complex as well because complex fully turned him into a meme and just highlighted the fuck out of it, put out their own highlight clips. No, the best clip is the slow motion one. Yeah. Oh my God. Academics had to be like, yo, like, I'm working for you. You can't just make me look like a fucking goofy just to go viral on Instagram. Yeah, man. I mean, like, I'd be like this, man, when it comes to this, this music shit, because all these guys think they tough, just take something, man.

Take jujitsu or some shit. Like, do shit in your spare time so that if you do getting something, you get it over with fast. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not in it for that. Like, I'm not in it to get into no altercations and none of that shit. You know what I mean? But it just was, like, complex.

I fuck with complex. You know what I mean? but my perspective of the brand was different at that moment when that shit went down. Right. You know what I mean? Because it's like, but I guess they had to look at it like, shit, let's make the best of it. Right. I don't think academics had a problem.

Would people look at him as that type of person as a meme all day, every day? Okay, is that weird for you? Because it seems like you're more intent on being taken as a straight up person and respected for your work and stuff. Academics, as much as he wants to be respected for his work and everything like that, is a certain extent to which he's willing to make himself the butt of the joke. Yeah, I ain't with that. People kind of like that about it.

I'm not with that. I'm not with that because I just, I represent a certain type of place. Like, I represent certain type of people and I'm not with that. The thing is, is that I'm just respectful. You know what I mean? Like I didn't, I didn't have conversations with all types of artists that did not know me, that met me and was like, yo, I respect your perspective on the show. This is down the third.

I'm a man of integrity. Like, end of the day, I don't represent myself. I represent a woman when I walk outside. I represent my children when I walk outside. I represent my mother. and my father, I'm not just out here for me. I don't live for me. You know what I mean?

A lot of people depend on me. So the thing is, like, when I deal with people, I'm going to deal with you with the, I'm not a journalist. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I just deal with people as human beings. Like, I don't like, if it's something that's barring and I guess that's good journalism when you, when it's something that's fucking with a person and you get them to talk about the worst part of it.

But I don't know that. If I don't have that type of rapport with you, I'm not going to mention the bullshit that you're going through in your life. Because I don't like we're artists. I'm not going to ask no artist about what woman they fucking. Or what woman? If she's a woman, what man is she fucking? I'm not concerned with that.

I'm concerned with music, how you make it, what she'll come up, how can, you know, what can others learn? You know what I mean? What you're doing to not to put other people on, but what you're doing to keep yourself fresh in the game? That's what I'm on. There's some perverse incentives in the game, just in the sense that if you have somebody on the show and you ask them the biggest dickhead question and you get them to walk out or something, that that could be the moment that everybody going on. You know, if you look at a lot of Charlemagne's biggest moments, and this is after like all these years are doing just high quality interviews, a lot of his biggest moments that went viral and that everybody knows them with are just the one time that he sort of kind of crossed

the line. Yeah. But see, and that's the thing though. I can't cross the line because I never wanted to be here to establish a line to begin with. So it's like for me, I'm trying to create more new content and shit. Like 2020, I'm trying to roll out new things and do new things. But I want it based on like me and the type of people.

think like me. And I ain't not because I watch everything. Like, I watch, you know, I watched when Bunk was here and you know what I mean and all of that shit. I watch all types of stuff that goes viral and crazy shit. Remember, I hit you about TJ X fucking, that's one of the best interviews. I knew you were a real one when you hit me up about that. Doug, man, that shit was amazing. I was like, this motherfucker talking, talking like he's never heard of the FBI before. Like, he's talking crazy, but it was it made for great content. So I watch it. But you know what it is too, Adam? Like, a lot of people, and not you specifically

but I say like certain people that look for certain rises out of people that's their money maker I'm from Harlem man I'm gonna get money regardless I'm gonna get money whether it's some music shit whether it's some whatever

if I gotta get into sports I figure that shit out if I gotta get into like selling juices if I gotta sell water if I got to get into any game I will I always say if you bring me to you know I say you can't

you can't bring them horse to water but you can't make a drink bring me to the fucking water I'm gonna make a water park I ain't get no cut I'm fucking making the slide from the top of the sky down to that motherfucker. I'm going to show you how to get it.

So that's what I'm on. For sure. When you were right there front and center, when this whole fucking insane drama happened between the Deska and Star, and clearly you're pretty tight with her. What was your perspective on that? Because I was from an outsider perspective, I was so fascinated by it because here you have complex.

And, you know, they have this woman working here, and it's a very male-charged environment. Right. But they're, you know, tested on more talent and everything. And the last position they want to be in is hiring somebody who has a history of sexually harassing the one woman on camera. So you're talking about when he said the shit about.

What do you say about sniffing her chair or something? I can't remember what you said. Something funny. Something totally filed. I ain't going to lie. When I was a kid, bro, I used to wake up early to hear start in the morning. Oh, okay. I used to love, I'm talking about he, even after working with him,

I tremendously respect that man. This is how me and this is how I ended up. Well, I want to say this how I ended up on a show. What happened was Nadezka, they had the interview when he was apologizing for whatever it was he had said to Nadeca. Okay. So she said some shit to him and I texted like, yeah, Nadeca talk your shit. And then she hit me a week later. It was like, yo, you should come through.

That's what made her think of you as a potential co-host. I don't know. Damn, that's cool. I don't know. But, you know, me and her got a good report, but it was because of that. Like, I was watching and I was like, talk your shit, which I didn't think that Stahl was going to be put off the show. But yeah, Star does have a history. But the thing is, that's the type of content he makes.

So I don't know if the people, I don't know who hired him on there, but I don't, I know that like, you have to know who you're dealing with. Listen, Star, man, I used to fucking listen to Star say shit to people like, man, fuck you in your block. Like the people, like the people, like, people used to call up. And they used to be like, Star, man, we're trying to get out here. We're trying to East Street. Start used to be like, man, go get a pistol and feed your family.

You know what I mean? And I used to fucking, he used to be like, man, I keep 10 rounds for 10 clubs. I was like I used to be a fan of stars as a kid growing up. So it's like, I just was looking at it from a fan perspective. You know what I mean? But yeah, that was a moment there. I wasn't there at the time. It was crazy because, you know, think about it from her perspective is that if she had said,

no, I don't want to work with them. You got to get rid of them that they almost definitely would have done it. But then at the same time, it's like, this is hip hop. She doesn't want to be the one who's kind of getting somebody fired for something that was like kind of an on-air joke and shit. So she did, like, do you agree with her decision to say, not? fuck it, he can still come on the show and for her to sort of be above it. I wasn't even privy to the information of like him being still on the show.

They just was like on some shit like, yo, we really liked you on here so we want to have you as a fourth guest. You know what I mean? Like that's how it started. And then like when it went and like when it was taking the break, it was like, you know, this may or may not happen that I like I was saying before. But like I didn't, I was even thinking like that. I was just like, y'all going to pay me to talk shit.

Y'all don't have to pay me to shut up. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was good. Like, I'm like, like, complex treats me well. I say that. Yeah. I have a ballpark idea. And it's definitely like coming from doing anything else outside the sort of industry, it definitely probably felt like a fucking upgrade. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, it also opened me up to a new audience of people. You know what I mean? Plus, you know, I just took this position, you know, at asylum, the NR and shit. So it's like, it's a lot of kids that they might see me on the show and be like, oh, that's the guy. I might be the, if you're watching me on the morning, I might be fucking hitting your email. later to potentially sign you. You know what I mean? So it's opened me up to like new avenues and new ideas.

And you know another thing was, it's like this game is built off of comebacks, man. It's built off of like stories and when me and East had our split, it was like, what's when you're going to do next? You know what I mean? And it's like that came. You know what I mean? And when that came, one thing I say about being in this music industry, I got a lot of people that like root for me.

Like I know that genuinely people that root for me. Now, like, is everybody my best friend, no. But I got a lot of people that do want to see me do good. It's probably people that want to see me do bad. I don't know them and I don't give a fuck about them. But for the people that do want to see me do good, I'm on it. You know what I mean? So it made sense for me to do it, take that position.

So go and take that. So what is the actual day? Are you just expected to bring X amount of artists in an average week, hey, check these out or are you more of like your finding specific artists that you're really excited about and trying to actually make shit happen? Well, you know, I got a team up there. So, you know what I mean? Like, my man Nico, you know what I mean?

He's another ANR that works with me. He handles research and shit. You know what I mean? So, like, that's how I found out about T.J.X.6. You know what I mean? Like, he had told us about T.J.X.6. It was super early. I think T.J. might have had, like, 5,000 followers on a gram.

So I was watching his shit for, like, a month. You know what I mean? I was watching this shit for, like, a month. I was listening to songs. And I just thought it was, like, I don't want to disrespect him. I didn't take him, like, as no supreme lyricist or no shit like that. I just thought that like he had a different take with rap and it was, he had a wave. I mean, I was like, oh, that's dope.

You know what I mean? Like, like, that's dope. So, excuse me, like, my typical day is I come into the office, it might be everybody got an artist now. Like, everybody has artists. People send me shit all day every day. But so that's your schedule? You go do everyday struggle and then you go straight there and to the office?

Yeah, so I do, I do everyday struggle at, shit. We start at 7 a.m. I'm done by like 9.30, 9 o'clock most days. and it's on 43rd Street, asylum on 50th Street. So I just walk up the block. I mean, walk up the block, go into office, go to the gym, come back in the office, get my shit right, start going over emails and stuff from the artists that I have already signed,

and then just see what's out there. And I mean, and I fly places, like I flew to Chicago to meet with some kids. I'm trying to work, they're trying to sign. I mean, we did a few things, you know what I mean? That's interesting because when you get that job, it's like you're going to be judged on the success of the shit that you actually sign and that you work. But at the same time, it's like, you probably are going to be able to escape by for however

long without necessarily putting in the full work. It's like, I feel like when people get positions at labels, it's so much on you. Like, if you want to be the fucking president of that company in 10 years, work your ass off and sign all the important acts for that company. And you might really be able to get there. But if you just kind of do the bare minimum, then you're going to kind of slowly probably work your way out of it. Let me tell you this.

So, like, even with that, like, I don't. I don't feel no pressure, man. You know what I told? Somebody asked me, do I feel pressure? I said, you know what pressure is? Pressure is selling drugs to pay your bills. Pressure is fucking trying to figure out how to get out the projects. You know what I mean?

Pressure is having beef with a motherfucker that's like that and you can't go to sleep until you figure out what's going to happen the next day. That's pressure. This shit ain't no pressure for me. You know what I mean? Like this shit is actually fun. So for me, like, this is all a dream. But like, I'm trying to make the best of it.

And what I mean by that is like, When I'm signing artists, I'm trying to develop artists. Like, I'm not into the whole fucking numbers game. Oh, his numbers is this. He's streaming that. Give him whatever he wants. I'm not into that shit. Because I might not fucking like you.

You know what I mean? And you might be a fucking dingback. Like, you know what I mean? Like, real shit. Like, I'm going to sign somebody and give him a life-changing opportunity because they got a bunch of numbers, but they're a fucking bad person. They're a dickhead. They come in the room.

Don't look people in the eye. Don't shake everybody in. Fuck all that. It's going to be more artists out there. So I do my shit with integrity. Like I mean, don't get me wrong. It's a lot of dope artists, you know what I mean, out there and shit, but like I'm not just trying to grab anything.

I'm trying, like my time at asylum, I want to be defined by sound. And each artist that I sign has their own sound. I haven't signed two artists that sound alike. So it's like, I want my time to be there like, yo, you know he had this kid and that kid made this or he had that kid and that kid made that. You know what I mean? And we run the numbers up and we do great. Perfect.

But I just wanted my shit there because it's not forever. I want my time to be defined by me giving opportunities to the people that deserve them and putting them in a position to be in the shit for 10 years. Yeah. I mean, Dave East is an interesting one because you had to have been looking at him like, this is a dude who's talented on the mic, he makes good music and he's got the look. He looks good on camera. So that's kind of an easy sell.

A lot of times when I'm looking at an artist, it kind of feels like they got one. Like, you know, there's a whole bunch of different characteristics. I'll have a few of them, but not the other ones. You always hear artists who got a really amazing voice and shit, but then they look terrible on camera. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Like with East, it was like he could wrap his ass off, but like, and he's a good...

Likeable, a good personality, you know? And he, like... And all the bitches like them, you know what I mean? And it was like... But, like, the first challenges we had was me getting him and take his hat off. Really? He took his hoodie off. He was to come everywhere with his hat like this.

He was two streets. And a hoodie like this. I used to be like, yo, take your fucking hat off, dog. Like, I used to be like, yo, take your hat off. Like, I'm like, yo, like, women want to look at your face. Like, like, people, and he's tall as shit. You walk in the room, he's the center of attention because he's tall. So like, we used to argue about that because he didn't used to want to take his hat off.

I used to like, you take your hat off. That's hilarious. But I looked at it, like, the thing with him was like, because I looked at it, I looked at artists like businesses. So, like, remember what Kanye said that shit about how Travis, like, Travis, like, Scott should have like three business owners managing him instead of just a manager or some shit like that, right? Which I'm not taking none from his manager because manager is a dope dude.

But like I look at artists as a building and you have different floors to him. Like you got the artist, the rapper floor, right? You have the fucking, the philanthropy floor if they want to get into that shit. You got the look, you know what I mean, the branding side. Like I look at all of that shit when I try to sound artists. So it's like I'm super picky with shit, you know what I mean? I also, I understand that me signing the artist is not always about me. You know what I mean?

Like I pay attention to the kids. Like every time I get an artist, I play that shit for my kids. I'd be like, I don't really fuck with it. Like they'll say fuck with it, but they're like, I don't really. But does that, is that enough for you to be turned off to it when the kids don't fuck with it? Because a lot of times you might be looking at something as something that they're going to have to warm up to it.

Yeah. If my mind is made up, then my mind is made up. But I look at what they say. You know what I mean? I look at like certain things that they into, certain things they say. because I was the same kid. When I was 15, you could not tell me nothing about the locks. That was, they fucking saved my life.

Like, their music was my soundtrack to my every day. So when a dude is telling me about, and don't get me wrong, I was young enough to see Big Daddy Kane, but when you're telling me that Jadikis is not better than him or even Raq Kemp, like me personally, Jada Kis and Stiles P and Sheik, their music meant more to me than Rock Kemp's music. So the same way how a kid would be like,

a kid to say, you ask a kid that's a fucking Teca fan or you ask Teca like, yo, how do you feel about Jay Z's music? He'd be like, Jay Z, fuck you're talking about. He's 17. You expect him to know what Jay Z's first album sound. And not saying that he shouldn't do his homework.

That's one thing I'm not going to say. Like, it's cool for artists to do homework. But what would mean something to him is Chief Keith, Lou Wayne, them niggies, like. And if Little Tekekeh told me that he had gone back and listened to Reasonable Doubt and Illmatic and shit and that he respected it and appreciated it, I would think that that was so fucking dope.

Yeah. But I'm not expecting that. I'm not expecting that. There's 50 fucking years a rap history to go through right here, you know? I'm not expecting that. Like, all right, so I started listening to Public Enemy when I was like 21 for real. Because all I knew was the singles, I knew like, fight the power and 911 is a joke, like, certain shit that just was the video. I wasn't listening.

And I was a little kid when that shit came out, but I wasn't listening to Public Enemy albums. I couldn't understand the words that they was articulating or the subject. matter they were talking about, even NWA. I didn't like, I didn't listen to that shit. When I got like 20 years old, I went, being around Beanie Siegel, he told me like, yo, go get America's Most Wanted by Ice Cube, go listen to death certificate, listen to fucking fear of a black planet, listening to Strata Compton. Like, he telling me, go listen to that shit.

So I'm tuning in at 19, 20 years old and like, oh shit, they're saying stuff. But that's, but I wasn't like, you, nobody could have told me. If you had asked me a question, like, you're going to ask me a question, like, you're is Chuck D. one of the best, right? I've been like, he's not better than Mephet Man. I just like, you know what I just said? Because Woutte and Clamman and everything to me. So I wouldn't have been like, I would have said some shit that if I'm a rapper, it's going

to make headlines. He doesn't think this. He's not born in that era. Everybody's not going to feel the same way. Right. Yeah, definitely. I want to ask this. The two very different sides of the business.

When you're a manager, you sign an artist or you start working with the artists and then you're with them so much. You're constantly around. And then when you're with a label, the whole goal is to sign a bunch of artists and you don't really spend that much time with anyone in particular. Is this a strange thing for you to get used to the idea of like investing in somebody's career and then being sort of hands off? No. So I mean, the way I run my shit now is just like when I was with Dave, I was with him every day. Like well, not every day, but like when we go on the roll, we together every day.

When we got to do shit, we together every day. We didn't hang in between time too much, but like we was together all the time. Now like now I didn't know that there was a difference. between a day-to-day and a tour manager and a business manager and a this manager. I didn't know all the differences. So what I do now is like I have people that work for my company. Because academics gave me this gym.

I ain't gonna lie. He was like, yo, my company name is Triangle Offense. He said, yo, you gotta get people to want triangle offenses management, not Wayno's management. Because when people say they want you to manage them, they're not thinking about the company and what the company could do. They just thinking about you and you being with them. And I was like, damn, I didn't,

and this is when I first got into charge. I didn't understand that. So what I do now is like my artists have day to days. I handle their business. So I handle their business. I talk to them. You know what I mean? We stay in contact.

But I'm not with them on the day to day. So it's like it's not, I've been, I've gotten used to that now. Like I can't, artists are fucking crazy. You can't be a random old day. I mean, just the responsibility to run around with the artists all the time. Do you feel like you're officially too old to like be? Fuck no. No.

36 years old, man. I'm too old. I feel too old to be, to find a rapper and to want to be in the studio with him all night and to want to want to be. Oh, yeah, no, no. be running around at different shows and clubs. No, I'm way too old for that. I don't think, so it's two, it's two ways. Like, I don't think I'm too old for it. I just feel like I paid my dues in that round. Right. Like, I've, I've done, I've slept in the studio for two days, wash my ass, I've watched my ass two days out the whole week before,

in the sink, all types of shit. So I'm, I've passed that part. Like, as you, as you grow as a, as a businessman, you want, you got to elevate. You know what I mean? Like, you're not, you're not, you're not handling things the same way used to. So, like, I'm too old for the bullshit. Now, I'd be too old for the, I sign an artist and you want fucking gang bang and do all this stupid shit and I need to make phone calls to get you out of trouble. I ain't with none of that shit. But that's kind of what it is to be a label, right?

Like, I had a long conversation with Chief Keefe's manager a few times. And I'm just realizing, like, holy shit, you got the patience of a fucking saint. Like, I would have been out there. And, like, I would have been out in two weeks. But that depends on who you want to deal with. Like, me, I just don't deal with the bullshit. Like, you know what I mean? Like, for me, I'm not wit.

I don't give a fuck about that street shit. You know what I mean? I don't care about that shit because that shit don't get you nothing good to come out the streets. So I don't care about, I don't give a fuck about chilling on. Oh, this is such and such block. Let's go chill over there. Like, I don't give a fuck about that.

If I'm in the hood somewhere, it's because I'm going to see somebody I got love for. You know what I mean? I ain't with that standing on the corner. So when it comes to artists, I don't do all of that. So artists that if you, my thing is this, you want to be a tough guy, join the fucking UFC. Because you ain't tough than none of them. Nope.

You know what I'm saying? Or you want to be an artist and a businessman. Stay over here and do this. So you can't blur the lines. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm not with that blurring line shit. You know, like people be wanting to, they don't know who the fuck they want to be. And you know what?

A big thing about just back to the conversation we had initially, not just that I was scared when I moved there. I didn't know who I was. I defined myself. I know who I am. I'm comfortable wherever I'm at. But you understand why kids join gangs and shit is because the world is scary and to have that idea of, to have a bunch of people who have your back is one thing,

to have one person to have your back is one thing, to have an idea of this group, thousands of people across the country theoretically, or at the very least, you know, dozens of people in your neighborhood. Yeah, that's irresistible to a young kid. I mean, it is, but it's all bullshit. See, that's the thing. Everybody looks at the, I'm not going to lie. If you viewing this shit from not knowing anything, that shit looks cool, right?

It looks cool. You get to wear this color. It's the coolest shit in the world, the kids, you know. It looks cool. You get to wear this color. You get to do these special handshakes. You got certain cordial words until you got to put some work in. That's where you're going to see where your heart is at.

You got to go shoot to somebody you don't know for a reason you don't really understand. You might got to shoot. You got to put that work in. It ain't, you put working, it ain't easy to go to sleep after that. That's the part that don't nobody tell you about. When you got to heart somebody and when you hurt somebody, not just getting away with it, But mentally, when you go to sleep and you think about what the fuck you had to do to somebody, that shit is not easy to get away with it.

And what happens with that? Medicating yourself certain ways. And then you medicate yourself so much that you don't give a fuck. And then you start doing all types of shit. And then it's a fucking rabble hole that you go down that you can't get out of that leads to what? That's for jail. So why it may look attractive is not. And I understand wanting to be a part of something.

I mean, like, just specifically I speak for black people, we tribal. We want to feel like we parts of something. That's why we got fraternities. That's why we got certain types of groups. That's why we got little cliques. It ain't just gangs. We got all types of shit. The army is all.

Everybody want to feel like they're part of something to some sort of extent. Whether it's religion or politics or whatever, I'm a Democrat. I'm a this. I'm a that. I'm a hot boy. You're a hot girl. Everybody want to feel like they part of some shit. So I get that.

But my thing is don't do nothing that's going to be detrimental. Like, what is it worth? Is it worth your motherfucking crime? I'm not, like, you don't want to be the person that motherfuckers got to get a go for me to put your ass. your ass in the dirt. That shit is crazy. You, you, motherfuckers be out here beefing in the streets and ain't even got life insurance. So you out here beefing, you want problems and you get killed, you get murdered. Your mother can't even do shit. She got to go around. You motherfuckers be dying. You know what's crazy? I noticed this by working in a corporate America. When I worked in

corporate America and people that I work with white people, they lost a family member. The motherfuckers die on Wednesday, they asses in the ground by Saturday. That quick. Black people die. These motherfuckers is chilling for three weeks. For real. Nah, this shit is real. These motherfuckers are chilling for three weeks. He died on Monday. Oh, we got to bury him next month.

Why? Because they can't afford the fucking bury him. How gangster is that? That shit ain't gangster. That's harsh. That shit ain't cool. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying with these kids.

But I'd be telling kids, I'd be like, listen. Because you know you go to high school and you had that guy to come in and say, hey, y'all, you know, I grew up in this bad neighborhood. And I just stayed in the house. I didn't get in anything. I went to college and I'm all right. I'm a doctor now. First of all, none of that shit seems fun.

None of it seems cool. Kids want to hear stories about experience. They want to see somebody. I'm a person that can say, yeah, I was out here. I was outside. Yeah, I did some shit and I had some shit done to me. And guess what? I ended up trying to do the right thing because it ain't fun doing the wrong thing.

So that's what I'd be pushing on these kids. Yeah, because you're in an interesting position where you've been through a lot in relatively recent memory. and you know probably meet a shitload of young people and stuff in terms of artists and everything. Like how do you talk to them about the risk that they should be taken? I'd be keeping it hunting with them, yo. Like I be like all these kids want a million dollars for a deal. I want a million dollars. I want a million dollars for what?

Would you want a million dollars? Like okay. Do you know, so I'll be looking at it like, I'll be telling people like this, even when it come to these deals. When somebody, when you do a deal, it's not a deal for you. It's a deal for both parties. Right. So you want the money.

You know what? I'll give you the money. But I want to know how I'm getting my money back. And somebody was like, huh? I said, listen, if your fucking cousin asked you for $200, right? And they're down on their luck. No matter how tough it is, if you ain't really got it, you're going to say, I'm going to give it to you. But how am I going to get it back?

You think labels is thinking they ain't different. So you want this money for this investment. This is an investment. When you go to the bank and you ask for, you go to the bank for a loan, what do they ask you for? For business. Credit. Credit, but what else? A business plan.

Right. They say, what's your business plan? What's the cash flow? What's the portfolio? Like, how are we quantifying this? Where's the, you could do that with every, like, that's how you get in business and anything else, music, everybody just want to walk in and get a check. And then when you get the check and you get fucked over because here's, this is what happens.

We give you this million dollars or I'm not going to say we. Because while I'm saying this, I'm not pro-label. I mean, I'm pro-success. I'm not pro-label. Success comes out, you gotta get it. So, they give you this bread, they put out some music, they don't hit how the last shit hit. Cool, we took that shot.

Put out some more music. That don't hit how the last shit hit. But now, you didn't ran through that whole million dollars we gave you. So you start panicking. Yo, I get some, like, yo, I need another advance. I need, no, you can't get another advance. The fuck, we just gave you a million dollars. What you do?

Oh man, all right, well, you could take the rights to this and then let me get that. Now you're fucking yourself. And all you're going to do is keep fucking yourself over and over and over. So I'd just be telling kids, it's not my business to teach you business. It's nobody's business to teach you business, but learn the business. If you're going to get into music, learn the fucking business. Because these kids, they get these deals. Yeah, you get $4 million up front.

And I ain't going to front. 11 times out of 10, I might take it. But at the same time, you might be giving up. or your publishing rights on the back end, off the rip. You might be giving up all your royalty rights or be getting crazy royalty rates. Ten years down the line, your mom gets sick of some shit. You ain't got the money you got.

A fucking song is on the M&M's commercial, and it's your song, and you didn't get a check. You want to know why? Because you took that fucking money early on. Yeah, but $4 million probably, that's a lot more than you're probably going to make the vast majority of the time from your actual career. I mean, it depends.

When you go for the massive up front and dance, you're really kind of betting against yourself. You are. You're betting that you're going to have a short burst of a career and then nothing's going to happen afterwards. Because in that case, you're killing it. But they don't know that. They think, oh, I'm about to kill like $4 million.

I'm about to, I'm going to do this. They don't know nothing about no taxes, none of that shit. I know multiple different artists that are basically like just pretty unpopular, like not relevant, like underground type artists that signed for over a million dollars within the last couple of years, the fans have no fucking clue. Yeah. And if I told them that this random guy who has a video. on elevator got a fucking million dollars from a label and then nothing popped up after they'd be like

what? I seen a kid do get a million dollar deal and they even put a record out. Yeah. They didn't put a record out, they didn't put a record out, they didn't put a project, got a nothing. They got a million dollars a day. They tried to give them a label day. I'm like, label deal. All they, it's like, it's like this, right?

It's like shit, right? It's like this. I'd be looking at the, like, how they court these artists, the same way how a, a chick that you never met would try to set you up, right? Like, okay, you popping in this time of third. You just met her on Monday. On Wednesday, she in love with you. She love you.

You're the best part. You're the smartest. You're the funniest you ever met. You don't find nothing wrong with that. Like, like, you just met me. I ain't sold a fucking record. Yeah, I got some potential. I'm doing okay.

I'm all right. But I could get a label deal. I could get a big check. I could get all this money invested in me. Why is that? So you think that they're giving you this money without knowing what they're going to make? They already did the projections.

the fight is fixed. After you, they get what you get out of you, what you got next? Because if you ain't got nothing next, okay, peace. These kids don't even understand the amount of money that a label could fucking spend

and it don't affect their bottom line. And they think that they're special because they got this money. Let me tell you, if you took a million dollars for a deal, you ain't special because a million and I don't even have a million dollars, but a million dollars is not a lot of money entertainment.

That's nothing. To all these people that you're signing to, they got many, many millions of dollars. Fortune 500 companies. I didn't sit with dudes that work in television that raised 20 million for some shit that never happened. For real. I worked in television. These dudes are like, yeah, we raised $20 million for this new channel.

This shit never happened. And they raised the bread. And they're like, yeah, I had him give me bread and him and him and him. And you sitting here trying to figure out how you're going to stop eating Burger King one day. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, shit. Don't just, just, and I know it's tough.

But if you're going to get into the music business, try to learn. Try to learn however you can. When you look at your potential career path, it's like, do you find yourself veering more towards being an on-air personality or being a behind-the-scenes label guy? Because it's like you could be Charlemagne or you could be the guy at the label. Let me tell you this. Both might be able to make some pretty good money. And I'm doing everything. You're doing everything.

There you go. I'm doing everything, bro. It's good. I'm doing everything because, like, you know, I ain't upfront. This media space is fire. You know what I mean? This shit is dope. It's lucrative.

There's money in it, especially in creating content. If you got shit that's distinctive and your own. thing, that's ill. Best case scenario, you play both off each other. Because like you were saying, like you becoming more famous through everyday struggle, boom, that could help you like crazy in terms of having kids take you serious when you unsigned them and shit. Absolutely.

And I'm doing both because it's like, yo, I mean, I've worked, let's me say, I've done so many jobs, you know, I didn't have so many jobs. I didn't apply for so many jobs that I didn't get that I put time in. I applied for this jobs that I took two years trying to get that I never got. And for me to be doing this right now, I'm not. I'm only 36, yo. Fucking Mark Cuban became a billionaire at 43 or some shit like that. He's 50-something.

And I'm not saying, like, one, another thing, too, is like the whole billionaire shit. In order to be a billionaire, you got to be doing some real distinctive shit. But I'm learning. You know what I mean? I'm learning. I feel like my people, like black people, we're the only ones that put these unfit age expectations on ourselves. Like, if I'm, by the time I'm 30, if I ain't married, got a house, a dog, and a kid, my life ain't shit.

Chief Keith put out of album called Finally Rich at 18. Finally Rich. I got fucking sneakers older than Chief Keith. Was it 18? He might have been like 16 or 17. Either way. Yeah, this is what I'm saying. Finally.

Finally rich. Yeah, like that thing about that. Finally rich. What? Yeah, I finally did it. But that's what I'm saying. I just, I feel like, but you know what that's due to the conditions that we live in it? Because we fucking dying every day because we're not appreciating ourselves.

You know what I mean? I said, I was talking to one of my homies earlier. I say, yo, listen. It's kind of fucked up, but you got angry-ass, racist police killing black people. You got mad shooters walking in places killing black people. And then we got black people killing black people. Like, it's exhausting being me sometimes. But the thing about it is, it's like, I'm not giving up, man.

And I know that like, that shit that Pock said about sparking minds, like, I really believe that because it's so many things that I've seen. It's like how it was like with Nipsey, right? Nipsey gone. Nipsey, Ben talked, like, you could go through every Nipsey Hustle interview. He never said nothing crazy. He never was talking crazy as far as like, even when it came to him talking about being down with the 60s, he never was like, yeah, we bangin'it.

Like he never talked, said nothing out of pocket. He always articulated itself to a certain degree, but it took him to pass for people to appreciate that. You know what I'm saying? He always had that type of narrative, that type of sentiment, that type of ideology, them type of smarts, but it took this man to lose his life. So for me, I'm just trying to wake as many people as it up as I can and tell him like, you know, unfortunately what happened to my man Nip happened, but like it's so many of y'all

and that's what he was trying to do, show y'all that y'all got something in y'all even when you don't feel like you do. Like that's what got me to where I'm at the day. Because I felt like, even when I didn't, even when the world felt, I was like, what the fuck else am I going to do? Like what else I'm going to do? I got to do this shit. So I'm doing everything at him, like for real.

life, like the worst times, the worst level of depression I ever had in my life. All I had to do is think to myself, like, all right, so you're going to kill yourself? Because you're definitely not going to kill yourself, and the only other option is to keep fucking going, you know? Yeah. Like, if you're not going to give up, then you got to keep going. And that just, like, was enough to just put it in perspective. I just tweeted this the other day. Like, my brokeest times is where I came up with my best idea. No, my brokest times. It's like, I, one time I was around some people and I was, like, coming up with ideas, trying to help them out with shit. Because it's like, I

I just feel like I'm a walking idea. Like, my brain don't turn off till I go to sleep. And my man was like, how do fuck you coming up? Like, how you keep coming up with all this shit? I said, if you see in the building I live in, bro, if you got to walk in the building, think about this, Adam. With the building I was living in, I walk in the building. At the time, my daughter is like two years old.

I got to pick her up so she don't step on piss in the elevator. She got to smell that. I go in my house, I got to see roaches. You know what I mean? I didn't have bed bugs. You know what I'm saying? I don't come outside. I didn't walk down the staircase and seeing people taking a shit in a staircase.

Humans taking a shit in a staircase. This is how I'm living on a day-to-day basis. That shit put something in me that said, if you don't, like, you better get the, your family deserve better than this. So it's like that's where I'm at with it. And that's when a person come to me and they be like, yo, I got an artist, so I got this, I got that. If you ain't trying to be great, I don't want to hit that shit.

If you just try to get money, you can fucking trick. and fall and break your ankle and get money. That's why I told somebody the other day, like, bro, I think they got the lotto. They got the lotto. They got all this fucking money. You could make money. Like, 95% of people that hit the lotto lose a lotto. I mean, lose the money.

One of the while? Because they was never trained for it. They was never built for it. It just happened. It's tougher to maintain the bread. So like, I just, I built myself. I conditioned myself like, I'm built for this shit. Like, once more shit start happening for me as media-wise, I'm like, I'm built for this shit.

I know what I'm doing. I know who I am. I know what I'm about to do. And I just be trying to encourage the youth for that. Because I've been the youth. I know what it's like to be 18 and everybody's saying everything you're saying is stupid. Or people are saying, you 17, what the fuck do you know? You ain't going to know nothing to you, 21?

You ain't this shit. By your time, you're 25? You ain't, I know what it is. And I know what it is to be 25 and look back at your 18-year-old self. I know what it is to be 30 and look back at my 16-year-old self. So now I'm just telling them like, yo, if you feeling it in here, like, yo, it ain't working. And it ain't, yo, get back up on that horse. man for real

keep grinding man I think the thing that's separating you is the amount of practice that you have the amount of work that you put in when you actually like like if you're somebody who feels like oh you ain't made it yet like my advice to somebody who wants to be a musician is not like make a couple

songs and then just go crazy trying to promote him it's like no you need to spend years and years working on your music years of nothing of restricting yourself from socializing from from staying in from not going to the bar All of my, a lot of the work that I did to make it where I'm at now is because I didn't

go out and have fun with my friends. Yo. Listen, man. Yo. And people don't like to talk about that. And it's kind of a harsh reality. But the reality is if you want to make something out of yourself, you're going to have to give up a lot. My pops told me at you one time.

My pops was like, he said, like, he was fucked up for a year. He was like, he said for one year I kept like two pair of jeans. And my pop's a street, a street dude. Like, my pop is a street dude. a street dude to the core. And he was like, I just hustled for a whole year straight to get myself right. You know what I mean? Like, hustled, like, took a whole year just not doing nothing, just getting money.

And then once I did that, I was able to do everything I ever wanted, but that discipline. That's the thing we don't talk about in hip-hop culture is discipline. Monefuckers ain't got discipline. A motherfucker make a record, a hit record, and don't even want to come talk to you or nobody at radio to promote it. Like, you got a mixtape out. Well, Adam, no jumper, what they want to talk about? I know that they do that.

I've been around artists that do it. Man, I got to do that. I'm trying to go smoking. I'm trying to go fuck with this bitch. That's how the mentality is. It's like, you don't really want it. You don't really want it. Man, listen, Kobe, like Kobe and Mike is my favorite players ever.

And you think Kobe, like, Mike wasn't chasing money. He was chasing greatness. Like, Michael Drew and was not chasing no fucking bread. He had bread. He just wanted to be better than everybody to the point he was obsessive. I'd be feeling like I'm obsessed with what I do because I'd be missing shit with my kids and all that

and I feel bad sometimes. I was talking to my kids before I got here and by the time I called them, they back home like, it's going to be late. They might be sleep, but I'd be like, guess what? When the wintertime come, ain't none of y'all motherfucker's cold.

You know what I mean? Ain't none of y'all hungry. So it's like if I got to take this sacrifice now to being around them at certain times, then I got to do that so that I could build something sustainable for it. How old's your oldest kid? 17.

So what's his perspective on her? What's her perspective on you making something to have yourself, especially over the last few years in particular? She's in her, Ivy League College. Really? You know, Ivy League college with a full academic scholarship. Damn. The fucking brainiac. We work in my career.

Wow. You know what I mean? Like, she, I mean, she loves it. She think it's cool. It'd be funny. Like, every time, like, we'd be out somewhere and people want to take pictures with me, they laugh. I got three. They just, they all laugh.

You know what I mean? They'd just be cracking up. Like, you know what I mean? But I also be having to put them, like, make them be aware because everybody's not our friend. Like one day we was, I was dropping them off the camp, summer camp, and we in a car and some dude, he walking by, he must have noticed me. So my kids is getting out the door and he's walking up to the car. I looked at him, I said, not right now.

It's 8 o'clock in the morning. I'm like, you know, not right now. But I'm telling my kids, I don't know who the fuck this could be. Y'all better pay the fuck attention because everybody's not our friend. You know what I mean? And I don't live a life while I'm looking over my shoulder. then I don't live a life with like I'm beefing with other artists or other media personalities of people where I got to watch my back and worry about my kids.

But you know, people are fucking insane out here. You know what I mean? So they're all good though. They love this shit because they all get the stuff that they want. You know what I mean? They all happy. They don't want much. They just want me into the day.

That's what I. Hey, do you ever, is it a challenge to think of something interesting to say on TV every day? Nah. Because I don't even think. You guys got to put in a lot of work to come up with concepts and shit because a lot of A lot of times people don't realize this is that there's not something to really talk about and rap every day. Yeah.

So, yo, you know, so, you know, I met Chilis Gambino and I, like, I fucking walked up to him and I said what up to him and shit. And I just wanted to talk because my youngest daughter, she's seven. She loves Chalers Gambino. And I just wanted to tell him, I was like, yo, my daughter loves you and all that. He was like, wait a minute, you're that guy off that show, right? And I'm like, I'm like, oh shit, this thing is know who I am. I'm like, yeah.

So he was like, yo, he said, I think it's so ill. He said, I think what y'all do is so ill because he said, like, everything that he does. And he was telling me, like, everything I do in my world is, like, scripted. We write it out and all of that. And we act it out. He said, I can't imagine, like, having to get up and talk every day about shit. You know what I mean? And that put a different perspective on me.

Like, I never thought of it like that. Like, I could talk. I don't have a problem with that. But it's like, we get, you know, our topics for the night. I go over them. And I know, I'll be like, I know academics going to be on this. So I just be thinking like, all right, I'm going to just take this perspective on it, because I know where he had with it.

You know what I mean? Like we don't even, like, when we sit in the morning, I don't be like, yo, act, what you gonna say? I'm gonna say this, you gonna say that? We don't do none of that. Most of the time I get there, this nigga be sleep. You know what I mean? Like, what he just passed on the couch there or something?

He was knocked out like this. Like, knock the fuck out, you know what I'm saying? But he, like, he wake up. That's one thing I know about act. The cameras come on, that shit. He's good with that shit. Really? Yeah, so, and we got, like, we built over the past year.

like we built that shit the way like we both understand like how we are he knows like same thing with me like he knows like how i think about things and i know how he thinks about certain things so it's like even with us like we debate but our debates is not me overbearingly yelling and just telling him he's an idiot you never went false star on him that first argument where he said you were bathing in the tears of the Chicago youth that you were making fuck bro that was so fucking because to star yeah that's what this was was like You're going for blood. No, but I love that.

I love when he was like, he said, Frato, he said, don't, when he told him, don't, uh, salute Frato because he called him the demon and some shit or something like that. Recipe's Frato. You know what's crazy? I was the homie and I never got a chance to meet him. We always used to talk and shit, yeah. I talked to him a couple times at like shows and stuff, but to be honest, I don't know if he was all there ever at one of the times.

Like he was always like the last couple years, man. He was fucked up. Yo, you know, it's crazy. So when he, because we met, I was talking about him on Twitter and then he followed me and then we used to talk and then we exchanged, we exchanged, numbers and we used to FaceTime from time to time. And then like, you know, the last, one of the last conversations he had when he had, I think he had a seizure, I had text him, I say, oh, bro, I hope you, I hope you okay.

You know what I mean? I think we, I text him and then we face time and I was like, bro, you got your son, you know what I mean? Like, we gotta be here for him, can't be playing with that help? He's like, yeah, man. And then one day I hit him again. And I was like, how you feeling? He's like, sober as a motherfucker.

You know what I mean? But yeah, man, he was, I think that, you know, and like I said, man, like in Chicago, they go through a lot of trauma, they go through a lot of shit. And you know, that shit starts, you know, you start medicating yourself. And you go into a whole man and it's tough to get out of. But, you know, my condolences to his lady and his child and his family. I never got a chance to meet him face to face. But we, like, we had a good rapport with each other. R.R. P. Fredo. Okay. Last question. Academics has like his own platform. You guys do the show together. Is there a part of you that wants to start your own thing, like your own

podcast or your own video series, YouTube thing? Yeah, man, I actually like I've been working on a few things, man. I've been working on a few things. I've been trying to, like, it's crazy because because I was kind of thrust into it and I was part of a show. It's like I'm on a team. It's like I don't know what it really is to be the star player of my own thing. Right.

I mean, so it's like I've been learning. Like I learned from academics. I learn from watching your platform. You know, I pay attention to like with say cheese. That's nothing to drinks. I like a lot of different people do. And I just, you know, I pay attention. I've been writing down a lot of ideas, but like 2020 is going to be good.

for me, man. I'm working on some shit. I mean, I'm working on my own stuff. A lot of people want me to write a book. A lot of people want me to write, I mean, they want me to write a book. They want me to do different things at the year. Me and one of my partners, Jonel, we're working on doing like a master class where we're going to go around and do like a tour. I have these same type of conversations and teach like the youth and just people who want to learn about business, you know, the business and give them some, you know, well wishes. So there's going to be a lot of stuff coming in 2020 for me. Dude, I feel like the fans are going to really appreciate this. Two hours out of 22 and Wayne don't

getting deep. Man, I really appreciate this out of man. This is a jam right, right? This is a classic shit, man. Thank you, man. I appreciate you for real, man. Thank you for real. Thank you for real.

I appreciate your team too, man, for real. I appreciate anybody doing dope shit for the culture, making, advance and shit, you know, having those conversations and stuff. And a lot of times it goes, like the work that you guys do, sometimes I think it goes underappreciated. Like when I think about it, I think about how much I like watching Joe Button and shit. I'm like, man, him and Ack were on camera every day for like a year. I wasn't watching it every day.

Right. I took it for granted. Yeah, man. I feel that way when I think about a lot of the good content out there. It's like, damn, I'm not. Yeah. And I just, yo, Adam, lastly, I just say this, man. Like, I'm not competing with nobody.

Like, I feel like so many people is just trying to compete. It's like everybody wants to start their thing and they want to. And I mean, we are competing in a sense. But I mean, like, I don't look at Joe as like, man, I can't watch state of the coaching, man, because he was on everyday struggle and I'm da-da-da-da. And I don't look at it like, you know, you Adam 22 and you, I look like, yo, listen, man, I'm a person. I love hip-hop.

I love hip-hop coach. I like the sub things, set around it, and I'm into what I'm into. And I'm going to support anybody who builds any type of content that I'm into, and I'm going to fuck with it. So it's like, for me, I'm just on a, I'm on a wave and a vibe where I'm just on some shit like, man, I'm on some worldly shit, man. I'm happy. I'm the happiest I've been in my life.

And I ain't even get rich yet. That's fine. You got richer though, right? Richer, but not rich yet. Well, I might really have the finally rich album, like, when I get there. See? There you go. You get the back piece, finally rich.

album cover. Absolutely. There you go, man. Hey, I appreciate you coming through for real, man. It's dope to actually get to know you. Absolutely. And to get to connect on this level. And I think the fans are really going to appreciate it.

We're going to keep it going to, man. Yeah, man. Thank you. Wayno. No Jumper. Coolest podcast to the world. Check us on YouTube, SoundCloud, iTunes, like, comment, subscribe.

Nojumper.com if you want to support. No jumper, cussion, stores. Appreciate, y'all. Peace.