No Jumper - William of Bay Smokes on Creating an 8 Figure Hemp Empire Selling THC-A Weed, Lil Baby & More

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

William of Bay Smokes talks about his early days building the brand, milestones, upcoming projects, and more. Check out Bay Smokes! https://baysmokes.com/pages/free-thca... ----- Shout out to all our members who make this content possible, sign up for only $5 a month    / @nojumper   Promote Your Music with No Jumper - https://nojumper.com/pages/promo CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! https://nojumper.com NO JUMPER PATREON   / nojumper   CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... Follow us on SNAPCHAT   / 4874336901   Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4z4yCTj... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media:   / 4874336901    / nojumper    / nojumper    / nojumper    / nojumper   JOIN THE DISCORD:   / discord   Follow Adam22:   / adam22    / adam22    / adam22   adam22bro on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Jumbert, coolest podcasts on the world. And today I'm in here with William of Bay Smokes. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm excited to have this conversation. You've been doing some big stuff in the cannabis space.

So tell me how you got into it in the first place, like where you're from and what led up to you entering the industry. I'm from North Carolina. And I mean, I smoked all my life throughout high school. And so I got into college. I went to ASU for a year. And I saw really just a bunch of kids making a lot of money. money in e-commerce and so I knew I wanted to do something with e-commerce instead of like going

through college and so I ended up dropping out to do different drop shipping things and eventually I realized I wanted to like start a brand around something that I was more passionate about and not just selling random and other people's products because I've seen people talk about drop shipping a ton online and a lot of times it just seems like you're sort of finding a way to market like random garbage from China yeah yeah or whatever it is it doesn't have to be garbage it could be a good product but it's like you're just doing only the marketing piece of a business and letting somebody else fulfill the product and have the business or whatever. Did you manage to do well while you were doing drop shipping?

I just made enough money that like pay rent and like taste money outside of working a job that is like, okay, I can I can make something work. Like I see that it's possible to make money. So now I just need to find a better product and like build something. And I mean, I saw the CBD bill pass at the end of 2018 and that's when they're was happening for me. And I realized like, okay, CBD is something I used a lot when I was in high school because I had a bunch of concussions from sports.

And that was like, you know, makes your headache go away completely. So I was like, okay, I'll be able to start a business with CBD and hopefully eventually it turns into weed one day. Right. So you just kind of saw that vision early on? Yeah. I mean, I figured like it would evolve over time. I didn't realize that it would evolve how it did because it kind of went from CBD to Delta

8 and then eventually what we're doing now, like this THCA flower thing, like, That's equivalent to dispensary products. It's regular cannabis that you'd get into dispensary, but we're running an e-commerce shop, and we sell to smoke shops all over the country as well. Oh, wow. Okay. So you start off doing the CBD thing because that's fully legal. So you didn't have any kind of problems legally or anything when you were doing all that?

It's a federally legal. Like the bill that was passed to make CBD legal was a federal law. So now hemp cannabis, that's, you know, under a certain regulation of the hemp bill, is federally legal. So then how do you get to doing Delta 8? Was that always legal? Yeah. That's kind of the thing about it is it's not that anything changed that made Delta 8 legal or something changed that made the THCA legal.

It's that the law was what it was when it was passed in 2018. But people just, you know, the longer it went along, people realize like, wait a second, the way this is written, it's actually making Delta 8 legal and it's actually making regular weed legal. And, you know, of course that feels like a real ballsy step to go from like, all right, CBD, like, of course this is legal, but like technically regular weed is legal, but, you know, obviously marijuana is federally illegal, but regular weed that's called hemp is legal. It's kind of this weird thing of like, you know, technically it says it is, but even,

you know, as I was kind of, I mean, that was probably four years deep into the hemp industry when really like the first people were starting to do it. I saw a couple people do it. And I, my initial reaction was you're going to jail. Like you're clearly going to get, you know, caught by the DEA doing this or whatever. And eventually I saw a good friend of mine doing the THJ stuff as well that like he was like very like strict with everything laws to the T, had lots of lawyers kind of giving advice before taking any next step. And I saw him doing it.

I was like, shit, okay. Like, you know, I need to really look into this. I talked to a couple different lawyers. They said, yeah, like regular weed is technically legal. It's called THA flower. And like here's what you should be worried about or not. worried about and like here's all the things to consider but generally speaking yeah it's federally legal go for it right because well how risk adverse would you describe yourself as because obviously

a lot of people in your position are basically just shipping pounds around the country and really just taking risk with it and just kind of assuming that there's just not enough scrutiny for them to get into trouble we all know tons of people who've made millions of dollars basically just kind of hoping to skate around the law for sure yeah I mean in terms of like risk adverse like I feel like I went through being a reckless kid and going into college and kind of my decision and moving into life like how I was like that was kind of me deciding like okay I don't want to do anything illegal I don't want to ever be in a situation where I could find myself with criminal liability for absolutely anything and so going into this space like I really kind of kept the same thing like anything that I do

like I would talk to a bunch of different lawyers and make sure that you know under no uncertain terms in my you know is there any ever any criminal liability and so I feel like really confident with that that everything that we're doing is like absolutely totally above board so you know in that sense you know i'm risk adverse in the sense like i don't want to do anything criminal in any extent because the long-term vision that i see for this needs to be kind of with a foundation of complete and utter like above board you know without uh anything that could be misinterpreted or otherwise so yeah because when i was younger i was down to take all kinds of risk to make some money.

But as you get older and you look at it and then you're like, it's like, I want to build something. Yeah. And it's like if I can make $10 million, but I have a 10% chance of getting 10 years in jail, then what the fuck is $10 million when the downside of it is this like catastrophic situation that would basically ruin your entire life. Yeah. The risk of this really is like it's uncertain what the future of it looks like.

I mean, generally speaking, the trend seems to be that, you know, federally, we're moving in like just a good direction for cannabis as a whole. And like obviously this is a great step, but it wasn't necessarily the intended step. Like wheat has technically been federally legal since the 2018 farm bill, but it wasn't necessarily the intention. So now it's kind of like on a state by state basis, what are they doing about it? Some states that already had like, you know, California has medical and recreation already. So they kind of banned hemp from being sold in smoke shops, but like they can still sell it wholesale. And there's kind of like this weird space of it, but, you know, generally I have an optimistic, you know, hope for what's next in this.

And, you know, weed's already federally legal. So we're working a lot, like, with lobbying groups to kind of keep it that way. Because it's a weird situation because obviously, like, as something becomes legal, you want to kind of be the frontrunner so that as it becomes more legal and this becomes more settled, then you can kind of be already established. That's the ideal situation. But, like, at the same time, by being more established, you're basically, you know, I'm thinking of things like galaxy gas where like they obviously I'm not comparing what you're doing

but like that shit like they they pulled it off the market because they were the frontrunner in that market and that was the thing that I'm pretty sure they were terrified that they were going to get the attention of the feds whereas there's probably like a million other nitrous brands that are doing similar stuff marketing that aren't worried with jewel you know jewel is like the front runner in like that higher potency nicotine vape and now there's you know they're the ones who get the scrutiny not everybody. Yeah. And then there's a million other vape brands with all different types of flavors that are actually appealing to kids that, you know, they're not getting the same sort of like massive

lawsuit. There's a lot of danger in being the market leader. Yeah, the first and the biggest for sure. So, okay, in terms of like Delta 8 and THCA, for people who, you know, live in California and are used to being able to go to the dispensary and get like very high quality weed, like how would you compare those products in terms of how high they get you and how high quality the product is? Because I feel like for a lot of people, I've heard them dismiss Delta 8 or TCA. And I often get the idea that they don't necessarily know what they're talking about. They just kind of figure this out

for themselves that they think that it's low quality or whatever. So from your perspective, like, what's the comparison like? So Delta 8 being the first popular thing to come out of hemp, that's any type of THC, kind of gave this whole space of battle. because Delta 8 is like a it's like a it's a semi-synthetic basically form of THC and it doesn't get you as high it's like maybe half is strong so because that was like the first you know gets you high product to come out of hemp that's already a bad reputation of the hemp side of things THCA flour is regular cannabis is the exact same thing and just like you know in a dispenser here you

could go and get like an outdoor eighth or something that's super low potency or it's really dry and gross. Like you can buy that super cheap. You also can get like the top shelf most crazy eighth in the world and it's super expensive. So in this side, it's the same way like you can buy really shitty flour or you can buy really amazing flour. But the thing to kind of consider of it is because this is such a new thing. And it's getting more aged at this point, but it's still kind of in this new wave of like

a lot of companies rushing a THCA. A lot of people are selling like cheaper like greenhouse stuff. and they're calling it exotic because they're just not smokers themselves. So I don't really know what the market is actually expecting. And so that's kind of also damaging the appearance of what is ham, what is THCA is people selling shitty greenhouse stuff calling it exotic. But definitely the market's going to mature over time more and more.

And it's already getting that way a lot where people are getting a lot better flower, even with like, you know, shitty random smoke shop brands. That's just like some distributor decides to spin up a package, put it out there. and like someone who already sells a bunch of nicotine vapes or there's already selling like anything that would go into smoke shops, they can easily spin up a brand, push it to the same distributors that they're already working for. And now it's it's out there. So the quality is increasing quickly. But generally speaking, you know, you get what you pay for. Right.

Okay. Interesting. So, okay. But what are you guys? What's your involvement in? Because the THCA stuff is the stuff that you basically what you sell through the mail. That's what you have to do. But then are you guys involved with actual traditional.

weed as well? Like what's the divide there? We're thinking about it, but it's just like, you know, traditional weed when you say like that, you mean like the California medical recreational kind of systems. Like the thing about that is we're selling the same product, but it's way more taxes, way more, you know, licenses needed in regulation. And like the system isn't good. Like it's a really shitty system that's set up like the metric system. Basically, you go in any dispensary and you're picking up a product that's like four months old. Like that's like the average. I mean, for me, every time I bought from a dispensary, like, it's always at least like three or four months old. Right.

And that's a long time for flour. Like, it's like you wouldn't want to buy like grapes or strawberries that are four months sitting on a shelf. But why is it that old? Because there's this ridiculous system where it's like from harvest that has to be quarantined and tested and moved here and moved there. And like it has to be tested by this facility. And it's like all of these steps are like, okay, it adds a week here. It adds two weeks there.

It adds a month there. And like, then it has to move from this person to that distributor as this. and like it's just like a long process to follow all the different regulations. It's like extra not necessary. I'm not going to say not necessary because like, yeah, you want stuff to be tested, but we test, we do the same safety tests. We do the same metals pesticide, all that, potency tests as the other side. But the extra restrictions and the extra like, okay, you have to only test with these people.

You have to enter through these systems. Like it just slows the amount. It adds basically a waiting time between harvest and getting on the shelf to the, and consumer. Right. Like, it's cool that weed, that we have legal weed and everything. When you talk to growers, when you talk to dispensaries, et cetera, it just feels like they're, like, pretty unhappy with the system.

Yeah, the system sucks. Yeah. It's really bad. So a lot of people, even on the whatever side, they're looking, hey, how can I convert my license? How do I revoke my, my California dispensary license or their growers license? And how do I just get a hemp license? Because then I can sell, I can grow the same stuff.

I can have an easier testing process that I can test it and get it out to customers faster and I can sell all over the country and not have to have the same you know issues and situation so so when you say the same stuff like what is the actual technical difference like there's no technical difference or whatever like the hemp law says that um I think it's like 15 days prior to harvest you're supposed to get it and send it off for a testing like if you go and see like a lab test on like a dispensary product it'll say like 25% THCA and whatever amount of delta nine it says you know, maybe it says 1% or 0.5 or whatever, like normal cannabis doesn't have Delta 9 THC, but that's like the specific wording of the hemp form bill.

It says about this type of THC that's like normally under 0.3 anyway. Right. So basically like a lot of weed smokers are kind of misled about the potential for TCA and there's just not as much of a reason for people to have sort of like an elitist attitude about it. And that's kind of like your purpose is to sort of like spread that knowledge or message. I mean, I think the way that things are, like this law being in place, it allows people

like myself who I started a business with like, my initial purchase order of product was probably like $10,000 or something like that. So I started like literally with the ground up with no tons of extra funding. I've seen a bunch of people that are my customers that have started smoke shops that are like THJ dispensaries with really small amounts of money as well, like $8, $10,000, $15,000. And they're making tons of money now. It's like that system isn't possible for people to kind of get in just because they're passionate about the plan. They're hustlers or whatever.

Like you can't just get into the California market or where I'm from in Florida. You can't just get into the Florida market with anything short of like hundreds of millions of dollars. And like here it's like at least hundreds of thousands of dollars really to get started. So yeah, I like to just spread this message. And that's why I do partnerships with like people like Little Baby and like the other artists and influencers and stuff that we work with. Like I'm my goal is like if I can spread this information as fast as possible now get more people into the hemp side of things. We'll have more people on the lobbying team to help keep this law legal. Oh, okay.

So that's the goal is to not like change existing cannabis laws, but more so to keep this situation that you guys are sort of benefiting from. Yeah, I mean, it's it's not like I'm the only person at hemp. Like there's like hunt. I mean, thousands of companies probably and like all of them like I've heard so many stories along the time that I've been the space of people. of people who got in and started with very little amounts of money, just because, you know, whether it was CBD that helped them or weed that helped them for this, that or the other, you know, they have their stories about why they're passionate about this space

and why they've been willing to take the risk work as hard as they have been, but able to build something up from pretty much nothing in a legal way, bank their money and everything. Are you guys generally seen as kind of the frontrunner in this space? I wouldn't say that I'm the biggest, but I feel like in a lot of things, like I've been early to the game, like especially with THCA flower, I was early. What I'd say I'm seen and recognized as in this space is like I've done a lot of social

media marketing and like online marketing. So in this kind of like Instagram, YouTube kind of community, like, you know, if you follow any of the kind of cultural people, you've probably seen my brand a bunch of times over the last years because, you know, that's one thing that I think that I'm really good at is marketing online specifically. because like when I think of base smokes like that's what comes to mind is I've just seen all these rappers doing promotion for it and it's weird how like a single promotion can sort of easily fly under the radar and not get that much attention but once you've seen 10 rappers do it 20 rappers

do it then it starts to really kind of ingrain itself into your mind and and the brand name all of a sudden like has some sort of meaning to the consumer even somebody like me was like massively jaded to things being promoted to me you know sure yeah definitely so Generally speaking people are. So when did that, like, like, what has the conversation been like in terms of marketing that got you to that realization? Because I know you guys are probably like massively held back in terms of what you're allowed to do advertising wise, right?

It's just about like on a lot of platforms you get deleted. And like we've had like probably 10 Instagram accounts deleted all being like, you know, the first one and it was deleted like almost 300,000. The second one was like almost 200,000. And it's like, you know, we just. burned through Instagram accounts like crazy to the point where I don't even know what our our at handle is now like the 10th one or whatever um YouTube we haven't really had problems so much but Instagram in particular Twitter is awesome because it's like you know

they're kind of fully embraced cannabis now so yeah there's tons of weed ads on there and stuff it's pretty well ads through the platform on Twitter really you guys do do that yeah and is that beneficial like it actually works yeah I mean like anything like paid ads like it's not like it's just like a guaranteed money-making machine. You have to be good at advertising. You have to know what to advertise and like the whole funnel of like where do you send the customer and what offer they're promoting or whatever. So it's a learning curve and do it, but you can definitely make it profitable.

So when like when a little baby does like a base smokes promotion on Instagram, like what are you guys actually trying to drive the consumer to do in that situation? Is it to just follow you on social media or probably not because that's such a precarious situation? Like that's the number one thing that I want people to do. is like that's why like a lot of the rapper promos that we did is like hey you want to go get a free eighth like that's kind of like our our big promotion funnel is like we literally give away a free eighth and we've kind of been improving the quality of the eighth over time that we give away at first we were giving away like greenhouse stuff and smalls and now we just start up giving away

like an exotic eighth because it's working you know we go an eighth and people come back and the consumer goes to like a smoke shop to get that or like online oh online okay yeah and they don't have to give any money and they're able to get a free eighth and the mill? They pay shipping. Shipping for shipping. Okay. Getting an exotic eight. So damn.

So on any individual, because I was like, you got to pay a little baby six figures. Yeah. And so does a single promotion become profitable or is it more of like a long term play? I mean, it's like you said. It's like, you know, one promotion might not do anything, but like I've been doing this for Bay Smokes is five years old now. And I was in the space since the beginning, but base smokes alone like, you know, Anyone might have seen it 12 times.

And there's like a marketing theory that's like sometimes you need 12 impressions before someone's actually going to click through and buy it. So it's all just like, you know, when you're building a brand, it takes a long time. It takes a lot of effort and a lot of money to just keep blasting the internet with, you know, your brand logo and what you're about and what you're doing. And eventually people are like, let me give this a try. Definitely. What like the cannabis industry. Okay, when you're getting your Instagram deleted over and over and over, do you think that that's just because it's, Instagram is so unforgiving about any kind of like quote unquote drug promotion or is it because

within the industry it's so competitive that people are really like aggressively going after each other's accounts that's by far the more accurate answer is that like people see what you're doing they're like fuck this kid marketing doing well whatever it's going to go pay someone to delete his account or whatever that's a very common thing yeah I mean most of the biggest weed related brands that I can think of have dealt with us to some extent including the ones like cookies that you would think would have. Yeah, would have some sort of connection. Enough leverage to be able to stop that from happening.

And you see Bernard dealing with it probably like more than almost anybody on Instagram and stuff. He's been pretty vocal about it. But yeah, I mean. It sucks. And it's just like there's not too much you can do, you know, you can. There's like back channels and stuff.

Like I'm sure you kind of have seen some side of that from, uh, even this as well. But like there's no like support email from meta or even for Twitter or for any of these platforms where you can like, hey, I'm a business and I rely on this and like I've invested a lot of money in this and I'm losing money because it's gone and I was unjustly deleted. Like I've been deleted it and it said like for impersonation or something. Yeah, everybody. Yeah. I'm not impersonating myself. You know, this is someone that, you know, use some report bought abuse or something like that. Yeah, because we didn't have the no jump or Instagram for seven months and then that's a huge impact on your business. Huge. And I made a video

basically talking about it and then within a couple days like a representative got in touch with me who was able to get us back on there, which is crazy. Yeah, yeah, just pure, like, how much attention can you drive to this issue is basically like the deciding factor of if you're going to be able to exist on the platform or not. I mean, it's, it feels like it should be criminal, but at the end of the day, like, they just get by on the excuse of like, we're allowed to have whoever we want on our platform and just completely ignore the way it's being abused.

Yeah. It's crazy. So, okay, what are the challenges in terms of like running a business that exists and kind of a legal gray area because you guys don't have access to like traditional banking and stuff as well, right? We do. Yeah. Actually, First Citizens Bank, like shout out to them.

It's a North Carolina bank and they're great. You know, I love the people there. They are totally in support of our business, like the hemp industry and everything. So that's a great ally for this. But generally speaking, like a lot of people do just bank with whatever random normal banks and it's not typically a problem until you get a wire from like, some idiot whose LLC name is like smoke shop weed LLC or they're just like nope we're gonna flag this shut down your account here's your check have a nice life wow you know so so you guys never had to deal with that you've like

got into a situation with a good bank from the beginning uh yeah yeah early on we started working with them but i've never personally had my accounts closed but i've had a million PayPal cash app venmo like i'm banned from all of that yeah um i mean there's a handful of other different financial services that i've gotten and ban from like it just hey this is a normal business that we should be able to definitely use this but they have no tolerance for cannabis or hemp or anything so uh yeah there's a lot of like red tape in that regard yeah no definitely like at one point like the the only fans world deals with a lot of the same problems that you guys are dealing with but like my wife had her PayPal deleted

that she'd had for like 10 years has money on it too yeah yeah yeah lost money and it was like basically because like, you know, just being associated as the only fans person or whatever. I think she wasn't even doing anything porn adjacent with her PayPal, but they still just took it out. It's crazy. And it'll keep your money too. Yeah. It's again, one of those like their terms and conditions is just kind of like shady enough that they can just do whatever they want and like not have to explain anything to you either. I know.

We have to basically just like sit back and hope that the AI gets smart enough to be able to differentiate between abuse and, you know, normal complaints. complaints, I guess. I don't know if that's even... Well, there's just better financial systems that come out. Definitely. How big is your actual team? Like, how many employees do you have at this point? About 100 people.

A hundred different people. And what, you just got like a big warehouse of Florida? Yeah, we have a big warehouse in Charlotte, North Carolina. It was in Florida, but there's like a massive MSO company in Florida that's literally spending over $100 million a year to lobby against hemp. And why? Because it's like they spent hundreds of millions of dollars, probably billions of dollars establishing the Florida medical marijuana system with such a moat around it that if I wanted to play in that space, like I said, at least I have to bring $100 million to the table.

And then I'm still not guaranteed a license. Like it's, it is a fucked situation. It's not fair. And it doesn't make sense for a plant that's so easy to grow. Right. But separate conversation. Sorry, what did you say? We're just talking about the size of the business and where it's located.

Oh, yeah. We moved it from Florida to Charlotte. as we were in like a big period of growth because I saw all that was happening and I didn't want to risk like I had to get a bigger warehouse space. I had to hire a lot more people. I really didn't want to have to like build this whole team, hire a bunch of people and potentially have to fire them because it's like, oh shit, the law just changed. Now we have to move and now have to find an entire new team of, you know, 50 people or 100 people or whatever it would be in a different state and a different location. So when I was at that point of having to grow, North Carolina was like clearly the better option from a legal standpoint. point and like a longevity standpoint.

So I moved there. And do they take any kind of interest in you or are you basically just left alone? What do you mean by that? Like legally. Like is there any kind of attention being put on you or you're basically just able to do? I'm sure I'm on radars because like I promote all over the place. I'm not like quiet at all about what I do. But we're in full compliance with everything.

So it's like we have like a legal team that's just constantly auditing our business and like making sure everything is just totally good to go. because like I said, like, I don't want to go to jail or anything. I'm following the laws as, as they're written, and that's that. And, you know, but I'm sure I'm got to dock it on me somewhere. Definitely. But I mean, yeah, so you're kind of like constantly auditing the business in hopes or in hopes that if you do get audited, that it'll be a relatively seamless process. Yeah.

And also, I'm like looking at this like for the future of like, okay, potentially this company could go public in three to five years or something like that. So it's like, I want to have a foundation established where it's like there's not going to be any issues preventing me from establishing like, okay, this is something with enterprise value down the road because we were fucking around or like had loose ends or whatever in the beginning. So this is like your first round of interviews. Is that a conscious decision? Because I feel like you becoming more of a well-known person in the industry that obviously is kind of beneficial. People could see you. I want to support this guy. I like what he's doing.

and I like what he has to say, et cetera. But then the other side of that is that, you know, the feds are also watching and you might want to be considerate of how big your name gets a result of that as well, right? I mean, my name is out there in terms of everything. I've always been public about being the owner and doing everything that we're doing. But from the sense of like who we are as a company, what we stand for, what our goals are. Like that's, I realized like, okay, I've built this business as big as it has been by just

pounding marketing. And now at this point, like, I want to tell people who we are, like, do a storytelling of like, who is the business, what do we stand for? Like, what is our goals and everything? And like, you know, the goal is like, okay, really principally to keep weed legal in the way that it is. And so to do that is like, okay, I want to share this story. Like, hey, guys, weed's legal. This is what it is. Like, if it comes up in your state to vote about it, you should vote, you know, to keep this legal because it's a great situation. You know, people can, you know, in a lot more cases, there's a lot less people going to jail for weed. And like, that's just something that I don't want to happen at all anywhere in the country.

People going to jail for weed. So definitely. Yeah, I mean, the storytelling aspect is tricky because, like, if you had asked me a couple weeks ago what they smoked was, I probably would have said it's like a trap weed brand that does promo with rappers just because I never looked into it. But when I see rappers promoting some random weed brand that I haven't heard of, that's just kind of what I assume is that there's just, you know, there's a lot of other brands that fall into that space. But it's got to like how do you approach that? Because it's got to be tricky to do

the storytelling aspect of it when your Instagram keeps getting deleted and it's difficult to like I feel like it's a weird thing with weed where such a huge percentage of people smoke weed. But then meanwhile, the amount of people that have the level of attention to really pay attention to brands is like kind of comparatively low. Like everybody smokes weed. But then like the weed podcasts do, you know, relatively small numbers as opposed to like in hip hop. It's like hip hop itself is gigantic, but then the hip hop media is also pretty gigantic. But there's so many people that are like casual weed consumers that don't feel the need to like really be interested in the industry and whatnot. Yeah, I mean, I feel like in a lot of senses like for alcohol.

I'm sure no one's like too particular tied into like their favorite alcohol. Right. That's sort of craft beer world is like one percent. compared to that actual alcohol world. So it's not like my goal is in particular to like make everyone in the world like fall in love and follow the story and everything. Because what, you know, it kind of boils down to a basic like I started the company because I liked smoking weed and I liked selling weed and I found a legal way to do it. And, you know, at this point it's like we've got a great fulfillment and service. You can buy good weed at different prices and it'll get shipped your door illegally.

Like there's not too much to in that regard. I guess really the more intention that I have of like, okay, sharing the story and all is like at this point in the industry, I feel like it's kind of like a crucial inflection point of like really spreading the news of like this law is, you know, weed's been legal for this long. Like we really got to fight to keep it legal because it's, you know, we have an increasing lobbying budget. So to all the other companies in the space. Like we're having to spend more and more money on lobbying each year because like more different state by states, it's popping up that like, hey, we didn't realize that weed's been.

legal and what are we going to do about it now? And like, you know, there's always the save the kids angle and then it's, you know, it's, it's really just a lobbying game. It's like, so I'm young and I don't know anything about government and politics and what, but I've had to learn a hell of a lot about it because of being in the space and literally having to play and fight the legal battle of like keeping this legal. Right. Is that kind of.

Is that kind of depressing to have to sink so much money into the lobbying angle, which is just like a system that you probably feel shouldn't exist in the first place? Like it just shouldn't be like this. Sure. I mean, anytime I'm sending boatloads of cash to like our lobbying group and I know it's like just going to fund somebody to stand in a in a courtroom and just like plead our side of the situation.

Like that's not like a, oh cool, I'm growing my business. And it is like an abstract thing that they ultimately could go to nothing, you know, but I don't know. I mean, like I said from the start like this is something that I'm passionate about.

It's something that I care about. And like I want weed to stay legal. And this is a fun. business to be in. So, um, just paying my, my dues to the industry along with like everybody else. That's kind of a part of it. So you started the business while the pandemic was already like pretty much the start full swing. Yeah, really the, the right at the beginning of the pandemic, like I had just moved to Miami and

launched the brand and like that's when like right at the start of the pandemic. I got to assume that we'd experience something similar to what podcasting did where everybody just had massively inflated numbers. for a period of time. It was a great time to start the brand. Right. But then also, like, were there decisions you made during that time period that you kind of look at now, like, that like shit, maybe we expanded too fast.

Oh, a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of times in the beginning, I mean, this was my first, because like I said, before I just drop ship stuff. So other than that, like, I had zero experience of like running a package goods brand or like managing teams or anything like that. So I'm going into this, like thinking like, okay, like, I just market.

it and grow and we'll figure the rest out. And, you know, we had huge spikes of growth. And then it's like, oh, the manufacturer can't keep up with us. And that was like led to a crash. Or like, then we moved to a different person and we started using a third party logistics warehouse. And it's like, oh, now this guy can't keep up with us or he's stealing from us or like different problems. You know, so many different problems that have come up throughout the, you know, course of the business. Also, because like a lot of people who are working in this side of the business. They're not like business professional people. They're just like, oh, I, you know, used to sell weed and now I'm in this and like they don't really know how to operate a business or

manage their own money or anything like that. So you know, you're dealing with a lot of just like all over the place characters in this space. And just me being like a kid basically like growing this business that got really big really quickly and like, oh shit, you know, we had a lot of learning curves to that, that growth crash, growth crash, growth crash, growth crash. But ultimately like I think the most important thing for me was when I brought on like an executive team of like people who had run and scale much bigger companies. And they brought a bunch more wisdom to the table of like, hey,

how can we keep growing and not crash? How difficult was it to put together that team? How did you get in contact with them? Yeah. Because like, I mean, you put up a LinkedIn ad and like I'm just interviewing people like to be, you know,

high level people in my company. Again, I have no experience. I didn't go to business school. A lot of the biggest companies that I've watched over the years, that's what they've had to do is basically you got to hire like a CEO for your own business. and it's very difficult to hire somebody who's smarter and more experience than you.

Like, you're basically hiring somebody who would be able to do a better job at hiring themselves than you are possibly capable of. Yeah. So that's, that was like my first like executive hire. Like I hired a CEO because that's exactly what I thought. Like, I mean,

the biggest thing was like operationally. Like I'm really good at marketing. And I wanted to focus on marketing. And I really know the product. I really know the opportunity of the business. And like there's a lot of this that's relationship based. And like I'm really good at all of that. like the kind of boring back end of the business.

Like, it's like that's daunting and tedious and it was taking me away from my high value skill. So it's like that was the whole. It's like, okay, I need to hire someone who can just make sure everything is good on the back end. And I mean, I think I got lucky with just like the person that I brought on was really good for that. And they brought on some good people as well. So, you know, there's some amount of luck and some amount of like, hey, this is what we got. We're rolling with it. And we just kind of keep working through it.

but it was just a gamble, really. Is there any, like, specific mistakes or, you know, learning teachable moments that stand out to you in terms of things that you wish that you had understood beforehand? I mean, ultimately, whatever decision you make while you're in business and growing, it's like you're going to make a lot of mistakes, and sometimes they're expensive mistakes and you lose a lot of money, but I wouldn't say it's like, I wish I knew this beforehand for anything really in

particular because all the mistakes kind of just led me to where I am now and it's seeming to go continuously in a good direction. Definitely. What um, okay, besides just like working with rappers and influencers to do promotion, like you guys do sort of like street wear style drops, right? So like, what like what what other things move the needle in terms of marketing? Like what what actually works from your experience? I haven't tried so many different things. I mean, it's, it's kind of just like in this space too, like when a opportunity for marketing pops up, a lot of times it goes away pretty quickly also. So really the most important thing that we've done and anything that we're doing for marketing is like we're constantly testing new things and a bunch of different avenues across all platforms, like every single social platform across like doing billboards, doing TV, doing like this, that and the other, like even in in person activation types of things. and it's just having a team that is like aggressively testing new things

and constantly kind of doing like idea meetings where it's just like all right what are some good ideas of how we could do this the most valuable like thing that I feel like we have as a team is like people who really understand content creation and how to make stuff go viral with with content because that's kind of like the foundation of online marketing you have to like create stuff that's capable of going viral on its own and then you can pay to boost it. Right.

No, yeah, you see that kind of constantly. And, like, the best stuff of that sort is stuff that the average consumer doesn't really understand that they're even looking at an ad. Like, I see that all the time where I'll see a pop crave post or some shit or an account on any other, like, Instagram account or, or sometimes I'll see the whole hip-hop YouTube world taken over by a story or a narrative. And I'm thinking, like, all these people talking about that have no idea that that's an ad. that my account and this account and this other account all got paid to post that. Yeah. And then it became something that like dominated the internet for a couple days. And all those people don't realize that they're basically just like playing into something that was astro-turfed for a couple thousand bucks.

Yeah. So that's kind of wild. And then I'm sitting here just like not really wanting to say anything about it. I don't want to like give it away. But I've seen that all the time. And like one of the craziest things is when you see artists who haven't dropped, people would be like, oh, that artist hasn't dropped. album in 10 years for this and this reason. And it's like they don't know that I've seen that artist team by promotion to like basically

test the waters to see if they're going to be able to get the interests of the people. And then they like back off when they realize that the people aren't really like reacting or responding to that. And I'm like, you might think that they just quietly took 10 years off. But they've actually been kind of plotting on what their moment was going to be this whole time. It's kind of bizarre like that. Exactly.

Like that's you're kind of repeating like. they are testing in a bunch of different ways, a bunch of different things. And like, you know, they might test it in a small way enough that you mainly might not even notice it until something catches. But once something catches, it's like, all right, now, like, dump as much as we can into exploding this moment. Yeah, exactly. And that's why so many artists who are assigned to labels are just kind of languishing away and, like, not really experiencing any kind of growth is because the label is basically putting it on them. Like, you need to, like, find the song that has some kind of potential. that will start moving and then we can amp it up.

But until you get to that point, we're not going to be able to just take you from zero to 60. You know, you have to like really lay the groundwork yourself. Even if you are artists who they previously gave hundreds of thousands or a million dollars or whatever, definitely. So like,

do you get a lot of personal hate online or anything? Like, is there an amount of blowback that is kind of hard to deal with? Or is it not really like that? I feel like it hasn't been so much. directed at me, but at the brand. Like, I've definitely seen people like talk negatively about it. And there's like, throughout the entire time, you know, you're dealing with like people

just downplaying hemp for like, oh, that's fake weed or whatever. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's like I've kind of been in the space watching the trajectory and the change of mindsets about everything. And slowly but surely people are now realizing on this side, like, oh, wait, THA is regular weed. And this actually makes a lot more sense that I buy it from a legal company because then if I get pulled over, I don't have a Ziplog bag with weed in it, that's clearly, you know, marijuana. I have a weed or cannabis, whatever, in my THCA bag and this is legal.

And now, you know, I can't get in trouble for this. I wonder, though, in like Middle America, how effective that argument is when you get pulled over and you're pointing on the bag. Be like, look, it says THCA and you've got some like knucklehead, 23-year-old cop that doesn't know what the fuck is looking at. People still are getting arrested with it. And I've seen, like, some shitty body cam footage of, like, people getting tacked. And the guy's like, no, I bought this in a smoke shop.

Like, what the fuck, man? And like, you know, it's still happening. But the point is, is at the end of the day and in court, like, ultimately it's going to get thrown out. You might still get tackled. You might still got thrown in the back of a cop car, which sucks, super sucks. Now you're going to have to deal with whatever we're going to have to deal with. But you, you know, if you bought a legal hemp product, then you had, you didn't have criminal intention.

And what you had wasn't an illegal product. So it's like, okay, you can't get in trouble for that. You know, they can make you go through the loop. oops and but a lot more places like they're they know what this is and they know where their kind of extent to get you lies and like I feel like in a lot more places in the country than ever before because of this hemp law like people aren't getting bothered more besides like they might take it you know but they're what are they going to file all this paperwork and all this stuff just when like they've probably already done that before and realize like oh shit like

this doesn't go anywhere it says it's hemp on the packaging like at the end of the day, I'm going to fill out all this paperwork just to look like the dumbass because I brought him in for a legal product that he bought in a smoke shop that it's technically legal, so I can't do anything about it besides confiscate it and throw it away. Yeah, I realize having this conversation too, like just how warped my view of the way cops feel about weed is because in California, obviously it's about as permissive as you could ever imagine. And a lot of states, too, even when you're in New York, you know, I've been like sitting around smoking a blonde and had like two or three cops.

walk by on the street and they don't even look at us. Yeah. And being someone who, you know, lived in New York at a time where, you know, we would have to go like huddle together like homeless people under a fucking bridge or whatever to smoke weed because we're so paranoid about getting caught up. It's like, I don't know, it's just so bizarre to live in that world. But then when I hear about people in Texas or Florida or whatever who just get fucked with by the cops to an extent that it's kind of hard for me to imagine in this day and age, it's like, oh, I forget that that's like one of the biggest. value ads of living in California from a young age. Yeah, but honestly, Texas is kind of like one of the crazier things in my head of this industry

because Texas is like massively adopted this whole THCA dispenser thing. It's currently being debated in courts. Like I think a bill to ban it passed in the Senate, but in the House, I don't think it's passed yet. And that's where our lobbying team has spent the most resources like, you know, convincing them like hey let's keep this legal but like there's t hs shay dispensaries all over texas probably if you're out smoking a blunt like you're still going to get harassed or like you know they're going to take it from you or otherwise because generally speaking a lot of people in texas don't want that like in their

culture or in their face like they don't want to be like seeing someone smoking a blunt or whatever like the culture here is like a lot more people i feel like are open about smoking weed it's it's just kind of part of the culture yeah i mean that's got to be a tough conversation once you have a rolled blunt in your hand to be like no it's CHCA because what the fuck is the cop going to possibly do to take it though yeah yeah you can take it for sure the thing of that and that's why this is like at the end of the day like i said nobody should go be going to jail for it so the punishment in that situation more often than not is if anything gonna take it from you hey you can't smoke here and i don't know what's in this but you know you're saying it's t hsd maybe you have the t hsd

bag or jar in your pocket but you know i'm just going to take this and tell you to fuck off Have you thought international at all? Yeah, for sure. But the U.S. market is like so big. And I think especially for cannabis because we kind of like have a much earlier start than a lot of the other countries. Like the weed in this country is more like the sea and the culture and the businesses and everything. It's more advanced. And so my kind of goal is more so focused around growing the U.S. market.

And then, you know, I don't, we only have so many people. We only have so many teammates to kind of go after all of this. It's like there's a lot more opportunity in the U.S. than the same thing that's like, oh, why we're not doing like a dispensary or California cannabis is because like the best opportunity is really the nationwide hemp thing that we're doing now and there's still a lot more room to grow. How many packages are you sending out of a day if you could estimate?

A couple thousand. Really? Yeah. Wow. And do you feel like would you be able to break down like what percentage of those are your established customers versus customers that are new being brought? brought in through advertising? I think we have a really high rate of returning customers.

And it's kind of just something that builds up more and more over time. But it's hard to say exactly what's like, you know, the returning versus the otherwise from the far angle. A lot of times people are like making new addresses or new emails or whatever to order. And so it's not like perfectly trackable. But I'd say probably like above 70% is like really. repeat business. Really?

So you see a lot of people where this just becomes their day-to-day, how they get weed is through you guys. Yeah, I mean, because we have, I mean, a ton of different offerings, really, really competitive pricing and really good quality across the board. But the smoke shop route is like increasingly where more of our business is going. We kind of started as e-commerce and then we evolved into a lot more like just distribution. So that's kind of like the biggest part of the business now because at the end of the day, most people, when they want weed, like they want it today, they want it now.

So e-commerce is like a little bit of a weird avenue, but the benefit of buying it online is like you're getting it as absolutely fresh as you can versus you buy it in a store. Like it could have been sitting in a distributor, could have been sitting in the distributor's warehouse for a month. It could have been sitting at the smoke shop for another month. And now you're kind of dealing with the same dispensary problem that I was describing earlier where it's like the common experiences that you're buying old weed. Yeah. I always hear from people who work in dispensual. that, you know, I probably have an artificial view of what kind of weed is popular because I'm around so many rappers who take pride in smoking the best weed possible.

And they're like, no, like when it comes to dispensaries, people walk in and they don't give a fuck what they're buying quite often. They just want like the cheapest shit possible. Is that kind of your experience, too, that you have to really market. You have to have options available for people that really don't have a lot of money to spend. For sure. I mean, we're in a recession right now.

So it's like the stuff that moves the most is definitely the cheapest stuff by far. I mean, that's just kind of like if you go in any dispensure and you ask the owners and the bud tenders as well, like that's, you know, unless you're in a particularly like bougie area, like the cheaper stuff is probably going to be what sells the most. But like the high end stuff is just kind of like separate. Like I mean, for better or for worse, I've kind of made base smokes like a super store of like we have all the options. We have super, super cheap options. and we have the most high-end flame exotic stuff as well. But it's kind of like different ways of marketing two different people. But yeah, I'm not a branding expert by any means.

So it might not have been the best move to kind of have all the options, but that's what we do. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's probably a ton of people that are on the more high-end part of the market as well. The thing about cannabis is that the market is massive. It is like probably $150 billion annual across. like regulated marijuana, hemp, and the black market. And so it's not even just like the rap culture and everything.

Like, even this is just like a subsection of cannabis smokers. Like there's like soccer moms that smoke a lot of weed. There's old people that smoke a lot of weed. And there's hippie culture that smokes a lot of weed and country culture. Like there's so many different cultures that's like, it's not like one brand is going to be able to service everybody or be the biggest absolute everywhere. You know, it can be the biggest of that one niche.

there's a lot of different subcultures of cannabis definitely do you uh like the little baby collab in particular like what did it take to make that happen and was that something that kind of uniquely moved the needle um it was a it's a really big collab for sure uh what it took to make that happen is like i said like i feel like i'm good just relationship with people and like um in this process of everything we're doing with rappers it's like okay i kind of have an open bid out like hey, any rapper with the following, like I will give you money to promote my brand. And, you know, eventually it was like,

okay, I want to buy from a little baby. And I get to little baby, it's like, hey, I want to buy from you, but I know you have this like WAM thing that's already like established, but it's not really available for sales so much. And like kind of my thing with him was like, you know, I think you have the biggest weed brand ever that's not available for sale anywhere.

What if I did a partnership with you and we have it available, nationally and like I'm taking the risk for you and I'm financing it and like I'm plugging you into the system like I already have all the fulfillment centers and the grows and everything handled so you know we can instantly turn this on and I'm pretty sure it's going to be massive and I mean he's a business person who's like yeah like let's do it that sounds great and I think why it happens is also like you know A the platform that I've already built it's an impressive platform so someone like him can see that and go like okay like this guy's making

a lot of money like it's it's clear that he could do the same for me and be like the trust. Because like I said earlier also, like there's a lot of shady people in this space that you wouldn't trust them as far as you could, you know, throw something at them. And so seeing somebody, I mean, I feel like I'm overly honest, overly transparent. And, you know, that's like a relief of someone in this space and, you know, whatever, to interact with it's like, okay, I feel pretty trustworthy with this guy. With the artist as big as little baby, though, did it feel like it was primarily his decision or does he have like a team that this really kind of had to, go through because I'm not sure like how many people are part of his operation of course it has to go

through like a legal kind of check he has other partners and like really great about my my partnership with him is like he had like a design team that you know has been creating all this amazing artwork and like um cool accessories and merch and everything for I mean I don't know how many years they've been doing this but like at least four years they've been like building all this brand assets uh that you know I was just able to kind of come in and And it's like, you know, I've done deals with rappers before where it's like, okay, I do the deal. And now they're like, all right, now you do everything. It's like, whoa.

I thought you guys were, you know, you had a team to do some stuff. But, you know, working with him, it was great because they had a team to do all of that branding work, which honestly, that's one thing where I felt like we were weakened to some extent beforehand. And so it's like, all right, that's done already. Obviously, he's got a big marketing platform and a big name already. And the brand is like, people already knew what Wham was. They were already smoking Wham from. them their drug dealer that's like fake wham or whatever. So it was a really easy thing to kind of pick up and just roll with.

Right. Were there any like big names that you've tried to work with that you weren't really able to get through to or that you're still kind of working on? I'm talking. I feel like anyone that's like even the biggest rappers, like I've talked to or I am talking to trying to either convince them like, hey, just promote my thing. I'll pay you. Come on.

Just take the money. Or otherwise I've tried to do like other partnerships and stuff. I don't really want to say somebody's name, like something that I'm talking about or something that didn't work out. But anybody that's big, I've tried to offer money to. What was the Pine Park PR crisis? Pine Park PR crisis. So one of the people that we partner with at one point, we had a brand with him. And he was a weed YouTube influencer.

And that was on, he had a podcast that he was a part of called Pine Park. Oh, okay. Yeah. Basically, we did a giveaway at one point. and we gave away a pound and whoever shipped the pound at the warehouse, I guess we were out of whatever we were supposed to send and they ended up substituting it out with like a lower quality pound.

Okay. And they were not happy with the quality at all. There was the issue where they thought it was like moldy or something. But the winner of the giveaway was actually like a influencer that we had worked with. So it's like she had a bunch of people's numbers of other people at company. And we don't know exactly from her perspective what it, you know, the exact issue was, but she goes straight to the internet and she's like blasting us on Twitter and like this weed community about it because she's an influencer in the weed community.

And she's like saying all this stuff like, oh, like they're not helping me. They refuse to do this, that or the other. And like she never reached out to us at all about it. So, you know, we tried to kind of address the community through the influencer that we had partnered with. And he kind of went and just like, threw us under the bus instead of like, again, it's like, okay, hey, we could have just addressed this, talked about it and like fix the issue. But, you know, we had someone who was a partner throw us under the bus and just be like,

okay, I'm completely cutting ties with them because they're, you know, I didn't know anything about this. And it's like, you couldn't just defend everything else good that we're doing instead there's such an incentive associated with just talking shit about anybody. Like everybody, even the most bare bones content creators just understand that there's a lot to be gained by dissing someone or shitting on someone. Even in this case where I was like, they probably could have maintained a business relationship. and that probably would have been more beneficial in the long run.

But I just hate what the internet has done to people's brains where they just feel like that's the way to go. And it's like the weed content space has developed so much. And like now I'm some for some reason, the algorithm is like feeding me videos of different weed YouTubers making videos talking shit about other content creators. And I'm like, okay, you guys are a few years behind the hip hop world. But this is basically like already the space that we exist in. in rap where like people are just kind of always looking for someone to trash.

I mean, that's like really strongly the case in like cannabis culture on Twitter, especially that I've seen like it's like and Reddit also, but like there's some really toxic cultures around this where, you know, growers that are like, you know, they're home growers or whatever. Like they're just so ready to shit on anybody else in the space doing it or like people who have a brand too. Like they want to shit on other people.

Like other consumers, they're like, oh, I really like this brand. I'm just going to shit on everybody else. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just kind of the nature of the business and like this is like, it's not the like general customer, but there's a lot of customers in this space that, you know, they're ready to fall in that bandwagon of like hate or praise or whatever it is and like cycling through brands that they're, you know, happy with this week and not happy with the next week.

But it's just kind of like that's part of running a business or getting big in general. Like you're going to have people that aren't happy with what you're doing or like, you know, especially when you have a big business as well. It's like there's problems that are. are going to happen. And, you know, normally under any circumstance, like, as a business, like, we're just going to fix the problem. But someone wants to just go and complain on the internet instead of, like, coming to us for a resolution. And that's their prerogative. And, like, we can't really do too much about it. But it's not the, it's not the end of the world. It's not the

entire internet. Definitely, even if it feels like that in the moment, yeah. It definitely does when it's like someone's coming after your business, your brand. It's like, you know, it's like, we put so much effort, tireless, like, endless hours of like every single week for years, like, putting into this trying to, you know, make it a good thing, provide a good service, whatever. And, you know, they're just coming after like the one mistake or whatever it is. So definitely. It feels that way, but like in that story, the thing that I thought you were going to say was the controversy was the fact that somebody who had already worked with you and was an influencer for

you was the one who won because I've seen that come back to bite people in the ass over and over where somebody will be like giving away a car and then the person who wins just happens to be somebody they're friends with and that's viewed as. And there's like all this technology that basically allows you to sort of randomize. Who wins giveaways and stuff like that? Normally we used this like random Twitter picker thing for giveaways, but I think in this case, like the Pine Park group picked the winner. And I mean, I was completely removed from the situation of like the marketing team kind of set this up with them.

And the Pine Park people picked the winner of it. And then whatever happened at the warehouse, they sent the wrong pound. But then, you know, afterwards that was my kind of like shock of it. He's like, oh, my God, these people fuck this up so bad. Yeah. I feel that. So what's your vision for where the brand could be at in the next two to five years? Like what are the areas of growth that you're focused on?

I mean, really to kind of get us out more and more into as many smoke shops as possible and potentially start other brands as well. Because like I said, like all of this is, you know, you can only reach so many people with one brand because the way that we're marketing and targeting people, it appeals towards a a certain demographic versus like, you know, a different demographic might see this brand. And even though it's the same product in a different bag, they just don't align with it or they don't, you know, something about it doesn't stand out to them as much or they don't trust it as much. You know, like some people want like a clean professional, like medical kind of looking thing or

something that's more appealing to like older people versus like, you know, this brand is more appealing to like rap culture and that sort of thing because we've done so much promoting with influencers and rappers and stuff. So yeah, just kind of expanding in as many ways as possible. Hopefully we can make more good new partnerships. But really the most important thing of like the future of this is like I want to ensure that this law, you know, however it goes, that it transitions into, hey, this is what federal legalization looks like so that we can kind of continue in this space. Other people continue in this space. It's easy access for whoever wants to kind of participate in.

They can get in without, you know, crazy, you know, insane licensing fees or this, that, and the other. And eventually, you know, that would be awesome to take this globally. Hell, yeah, man. I learned a lot, honestly, because I've always kind of had questions about the THCA stuff, the Delta A stuff, et cetera. So, yeah, definitely it feels like I learned a lot, honestly, and you guys seem like you have a great business going on.

So, uh, congrats, man. Thank you. Yeah. How old you? I'm 26. That's actually insane. That's pretty crazy. When I was 26, I wasn't doing jack shit.

But, man, yeah, congrats. So for everybody out there, where would you direct them if they want to interact with the brand? You don't know your Instagram handle right now. So that's part of the problem, I guess. Basemokes.com. Go get a free eighth. There you go. All right.

Appreciate you, man. Thanks so much. No jumper. Shout out Bay Smokes. Like, comment, subscribe. Coolest podcast. We out.