No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1026: KPMG Storylines + Gil Hanse

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Randy, Cody and TC catch up on all things LPGA and preview this week’s KPMG Women’s PGA Championship at the Fields Ranch East Course in Frisco, Texas. In part two of our preview (45:00), Randy and Cody chat with the course's architect, Gil Hanse, for his perspective on the challenges that are facing the best players in women’s golf this week. Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: ⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠ Support our sponsors: ⁠Titleist⁠ ⁠Omni If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome into the No Laying Up Golf podcast. I know we're just off a busy US Open week, but it's a major week on the LPGA. It is the KPMG Women's PGA this week and to help me. Are we allowed to say preview Cody? Is this I think this falls into a true

preview. I think it's gotta be saying preview. Yeah, Mr. Big, of course. Thank you for having me on your golf program here. But yes, I think this is a preview and we're sorry. I'm not sorry. But hey, if you are offended by JP put so much work into the deep dive, I thought it was awesome. I learned a ton. But yes, we are here to preview Fields Ranch East at Omni PGA Frisco. It's a mouthful.

The whole week is going to be a frisco, a mouthful. It is a mouthful. I hope this as well. Mr. Tron Carter TC. What's going on, man? Gentlemen, hello. Just just here to honor the 31,000. This week.

Once again, they're back for more. Well, very good. Cody, why don't we, uh, off the top, we got a couple sponsors to thank the first being, I believe our good friends at Titleist. Yes, biggie every week on the PGA tour, LPGA and around the world. Titleist tour reps work with players to make sure they are dialed into their equipment. Why?

Because it's a critical component to playing your best golf. Here's the thing, custom fittings are not just for better players, they are for anyone who wants to play better. A certified Titleist fitter can help any player at any point in their journey, find the right clubs to unlock another level of play. Your fitter will start by getting to know you and your game, you, your specific needs, drive the fitting experience.

If it's about learning which shots you need and finding the right products to produce results and lowering your scores. TC, you seem to be the guy. I know you got a new wood in your bag a couple months ago. You're always talking about your fitting journey. I'm getting fit tomorrow, which I'm excited about new iron season. What do we got TC? How important is it? It's everything, especially your gapping. I think everybody focuses on their gapping at the bottom of their bag with their wedges.

And I think it's probably a lot more important to get your, your hybrid long iron fairway woods set up dialed. I think Neil and DJ are getting fit today, actually. Literally as we speak. As we speak. Fitting SZN. Yeah, I'm excited about some of these new irons that are coming out. I'm excited about the 280, the little mini driver that I've got in play right now as well.

It's been Randy. I'm, I'm flashing. I'm flashing. I tell you what I've, I hit the TSR one, which is the driver I've been in. I'm getting fit for the GT one. They're going to have to pry this TSR one out of my cold dead hands. I'm, I'm eager to try the GT one, but I'm also, it's got a, it's a high bar to clear, man. I've been hitting my drivers so God dang well the last like 18 months. It's crazy.

Well, you know what's going to make the difference for Mr. Big as well as me and TC as we get fit for our new tier series irons is the fitter and the fitting experience. If you want to play your best, please. The first step is simple. Go to titleist.com and find a titleist, fitter or fitting event near you. Yes, very important. I can attest to that truly like playing the best golf of my life. And nothing has changed. Well, I've been getting consistent.

I had never heard that big. I mean, just measuring by handicap. I'm I'm I'm in a new, new zip code handicap wise have been. So I can attest fitting works because I certainly haven't been putting in the hours on the practice range. That's for that's for sure. Different tax bracket big when you start messing around with that handicap index. I know I'm giving good bar strokes now.

It's good schools in this zip code though. That's true. Yeah. Cody, you mentioned we're at Frisco Omni property. Let's go ahead and thank Frisco. They're a big part of this week as well. Absolutely huge part of this week, big. So we got the preview today.

We're gonna do happy hour on Wednesday. We're doing live on Saturday night as well as Sunday. And guess what? Wednesday happy hour I'm going to be live at the very cool Omni PGA Frisco Resort and Spa from one of their ranch houses. We've seen it out there on the dance floor. We got a ranch house this week buddy and I'm pretty excited to talk about it because we know the golf is amazing but the entire resort and entire complex are tremendous. This place has everything a buddy's

trip could need. You've got the swing, their short course, a 10 hole short course for fun, including being fully lit up at night for those evening rounds. The dance floor, a massive putting green. It's like two acres. Big, ridiculous. Two championship level golf courses.

Of course, Gil Hansa's Field Ranch East and Bo Welling has the West course, 13 fruit and beverage venues, and enough off the course action to keep your group rolling after the final putt drops. I know if I'm planning a golf trip with my guys or even my family, I'm I'm gonna have a little family time this weekend at the ranch house. I'm pretty excited about Omni PJ Frisco Resort has every box checked with season two of the Omni Generation Cup starting back up next month, the resort and 11 other Omni golf destinations

will be the host qualifiers throughout the season for you, your family member to tee off for a day of fun, camaraderie and competition on the course. Find a location now at omnihotels.com forward slash golf and prepare to play the possibilities. Thank you, Domny. Thank you to Titleist. What do we got cooking here, Big? Yeah, Cody, we got a good one. We're going to preview the action this week, we're going to get into our thoughts on Fields

Ranch East, we're going to go over the broadcast coverage, we're going to talk about some of our favorite storylines, maybe the most important storylines coming into this week. And then in the second part, we're going to talk to Mr. Gil Hans. He and his team designed, built, developed Fields Ranch East. He's got great insight into not only what went into building out the golf course, but some of his favorite holes, favorite stretches, what to look for out there, how he anticipates it playing. Gil's the man. It's a great interview on the back half. But yeah, guys, before that,

I think quickly we can touch on, it's been a couple of weeks since we've talked LPGA specifically. TC, I know this is going to warm your heart. Last week on the LPGA tour, we had Carlotta Seganda winning for the first time in eight and a half years up in Michigan. On the LPGA. On the LPGA. Yes. I mean, congrats are in order for the Sloat. Yeah, she just anchored down, you know, hot weather. Just, I can't imagine Carlota, I think if she could go back to back on a big golf course like this week, it would be, it would be truly a nightmare scenario for a lot of the other, just clogging it all up.

Oh, and the heat down there in Texas, I can only imagine. I will say this, or big, if I could have a couple words here. It was very bunch going into Sunday. There was like seven women that had a chance that were very much in this thing. And I will say this, Carlota went out and won this thing. And she's playing really, really good golf this year. Like phenomenal golf. No, I know that. But she also like has this thing where she gets a couple big numbers out there. She's only know that. But she, she also like has this thing where she gets a couple of big numbers out there. She's only missed one cut this year happens to be at the U S women's open and like she's putting together a, a very proper season. She continues to climb both on LPGA, you know, CME list as well as Rolex rankings.

And she like had, she had that fight Sunday. And it's not like it was a completely like week, you know, nobody's playing a week before the major, you know, leaderboard out there to include Lexi, you had retired people out there chasing her down or attempting to. But 67 final round, enough for a one stroke victory, very much deserved. Now, I think this week's going to be a little bit different because hopefully they make pace of play more, you know, keep eyes on a little bit more. But it is good to see Carlotta win again on the LPGA tour. Yeah, I totally agree. I she was very deserving. Yes, absolutely

well said. Celine Boudier tied forth. Haven't seen a ton of her, but that's a nice result. You mentioned Lexi. Uh, weird to play the Meyer as a retired golfer, I think, but that's limited schedule, Randy, only the tournament she's enjoys. Okay. Sure. It seems to be like every tournament.

Yeah. I don't know. Akki EY, one of the EY twins. She shot a fire on 65 finished T7. So yeah, congrats to Carlotta. A couple of weeks ago in New Jersey at the ShopRite, Jennifer Cupcho captured that tournament. She defeated Korea's Inhee Lee. Gino Titicum finished T 11 Nelly finished T 15 that honestly felt like a week I was surprised to see all those people playing

shop right after the US women's open I think a lot of women were satisfying their requirement to play that you know what is it once every four years or five years three years whatever the the specific three rounds two yeah three rounds but I hear you know everybody raves about that event not only for its years, whatever the specific rule is. It's only three rounds too. Yeah. Three rounds. But I hear, you know, everybody raves about that event, not only for its location, but how they're kind of taken care of both players, caddies, everything. There's a ton of pro-ams where they're like getting extra cash and all this other shit, so yeah, good on them, but very, very strong field.

And it kind of triggered something for me because we're going to probably talk about Mimi Rhodes and her what she's got going on on the ladies European tour. But I wanted to go and look into the Rolex rankings and just see the differences in points applied to a four round tournament, whether it's in Japan, Korea, LPGA tour versus a three round tournament on the L.P.G.A. Tour. The points discrepancy is still so skewed. And I was like, why does this make? How is this still happening? Because Rolex literally is just strength of field, but like more refined. It does a lot better of weighting it than OWGR does. And then I was like, well, shit, you have Nelly, you have all these people playing in this event.

Of course it's way up there. I'd be curious. And then I was like, well, shit, you have Nellie, you have all these people playing in this event. Of course it's way up there. I'd be curious. Did you go back and like look at last year's shop, right, to compare or any of the previous? Well, let me. The crooked Rolex rankings. Which there is, yeah.

There's, I want to find somebody who actually understands these Rolex rankings to like explain it to us. I think it'd be a very fascinating discussion. Jay Ray understands it. Yeah. But you know, he talks, sometimes he starts talking so fast about big numbers and things like that. It's hard for somebody to keep up with, but it's, it's nuts, but I am happy. You know, what that did was start thinking of looking at strength of fields for Korea and Japan and how much higher they are than the ladies European tour. Absolutely recognizing hitters, which I appreciate.

Couple things just to tie off on Meyer. Another good week for Madeline Sagstrom. I was a little bit disappointed. She was right in the mix and kind of a poor, poor final round shot 73 final round and ended up finishing six back. Like she's been one round away a couple, couple starts in a row now. And then Randy, I just want to shout out Saki Baba, you know, tied for the low round of the day on Sunday and, uh, you know, 65 and, and she's, she's part of this, you know, like a lot of other Japanese players have gotten a lot of the notoriety of late, but Saki Baba good, good pedigree there.

So she, uh, with that result, she's up to seventh TC and the, uh, the rookie of the year race this season, the top four are all Japanese women. Rio Takada is number one, Miyu Yamashita, and then the EY twins are three and four. So yeah, you're right, Saki playing some good golf. Fun to see that. The player of the year race real quick, you have Mao Saigo leading at 88 points, Rio Takada second with 68 points, and then Maya Stark and Gino Titicom are tied for third with 66 points. Cody, you mentioned Mimi Rhodes earlier. She's over, plays primarily on the Ladies European Tour. She will be in Frisco this week. It'll be interesting to see how she's doing. She and Sarah Kuzkova of the Czech Republic.

Sarah just won last. Kuzkova. Kuzkova. She won a couple of weeks ago in Tenerife, which was her second consecutive victory on the LET. Mimi and Sarah are one two on the order of merit over there. And then just a quick shout out, Darcy Harry of Wales won last week's LET event in Belgium. So

TC, I saw our girl Helen Bream, the 19 year old German girl. She's fourth on the Order of Merit three straight top fives. I feel like she's she's progressing nicely for us. Time for her to just, you know, kind of say hello world as soon as we get to in that lead up to the Netherlands next year. Yes. She I mean, she kind of laid a goose egg. She should have won last weekend.

And learning. We're learning. Process. Yeah. Well, she has one. But don't kill our buzz here. Oh, for sure. Yes, I agree.

Generational. You brought up Mimi. Do you know how she made her way into the field for this week's KPMG? I actually don't. And I was curious about that because I didn't think they would like necessarily give L.E.T. people any like exemptions or anything. So how is she in the field this week? Well, they do they give one let exemption for last year's points

getter, which usually doesn't make a lot of sense because of somebody who already has LPGA status and is high enough in the Rolex rankings. Mimi is getting into this week's KPMG women's PGA championship via received a special exemption. She is one of two. So it's her and of course, Stacey Lewis, who is like 500th in the world now and is a KPMG ambassador, which I understand, but also feels like probably should somebody else should be getting an exemption now. I don't know. Maybe I'm out there

by myself on this, but just doesn't really seem to be playing too much like competitive golf as of late. Is she retired? Is she playing it? Did I miss a? Did not say retired. Nobody said that word. Nobody has said that.

Okay. Well, there's your quick update on what's going on in both tours. So let's, let's turn to Fields Ranch, PGA Frisco. I will say quickly, you're defending women's PGA champion is of course, Amy Yang. She won last year up in Seattle at Sahale. Cody, what do we have? You mentioned briefly, but give the people our coverage plan for this week. What do we have going

on? Well, we've got this here preview podcast. We're going to be live on Wednesday at our normal happy hour presented by FanDuel Time. So it's going to be four Eastern, three Central. We'll talk travelers, of course, signature event just because we had a major. We'll discuss a little travelers, but you know, we're going to try to take the steering way away from Solly. You know, it's got it's the three of us plus Solly. So I think we should be able to get more KPMG time

out of there. Saturday night, we're going to be live. We're going to set everybody up. Everything you need to know after the first three days of play at Fields Ranch East and get you prepared to watch the final round there on Sunday. And then of course we'll be live, the live from the Kill House Sunday night,

as always presented by High Noon. Very, very excited. Yeah, and we'll do our official predictions and other picks during that happy hour. So nothing really as far as that goes here. I can report the broadcast coverage for the KPMG, at least in the United States. These are Eastern times, Thursday, Friday,

you have 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. and then 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. on Golf Channel. Saturday, if you wanna be on the cock, they have a full day, 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Peacock. NBC is gonna have 1.30 to 6 p.m. coverage. And then Sunday, same deal, you can be on the cock all day, 11 to 6 PM. NBC has 3 PM to 6 PM. The other thing I will note, there should be feature group coverage either through the KPMG Women's PGA website or the PGA of America app. So

hopefully they'll get some prominent players there. We can watch the full rounds. Fields Ranch. Why is it so, why is the coverage so much longer on Saturday than Sunday? That's a good question. Another 90 minutes on Saturday. I'm wondering if maybe, is there any like soccer?

I'm trying to think what would be in that NBC window on Sunday, but I thought the same thing. Yeah. An extra hour and a half Saturday compared to Sunday seems a bit odd, but I don't have a good answer for you. While you look that up, I'll just say one of the things that's, I think, exciting about Fields Ranch East is we're going to see quite a bit of it over the coming years. Of course, we did see it already.

The PGA, the senior PGA was there in 2023. Our very own NIT event was there in 2023. But besides this year for the KPMG, the women are coming back here in 2031. The women are coming back here in 2031. And then the PGA championship is here in both 2027 and 2034. So, Randy, I can hope it's a good venue. I can report that we'll get to that. Cause I got plenty to say, I'm stoked to hear you and Gil,

you and Gil might be too chill of a combination. I think the IMSA WeatherTech Sports Car Championship will be on NBC from 12 p.m. Eastern to 3 p.m. Eastern on Sunday. We couldn't possibly preempt that. No. No, and there's no other NBC or Comcast's own channels that you could possibly put the golf on either.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. That's what stands out. You know, we talk about the, the U S women's open. It just feels a bit more elevated than this event, uh, do mainly to the telecast broadcast, the, the resources that go into it. But, uh, we're going in with an open mind guys, TC, I want to set you up because you woke up this morning, Monday, and you were like, guys, I am stoked for this week. Can you walk us through what's got you excited for, uh, for the KPMG?

Yeah, I think, uh, I think it's going to be a good identifier of like proper golf. I'm fascinated to see how they set this golf course up. I think, uh, I don't even think the LPGA knows looking on the LPGA website. There's five things you need to know about this week. It says the course can range anywhere from 5,012 yards to 7,863 yards. So we're just going straight off of the shortest, the longest. We couldn't dare reach out to the PGA of America and try to get a little bit more info there from them. But no, I do have the fact sheet. So it says they're going to play

it at 6604. Okay. And I think there's, it's just, there's so many teeing options. There's so many, like I know a few years ago at congressional, that was a big thing of like how to set it up, right? They, they kind of overcorrectcorrected after the first round, I think. But it's a course with a lot of half par holes. I think you look at a hole like, I mean, shit, the finishing stretch. I think 14 is a par five blind drive. Really starting at 13, like 10 through 12 is a bunch of good par fours. And then you've got long par three into awesome green.

And then 14 is this blind driving hole over this little crest of a hill to green that's fronted by a creek. And then 15 is this drivable par four straight up the hill. Like fascinated to see how far they play that one at. 16 is like, I think they're going to play it at like 460 or 470. That's a, like a long, long mean par four. 17, they could play it like 95 yards if they wanted to. I mean, that one's got a ton of versatility. And then unfortunately 18 is like one of the worst finishing holes I've ever played anywhere

before. But in kind of a fascinating fascinating way to like when they had the senior PGA there a couple years ago, it was a really, really like it was interesting to see how how guys played it. And, you know, like, I don't know, I just think it's an awesome look at like, hey, this is this is a modern golf course built to test modern professional golfers. And, you know, I think it's really going to be able to separate out, you know, some of the ladies that have all the shots and there's plenty of holes like that on the

front nine as well. So I do want to note that one thing so people that if you had gone to Omni PGA Frisco in the past and played the East course for the championship, the 18th hole and the ninth hole are flipped. So they will be finishing on what is the normal ninth hole and not the 18th hole, which TC was talking about, which does stink. I know their hands were tied and that's one of the things I love a lot of the holes in the West course.

It just seemed like that part of the property they had to just get out to the good land. And there's so much drainage that they had to worry about, you know, those first few holes and the last few holes. But I think the, I'm curious to see how that plays. Nine, nine is definitely a better hole. So I am very excited. They, you know, we talked to Gil later on and he talks about the amount of earth that they had to move and everything. They built this golf course in this creek bed. So Panther Creek runs through and it's completely clay.

So what he did is that they literally brought in just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tons of sand. And it's sand capped all over the place. It's got like six inches is the minimal sand cap. In most places, it's up to a couple feet. So it's meant to play firm and fast. The ball's supposed to be on the ground running. We've had a pretty wet spring here in Texas, but it's been hot lately. Got some good rain last week, but that shouldn't be an issue

with the drainage that they have. TC, you mentioned like, this is a second shot golf course, but it definitely sets you up. If you are a longer ball hitter, you have such an advantage around here. And this is going to be like, truly one of the rare places that if you hit it too long, you can run into some stuff that you don't really see. Gilded an awesome job with a really cool crossing bunkers, crossing streams,

crossing hazards all over the place, but they'll figure that out. And by Thursday morning, it should, you know, they'll have their game plans and be ready to rock, but I'm just excited to see the ball on the ground for another major this year, cause I feel like, you know, we got that a little bit at Aaron Hills and I think this one's should be a little bit more than that. Should be firmer, should be faster. Definitely going to be hotter. And hopefully the wind picks up. I think like similar to Aaron Hills, too, like I think the ladies are gonna have to think a lot more than they do week to week. And I think that's a great thing. That's a, you know, just,

just a different test than they're used to. I think, you know, Cody holds like two, three, four is an interesting one. There's a drivable, what seven is the drivable four that they can certainly set up a variety of different ways. So like there's going to be it's, it's constant like risk evaluations, I think instead of just set it and forget it. I'm on autopilot for four rounds. set it and forget it. I'm on autopilot for four rounds. Yeah, I'm, I'm weirdly optimistic to like, I don't know how great it just aesthetically, it might look on TV. Like, you know, if you're there on the ground, when we were there, for the NIT, you know, they're they're building a lot of

houses, like out, surrounding properties. It's certainly not like a course on the ocean. It's Dallas, right? Yeah, like there's kind of a blandness there. But the golf course itself, yeah, you guys have me excited. I hope it's a very proper test. And like you said, Cody, I hope the ball is rolling on the ground.

I hope it's quick. Looking at the forecast, there's a slight chance of some rain early, early Thursday. But like other than that, it looks like just sunshine, heat, humidity, low 90s. Like it could be a bit of a survival test out there for some of the women who aren't used to this type of heat maybe. Yeah. And wind. I mean, they're calling for, you know, 10 to 20 most days, but there's a, it looks like Saturday, you might gust a little bit more. Profit all.

Yeah. Well, with that in mind, I asked you guys to come with, I don't know if they're like the top storylines, your favorite storylines. I'm curious what direction you took this. And I'm also curious where we overlap, where we're kind of thinking the same. But I don't know if we want to do this a draft or maybe we just kind of go around and we can go through what we think are our favorite storylines as we enter the week. Tron, would you mind getting us started on that?

Tron Weiss Not at all. I think we've, you know, one of my picks was going to be like course set up and just the golf course itself. I think it's a character, but I think we've kind of already talked about that. So I'll say, I'll say coverage just because I think it's, this is one of the most interesting facets of the women's majors is just the golf between the U S women's open and the AIG women's open. And then seemingly then the KPMG is kind of in this, you know, sandwich in between. And then you go down to, you know, the Chevron and then the Hevian. Yeah. And I think there's, I don't know, I'll be, I'll be curious to see kind of how NBC, how Golf Channel chooses to cover this event this week.

I think it's, you know, KPMG certainly stepped up to the plate. But even, you know, even from a statistical perspective, you know, like are the stats going to be as good as they were at US Women's Open? They had full on shot link out there, you know. And I think that the USGA has really stepped up to the plate as far as, hey, we're going to run a first class event that matches what the men have. And I think we'll see if that's the case with the women's PGA versus the PGA championship. And this is obviously the home of the PGA,

right? This is their headquarters. So you've got your guy, D Sprague down there and I'm sure we'll get some Don Rhee sightings in there as well. But let's see if they come correct. Yeah, I'm right there with you. That's all very well said. Cody, where do you want to start for your storylines? Yeah, I'm going to start where I thought maybe TC eventually will probably end up, but hey, where are the Swedes at? Stand up, right? Who would have thought that Maya Stark is now leading the way here when you look at Rolex rankings, whatever else, but in Swedish women's golf, she's up to six in the Rolex rankings, obviously coming off of her win at the first major championship

that she, you know, of her career, the U S women's open phenomenal showing there. This course again, sets up right for right for her there, you know, who knows what her game's going to be? What's the let down or if she's been able to maintain that since Erin Hills. But the other person, her close friend who was right there with her, Lynn Grant, 34th, still kind of looking for some. I know we talked about this at the US Women's Open, but TC, you mentioned it earlier, Madeline is having such a good year. Obviously, we know she won match play. She's been so close so many other times. This is a golf tournament. This is a golf course that is Madeline Sagstrom's. If you think of tough conditions, playing the ball on the ground, firm and fast, that

seat suits Madeline to a T. And I want her to continue to do that all while not trying to forget Ingrid's having such a good year. She's one on a rookie year. She's finally settling into it and she's actually coming to an event unlike, you know, the rookies finally have a chance because everybody's on equal footing at major weeks because she doesn't need to figure out all these golf courses. And we saw how that worked out for her when they're out in LA. And I think she's going to be another name that's up here because, you know, I don't know why. I think a lot back to pine

needles and like how she just loved playing the ball on the ground for Thursday while she could and then obviously set up and everything softened the place up. But, you know, I don't know. It's just it's so awesome to sit there and look and be like, wow, these four people representing their country literally could do anything at any point in time. And it's, it's got me jacked up. We should see a fan duel do a Swedish like any of these four

players to win. The thing. Yeah. Maybe it'll be a good one. And versus the field too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, Cody, to your your point too, I think, I think Lynn Grant, like this should suit Lynn. If Lynn can't play well on a course like this, I don't, you know, I don't know how many other better chances she's going to get each season. So. For sure.

Yeah. Maya went and played shop, right, right after she won the US Open. She missed the cut. I don't hold that against her at all. I had to be exhausted. Did not play in Michigan. So I also am very excited to see how she follows up that that win up at Aaron Hills. So that's a good one there, Cody. My first one, I was going back through the KPMG history a little bit, and Embi Park won this event three consecutive years from 2013 to 2015. Since that point, seven of our last nine winners have been first-time major winners. That includes when Nellie won her first major, Ronny Yin, of course, Amy Yang last year, et cetera, et cetera.

I think there are some obvious names, right, that could, if we are to get a first-time major winner, you know, like LC or Charlie Hall, Gino Titicum, Angel Yin, take your pick of the Japanese women. But I wanted to go a little deeper. Guys, I have three names that I think would be in a certain sense, surprise winners, but maybe shouldn't be as much as of a surprise if they were to win their first major. And so I wanted to highlight three names for you.

I have Sarah Schmelzel who in the last two KPMGs has finished T9 and T15. She's got three top 15s in five major starts since last year's KPMG. And we've just seen her play like good golf. She's kind of come undone. Round four has been a bit of a bugaboo for her, but playing the best golf of her career,

I think she's someone that like, you know, hey, if she's going to win one, she's got a good look at it. I have a Japanese woman, Miyu Yamashita, has quietly, I think, she's got five top 25s and 11 career major starts. She's very decorated on the Japanese LPGA. She won 13 times. She's just 23 years old. And importantly, she was part of the tie for second last year out at Sahale. So I think Miyu Yamashita would potentially fit that role. And then this one, guys, this even surprised me. I want to call out Esther Henslite of Germany. Since the start of 2024, she's played seven majors. I don't know why she didn't play the... Or no, yeah, seven majors. Sorry, five last year, two so far this year.

She's made the cut in all seven. She's got two top tens, four top 20s, and five top 25s over those seven majors. I think somebody that's of been around has played really good golf at some of the tougher tests on the calendar each year. And so another woman that I could see maybe like, Hey, she could absolutely win this thing. So those are three names that I kind of put together that could fit in that first time major winner role besides some of the more obvious ones. Randy, I think that's a good call out. first time major winner role besides some of the more obvious ones. Rainey, I think that's a good call out. I think Esther, she played, she was the one dueling with LC at Scotland last year,

right? Down the stretch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like ball on the ground. I know Don Donnell is more of an American style links. But you know, ball on the ground, being comfortable with that, I think. Yeah, I like that. How about TC another storyline from you? I think just looking back at, you know, the again, like just the last few majors, it's got to be Nelly. I mean, she is she is the needle out there. Nobody said Nelly. Yeah, she's one of mine.

I think she'll she'll be probably around 10 or 11 to one to win, which it feels like she should be a stronger favorite than that. But I think it's kind of like just nobody knows what to expect from her kind of some of these weeks, especially with the putter. So she should have an advantage weeks, especially with the putter. So, um, you know, she should have an advantage kind of through the bag on this course. And, and, uh, I think if her wedges are like, it's, she's going to have a lot more wedges than a lot of the other ladies out there. Like, again, we were talking about a whole, like 16, um, you know, that's, she's going to have gap wedge in there and other ladies are going to be hitting five iron. Yep. Yeah, it's funny. It's funny when you think about Nellie

and I think we would all probably sit here and say, oh yeah, it's kind of been a disappointing year for Nellie so far. Do you know what her worst finishes so far? 12th or something. Yeah, probably like in the 20s maybe. 20 seconds, tied for 20 seconds. Her worst, she's made every cut.

She hit the ball so well at Aaron Hills and was negative strokes game putting TC. That was my, I literally, I've written down what kind of putter does Nellie bring this week? I I'm right there with you. They should be pretty sloppy greens, right? Similar deal of like there's, you know, lock. That's a lot of the intrigue of the golf course is, is the greens and internal slopes and such. So, but they're, they're quick. Yeah. Going to be really quick. And there's some grain. These aren't, these aren't the, uh, the power or the bent, you know, I haven't heard of her like, so, you know, obviously we'll see when she shows up,

but man, if she's just kind of rocking the same putter, same like, I don't know what's going to change with her. It just, I'm kind of waiting for her to make a bit of a more drastic change. But we'll, we'll see. Cody, what's, what's another storyline from you? Yeah, you guys went with Nellie, but I'm going to go with kind of that big three and no offense to Lydia. I just don't think that she's kind of in that right now. That's Nelly, Gino and Ronnie Yen.

And you know, I would say this venue and the way all three of their games are pretty similar. You know, they're definitely power players, but they're ball strikers and they don't really have the best short games ever, but they're, they're really good ball strikers. Are we finally going to get the opportunity where like they are in it together? Because that is what this place kind of sits up for. And that is like dream world situation. Obviously Ronnie, she won this a couple of years back when it was at ball to straw. Gino's still searching. And it's one of those things where it's, it's always going to be a talking point because of how good she is. And I still think that she deserves that conversation. I do too. I do too. I looked silly at Aaron Hills, but I'm not backing down from Gino. At all. And you know, just the big question on Nellie is, yeah.

Can she make a putt? Yeah. That's a big question. I, that's a great segue. I had Ronning Yen and just kind of the underrated major run that she's been on. Uh, you, you mentioned she won this event two years ago, but she's finished top 25 in six straight majors and over her last three majors has been beaten by five total people. She was T4 at Aaron Hill, she was T2 at Chevron, and then T2 at the AIG last year. She, unlike Gino Gina Ronning, I think, has an

ability right now to play her best golf the biggest weeks of the year, I don't know what she's doing, but she's timing it up great. And yeah, if if we get any two of those three Cody that you mentioned in somewhat of a Sunday duel or as part of a pack that's going to go win it. That's a fabulous tournament. That's a good call out. TC, do you have other stuff for us? I had How Will the Course Play? I think we've talked about that. Gil's going to talk a ton about that, but I obviously also think Field Tranchease is a big storyline this week. Yeah. I think just looking at, again, going back to the senior PGA, because that's kind of our only frame of reference here. You had Steve Stricker wanting to play off of her Padraig Harrington,

and then Stu Sink was two shots behind them. And then he was five clear of the next closest guy, Wai Yee Yang. So to your point, Randy, like some of the thoroughbreds kind of separated the field. And I think Padraig and Stricker both have pretty different games. Stricker is much more of a tactician, much more of a wedge guy. And I think I look at Stricker and I see Celine Boutier of like just very, very proper wedge player, good Potter, you know, not going to gain a ton of strokes off the tee. And so I thought that was just an interesting kind of, you know, wrinkle from, from there. And then you've got Padraig who's, you know, Padraig and Stu Sink, who are just beating

the shit out of the ball and, and, you know, driving it down there. So that could be a, you could be anybody from a Gino to a Charlie Hall to a Nellie. So it's, to your point on the last round, I think the amount of depth on the women's side is both a strength and a big weakness as well from a business perspective, I think. And I think this should know, this, this

should line up as one of those courses that's not going to favor an underdog. Like it's going to favor the ladies who are the longest and the ladies who were kind of have those dominant skill sets. But I don't know. I'm like, I'm kind of all over the place because I look at like a, you leave me know, or somebody like that, like he could also have a, you know, a great finish here or an angel. Yeah. Like he could also have a, you know, a great finish here or an Angel Yin. Like there's, there's kind of, there's just so much. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Yeah. I'm about your Minji Lee. I feel like God, she could, she could ball strike her way around here.

Yeah. Cody. It was probably like a three weeks ago now is out at Trinity Forest playing in an afternoon. And like there was somebody in front of us that was taking a long time around greens and stuff like that. And Trinity Forest is definitely not Fields or Anseige, but they set up an awful lot, you know, a Gill versus a Cork Wrenshaw. But really they both, you know, to play the ball on the ground and you like to see it running. And that was Celine Boudier. Obviously she practices out there. I don't want to say a complete home game because I don't even know if she would sleep in

her bed because the amount of time it has to take you to get from Dallas all the way up to Frisco. But I could see that that does make sense. And TZ, you brought up Angel Yin. He very much is like, you know, likes to fashion herself to be the big game hunter. She likes hard stuff. She likes when other people are frustrated. I think that's what some wind and some heat and ball rolling on the ground is going to have this week. And I think there's going to be a lot of women who aren't going to really know what to do

with that. And to probably get a little frustrated and upset by the temperatures and probably how slow it's going to be out there. And Angel should thrive there. She's putting together a pretty good season. You know, she won earlier in the year. She got a top 10 at the U S uh, women's open, but I see her like really embracing this, even though KPMG record isn't, isn't all that great compared to, you know, definitely Chevron

and US women's open, but somebody is there who is always putting up a fight. Going to that point, I think the, I think like just vibes and attitude are going to be big this week. I think I've taught, you know, it sounds like some of the, some of the caddies are already bitching about the golf course and don't like it and, and it's going to be hot. And it's not that big of a wall. It's a pretty big piece of land, but I don't think it's that big of a walk.

There's a couple. It's like fucking three hills you have to climb. But overall, you know, I just think that's, that's going to be part of it. It's like, you know, it's, it's going to, it's going to feel like a slog at times. It's going to feel like a major. So.

God, there are going to be so many sun umbrellas out there this week. Guys, this is a dumb one, but actually, Cody, I'm tickled that you brought it up. The first two majors this year have been one, it's been their first major win and both of the women have had the initials MS. And if there's somebody that can keep that streak going, it's Madeline Saxstrom. She's, you know, if we could make it three in a row with, with MS winners this week, that would be pretty cool. I can't think there would be any other time where we had the same initials winning three majors in a row. So that was my last dumb storyline.

God, that's so good. Big. Hey, I'm excited. You know, we're that's only because Maddie's Xeric's not in the field. I was trying to think of other MS golfers out there. Madeline's the only one in the field that fits it. We're, the three of us are going to be back on Wednesday, of course, for happy hour. We'll give you our final picks predictions there. But man, Biggie, what do we got coming up next? Yeah, so this is Gil. I mean, Gil's the man TC said he's like the most chill dude. He's like the busiest guy in the world, but still took time out of his week. We talked to him when he was at Oakmont. He was he was actually in the RV for the

superintendent, which was kind of funny. Yeah, he's just going to talk about Fields Ranch and what went into it, some of the holes to look out for, how he thinks it could be set up, how it could play for the women this week, and just generally just vibes guy. So I hope everybody enjoys that interview with Gil. Come back Wednesday, TC, before we get out. What do you have?

I got one more thing. I want NBC to let Mel Reed cook Yes week. Oh, yeah, please let Mel Reed cook. Yeah, I know she's on the live from I don't know if they're doing live from this week I imagine they are but let her get her on the main broadcast and let her let her show off I think she's in the future of that of that booth Amen. Well, yeah guys guys, without further ado, here is Gil Hance. All right. Welcome to the show, Mr. Gil Hance. He is, of course, the designer of Fields Ranch East, where the KPMG Women's PGA Championship will be this week. And what better person to talk about

the course and what went into the design. And Gil would love to hear how you think it will play this week for the women. But first of all, thank you for joining. I can report for everybody watching. You are, why don't you tell the people where you are right now? Thanks for having me on guys. I am literally, I'm in the RV of Mike McCormick, the golf course superintendent at Oakmont. So it's one of these cool traditions that just started up

that provided an RV and move it around for the superintendents because them going home, they're here for ungodly hours and at least gives them a chance to maybe go get a nap somewhere in between and sleep. But yeah, so it's a place with consistent Wi-Fi and a little bit quieter than the maintenance compound. Well, before we fired it up, we're talking about how busy this week is for you. We're, of course, courting during the US Open Week. So, Oakmont, you're a huge part of that. But

we're here talking about the Women's KPMG Championship held for the first time at Omni PGA Frisco, the Fields Ranch East course, which you designed. And this is a big property. And I'm kind of, I'm really excited to pick your brain on it because it's an old ranch that goes back a lot of years. Obviously, the Fields name is tied to it. Then you had that got passed over to another great Texas family and the Hunt family. If you could get us back to where did your involvement start? When did this project kind of come along? Yeah, I mean, I lose track of time. I always say, you know, it was five years ago. I mean, it was eight years ago and on and on. You know, it was after the Olympics. It was kind of late

teens, 2000s. Mark Harrison, who's the director of the North Texas PGA really had this concept of how can we put together this amazing center hub of golf. And Frisco is a growing community and really had invested a lot in sports. A lot of minor league teams and major league teams have their training facilities there. And so they started to look around and they invited I think four or five architects to study the site. You're right, it's a big ranch. There's a lot of room, a lot of space. And we were one of those groups and we all competed to kind of come up with a general land plan

and how this whole thing could come together and we were fortunate that we got selected. At the time we were selected to do all 36 and we just listened, we're not built for that. We just don't have the bandwidth to do 36 holes at a time. We were delighted that they selected Bo Welling and his team to do the west course so the footprint and the scheme the design where the clubhouse it all sort of originated from our design but then we started working really closely with Bo and the team from the PGA to figure out how we could comm-mingle both golf courses and get them to work. And while it's a big site it was limited in a lot of ways

because you got Panther Creek running through the middle of it so you had a lot of floodplain you had a lot it was a huge engineering situation because as you both know it'll rain in Texas certainly and when major championship season in May and June. We had to figure out ways to move water off the golf course, move it off the property. Then the other big piece of the puzzle was what happens outside the rooms. You're building a site that's ultimately going to host major championships. Kerry Hague and the PGA team were instrumental in trying to figure out spaces for where they could put in hospitality, infrastructure, et cetera.

So we tend to like to do things on a little bit smaller scale, but this was just too good and too great an opportunity to pass up on. So Jim and I figured, all right, well, all this infrastructure and all this planning are a necessary evil to get a golf course that, you course that will host major championships. And the first of those is, is this week, but, uh, I am reading on the website fields ranch will host 26 tournaments within the first 12 years of its opening. Of course, uh, besides this year's KPMG women's PGA, I believe it comes back here in 2031.

And then you have the men, their first shot at the Fields Ranch East course will be 2027 and then scheduled again 2034. I guess, Gil, my question is, was there pressure? How was the process like when you know a course needs to rise to like the highest championship level of professional golf, how does that differ from other projects? And did that create extra pressure for you guys?

Yeah, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't extra pressure. And I think that Jim and I looked at it as an opportunity to do the best. I mean, we had the opportunity at the Olympics in the Rio course, you know, but that was just a sort of one-off championship. And honestly, if the scores were low, it was a good exhibition for dollars. So we weren't really too concerned about the difficulty quotient. I had a friend who played at Fields Ranch East, and he said, now I know what it looks like when Gil and Jim tried to build something hard.

It can be pretty challenging. So yes, did we try to amp up the difficulty and try to get it to a place where it's going to challenge the best golfers in the world? 100%. We also understand that it's a resort course. I think people who come there and play, they have the understanding that there are going to be major championships here, so they'd be more surprised if it was easy than they are surprised by maybe how challenging it is. And I think what we did, and I'm really excited to see how Kerry is going to set it up for

the KPMG this week, is the grass selection is all the same, right? The greens are different grass, but through the fairways, it's all the same type of Bermuda. So, Kerry could narrow the fairways if he wanted to, he could expand them, you know, and we did have the senior PGA there, so it's- That's right. That's right. Yes.

And I think that was a really good learning curve for Kerry as to how can he set up a golf course, because the first time out, golf course was brand new. I think he was appropriately conservative in the setup. I think he's learning more and more about the golf course. So it's a great setting for championships. But he can move the fairways out. Let's say he wants to make them a little bit wider for the KPMG.

And then he can bring them in for the PGA championship in 27. So within the design, there's flexibility that might be more indicative of what Jim and I believe as far as wider corridors and playability. So for the resort guests it can play a little bit wider but for a championship we can crank down and make it play a little bit narrower. So I think that flexibility is going to be key to carry in the setup. So I think that flexibility is going to be key to carry in the setup. From the tips to the back hole locations, I mean, it can stretch like 8,000 yards. It's one of those things where if the wind blows, I mean, it'll be a super, super challenging test.

I'm excited to see where they set it up for the women this week. But I think that flexibility is a key aspect of what we're trying to create so that it can play differently for whatever the requirements of the particular championship are. Yeah, you talk about stretching it out, you know, you got those ribbon t-boxes there. So you can move every single hole back basically as far as you want it. You mentioned the KitchenAid there as a playoff. This was in 2023, Steve Stricker won, beat out Podrick there at 18 under. But I think, you know, if you look at kind of setup wise,

distance wise, I think we're probably gonna be pretty similar. How they set up the KPMG, maybe a couple hundred yards less than that. But what did you guys kind of learn from that? Setup, pin positions, kind of how it's going to flow. I mean, there has to be a ton of lessons learned that not only you, but the championship committee was able to pick up from it.

Yeah, and I think absolutely, 100% we learned some things. I think Kerry has that arsenal now to go forward with from a setup standpoint and whole location. We haven't discussed whole locations. I'll be there next week, so I'm excited to go around with from a setup standpoint and whole locations. We haven't discussed whole locations. I'll be there next week, so I'm excited to go around with him and look at what they've determined and how they're ultimately going to set it up. I think one of the lessons was Green Speeds, as I said, it can be a particularly windy site. He was, as I said, appropriately conservative with whole locations and not really trying

to push things. We know that he has in his back pocket the ability to put some whole locations in some challenging areas. I mean, Jim and I are, obviously we've been fortunate to work on a lot of great old golf courses, so our green complexes tend to skew towards what you'd see on an older golf course. We're comfortable with all locations at 3%. And so Kerry has those in his back pocket if he wants to push things a little bit further. And I'm expecting we won't see a lot of that this week.

I'm expecting we're going to see more of that in 27. I think from a T perspective, you know, there was some grumbling about how they, how unlevel they were and a few things. And being a senior male golfer I know we get a little crankier so I'm hoping we don't get as much crankiness this week when it when it comes to the tees we've actually gone in and leveled them out a little bit more so hopefully that'll all work out and yeah so I think in the the fairway widths and the whole locations and green speeds, I think we learned a ton

from when the seniors were there. And I'm fully expecting that Kerry's going to utilize that for the setup this week. Gail, you mentioned you do a lot of work on old golf courses, Oakmont being one of them. Did the Fields Ranch property and maybe the finished product, does it remind you of anything or have people told you like, hey, this kind of is reminiscent of this property? For people that haven't seen it, haven't played it, I'm just curious, any comparables that you might hold? Yeah, I know internally, we really,

we just come off redoing Southern Hills. And so we were clearly inspired by Maxwell and his work. Obviously he was from that region. His best work is in that region. So I don't think we had been retained to do Colonial yet. It would have probably been just after we finished Fields Ranch. So Maxwell, 100% inspired from the how, like I mentioned before, the Panther Creek running

through it, we had to elevate holes 10, 11, 12, and then holes 1 and 9 to get them up out of the floodplain. And so we had a lot of work to do in those areas to try to raise those holes and then still make them feel as if they could have naturally existed in that elevated state. So I think as we looked at some of the transitions that Maxwell had created at Southern Hills for into the creeks and into the surrounding areas, we really felt like that was a good template for us to use. And then through revegetation and maturity, it's a golf course. You always hope that your golf course is mature nicely, and I think Fields Ranch is maturing

wonderfully. I mean, the tree growth and the native growth has really come on. So I think you're going to have a feeling of Southern Hills from a features perspective standpoint. The landscape, I think it just feels like North Texas. And I don't know that there's anything else in North Texas that you would point to to say, yeah, that's the key. Outside of, of course, could possibly be one of the best

builds in North Texas in the last 20 years, which is the little nine at circle T, which you also did. But yeah, that the public can see. There's a lot of stories around, you know, I live in Texas, in North Texas now, I'm very familiar with the site. And I've heard you speak on it a couple of times, but you talk about building it up to protect Panther Creek

and provide, you know, you have this 100 year floodplain and people are gonna recognize this because there's massive, really cool looking walking bridges and cart bridges and everything. And you mentioned the engineering aspect of it, which is a cool challenge. But you gotta pull some fill dirt from somewhere to be able to reinforce those banks.

So what, was there bartering going on between you and Bo from both sides of the site? Or how did that work out? I'll save this because I know Bo will take it in the right vein because we're good friends and I truly respect his professionalism. No, there was no bartering. We basically told Bo what he was gonna do.

We need that dirt. Yeah, we need that dirt, bring it over here. No, we've got along great. You know, what we did was we created these wetland areas. So you'll see a lot of big low areas between 10, 11, across the way to 14 that were just scooped out. And so it provided opportunities for us to create a really nice habitat, which they've grown in. And it's hard to tell that we even created them, which they've grown in and it's hard to tell that we even created them, get enough dirt to build what we needed to build and then also provide storage when

it floods. So when the when Panther Creek floods it can now overflow into these man-made wetlands, get stored there, slow it all down and then ultimately as the creek goes down the water can filter back into the creek. So it was a pretty creative way of trying to solve an issue of needing fill dirt, needing to retain water, store it on site, and I think you guys can be the judge of it, you know, create a believable wetland landscape that makes it feel like it just enhances the low in relation to the high of the golf holes.

So that was something I think we came up with and we worked really hard with Bo on trying to make sure everything balanced out. But all kidding aside, if it really floods, the west course is where the water sits. So it takes a lot of water occasionally. As we look at the course, I'm fascinated by the finishing stretch, Gil. Really starting with 15 is a short par four, 16 is kind of a longer par four, a bit downhill off the tee.

And then you have the shortest par three on the course, number 17, and then it'll wrap up with a par five 18th. Talk to me about that finishing stretch, the decision, I guess, you know, having a short four there near the end, I think that's wonderful in a championship setting. Were those kind of the thoughts in your head around that stretch?

And I guess my other question, if you don't mind, what are some other maybe of your favorite holes or facets of the golf course that you would point people towards? Sure, yeah I think Jim and I have always been big believers that we when we're watching championship golf we like to see positive things happen in the finish to determine results versus negative things. And this is basically just looking at when you're watching Quail Hollow, it was a different mindset and it's not one's not right, one's not wrong, but it was basically once they got through 15, it was like, all right, nobody's making a charge on the last three.

It's like people are going backwards or they're holding their position and if they're holding their position they're actually going forward. Jim and I really believe we'd like to see guys make Eagles, make birdies, really go get it and have the opportunity to kind of come back and we think that's more exciting. I think that also, we're big believers in, you design golf courses ultimately for match play. I know this isn't a match play format here, but the best golf is when guys win holes with a birdie. My birdie beats your par versus my bogey beats your double bogey.

So I think we set that up intentionally that hopefully good things can happen. But if you're not paying attention, those holes will bite you. And so I think it was definitely intentional for us to kind of have that set up where positive things can happen. Now because we had some issues and everybody knows this, the resort expanded a little bit further just as it was necessary, of pushed bumped up into 10t 10t got a little closer to 18 green so from a hospitality standpoint surrounding 18 green may not work so I know there's a lot of conversations I believe they've made the decision to the finishing hole will be 9 oh so they're

going ahead and switch that over for this championship okay play through 17're going to play through 17 and then get them over to nine. And from a hospitality perspective, you're going to finish on nine. I think there are currently a lot of conversations about whether they're going to flip the nines for the PGA championship, which we don't love the, I, we thought 18 would be a really cool finishing hole, but we don't love, we're not totally opposed to the finishing sequence on the front nine because you get sevens a short par four. Yeah.

Eight's a cool run. Kind of the same run. Yeah, it's a similar run. So we talked a lot about that sort of middle stretch, you know, when you get 12, 13, 14 is a par five. So, you know, you kind of holding on, same thing on. Same thing when you get to 5, 6, you're trying to hold on to those holes and then you get actually to make a run. But I think maybe my favorite stretch on the golf course is 2, 3, and 4, and 5.

The golf course is kind of divided into the artificial holes, which would be number one to start, and number nine to finish, number eight. And then you get these really nice, beautiful landscapes on two, three, four, five, six. Six is a little bit flattish. And then same thing on the back nine. 13 is a beautiful natural hole, 14's great natural, 15's natural, 16's natural.

Then you get to the manufactured hole. So there's this rhythm to the design, which in the way the holes were created that also matches the way we'd love to see them play. So I think that that natural stretch of 2, 3, 4, 5 is really as good as 13, 14, 15. So if they do wind up switching them around we're in pretty good shape, but I think when you get two green three tee I Love that setting. I mean it really from you get a really nice elevation Originally there was a lot of conversation about that green not being able to be that high up

But the PGA said listen take some space that they wanted for hospitality move the green and make golf course better. So we're really happy that they decided to let us do that. So those, I think will be the stretches that, I wouldn't say I'm most proud of, we're proud of all 18, but I think if you were gonna watch golf two, three, four, five, and then, you know, 13, 14, 15, 16, would be the more natural holes. Yeah, it's a beautiful spot up there. You can see basically the whole property all the way around.

It's funny, we're talking a lot about the way that these, you know, you routed the holes and how they're gonna set up, but talk to us kind of about the thought process because most original designs probably start with members, but this one, you're mixing a ton of people that are involved, not just from, you know, investment in the property, but you're thinking of resort play, you're thinking of men that are involved, not just from, you know, investment in the property,

but you're thinking of resort play, you're thinking of men's major championship, you're thinking of women's major championship. The list goes on and on. You have to be able to check like every single block and that can't be an easy task for you and the team. No, it's not. But it's, you know, the flexibility piece, I think ultimately where the golf course can be more

of a chameleon. It can change its colors and stripes based on what you need to do. Now that creates some agronomic headaches for the maintenance. For them to do that I think is really going to be, because there's a major championship every other year, I don't think they're going to be in a situation where they're going to mow the fairways in and then mow them out. And so there's some maintenance limitations to how much flexibility we have, but it is baked into the design.

And interestingly, we had to think about where do you get... It was a similar exercise that we had in Rio where, if we're going to bring the fairways in, we don't want to bring them in in a way that all of a sudden the bunkers are stuck way out in the rough. So we had to design it almost where there was a side of the golf hole where the fairway would stay in touch with the bunkers and we'd bring it in from the other side. And then we had to design it where the landing area for the women is gonna be further down

because we're asking them to hit a similar shot into place and we have to create bunkers that are gonna challenge them and how do those bunkers impact, maybe they impact Rory and Bryson in the design when they have it for the men's BPA. So then we've got to swing the fairway out to capture those bunkers. So there was a lot of thought process

about placement of features and grassing lines as they relate to the different setup options that Kerry's gonna have and we don't normally have to think in those terms. You know I don't pat myself on the back or ourselves on the back too much but I think you know we were able to negotiate a lot of those situations where, depending on how they maintained it, how they cut it, the hazards are still gonna be relevant for no matter who's playing it. Yeah. What would be,

this is maybe a dumb question, but as the champion, That's a dumb question. For the championship next week, in your mind, what's an ideal winning number for the women? Like what do you think? You know, it's not obviously going to be an over par final score. I'm guessing you probably don't want it to be 20 under par. Are you kind of looking at that like eight under?

Is that the sweet spot or do you have something like that in mind? Honestly, I don't because it's so variable. I mean if the wind blows for four days straight I mean it's probably gonna be two or three under. If the wind lays down and I think the setup we would love to see sort of anywhere between eight and twelve you know I think that's a legitimate test of golf over four days and it allows ... The last thing we want to do is make anybody look bad and we want to make sure that we provide an appropriate test of golf. I haven't looked at the last KPMG scores to get a sense or a range of where it might be, but we definitely want to see these women display their skills and they certainly have plenty of them.

So I don't, I can't imagine Kerry's gonna try and set it up where winning score is really gonna be challenging. But the wind is the wild card. Cody, can you do anything about the wind? Make sure it's up a little bit next week. No, I mean, I think it's prime time, you know, late afternoon thunderstorm season here in North Texas.

So you'll get a lot of that and a lot of heat. So we'll see how the players fight that late June heat, but I'm excited. And I know the golf course, I mean, it should be fiery for them. So PGA championship, it's very mixed. You know, it's usually right about five to nine under. The highest, or the lowest, excuse me,

Nelly won at Atlanta Athletic in 19 under. So there is a big stretch, but of course, the course and the setup plays so much into that. I mean, we talked about Sahale where they had it last year, Randy, how wet and just lush grass and everything, but it was some length there. Amy Yang won at seven-under, so it's not that big of a stretch.

And I think as the home course for these governing bodies, I think they want it to be a comfortable golf course. The last thing you would want to do is create a situation where you've got players thinking, oh, we've got to go back there. And I don't think, and know, and this is not secret. I mean, clubs wanna be very protective. They're gonna gain a sense of pride from the score

at their club being difficult. There's none of that at PGA Frisco. I think we just wanna see really good golf played on championship agronomic conditions and the score falls where the score falls. Yeah, we talk about really good golf, but who, I mean, thinking back on it, I don't know if you've had this thought while routing and going through the design process and then having a couple of years now to look back on it, but who do you think, you know, Fields Rants East favors? I mean, is it a ball strikers course? Is it a, you know, you have wide fairways at times,

but you're right, you did a tremendous job with bunkering and some of these cross hazards that kind of throw you off deceptively. Is there a, you know, a favorite? If we're looking at strokes gained, who do you think kind of the course sets up for most? Oh, I don't even know what that means, Strokes. Whoever gets their ball in the hole the lowest amount.

I think if it's, the course is plenty wide. So I think, you know, and I don't know what the yardage is that he's going to ultimately settle on, but I don't think it's a bomber's course. But I don't think you have to drive the ball perfectly. I think you will score better if you drive it to the proper side of the fairway because I think angles are definitely relevant on this golf course. I think it's more of a ball start. I think it's more of a second shot golf course.

I think getting yourself in position on these greens, if the greens are slick, you can be in some bad spots on them. So I think you want to be able to make sure you stay below the hole and that you, you know, you give yourself reasonable looks. And, you know, we're not shy about creating bunkers and hazards around the sides of greens. So if you really are getting to a point where you're missing greens, I think you're, you know,

you're going to struggle to score from that position. So if I had to guess, I would say it's, you know, somebody who's pretty good with their second shot game. That tight Bermuda big. And he got Bermuda greens, which is unheard of in North Texas, all right? Yeah. I'm sure Roger Meyer and the team will have the place in great condition.

I know they always gear up for these things. And yeah, and you're right, there's a lot of options, right? I mean, some holes you're just gonna be in the rough and bunkers off the green. Some holes, you're going to have plenty of chipping areas. Um, it's not a predictable outcome on every single hole. If you miss the green and we're excited about that, I think it gives, you know, short game player a chance to shine and show off different skills around the

golf course. Fantastic. Gil, we, I, I can't wait to watch the women navigate the course for four rounds this week, and just want to say thank you so much for taking the time. I know super busy week for you. Last question on the way out, what's the best concert you've seen recently? I went to the Spirit, surprise, surprise. The surprise is I only went to one show this year, this spring. I made quite a few last summer. So you know me. I mean, that's, it's either, I'm only going to see Dead and Company or Dave Matthews seems like right now, but Dead and Company sounds so good right now. I hope they

keep, I know they're playing. I'll be in San Francisco for three days in August for that. And I'm hopeful they decide they want to get back together in Las Vegas in the fall. But yeah, it's fun to watch. It's fun to watch. Awesome. Well, thank you for the time and enjoy this week at Oakmont and certainly next week or as people are listening this week down in Texas at Fields Ranch. Guys always great to be with you.

Thanks. Thanks for talking about Fields Ranch. It's it's it'll be nice to it's going to start ramping up a lot of the discussion about it. We're excited for it.