No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1055: Ryder Cup Roundtable

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

Our Ryder Cup Roundtable foursome has assembled again as Soly and Kyle Porter spar with TC and Jamie Weir.  With just a little over six weeks to go we get a vibes check from both sides of the pond, the latest in the Keegan playing-captain saga, and review other likely and unlikely captains picks for both teams. Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation:⁠ ⁠⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠⁠⁠ Support our Sponsors: ⁠BMW Rhoback⁠ ⁠FanDuel.com/nlu⁠ If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club today. Yeah, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Better than most! Expect anything different? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast, August edition of the Ryder Cup roundtable.

So you know my guy T.C. is here. Hello, Mr. T.C. Hey, Sally. I'm chomper at the bit. I've been deep in the research minds almost. It's been good. It's been three months since we've done this. And we know we got to kind of touch on it on the weekly pod. But we haven't had a chance to just dump it all, debrief it all. We made him put a full shirt on because he's calling in from holiday, as they would call it across the pond. Mr. Jamie Weir, hello, Jamie. Good afternoon from Sunny Cornwall to you all, yeah. Just reveling in the afterglow of yet another European victory

in the European tour last night from one of our old stalwarts. You know, all's looking rosy for Luke Donald's team. PGA tour. PGA tour, not European tour, which also doesn't exist. Did I just say that? I'm a European tour. My head's all over the shop. I'll switch my brain on in a second.

Okay. I would say, yeah, congrats on that. That was the first European wins since. 12 Americans had last one, actually, since the last European one on the PGA tour. So that was good to kind of balance the scales a little bit ahead of today. Mr. Kyle Porter's here, of course, helping me wave the American flag. Yeah, and of course, condolences to T.C. for another Fleetwood L Evergreen statement at this point. We can probably replay that over the next couple weeks as well.

But, yeah, you know, we're doing Europe first, Sully. And I think these guys think it's because they're more solidified. and our problem is we just have too many good options. And we're going to, we'll get to that second and probably take more time to delve into all the depth of the U.S. This Rider Cup update is, of course, brought to you by our friends at BMW. They're not only the official vehicle of no laying up, but also a worldwide partner of the 2025 Rider Cup.

We are greatly looking forward to spending some time with them on site at Beth Page later this year to experience the ultimate team competition. T.C. is going up to the BMW Championship as well this week. So we're recording this early on a Monday morning. We are fresh off the Justin Rose triumph over J.J. Redder Cup stalwart J.J. Spahn, which has emerged now. I'll start with you, Jamie. How are you feeling about your team at this point?

I know the answer to this. You have a perma smirk on your face whenever we do these podcasts. So how are you feeling? Smirk, it seems a bit unfair. Incredibly confident. That's not being bullish. I just think that it's a very settled team. we'll get into what I think the team's going to be

but I don't think there's much change from Rome a couple of years ago. Everybody knows their roles. There's ready made, tested, proven pairings in there. We've got a captain who's been at the helm for three and a half years, a backroom team who know the players really well. There's a real bond between

everybody. Crucially, we know that our captain isn't going to be playing on the team and it's going to be 100% focused on captaining the team. And I just think it's the best set up team for Europe to on U.S. soil since 2004. I think it's looking really good

and there's still a lot can change between now and September, but I'm sure Luke couldn't be happy with how things are going at the moment. TC, I'm assuming you feel similarly. I do, yeah. I was almost a little bit surprised when I was going through it this morning

and going deep. And I'm like, man, you really have to go that far off the top 12 or 13 or 14 to really get, figure out who's on there. It should be a pretty similar team. We've got Jamie down on holiday in Cornwall doing some character, some background checks on Harry Hall just as a fail safe. But no, I think it's, you know, like it seems like continuity is definitely the theme.

And, you know, I would assume that we've got the Danish Gulf Open this week, national open over there a lot of you know a lot of those guys that are probably on the bubble outside looking in are playing in that you've got some guys you know like rye didn't make it to to bmw which was unfortunate and then you've got uh and then i'm fascinated to see kind of you know if if things were to percolate beyond that you've got british masters the week after that and then i think they make they make the the six captains picks uh at that point so British Masters of BDE or no? TBD.

I don't even know where it is this year. Yeah. It's at the Belfry. It's at the Belfry. Jamie, I mean, not the greatest thing. The great man, Sevy, you know, did some great things at the belfry, though. Jamie, when you say it's the most, I think you said, like, the European team that's the best set up to win the, the, the, the writer cup in America since 2004, is that because of the European side or because of the, because of how. you view the American side.

It's your classic bit of both answer. I just think that because of how the continuity that Tron alludes to, I just think that's one big reason. And I just think there are still so many question marks over the US side. So I think it's a little bit of both is the most boring answer, I'm afraid.

Porter, listen, I've printed off the list of the strokes gained right here. And it says we got the advantage. So I think we got this locked up, right? I mean, I think there's nothing left to figure out at this point. match play is the same as stroke play and I'm I'm feeling quite confident but you know I I can't remember if I've had this approach in prior writer cups and had this come back to bite me but I'm just feeling great about the US team right now when I look at the numbers I've got I've got

a lot of things I need to get off my chest today um the first is people can lose me with like trying to debate strokes gained on Twitter like I'm good like you can go read about it like I'm not going to go back and forth with like how all that works I think I do think sally There's such a difference, and I think you've been big on this, and I know a lot of people have talked about it over the years, but there's such a difference between a Home Rider Cup and in a Way Rider Cup for the U.S. I mean, it's just so stark. And since 2008, the U.S. has been awesome at home, like awesome, really good. 2012 was such a freak anomaly, like whatever. I think the way that we discussed, though, should just be very different. And even the way

they put the team together should be different. So I think that's one starting point for me is just the way that we talk about and discuss and put teams together home and away should should just very greatly, I think, for the U.S. Just looking at it briefly, they like day one, 2008, they were up big. They, Europe technically won day two in 2008, but day three, the U.S. won big time. Day one and day two at Medina. They obviously, the U.S. obviously dominated that.

Europe flipped that with one of the most dominant Sundays ever that I think. truly has trickled down to the way we talk about this event to this day. Like, I think if the U.S. just closes the deal on that one, which they did not, I think the whole, the whole Ryder Cup gets framed really differently. In 2016, the U.S. went up 5'3, day one. They took a nine and a half, six and a half leading to Sunday singles, and they also won Sunday singles. And then I don't need to remind you what happened at Whistling Straits.

They won by the largest margin in the history of the Modern Rider Cup. Obviously won all three days of that one. So to your point, there's a lot to support. support that now does that mean it's going to happen forever i i i don't feel that um the odds say this is a very close call the mass of this is a close call uh if i look at a bunch of stuff i can get myself really hyped up on like hey like the middle tier like u.s has a massive advantage you know but some of those names of the guys that haven't played great golf are like justin rose and Shane lowry i know justin rose just one but like the numbers do not like him

right now and i think it's very safe to say throw the numbers out when those those guys in particular get to a rider cup like i've just seen it too many times with a stenson or a rose or a garcia or a polter or any of these guys just to say like if they're not in the best form that they can't show up and play great golf at a rider cop i think luke donald's leadership is a major x factor in all of this i think he can and has shown an ability to get a ton out of the players on his team set them up for success uh edwardo molanari like i remember listen he came on the pod and after they one took a massive victory lap if I may say and uh it spelled out the the formula and like it's like yeah it makes perfect sense like I totally see how this team can overachieve arrogant or

no no no no no I didn't think I'm joking but he was just like laid like some of that stuff I would have kept a little closer to the chest of exactly how they do things but he wasn't arrogant that's not what I'm saying I'm saying solid when you say that the team rose the numbers don't like yeah I was curious on that as well when you just finished six at the Scottish open 16th be open and just won on the FedEx Cup playoffs? What do the numbers not like about his last three finishes? He just won, but he's been the 20th best European over the last three months.

He's the 28th best predicted skill per day to go. I mean, that's a massively small sample size. I'd have to, I'd have to rerun that, but it has not been trending. The Ryder Cup is a small sample. It is, but like my point, point still stands, the numbers don't like him to this point.

Like, they absolutely do not. He had a great spring, obviously at the Masters, but he had a, the middle of the year. was not very kind to Justin Rose. Obviously, he just won. Does that mean you could throw everything out? Probably. Maybe.

I don't know that. But I think he was a question mark coming into the fall, kind of coming into this late period prior to yesterday. But again, yeah. I think one of the things, speaking of Rose and like the small sample size, one of the things that makes all of this so interesting to talk about and debate. And I think it's the most, I think it's the most interesting like event like this to talk about. because it doesn't really happen elsewhere.

Like baseball, it doesn't happen. Basketball, you've got the Olympic team. But that's kind of like, whatever, we're going to win all the games anyway. Like, this is such a unique thing. And I think that everybody has a different kind of determinant for what they think should be looked at to put a player on the team, right? Some people say, like, oh, well, it should be strokes handed over three months. It should be strokes hand over six months.

It should be, how many times did you get? getting into contention in the five months leading, like there's just so many different ways to look at it, which I think makes for, it's why it's my favorite thing to talk about because there's no real right answer, I don't think, when it comes to some of those things.

But I'm just curious about what you guys are, maybe Jamie starting with you, what you're looking at when you kind of look at filling out the bottom of the roster. Is it how guys have played over the month leading in? Is it six months? Is it three months? Like, what's your factor there?

Well, I think the, one thing you also didn't mention is just I know you solely in particular probably sort of laugh at this but it's just got instinct as well you know how the guys think that they're going to perform under under the pressure of being in an atmosphere which is going to be like

unlike anything a lot of them have experienced before because Bethpage is going to be different gravy to what they've experienced in the past it is not going to be like Rome it is not even going to be like Whistling Straits was it's going to be something completely unique how can they handle it under that most intensive pressures

I think you look at that, you look at how they've been playing as well, of course. Dodo, as Sully and Toronto alluded to, will have the numbers in front of them, the data that suggest who's going to perform best on that golf course as well, who pairs best with whom. So there are a lot of things that go into the melting pot,

but if we wanted me to get into what I think the team will be now, do you want to do that now, Sully, or do you want to talk around it a bit more? Sure, I'm just going to do a little bit of framing. Yeah, I was going to say, set up some numbers and standings and kind of we've mentioned that there but i i think it gets pretty easy for europe until you get to the very final spot which you guys can can correct me on that but kyle to your question for me i think it's like you can slice and dice the numbers however

you want because yeah if you look at the six months rose had a a crappy stretch there really from you know kind of the the backside of masters i think he kind of flew pretty close to the sun there and probably had to had to recover there but you know some health stuff like they Yeah, I think he was heard at Truest, WD there, and then didn't play a while at the PGA the next week, didn't play great at Memorial, played fine at Canada, and then obviously missed a cut at U.S. Open.

But, like... He missed the cut of Canada, too. There is... Yeah, so when it comes to Justin Rose... I think, you know, up until as recently as two or three weeks ago, I think Justin Rose still was a bit of a question mark, which is why Luke hasn't named his final assistant captain

up to this point. I think he was just trying to see what Justin Rose would do over the summer. Now, he's had a great summer. I did well at Scotland at the Open and obviously has now just won as well, which has cemented his place in the team. He's not qualified for the team.

He doesn't need a pick anymore. But I think that's why he was giving himself a bit of time because had Justin carried on in a similar vein that he did in sort of May, June time, then he would have been an assistant captain. He's going to be in the team. I know for a fact that a lot of the senior players

in the team wanted him on the team as a player. so that now answers one of the big questions that Luke would have had but I think I mean no matter what you think of Justin Rosen people will have their opinion some people might think there's something a bit insincere about them

that's hard to root for you cannot question the guy when the pressure is at its most intense he just performs he is absolutely sensational those final six holes yesterday and then in the playoff just he didn't he barely missed a single shot got lucky with one of his drives

but just you know he just performs when the pressure is that it's most intense and that's what you want on your team it seems to be getting better and better under pressure like he's yeah he's taking that experience

yeah 100% and honing it and fine tuning it and like it's just it feels like everything is every shot that he hit like there wasn't a wasted motion the routine is on point like he just wants to be in the cauldron

and and even you know it just I mean yeah like it's you know like he played well even first half of the year. He played well at Pebble or at Arnold Palmer and, or winning two and a half years ago, almost salvage

his career, like winning at Pebble, it was, you know, like his back was up against the wall and he was... His entire career has been proving people wrong, I think, and just getting the very most out of his God-given talent. He works his absolute socks off and went out before Memphis

and had like a sort of two-week training camp in the States just to get himself ready for the FedEx Cup playoffs. Like, guy just continues to grind away and eke out every possible bit of advantage he has just to get his game better and better and better. I've got nothing but praise for him and he is going to be a huge part of that team. All right, we can't fluff all 12 guys like this. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

It's proven me wrong, though, like, time and again. And I think I think he deserves a lot of credit in that, like, he would have been candidate number one to go to live at that point in his career of. take a big, big, big bag of money to go to live and, and he didn't, right? Like, I think the intangible stuff in the Ryder Cup, it means something to him. And you know he's going to show up and build his whole fall around. You know what I can say about Rose is like, do I think he'll be the best player for Team Europe in the Ryder Cup?

No, I do not. Do I think he will give the exact amount of effort and skill and get the ball in the hole to win a match one up on the 18th green to put a point on the board for Team Europe and a crucial spot absolutely feel like he will like absolutely he's not going to be you not think that his sheer presence in the team room i think gives an advantage to the other 11 guys as well to have somebody that experienced a major champion a guy who continues to perform when the pressure is at his most attention yeah it's all with macadilly yeah i mean i i will i will i'll push back on you believing that i might scoff at what you're saying about how do you handle the cauldron

that's everything to me that's all i mean say like yeah pick your 12 guys you think you're going to perform the best in this very different environment. Yeah, yeah. You know, I said this a million times, like the strokes game frames the conversation where I think people can get lost on a lot of this stuff is like, Andrew Novak playing way better than Speeth, right? He got to put him on the team, speeds out. It's like, well, let's like at least look at that.

He's not beating him on the golf course nearly as much as you might think. So that's kind of the framing device for all that to say, I don't know. I guess I've been through it enough times to know, like, you know, I've obsessed over the numbers. U.S. has a small advantage on paper as a right now. I know as soon as you go to put a tea in the ground for that opening session that goes out. Like, it just doesn't matter. There's just enough variance in all.

You want to do all the things you can to put the odds in your favor. I still strongly believe in that, but it is very, very, very far from guaranteeing what is going to happen once it starts. And, Sally, just, you know, some of the Novak stuff is just to wind you up. But, like, you can look at the way that his finishes have gone, too, of like, even his good finishes. He hasn't played great in the final round. Right? And does that suggest that he's going to be comfortable in a, you know, like he may want the ball, but with adrenaline and all of that, even if you, if you want to play under pressure, there's, there's physiological reactions.

And it's a different question, like doing that for Team USA or for Team Europe, where I feel incredibly confident at Team Europe's ability to harvest an environment where somebody can stand up and feel 10 feet tall in that scenario versus shit themselves. And I don't feel as confident on the U.S. side that they're kind of. harvesting that environment and so maybe that matters on home soil maybe it doesn't but we'll see anyways framing the uh the point standings when it comes to team europe top six are rory rose fleetwood mackinty hatton and straca uh i think regardless of how it plays out of the next several weeks i think those six are clearly going to be on the team the next six in the standings are lowry rasmus hoygard ludwig victor hovlin mike wallace and matt fitzpatrick and then the next several from there on are Thomas Dietrich, Aaron Ryd, Jordan, Norgaard, John Perry,

Georgian, Olison, Harry Hall, Marco Pinge, Rasmus, Nirgaard, Peterson, and John Romp, who you can obviously slate on the team as well. So I think it's easy to say, Rory, Rose, Fleetwood, McIntyre, Haddnstraka, that's six. Lowry makes seven, Ludwig makes eight, Hovlin makes nine, Fitz makes 10, ROM makes 11. I think there's almost nothing that can happen in the next month besides injury that would change any of that, do the European fellows nod and agree with that?

Tanner locked for me. I think Fitz is all but a lock. He's playing really well. But I do think he sat out, like he only played two sessions in Rome. His Ryder Cup record prior to Rome wasn't great. Played three sessions. Okay.

He didn't play great either. Both afternoon sessions with Rory. Okay. Yeah. And then obviously the Saturday afternoon session was when it all. got a bit frosty yeah and then lost you know lost singles to max as well and and doesn't have a great rider cup record i think he's he's turned it on he's playing really good golf he's on my team but it's one of those things of i don't think he's a lock quite yeah like he would be close to you know

like he's on the team today and if he plays reasonably well the next couple weeks i think he's on but and then yeah 12 is like that's where you know you've got rasmus kind of falling out the bottom of the funnel a little bit here uh both the hoigard twins falling at the bottom of the funnel you know between detrie wallis rye nor like norgaard hasn't hasn't played at all well enough or or just enough uh same with rasmus near guard peterson i don't have detri on can i give you just a little bit of uh of of rankings again as we're trying to figure out the last spot just who has played the best golf over the last six and three months so over the last six months here's how team europe goes goes Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Straka, Ludwig, Hovlin, Fitz, Rye, Hall, Rasmus, Nirgaard, Peterson, Robert McIntyre, Alex Noren, Shane Lowry, Therl Hatton, Justin Rose, Nikolai Hoygard.

That's the top 16 guys over the last six months. Over the last three months, it goes Tommy, Rom, Fitz, Rory, Harry Hall's been the fifth best European over the last three months. Sepp Straka, Nikolai Hoygard, Robert McIntyre, Victor Hovlin, Aaron Rye, Ludwig, Matt Wallace, Christopher Rytan, Tyrell Haddon, Norin, Paul Casey, Marco Pinge, Victor Perez, Jordan Smith, Justin Rose, Shane Lowry, Rose and Lowry are 20 and 21 over the last three months. Is Norrin an option? Is Norrin on the table at all? No, I don't think so. I mean, he had the two good finishes there,

but otherwise it was it was pretty, you know, pretty bleak. I think the one, like, you mentioned rasmus near guard peterson over the last six months he's only played twice since the u.s open worldwide like he yeah and and so there's like i just like like to see more starts yeah there right i i think harry hall i think the floor's really high he's like he's a really consistent player obviously the putter's awesome he's not great off the tea which i'm not sure is is is a great formula there i i really like right tan i think he's he's a really good drive driver the golf ball he's the one for me that I'm like man you put him in

is he the 12th guy and you bring something in so I don't know Jamie give me your yeah because I feel like we're aligned on the first 11 yeah my my gutta instinct is that the team will be the same 12 surnames as Rome

I think Rasmus might be in instead of Nikolai but I could see the argument for Nikolai just being exactly the same 12 guys to be completely honest I think Nikolai has been playing better than some of his stats have suggested in recent months. Harry Hall is head and shoulders statistically better than a lot of the other options, but that is obviously individual stroke play. That's heavily weighted.

You said his putting is excellent. Matt Wallace is somebody who could probably play himself onto the team with some good performances. This side of the pond in the next few weeks, we all know how much it means to Matt and how much he would relish the sort of environment of being in a rider cup I think Thomas Dietry after that really promising start

and winning in Phoenix obviously hasn't really kicked on the way Luke and Dota might have hoped and then the real sort of dark horse I would throw into the mix because of the way he drives the ball and decent putting is David Pooge but I just think he's kind of not really in the conversation at the moment.

So if I would think, if it's being picked tomorrow, I think Rasmus just about gets the nod for that 12th spot. But I completely agree that I think 11 are locked in. 11 that were there in room are all locked in for this one already. And it just comes down to who the 12th man is. And realistically, the 12th man is obviously only going to play three sessions. So, you know, you can do kind of what. You don't need a veteran present.

You can, it's a wild card. You don't need a veteran presence. It literally is a wild card. You've got the veteran president. There's so many, you know, in Rory and John Ram and Justin Rose you've got people on that team who have got the experience and have been there, seen it done,

I've got the T-shirt. You do literally get like a kind of roll of the dice. Somebody who just the numbers suggest, you know, they are big, big fans of Rasmus Neargard-Peterson. I know that for a fact that they really like him. I think they probably would have liked him to have kicked on a bit more

after a decent showing at Oakmont and he hasn't massively done that. There's nobody knocking down the door to be that 12th man at the moment. Let's say this week, Somebody plays really well. Yeah, right, exactly. And I do genuinely think there is a very good chance

to be the exact same 12 guys because Nikolai has got the experience of Rome. We know he drives it an absolute mile, has a game that is made for Beth Page, know that he pairs well with John, gets on very well with John. So I could be exactly the same 12 guys. My hunch at the moment is it'll be 11 and Rasmus.

And it could come down to a shakeout of like, all right, here's how we're going to do the pairings. Who pairs the best? four ball with right whoever that might be right and and it's it's it's matching up

what kind of birdies Aaron Rye makes versus Harry Hall or any of that if you look at it like so Rye does get a a pretty sizable course adjustment hit if you look at him directly I mean he's played some good golf

but he gets like a again you can roll your eyes at this but he gets three quarters of a shot or three tenths of a shot course adjustment hit which is a lot that may not sound like a lot but like that's as much that's more of a hit, then Bryson gets in a positive

with Beth Page being a Bomber's paradise. So I think that frames it. Harry's, Harry all is quite neutral and has played really, really solid golf if they wanted to go chalk like that would make sense, I think, in terms of looking just down the, you

know, down the leaderboard. I think if I'm also Luke Donald and especially at Borda Monari, probably looking at this, if you have a Rose, you know, who's kind of played his way into the spot, who's not a long hitter, the more not long hitters you put on the bottom of your team, the more likely U.S. is to exacerbate that advantage

with the core setup. So is that where a Hoygard makes sense in that spot to neutralize that a little bit? Yeah, do you want to balance it? I think, I think your 12th, I think your 12th man is somebody who only plays the four balls and the singles and just makes a ton of birdies. So in that case, yeah, and that case, either the twins fit into that model quite well. They just hit it a mile. They'll make you load of birdies. They might have the old double bogey as well.

but that doesn't matter if you've got Justin Rose alongside you holding your hand and making sure that you're in every hole. So I think that's why you just want your 12th man to be somebody who will make an absolute boatload of birdies and give you a chance of winning a four balls match. I got your answer then. Erdier better percentage on the PGA tour.

Number one, Scotty Sheffler. Number two, Harry Hall. Number two on the PGA tour and birdie or better percentage. How about that? I think, I mean, shit at this point, the way Rose is playing, and he might be your birdie guy, too. He made 26 birdies last week on a course with only two par fives.

So, yeah, I don't know. I think it's like, I truly, I am really curious to see what happens in, you know, at BMW and over in Denmark this week. I think it's interesting. I'll be completely honest. Harry Hall was somebody I hadn't really even sort of heard mentioned in dispatches until I had a little look at the data golf rankings and saw just how well he performed.

He's kind of done it quite sort of on the down low. He hasn't sort of, there's nobody sort of saying, how about that, Harry Hall? He's seen how well? He's playing at the moment. He's just been very sort of steadily going about his business. And lo and behold, he's in the top 50s, but he's playing BMW this weekend.

He's going to be in all his signature events next year. And I don't really sort of, he's done it kind of without really sort of making a lot of big song and dance about it. What are the people saying, over in Cornwall. Harry Hall fever over here. It's all anybody can talk to it.

I mean, I'm not sure anybody in Cornwall is where there's even a rider cup happening in September. The confidence in Rasmus is interesting because he doesn't have a top 10 since DP World Tour Championship last year. Like he just is, and I think he's a good player, but the performance just hasn't, it hasn't been there. And so I'm curious about why him over even Nikolai or the other Rasmus is. And that's a very fair question.

And I think, you know, the points that he's accumulated up to this point, Rasmus definitely sort of skew how well he's actually played. You could, on one hand, you could say it's difficult to look past, you know, where is he in the moment, solely eighth in the rankings? No, ninth in the rankings. He is eighth in the rankings, yes. Yeah. So you could say, oh, it's quite difficult to look past number eight. But he got a lot of points by winning the Irish Open last year.

that's what that's going to be over a year before the Ryder Cup so he's definitely in a bit of unfair position at the moment like he's not the eighth best performing European golfer let's put it that way but I just think he has a bit of credit in the bank having been in room

albeit as part of the backroom staff he's got a big cheerleader in his corner in one of the assistant captains in Thomas Bjorn as I said you know he's just kind of a face fits kind of situation for me like he just he's part of that European team family, wider

family, whereas Harry Hall for me would be a little bit of an outsider. Harry Hall is not somebody I've heard mentioned a lot by the likes of Dodo and Luke. You know what that sounds like, Charlie? What's that? Sounds like a boys club. I think for Rasmus,

there's something to be said for he made the cut in all four majors this year and played quite well at the open. I'm curious to your guys to take on this, because I think how we've been wired to think about the Ryder Cup in the past is it is set up differently now than it has been with seasons ending earlier and not, I mean, and not rolling directly from like 2018, like the Tour Championship was later the week before the Ryder Cup. And it was like hot hands, hot hands, hot hands. And I hear a lot of, I mean, TCU reference it too.

I'm curious to see what's going to happen over these next couple weeks. I mean, Team Europe is going to be set on September 1st. I think I have it right. And then Team USA is going to be set a week before that. Over a month before the next golf shot is hit, I'm of the opinion that I think it is a different projection you're making at that point. I think Hot Hands plays less of a role.

Hazeltine in 2016, like they literally had to pick the writer five days before the Ryder Cup began, you know. I don't think it's hot hand. I think it's more like, hey, like, throw some more stuff on your resume, right? Or, yeah, like, you know, like close the door. Like, this is the, this is the tiebreaker, right? Or this is, you know, all things being equal. Hey, I'm trending in the right direction here.

Or, hey, I've been working on these shots. Let me show you. I think from a European point of view as well, the other thing is that I think Luke and Dodo, they did this two years ago, we're ahead of room as well. They like to have the team settled, make sure all 12 guys are there at Wentworth, which they will be this year.

Try out a few little, they've got a lot of ready, made pairings already. We know that Ludwig's going to partner Victor. We know that Tommy's going to pair with Rory in foursums and Rory's going to pair with fits in four balls. We know that John and Teryl are going to play together, etc., etc. But just to try a few little odds and sods

at Wentworth, they like to have the team locked in and have, right, listen, we've got a full four weeks before the balls go up in the air. Let's make sure that all our eyes are dotted, all our T's are crossed. And I think the US team have probably learnt from the way Europe did it last time around, that

coming in to a Rider Cup completely having like just rusty having played zero competitive golf at all is maybe not the wisest way of doing things either. So I think Keegan is trying to lock this team in and make sure they are a little bit more battle-hardened going into Bethpage than they were going into room. Is there anybody way off the board like Ludwig was last year that they would consider? Like almost as a somebody to prep for 2027? That would be the near guard Peterson or something. near god Peterson or nicholas norgaard nicholas norgaard or david poohge but i think they're just

they're just they've got too much grind to make up and david poohs obviously having not played pGA tier golf and had the experience of u.s crowds um i think it's just too much of a dark course but is his game sets up perfectly for the golf course yeah and somebody like mckibbin or uh chikara or someone like that is is too yeah they're they're just too you know they're it's it's it's too volatile, I think. I mean, Jamie, is there any chance that, like, they set up, like, I wouldn't put it past Dodo and, and Francesco and Bjorn to, like, get the DP World Tour to set up the courses the next two weeks to account for, like, hey, we're like similar stuff to what we're going to see at Bethpage. You could probably do that at the Belfrey with

yeah, you could. And, you know, there's just kind of that flat. Yeah, I don't know much about the course. I don't know much about the course in Denmark but you're right, the Belfrey is kind of quite sort of featureless and you could just grow the rough up a bit and they could do that

but I think the team is pretty much set all bar one spot so making sure having an entire course set up just to find one guy I think is kind of a bit pointless really. I wouldn't put it past them. No, true. And there's a very good chance

that one guy comes from, you know, stateside anyway, if it's Harry Hall or something like that. So we'll see We'll see how it plays out. But there's a very good chance they might have, you know, the K Club and Wentworth set up to be a bit of a sort of Beth Page-like test just to make sure they're ready for that when they get over.

One other guy that we didn't mention that, you know, I don't think he's in the convoy, but I think could have played himself into the convo. It would have been Maddie Schmidt as well. Like a damn near one at Colonial this year. And he stacked up a few other good finishes, but just hasn't hasn't done enough to kind of not quite all right i think that's that's probably the moment right there ford right there you know i think we don't we've done our half hour in you're

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Andrew Novak, the next 13 through 20, Brian Harmon, Cameron Young, Patrick Cantley, Sam Burns, Wyndham Clark, Lucas Glover, Daniel Berger, Akshay Betia, Chris Godderup. Let's start with the trillion-dollar question, the one we've been talking about since maybe for over a year now. How do you see the Keegan situation currently playing Al Porter? Well, I thought, I think Shane Ryan had a good piece on how this is like the worst possible case scenario of him being like tensed or 11 since he won the travelers just for the record he was T-41 at the rocket classic T-30 at the open missed the cut at the Wyndham

T-44 at St. Jude which he would have missed the cut if there was a cut in that one. It's all it's the rocket just to be clear I said that right so the rocket classic just that's what it's called the rocket classic I thought it was just the rocket no it's the rocket classic it's going to be the rocket in a couple of years then the rock they just keep taking taking names off i mean first of all so the 12 you mentioned that are the top 12 right now i think the first nine up to ben griffin are and should be ink locked in i don't think there's anything that should uh that should change that jt morcawa and griffin are your seven eight nine and i think that's I think that's great.

The question would be if Harris English drops out of the top six does he still get a selection? I think it looks likely. That was my one asterisk in that in that top six was like but I think he's also like playing pretty well right now.

Jamie, you were smirking when Porter said that that top nine locks. No, no, no, no, not smirking. No, I just, the sort of the Ben Griffin sort of rise from nowhere has been extraordinary. I never thought I would hear the sentencing right,

Griffin is an absolute lock for the Ryder Cup team. It's been the second best American over the last three months. He's been, no, I'm not scoffing at it at all. I mean, he's been excellent across everything. And yeah, he is in the team, I agree. I just want to Ben Griffin and fits lockheads during singles. I feel like they're just ears of one another. Yeah.

So I think where I land is. It's extraordinary just how different this team is from the, from the room team. I mean, it really is just. Yeah. Yeah. It's night and day. comparing the European team from room to the American team and this time round. And there's been a lot of turnover in American teams from cup to cup over the last decade or so.

I mean, it would surprise you kind of, I think the most they've retained is eight guys from one team to the next over the last decade or so. I'm pulling that out of my ass. I'd have to double check that. But, yeah, I mean, obviously no Ricky, no Brooke. I guess not, maybe not obviously. Got a couple of Ricky questions in there. But no Brooks, no Harmon, no Wyndham Clark. like there's there's four open spots right off the top for for team us from i can't i can't do rickie

no no we're moving on from that but i the place that i've landed solly is like the and this is sort of what i think jamie's sort of alluding to is like the names on the european side are if you just look at this on paper and i've had people contact me and say like i didn't realize how good the numbers were on the u.s side and i think think that's i think that's totally fair if you look on paper the names on the euro side are way better and you just look at it and you're like we're going to get killed but then you look at the numbers and you're like j j j spahn's been a lot better than shane lowry this year j j j j spin j ben griffin's been a lot better than ludwig oberg this year you have to look at like what has actually happened this

year now does that mean anything in september in beth page maybe not but i just don't think there's any reason to go into thinking like Europe is going to absolutely roll over the U.S. Not that these two do, but I think a lot of just casual fans look at the names and think like, oh, this isn't even going to be close. And I just don't think that's the case. And all that being said, I think the U.S. has enough guys that are playing as well or better than Kegan

or just behind him that he shouldn't take himself. And I know we've had this discussion of like, there's a difference between what he will do, what he should do. If he keeps training the way he is, then I don't think he will take himself. I think you'll fill it in with Cam Young or, I don't know, somebody like that

on kind of that back in there. But also he won the BMW last year. The more, he's totally going to win this week. Like, the more I'm thinking about it, that's the only way this is going to end is an emphatic, like, oh, yeah, now I have to pick myself. It sucks for him, though.

It would be so, as the cap, you would you would want to like it would be so fun to take to play right yeah like it sucks in his head in his head when is he going to get another chance to play in a rider cup you've got to exactly like it's more i think it i think it'd be more fun to play than to captain and he's in this really crappy position that i feel for him of like yeah i do you probably shouldn't take himself but he also probably really wants to as a competitor uh i would want to and that just is that's unfortunate for him it's it's amazing to see kind of like pointing this out when he was to that Shane Ryan piece or two it was like watching this happen in slow motion exactly exactly

you knew it was going to happen and then you know he's going to play really well this week at BMW for sure because you know he typically like that it's just kind of you know it's typically he's in a really through he's in the damned if you do damned if you don't sort of situation you know at the moment, is he one of the best 12 American golfers? I would argue that he probably is. We know that how much the Ryder Cup means to him. We know that he can perform under pressure, et cetera, et cetera. I found what happened.

The press conference after Travellers, I found absolutely fascinating because it's the first time that we've actually heard Keegan say, oh, no, this was the plan all along. Like Seth Wall called me up and told me, I wanted you to be a playing captain. But when everything up to that point had been, unless I'm in the top six, I'm absolutely not picking myself.

and then there was this incredible sort of about turn which is like oh no no this this is what we actually wanted to happen if he plays if he picks himself and doesn't play well and the US lose he's absolutely just goat the worst kind of goat like straight to hit him and the rain suits from 2010 will hold the same like status in they go in the European Rider Cup Hall of Fame yeah yeah so why do that that's be my whole thing like because

It would be hard not to. We all know the stories about the kit bag from Glen Eagles and everything and he has for over a decade wanted to make another Rider Cup team and here he's got a chance where he can legitimately turn around and say I am one of the best 12 American golfers

the team is in a better position if I'm on the team and therefore I'm going to play and I would imagine there are quite a few guys in the team who are saying come on Captain we want you to play as well and whether that's right or wrong I don't know but if you pick yourself you better make sure you play well. Like even if he plays well

and the US team loses, he still comes out of it badly because people will turn around and say, oh, well, you only had half, you were only half focused in actually being the best captain you could be. He has to the only way comes out of it well is if the US win and he plays well.

I think a lot of fans want it too. I mean, it was interesting to see... I want it as a fan. Porter, I think a lot of fans that have thought about this for 0.8 seconds want it. Like, well, it's... That's a lot. Yeah, but that's, 80% of the fans.

That's most fans. Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't make it a good decision, right? I'm not arguing that. I know. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, talking to the fans right now.

Like, it, it, and we got a piece we're working on on captaincy that's going to come out here. Europe, Europe would never have called themselves into this position. Exactly. Exactly. I just find the extraordinary thing. But that's like, is Seth Wa just chuckling to himself. Like, man, this is, this is really fun mission accomplished. We've got people talking, talking, talking about the Ryder Cup.

you know laugh all the way to the bank if you're the PGA of America which is you know or like I you know because I don't know like it's I mean shit they they can be talking about a Charlie Woods captain's pick in you know six or seven for all we know you know yeah exactly

I also think it's and I think Tron and Jamie have pointed this out like I don't know that the for better or worse I don't know that the captaincy on the U.S. side is as intensive as it is on the European side in terms of preparation. And I think at home that has served the U.S. seemingly fairly well. You know, Brooks kind of famously in 2021, talked about wanting less stuff going on. And so I do think it's, I think it's more, it's more feasible for a, like, it would be

completely infeasible for a European captain to do, to even do this. I think it's more feasible on the U.S. side, whether you think that's like, good strategically or a good like that the way the u.s goes about things is is the right way is a is a completely different story but i do think it is more feasible for a captain to do it on the u.s son no link up is brought to you by fandole whether you're dialed in every shot or just following the action on the weekend fandole keeps you locked into the pj tour action all week long because all customers get a profit boost every third and fourth round of the bmw championship use your boost on anything from closest to pin to outright winners to top 20 and 30 bets

and more plus you can stack those bets and make a parlay look we joke about it within this episode kegan's got to win this week right it's got to be kegan that's the only way this was ever going to end if that was not enough you can track your favorite golfers in the app of live leaderboards you got player shot tracking tc can still follow fleetwood around wherever he goes uh streaming coverage for two featured par three holes and more if you can handle it head over to fandle dot com slash nL you step up to the tea and take a swing at betting the pGA tour with fandul america's number one sports book fandle official betting on operator the pGA tour must be 211 and older in president select states 18 and older in dc

kentucky wyoming opt-in required bonus issued is non-withdrawable profit boost tokens for restriction supply including any token expiration and max wager amounts he terms at sportsbook dot fando dot com gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help dot com call 1 888 7777 visit ccg.org slash chat in connecticut back to the pod i just think i mean it's for me it's the little things like and people will rule our eyes at this and say that it doesn't matter and it doesn't make a single difference out in the golf course

and they're probably right to an extent. But I think of the little things like two years ago Luke presenting every player with like little miniature rider cups and having an empty space in the middle of a bookshelf, that's where I want to put the real rider cup on Sunday evening or Paul McGinley having, you know,

a fish tank which was only full of blue and gold fish in the team room in Glyn Eagles. Little things like that. A captain spends so much time and attention and energy making sure all those little touches are in place. so that when a player gets there, all he has to do is concentrate on playing his very best golf. And just little touches to make him feel valued

and he's part of the European Rider Cup family. Kegan cannot possibly be pouring all of his devotion and attention into doing that, whilst also trying to make sure his game is in the best possible place. And those are your captains. Not of our captains do that. Yeah, no, exactly. And that's why I'm saying this, Europe would never have been in this position.

Like, it's just the two different approaches to... Yeah, and they're taking time to honor the great man Sevy. And, you know, the U.S. should be, you should be taking time to honor the great man, Phil. They're going to be bringing in Kelly James here, I'm sure, just call it a day. Let's, let's ship it. Let's go for it. But so, real quick, do you, all right, so J.T., you feel, I think, feel better about that than you did maybe six months ago, even. I feel like he's raised his floor.

I mean, he was probably, I mean, that's because it was not quite six months ago, but he had a really good spring and a really good start. to the year. It's not been the best kind of run through the summer, but I'm not concerned. I also think like, yeah, Rome did not go great for him, but he, I mean, he won his singles match and he played the rest of them with Spieth, who was like on borderline unplayable at that point. Did he play great? No, but like it's a really, really, really tall ask when your partner can't keep the ball in play. So I'm inclined to. Come on. Yeah, on the team. Just how do you feel about it going in, I think was more of the question

more than being on the team. Because I think he's a strength. I think he's an asset. Yeah, I think free him up from Jordan and figure out what kind of pairing would go. I think you turn him loose and you've got to play him in the first session. That was a massive mistake that ZJ made, I thought, in Rome

was before J.T. put a peg in they were down for nothing. So, and the people still want to blame JT for that, for losing that Rider Cup. I was like, well, it was over before he even got to play. So. especially on going to soil as well. J.T. is the cheerleader on that team.

He's the emotional energy of that team. He's going to be like a cage tiger. Just fucking get him out in the golf course as soon as you can. 100%. So if we're work, let's work through the final three spots then, I guess. If we're willing to say J.T. Morikawa and Griffin are going to be inked, which I think they would.

Is Cantlight inked for you, Porter, as of right now? Well, again, I think there's a difference between what I think should happen, and what I think will happen. I have heard that he is inked. But personally, personally, I would not have him inked on my team. But I think for the purpose of like, is he going to be on the team? Yes, he's going to be on the team. Five, two, and one rider cup record.

Saw what he did in Rome. He is 12th best American over the last three months, six best American over the last six months. don't think he could possibly play bad enough to keep himself off this team. And I would take him 100%. He's been better than Keegan and Ben Griffin over the last six months

and better than all but three Europeans, which is sort of my point of like, sometimes we talk about, like we talk about Kali, like, oh, he sucks right now. And it's like, there's only been three euros that have been better than him over the last six months. And again, I get that you can throw out the strokes gain stuff and we get to match play.

Like, I understand all that. But the way that we talk about it going in, I think should even should, from some of the discourse right now about how these two teams are being talked about. Because Morikawa is more of a question on how he's playing than Cantlay is. And I'm still not considering leaving Morakawa off this team.

In a different scenario, in a different year where you have Scotty Schaeffler being the 12th man like he was in 2021. Does the Morakawa decision get more interesting? Sure, maybe. But like I'm not, as of right now, my final two spots are Chris Godder up in Cameron Young. and 13th, I don't even know who that would be right now.

So I'm not taking whoever that would be over Morikawa. Solly and Cal are you in agreement of the 10 so far that Kyle said. The current's top six plus Morikawa, Thomas, Griffin and Carlin. You agree with that as well? That's not as committed on the Cantley part as I probably am. Now you're talking two spots and the candidates for those last two spots. Am I right in thinking you've got Keegan Bradley, Sam Burns, Cam Young, Chris Goddorup, Jordan Spath, Mav McNeely.

Two of those six. Is that where it ends? Two of those six. I think Jackson Coivin. Yeah. That's interesting. Thank you. I know.

It's interesting. I don't believe he's a member of the PJ of America. They could probably fix that pretty quickly. I would think so, but I think you'd have to turn pro. And I don't know if he wants to do that, but it's interesting. And it's something that I think Europe could have planned for that I don't think the U.S. as planned for it. they don't even know that he exists yeah well i just don't he hasn't he's played a very few events but

his numbers look incredible and it's just hard to like say to uh you know a cameron young and the people that have gone through the gauntlet of of testing themselves weekly and have some solid results like hey this amateur that didn't really go through all of that uh is better than you and it gives us a better chance to win in rome i think that's just a pretty big leap uh at the moment. Ludwig turned pro in what May of 2023 and I had very clear success immediately even before he turned. I think that was a different kind of decision. Totally. I think the speed thing, do you agree? I think that that is sunset. I think if you did not qualify for the BMW championship, I think he's played solid golf, better golf than people who have recognized and realized and wanted

to admit over the last season. I just still don't think he's Jordan. I don't think he's like nowhere near peak Jordan obviously but not even he doesn't look comfortable in the golf course to me right now he doesn't look like he can string four good solid days together it just doesn't look like consistent game right now to the point where I would feel comfortable taking him over guys that have clearly outplayed him over the last several weeks and months I'm curious we're used to I know I've said that I thought he was more likely to make the team than not I would have thought we had some top 20s and top tens throughout at some point this summer and into this fall and it didn't materialize I don't regret anything i said on this matter but it doesn't uh i i cannot i don't think i can

advocate for that as of right yeah i'm i'm with you i think well one he's unplayable in in alternate shot like you can't i don't think you can like roll him out there right like he there's just you could play him in in four balls but i don't think you could play him in force them's and i think the other thing that's weird about speed is he's been strangely consistent um but it's like t21 consistent you know like upside isn't there anymore yeah if you look at his numbers compared to like a ben griffin i was looking at this last week over the last i don't know what it was six months nine months they've been very similar but spith has been like right here finishing tea you know in the top 25 and griffin has like given himself

chances to win chances to win and i just think that is more i just think that's more valuable and and and maybe there's more volatility there but i don't know some of that you're probably like wanting in a in a match play situation so i'm i agree with you um unfortunately on spith there's one other thing i'd add about spith as well is that in justin thomas you've got a little bit of a rider cup cheat code you've got somebody who is the emotional heartbeat of the team and what can catch fire and just bring everybody with him and be you know and have incredible success he having jordan you almost have to pair jordan with him and that that could actually is just an anchor to somebody in your team

who has that X factor, who has that ability to just put red points on the board. So I think that is maybe something that works against having Jordan Speeath in the team as well. Who have they even put Speeth with other than JTA? They had with Brooks that one time.

Pat Reed. That was kind of weirdly one. And P. I think if Speed is not on the team, you still have to invite Greller. Greller needs to be an assistant captain. or just driving one of the carts. I get down with that.

Do you think he's just they do it still? Maybe you have a grell or caddy for, for Morikawa. Just what size uniform to get him because, like, what, he's on his fifth different caddy of the season. Like, they probably don't know what size to get. They're having to order an entire extra size run of stuff just to account for whoever's on the bag for him. He needs to sort that situation as soon as possible.

Do you think Speedwell, do you think if he's not on the team, which I think we agree that he won't be, which he didn't make the BMW, even though he got like five sponsor exemptions. That was tough. It's tough. I guess I don't chide him as much for that. He didn't get into all of the signature events

and he didn't play his way in from last year because he was hurt last year and needed surgery, right? So it was kind of a rush. It's not like he was in the top 50 and didn't make the top 50 again, this go-around. And there is a tie back to the injury part that would excuse that. And I think if he would have made the top 50 last year and didn't need surgery and all that stuff,

would he have probably made the BMW and we could have strung this out another week? Probably, I just think it's hard. If he's not in the BMW, you can't even consider him. I would think so. And that doesn't mean that I don't think they won't go off the board to pick him. Like I think there's still a chance they might do that. It's just really hard to justify with numbers as we sit here right now. And I think there's, it's just hard to look at like, I don't know, if got her up and Cam Young finished

near the bottom in the last final two weeks, then do you consider going farther off the board? Maybe, but that's where the Kagan problem comes in of like, well, if I'm going to go off the board, I might as well pick myself. Yeah. I also don't know how, I think I know how JT is in the team room

and as the sort of emotional center of that team. I remember in 2016 at Hazelt's team, you know, Phil kind of designated speed as like the future of American golf. and in reference to writer cups, president's cups, all this different stuff. But I don't know that he is necessarily

the vocal, emotional, like, heart and soul of that team. I think there's a component of that. I just don't know how Keegan or the other vice captains or the team like views speed of being in the team room. Does that make sense? Like, I think he's, I think he matters,

but I, it's, it's, I remember solid having this conversation in, uh, 2023 JT is the only guy that I would have said

he has to be there based on how he's playing in 20203 which was terrible and I remember us specifically saying not even Spieth because they're different

in that sense and so I don't know how they I don't know how they view them if they view them a lot more highly than I think they do then maybe they do go off the board a little bit and take him still what I mean

so what we're talking about here is depending upon how they feel about the core of the team. We're talking about guys that are going to be playing maybe two sessions, right? Like, how much do you want to? Because I think, like, I'm looking at the, the, uh, can't lay stats.

His putter's been a little bulky this year. He's still the same driver of the golf ball. He's still, like, I would have, and I think you want somebody that steely and that, like he's going to play really well in that environment. Cantlay is like, it was awesome than, right? More so than anybody else.

I think it's like, I have confidence that similar to Rose, that like he's going to, he's going to get better as the stakes get higher in the Ryder Cup. Now, why that hasn't translated to two majors, I don't know. But,

but I think there is something about match play where, like, you can play offense and, you know, there's less downside risk to a shot. But like, you know, I think a lot of this comes down to how you feel about the core of your team,

right? With Zander, with, you know, I would feel good about Scotty and Spawn. And I would feel great about Henley. you know probably going to send bryson out there at least four sessions but you know so it's kind of like all right are you crafting this to get you know a good you know good roll of dice in singles

and then someone who is an obvious match with someone in either foursums or four ball right and and so it's kind of like hey what are your what are your obvious pairings and you know if sam burns doesn't make the team who are you pairing scotty with right i think that's an essential question is there someone yeah okay yeah and does russell henley's rise to prominence kind of has that adversely affected sam burns chances of being a pick because scottie's got his ready made partner you don't need sam burns anymore sam burns defense uh school here he was one of the better american players in rome i know everyone remembers that disastrous first session he had but like it'll at least from a stroke's game perspective he was uh one of the best americans we had now granted nobody really played well over

there but I think it people erase him as uh you know his record wasn't very good at the president's cup he played at quill hollow but he carried scottie in that one and a funny thing about like we were we're we're we're an hour into this and like the rider cup at least from the american side is going to matter way more about how scottie shephler plays than then how the 12th man plays it's just not what a lot of the content ends up being on the front end the european chances is going to ride way more on john rom and roy mackleroy than it will yeah rasmus hoigard who picks up that 12th spot, but that's been just a quiet thing in, like, at least from Rome is like Scotty was a zombie over there, which made absolutely no sense.

And he's clearly emerged as like, is he going to, a big question I have is like, are you going to be like the tiger of like, we can't figure out why you can't play well in this format? Or are you just going to like continue to be the best player in the world and stomp on fools over there? Because that's, again, just way more of a question than kind of figure out this bottom of team. not nearly as fun to talk about for so exactly i want to do i think another thing with burns is like just looking at the president's cup he played really well up in canada as well he had a good week that week uh i'll give it up with morikawa yeah and then and then you know pretty pretty fruitful

pairing with uh can't lay as well so um he's a he's a high floor safe pick that you know you can get three sessions out of would clearly rather have him than kegan on the team for me um for your bottom two just sully just to get it your your bottom two at the moment are young and got her up if if you're getting ready to play it next week and you made me pick that's probably what i would do especially considering the course fit um of all right we're going bomber um yeah henley you're not a bomber but you're going to play with scotty and that's going to be a fantastic fit for you and almost everybody's going to be above average distance I think Burns is a totally fine pick

definitely unsexy and I think it could fit I almost wonder if I'd rather not do it just because of the narrative around it of Boys Club and I just don't know if I could hear those two words together for an entire other cycle of Ryder Cup young and gutter up is the sexy pick if you like

and I can see the temptation of playing them together in four balls as well you know two New Yorkers and get the crowd going and both make a ton of birdies and you know a little bit like homes and weekly we're at valhalla you know a real sort of the new yorker boys out there together in four balls how can you not want that as a captain i can completely see the appeal of that yeah and i mean yeah got another one like and edwardo talked about this too of you know those those guys might be too similar of players like do you pair a cameron young with a jj spawn who you want your four four ball pairings to be

birdying different holes to be you know you don't want to be covering each other up now granted that's kind of when you get into the variance element of it like dude i don't know how you can possibly predict how jj it you know these guys are going to burdy a lot of holes as it stands uh anyways but um i and that when you get into the pairings and i mean i think zander and can't lay would make a ton of sense obviously on the u.s side and that's something we've seen uh many different many times in many different team events the morikawa who who you pairing mora up with is a big question and where does Bryson fit into everything? I think Bryson's elevated his play

to the point where he's going to be a feature and you'd figure out how to make it. It should work with almost anything. Now, how does it work with forcums with him with whatever the hell golf ball testing he's doing right now? And again, going back to Eduardo's conversation about testing. Ludwig was testing somebody's ball several, I forget who it was, several months before the Ryder Cup.

Like, could this pairing work? And Ludwig was sitting it 30 yards shorter with that golf ball. So they were like, okay, well, that's out. But you can also sub in different golf balls as you're playing. There's so many elements to all of piecing together the foursome stuff that, like, we can guess all we want. I just got like, 0.1% of the information I would need to be able to slate some of that. I guess another thing is like, who do you put H.E. with?

Yeah. Right? And like he paired up with, with fienal. Enlistling straight. So big tones on the team. Is he the guy you pair with Bryson? Yeah, you can put Harris English with anybody, couldn't you? Like, well, just what a.

a steady player to have in your team. Yeah, and steady personality. A little bit's golfer. Just, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, solid to your point, like, I think it'll be really interesting

if Mav McNeely plays well this week. Because I think Mav is, I think Mav is a sleeper. I think he's played well in match plays. He played in two Walker Cups. Like, he's one of those guys that I'd love to see get a chance because I think he's,

he's a very analytical player. I think he's, I don't know, I just drives the ball very well, you know, he's, he's someone that I think all things being equal, like, you know, I don't think he would get flustered in the moment, but, you know, who knows? And I'm, I'm on the Cam Young bandwagon as well. I just think the, he's got loud traits. Yeah, and he's putting so freaking well. And, you know, putting's not that kind of thing where you can say a month and a half from now, you're going to be putting just as well. I know, but it's easy to fall in love with right now. It's just hard to like, I was looking at this too, a way of...

When we did this podcast last time, Sully, the look that you gave me when I even suggested Cam Young was like a derisory rule of the eye. He stunk. Well, I also think the other thing with Cam Young is he's not necessarily somebody I would consider taking on the road because I think one of the things we learned in Rome is you got to bring your own, bring your own juice.

Like you got to bring your own energy. And he'd, for all, all the things that he does well he doesn't do that very well and so but i think at home it doesn't i'm good with i i think if he plays halfway decent this week i think he's i think he takes every bucks doesn't he just like he has a game made for beth page he is a new yorker he makes a ton of birdies like he's playing well at the moment i don't see how if the team's being picked tomorrow he doesn't get in so how far how far down the list do you have to go until you say okay i'd rather have Keegan than that guy as let's say Keegan is like the 12th guy um how far Daniel burger

like is day like would you rather have Daniel burger or keegan that's close that's kind of the territory probably burger still i just am so out on new vac no vac or kegan but you know what like I'm sure out on those genuine question no no it's a good one that's a good but I also like will say I'm so out on the idea of a playing captain but again like we're so far into it now like so much of the what I think the potential damage that could be done has been done. I'm less afraid of him

going for it now. I just think this all could have been avoided to this point and we wouldn't have to you know do any of this. Whether or not it actually matters we'll see but like I just don't think this was a necessary risk. I think that Novak got her up pairing just a burly ass

look honestly Novak and I'd rather yeah I'd rather Griffin probably at this point and I'd rather I was just dead wrong about the playing captain thing and it won't be a big deal like that's probably what I would go with like everyone's yelled at me for this for first I got TC to come around to my side which is like the hardest thing in the world to do uh I think I only need to convince no I think I convince the whole T like as much as they've just been whining me up all year long

I think I'm gonna play you just indulge me so I'm gonna play a game here oh god I'm just gonna go down the list right they're the 12th pick okay And it comes down to Keegan or, and I'm going to give you a name. And just tell me whether you go for Keegan or the name I give you, okay? So Keegan or Denny McCarthy. Keegan. Keegan or Kurt Kittiyama. Keegan.

It feels like we're bringing to news here. Keegan or Akshay. I mean, Sol is a huge auction guy. I'm a big Akshay guy. I'd love it, probably. The Aksha. Keegan or Brian Harmon. Keegan.

Keegan or Andre Novak. I'm in on Novak. I am too. It's Keegan, though. Like, there we go, right? Keegan or Wyndham. End of podcast. Honestly, I might take the blow pig

over just to get under the skin of the Europeans. Yeah. here's the thing though like i i i i think some of this could get worked out a little bit if let's say uh let's say one of the let's say no vac wins this week at the bmd right then i think i think you are you've got can't lay cam young and novac as a pretty obvious 1011 12 going into let me can i stop you there like why would that be obvious though like why do if if novac wins this week do you think that improves his chances of being a better player in rome

No, I don't. So why would you build a team that way? I mean, Sally, what if, what if Ryan Gerard wins the tour championship? Howdest player in the world? You got to put them on the team. But, Sally, I think, I think this is where it's like such a, I think the U.S. is very concerned about what their PR image. Yeah, I agree.

Right? And so I think it would be, I think they go so much on like, oh, well, what's the least. and not a blowback I could get from, totally. And so I agree with you, you were so sad on what they want to do and they could not care less what the reaction to that is, whereas I think Keegan is somebody, and this isn't a reflection of Keegan, but Keegan and his assistant captains are much more likely to sway

and, you know, go with what they think the public sentiment would be for something. But I think the Euros also do a better job broadly, not talking Ryder Cup, but of like sort of giving breadcrumbs to us idiots in the media, of like, hey, kind of thinking about Ludwig here, like six months out to turn the tide a little bit and get people on board. I think they know how to play the game a lot better than, I mean, does Keegan talk to anybody about any of this? You know, there's just a, I don't know,

it's kind of a weird, it's a weird thing. And I think I agree with you, Sally, about the, like, Andrew Novak wouldn't be better in Bethpage if he wins this week or doesn't. But the perception of what Andrew Novak is would change a lot if he wins this weekend at the BMW. And that's where I, the reason I was challenge you on that is so many fans think that way, right? And I'm genuinely curious. And I get the sense that the U.S. captains think that way as well.

I mean, Keegan said it as, but Egan said after he won travelers, that changed things. And I wanted to scream from the rooftops. Like, what if Tommy would have just stuffed it on 18 and he would have finished second? Like in what world would that one shot gap possibly make a difference come September, right? And that's where I think so much of that thinking has, you know, been so prevalent with the U.S. side for decades that at some point you need to expect, like, just get rid of that.

You need to not think in that way. And I mean, it sounds like you need a task force. That's a very, it's a very American worldview, though, right? Like, it's binary. But that's, you want or you didn't. And it's a very non-European worldview. which I think is what James Furek did in Paris in 2018. And I know we've sort of discussed this plenty,

and he kind of had no other option, really. But he went with the hot hands in 2018. And yeah, and they all were just exhausted, emotionally spent. And, you know, Tiger was a shell of himself a week on from what he had to do at the Tour Championship. And yeah, so I do think there's a massive part in the US thinking comes into, oh, how will this be received publicly? Thankfully, we got Phil Bryson out of that, so it's solid.

Do you guys think Phil will be a Rider Cup captain? Yes. Really? Yeah. I think so too. I think there's a second act here where Phil is a writer-cup captain, a broadcaster. I think time heals a lot of things. And I still think Phil,

has, like, kind of a cool, like, final act. I think it's easier for an American to be welcomed back into the fold than it is for a European because the PJF American, the PGF, American, the PGA tour, two separate entities than it is for a lot of those European guys that left kind of and decided to burn the house during their way out the door are still, and for a long time, will be pursuing non-grata within the European tour, Rider Cup, Europe family. And interestingly, them name.

naming them sort of saying that the 2031 Rider Cup was going to be in Spain I suddenly thought hmm do you know who would be kind of the perfect captain for that but is there too much water under the bridge has too much damage been done I don't know whether everyone will sort of bash their heads together and a few sort of you know

a bit of humble pile will be eaten within the next six years but Sergio would be the perfect captain for a PJ I think there's two options in Catalonia for that captaincy it's either Pablo or a thobble or a hologram of the great man, Sevi. I thought you were going to say Pablo Martine.

Kyle, I can't imagine, like, Phil has been, I don't know, what do you weigh what he's said publicly versus what would happen? Like, I honestly, a concern of mine would be if Phil was a captain, and can't believe we're doing this right now ahead of this, this rider cup, but like, what he might, like, what he was saying about walking? He should have been his writer's up. versus Scotty? Like, what if he takes six lift?

I honestly don't know if he would give the PGA tour. Like, guys, enough of the crap. Big Lips gone by this to it. Yeah, yeah. That's sort of one. But I've read on the everything app that's not going to happen. It's Grant or that. Take Grant or that.

The winner of the Creator Classic, it's an auto. Solly, you might play in a Rider Cup. Or the Creator Classic, the winner of the Cruel's, and the winner of the Duel's faces off the winning spots. I think there is maybe a world where Phil does commentary because it would be so entertaining. I think the curtain has come down

on Phil being this genius that he thinks he is and I don't think he had the keys over to him but I could be wrong because it would sell tickets and it seems to be the driver of things. It's an entertainment product. For sure.

Don't forget that. This should have been. Beth Page was penciled in to be Phil's captaincy, wasn't it? When it was in Lawrence. No European captain would ever take the money over the captaincy. that's one thing we know for sure that would never happen so i mean sally what's like what's the

worst case scenario over the next couple weeks for you hegan wins either bmw or torch championship or both novac wins or um i don't knowvac winning i don't even think that would automatic qualify him i i guess i got to have a little bit of faith in the process here of that they would not let results from like the last couple of weeks override bigger picture, a bigger picture image of where they're probably sitting right now. I think worst cases like... What if Rick Sonston wins the Denmark? But this is a genuine question.

Do you even know who that guy in the room? So Luke, I mean, Luke's pretty much... Is Snetick or that guy? He knows what he wants to do anyway, right? But he has got Dodo alongside him who's saying, this is what the numbers are saying. This is what we're going to do. this is plan A. If plan A doesn't work, this is plan B and this is plan C.

Who is the guy alongside Keegan saying, nah, trust me, these 12 guys are the guys that are going to win us back at the Ryder Cup? Does he have somebody alongside him doing that? Probably Furek would be my guess on that. And you can scoff at that, but I mean, like... No, no, I'm not scoff. No, I mean, you know, Rome did not go great for him,

but the reviews from players from... Sorry, Paris did not go great for him, but the reviews from players from his President's Cup, Cap and C, were very strong in terms of the organization and if you go back we interviewed jim summer of 2020 kind of reflecting on on rome and he was very upfront about things he'd learned from there and it from the guys i'd talked to it felt like those lessons had taken and that it was a a positive experience they had and he's the only one with that's president's cup that's different

no but he will be leaning on furek massively i'm sure because all the other assistant companies it's the first time run for them as well correct um and i think there is You can question some of the decisions he's made, but there's something to say for somebody that's gone through it all to know where the landmines are at minimum. Like if you go all brand new captains that have all never been there, like you're going to get tripped up by some landmines of some stuff. Whether or not, you know, people recognize that or not,

there's just procedural shit. There's, you know, not being organized. Like that's a lesson Jim learned. He was not organized enough with contingency plans with some of his parings in Rome. If this went really wrong, what do we do? and that's something that was very organized for the President's Cup so if it gets turned over

not really done things like that yeah he did not plan for that yeah we haven't talked about P yet yeah you know what's you know what's disappointing is you've got a five-time major winner who won at Bethpage who should be in his prime

and he's completely not pickable I think that is such a it's such a it's such a bummer like and I know there's injuries and whatever but it just I don't know. Like, I'm very, I'm very disappointed in that. Honestly, I'm, I'm relieved. I just, I watched Kepka in Rome. I watched him and talked to him while he was over on the putting green by himself during one of the sessions, just kind of like being pretty disinterested in the whole process.

Granted, that might be a reflection of ZJ more than it is anything, but I'm just kind of like, I'm good on the Brooks thing. I mean, he's chatted the bed twice, the last two rider, you know, the, and those were road ones. I mean, he's been good in the home ones, so maybe that's a bit unfair. I'm honestly just kind of, you know, I'm ready to move on from that aspect from the Rider Cup. I agree with you. I just am disappointed that there's not more like focus and like want to from him. I mean, think about it that a euro that like Justin,

we're talking, we started talking about Justin Rose. Like he just wants it so badly. And Brooks, it just seems like it's kind of like, I've done that, like, whatever. And you're just like, that sucks. Like, that's a bummer, like from an American standpoint. The weird thing for me with Brooks is, You know, you talk about, you know, the fact that he, in the U.S.

Rider Cups, he's been pretty solid. And on the last two road ones, he just hasn't turned up. For me, you would think that Bruce Kepka, who was somebody that decided to cut his teeth on the challenge tour in the European tour and try to expand his horizons and experienced golf around the world would be the one person who you would think that, you know, would turn up for a Road Rider Cup.

And it just has not been the case. So it is a bit of a sort of strange one that. Yeah. What's the chances that, Kyle and Sally, what's the chances that we get somebody off the board? Like a total curveball. Like I, let's say even just setting aside, like he's playing really well right now. And let's say he plays really well the next couple weeks, like a Kurt Kittiyama.

And they see something with course set up and say, all right, you know what? Like, we know how we're going to set up this golf course. It suits his traits to a T or a Lucas Glover even or someone like that. I mean, he's won at Beth Page before. I think very low. I think so often they go to, they defy, to go into the team and saying like who do you guys want like i think about uh i think of i think about uh shuffler in 2021 you know that that was kind of like the yeah we we need to have this guy on

the team and so i don't i don't yeah for sure i don't know that they're i just don't i i i part of it is like they have too many guys that are that that that you could choose from in those like 12 to 15 you know spots right now i just don't i don't see that happening i mean if if cam and and gotter up have a tough two final weeks i think as much as i don't want to base everything off of that like a really tough playoff stretch from goder up like he had three great tournaments and three bad tournaments yeah i think there's wiggle i think there's a way he could play himself off the team like i don't think his spot is like i'm not as convinced there um Cameron young's success stretches back a little bit farther um going back to to u.s open and i think he's maybe

he got a little bit more runway than Goddra up might have. He's got years of credit in the bank as well to an extent Cameron Young. You know, he's got a nice record of nowhere. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so worst case scenario is like both those guys shit the bed and you're scrambling for those final two spots. Keegan's got to pick himself. And then the last one goes to Sam Burns.

And then team like the energy and mojo from a fan perspective would be in an all time low heading into that because you had the boys club on top. Well, maybe I don't know, people I think would cheer the Keegan being the captain. Yeah. playing captain at this point um it would but um i also don't know how many i don't think i'm in on gotter up as a as a 12th guy right now i think i would take uh i think i would take burns over him partly because like you know the the courses that he had success on it's like not a facsimile for beth page at all right and i just don't know how much value i put on it feels a little bit like

the lucas glover thing in in 2023 where it's like oh well he had these two these two weeks in in August and like he's got to be on the team and you're like maybe like I don't I don't I don't difference there is the distance like yeah going to Beth page with distance I think is a little bit different uh you mean you can make that case a lot easier that's where like the Novak thing doesn't get me as excited about hot play is like he's not a long hitter and it's not you know doesn't necessarily set up that great for it he has he had success of course is in July therefore he's

yeah that's what I'm sorry but he played both twin cities. I was kind of like, all right, that's actually good to see. I wanted you to see play when you play well at just the green grass golf course. Totally. I think that's, yeah, the twin cities and the, you know, shit, the CJ cups of the world, right? I think the, I think it's going to be really, really important for the U.S. team to send their dudes out first and get off to a good start in this thing. Because, like, I could see the, I could see the U.S. crowd turning on this U.S. team to put up a stinker day one. New Yorkers boiled up blue-colored

New Yorkers. Although maybe they've been priced out. Sure, they'll be reasonable. And like really riding a guy like Morikawa or you know. They turned on Brooks in 2019. Yeah. Yeah, that's, so a couple of the alternative questions I want to get to.

Yeah. Yeah. We got a bunch of questions. We've kind of worked some of them in, but want to spell this out. This is a good one from Eli Hardin. Is the writer kept the pinnacle of the sport and win at all cost competition or a hit and giggle designed to recognize and honor the best players over the last 24 months

because the answer to this completely changes how you pick a team and I lean towards the latter meaning he says it's more of a hit and giggle Jamie you wanted this question I just think that question is a so sad and kind of sums up an American attitude

to the writer cup and that's not painting with a broadbush I know a lot of Americans feel extremely passionate by the writer cup exhibit A is Chris Solomon right here but just for Europeans it is absolutely everything like it just they would you know

you think of stevie clutching Faldo's face in 95 both of them in floods of tears you think of Monty holding the winning pot in 2004 you think of the entire team room speaking to a dying sevy on the phone in 2010 at Celtic Manor you think of Rory in Floods of Tears

after he lost the Ryder Cup four years ago at Whistling Straits it is the Beall and Endel the Ryder Cup for a European and the perception rightly or wrong really is that the Americans just do not care as much and the words hit and giggle would never be uttered by a European golfer

when it comes to the Ryder Cup. That is so much the crux of what the main difference between the two sides is that those European guys would absolutely batter the door down to get onto that team. That is just for two years it's all they can think about is making that next Ryder Cup team.

The egos are left at the door for Alpha males like John Ram, Rory McElroy. it's this one week which is just sacrosanct and you've heard Rory speak about he had three career dreams he wanted to accomplish

one was in the career grand slam that's done and another is win another rider cup and away rider cup that's how much it means so I just think that that question is so symptomatic of an American attitude

towards the rider cup and I know that's not speaking for everybody I know there are Justin Thomases and Max Holmes of this world who care passionately about pulling on that red, white and blue but I think there are a lot more Americans the likes of Brooks we've mentioned Patrick Cantley

Xander Shofley where it's not life and death for them where it's just okay it's great I've made the team and I'll go out and I'll give my best shot but if we lose we lose me whatever and I think that's really sort of hit the nail on the head all comes back to the great man Sevy it does well look it is I know you sort of but it is part of it you know for sure you're making up narratives we're not in our eyes at any of this stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We recognize it. I think it, I mean, it's, it, it just comes down to, I think, typically the United States team is more talented. I think you have to go back to 2014 to convincingly say the European had a better, Europeans had a better team in 2014 than the U.S. did. So the ability of Europe to overcome the odds as the underdog and win this event is. Yeah.

And make up that talent gap is what makes it super interesting to me. Granted, it could just be chocked up to home field advantage at this point because the modern one has trended that direction. I don't really have an answer to that. But yeah, I think it's also there's always this undertone, Jamie of like the things that matter the most in the United States have the most money attached to them. Like just not even talking about golf, just generally. That's how we keep score. And which is not, I think, the best way to like go about living your life. but that's just how things are in a in our society and our world and so i think there's

sometimes this weird like thing of oh well there's no money like nobody's getting paid so like does this mean a lot like there's almost this like question of like can i care about this you know like can can i can i can i give myself over to this and i am it reminds me a little bit of college football in Waitron of like, you know, the commercialization of it has, I think, tainted the way that we view it a little bit. And I think that's somewhat happening with the Ryder Cup as time goes. I'm sure private equity will get involved at some point over the next 10 years or whatever. The PGA Torch is going to take the screws to the PGA of America and say, hey, you either sell us a pretty big portion of this thing or we're going to ratchet up the appearance fee for

these guys you know yeah yeah so i i i think that is always like an undertone here of like yeah there it's just a it's it's a weird uh i view it the way you do jamie but i think sometimes like on the whole it's not viewed that way i agree with you that there's this whole the you know u.s culture is about look after number one and you know the more money you make in life the more of the success you are as an individual but what what i sort of wrestle with a little bit is if you define to me, if you say to me who are one of the most patriotic countries in the world, who cares most about their

anthem and their flag and, you know, it's the USA. So surely a competition where you are pitting your country against another continent. Like, it should tap into everything that is about being American. But, you know,

why does patriotism go out the window for this competition? Can I, I have a kind of a theory on this and it's it doesn't go out the window. It shines through in the mentality of how you go about doing it, how you can go. Like I think Justin Thomas wants to win this thing as badly as Rory McElroy does. But Rory has shown an ability to buy into it. The first one there is a process to buy into.

And he is willing to lay himself like the analogy I always give is like you check your nameplate outside the locker room and you pick it back. Your team, you're up when you show up and get there. and when J.T. gets to the Ryder Cup, he's still JT, right? And I think all these guys really want to win it. I think Can't really wants to win it. I think they just want to do it in their own way. I think they play well in singles. They play well in singles and they want to just be like,

I'm going to go be, you know, Colin Mark Howl and I'm going to whip your ass more than I am going to be part of Team USA and do it together as a team. And I know you can roll your eyes at that in terms of like it's an individual sport. I'm not even talking about the golfers personally. I'm not even talking about the guys who represent the team. I'm talking about the general public attitude towards it as well. The fact that you have a question from an American, I'm assuming he's an American listener saying,

oh, I think it's probably a bit of a hit and a giggle. Well, I would have thought American golf fans, like, oh my God, here's our chance to assert our dominance over another continent, show that we're the best in the world at this sport. I can't understand how that wouldn't just tap into a real American attitude towards sport. No, I don't know how have a good answer to it. it just don't think like a lot of fans think about like care it US is on I'm going to watch

and root for team US but there's also a huge culture in the US of just like shitting all over your favorite team as well I do it with the Reds all the time like it's almost more fun to hate your team and and get mad at everyone in the process than it is to will them to victory like there's a lot of that in American sports as well we have that too yeah there's also a sense of when you lose you're like I didn't care about that anyway like whatever yeah So, yeah, that's another thing that amazed to be about Europe is, like, every four years, there's a home rider cup. It's in a different country. And, like, you would think these fans do this weekly with the chants and the songs and the connect, like, Tommy, Tommy, Fleetwood.

How the hell did you get a Tommy Fleetwood and Molinari chant organized in time? They'd never played together before Paris. They're doing it all the way to the train stations. Like, that's just a different way. We'd rather just yell at our players that they screw up more than, like, seriously. either boo them, then we would kind of take on that kind of, you know, attitude and everything. But it's a really, is one last question for me, are, like, is the whole U.S. team with the exception of Bryson, are they all going to play Napa to get ready for this thing?

I don't know if everyone is. I think they're going to get close. They're trying to get everyone. And I hope they would. I hope Bryson comes and is just walking around out there. I hope, you know, they get everyone there. least and right if you go do breaking 50 or whatever for like four days straight it at beth page you know he could audition potential playing partners off the course uh do the breaking 50

i love that idea i think there are lessons to be learned from rome uh i don't know how they could have possibly not known that they would be jet lagged and that they would be competitively rusty that have been something that i was on that list of things of like i kind of trust them to at least know that part and they use that as an excuse if i was like put on the majorly rose colored glasses from 2023 a part that everyone wants to roll their eyes at and not give any kind of you know recognition to is the fact that half the team was on antibiotics because they were it was something in that week and again i know that always gets met with an eye roll but like ricky couldn't play one of the days because he was so sick apparently and it's the most important

ability availability yeah and so again that's excuse making and it's never going to end up winning the day. But that's something that I've at least tried to consider overtime as well. The same way that like 2021 was a massively weird year for the Europeans in terms of COVID and travel and not being able to have fans there and everything. Like these things probably end up mattering at a certain level. So I have no idea what's going to happen. I feel as, you know, I don't feel passionately about the bottom of the team at all.

Like 2021, I was arguing Scotty Sheffley, versus Kevin Naw and Kevin Kisner. Like that, I felt very passionately about that one. I felt that was obvious. I didn't feel, I felt passionate about the JT thing in 2023. I didn't really feel passionate about the Burns thing at the very end. And the bottom two spots I don't feel very strongly about at this point. But to your earlier point, you know, the Ryder Cup's going to be won by Roy McElroy, John

Ram or Scottie Sheffler. More likely. Under Shuffley, it's not going to be won by Rasmus Hoygard or. It could, but it's more likely that it's going to have to come from. your top guys just got to play good golf like that's definitely what decides this thing and if you go back to rome and look at the top four players amongst both teams uh in strokes gained which again you can or top four players in the entire event victor hovlin john rom Tommy fleetwood rory mackroy night night like that that's it that's where the entire advantage was gained the next two are can't lay in homa then you had hatton burns rose

straca then you get everybody else lost strokes to the rest of those guys and so that's again way more likely to decide things. Now granted, how comfortable you feel at the bottom of the lineup can affect how you play those guys, how many matches you play those guys, who you play them with, and it can have an impact on all of that. And it can, you know, the strength at the bottom helps buoy the top as well, I think. But it's, it's, again, we just need, if Scotty Sheffler shows up and plays good golf, IDUS is probably going to win this.

That's probably even more specifically, foursomes, right? Like the foursomes has determined the writer cup for the last. six rider times yeah yeah what if the pga of america just thinking out loud here carry haig outgoing carry haig i believe you kind of going to retire at some point here i believe he's an englishman he is and what would be the best thing for the rider cup moving forward in a way victory

you're suggesting that carry haig is going to is going to throw the rider cup. I can see some funny business with the course set up. Yeah, maybe. I mean, sure. I think I think our way out. We don't need that. I think we're probably there. Unless there's any, any last pretty questions that we possibly couldn't have gotten to. I think Kerry Hague might throw the rider cup for Europe is probably, that's the canary and the coal mine for me. It might be time to wrap this up. But I'll get this last one. Trey and Nash. 39.51. Who's your sleeper pick to steal the spotlight this year? There's always

somebody on both sides that outplays, Jamie's got his. I'm shocked. I'm shocked that Jamie's got a guy. You're going to name six guys here. I'm not going to name an American to surprise you all. JJ Spong. Yeah. Well, maybe it's not that much of a sleeper pick then, but I think JJ Spawn has

all the sort of signs of being the Francesco Molinari of Paris. Every time I see him, I'm so impressed with his demeanor. I'm so impressed with the way he talks off the golf course. I'm incredibly impressed with how he is when the chips are down. You know, last night could have gone either way to drain that pot on the second playoff hole and the guy's just I think he's fantastic and, you know, it's come to him a bit later in life

which I think means he appreciates it that bit more. And I think he could be a serious gun for Keegan. So I think JJ Spawn's going to have a fantastic rider cut. There you go. Surprised you didn't that. That was going to be my pick. Yeah, that was going to be my pick. Yeah. Griffin for me. I thought your interview with him, Sally, was fantastic. He's such a great, he's, one of my buddies who listened to it and we were talking about how he's such a great combination of like cocky but also humble. Confident. Yeah. Which is, which is weird. Like it's, it's hard to, I don't know, you'd have to like hear him, I guess, you'd have to listen to

the interview to, to understand that. But I'm, I'm excited about, I think he has an opportunity to I think he's a candidate to like really get the crowds going and really get them on his side. I think that'll be interesting. I'll say Ludwig. I don't think we saw the best of Ludwig in Rome. I think he was very much a, you know, best option that they had and build a very specific need

and a very specific hole. But, you know, I just think he's so gross agnostic. He beat the world number one. He beat the world number one and a five-term major champion nine and seven in Rome. We didn't see the best of them. no no i know i know he wasn't that good he wasn't he wasn't yeah like he wasn't yeah like he wasn't right and i think that i think he's a guy that you can roll out there four or five five times

and like he's you know he's fit he's trending in the right direction i i think i don't think we've seen the best of ludwig and i think he's going to he's going to thrive in this environment yeah i think that's we and this is we haven't talked about much of this but we got question from Farnan and Andy could this be uglier than Kiowa? I mean it's kind of a thing going into Beth page that I know has been a big narrative we haven't talked a whole heck of a lot of it on this pod of are we worried about this one on the flip side sally are we like are we overestimating the New York presence in that like is a lot of this just going to be corporate hospitality and a bunch of I see I think a lot of

you know corporate guys spending four grand a day on a ticket yeah I think a lot of blue colored up long islanders have been sort of priced out of this haven't they really they'll still they'll still be boisterous it'll still be rowdy but i don't see it being hazeltine or even i'm going to mention the b word boys or even brookline you know i just i just i just i just can't see it being nearly as as nasty as that it wouldn't be a it wouldn't be right on the price yeah it's a good point on the priced out element but i i don't know man it's it's it's there's going to be years it's going to be sure i don't know if it's going to be ugly it's just yeah and like i don't want to a lot of the obvious depends on what happens in the actual matches obviously well and europeans

the european team does have a tendency to be a bit sensitive about some of this stuff is what like throws gas on the fire like i think that's that's just a fact of life like i think that there's we're just respectful if it happens there's going to be a reaction and there's going to be a when you got But when you got a homeboy, what's his name? Joey. You know, yeah, you know, Joe the show. Yeah, you guys handled that one really well. It was handled nice and really calmly.

You just don't do that. Hey, he's a small town, Sally. Hazeltine was bad. I mean, it was. It was really bad. It was uncomfortable. I think there was a, obviously, an undercurrent of. Danny Will's brother helped not help with that.

No, he didn't. But also, like, that was a. unique year for America in general is probably the best way to say that I'm hopeful that that is gone away some but yeah I I'm I'm definitely concerned a little bit about it but I yeah usually I think a lot of times when you talk about this a ton leading into it it doesn't reach the level that you're that you're getting to you know so hopefully hopefully that's the case with this But I think, so I think it's always been so hyped up that the actual reality will probably be less than we are expecting. Yeah.

But if there's a European presence, oh my God, a writer cup in New York is going to be horrible. The reality is it would probably be a lot tamer than we've built it up to be in our own heads. We'll see. I don't know. But that's going to wrap us. Well, this, I appreciate Jamie, one you calling in from a holiday and everyone's spent in their Monday morning with us. I've greatly, greatly enjoyed doing these. And they're fantastic brained up.

Can't wait to see what happens in the next couple weeks. We'll have captain's picks here after the Tour Championship on the U.S. side, September 1st for the American side. The top six will be decided for the Americans here after the BMW. So plenty of dates I look forward to. We'll be all over it. But thank you all for joining. And thanks everyone for listening and tune in. Jamie, please give the Cornish my best.

I'll send them you enough. For Fandle, must be 21 older and president in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Tark Casino or 18 and older and president in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. gambling problem call 100 gambler vision rg dash help.com call one 888 789 777 or visit ccpg.org or visit mdgambling help.org in maryland hope is here visit gambling helpline m a.org or call 800 327550 for 247 support in massachusetts or call 1 8778 hope and why or text hope and why in new y thanks for listening