No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1064: Future of the PGA Tour + Team Europe Finalized

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

We've got a two-part pod tonight as Soly and TC react to the six captains picks for the European Ryder Cup squad and round up some assorted news and notes. Part two (36:15) adds in DJ to the mix as we react to the first month of the Brian Rolapp era and some potential changes that could be coming to the PGA Tour ecosystem. Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: ⁠⁠⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠⁠⁠ Support our Sponsors: Titleist Whoop ⁠⁠Holderness & Bourne⁠ ⁠The Stack System⁠ If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. I mean, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Noleng, a podcast, Sali here.

Got my guy with me on a Monday evening, Mr. T.C. Hello, T.C. Hey, Sally. God, cooked a banger of a dinner tonight with my man, Goosey, my stew chef, Goosey, a little tomato tartar over a nice strip steak. It was a perfect way to end the Labor Day weekend. Nice long weekend, a quick run of show for you here tonight. We're going to break down.

Europe has made the Ryder Cup picks. that's going to take up the first segment of this show. We actually recorded a lengthy conversation. DJ Pi joined us late last week to talk about. We've been kind of punting on the Brian Roll app, PGA Tour transition stuff. We just brain dumped everything we could think of for over an hour that you're going to hear a little bit long later in the show. Around the world in golf, Tristan Lawrence wins the Omega European Masters.

Miranda Wang wins the FM Championship. Mike McCoy wins the U.S. senior amateur. But before we dive in, I want to talk about Titleist new T-Series irons lineup, specifically Titleist. Their fitting philosophy of the 3Ds, distance control, dispersion, and angle of descent. The job of a tidalist fitter is to optimize those three parameters for you, giving you the tools to hit consistent and predictable yardages, tighten your dispersion patterns and reach a high enough peak height to stop your ball on the green easier. Just as a spoiler, the vast majority of players hit the ball too low and could gain a lot with a steeper descent angle. and they got a whole new, what's it called the T250 launch spec?

Oh, yeah, the launch spec. Yeah, those go very, very high. It's a very unique iron. It is not a good fit for me, but it might be a good fit for you. It's why I should go see a fitter. The titleless new T-series irons are designed with those priorities in mind, launching the ball up in the air and delivering tons of consistency off the face. We've mentioned before how blendable they are.

That's a huge point of emphasis for the titleless team. Most golfers reach a break point in their set where they need a bigger chassis. and a little more help, whether you're blending between a T-100, T-150, T-250, T-250, T-3-50, or even a U-50-Longiron, which DJ's freaking out about. They all have a clean, uniform look. It makes it easy to take the performance gains of the mix set without wrestling with a big change in your profile or a feel in the middle of your bag. I go from T-150-5 iron to T-200, excuse me, T-2504 iron. I don't even notice the look.

Like, it looks like the same set of clubs. So, Solly, I was begging them. First of all, like I was, I think the turf interaction is a lot better

on these. I think the, just everything. I'm like, this is my favorite set of irons I've ever owned. And it's not particularly close, even.

And you can go back and check the tape. I don't think I said that about my previous T150s. They were good, but like these are great. I go from four through seven in the two 50s. And then I go 150 in

eight and nine. And then I go to my Vokie. 44 degree. It's a wild blended set. We got to get out and play some golf. It's so sick. Yeah. And I just like, yeah, I'm just like blown away at how much higher the four and five iron

go. It's incredible. You can go to tidalist.com to find a fitting near you and experience the performance that has made Titleist the most played iron on the PGA tour for 12 seasons in a row. This episode also brought to you by our friends at Woop, the official fitness wearable of the PGA and LPGA tour. The all new Woop is here. It's the only wearable that turns your health and fitness data into personalized guidance.

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I had 19 green days and 12 yellow days, no red August. That was some conscious decisions I made to make sure my body is recovering. And you can get a ton of personalized insight like that. If you go to join.wop.com slash NLU to get a free month on us, start optimizing your life on and off the golf course. I feel so much better. Just making a few life changes. And that's been reflected in the whoop. So thank you to that.

So any secrets you want to share, Sally? I mean, a little less alcohol, you know, a little night, I have a little nighttime, you know, a little beverage I drink. I'm not going to give a free ad away here that helps me sleep really well. I'm just going to bed earlier. Like, it's not that complicated. It's really not. So Europe has made their picks, T.C. your squad is complete.

The automatic qualifiers for Europe were Roy McElroy, Justin Rose, Teryl Hatt, and Tommy Fleetwood, Robert McIntyre, and Rasmus Hoygard, the captain selections, John Rom, 6, 3 and 3 in his Rider Cup career, Scep Straka 1 and 2, Victor Hovlin, 3, 4, and 3, Ludwig Oberg, 2, and 2, Matt Fitzpatrick, 1 and 7, Shane Lowry, 2, 3, and 1. four of these six captain selections have losing records in the Ryder Cup, but it does not matter, T.C. It does not because the Boys Club is back here.

11 of the 12 players returning to the Ryder Cup. And the 12th is just a replacement to win for the other Hoygard. What's your reaction? I don't think you, I recall you reading out the records and CVs of all the... We can do that for the... We were just in shock on the U.S. side, I think, earlier this. week, but I'm happy to read those off if you like me to. Well, you know, I think, you know, I'm not sure when continuity and experience off of a winning

team turned into a bad thing, especially one with as good of a camaraderie and joie as this team. You didn't do that with Rome, even though it was way less continuity with that. You didn't do the boys club thing back then? No way. I mean, it's the same captain even now, too. So it's not like you're starting. and this is a competent captain and all of that so yeah no i i don't know i'm all for it i think

it's it's stock but it's very uh you know it's very much like if if it's not broke don't fix it i don't think matt wallis had a god at getting on as well as he's played i think he's played quite well harry hall uh hope to see him at a dare manner uh marco peng the uh the up-and-comer there I hope to see both the Hoygard brothers, all sorts of other Danes, Rasmus, near guard Peterson. And then really, I just, you know, I'd like to see Christopher Ritan and, you know, some of the young Spaniards as well at Adair. I think this will be kind of the last ride for some of these guys on the European team. But overall, I'm stoked, man. I think it's going to be a really, really, you know, just a lot of continuity there.

I know SEP hasn't played well lately. I think he's got some stuff going on on the home front and I imagine he'll be ready to rock if they picked him. So, you know, just poorly time with BMW and tour championship. And I think he'll be back in action. I mean, Sally, I'll ask you. I think the, you know, for Napa, the early commit list, Xander's not even committed yet.

It's the anniversary of, yeah, it's the two year anniversary of Cantley's Bachelor party. Like you expect him to, you know, be there and playing golf. No, absolutely. I don't know what the, what the story is there. I imagine. And they all just seemed so, so happy to be there on the Zoom call. Oh, I know. That, see, that's, Europe's already won up. You see, I read all about it on social media.

I went back and, because Europe does, all the Europe fans do this every year, just about how much they win the Ryder Cup before it events. I went back and found a bunch of stuff from Whistling Straits. And listen, let's not get all too swept up in just because they're smiling on the Zoom. Doesn't mean they're going to roll into Beth page and wipe the floor with everyone. But I don't, I never said they're going to wipe. with anybody i just said i feel very very comfortable and and uh at ease with where we are right now humble and hungry sally i think so i'm obviously being facetious with with the boys club stuff i think

we've talked a lot about how you put it to i'm more of holding up a mirror for a lot of the narratives that have been applied on the u.s side not necessarily just you but just the people in general uh and that do not seem to carry those over on the european side like it is a um i mean it you You went way off the board on recent play to take Shane Lowry and to not take Harry Hall. Like, that's a decision. Like, we won't know how that plays out until the end. Like, that's not, you do not have to print off the strokes game list, as I've said, to fill out the team. Like, you want to pick the guys you think are going to give you the best chance to win.

And they think that is Shane Lowry. That one is open to criticism if it does not work out well. I think he has just been penciled in relatively strongly. And I just not positive. The resume backs it up. I mean, it's one thing to say, yeah, he has not been in good form, but he's got a great Ryder Cup record. That hasn't really been the case with Shane.

I think you're ignoring a lot of context with the Ryder Cup record. Like, he was paired up with a dead corpse in Rory, the one year. He ground out a really good tie. Like, he's been a good Ryder Cup player. You can't just say two and two, and he's. He's two and three, I think it was. and I mean he was he was like middle of the pack in Rome on home on home soil he was not strong you know at whistling straits that would have been my first guy off or my last guy on the

team personally I like I would have loved to see Noren I think Noren would be a great rider cover personally but I also you know I trust them seeing what they're seeing I don't think that I think if you do want to make a boys club accusation I don't think fits Tommy Ludwig, any of them, bit that. But I do think, like, Lowry probably is the one exception to that. Of their, they're giving a lot of credence to

locker room juice and familiarity with other guys and just the intangibles that he brings to the team. So, yeah, I really, I really don't have a problem with that. I think especially, I mean, Fitz, you know, very poor Rider Cup record, but, like, has played, he's been one of the best European players over the entire summer.

Like, he rounded into form. the golf course profile should not be an issue with his kind of longer he's not a bomber now but he's not no longer a short knocker which you know would have been something that worked against him you know kind of going up into this if he was a question mark but i think things fell into place very very easily and i can honestly see the case against not taking harry hall like he is a strokes game darling but it's it's almost entirely with short game and as we covered last week on the united states side of it like this is a like the match play parts get decided i know people think it gets decided on the green if you've remembered my stat from wednesday was europe one night cleared cleared the u s by 19 and a half shots in rome and 17 of them were from ball striking right so if if he you know he's stuff in the stat sheet on the putting green that might not necessarily be the best fit if he's not a great ball striker um you know come to rome and on a longer golf course so i i can see why you do it i do but i do enjoy having fun with you on some of these and don't think i won't be you know doing that way

and just like crazy. If the U.S. goes up 6-2 with Harry Hall sitting in home, I mean, that would have been the difference maker right there. A week on, how do you feel about your squad? I feel really good about the captain's picks. My gun-shy nature was, I felt really good about the captain's picks in 2023. I felt really good about it for the last four years, like four goes around. And it's worked out well in one of those.

one of those last three so it is a um you know when you put the whole team all together you remember like you know okay jj spawn automatic okay automatic qualifier okay okay okay like he could be really good but okay that's one thing harris english you know a couple really good events this year but it wasn't like the strongest year uh you know from beginning to end off of it i like yeah i'm not i'm not going into this one wildly cocky like i have with some of the previous ones okay i i think the u.s still should win. I think we got a clearer picture of what Keegan is like as a captain. And I liked that answer, you know, more than I did come Wednesday morning when I woke up, because I kind of thought they were really, really bagging this thing. And maybe they still are,

but I was left a little more hope of like, no, okay, he hasn't, you know, he decided a while ago he wasn't going to pick himself. He was just totally toying with the media. I don't know what you gained by that. That still seems kind of silly to me, but. I still don't buy that either. That's also fair. It might not have been a true, a true representation of how things have gone. But what do you, what are you anticipating on the pairing front with,

with what we're seeing out of Europe? I mean, it's the same squad back. It's a different golf course, right? I would think Edward of Mal and I, if he was sitting here with us right now, would say we're going to run the simulations. We're going to take Rory's driving and we're going to lay it next to so-and-so's iron play

and see what that gives us on strokes gain. That might give us a different. answer at Beth Page, or it might be the same pairings. What are you, if you had to pick the opening eight guys that are going out in foursums in that first session, putting you on the spot with this one, what would you predict? Oh, man, I don't even like, like, foursums or four ball. I think I'd like to see some different combos, whether that's like a Hovland and Lowry together or, you know, Ludwig.

I think Ludwig and Tommy played together once last time. I'd love to see Ludvick and Tommy together, just, you know, kind of thunder and lightning there. Um, by the way, do you realize Tommy shot in the 60s all 12 rounds in the playoffs? It's pretty absurd. Uh, it was Scotty's 14th straight top eight finish. I just had to get those two things out. That's been rattling around in my brain for the last week.

But of course, data golf's got a great new tool to a player history tool. Uh, Ludwig played all three sessions with Victor Hoffland and they went two and one, uh, two and own foursums. So I would, I would think that's probably a likely foursomes pairing. Um, and then does that put, Tommy and Rory together out in a session as well for fours. Yeah, I think the, like, I'm curious to see Rasmus. Like, I think it's cool that Rasmus was driving a cart around last time cheering on his twin

brother. And this time he's, he's in the mix and his brother's in that, like that hunger and that enthusiasm and seeing it from the outside in and being that close to it, I think is a really cool thing. Very curious to see what to do with Fitz. I think Fitz is a much different player, even than. then I would say you know 2023 I feel like he's improved uh he kind of had that downturn there for a year and a half or so and he's he seems to be really you know he fought his way

back over the last four six months um yeah I mean you know pairings wise like it's just I don't know it's too early for me to say it's uh I think sep I think sep's pretty malleable I think sep would be good with you know I mean he drives are pretty straight and he's he's very good iron player great putter i i would say he's pretty malleable like you've got some chess pieces like i feel like lowry would would probably be pretty good with with just about anybody uh also lowry may only play two or three rounds you know so lowry and set played both for some sessions last time around so the the teams where i i think i'm just looking this up in the spot but i think it went exactly they had the same groupings for foursum last time which was rome hatton together

Rory and Tommy together and Ludwig and Hovlin together and then also Lowry and Sep together in both foursome sessions. I would guess the first three of those is most certainly what we're going to see. Not most certainly. I don't know, but that would be my guess for that. But I would be surprised if Lowry and Sep

were paired together on a long golf course like Beth Page. I would think, I don't know which one of those two, but I think you're probably only taking one of those guys. And I don't know if it's Erasmus situation or probably putting a longer hitter if you're playing one of those two would be my guess as right now. I think Rasmus, to me,

feels like a good greed. Like, I wish you had Rasmus and Nikolai personally. I feel like they'd both be really good fits for this golf course and just, you know, a couple good dice rolls. Yeah, overall, I mean, I don't know.

I just think Tommy's a better player than he's ever been. We'll see which Rory shows up based on his proclamations at the end of the last rider cup. I can't imagine he'll show up at all unprepared um which if we're being honest that was a you know just kind of a me second half of the year for rory right he's not looking like an unbeatable guy but um you and rory's just been around so many rider cups now to this point i mean he's had some stinkers he's

had some major clunkers in rider cups uh and he's had some obviously massively triumphant moments in there and it's it is just kind of i'd be surprised if he if he showed up and gave us a clunker again especially without the comments he made after the last one but we've I mean, we saw it at Wissing Straits, but he's a different player than Wissing Straits also. I think this is a massive bucket list thing for him. It seems like that's the kind of thing that gets him up, right? It is, you know, like, I mean, even certain majors this year, he didn't really show up fully engaged. But he said, like, I think one of the most important, or, you know, impressive things in all of sports right now is to win an away Rider Cup.

And I totally agree. And I imagine he wanted to get out of the playoffs. like BMW Tour Championship, all of that, pack it up, go rest up for a little bit, and then get into, you know, grind mode for, you know, a good, good two or three weeks here in the lead up. So, I mean, we'll see all the Europeans at, at BMW, PGA, at Wentworth, with the exception of, are Hatton and Rahm in the field there?

That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that. Because I feel like Hatton's played really good golf this year. I don't think he's I don't think he's a concern if anything I think Rom might be a little bit of a wild card you know he's

he's played better than he had you know than he did I think beginning of the year but he just seems like he's not getting the dubs and still an above average player but I don't know by quite the same margin they are listed in the field on the both Hatton and

I don't think SEP is listed in the field right now but you know I'm sure he'll turn up in Napa or he'll get himself ready. This is a different ask though for, I mean, I know that's, you know, it's a massive event on the DP World Tour calendar, but it's a different ask this go around to ask players to go to Europe and then come back to the States, right? It was a very easy ask after the Tour Championship and everything

to have them come over and play a fair amount in Europe leading up to the Ryder Cup in Italy. So it proved to be a very good tune. up and they obviously came in very sharp and came right off the bus and started playing great as a Friday morning. But not that these guys are not used to traveling like that. It is just kind of a different, I don't think it's necessarily the massive advantage to have the European events in between Tour championship and this that it was in 2023.

I agree. Yeah. Yeah, Matt Wallace breaking down in tears. I don't know. I know we're not always spot on with projecting who's going to be on this team, but I don't think we talk about that guy making the team at all this year like and he's played really good golf

for the last few months like I don't know Matt Wallace is one of those guys where I really want to like Matt Wallace he seems like he cares deeply and he works his ass off and everything but yeah it just seems like that's not a substitute for like all right like you didn't know the team

um I mean yeah it again this is not the end all be all like strokes gained all that stuff but you got to If you want to beat down the door, you've got to play to a certain level to get somebody's attention. And like, I mean, Thomas Peters, have we even mentioned that guy's name? He has played better golf than Matt Wall, Sammy Valamaki, Victor Perez, Aaron. There's just a ton of guys that you take even above him as far as playing good golf on top of not being liked by a lot of the other guys.

Even if he won at Cron, I still don't think he's on the team. No, no, no, no, no. That does not change anything. He finished second, but like winning it would not change the picture at all. So that was a little bit curious, curious reaction. But anything else on the Ryder Cup front? Not really. I think just, you know, like I almost have to go into like, you know, slow my role a little bit.

I need to marinate a little bit for the Ryder Cup and just, you know, like I'm stoked to see Patton against the New York fans. But also, as we've said a little bit, like I don't know if it's going to be all that many New York fans. It's going to be a big corporate retreat, I think, which honestly, it might be good for everybody. I don't know if we needed to have the full-on New York experience. I will say I caught a little bit of a – NBC is debuting a docu-series covering the Ryder Cup. I believe it starts this coming Sunday, as you're listening to this. I watched a bit of the screener, and it had me hooked. It was like just a lot of good history stuff.

I think it's a three-part series. I've only, again, seen like, the first 10 minutes or so of it, but it's like some history stuff. and I just love seeing all the old uniforms and all the classic moments and all the belfry stuff as bad as the belfry is. All the highlights there are so fascinated to watch. There's somebody great, you know,

triumphant moments, so many chokes. Like it's just such a unique history with all those events. I think the modern Rider Cup is a little, is quite dull compared to like the back in the day when this event was really close and it was two tours going head to head more so than it is all these people that just live in Florida.

For as, like, offended as we are by the Belfry, like, it's not any different than Hazeltine. No. There's a good stage, too. It was a good stage for match play and they good crazy crowds out there and all that stuff. So other notes, I had, Miles Russell, local jacks kid here. He won the junior players here. Charlie Woods made an ace as well, just down the street here. But just that's somebody's whose progress we've been tracking somewhat closely.

You know, he was a quarter finalist, I believe, that the, or, Yeah, mid the final eight, whatever that is. Is that quarterfinals? Yeah, quarterfinals at the U.S. Amateur a couple weeks ago and then goes on to win the junior players. So congrats to Miles. Yeah, I think Charlie, he's got his same genetic tendencies as his dad as far as belt wearing.

It's just incapable of centering a belt. I think it looked way too big for him. I thought that was just, you know, must kind of run in the jeans. I don't think otherwise. Yeah. Cabalua. Yeah, there was a big water kerfuffle over at Coppelua. It sounds like the Maui, a pineapple land management. It's like a big landowner on Maui and I think owns the watershed is not properly maintaining, allegedly not properly maintaining some of the mechanisms that they use to supply water to the golf course on the plantation course and the bay course. So it sounds like the grass is just straight up. dying. They've closed it for the next few months in order to try to save it so they can have the century there in January. That's, that's bleak. So I know you were running around this weekend. I actually caught quite a bit of the FM championship up at TBC Boston on the LPGA.

Very good leaderboard. And I didn't realize Miranda Wang was such a like fan favorite. I guess she She'd been a friend of Rosangs and a few other players out there and just a very popular winner amongst her peers. But finished one ahead of Gino. Gino played great, I mean, four rounds in the 60s. Wang had a nice cushion heading into Sunday. But really good leaderboard, Say Young Kim. Andrea Lee finished four back.

Rose finished five back, kind of really separated. The more I, Sally, the more I watch golf at TPC Boston, I kind of miss it. That was a nice fall event, man. I liked that one. Gilhance is a cock, like all that stuff. That was from Luke Donald and all that stuff. Let the redo that 18th career.

That was a fun of it. J.T. played out of the wrong fairway. There was a, there was some, there was some highlights of that one. Yeah, I feel like, you know, like Horshow won there. It always just seemed like it identified good ball strikers. Like you couldn't fake your way around there. And it was even just, you know, going down to the top 20,

like Matt on Sagstrom played. well, Brooke Henderson played well, Lottie Wode, Minjee, like, it's kind of ball strikers golf course. So glad that events on the schedule. That's a, that's a very good spot on the calendar for the LPGA. I feel like I should clarify in case you don't remember that story. That was a leaked DM that Luke Donald had about the redesign 18th Green. He tweeted it, right? No, he thought it was a DM and he tweeted it.

He accidentally tweeted it, yeah. Just in case that was a solid decade. LD, I mean, Sala, you can chalk that one up to the list of, you know, things that you're antagonizing the European team about, right? Oh, I do miss that golf course. That's a good shout. I'm trying to think what else. Scotty and Rory are going to headline a December team golf event.

It's going to change the game. Yeah, it's, I think that's a Trump international down in Jupiter area. Sounds like it's going to be a skills competition. sort of thing, so we'll, you know, we'll, we'll, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we will, we'll, we will, we'll, we'll, we will, it's both the facial hair and the Oakley eagle shirt. It was just epic. Brad Faxon said on Toronto radio that the PGA tour contacted NBC on Saturday, the tour championship and told them that they were talking too much about the Ryder Cup on their broadcast. I mean, I believe that. I feel like the tour may, may contact you until you're, you're talking too much about the Ryder Cup on this year podcast.

Well, believe it or not, we do not have official relationship with the PGA tour. And that, that phone line, I don't believe, is open to, uh, to criticisms like that. Now, yeah, I hate bending over backwards to defend the tour. I mean, it's not that, you know, they're talking about an event that's not theirs and, you know, covering their tour championship. I know they got some work to do on the Tour Championship. I know that one seems reasonable, T.C. To pick up the phone and be like, guys, can we, can we hone in on this event a little bit more?

I think they were plenty honed in on the Tour Championship. Well, but here's what I won't let NBC off the hook on is the Russian nesting doll of self-promotion. Like, they're promoting it because they have the Rider Cup. If CBS had the Riter Cup, NBC would not be doing that. It's the same thing with the Olympics or something like that. So that's where that's the only. you know, I wouldn't, I'll somewhat allow that, I guess, because, yeah, they're getting a little carried away with it, too. And you should pick him, he's going to pick himself. I think he should pick himself. I mean, nuclear golf said he was going to pick himself.

They did a whole breaking, breaking news video. Oh, no. Some journalism licenses over at nuclear golf are going to be suspended, unfortunately, over that. Augusta National and the R&A teaming up to award some national opens, some guaranteed, spots in these majors. Scottish Open, which was already guaranteed via the PGA Tour co-s sanctioning, but Spanish Open, Japan Open, Hong Kong Open, Australian Open Champion, South African Open Champion. So I'd love to see Argentina break through something of that nature. And the fall events will no longer be getting exemptions into the Masters. The winners will not be getting those. I think that is a very fair redistribution of those.

exemptions into international opens around the world and probably propping up fields in those events, you know, for guys that are right on that bubble, top 50 and things like that, they might go travel to these events to go pursue that. I think that's a good thing for the world of golf. Huff scene for our hitters at the Vodontas, Mexico. Viganta World Mexico Open. Hate that. Like, I imagine the Argentina Open is not getting it just because that's a corned ferry tour event.

I would imagine so. also yeah that event now going to the fall and being a Mexico Open that's not a national open no exception for that one your guy Ben Griffin he was at the grocery store buying some Johnny pops that was that was a cool video I love seeing that didn't love seeing Mike Sposa in the was it the semis or did he make the finals

I didn't make the finals I don't think but he was I think he was in the semis of the US 174 PGA tour starts, pro golf starts. I thought it was more than that, wasn't it? No, no, they, they messed up the graphic. It said 11774, like 1740 or something. Before like, wait, he would have had to play. Wait, what?

It's like more than Jayhaws. Yeah, for like 45 years, you know. But yeah, what's your stance on, on reinstated AM stuff? I just don't, I don't know what. I don't know what we're doing with these championships. I don't know what an amateur is anymore. And I get that, like, especially with NIL stuff, that becomes a more confusing thing.

But I just, I don't think you should get your AM status reinstated ever. Like, if you've ever felt you were good enough at golf to dedicate yourself to it professionally. Like you've, there's no other job you're working like you were trying to make money off the game of golf by your results. Like that should be. Not by being a teaching pro. You're saying. And teaching pro, you should be able to get. Yeah, that's that, yeah, like playing in competitive events.

Maybe there's like a minimum dollar threshold. That's my thing. Like, I think if you've, if you've held a card for more than like two or three seasons and just, and didn't just have a cup of coffee after a college or something like that, like, I think there should be like, like, hey, you made 50 cuts or something like that or 30 cuts, you know. Yeah, like I played, I played an event. I've told the story before, but I played an event with a guy.

And, I mean, he was really, really nice player. And I walked out, you know, you know, said something to somebody's like, yeah, like, that guy can, he can really hit it. He was like, oh, yeah. I mean, he played the corn fairy tour for like four years. Like, well, fuck, man. Like, why are we playing in the same tournament? I just don't. And they're way too liberal giving this stuff away.

Like, it, if you're not even making guys wait anymore. I know. It's absurd. Like, I feel bad. I'm a bad example, but I'll apply it here to, like, Justin Huber has his amateur status back. I've played a lot of golf with that guy. We should not be playing in the same golf tournament ever, ever. Like, he's so much better.

Like, I think the USGA needs to create a true US midam. Like, you can't ever have been a pro. And then make a former pro division if you want to. Like, make a separate championship division. Like, it just, the fact that especially you can get into the masters by giving up your pro status and playing in like USGA, a USGA events, it's just, I don't know. I don't know what we're, what's, what's it? You're the best failed pro.

Is that the title, the accomplishment? What if they allowed, all right, if you want to get your AM status back, you're allowed to play in the US AM, but you can't play in the mid-am or the senior. That would make, but you can play in the M as long as you want. Sure. You know,

or I mean, as long as you qualify. Yeah, yeah. Like, be our guest, right? Yeah. Better than, that's better than this because it just,

it kind of, it kind of ruins it. And it's not just like, it's not like sour graves. Oh, these guys are so good. It's legitimately like, Well, these guys like hone, like honed their craft.

Right. Nonstop for years and years and years upon. And then and then we're in the pressure cooker of pro golf, you know. Right. Which, yeah, like create a stage for those guys to compete, like, you know, but I don't know. That's. Yeah. Well, props to Mike McCoy.

He's first, first champion of mid-aam and the U.S. senior am. And that's not who we're talking about here. Like he is, is not been a professional. professional golfer. He's had a job for a long time. Real congrats to Mr. McCoy. Also, Brendan Quinn had a really fun piece on the Lido, of course. I don't know if you saw that.

That was in The Athletic this week. And then, yeah, otherwise, reading-wise, this kind of, you know, goes in with our topic of today's podcast. But Aiman had a great piece in Golf Week about previous you know, anti-trust, you know, anti-competitive litigation being lobbed at some of the other tours, like the ATP tour, and their defense was, this is good for the players,

or sorry, good for the fans. And so him, he basically said the PGA tour is about to be legally forced to prioritize fans over players, which is crazy to just think of that. Like, legally they have to. what we've been waiting for man it's what we've been waiting for well I'd say without any further delay let's get to our main topic here but before we do that why don't you give us a give a shout to our friends at Holderness

and Bourne oh my gosh sally uh it's almost it's September 1st today it is you know what that is it was in the 70s today here in Florida to the point we can wear don't get fake down don't get fake down it's all I know we have you know a month and a half two months more of of 90 degrees weather. The Hamilton hoodie, super lightweight and heathered colors. I know that's a, that's a personal favorite of yours. I would say the Ivy Color Way. I've been wearing that, especially I've got that in the McDonald's. It's like this kind of dusty green, dusty baited, like dark green. It's cool. That's been a really, really hot seller. The cotton styles are awesome, especially for the fall.

I think those play really, really well. Super classic. And then the shorts, I always call it the shorts. like, that's what I wear on the golf course. And great off the golf course as well. They're just really, really good, really good shirts. They got the cords now too. So NLU10 at HBGolf.com for 10% off your first order. And this and our trap draw code are the only ones on the market for H&B. And I think they're our longest running partnership on the apparel side.

Like we've been stocking their stuff in our pro shop since like literally 20, 2015 or 2016. like the first season they were around. So it's crazy. And it just gets a little bit better every season. I would also call out the forest shirt. It's like these light, like kind of trees, little trees. They've got it in Dune, which is like a tan. They've got it in that aforementioned Ivy Color,

Andover, which is like a blue and then Bedford, which is a light blue. So. NLU10, HBGolf.com for 10% off your first order. All right. Let's bring in the pie man. all right guys shifting gears dj here jumping in because this is a conversation i think a lot of us have wanted to have for uh for a couple weeks here a lot of shakeups going on at the pga tour we saw brian rollap speaking you know kind of addressing the public in a big way for the first time

back at the tour championship uh talking about onboarding as the new CEO of the pga tour a lot of stuff to get into because I think he said a lot of interesting stuff. I think he's going to do a lot of interesting stuff. And maybe we can kind of get our arms around what some of that might be. A little table setting, a little FAQ for the people who is Brian Roelap? Great question. Great question. Like I mentioned, he's a new CEO of the PJ Tour. He's coming over from the National Football League, potential ball knower, T.C. We don't know about his. He's certified ball there, but definitely in and around the world of ball for the last 20 years. the chief media and business officer of the league.

The next question, a lot of people are probably asking very rightfully, T.C., probably loudest here. What's the difference between CEO and commissioner? What does this mean for Jay Monaghan? Jay Monaghan's in the process right now, as far as we know, of transitioning all of his day-to-day duties to roll-ap. Jay's tenure is going to probably conclude after his contract expires, which is not until the end of the 2026 season. I don't know if we're going to talk a ton of this. I think from everything we've heard, I think, I think Jay's going to get that golden parachute at the end of this year. I don't think they're going to need an 18 month.

That's a long time. You know, ramp up period for Rollap. I think he's like, all right, you know what? I've been in the job 30 days. I think I got it. That kind of feels a little bit of a like, I'm down the road if you need me sort of thing. I don't know if you need me at the office every day until the end of 2026. But as far as what Roelapp said, I mean, I know we talked about this on the

pod he left a very good impression for for pretty much you know i think universally like a lot of a lot of energy a lot of people you know excited about some potential change a couple specific things he said that i wanted to pull out that i really liked quote i said when i took the job i would take it with a clean sheet of paper and that is still true my fan letter on day one i said we're going to honor tradition but we're not going to be overly bound by it now we're going to start turning that blank sheet of paper into action with an idea to aggressively build on the foundation that we have sounds like that's already already going on tc we're going to get into this in a second but uh josh carpenter piece about some some uh you know kind of optional uh early retirement

stuff going on the tour i think they're shaking stuff up uh already going and shaking the trees over at the global home another quote that i know we've we've all kind of gotten a good kick out of look the sports business is not that complicated you get the product right you get the right partners and your fans will reward you with their time because they're telling you it's good and they want more of it. And then the commercial and the business part will take care of itself. Love that.

Love hearing that. He continues. And then you have to just constantly innovate. I think if there's anything I learned at the NFL, it's that. We did not sit still. We changed the rules every March. We changed the kickoff rule.

That's what I mean by honoring tradition, but not being bound by it. I think that level of innovation is what we are going to do here. Last thing for me, and then I will turn it over to you guys. He also announced a nine-person future competition committee, a little bit of an adventure, Avengers for fixing pro golf here.

That is going to be headed by Tiger Woods, Eldrick Taunt Woods, committee leader. Also on the committee. Patrick Cantlay, Adam Scott, Camila Vajgas, Mav McNeely, Keith Mitchell, Joe Gorder, who you guys mentioned a couple weeks ago, might have all the juice. A lot of, you know, he's sitting on a lot of boards right now. John Henry from Red Sox and Fenway Sports fame and Theo Epstein, the guy who fixed baseball,

the guy who won the World Series, all of those things. The committee is aiming to explore how to maximize three things according to our guy, Roll app, parody, simplicity, making the game and its playoffs and its finals and its season long,

this, that, and the other thing, easy to understand, and scarcity. How many events do we have Do they feel like big events when we have them? Sorry, did I miss anything slash anything else as far as initial impressions? No, but I think it is funny. I think there was the praise for Rolap was so universal that that became kind of a theme on Twitter. Porath, I was loved when he does this.

Everybody tweeting about Rolap like he's like Magic Johnson right now. And I got a quick, funny story. And again, I was like, we're probably are guilty of that. I think it's justified for some reasons we're going to get into. but funny story notes of the tour championship i'm talking to a long time veteran of the golf industry and you know i'm asking like what you think of the rollout thing like pretty impressive right he's like he kind of laughs he was like you know what like the last time this happened like there was a year where monahan was under tim finchum and they went around to all the sponsors and you know

introduced him and introduced the relationship and you know as it went along everybody just mona what a great guy like unbelievable guy what a great guy tim finchum's eventually commented and said I've never seen somebody so universally praised everywhere we go. And he just found that a bit ironic here as Monaghan will be exiting. I will say, I will say that everybody, it's not that I don't think we're hearing that rollout is such a nice guy or what a great guy. It's universally like that guy is fucking smart. He's serious about theirs too.

He means and he means what he says what he says. and he thinks on his feet. And I think that's the differentiation a little bit, right? And I think framing, yeah, then framing some of this as well. I mean, obviously there was the public press conference that, you know, everyone got a taste of what he's like and what he's about. But we also spent maybe 30 minutes with him in the creator council meeting the day before the press conference.

And like, it was, it was, you know, kind of a just a, a Q&A session. I got the chance to pepper him with a bunch of questions. and I was just, again, really impressed by him, and we're not going to go shot for shot about what that meeting was about. But I walked away, I made the comment to you guys afterwards. It was like somebody took 10 years of our podcast and put it in chat, GPT,

and ask somebody to make a summary of, like, how you would go about proposing changes to the structure of PGA tour golf, because that's kind of what it sounded like. I was ready to run through a wall after it. I was, again, without even being prompted on it, bringing up four to five of the major issues, I see with the PGA tour and like making those a priority to be addressed and just being serious

about it and being somewhat dismissive like, you know, rather dismissive about certain things of how things have been done, right? The models that are in place and, you know, the competitive structure and all of those things to the point where like he, I believe him and I'm ready to be a sucker on this, but I'm also ready to believe him and that he's going to try his best to do all this stuff. I think there's a little bit of, uh, you know, I don't want to say naivete about getting this stuff through. I think he knows the challenge is going to be there and getting stuff through with the structure. But if there's going to be somebody that's going to break things down to the studs and rebuilt it, I think this is the dude. Yeah, it's funny. It's funny. I agree with that,

all of that. Uh, it's funny when an outsider quote unquote does come in and you start to all these things that were, we're sacred cows beforehand. It's just like we could never touch that because of it's always been that way. When you have to explain it to somebody who's an outsider, it's like, yeah, it does sound pretty stupid, actually. Now, yeah, maybe we could do that, that differently. And I just, I feel like, you know, there's going to be a lot of, a lot of those things, which is kind of funny. But, yeah, I think from Monaghan, just like my two cents here, I think Monaghan was very much, and like, he came from within the golf industry with Fenway Sports Group. And for that, what, I and just, or one of the agencies.

that they kind of rolled up into that and very much like the continuity play, the safe play and I think with Fincham you know it was just kind of like hey this is this is my trusted lieutenant this is my the guy that's just going to it's going to be a smooth transition and things

are going to be exactly as they have been right and that was that was the hope and now it's like his mandate is completely different of you know no like they're we need full scale change this thing's gotten so complacent And because I think there was a time after, you know, we thought 20, I think what, Monaghan took over 2016, 2017, and he'd already been, you know, deputy commissioner. Before that, he was, you know,

in charge of the players and all of that. And it was just these little, these small incremental changes or improvements. And I think at some point, we wanted to see, hey, you know what, like, and I think we started hearing, hey, 2020, we're going to get a new TV deal. And everything's going to to change or the schedule is going to look a lot of different. And of course, COVID happens. But COVID, in hindsight, could have and should have been a, you know, gasoline a little bit to, you know, use to like change things up and kind of light of fire. And they really, you know, kind of frid that away as far as just changing the makeup of the organization and stuff. And I, you know, I know they were trying to keep the lights on and all of that. But like it just felt like after a year or two of Monaghan on

the job it's like all right cool like he's going to put his fingerprint on this thing and we're going to feel like there's new leadership here and it felt like the exact it was like Tim Fincham 2.0 but without the power of Tim Finchum and the in the you know that kind of iron fist and I know rollout's going to find I'm sure there's all sorts of bodies buried in the yard as far you know figurative bodies in the yard not not literal yeah like you know I mean shit you saw it last week with the shoe pack reporting of you know who knows how how literal this is of granting east lake the tour championship in perpetuity right or or stuff like that and it's but like i like i think rolapp said something really interesting i don't know if it was in his presser in that meeting

like hey like at some point all of these leagues were yeah essentially trade organizations or you know like they were they were you know just to represent their members and at some point they've all taken the jump from that to global sports media sports business entities and i think the challenges from other leagues like through afl NFL NFL usFL um you know aBA yeah yeah yeah so i think there's you know so it's like hey this is golf's time to do that and i think you know and shit the NBA you're seeing it right now with even they're being challenged globally by Maverick and LeBron and, you know, there's the EuroLeague that they're trying to integrate in and all of that stuff. So I think, you know, we'll see what happens with DP World

Tour and, you know, and live, that's a separate conversation. But I think overall it just seems like this is a guy that he's been dealing with 32 billionaires with like the biggest egos on the planet over the last, you know, 15, 20 years. And he's rocked. Roger Goodell is kind of like the way that Roger Goodell has gotten a lot of stuff done. And this is the guy that focused on the product, like focused on Thursday, you know, Thursday night football, making that can't miss. NFL international stuff. Red zone. All like actual tangible improvements to stuff.

And I just, you know, you see it and you're like, man, that like that resume, there's a lot of action. And I think we're already seeing it with, I think today is his 30th day on the job. And they had an all hands meeting this morning or a lot. I think it was yesterday or this morning. We're recording this part of the conversation on Thursday, August 28th, for the record, yeah. Tiger showed up, gave him his full backing and said, no, like, this is, I trust this guy implicitly to carry through on what he's been mandated to do. And I think that, you know, change looks like personnel changes. Change looks like reallocation of resources, right?

Like, it's, you know, change, change is an easy. And it seems like they're doing it the right way. from a, you know, hey, they're not, they're not pushing anybody out the door, but they're saying, hey, there's going to be a lot of change here. And unless you're comfortable with that, like, I would suggest taking this, this sort of package. And, and they got to get new people in the door, right? They got to find the people who are going to build the tour for the future here. But I think, like, you know, I think some people were disappointed with the 2026 schedule. I think that's, like, unrealistic to think that he's going to be able to do anything, uh,

two weeks into the job on something. And I think that's one of the challenges I think overall of like all of these, I think he's going to do a much better job of lining stuff up to end in the same dates or, you know, same year and batch everything so that, you know, media rights wise and tournament sponsorship wise and all of that stuff. This stuff is all in concert and on the same cadence and everything. But like overall, it seems like he's talked to. I don't know, 20, 30% of the guys on tour in a pretty deep, meaningful, thoughtful way and

gotten their feedback. And it sounds like meritocracy is a big thing as well. So, you know, hopefully we see some more cuts come back or just, you know, less of that signature feel. Or if we are going to do the signature stuff, make those feel differentiated. But also, you know, like he's just hit the ground running I'm really really impressed with like hey there's we are going to rethink everything everything is on the table and there's some good stuff there already and we're going to go with that so fired up guys well I'm fired up too I want to I want to almost take a step back here because I think step two is like lots of change coming get ready get ready we got all kinds of changes we're going to change everything everything's on the table is that change

step one is like what are what's the goal what is like what are we actually what's wrong here and what's what's wrong is is one option or one question and then i think question two is like what's the goal what are we talking about like making pGA tour golf uh are we trying to become nfl 2.0 are we trying to make it a slightly above averagely watched niche sport are we trying to get more people playing the game are we trying to get like all of these things i know are probably true to some extent but sallie what do you when i ask you what what the goal of all this changes what do you think your response is i think you know kind of you back up into what are the biggest problems right now with the tour you know working from there i think the over commercialization

the project would be kind of top of the list for me right uh i think the lack of too many events still i think is an issue real quick when when you say over commercialization too many commercial interruptions when i'm watching the sport because i think there's two different themes there right there's over commercialization of are there too many sponsors or too much too much clutter um or or is it how they're commercializing it how because i would say i would say i don't care how you get your money in the door right just if it's going to greatly impact my viewing habits and my desire to watch your product i think that's a pretty big inhibitor right and i think that's totally agree we've been well documented on i think it you know i brought that up in the meeting

actually and and he was he kind of perked up at that as in like Like, yeah, I think this is actually one of the least commercialized products out there. And, you know, part of the conversation just went to like, hey, man, I think the players championship is broadcasted. Like, this is a serious event that's well worth my time. And like the week before at Bay Hill feels like I'm watching an infomercial a lot of the time. And like, I think those two should, if they're going to tell me these things are somewhat equal things, and I know the players in a special category, but like the signature events of the PGA tour need to feel like the players championship does, which is a big sporting event versus an infomerate. commercial. So that's a massive thing. And I think there's big steps to be made on the competitive product. I mean, we're in year whatever. The FedEx Cup, I think, is an adult now. I think it can

vote. It ends with the biggest poof you can imagine. I think that's a massive challenge. I don't have an easy answer. We've given a ton of ideas on what to do. But like, I think it, the challenges of like trying to end the season in the summer, you know, as not a lot of other sports leagues are, want that kind of moment to be your own. But, you know, you'd like, in theory, the PJ tour season to end at the players or to end with like your version of a Super Bowl. So I think a big thing you need to fix is how do you conclude this season with like something equal to the players or a new event or whatever it is called Tour Championship for all you want? But it's got to be rebranded. Like bring somebody in that does the Super Bowl, I think is probably a good first

step of that that understands kind of how you improve the competitive product. If we've got two tours, let's let's let's address that let's figure out what that looks like i don't think the same schedule needs to have the rocket classic on it and the masters and the players on it like i just think there's a championship series and i think there's a sub-series uh and i think there's a way that you can reconfigure how all that works and like the current structure we're looking at is a bolt-on on a bolt-on on a bolt-on like that's just how things have always been done and we're going to fantasize about what like redoing all this looks like and it's kind of hard to fantasize about it's a challenge.

So actually doing it, I recognize how great of a challenge it is, but you also just don't show up on your first day and like insist on how much significant change you're going to push through if you're not serious about it. And again, I know he's kind of aiming for this much knowing he's going to get this much in all likelihood.

But again, I guess I feel as good as possible to your point, TC, about Monaghan was brought in to keep things going the way they were. This guy is not brought in to keep things going how they were there's good things going on ratings have been good this past year you got some good solid stars a couple things he said i'm a little concerned about with the parity you know related comments and and things like that i think there's a lot of parody already right there is

there's maybe too much parody already uh and you know i don't want to take it to take it to take what he's saying too literally and kind of project what i think he means by that but uh you know i think it to your point dege it's not going to be the NFL it is not going to be like any team sports. It is a unique sport in that we do not, you and I love talking baseball because the decisions made internally within one single team are endlessly fascinating. And like the NFL can own get up every morning in May because of all of these personnel decisions that are endlessly fascinating, right? And golf is not like that. It's not. So it's not like you can just copy paste things into the most popular sports leagues and expect that to be the case. I don't think

it should expect to become the second most popular sports in the United States. But at the same time, people fucking love golf, man. They love golf and they love golf on YouTube. And I think professional golf has run the risk of like sliding back in priority when there's other options to consume golf. If you don't get like the competitive product and the commercial product. I would say non-major professional golf. Yeah, yes.

Don't get the professional product. competitive structure and the commercial product, the way it's presented on television, like really good. People are going to pass on on spending their time doing that and especially young people. So very long answer. I covered too much there, but like there's a lot that still needs addressed at the same time. Like it is the leading, it's got first, I don't know if this is technically first mover advantage, whatever it is. Like they've got a history. Like they have such a great floor built into this. They have the history of events. It's found on the same channels essentially. It's another topic but you know on NBC or CBS on weekends you flip it on and it's going to be

there like that's what props the whole thing up you can build from that core you know while tearing down some other things so a couple things on that front going back to like the goals question rather than the problems question is I agree with all the problems I think the goals everything you're saying points back to TV ratings I think is is number one like we're going to try to just spike TV ratings and get those to where they quote unquote should be which they've got a good head start like they're like they do but like my things are back on the upswing at least my question is whether there's an artificial my question is what the ceiling on that is and i think this is where we're going to find our first impasse is man in order to get a bunch more eyeball golf is wildly inaccessible like this is an oversimplification but part of the reason why people love golf is because of the reasons that all the other people hate golf right like people love that it's slow and like to play they love that the game is slow and contemplative and challenging and hard and complicated and you know it all like it's got a sense of history and like it you

need to have a lot of prerequisite knowledge and you got to know the rules and you like that's why golfers love golf a lot a lot of the reason and that's what keeps a lot of people from watching the game so it's like without wild figuring out how to bridge that gap I don't know how TV ratings just go 5x, you know, north of where they are now. So, like, again, maybe that's an oversimplication, but that's one thing. I think the other thing on TV wise, I would also push back or like, I think we got to start thinking about like eyeballs instead of TV ratings because I think here in the next five, six years, like it's going to be, you know, this is a guy that got Netflix involved in the NFL,

right or Amazon Prime for Thursday nights or like kind of eventizing some of these these games but you know I think some of it is like hey how do you you know PJ or app how do you get people watching something on that right or consuming it where you know meeting people wherever they are instead of just relying upon that CBS NBC because to a certain extent that that consumer is also you know some of them are dying right totally. Totally. That's a very good pushback. I totally agree because I think it also extends to the shoulder programming and the other stuff that's on YouTube and the other stuff that's like on golf channel or wherever it, you know, ends up. So yes, totally agree. The second goal I was going to say that we haven't really talked about yet is kind of the monopoly board game element of this. Like what other pieces are they going to pick up? Because right now, you know, famously the tour does not own any of the five biggest events in golf. They have, they're sitting on this war chest of somewhere between $1.5 and what, $3 billion of SSG money. It's like, what does that mean? What are they going to, where are they going to deploy that? What are they going to put that into? I got to, like said simply, I got to think one of his goals is spending that money, right?

And getting to a point where they can make some serious moves to try to, you know, just improve their standard. Because right now they're basically the organization that has to fund 90% of these guys earning. for a given year without owning any of the five biggest events without owning the majors the Rider Cup like but still it's like

no no no the players are coming to them constantly like you need to provide for us you need to provide for us and they don't have you know the the horses in the back on those biggest events where they could really maximize things the most so TC I want to throw this one to you

let's say you know you get you get five minutes with with to roll up here what what's the top priority for you where do you where do you think he should he should start um i think you start with i think you start with the product what is the product product is as simple as the venue they're like the course they're playing on how you set that course up uh you know how you do the build out around that course how you cover the golf tournament on tv all that like that's the product and and i think some of that comes back to

you know like some of this could be even rollback related right of like hey why why can't they play great venues well because most of them are too short now why are they too short because technology is out of control uh you know and various factors on that front and and so i think there's there's something to be said for like all right like maybe rethink the tour's position on that stuff of hey i think if you had more volatility even you know all right you want to want you want more parity or you want greatness to be able to separate like I think if anything like technology is actually neutered the difference between a great player and a very good player um like I you know I think at the end of the day it probably hurt tiger more than it hurt anybody else

you know and so I would say all right you know focus on the product there venues and schedule like go to the right places at the right times they go to the wrong places at the wrong times and they go to the right places at the wrong times, too. Like Pebble Beach, Riviera, those places. Like, I know the West Coast swing is sacred. Who says we need to play the West Coast swing in February? Why don't we play the West Coast swing in April or early May? Post-masters, golf swings in full effect.

You got more daylight courses are in better shape. You know, get people stoked for that. You move the Florida swing earlier maybe. Or especially if you're going to, oversee those courses anyway. How do you make this into a global product? I think a lot of this work has already been done of raking the old model a little bit of like, all right, there was two tours, even one of the WGCs, there were kind of two tours to begin with. They've just codified that a little bit more now with signature events and the way that the point structure works. How do you

that globally now? How do you, you know, Sally, you were talking about Rocket, right? Or John Deere, right? Like, those tournaments, they're great tournaments. And I don't think those should go anywhere. hey how do you make it like the whole key to the entire uh the you know the foundation of the entire tour was was the fact that rocket mortgage and uh you know Wells Fargo were the same on the same tier and now they've broken that cool like let's just stop trying to BS ourselves in the saying that that those two things are equal because they're not and I think then then you can say all right you know we're going to have this you know it's like ATP. We're going to have a ATP 500 tournament. We're going to have ATP 1,000. In the 500

tournaments, like maybe you make an opportunity to go to more places. Maybe some of those top tier corn ferry tour events in emerging markets like in Nashville or, you know, Portland or somewhere like that. Like maybe those tournaments turn into TGA tour events, right? And you, and you, you know, there's more of a, there's less of a delineation between corn, tour and PGA tour. I think the way that they're going to figure out how to do, you know, how to extract value or like they're going to play hardball with the majors to a certain extent with like, all right, you want our players for the PGA championship or the Ryder Cup or, you know, cool.

Like then, you know, you have to basically either give us an equity stake or, you know, and that's going to piss off traditionalists. It's not a great way of going about it from a relationship's perspective. But that's the leverage, right? That's the tool that they have in their arsenal for it. And I think you'll see that with, like you saw it a little bit with NFL and ESPN. NFL just did equity stake in ESPN. It's like, all right, cool.

Like, do you want to, do you want us to be invested in your success here? Or do you want us to just take you off the board and, you know, Netflix can outpid you guys all day? I think it's the same thing with the PGA championship, especially. I think the Masters, US Open Open Championship are more. insulated from that. But I think, you know, PGA Championship, it's like, all right, this is an under, A, it's an underrealized asset. I don't think it's run particularly well right now. I don't think they're going to the right places. And I don't think it has an identity. And then also, like, how do you make this, how do you move from the quad cities to being a truly global thing, like tennis or Formula One or, you know, something like that to where, you know, it's truly an event and it's truly a reflection of the place. And you do that, again, by going to the right cities or the right parts of the world at the right time as well. And I think I was stoked to see the R&A and Augusta National make that step with, you know,

national opens this week. It's like, all right, cool. How do you do you do that even more? How do you lean on, you know, how do you bring the Australian open into the fold? How do you reverse? And I know some of this is like, if Scotty Schaeffler and Jordan speak, don't want to travel internationally, cool. Like, that's, that's your right. But, like, you're a global, you know, you are the world number five player or the world number 12 player. You're expected to play worldwide.

And if you just want to hang out and play rank and file PGA tour events here at home, that's your choice. But, you know, at the end of the day, like, if you want to play against the best in the world more often, whether that's 14, 15, 18 times a year, like, you're going to have to travel outside the country and then you know i think then then you then you naturally have more eyeballs on everything because you're like you're bringing in a global audience you're bringing in global sponsors instead of tapping into you know somebody's uh north america corporate budget you're tapping into their worldwide marketing budget um you know it's like that's the reason some companies don't

don't work in golf it's so siloed between you know hey we're dp world tour sponsor or pGA sponsor or whatever. No, like we are a global sponsor of golf. So, um, I think, you know, a lot of this stuff, like I give the tour credit to a certain extent. I don't think Jay did it willingly, but I think over the last two, three years with SSG, I think they've been, I think SSG has been calling the shots as far as, hey, here's our commercial strategy. Um, I think that they've gotten ahead, like the studios thing is, is big time. I think having the wherewithal to own and produce the world feed and be able to do that now do i think they're doing a great job with it no or do i think that they're staffing tGA core live correctly or they're staffing like

some of the subjective things seem to be off as well um but you know i would say like man i would i would make a deal with the dp world tour and try to buy them uh and then i would try to i would try to develop some other venues as well, like whether that's, you know, from a land use perspective or, you know, bring a Chambers Bay into the fold or bring some West Coast venues into the fold because it's crazy. And then I would offload some of the other TPC network courses that, like, if you can't have a golf tournament at a TPC network course, like I, like I know it's, some of them are just licensed. Some of them were developed and built, purpose built to, PGA tour events and you can't even host a fucking PG, like, and some of these, you can't even host

Q school or you can't even host a corn fairy tour event. That's insane. Get it out of the network, simplify your business. I think, I think they're going to buy the Sawgrass Marriott. I think that's something I would do is, you see, the question was what was the first thing that you would do and you're down. Holy shit. Buy the Sawgrass. I would take control of your, I would take control of your T-sheet over TBC Sawgrass. I would rethink the President's Cup. in a big way, I would bring back a match play event. Like, there's stuff that you can do that, that shows, hey, we are looking out for traditionalists or we are looking out for the core fan.

You know, I would, but yeah, I mean, Sali, your turn. I mean, what would you be scheduled? I'm not following that. I'm not following that. Absolutely not. You left nothing for the rest of us. Absolutely nothing. Mr. Player, how are you this way?

I would just, I would say this would be like, just make the watching the PJ tour and enjoy. experience. Make it cinematic. Make it worth my time. Make it less of a chore. Improve, streamline the commercialization aspect of it. Make it feel like I'm watching a big sporting event. Low handheld cams, cinematic. Like this, I don't think this example like fixes everything, but the way the Mets broadcast baseball, it's a cinematic experience. And I'll flip it on from time to time just of like, you know, I was looking for what the right word is. It's, it's, you know, is it, I don't know what the right word is in terms of just like making it feel

experiential and feeling like I wish I was there or I feel like I'm there. There's kind of romanticism to it almost. Yeah, right? Like golf, the biggest, the biggest advantage I think golf has is that it goes to beautiful places outside. Like how I feel about Maui.

When Calpalu is on, especially when I lived in Chicago, it was just like this vicariousness to it of like, man, I wish I was there, or I kind of feel like I'm there and I'm transported into that world right now. And this is what I'm doing. Master's special.

Yes. That's the secret sauce. And I think Sally, too, like if you go to the, even pebble, if you go to pebble at a better time of the year and it's firmer or faster and the ball is on the ground. It's not raining and blowing. Or it's not raining or whatever. Like, there's more chances to be cinematic or there's more chances to tell a story. And I think the golf, frankly, is just more dramatic as well.

Well, I think there is something to that, right? That's where my initial pushback of like, I don't know, how much. How are they going to keep the traditionalists and bring in all these casual fans? Like, well, you just go to places that are beautiful to look at. And you make it a product that's beautiful to look at. And I think it's very relaxing. It's a very relaxing thing to watch. And I think people enjoy spending time on the couch or they would enjoy spending time on the couch watching it.

If it was something you could sink your teeth into and it was not a chore like you said, Sully. I think the only thing I agree with everything you guys have said, even the Sawgrass Marriott thing, T. I would say on my, top of my bullet point would be drilling down on, what you said, the two tours thing is like, man, we've been, we've been so stuck on this, like, how do we give all the best players? How do we funnel all the best players in the world, endless amounts of money without it feeling like we're just writing them a check and kind of bending over backwards to create all these technically competitive ways for them to get it?

But really, we're just trying to make them not leave for live. and it's just become this erector set that just doesn't make any sense and that's why I was so pumped to hear him say simplicity was one of the things that he was most excited about. I mean, we've talked about this a million times you know, the only real do or die stuff

I feel like you see used to be kind of like the either Q school or the final corn fairy tour event of the year where there is some real like if he misses this putty does not have a job next year type of things. I don't mean for it to be the hunger games. I understand that people get injured and you need to have major medicals in place and you need to have different ways to fill the fields and like all of that stuff. But man, there's got to be, when you get to wind him, this was always, you know,

it's changed a little bit over the last few years. But when you get to wind him and it's like, oh, my God, if he misses this putt, I mean, his, he's just, he might not ever play golf again. He's only going to get 21 PJ tour starts next year. If he misses this, but I felt like, Zach finished 126 twice. Yeah. And I was like, man, I'm gutted. for him and he was like oh yeah i'll probably still get like 16 or 17 stars yeah and it's just

i don't know i love yeah i don't know if we can we've talked about that at length too i think you know something else i think they've done like treating golf like a sport yeah right of i think they've gotten better with this of like oh you know actually it feels like they're starting to enforce the rules a little bit more or like you know pace and play stuff or that sort of thing and It just feels like, or just a little bit of transparency on that front, too, I think is, it feels like they're starting to go in the right direction on like, you know, hey, we're not going to soak the golf courses and we're going to, like, we, they, they both realize that it's a competition and that's what at the heart of it, but also it needs to be entertaining and it's an entertainment product as well. And, you know, I think that's that that was lost a little bit of like, no, this is this is the first tournament of the FedEx Cup playoffs. and we couldn't possibly it's like they changed it they changed the the format mid year this year which like i know we were kind of shitting on them for it but like i respect it you know like it was an improvement over the previous it i still i don't want to like dismiss what you mean by like the the threat of you know that last spot or the cutoff here because my example here is actually probably not the best one of just like formula one there are like storylines of you know fourth fifth sixth place all that stuff but to me golf is almost for if you're talking about reaching these

casual fans or just like reaching more people or are making a product that's really interesting to watch it's all about those last four holes like that's all it is is yeah i mean was tpc southwind was the the st jude was it a good Thursday tournament was it a good friday viewing experience like no one will remember that but you know was it like pardon my take guys we're talking about the finish at the fed at the st jude because it was a really good finish finish, right? And the competition was close. And so, like, I still think like that's mostly the through line. But you got to get people in the bucket to be there for when the finish is really good as well, right? That's where like the continuation, like presenting a really good back nine

Sunday product is probably like the witching hour on Red Zone. I try my best not to miss because it's just a really good product, right? It just, there's suspense at the end of all of those games. Quick break here to give a shout to our friends at the stack system. You can go to the stack system. slash NLU code no laying up. I just completed my second foundational work. My next workout TC is going to be a progress check to see what is next. That means I've completed 48 training sessions in my backyard, just saved a ton of time. You don't have to go to the golf course. You go stretch in the backyard. You move your golf muscles for a little while. I've gained at least 48 sessions. I mean, going back a year and a half, I've been doing this for a long time now.

My club head speed is definitely up. You can spend a ton of time in. this app getting better at golf you can be using time doing stack wedges you can get dialed in from 31 yards 53 yards 71 93 when you get up to the golf course all of a sudden if you got like 70 yards you just you know you have a feel in place because you've practiced that you've honed in trying to hit that exact number the putting thing is fantastic you can try out all kinds of different grips and different putters and see what your stats are within uh the app there it just it is a really really robust tool and if you want to get better at golf in a in a fast period of time i cannot recommend the stack system.

Stacksystem.com slash NLU code no laying up. We'll get you 10% off any bundle you want there. Again, stack system.com slash NLU code no laying up. Back to the pod. Any other pie in the sky ideas? We've reached that point. So anything else you want to huck out, huck out.

And I'm going to start with, Sally, I don't think Thursday, Friday needs to be packaged in the same way as Saturday, Sunday. I think that would be another big thing I would write up on the whiteboard is like, man,

Thursday golf at, noon from John Deere is like that's just not even the same as Sunday golf from John Deere right like you got to be able to do that differently it cannot be just like you like it's such optional viewing right now like honestly everything has to go so right for me to tune into any of that golf and I like am on a golf podcast for a job I think I would get so much more out of following one group that's miced up creating a super cut of that group. something that is just like, man, I'm not going to sit here and watch eight hours of PJ Tour Live. I know the heavy gamblers are maybe watching that stuff. And I'm like, I just don't know if we're, we need to build those Thursday Friday. Like, we can just get so much more experimental, I think, on those Thursday Fridays of non-majors, non like big time events. Yeah, I think on that note too, yeah, like, hey, we're going to like, they used to do spotlight

coverage on, hey, we're going to show every guy in the field to play this one part three. and you see the different you know trajectories or whatever it's great second screen viewing and I think like this day and age I think the tour needs to lean into that same reason I used to watch like the European tour even on Thursdays and Fridays of like rent and laid law would be on the the broadcasting had a great accent and it was just like and they're not showing that many golf shots but they're just it's just a cool place to hang out for a little bit and you know and there's there's just simplicity and yeah it's like they're truly transporting me there whereas that's tougher when it's you know you're watching an event in ireland or you know in the middle east versus

like when it's cold outside versus you know in like the quad cities i hate to keep picking on the quad cities because i love the john deer but like but well no to that point it's like the bare bones version of those broadcasts it's not worth the exponential cost that it takes to try to get it to like a higher it's almost like law of diminishing returns the more you're you're putting you're putting so much money into trying to make those like serious broadcasts

on Thursday and Friday that I'm just like it's it's pretty much the same I think it's also a little bit like taking like the baseball analogy of like you know watching the Brewers game every night because like you're just absolutely wrapped to see what's going to happen in the bottom of the sixth inning

it's like there's casual conversation and banter hang it out they go from from every from every you know from season to season game to game road trip to road trip and like all of that stuff ladders up to something and i think that's where there's been this faux seriousness with the tour of like all the personality has been beaten out of everything and if it felt like oh you know what it's it's noon on on on friday this guy always does the you know these two guys always do the the you know noon to three on pGA tour live like i want to go hang out with them and it's two guys in their kind of in their bag they have a good rapport and

you know oh you remember this three weeks ago same things happen in here right now and there's there's there's a there's an arc to it throughout the season instead of just every round is disconnected um and then i think just i mean roll apps talked about her a little bit of like whether it's hard knocks or sound effects um or it's like man like nobody's trying to get anybody canceled. It's just like literally you just want to see like details and nitty gritty and some personalities and personal interactions. And I think, um, you know, like that I feel like that's what full swing like positioned itself to be. And it's not that at all. Full swing is just like the pop culture done down. Hey, this is to get people in the boat, which there's a place for that. I think

that's extremely valuable. But I think that like, they're not giving any, like, they're not, they're not serving the core audience to an extent. Or if they are, it's just like the most dry, overly produced, sanitized stuff out there. Sponsored. Yeah. Yeah. To your point, Rolap did talk a lot in the creator classic meeting about non-event related content. Like being a topic, how is the sport going to be a topic of conversation in the off season, right?

Which is going to be a much bigger challenge? that it will be with the NFL again for a lot of the reasons we discussed there but uh that's a priority for him right is is content in you know in and out of season and viewing those two things differently uh i'd be very curious to see kind of what the plan is there that's one that i'm not like hey i've got the blueprint for you i've got ideas here it's like all right genuinely curious how you drum that up because uh you know it's a one the season doesn't really stop on the pGA tour the fedx cup season does stop but you have the fall series and you have you know all these other time periods but he talked a lot just about content away from the event in general right and that's on from the

NFL that's everywhere like getting creators IP to be able to make their own content and just really winning in that space the PJ tour is taking such a hard line approach over the years DMCAing everything that possibly comes across and anything that's not in line with messaging like how do you go about tearing that down and giving people just some entry points into the game that aren't I need to flip on golf channel to see this highlight or I need to seek this out. I'd be curious to see where they end up landing on that one because a PJ tour has evolved and I feel like is kind of on the right path, but this guy's also got a ton of experience

with very sought after highlights, like much more sought after and commercializable highlights than what the PJ tour has. Like I think he's going to be able to figure that one out. I think on that note too, it's also another one of those contradictions where you can say and I understand what he's saying. One of the great assets of the tour is that it's owned by the players. It's run by the players.

Players are going to have a larger voice. So, well, the players are also the people who are going to be pissed about every single content idea you have that is within that. I think the players are a rude awakening. Right? I think they have to be. And I don't even blame the players for that necessarily

because it's, you know, thinking about how some of this stuff works. It's like, man, they've just been in this world now where it's like, well, I could either practice my putting or I could go do what is it how many Twinkies can I eat challenge for your TikTok? I think I'll probably just keep putting, man. That gives me a better chance to win $4 million this week

and so I don't know finding that balance is going to be very tough for him I think. I think we put a lot of that on us on players. I think there's a lot of players that are cooler with doing that kind of stuff and I think we've got to put some of the on us on agents as well. I think

a lot of the agents seem to evolve too because there's you know there's there there's there there's a lot of guys that won't even take it to the player right or um the volume of request though in the last 10 years has changed so greatly it's hard it's hard that's the only sympathy i have is just like well and it's these guys these guys didn't trust the tour and for good reason the tour wasn't like whereas like he that's you know like he's the dp world tour that analogy of like well like why do they produce such great content well because the players trust correct the guys making the asks like those guys are studs and they're like extremely you know they have great ideas they communicate well they don't like they don't bait and switch the players

they don't make them look bad it's it's truly like hey this is for your own good and there's a level of trust there and I think the tour to a certain extent breached that trust just with either bad content or bad bad ideas or bad execution or all the above but I think just generally speaking on like the social side I do feel like the tour's gotten a lot like the social just a lot cleaner than they were

six, 12 months ago. Like it seems like they're tweeting or posting like you know 75% less and it's it just feels like there's so much less clutter and they're just chasing dollars instead of dimes kind of thing

like hey we're trying to grow the boat. We're trying to use this as a tool to get more people and do it and generate excitement instead of just trying to make three cents on this this decorator's thing or on this official marketing partner payoff or you know

this was in their contract we have to do this but this is the 82nd post we put out today it's like no like you know and I would imagine they're probably seeing like healthier engagement numbers because people like I'm like I've I unfollowed the PGA tour like two or three years ago on socials just because I was like,

it's just taking over my feet. They're posting so much stuff that nobody knows what's important and they can't keep up. So everything just gets washed out and you turn it off, you know. I don't throw this one to either of you, whoever wants to take it, but how does all of this, everything is changing,

everything's on the table conversation, how does it affect the live of it all? The merger, they're going to come together, they're not going to come together. Either of you have any thoughts on how this affects everything? I've got relatively simple and quick thoughts on it. It's pretty far off concern, honestly.

I think the only thing that comes to mind is whether or not RoLAP represents an entirely different approach to allowing live guys to play in PGA tour events. I'd be surprised if he did, but this is a completely different regime. I mean, the PGA tour was extremely hard line in the sand. I thought that was the right decision out of do things. and I don't think he would make a lot of sense for him to create open pathways for players to do both. Or also, would he consider the one-time amnesty option of at this specific date?

You guys can all come back. If you'd like, you're not going to be part of the equity programs. But here you go. Blah, blah, blah, date when your contracts are up and it lines up. Rom's on a different timeline, I know,

but, you know, who would take that? I'm really only interested in Rom and Bryson. Like, I'm somewhat interested in Kepka. and in DJ and Hatton and some of the good players. But from a needle moving standpoint, Rahman Bryson would kind of be the only ones for me of really good marketable competitive golfers at this moment.

So it's much less of a question than it would have been two years ago. For me, I just don't find myself longing for those guys back and knew as much as often as I used to. But don't think a merger is happening either way. I don't feel like it should at this point. I think PJ Tours won the battle quite clearly. and I just want a couple of these guys back. That's pretty much it.

I think it's like be the best version of yourself and don't do stuff to, you know, to seek otherwise. I do think like even some of the advantages that it felt like Liv had, whether it's from a market perspective of, you know, it seemed like they were going to carve out a foothold in Asia or in Australia. Like it seems like they're even backsliding on that front of the, you know, I watched like this Singapore event. There's nobody there.

There's no juice, the Australia event at the Grange. I don't think it's going to happen at the Grange next year. It sounds like it's going to go to another course. And it just seems like, hey, just keep the pedal down. And the fact that the tour is actually investing and improving its own product is the best byproduct we ever could have gotten from Live. It's like that's, you know, the reason the reason the tour didn't want to take the phone call in the first place from Andy Gardner and the PGL guys was because they like it was just extreme arrogance and

you know basically all the stuff that Rollap has been brought in now to like they've acknowledged that by bringing in Rollap by bringing in an outsider of like hey we you know like we realized why there was why there was a vacuum why this thing was even allowed to get off the ground I mentioned upfront kind of that SSG war chest of money that's sitting there kind of already invested in the PJ tour PJ tour enterprises, however all of that is kind of shaking out which by the way I know he said this earlier

but what an attractive way to hire somebody right? It's just like hey man but not only will we give you kind of the top job but also here's like a billion a half dollars to just kind of you know go go try stuff go do stuff. What should he do? Solly what do you

what do you think he should do? What is he going to do? What are they going to do? Not just him but I'm curious what's on your list. Deeds, this gets into the part of the show that, like, I feel really, I feel, I've felt extremely confident in everything I've said to this point as to how this product affects me as a viewer and consumer of the content, right? I feel very, invest a lot of time and thought into this.

Now we're venturing into the stuff that's not my cup of tea in terms of, I've not done a financial analysis of what it would look like to buy the rider cup or to start buying up properties. We are entering a new period of time where the PGA tour is a for-profit, entity and players are going to have equity in this and i i care more about how that's going to affect how decisions get made and push through and again i asked brian about that to say hey there's been this period of time where the mules greatly outnumber the volume of guys that provide all the value how do you anticipate getting things through and you just didn't seem that concern with that

with it now being a for-profit entity so you probably know some stuff i don't know on that front how that's all going to work all that to say yeah i've heard the the the the the the the ideas that are out there of what to do with this money and kind of becoming like a business of golf and increase the connectivity of of the players to other you know whether it be resorts or other golf businesses or other golf event you know is the the rider cup or the pGA of america do they buy the l pga tour do they buy the deep i don't know i don't know the answer to all that i'll let to say like this is going to be an entirely new arm of of the pGA tour and i'd be curious what they're mandate is from the players on this front because undoubtedly like the can't lays know a lot more

about kind of what's at least in the works with this or what they're thinking than I would it's not for nothing the money's just not to be like we'll come up with something later like they've obviously thought of something I just don't have the answer to what that might be I've just heard the rumors I also don't think it's just like well just give it to the players you know just give it's not cash right out checks you know yeah yeah do you think what do you think that they're they're you know you see it with the way that they're operating the tour in the way that they're operating tournaments, going from a host organization, you know, whether it's, you know, and there's some that you're always going to have, right?

You're always going to have the salesmanship club of Dallas or the Thunderbirds. Yeah, or, you know, like I think, you know, they've taken on truest now is, you know, a championship management or, you know, travelers is championship management or, you know, the one down in Palm Beach, championship management. And I think those going to for-profit tournaments, I think, you know, we'll see what happens with the charities on that front. But I do think there's an opportunity to almost street these tournaments like you would like a franchise, like an NBA franchise of like, hey, you know what? Like, you know, like what would be the most valuable franchises on the PGA tour? Phoenix, Riviera, probably, Pebble Beach.

You know, and it's kind of like, that's how I would think about like, all right, you know, how do we. How do we make these venues or these experiences, these annual experiences, more lasting, right? And think about it more like a, you know, like you would a music festival or, you know, it's like something like, you know, Khan or like the movie festival, like something that's, you know, it's a center of gravity, right? And it's like it's an experiential thing. And so you're getting more money on site because that's how the tournaments make money, right? They, you know, the on-site, the booze and the corporate hospitality and all that stuff.

And then I think, you know, because I think for too long, the tours had both, like, kind of a window in both things. Like, I think they're going to use some of this money. Maybe not have to use the money just to, they'll just do it as part of the next rights deal is like, they're just going to buy a golf channel. They're just going to bring that in house. But I think, you know, it depends on like what, what your return, like, hey, are we looking for a return in the next five, ten years? are we looking to make this thing extremely valuable in 30 years? You know, how do you want, like, what's your, what's your prioritization there? But I think the, you know, from the perspective of like, you know, how to create more

of those great franchises, how do you create a great franchise in Florida, right? You know, beyond players in Bay Hill or, you know, hey, if Tour Championship is moving around, how do you, you know, and shit, maybe you, maybe you, maybe you. make some sacrifices on the front end with some of that $1.5 billion, like, you're not necessarily creating a, like you're not buying something tangible, but you're using it to invest in, you know what, hey, we're not going to extract maximum value out of this market, you know, for the next five years because we're making an investment that we think this market's going to be extremely valuable in 15, you know, and to get this thing off the ground, like, this is not going to be the most

profitable tournament in the world right off the bat. I think there's other stuff too of like, like, you know, the tour has been very much like, hey, we are, they've tried to mask like the media deal and the corporate, like, you know, the way that they sell inventory with like a corporation wants to sponsor a PGA tour event. There's some corporations that do do it for, you know, marketing for four eyeballs and impressions and all that but that's i think that's the exception rather than the rule the rule is like no we're getting a big ass tax right off we're whining and dining some of our best clients or a lot of our employees and and our dealers or whatever you know like whether it's john dear bmw or genesis or

whatever and you know and our ceo really likes golf or you know this is just a a good touch point for us and i think that like that's you know that's sometimes you know that's sometimes at odds with the actual product itself and you know the TV product and so I think there's yeah like I would also invest it just in like hey how do we how do we figure out maybe the FedEx cup playoffs maybe that's just like straight up like made for TV stuff of hey we're going to have 16 dudes and we are going to abandon dunes or we are going to we're going to Nenea in Hawaii or we're going to chambers bay or we're going to you know let inch and it's going to be live and it's going to be in primetime or it's going to be you know on saturday

and sunday morning and like figure out how to do that but i think that that money gives you license to try some new weird shit out you know um and and make those experiences more like and then you know let's say the people that are in attendance cool like that is a very VIP experience that you know is is more like a US amateur or a Walker Cup that you can sell to a sponsor and it's their 600

you know as people like cool like that's that's worth it's weight in gold that's worth more than big ass hospitality tents lining the 16th hole and just seeing every group come by you know what uh as we start to move towards land

in the plane here what do you guys think your ideal schedule looks like. I mean, I know they're talking about shaking things up. Saul, you mentioned this earlier. That's how I feel, too, is it can be almost a little daunting to imagine it because it's been so similar for so long. I know that's part of the challenge, but no restrictions, no rules, just right, T.C. What's your schedule? Look, you don't need to go week by week, but just kind of broadly speaking. I've heard stuff that they are going to, like, they're going to make it concerted

effort and you can scoff or laugh at this or roll your eyes but like to carve out time for the TGL playoffs like you know possibly move stuff around in in that late February early March time frame um you know so I'll be rolling my eyes just a little bit on that okay okay but like but like maybe that's building in a natural break for some of these guys to be at home like I think there's in the world I think they like if this TGLL thing is going to be a sustainable model, I think they have to build something in either Vegas, LA or Scottsdale. You know, so, but like back to like, what would you spend money on? Like, you know, I would look at, hey, where do we have viable venues or, you know, sustainable

venues moving forward, both, you know, just relationship wise or cost wise or whatever. And then I would look at like, cool, like where can we build venues? Like where, you know, like where, what part of the country are we really light in that? We could really use a new venue and let's like spend some of that money in like building a new golf course. Not dissimilar from like what the PJ of America is done with Frisco a little bit. You know, and you can and you know, I know that's privately owned and, you know, all of that, but you could do private partnership. You can do a public private partnership.

You could go to Chambers Bay and say, hey, you know what? We want to spend some of this money on building a clubhouse here for you. You guys don't have any infrastructure out here. So we can't really host anything here. We will front the money to build this clubhouse and the requisite infrastructure if we can come here to discount for the next 10 years, right? Or, you know, something like that. And then that gives you, all right, cool. That's a cornerstone spot for, you know, for, you know, and shit, you build a hotel on site, right?

And then the PGA tour is getting a percentage of the money for all on-site stays. Everybody wins. you know I think from a schedule perspective like then that opens up the Pacific Northwest right you get to go to the Pacific Northwest summer you know late like that's a that's a good all right you got prime time all that stuff like I I tend to think the West Coast swing should be later in the year so it either be late spring like you know late April early May or it should be you know in July like June July I think the you know you'd start out with Australia, Hawaii, you know, maybe a Mexico event, then come to Florida.

And then, you know, and then you do Texas after that or, you know, I think there's too many events in Texas. I think you need, you know, roving,

and I would do more roving events too. Like I would do, you know, something that roves around, whether that's New England or just stuff that, you know, hey,

there's three or four that those BNW championship style events instead of just one. And then, yeah, I would do, you know, and then, yeah, I think doing kind of some co-sanctioned stuff with LPGA tour, even if it's not same place, same time, it's back-to-back weeks. And you get cost savings from, you know, being able to build infrastructure once, you know, whether for fans or for TV. So I think schedule-wise, too, I mean, I feel like the PGA championship being in May is just kind of coming things up, too. And I know that that, you know, maybe you, maybe you keep the players in March and you just move the PGA championship back to August. And that frees up May to like, you know, you go out to the West Coast, right?

What if you buy the PGA of America and PGA championship? And that kind of can become your season and concluding. And it's a major. I just don't think that's the last event before the playoffs, you know. Yeah, yeah. I just don't think there's any way that, like, I mean, hey, they don't want to buy the PGA of America because they don't want the 31,000. He's split off from them for a reason, right, back in the day, right?

But I also think that it's going to be really, really challenging to, like, that's why they're going to have to put the squeeze on, right? From a, hey, you know, we're going to make it really difficult for you guys to operate moving forward with our players unless you, you know, pay the Piper. And then it's going to get less profitable for the PGA of America to run that event. and then go from there. So I think there's some dominoes that need to fall there because I think it feels like right now I mean, you saw it with just even

who they hired of like, you know, everybody in that organization or at least a lot of the old guard thinks that they're just, you know, that they are like the end all be all and they can call the shots and all of that. And I think that's pretty far from the truth,

you know. Only thing I would add on the schedule front, I kind of said this after the tour championship, but I'll really, iterate it the straight up man I don't think you need the playoffs I think Atlanta is a great place to stop and should be a big time signature PJ tour event I think Memphis probably needs to go away I don't know how the whole FedEx thing is going to shake out there but I don't know that that's a great event and BMW I think is an absolutely fantastic capstone to the season event that roves around

that's run very well and that players seem to really like that I think should be again an upscale signature event and I don't the playoffs the continuity from event to event I don't think is there I don't think anybody's caring like ooh scotty had a tough week in round one of the playoffs what's he going to do in round two nobody cares they they they pretend like they care on the windham you know when it gets to wind them they pretend like they care when they get to tour championship but it kind of only comes down to those last couple holes I think at the at the tour championship if it's close and so I will continue beating the drum there that like put the BMW at the end of the season as a final seeding thing and the tour championship just needs to be a big

extravaganza I think stroke play matches uh whittle it down until you have one one champion don't try to get just don't get caught in the playoff conversation like that's what's tripping everybody up is like well is it a true playoff well if it's going to be a true playoff it needs to have like don't do any of that just say like if you want it to be a season long champion we're going to have a points race that gets down to the end and then we're going to have one week of playoff that that is a match play bracket you know and some years there'll be drama and some years there's not

exactly and so that's all I will say on I think the schedule largely is I can't imagine trying to put it together it's a ton of moving pieces TC I'm with you I think the there shouldn't be any anything off the table as far as moving the Florida swing moving the West Coast swing going

to X Y and Z at different times but I just think as you're talking about PJ Championship I'm like well it could easily move back to August if you don't have to worry about the playoffs and guys playing nine weeks in a row or whatever it's like i don't know i think getting rid of that capital p playoffs word would just would free a lot up and i i would throw my full-throated support behind that one other scheduled thing i think they should just use the i don't know what the fall series looks like post 2026 but using that is more of a like kind of like

what they're starting to do with the corn fairy tour of like an incubator for ideas right of you know hey we're going to do like you know we just lost like we lost our only stable for tournament on this on the calendar we like i don't know i think a cool idea for a tournament is like what you should have to you basically do like your best ball from like let's say it's a three round tournament in your best ball in each hole the rigor the rigor of it yeah the ringer event right and you get like guys just playing wildly aggressively but then also like oh shit I doubled this all the first two days that's sick which again you know I go back to like there should be you know if we're going to really lead in on the two tours thing it's like yeah take some room to experiment with with that you know the this is so silly but I know this is the case a big reason why this hasn't happened is because they can't come up with the nomenclature for what to call that sub-tour because nobody will buy a sponsorship for an event that's like, no, you're on like the feeder tour.

You're on the, you know, and so it's like, oh, is it like a legends and in challengers or is it like a, is it, do we call this the upstart? No, you can't call them the upstarts because you got, it's just, it's so funny to me that I know that's got to be what's holding some of this up. I think it's, you take the signature event series, whatever it is, and call it the championship series. Yeah. Right. And that can be, it's going to have all the majors, going to have the players, all the signature events in it. And maybe you're adding to that. Maybe we need more opposite field events to, to, you know, placate the mules and things like that. And the rest are PGA tour events that are not championship series. Like I think that's, that's probably how it needs to be branded, which I know. You could even do something where you roll in like, you know, the mule series of the second tier PGA tour and the DP World Tour, they play.

separate schedule for a certain, you know, time period in the year. And then, you know, the second half of that schedule or the last third of it is integrated. And you take the top 60 players from each one and they play, you know, and you kind of, you know, you kind of intermingle those a little bit or like, like let's say they wanted to get more of the Middle Eastern money into the ecosystem, right, with Dubai or Abu Dhabi or, you know, or Asia or any of that stuff. I don't know, it just seemed like there's so much, like, I mean, shit, another event that, like, I used to like, because it moved around was the, the American Express. Remember that, like, back in the day when it went to, like, it was like capital city, yeah, yeah, like, it was like capital city crab apple. And then it would go to, like, Ireland, Ireland, or, yeah, you know, like, it just seems like, I don't know, there's just, yeah. I don't get the sense that this new leadership means more international, T.C. Like, I don't, I think, like, I think they're going to try to capitalize even more off of the corporate budgets of America.

Like, the sports marketing budgets in America are bigger here. Like, I know we want to see rotation. I just don't think that's a realistic, like, priority. No, I don't think. I don't think that's the balance of things around. I don't think that's where the majority of stuff is. But I do think that if they do want to get. Netflix or Apple TV or somebody like that meaningfully in the boat at like a material value

like they they do want to serve their other markets as well of like that's it's part of the reason why like the NFL is going to Brazil or Australia or that that sort of stuff yeah I just don't know what you like how how you interact with the DP World Tour that's kind of the the toughest part that's like the you know and then and then like you know, collegiate golf and all of that do you try to integrate that stuff more into like i know they're trying that with pga tour you and you know the accelerated stuff and all that like do you keep going with that and really make an investment in a jGA or something like that you know yeah it just seems like there's there's you can create more and more pathways with a simplified feeder system right if if

you can kind of section off like we've got this upper tier championship series whatever it is it's like you can have on ramps to the corn fairy tour and the PJ tour and all kinds of different different things but you got to kind of figure out that top tier first I feel like I think a little bit of the hey we want to we don't want to sponsor this second year tour thing I think some of that solves itself a little bit if you get this signature stuff right where yeah if those events go to 35 40 million dollars a pop you know by which they are kind of by the end of you know these these these current cycles because they're on these six, seven, eight percent escalators every year. I think if you do that, then it's like, all right, well, do you want to spend $40 million

or do you want to spend $8 million? And the PGA tour, even if it's a change in personnel, can make anyone spend $8 million. I don't believe, I guess I don't see that as like, no one's going to want to sponsor these events. They've proven they can get people to sign up for small events at that price. Because, I mean, of course, any individual is going to sit here and say $8 million, a lot of money. to big companies or even medium-sized companies, like RSM or whatever, like they're spending that money easily for the RSM in the fall. And it doesn't have to make sense to us if it makes sense to them.

I also think T.C., that's almost like more of an opportunity for your franchises and identity. And like if some of those events get back to being much more of a local experiential sort of thing, rather than like a bolted-on part of a global media conglomerate, like I think that's where there's room to have some of that identity and personality come out. Yeah. And some of that comes back to like, you know, players will place certain events because they like the venue. Are they like, hey, the food's awesome here. They treat us great.

I love that hotel, you know, like stuff starts to have an identity again. It's not that dissimilar from double a baseball, you know. Yeah. Well, guys, I feel like we covered a lot of ground here. I don't know if we could probably keep going for another two hours, but unless anybody else has anything top of the notebook, I'm going to make a motion to call it there. What do you think?

I think that works. I think, yeah, it's going to be a constant topic. I don't know what. We're going to need to rethink our model if, you know, if there's going to be less things to complain about on the PGA tour. But I think that's a fair trade-off. But, you know, I think it, you know, we're going to continue to have conversations with people here

as to what all that looks like and try to keep our, audience is, you know, apprised of any developments as, uh, as we see fit through on a week to week and month to month basis, because a lot of stuff's going to shake out. You might not see it for a while, but stuff's already in action. Yeah. One other question for you guys, on the new schedule, 2026, what was the biggest surprise for your biggest surprise, concern, you know, success even? I guess that stretch there with the five signature events and majors in a six week stretch was

a surprise and a sponsorless signature event on DT's course was, you know, not really a surprise. We knew that was coming, but that's just kind of like a, oh, okay, well, signature event model must be considered to be a success if we're adding to it, you know, but it's also like, man, this was, this was always going to, the schedule was going to look like this for 2026, and I don't have any big takeaways other than this is probably the last time it's going to look like this. we've said that before though and been proven wrong so we'll see but uh i don't know i don't think it i don't hate the current schedule as it stands now honestly we kind of had a question in here

we didn't really get to him just like what a dream schedule look like and it's just not that far off as much as we talk about it it's not for me it's not that far off but yeah that's a topic of a day dude about you yeah yeah same i think the sponsorless thing is is super interesting but it's i i think maybe if i'm trying to connect the dots like an example of using using the war chest to just create the product that you want to create and it seems like if they're trying to add more of those events like i i don't think that yeah i think it signals that they they like how it's going all right that's going to do it uh for this week's episode uh thanks everyone for turning into the bit different different pieces of this and uh we have an interview coming out

later this week a big randy talk with michael bamberger i think people are going to enjoy that and the next weekend's episode uh this crew right here that you're listening to is going out to the walker cup at cypress point we're going to record a recap of that on sunday night uh as well and NFL's going to be back at that point as well so thanks everyone for tuning in we'll see you back here next week cheers