No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1068: Tommy Fleetwood

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

TC - and Soly - are joined by Tommy Fleetwood on a triumphant return to the pod to discuss his win at East Lake, the close call leading up to getting his first win, a look at the Ryder Cup later this month and a ton more. Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support our Sponsors: Rhoback⁠ The Stack System If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club today. Yeah, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Better than most! Expect anything different? ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the no laying up podcast sally here we will have an interview with

myself and mr tc here shortly with his guy Tommy flea but he's my guy too but i just have not been as fully dedicated to the bit uh as mr tc has great interview with him we do have some connection issues with Tommy uh we will only have video if you're watching this on youtube for the first 20 minutes or so he was out at somewhere in the countryside did not have a great reception ended up with no video on the back half of it but the audio quality gets a little bit better throughout the course of the interview as well so appreciate your patience on that one. I want to give a shout to our friends at Roeback, the Chris Polo's subtle dog logo. It's like how subtle this is. You can barely even see it on there. The most comfortable

hoodies on the planet. I'm rocking the game day collection here. My mountaineers have not looked great so far, but hey, I'm still rocking the gear. We've teamed up with Roeback and Aaron Hills to give you a shot at a bucket list golf experience. You and a friend will join two members of the NLU crew for an unforgettable round of championship golf at Aaron Hills. Your prize includes a round of golf with us at Aaron Hills, plus a one night's day in Aaron Hill's world-class cottages, travel credit to get you there and $1,000 in Roeback gear to get you looking and feeling your best on the course. Just go to rowback.com slash NLU to enter.

It takes 30 seconds. You might just end up teeing it up with a few of us at one of the top golf courses in the world while enjoying some of the best gear out there. Roeback.com slash NLU to enter. Let's get to our interview with Tommy Fleetwood. At what point did you see TC in Atlanta? Did you see him at all during the round of golf? and he was claiming that he was trying to hide.

As soon as I saw TC, I acknowledged him and I fist pumped towards him. And hopefully he can back up my story there. That was afterwards. Yeah, I never saw you before that. I swear, I never saw you before that. Yeah, you were at the back of the 18th green and I had there. It was at the presentation. Turn around and I saw you there at the back of the 18th grade.

So it was cool. What was your honest reaction when he flew over to England, though? I mean, for that one. Oh, Hoylake. I mean, I thought I was going to win, too. So it was like, I was gutted, actually. I mean, what a story. Like, I loved every little bit of that story.

And yeah, I thought, you know, it was one of those things. Not that I, you know, obviously I wasn't, I'm not going to say I went into it and I was like 100% certain of everything that was going to happen. but I felt, you know, I felt good about it. I felt like I was playing well, and then I'd seen Trond had come over. It was awesome. How good would that have been? If we could have had the claret joke at the end of that, that would have been pretty epic.

Would have been epic, but also would have been, you know, the story would have been different. We wouldn't have had East Lake, right? That's true. I think it all made sense for a reason. It all worked out in the end. Yeah, I mean, I am a bit of a, like, I actually don't know sort of, what I believe in exactly, but I do believe that things happen for a reason and then like things work out for whatever, for whatever which way. And yeah, pretty, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything anyway.

So what, you, you've won several times on the DP World Tour, but there's this, you know, this narrative, the crooked media is drumming up this narrative about your, you know, the fact that you haven't won on the PGA tour and all that. So it's not like you're trying to win for the first time. But at what point did it, did it ever become a thing to you to say like, okay, all right, this has gone. on long enough. Why haven't I won on the PJ tour? When did it be did it ever become a thing in your own head of like, okay, no, why hasn't this happened for me? Um, well, I, I never, I never get too, like, high or low about, um, like what the media says. I, I sort of, I feel like I respect everything and, you know, whatever I do read, I, I try not to read loads, obviously, because you, you, it's easy to be emotionally involved in what people say. But like, I, I think it was, um, a lot

other points were always going to be valid. I mean, I haven't won on the PJ tour. And yeah, I've won quite a few times. Whether it's the PJ tour, DP World's or whatever it is, I still, you know, I would still say, I feel like I could have won more. And I'm sure everybody, you know, feels like that. And I felt like I haven't won my fair share. But the PJ tour thing, yeah, I remember in, so in Canada in 23, was Canada 23 or 24?

23. 23 Like that one I stood on the last hole there It's par five And it's an iron off the tee And I made par on the last Birdie would have won it

But I and then You know Nick We had an unbelievable playoff And then Nick holds that put And I remember being on the plane there I guess it was going to the US Open I was dwelling on it a little bit And I remember thinking about it then

But for me I was like You know legitimate chance at the time like I've had a few I've not had loads it wasn't something that I sort of overly sort of worried about just because you know sometimes it happens for you sometimes it doesn't and I was like it's not like I've been there 20 times or 30 times and I can't do it so I want to avoid then and then I think this year was definitely the hardest just because of the like the positions that I did put myself in and it didn't happen it wasn't that I ever

doubted like it would happen or I made it like a story but it definitely like it builds, of course it does because like especially travellers you got I had a put on 15 at the travellers to have a 14 sorry to have a three shot lead Keegan Holden Monster

on 15 like a really cool moment but still he's held like a you know 40, 50 footer and then everything that could have gone wrong down the last goes wrong and then Memphis again felt like I sort of moved into control the tournament on the bat nine and then i couldn't do it so it was it more it was more like just yeah that was the toughest to deal with in terms of like these times didn't happen going to be there again at some point i'm going to have to deal with like a little

bit more doubt that i've put in there just because those ones didn't finish off but it's a long-winded answer to say like i never made it more of a story than it was did you learn something different from each one like from travelers what did you take specifically from travelers versus what did you take from Memphis so both of them I led the tournament from a certain part in the second round at some point and I led the tournament all the way up until Travelers was the 71st hole and Memphis was the 17th maybe so 70th hole so like both of those times like the first thing that I took away was it away from it was how well I've played how long I had held the lead for and it came down to those closing few holes i um like travelers especially i didn't

feel like i did much wrong i uh felt like i could have hit a couple times where i left myself like an awkward chip shot and like the the two tournaments in my mind played out so similar like it was a little bit uncanny like if you look at the shots that i had to it on so 16 i a decent iron shot of travelers over the back and i look back and jason day hit a ridiculous chip shot from there that people don't realize how good it was from like a similar spot and I tried to play it like lofted I was a bit nervous tried to go really lofted and soft and it sort of ran away 16 at Memphis I hit it right at the green tried to play it really lofted like really soft it runs over the green so both of those very very similar like you know in both of them you know a shot

like half a shot out like both times and I felt like they were both just very similar if I get myself in that position again. I think more that because there was sort of a little bit of doubt that creeped in and for how those tournaments had gone, it almost forced me to be to know that I had to be positive in those moments and like commit to my shots. There was like no other choice because I knew if I got there again. I'd probably be thinking about these two.

Like these two have just happened very recently. It's kind of a big talking point, but it's going to force me to be to like have the right mindset. And I think I just took that away from them, really. Like both tournaments played out very similar. Somebody, I, I never felt like I gave it away. I just felt like I'd, you know, had a bad finish. And then the guys like Justin, JJ, Keegan, obviously they finished great as well.

Like, they didn't have to go on, you know, Keegan might not have birded the last at travellers. Or Justin might not have had the bat night. He did, you know, like things like that. So I just, I took those things from it really and just, you know, that if I get there again, I'm just going to do everything I can to focus on the good and go out there and enjoy it. That's better than the only time I've ever been worried about you, Tommy,

was I think right after Canada and 23 was right to the U.S. Open. I think we talked that week, and you literally said to me, you're like, yeah, I was thinking about TC in the playoff, man. I just really wanted to do it for him. And at that moment, I was like, oh, no, what are we doing? Like, no, that's not what you should be thinking about it. It's not going to wrong.

Well, you know, crazy things pop into your mind at different times. but yeah, I've been ready to get that win together for a long time now. What was the moment at Eastlake? Like, I know you got off to a great start on Sunday. You had a massive, massive par save on eight. And that, for me, it was a moment of like, all right, that, that puck goes in, that feels different. And then, you know, nine was playing really tough. But that moment on eight felt like, all right, this feels much different,

especially after the early birdies you had as well. Did that feel different to you? Or was it just, hey, that putt happened to go in and it was the same process? No, I was very much in the process at the time. And then honestly, I actually started to feel worse than any of the other tournaments through that middle part of the round

because the shots I hit on like five, I ate a really bad T shot and then six I played the whole pretty well. But seven, I know it a great bunker shot, but the T shot wasn't like, it was all right it wasn't that great eight was a terrible

tea shot and then nine I hooked it off the tea and I said like I hit a shot on an 11 and I could feel like swing doesn't feel very good like swing really doesn't feel good

at this point and like I felt worse at that point than in any time of any of the other tournaments because I was like oh man like I can feel like my rhythm's gone

my tempo's gone like hit some shockers and then I hit the so like you stand on 11 11's a really hard shot and I hit the green swing felt not very good so I was like

I need to sort this out and I said after the tournament I was really proud at how I managed to like sort of feel like I fixed my swing a little bit there and then I played the next few holes great and to be fair like 16 I hit an iron shot in there

ball was above my feet and I had a really nice iron shot and I felt at that point I was like this you know like visually the door is just opening wider and wider at this point but it wasn't until then that I really felt like this one looks like the one, this one looks like

the one I'm going to get done. Like I felt I almost felt worse than the other two at that point in the middle of the round. Huh. Because 10 can't make that putt and then he puts it in the bunker on 11 and you hit a good shot and then it felt like from 12 on

where it was like, all right, this is, he's doing the right stuff. He's driving it in the fairway. And then 15T, you had a long, that was a pretty tent, like that's such an outrageous tea box back there. Yeah. You'd gone in the water the day before.

Was that the moment that you were like, we were talking about laying up on Wednesday. Remember you and I were putting? We were talking about how we scoped out, lay it up to the front tee box. I know. And that was for the creative classic. Um, um,

not yet. So 15. like 15 is just not a great hole for me like I think it's it's probably a bit harsh like the way it's been designed now because like I look back I think if my shot carried a yard further I'm going to pitch on that down slope that's just off the left side of the green and that could go in the water and I haven't really done anything wrong and it's on the edge of being a bit harsh for me but like the way that it sets up like the T the T aims left and then the green goes like on like angles to the right like it it just doesn't set up nice and like the day

before yeah i just put a terrible swing on it the day before and i was really disappointed that i just at least didn't just put a good swing on it or hit a good shot and deal with it from there if it goes in the water and i felt like i'd done like you know enough good things you're sort of okay about it but i was really disappointed that i hit the shot that i did and then and it was you know it was an awkward number it was such a shocking number for me like if i hit a five iron that was a bit strong it's going to go you know left and carry a bit further than where it did if i had a six iron that's kind of carrying just onto the green well if i miss it or if i push it then that's in the water so it's a really awkward number as well and that's why we that's why we took quite a bit

of time discussing it i just um like i just wanted to get the right one and take my time i think the easiest thing would be to rush um so even though like it was a long time on the T I just felt like we were talking through it and trying to get the right one and then once we got it I was fine I just committed to the shot I actually had a nice shot I think anywhere on land on that hole

is a good golf shot so that was that was always going to be a big hole if I got off if I got off that where when I hit land you know like bogey's going to be fine like I I was totally ready to if I ate in the water as well double wasn't disaster I was still in it I was still in a good position it just wasn't

as good as well I was and then the next T shots were probably next T shots are really big like Patrick pulled it into the rough and had to chip out and I hit the fairway so yeah that was like a that and the second shot were big sort of decisive no moments for me because in that moment what I'm what I'm we're all flashing back to is 18 fairway at travelers when there was look like there was a lot of indecision on the club choice there and I was just did you did you learn anything from that specific moment right did you look back that night were you like man what how did I land on that decision uh or Or, you know, was it, was it the strike?

Take us back to that one because a lot of people kind of called that moment out. Yeah. Again, I spoke to Bob Retteller about this afterwards, and he was really good about it because like, so he told me that he didn't think, you know, he wouldn't say that how I played that shot or anything or how I went about, it was indecisive. He said it was completely understandable. So I'm in between, I'm in between two shots. It's like the wind is sort of across, you know, moving across, moving into, moving across, moving into.

I'm in between two clubs and the first question, like, Finno asked me is like, you know, how pumped up are you? Which is, you know, obviously a legitimate question. Like on Sunday in Atlanta, I was hitting the ball like miles and like we just, you know, we judged it really well. I was hitting it so far with my hands. And yeah, stood in that fairway. And the one I picked originally, like I've got this swing, you know, hands to shoulders. 9, whatever, which is a slightly different flight. It goes a bit further than a normal wedge.

And anyway, as I walked into it, again, you know, the way that winds swirls and stuff, like, Finner wasn't happy with it, it was fine, pull off, go to choose the wedge. But Bob Rital said to me, when you stood in there, you made your decision, you know, maybe you backed off it, but then you made another decision, which happens all the time. And you stood up and you committed to the golf shot, and it just wasn't the right one. but like it was you know he was he made me feel really good about it because he was like you know if you'd have stood in there and put a bad swing and sort of felt like it was the wrong one or you were indecisive like over the shot and put a bad swing on it that's a different

story but you know got the decision wrong and then three put yeah I three put it from now I left it way short and didn't it the greatest put didn't it the worst put didn't go in king and holds it and that's that you know like say everything that could have gone wrong went wrong and but yeah like you just um again like over on when you fast forward to atlanta like like the 16th hole in Memphis in between clubs i had to fade it around the sorry it's not 16 17 17 in between clubs got to fade it around a tree from the middle of fairway uh i think there's like a little bit more on it but again like just uh funny how again such a crucial moment i ended up choosing between two clubs i'd love to stand there and know that it was a definite like you know

it's just a good six sign or something like that. But those things just kept popping up and eventually I got it, you know, got it right. But both those times, like I could have two putted 18 at travellers. I could have hold it. People of hole puts on me before from like long range. And, you know, 17, I could have got up and down and take it down the last. So they just, those times didn't happen for me. But yeah, you learn from similar situations.

When did, how often do you talk with Bob Rottella? And is that, you know, was that something that you were seeking out specifically in relation to some of the close calls and where you were at mentally, or is this kind of just a normal check-in? No, I mean, that one is, you know, after the travellers, obviously that's a particular scenario that you're going to go through and talk about. I speak to him a lot, like the, I'm pretty sure he speaks to so many of the guys that he works with, like, all the time. Like, I think he's an unbelievable human being for that. Like, he, no matter what the tournament is, you'll always get just, you know, even just a message saying, you know, giving you those. And it's, you know, the majority

the time. It's always the same things. We know the mental process that we want. We know the attitude that we want. And it's just, and it's just reminders. And then sometimes you want to speak to him a little bit longer. And, you know, throughout all of, or throughout the last few weeks when, I suppose you would say, I've probably had to sort of be a little bit mentally stronger and a bit more resilient coming back from, you know, some losses or some close calls. messaging would always say the same with him always upbeat always positive doing so many of the right things

doing so many good things you know go out enjoy being in the best mindset possible enjoy being in your bubble have a blast doing what you love like all of those things so all the messaging is and all the stuff we talk about is very very consistent and then when you know

when something crops up like travellers or Memphis or even after a win you know like well went was coming up you know we'll talk about that and we'll just get back into that mental process of trying to you know perform as best we can when that comes as well a break here to note again we will not have video unfortunately for the remainder of this podcast but an excellent second half of this podcast that you're going to want to listen to as well also want to give a shout out to our friends

at the stack system you can go to the stack system dot com slash nol you can use code no laying up to get 10% off of a bundle on that website i had i recently was boasting if you will on the most recent ad read saying that I touched 121 miles an hour with driver in my backyard, had some haters in there. I got a little video that might be, might already be out by now, but a little video out there proving that I'm swinging the club actually faster than 121 miles an hour right now in the training program. I was at 117. I think when we started, it speaks to how much this product actually works. I do the training program on a regular basis. It's gamified. It's really fun. It schedules out when you should do the workouts. It tells you what ways to swing, how often

to swing them it tracks your progress gives you encouraging messages throughout and that's all to say there's a wedge system in there there's a putting system in there if you want to get better at golf if you got a limited time to do it the stack system dot com slash nLU code no laying up for 10% off i get so many dms and so many great stories from people about how much they've enjoyed this product and i really truly believe in it stack system dot com slash nLU code no laying up here's tommy fleawood it seems like you really just didn't hearing like i think a lot of times it sounds like cliche almost from other people of hey I'm just going to get back on the horse and learn from this and work harder and everything but even after your win you said it was like what are you going to do you're like

I'm just going to go home and I'm going to start practicing again like and it seems like you truly love the work you love the process and you love it's not just the destination it's the journey and can you just talk talk a little bit about that because I think that's such a refreshing refrain to hear versus, you know, hey, I've reached the mountaintop and you kind of look around and what else is there versus, it seems like you're just constantly trying to improve. Yeah, because, I mean, I do like to read a lot of stuff and listen to a lot of stuff, and I think that's probably a theme that I've jumped on in a way. I think that it's probably right, and I hear a lot of people talk about that, a lot of successful people. And I think, I guess,

I've not reached as many mountain tops as most people or a lot of people or I wouldn't consider myself to have. So, you know, if I, I guess FedEx is one of them, you know, I still feel the same. So that's one thing. But, you know, I have plenty of things that I feel like I want to achieve still in the game. But also, I do love working at my game. And I know that, you know, there's times when, you know, you know, you. you have a great tournament and feel unsatisfied. And there's times when you've not done as well

and you feel like you've done like so many good things. So I, you know, I always kind of use that as an analogy as well and feeling. And yeah, I just get a lot out of trying to be the, like, try and improve every day, try and be the best golfer I can be at some point, whether I've reached my potential or not. I don't know. I definitely don't feel like I have.

I'm enjoying, you know, trying to get there. And I just think, you know, yeah, this, like, it was a winning the tour championship or FedEx Cup or just winning for the first time on the PJ tour. It felt great. Like, it feels amazing. And I'm so glad that I've done it. But I did say, like, you know, for me,

it was never about just winning once. It was just that that one time took so long. it became like a big story and in order to win like multiple times or plenty of times had to win once so that that just felt like a you know it was like a that just came like really difficult in the end or it took a long time but yeah I I really just think you know I I enjoy doing what I'm doing and I enjoy like I you know practicing and playing like I did today like I enjoy that and at no point today was I thinking about you know, I wasn't thinking about Wentworth, I wasn't thinking about the

Rock Cup, I wasn't thinking about the Tour Championship, I was just like playing and practicing and assessing what I was today and tried to get better from it. And I, um, like I like doing that. What's a book or two that you've read lately that sticks out as, hey, this is, this was genuinely impactful. Any recommendations on that front? But listen to some good podcast actually, and I never know the name of podcast. I like, unless it's like you know the ones that are like obvious like a no laying off or something like and I find them and then I listen and then I'm like I'm like I'm like that that was a that was a really good podcast um what book have I read recently um I have actually uh there was one that I was reading so I was reading um so I actually read into the bear trap recently um do remember Mark James Katzen in the Radicaup at Brooklyn this is nothing to do with like self-help books or like thingy but like I read that book, and that was really, really good.

And that's why my mind's gone blanks. That's like the last book that I read, and it was literally during the FedEx playoffs. And that's kind of taken over my mind. I've read these two, like, it's a few books at the moment. And the words, I'm going to have to go get it later for you, or I'll send your pictures of it. We believe you.

They're these like Japanese books, and I never get the words right because they're based on a word and like simple living and stuff like that. I've liked that. There's a good book called Breath. I think that was like that. Because like James Nestor, I think it was. Like it's just, you know, book on breathing and stuff.

Like I liked that. So yeah, I'm like, I'm feeling a lot of rubbish now, actually. Truth is, I never read. I've never read anything. That's it. So I did not know. I did not know that there was a market. James book about

about Brookline. I've got to get, I've got to buy this immediately and read it. Sure enough, I just Googling the description of it. You can't read it. It's,

it's really good. In the description, it says that the people ran through Ola Thabble's line, which again, the video does not, does not support, but it's been this narrative

for 25, 26 years now. And literally in the actual description of the book, it's his old Thabble still has a put to keep the writer cup alive, but several jubilant Americans have already run

straight across his line destroying his concentration in the process that's my favorite i got to read this immediately Tommy what's been uh from a from a game perspective your putting seems to be like just like the floor is a lot higher and we saw it in memphis we saw it at east lake like it it just seems like your stroke whether it's the mallet or your stroke itself or your green reading like what what's been the biggest change or transformation on that front yeah I mean, the putter has definitely had a big impact. Like I, after the Masters,

I went on to the putting green at Hilton Head on Monday. And I felt like, so I never feel like my putting gets much credit. And I never feel like I'm as bad of a putter as like I sort of. And maybe I have that little like chip on my shoulder or narrative about it. at times, like there's times when obviously I've put it poorly. But I've also feel like I've had some really good seasons put in and it goes unnoticed at times. But this year I was like, I was putting up at start of the year.

But I wasn't putting great. Like I was putting fine. And I just, after the Masters, where I didn't feel like I put it particularly well, I went to the putting green at Hilton Eds on Monday. And Adrian and James were there from Taylor May. So James is the Taylor May put a guy. And I just said,

you know what? I want to try a few different putters, and it's literally just for a different feel, like a different energy on the greens, because I feel like I'm doing all the right things, but something's just not clicking at the moment, and I just want to change that. I just want a different energy.

So anyway, I ended up with... So that's what I ended up with. I ended up with the Black Spider, and we ended up drawing these lines on it because there was a particular putter that I liked, which had some milling in the top, which made lining up, like, it just made a really big, thick line.

line and it made lining up easy so I went and um put it with that hill and I'd put it really nice and then just kind of kept putting well and I think confidence has been really good like Memphis B&W like Eastlake felt really really good on the greens like just felt really confident I was I was reading them really well and I think um like had a great routine to put in well my pace like one of the things that always working on with with Phil and and even but like having conversations, you know, wanting that pace to be as consistent as possible and almost just being a bit more aggressive, really, like putting a bit more aggressively and feel like I've been doing that. But yeah, like it's definitely had a monumental improvement

since moving to that spider putter. But like I say, I feel like I have like put it well in the past and sort of I always feel like I maybe, it goes a notice at times. But yeah, like this this year or this summer has definitely been the best I've put it by quite our way. On the ride home, like you flew back to England, you know, a few hours after East Lake. I remember sitting in the clubhouse with Finno having a beer. And he's like, all right, we got to go to the airport. And it was you and Rosie. And I think Shane, all you guys were on the, you know, on the flight together.

Was that a party or was that just a total release of like, all right, I got to just go to bed. I'm exhausted. yeah i was um like by the time we'd done everything i mean i was like i i can't sit off to the airport without showering like there's no chance so i had like a a two-minute shower like threw some clothes on and we got to the airport checked in went through i um so there was uh just in so i actually randomly bumped into them just by mistake just in shane oh no it wasn't shane it was shane's Kelly Darren, Shane had gone to Florida. Of course, yeah, Bob was there, and I sat down.

I had one beer, got on the plane, and then I sat there, and I was like, I'm not moving anywhere. Like, there was no party. Tried to sleep, didn't really sleep very well. I was just excited to get home and see everyone because Claire and Mo and Frankie had sort of missed out on being there, and there was me and Oscar there, and I just wanted to get home and see everyone. So I was pretty tired.

at the end of it and yeah it was more of a just like soak in the moment just relax like take it in it was it was really nice well i i've managed to make it about 30 minutes without bringing up my favorite topic which is the upcoming rider cup of course i'm curious you know with europe we're recording this on wednesday europe finalized their their captain's picks this past monday it is almost the exact same team that we saw in rome just changing out a nick a adding in Erasmus taking away and Nikolai. Do players have any input on who they'd like to be captain's picks?

Are you guys involved in that process at all, kind of that communication, that conversation, does it get down to who you'd want to be paired with and matched up with? I'm curious your kind of input or how the captains communicate that with you guys. No, no. Captain's picks literally are, you know,

captain's picks, that's the whole point of them and that's what they are. But as players, you don't really, yeah, you don't have any input in that. I think there's probably past Rider Cups or, you know, the captain and the vice captains will look at definite, like, certain relationships with players or past Rider Cups and partnerships

and things like that. But, but no, like from a, from a player's perspective, like, no, I have no say or, nor do I, you know, want any say in any of the picks or anything like that. there was a colleague of ours asked a question in your press conference during the tour championship about what captains have done to set you up for success and you started to tell a story about why you were sent out in a specific spot in the singles order and you kind of veered off and didn't finish the answer as to why I think you were sent out

11th is do I remember that right and kind of what was the communication as to why that was and I was curious your answer on that no it was I think what I said was so I played 11 at Whistling Straits and you know me and Jordan played together and it was it just wasn't a great spot to be in for that one because

you know we struggled as a team so then the rider cut was done sort of early on in that singles so then like for us being at the back you know you have you have pride in your point of course you do and you want to play well

but it's a bit deflating then being at the back, either deflating or, you know, or won the right cup. And then on the Saturday night, I think, you know, the singles straw hadn't come out yet,

and I think it was, I think I said it to Claire or something. And I said, you know, I feel like I know where Luke's going to put me, and I don't really want to go there. Like, I played 11th last time.

We just got this feeling. I'm going to go out, like, back end again, like 11. And she's like, a while I was like well you know if we start off great like radical will be over and I kind of you know I'll want to celebrate at that

point or you know I'm not I won't be really that interested in my point but then actually could come down to us at that like back there and if if it does like oh no it's kind of a lot like there's a lot of pressure at that point like it's not gone how we want it to go and like we were laughing about it in the

team room me Shane and Bob about being at the back and stuff anyway um like I I said that to Claire. I'd not said anything to anybody else really about it. Again, like that, and then the draw comes out, 11th. And so anyway, like, I really didn't mention it. I didn't say anything about it. But Claire must have told Luke, because at the end of it, all or walking off the 70th,

actually, I didn't see anybody for ages. So, like, 16 was where we, you know, we guaranteed the point. But then 17, I went and finished the match on 17. but everybody had gone pretty much like I did an interview on the 17th hole where there's crowd around and I turned around and there was like we were just stuck on the 17th green

and everybody had gone like there was nobody there so I didn't see anybody for ages and when I did see Luke he said I wish you could remember the exact words but he was like you know are you happy that I put you out number 11

or not too upset that you're out 11th now or something like that like it was a really good moment and he probably said you know the confidence he had him me to put me back there and stuff and how it all worked out so um so that was that that was a you know just a good example of like like i say like you you have ultimate trust in your captain and um it did work out in the end Tommy do you do you prep for a rider cup any differently

than a individual stroke play golf tournament well the rider cup is like um the week of it is just so different to anything that we experience like we can even leading into the week like prior to the week starting yeah I don't I don't think so I think you practice on your game um as you normally would like maybe think about the course

because we'll know we'll know the course at that point in the week leading up to it and think about that or what you might want to work on certain holes or you know certain type of puts but no I um no I

I don't really feel like I do anything that differently. I sort of kind of, I try and believe that you go in there and you try and everything about that week is trying to play your game, which is almost the hardest thing to do, right? Like in the circumstance, but play your game.

And for me, like mentally part of that is preparing the way that I would always prepare. Because when you get to the Radical Cup, like there's no, none of that time is your own time. Like you're not on any, you don't have anything like that.

You'll have a couple of sections. like little pockets of time where you can practice, but the rest of it is obviously so much going on in terms of practice rounds with the team, team meetings, media, dinners, like things like that. So you sort of have to be ready to, you know, wherever your game is at going into the right of cook. That's like, you know, you want it to be in a pretty good spot

and not be worrying about it. So, yeah, I just think I practice how I would normally practice and go and try and play my game. you've been a part of two triumphant teams at home in Europe you've been a part of one road team that was not triumphant at whistling straits what do you take from the whistling straits is that the experience you draw on like are the home and away rider cups two totally different experiences in terms of what it takes to win and what did you what do you take away from being on the losing

side of one of these into the next one to you know to say like all right well this this time around we need to do this differently yeah i i still take away like whistling demonstrates, you know, for the result that we had, and I think, you know, a lot of us in that team didn't feel like we did ourselves justice in the way that we played, or we didn't do Europe justice in the, and we just couldn't play like we wanted to, but had the most unbelievable time. And what I, what I did feel in that Rider Cup was we were getting beat from the get-go, so we didn't really get out of the blocks. Obviously, in a way, Rider Cup. So, support is not in your favour.

How much we came together as a team, how much we drew on like whatever the good stuff was we could find in that week and the positives and half points, points, little moments, like times that we spent with the team,

like we drew on all of those things, which were an unbelievable experience. And I've always said, you know, I don't have a favourite rider cup out of the three. I've loved them all so much for,

different reasons in each one. And Whistlin Strakes was one of them. And yeah, it's a completely different, you know, test. Like the home crowd, as it should, I think plays a big part in the Rider Cup. And I think it should do that. That's part of what the dream is and the experience is that you get to go into these snows that we don't get to do like week and week out. Like the Rider Cup is so special to us because, you know,

those Home Rider Cup, you get to experience. it with that home crowd they lift you on their shoulders you ride their momentum when it's going well and they can pick you up when it's going bad and um for an away rider cup you're obviously playing it playing against those exact same things but um dreamt about playing rider cups all our lives and uh and away one is is just exactly the same as that like you still dreamt about it you still dreamt about that atmosphere um you know does it get any bigger than new york as well that's going to be amazing and yeah i'm i'm i'm really really excited to go there and play this one is it is it truly that much more in intimidate i guess you know you're talking about the the home crowd you know

you're riding their shoulders you know into hitting good i'm always curious like how does this translate into good golf shots or bad golf shots right like is it that much more intimidating to play in front of a crowd that that's rooting against you is it the you know the insults that are hurled at you is it the you know i'm just curious yeah i don't i don't think it's It's an intimidating thing because, like, it's just not, like, as in, I mean, like, it's not the intimidation factor that you worry about. I think it's more of the, obviously, the momentum that the crowd can create. Like, you hit a great shot in a home rider cup, it obviously gets an unbelievable reception,

and you feel like you've hit a better shot than maybe you have, hit some unbelievable shots in an away one, and it'll be a lot quieter. And I think things like that, you know, I think, I think that obviously plays a role in it, So momentum is like a very, it's not a real thing, but it is a very real thing. Of course it is. And I think that's the best way to describe it. But, you know, that's why you come together as a team and you use each other for that and you enjoy that. And like I say, enjoy that atmosphere.

I think the crowd is always, the crowd loved that they can get involved, I think, and that they can create those moments. and I think as a player like you love that as well because it's so unique in our sport and it's so unique to the rider cup but yeah they just play a big role in momentum I think and how it feels

Tommy looking ahead at next year 2026 majors you've got Augusta obviously but then you've got Chinnecock where you've played well you've got Aronamink for the PGA and then a home game for you at Birkdale. Do you put extra pressure on a place like Burkdale and how do you approach that one?

Or is it similar to how you approach the rest of them? No, I would say I've been lucky. Like, I'm so lucky with where I grew up and you look at, you know, I would consider an open at Hoy Lake, a home venue. You know, and then there's Burkdale, which is literally my hometown. You know, if there was an open at Lytum,

that would be a home venue. you as well. You've got these three places that are so close to where I grew up and I'm so lucky and so blessed that I get to, you know, the event that I feel like I, um, love the most or put on a pedestal. I get to play, you know, the odd one at home. And I think that's very, very special. And there's, I think it's, you know, you have to deal with your own expectations and and the hope that you have because, um, is, is there, again, you talk about dreams for, and being a kid like my god

standing on the 18th being at Burtale like with a quiet joke it's like off the charts like how that makes me feel but um so there's like controlling that side of it and managing that

but also it's a huge gift that you get to play in front of a home crowd and you get to do that and play that tournament most the majority of people you know go the whole lives without being able to play an event

that they would call like a home event and let alone like have the chance to do it a few times and it being literally in that in you know my hometown and it be the open so yeah it's a very special time for me I feel like I'm very lucky and I think as as I continue to sort of get experience in that situation like Birddale in 2017 and I've played Hoylake twice now I think knowing how important it is to enjoy and embrace it

and use it as a positive and use it as an advantage because it is is so crucial because everybody's there and they just want you know they want the best way they want the world for you and it's very very lucky it seems like a great course fit for you too i was going to say and that dream tc is going to be by that green too but that claret drug i promise you that uh tc can be a you know south uh we call a sandgrounder it would be that's what people from southport called so you'll be a adopted Sand Grounder for that, for that week. Yeah, I haven't played it since the changes, actually.

So I'm actually, when I do get the chance, I'm looking forward to seeing the new layout of Burk now. How do you, from a home perspective, like your coach lives in Vegas, got a place in Dubai, like you play a lot of golf in the States. How do you manage just traveling all over the world and your blocks of time in different regions of the world?

Uh, yeah, I should do it. Um, you know, I'm always like, I'm always very aware that, you know, I never complain about the amount of travel I do. Um, I'm always aware that I always have a choice. I could not travel. I could not play if that's really what I wanted or what we wanted. Um, so yeah, we just, we just manage it as best we can. Uh, kids are, you know, kids are obviously in school in Dubai and, uh, that's where, you know, we've decided to base ourselves for the time being. I, you know, I, you know, get over to Vegas as much as I can, which is a handful of times a little bit more than that throughout the year and try and find those pockets. Playing on the PJ tour a lot, so then you get these, like the early part of the season, I think the schedules,

I remember looking at schedule and I haven't like delved into it much yet, but it's a bit different next year. So that's obviously the first thing I look at. I'm like, you know, how am I going to get home or how am I going to structure it to get home? And then there's always like a big bulk in the middle of the year where I'm in America for a few weeks and playing tournaments and I'll get one week off,

but I'm not going to travel home for a week. And I have friends that I'll stay with and hang out. But it's always been fine. Like, we've not had an issue with it yet. My family are very supportive. And yeah, we've just always made it work. And like I say, I'm always aware I'm never going to be one of those that complain about travel or schedule

because if you didn't want or you don't have to. like nobody's you know forcing you so you're looking for three three to four week blocks and then if you don't have at least 10 days you're not going home yeah exactly if possible like three weeks or four weeks is perfect and then you know you'd get two weeks at home and then travel back out again and there has been you know the last few years there's always like a seven or eight week block that I'm out there and if I manage to get family out there for one of those weeks it's a it's a bonus really it's good if we can do that awesome uh it's Speaking of just managing your schedule, when are we doing our lefty match?

And tell me about what do you... Well, no, I have to improve a little bit. And before that, like, do you know what's really interesting about it? It's like, what I'm trying to describe it as to people is like, so my right-handed golf is like my job. And I don't get time to like practice left-handed. It's not like I can throw everything at it. So any time, pretty much. any time I do something left-handed, I'm just going to film it and video it, like, having it

balls for a while. Like, I've just played the playoffs and everything. Uh, I haven't it, shots left-handed for, for a little bit now. So I'll, you know, I had a lesson. I did whatever, like, hit some balls, but I'm just going to be back to square one when I do hit shots again, but like, everybody will see it. So are you getting lessons from Butch left-handed? No, I had, I actually, so I actually called me. So I've done that video. So that, The lesson, the video, the YouTube video that's just come out, I had a lesson with Michael Sweeney as, like, head of performance at TFA in Dubai, and he was really good.

But I get this phone call off Butch, and he's like, you're playing golf left-handed now? And I was like, well, I was like, just hear me out. He's like, what are you doing? I don't get it. And I was like, well, just hear me out. It's just a bit fun. It's just something I, like, wanted to do and everything.

And then, you know, I sort of talked him, talked him through it a little bit. and then he's going to give me, he will give me a lesson. I'm going to have to get my left-handed set to Vegas, and it'll give me a lesson. I truly believe it's, it's like, I think it helped my right-handed game a bunch. It balanced my body out.

It helped my course management. Yeah, well, we'll see that the first session that I did, again, I filmed it, put it on there, like after half an hour or 20 minutes, my right ankle was on fire. like loading it, loading, like, hitting through the shot into my, into my right side. I was like, oh, my God, this is like, and I'll just power through it and stuff. But yeah, it's, it's different, it's different, man.

And the thing is, like, I've got no idea, like, what to do. Like, whatever I do right-handed, I can fix it. Like, I'm not saying I'm going to get a perfect shot straight after it, but I can do something different. I've got no idea, left-handed. I've got, like, just no idea. And it's kind of a... Not your shots yet? Yeah, I was all right out of the bunker.

Because bunker was the thing that for me that was... You'd just go in there. You just be there for like a week. He would not go. I always say whenever I'm trying to give lessons like in a bunker, I'm like, well, bunker plays like the easy bit because you don't hit the ball. Like that's the one that's easy. And then I got in there left handed.

I was like, oh, no, no, no. This isn't, this doesn't feel good. Because you feel that resistance and it's totally, because I've always been a good bunker player. right-handed. I'm like, oh, like, Bunker plays easy. It's simple. And then I finally identified with higher handicaps. It's like, oh, wait, no, it's not. Yeah, it feels awful. Yeah. Tommy, have you had a chance to meet with the new PGA Tour CEO, Brian Rolap? I know he's been trying to meet with as many guys as possible. One have you. And if you haven't, what's, what are your

biggest priorities? What's on your list of things to talk to him about of how he could improve the PGA tour? No, I, I've met him twice, but we've never like. like, you know, never sat down and spoke or never spoke over the phone. He was there at the tour championships and everything. And I think it seems like a, you know, a really, really impressive guy. And I feel like without, you know, without understanding details and without knowing any of that stuff, he seems like he's kind of hit the ground running and he's saying the right things and all of that. And he sounds really good.

I, do you know, of course I have. an interest in what happens on the PJ tour but I have no interested in making those decisions or saying or like you know coming up with those ideas I just it's it's it's just never something that I felt like I've never had the mindset for it or the or like the mental capacity to like you know being somebody from you know, from England, from DP World Tour, you know, then a move to Dubai, you know, I love the fact that I can play on the PJ tour and I've always enjoyed, there's never been the time where I've not enjoyed, like, being at a PJ Tour event and getting the chance to play, like, you know, against all these best players. And, I just, you know, I, obviously there's been changes and it's been, it's been really good for us. The changes have been good for the guys that, um, again like very lucky i've played you know all you know almost all the elevated events i've

you know had that perfect schedule i've had that i've been able to play the majors and on all of that stuff so it's it's easy for me to say like you know it's it's all great but you know i thought it was great before as well so like whatever the changes have been like you know again i know i'm lucky and and i've always been able to play why i want to play but um i don't know whatever the changes are I will show up and I'll work and I'll play and I'll still enjoy like trying to enhance my career but we'll see I feel like the tour's in a really great spot and like yeah we'll see Tommy have you been to the new Everton Stadium yet not since it's finished no I am I went when it was getting constructed and then I watched well I was watching them play

writing at home the morning of the Sunday of tour champs and stuff. And then they played a league cup game there. But no, I haven't been since it's been done and like since it's been full and everything. But everybody's like raving about this place. They say it's unbelievable. It looks awesome. Yeah. Last one I got for you.

Tommy, who's the most interesting person you heard from after your win at the Tour Championship? That's a tough one. You can name a couple if you need to. Well, no, like a lot of guys that, I mean, like, sporting people that, you know, people would be interesting, like, you know, Raffin Adal, Michael Phelps, like, obviously a ton of, like, tour players that, you know, which is really cool. I think the coolest thing is when your peers, like, text you and message you and say, you know,

and say congratulations and things like that. So many, you know, so many friends and stuff. But I think, you know, what struck me was, like, just the amount of people that seemed to just become invested in the story and me, like, winning that golf tournament. That took me a back, and that was, like, that was, you know, the coolest thing for me was people from, like I said, people from as close to me as possible, like, but then throughout the world as well. and that was like by far and away the coolest thing for me

was just the amount of people that seemed to just become invested in that story and we're so happy. It's a reflection. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a reflection of how you treat people.

I go off because I didn't see anything to that, but like LeBron Tiger clearly part. Yeah, it was pretty good. Cool. Well, hey, we appreciate you spending some time with this. Wishing you personally from me, the best of luck at the upcoming Rider Cup, even if I'm not necessarily rooting for your team

to be the victorious team. That's okay. I'll let you off down. So I appreciate your time, but good catch up and congrats on everything. We're really happy for you. Thanks, guys. Thank you so much.