No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1079: Ryder Cup Loose Ends, Sand Valley + Weekly Recap

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

DJ, Tron and Randy open the pod with a quick trip around the world of pro golf with a recap of the Sanderson, KFT, Euro, LPGA and Champions tours before we review a litany of post Ryder Cup news and notes including fallout at the PGA of America, leadership of future US teams, the week of Don Rea, and various social media posts and articles. We also talk to Randy about his recent trip to Sand Valley, some personal golf updates and upcoming content releases.  Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support our Sponsors: Footjoy The Stack If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. I mean, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast.

My name is DJ. We got a fun one tonight for you guys. I don't know if we're going to do two hours on the Sanderson Farms necessarily, but we're going to get to that. We're going to talk about that. Stephen Fiske and his two shot win there. And then we've got a lot of other stuff to get to this. Might end up feeling a little bit more like a trap draw chop session. And I think for that reason, I've got the perfect crew here.

TC, just giddy with the agenda that he's put together tonight. I've been weirdly locked in all week. I've been at home, been just trying to, trying to get the base all riled up on the Don Reese stuff. I think I've succeeded. And I don't know how I don't know how plugged in Randy's been, though, which is good.

Of course he will be the third chair tonight. Big Randy fresh off of a trip to the great state of Wisconsin, but we got to play a little golf together this week. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about other trips. Big is taken to our beautiful state practice. practically a resident at this point now. Randy, how are you, my man?

I'm good. Yeah, I got another trip coming to Wisconsin this weekend. It is crazy. I'm rotten with trips to Wisconsin. It is great to get there. We had a good time earlier this week. Listen, I think TC watched the most golf. So if

you're here for like the hardcore Sanderson breakdown, that's TC. That's not me. I can't give that to you. So I'm looking I'm looking to pick my spots elsewhere, and I think there are a few that I can get involved. Well, we are going to talk about the world of golf. Like I said, we're going to talk about the Sanderson.

We're going to talk about the Dunhill, talk a little corn fairy, little LPGA. And then I think we're going to talk, San Valley. Randy, you know, you took a big, you know, capital B, capital T buddies trip to San Valley recently and kind of got us thinking we hadn't really done a lot on the podcast about sand valley and kind of all the things that have coalesced there since a lot of our you know a lot of people's last visits and since we rolled out a couple videos from there and so it's uh it's a good week to do that especially dropping our par three championship video that uh yours truly was depanced in uh recently so we can talk about that and then we got a lot of just rider cup

loose ends that we're going to get to a lot of people tweeting stuff a lot of people writing stuff a lot of people posting on LinkedIn. It's just going to be a lot to get to, which we will get to in the second half. But before we get there, I'm not sure if any of you listening play golf this weekend, pretty ideal weather for for most of the country up here in Wisconsin. It was an absolute joke the past week, just 76 and sunny. We know that's not going to last forever. You know, T.C. is going to have lovely playing conditions all year round. But for many of us, the season starts to become a bit more unpredictable this time of year. Golf, you got to find the right golf gear. And you can extend the season, make every day playable with our friends at

Footjoy. Only Footjoy. Creates the shoes, gloves, apparel and outerwear to play comfortably in any conditions. They just added the fall collection to the website. So there's so much new stuff for men and women, new premiere series, new traditions, one of my favorites, new hyperflex shoes, New Thermo Series, T.C. I think you're rolling with the thermo series right now. Yeah, I got the hybrid vest on right now. And it's been really miserable here. Actually, the last like 10 days, just been raining just onshore. We had that hurricane offshore kind of churning stuff up in the Atlantic. So we've had winds coming off the ocean for the last week plus. And I got the new Dryjoy's Select LX jacket, which perfect for these kind of fall shoulder seasons. Randy, you've been playing all kinds of golf.

What's been the footwear choice for you? Yeah, I will shout these. I try to shout these out honestly anytime we do a foot joy ad. The quantums are so, so comfortable. A great walking shoe. We walked in Wisconsin. I actually played earlier this morning as part of our roost. We got an event going on there, walked 18 holes.

My feet, they truly are, like, have struggled with other shoes with comfort. but the quantums are awesome. So if you're looking for a good walking shoe, I would definitely point people that direction. And if you're looking to get beyond shoes, like I said, new shirts, new pants, new midlayers, hoodies, all kinds of different stuff, everything you need to play golf,

no matter where you live. So don't give up yet. There's plenty of golf still to be played. Go get decked out. Footjoy.com to check out all the new fall arrivals. Guys, mention this off the top. Stephen Fisk, your winner at the Sanderson Farms. PJ Tour rookie wins in his 24th start.

It shoots a final round 64 to win by two birdie. The last three holes had a hell of a back nine in that 64. I would be lying if I said I knew a ton about Stephen Fisk coming in. T.C., anything you could shed light on? Georgia Southern guy, and he's from up north of Atlanta. His parents owned a par three in a driving range. I was going to ask you, have you ever been to Rum Creek Golf Course? I haven't. I haven't. You know what? It sounds like.

It sounds like Blah, or Don Ray. That's, I know. He owns a driving range. Augusta something. Yeah. Augusta Ranch, I think. Augusta Ranch, that's right. Yeah, you know what? I was, I was poking around for something. I was on the Rum Creek Golf Course website, just like trying to learn a little bit about this place. It seems like his parents still own it. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. But it just looks like a true grow the game factory out there, a little par three course driving range. giving lessons, having events, junior programs.

It was a, it was a fun little, like, not an academy kid, not a, anything like that. Just like, seems like he came from just a very cool story. And, yeah, happy for, happy for Stephen Fisk on his way. T.C. 28 years old, he's grinded a few years on Corn Ferry Tour. I think he did a season on PGA Tour Canada, you know, not a, like, he was a really good college player, but not a. not a, you know, sure thing by any stretch. So I always like those kind of late bloomers who just incrementally improve year after year.

And congrats to him. T.C., do you know I'm on the Georgia Southern website when he was here. They list his hometown as Stockbridge, Georgia, and his high school is Dutchtown. Do any of those ring a bell to you? Stockbridge does. I'm not familiar with Dutchtown, though.

Okay. And then your next visit, back to the homeland. Yeah. You know, like, weirdly, I watched a lot of this tournament yesterday and today, and a couple, like, weird rulings in there. Garrick Higo, or was it Higo and Eric Cole had a- Yeah, touching balls in the bunker there, I think. And then Lassasso got pinched for the amateur, who's the odds on favor to be like the new Patrick Reed on tour. In true Patrick Reed fashion, he got pinched for, what was it, rule? 8.1a.

Yeah, I think so. Which is, you know, he can't improve lie. So I'm told they got him on that with the Shotlink Tower cams. And, you know, that was strange. Danny Walker, Randy, made a record-breaking number of putts. This is incredible. Yeah. I had this in my notes as well, T.C.

451 feet of putts in the first three rounds. most feet of putts made through three rounds in the shot link era randy over the first three rounds made eight putts from outside 25 feet that's so many that's what a you never know when you're going to get a good you know feats made of putt week uh just a random sanderson that's that's that's why you're going to watch every event make a bigger deal of that yeah you never know what you're going to be you're going to be witness in history tc had a couple other couple other notes i didn't realized Doc Redmond had not played a PJ tour event since 2023. Monday qualified in when 7565

make the cut on the number. Love that. He's not a medical professional. I got to remind people about that this week? Or just you're just to general. I think so. I just got to remind people he's not a medical professional. Real quick on Danny Walker, sorry, because the PJ Tour now has this in their stats package. Round four, he made 64 feet, six inches of putts. Yeah, zero putts outside 25 feet.

Yeah, I don't know how that stacks up over four rounds. Tell you who didn't make a lot of putts, I think outside of about five feet, Michael Thorbjornson. Like one of the craziest ball striking putting or just general short game total disparities I've ever seen. He gained four shots off the tee for the week, five and a half shots approaching the greens. He was fourth and fifth in those categories. you lost almost three around the green and he lost almost four putting that's tough

finished T-29 with you know basically dead last in the field and both of those things so what do you guys think I wish there was a way amateurs could could track feet of putts made I think you probably can

yeah I need you getting the note tab manual big I know have to step it off each one if I just had a tape measure or like a laser system I real quick guys before I put it just in case this goes in got to shoot it or you just keep the mark down and then if you make it you go that's a good idea

yeah that's a good idea tc do we we've kind of gotten to the point of the of the season not season zombie season fedex cup fall it kind of it counts you can improve your ranking but not not if you were in the top 50 just all these kinds of we're kind of into procedural uh zn i would say which if you're into that kind of thing it's you know as always fun to watch these and if you're not enjoy watching football, enjoy playing in the leaves, do whatever you'd like to do this time a year. Any other big picture thoughts on kind of the fall or this event or where, is this event sticking around? What is the future of this event? I think this event's going away. I think this was the last one. So apologies to everybody who's a big fan of the chicken championship.

I believe Wayne Sanderson. I wasn't familiar with Wayne particularly. I was familiar with Sanderson Farms, but not Wayne in particular. They will not be sponsoring this next year. And I just can't imagine that the Jackson, Mississippi, fits in with Brian Rolap's vision of a, of a global sports property. Yeah, yeah, which is... Nothing against Jackson, Mississippi, because I like, I like this, I like this course. It's a good host venue.

Like, it's a proper court. I mean, Stephen Fisk, proper player. you just can't really putt normally and he putted this week. Yeah. I think this event is, yeah, it's a weird one. It's kind of a little bit of a home of some harsh truths probably. And it's like, Randy got me, this is a weird connection. Randy got me a book when I saw him this week.

And Randy, I started reading it. It's very thoughtful. And it's basically about the kind of decimation of minor league baseball. And in 2022, when MLB went from like, 140 MLB or minor league teams to 120 and what happened to those other 20 cities and you know I'm only 50 pages in or whatever but it's it's kind of the out the whole idea is you know as much as these things just kind of look like a line on a spreadsheet it's also kind of taken away the opportunity that kids have to see future major leaguers and you know a night out at the ballpark

that's affordable and all those things and so that's it's just hard not to feel like exactly the same way about some of these PJ tour events where I'm like man should they exist in the in the vision of a big bright PJ tour future like probably not but are there people there that love it and probably get a ton out of it and and all the charity aspects of it and like yeah definitely and so I think those two things I certainly won't pretend to have the right answer but it does uh I don't know it just kind of ties you into knots at least a little bit I feel like it's kind of how I always feel watching these events I don't think that's unfair at all I think that's probably pretty spot on actually Pat Battle the guy that uh rolled up a lot of

things big augusta guy uh a lot of those minor league tournaments i mean what's the what's the solution does the does the corn fairy tour get bigger and more wide ranging i also find it a little bit outrageous that the mini tour like that like the one big mini tour is is in canada and latin america yeah i totally feel the same way that was going to be my you know with six seconds of thought here is like shooting from the hip it's yeah almost like high How do you, is there a big difference if you are in Jackson, Mississippi, between seeing Garrick Higo and seeing somebody who's good enough to play on, you know, the equivalent of PJ Tour Canada, PJ Tour to Latin America?

Probably not, you know? And so, yeah, I don't know if you can just get a little bit more of a grassroots American tour kind of under the PGA tour flag. That's still not the corn, not the Corn Ferry Tour. I don't know. I'm kind of grasping it at stuff here. but it's uh i get it it's a business and they need to figure out what works but it's just a i don't know you can feel a lot less focus group of one here you can just feel a lot less energy about these

types of events uh i feel like then even you felt seven eight years ago and when everything was equal yeah and that i mean again that's probably the right call but it does just kind of stink for the people and places that are involved so weird tangent there i wasn't expected to go Oh, good. I think it's kind of the tour being ripped at the seams and probably should have happened a long time ago and they kept it together for as long as they could. But for as much as valuable as it is, you know,

for a market like this, I think it also does a disservice to some of the bigger events on tour to pretend like everything is the same. No, for sure. Absolutely. Moving down the line on the corn fairy tour, Your guy, ADDC, TC, just an actual clinic. They're not done yet. He's on 18 right now.

He's going to shoot 61, 61, 64, it looks like 65 or minus 33 for a 7 or 8 shot win over Marty Dow. So just I think this is what the prophecy foretold. It's just been delete a little bit. Get him on the team. Get him on the team is right. He started 26th on the points, Liz, this week, up to sixth with the win. So get him on the team. Got some other guys jockeying to get in that, I think it's top 75,

get into next week, the Corn Ferry Tour Championship. And then, you know, so James Nicholas went from 78 to 62nd. What else? We got Dylan Wu jumped up. He's had kind of a controversial year. Cole Hammer jumped into the top 70s. as well. So some topsy-turviness there. But yeah, it just doesn't seem like all that serious of a golf course, the Patriot Golf Club in Owasso, Oklahoma, Randy. Are you familiar?

I'm not, but I need to be. Yeah, from one Patriot to another. I need to... How many birdies do you think you've made this year, Randy? Well, I can tell you exactly. 37, I believe. All right, Adrian Dumondie. H.S. Art has made 32 birdies this week. This week. He's playing easier golf courses than Randy, though. Like, that's the hard part.

He's got, I've made 36. He's got a bit more tools in the toolkit than I do. I feel like, yeah, Randy's played proper golf courses, though. Actually, he's just made those, those 32 birdies and two Eagles in the last four days. I imagine he made more in the pro am and the practice rounds and all of that. as well so what a he thought speaking of which davis chatfield shot 59 down at the at the patriot happy for all the 59 celebrators i you know i feel like whenever we're on this podcast we're like man 59s don't seem like they really mean anything anymore a lot of pushback people just celebrating in the

streets so i hope everybody really uh got the picnic tables out he shot 59 finished minus 20 15 people really do do they get on you when you i just remember uh when it was, God, I feel horrible. This is going to prove my exact point. That's right. The guy who shot 59 at John Deere. Hayden Springer shot 59 at John deer a couple years ago and I remember we had a little bit

of a like, is this a thing? Remember when they used to break into coverage and like people stop at the office and I mean it was just like the biggest deal ever. And yeah, I just remember getting a weird amount of pushback on you know, just like this is the most impressive thing ever and you're totally given

short shrift. Which like, listen, you still got to get the ball in the hole. I got no, it's super impressive. It's just not as fun anymore, I think was my larger point. But yeah, anyways, I think that. TC, speaking of the Ryder Cups, speaking to get them on the team, you know, you know, when you, you're playing like an event or something and you make a birdie and you got to validate it on the next hole for it to, like to really count, that's what your guy, big shot Bob

just did at the Dunhill. Just, you know, was it short into 54 holes? Yes, not his fault. Weather was awful. Absolutely. Absolutely washout over there in Scotland. But Big Shot Bob prevails. Rider Cup teammates playing well.

That was that had to fill up the heart. It did. 66 6666. Wow. And we'll give him an honor. Is it now the Bob? For the, you know, the round that was canceled. Finished up on the old course today.

You know, just just a proper, proper win. for the Dunhill links over at Karnusti and King's Barnes and in the old, you know, I'm trying to forget from my memory that Bob was slagging off the road hole. Was that last year or two years? Last year. So it should be blown up. So it's just not a good hole from the back to you. So.

And he bogeed it today as well. Hated that. He finished four ahead of Tyrell, five ahead of John Perry and the great man, Richard Sterney. And, you know, we had Jacob Scob Olison, Christopher Rytan, Brooks played. I think this is one of Brooks's favorite events of the year. Tom McKibbon played. Matt Fitzpatrick turned up.

Tommy turned up. They both finished T-21. Just props to them for showing up this week, bleary-eyed after the celebration, after that long bus ride, singing all the songs. and they rocked up and they got it done. And your guy Rasmus played well in Mississippi. We didn't mention that. But only other note from the Dunhill in a note,

you know, in a harbinger of perhaps things to come, we had a shot of Yasser out of social media. It always plays in the Dunhill. Up on the stage, singing not necessarily karaoke, but very much kind of a background singer in what looked like some sort of gala or, you know, post around cocktail, party or something singing sweet caroline i know randy that's one of your favorites but a lot of uh just a

lot of leading men uh karaoke this week which we're gonna which we're going to which we're going to get to ray who's up there with yohan rupert is that who was up there too yeah yeah they're just trying to trying to bring everything back together also i i didn't want to call out that harrison crow won the uh won the the the pro am portion he was the pro he was the pro he won with j p mcmanis's son-in-law Harrison Crow finished minus four, and as a team, they finished 33 under. Oh, whoa. It's tough to beat. Potentially a bandit there.

That was just a career week. Just couldn't stop, you know, could stop filling it up. Can you imagine, though, if it was a career week? He's played off a plus eight. Just, yeah, just couldn't stop making birdies. Well, congratulations to them. Harrison Crow, it sounds like kind of another one for our professor. professional golfer or country music star game round two about it could be trace crows brother exactly randy

what happened on the lpGA the lpGA they were in hawaii they were on awahu the latte championship guys lute lute there's like six companies in korea lotte 26 different winner this year in 25 events we had another new winner on the l pGA she wouldn't even member of the LPGA. It's Yu Min Huang. She is Korean. She got a sponsor invite. She plays her golf on the Korean LPGA. She won by one shot over Hu Zhu Kim. And props to Huang, she birdied the last four holes and five out of her last six holes to win by one shot. So with the win, she gets the choice. She can either accept full LPGA membership immediately. There's is like a deferral where I think she would start her quote unquote rookie year next year

or she can choose to stay in Korea if that's what she wishes. But parity is out of control to her. It sucks. Like it truly sucks. It was like fun for a little and now we're just like, this isn't it. So other big names, Nellie Korda was over here. She finished tied for fourth at 14 under three shots back. The EY twins were involved.

Akié finished in that tied for fourth group. Nasa Hataoka was tied for eighth. Where did Chasato, EY, Oshy dropped off? T14, yeah. 71, 71 on the weekend. Top 10. So, yeah, they're now that they're kind of using Hawaii as a, As a midway point, the LPGA now goes over to Asia for their second Asia swing of the year

before finishing back in Florida in November. I'm fascinated to see what Craig Kessler does with the schedule too. I feel like I'm asking kind of an impossible question here, Big, but anything you can chalk up the parody to, is this like a, just a freak storm? Is this someone's injured who would be Hoover and up tournaments? Is this someone can't, like, I don't. know like i said i is there anything glaring i guess or or what's your best guess yeah i think it's just like everything all of it all i i mean i i think you start with nelly like for nelly not to have

won a tournament this year is shocking right after winning seven times last year so we we can start with nelly obviously we can point some fingers at the other top players in the world for not getting it done more than once you know one thing thing I want to ask, Craig, Tron, we've talked about this on podcast, is just how much, how they go about setting the golf course up and how that perhaps just allows for truly kind of anybody to win week to week. It doesn't seem to really favor one type of player necessarily. Or identify the most talented player. Right. Like how it goes about identifying the best player that week it just seems very arbitrary maybe i i don't know i would love for craig or somebody that that can

kind of speak more knowledgeably on that um but yeah dj i think it's probably just like insane coincidence too it's like it's all of those things yeah tc in your neck of the woods last kind of check in here your guy tommy two gloves gainy wins at tim aquana country club uh furic and friends He was a Monday qualifier. Now has his, you know, kind of his status locked up on the, on the champions tour, PJ Tour champions. I should say, it says in my notes here, T.C. watched, quote, a concerning amount of this event. Just need to know what your takeaways were. Yeah, Sally and I were out there on Thursday.

Just kind of wandering around, trying to get, trying to get some quotes from some guys for the podcast. We're working on. Adam Shupak was talking to Stuart Sink about some Rider Cup stuff that we'll get to. Weather was pretty not good over there, pretty windy all week. Watched a lot of it. It's just,

it's really interesting to watch these guys like out on the range and just like what the differentiator is out on the senior tour. And like Matt Gogh looked like he was going to run away with this thing on Saturday. And then bottled it. it today and Duval was playing well Randy I mean he uh practically a home game like yeah I mean basically a home game yeah grew up there and it like I've played that course enough to

Aquana it's a it's a classic Donald Ross design with you know a lot of short grass around the greens and some some great par fives that that you know really make these guys push their chips in and so it was just really interesting it was just good I was it was it was John Ketrick and Peter Jacobson. I was just locked in. I was watching college football on one screen and the champions tore on the other screen and I couldn't turn it off.

It's fascinating. So, Ganey, I mean, glad his fortunes have turned around here in Florida. Last time he was on Operation Santa's Nottie list. Now he's on Operation Santa's Nice list. Monday and in. And what a place to do it, too. Furek was the one who was, he was getting chirpy.

about, you know, guys who haven't played the tour for 20 to 25 years who didn't win at least three times, you know, the champion's tour is really not for them. Well, Tommy Ganey, you know, kind of a late bloomer, kick the door down. He's in the boys club now. I love it. Good, good for him. Well, listen, we're going to get to a lot of, a lot of other stuff. T.C., I'm going to turn the ship over to you here in a minute. But first, I want to give a shout out to our friends at the stack system. Randy, this is a strange place to start, but you and I played a lot of golf

together this week. And I just straight up, my speed was down. And I, that's because I have, I have not been stacking this summer as much. I did a lot last winter. My speed went through the roof. And I think I bought into, you know what? I'm just, I'm going to cruise now. You know, I'm

a different person. I'm just going to, I'm just going to enjoy this. I didn't maintain. It's a classic, a classic mistake. I'm out there neck and neck with you with the driver you know that's just never something you were so pissed you never you were so pissed yeah so it's like uh it was a good wake up call that i needed that you know like like we said at the beginning the weather's going to turn here it's going to be time to get back in the garage and start getting that getting that speed back up and we'll not make the same

mistake next year so if if this sounds like you or or if you sound like you want to be in the second part of this conversation uh blowing the by pat the ball pass randy visit www www. stacksystem.com slash NLU. Use code no laying up. Get yourself a little bit off. And yeah, enjoy some hashtag gains out there.

T.C. We have a lot to get to here, my man. So you tell me it's your your ship. Where do you want to take this thing? A couple more loose ends of tie off. I want to shout out the U.S. women's midam going to MPCC. Monterey Peninsula Country Club.

It's like some scenes out there. Just delightful scenes. Absolute scene. Proper venue. Can I ask you a question? Sorry, super quick. Again, sorry if this is a bad setup and you guys have no idea. But for all the hornets nest that we stepped in around the men's midam about reinstated ams, is that a problem on the women's side, I wonder?

Well, there's, I know, I was looking at it earlier. Brooks say, little Brooke from Stanford, she's in the mix. I don't know if she ever turned pro or not. I wonder if she officially ever did turn pro. Yeah, I don't know. And then, because I was thinking that earlier, Dej, because Catherine Zhu as well, she was, I know she turned pro very briefly, but then was reinstated as well. I don't think, it doesn't seem like it's as big of a, of an issue on that side of things.

So, yeah, but hey, Marina Alex, if they're wrong. Test that out. Yeah, exactly. The Marina get her amateur status. That's right. I agree. Anyways. Sorry. Continue. Anyway. And then, yeah, Wagger changes a foot. They didn't even send out really an announcement.

It was just, it was very under the radar. So we'll see they're, they're evaluating the world amateur golf rankings. Manipulators are on notice. It's a big problem. It's a big, big problem. Party's over, guys. I'm going to be honest with you, TC. I was trying to read this release.

And I just realized how broken my brain was because I was. I was reading this after I read all the Don Ray stuff, and I was catching up on Yasser singing karaoke. And I'm just trying to read like a very serious release from the R&A about the World Average Golf Ranking. I'm like, I don't care about this. Like,

let me get back to that Mickelson tweet about Lou Holtz. Can we talk about that? You know, it's just, I'm glad there's, I'm glad there's serious people doing important stuff. But it's a, yeah,

it's just, it's weird how a few and far between some of those stories feel at times. Well, lastly, Before we get to this serious people doing serious stuff, we can, you know, live, there was a live, 2024 financial statements came out. They're losing a lot of money. I don't think we need to really belabor it. You can read the financials.

The only thing I would belabor is that, again, many people have pointed this out, but worth mentioning, this is only their events outside of the United States. So they're losing like almost $500 million in the past year just on the events outside the United States, which is what has. Half of them, maybe. So, I mean, listen, maybe they're making a billion dollars on the U.S.-based ones. I know that, yeah, that's certainly the claim that many people would try to pull over on you. But yeah, just an obscene amount of money going out the door on some of these last three seasons.

It's amazing. And I think the only other thing to, like, quickly add, like, they're. one of their primary revenue sources on that side of it is just the courses paying host fees to them to be able to in in like cities like like yeah either exactly yeah yeah yeah state yeah which is like oh god it's unbelievable it's like just light it on fires puts a lot of pressure on the beer and t-shirt sales i think uh which yeah the leaks. I saw something this week of Kimer saying that you know, they don't have the money to do signing bonuses or anything like that, but they've got some guys

that are interested. So true small market too. Yeah, I'll tell you what. TZ, you eat a hell of a pitching lab if that's how you're going to run things. One injury, man, and you're toast. Or a guy just stinks. Like Frederick Ketter

up. But where do you guys want to start with that? the rider cup lots of cover down on you guys were kind of off the grid the first yeah i want to ease into it tc i don't want to i don't want to go to the main course yet so i want to start with this tweet from phil mickleson and i want to say up front that i largely agree with what he's getting at here but i will stop at the end uh quote here's why looking outside of golf to a coach k or lou holts is worth exploring this is of course in reference to the rider cup golf is an individual sport that doesn't have teamwork support system partnership team analytics personality

and more. Europeans have a template that teaches and prepares their captains for these skills. The U.S. has a new template every two years with little continuity. I agree with all that except for I would say two words, which he's going to use again. If Coach K. or Lou Holtz or someone similar took over, would it be built upon or would it be scrapped again and started over afterwards? If that's the case, it would be a waste of time and an effort not worth doing to begin with.

Lou Holtz is 88 years old. I don't think he's coaching the U.S. Ryder Cup. He clarified that, though. He said someone like Lou Holtz. Okay. Well, that's good. That's good.

Because that was just jarring to read kind of over the morning coffee the other day. But I do think the sentiment of what he's getting at, I stand with. And I like the idea of having someone who's good at organizing, you know. Why is Lou Holtz on the tip of his tongue? Like, why? Can we at least say like Nick Sabin now? Lou Holtz, his last national title was 1988, like, come on.

I'm not even sure Lou Holtz was a good coach. Right, and there's that too. But yeah, let's, I, yeah. I mean, Randy, we were kind of saying this a while back. Like, as early as I think 21 or 22 of just, hey, like, why aren't we bringing in Toto Wolf to run a team or Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVeigh or... Nick Siriani.

Theo. The OSG guy. On the SSG guys should, you know, redirect him. Man, I even think about Theo. And we, you know, we talked about this a lot during Rider Cup week, but SSG investment capital. Maybe the Ryder Cup gets spun off and Theo's working on golf stuff. Maybe, I mean, maybe that's the ultimate play. I love that.

Rider Cup czar. Yeah. Can you imagine the Red Sox, the Cubs, the Cubs. and then the U.S. Rider Cup team winning in Europe. Like, that's the best resume that there is. That's true. God, I would not have seen that coming.

But TC, to your point, like, we have. And, you know, we always said it jokingly. But I truly do think, you saw it with USA basketball, right? Creating kind of a person that sits atop and can be a high-level decision-maker to really direct the program, if you will, in certain directions. I feel like the Ryder Cup is screaming for something like that.

Well, I think it is, but I don't think that the PGA of America has ears. Right. And can hear that. And then even if they did have ears and could hear that, I don't think that they're capable

of actually enacting change in anything like that. I mean, they're, it's just like they're disconnected from, I think if I'm a U.S. player. I'm like, like, I think we've beat up on these guys a lot for some of the money stuff or whatever. But I think if they're really pissed, make it more about governance and what your, like PJ of America, what's your standing these days? You have no, no standing in the pro game. And you certainly don't know how to do operations and logistics. And like, you're just wholly unsurious. And we have no connection to your organization at this point. I think, yeah. Yeah, I used to bag on the USGA for this a little bit, and I think the USJ has gotten a lot better in the last couple years about how as a, you know, handicapped carrying golfer in the United States, I'm like, man, I still, other than the U.S. Open and the U.S. Women's Open and a couple other amateur events, like I don't have a good sense of what the USGA is doing. And I know, you know, with the rollback stuff for better or worse, depending on how you feel about that, that's a very clear point of where, you know, their impact. on the game as being felt. But I think even they've gotten better at the storytelling around some of the

agronomy stuff and some of the ways that they're trying to, you know, make the game more sustainable. And all of that is a big setup to say, I don't get that sense from the, that same sense from the PJ of America. I know roughly, it's like, yeah, you kind of support the, you know, PGA members and the club professionals, but I, they're not even doing that. I don't get a great, I don't hear from a lot of them that are loving what you guys are doing there.

So it's like, I just. yeah I'm kind of left with a little bit of it just feels rudderless from a you know that seems like the people at the top are having a hell of a time you know it seems like a real great honor in the game but it just strikes me as this organization that feels like it's stuck in like 1995 and this day when like the golf pro was the pillar of the community and we're just going to kind of ride the fumes of that and we'll kind of elect some new you know officers every couple years and and go on these big trips and you know everybody will kind of pass. you on the back for growing the game. It seems like PJ Junior League is like an example of something. I was going to say that's the one thing's great. Yeah. I have had nephews involved in that and I realize that's probably like depending on where you are and the clubs and the pros that are putting effort into that.

But I know a lot of people that have had really good experiences with the PGA Junior League. I think the sections are, you know, on, I think the majority of the sections are probably doing a really good job too. Like, at the local level, the PGA seems to be functioning as intended, largely on the back of, you know, the club pros and the assistant club pros on the local level. It just seems wildly disconnected from the national level. And they have some outright goons and cartoon characters representing them on the national stage. And I don't know.

Like, I mean, yeah, like, where's, like, so ratings were down this year. We've got, I mean, there's like, there's, I got 25 different things on the list here. I've got this guy not really PGA related, but I did want to just make light of this. This is from the New York Times or the athletic. There was a man, Cretchenzo Stasi, a 38-year-old of Westbury, New York, stole a golf club or a golf cart at the Ryder Cup on Saturday. and it sounded like that was that was maybe the least of their concerns on Saturday. They may have diverted some security over to the McElroy group, but by that point. Well, going back to like the actual captain conversation a little bit.

I know some of, you know, the total wolves and things like that are a little bit tongue in cheek, but like who are like who's your pick, Randy? Who's your, who's your guy right now? just because I know he's a golf freak and he's already involved at the tour level would be honestly it'd be Theo probably if you're looking for somebody that has a true history of building organizational success right kind of turning organizations around implementing processes you know I can't give you a detailed accounting of like this is exactly what he did when you was in Chicago or Boston, but I trust him. Like I would, Theo, just go in, you're the Rider Cubsar, and give him kind of carte blanche and give him some resources. And I trust that he, at the other end of it, we're going to have a process and a team

and a way to select cat, like everything's going to just at least make a lot more sense than it would now. Randy, they, they had these specialty cocktails out there in the hospitality tents that they put squeaky rubber ducks in. This became quite a thing. I think that was Saturday, wasn't it? There was Saturday or Sunday, I can't remember. But yeah, there was, I think they had to stop play a couple times because people were squeaking the ducks so much. That was, I'm surprised I didn't make our Sunday show.

That was good stuff. Unsurious this thing has become. Yeah. that the PGA of America has like never mind like I thought Brendan DeYoung had a great thing this week on the five club show of just you're saying like just think about the the makeup of your team that you've got JJ Spawn and Harris English and Russell Henley like guys that play really well on really really difficult golf course Scottie Sheffler Scottie Sheffler and you set it up to be like a fucking pitch and put yeah the antithesis of what beth page black is all about. It's so funny. The setup stuff, yeah, makes you matter and matter. The more you think about it, which again is kind of like a, I don't know.

I would love to, I think it's very easy to blame Kagan for that stuff. And ultimately, as he said in the press conference, like he should take the blame for that in the current setup. But it's like, how is there not some sort of infrastructure around of serious adults who stops that from happening? And that's to your point, Randy, it's like, yeah, I don't think Theo Epstein. necessarily even has to be the captain but can he you know and someone like that be involved with picking the captain and setting up a system for the captain and making sure that it's not somebody who's also trying to qualify for the team and also trying to win majors and also trying to win 20 million dollars in prize money that is like realistically available to him so i don't know tc

where do you fall on the on the steward sink stuff because you mentioned it earlier adam shupac wrote a story for golf week where steward sync kind of laid out that he had an interview with John Wood. And I think maybe they're, we're trying to make John Wood this person, this kind of rider cup whisperer. And then you kind of never really heard anything else from him. So I don't know what happened behind the scenes there. But the point of that was Stuart Sink basically felt like he had an interview, like a phone interview to be potentially the writer cup captain, thought it went really well, got a lot of positive feedback on the way out of that call and then just never heard anything from anybody. And his wife eventually told him when they were in Scotland that, oh, I guess Keegan's the cap. captain. I don't know if you had any thoughts on that or he seemed like he was, you know, in a humble way lobbying to be the next captain. I know he's been involved as an assistant captain. So a long way of setting up any broader Stewart's think thoughts.

No, other than, I mean, Stewart was out there this week. Like he, like there were, there were a lot of guys in the locker room this week, mad as hell in the Timquant locker room. We're like, do you believe that shit? That was a joke, man. And, uh, you know, I think, I think some of those guys are probably mad as hell about a lot of things. Yeah, that's true, yeah. Are we still mad though? What are we still mad about? Meanwhile, you got Kevin Kisner

responding to one of Jamie Kennedy's tweets about just examples of Luke Donald getting in on the details, and Kisner said, weird, we did all the same things, but we don't go advertising it. Like, no, Kevin, it doesn't seem like you did any of those things.

Scotty didn't even, yeah, they didn't even have the guy's playing odds and evens, man. I don't know if they necessarily had the betting correctly. So I think to Stuart Sink, I think Stuart Sink would be a good captain. I think he's like a guy that's like reinvented himself, reinvented his career, really thoughtful guy. I like Stuart Sink. I think at the very least, why is he not in the team room? Or if he's someone that you're looking at to be a potential captain, why don't you have him as an assistant captain at least? And then it sounds like one of the

PGA, you know, board members or national members just went rogue on the John Wood stuff. And they're paying them a couple hundred grand a year. And nobody else really okayed it or said, hey, you know, John Wood is, is our guy that's going to, you know, kind of organize all of this and get everybody aligned. And so it just seems like a total lack of, lack of alignment on, on everything. I mean, even Kegan, right? Like, just, that was just like, oh, hey, let's throw, let's throw some shit at the wall and see what sticks. And now

I, like, I imagine they're probably going to do the same thing with Tiger. Yeah, it feels like the U.S. is, it feels like Europe is running things as if it's like a company or a team or a something rational.

And it seems like the U.S. is running things as if it was a movie made in 1985. And like, man, you know, you know, be fucking rad? What if this guy was the captain? And then he inspired him and then they just like, you know, just let him to victory. Like, that would be sick. That would be such a sick movie. And that's what, to your point, T.C.,

it's like the tiger thing, I could see one way or the other where it's like, if Tiger was fully, fully, fully, this is my only thing. I still think he would be good at this because he does have the, oh, I shouldn't say he'd be good at this. I don't know if he'd be good at this or not, but I think. I don't want to do anything of the captain stuff, though. I don't know if he wants to do it.

Yeah, that's where I'm like. I think he wants to do the tactical stuff, I would imagine. I think he would geek out on the analytics and who's playing with who and we need to have this guy and we're doing this for team building. And I mean, I think I'm projecting, but I think he would be into that stuff. And obviously, it has the gravitas. And I don't know if that means he sucks up all the oxygen in the room or if that means he makes everybody feel like they're 15 feet tall.

I have no idea how that would go. But again, it's like without all the support staff stuff and without taking all the things that Tiger doesn't want to do off of his plate, you know, like I don't think it's going to be the same result, I would imagine. Does it seem a little bit like the Europeans have almost taken this to such a serious, like, you know, they're just such seriousness and great preparation that to a point where like the Americans just don't care that much. Totally.

Like, hey, we're not going to like come over there like two weeks early. Well, that's what I almost I was talking to Randy about it this week a little bit And I think what's, I think what's The sense that I get is I do think the Americans care Like I think they think that they care in the same way You know, and I think they get to a point where it's like All right, two weeks before the event, man, I'm ready

This is 100% my focus. This is all I'm gonna, all I'm thinking about. And I am trying hard in the practice around And I am learning the course and I am doing all like I think they I don't even know if they're doing that stuff compared You didn't even play that many practice. That's a whole other thing that came out this week. They maybe only played, what, nine and nine and then a couple holes.

That's tough. But anyways, yeah, it's just, it's just not the same, not the same level to level, new devil, potentially. So, yeah, I don't know. I think that, let's just fucking get to it. I think that leads to the, leads us to the LinkedIn, T.C. A lot of talk, a lot of talk about the crowds in Beth page. A lot of talk about some things being yelled at. players in the general mood and the lack of the PGA of America's response to it,

potentially even the PGA of America egging some of it on. Many people were saying with all of the, oh my God, you know, four years of this is going to be so crazy. This is going to be so crazy. That led our guy, Don Ray, president of the PGA of America, to take to LinkedIn and say, quote, couple thoughts. This is my...

Just let that sit for a second. A couple thoughts, period. This is my profile, not the PGAs. That being said, thank you to all who have reached out to me as a friend in golf industry leader. I'm personally taking some criticism right now, and that comes with the role. Just like when I was an umpire, I expected. Don Ray, for those that don't know, was a minor league umpire for a long time before this. Maybe they got rid of this role because there's so many, there's so many fewer.

They're moving to APA. Yeah, that's true. Exactly. They're moving to AP. And the robo lumps are coming now. That's right. However, to the students and PGA members that follow me, know this. I am not bothered.

I know who I ultimately serve. When I wrote this sermon three years ago, I meant it, and today I am living it. The truth is still the truth. New level, new devil, bicep emoji, praying emoji, USA flag emoji. And it seems like a link to a sermon that he gave a couple years ago. T.C., I'm embarrassed to say there's been, I'm embarrassed to say there's been stretches of the last few days where I haven't been thinking about new level new devil uh and then it just when I do think about it again it just wallops me it just knocks me off my tracks uh I just

think that's going to be with us forever I don't know that that's ever ever going away Randy this did this hit you as hard as it hit me oh I mean TC just delighting in it this week new level new devil of course it's it's it's iconic it's truly the the new more money more I mean, that's what it is. He was deleting replies and comments on LinkedIn as well. People coming after him on his LinkedIn. Hate that. So just to take you guys through the week, we had the Tom Watson apology tweet.

I was on September 29th. That's a great man. Yeah. I'd like to congratulate Ryder Cup Europe on their victory. Your team play the first few days was sensational. More importantly, I'd like to apologize for the root and means. spirit of behavior from our American crowd at Bethpage as a former player captain

as an American I am ashamed of what happened so we had that we had Heather McMahon getting tossed under the bus he went on her podcast and said this was for those who don't know this was the first TMC who quote stepped down from her role

in disgrace after leading I think in a moment of of quick spontaneity a fuck you Rory chant that was not well received from our friends across the pond for for good reason uh yeah sorry so she she also hosts a podcast and i think yeah she just said hey they didn't you know they didn't tell me what they wanted me to do these crowds were were rudderless uh my mom texted me today she said that this is your mom or this is heather still talking about my mom my mom texted me

today she said hey she's a great a great woman Heather McMahon is a member at an athletic club and they're voting this week on whether to kick her and her husband out of the club. No, that's too far. I can't get down with that. What are we doing? We can't cancel.

She's a comedian. Yeah. What else? We had Brentley Romine suggested that Keegan should captain the team in Ireland. I think in a moment of weakness, that thought crossed my mind as well. And I was like,

man, I think he is going to, I think he's going to learn some hard truths from this. I think he's going to have some experience. I think there's something to be said about continuity. I think there's something to be said about not just like throwing somebody

like feeding someone into the lion's den going over and, you know, captain and away one first time. But then I'm like, well, also he's just going to do nothing and be like play, not nothing, but I mean, he's going to just play competitive golf for the next two years, which he should because he's one of the, you know,

15 best players in the world. So as long as that's the case, which was kind of what your guy, KitchenSink was saying, it was like, man, I'm 52. Like, I am not, doing anything else I think he had a quote I'll show up wherever you want

If you want me to go to every PJ tour event I'll do it And I'm like that's what we're That's what I'm talking about man That's what we're looking for So yeah I I don't know I saw Bradley's tweet as well And I in a moment of weakness

I felt the same But then I think my cooler heads might have prevailed So then I don't know everybody's Everybody's livid McEwen and Bunkered They had their column

Some stuff on their website calling for Don to resign. And then Aiman had just a scorching, scorching, scorching, Paul. I mean, it was incredible. The rest of Aman's piece, if you didn't read it, which you should go read it

on golf week.com was just unsurious organization and this thing needs new. I believe the kicker was like this, you know, at this this horrid restaurant, the best thing you can do is hang a under new management sign in the window. And I think he was saying a lot of the same stuff SSG, police step in, PJ of America, use this windfall to, you know, improve the lives and, you know,

working standards of your, of your members, uh, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, go read that piece. That's a, that's a flame thrower from Amen. Jeff Shackleford wrote, the game has dealt with carnival barkers and military grade all-world schmendricks before, but Don Reed, maybe unlike anything golf has ever seen. I've never heard the word schmendrick before by the way I guess he wanted the he wanted the lead job when Sprague got it I mean let's not forget that Sprague the CEO who's nowhere to be found during all of this until what Monday or Tuesday night he hops on golf

Golf Central or you know hops on with Rex Hoggard on Golf Channel and very reactive just hey you know what we we reacted not like what was your plan man you didn't have a plan you didn't have like this just in everything we've heard from vendors fans players everything we've heard it was like these guys are they they're not prepared for this and they're they're just lashing out at at anybody who tries to tell them that and it's just not a it's just not a serious organization and uh they they ended up i think the guy from Ridgewood, his name's escaping me.

Derek Reasoner was supposed to get the job. And they took so long announcing, or David, yeah, they spent so long on the search that he pulled his name out. And then they were going to announce the guy from Kiowa as the next CEO. And there was going to be a full-scale revolt.

And they heard so much criticism from their ranks that they ended up just. just pivoting to Derek Sprague. It was like the GM at TBC Sawgrass. And now he's running a, you know, one of the biggest organizations in all of golf. So then we got the Don Ray video that, so we had the LinkedIn thing.

And then he blocked me on Twitter for X. And then we got the Don Ray video that dropped of him, you know, just basically saying, like, I didn't hear any of this stuff. Like, it wasn't bad out there. You would hear this at a, at a kid's soccer game. And he dropped a, you know, when we're in Rome,

they do this same thing over there, which just is like categorically not the case. This is from Tom Kirshaw of the Times of London. Somehow there's only been retweeted 42 times. I think it's the story of the year. Exclusive, all caps, colon. Underfire PJ of America president saying karaoke, parentheses, lose yourself by M&M.

in the dining area of hotel for players, families, and guests on Saturday night. Hours after Rory McElroyd, his wife, Erica, were subjected to vile abuse at the Ryder Cup. Now, guys, two things, I think, that's stand out from this. One, the framing that, you know, I don't know, like it's, he should have been out with the task force beating up these fans that were yelling, but instead he was singing karaoke or something. Like that whole framing is both, I think a little unfair to our guy, Don, but also very, very, very, very funny. And two, I think just pales in comparison to the humor of singing, lose yourself by Evadem in the Players Hotel. I just, I don't know if we've seen anything like this. I saw someone in the Instagram comments called a D. Rabbit, which I thought was kind of an all-timer.

I just Anti-Foutout performing Stan wearing the Michael Block Raw hat Oh God I mean

do we think Do we think Don Ray's like Flow is that good Is he hitting all the How good of a performance Do you think this was? Can you imagine

Just a hotel Full of just tired people buzzing at the end of a Rider Cup day? Getting their asses, getting it. Yeah, guys out there singing, lose yourself. That's, uh,

I think people talk about, you know, seeing the Beatles at Shea Stadium or in Hamburg or how cool would that be to go back to this moment in time. I just, I think I would, this is up there on the list of like, if you could just put me in this room for five minutes. Parachute in.

I just want to be there for five minutes. I just experienced what that was like. I don't know if I can handle much more than five minutes, but man, that's, that's just, that's just a good, good, good stuff.

there. What I have other, like, were other people singing karaoke? I'm clear, you know, or was this Don truly calling for the mic? It's crazy. I mean, it makes Ted Bishop look like a serious dude. Yeah, and that's the thing. Like, going back to maybe our earlier discussion, if the U.S. is out there winning rider cups, like all of this stuff just kind of gets papered over.

Yeah, some of the family. behavior stuff is is too far but man when when you're just getting your ass kicked like as an American I think what fans want to know is are we taking this serious every two years like what what are what are we doing I think that's a very fair question to ask I would also say that between LPGA, R&A, USGA, PGA, PGA, TGA, virtually every organization in golf has relatively new leadership. And most would argue very much improved leadership

or TBD, but looking optimistically at the TBDs. And the PGA of America is just sticking out more and more and more like a sore thumb, as everybody else gets more and more serious and has their shit together. And I think, like, one of the other things that just blows me away is, like, there's so many really talented, like, dynamic, exceptional club pros out there who are now GMs, directors of golf, hotel directors, all that stuff.

Those guys, like, where are those guys on the national board? Where are the Bob Ford's and company? Instead, like, we have, like, we have, Don Ray, like, manages a driving range and a, an executive course in in the suburbs of feet like in tempi arizona or so like it's crazy and it's like not to be like like I think there's there's there's certainly a place for that but it just doesn't seem like we're getting the best and the brightest on this level and I don't know if the the the time commitment is too much if you are you know at at one of the higher profile clubs in America I don't know if if that's the case but well that's

worth mentioning it is a volunteer position right is it's like an unpaid basically like figure head sort of sort of position which is like the best expense account in the world too kind of stepping on a rake here of just you know being the main character of of golf twitter is just not not something you want to do especially uh especially when you're not getting paid there's there's so many people like he wants to be out there being the mascot and then sprag gets up and has this really timid statement on on golf channel and then don re just sends out this email to the 30 which i don't even know how many pga pros there are is it 31 000 fluctuating every time we're doing it 23 000 we need he sends out this email and it's it's addressed only to them it's pretty mealy mouth that doesn't

really take accountability for stuff like it just like it doesn't go to any other stakeholders any of the fans who bought tickets who got bilked just all of it the whole thing the whole thing is incredible to me meanwhile they're selling they're selling stuff on the realist again too Deitch you know what I was looking at some of these some of these auctions are coming up here pretty soon just yeah a lot of

a lot of game used memorabilia the realist you might remember from the PJ championship selling like god what were some of the stuff on there it was like oh it's like a the rake who was in contention at the Johnny Vegas, I think.

Johnny Vegas, the rate that he, yeah. Yeah, a lot of that. And so there was, there is stuff in this auction that I'm like, oh, that's kind of, it's like the actual hole, like the cup from like the seventh hole or something. But it was, the auction was ending in like four hours and it was like 68 bucks. I was like, I might actually buy that. That's kind of fun. But yeah, and then it was like next, yeah, it was next to all this like Katie Lang merch. I saw a, it was like a, they're selling used range balls for, for.

20 bucks i saw a uh rider cup package signed by miranda lambert which again i just had a kind of question nobody's really asking let freedom ring right i suppose yeah guys i just i don't know i don't know where we go i think meanwhile your point tc about like it's just it's just everything screams amateur man just just kind of bush league especially as we see to your point the rna the usGA like it just the PGA of America clearly sits a knot several notches down meanwhile their club pros like the subtext of all of this is their club pros are getting like their their quality of life sucks they're there's they're dropping out of the industry like crazy they have no support just generally speaking from from the national level and I think the PGA championship is turning into like by far the worst major you know the gaps never been. been larger. They keep taking it to mediocre venues. I mean, heck, the guy that, the guy, the PGA

championship is going to Aronamake next year. The director of golf at Aronamake, who's like a legendary guy, Jeff Kitty, in the industry, he was national club pro of the year. Like, he's served with distinction. He's the one that Keegan be rated during the, the rules fiasco on Sunday. So when Justin Rose was getting a ruling, I believe, right?

And it ended up taking too long. And Keegan kind of kept going back, you know, again and again and again to say this is unfair. We need to get moving. Yeah, some pretty good. I forget who reported that. Was that Shoe Pack as well? Maybe. I'm seeing it from Andrew Gamble.

But yeah, it could have been Shupak. I mean, and then the funniest part about that is it was a local rule that Kagan should have been aware of to begin with was what was causing this ruling to be drawn out, which I think moving towards kind of the end of our list here, it's like that was one of the things that really stuck out to me about, I know people are probably getting tired of all the Euro fluffing here, but

the other thing that came out this week was that the Euros were basically prepared to just strike essentially, just like we're not going to play another shot until we can guarantee that like the verbal abuse is going to stop. And there was a lot of reporting out there this week about how Luke Donald,

the whole team, essentially like they had already talked about it. They had already established almost like a red line of if it hits this point, like we're going to stop. Is everybody cool with that? Let's talk about it now. What is our game plan? If that happens. And I don't know. Again, it's just another indicator

of, yeah, those guys kind of thought through all the elements of what was going to happen that week. And it just makes it a little easier to go show up and do your job when you feel like you're prepared in that way. It seems like. But also, Keegan won the BMW championship at Aronamink.

he's berating the club pro from that place. It's just a weird one. I think that the club pro's hot, man. The club pro space is going to be, I think, something to watch the next couple of years to see if there's any more fallout of this, if there's any other more like macro trends on how that part of the industry is moving

because I think you're spot on, Tron. That's like a really, really, really is in a lot of ways in the right spots still remains a massive. pillar of the game, but is at risk of being just put through the meat grinder and churning out people out of the industry rather than creating like a, you know, kind of sustainable life and a, you know, all of these kind of front door to golf type of people that that really should continue to prop it up the same way that they did 30 years ago, you know? And I think, I thought Cody had a great point. I think it was just on Slack. I don't think he said it on the

podcast, but some of the reinstated amateur stuff, he's like, man, a lot, like back in the day, a lot of those people just, you know, you wouldn't have to get your amateur status back. Like, you just become a club pro and you get into the game that way. And you become a teacher or, you know, you play in section events and you kind of can still scratch that itch and stay in the industry. And it's just not an attractive life for a lot of people to get into. So it's, I don't know, I'm sure I'm talking out of school. And I'm sure we'll get a lot of feedback to that.

that effect. But T.C., how's your coup organizing going? Then she put out a call for... It's good. It's good. I got a bunch of people reaching out. I've had probably 50 emails. So a bunch of DMs. Yeah, and people just, they see the Derek Rees and the,

or they, the, uh, Ron Rees and the Susie Waley's just, you know, basically getting high on the hog and I think advancing their own personal interests over those of of the PGA of America. It's crazy to me. So I think plenty more to come on this.

I think there's, I think people, I think people are pissed and rightfully so. And it should lead to some sort of action. Yeah. Well, closing the book on, on Ryder Cup stuff, should we move to San Valley, TC?

Please. I want to hear about, I mean, you guys have been playing, Randy, you're playing more golf in September and October than the rest of the year combined. I know.

it's it's truly it's been too much tc honestly but i did i so somewhat the genesis for this at the beginning of september right after the labor day uh was part of a just a a group trip to sand valley not a work trip and was my first time ever being there so dj i know i know you've been up there so yeah you you or tc where do you guys want to start uh i mean i guess super basic you know, very, very top level. If you're not familiar with what we're talking about, it's kind of the abandoned dunes of Wisconsin, Dream Golf Resort up there in kind of the north central section of the state of Wisconsin.

Four golf courses open now plus the short course, the sandbox, the Part 3 course. It's Sand Valley, Mammoth Dunes, Delito, and Sedge Valley with the 12-haul golf course, the Commons set to come online next year. I already open for a little bit of preview play. I got to go out to the kind of half construction site, half grassed golf holes a couple weeks ago and played about eight of the 12. So we can talk about that on the back end maybe.

But Randy, I guess maybe start with what did you, what was your itinerary? Did you play them all? Did you touch them all while you're there? We did. Yeah. We played everything once. So I flew into Madison, which T.C., Madison, great little airport. It was wonderful.

And then we rented a car and drove, honestly, pretty easy drive, maybe a little over an hour, hour and a half, somewhere in that 60 to 90 minute range. But, you know, scenic, not a stressful drive. And so on our arrival day, we actually got in like day zero. We didn't play any golf. We just got there that evening. Had enough time. We went up to Craig's porch, which is the one of the little food stands there overlooking. It's really where the San Valley, the golf course, goes out of and then near the 18th green there.

And they serve $1 tacos. The beers are three bucks. Like literally, that's one thing you just need to understand about San Valley. The food and Bev prices, once you're on site, and truly, they could gouge you, right? You're in the middle of nowhere. The food and Bev prices could be, I don't know, rex of what they are, I think. and people be like yeah that's that seems like what it is now so you just feel great that you're not getting taken advantage of from you know from the moment you're on property we had a beer we had a

taco we enjoyed a sunset and then the next day we played we started with um the lido so we dove in we went over and right in the deep end yeah yeah and so our day one was delito and then the sandbox. Our day two was mammoth in the morning, San Valley in the afternoon. And then our day three, which was also our departure day, we played Sege Valley. And then everybody took off for the airport and got home that evening. So I mean, what is that? Three nights, four days, three nights. You play every course. Like, you could certainly add another day and double up. But I thought it was a perfect itinerary. So I would encourage folks, you know, give yourself enough time to do and see everything there at least once. Where'd you stay? The first night we stayed in like the lodge

right there where you check in. And then starting the second night, so the second and third night, we had, there were eight of us and we had a cabin. And so the cabins, there's kind of like a main central room and then off of that are these little like essentially they're almost like hotel rooms but they're standalone hotel rooms that have double bed so we had you know two on one side two on the other side each one sleeps two guys and then you have a main like tv room and you know there's a kitchen in there a real hangout area was it one of the ones with the fireplace in the middle and then out back like i've those cabins i'm like i mean i i want to i want to knock my house down and just build this exact thing.

Yeah, I know. They're so well done. Great architecture. Everything's just the aesthetic, right, around the whole property kind of speaks to each other. It's really good. What do you think of Lido? So I told, I shout out Brendan Quinn. I read his piece in The Athletic about just the history of the Lido.

I love, unequivocally, I love that the Lido exists. I love the history of it. I love that there's, as Brendan said, there's like this ghost ship in north central Wisconsin of this amazing golf course that used to sit on Long Island. I just, I really, really, really dig that. It's hard. It's not an easy course, right?

It's a course where you go a little off property from the lodge at Sand Valley. It's a short shuttle ride. It's not very far at all. But you kind of go away from the main lodge. It's dry over there. So there is no alcohol allowed on the premises. There's no alcohol served on the golf course. I think that's a unique wrinkle.

Especially if Randy who likes to get shit-faced while he plays. I don't mind that at all. It's walking and you take a caddy and you're glad to have a caddy because you need some lines off of. most of those t's a lot of template holes right it's it's it's a c b mcdonald it's you know it's every type of template that that he and set rayner have kind of now are famous for yeah just tough greens uh it's this big rectangular piece of property where you kind of play around the outside on the front nine and then the in the back nine you're kind of like wrapping inside

the property but you can kind of see most of the course you can see most of the people on the course no matter where you are it's Dej I know you've played it like it's funny because I think I left San Valley thinking like man if we had one more round I think the Lido would be like fourth on my list out of the four courses but at the same time I again want to unequivocally state it's good, and I'm so glad it exists. Yeah, I played it for the first time with Toronto, actually. Was that last year or two years ago? I can't remember.

I don't know. Who could say? But yeah, we kind of just drove up and back for the day and played it. And that was last year, because it was after the NOU Club Championship. It was actually right after we did our trade. That's right. The fantasy baseball trade that's still, you know, the rippusiness. are still being felt like a 14 player deal yeah uh i randy i think i felt similarly after the first

go around and have been lucky to play it i think two or three times since and each time i've played it since um like i i go back up the first time i played it i think i was like ah this is feels super arbitrary and there's just kind of stuff everywhere and i i don't know if i even if i knew that that stuff was there i don't know if i'm good enough to avoid it it still feels very kind of hit and hope and just kind of, you know, come what may, I guess, and hopefully you don't get some bad breaks and, you know, you can hit the big greens and maybe you make some putts. The second time around, I was like, oh, no, wait, actually, hold on.

This is, this is way more fun than I think I was realizing the third time around I was like this might be among the best, like most favorite courses I've ever played. And so it is a grower, I think, in a huge, huge way, which I think is a massive compliment. I always find it to be a little tricky. We've said this about Bannon Dunes before too, but it's weird to have a golf course like that at a resort like that, which is kind of a, you know,

there's local people that I know here who drive up and drive back and they can maybe do a trip a year or once every two years or whatever. But for a lot of people, I mean, it's an expensive trip. It's hard to get to. It's, you very well might only go there once in your life,

if at all. And so it's a little strange to have a, you know, a bucket list golf course be like, oh yeah, you just got to play it 10 times, and then you'll get it. But at the same time,

it's like, well, man, that really makes me want to go back and play it again. Kind of what makes it a bucketless course too. Totally. Yeah.

And I think the other cool thing about San Valley is it kind of speaks to, I think what they have going on at San Valley just writ large, which is, man, they've got enough critical mass there now that if the Lido is not your thing, great we've got three and a half soon to be four other golf courses that are totally different and probably a little bit more what you're looking for you know and so i don't know if that takes

you to like or tc anything else kind of from playing it that sticks out to you no i think we had a pretty benign evening out there like it it had rained earlier in the day and so it was a little softer but yeah definitely felt like holy shit there's there's just stuff everywhere but and Randy I totally get what you're saying about it not being all that lovable I think like the scale is so big and you just feel like you're in this massive massive clearing and it's tough to get your bearings and all of that but also like it felt like more of an exercise of the mind or of discipline and it's at times it felt a little bit like a rich guy art project of like yeah this thing exists you know it's really

cool that it exists. I'm happy that it exists. I don't like maybe like I really didn't want to dig too too deep into the why other than like we can. But it's it's also like one of the most impressive engineering and architectural feats out there too to Peter Florey and everybody who put in all the work to kind of uncover the plans and then make them really reality. But yeah like I get your point though of like i've been to sand valley one other time and i had a blast playing those other golf courses that's i was going to say i didn't feel like i had a blast like it doesn't feel like a buddy's trip golf course it feels like hey i want to go grind out here for three days kind of thing and that's the thing like playing the lito with the win and the in the variability you don't know if your ball's

going to end up in that bunker you didn't see or if you're going to catch a good lie and kind of the longer grass if you miss a fair way like you just feel on edge for most of the around the Lido. And Dege, to your point, I can certainly see where if you were playing that course weekly, you know, once a week, let's say, or, you know, as you get more reps, you certainly would get a bit more comfortable. That totally makes sense. Well, I would never get bored out there ever between wind and pins and T haul. It's there's like infinite options. And I think that's, I think that speaks to the kind of the membership model of it too. Not that this is going to make anybody who didn't love it feel any more warm and fuzzy,

but it is a little bit more of a member's club, whereas San Valley, like the rest of the golf courses at San Valley are part of the resort. It is totally open to the public. Come book your tea time. The Lido has a little more restriction on it. There's members of the Lido. There's people who bought houses,

you know, near the golf course who spend their whole summers up there. Public play is not every day. So it's a little harder to get on. So it's just a little different setup. And I think, you know, I understand why they did it that way. yeah i think on the complete flip side uh mammoth dunes i don't know if you want to talk about

that next but that is you know a much uh it sounds pejorative to say like a much easier golf course but it's just indiated it he said it was too easy it's a very it's designed to be as much fun as i think you can you can have yeah that's exactly right and it is it's the type of course where if you're hitting the ball well and you're in control of your distances and where the ball's going, you are going to have a lot of birdie putts. And that's by design, right? All the slopes around the greens, they all kind of bring the ball back towards the green surface, towards flags, instead of repelling away. And it's a David McLeigh kid. It's got, it feels big, right? it's got some scale to it uh it's it's still walkable we we walked it um i in in my personal

i i feel like i maybe said this in my personal golf but the like the best way i could kind of place mammoth would be you know if if you've ever played sports like whatever varsity sports right and you're going up against the jv or the scout team sometimes and their job is to give you the look of what your opponent's going to give you. But they're playing a little bit of dummy defense, right? They're not as active reaching for the ball. I'm using basketball terms here. They're not out by passing lanes necessarily.

They're not playing the play, if you will. Like that's how I felt going around Mammoth Dunes was like, oh, yeah, you're kind of giving me the stock look here. And I know if I kind of hit this well, I'm going to get some help from that slope. It just is very comfortable. And I think, Dege, to your point, I think it complements the Lido spectacularly in that, you know, you could go out to the Lido and get your ass kicked. Well, you can get out to Mammoth and feel really, really good about your game, which is a great kind of ends on, ends of the spectrum for one single golf resort. I've also said, Randy's going to get mad that, you know, little, little freshman kids, D&M up too hard or taking a charge.

That's right. Like, we're not, we're not doing it. not here today. The game's Friday night. It's not Thursday afternoon. Get out of my space. I've also seen a lot of people kind of glitch out when you get, it gets that reputation now where enough people are just like, oh, dude, you're going to shoot the lowest route of your life when you go out there. People just like there and gamble sand, but I've seen people like some people very well do. And some people just grip the bat too tight and get out there and just like, you know, just shoot a

million. Then it just makes it even worse because you know you're supposed to score well. It's just a very funny. I don't know. I love, I love Mammoth Dudes. It's a very fun. I feel like it's playing shoots and ladders. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where you kind of like unlock this and yeah, exactly.

I've only played it once. We did a video on it and me and Ben and Cody and Sally. And I think between the four of us, we made like 26 birdies and three eagles but like we had this epic match and like we couldn't wipe the smile off our face at the end. And we still had to hit the shots. And it was definitely more like, hey, let's play a match between the two of us.

And, and, you know, it was like you truly had, it was like playing offense. It was like playing, it was like playing air raid big 12, you know, mid 2000s football. You know, like Mike Leach is, is hanging. 65 on them every every Saturday like us us mid cap high cap golfers like we we don't get that feeling of like going after it very often and and mammoth can give you that and that's yeah it's fun it's intoxicating honestly well uh we're going kind of a weird order here but let's go to sand valley next the first the first golf course built at the resort corn krenshaw golf course kind of a hybrid of the two things that i think we're we're talking about

maybe, but what was your impression of San Valley? I think San Valley is just so handsome. I think it's a great representation of Coor and Crenshaw and what they do. This was the golf course. I said Lido, you know, if I had one more round on my trip, the Lido probably would have been fourth in my wish list. Sam Valley would have been first. Like it is to me the perfect mix of,

it's going to require some really good shots. You're going to have to think about, you know, do I want to go after that flag? Where can I miss this? Without being like overly penalizing or overly severe. I just, you know, it's a lovely walk. The cut of the greens, the bunkering, like it's just really good. I came away very, very enamored, I guess, with Sand Valley, the golf course.

What's that short par four? I think it's on the front, kind of up into that little corner. Nine, right? Oh, that's such a nine. Yeah, it's funny because, like, one's kind of a short four also. Yeah. It's like you've been two's got a crazy green. Mm-hmm.

But nine, I just think about that hole pretty often of like, that's a really. Such a good green. Striking, stunning hole. Then you have the short part three right after it. It's just a, yeah, it's just, I'm with you, Randy. It's just kind of the way it's supposed to look. You know, it's very challenging, you know, if you are not playing well, there's plenty of spots to trip yourself up.

But if you can, if you've got any control of your golf ball, it's going to be just the most peaceful kind of delightful day you can have. So it's, I love it. Yeah, it's, and the wind can blow out there. You know, I certainly, I think I shot 84 maybe, which I was pleased with. I thought I battled. I don't know. I come back to like it just seems like fully realized as a golf course.

And I really, I dug it. There's some teeth there too. Like there's some greens that are a little bit pushed up where you, it really makes distance control a thing. Like you got to fly it up there. You got to hit the proper shot. Randy,

question for you, are you moon man or spotted cow? Spot a cow. I'm a spotted cow guy. Yeah. Had had plenty of those T.C. I love. And again,

it feels like they're giving them away like it's incredible where are you buying a three dollar beer these days anywhere you know it's it's unbelievable just like make it expensive for me to get in the door that's totally fine and then once i'm there put me at ease yes yeah there's nothing worse than feeling like you're you're just getting kind of jobbed the whole time that was a little bit i haven't been a stream song in a very very long time but that was always i remember my my impression there was just like you can't go anywhere else for food you're stuck here would you like a $60 steak I'm like I just kind of want like a turkey sandwich you're like I want a buffalo chicken wrap I want you to stop sticking your hand in my pocket I'm sure that's changed a little bit now actually I would be

really curious to know like I need to go back to stream song because Kemper's taking it over from a management perspective and I'm curious to see if that's if that ethos has changed yeah I think sorry I'm just thinking like Bandon Trails, I would guess, I haven't played all the court Crenshaw's, but I'm guessing a lot of people know Bandon Trails. I think San Valley is pretty close to that for me. I don't think it quite has that like tunnel of trees. It doesn't quite hit on every hole, just like the surrounding beauty of trails. But again, I think San Valley is.

is pretty magnificent. One of the things that I felt when I left Sand Valley was, man, I didn't really miss the ocean because it helped me focus more on the golf. That makes sense. It does make sense. I know what you mean. Yeah, it's just a different,

it's a different experience. I mean, it's the golf plays, you know, not exactly the same as being out, you know, in banden, but it's like it plays firm and fast

and you can use the ground and you do get, you can lock in and hit all those similar shots. But yeah, it's, it's less kind of pulling your phone out and let's take a photo of this and let's got to see this over here, which, you know, I mean, it's hard to beat being on the ocean, certainly, but the commute, they're both free from, yeah, from, it's nice if you're anywhere close, you know, in the Midwest or can get to Madison easily or whatever. It's like, it's a lot of the experience. You're not missing out on, on the whole thing just because the ocean's not there.

Yeah, it's like it's not sensory overload. And I think like I've only been twice, but I think the agronomy has been better both times I've been to Sand Valley versus Banner. It's really good. I'm sure makes a lot of sense not being next to the ocean. And Oregon's got some pretty crazy weather up there. Yeah.

Well, the last course, the most recent one that opened, Sedge Valley, Tom Doak, par 68, I think. I am fascinated to hear what you thought of, Sedge. It's a little, it's weird. It's a little shorter from like a scorecard perspective just because it's a par 68. So I feel like it lulls you into a little false sense of security that it's going to be some little miniature thing. That's not the case. But at the same time, there's a lot of half pars. It's designed to be, I think Doke keeps pointing back to like some of the Heathland golf courses. It's supposed to be much, much more like what you'd see, you know, in the kind of just outside London. and suburbs. I love this golf course. I loved it.

The first time I played it, I was a million thumbs up since. And a couple times I've been lucky enough to see it. So yeah, Randy, what were your thoughts on Sedge? I'm like you, man. I freaking loved it. This was the course that you want to talk about

like what would be your everyday course, like it's Sedge Valley. The walk is just great. Like you said, half par holes out the wazoo so you know it could be a par five well there's one par five on the scorecard it kind of feels like a four and a half there are some fours that feel like three and a halfs and quite honestly there are a couple fours that feel like four and a halfs and i i think it just has charm it doesn't feel and this is i think one of saying valley's best

attributes is these four golf courses are really pretty distinct from one another. And I think to my experience, they're like the most distinct collection of courses at the same resort. And I think that's really cool. And I think Sedge Valley is really distinct in that Doak is like you said, going after that like England, Heathland feel. It just, yeah, you're hitting every club in the bag i mean i'm looking at the scorecard from the back back t's it's a little over 5800 yards par 68 right it's par 33 on the front 35 coming in but it's not like an executive course where you're just hitting driver wedge over and over again you really have to think the greens are thoughtful you know it's it's not just hit it to the center and and you're going to have a pretty straightforward

birdie look you got to really place the golf ball it's great yeah i the highest compliment honestly would be man this would be the course if it were down the street for me i would play a ton of golf i would just go out and walk and and enjoy the game really it's uh the the thing that i'm always struck by outside of a couple of was that number three i think is the the long par four with kind of the punch bullish type of green back tees yeah exactly that is like you get out and you play one and two and they're kind of out and back and they're a little driver wedge and you're like okay this is you know what are we in for here and then you play three and it's like is this the one that you sent a picture of with no that one is stick that's the par three on the back uh but you play

the third hole and all of a sudden you're standing in the fairway and it's like oh i got a i got a six iron into this green whoa okay the time i got i got to buckle up uh outside of a couple of those long par fours i mean i'm convinced that it's the type of place you would play better if you just could have enough discipline to hit a six iron off of every tea all of those should but of course you don't because it's no fun and you want to like it just gives you all the rope to hang yourself and some of those and it's almost like the worst thing you can do i remember the first time i played it i'm gonna get some of the whole numbers wrong but you get out to that point where you have the downhill par three which i think is number five and then i think you have the short par four which is number six i think or or that's six seven or whatever those numbers let me look but the first like very short part four it only played two 60 or something that's number six yeah i which is sandwiched between the two part three yes yeah i i remember that one shot i hit like uh just kind of like a choked up driver that just flew to the right spot ran up on the green i had like a 15 footer

for eagle and two put it for birdie and i i remember that almost like ruining my day because then it was like okay every time i got to another one of those half par holes i was like yeah i'm just going to ship it here too and I just made double after double after double and it's just it's really fun because you just look back on it you're like god I just didn't need to do that man it's it's uh tron I'd be fascinated with like how well you drive the ball I think you would I think you'd put up a very good number there but it sounds like a video yeah we need to we need to get out it's it's a course that you know I don't do this often but it is a course like that's screaming for that Sunday dog set yeah right where you where you take half your irons out you know

you take one of your wedges out like just just take seven clubs out there a little carry bag like that's that's the type of golf it it is set up to to provide really yeah it'd be fascinating like play play two balls play one smart yeah fun totally see how the two scores stack up yeah yeah it's It's great, man. They've got an awesome thing going there. I just, uh, the pro, Ryan is a, is a buddy of mine and a great guy and listening to the podcast. Shout to Ryan if he's listening. But he, Ryan, you met Ryan. Very nice. Great guy. Yes. But yeah, talking to him a little bit, it's like a lot of these trips, you know, you have your set itineraries and there's a lot of people who are like, oh, we're playing here in the afternoon. We're playing there blah, blah, blah. And a lot of people that end up with one extra round, you know, like, oh, we'll play mammoth twice or we'll play whatever twice. he's like there there have been so many people in these first couple years that have played sedge once and like come back into the shop and be like hey can we change the itinerary around a little bit so we can go play that again and it's just i don't know if the expectation like par 68 maybe it just sneaks up on people uh well i think if you just look at the scorecard you're like yeah it should because after 5800 there are a few holes where the back t and the and the one up t are like there's a very big gap between them so it goes from like 5800 which is the back t and then the middle t is like 4,700. And you can play a combo of those two at like 52. But I truly think it's a lot of people probably just look at the scorecard and think like, ah, is this like a pitching put? Is this like eh? But it's, yeah, it's really good. Randy, how do you square that with your real golf? Like,

how do you feel about the sandbox? Well, this is where I, this is right? Can you tell everybody how hard it is? The same box is hard. Yeah, yeah. We didn't play our own ball around the sandbox we did like you know the eight man skins game whatever your skin must have been crawling randy's got no shoes on he's just drinking beers all he's out there but tc here's i'll tell you here's how i square it is sedge valley they have a slope and a rating from every t-box possibility on the score card and so you know it honestly it was like going to play colin where it's like i don't mind if the course is shorter i just want to be able to play real golf and post the score and that's check and check at sedge like you know i'm i'm going to hit cups and i'm

going to post my score yeah um got to be able to close your score that's your that's your that's my north star yeah and i unpacked a little of that with dj and milwaukee i like it i liked what you were saying on uh the personal golf spotlight episode too about the uh the usga if you're listening you got to add a little journal section to the uh to the gin app i think that's a really good idea because like who'd i play with could i upload like a picture or two to it yeah i think that's a great a great call i and i don't know if we were going to get there or not but i just wanted to shout out sam valley i did not do they they are like a surprising hub of racket sports uh a little bit and i just wanted to call

that out because if i do go back to sand valley they have eight outdoor grass tennis courts i tc i don't know if you've ever played on grass tennis courts i have not i would love to go back and do that. But what I really think is cool, and it's right by Sedge, the Sedge Clubhouse is their like tennis facility, their locker room. Inside there, they have a court tennis facility, and I would encourage people to like Google court tennis. It is like, I'm still learning about it, but it is the oldest racket sport. It goes back like 900 years. It's like indoor. it's not it doesn't look like tennis at all except there's a ball a racket and a net it's not like racket ball it's really strange but they have this court tennis facility which i think is like

one of the few in the country outside of new york or the northeast and i really really want to do that so if if we're talking video we got to include some tennis uh yeah if we go back to sam valley did you uh randy i guess did you get to talk the ultimate question pro at all that was in there I did. I popped my head in because they sell their own merch too. It's this elephant that's like in a tennis outfit with a little racket. So I bought a couple things from the tennis shop. And I was just chatting with them.

And he says it's great. He says that the tennis activity is really has steadily grown each year since they've opened. He was kind of explaining a little bit of the court tennis stuff to me. Nice kid. Yeah. I really, really want to go back and try that. I'm assuming since it's a proper racquet sports facility that they don't have pickleball. They do not have pickleball T.C.

That's exactly right. I saw zero pickleball courts. Thank God. I've always wanted to go up for their hockey thing, too. I mean, I know I'd get my doors blown off, but I love, I love playing pond hockey, just any hockey. Yeah. I think it would be a, I've talked to Justine about that. I think it'd be a great winter, you know, again, if you're, if you're in the state and you can drive there, I know, I know probably.

someone flying from somewhere to go in the ice cold winter with no mountains is maybe not their thing, but yeah, getting out and, you know, cross-country skiing or ice skating or doing all that and then just going back and sane in a cool cabin and having a great dinner and yeah. Yeah, they have good chefs that come in and. Worst things you can do their time than that, that's for sure. Exactly. Randy, what's your, what's your 10-round split? Between all four of them.

Yeah. Yeah, between all four of them. I think right now, and again, caveats, I've been there once, I've played each of them once. I think I would land at 3-3-2-2. I think I would go three Sand Valley, three sedge, two mammoth, two Lido. About as well-balanced as you can get. Yeah, yeah. That is good.

Dege, what's yours? Yeah, I'm trying to think. I think I would go Man it's hard not to get overzealous on the sedge thing But I do really like it I might go I'd probably go three three two two as well But it would be three sedge three Lido

And then two of the two at each of the original The original ones Sand Valley and Mammoth Sedge is such a good arrival and departure day Of course You know if you're getting in and you have time for one Or if you're like we did We had a morning round, and then we were getting to the airport to fly out that afternoon.

Sedge is wonderful for that. Well, I think that the last thing on San Valley, we can move on. But I think that speaks to what the Commons is going to be as well, which is another course they're opening next year. Like I mentioned, Jim Craig, golf course, 12 holes. I think that I don't know why I had this in my head, but I had in my head that, like, oh, 12 holes. It's called the Commons. Like, this is going to be some, like, kids golf course or something.

and which would be, you know, which would be fine. I just pictured it being like the cradle or something like that. Just kind of a run around and play to whatever hole or whatever. It is not that at all. It is 12 like real golf. Real golf. Very much real golf holes. And they have kind of this like manmade lake that the last three holes kind of weave through and around.

And it is like it's going to be some of the most provocative holes. on the entire resort. It's awesome. It's turned up to a loud volume, especially there's a Redan. I think I played them all out order, but I think it's going to be the 11th hole is going to be this almost like kind of,

is that where the water is like really predominantly involved? Yeah, exactly. That like if you, you know, Redan kind of kicks from right to high right to low left. And at this one, it kind of just like rides the, like the quote unquote coast of this pond lake. thing and so it's like if you miss the green left like i think your ball's just going to roll right

into like they their bunker basically uh just runs right into the water so it's it's kind almost um i don't know it's like bay hill was yeah exactly yes 17 of bay hill it's uh it's gonna it's gonna it's really really cool and just some crazy greens really cool part threes um yeah it's got that massive sand yeah like formation mound thing too yeah just a big I mean just a big ass pile of sand that uh I don't know if that's what they dug the lake dug out of the lake I would imagine uh but yeah that all kind of frames like the first hole there's just a big I don't know how else to describe it if anybody has been there massive you can see it from other courses all over the property yeah yeah so I don't know if they're going to turn that into something if you'd have like a a a toe rope that you could kind of sled or ski or tube down or something but it's uh yeah just a it's just a big ass pile of sand. I don't know what they're going to do with it. Oh, yes. Randy, any senses stick out of the five senses when you're out there?

The food's good, man. The food really is good. Over by the sandbox, they have a little barbecue kind of truck. I did not eat that, but it certainly smelled good, delicious. And the other one I did not eat in. There's a by sedge in the tennis facility. there's a place called the gallery that I think is a little like nicer dining option we did not eat there so where I did eat mammoth bar I think it's called just kind of the main bar in the in the main lodge great everything you need nothing you don't cold beer good good kind of bar food but then Aldos I really enjoyed I went there for breakfast each morning and then we had one nice meal at Aldos I had a great What did I have?

Oh, I had a nice chicken. Yeah, really, really good. And comfortable beds. I mean, honestly, and this is what I tell people about like, I mean, shout out like Dream Golf. Like, they just get the details right, man. It's good. You can count on it. The service, the attention, the details, like, it's quite good.

Maybe Mike and Chris Kaiser should be. be a rider cup captains. I know, I was kind of, the point of the proceedings were in, I'd kind of listen to that conversation. There would be a lot worse choices, yeah.

Well, listen, while we're on the, on the topic of Wisconsin golf, I feel like we had to throw in, Randy got to play Lassonia last week for the first time as well. We have our kind of annual buddies trip, which we did in the greater Milwaukee area this past week,

but got to go up and see Lassonia, which is a place I don't think we've really talked about on the podcast very much. You play both courses? Just the links, just up and up and back. I still never played the Woodland course. Unfortunately, I know it's, it sounds like there's quite a disparity between the two. I know the links gets all the, all the blame for a reason, but the Woodlands looks cool.

It's, it looks tight. It looks very, uh, antithetical to, uh, the links, but for Monroe. Yeah, probably the reason I like the links is you can kind of hit it wherever off the tee. Uh, so I like that, but any Lassonia thoughts from you, big guy? Yeah, well worth the hour and 45 minute drive from Milwaukee. Just cool holes, man. I feel so bad. Like, God, how can I describe this in detail?

It's such a fun place. And DJ, this is, I'm going to give you full credit. But it feels like the type of place that's a melting pot between people that are like super into golf architecture and like really get off on, oh my God, man, they pushed up this green with a steam shovel and the, whatever, 1920s. And then, like, a lot of local people that might be out there in, like, untucked shirt and, you know, just don't even quite realize what this golf course is.

It's just the one that's near them. And I dig that by it greatly. Some blind shots, especially to start. I would say LaSonia is, and it's a low-key big walk, especially getting out there on the back nine. You're kind of trudging uphill a few different times. just big scale but yeah like really fun

interesting unique quirky golf holes that will test you the conditioning was really good I don't know dech help me here like how else do you just say like yeah you should go if you have a chance if you're in the area

definitely I think it's worth it I think the last couple times I've been there it's been like late summer or this type of the fall where it's like man it has It hasn't rained in a couple weeks, and the ball just bounces out there. I mean, some of the T shots, you can just see them bouncing 20 feet in the air. And it's just like, that to me is kind of the, why do you make the hour 45 minute drive?

It's like, well, yeah, the greens are cool and it's a great value and all that. But it's like, man, you just don't get to play that a lot in kind of Midwestern public golf. And so I just, I love seeing that as much as we can. but we had it TC this is I know nobody likes to hear the blow by below of other people's golf round oh I want to hear it we have we have this trip that we've done

the last three years and it's there's four of us it's it's me and our buddy Nick versus Randy and our guy Big T from the Oscars Pod Tim and we had this scenario it's a three day it's always a three day event it's always the same teams

and we had we did 18 holes of four ball at Lassonia and we played 36 holes at Wisconsin Country Club where I play which DJ's course is really He sleeps on it

It's so fun It's such a good piece of land Yeah And they keep doing like The just little incremental improvements Of like hey we're gonna add some short grass over here Or Yeah we're gonna

We're gonna add this little wing of this green They got it's interesting greens It's some it's like challenging It's yeah there's some getable stuff The greens there's a lot going on It's really good But anyway, D. They're also pushing memberships hard.

So we could, we got to cut this part out because I'm trying to get out there and play as much as I can. But 18 holes of four ball, 18 holes of Scotch foursomes, like modified, all-shot. And then 18 holes of singles. I've never seen anything like this, T.C. It came down to both singles.

Again? Both singles matches last hole, last day. Our guy, Big T. Cash is like a 20-footer that just unlocks this apocalyptic scenario where all of a sudden now I have a 12 footer to win the week which I just missed Randy has a 10 footer

to win the week barely misses and our guy Nick has like a nine footer to win the week cashes it me and Nick claim our first victory ever massive massive moment but it's all set up big team make like a 50 footer in the past no he

he catastrophically he hit one 50 feet on like a 30 footer yeah it was it was just complete blackout from from him all of it was set up and i hate to air you out randy by we get to we get to 18 and randy doesn't wait for nick to mark his ball but can you give a little bit more context we were just we were like an hour behind pace we had let three groups through we're like grinding on the back nine of these singles matches there's a guy behind us a single in the fairway. I think the sun had just set maybe. He had just caught us, by the way. He was not

waiting for any haters. No, he wasn't waiting. That guy wasn't waiting. But I'm still like, oh my God, like, let me just go. Nick's like had just hit this kind of flop shot up on the green, but it's off. He's got this long walk. I'm like, my putt, I shouldn't hit his ball. Like, let's just get on with it. I hit my put from the fringe. And it directly hits Nick's ball. like dead dead hits it stops immediately and so it leaves us like nick and i both then have the same exact putt where obviously i went first mine missed and then he he cashed his to win but right car randy's the golf got set up just an unbelievable read i mean it was just it was crazy yeah yeah that's not playing the game the right way randy no it wasn't it wasn't and the lesson

was learned tc you can believe that How did Nick celebrate? Because Nick's like one of the driest, funniest humans I've ever met. I think he, uh, he was just soaking up the moment, I think. You know, I think he embraced the gravity of the moment. He knew the trophies were coming home, uh, with, with the boys. I think he had put me on his back. You know, it was just, uh, it was a pretty, um, pretty earnest celebration from, from the guys.

We needed one. We needed one back. And then he went and out of Ferrette's kicked. Yeah, Fernette and a die Coke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But a great, great week in Milwaukee having those guys here.

But T.C. What? Did you play your club championship this week? Oh, last week. It was bad. It didn't go well. So the night before I was going to, I was going to get a big practice session in before. Like, I was going to go up there like an hour and a half before and hit balls, go to the backside of the range, do the whole deal.

And I've been struggling with my spin rates and my driver. So I adjusted my hazel setting. Back to just like stand. I just took a little loft off my driver. Same setting otherwise. And then I adjusted my three wood and my five wood as well. And all those were great. Like I didn't get to practice them.

So I rolled up to the first tea because I thought my tea time was at like 1120. My tea time was at like 10 or like 10.15. So I legitimately just set my bag down on the range. And they're like, yo, what are you doing? You're on the tea. I'm like, I'm on the tea. what the fuck are you talking about? So I get to the first tee, three putt the first hole for bogey.

We're playing on the lagoon course for the first round. This is our little shorter, you know, shorter like 5,800-jurg course. It's a much harder golf course, in my opinion. It's rated, it's rated a lot easier, it's not. And the wind was blowing, the rough is up, the greens are spicy. The second hole is a drivable par four. The first three holes are kind of funky, and then you really get into it after that. Uh, second hole, driveable par four.

I put it in the left green side bunker. Great, great spot. I get up there. I don't have two of my wedges in my bag. Cause I, I took the kids to the, to the driving range, like two nights before, just to the chipping green two nights before and we're just chipping putting around. So I don't have my 58 degree wedge. I don't have my 54 degree wedge.

Better not miss any greens. And like, that's all Lagoon is. So, like, the entire day, I just had like 60 to 75 yards in. I'm hitting in with like a 48 degree wedge. Putted very poorly. Ended up doing like all the hard stuff really well and then just missed a lot of puds. And then, yeah, just not my day.

And then next day, putt it a lot better but just couldn't hit my irons. And you know what? I drove the ball great. I feel like the new hazel settings, perfect. Everything fit. Maybe lost the battle and won the war. Yeah, yeah.

Between that and just, I don't know, I just need to get it back. I feel like I kind of lost the magic I had going. I know. God, you were playing good golf this summer. Well, you're just getting into golf season now and down there.

I am. I am. Just getting into golf season. I got her friend Greg. Yeah. Greg McCrae from the, you know, the mayor of Aaron.

He's coming over. I think we're going to go over to hide park on Thursday. Randy, you can swing down after you go through Green Bay. Three bones. Yeah, if you got an extra one, T.C.

Let me know. Everybody's been saying it's in great shape right now. Oh, got it. I'm coming down in a couple of weeks. T.C. and I are going to play Hyde Park. I can't wait. I'll scout it out. And then, uh, yes, we're going to play and then, yeah, and then hopefully going over to London here in a couple weeks and play some Heathland stuff there too. So we're to come on that front. And then I just had this crazy dream that, uh, that Brooks kept going on. We're, we're riding around on the Shinkansen, the, the Japanese bullet train all over the country.

to all these different restaurants and they were serving as like Wagyu like Kobe beef Wagyu steaks on the train itself as well. And Brooks just kept saying it's from Japan boss. It all relates back to this highly specific

Instagram or you know Twitter post that he he threw this this picture of like a charred steak up and a really nice bottle of Bordeaux. and somebody commented on it, and then he just responded. It's from Japan, boss.

From Japan, boss. Gosh. Oh, yeah. Hopefully you guys had a good time. Got to play some golf while you were there. Yeah, I think I've been at home for too long. I've been home for the last month. I just need to get back out on the road.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, guys, I think that's going to be the end of the line here, so to speak. But a lot to cover today. Randy, great hearing about the San Valley trip. You know, congrats to all things involved in the Sanderson. I didn't think we're going to go two hours, but here, again, here we are. I think as far as looking at, Henri, looking ahead, we got a fun one coming out this week, a video that I think we started calling, as a joke, we started calling it the influencer tour.

And I think we're just going to call it the influencer tour. So look for that video on the YouTube channel this week. This is Neil and I just kind of road tripping through the greater New England. England area, stopping at a couple of golf courses, doing some influencer things with our friends at Titleist. And it was just one of my favorite trips of the year. It was really, really great. So that video will come out this week.

But other than that, we've got another, another Ryder Cup pod that's going to come out this week. Neil is going to take the lead on that one with our sound mixer, audio producer, Charlie Van Kirk. They captured a ton of audio while they're out at the Ryder Cup. And so I can't wait for this one. We are spinning that up into what should be a pretty fun, pretty interesting podcast. So look for that this week. And other than that, guys, business as usual, I think.

Themsters and ball knowers this week. That's right. So many sports to talk about. I know. I know. I think the, your Yankees aren't looking great, TC, in the early going. Yeah.

The Eagles, lots of disgust there, Randy. The knowers potentially, you know, early on a take there. but it was dead set correct and it's always been it's always been correct diet ball or ball zero I should say sugar-free uh a red a lot heavy took itself one today too yeah red's loss and then uh the brewers yeah yeah got to go to game one man holy smokes what a range of emotions from that michael bush lead off home run to a six run first inning three run second inning just uh randy american family insurance park as you like to call it was uh buzzing was coming apart at the screws yesterday so uh yeah another big one uh as you're listening

to this on monday so guys great time great chatting with you thank you to everybody for listening thanks to our friends at footjoy our friends at the stack and uh we'll catch everybody next time cheers crack on