No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1083: Weekly Recap + Se Ri Pak Deep Dive

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

Soly and Randy review the week highlighted by quotes from Rory on captaining the European Ryder Cup team and what he views as successfully growing the game. We also discuss the amateur reinstatement debate and the reported shakeups at PGA Tour HQ before breaking down Tommy’s win in India on the DP World Tour and Sei Young Kim’s win at the BMW Ladies Championship. In part two (52:00), Randy is joined by Cody and Jordan for a look at the career and legacy of Se Ri Pak. We begin with the origins of golf in her native South Korea and her upbringing and introduction to the game. From there, we learn about the journey to the United States and the LPGA Tour, the pressures she felt from sponsors to compete against the best women in golf, and her major wins - highlighted by the 1998 US Women’s Open. We close with a look at Se Ri’s legacy in the game, particularly the generation of Asian women who have followed her road to success in major championships and the LPGA Tour. Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support our Sponsors: Titleist ⁠The Stack⁠ ⁠Rhoback⁠ If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. I mean, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Langa podcast, Sali here, joined by my guy, Mr. Big Randy.

Hello, Big. How are you? I'm great, Tully. Good to be here. I got my, my Bengal orange. You could say my Bronco orange on this Sunday. Yeah, but we got some good golf stuff to talk about. We're recording this prior to any result, right? So, you know, I guess what the Biggles played Thursday. Yeah, you're in.

We know the Bengals have won. Yes. We do like that. The Broncos are playing. later this afternoon. But this is a rare occurrence when the real golf was played over in Asia so we can go early on a Sunday. I got daylight outside my window right now. It's a beautiful, beautiful day, although my Jags are not looking so pretty this morning. Randy and I are going to chat about a few items, including some Rory Captain C comments, news. Amateur reinstatement is hot

again in these streets. A PGA tour staff shakeup, pretty dramatic, if you will, a little DP World India Championship is a great man Tommy Fleetwood wins there a little bit on the BMW Ladies Championship, then the back half of today's show is going to be a chat you guys did earlier in the week on Sayre Pak, a deep dive if you will, so we've always wanted

to do a deep dive into Sayreepak so stick around for that on the back end. I want to give a shout to our friends at Titleist, Randy. If you saw last week's episode, you saw this big medal over here to my left of Roos Club champions. This could not have been possible without the GT2. If you all

also saw we posted a video. Ben and I played a USGA four ball qualifier this past week. I put it on film, big. We've eradicated the lefts with the GT2 driver. Okay, the importance of getting fit. It's hard to emphasize how, you know, important it is to get fit after, you know, the twins came and the bad back and all that, dude, the GT3 was not working for me anymore. I went through a pretty dramatic body change. And, uh, got refit, put into an all new driver, new shaft. And man, they can, I thought it was all me making all the errors. And listen, it's not been perfect, but they build a golf club that's fit around my golf swing. And I'm having a lot more fun playing golf.

So if that's not a great endorsement for getting fit and the Titleist GT series, I don't know what it is. You can go to Titles.com to find a fitter near you. And it's going to help you undoubtedly. Just talk to them. Talk to them about what's going on, what your misses are, and they can help it. Because it was a trap draw goal of mine to eradicate the lefts this year. For the first time, I'm starting to see a world where that might come to fruition. Checking off a goal would be massive, Sully.

You know what else is hot in the streets right now. You can, I'm going to start it by saying you can go to the stack system.com slash NLU code no laying up for 10% off the stack bundle. You've heard me talk about the speed training. Like that's enough right there to go ahead and subscribe to the stack, get the bundle, get going on all that. But also the fact that there's stacked wedges. And if you haven't listened to the episode from this past week, stack putting straight up. It's the best way to practice the putts that matter and to gather information around different putting methods. you might be trying how to put you know if you want to try cross-handed if you want to try the saw

or the lobster as neil calls it or if you want to put with a mallet or randy if i may i'd like to introduce you to the first topic of today's episode heads up putting sasha mackenzie was on the episode this past week and was adamant uh has done studies on this to say heads up looking at the hole or looking at a target a far away target while you're putting is decidedly the best way to do it it is hot in the streets i have gotten more messages about this than this past week than anything uh anything else we've covered in recent months of people that have tried this and have been had gotten shockingly positive results including our own dj pie are you up on all this i am i am i can tell you yesterday saturday i played in the final roost event out here in denver the rocky

mountain rollers that's the name of our roost great format it was a two man four club best ball for 18 holes where you have to use four distinct clubs on the front nine, four distinct clubs on the back nine. And then the final nine is an alt shot where you have to each guy has to use four different clubs. So essentially you're using just about every club in your back. But I say all that, Holly, because the amount of people I heard asking whether they should try heads up putting was it was amazing. I don't know. There was nobody in our group who was actually brave enough to try it, to just give it a go in competition right from the bat, but a lot of people are interested. And you can count me among those that are at least interested. I am not a good putter. I've never been a good putter. I've never tried heads up putting. And honestly, listening to Dr. Sasho and hearing DJ's early rave reviews, like I at least want to try it.

Count me in. There's nothing for me to lose. So I look forward to trying it. You and I, we're all going down to the Dallas area this coming week, to Frisco. I'm not sure again. I'm not sure if that's the time to like bust it out. But we, who knows? We may give it a go to be determined on that. It would be bold to put it in play immediately at the club championship on camera. But it the his whole, here's why it was so convincing to me was one, it was an immediate effect right it's not like hey people spent months practicing heads up putting and they got better doing it it was like no no just rolling off you know whatever into a study people were better at heads up putting than they were their their own preferred method i've messed

with it at times but i needed it explained to me exactly why because i did not understand the effects of all right basically sasha's saying your face at impact matters way more than your path which I've never that's not how I've thought of putting and speed being a lot more important than you know where you strike it on the putter or your path so if you don't need to look at the ball uh you know to give yourself an idea of what the path is or it doesn't matter where you hit it on terms of where on the face then that's like well why wouldn't you look up at the target right and so it I'm curious to try it I'm going to do stack putting and I'm going to do a bunch of sessions like to actually monitor the difference and I'll come back with an answer. or sometime before the end of this year, hopefully, on what the actual effect of it is. But, man, I mean, I'm getting Instagram messages all over the place. I mean, truly, a radicalization is going. You know, it feels overwhelming when you get all the incoming messages,

but I'm really surprised at all the comments from it. Let me ask you this. Does any part of, I think where I naturally reside is I can certainly see it being helpful and beneficial on longer putts, It makes me a little bit more nervous. I guess I'm a little bit more apprehensive thinking about shorter puts, but I don't know if I should be. Does that make sense at all to you?

Or is there one part where you're like, I don't know about it in that situation? I can see myself adopting a bit of a hybrid mode of I'm picturing like a 10 footer. I feel like I might look like halfway. You know what I mean? It might be like, because I think my eyes. Pick out something that you want the ball to roll over. And I kind of pick something six inches in front of the ball anyways. So I'm kind of like, all right, maybe I can, you know, look a little bit further down the way.

And I don't know. I'm going to mess with it, man. Yeah. It's something, honestly, the only reason not to is I'm feeling like I'd look stupid. Like, none of the top players in the world do this. So like, why is it decidedly better? I don't know. Let's go find out.

I trust that man, though. He is well researched. There's no, he did not reach this conclusion just off a whim. I can tell you that. Like I said, I want to try it. I truly think I'll hit some absolutely horrendous putts. but I guess that's just part of the process. And usually I'm joking when I say this.

Let us know in the comments, though, if you've tried. I really want all of the feedback because I haven't gotten one single person that's tried it and been like that was a horrible idea. It's all been like, man, I had no three putts yesterday. That was really interesting. Because I got to think if you're a really good putter traditionally, you're probably not feeling a need to change things. So it's probably a lot of folks that are searching for something. And so, yeah, if the overwhelming feedback is like, yeah, it's not going to hurt anymore and it can only help then i'd be crazy not to try it so yeah that's

why i want to start right there randy because i think searching for something is something you know you've been on a journey uh walk about uh tried to find something with putter so i want to hear i want to hear report from that you want to take us to our next uh topic of the day yeah yeah i think uh listen rory mackleroy was over in india playing in the the dp world tour event we're going to get into that in just a little bit. But at press conferences earlier this week, he was asked naturally about the Ryder Cup and specifically about if he has hopes to be the captain one day. I don't think it is breaking any news to say Rory is interested. But, Holly, let me read you the quote and then I want to ask you a question. Rory, in response to being asked about the Ryder

Cup captaincy and whether he'd won it, quote, absolutely. I would love to be a captain one day and I feel very fortunate that I've had a few front rows, that I've had a front row seat playing under some of the best captains in history in the Ryder Cup. He goes on to name them. Rory then again, but I'd say not until mid-2030s, hopefully, if I can keep playing well. And so, Sally, my question is, Rory right now is 36 years old. If we kind of take him at his word here, and let's say 10 years from now at 46, Does that feel right to you as far as potential timing for Rory and the Ryder Cup captaincy? I was talking about this big. That honestly still feels a little early to me.

Justin Rose played him when he's 45 years old in three months and just played in another Ryder Cup. And I don't think he thinks he's done playing in them. I think he very much wants to be a part of that team in Ireland. How long does Rory's career last? I mean, we're talking about one of the great talents of our generation. I don't think he'll be done in 10 years. I don't think he'll be not one of the 12 best Europeans in 10 years.

And how integral he is to the glue of that team and how he has, you know, without patting himself on the back for it, he's been like the sevy of the generation of like, I'm the best player and I'm going to put my heart and soul into this. You know what I mean? There's not like a, like Tiger Woods aging out of it. It was kind of like, okay, man, I know there's some injury stuff. maybe that's a bad example of like yeah it's kind of time for you to go man like you weren't really

that effective in in the player and i'm going to say i'm using air quotes around player captain role like being the player leader he was not effective in it rory is very effective at that and i don't know if he needs to be a captain anytime soon i don't think he is said out loud i don't want to be a player captain so honestly if you had told it just you know off the cut if you just ask that question does that make sense 10 years from now for him to be a radical captain I'm going to be like, yeah, that probably is right. But at age 46, I don't think he's going to be done by then. I know he's intimated that maybe he is not going to take golf as serious past 45,

but I think maybe age 48 might be the first time it starts to get a little bit real for him. What do you think? Yeah, there's nothing I really disagree with there. I was like you where when I first read that and, you know, the mid-2030s sounds so far away, but it's like, yeah, it's only just 10 years. I thought Rory could certainly be playing world-class golf at that age. And as you said, though, it's going to be up to him whether he really wants to keep up with the full-time grind of professional golf.

And so I do think it's probably up to Rory, how much past age 40 even we see him playing a full, full, like, global schedule. and I know, like, some of that's going to depend on what changes we see with professional golf here over the next several years. So, yeah, I think, though, like that 48 years old, that makes a lot of sense to me. But I do think Rory's the type of guy, like, if he's committed and motivated to be playing, like, there's no reason he's not going to be one of the 12 best Europeans and truly, you know, could have shots at, major championships. I mean, guy like Phil Mickelson, won the PGA at age, what, 50, 51?

Not saying Rory will necessarily win majors, but I don't see his game aging poorly. And he's been able to avoid injuries. So yeah, I think it's just up to him. So if anything, maybe he's telling us, like, hey, I got about 10 years left of, like, really playing. And then I like to start transitioning to other things.

So I just thought it was interesting. Yeah. Well, you know, I was thinking about through the lens of this question was like, what is, what is Rory, this entire generation, this younger group of guys that we've followed very closely for the decade that we've been doing this. What's it going to be like when they are 50? And there's kind of two routes. I mean, Phil won a major at age 51. And then I think of like, imagine if we, you and I were covering Ernie L's during the prime of his career. And, you know, he was one of the

greatest players, you know, we have ever seen. And in our generation won four majors. Like, It was a, you know, a globe, globe trotter played all over the world, won all over the world, was just truly a very, very, very, very good golfer. It was a challenger to Tiger. And then, like, you know, he's playing in his 50s and he's just playing champion store events and no one ever thinks or talks about it. You know what I mean? Like, I can't imagine, I mean, Rory has said he doesn't want to play the champions

tour, but imagine him just kind of like out there on the champions tour playing relatively insignificant golf for the world's sake, you know? It's just a funny, a funny thought in that, you know, and Grant and Phil showed up in the Champions Tour and just started dominating the darn thing. So before moving on to Sable Offshore, but I don't know, it's just very funny to think about, like, like, JT, is he going to go, like, dominate the senior tour?

Are they going to, are all these people going to call it? I feel like we're going to see more guys call. I mean, I guess it's going to be the true sickos that just have to play and have to have that competitive juice because, like, the money these guys are earning as when we talk about JT and Rory and like the best of the best right that they certainly aren't going to have to go play champions tour to like keep earning money you wouldn't think and so but neither would earn you too like that's what I'm saying like right that guy had to have made I mean made I think 50 million on the PJ tour it says career

AI is estimating 685 million in career earnings business and endorsement income like he's not out there for the money but those guys i don't know i ernie's a guy that does not want to hang it up or does not it seems very interested in the grind yeah i don't know why ernie came to mind it was just yeah like they just they're they're still out there doing it man we know it we never talk about it but they are out there doing it yeah i know i and then like truthfully is the champions tour as we know it even going to be a thing in 10 years like i could see it being either going away completely or being something totally, totally different. So I guess that's another consideration.

Well, let me follow up with Rory real quick, Sali. The same news conference this week, James Colgan wrote about this on golf.com. I want to give him a shout out. Royer was asked about growing the game of golf. Again, this comes on the heels of contentious Ryder Cup, to say the least, especially as it was directed to Rory McElroy. and just talking about what pro golf should be, what it can be. And also like through the lens of Brian Rolap, who has come over from the National Football League and in his introductory press conference has alluded to and signaled like some real significant change coming to the tour.

So let me quote Rory here about the game of golf and growing it. Rory said, quote, I say it in America all the time. doesn't need to be the NFL. It doesn't need to be these other sports. Golf is golf, and that's fine. He goes on to say about growing it. I think there has to be a balance. I certainly think that golf can grow,

but it can grow in a way where the people that are coming into the game still respect and acknowledge that this is a little bit different than other sports. So I think this is an interesting thought exercise. It's an interesting question. And we're not going to, you know, we can kind of just scratch the surface here. But how do you, what's the growth potential in your mind of pro golf? And is, is there a way to like make professional golf, let's say here in America, a lot bigger while still keeping some of those unique traditional characteristics of, you know, fans being very quiet

and polite and not cheering against guys necessarily. Like, can those two ideas coexist, in your opinion? I think they can. I think this ventures into a little bit where I feel more, I would say, quite unqualified. There's a lot of things I talk about that I'm quite unqualified to speak on. But getting very much into the unqualified stuff of like how to build that and how to do things. And even like where the PGA tour is going, right? I was reading an interview, Gary McCord did this past week.

I apologize, I forget who it was with, but just talking about making these tournaments themselves into individual franchises. And without having the time to sit down and think about it myself, I'm like, I don't know if I can fully explain what he's explaining here. It makes sense to me what he's saying, but like it's kind of more of the, you know, the future of golf. There's just so many complications that come into this with 501C6 and now we're a for-profit entity and blah, blah, blah, blah.

that like I usually try to tackle this problem just specifically from the fan standpoint of like how do you make the product interesting took for us to watch right how do you make the that has always started with blowing up the current media deal getting rid of the commercialization structure that you currently have around the event can't have it looking like the rider cup look I know it's a PJ of America event but you know how bay hill tends to look up against the players the very next week they need golf needs to look a lot more like the players right people the players rates better on television the players has a much better brand than a lot of these other events does it has you know it's not a major championship but it has some um panache in the golf world it has some buzz and it reaches some casuals that are not the biggest golf fans i would compare it to let's say f i hate we've always used f1 over the years but like people know monaco right like and they might tune into that's ironically that's the most boring race to watch but they might tune in to watch monaco right so how can you elevate a certain level of other events to to to reach somewhat of that level is where I think the tour is on the right path. That's why I've been such a fan of the signature event model. I think there is still so much watering down of like when you tune in on a Sunday. Is this a signature event? Is it not a signature event? What does that actually mean?

What is the championship anyways? I think people just like to flip on golf and watch it is the core of it. So how do you make people more engaged in the championship is the challenge that's ahead of them? aside from all of the actual like money and franchise and actual growth of the business challenges that I honestly don't think a million like the listeners of the show need to care that much about you know what I mean because it all distills down into what the product ends up looking like so I think there's growth potential in pro golf I really do I mean there are people that tune in myself included to tune in to watch idiots like you and me play golf on YouTube like clearly the the appetite for golf is out there there's more and more people playing the game. Golf is still hot in these streets, Randy. And I wish I could give you a step by step on exactly how to do it. But I see, I trust Rolap and his vision.

I think a couple of the quotes. And again, came in and said, I'm looking to make significant change. I think we all cheered that. A couple of them kind of like, all right, man,

I don't know about all of this direction. I'm not going to, I don't know if I can't tell you whether you're right or wrong about any of these things. But I'm not like positive that we're going to love, love it all by the end, but I know that we needed to move on from how it's currently set up. Does that make sense? Yes, that makes sense. And I think where I net out on the change specifically is like, we all agree.

There needs to be significant change. Now, when you break down that change into a series of individual decisions, are we going to agree or think every single one is a great idea? Probably not. But I do think in totality, I trust that roll app at least has a good idea of where he wants to go and a vision. And I just note that like the NFL more so really than any other professional sport. I'm trying to think of others. Maybe there are some.

But like what is part of the secret sauce of the NFL? it's like it's a bit of the scarcity and they're only being now 17 regular season games across, you know, September through the end of December. And so when you talk about the signature event model, like I do think that's where the upper crust of the PGA tour is headed is to fewer events. But hopefully they all, like you said, the players, they have to make a way whatever that number of events is in the end how can you make them feel big and important right because the majors do and the players does to to a certain extent but if you're really trying to bring in casuals

and you're trying to grow this thing you got to tell stories about why this event is important i think that's that's where their work's going to be really in front of them uh venues go hand in hand with that golf on interesting courses seeing guys tested right like that all plays a part of it so i'm i'm like you i do think there is some growth potential certainly but it's going to require major major change and it's going to be fascinating what it looks like yeah and that's the thing is like there's the the reason behind why some of these stuff hasn't happened for so long is because it's they're held back by the current structure right of like and we've talked to with this a lot over the years where, you know, their goal is to put on as many golf tournaments

as possible for as much money as possible. Like that's the 501c6 trade organization essential. I'm paraphrasing, of course, that's the mission statement, right? So changing the mission statement allows you to change that structure and unwinding all of that is a job that was not going to be possible with the people that were currently there. And we can, we can transition that into another topic we were going to discuss here to say, and we'll get to that here in a second. But I say all that to say, blowing up, again, the signature event is a tack on. It's a, it's a, it's a product of the old system, but it still involves blowing up a media deal. Brian Rolap knows media deals, right?

And that's, I don't know if they're going to be able to blow it up before 2030 or if that's a possibility at all. But like, at minimum, get me to 2030 where the sport is going to look very, very different in terms of how it's structured where it's where you're watching it. And, you know, kind of the system that we've known. it all to be can be torn down and built back up. At least that's like what they are trying to do. So do you do you think the in person experience can change that much? I, you know, maybe it's like more hospital.

Well, people like going to golf tournaments, I think, you know. And they do. But I think the dirty little secret is unless you're in a nice hospitality area where you can watch the tournament on TV like don't go to a golf tournament. If you actually care about what's.

going on broadly with the golf tournament. I think it's like a great day just to be outside and if you're there with friends and you're kind of walking around, having some drinks, but it's tough to actually watch golf when you're at a golf tournament. And I just wonder how much that consideration is kind of looming for anything going forward. This is going to be a very backhanded compliment. But I'll say, look, live golf has not figured out how to capture the attention of people,

but they have seemed, I've never been to one, but they've never been to one, but they've seem to have captured the in-person experience, right? You're outside, you're watching golfers come by. Like, I think 75 plus percent of people that go to a tournament, that's not, they don't think beyond that, right? And I get that's very different than like a Broncos fan being intimately obsessed with every, every move, every, you know, every transaction that their team makes. It just, that's something where I'm like, you know, Brian has said some stuff about parity

and about, you know, how the NFL has parity and how that plays to its strength. And I'm like, that's not, that's not, that's not, that's not the golf with golf. You need your stars. You need guys to dominate. Yeah. And I think if you think you can elevate JJ Spawn to that star level where someone's going to passionately care about his results, that would be the most remarkable achievement of your, of your, of your tenure, I think.

But people feel that way about four or five guys, I think is, is kind of the point. But anyway, it's a complicated way. But I'll bridge this into some news. This was from Golf Week. I hope I'm saying this right. Drove Prasad has been hired as the new chief commercial officer. Paul Hicks has been hired as executive vice president of strategic communications and public policy. The tour also announced that longtime tour executives, Rick Anderson, who is the current CCO, and Allison Keller, the chief administration officer, are retiring at the end of the year.

Additionally, Len Brown is transitioning from his current role as chief global business ventures to a new role as special advisor to the tour, reporting to Brian Rolap. Some details on Prasad. He was most recently served as the SVP of business development and strategic investments at the NFL, a role in which he oversaw media and content partnerships as well as the NFL's investment platform, 32 Equity. He, I couldn't quite figure out the time, and he left the NFL about a month ago.

So I don't know if it was a, I'm resigning and then going to take the tour job after a certain time or if he was hired away or exactly what happened here. So Randy, these are some big, massive changes. Rick Anderson, Alison Keller. My question here is, who's going to be left when this is all said? Is it going to be a complete turnover here? And I don't say this in such a celebratory tone from a human perspective, right? We're not, we're not necessarily. We've gotten to know a lot of these people. I live just down the street from tour headquarters. Like, I'm not rooting for

everyone to get to get the boot, you know, necessarily. They're given quite nice retirement packages on the way out. And there is some major turnover that we won't want to see. But again, I'm kind of, I get a little, I don't know, a little bit of trepidation about how much this is all going. And are we positive we're going to like the final product of this? I'm going to play devil's advocate here because I, we've been calling for this for a long time. But like, am I, you know, is this a big careful what you wish for situation? I don't think so. I change as much needed. So I'm going to continue to have trust in roll-up in the process. I think especially with somebody coming in totally outside of golf, outside of the PGA

tour, it is natural to see, and we will continue seeing changeover in leadership positions. I don't begrudge Brian Rolap for wanting people around him that he is most comfortable with, some people he's familiar with already from prior jobs like nothing about this i don't think should be surprising and like you said it's it stinks for the people that maybe are leaving that aren't choosing to leave like we're i'm not here to to dance on their grave necessarily but we've been wanting big change with pGA tour golf and i think the only way to get there is to get new people, new thoughts, new ideas inside that building and to start working. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I think we're going to see a ton of turnover at kind of these hired levels. And ultimately, we'll see what the final product kind of turns out to be in a few years. But I think it's natural. And I do think it's a good thing for professional golf, the PGA tour. Yeah. And I think the interesting thing here is major, major, major positions of the tour are changing over and the fact that Prasad's coming from the NFL as well and that he worked on the equity side. I don't know enough about 32 equity. It's the first I've heard of it, to be honest. I don't follow the NFL that closely. But again, under an equity model at the PGA tour. And I guess my only, you know, I think it is a very good case. be, hey, we should hire people from the NFL as the most successful sports league in the American history, like, bring them on over. Is there any concern of like, hey, too much NFL here and, you know, not enough golf

expertise? I'm searching for things to challenge this on, but do you have any of that concern? I, like, hypothetically, sure. I think if you get too far away from folks that have a good understanding of the game of golf And because listen, as going back to what Rory said, like golf is never going to be the NFL. Right. And golf doesn't have to be the NFL. And so you do want to make sure there's a bit of balance inside the building between people that have big, big dreams and want to see big projects and ideas undertaken, along with folks that are like, hey, let me give you some real world kind of info and opinion on.

maybe what's possible with golf. So I think like anything, it's going to take a balance. I don't know. I kind of default until Roelap gives us evidence that like he's not a good decision maker. I'm going to trust him with personnel stuff. And yeah, I'm not going to be worrying about that right now. But I do think it's like hypothetically, yes, it's possible. That was the only.

I just feel like we've done nothing. but he prays upon the yeah blow it up blow it up blow it up and just wanted to at least have a little little chatter in there about it might not end up exactly how we want it but uh it's still i'm seeing 99% of like yeah this is this is this has got me really juiced up and excited so yeah real quick yeah last topic do you want to or sorry you go ahead i'll i'll go ahead and bring it in here the amateur reinstatement topic is back colton no stirred up controversy this week by declaring he is seeking to be reinstated as an amateur with hopes to compete in the U.S. midam. Then his story kind of changed a little bit about now he wants to maybe he wants to be eventual

Walker Cup captain. Colts spent eight years on the PGA tour, played in 199 events, made over $4.3 million. I believe it was, I think it was intimated to him that it would be a seven-year wait period, but he's already, I don't know if on good behavior, if that becomes less or whatnot, but he's already served five years. in theory could be competing in the mid-am soon. Is this a canary in the coal mine situation, Randy? Is this the, to me, this is a little bit like,

I'm kind of rooting for the Dodgers to win the World Series, so baseball gets blown up. I'm kind of rooting for more dominoes like this to fall for the USGA to finally say, like, hey, we got a problem here. I think it sucks. Yeah, and this is nothing to do with Colt knows. He's just the latest example. I think Colt is honestly might be doing something heroic here.

I was mad when I first read it. Then I'm like, you know what, dude? I think this might be like, I might be thanking you for this. And I will say this. This is never going to affect me personally. This theoretically, Sali, like you've played in some big amateur events and you could play in more amateur, senior amateur events. Like this could affect you in a much more tangible way than it will ever affect me. But I think just philosophically, I don't think this will surprise people that have listened to the show and know.

me and my opinions at all. I think the decision that everybody is faced with at one time to turn pro or not to turn pro should be a much bigger decision. And I think with that, it should be much harder at a minimum, damn near impossible even to go from playing a significant amount of pro golf. I'd even say, like, any pro golf, to then going back and just becoming an amateur. Like, I think it's truly like you either cross the Rubicon or you don't. I call me old fashion, call me whatever, but like that's part of the lore and uniqueness of golf that I kind of have always dug.

Like, I think that's cool how you can choose to stay an amateur. And you have these events through the USGA that you can compete in throughout your life as an amateur. And if you're coming out of college as a young kid and you want to turn pro and you want to go play in Latin America or Canada and it doesn't work out, like, guess what? You're a professional. And if you want to stay in the game and if you want to keep competing, maybe think about becoming a teaching professional and playing in your local PGA of America tournaments.

You know, there's quite a few tournaments you can get involved in that way. and scratch that competitive edge. I just think they should be very different things. And I know in reality, those lines can get blurred. I'm not naive to that. But with a guy like Colt Nose, who's played in almost 200 tour events, I forget the guy,

he was just in like the semis of the senior AM earlier this year that have played in hundreds and hundreds of Mike Sposa, between the PGA Tour and the Champions Tour. Like, those guys just shouldn't. there has to be a point where you play enough professional golf becoming an amateur again is off the table and i feel very strongly about that to the point where like i think this is one of the more righteous arguments and causes in golf right now so yeah i i i think i think it's very clear but i'm curious if you feel differently at all i'm going to start by saying let me i'm like i'm

I'm trending towards a two handicapped right now. This does not affect me anymore. Okay, it doesn't. The previous version of me that was good for like six months. Sure, I was good for like six months, but that time has passed. One, how did you might know the answer to this. How would it work if like a former NBA player wanted to play like a men's over 40 league? Like do like pick up basketball or like somewhat organized men's leagues have a no pro rule involved in it?

Like I imagine the line's got to be blurred in other sports as well. probably not as much is what I'm thinking but basketball seems has to be in some way like or adult flag football they just let like de angelo williams come play on that team or something like that i don't know why he came into my mind first i'm thinking like clayton kershaw is going to go play in like an over 40 wood bat league here in a few years you know like it just i to your to your point about basketball i know there are some like pro leagues right where like former pros are playing you know they're more like summer league leagues. Nothing rises to the level, though, of the, like a USGA championship is so special,

right? Yes. And that's kind of the reason why I think an easy application here. U.S. midam, if you've played professional, you're not, no longer eligible. And I get that like your local city tournaments are a lot more, you know, your local club championships or whatever are a lot more nuanced and you don't want to eliminate these people being able to not play competitive golf ever again. but like a national championship should not be dominated by all former pros. And this aging period does nothing for me. Like, Colt is, you know, you could make Colts aging period 10 years, and he's not going to be worse in 10 years than he is, you know.

And he still played 200 PGA tour events. Like that doesn't go away. Like he's not going to be like ready to go, you know, consistently make cuts on the PGA tour. But the whole point is like he has done that before. Like, his C game is so much better than the best mid-ams or ever could dream of being the true mid-ams. So it's, I just think, like, I was getting ready to say,

the USGA should create like a new division where, you know, you can be a former pro and you've waited so long without competing professionally. But I'm like, they haven't opened. That's the U.S. Open. Like, go qualify for the U.S. Open, right? I think there should be a specialness about, the amateur events and I just don't buy

that oh just wait five years and yeah we'll just make you an amateur again and you come compete like I think that's bullshit honestly I really do God I love getting you seeing you passionate and sorry last thing and if the USGA does like at least make

all of this public at least have like one cohesive overarching this is how you get your amateur status back so everybody knows exactly what has to happen. Everybody's on the same page. Like, put it all out in the open

if we're going to go this route. Rani, on the professional golf front this past week, the DP World India Championship was all of the buzz. Keita Nakajima, he took a two-shot lead into the final round over young Tommy Fleetwood. Shane Lowry was three shots back. Tommy, lad, got it done. Shot a final round 65 to hunt him down.

He buried the first hole. and actually made a bogey on the second hole but responded with four straight birdies on hole 7 through 10 to get to minus 20 and tied Daniel Hillier who went out in 30 and birdied the 10th hole but made double bogey on the par 5,

14th when it looks like I didn't see the clip it looks like via the shot tracker he lost a ball on his second shot. Unbelievably narrow golf course at India. Rory played this event with no driver at least one of the rounds I saw. I don't know if he had his driver in play at all this past weekend but quite a unique golf course

Tommy then later birdied both the back nine par five to get it to 22 under par. Man, the highlights are worth watching. The dude was just draining putts from everywhere. It was triumphant. The dude that we've been waiting to be the closer and make putts on a Sunday, go hunt somebody down, go do it, poured it in from everywhere. I thought when I was turned the highlights on to watch today

that we were going to see a ball striking exhibition, it was fine, but it was a putting exhibition. They don't have strokes gain numbers for the round, but it was really, really, really freaking good. So, uh, Nakajima played both. free on Sunday, but did not birdie any of the par fives on Sunday. This was Tommy's first win

with the great man Frankie in attendance as well, trying his hardest out there, putting a cat, and Tommy season's not done, but the second win of the season, eighth top five, his best strokes gain year ever with over two strokes gain per round. It's his best putting season, been his best iron season, top five in the OWGR and in data golf.

Are you convinced yet, Randy? What's the guy got to do? What's he got to do? No, listen, I was getting ready to say, like, oh, my God, am I going to have to start just getting used to living in a world where Tommy Fleetwood is an absolute killer? I may have to, you know, coming off that Ryder Cup performance, listen, I know he's played well in previous Rider Cups too, but you combine it with finally getting the monkey off his back with a PGA tour win. Oh, man, are, you know, kind of what we were talking about with Rory after winning the Masters, like this sense of. just feeling freed up, right, and playing with confidence and knowing that you can go close a win and chase it down. Like, maybe that's what Tommy is going to be displaying these next couple years. Like, I wouldn't rule it out. I'm, I'm not, I kind of felt like with the Ryder Cup

and anointing him a great man, like, I'm going to shut my mouth on Tommy. And I'm going to say he very well could be a killer like it could be a huge 2026 for him i don't know i love it uh i'm i'm very happy for him it's it's just impressive to see somebody make such a huge leap without being one of the longer players like to be just like almost dead average in in distance and to do it kind of kind of the morocawa way but with way better skills around the green than morocawa is uh just where i'm really intrigued he's an excellent excellent excellent iron player he was not he's not the best iron player in the world like morcala was at his peak but it's it's a really interesting formula of being accurate off the tea average in length really good with your irons

from wherever you're driving it and now being one of the best putters in the world i mean averaging almost a half shot gained per round on the greens he's also excellent around the greens it's a really really solid formula man it's just sprinkling confidence right and like yeah sky's the limit man like when you guys inevitably pick him to win multiple majors next year i'm not going to just start laughing out of hand i won't like i i'm not saying he will but it's not as silly as it was this time last year it's going to be up to us to pick him tron's not allowed to pick him to win any majors next year so uh maybe i'll pick him it might be the tommy slam next year yeah i'm sure he's going to abide by that also you can't

can't let tc and and and stern roll over me like that on the ball knowers pot about the brewers before it ever happens you know all solies in shambles analytics boys analytics boy was right about the brewers all right you got to stand out you got to stick up for your boy every now and then randy that was some bullshit i'm looking at you bob more than anything but uh yeah sorry the exit vlo wasn't so great for the for the brewers against the dodgers i'm sorry to DJ this is not directed to you know i like to straddle those fences whenever i care i know uh and also otani probably had the best game in the history of like considering it was a playoff game like the guy's the best baseball player in the history of the world i don't know why we're talking about

him all of a sudden but it's incredible i'm dying to get on another steepsters uh we'll we'll be we'll be back with that one soon randy say on kim four shot win at the bmw ladies championship this one also happened in the middle of night didn't get to catch much of this but i want to shout the l l pGA condensed rounds on youtube they make it super easy to catch up on things you've missed They're doing some numbies on there, too. I mean, just watching the third round highlights overnight, like 50,000 views on that. I imagine it's a decent size Korean impact, not especially with the event in Korea. But a lot of the, I mean, the DP World Mountain has, they have those condensed rounds, too.

I know the tour does too, but it's a lot of putts. And the LPGA shows a lot of golf shots in there. You get an idea of how the golf course was playing. And so I wanted to shout that out. Didn't look like it was the most exciting golf tournament to say on Kim. Took a four shot leading the final round, shot 67, and one by four as well over Nassah. Tataoka. Yeah, credit to Say Young. This was, like you said, the BMW championship in Korea. So I'm sure the home fans were very excited to see one of theirs win. Say Young, I believe 13th career LPGA victory. You know, last week we had snapped that parody that that was occurring where it was like 26 different winners in the first 25 events of the year. Gino Titicum won last year. that unfortunately has ended not much to add here she it was pretty clinical performance from say young

she was in control all weekend wins by four she's one of those players like she she can't get to that top gear as maybe as often as she used to she's 32 years old now she is a major winner but certainly can get there on any individual week and i think that this was one of those. So just really proper form. The ladies are staying in Korea. So the International Crown, which is the team competition, essentially made up of eight countries. One of those countries is a world team. So it's going to feature Lydia Coe and Charlie Hall, Brooke Henderson. I forget who the fourth player is on the team world, but essentially eight four women teams competing in kind of mini Ryder Cup

Solheim Cup competition, if you will, this next week. So back-to-back weeks in Korea, women's golf is huge in Korea to kind of tease what our big segment here at the end is going to be. But yeah, for the LPGA in general, they have a few more tournaments after the international crown.

They'll go to Malaysia, and then they'll finish this Asian swing in Japan before returning to Florida for the final two regular season events of the year. So a lot more kind of overnight primetime golf, if you will, these next few weeks on the LPGA tour. A few more items here to get to before we turn it over to this savory pock discussion. I do have to report, and maybe this isn't news, but I just saw it and it sent to me on Instagram today.

The wing foot has fallen, these big letter hats. If you were watching on YouTube, the foot, this was sent over. Honestly, I'm shocked that the foot hadn't fallen yet. Maybe it had. Maybe it had, but this is the, I believe the first I've seen of this. So I wanted to update the people we promised you that we would update you on those. Josh Carpenter reported this week that Cadillac likely to be the sponsor of the new signature event at Trump Doral. And Randy, I sent a note to DJ last night for our heads-up putting.

discussion here and I asked him for a statement on it to be read on the air. And I did not get one before we hit record, but I got one that I'm ready to run now. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Okay. This is from the DJ Pi himself again on the topic of heads of prodding. From the desk of Mr. Pahouski. For immediate release on Thursday, October 16th, DJ Paiowski, doing business as quote,

DJ Pi, heavily influenced by episode 1882 of the no laying it up, podcast experimented with quote heads up putting over the course of nine holes at his home course at this time he is not willing to commit to anything long term but felt duty bound to explore the technique in the interest of constant improvement like bryson de shambo he loves he quote loves hearing about and understanding the growing of human potential end quote early returns were shocking but positive after a three minute practice session dj pie had zero three puts and made everything inside of six feet he looked and felt particularly confident over the three and four footers to typically produce

tightness and anxiety. He struggled with getting long uphill putts to the hole but left confident that adjustment could be made with some simple practice. He felt like a, quote, jackass over the first few putts, but that feeling was quickly subsided, particularly as putts continued to fall. It was reported that more than one playing partner

was convinced to try the technique mid-round after seeing the success. While the first run was great, DJ Pye couldn't help it feel a deep disappointment and borderline betrayal from NLU hosts Chris, quote, quote, Sallie Solomon for releasing such a, quote, mind fuck episode the week before the no laying up club

championship set to take place in Frisco, Texas. By House, he has now no idea whether he will put heads up or heads down during his most prestigious championship of the year, a fact that solidifies his status as, quote, a laughable long shot to win the title. His putting strategy remains day-to-day, signed off 30. That's great. I really appreciate that.

Thank you for getting that into the gun. Before we get to Sayri Pock, sorry, did you have something? No, I just hate seeing my guy, DJ, just, you know, even deeper in his own head. That's going to be a storyline to watch this coming week. I would laugh if I wasn't right there along with him, just haven't tried it yet. I got one round in before we start that club championships. I might, we'll see. Before we do, fall golf is here, and you already know Roeback is our go-to for polos,

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They're just my absolute favorite golf pants I've ever worn. I've got them in every single color. Second, a new one for us. We haven't talked much about the Fulton vest from Roeback. The vest is awesome. It's got a nice light insulation to keep you warm, but it's not bulky. It's got interior and exterior pockets. It's a great layering piece as we still hit the course despite the temperature dropping.

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Roeback has you covered. Randy, let's get to your D.E. dive on say repok. On the LPGA schedule this year, we have the International Crown, which is a team event that's played every two years. And it rotates between, not only between sites, but between countries. This coming week, it returns to South Korea. It's the first time the event has been played in South Korea since 2018. Of course, we just completed and chatted about the BMW Ladies championship in Korea. So with this women's golf back-to-back events in Korea, it feels like as good a time as

any to do a bit of a dive into how and why women's golf specifically has become such a big thing in Korea. And to lead us on that dive, I want to bring in Jordan Perez. My good friend Cody is here as well. Jordan, we tasked you with kind of doing some research. and walking us through how we have arrived at the point today where women's golf is big in South Korea. Women's golf is massive in South Korea.

And once upon a time, it was not. And I think the way that it came into such popularity and prominence is this is one of the more interesting research papers, if you will, that you guys have assigned me. I'm so excited to get into this. I'm excited as well, JP. When you brought this idea up, I was jumping up and down.

I think Salli, T.C. and myself learned so much when we went over to Korea a couple years ago and checked out the BMW International. It was such a fun event, but I quickly realized that it's one of the few places, if not the only place that I've ever visited in my life, were golf culture has taken over culture. And it's very hard for people to understand how big golf is. in everyday Koreans life, when you are in downtown and Seoul, the billboards that are there are PXG and Titleist and Voki and Nellie Korda and Daniel Kang and Lydia Co. It just encapsulates everything about them.

And even though people might not be able to afford to go to a private club and play, you have screen golf, you have driving ranges. Just everywhere you look, golf has taken over. and I've always had this question of how this happened. I think we all know we're going to get to the queen of Korean golf through this story. But JP, man, I was, like I said, just super excited for you to take this one on because I know it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot.

There is so much lore and I, you know, we should just say her name already, say repok. I mean, she, you know, admittedly, I feel like I have. had a pretty surface level understanding of say repok and who she was and what she meant to golf. I knew she was a legend. I knew she was kind of considered the formal pioneer of Korean women's golf and why that nationality is so represented and so dominant on the LPGA. But I never really understood the full extent of her journey and what it took for her to be as successful as she was and kind of what her legacy means, because I think it's so much more than athletic greatness. It's a lot of national pride. It's kind of a cautionary tale in a way, too. There's a lot of

emotional complexities and well-being and just interesting dynamics that surrounded her. If we want to jump right into it, guys, I'm excited to take it from the top. We do. And just real quick to echoes Cody's point. I think I speak for myself and probably others when my basic understanding of Say Repok begins with the U.S. Open here in the United States, but I don't know anything about Sayri Pak and her journey up to that United States, right? And so, JP, that's to echo Cody. Like, I'm excited to learn more about it. So yeah, let's dig into it. Where are you taken us? Where are we starting? All right. So let's just start from the very beginning. We'll go before the 1998 U.S. Women's Open, even though that is kind of the turning point. We'll definitely

get into that. But Sayri Pak, I mean, just to introduce her, she's a five-time major champion. She's won, she won 39 times in her career. She would inspire, like we said, generations of women who would follow in her footsteps and inspire a nation that really needed it at the time, which I'll get into a little bit more. But let's get into Ceres, like, personal journey in golf. She was born in Dejohn, South Korea in 1977, a group in a pretty athletic family. Her father was a professional baseball player, and he was also a golfer himself. But she gets into track, becomes like a multi-sport athlete, and ultimately become,

her school's best golfer and then at some point she's so good that her family decides that they need to move to Seoul to elevate her training and take her to the next level so i'm just doing some math today say re if she was born in 77 what would that make her about 48 49 depending on her birthday so we're moving to soul we're moving to soul we're getting into some really interesting and I guess some would consider intense trading methods, if you will. She told a story, a few stories, actually, of various training methods that she'd engaged in as a teenager. One day, her father drops her off at the range in the morning.

He goes off to a business meeting. She's there after midnight. He allegedly forgets her, but she's still practicing. And this kind of sets the precedent for, like, her career and her future, like these, like, long days of just practice right there was this sort of the standard that she set very early on that the family really said that she would be practicing for 10 hours a day and that was totally normal her dad would also make her run up and down 15 flights of stairs to train when she was 16 there's a story that Michael Bamberger wrote about that her dad pitched a tent in a cemetery

near their house and over the course of three months as many times as like five times a week. Sometimes they'd even spend the night. She would practice her chip shots and bunker shots by a reservoir or bordering the cemetery, which is some foreshadowing, by the way, before we get into the U.S. Women's Open. Keep that in mind. I just want to say practicing 10 hours a day, I can't imagine, like,

I hate to practice at all. And so the idea of like going out for an hour a week, 10 hours a day, I'm just trying to imagine just the wear and tear. That is so impressive. I know. I, yeah, there's some of these, reading some of these, I'm like, I can't even fathom, but this was normalized. This was, this was Savory's life.

This is what she was working for. This was what she loved more than anything else and everything that her family had invested in. So they're going to the cemetery for a couple months, going through these really intense training methods. And besides her practicing her chips, at night, her dad starts to tell these really scary stories, scary stories he can think of. And the reason behind that is he wants to develop her mental fortitude. So she's out here getting not only like a little bit mentally traumatized, but also like physically just going through the ringer in his cemetery, which already gives me the hebi-deebies. but I can't think of,

I think that's the first time I've heard anyone doing something like that. I have not heard of anything like that. I mean, how apropos, too, with Halloween right around the corner. Yeah, that's a new level of mental toughness, I guess. Just the ability to keep composure under, like, the creepiest of conditions. That's an interesting one. And maybe there's a cultural aspect to this,

that we're not picking up on. And I say that because cemeteries for us are viewed a lot different than cemeteries for others. Cemetery for others are viewed as like, you know, a place where you actually go and visit shrines and it's a comforting feeling. So maybe we're just, you know, the American side of us are looking at it incorrectly. But it's a true, who knows? Very well put, Cody.

Yes. Indeed. By that point, she was 16. She'd kind of been proven already. she had a really good track record in amateur events. She had won her first event when she was 14. And keep in mind, she's kind of a late bloomer. That's around the time that she had started.

So very quickly, she's playing golf and she's already winning. She would actually go on to win more than 30 amateur events. And she's gaining some notoriety. People know who say Repok is in South Korea. There is a level of investment and there is a level of care. So before I get into what Sayri Park's professional career, the origins of that and where that begins, I kind of want to illustrate what golf in South Korea was like before Sayri comes around. Golf was perceived as kind of a luxury. There was a belief that only wealthy people

could participate in golf. And for a long time, Koreans kind of associated golf with corruption and greed. There was an interesting study I found that said, government officials with meager salaries could never afford to pay the fairway fees however they could play golf by receiving bribes so just a little bit insidious vibe going on with golf the first golf course is built in Korea in 1931

so they're a little slow to adopt it and throughout the 20th century it takes a little bit for more golf courses to be developed throughout the country the KLPGA which becomes important here in a second was founded in 1978. And kind of at that time, there was only an average of about one golf course being built

every year. There's no boom until the late 80s. And then the 90s, there's a little bit more. And so more and more people are picking up the game. But again, it's not, it doesn't touch baseball, right? It doesn't touch other sports that had really grabbed South Korean culture. Okay, so two things. Interesting.

the Korean LPGA essentially began right around the time Sayri Pak is born. That's, I guess, just noting that somewhat coincidence there. Did you come across any reason why they experienced that boom in the late 80s, early 90s, that kind of initial flourishing of more golf courses being built by chance? Not really. Maybe the only things I can attribute it to, or maybe just. just A, the economy, and B, there was one, like the true pioneer of Korean women's golf was Okieku, who was the first star in the KLP.

She would actually be the first Korean to win on the LPGA in 1988, but she never really did too much after that, didn't really touch what Sayre's legacy would ultimately become, but she'd kind of set the table for people like Kayri or Sayri in her country. So those are probably the only two things I could really attribute it. I honestly don't have the best answer for that. But there was, you know, there was rumblings. It was starting to become of interest, but it did not take off until Sayri comes around. So a quick search here just to answer my own question.

It looks like, at least according to this source, golf really through the 80s and 90s was still mostly the very wealthy and, you know, something that businessmen did. And then it seems like the Gulf boom was tied to South Korea's overall economy, a growing middle class with more disposable income and leisure time. And the two kind of grew together in that way, starting in the mid-90s. So it looks to be pretty economically driven. I'd also, yeah, I want to point out that Seoul hosted the Summer Olympics in the late 80s. I know following that, I think they noticed like what tourism could be. And they used to be very restrictive on foreign investment. in South Korea.

And I know post the Olympic Games, they relaxed a lot of foreign investment dollars that would come in because at the time, having a small economy at the time, this is prior to tech boom and everything else like that, that obviously is completely transformed their economy. They wanted to make sure that Korea stayed Korea. And Japan was already experiencing their own tourism boom,

primarily in a big golf boom as well, but they wanted to make sure that Korean roots still stayed, the same, where you started to have foreign investment coming, but also a lot of U.S. golf course designers starting to shop their way around late 80s and 90s as well. And there's nothing that means more. And you notice this for people who do a lot of world travel is that like the gem of the golf course in Korea for the longest time was the Jack Nicholas Golf Club, because name recognition goes a long, long way.

So I think it's interesting to look at golf boom, relaxing of tourism, restrictions, and investments, and just kind of seeing how everything slowly starts to pick up steam really until Sayre starts doing savory stuff. And I, sorry, Jordan, if you're going to get here, but just noting that the popularity of Screen Golf, I feel like was so much further ahead. in South Korea than what it is here in the States.

Like there was screen golf, it sounds like, in the late 90s, right? And just having that additional availability and giving people interested in the game certainly played some part as well. So yeah, sorry, George. Keep going here. Yeah, let's keep the economy in mind for a second because that has a massive tie-in into why an entire nation really grasps on to, savory i also found it like somewhat progressive and interesting that a female athlete kind of took a

entire country by storm in the 90s and it was it it kind of comes down to culture or at least what i read that they didn't want women in roles of business but they wanted them to be athletes and i found that so beyond fascinating it's almost like in some ways it's almost the reverse over here, you know, I was, that was probably one of the more fascinating things that I learned and that why Sayri was just so embraced. But let's get into Sayri and how she starts her professional career. She plays on the KLPGA. She wins six out of 14 events in 1996. So she's a professional winning rookie of the year. She's, she's Sayri Pak in South Korea. She is that girl. She signs a $10 million endorsement deal with Samsung, which has some interesting caveats that I'll touch on.

But by the way, that's $20 million today. But she signed a $10 million endorsement deal with Samsung to basically go embark on a career on the LPGA. Like they've told her, hey, you are international. Get out of here and go play with the big dogs. That's where things kind of take off. She moves to the United States. she starts working with David Ledbetter. Her goal basically in 1997 is to, I guess, develop her game and go play Q school and get her

LPGA tour card. So a massive reason Samsung invests in Sari is because of the financial problems that that South Korea starts to go through in 1997. So there is a 1997 financial crisis. across Asia and South Korea, Indonesia, and Thailand are the most affected. This starts in July 1997. This is around the time that Sayri is in the United States. But South Korea, to quote, saw slumping currencies, devalued stark markets and a precipitous rise in private debt. Their foreign debt to GDP ratios rose from 13 percent to as high as 40 percent. So they were going through it. I mean,

that it's a country that is just struggling and they are trying to find any sort of national pride or hope or optimism and they see it in Ceri and they saw it in Chanho Park as well the pitcher for the Dodgers he's the first South Korean born MLB player and they see it in him but Ceri's popularity and her legacy just ends up eclipsing him so it ends up being just say re at a certain point you know they're looking at that they're seeking some kind of hope they're seeking some kind of optimism and the way that say re was representing them on an international stage was overwhelmingly positive you know she just kept getting better and better and so in 1997 she does earn her tour card she joins the tour as a rookie in 1998 she was the only Korean player when she joins the

LPJ tour 1998. Shocker. I'm going to quote an article here where she talks about adjusting to tour life, loneliness, you know, just it's massively intimidating. So she says the first two or three months, I didn't go into the locker room. I tried to make some friends, but I didn't know how I was by myself in a different country with a different language, food, culture. It really wasn't easy at all. Samsung also sends these managers to kind of like, their role is sort of quasi babysitting slash micromanaging. It's weird. This is kind of, this is the caveat that I was referring to earlier in Sayre signing this deal. They are just watching her like a hawk and managing all of her time and making sure that Sayri is doing what she needs to do to be effectively the best

player in the world. And so one of these managers, he goes by Steven. He's a translator for her family. He's quoted as charting every shot she takes, wiping down chairs for her before she sits in them, assembling the family for group pictures that he takes. And he also answers questions about Sayre's personal life. So Sayre's not talking about herself. It means, Everything is being filtered through these managers. I mean, and it's, you've got to think to, in the context of being on the LPGA tour, I mean, how many people are surrounded by like clusters of managers? You just don't see that.

That's not normal, especially for a rookie. And so they even ask about, say, Re, her personal life that media will ask, you know, does she have a boyfriend? He goes, she doesn't have a boyfriend. she doesn't have time it's interesting she was kind of this vessel for national pride but also just like this benchmark of success there was so much stock and so much that she represented that they wanted to make sure nothing went wrong it feels there's a lot of like overlap with what people do with like child stars and all that like i'm seeing so much so many threads here

she is also having to contend with learning an entirely new language English as a second language to her she was starting to practice early on even before she was a rookie on the LPGA she's quoted as learning twice a week two hours per day but then after she got her card

she learned three times a day three hours per day there's so much going on in terms of adjusting to a brand new life in an entirely new country where you are kind of the sole hope right now for national pride,

not only national pride, but for your family. There's a lot of pressure on Sey to be as perfect as she can be. And it's not crushing yet, but it's eventually, it starts to weigh on her a lot. And I think someone on the tour noticed

I found this a little bit surprising I had no idea she was so close to this person there's a veteran who takes her under her wing

Nancy Lopez and I think a lot of that based on what I read had to do with how Nancy kind of saw herself in

Céri and how they both dealt with fame and representing an entire country

and introducing a sport to a country, if you will, and what success looks like and what representation looks like in an entirely different culture. I want to quote a couple things of what Nancy says. I think they're really interesting. Nancy says this was in 1998 when say he's a rookie. She says after three daughters, I have this motherly instinct. I feel almost like protecting her, although I don't feel I have a right to do that. This was quoted by Steve Jacobson.

He says, she can tell Pock how it was, how it was when she won nine tournaments, her first year of her Mexican-American heritage and of essentially bringing golf to people who had no golf. Yeah, God, that makes total sense. I had no idea that that close link between the two of them. That's really interesting. she eventually inducts her into the Hall of Fame they are like thick as thieves like they they could not be closer I mean good on Nancy that's that's really cool and something that

the LPGA tour continues to do they they have a mentor program where for rookies that are coming over and everything you're actually assigned somebody to help look after you but it's it's phenomenal and in j p i'm happy that you mentioned this side of it because i think it's it's easy for somebody like nancy to pick somebody up at the very beginning but that relationship can literally continues to this day they're still like very very close and they support each other's events and support each other's charities and everything else uh that they're doing you mentioned the managers or handlers or whatever that is so i always found it interesting that you know everybody i think jumps to say re coming over for cue school and a lot of people miss out on the fact that she

came over in 95 and played in the women's am and she ended up getting beat in the women's am in the semi-final round beat by keeney and kelly and her end up going to cue school the same year together you know a year and a half later now say re after being beat she goes back to korea but Continues to play as an amateur for a little bit, then turns professional and wins just buckets of KLPGA events. But it created this interesting rivalry that we've seen continue to this day. And that's not necessarily between Kelly and Sayree, but Kelly was mentored by Hank Haney.

And Sayree coming from the Ledbetter Academy. And you start to see early on these two instruction facets, start to grow and percolate and then you see generationally as they continue with with michel we coming on next on the led better side and haney you know kind of not looking away from l pga tour players but focusing primarily more on the pGA tour side and just kind of the interesting path that both instructors and kind of their you know all the junior instructors and everything underneath them but it's just fascinating to go back and look at it i would say I think a lot of people in Korea expected Sadri to win that women's am.

And when she went home, it was viewed as a disappointment. And a lot of things that she said was, I was prepared for my golf, but there was a lot of other things that went along with it that I wasn't prepared for. And that's where all the translators and people doing laundry and, like, they basically filled in all these little tiny gaps to ensure that she was going to be successful without realizing just how crazy pressure-filled this situation that they were actually making for her. You know, Cody, that stuff about Hank Haney also would put his subsequent infamous comments

that he made years and years later into a bit of a different way. Didn't want to say it, but yes. So let's set up for the 1998 U.S. Women's Open. Once again, not her first rodeo in a USGA event. She plays the 1997 U.S. Women's Open and finishes tied for 21st at Pumpkin Ridge. And it's a tremendous deal. People cared a lot, especially in Korea. So this investment in this care is only increasing.

And the pressure is only amounting for Say Reid to be successful. But before that comes another major, the McDonald's L.P. PGA Championship. May she rest in peace. She wins that major. That is Sayre's first official major championship victory. She wins wire to wire. This is in May of 1998, two months before she would play the 1998 U.S.

Women's Open. She wins the event by three shots, kind of takes the tour by storm. Everybody knows who Sayri Pak is now. She is the rookie of the year favorite going into this event. So going into U.S. Women's Open, like I said, folks are very aware of Sayri Pock now. And Jaime Diaz wrote something really interesting about Sayri and her fame. Quote, Pock is sometimes referred to as the Tiger Woods of Asia. She made herself clear, though, when asked about the comparisons to Woods, she said that she

admires Woods and knows that in addition to their golfing ability, photogenic smiles and high public profiles, they share an affinity for the video game Mortal Kombat, but that she seeks her own identity. Quote, I don't want to copy him in everything because I do my best, Pock said. Every time I hear Tiger Woods and me second, I want it me first, then later Tiger. I dig it. I also enjoy, you know, the cat was into the video games way back. The cat was very into the video games. but I had no clue, Sayri herself was either. So, Sayri Pak is front-page news in Korea, shocker. Korean journalists are following her every move in the United States.

I mean, they are going to her events. They are covering her extensively to the point she kind of ends up getting annoyed with them. Jaime spoke to some Korean journalists for that piece, and she had at this point had grown more popular than Chanho Park. and just she'd taken over. She was their girl at this point. And even before the 1998 U.S. women's open, she is the pride of South Korea.

And at this point, she's being considered of someone of pedigree internationally. I mean, people around everywhere are starting to respect her. They're starting to kind of predict that she could be in the conversation with Onika and Kari. And it's not just South Korea. everybody is interested to see what say repok is going to do and just to kind of give you an idea of the amount of like respect and interest that she was commanding just amongst her peers laura davies in january of 1998 saw that say re had 66 to one odds to win an event and she's like she apparently like booked it to get a bet in to the british bookmakers, which is crazy.

Could not happen today, but shout out Laura. I was going to say a different time. Laura, Laura's got a good eye. Yeah, she knows what's up. She knows what's up. Hollis Stacy, who'd won three U.S. Women's Open, called, say, Repok Superbaby. And Nancy, also just continuing to advocate for her mentee was just, she played actually in the McDonald's LPJ championship.

with Sayre when she won, she was playing her first two rounds with Sayre. But she goes and she tells journalists that Sayri has it all and that it would be great for women's golf if she had won the McDonald's LPGA, which she would ultimately do. Let's get into 1998 U.S. Women's Open. The actual event.

Sayre is hanging around the entire championship. Shoots a 69 in the first round to tie. for third and then afterwards she just kind of takes over shoot 69 to lead after the first two rounds goes into the weekend 70 75 big I think this event would have passed the PTI the proper test index because the scores were very high um this is probably a tough ass weekend we started a little you know I won't say easy on Thursday, Friday, but once it got to the weekend, it was diabolical. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Probably, I think this could easily go down. It's probably one of the greatest U.S. women's opens to ever be played. If I didn't stamp that in our U.S. Women's Open Deep Dive, I'm doing so now, especially given the additional research I've conducted. Ceri, like I said, was the Rookie of the Year favorite. So it's no surprise that she has taken over this event in the way she does. does. But there's an amateur from Duke University, Jenny Shishira Porn. She's a standout golfer. She ends up winning a national championship with Duke during her college career. She's, she's great. She has,

there's merit to this girl, but she's still a 20 year old amateur. And folks, Ceri Pock is also 20 years old. But they are just in two completely different places. These are two different games being played. And that was a very dominant headline at the time. Like this was a story so many people were writing was that, oh my gosh, two 20-year-olds could, one of two 20-year-olds could win a U.S. Women's Open this weekend. I mean, people were all over it. Which doesn't seem crazy now, but at the time, I mean, not to spoil,

but whoever won was going to be the youngest to ever win a U.S. Women's Open. So this was uncharted territory for one person, let alone having two, battling it out. So a little bit of a play-by-play is kind of important here. It's super dramatic, but basically, Sayre is leading through the final round. Jenny's a little bit behind. Then Sayri Bogies the 17th, and here's the roars from Jenny up ahead. at the 18th, Jenny makes a 45-footer for Bertie, and it ties her for the lead. And so the pressure's on, say, re to close this out and to get this done.

And she's kind of struggling with her putter a lot throughout this week. And just generally not, generally, kind of the Achilles heel of the week is her putter. So she ends up missing her 10-footer on the 18th. And they're both tied at plus six, which was the highest, quote, unquote, winning score at the U.S. Women's Open since 1984. So at the time, as we covered in our U.S. Women's Open deep dive, they were playing 18 whole playoffs. That was the thing. That's what we were doing. We used to be a proper country.

Would we used to be a proper country. And I also found this really interesting. you had to pay, I think it was $10 or $11 to go to the 18-hole playoff that Monday. So they were trying to also like, you know, make a little bit of money off the drama, if you will. There was no, there was no free golf and playoff golf. It was, no, your ticket is not good. We're going to readmit you with a price. But you wonder what they were charging the volunteers to come back Monday.

True. It's a great point, big. Probably. Nicolidiming everything. So, playoff starts. It is also fairly dramatic, spoiler alert. Jenny chips in for Bertie from 30 feet on the first hole and leads by four going into the sixth hole until she pulls her nine iron into the water. Another spoiler alert, water is very relevant to the way

the events of this. playoff unfold but jenny pulls her nine iron on the sixth into the water and she triples say re's only two back by the time they reached the 11th and then she birdies the next three out of her four holes to lead and then bogies the 15th to fall back into a tie once again kind of coming down to the wire they're tied through 18 and then say re almost gives it away completely jenny hits her T-shot. She's in the fairway. And then Sayri pulls her T-shot into the water right on the bank. And this is the famous moment that everybody knows from this event. There's literally a statue in South Korea of Sayri-Pak hitting this shot. She and her caddy walk over to her ball. They're having

this debate for like a good, gosh, they take a while. They take probably like two to three minutes to talk it over whether she's going to hit it or take a drop her caddy's very insistent that she hits it he gives her the option to do what she wants but he seems to be really partial to her just doing it there's no guarantee of what jenny will do who knows if she'll par this who knows it like you this is it there's no time to be conservative we're not giving up shots you just got to do this. So Cary starts to take her shoes and socks off and the crowd is getting louder. They are amped up. They are cheering her on, which is awesome that they're by the way, there was such a significant showing for this Monday playoff. Like think of how many people had to like change their

plans or do whatever to like come watch this happen. Like that was that was fascinating to see. So this crowd is getting amped up. They're so excited. And she goes ankle deep. Hacks her ball across the fairway into the right rough she's still about 140 out hits her eight iron to 20 feet but jenny then bogies because her chip her hands are shaking too much before she chips and they are tied once again they've got to take it to sudden death there are real shades between sorry to interrupt there are real similarities between this playoff and what i feel like we would see with Tiger Woods and Rocco. A decade later at Tori.

Obviously, Sayri wasn't the Hall of Famer yet, but she would become one. And yeah, anyway, I'm just thinking of that, JP, keep going.

No, I appreciate you pointing that out. So it's on death. It ends relatively quickly after that. They both part of the first hole. Sayre birdies the second. Holes an 18-footer, finally.

She's putting well. But holes an 18-footer. It's her longest part of the day, and she's done. She wins the 1998 U.S. Women's Open. This is the biggest victory in her career so far, which already feels like a very storied history, but she does it. She admits after she wins that it's the first time she's ever cried. I was so shocked by that.

How did you not cry when your dad was making you sleep in the cemetery? but cries for the first time after she wins the 1988 U.S. Women's Open, not a bad choice. I mean, the first time I practiced 10 hours a day, I would be sobbing. Apparently, this is when she chose to cry. But like I said, not a bad choice. Just a curious admission.

But Nancy is so overchoid, just so happy for her mentee. And I think what she says here is really important. She says, what's happening now definitely reminds me of what was happening to me 20 years ago. When she won the U.S. Open, I was crying with her. The little amateur played great, but I was rooting for Cary, my fellow professional. So love that. A true girl's girl here. I think that's, that was awesome. She was quoted as celebrating, which was pretty unusual. Quoted as a foreign concept to Pock, but she's in America now. So she

has Chinese takeout from the same place that she's been eating from all week, orders of fruit platter for room service, and for several hours is dealing with many, many visitors to her hotel room, her parents, the Samsung executives, surprise, surprise, and the Korean journalists who are covering every single move. And she spends her evening in between all this, watching TV, experimenting with putters. like the grind does not stop and playing with her dog happy she has a beagle named uh happy which is an interesting uh name as we'll uh we'll see later well good for her yeah sounds like a sounds like a nice week a nice week indeed but then things kind of take uh they take a really

interesting turn later in that year but uh in that july she would end up winning two more events but then she kind of starts to drop off a little bit doesn't start to play as well she kind of falls off her practice routine isn't as devoted to her exercise routine she sneaks off and takes a lesson with butch harmon before uh david bledbetter quits on her just what's happening right now we don't know what's going on let's say re her demeanor's changing she's not as bubbled she's a little more withdrawn once the cameras are off and once like the spotlight's gone she's just she's not who we she's not who we thought

Say Repak was and in December of 1998 David Ledbetter was quoting Sayre's being pulled in so many directions and is so unhappy that she's doing some irrational things he says I worry about her

when we spoke on the phone And the last thing I told her was get some rest, clear her head, and get your life in order, dear girl. Some context into her possible burnout, being micromanaged, et cetera. Her managers were, they were also spies. They would travel with her and report her activities to their corporate superiors and her family, which would make her really, really upset, allegedly. she goes home actually that October of 1998 and comes down with a viral infection

and was actually hospitalized and an LPGA official was told that the biggest concern among the quote unquote Samsung minions who filled her hospital room was whether she would be able to play the next day that was reported by Jaime Diaz which is just

you know and let me lend you some additional insight into once again how these managers viewed her if you don't think it's already inhumane enough one of them was quoted saying she's the best export item of korea in the last 50 years Hyundai has the big name but doesn't make money what you call her bottom line is bigger yeah i mean it's it's gross i don't not really sure what other words, I mean, a lot of other words I guess you could use, but for her to suffer burnout and everything that she gets into, like, it's the most human reaction in the world to all this. Yeah, it was pretty disgusting. And, you know, once again, those are the voices surrounding you. She doesn't have really a life outside of this career. She doesn't have

friends she doesn't you know she wasn't dating actually in this period of time she ends up starting to date because she's just kind of had enough which i found was interesting and i i you would you would think normally when you hear these stories of people being hot housed and kind of just burning out through such intense athletic careers or any similar careers that behavior like tends to come after like a pretty long stretch of their career. This actually happened pretty quickly for Sayri, which I think was the most surprising part to me. Yeah, but I guess knowing, you know, the time and for years and years,

it wasn't just this handler situation, but just the time, the dedication, the singular focus with the game of golf, you know, it must have been compounding this whole time. during very formative years yeah like time that you are really growing into your own and forming some kind of identity and really series only identity was golf and not just for herself and her family i mean there were so many there were their greater stakes involved so we get into 99 she doesn't win another event until midway through the year june 1999 she gives her dad the trophy for Father's Day. She would end up winning four times in total that season. She's still a pretty dominant force on the LPGA.

She goes on to win three more majors and hangs around among the best of them. But by the time we get into the mid-2000, she kind of slows down a little bit. And the wins aren't coming as often as they were. once before. She almost won a grand slam, though, in 2007. She almost won what's now, what was the craft Nabisco, what's now the Chevron. She came close leading the final round, but ultimately collapsed. But not all was lost. She was able to qualify for the Hall of Fame during her career and was still inducted as an active player. And at the time, was the youngest to ever be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

The youngest at the time was Kari Webb. Very interesting link there as well. Yeah. I mean, the U.S. Women's Open would remain kind of the highlight of her golfing career, though. I think it's safe to say, right? I'd agree with that. Yeah, nothing that she would go on to win would match just what that moment was. I mean, five majors in total is crazy, but I think just the significance of that and the boom and that aftershock that we still feel today, it's crazy.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't mean to diminish what she would go on to do. I'm just kind of thinking like that U.S. Women's Open was, that's still the first thing you think of, at least I do when Sayri Pock's name is men. mention. So, as I had mentioned, the winds kind of drop off slowly through the early 2000s. Ends up getting a finger injury in 2005. She misses her first cut in a major in 29 starts. This was actually at the McDonald's LPGA championship. She's just really down on herself and really vulnerable about it, which I thought was interesting. So no longer is it really in observation or is it, you know, gleaned from secondhand sources.

Like, Sary herself is admitting that she is struggling. And she's quoted saying, I've been a little bit unhappy about everything. My game, I'm not really enjoying it at all, and I'm not doing anything with my ability. I know what I need, which is a much better balance, but I'm always putting a lot of pressure on myself. And even though after 2005, she'd still win another major at that point, you know, she was no longer the say repok we had come to know and be, you know, intimidated by and just revere and in awe of. She talks more about this in 2016, which was when she had officially retired, she once again is. vulnerable with reporters, she says, I don't think I've been a happy person ever. After winning a tournament, the moment that I'm holding the trophy, I'm so happy because that's

just the way I want it. And then back at the hotel, I feel lonely. Again, lots of themes of loneliness throughout this. I mean, it, you know, just say Ree obviously really loved community and relying on it, which is an interesting juxtaposition because she has an entire world of support in South Korea and the respect of an entire country. And they hold her to this, you know, incredible standard. It's different than true community that she feels. You know, those people look at her as something else other than the real say repok. So she ends up doubling down on this sentiment a little bit a few years later after she was in 2018. She says, people think I was such a great success at such a young age.

I don't think I've ever been a happy person ever. Again, she says, I'm always thinking about golf. A week from this week, I've lost it all of a sudden. At that point, I know I'm going to panic. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm really fighting myself to get back to being a top player. But I can't do that anymore. The answer is I'm not happy.

So she's not happy. The only people that are really happy around her are the ones that are benefiting clearly off of her success. But I know that there is a flip side of this and that the people that were extremely motivated by her success did learn from her struggles.

And I wonder, like the influence that she had on the next generation of Korean professionals coming up what they thought or or you know kind of what they did with that it was pretty profound the influence that she would ultimately have and we talk about it all the time you know say re obviously being the pioneer of south korean women's golf and who came from that those people were referred to as the the the say re kids uh and they are kind of grouped into the like these like interesting generations of players. And there's a couple notable examples here that I'll go through.

NB. Park being the biggest of all of them, of people being just directly influenced by Sayre Park, watching her in real time. You know, NB says, after Sayri won, it was on TV every day. They made advertisements of her hitting it out of the water. I watched it a lot of times and I said to my parents, I can do that. How much more could you ask for for a direct inspiration? NB. Bark would be considered the most successful of all of Sary's direct kids. She would win seven majors in total three consecutive times in 2013, if you remember that generational stretch. So, and it's not just NB, but NB is like the top dog of all of the direct Sary kids. It's kind of interesting if you look at all of the people, especially generationally. Some of them say,

I watched say rewrite when that happened like NB and then some of them kind of hear her through legacy. It's it echoes how people view Tiger Woods and his legacy. You know, like for example, someone my age, I did, I was, you know, a kid and there's players my age and men younger. So I'm 28 and there's people, you know, in their early 20s, we don't, there's with no real memory or profound memory, at least, of watching Tiger Woods. I mean, and there's people who were born, gosh, I mean, in the mid-2000s who are playing profound, significant professional golf right now. They have no clue, right? And so this is kind of the same, this is analogous to Sayri and her legacy. They're really only hearing it through the legends and how revered she was.

And, you know, the 1998 U.S. Women's Open. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. You know, it's, she's kind of larger than life in South Korea. She's become that in some ways to people now, to young people now, a mythical figure. If you look at the direct descent of NB, literally living the tour of life, with Sayre and being able to talk to her. It's not, you know, M.B is, is never going to be as well known as Sayre is,

even though that she has more major championships than her. It's because Sayre did it first. But M.B picked up, I think, one of the most important things that Sayre could never do. And that's have a balance in her life. And M.B. was able to go out and have great success and turn it off on her terms and have a balance and be able to go be uber competitive, but have relationships, have friendships, and then at the end of the day,

be a mother when she wanted to be a mother. And she learned that from Sayri because she was never able to have it on her terms. Sayri says at the end of her career, she was saying she wanted to help people. She wanted to help people not just be good golfers, but she wanted to help people be complete people because like you said,

that identity was totally, robbed from her. She just didn't have that opportunity. The people say re-influenced. We mentioned NB Park obviously ended up with more majors, but Sayri Park still among South Koreans specifically and really anybody from Asia still has the most LPGA tour victories with 25. NB has 21 total. and then the next closest South Korean is Jin Yongko, currently at 15. You know, it's also crazy to think about. Sayri comes over, obviously had a good mentor that played in the LPGA tour before her in the 80s and 90s. But really, it was her and like, you know, one or two other Korean women playing full time on the LPGA tour.

if you just think about it now since her first major championship there's been 12 other Korean women that have won majors they have amassed 22 major championships and it's just incredible and a lot of those are historical names that still you know because of past major championships or anything still holds status but the explosion that is happening and then we see the trickle down of other Asian countries as well when you know with this explosion this year from Japan from Thailand you know all over the place and it really you can almost go back to every single one of them look at this little girl from Korea and say wait a second we can do that exact same thing like I said you did not have to be of South Korean descent to be inspired

by Sayri Pak or recognized what she had done. Stacey Lewis said something pretty interesting years back when Sayri, I think, believe was still playing. She said, without the Korean and Asian TV rights, this tour four or five years ago might not be here anymore. We were at a point where we had 23 events and I think half of those were in Asia. So the Asia market basically supported us there for a couple of years

and allowed us to get to where we are now. Sayre's a huge part of that. You know, and why Stacey says that is that hopefully people understand that at any point in time during that phase of the LPGA tour, Sayree could have just picked up her ball and went home. And it's interesting that throughout that at the same exact time, you had an LPGA tour that was making ridiculous threats of, I remember the phase of speak English or you're not, you're no longer playing. And I don't know, Jordan, if you found any of that because that was like directly pointed at Sayri, Mb, and the next generation of Korean women coming up. It's interesting that you mentioned that because there were people

that were genuinely intimidated and not happy with how many South Koreans were beginning to find success on the LPGA tour. They had referred to it as, and not my words, these are, other people's words, quote unquote, the Asian invasion. I'm going to start with this quote from Jan Stevenson to kind of highlight what the sentiment was at the time. She said to Bob Herrick in 2003, this is probably going to get me in trouble, but the Asians are killing our tour. Their lack of emotion, their refusal to speak English when they can speak English. They rarely speak. We have two-day proams where people are paying a lot of money to play with us.

and they say hello and goodbye. Our tour is predominantly international and the majority of them are Asian. They've taken it over, end quote. A few years later, in 2009, they are told by the LPGA commissioner, Carolyn Bivens, that all players who have been on the tour

for two years must pass an oral evaluation of their English skills or face a membership suspension. this was a proposed rule this never went into effect there was a lot of backlash that emerged when this news broke out people were obviously you know it was very xenophobic and it was yes like you said cody a directly aimed at say re mb and their peers and interestingly say re she didn't entirely disagree with it she actually said she she thought you know instead of suspending players who don't pass the um the oral evaluation she said maybe fines would be better she said we agree we should speak some english we play so good overall but when you win you should give your speech in English.

So I found that pretty interesting. I mean, obviously, you do want to encourage them to learn the language just because of the benefits to the audience, the fans, the pro-am partners, like I get it. But also the imposing of penalties if they, yeah, that's, hmm, that Jan Stevenson quote is wild. I mean, I can't imagine, you know, somebody caught me off guard. I'm saying that today. Yeah.

Well, it also, I think it's one of those things where if you, if you, giving somebody all benefits of the doubt that you can see what they're trying to get to. Now, what an asinine way to get there. And almost

impossible to look at that and be like, yeah, man, like, maybe you should play better really okay it's it's it's hard not to look past that side of it but the l pGA tour does it you know i don't know where they're at with the with the fines or anything else but they enact they made tutors available they create an entire program uh around it that they've seen incredible benefits from i mean i think of all the players that we've had the opportunity to be around big and you would be like it always

surprises me how well their English is when it's something that you would you never expect. Well, and I think too, you know, kind of bringing things to the present a little bit. The influx of all this talent from Korea and Asia more broadly, like the LPGA tour is a global tour, right? We've heard the commissioners of the LPGA speak to that. And I think the new commissioner, Craig Kessler, one of his big goals is we need to identify our star players and market them in the markets around the globe where we can really make them superstars, right? And so I think the LPGA tour some, what, 15 years on from this policy, is finally, hopefully in a place where, you know, better able to embrace the global nature of the tour and to recognize, hey, we have Korean players. Let's market the shit out of them in Korea and Asia, right? And looking at it as

truly an asset, a benefit. Yes, this is a positive, right, shifting their mindset from being like, oh, no, you know, we're, we're too international to like, exactly. This is an asset that our tour has. Nothing describes the issues that golf as a whole, then like that without realizing the benefit that is sitting directly underneath your nose and viewing it as a negative. And you can take almost anything that happens in golf at any level and you can flip it on its head and you can find the positive in anything, all right? But it takes people that are not narrow-minded, that are not looking out for their own benefit and to do that. And that takes time. That takes growth. It takes a lot of painful lessons

learned that, you know, the LPGA tour still sees to this day. We still see it to responses to our own podcasts that we put out about it. We see it on every single social media clip or anything else of asking who is this and immediately turning it off because of somebody's name. without giving a second to try to understand and go an ounce deeper on that person. And I would say, you know, we've talked about many times, too, over the last couple years with Nellie Cordes specifically is because of the way the LPGA tour has gone and how international it is, it's like as an American, we're searching for that American superstar, right?

Like, we want somebody that we can put up on these pedestals next to the MB parks in the in the say repox right and i i think that's it's somewhat frustrating maybe that we don't have that and and that we haven't necessarily had that but it also is something that's kind of fun with with following the opGA tour right is okay who could that be who's next so yeah it's i think it's when you say just shift a perspective and and turning what might be viewed as a problem and recognizing it as actually, you know, it gives you a competitive advantage here, here, and here.

That's a good thing. So, yeah, JP, awesome information. Anything else that you need to empty the chamber of before we wrap here? No, I think I'll just piggyback a little bit off what you guys were saying. I think with how global this game is, and it feels just so, you know, narrowing to think that like someone's source of inspiration could not exist in a country

outside their own right and i think say re on a global scale like i was saying she's earned her flowers from her peers and earned her flowers from you know south Koreans who would come after come or come after her but who's to say that you could not be inspired by say re and And the things that she's done, but learned as well as a golfer and as a human being. And she is just so impressive, top down. I was really inspired. And I think it was a fun way to really embrace South Korean culture and just how devoted they are to hard work and family and how much those things truly mean to them and what

national pride means and what representing your country in a place that you are vastly underrepresented means and how difficult that is and the pressures of corporate interest and the pressures of, you know, trying to sustain the happiness of not only you, but tens of millions of people watching you thousands of miles away. I think, say, re. Now, you. Now, you. know, with time, she's a little underappreciated on a grand scale because what she did was just so remarkable in so many nuanced ways. And it wasn't just golf. It was so much bigger than that. And yeah, I hope everybody can take a little bit of inspiration from Savory because I know I can. Like I said, I just have such a new appreciation for her as a person and her career.

and I once again come away, very thrilled to have been assigned such an interesting topic. Well, thank you for doing the work. Thank you for sharing. These continue to be great lessons for myself. I know I speak for Cody as well. And we thank you, JP. We thank everybody listening, watching. And that will do it for this week's No Laying Up podcast.

We will see everybody next week. Cheers. Cheers.