No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1084: The Wild Life of Joey Ferrari

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

DJ and Tron recently sat down with Joey Ferrari, a truly unique character in golf with a life story that defies belief on numerous levels.  From his decorated amateur career - capped by qualifying for the 1994 US Open - to a ten year prison sentence for selling cocaine and methamphetamines, we’re incredibly thankful to Joey for his openness and willingness to tell his story without reservation.   Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support our Sponsors: Rhoback The Stack If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. I mean, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Noling Up podcast.

My name is DJ. We have got a good one for you today. Our episode today is an interview with Joey Ferrari and two things before we get started. Number one, who is Joey Ferrari? Great question. Earlier this year, during our Oakmont research, you might remember we came across a couple fun stories around the U.S. Open from the previous times that Oakmont had hosted a U.S. Open. and one of them was this guy, Joey Ferrari, a name that is always going to catch your eye.

He was an amateur that qualified in 1994, had this larger-than-life persona about him. The story that really caught my eye that I remember telling on the pod was that he was going to have a camcorder with him. And as he walked up the 18th hole at Oakmont during the U.S. Open, he was going to film a commercial for his pizza shop. Absolutely loved that story. That was great. But then I just kept reading, and there was a lot more, a lot. lot more to Joey's story than just playing in the U.S. Open, which I think we alluded to when we mentioned it on the podcast, and as tends to happen from time to time, when we mentioned the story

on the podcast, immediately a bunch of people from Northern California reached out, said, hey, I used to play golf with Joey. Hey, I still play golf with Joey. Let me put you in touch with him. There's a lot more to the story. And kudos to Tron, who connected with all these people, stayed in touch and figured out a good time when we could actually get together in person with Joey and chat. Tron's always great at finding characters like this, keeping in touch with them and figuring out stuff that goes well beyond the normal interview.

So a massive thank you to him for making this one happen and doing the interview alongside me. And I don't want to give a ton of it away, but after that US Open, things kind of spiraled out of control for Joey into this. I don't really know how to describe it, almost like a Walter White Breaking Bad type of existence. And when Tron and I were in California,

earlier this year for the Walker Cup. We built it an extra day to go sit with him in Stockton and hear the whole story. It is a hell of a story. There's a lot of drugs involved. There is a lot of time in prison involved. It's a movie script. I walked away pretty dumbfounded by the whole thing, both the story itself and also just his willingness to be open and unashamed about

the whole thing and talk about the lessons he'd learned and talk about the many, many, many things he would have done differently. And also along the whole thing is weaved in all of this golf touch points. You just don't get a lot of chance to, you know, talk to somebody who both is walking down the fairway asking, you know, Jay Siegel, all of these questions about game management. And then also can tell you, like, the hierarchy of the different gangs and different prisons. I mean, it's just a, it is a wild, surreal, fascinating chat. And I cannot thank him enough for doing it.

The second thing I want to talk about is the audio quality on this interview. Toronto and I were traveling with a different audio kit than we usually use at home. And we rigged everything up. We had our whole setup dialed, which you can see in the video version of this podcast on YouTube. And I still, to this day, I have no idea what I got wrong in the setup. I have done this lots and lots and lots of times. And I do not know what I did wrong on this day. But long story short, the audio did not record through our mixing board and the very nice

microphones that we had in front of our faces. Instead, it recorded through the horrible tiny little speaker on my laptop, which was sitting on the other side of the room. This was absolutely horrifying to discover because this guy, Joey, had just laid out his entire painful, complicated life story. And I wasn't sure how we were going to break it to him that I had messed up the recording. However, after breaking out a lot of magical bells and whistles that I still do not understand. Our genius sound mixer, Charlie Van Kirk, was able to fix it to a point where it is publishable. It's not going to sound perfect, but I think it's worlds better than A, trying to re-record the same thing and capture the same type of spirit over Zoom, which I don't think is

possible, or B, not publishing it at all, which I think would have been a travesty as well. So just to give you a sense of what I'm talking about, here's what the original recording sounded like. PGA Tour had their own qualifying site. And here's what the edited version sounds like. The PGA Tour had their own qualifying site. Again, shocking. I have no idea how you got to that point, but kudos to Charlie. Thank you very, very, very much.

But there's going to be some blips and weirdness, and it's going to sound a little processed and glitchy in some spots throughout, especially when there's cross talk or laughing or two people speaking at the same time. But that's the background on why it sounds the way it does. You're going to get over it in three minutes of listening to it, I promise. But there you go. Hand up, totally, completely. My fault won't happen again.

And a massive, massive thank you to Charlie for the help in getting this thing to where it is. So a lot of preamble, a lot of explanation. But without further ado, let's get into it. Here is me and Tron talking at long last to our guy, Joey Ferrari. All right. We're sitting here with Joey Ferrari. Some people might remember that name from US Open Week. We talked about you with Oakmont.

Let me set the stage for anybody who doesn't remember. I was doing some research for Oakmont, U.S. Up and Preview, and I was looking like 94, what was going on? You know, everybody remembers the winner and what happened? But what were some other fun storylines that came across? The name of this guy, here's you tell me what's right and what's wrong. A guy from California named Joey Ferrari who owned a bunch of pizza shops and his wife had a camcorder on the 18 poll to film a commercial from his pizza

the shops. I was like, oh, that sounds like an interesting character. And the more I kept digging, the more interested I got. And then eventually our paths crossed, and here we are sitting in Stockton, ready to hear the rest of the story. So is that a fair intro? Yeah, very fair intro,

I think. Sure. Well, let's start with, let's start with Ovema. How did you get there in the first place in 94? What was the Pact qualifying? And what would you say sticks out to you most about that week? Well, the qualifying, it goes back to the year before when I lost in the finals of the mid-amid. And so I lost on the last hole to have been named Jeff Thomas.

And so that gave me the, I could pass the first stage of qualifying, you know, which is the hardest part because you get local qualifying. You go down, like say here in California, 100 players for like two spots. And every year I would see that, and I made, you know, to the local four or five times, and it just was brutal. And this year, since I went to the finals, I got to bypass the local qualifying, and I could choose to go anywhere in the country. So every year I would see that the PGA tour had their own qualifying site the day after their tournament. And it was back in congressional. I don't know what, I don't recall what the tournament was, but the next day, every year they had like 130 players for like 15 spots, 18 spots. So I thought, you know, it's just a numbers game, really.

I mean, you know, better chances. So I chose to go back and play with the PGA tour. And sure enough, I played really well. You know, I shop like 68, 67, and finish like sixth. You know, so that got me into the open. And it was like, you know, I felt like, hey, I could play with these guys because, you know, you're playing with the PGA tour. But I'll never forget when I went to the open.

I'll never forget this. It's embedded in my brain. It's that first day when I went out on the practice range. And I'm walking down the line and you see like Nick Felder, Nick Price, you know, Tom Watson. Jose Marie Oathopal, I mean, and you're just seeing these lasers just shooting down the fair, you know, I thought, this is a whole different level. You saw White, at least I saw why she the same names at the top in these tournaments, because there's a different level. I mean, the PJ, these guys are great play, no doubt.

And I played with them, and I walked away thinking, yeah, I can play with them. But when I got to the open, it's just different, you know. And that's what I really recall that sticks out my mind the most, you know, how good these guys are. And they're good. They really are. You guys in the open on that Monday coming in off of, were you playing the best golf here? I was playing, yeah, really good golf.

I mean, I just let, I play with Sunny Hanna that, like two weeks before. I think I finished top five. You know, I lost in the files of the mid-ameter. I lost in the finals of the California State Amateur. I lost in the funnels of the NorCal Amateur. I went... Tommy Police, well, you're just... Yeah, I was just right coming at second and second and send in,

but I won it back in New York, the J.O. Wille. Okay. I went there with a guy named Danny Green. And I don't know if he... I don't know if he is. I don't know if I do. Yeah, he's a character. He lost in the finals that year in the U.S. AM to a guy named John Harris.

Yeah. So, and I play with John when I, at a couple times. But I play with him in the year when I lost in the finals at Eugene. I played with them in the qualifying. You know, I beat up. And so, anyway, back to the Oakmont. That's what sticks out. I think the money, of course, the story with Nicholas and Paul.

Yeah, so tell that story. So when I got there, the U.S. GA, obviously I was playing really, really good golf. So I never forget they came up to me, and they said, you know, Joy, you make the cup and you're on a water cup team, you know, pretty much. You're going to play in the water cup. That's enough pressure in itself, you know what I mean? Because 95's like with Tiger.

Yeah, yeah, it was, yeah. It was, yeah. But it was at least some, you know, worries, because anyway, so when I get to, you go in and you sign up for practice routes. You know, you go in and you start signing the sheets. What do you want to play? And I think Monday I signed up to play with Nick Falbo. And Tuesday, I chose Fuzzy Zeller and John Daly. And in Wednesday, when I would sign up, it says, Joey Ferrar.

I said, Jack Napis, Arnold Palmer. They go away federal. They had a question mark. Yeah. Oh, so they hadn't already picked it for me. They're the ones that paired me with that. They said, and they told me before they said, we got surprised for you, you know, the USGA. So I'm thinking, you're not enough pressure at the locker.

No, yeah, yeah. And if I'm drawing in conclusions, also, I mean, this is Arm of Palmer's last U.S. Open. This is in his home state, this is, you know, Adop Ma. It's 30 years later, wait, Nicholas and them had the duel. The duel. So, you know, they allow. 25,000 people for the partnership and 20,000 of them find the first hold on that Wednesday and and so I was cool all week out you know saying this is somebody

flying you know I mean I was really trip I was looking forward to it until the day of when I was up on the tea and unbeknownst to me Rocco Mediate and Lee Jansen were trying to work their way in to play and the group. You know, they didn't know that the U.S. UAE had signed the up to play with them. Well, just before they went off, Tom Watson had went off, as a scene as a scene. So they were up on the tea,

and now, you know, Rock was trying to sort of work his way in. And I was cool until when Nicholas and Palmer walked up on the tea, it was like, like Jesus Christ and God, came up. I mean, it was so overwhelming to me. I've been in some big tournaments, but like this was like nothing I'd ever felt. I mean, literally, my late were shaking. I got a shot of adrenaline like that I've never had in my life, you know? Your mind's racing. It's just going crazy. And so I think Nicholas hit her and Palmer wearing a jablicks of me. He says, okay, well, Joey, go ahead. He hits. And I looked down this tunnel, like, and I thought, shit, I'm going to kill somebody.

I mean, I didn't have one positive thoughts coping my head. And signing up for those other practice rounds, I don't get the sense that you were lackey culprit. I was something I didn't expect. I mean, it was, you know, all of a sudden, the reality hit me, you know. And I thought, I might with it? I mean, I didn't have one thought. I looked around, I put around Jack, and I thought, I said, no, Jack. That's okay.

I said, I'm going to pick up my ball. And I'm going to play with Tom. And I did. I picked up my ball, and I went to play with Tom watch that. So I didn't have to worry about war off, but they could have fun. You know what exactly? So when I went, yeah, he goes, he looks like, what happened? And I said, you know, Tom, I couldn't do it.

I said, I said, it was crazy. I never, and he laughed. You know, he laughed. He laughed. He knew. And then you settled in. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, we're on the T because it's a fraction. So, you know, basically got, you're there with them throughout, you know, the round.

But the initial shock was just crazy. It really was. Well, the other thing I want to ask about promote my, I fetched it up front because that was the other little bullet point that stuck out was the camcorder. Yeah. The camcorder thing. So you had a bunch of pizza shops and a video game company, a toy company. It will get into all this stuff in here.

but I read this note like, oh, this guy filmed a commercial for his pizza shop as he's walking up 18. I was like, that's the coolest thing ever, and I'm looking for the footage, and I can't find it. Yeah. Why could I not find the footage?

Because my wife, at the time, my father bought us a camporder. The body of her campus, you know, filmed the whole experience to it. So my wife had everything backwards. So when she thought she was filming, she turned it off. and when she turned on it, she would hit on,

and so you would see the ground. You know, the camera's swinging, you see the ground, and you see it lift up, and then it would go off. So all week, all week, none of it was filmed. Nothing. And I mean, it was like, you can't hear upset. I mean, you know, but it was just like the one, when did you figure it up?

Well, I was sitting down after I got home, and you wanted to watch the, video, you know, all the experience that players you're playing with and the whole bit, and nothing. Not a damn thing. That's almost a putty your story. I don't know. Yeah, right,

that's a keeper. Yeah. Well, I mentioned, I kind of alluded to read a story. You're working out a book right now. I got to say you're very gracious to share, kind of first draft manuscript, so kind of a life story memoir, and it's very interesting life

story, which I would love to get into. But I'm trying to think where we should start. I think we'd go kind of back to the beginning, a little bit of upbringing stuff, but talk about how you came up, who raised you, and also how you died in the Gulf is kind of that same story, right? Sure. So born and raised her in Stockton,

and then, you know, I lost my mother. As you know, it was in the book at a young age, five, our house caught on fire. And fortunately, I was home. You know, my mother passed. And so I was raised by my grandma. Old school of Kayan lady, very strict. And she used to golf with the women's nine-hole group, you know.

And so when I was about 10, I guess she took me out one time to the caddy for her, you know, pull the cart. And so somewhere in the round, she asked me if I liked to hit the golf ball. And so I said, yeah, I should art went on. Don't forget, I teed it up in the middle of the fairway. The driver was probably almost as tall as I was at the time. you know, because I was only a hand. And I never, I read it right down in it.

And that was it. I got up, you know, I can still visualize that whole scene. And that's how I got started. And so then my father had a liquor store in town, and he had an old Oriental man that used to work for him. He used to not. So my dad bought me a set of voice, I think, they were at this time.

It was, you know, back at four clubs. And he would take me out golfing here at the local, you know. Bam Busker was a local community out there in South Stockton. And that's all I started. And then my father got remarried by 13, and we moved out north by Swinson Park, which is, of course, here in town. And I used to ride my bike, you know, pull my cart and ride my bike to the golf force. And just got hooked, you know.

I started, you know, basically playing like at 11. And when I was 14, I won my first tournament to stop in junior championship. And I shot 72-69. And during the tournament, a friend and myself, we were in the same group when we got back-to-back, hole in one. And so... Was that your first one? Yeah, my first one.

It was my first tournament, I were played in. I went by seven shots. and this is what was sort of as you'll spread into float data it's sort of like my father was really hard on me so I never forget I got our

Ripley's believe it or not had sent me some stuff on because it was that then that was that heard of you know back to back home now it's more kind you know said

more still a rare feat but it's more common back then it was that heard of they said the odds were astronomical and so they wanted to put it in they're, you know, whatever they use their stats. And then when I got home, my father told me that I could have won by more, you know, and that sort of set the stage that it was never good enough, you know, never enough.

It was always more, more and more. And he was not an author? Nope. Right at all. Not at all. What was, you know, I'm only going off kind of what I read in the manuscript, but my takeaway was, you seem like kind of a hellraiser. Was golf kind of your grandma's attempt to, like,

hey, why don't we try to focus some of this energy in a positive place, or is that a projection by a baby? Probably a projection by you. I think he just wanted, you know, I was a hellraiser, you know what I mean? Because my father wasn't around much, you know, and so he would spoil me with interior things, you know. And when I was young, I had a go-carp, mini-bike, you know, 10-speed. and so I used to

my go-karter you saw University of the Pacific was right down the street from where we live I get my go-cart go down the street to the UOP if they were racing around and the campus cops would chase I was like eight years old

you know and there's a little gopren and they went and were like 50 miles an hour and baths and I'd be jamming all around the campus and they're chasing me in the car and I take up and go and go and hide in my garage you know, pull in before they could catch me. And that's just sort of how I just had that in me, you know,

that spirit or just having fun without, and I never got trouble, you know, because that's, I think, as you ran the book, which leads to later on the decisions I made in life, you know, I did have consequences for my actions, you know. I just always sort of got away with things. And was that due to personality? I think it was just my flaw. And I think it was my father's way of just not being there for me

and his way of just showing his love would just, you know, I grew up in, you know, and at kind of family we'd had dinner, and I was eight years old, I could drink wine at dinner. Yeah. I mean, how many, you know, nowadays, that would just be totally frowned upon, you know. But in my household, it was okay, you know, they weren't letting it get drunk, right?

You know, but, you know, they pour me a little glass of wine and I can have some sips. So I had no boundary. You know, I set my own boundaries. Everything in my world was okay to do, you know. And I think it led to obviously the decisions I made later on in life, which will, yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. So I guess parallel tracks are very interesting to me, but the golf career continues to progress and progress and progress because going from, you know, a 12-year-old junior tournament to potentially a shoe and sort of Walker Cup team, there's a lot of, there's a lot of good golf. Well, yeah, I mean, I played in the high school team, and I went our sectional at state, you know, Northern South sections when I was a junior in high school.

And then I, you know, was winning locally a lot of tournaments. You know, I mean, at this stage, I mean, I've won well over a hundred tournaments. But I just was, it was my passion, you know, I didn't do it for anything as well with the game, you know. And the fact thing, you know, you got a lot of notoriety because you're always in the paper. You're always, you know, the accomplishments are always written about it. And, you know, we're talking 50 years ago. Golf in college was a whole different kind of not like it is today.

So I never had my aspirations to go to like Texas and, you know, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USC, you know, because it was just a lot different. So I just went to play golf, you know. And so after I went to high school, I played a couple of years. I mean, I went to Delta, which was the local junior college, and I played there for two years and did well, you know, won some of our tournaments. And then really didn't know what I was going to do. And a coach up at Chico State, Sack State, Santa Barbara. And so started pursuing me for golf.

And I really did really want to go to college. It just wasn't like golfage today. I mean, I'd be the whole different, you know, world. So I ended up this guy for Chippa State. She just was pursuing and pursuing. So I finally decided to go up to Chico State. And I went up there, you know, for golf, but that didn't work out too good.

As you know, at end of what you've read. I think that was the beginning. of the downfall for me. Why didn't that word out? Well, because number one, I went to a parochial school. I went to St. Mary's High School. I went to the Parochial School, the Catholic School. I went to high school,

St. Gary, which was a parochial school. Really structured, just all this thing. And I go to Chico State. When I went up there was the number one's hardy school in America. I mean, Brent, I play called it. And I think that was one of their precincts chokes to go up there. And so when I was driving up to register that day,

saw a friend from Staten that I knew but went through different high school driving down the roads. It's too late road to go up there and he pulled over and I told him I was going up to Chico to register and go play golf. So he says, I'll go up there with you

and he ended up registering for school and we became roommates and when we got up there. Well, my first day coming home from school I walk in our apartment and he's got like three pounds of marijuana wheat on the tape. I mean, three, four pounds.

It's just packed. And, you know, I smoke a little marijuana in high school, but, you know, this is like, yeah, this is the big way. This was big days. And I looked at, I said, Mike, what are you doing? He says, well, how do you think I'm going to pay for college, you know? And I said, well, you know, my father was. I was paying for my, you know, room and for it.

And so I, that was just the start of it, you know. And I got in a fraternity. And so, you know, drug use was rampant, you know, cocaine, LSD acid, varijuana, drinking. It was just one big party. And coming from where I came from, it was a whole new world. And so that's where I got introduced it to cocaine. And that's where, you know, the partying started.

Well, I got in for, quit the golf team. You know, I was at least I want, but, you know, this was a whole different world. Why do you think he quit? Was it just to make time for other things? Yeah, just a party. Party was just, you know, I was having too much fun. You know what I mean? I mean, I should do this day. I regret.

I mean, that just shows my maturity level. I wasn't really mature enough to handle the situation. You know, it was just some new and so different. And then one night when I was home, we had another roommate. He wakes me up, shakes, says, Joy, get up, get up the house. The apartment's not fired. And I wake up when it's full of smoke and I start to run out. about kitchens and flames.

And Mike, the guy with Ileneu, is passed out on the cap. She'd made some French fries, put them in a pan full of oil and fell asleep. And so half the place burned down. And at that point, I just said, I'm not out of here. You know, it was just, this was too much.

It was, I wasn't doing anything constructive. I wasn't going to school. I was just partying. I wasn't there to golf anymore. And so that was my perfect. And then I felt guilty. And I'm like, dad, my parent are paying for me to go to school up here. And then that's when I came back.

I was playing golf. And I was, you know, start golfing again and doing pretty well. And that's when I had a choice to buy my, I went to work for my high school's dad who had a small little toy cup. Your high school girlfriend. Yeah, the high school girlfriend. And her dad had a little. one-man operation toy company I first went when I came back

I went started selling insurance and I didn't like it I was selling you know these supplements to old folks you know like in their 70s and I just felt like that I'd be the way to make the logger cup feet no yeah that's the mid-am life

yeah and I felt you mean I didn't feel like this was good stuff so I um he he offered them to make give me a job and so I took them up on it

so I worked for him for an idea but the drugs were becoming more and more involved in my amount. Now I'm playing golf and I'm still playing pretty good but you know I'm parted too now my friends you know cocaine every now and then and how old are you

this 22 22 and so I got involved with some pretty heavy hitters from the East Coast and they were Colombians who were bringing cocaine in

from my end and they were flying it out here and some guy that I had met along the way I didn't realize how big they were into it I just stupled sort of like he took the lackey to me

and I wasn't selling anything we were just buying from me and my friends will unbeknownst me he was like a pretty big so they offered me a job and it was to go house sit for them when they would fly in from Miami with the drugs and I would pick them up at the airport and then bring them back and you know they were in opinion like this was back in the early 80s like 2,500 a week so it was like I was all over you know yeah there's just like back bringing up or no yeah you know I just how stupid I

I was. I mean, this is this crazy. So I... What's the catch? It doesn't matter. No, yeah. So I told my girlfriend's fault that I was not quit. Yeah. I didn't tell him why. I just said, you know, it was something... And so he made me an offer at that time to go by his company.

It was just, he didn't really... He had other things going on. This was he'd just rent his race horses to be there. And so it was just more about psychic form. So I had, now I had an opportunity to buy something legit. You know, it was like $25,000 and he was going to carry like, he said, give me $7,000 down and I'll carry the rest. Well, I had a car that I had bought when I got back in college.

So I went and talked to Ernie George, who was a pro here at Swetton Park. That's where I grew up playing golf. And I was thinking that, you know, how sticky my thinking was. is that I could go do what I was doing with these guys and play golf, you know, and start working on my game and maybe turn crow and go, you know, start chasing it like that. So I went to Ernie, and I talked to him. I said, hey, Ernie, you know, I didn't come with my other opportunity was. I just told him that I had an opportunity to buy this little toy company.

And I said, you know, but I said, Ernie, I think, you know, I'd like to turn pro and maybe try and go play. you know, see how I could do. And Ernie, God bless her soul, he's since passed. He says, you know, Joey, you're a good golf. He says, you're a really good call. But he says, you go up there and you're going to become a small fish and a large option. And he says, you have an opportunity to buy this little toy company. He says, you work on your game.

You continue to playing tournaments and maybe start going to a national level. and he said she could become a big fish in a small pond. I'll never forget that. And I thanked the Lord that I took his advice. And so I ended up, I turned the other one down, and I ended up buying this little toy company. And that's how I started my business. And then, yeah, now I could play my golf, you know,

and I was doing really well, Winnie, you know, a lot of tournaments here locally. And then I started to go out onto a national level to play and I never forget I always used to think you know you would how you get better

as you hang around people who are successful right I mean that's how you you can never forget my I think it was give me my second third national tournament I went

Jay Siegel now and it was for those that don't know one of those decorated amateurs ever you know Walker Cup legends on my alley yeah

that's Bob one Yeah. Yeah, probably the best, really next to Bobby Jones, I got one of the best amateurs who's played this game. And so I had never forget. It was a Cherry Hills. I don't know if it was a U.S. Amateur or a, I knew this might have been the U.S. I qualified for the U.S. Amateur. And Jay and I, he, he friend. He, you know, he just spoke a lack of TV because I was following around like a puppy dog. I wanted to learn. I wanted to pick his grain, you know. And so all week, I never forget, after I, I don't think I qualify. And so, but I stayed for the weekend for a match, for a match, play. So I followed him all week. I mean, literally walking down to Farroway, asking up with questions, like, Jay, so like, what are you thinking, like, right now? And this guy, he was such a nice job.

I mean, he's sitting there, you know, as I look back now, I think, oh, my God, if someone would do that to me, I would think, you know, just, well, me, at the law point, you know, I mean, what are you doing? I mean, in the finals, I think he was, it might have been against Migglesson, you know, there are the semis, and I'm walking on the fairway, saying, he's so, like, gee, what's going through you, right? You know, I mean, and yeah, and so, and he's just gracious the whole, dude, gracious the whole way. I mean, to this day, I remember two of the things that he had caught. He told me about what he thought was the most. important thing also. And he said that ball position was one

and that he never got a shot more than 80%. And that was with two things that stuck to, you know, that I take from probably the 500 portions I asked them during the weaf. But, and so that was the start of starting to go on a national level. And so now I got my little toy company and I'm stuck to play, you know, grids off

and winning a lot of terms locally. And then I, my business, to start to expand. You know, the people that I was going to go do this work for with this house set for. Within a year, they had got busted coming in off the planes, and they all went to jail. And, I mean, you know, it's like, thank the Lord again,

that I didn't choose that route. And so I expanded, you know, my toy business, and I got into the video games, which were arcade machines back then. They became really big. I love that story in the book are you talking about going to pick up

quarters with the first stash $2,000. Here we go. There we go. $2,000. Yeah, so. All right, folks, a quick break in the interview to talk to about our friends at Roeback,

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And use code N-L-U at checkout for 20% off your first order through the end of the week, pants, hoodies, vests, and more Ro-B-B-H-B-H-H-H-R-B-B-B-H-H-E. has you covered. Let's get back to our interview with Joey Ferrari. I had, you know, were you pretty pretty clean at this point as far as... Yeah, but I mean, I'm still partying, you know, but not like every day.

I wasn't like a druggie, you know, strong out on Coke, but we would party it, you know, I'd do it a couple concerts part, you know. Without, you know, has Dave A Dave's around, but is it, was this fairly common in the ball circles in that time?

Or do you figure like something from the golf? Definitely, yeah, definitely hiring some from the tentative of votes, you know, but I was a successful businessman, you know, I mean, I was, now I had, I got married. I had three children and, you know, a wife, and I had, at this one, like, say, five, six, I had three pizza restaurants, Troy Company, I had a burrito shop, and, um. The retail day is, like a legit entrepreneur. legitimate and now which allowed me with it was that pretty pretty innate

well you know I think and to this day I always calculate it I don't know if it was that I was a good businessman or that the golf the golf opens up so many doors as you probably seen it you know you're correct you know

business people bankers they want to play with you you know because I'm in the papers all the time you know because I'm winning tournaments and so So it just opened up so many doors for people in the community. And so, you know, money was easily had, you know, I could go to the bank and borrow money to buy business. No, soon I got hit a six iron, he's good for it.

Yeah. No, it's crazy, but it's how, so I mean, I think they went hand at hand, you know. And so, how old were you at this one? Am I early mid-20s? No, no, no, no, no, my late 20s, I just got married to 29. So I'll say in my early 30s. now. Yeah.

So a decade pretty much about and I built up these businesses and I'm, you know, playing pretty good at all. And then in my 30s is when it all went

crazy, you know. Cocaine became a little bit more free play, you know. Was there a turning point on this? Carrey or was it a slow... It was the turning point was one of my... So what happened, how it all started

is when I like my last year when I played in the U.S.O. But that year, you know, I, like I said, lost in the finals of the U.S. mid-Aid. I lost in the California state championships, that Northern California championship. I'd won Northern California Player of the Year. I was winning tournaments all over California.

I think I was gone like 16 out of 19 weeks, trawling. Yeah. Because, you know, now I'm playing national. I'm playing national tournaments, you know. You know, I went to Peru for the NC, with the NCG. A lot of questions about that. Yeah, okay.

That's a pretty big. To this point, what's your biggest golf company? I think, well, you like, U.S. made am losing in the fine. I mean, I could have won, tried a shit or what, but, you know, I just. Which would have got to be a master's, right? Yeah, but it got me a master's. Yeah. You're probably, they kicked the winner and the runner up.

What did you do USA and now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Back in the day, you know, they just keep cutting more and more. amateur because it's international so much now so the amateur the one I think there's only four or five that are allowed into it now yeah and so I um and I never forget I mean I hit up cut on 18 I was one down but I had one like two at the last four holes and the moment was in my him on my side and on 18

he had a cut he left about three feet short and I had this about 15 foot of downhill how that cut did he go in? I'm serious. It hit the front of the hole and went all the way around to the back and stopped. Oh, half in, half in, half up. And I never forget the USGA in their magazine printed, you know, where they had like a photo sheet, you know, where, oh, yeah, by frame by frame. And in the background, you could see the whole crowd just gone, you know, like, and all I can say is it wasn't meant to be. It wasn't my turn because that, but seven out of ten times is you're going to fall.

If I could fall, I could say it just wasn't my turn. That's all, you know, that's how you have to take it, take out of it. So I said that at that time was my biggest accomplishment. I didn't want to the California, you know, I lost in the files that. You're a good friend of mine, Casey Boynes, who's a living legend in California in the NCAA world. You know, he's, they're unbelievable. We're one of my dearest friends in the ball for, by far. And, yeah, he beat, he's a caddy at Pebble Beach.

He's the number two man there. He's been there for how many years, but his golf accomplishments far away. You know, I mean, he's won, like, 17 NCAA titles, and he's really good. And so it was at Pebble. It's like this own porch, you know what I mean? and in the morning round I got him I think I was one up

two of after the morning round and in the afternoon he got me and he beat me two and one which was pretty good at calm I mean I could have been but it's like he knows that course like the back I mean you know you're not going to be

like that we're just really he's not only a great golfer but then you know playing on his hump turf on yeah but so and then through all this time pointed both locally and nationally, or regionally, California-wise,

you're going down through the desert and then you're playing down in L.A., you're playing Pebble, Cyprus. Sure, yeah. Yeah, we got to play all those, you know, our state am. We played Cypress Point. It was part of the ball flying

and Bebble Beach for our mass play was in. And then later on, they took Cyprus where then we went to Monterey Peninsula. We had a croft in spite of the last. Yeah, you know, So that's where our horses were. But back to the story, what happened is so that year, I played it. I was gone like 16 weeks, traveled, you know, from South America to Europe to playing the British Jam and all over the country.

And so I just said, you know, I'm going to lay back in golf. I mean, you pay your own way. Something like today, you know, with this nil money and all, you have it. There you get funded. Back then, I just paid. And I had a family, had businesses, and a lot in my basket. Well, on that front, what were your aspirations in golf, right? Because you weren't going to turn for now, but you're still permanent at both ends.

Yeah, what was the, what was dry to that? I just to prove to myself that I could play the best in the world. Yeah. And I get. I proved that. I mean, I was one of the best in the world, you know, as far as an amateur, you know. the pros at the whole different level. Yeah, I play with them.

I played in the qualifier at the U.S. Open and beat them. I used to go playing a Pink Pro Scratch with a Lopo Pro Bob Eastwood. You know, you get guys like Phil Mickelson, all then playing it. We finished like second one year, third and other so we, you know, I could play with these guys. I knew that. But so my, I guess my goal was just to prove that I could do it. Yeah. And I get, I mean, I reached that level.

And so that next year, I was going to cut my schedule back. And the worst of the suits I ever made in my life, I really was. And that's where the story changes. I had gotten a letter from the USGA for the Wopper Cup that I was, and I think they sent up a letter to like 14 plays and can make the team. and I thought it was a friend of mine playing a joke I'm thinking when I got the letter which basically said you keep going

you're your A-line you got to do this bat to think you got a good tear and so I thought it was a joke because back then the West Coast we didn't get a very many player I mean tied to wars you know because that's when he was coming out but it was an East Coast because all your big natural turn for is on the East Coast and that's where most of your walk-a-cut team came from.

So when I got that letter, I fund up the USDA, and I told them, hey, I just got this letter and that on your figure, he said, Joey, you're pretty much a slam duck because, I mean, I had a pretty good year, and because I was just watching it this weekend, and I saw some of the accomplishments that these kids have made. I mean, obviously, they're phenomenal golfers, and they're great. But I have... The center is interiors.

The center. of it's so easy am instant yeah and i and i thought looking back that i have you know my stack as good as any of their you know or they did so uh and i have pieces so what have you've been played i said i have you know because i was so i said wanting to cut back and he said wow he says uh well and how about if we get you into the western amateur amateur we for like the next week I haven't been playing much, you know, I mean. And he said, would you go? I said, yeah, now we have to play Woppertup, of course, you know.

So they get in a tournament. I fly out. I go playing to Western India. I don't, I mean, I didn't play well enough. I don't, you remember, but I don't, because they had different flights. She's like, yeah, and I don't remember how I did, but it wasn't good. And I just thought, you know, screw this. I'm not going to now, well, the rest of the side.

I'm going to start chasing again. My game wasn't at the level that it should have been. And that's probably the biggest regret that I ever had, you know. And the second one is because when I laid off the golf, my time, I had more time. Golf was always my, you know, escape. My, I worked hard, you know, and like I say, the cocaine was always part of it. That was my escape. I didn't go to bars.

I didn't hang out drinking, you know, I would do it. Mike's state would be cocaine. I would, every couple weeks, we'd go and just sort of fed job. Well, the year that I quit playing, a good friend of mine, him, Guilty, who were still good friends to this day,

introduced me the meth. What was the sales bitch? Because it was... He said, because he was, he was a kid I introduced to coach when I came back in Chico, because he, we're best buddies since high school. To this day,

Joe best friends. And his pitch was he went crazy on the cocaine, too, but worse than I did. I mean, he was doing it all the time. And his wife got wind a bit, and she was, you know, fed up. And so Billy came across now. And his sales bit was, Joey, he don't chase it like the cocaine. It's just you could do a line and just get your wire all day. You know, that was a sales pitch. And I'll never forget when we drove up, the day he took me to his connection. He goes, he looks at me, goes, I don't know if I'm doing you an injustice or just, you know, I mean. And to this day, I tell you, son of a gun, you know, you tell me it. Yeah.

And we can laugh about it now. And so he introduced me to this map. And so I start doing it. Here's the difference. You're doing it every day. it's like coffee how it does just sort of

wires you but you know cocaine you chase you know it's you get that initial rush up euphoria

and then you just chase it more more and more just it never ends you know and then you get all

geeked out when you said earlier you're just veging out and yeah that was are you

are you just going to you know by myself or paying up pool just by myself

I would go hide out to my, like, one of my warehouses or something and just get all tweaked out and then, you know, more and more and then come home, my wife would be pissed off. She'd know, you know. But it was my escape. It was, you know, I had so much things going on in my world with all my businesses, all the golf, and a success, and everybody wanting to be joe, you know,

everyone wanted my time, speaking engagements, It's going to, you know, local places and giving talks. And it was just my escape. It feels like, again, this might be the bad projection, FIB, but it feels like your personality is a gift and a curse. You know, definitely. In a lot of these. Oh, yeah.

It feels like you connect with people. I can feel as we're doing this podcast immediately. Like, you're just very easy to talk to you. You know, you're a guy that, like, I can imagine in the best of time that can lead to the most unbelievable, the bank loans, all the things you're talking about. And in the worst of times, I could see how that will be

into trouble as well. Yeah. And it did, you know, I mean, like the story like South America. Yeah, well, all right. Let's go there. So we're playing this is the, the South America amateur change.

Yes. Yes. And you're over here. You're playing if I got Pepeg down there. Yeah. So I go over and it was, they kicked, they invited about nine of us from the United States.

And Jeff Klamas, who would beat me in the, files of the mid-Am was invited and then the NCGA asked me to go and they paid for my flight and everything but they sent over the president of the NCGA to go with me because it's the first time you know that they'd done anything like this yeah so they wanted to go and see what it was like so on the flight over the president i buy his name he it was like a 15-hour flight so So he had Xanax. And so he gives me like four or five of them.

You know, so I'll just take this. And if you could sleep and, you know, it'd be, well, I didn't take it. I kept, you know, five or six, seven. So I'm going to South America and to play golf in their championship. And I'm thinking Peru, Peruvian-flab cocaine. That's what I had on my grain going over there. So sure enough, I get there and I get paired the day before they have what they call. Well, it's not a program, but it's called the Amic, because we're all amateurs for, you know, all over South American.

I got paired with the mayor of Lima, Peru, and we won the ML. And so the next day, I get paired with his son, who's on the Peruvian dog. And we're walking down the first fairway in on me if I didn't waste any time. And I bring up his nearest pet bank And I bring up cocaine And he looks at me He goes

Ah you like And I didn't say it Yeah you know The police is I said yeah I've always wanted to try that Peruvian flake you know And he goes

Well okay He says I get you some You know How much would you like And I said Well Back here in the States

A hundred dollars Would be a gram That's what you know Got to live days This was in the 80s No 90s, this is like 90 or five, 95, and it's so like a hundred dollars by a gram. So I sort of lucked a hundred dollars worth.

And he goes, he looks at me, you know, like, okay. And I'm thinking, you know, Apple is that, something's not right here. So I said, with that baby, how much is it like a hundred dollars worth? He goes, 10 grams, you know, pure Peruvian flake. So I'm thinking, no, I said, I just want to try a little bit, you know. And so I called Jeff Thomas because he's smoked wheat. He loved smoked wheat because we became friends up to the Mid-Aveter Championship. So I, he goes, after we don't, we go across the street to my place and, you know, I would just tease him.

And if he walks in the back bedroom and comes up with that plate, it must have had a pound of, I mean, it was a pile of a big pile. And I'm dead, oh, Lord, you know what I mean? I'm over here with the president of the NCGA. I'm playing in the sophomoreian challenge it. I got the count of cocaine in Peru in front of him. So he takes a little carding, takes a little sniff up each nose in. And he goes, to help yourself. So I take the car, and I lay out this line about eight inches loft.

And he looks at me like, he crazy cream, though. You know what I mean? I'm not thinking. I mean, I just think it's normal. So I snort this line up with a minute later. My face is dumb. I'm so wired. It's just like this is nothing.

I've very like the first teeth. I'm just jacked out of my mind. You know, and you're chasing that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so every day after the around, we go over to pet base and scarcoat. And then I go back and I eat at Xanax at night. That would be a lot.

Yeah, and go to sleep. And I went to turn up by seven shots. By seven shots. And so, if I could golf game and off? Not because I would sleep. Yeah, if I did sleep, that probably, of course, but that Xanax was the say ever intersex? Do you ever play rounds?

No, I never played on Coke, you know. I mean, a couple times where I went to tournaments to go play, like in California and maybe he took some Coke with me for the tried down, you know, and I would snort the Coke on the way down and then continue throughout the night and never go to sleep.

And so then I withdraw because, like, I couldn't go to the golf course, you know, Coke, you know. Yeah, a couple of times, but not much, you know. I try to keep, you know, that separate. I mentioned earlier, or you mentioned, you know, I feel like you're hiding some of this from the country club of Gabel and you're doing a lot of this by yourself.

Is it, you think anybody has any idea? Is it my, I'm paranoid at all or anything? My friends. Just my friends. And it, my wife got wind of it when I was doing the meth because I started doing it every day, you know, and she could tell. At first, she didn't know. And she was saying, oh, Joey, says, you know, I like you so much better,

now that you're not doing the cocaine, but I'm doing meth every day. and she ended up, but after about three months, four months, you know, I lost like 15 pounds, and I'm staying up at three in the morning, and she'd walk out in the front room, you know, it's like, she got wind, you know, this is, so she says, she knew, and so she said, well, you got to stop, you know, and it's like, no, I got this. I mean, look what you got, look at what I built, you know, these businesses, what I've done, so no one was going to tell me what to do and she wasn't having it so she's trying to get me to stop so she files for divorce and um i'm saying fine screw you you know i mean i didn't care i was i thought you know not going to

tell me what to do well that led to me losing everything because she fought me in court you know my father had given my father one of my businesses and then so when I was going through divorce one of my partners who I brought in in the pizza parlor wanted to split up because he thought was going to get messy long story short my partners were embezzling money

my father was taking money from me I was just oblivious because I was okay I didn't I trusted people I just till this day I'd do and so it just led to a demise And so within two years, I lost everything, everything I built. And now I lose my house. I lost my children.

My wife's still fine for a divorce, trying to give me to sober up, basically is what she's trying to get me to do. And I'm fighting the world. You know, I'm mad at the world, you know, screw everybody. Look what I've done. Look what I've given everybody. This is what you're doing to me. I was, that's how screwed up by thinking.

Were you playing any golf at this point? No. No, no, not. I mean, a little bit, but, you know. Yeah, I mean, I guess I was going out on playing, but, you know, I mean, you're on math. You know, so it was out of the playing league tournaments. I think my last term, and I played in with Bith Casey, we went in CTA four ball at Spine Glass for our septic time. And then after that, it just sort of, you know, I'm in the midst of a divorce, son.

it just things were spiraling out of control and so I ended up living in a storage area because I lost everything my kids were taking from me the courts are trying to you know you're out of control I mean you know you're doing drugs every day

and I still was fighting the system no one's going to tell me what to do so I ended up with a guy that I knew who was I would get the method from. And he was a small-time dealer. And so, now, I've lost every day. I'm living in a storage. I'm riding a bike. I lost my cars. I mean, you talk about being on top of the

world and then going to nothing. So being a businessman, you know, after two years and losing everything about six months into this, I got to make some money. I mean, I've lost everything. I mean, literally in a storage room. So I tell it, this guy's that, this name is Chuck. How about if, you know, we go in partners a little bit, you show me who you're getting from it.

And that'd be so I could start selling a little bit because I need, I thought, my first thought I could get mine for free. That's my money. Absolutely safe money, right? Yeah, I try to save money. So it starts out just small time old being a businessman. Which, Joey.

I take it to the next level. And literally, I mean, the type of story show, within eight months, I'm doing a billion dollars a month in business. I'm doing... Is that all... Is that all...

All meth. All cocaine. Or you have a network? I have a network. When I built up a network now, you know, I got people coming from a franchise. It's franchising.

No, yeah. I come from everywhere, you know. And I'm just like, you know, suitcases of cash. I got. I mean, it's just like crazy, you know. What are you doing all this out of the storage here? I'm

moving, actually, from motels to motels. I'm going into motels. And then a friend of mine who, where I grew up, Lippy, I mean, when I lived out of the country where I was married, he had a house, a couple's houses over, and

one of my best friends that was right next door to me. And so his name was Steve, and Steve knew that, he didn't know what, he knew that was struggling, but he didn't know now that I was starting to solve so he says, hey, why don't you go I'll ask Tom if he could stay

at his hacks. Tom is a good friend of mine who got divorced he had eight of three daughters. We lived out in the country, all three of us right next to each other. And Tom had a, he used to build tomato plants, you know, with that way processed tomatoes. He was

an engineer. So he was gone like eight months out of the year. So Steve found him up and times said, yeah, sure, he could stay in and stays the house. And so I got the house and I'm staying there. And now I'm selling drugs out of his house. And he's not a rat. He's, you know, I don't know, he's all the little place.

And so I'm just now I got this tremendous business going on. You know, I'm in the drug world. Now is it just math or you do it with bank? Metham Coat Cote, and so now I'm in this different world because now I'm dealing with literally I had worked out from just like a local dealer to where I got into meets of like the Mexican cartel you know because to get, when I started selling more and more product

now you've got to go up the ladder and it took me a while to work that but you know and started traveling down there. No, because it's local, was this local? Because you'd be surprised how, you know, et cetera. And so I never forget when his name was Abraham. I met another guy and his name was Abraham and sort of worked my way up. And somewhere in his family hierarchy, they were bringing it in from Mexico.

And so he was going to introduce me, okay, his connection, which is like straight from there. I never forget, the first day when they drove up, like, two SUVs, you know, went full of soldiers, as I talked about the book, you know, like, probably four or five, on to the hill. And he had, and the other one, you know, with this driver, and I think I hurt a boy, you know, I mean, I was really, truly, like, what do you feel? Yeah. Now I'm a little luris because it was like, you know, this is no joke, you know. And so they wanted to meet who this gringo, it is a white boy, who was all of a sudden starting to, you know, buy three, four, five pounds. of cocaine every day. You know, you're talking, you know, 50 grand a day

with, you know, 30, 40,000 dollars. Day, they took a liking to me. I mean, because they trusted me. The thing, that was the thing of my life. And so I, no, I'm in, no, I'm here. And so I'm just going to town, trusting, again, trusting people. And the book is, you'll really,

there's a few stories I tell but why in my way what happens is somebody sets me up with the DEA and I end up selling the DEA like three times and I had a lawyer. My lawyer

is strung out on my drugs and he's yeah that's how I paid it through the dope and so he was representing me a case in court because I had another case where when I was at Tom's house somebody owed me some money. and they couldn't pay me.

So they, I was, you know, people would give me diamonds, guns, just whatever they could trade for the dope, and I'd take it all, you know, everything. So he says, I got some really nice swords. I'll get you, and it's okay, fine. Well, he uses a stolen credit card, and he sends the things to the house where I'm staying at. Well, one day I'm coming back from the casino,

because I used to go to the casinos on the weekends because it was just my escape to get away from all this madness, you know? Let's go to the cash. I got all this cash. I would go up there and, you know, $50, $20,000, $25,000, lose it and not even think anything by it.

But I would get away for the weekend and have fun and when I got that. So I'd come back home from the casino and coming up to Tons House and there's like cops everywhere in front of the house. And I'm thinking, Uh-oh, something was not on good here, you know. Well, Tom, in the meantime, had come back from one of his trips and was back at home.

He had no idea what I'm doing, but when the cops came, they told him, hey, we have, you know, someone, you know, Joey Furrin, we're trying to find him because stolen credit card was used so far, so on, so on. And he says, well, he stays, you know, he stays here with me, you know, his room's right down there. So he lets him in, and they go to the room and they find guns, a silozo, stolen property, the whole bit. So now that's, I'm on the run, because now they're trying to fight me. And so you weren't there during that. You got tipped off. I got to tell when I drove home, but I saw.

So the girl that I was dating at the time, I whipped somewhere else, I told her, I said, you have to go to the house and see what's. I'm not going, you go. And so she's okay, you know, so she goes to the house. And about an hour later, I don't hear her. So I phone up the house, and someone answers the phone. And it's not Tom, and it's not Misty, what's her name? And I said, up. I said, is Misty there?

And he goes, is this Joey? I said, Jenny, goes, well, this is DeCatry son? So he says, why don't you come on? He said, we need to talk. And I said, well, is Missy there on? And he goes, that doesn't matter. You need to come pop with us. I said, well, let me call you back when I hang up.

And then about 15 minutes later, I'm talking to the people I'm with. And I had a phone back. And I said, up half an hour now. I said, he answers the phone again. He says, you're going to come talk to us? I said, well, is Missy there? And he goes, no, she's not. I said, well, where is she?

He goes, well, she's been arrested. I said, for what? He says, stolen property to start off with. you know, I mean, guns, and he's going on. And he says, so I hang up. And I phone to jail, load I jail, and shirt up. She was getting booked in. So I ended up sitting someone, and I bailed around.

And now I'm sort of on the rut. And I had a corp date from a ticket that I had, and I had to go to court with Gerald, and I think that the other story about the Porsche and drugs another story and when I go to the court I get arrested because they're

waiting for it and so that's what started. At that point it didn't even occur to you that hey I'm going to fugitive from the law I'm all to run I probably shouldn't go to this no no because you that's how you know

you just had your drug you've got a lot worse well no because now I'm just just using it like coffee Yeah, I mean, I was like, I mean, I'm doing it every day, but, you know, meth is different than cocaine. I mean, it's worse in its own way because you can stay up for days. And if you see people lose all their teeth and they get, you know, crazy.

Well, I would sleep every night. And it was just, you know, but it became the soul food thing because I'm the dealer. So people, you know, just do it with them because they're coming and buy a product, buy it product. And so that's what really, it was the downfall. I mean, here I am, you know, doing a million dollars a month in methamphetamine. And I, you know, wanted by the law. And now they got cases because I got guns.

And they set me up. That's where they found one of my people I was selling about in trouble for something. And he said, well, okay, you're a big crash. I think they did a big fish. And so he sets me up with the DEA. And then so they, I sold this guy the first time. I just, you know, you get a fee, something is not right. And I never fear I found this kid who is there was Barry.

I said, hey, Eric, this giant guy says, you know, something's, no, no, no, he's cool. You know, I've known him from Sacramento. He just lied to me. And so I said, okay, laundry vouching for him. Well, second time, he comes back in like a week and why is like a bigger amount, a quarter pat. Sell it something, no problem. Third a week comes and was a half pet.

I sell it to her, and he called me out. He goes, hey, I took it to my people in Gulp, which is a little town at the road here. And he said, they all loved it. I'm thinking, you know, it's a small little town, and I pretty much control this area now, you know what I mean? And I know that this is a bullshit store. So I phoned up my attorney, and I tell us, hey, Harold, I said, I think I saw a cop, and a cover cop.

And he's so stupid. I mean, this guy, not really. He goes, well, just don't sell him no more, you know? Well, thank you the great advice, you know what I mean? So, and I did. I cut him off because he saw me back the next week that you wanted a pound. And so I knew. You just go, bam, man, bam, bad, too fast, too soon.

so what they do is they follow you like you know like with the mafia whatever they build their case you know so they follow you for months at license plates where you're going you know build in their case you get they already had it but now they want to see the whole surrounding you know who's who's who what's going on and about two and a half once later you know the girl that i was dating he used to say she was you're being followed you know oh you're just paranoid right you know you're paranoid did not it's not

well the last few before I got busted I did recognize it you know bam's following

you know now I'm thinking yeah they are you know but I'm not worried about I'm thinking

you're invincible and yeah I'm again I'm a municipal I at work as cool so when they

obviously I'm by a consul you know he kicked me Yeah, and I'd been moving from hotel to hotel, and I was in this hotel, and a friend had come, get some dope, and I was walking out, and they came from every, which thing was, well, yeah, DEA, FBI, because of the guns, DEA to the drugs, crack net, Lodak police, because of the case in Lodak, stocked in P, B, there was like 50 of them.

hide the ground, motherfucker, you know, and guns pointed down my head, and that was it. And that was, that was, that was dead. You know, now I'm going to federal prison. And that's, how old are you? This, I was 50, maybe. No, I'm sorry. I was like, I got out when I was 53.

I did it change. It sounded like 43. This is like five years out, six, five years out. six, five years after the USO, no, six, seven years after the USO, but, you know, the drug dealing was really sort of short term. It was only like two, a little or two years. But I just expanded like crazy, you know, that was my mentality. You know, no consequences from my actions. I could do what I want and not worry about it. And whatever I did, I did to an extreme. You know, I just would go overboard. If it was my golf, if it was

cocaine, if it was now a drug, I'm a drug dealer. And I'm not a drug dealer, but yet I am. You know what I mean? I really didn't know, I mean, because believe me, you're dealing with some unsavory characters. I was in a whole different you know, you go for country clubs, you know, and bankers and a whole different class too. I mean, I got taken out the field with guns to my head and rob and beat for my stash, you know, trying, and I, and choked out at the end of trying to kill me.

I didn't know, but choked out and left out, you know, miles from town and waking up in a middle of the field, you know, and it's a whole different world. Do you ever let yourself, how do you square those two things in your head, right? You just said, I'm a drug dealer, but I'm not, but I am. Yeah. Now, do those two things ever read out, or is it? Well, at the time, you know, you're not, you don't, I wasn't recognizing the severity what I was doing.

You know, and I really I thought, shit, you know, this is just like another, the next day. The next day. And that's, you know, the thinking, how, you know, distorted you get with it. It was just like another business. And I wasn't, you know,

till later on when you, you know, you're in prison and you're in federal prison, you recognize how stupid the thinking was, how the whole thing was just crazy. Folks, one more break in the action here to talk to you about our friends at the Stack. We've got the No Laying Up Club Championship this week. And I am going to be relying on some of the work I've been doing with Stack Wedges. I've got to take advantage of those scoring opportunities.

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when i when i got transferred um i fought my case in sacramento the federal law and the send a lawyer or to get a deal lawyer? Oh, no, no, he was gone. Yeah, so what happened, and this is part of the, I mean, really, I've been lucky my whole wife, I mean, really, and many ways, I've been really blessed. So when I was staying at this last hotel where they raided me at, my, the girl I was dating at the time. One night had taken like

a pound of meth and like $30,000 in cash. She was mad at me and went to Modesto to go apart. And I came home and saw, you know, like, that she had done it. So I found a girl the attorney who's, you know,

strong out on my stuff and told him what was happening. I said, girl, I need another room. And see, I was like, so he came and put the room in his name. Rins their room for me. And we went stairs, I kept all the stuff I had in that with guns, stole automatic weapons, dope cash, just diamonds.

I mean, literally, I had like $50,000, $100,000 in diamonds. And we moved it all into another room. And lo and behold, a week later is when I got raped. Now, they had to search for it for the room that I had been in. right Missy checked out because she came back and saw that

the room was cleaned out she went to her I didn't know at the time I was done with her and when I got raided outside I had the key

to my room in my back pocket so I took the key I'm in the swap van that they're all upstairs look where they're worn and I get this key

and I'm hand-cracked and I fling it like in the van. Well, about 20 minutes later, they come out. They went in the room. There was nothing there, right? It's clean. Well, they're getting ready to leave.

I'm obviously going to be arrested because they had, you know, the warrant for their sales, and they find this key. As, you know, card key, he said, FI, you know, where's this key,

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, deny, deny, deny. So they take the key to the front desk. And how do you learn this? Because you get, after you get a ref, they have what's called that discovery. So your whole case is laid out.

You could read it discovered, right? How it's all whipped down. So they take the key, they go to the front desk, and they say, oh, where's this? You know, it's, oh, it's ready to a girl. I won't say his last, you know, a week ago. So they go up to the room

and they look under the door, they look inside, they don't see any movement, they knock on the door, and no one answers, say, put the key in, and they open the door that go inside. Well, that's an illegal search thing, Jesus. Because none of that's of hell. I mean, that was a superversive, that was a superseding indictment. They got after the sales because they went in that room and had automatic weapons, guns, you know, or drugs, this all kinds of crap.

So when I went to court, so they end up arresting me, and I take into federal holding the facility, and the next morning you have to go to court in front of a magistrate. And so they give you a court-appointed attorney. And I'm sitting there in court, and they're reading the end. indictment, you know, this three sales, you know, count one for a sale of methamphetamine and penalty is 10 years to life. See, federal system's like, so they read the free, and then they had a superseding indict now with the automatic weapons and against, and that is like a 20-year mandatory meal.

I, you know, for that, look at this attorney next to me and I said, they got the wrong guy. No, really. I mean, life, you know, life? He was, I'm just the golfer. Yeah, yeah, right? And he said, we'll talk when we get outside. So after the date, we go outside, and he's telling me, he goes, you know, this is the feds. He said, they have, you know, statues that they go by, you know, and he says, you're looking at 10 years of life.

He said, and that those guns carry a mandatory minimum, automatically like 20 years. Well, long story short, I ended up being. that superseding a type because of the illegal search. So I had a 10-year mandatory minimum, and I was hoping to, you know, get like 10 years. The lawyer that was in a prosecutor was trying for 17 years. They wanted 17 years, and it's really up to the judge. So, well, actually, let's go back to step about,

I'm like a month down to get sick and you don't know you know we we know they were trying to work out a deal because the guns got eliminated and so we're trying to plea how long we're going to hit well I didn't know where the lawyers come when they had seen me say we got to call so well he says one of your guns was using a murder a murd now I know damn well I didn't shoot nobody or murder any or the guns is the show of force for you Yes. Well, after I got taken up that field and, you know, had GEDs health in my head and beaten, I, now I said, I need some protection. So that's when I said, you know, people, I'm being with, hey, can you get me again in a week at Tampa? You know, above automatic weapons, you know, 45s. So it was great. So that was only the reason I got to get, just for my protection.

And then I had an abundant, I just want, you know. Yeah. And so they, um, people would bring you guns for doubt they trade here. Here's a Colt 45, you know, give me an A ball, you know, okay, here, you know. So I went, oh, it was a very weapon. It's a win-win. This guy knew one of the guys that gave me the gun had murdered somebody in Alameda and robbed him and shot.

I didn't know who at this time, you know what I mean? So they want to meet with you. They want, you know, hey, I'm thinking in my mind, listen, they're following me for two, three months before they get me. So they know damn well that I'd go out at the San Francisco and shoot somebody because they're tailing pretty much 24-7. So I have to go meet with the feds and they put a book in front of me And you're looking through the pages, I see, I see the guy.

You know, and I said, they want, they just want you to identify it because now I know they got the array, but they want me to want to go testify against them. I mean, I'm not doing that. I mean, I'm thinking at this point, they have this guy. You know, you have to think sort of quickly. And I'm saying, you know, I don't know. I said, I see a few people, but I said, I don't know who gave me that gun.

I mean, like 10 of them is, you got to know, I have, you know, part of a few guns. Well, they had this guy already in jail. He was trying to get out of it because he knew he ate me the gun. So he was trying to finger me. That's how they came and tested the guns that I had and then linked it to. So I basically thought out of that. And so when I went to sit and see, because I, when you don't cooperate, They don't like you.

You know what I mean? And so this prosecutor wanted 17 years. And it's really up to the judge. He was, I think, 15 to 17. Well, the judge ended up giving me 12 years. The only way you get under the mandatory minimum is if you cooperate. If you go in and he starts snitching, you know. And I was about to do that.

I mean, I did. That is immoral, you know. And so about a year later, when I was incarcerated, Abraham, the guy who looks, was the connector, he shows up in jail. And now I'm in orderly, and I never forget I could go from pie to pie. And so I went over and saw Abraham, I said, Abraham, what's going on? So, Joe, they got me. You know what I mean?

And I had known because when I had got arrested, the girl that I was dating, when she'd visit me, she'd say, hey, Abraham wants all your connections because, I mean, I was making a lot of money for him. Land drive. Yeah, yeah. And I said, tell them, don't be stupid. They know everything. They know everything.

They had license plates. They have pictures. Just tell them, stop. Well, he wouldn't. You know, he tried to keep the business. Well, they got and they buzzed. So he's all pissed off at his family because he's saying,

now they're a batting in him, you know, and I said, well, welcome to the real world here. Well, after when we got sentenced, and I'm going down to where I have to go long co because where I got synchings, on the bus, lo and be oaks, Abraham's thunder with. And so I sit next to Abraham and we're sitting there talking,

counting stories, had it like, you know, good old times. We get down to San Bernardino, which is a coldie facility, and then they ship you out to wherever you go. And so when you go in, you get interviewed by the police, you know, about your case. And I said, hey, is there any chance I can get Abraham, there's my bump make to, you know, get shipped out. And he says, no, you can't. I said, why?

He says, he's a separate tea in your case. he's testified against you. Oh, yeah. So he got himself out of his 10-year man and Toro Mino. He got like seven years or six years. And he told on me everything, you know. So he went in, so last time I ever saw, you know, he went east somewhere and then I went to Lapo.

And you say, when did it hit me? That's when it hit me. When we love San Bernardino and then I was going to prison for the first time. I mean, county jail is bad enough. But now you're going to prison. I never forget, Paula Colombo, and they have three different facilities. They have a Lowe, and it had what was a USP,

which is United States Prison System. That's the highest level in the federal system. And that USP had just got converted to what's called a medium high because they just lowered the classification. And it just happened with, within the last year. So they had a lot of carryover of the people and a lot of were shipped out

and the life is we're shipped out. So when we pulled up to the camp and they called off like a bus, you know, and I'm looking at this camp with no fence, people walking around and that's pretty cool. You know what I mean? And I don't get called. They go around a corner to the Beatty.

Now they got a chain link, stamps around it. Nice field track and the guys are walking. And I said, okay, this is pretty cool, you know. Call up another quarter of the less, they don't call my name. So we go, I ride a corner, 15 foot walls, guard towers, razor wire, and I could, I thought, you fucked up. Yeah, this, that's when it hit you. This is like, this is the real deal now. And you're looking at how, I'm just, you know, I got since 143 months.

months, I think. 10 years, almost 12 years. 12 years for this is probably taking a couple of years. Two and a half a year. Yeah, and you do 85% of your time in the fiscal system. So I still got, you know, eight years to do or, you know, after even two and a half years, I'm only going to get 15% off of that. So what's that, you know, basically 20 months.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, I never forget. So you go in and you get checked in and, you know. get processed and they give you your bed roll you go and they tell you where your location is I know if you walk in and see two levels I'm you know he's a heavy door for the little windows guys hanging over the side and like you see in the movies you know I'm saying oh my god this you know this is you know yeah yeah I'm yeah I'm a little nervous now you know yeah they say the least

And so I go to the room and my pup mate, who was there for 18 banks he involved. So he was, and he's a white person. And so not within an hour, a couple of guys come to my door. And they come in and they interview, you know, the white boys. And they say, hey, cow, we know, what are you here for? What's your charges? Because they want to know, first of all, If you're a child molester, you know, they call Pachamo, not related.

If you're a rapist, something like, you know, that bad news, you know, arsonage. And so they want to see your pay for it. You know, so they'd like, I just got here. My paperwork will follow me, you know, I'm here for drugs. You know, I got sentenced to like 12 years so they know that I'm not under the mandatory minimum. If you're under the mandatory minimum. Right. They're not.

Right. So I got my, you know, thing. So you learned the rules of the Pritz, you know, and it was, again, a whole other role. You know the whites hang out with the whites, the blacks with the blacks, the standing with the Spang. And you have some serious, scary people.

Because I'm as at one of the top levels, you know, Chico, so it was, why be the authority to top level? Because those cases that I have, had before that were pending made my what's called they have a point system. So those cases never got settled because I got arrested before, you know, the, what at the house when they raided me, and when I got pulled over with the dope in my car. And so I had these cases and everything goes against you. So like even a speeding ticket will go against you as far as what we're appointed.

So my points were like up there where I was just almost went to a USP and it was like, you know, I'm the first time of Fed or for, yeah, selling drugs, but this is like, yeah, you're in a media, actually, you know, I just like, the real deal. So I lasted about six, eight months there until, like, one day, I was, they brought me a new roommate and he was half of Wyatt and half. white and he was a good a nice guy and so one of the shock collars in our unit came up to me he was a dirty white boy you have like the erring brotherhood dirty white boys Nazi lowriders iron these he have swastikas and i mean just but they run the show you know and so they told me that you have to switch rooms i said well why yeah it's because he's not what you he's why he's hang out with the white and he was, he's standing there. And I'm thinking, and so me being sort of stupid,

I said, I sort of argued with him. No, I said, this guy's a good guy, you know what I mean? He's white. He's halfway. What's the difference? She's a whian or whatever. And so we had to get locked down for a count. And the next thing, when the door's open, he comes rushing in it with gloves on his hand already,

swinging away, you know, get in a fight. And then the guards come. We both get thrown in the, shoe and I was in there for three months and in that time now I'd have been there from almost a year my point level had dropped your points sort of go down and you know at the time goes they take them off so I got transferred from there to Safford Arizona and that which which is a low and what and that was like now it's like pretty cool because it's you don't have the in comparison and comparison it's not it's

what they were called clubbed at lower yeah lifebook yeah it's a drop of the book yeah yeah you have tennis sport you know racquetball basketball basketball baseball baseball huge tv room i mean it was a whole different vibe you know what i mean it was stiff he still had some of the races but not like up at the higher battles you know so i was there for about a year and a half and my points dropped again and then I went to a camp and so when the council should comes in says Joey you know your points a drop night you can go to a camp and so I wanted to vote Florida

I love this yeah because they had a golf course that they worked on so I think I want to go there for taking care of their grounds crew I make rounds crew well they wouldn't let me go so they I got shipped out here to Atwater and Atwater was in a small camp like 100 people in our camp

camp here in california here in california and uh across the street was the usp which is like the highest level and in the usp they're at the time i think there's 1500 inmates and 700 of them were in there for life now when you're in the feds for life you die you're not picking up there's no parole there's no good time you it's it's old for you so there's no boundaries and I mean, they'll stag you for looking at cross-hap. So our camp is basically like a service camp for them. Because they were locked down every week. There's a stout.

You know, I'm not stacked or, you know, it's something. So, but the camp was like a joke. I mean, you're still incarcerated, but they didn't care about us because they had way bitter problems across the street. So, I mean, we had no fences. And basically it was a free fall. I mean, these guys, I try to, I pretty much toted the line because I didn't want to get caught with a cell phone

or any fact, and they get shipped back up. Because I went up to that, I came down from up there, you know what I mean? So I knew where I was like, everybody started, start camp. So you had a bell for, yeah. And so, I mean, they had cell phones. And see, at nighttime after they did the camp, there'd be like a three-hour, gap before they came to account again. So these guys would take off, run up, bus to feel, meet your girlfriends, have sex,

bring back food, cigarettes, you know, just liquor, all kinds of stuff. And then they would stash it in the walls. And so it was just a big party. You know, we'd sit up all night, gambling, playing Texas Hold'all, you know, and it was just crazy. and then the cops would come through about every two months and do a rape

because they knew what was going on but they have to sit or later have to sort of put a halt up, you know, so they come in and carry the walls out literally have a couple trucks pull up and they have the beds full of just food and just just liquor and all this stuff

and it was hard to pin it on people because it was in the walls you know what I mean? So how do you? NSG, you know, they kept it. And so the craziest story I could think of was in the campus,

how out of control of that is at about five of my friends that they, how stupid they got, but how you don't think, they got on Facebook. They're posting pictures because they had phones on Facebook in the prison, partying,

showing or drinking, and our job of time. Well, the police obviously monitor everything. everything, you know. So one day we're sitting, you know, we're all in there. And sure enough, they come pulling up, about six them come running in and arrest all five of God, you know, back up the chain and they went. And so I was in that camp for about five years. And then I had like a little bit, two years ago. And I qualify for what's called ARDAP, which is a residential

drug program, which will give you up to a year high. off of your sense. So I tried to be able to the camp. Well, they were telling me I could have qualified because I had guns in my case. And I said, well, I did it because the guns got dropped. But yet they're still mentioned in your PSI, which is your whole thing.

So it took me like six months of fighting it. Well, I finally got a class, but now I was only going to get like eight months off because four months that, you know, had passed. So then I got transferred back down to Longfoot. for that residential drug abuse program. And that really was a life change for me. It's really what turned my life around.

Because it's really an intense class. It's like eight or nine months. And you're in like four different programs. You have counselors that all day we go to a school, like school, where you learn basically about delusional things. I mean, you know, cognitive thinking. and why we do the things that we do. How our belief systems get formed?

Why everything that I did in life made sense to me? I learned why I made the choices that I made. I wasn't really addicted to the drugs. I was thinking to doing things my way, you know, and tidal and things I could do belief systems that are formed early in life, that were really direct our life that we're not aware of. And so it just was life-changing.

It may need to find who I will instead of being defined by my growing up in my, by my parents. You know, they put police systems that we accept it. For me, I had no consequences. I was open, but I could do what I want and not even worried by. Well, that was it true because the court landed me, you know, in prison for 12 years. So it was just life change. It just changed my mind. So when I finished a class, I got out.

I was released to a halfway house. And you get, I think it's six months you're supposed to do the halfway house. But after a few months, if you have a job lined up in a place to stay, then you could build it. You kept that out. Well, a good friend of my, a couple of my friends who I had known before to do this, well, stuck by me and what instead he was thinking of me a job at his school. car wash. He had like eight of them. And another friend of mine, to enter, you know, to this day,

he paid my rent for like six months. So I had a job and then I had a place to stay. So when I got out, Kelly, God bless the soul, he's not since past, gave me a job at this hour wash. And that I started my road to redemption. And, you know, I didn't play any golf for like the first year because I just, I came out with nothing. I mean, I didn't have a dime to my name. So basically I was working, drying cars at a car wash. Now, talk about a 1-8, you know what I mean? You go from being on top of the world

and then being on top of the world and drug rule to drying cars or car wash for minimum wage and try and survive, but I spec it out. And, you know, within a year, then I was managing to car wash. And about a year after, I said, well, you know, I want to start playing golf with you. And so I've been talking to how long, 12 years. About two years before, I mean, I'm doing all this drugs.

I'm in prison for 10 years. It's like 13 years, maybe for it. So I go down. I've launched a lot. I get a set of clubs and I practice. And I entered my first tournament six months later, the NCAA, the Valley Amateur Championships. And I won. And I won.

Yeah. And it brings chills to me because it's like, it was just like a gift from that. I mean, you know, I mean, really, this, these guys can play. You know, I mean, these, these amateurs still, that it gets flat up place. So I won in, and then, you know, like that article is written in about, here we go again, you know, back on. He's back. He's back. And so.

But let's take a step back. What's it like, like, pull it in? that boring, you know, turned the car off or is it a bit of, like, how am I going to go show my face to the country, though? Yeah, you don't think that, I mean, it's definitely embarrassed, you know, because here's guys that I've known my whole life and, you know, Joey in prison

and that they all know the story. And you know what? I can honestly say that the welcoming was, it touched my art. I mean, it could bring yours right, because I was welcomed back with Popano. But believe me, there was eyes on me. You know what I mean?

Yeah, they're all, you know, wanting to, you know, that guy looks just like, you know. Yeah, I had a lot to prove just to my family, my, you know, my friends, everybody, because, you know, is he going to really change, you know, is he going to change his waist, you know? And it's taking years to prove myself. And, you know, I think I have.

I take responsibility for everything I've done. And, you know, I'm just grateful. I mean, I've been playing. I was so about three, four or five, four, four years after that, I mean, that five years, and I won North Carolina, a super senior player of the year, you know, and I've been winning tournaments and playing good golf again.

And yeah, and so then I decided to write this book. And it just, you know, and what made me do it is, as I stake the book and the proling the kidney and after I got out and I've done what I've done but I had a heart attack and I did find

out to later on that I died on the operating table I you know I flatlined when they were doing the and putting the stinting and I didn't find this out till five years which was like four months ago

five months ago when I had a second heart attack and I had open heart surgery. So my cardiologist informed when he's reading this, you know, gone back, oh, I see that you flatlined and I was like, what, you know? And it really brought sort of abrupturized because it was like, wow, you know, I didn't reckon. And so, you know, there was the stories that I've been through in life and survived and

that go through that, you start questioning, well, why? Why am I still there? why am I being spared, you know, and you see so many people that get how are at that, and I've got two, I've been fortunate to live, and it's just like, it's to tell the story, you know? It's to tell the story.

And so that's why I decided to write the book. And, you know, it's come. It's getting close. You know, you read what I. Yeah, it's the journey, as well, as anybody who's, you know, made this far as podcast people to understand. but it's how are you feeling how are you feeling about it all about you're happy where you're at with i'm

definitely happy where i'm at you know um i don't chase the almighty dollar anymore it doesn't matter to me you know that to just show i call it joey 2.0 you know do it improve let me play my golf you know just let me play golf and live life on life's terms um i don't i haven't done trucks in 25 years i've got to last a wine you know Now and they are, you know, I'll do that, but I don't get drunk. You know, I don't, I've done coat or math or anything of that sort. I mean, that's, you know, I'm not, we'll never go down that road. Did you go through withdrawals?

No, I did it. Yeah. I mean, the withdrawals I went through is when I first went to jail. I slept for like a week because they're, yeah, and I was exhausted, you know, and I can remember I was just like all day I slept. I got to eat my meals to you, breakfast, lunch. You know, would they serve you through the little hole in your room? And for like a week if I slept because I was just, I think everything just been crashing down.

Weirdly, it seems like there wasn't any instance where you're like, yeah, I wish I had that to do over other than the one you called out earlier. So it happened to take stuff back from my golf and just, yeah. I think otherwise it just seems like you were on this path, this path of destruction. And it was going to happen. Yeah, well, wherever, no. and why they know that yeah what's your what's your relationship with your kids well my son is still pissed to this thing he i'll see him watch the golf course not and he'll be cordial say hi but that's about

it my daughter jovana who's my youngest going she we have a really good relationship but she her mother to this day uses the kids against me because she just holds them rants for what I get, you know. And Jovana, she should come sneak to the prison when I got to Atwater and come visiting, unbeknownst to her mom, who would probably, you know, would have kind of unglued as she knew it. So I've had a good relationship with her,

but a couple of years ago, she, I think maybe because I sort of pushed a lot to build that relationship again, and she just sort of, has backed off my third my middle job christina who's you know with sean o'herr by the way yeah by the way she um she's like stark child i mean we've always had a great relationship she's always good by me i mean i can remember she would when i first had arrested and she would come up and just be and cry how old was she was She was like 16, you know, and she would cry.

I mean, after a couple years, she, I think she was 14 when I actually got arrested. And in two years, you know, she would come up and say, why did you abandon us, you know? And I didn't look at it like I didn't, I was just a mess. I wasn't thinking, I was abandoning my children. I just was overwhelmed with everything that was going on, you know, and I didn't know how to handle her. and I didn't handle it very well, that's for sure. You know, I paid a consequence for it. So, Christina and I have, to this day, a very good relationship.

And Joey and the other two, Jovana, I know is cool, but for some reason, she's taken a step back to Joey. That's not him, you know. I made my peace. I've apologized. I've taken responsibility. I've proved myself now for, you know,

I've been out 12 years now, 11 years. and so I proved myself that you know you had to let it go you had to let it go sooner or later but I can't force it did you ever talk to your dad again well

story so when I was incarcerated you know my cab was really hard on Obama and when I was in Atwater the chaplain came up to me one day this about two years before I got out and said they noticed

I bet my father was stick and that he probably wasn't going to live, you know, another month or whatever. So they gave me the option because I'm in a camp. So they said, well, we'll give you the option. You could go see him now or you can go to his funeral. So I chose to go see him while he was still alive, you know. And I never forget. My cousin came and picked me up when we came down to the house. He was in hostess care.

He was in bed. And I'm crying. And I told him, I said, you know what, Dad? I'm so sorry for everything that I'm done. I truly am. I, for your forgiveness. I said, can you please forgive? Do you know what he says, saying?

Almost. Almost. And I just thought, wow. You know, what? And then he passed like two weeks later. Yeah. So, I mean, I tried, but, you know, but that's what I grew up with. I mean, he was, I don't know why he was so hard on the, it's, but he was. Yeah. Yeah.

What's the, what's the relationship with golf? He's playing, you know, I'm playing through, you know, I just had open heart surgery. Oh, four months, let's say, five months go now. So, um, the doctor saw me, he said, Jerry, you know, two months, you could go out, but a little bit. And so, I'll tell you a story, this is pretty good. So when he came into heart surgeon, because they have to prep you when they're going to catch you up. And it takes like a day and a half a year before you go when, they'd correct you.

And so he says, I'm going to take an artery out of your thumb right here. And he says, it's the best artery that we could take, you know, because we have to do this. You can't have a stint. it's really damaged. You know, I'm fortunate to live. And he said, but this thing is, he goes, you're going to have some numbness there.

And I said, like for how long, you know? He says, probably forever. So wait a minute, dog. I said, I'm a golfer. I said, brood of her artery. Yeah, I said, really, I mean, this is where my crew is on your luck. Yeah, my left can't ride here. And he says, uh, he says, are you serious?

You know, I said, yeah, did serious. I'm not like just a Sunday golf for you. I wouldn't tear, but I say, I said, I said, I said, I play golf competitively, you know? So he said, so you're a player to year. Yeah, yeah. He goes, I could take it off your leg. He said, but that's not as good.

It probably could be eight years, and then he said, you know, we can look at it in eight years. It might ask you for the rest of her life, but, and he said, but if I go in there, it's not, that Bain is not good enough, but they are, I'm going to take it in here. I said, you know, but he took it out of my leg. So I got, yeah.

So two months in, I started being able to pet, and then he said, two and a half months, your rib cage should be heel. I mean, you're, because, you know, they slice you away. And then they wire it back up with it wire. And then, you know, it fuses itself. And so he says, up two and a half months, he says, you could start chicking, but no sanctions. Well, yeah, you know. It's okay, I don't hear this from bunkers anyway.

No, no, yeah. Well, after 9, you know, like a week before 10-and-a-half months, I'm out to swinging seminars, you know, full bore, you know. I don't thought ever more than 80%. Yes, 80%. So I just start, you know, practicing again. And to this day, it's only been five months. It hurts.

But I just, you know, it's just, gosh, it's just, what I love doing. So I played some tournaments and shot like 82, 83, 81, and it was, you know, talk about being embarrassed, but yet I didn't care. I mean, I'm just grateful to go golf, you know. And so, but since then, my game's coming back, you know, I'm not back to my strengths coming back, my lengths coming back, and, you know, I'm striking the ball, I'm doing it really good. What's your gain one? It's good. Like here, you know.

I've had Zerajar Dane, okay? My last round, I did 14 fairways 18, you know, and a useful. Yeah, so, I mean, it's, I'm a pretty good bald striker. And I'm just, you know, it goes back to when I, we start going on a national level and you see these guys, every aspect of their game to spend. There's not a weakness. You know, the good chippers, you just saw it, the Walk Cup. there's no weaknesses.

They're great chippers. They're great out of the sand. They're great fighters. They're great ball strikers. And you have to have every part of it. It has to be solved. And I, to this day, I mean, I'm 69 years old, going to be 70. And I still, well, I hit 100 balls every day.

And I cut every day. And I cut every day. I mean, I put in a couple hours on that game every day. You know, and so I work at it. You know, it's not. Calum only gets you so far. You know, you have to put the time in. I laugh because that fellow, Sean.

Oh, here I'm like, you know, teach your son-in-law. I thought to work harder on my game than you do. He's so talented. I mean, you know. I mean, you know, but I laugh. I keep you up, Bob, because it's what it takes. You know, even playing in these Northern California, these guys can play in Atlanta.

They can play. And there's a whole lot of get golfers out there. And so my game's coming back. But, you know, I have to recognize I don't be 70 years old. You know, I've shot my age just last week, twice. And I just, just my week last week, that's really fun, twice. But I started at 62. So I've shot it at 62 through 69.

Six to three, four, five. That's good. What, uh, what aspirations do you have to FMG? Everything? Not that fun. I did have fun. Enjoyed play these tournaments, yet whipped on by my local, fellow players, you know, and I had my day still.

I can play, but, you know, it's good competition. It just, I just do it because, and I did it all along, because just had love for the game. It wasn't for the notoriety. It wasn't for the, everything that brought. It was, I have passions with off. I just love the game. And no one can take that from you, you know.

And it's something that I had since early in childhood. You know, if anything, I would say, All the alkylates that come with it on all that is sort of like a curse in it some way. Because, you know, people start judging you. People are, you know, haters. I mean, not everybody, but with it comes that size. And I didn't do it for it that operates. I didn't do it for the no to write.

I did it because I love golf. I just love the game. And with it, you know, everything else came with it. Fair enough. You have to learn to deal with it. But I just love the game. You know, 70 years old. I hope, I mean, I have, we have a guy out of here in Northern California.

He's 85 years old, and this guy can spell shoe art, you know. And it's, and it's like, that's an inspiration to me. That's something to look forward to, you know. And like, I think, I'm in light of 80 or 85 little long, still play golf, you know. What's your good, of course? Spy bus. Oakmont, with pretty, pretty. special.

Spyglass is, to me, is, yeah, it's good. It's really good. I mean, you know, Suckers Point, these, they're good golf horses, but spyglass is just special. I mean, because if they wanted to make it tough, I mean, like, really grow the rough, you know, and harden the greens, and it'd just be brutal. But it's just got everything. It's got the dunes.

It's got the ocean. It's got, you know, go back outside. inside 17 mall address, you get into the trees and it's just everything about that golf course. I think that's probably my favorite place. I love it. What's your little route? I shot 61 a few times. I never shot 59.

I came closer to him. I was 62. When I shot 62, I had a double bogey and two boas and shelf 62. So, but I never shot 59. I, yeah. But so 62, 61, you know, I've shot 50s. quite a few times. But, yeah.

Man, I'm not a guess. I can't mind how you feel. I'm fine. That's a hell of a story, I can't thank you enough for sharing it. Wish y'all best getting book finished. T.C. got anything else? What's your lesson for anybody out there that's going down the wrong path

or, you know, come back from what? Sure. I think that really, People just have to recognize that no matter how hard things get. I mean, there's always a light at the end of the top. You know, like after the rainbow. So you can give up and quit or you can just keep fighting, you know, and it's we can do it.

I mean, I get it. And it wasn't easy, but it was like, what's my choice? Go back doing to what I was doing it. Where is that going to get? So I just think that, you know, you have to just reevaluate what's important to you in life. and recognize what made you take that path to where they're at in this stage. You know, if they're not happening life, where you cross that path at? And what can I do to get back to what?

You have to define what's important to you. You have to make your own belief system. You have to really sit down and think, this is what's important to me. A lot of stuff we just do out of reactionary, you know, we do think about thinking, you know. And we all do it, you know. You know, go out with your friends and drink before you know what you're drunk. And then you're mad at yourself. At least I would get, you know, why did I do that?

Because it's just we do things without thinking. At least I is, you know. And so now I think I define who I am and what's important to you and I. And so I think people need to understand that we can all do it, you know, and don't let like define who you are. You define what you want in your life? Do you think there's an alternateist? time one, let's say you grew up different kind of place,

you would have turned pro and bored yourself into that? Well, I mean, today's rules, without a doubt, because this mill money and this money these guys got, they don't even have to win out on the tour. And they're millionaires, you know, and it's just stupid, the money that they have. That didn't, you know, when I had that opportunity, like Ernie George said, you know, and I had that opportunity,

You know, and I had friends that have played out there. It's a nice stuff. You know, you're out on the road 30-something weeks out of the year, living in motels, you know, missing cuts and going to the next one. It's not all fun and game like people think. You know, they see the winners. For sure. But it's far from that.

It's a lifestyle, and it's not for a year or two. It's your life. And it's not glamorous like they think. You know, I never forget, like, you know, going to, at the U.S. Open. And, you know, you just, who is Judy Furrier? I mean, I was an amateur. And you're just hounded by people for your autograph, for this, for that one.

And it's like, I couldn't feed this every week, you know. You know, I really, you know, no privacy, you know, guys, like, imagine, like, Tiger and Lori, these guys, they have no life. I mean, yeah, they got money galore, but, you know, you can't even go to a restaurant, enjoy a meal, you know. And there's a few. There's a few of them, obviously, that have made fortunes for it. But the other ones, people don't realize I have so many friends that have gone out there for years and years and still chase it.

And they've got nowhere with it, you know. Yeah. So I wouldn't have changed. I really wouldn't. Because I made that choice, and I'm glad I did. I mean, the outcome? No. No.

But I mean, it's all right. It's not all right. And no, we'll see. Turned out. well thank you for uh thank you for sharing it man you don't you don't have to do that it's it's uh you know it's much appreciated to it's a run through i'm sure some of it's very very painful to talk about but it's i think the ultimate uh the ultimate message you laid out there at the end is you know i really like that you're you're here for a reason to tell a story yet to you know provide some

some perspective for uh for others also perspective yeah yeah yeah i don't know that's a valuable valuable well hey we wish you all the best in uh at the golf game and and everything else. Thank you guys for let me share my story. Very sorry. Thank you very much.