No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1090: NLU Personal Golf Spotlight - Casey

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Our personal golf series continues with Casey as she shares her perspective on getting better, playing competitive rounds without holding a single digit handicap index, how getting fit led to some surprising choices in her setup, and her top ten favorite courses. Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://nolayingup.com/esf⁠ Support our Sponsors: Titleist Rhoback If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. Yes. I mean, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different?

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. back to the no laying up podcast golf spotlight edition yet again. Sali here joined by my guy, Mr. DJ Pi. Dej, what are we doing today? Greetings, Sally. We got another fun one today. We've all really enjoyed doing these personal golf spotlights getting to know, you know, hopefully each of us a little bit better in our backgrounds and the game. But, you know, there's more people on our team than just the five of us and all of them kind of have their own interesting paths in the game. And I think if you've ever been to a no laying up event, if you've ever spent any time on our message board,

The Refuge, I think one of everybody who ever has done those things, one of their favorite people is our good friend and our co-worker Casey Landman, who we're going to be talking to today about her journey in the game. I think she's got a great history with golf, a great path. She's kind of a ray of light, I think, in the world of golf for a lot of people. And so we wanted to dig into her background a little bit and help people get to know her a little better.

So Casey, hello. How are you? Hello, hello. Good morning, good afternoon. You know, I guess it's afternoon to you guys. I'm still on Pacific Coast time. I feel like it's morning forever and then it's just dark now as soon as I'm done with morning. Where are you going from today? I'm calling from Las Vegas. It was a really chilly 58 degrees when I woke up. Sorry, sorry, you know, snowbirds. But yeah, calling from Vegas. Just back from the NIT. No trips on my calendar. We're ready to just hang out. out here and hang out in Vegas for the foreseeable future. I was going to say, now that you live in a warm weather place, don't overly schedule yourself in the winter.

Like that's a trap I fall into all the time and I'm gone during the best periods in Jacksonville. But it is, it is cold in Jacksonville and fall golf is here. And you already know, Roeback is our go-to for polos, hoodies, joggers, pants, all of it, best fit, best feel. It's as simple as that the Roeback Delta pants, our favorite pants, stretch elastic waistband, game changer, gives you extra room for some. added comfort, maintaining the best fit possible. The fabric is smooth, is wrinkled resistant.

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They're so dang soft. I want to give a special shout, though, to this fleece. It was 35 degrees here, Jacks, this morning. So I wanted to wear this fleece on this podcast. My problem, I've put the heat on in my house, and now I'm dripping sweat. So I want to take this off, but I wanted to mention these fleeces, which I believe we have in our pro shop as well. They say no laying up here on the side. And as you get into fall, check out rowback.com, R-H-O-B-C-K.com.

Use code N-L-U at checkout for 20% off your first order through the end of this week. pants, hoodies, vests, Roeback has you covered. Dej, I'm going to throw it to you while I've removed this fleece. And I had a great time wearing it. It's not that kind of podcast. Casey, like I said, I want to get into

kind of your background with golf and kind of how you experienced the game today in a lot of different ways. But first of all, why don't you, for people who don't know who you are, why don't you give a little introduction of maybe a little bit of your background and how you got linked up with our kind of merry band here.

Yeah. I'm Casey. I've been along the NLU team here going on. We're finishing out my fourth year, which is insanity. You know, I, um, my background's kind of varied. I was going to, I went to school for audio engineering and like radio and audio production. I did radio for a while. I got out of that took a turn in a restaurant, managing a restaurant. Legitimately, maybe some listeners that might remember you from your radio days. My radio days, yeah. I was back in Philly on Y100 in the late 90s, and still in Philly to this day is the Preston and Steve show on WMMR with Casey Boy, their producer. Casey Boy is Casey Boy because I was Casey Girl. We both got hired at the same time, and they didn't know. They're like, we'll figure out what to call them later.

And, you know, I'm not going to say how many years later, they're still going to. on Casey Boy, Casey Boy on the air up there. But yeah, it did a lot of like overnight in Philadelphia. So if you were in Philly in the late 90s and you listened to alternative radio, you definitely, definitely heard me. Yeah, did that for a while, managed a restaurant, got into fashion, did merchandising at Bloomingdale's. Somehow, I didn't want to work at Bloomingdale's forever.

Went to Urban Outfitors because they're a Philly company with, with not really wanting to work in the stores forever, but I figured if I started working in the stores, I could probably talk myself into a job in a home office. I took some classes at FIT, got a job as a technical designer, which is basically clothing engineering, went and moved back to Philly,

worked there for a zillion years, left there and did operations and logistics and all kinds of shenanigans at a dance costume company. uh you know import export all all the like uh it was along that time i started getting uh really back into golf like 2015 when i was still working at urban and just hating hating my job i needed something to like force myself to leave especially in the summer when back east it's it's not dark until like freaking eight 30 nine o'clock so uh back in 2015 uh in order to force myself to leave my job on time at least one day a week. I joined a women's like clinic at a local golf course, like kind of halfway between

my house and work. And I had been playing golf like for my whole life, but like not real golf. Like I worked at the driving range in high school. Like I played a crap ton of par three. I didn't own clubs until I graduated college. You know, and even then it was just like, you know, I would go out to the driving range with like the sales guys from the radio station like they would all leave and go play golf and I'm like I'm going with you like I'm just going to come hang out and I played a lot of like put some money in a can par three stuff and like Vermont you know just just on on breaks from work and I don't know eventually all these varied things that I've done led me to really getting back into golf finding an LU like literally diving head first and I

I joined a freaking private club. I'm on the refuge like the first week. The refuge is like in existence. I found my people. I'm taking golf trips and, and my varied background in both broadcasting and product development and clothing and just management and operations kind of led me to like, I don't know, I was talking to TC and he was like,

I think we need somebody like you here. Like you just know a lot of things that we don't have the skill set of and we don't have to really teach you anything. You teach us stuff. I've got to hit you up for like, how do I do this? What happens here? So I don't think I've ever tried to teach you anything in all of your four years here. You know, I just try to be very resourceful.

And that's just always how I've been of like any job I've had. I've always kind of started from the bottom and just work my way up to the top, just like learning how to do stuff on my own. And it was kind of the same thing. It was like here. I was like, yeah, I can pretty much do whatever. you guys asked me to do it. I'll figure it out. And it's been fun. So I get to run the merch shop. I'm pretty much like the community manager. So everybody is dealing with the refuge and

online and roosts and nest and all that. That's like my bread and butter. Like the community of no laying up is really what drew me to NLU in the first place. After just listen to the podcast. So that's like my been my passion. It's just like how can we make people's relationships with golf like awesome and find other people who want that kind of relationship with golf so that's what i try to do you spread joy and happiness to golf anyone that's ever been in an event that you are at you will hear casey's joy reverberate across the court i love being an event just being like hearing laughter from two holes over it's like oh case he's over on nine got it okay yeah yeah yeah and you don't know if i'm laughing because i hit an awesome shot or a terrible shot

that's exactly right well i don't know very very backgrounds and here i am I feel like the events topic is almost maybe a good way to get into this. Because I feel like you, like you said, you dove in kind of head first to the community and to showing up to events. And I think I'm maybe projecting here, but I don't think I'm wrong necessarily, that that's a very intimidating thing for a lot of women to do at these events that are predominantly men, a lot of strangers. I think a lot of women can be very self-conscious, rightful, you know,

understandably so, diving into a situation like that. I'm just curious what that was like for you and why you think you kind of thrived in that situation. I'm a little weird, right, in the fact that I don't know, I don't get nervous really around people. And I just like go and be me and just not worry about like if it's guys or girls or whatever. It also helps that like when I worked in radio, it's a very male oriented field as well. So I very much used to being like the only girl.

in a lot of situations that I've been in my entire, my entire life. You know, for me, I'm super dork, we're going to go back to like when I was in high school and like AOL first came out and like I just jove head first into like communities like around bands I liked, right? So it was like I had been meeting up with random people from the internet for things for like 30 years so thankfully my parents were like uh like pretty like just don't do drugs and make sure you call us when you get to your destination right uh so for for me i've just i've always kind of been in more male oriented places to begin with and i just don't have uh i don't have that that

thing that makes me nervous about meeting other people or just like i'm like hey if they're there for the reason I'm there for the same reason like there shouldn't be any weirdness right so um it takes a lot of confidence of just like being like hey like we're all here for the same reason and nobody's going to be like god she's a girl I get I have never had an issue at any like NLU run golf event you know or NLU golf event with like being like oh my god a girl is here you know it's different than like when I used to go on vacation uh and we'd always you know go play golf and I'd show up to the first tea with like my husband and it's where oh you're never paired with another woman like ever like that's just like I mean maybe now but like 15 years ago like you're

not you're not on the first tea in a random city like with another and there's always two other guys and they could always like oh god we have a girl now we got to like not be assholes but like as soon as I would hit a ball off the first tee then they're like oh okay never mind okay you're good you're good you know so yeah I don't know for me it was just like, I'm not intimidated in these kind of things. So for me, like my biggest thing, like our first big meetup was like, I just didn't want to ride in the cart with somebody because it was very COVID-y. And like, it wasn't because they were a guy. I was just like, I don't know where you're from. But I've talked to, I've talked to Justine, your wife about this

before too. And I think it just is like in certain person's personality is to just go out there and be a go-getter. And I can see where if you're a more introverted person, it's a little more intimidating to do that. But I always just try to put my extrovert hat on and just start talking with people. And immediately, you're pretty much like, you have something in common with these people. So you shouldn't feel out of place. Well, for reference sake for the listeners here, what is, so you mentioned putting the peg in the ground, teeing off and then being like, oh, yeah, she could play. Of note, you crushed the ball off the teeth, like you drive it so well.

But somebody listened to this might say like, oh, she sounds like she's a scrote. scratch player. No. What is your, what is your handicap? We start everybody asking this question. What is your handicap? And how was that evolved over the years?

Yeah. So today at this moment in time, it's a 16 index, which, you know, it's still like on the lowish side for me. You know, I did get as low as like a 13-8 this year, which was like, whoa, what is this territory? You know, I played really well on some tournaments here over the summer.

But like a year ago, I was like an 18, right? So we've been, and two years ago, it was like higher than that. So we've been constantly kind of like bringing, bringing stuff down. And even more than the handicap index, I like to look back at like, what were my like average number of shots per round, like over the years? And I think like in 2022, it was like close to 99. It was my average shots per round. And we're at like 92 right now.

So it's like for me, I'm like being able to just shave strokes off. Like the index is the index. But like I know I'm playing better and I know I'm. I'm being, you know, I'm hitting the ball left, which is a good thing, right? So, yeah, you know, that index is good to like, because it gives me a number to like, no, hey, I'm better today than yesterday. But at the same time, it's like, I feel like I've been hitting the ball really well. And I've just been like messing off with like short games, which is like I don't practice that enough.

That like, even if my index goes up, it's like, all right, well, I, I, you know, I use some other tools to like make myself feel good about my game. I track all my shots and stuff, and I'm like, okay, your index went up, but, like, your average drive is, like, 10 yards further than it was, like, six months ago. Or, like, you're hitting, you're not missing greens short anymore. You're missing them left and right. Like, so you're getting the distance out of your irons, right? So, like, stuff like that keeps me motivated to, like, even if my index keeps creeping back up a bit, like, to kind of keep me on the right track and keep me out there and feeling good about my game. So I was thinking about this a lot. I've spent a lot of time with you recently here.

We've got to play together. The Roost Club Championship, we got to play together. Yeah, we got to win out at the at the Roos Club Championship. So I've gotten to play with you a lot recently. And I am, of course, painting this or viewing this through my own lens. Yeah. And I have a very hard time with managing expectations, trying to drive towards progress, keeping things in perspective,

all of these things that don't seem to be any problem for you. You seem like you are out there and you have struck the perfect balance between I want to continually improve, but also who gives a shit if I don't is a little bit of, and I'm just like, I don't really, I don't even know what my question is other than just like, how do you do that? How do you do that?

That's the question. Can you text me like how to do that? Because I, yeah, I hate myself during most of the rounds of golf I play. And you seem like you're having a blast. So that's a compliment and a question, I guess. A compliment and a question. Thank you.

I try not to take too many things too seriously. It's just causes too much stress, right? So we don't need to add stress into my life. You know, and I always just try to be the positive person. I play golf with a lot of people who are not, like, do not play as well as even I do. And I don't even play, like, particularly insanely well, right? So I've always just been, like, the cheerleader for everybody. And in turn, like the cheerleader for myself then as well.

but it is like little things where it's like I try to find at least one positive thing with like every shot you know give me like give me an example of that sometimes sometimes it's just like well it didn't leave the ground but we're 50 yards closer so cool it went straight right as people will see or maybe not see on the NLU Club championship video there were I have issues with some chipping of brown green That was a tough golf course for you. That was tough. But, you know, we're just like, okay, like we're just going to walk over there again and we're going to try it again and how can we improve on the last shot we did. And, you know, I tend to not let it get to me 99.9% of the time.

I just like literally just try to be like, okay, like stupid, like the Ted Lasso, like be a goldfish. Like hit the bad shot and then like, okay, cool. we're just going to hit the next shot now, right? Like, and even this weekend, I was saying to somebody, I'm like, every bad shot is not a bad shot. It's just a great chance for an awesome recovery shot, right? So I just, I just try to. I'm so envious right now.

This is great. I wish I could go through golf and life like this. Yeah. I just always have tried to be positive. I think that a lot better things come from, not just in golf, but in general, a lot better things come to you with a positive outlook on stuff than with with negativity so I've always just been the super

person all the time and and and you know those little things like where yeah maybe I shoot freaking 99 somewhere when I'm like man that score sucks but like if I go back through like my shots and I'm like man we we hit like eight greens like that's awesome like we probably shouldn't have had 44 putts but like we'll deal with that another day like you know like um so even even after in fact on reflection i always try to to find like the the one or two things that we did really well and like just try to like build on that feeling and and go to the next right so how does that uh how does that translate to tournament golf because that's another thing i'm always really impressed about with you is like you know like you said you're you're 16 handicapped

you're not you're not out there shooting 73 72 but you play a ton of tournaments you find A ton of like real golf opportunities, you know, places to hit, hit cups and post a score. And I'm curious how this attitude translates to that. Has there been any like any wobbling on that? Because tournament is a little bit of a different animal. And why do you seek that out, right? Like I'm curious. Yeah.

I look, I just because it's like a test, right? It's like I can do hits and giggles all the time and we'll have a good time. But like I love competing. I just love competing. Even, I mean, most of the time, I'm nowhere near the freaking top, but I don't care, right? Sometimes it works out. But I just really like, I like being around other people who also like to compete, right? So I feel like there's just, there's one thing where you're just out at the course and you're like messing around with your friends and like, I'll play well, but it's like we'll also have music on and I'll probably have a beverage and like, you know, cool.

Like, it's fine. A lot of laughs. But like, I love playing with people who are also. also really serious about it. And not serious, like, where they're going to be, like, mean and, like, not talk to people, but, like, serious enough that you want to sign up and pay money to play in an actual, like, state event or something, right? Like, so I, you know, why is that? I'm not, I don't 100% know. I played a lot of softball growing up. I was on, like, many, many softball teams. Like, it was like, the regular team, the school team, the travel team,

that this and that. And I just always loved games and, like, competing and, like, and that. And so I feel like I don't do a lot of like team sports anymore, right? So this is like my my team sport is golf and going to play in competitions and stuff with other people who are, you know, just doing this for fun, but like also want to have that competitive, that little competitive like, you know, knife poking at them. It's just like good. It gives me something to focus on. It gives me something to like train sports, right?

Like, I used to run a lot. I used to do half marathons and whatnot just because it was like something, I had something to train for at the end. So it's like it gave me like a purpose for like three months to like, all right, we have this tournament. We got to like focus and like maybe practice on and like get there and put a number of. So you, I referenced kind of your story in relation to this quite frequently. And I'm curious kind of what,

and this is a shameless working, working a sponsor into a question here into this. consider this, consider this, Nat if you like, but going through the fitting process with Titleist when we, when we got on boarded with Titleist of, I learned a lot in that process of,

of you going through that. I'm curious what you learned because I do think the moniker or the stigma of, I'm not good enough to get fit exists among a lot of people. And it seemed like there was very tangible things that came out of that for you, that one, improved your game if you,

I don't sure if you agree with that. And two, improved your enjoyment of the game. Yeah. Can you speak to that? No, it's like for sure. And it's funny because like I had got like the first time I got fit for clubs was back in like 2017, right?

So it was like I'd always just gone to golf galaxy or dicks or whatever and just bought random set of clubs. You know, maybe I would hit them in their bay. I'm like, oh, this is all right, cool things are going straight. But, you know, when I when I got serious again, I was like, let's like, let's go get fit. It was like for my birthday. I'm like, I'm going to get fit. Everyone, you know, I want to hit.

I'm club agnostic. Like, I don't care. Like, you know, everybody's like, what do you want the clubs to look like? I don't care. Which ones work the best? Like, that's what I, that's what I want. So it was fun, like, going through that fitting experience originally. And then going through title list, once we change, like, literally, like, having them not just look at me and say, like, oh, you're a girl.

We're going to immediately put you in, like, the T350s, right? like it was like no like they watched me hit a couple of my other ones they could see like oh my swing speed is a little higher than than average and like I have I have good what they call smash factor on things right so like like watching them like put some stuff together that was like hey we're not just going to start with like here's a ladies like shaft and we're going to it's an inch shorter and you know some light stuff and and and the biggest game improvement has that you've ever seen in your life like no they like literally like looked at the data and we're like it doesn't the club doesn't know who's hitting it right it doesn't know if you're a girl or a guy or an alien right

like so it's just like hit some balls and see what the what ones get the best results right and like for me i'm like i didn't care if it was a blade looking thing or or whatever hey if the t350s were going to be what worked that's what it would have worked but um i don't know and like even with the driver, it was like really tinkering with like a half inch difference in the shaft line. Like we kept just like, all right, let's go, let's start this short. And then let's add some and then add some. And then, oh, no, we got too far. Let's take some back off.

You know, like, and really working with you to find like those optimal numbers. I think like, what's it? I was hitting the title is three would like further than my old driver by the end of that fitting. So, like, you know, being able to, like, be with somebody who's really, like, actually paying attention to the stats and the numbers to, like, really dial you in was, like, was awesome. Because I really think sometimes I have girls who are like, I need to get clubs. I'm like, well, just go get fit. Like, please go get fit.

Don't just go and buy stuff off the shelf. Like, please. I don't care where you go get fit, but, like, at least hit a couple things and hopefully have somebody who's knowledgeable looking at some data and making some informed decisions. And I think if I may say, too, like the golf ball part of that fitting. Oh, yeah, that, I forgot about that was a massive takeaway, right? Again, it was like one of the things they said was just like, yeah, a lot of higher handicapped players or, you know, we'll say like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't want to play pro one. I don't want to play those because like I'm not good enough for that. But like, I want to play AVX, but what was kind of what came out of like golf ball fitting?

What came out of golf ball fitting there was like my number one issue. wasn't like length off the T or anything like that. It was holding greens. It was at my old club back in Jersey, like it was always kind of firm and fast. And I would look at the front number and the back number. And then like, it didn't matter where the pin was. I'm like, well, I'm just going to shoot for the front number because this is going to land and it's going to roll another 8,000 feet.

So like I started with wedges that day at Titleist and we're like, okay, let's hit let's hit a bunch of stuff with the pro v1 and with the pro v1 x and with the abx and it was like the pro v1 x just stopped like it was like it went up it went down it like maybe took a hop for a foot or two and it was just done and then we kept moving back we're like what's like every club i would hit as an approach into a green right so let's hit some seven irons let's hit some like freaking now even like my seven wood like i can hit a seven wood from the fairway up down with this ProV1X and it just fits and stops. I mean, it will still run if I don't hit a, you know,

if I hit a crappy shop, but it'll hit, it won't run. But like, I got so much, like, flack on the refuge and people are like, why is she playing the ProV1X, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, because like I need the ball to stop on the green. That's the number one issue that my game was having. And like, they could fix, you know, people are like, well, you're going to get a lot more dispersion in your driver. And I'm like, well, no, because we messed around with shafts.

and different things like that. Don't worry about that. I got that on lock. We've got that figured out, you know? So that was like, that was one of the big things. It was like, yeah, like I can play a ProB1 X. And it's like it doesn't matter that it's a super spinny ball. Like it's doing what it needs to do.

It's like it took me like a, you know, a couple months to be like, no, what the number is is the number hit hit that number. Don't hit 10 yards short of that number thinking it's going to continue to roll. So I was coming up short a bunch until my brain. really is like, no, the ball's going to just stop. Like, it's going to stop. You, uh, you mentioned being in New Jersey where you guys were for a long time, just, just outside Philly.

Uh, and then you guys moved to Las Vegas. What was that a year and a half ago now? Year and a half ago about, yeah. Uh, yeah. What was the process from a golf perspective of moving to a new place for you? Because you, again, kind of dove in headfirst, got involved with a bunch of different things. And I just think it's a very cool, uh, it's a cool story.

Yeah. So I, uh, When we knew we were going to move to Vegas, I did what any normal sane person would do. I figured out what was the local golf association, and I blindly emailed the president of the women's Southern Nevada Women's Association. And I was like, hey, I'm really involved in, you know, golf association of Philadelphia events out here for women. I play in a bunch of match play things. And I just basically asked, like, what are the opportunities like out in Vegas? like are there you know club teams like do you have to join a private to like be able to participate in any of this stuff like you know just just like rattle off some some questions and and rusty the the woman who runs the women's southern nevada golf association like email me back because she's like no one this is the first time ever anybody has like written an email like this and she was so excited that like somebody was so excited to move and get involved so again

if you want something and you you just got to go do it like I don't know like this is a so I met with her and you know she was she it was perfect because she was like oh we've got there's all these club matches so you can join a private but like there's a bunch of public clubs that also have like these club teams and stuff that you can be involved in

and we do like this whole they do like a rider cup of like northern Nevada Golf Association versus Southern Nevada Golf Association like 20 women on team like they do a net team and a gross team and it's like it's it's crazy uh so i uh so i tried to um i played in the qualifier over that last year like completely like played like shit did not make it but uh but like it was it was so fun to be like oh they have like all these opportunities for people and i you know it's hard sometimes i think i was trying to say

my old club i would say this too it's like you join a club and you're like great But you still have to do a lot of work to figure out how the club works and, like, how do you get involved in things? So it's like, I just, that's why I just email everybody and ask a thousand questions to be like, make it known that I want to be involved and then make myself involved. So, so I, yeah, I played in a bunch of like events last summer here that were just like open to anybody you who wanted to play in them, right? But they were sanctioned state golf association events. So, and then I did end up joining a club this year, which is like. Awesome, because everybody's like, what did you join? I'm like, well, there's no like architecturally significant type course or anything.

It's not like any prestigious course, but their women's golf association has 83 members in it. And I would say, like, half of them are like insanely competitive. Like, so like I won my club championship back in Jersey, but it's like six people played, right? Like here we have club championship this week. And as of Sunday, there was. like 33 women signed up to play in the club championship. So it's just nice to like, how do I not reach out and like kind of ask these questions? I've been like, where is like a good place for me to like land?

Like I wouldn't ever probably landed at where I'm at. But I did it basically because of this community of women who are like really into golf. So how would you describe like the role golf plays in your life? right? Because like for me, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I just crave trying to shoot as low as possible, getting out shaping shots like it in, and that's been instilled to me since I was like eight years old. Like, I just love, that's why I love the challenge of the game. I think about it all the time. You play more golf now at this phase of your life than I think is fair to say that in 20, 25 years ago or so. Yeah, for sure. Where does the

itch, you know, what is the itch for you and kind of what is, uh, I'm just so impressed too, with, like, how you structure, how you get your golf in as well. You are the best of any of us that, like, hey, I'm going to get, my stuff's getting done. Don't worry about that. But I got golf on the calendar at three, and I'm going to make my tea time. I'll be there. And I'm just, it's so impressed by that. Yeah, I, it's just literally, it's like, for me, it's twofold.

It's like, it's a time that I know if I, if I'm out golf, thanks, it's stream yard. If I'm at golf, I'm outside, I'm getting exercise, I'm doing something. physical right like so for me especially for working from home like i need to schedule that stuff out sometimes to make sure i force myself to leave my house right so like like even today like john and i were like okay like it it gets dark at like 515 like at 3 30 let's just run over and hit some balls for like a half hour because i think yesterday we did not leave the house at all we haven't left the house since we got back from arizona sunday morning so uh you know so it scratches that itch and I just prioritize it knowing that I need to be I need to go outside

and do some outside things but it also is like it's like where 90% of my social life is right is is is is golf it's like I have crazy golf friends then I have we have our people that we go to shows with and like uh you know go to dinners and stuff with and occasionally those people are the same people but like it's it's just literally like I have a group of girls that we can just be like somebody is like and we all work weird dogs. in different hours. So there's always somebody of like, hey, I grabbed a tea time at Paiute,

like, who wants to come? Or like, hey, I've got my friends, like, their work toasting some kind of charity scramble thing. Like, who wants to go? Like, there's just been a lot of opportunity since I moved here and with the people I've met

to be able to go out and play. And, like, I don't play as much here as I played in Jersey. And I think that's strictly because I lived a mile for my club in Jersey. Like, and it was so easy to just be like,

I'm going to go play six holes, like right now. now. Here I still have to drive probably 15, 17 minutes to get to get to the club. And now with our fading daylight, it's just not going to happen as much. But most of my golf still is Saturday, Sunday golf. And then Thursday mornings, we do our women's golf association. And I play Monday night in the sim leagues. So I have like usually four days a week where I'm like golf is just like on the calendar. And then the rest is bonus. How many rounds? How many rounds you play a year? Yes. Last year I was down. I only

I only posted 70. I mean, that doesn't sound like I play in a lot of weird, you know, like our, even our Thursday stuff at our golf association. Sometimes it's a scramble. Sometimes it's all shot. So, like, we don't post that stuff. This year, where are we at? I've posted 67 so far this year.

So I feel like we're going to get, I wanted to get at least, at least 80 posted. So I feel like we're well on our way to 80 posted rounds this year. What, like you mentioned, I think you're, game has improved quite a bit over the last five years what have been the the big drivers of that improvement or like where have you seen the most bang for your buck maybe is the best way to ask it i mean the driver for for sure adding length to that has just helped because i have less club coming in to a lot of things now i've started i worked as soon as i moved out here i found a coach

out here that um you know last year i was going pretty much monthly just to kind of get used to the you know it's a little different playing out here than then back different grasses different whatever but just just I wanted somebody to like go to every month where we could kind of track like hey did you forget everything you learned last month or like you're still on track this year I've only gone like three times because I feel like for the most part I've gotten to the point where like if I if I hit a bad shot I know I know what I did like which was like that was like the epiphany of like 10 years ago I hit a bad shot I'm like I've I have no idea why the ball did whatever it just did, right?

So, but like I committing to like going and like and really like kind of like honing in. Like I think we spent one whole lesson just on setup alone, right? And like that alone helped like, oh, now my irons are going like the dispersion went from like this to like this, right? Like you know, I when I do go practice chipping and stuff, I can see a noticeable difference like the next couple rounds. I'm like, oh, I can actually chip the ball well. Like, putting has been better. I switch. I was like blade for life and now I have like the mid mallet type thing.

And I do think it actually has helped my putting. So I think that was a equipment change there helped. But like I, and I, it's just confidence of like knowing I can hit the shots, like and knowing that if I just hit the shot, the club will do the work. Right. like so I'm trying I like really just like I don't know this is going to sound dumb too but I so I use Arcos like I'm a freaking Arcos dork right so just trusting the Arcos of like like when I'm playing non-tournament I'll have like kick the caddy mode on and it'll be like okay the pin is here

and you should based on all these freaking 17,000 shots you've hit in the system like this is what club you should use and I used to be like oh now I can I can hit a different club here and like it would be short or it would be long and like I'm like okay let's when I would commit to like using what the caddy told me to use on the arcus like oh I'm dropping two or three thoughts around right like and then I'm like oh okay like instead of being like I can hit a seven iron I but I have to pure it and it has to be perfect and to get there or I can be like just hit the sixth iron and if you like, you know, kind of mess it up a bit, it's still probably going to have enough juice to get where it's going, right? So taking the ego out of it and just using extra club

and like not worrying, like if that club is the same club that somebody else in my group would use or not, right? So, you know, that's been like an ego check. Like, especially this year, I got the new high launch, uh, 250s, which are awesome because they just freaking go right up in the air. But like, I haven't, I've lost a little distance, I feel like with that as well. So it was like the last couple months has been retraining me to just, just use an extra club. Who cares? Who cares that like two years ago your eight iron would go there. Just fucking hit the seven iron and get on the green, right?

Like nobody gives a shit, which club you used to get there. Just get there and two. That might be golf in general right there. I hate to keep coming back to like, you're a woman. But you are. And I think one of the questions I hear from a lot of women, certainly I've talked to Justine about this a lot is like finding an instructor and have you have you noticed anything as a woman I'm sure there are obviously female instructors you know

everywhere too but do you go to male instructor female instructor has it made a difference anything in particular you've looked for I've never had a female instructor um both the guy I used to go to in in Jersey like you know was a guy and he was the guy that ran that women's clinic And then there were a couple of us that he was like, you guys are kind of good. Like, do you want to keep doing this over the winter? Like, I have a Zoom play so we can just continue doing like lessons, like group lessons every week. And we're like, yeah. And then out here I see this guy Matt Henderson who's like, he does a lot of junior golf stuff out here.

I just like, I vibe with him really well. Like he's like very kind of instead of just telling me what I'm doing wrong, he's like, what do you think is happening? How do you think you should? What do you have to adjust in either face or setup or whatever? like do that and like I it's like puzzle stuff and it's like he forces me to think about it and then like I'll be tentative and he's like no you're exactly right I'm like all right good I know what I'm doing um but you know like I feel like a good instructor can teach anybody like if they're a good

instructor but like I have had to learn certain things like like this setup it's like I have to get over the boom basically it's like you can't swing the The globe from like out here, it's like stuff's in the way. Like you guys, you guys don't have to worry about that. But sometimes I do. It depends on kind of how the diet's been going. Yeah, exactly. It's like, and you guys will see this.

For the most part, I have the same freaking routine at every shot. It's when I stray from my routine, it stuff gets messy. But like, I basically like know if I get my grip over my, my boob, and I put my other hand in. And like, that's under the. other boob and like but like that was like something that a male instructor was able to help me figure out like it wasn't like i didn't have to go to a woman's instructor to find that i i think the most important thing about finding as an instructor is it's just finding somebody that you gel

with regardless if they're if they're guys or girls like ask around like that's what i do when i moved out here i asked a bunch of people like hey who's a good who's a good instructor like who regardless of if they're you know low handicap high handicap men woman, kid, whatever. So I think it's, you, you, this might be a bad question for you because you're kind of fearless on all of this stuff. You don't worry about, you don't worry about the stigmas, you know, you don't care if it's a man or like, but a lot of women, I feel like, are intimidated by the process in general, right?

I mean, I just, I just think it's like a thing where I feel like a lot of guys who probably played golf earlier in life and I've grown up of like, they know what to do and they get to the golf course. They know, like, you have to go into the pro shop and check in for your tea time. They know, like, you know, be at the tea box, you know, a couple minutes before. You know, they know all those kind of things. And I feel like if women, especially, I feel like a lot of women get into golf later in life, right? Like after they've had kids or like, or maybe they played before and then they had kids and then they're getting back into it.

But I just feel like there's not a lot out there that is like this is how you deal with the non-golf part of golf, right? Like, like, how do you make a tea time? Like, what is the etiquette for like, you know, on a tea box and stuff like that? So I always, I always joke that there's a lot of content out there that's like, or just people are like, yeah, let's get girls out to play golf. And it's like, cool. But then what? Like, how can we teach, how can we teach women how to, how to be confident in going out

and like making tea times and just going out and playing? And also all the courses are not designed for your gains in mind. Literally maybe what 1% of golf courses are at like this are built with the design of the scale of like how far women hit it or or younger people would hit it. Right. That's one. And you're going to make up less than 10% of the population that's out there too. And I think about this too. Or it's like, you know, I want my wife to get into golf and she doesn't really have the time to do it right now.

but, like, if I had to walk out, you know, down the street to the golf course and, like, go play that course left-handed, like, that's what, that's like the equivalent of, you know, what inexperienced people on, you know, male or female go through, it would be super intimidating. I wouldn't want to do it in front of anybody. I'd want to, like, go practice it a ton, and you don't have time to do that. And I just think it, I don't know, I think your fearlessness with it is, is something that I admire. and I'm hoping it can inspire some people as well. Yeah, and I mean, like we had a girl, again, from this women's clinic. Like, she had just started. Like, literally, like, the women's clinic was like her intro to golf.

And it was a great clinic because it was like every week in the summer and we started with putting and we worked back to wedges and we didn't get to like a full swing stuff until like the end of the summer. But like we would have instructed for an hour and then go play as many holes as you can before it gets dark. And she lived there. She lived on the golf course. right but and and for a while she was pretty intimidated about like just going and making a tea time and going but like the more she played with us and the more the more that we're it was like hey it doesn't it doesn't matter nobody cares as long as you're quick like if you hit the ball eight times and you're not to the green yet maybe just pick it up the next hole right like and just having the not embarrassment to do that but just like knowing like you're learning something and you got to go out there and do the reps uh to like fast forward like

you know, two, three summers later, and she's out there playing like 5.30 a.m., nine holes before she goes to work with like whatever random old dudes are out there, right? So like, um, so it literally reps. I would say it's even like reps with that. You just, you're not going to learn and you're not going to not be intimidated if you don't try it and you don't do it, right? So it's like getting over that hump. So at first, find some other girls that like to do it too, right?

Or find a, of course that's doing like these like women's clinics. or stuff like that. So I kind of find your little pod of people. And then as you get more comfortable with your pot of people, you're going to feel more confident on the course and you're going to have that, you know, I will say fearlessness or whatever to just like freaking sign up as a single and go play golf and just everybody's there to play golf.

They have that thing in common. Like they're there to play golf. So like. Well, and I think it's also like you're, yeah, there's rules to golf, but you're out there to enjoy being outdoors, enjoy connection with nature and the earth and whatever.

That's why I was telling my wife, you do not need to play the T-Markers. Golf's a lot more fun, the closer you get to the green. Go tee it at 150 if you want to. And even if you're playing with other people that are playing the T-markers, like your journey might be different.

And no one would think differently of you if you teed it from a different spot. If that's what helps you enjoy the game, just do it. And that's why I used to tell some of my friends who we'd go play and they're like, I'm like, hit a drive off the T-box because it's fun.

right like and if it goes not would be you're just going to pick it up and drop it where my ball is right and like we'll play from there or i would be like you know uh there's that gosh what is it called project 36 like that's a great operation 36 right like just start at 25 yards and play from 25 yards until you can break 36 on nine holes and then move back you know and then move back and then move back and then just keep moving back 25 yards and especially if i wouldn't recommend doing this on a Saturday morning at a really busy course, right? Like, there's, like, time and place, like, to learn how to do this. But most places in the afternoon, like, you can go do that easily, right?

Like, so, yeah, you don't have to, and if you're not in a tournament and you're not playing for money, like, or something like, who cares, rules of schmulls? You hit it into the woods, just fucking drop another one and hit it again. Like, nobody cares, right? Like, until you got, until you get to the point, like, I finally got to the point where, like, I would hit it a bad one. And, like, my husband would say, oh, just. drop one. I'm like, no, because now I really, like, I'm trying to learn how to do this for real,

right? So I can't just, like, drop another one and pretend it didn't happen. Right. So, but like for years, I played like that. I mean, I didn't, I didn't keep a handicap until 2018, right? So, yeah, I just think it's like the more reps you get out there and the more you get comfortable with being on the course and being around the course, like the easier is going to be to just go and play with whoever, whenever. So what's the next frontier look like for you? I know you're striving to improve all the time. You're doing all the right thing. You got your ear dialed.

You got your course. You got your instructor. What's, what's, you know, if we're sitting here three years from now, two years from now, what would be something you could achieve that would make you really happy?

So my, my big goal, the big goal is I want to have the handicap low enough, where I can play in a USGA qualifier for specifically, the women's senior am. Yeah. Hell yeah. Which is, which when I first made this goal, I'm like, we got like five years.

We're good. And I'm like, we got like a little less than two years now to make that happen. So, but that's like kind of been like my, my shining North Star is like by the time I turn 50 having that handicapped low enough that like it's like, now, I don't think I'm going to advance. What's the number? Usually it's somewhere in the 13s. Okay. Like that's what it's been the last couple years. now obviously it changes kind of year to year sometimes based on whatever usg is basing stuff on but

um i think when last time i was checking it was like 13 6 so when i got to 13 8 this year i'm like oh my god we are so close but we got to keep it we got to keep it there right well one thing is like i know because i got it that low like with the freaking soft cap and hard cap like oh i'm not going back up to 20 that's for certain so uh i got great news what i think it's i think just based on Google, I think it's 14.4. Oh, shoot. So we're closer. Okay. Great. So you've done it. You've done it. You've done it. I've touched it. I've touched it. We just got to get it like consistently. Yeah. In that in that realm so that I can just like sign up for these things and play on a qualifier. The other one that I think I'd be really interested in playing.

I think this might be the one with the 13 is the women's four ball. Got it. Yeah. Is, uh, is I think a 13 something. So I keep thinking, man, when I find I get like consistently down there, like, who can I tap to be like, let's go play and qualify? I might have to call Meg up from my Friday or something. Yeah, there you go. But like that's kind of, and again, it's like why? I don't know. Why not?

It's like a freaking goal. It's like, why do people want to run the New York City Marathon? I don't know. It's cool, right? Like, I think it would be super cool to play in a sanctioned USDA qualifying event. And like, who knows? If ridiculous things might happen, maybe we get to get to. go to sectionals. I don't know, wherever it goes next. But that's like the North

goal. So if I can get that we if we like I have no visions of grandeur. I'm never going to be a freaking scratch golfer. Like that's just I just don't have the patience to like practice that that long. Right. Like, but I just want to be like competitive in my own way and I want to like compete with myself and like I want to play on this ridiculous Ryder Cup Nevada team. Right, like six of the women, I think was it six, five or six of the women of the 20 people in Southern Nevada this year were from my clubs. So, like, you know, like we'll have that little like in between stuff. But, but yeah, we want to play in USGA women's senior and qualifier. Hell yeah.

That's so good. That's absolutely going to happen. That sounds like one of T.C's goals, though. Just sign up for U.S. No, no, I want to play. I didn't say sign up for. I know. I know.

I know. I'm making fun of T. Not you. Don't worry. Don't worry. A couple, a couple just kind of random grab bag stuff. Oh, yeah, let's go. What's the best round of golf you've ever played?

Like score-wise, it would, it was like, what I play? The Las Vegas City am this, this summer. Like, it was the end of May. It was at the Muni. I love the Muni out here. Shit, and I didn't put the Muni on my top 10, but the Muni out here is like, probably like, it's so good. It's like a perfect muni.

Um, but yeah, I just went out and like, I don't know. Like, I was making, I was looking at puts and they were just going in. It was like ridiculous. And, uh, I shot like an 82 and I think that's like my lowest score like ever. So, um, so that was good. The next day I, I ballooned back up to like 87 or something. We came in fourth. But, um, but that was like my best score around ever.

Uh, like best, like old Mac when we were out there for the abandoned trip in 22, like, it was just kind of like, uh, I was just. having a really good time and it's like all of a sudden I realized I was through nine holes and I didn't have any doubles. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And then I immediately doubled 10. But even like this past weekend at Dobson, it was like I had a round like that on Saturday where it was like, man, I'm just like making a bunch of like pars and bogeys, which is awesome. And like I think I ended up with two doubles. I finally, I've had the formula in my head. It's like if I have four or less doubles, we're probably going to be in the 80s. But if we get,

more than that we're definitely going to be in the 90s unless i'm having some birdies and with that so um yeah i don't know best best score was that that one but also like i played really well at the freaking state am this year here net division um where it was again same thing it was like i just felt like everything a lot of the pins were forward and they weren't elevated on the green like the greens weren't elevated so i was able to just kind of like lay back a bit and like hit that seven bumper on a seven iron really close like a ton of a ton of pins and that worked out well too and I just felt when golf feels like effortless

I don't even care what the score is but when it feels effortless like I feel like it's a really good round hard to find yeah do you have your stats handy I'd be curious and I didn't put this on your on your homework assignment for this but like how many how many birdies do you make annually

I'm just curious like what's a last year I made I think 24 or something and that was like the most ever This year I feel like I haven't made, you know, Goals Pod. I started tracking stuff really well at the beginning of the year. I can't even track how many times I go on the golf course because I just refuse to write it down. And I'm like, well, it's not all on gin.

But I don't know if it tells me, does it tell me in the, I don't know if it tells me in my arcos by shots or not. That don't, didn't need no. I don't know. I had one. 30 over three rounds at Dobson. Like that's about, that's about like average, I would say. Yeah.

So. Should we do the main showdown, Dee? Yeah, I think so. There we go. There we go. The question we've been asking everybody on the golf spotlights, it's an intimidating question. Listing your 10 favorite golf courses in the world that you've played, starting with 10,

ending at number one or, I think I didn't mind where I just, I'm not separate. operating them out, but these are the 10, if I remember ripe. So I don't put a, I don't want to put a ton of pressure on the order, but I want to hear your 10 favorite golf courses. All right. So I put, I put first on your Southern Pines, and I haven't even played at post-renovation. That was like, that was like scrappy, scruffy Southern Pines. And it was like my first like real golf trip, like me and my girls went down to Pinehurst,

you know, for a week. We stayed at like Talimore and we just like had a, you know, Monday through Friday. of like a ton of golf and um we played southern pines the last day it was like i had emailed the coordinator and i'm like can we just get like can we add southern pines in here like i don't care what day but i want to play it and i laughed because like my girlfriends were like not they were not impressed they were like like why can't we just be back at pinehurst again with the nice resort like and i was kind of like do you see the bones at this place this play it's like it's like trying to take sully to hide park i hate you guys

but it was like the elevation changes and like just like on teeing off here and the and the green is here but he goes like this in between like it's so cool oh my god I was just like blown away like I literally came back and I like was on the refuge going like this place is like the coolest place I think I've ever played golf so that had to make my my top 10 list in here and I still need to get back and play it now that it's been all you know shined up and pretty but um Mulraney, I've put in here from Ireland. It's like a freaking nine-hole horse on the side of the road on the way from like the car and it's like, you know, sheep all over it and like barbed wire around the greens.

Like you've got to like you've got to open a gate after you chip to go in and put. But it was like on the water and it was just like, I don't know. I just was like magical. We played it like in a drizzle and we were the only people out there and it was just like awesome. And I just keep always going back to that. So I'm like, I'm putting it on here, my top 10. I love it. I freaking love Paiute, specifically the snow course, as seen in a Las Vegas travel video.

It's like just pristine views. The course is in immaculous shape all the time. I mean, all three of the courses up there. The wind does some shenanigans. But it is like, I don't, I just feel like, I feel like I'm on like Mars or like tapamine. Like, I just always feel like I'm in another planet. it when I'm up there playing and it's I just love it a lot so how far is that like from the strip

basically so so from like the strip probably 30 30 minutes or so it seems like you're in another universe oh yeah like it's it's completely it's like civilization civilization nothing right so my old house here I was only like 12 minutes away because we lived up towards the top of civilization but uh now from from my new place down near the strip it takes me about 25 30 to get up there but it's it's worth it it's it's so good So then I put Las Vegas Country Club on here as well. And like the reason is because it really reminds me of Burlington Country Club from back home, my old, my old course, which then I put Burlington as the next one.

They're both just like, they're designed by the same, well, the same architects who reid did Burlington in the 90s, like did this course originally in the 60s. So it was like the first, like when I play there, I'm just like, oh, this green complex is like exactly like 13 back home, right? like and it's walkable there's not a ton of Vegas golf that's walkable and it's it's it's walkable and it's just like parkland and it's like you know the the west gates just hanging out there and it's I don't I really enjoy the course it's not easy it's like um it's a good challenge but it really reminds me of my my home course from home so we put that on here and then I put Burlington because probably the golf course I've played the most in my entire life and a lot of good a lot of good memories there it was like it was a great course

for like, uh, if you could play well there, you could pretty much play well in other places. So, um, which it was like, it was like, I feel like I was very lucky in picking a course. Well, I didn't pick it. It was a mile from my house and I was just like I'm joining it because it's a mile from my house. But I was happy that it was always in great shape and it was more difficult because like when I would go out and play like, you know, in match plays like or like, you know, cricket and stuff. Like I didn't feel like, like, like I didn't feel like, oh I only play this like cow pasture like straight course like I'm like we have some of this stuff too so um Pioneer's number two hard to be like DJ that round we played like at the

freaking Donnybrook in 2020 yeah my most favorite rounds of golf ever yeah I think I like effortless like 93 and I'm like cool I probably shot 93 that day too yeah we were just in all of Mr. Astrodupson is, like, trying to go under par there for a bit. But then I put Old Mac, of course. That, I just, that, of course, just gels with me. I love it. And it was controversial. Some people hate it, but I just like, I just like, everything about old Mac is like, I love.

So with that there, that's my one band in. I put Jack's Beach. Nice. Oh, wow. Hell yeah. That, of course, fits my eye. I just like, again, go back to like the first thing. I didn't know what the hell was going on.

I'm the only girl there. I'm like, I'm walking and carrying for 18 for the first time ever. And like I shot like a 37 on the front nine. But like even in, you know, the years after that, minus year or two with the monsoon,

nobody played well. The, like, it's just always like, again, it felt effortless. Like every time I play Jack's Beach. It was like, it really, something about it fits my eye. and my game played really well there. So that's up there.

Real quick on that front, I feel like I know you guys, you didn't really see it before they did the renovation, but I feel like you saying that is the ultimate compliment for what they were going for. Because beforehand, especially for like mid to high handicaps, it was not effortless.

It was a lot of force carries. It was water everywhere. It was like not a fun place to hang out for mid to high handicaps. And I think they made so many good changes. And that feels like a, Yeah, just a very big compliment for that to be one of your favorite. I really, I really do love that course. Jeffersonville in Norristown, Pennsylvania, the crown jewel of the of the of the of the of the

muny scene in the in the PA suburbs. If you haven't been to Jeffersonville yet, especially rich, their superintendent has just done freaking amazing things like little incremental things like year over year over year over year. And then they finally got the new clubhouse last year. and it's just like mind-boggling. It's like, it's like, I don't know. You know how like Dobson just feels like a good, a good like community type place?

Like Jeffersonville is now like where you just want to go hang out. Yeah. Like NASA Putting Green, they got track mans in the bar. They got like the course is insanely awesome. I encourage everybody in the Northeast go go play. I think it's still like, you know, it's not even expensive on a weekend. to go play there. So it's hard to get a tea time now,

but it's awesome. And then Karn, number one. All right. Carn's just freaking, freaking awesome. I could, I was contemplating how much does it cost to be an international living here?

But then I remembered I lived on the West Coast and it takes 8,000 years to get to Ireland. So that's a tough one. Vegas to go mullet is not our direct. I know. Yeah. But it was just like, yeah, otherworldly. I loved it so much out there.

It's an eclectic list. I would have expected nothing less. Yeah. I didn't do much research. I just kind of went like off the top of my head. That's good. That's exactly what you want. Yeah, I don't want, you know.

And it doesn't sound like a top 100 list either. You know, I'm sure there's nicer courses you've played on there that you didn't enjoy as much. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're fine. Cricket, it's fine. Yeah. well this is great give me this flash world we'll see how it changes yeah exactly there you go

that one might not be effortless no definitely not all right well i think that's going to bring us towards rapid casey uh really appreciate you you laying it all out there for the folks and uh all the energy you put in you know not not everyone has has been to one of our events or you know experiences the refuge in great detail but how much energy you put behind all that and uh i mean we got to know you through uh attending our events as well. And so you ended up working with us. And I, it's just fun to, it's really fun to work with someone that, you know,

loves golf in the way that you do and bring such a unique perspective to it. And we've always wanted to share that with the folks. And we appreciate you doing that today. No, I was, I was very excited to share my journey. All right, that's going to do it. Don't be afraid. Go play golf. Go do it.

That's the message. That's the message. Well, thank you, everyone for tuning in. We'll keep you posted on K. Casey's handicapped tracking. We sprinkle some stuff in there on our Sunday pod from time to time, but we'll keep you post on that tracking. You know what?

She does a good job of posting some of this stuff, too. I don't know if you want to blow up your Instagram or not. Oh, yeah. And here you can. At Chick-fil-A, pH, because I'm from Philly. You know, we change all Fs to pH. You can follow her there. Thank you, everyone for tuning in.

We'll be back here soon. Cheers, crack on. Cheers.