No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1147: What is going on with LIV Golf?

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Are we close to the end of LIV Golf? Join us as we break down the knowns and unknowns after a whirlwind 24 hours. Presented by Titleist. Looking to travel this year, check out East Sands Golf Co.: https://www.eastsandsgolf.co/nlu Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: https://nolayingup.com/esf The NLU email newsletter: bi-monthly updates on all things NLU: https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/subscribe Join The No Laying Up Nest: https://nolayingup.com/join Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. Johnny, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Lange podcast, Emergency Live Edition,

brought to, as always, by our friends at Titleist. Solly here, joined by a couple of my colleagues. We're going to have a guest here shortly from the left to right or right to left as you're looking at it mr dj pie hello pie man hello sallie good to good to be you know i haven't talked to you guys in a while it's good to train be with you does not stop it carrito neil schuster still basking in the glory of his round of augustine national just two days ago somehow sure hello neil put the kids to bed let's talk uh force majeure palace intrigue fired up gentlemen good evening man what a 24 hours it has been uh we're going to go through the timeline of things

I thought the show tonight was going to be different than I think it is now going to be with some reaction from live golf and some statements that have come out this evening. We are going to go through everything that has happened this past day. The reaction to that, the reaction to the reaction. We're going to bring a guest in to help break that down. And we're probably going to speculate a little bit on this pot as well, but we're going to do our absolute best to paint that into special corners and make it very clear that we are just speculating here.

Deid, do you want, where do you want to start with, with what has happened in the last 24 hours? And where we stand now is we record this 904 p.m. Eastern time on Wednesday, April 15th. Happy birthday to my wife, by the way. This was made for a very tricky birthday evening. And tax day, too. Maybe they just had a fat tax. Oh, God, we forgot to pay the estimates. Oh, me.

Sorry. Sorry, Sergio. We can't help you. Yeah. Solly, let me run it down. Let's, why don't we do just a little bit of what did we know, when did we know it? it, I think, is kind of the place to start because it's a lot of info. I think there's a lot of people probably getting home from work just like, wait, what the hell is going on? I get a news alert email from the New York Times that that Live is done.

That's not exactly true. It's just a lot. There was a lot. It was a breaking. I did get an email breaking news. Oh, no. New York Times. I mean, they get a little loose with it, but it's not quite the, you know, cable news breaking news.

You know, they're a little bit more real about the breaking news. That's interesting. Deach. Go ahead. Yeah, no, I got you. I think like most, like most stories, we're going to start on a Twitter spaces by the takesman is I think where this story originates. Ryan French, Monday Q

info, golf Twitter staple. There was a lot of rumblings going around about this last night. It was kind of, you know, you'd look down and see a text from like, hey, did you hear this? I don't know. Did you hear this? Are we talking about the same thing? Sort of thing. Ryan French was the first one to go public

with it last night. He said, I've heard from multiple sources that a bombshell announcement on Liv's future is imminent. He would go on the aforementioned Twitter spaces to clarify and say that, you know, basically he's got very good sources and he's hearing that Liv is shutting down. I've got everything from these people, you know, these are from people that I trust. You guys know that players didn't get paid today. The power went out because the bill wasn't paid. Employees didn't get paid.

Stuff like that. There's a lot going on. Things are not good. is a summation of part of that. Again, some of this is useful. Some of it is very stupid. Anthony Kim tweets out just a mind-blown emoji late last night. Maybe related, maybe not.

Maybe he's watching sports. Who knows? I saw Harold Varner's tweeting that this is crazy. But I think that was about the Hornets. You know, it's just kind of a, it's one of those, it feels like NBA Free Agency Day sort of thing, you know? Like, wait, what is that in reference to what's that emoji mean? You know, it's kind of one of those things.

But as far as getting back into the news, like this morning, I think the next notable thing that happened, James Corrigan from the Telegraph reports that live golf executives have been summoned to New York City for an emergency meeting. A lot of them were not on site in Mexico City yesterday. Such a good picture that they used here. Don't leave me. Please don't leave me.

Great photo. This, of course, coincides with Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund, announcing a new five-year strategy on Wednesday. As the New York Times wrote, the funds governor said that it would, quote, slow down some of its biggest projects as it focuses on internal quote, increasing the efficiency of investments. Saudi officials have also said they were looking to reevaluate some of their priorities as they look forward to hosting the World Expo in 2030, the men's soccer World Cup in 2034. We, of course, know what happened to our beloved line. City and Neome and how that

scale back. I know. So I do think, you know, I'm not an accountant, but if there's probably a couple dollars to be shaved from Livdorf, if this is the strategy. Right. I tighten it up a little bit. Where I think some of this, uh, hitting the gas came from. You know what, Dege? I am going to lean a little bit on my accountancy degree in my CPA to say, I am an accountant

and I think there probably is a few dollars they could have saved on this. One thing to note, print that. Orway Vision 2030 felt, uh, when this whole thing started. And now it's like, oh, man, that's kind of coming up to pretty soon, guys. After that, we've got the Financial Times reporting

that the public investment fund is on the verge of cutting support for live golf with an announcement coming as soon as Thursday, potentially. This, I think, gave a lot of other people licensed to just kind of keep going. Rex Hoggard, you know, golf channel broke in midday.

Rex Hoggard from, from Hilton Head was reporting that he's spoken to players and vendors who hadn't gotten paid for the last few weeks over at the Wall Street Journal. We had Andrew Beaton filing another report saying Liv is facing the possibility of imminent closure. His report wasn't quite as time-specific and offered a little bit of a caveat,

said exactly when Liv might close wasn't immediately clear as the Saudi's weighted decision. There were no guarantees that Liv would fold completely as discussions could change. Still kind of things are up in the air. After that, the New York Times files a report the PIF is on the verge of an announcement of its withdrawal

of financial support. The athletic kind of New York Times adjacent reports that the leadership team was first told on Sunday that they would soon lose their positions. Many of them already moving so far and so fast as to start, you know, seeking out other positions.

Golf Digest. Who could believe those guys? Had a report that Live leadership was looking for alternative funding for the league but so far coming up empty. That's a joke. We're going to be joined by Joel Beal in just a second here. All of that is against the backdrop that Livgolf has an event that's supposed to be getting underway tomorrow in Mexico City.

Yesterday, as we're recording this on Tuesday, we had press conferences, press conferences that were canceled. The media center was closed for what was later attributed to a power outage. On Wednesday, the league had a press conference with the fireballs where Sergio, said the players had not been informed of any new information or developments. And the pro-IAM went on as scheduled. Should I pause there for a sec? Laura Lumer tweeted as well. I was going to say,

Laura Luma started bucking on Twitter. You got, you know, cancel Christmas, Dej. That's exactly right. She said Saudi Piff has reportedly just pulled all of its funding for live golf. Like the tournament tomorrow will likely not take place in Mexico. Live golf might be finished. I believe that would be later countered for that.

It still exists. That is part of the day unfolding of news here today. Yeah, let me get to some of that other stuff that then happened. I felt like everybody kind of took, you know, maybe a two-hour break and then clocked back in and hit it after that. Jeff Darlington, ESPN, reported that Live CEO Scott O'Neill sent out an email to the LiveGolf staff kind of in the wake of some of the rumors about the league's future. This is an excerpt from that email, quote, I want to be Chris. still clear. Our season continues exactly as plan, uninterrupted, and

at full throttle. While the media landscape is often filled with speculation, our reality is defined by the work we do on the grass. We're heading into the heart of our 2026 schedule with the full energy of an organization that is bigger, louder, and more influential than

ever. Just a little bit of Neil, you can relate to some of this, I'm sure. The life of a startup movement is often defined by these moments of pressure. We signed up for this because we believe in disrupting the status quo. We faced headwinds since the jump and we've answered every time with resilience and grace. What about grace?

Now we answer by doing what we do best, putting on the most compelling show in sports. He also said the noise you hear is simply the sound of a movement that is working. Embrace it. We are pioneers. And while the road isn't always smooth, the destination is worth every mile. lives Mexico City event is scheduled to tee off tomorrow at 1.15 p.m. He also signed it off on Wednesday. He signed it off, say, let's go out and show the world by Live Golf is the future of the game.

It matters. You mattered. Now, let's go win. He almost stuck the landing there. Yeah, some tense issues there. Some past tense. Yeah. Huh. Okay. That's interesting. Just a couple other ones before we get to our guest here. Evan Priest said I've spoken with Live sources with knowledge of operations.

and operations will continue for 2026. There is no change. Chris Heck and Scott O'Neill are both on site in Mexico and then Brett Bear noted, noted golf enthusiasts. And graduate of the mayor of school. That's right. That's right. Got to shout that out. Alumni club with Neil. Basically came on Fox News and said something very similar, said, two sources that I know know the inner workings of the decision. Tell me the Saudis will fund live golf events through the end of the season, which means that the contracts, TV deals. Tournament venues, they will all remain

funded. All other decisions about unwinding live or merging it with other tours. We'll follow that, but sources say the Saudi funding will definitely come to an end at the end of this live season citing a change of priorities. So just to recap, it was a big,

everything is stopping immediately and now it kind of seems like it's morphed into a fairly accepted everything is stopping at some point, but we are continuing for the near future. Is that how you guys understand it? Yeah.

2026 is not 2030. That's how I understand it. Yeah. Scott O'Neill's statement does not include, he was saying as of last week in Augusta that they're funded through the year 2032. His statement to everyone did not include that same phrasing here today.

There's so much smoke here. And we're going to bring Joel in here shortly to help break some of this down as well. But like this wasn't just like crazy off the wall your wrong reporting going on today. I think there was a lot of like seeing through the smoke trying to figure out what it actually literally meant. I originally I was like man I did I started dropping in the middle of a season would be wild. Like Mexico not happening would be a very wild exit.

But also thinking just like isn't it also weird to kind of play out the rest of like a lane duck season? And we can we can break some of that down. But it's now a good time to bring bring in our shirt. Let's do it. Before we start speculating, I feel like we can get as many facts and this. many good analysis in on this before we do our normal thing. But Joel Beale from Golf Digest, welcome, and how is your day today? Interesting. Yeah. It started around 4 o'clock yesterday, and I think this is a good background for folks to know because the

master's hands down is the most gossipy event of the year. Like you have fewer who are desperately want to act like they're in the know. So they try to turn every little thing they know into like a salacious just tidbit. It's kind of charming but also really gross. Coming off the heels of Augusta, this is something that just went, you know, went south. Like it was just a couple of years ago, right, when we were at heritage and people thought Rory was going to live. So I thought it was kind of in that same vein, but I sent a few field out just to be sure. And within the first like two hours, and then I had like 60 texts and a half a dozen phone calls and became pretty clear that this wasn't just a game of telephone.

And when someone like this happens, you're not running with one or two sources. The fallout for getting this wrong could stick with someone forever, right? So I want to say that because I think you just hit on a good point. There's so much smoke out there, especially now as hours have passed, people are wondering, it was just, was everyone just kind of running with something? And I think we know enough now that's not the case. And I want to actually shout out one group that I think it did it right, which, as you mentioned earlier, the athletic heads, riders, Brendan Quinn, Brody Miller.

or Gabby Herzig. They broke this down from multiple angles, including that the live executives were told at the masters that their jobs are going to be eliminated. And I can tell you as colleagues and friends, like they had a lot of voices in that, all of which had authority. This wasn't just rumors. And then just as importantly, separately, the New York Times, which owns the athletic, but for those in the other, like, the newsrooms don't connect. It's really frustrating if you're involved. They did their own piece from like the business and news side. And it's clear that, unlike the athletic these were weren't golf sources. So I'm I'm sure it's very frustrating for the athletic counterpoint at the same time. The fact that they ended up at the same point kind of shows

this isn't just one person and a rumor went wrong. Like this is coming from a lot of different places and everyone is kind of coming to the same point that the end is near and it's just kind of a matter of when. Did you notice anything? I guess from from Scott like again I went to started doing bedtime with my kids and came back to a totally different world of like, oh, we're playing tomorrow. Everything's fine here. We're good here. Anything to read between the lines you think in kind of what

live statements sounded like or Scott O'Neill's statements sounded like versus, you know, again, I came back to all the bots right back in my mentions when I, like, three hours earlier I thought we were done with this world. And are they going to keep this facade up, I guess, for the remainder of the year, do you think that like this thing is still business as usual? Oh, yeah. And the two biggest indictments, I think, came from, you know, one was yesterday. for whatever you want to say about O'Neill, he's extremely good on communication with his team,

both players, agents, everyone on staff. It was radio silence yesterday for most of the day. And I think that is what spooked a lot of people, and that's when you started to see stuff start to come out last night because once he wasn't getting back, I think that was the first sign something was up. And then that email that O'Neill sent to staff this night, I think on the surface, it seemed like a rebuttal when I think it actually signaled the opposite because the focus was, as you mentioned, Sully, just 2026, not the future. And instead of saying the reports were bogus,

which it seemed like he started to go with that speculation. Instead, he played the, you know, startups are defined by moments of pressure, which again, incredible. They keep referring themselves as a startup. I think coupled with, and the most important part to me, honestly, was the, as you mentioned, the switch and PIF strategy, going domestic, you know, they're stopping the funding of these global vanity projects. The live is definitely a very visible casualty of that. The fact that they've now struck. out three of the last four off seasons. That's definitely sticking with them. Obviously, a big aberration in Iran, but it was an aberration. This all happened. This vision was already

in place before the Iran war started. And that conflict has just accelerated everything, especially with all what's going on the streets and all the oil closures. Suddenly, you know, the financial cushion for live, it evaporated within a month. I have no choice but to laugh. It just straight from like the massive global implications going on around this. Did, did any, I guess, was there any reporting involved in this that, you know, as you're, you're the journalist here, right? Anything that did go wrong in the process here of how this was reported by anyone in particular, anything that stick out to you to say, you know, it felt like there's a wave there for like an hour of, oh, man, all of this reporting

was wrong. But if you actually sift through it, it's like, well, wait a second here. This actually checks out if you go back through this. I'm curious if you had a similar reaction. Yeah, I think. A lot of people took, you know, an announcement is imminent to mean live is done without, you know, obviously there is a correlation between funding's been cut off to live as ceased. I think somewhere in earlier today and then just very reports just kind of got, I don't know, coalesced together. And all of a sudden it was live was ending this week.

You know, from the start, it sounded like the earliest that anything could happen was in weeks. And then suddenly this got accelerated to possibly today as early. But even then, though, I think that was more, like there was no individual report, at least actual journalists, you know, the aggregation, I think, is where maybe this gone, went wrong a little bit. But I think the wording was actually pretty solid all the way around from everybody. And again, just to give people a little background, on a story this big, you usually have a legal team involved to make sure, you know, because Liv has proved to be litigious, not only with PJ Tor, but sometimes behind the scenes, you can't get someone like

this wrong. So knowing that the people who've reported this and at least were journalists, I don't think they got anything wrong. And what Liv is kind of put out, that business is usual, I don't think that has any type of conflict with what was already reported. I'm curious, you know, you wrote a book last year, right, about kind of Gulf Civil War and how, you know, some other things that fit into it. And you've done a lot of reporting on Live in general. I wonder if you could just characterize what it's, what that's been like. at this stage in the proceedings because I feel like we're so focused on the PJ tour and I feel like such an outsider trying to report on any of that stuff just because I haven't really been to

the events. I don't know a ton of the people involved. I'm just curious what it's what it's been like for you particularly in comparison to the rest of pro golf. Yeah, I think the one thing that kind of sticks out and I think it's lost in our release golf coverage that is kind of the whole spine of the story is that as a soft power exercise, Liv golf already accomplished its mission. You know, before Liv announced a single player sign, they had already locked up Donald Trump's bedminster courses of venue. And, you know, within a month, D. Rout got added to that. And then next year, a third property in D.C., I believe, was added. So, you know, they basically built their tour schedule on this one guy's real estate portfolio.

It wasn't really nuanced, right? And it was because the Saudi looked at Trump, after he lost at 2020, which I think is important, and calculated that he was still a very valuable asset worth cultivating. You know, he wanted legitimacy and professional golf at the time. You know, remember, it wasn't after 20, after January 6th, you know, the PGA dropped them. All the other five families wanted no four or five was one, any part of them. He was looking for anything he'd get and Saudi Arabia gave him that. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia kind of needed the political cover in America to make this work. It was a clean trade.

You know, they also did, Sae used to the calculus that Trump did return to power. All of a pretty solid relationship they had with him and his. first term probably be a lot better in the second go-around. And I think you've seen that with some of the Saudi-U.S. relations, especially the investment endeavors. So when you're trying to understand why it existed, I know we've used the term sports watching a lot and kind of pointing to other things, but like, if you're wondering why they spent $5 billion and why they kept hemorrhaging money, you know, you have to hold all that in context because this was never purely a golf investment. It was a relationship investment. And now that that money has started run out and that the

politics and dramatically shift it. Not only in the Middle East, but, you know, our political land state. I think you're now starting to see you when the transaction is no longer worth making. And that, you know, has a little bit to do with what you're seeing right now of why this is a sudden about face with Liff golf. Joel, one question for you on that, because I agree with everything you just said. But if that's the case, this is such a sloppy exit. And you say, like, they've accomplished everything they want to accomplish. but if it is a brand exercise,

it's like, man, get the exit, the last impression's important. Is there any truth to, I've seen it swirling around, but not from maybe any credible sources about, are they trying to use a force majeure clause? Or like, because otherwise you'd think they would,

let's play it out to the end of the season and they'd have the messaging. Like I just, this all feels a little rushed and sloppy right now, and I'm curious if you have any insight on that. It's definitely rushed. You have to remember, this wasn't coming directly from them though, right?

I mean, this honestly started with Ryan French. And if Ryan doesn't come out initially last night with his tweet, there's a chance Liv can bring this to the table in their own terms. Now, granted, a lot of other stuff was percolating, but like you needed the spark there, and Ryan provided that. So they kind of lost control the narrative. I agree it is sloppy. There's also not a really good way to exit this, right?

Like, it's hard to, it's hard to claim success if you're ending this now, especially with Brooks leaving, with Reed leaving, the fact that the dischambo negotiations have been a nightmare by all accounts. Like, this wasn't going to end well if it was going to end. So I agree with you. It's coming off really bad. I just can't really envision a way that would have come off great either. On that timeline, though, I mean, I guess we were kind of all hearing that this was the talk of kind of golf behind the scenes as of like. There was something happening prior to that tweet going out that is what I think seems to be the sloppy part.

right of there's something percolating under there that i think to neal's question was wouldn't this make more sense to do in the off season if it was going to be a plug pull that's where i'm like yeah i said earlier but this was kind of back and forth on like it something has to be dramatically wrong for them to pull the plug midseason but now i think we're also i might ask you to speculate a little bit on this part but if i'm if i'm a live golf player right now and i'm just like straight up if i'm john rom or bryson and i'm saying this league might not exist next year as it stands right now based on a lot of reporting my the more i play out this schedule the longer my suspension is going to go for my chance to return to the pga tour yes i'm

going to get paid quite handsomely to stay but are we in a situation now where we have this kind of lame duck year that what other than the immediate payments that these guys are going to play for in the next eight events what is the reasoning for these guys to want to tee it up and still kind of tote the party line i think you just hit it and i believe Rex at Golf Channel mentioned that a few players even considering not showing up tomorrow because if they all the, you know, it is worth saying that the Patrick Reed one year suspension is not just like the paradigm. Like there are a couple suspensions out there that could be multi-year, but assuming that

at worst, the guys have one year, all of a sudden, if you don't play tomorrow, your timeline starts, you know, next March rather than having another month and not coming back after the master's. It'll be interesting to see that happens the case. I don't doubt those conversations are happening. just have a hard time right now seeing that come to fruition. But yeah, I'm with you on the time. I think it's also worth mentioning, though, that like if leadership truly feels like they're about to exit, they're making calls already to find their next job. And I think that's partially,

I know personally one of my sources, that's how I found out, was through an executive who was already looking about. So without knowing other reporters have kind of gone through, who they've called, or what doors they've knocked on, I imagine some of those sources are probably double cross at some point. But yeah, it's it's a sinking ship, right? Like once people are looking out, I mean, if there's been one through on the last five years, it's that people are only look out for themselves in professional golf, unfortunately. And I think that applies to your. So yeah, it's definitely sloppy. It's not coordinated. But if people are trying to get off, like, of course, it's not going to be coordinated. Joel, we let you let you get out of here. But I'm curious kind of what, what happens next

next in your mind. What's your, what are you looking for as far as, you know, next, next, next info, next shoot a drop? What's the, you know, do you do envision this being something that happens, you know, we get a bunch more info in the next 24 hours or is this feel like more of a, let's just play out the next eight weeks, you know? In the next week, you will see some sort of announcement from PIF, maybe talking about a transition that they're pulling funding, but they still support Liv. And you'll see some type of statement from Liv saying they're looking at our investment. From what we have been told, that is actually like going, I don't want to say well,

but like they are like, it's a good thing to note about O'Neill is that he had 15 years experience in the NBA in New York and Philadelphia. And that's in Philly also crossover in the NHL. There's a pretty substantial New York Wall Street stable he's built with this time at Madison Square Garden. He also has relationships with Josh Herrit and David Blitzer and those two guys alone could probably put the bill with Liv. so far nothing substantial on therein but like he also hasn't been given a hard nose I'm told either I think the next move for him is starts to look internationally you know people put this stuff of money to foot live they're not dumb you know they see live for what it is and you know just as importantly what it hasn't been but this isn't just because Piff pulls out there's going to be still a little bit of runway for live to see if it can get someone else in I don't see that happening but I don't think you're going to see just because Piff pulls out live is immediately done

So I think we're going to have this kind of low, long burn over the next couple of weeks. But I do think the next shoot-a-drop will be PIF officially pulling out of future funding. Do you think there is any, sorry, we false started you there. This is my last question. But is there any other off-ramp with Piff and Live combined in terms of transition into something with the DP World Tour or the Asian Tour or, you know, this live thing may not be. going the distance here, but Piff clearly wants to be involved with golf. I would imagine that would continue. But I'm curious if you see how you kind of see things unwinding potentially.

Speculation I know I'm asking here. I think since that White House meeting went south last spring, the DP World Tour has been the biggest wild part in all this because it's no secret. They're not exactly happy how the strategic alliance has played out. They want more events on European soil. They want to stop being looked at as a feeder circuit. or, I mean, at this point, a lot of people view them as the third league in the world.

They want something from the PGA tour and more than just, you know, fiscal help. Given they're the ones that allowed Saudi Arabia into this ecosystem in the first place, and I hate every time I use the ecosystem, but that's unfortunately the nomenclature that we use. But I still think it's not impossible. Guy Kenning, and I'm sorry, I'm the other thing I'm working, Guy Kennings is not, he is very aware of what his membership feels like, that they turned down that PIF money years ago, only he see that PIF money, the PGA Tour tried to partner with that PIF money. He knows it's an easier sell-out to his membership if it ultimately helps the tour. And I think the reason that's important is under ROLAP, I think there is going to be a push to bring the European Tour more into the fold, have more synergy between the two circuits.

If that doesn't happen, the PGA Tour very much understands that DEP World Tour can go knocking on the side door and bring him in. I think the reason that's important is if that PGA DP World Tour stuff doesn't come in fruition, it would be kind of foolish to say Saudi Arabia is just out. So that's something to keep an eye on. From everything I understand, I think Guy does want to work with the PGA Tour, but ultimately he is beholden to his players and he knows how they feel after the last administration kind of did them wrong. So I think that's the kind of, if you're looking for any type of machinations down the road, that's the want to keep an eye on. Very, very, very interesting. Joel, this was fantastic. Really appreciate you jumping on late. I know you're in a good mood because our Reds won tonight. But thank you for spending some time with us. And we'll definitely be consulting you in the future on all this stuff.

And I want to say no more speed columns. That was, that was mean-spirited, man, giving up on Jordan Spee. I got some really, really meaning else. Not for me. Not for me. So I did have to point out. I got this in the mail yesterday from someone. Someone sent a Joe Evano as Jesus. Uh, photo behind me.

Uh, for the pod. Uh, probably sacrilegious, but only one of those guys had a 400 OBP. So I think we're going to allow it. I think he's just a doctor back there. But anyways,

thank you, Joel for joining us. Greatly appreciate it. Have a good evening. Uh, I want to give a shout out to our friends at Roeback. It is outerware SZ. And DJ just told me that he just got the Delta looper pants, which kind of just melted my brain.

This is all we've been talking about. I've just been wearing shorts all winter. I know. We've probably, I got a new pair actually right here sitting like a brownish color. I got the new performance crew as well just came in the mail. This was the first thing I put on this morning. So I want to give a shout out to them. They got the Fulton performance vest.

We've talked a lot about that. They've got new, the Brookline vest is the new lightweight one. They have the Highlands hoodie. They've got so many great options. Roeback.com. You can filter through, you know, you can flip through all kinds of amazing stuff that they make. They make great polos, make great hoodies, make great pullovers, crew necks, you name it, shorts, pants. Roeback.com, R-H-O-B-A-C-K.com.

You can use code N-LU, get you 20% off your first order through the end of this week. Polos, hoodies, shorts, whatever you need. Robax got you covered. Roeback.com code N-L-U 20% off. I was, you know, again, that was super informative. It was great. That was awesome. Shout out to Joel.

Nice to bring a professional in here. I learned a lot there. I think it's also crazy in today's golf world. You've got to be able to break down what the blockade on the straight-off Ramos means. And also, like, explain like Rory's draw. He hit off the pine straw. In that way, since we were breaking down congressional hearings two years ago, man. I mean, this is like, this is it.

One thing, can I say one thing that really stuck out to me, him calling out Blitzer and Josh Harris, those guys are already getting into golf with this source golf play. it's a multi-channel network that they've taken over, like they're going to be running ads for Bryson's YouTube channel. So that was a really good call-out of like, okay, I've already heard about these guys getting into the YouTube golf space. I could see Live,

the DP World thing is obviously like, okay, that makes the most sense. But then you think about it, a transition, I'm speculating here. It's like, you know, does this turn into Bryson bring in a few of the boys along

for the time being to, you know, make breaking 50 videos. You know, if you're Why wouldn't you just want Bryson? Like, is that a take? Like, I think the Bryson contract plays here, right? I mean, we, his contract is up at the end of this year.

He's got eight more events left. Like, they're, you know, do you, do you ride this thing? Like, it's a huge decision and commitment they need to make as to whether or not they're going to offer him, what, 400 million, 500 million? It's going to be more than ROM got in the last one. And like, do you commit that plus on top of what else all the other contracts? you'll need to kind of extend there for all of that. This is again speculation, but if I had to guess as to why this is breaking down right now,

it's that Bryson's probably pushing the issue a little bit, and they can't wait until the end of the year to do all the negotiating, figure out, and let him hold them hostage and stretch all this thing all the way out. Like their long-term planning is really hard to do without Bryson, and I would have to imagine that has to be playing a factor in this. And that's why I asked about the force majeure thing, because I'm sitting here the last couple hours trying to think like, why is this, why now? And it's like, are they trying to, you know, use this war as a chance to get out of contracts?

But then I'm like, that gets so messy because they're obviously going to get sued. Rahm's looking for the other half of his payment. Now we got depositions. I mean, talk about a soap opera. It's just sloppy, man. If this whole thing was, you know, to, I don't know, make the Saudis look like good on the world stage. Like, this is the, it's like, you just did. You're not sticking the.

landing here, I guess is what I'm saying. When people are like, oh, they already accomplished what they want to accomplish. Like, no, you got to stick the landing if you want to accomplish that. They're hitting the shots, though. They are hitting the shots, bitch. You're damn right about that. You might be in Raised Creek, but they're hitting the shots. They're going after the pit.

They compress the golf ball for sure. That's right. I did get a kick out of John Nucci's tweet to set today. He said, if Liv folds abruptly, as reports indicate, the good news is that players can file breach of contract claims against the Saudi public investment. been fun in the courts of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Yeah. I think it me as well as if you're,

you know, if you're packing up ship, you're, you know, packing up shop and you're, you're still owed half your contract. Like I just, man, I don't know how that looks. And all the contracts got to be different based on how, you know, guys came into the league. There's, it just feels like such a hornet's nest of, of mess to try to suss out if,

if things are to pack up. I have, I have reason to believe, uh, And again, this is just based on probably two people that I've spoken to at the time. Like, Roms, all of Roms deal is not all in cash. Like I do, I think there is, if this thing folds at the end of this year, there would be money left on the table from Roms perspective.

If it was a six year deal, this was what his third full year on live. And he's got, he's got up front signing bonus and made a ton there, but he would not be realizing, we don't know what the full value of his contract is. But I think he would be, he would not be realizing anything of, in the signing bonus portion of the remainder of the three years on his contract. Yeah. He's realized a lot of cash on the golf course already. I was pulling, Cody,

I don't know if you had this pulled up or not, but we had the, like, I was just curious, like the career money leaders. It's like, to your point, Solly, it's like, well, are people going to stick around? What are they doing? And then you remember, like, man, they're playing for $30 million every week. It's like, is pretty well.

Yeah, ROMs made $87.6 million on the golf course. Not counting any bonuses. Not counting any bonus. Joaquin Neiman's second at 71.6, followed by the great man, Taylor Gooch, 68. This is all on live. 0.7. This is all on live. Yeah.

Yeah. Which I believe is probably on court, like individual and team bonuses. But like Sally said, not even signing bonuses. So it's, yeah, I don't know. And then you get into the whole question. This is speculation corner, obviously. but it's, you know, the PJ Tour just kind of pulled the returning member program out of their butts, right?

I mean, they can certainly drop another one of those if they want and pick who they want to come back. And man, what happens to those other guys? What is Thomas Dietrich and Ben on who just joined Live this year? And it played what? Six events, Lesaso, skip the Masters to go play this. It's just a, yeah, man, I don't know. I get a kick out of just backing up.

You read through all the sources on this, right? Because the internet's on fire, palace intrigue. But when when someone like Brett Bear weighs in, it's like no upside for Brett Bear to, you know, Laura Lume or something, right? She's, you know, she just has to hit once out of a hundred. But Brett Bear, it's like, yeah, he's probably got some source on geopolitics. It's like, oh, yeah, this shit's done, man. And he's just like, yeah, I'm just, yeah, I'm, no, this is so solid.

But when the non-golf, you know, but like real media comes out with something like this, it's just like, oh, God, that's, that to me was like a nail in the coffin of like, yeah, there's absolutely no upside for him to speculate. He would just stay away from it if it wasn't super solid. That's what I think. Which I think Joel said that too, but that's what's so interesting about like the two sides of the New York Times. The people who are like reporting on the PIF mission update coming to the same conclusion as, you know, Gabby and Brody and Brendan Quinn and all these people that cover the PJ tour every week.

It's just a, yeah, I think that's where it got real, real smoky. I forget what I was going to say. Oh, yeah. Today, like the journey of like news in, in 2026 was, it was like preparing for tonight. It was like, okay, we got the Financial Times. We got the New York Times. We got the athletic golf channels saying this. But also this guy on Twitter that used to have like a live account that changed his name

to something else, something different is saying something different. and my brain is corrupted. I'm like, he might be right. Maybe the correct media is wrong about all this stuff. Like, I can see how people end up in these horrible spots where you don't know who to trust. But the much more likely reality is that one side is telling maybe not the full story. I just think back a week ago, guys, I was on a flight to Augusta, literally last Tuesday out of Newark. And there were five live golf teams.

members all wearing matching quarter zips flying down to augusta and i was like oh the whole squad's coming i was like that's kind of lame they're all wearing the matching quarters zips but like okay they're coming down and force uh it's just it's just crazy how quickly that you know a week later it's like those guys are all you know unfortunate for them looking for jobs probably good uh good week for rory i got to think went in the masters and then uh maybe just having a glass of wide and watching watching twitter all day today Man, I just, it's bad week for Yasser. It just, it feels like this one's coming in from above them.

Because, I mean, he really dug his heels in. It's hard to believe he'd be like, okay, let's get out real quick. Like, that's where the sloppy thing comes in. It just, it's like, God, he staked his whole reputation on, you know, this golf league. And I haven't heard from him. I don't know. It's just interesting. Which, again, we don't have to do the macro.

live conversation tonight, but like everything Joel broke down for us tonight spoke to the goal and the purpose of live golf. Like it's not about growing. We knew all of this. We've said this for four years. None of this needs to be said, but like we're also yelled at online for four years that we're wrong about all this stuff. Like there's no public interest in in this league.

It doesn't make any sense financially. It's not even close. It's not growing the game. It fractured professional golf. Like all of that is as was as true in 2022 as it is today. And just like you're waiting this whole thing out to be like, yeah, whenever it would either take a change in leadership at Yasser's position, you know, a change in leadership of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia or like a change in investment plan to start unwinding this thing. It would have nothing to do with the success or failure of the league because the league has been a failure. Like we've known all of that.

So it's been the weirdest and hardest thing to cover this just it's just on this mission, lighting this money on fire. Everyone's like, this is going to continue forever. It's great. It's a success. They have endless pile of money when it's like the public interest isn't there. And the PGA tour and professional golf is in a very different spot than it was, say, two years ago when I felt like there was nothing but negative momentum. I think the PGA tour has definitely turned around a lot of the momentum to say, I just don't know. Combining all of that with being up against these contract extensions.

And this timeline makes sense for this league to deteriorate by the end of this year. Like it would take such a monumental, another round of investment to extend and continue all of this with guys that are just aging, like not even recruiting new talent in like guys that are aging and Bryson and Rahm. That's really all it is. I mean, I think if I'm remembering right, didn't Scott O'Neill say in an interview fairly recently that it was going to take another five to ten years for the league to be profitable? Like that's the biggest, the biggest cheerleader of the league saying like, oh yeah, we still got another decade and then we're going to be dialed. Which to your point is like, man, it's going to, again, they're playing for $30 million a week. Like, that's a lot. 10 years more of, right.

That's what I'm like, if you want to take the most optimistic point of view and say that that's true, it's like, you know how it takes so much money to even get there, man. That's, that's insane. And not to mention the concerts that you're putting on every single day of the tournament to get all the people to attend there just so you can keep up appearances for this thing. And potential hit to the chain smoker's pocketbook if this thing goes away. I'll tell you that. I guess I don't know, maybe was the path to profitability these things becoming billion-dollar franchises, like they also said out loud, like not very long ago, like within the last calendar year have said, you know, we want $13 billion franchises. It was as laughable today as it was then. Yeah.

The Cleaks streetwear lineup. Spring collections dropping next week. Joel said a lot of really interesting stuff. And chiefly among it was the kind of, does another international interest come in to try to make this thing work? I do think about like the, you know, making assumptions speculating. Like if it's about to be sold for parts, like what does that look like? Because you can't deny that the Australia stuff and the South Africa stuff. Like there's something, there is something real there.

and it's hard to suss out how much of that is because of Bryson, how much of that is almost a contrarianism. Like, we'll show you. You don't think anybody's going to show up. We're going to go do this. I don't know if you can salvage that with a scaled back league or something. Like, if you lose Bryson, can you still keep something from this to keep it going? Like, we'll have to think about it more,

but I thought he did a good job of at least, you know, starting some new, some new lines of thinking there. I got to think that if another international or outside interest, like if it is, you know, Blitzer and Harris or somebody like that comes in, they're going to want to work with the powers that be. It's going to be less spit in your face, give us world ranking points,

but we're not going to play by your rules. And it's going to be a lot more like, okay, let's maybe fold into the, I don't know, the ecosystem is, as Charles said. It just, I think it still requires, it's a broken model. Like it still requires just a buyer that's like looking to light money on fire.

Like that's why the whole thing always ladders up to sports washing. And it's not been fun to talk about and not been a fun phrase to use four years into this. But none of that has changed. Like that's still the reason why they're doing this. Like I don't think like the Norwegians are coming in to buy this thing up if the Saudis give it up because they're much smarter with their. investments. They're much more prudent with their investments. They're not looking to sports wash their image. They have a good image in front of the world. I don't know. You got to shell out 30 million bucks to the players every single week.

Nicolike Tangren make them all come on his podcast. That's true. Exactly. Norwegian sovereign wealth. And you don't have that's the only thing I need from you. You don't have the talent of the top guys unless you shell out ungodly amounts of money, outsized amounts of money to like there is a market for golf and then there's an irrational market for it like all these things are are coming to a head today all these things we've been saying for for four years are coming to a head today is not the day that we we dance on the grave and that we we look back at all the comments and and pieces over the we will do that someday assuming this league does close trust flash mob on the grave we have files we have Solly just wants to get on that coffin in that meme.

Today is not that day, but it certainly looks like we're headed that way. So what is the, is the PJ tour do anything? Or do they let it, let it play out? Yeah. Let it play out. What do you, let's let's say, let's operate in a world that this is done at the end of the year. What do you do with Rahm and Bryson if you're the PJ tour and your rollout? I mean, I think you've, I think you take them back.

I think they have adopted the, like, I think they've adopted the stance. I don't know, man. I think they've adopted the stance that whatever's going to help the product is going to help the product. And I think those two massively help the product. Yeah, it's probably some version of the Brooks deal, but that hurts financially, right? that you just try to publicly outline how much money you're not going to get, you know, potential money you're not going to get and make them play second tier events. How do you do that with guys that maybe don't want to come back as much as Brooks did?

I mean, you told Rahm, you're going to be mega suspended if you go one. And then you offered a one-time amnesty. Like, I don't know if you can offer the Brooks deal again, one. And I think if you're recruiting Rom to come back under that, like he knows he has the power in that and can kind of dictate the terms. Well, if you don't want to, I mean, those are, I don't know. Those are, if they don't want the deal, they don't want the deal, right? Like, I don't think you go begging for those guys to come back.

I think it's, I just think it's messier with, with Rahm and Bryson than I think it was with this kind of program that's like, oh, you want to come back? You can come back right now. Here's the penalties you got to pay. I don't know. I don't know how, how things will. play out. That's for a future day. But I'm curious, I don't know if there's been since we've been live. I don't know if there's been any statements that have confirmed that everybody is going to

play this week. I would assume the players play. I know that there was the golf channel graphic that was popped up that it was rumored that guys were potentially not going to play tomorrow. If they weren't paid, I believe they've been paid now from what I've gathered. But what about slugger? What do you do a slugger? Great question. Is there returning, you know, rules official program? returning official the RAROP

Yeah I'd have to What happens to Farity You know And I mean God It's just There's just a lot God we yeah

We do need to maybe do a whole retrospective It's amazing how I promise if you're listening to this It's amazing how much you forgot Of the last four or five years I mean the flash mob is the is the easy one There's just the Bryson rope

Surely you jest Shirley, you jest. I mean, there's just, there's hundreds of things that have happened. But the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, with the, with the shrimp cocktail and all, all of that. It's just, there's a million, a million things. The clip art, the original logos. The, the, the rhino jive.

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's recent. Like, 747 private jet. Oh, yeah. God. How did this thing not work? Yeah. It's crazy.

Well, shout out to, uh, yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, ride French, the takesman, Tweed Mitchell, just blowing the top off of it, huh? That's right. I will say, they do get the credit for the original scoop, but it was like, oh, take the under. Part of the original scoop was take the under on the next event. I was like, oh, okay, the next events are happening. Like, I hope people didn't take the under when the Cali markets were interesting to monitor today because it was, at one point, it was like very, very much in favor.

Like the Mexico event's going to happen, but like you could almost make. five to one on your money betting against the Virginia event happening, which would be the next one. It's like since now flipped and it's like basically you can make four to one on your money betting against the Virginia event happening now. But it was an interesting, interesting day on those markets as to they couldn't figure out what was about to happen over the next couple events as well.

And I think we are only in danger of saying things we will ultimately eventually regret if we continue on any farther. But we did need to pop on tonight. I really appreciate everyone, tuning in here, but trying to summarize everything that's happened over the last 24 hours, we'll, of course, be closely monitoring the situation. Any other updates will likely come on our Sunday live show that will be coming up this coming Sunday.

For me and my team. Recaps. They'll be from me and my team. Yeah, many things we've forgotten about on live. Caffeine TV. We had a shout out of caffeine TV. I mean, it's just thousands of things. People have forgotten.

But thank you, everyone, for popping on late here on a Wednesday night. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in, and we'll sit back here come Sunday. Thank you to Joel for popping on as well, into our friends at Titleist and Roebuck and Cody running the ones and twos. We'll see you here on Sunday. Crack on. Cheers.