No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1163: Wyndham Wins Dallas, LIV News & The Faz Speaks

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

Soly and DJ recap Wyndham Clark’s win at TPC Craig Ranch, the renovated course and the tournament’s place in a future PGA Tour schedule. Then it’s Neil, Randy and Soly with some reactions to the latest in LIV’s fundraising efforts and Tom Fazio’s comments on planned work at East Potomac. On the way out, a quick story from Bobby Weed on Pete Dye that will air this week as we debut a two-part deep dive on Dye’s life and career.  Support our Sponsors: Titleist Pinehurst Lagoon If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a weirdly located version of the No Laying Up podcast here in the United Lounge here.

We are about an hour away from getting on the plane to leave for Toursau. Here's how today's episode is going to work. I'm Sally. I'm here with my guy, DJ Pi. Greetings. Hello. We are going to be doing a short recap here from the line. lounge of the golf you just witnessed. We recorded the news-ish part of the week earlier

with Neil and Randy that's going to come in here. Once we're done here from lunch, I'm hungry too. I've got to get a little bit of food in me as well. So you can expect all that on the back end. We're going to do a little tease for our Pete Dye stuff we've got coming this week. But we're going to be hitting the road for a little bit. So just forgive us for the random setting for this Sunday night podcast. I mean, it's an emergency. When you see a tournament like this, you've got to hop in no matter what the circumstances. No, we're going to get to that before we get to that sally the weight is over big news we are going on tour sauce and soli was complaining all i don't have a driver this is unfair unfair situation you got

the driver now you've got you got everything or just you guys have been with me long enough you just make up what i would like have said but now i'm trained my that would be my excuse but i never actually said that you guys were the ones right up to the line you said i was playing with inferior technology we're in england uh got fit new gt s3 i so i just got it literally yesterday a little bit of time after the kids went down to hit a couple of balls. You know, you work on it while you're testing it and everything, but until you get it on your course, you don't know how it's going to be. Touch 170 for the first time without any speed training in several years, I think.

It was the easiest fastest switch out. I'm getting a little bit more air under it, a little bit more carry under it than I have. The GT was just a little flatter for me. Easiest possible fix. Thought there'd be a little bit of like, hey, should I take it on Torres sauce? I don't know. Bang, right in. Right in the bag.

Immediately in. I think the whole, I think 100. percent of the field. It's going to be putting the GTS in play of this year's tourist thoughts. So if you haven't been fit recently, there's a good chance you are leaving some performance on the table. Titleist.com will help you find a GTS fitting near you. Favorite week of the year, CJ Cup, Byron Nelson. We're going to have some fun. We're going to say a lot of stuff. Let's start positive. Wyden Clarks have 60 in the final round. They don't just hand out 60s. Look, I know there's a lot of birdies out there. I know

it's hard to make bogeys. I know. You still got to make putts. He putted unbelievable. He seemed to find it with the driver. If you go look at his stats from Aeronomank in some of the earlier tournaments this year, he was not quite as comfy with the driver as he seemed to be. A lot of this is going to lead back to the golf course.

Probably. You can get away with maybe. He seemed a little freed up. But look, he shot 60 and he shot 30 under. I'm glad that they sent that message to the golf course, $25 million renovation, to get one stroke lower. No.

Wasn't I saying positive thing? Yes, you're trying. It's really hard. There are a couple different directions I could go. You could focus on the fact that, man, it's really hard to make a boge. Scotty Sheffler didn't make a five until what, like the 70th hole of the tournament or 68th hole of the tournament, something like that. There was also a ton of people out there. I think there's a very interesting push and pull.

I don't know how you feel. But I think there's a very interesting push and pull between like that is objectively not a good TV product. Correct. That was not fun to. watch. In person makes sense. And it seems like everybody in person is very into it. It seems like they have a sponsor that's very into it. They clearly have some people that are willing to spend money on the golf course. I hate to jump right there and like we can get back to Wyndham Clark, but I do think there's a

very interesting like track one, track two, premiere events. Where does this? Like it does have a lot going for it that are a lot of things that we probably don't like. And that just leaves me in a very strange spot. How do you feel about that as a thesis? It is, this is this tournament is, the, like in the middle of the tug of war of old tour versus new tour. 100%. Like when the tour was about the tour aspect of it and there wasn't that much television product and it was about, you go to Dallas and you get a chance to see the stars in Dallas and then you go to this city.

That's your chance to see them now. The approach is much more based around a media deal, a season-long championships, a structure that is like a PJ tour as like a league versus just a tour of random stops. This is caught right in the middle of like, it's not a very good TV product, doesn't get a great field. The golf course leaves a little to be desired, I think. Yet, it's hard to argue with the charitable aspect of the salesmanship club and the reason that's moved back to the north side.

Trinity Forest, I thought, was a more interesting golf course when they had it, but that lost out to the charitable element of getting the tournament back on the north side of Dallas, blah, all the stuff that's not fun about golf. Just getting people through the gates. Yeah, it surrounds this event. But it is going to be a track-to event, I think, almost certainly, despite some of the quotes from some of the people involved that was like, this is our chance to make it a premiere event,

and I don't think this was their chance. I don't think that anything seemed. I don't think Craig Graham. There's a little bit of the haters say that we can't be a premiere event. Honestly, great call by the haters. They were exactly. Sort of a week. To give some credit, I know the wind didn't blow.

I know it was soft. I know there are some very legitimate reasons why nobody in the whole field made a bogey all week. But also, you just kind of get this. that in like late May in Dallas is like we did that at Trinity yeah it didn't blow at Trinity either and they it was wet for that one and that was you know the scores were super low in that one I think it man if you if you just don't if you don't have a piece of land that has a golf course on it that makes the land work against the players like

thinking back on eronomic like there were so many shots part of the good of erronec was the natural rolling landscape there and so so much of that was meant to deter them the players. And a really flat piece of land is going to require a lot of really, really interesting nuanced and tight contouring. And honestly, just like smaller, if you want like higher scores, they should have made the greens way smaller. Like TPC sawgrass is a not a long golf course that is very flat that challenges players in interesting ways. And like Craig Ranch is like the opposite of TPC sawgrass in every aspect. But like if you were trying to make it harder, you needed to take some cues from something like that versus like, dude, if you told me,

you couldn't just tell me they read it the greens and I've been like oh yeah I buy that the greens look kind of cool right I mean the greens looked like there were not challenging no but there were a couple shots there'm like ooh the ball's rolling a little bit oh there's a little slope they got to contend with oh there's something funneling it there which

to the point where I yeah I weirdly a strange takeaway again I'm a positivity corner we're about to go on a great golf trip I got nothing but positive fives here there were a couple moments as I'm watching it today where I'm like I'd like to play that golf course which is not something I have ever said, ever even come close to saying about this tournament in the past.

There was at least that. There was a little bit of like, oh, that was a fun slope. The shot that Wyndham Clark hit into, I think it was 13, the one right before the short part four, where you got to hit it over. You know, there's just like big spines in a lot of the greens. Balls spitters. Ball splitters. God, you want to talk about ball splitters? You want to talk about small greens, TPC sawgrass? We got some stuff coming. Stay tuned for our deep dive, because there's going to be a lot of that. But yeah, I mean, that was, I'm sitting here and I'm like, well, man, I'd love to talk about,

like a shootout. I'd love to talk about who, where was the edge, blah, blah, blah, but it just is a little bit like, man, I don't have a whole lot to say other than Wyndham Clark putted his base off. He made everything. And what is it, Wyndham Clark and

Sioux Kim shot something like 57 under as a duo? Sebo Kim led by five shots through two rounds, shot 68, 65 on the weekend, lost by three. That's hard to beat, man. That's hard to beat. There were a couple A couple things I know you were not loving the, I think it was it, the 15th pole?

14th. The driveable fort. No, no, no. Yeah, there's a couple things I didn't like you. You're right. Yeah, a couple quick hitters. The 14, CWu Kim hits it, I don't know, 70. I think that shot that he hit on 14, I think if you stood over a driver and you closed your eyes,

these guys are so good and so repeatable, he probably hit that 310 yards. I think he could have hit it in that same spot with his eyes closed, and it was just like short grass. Everybody in the broadcasts was like, yeah, I think that's fine. I don't think it was fairway, but it was like a carved out section of short rock. If you go back and look at that. Like there's distinct fairways, but then there's also like it looks like a semi-fairway farther right. Load it as far right as you want. Chip up.

Make GERD. Over there. And then, yeah, you get to 50, the part three, Scotty hits, pulls one. Oh, no. A little in theory. Yeah. Right.

A little bowl, but by the water. I like the idea. Pulls it. says, oh, no, like, it's going towards the water. And I, hits the bank, and I'm like, oh, I definitely hit the bank and went in the water. Nope, stayed in the rough right there. He almost chipped it in.

Yeah, I think it was, like, as far away from the hole as he could have hit that chip, probably. And all that for, they spent $25 million is over a million per hole. And it just goes to show, like, I don't know, it golf is in a really tough spot with the professional game and challenging these guys. I mean, you can't, a fresh redo with the specific design of making it harder for Pro is a bad idea to begin with. I think golf courses should just be about the membership and about the people who played every day more than it is about that.

But it also can't even do that. Is like, dude, if we're not talking about technology, I don't know what you do next here. This really isn't online. This is about, it's a big-ass problem. Yeah, I think, like I said, there was some interesting stuff from the, like, does DJ want to play this course? Would he have a fun time out there?

I think there was, like, some good stuff out there. I think, yeah, to your point, challenging the best in the world is, tough to begin with and tough in that climate, tough in that, oh, by the way, you got to turn it around in less than a year. Like that's, I mean, that's incredible. We've talked to Gil Hansen about trying to do that at Colonial and, like, that timeline is really hard. So I just, I don't know, it would be very easy and I'm sure there's a ton of piling on. Like, it'd be very easy to come on and be like, what a fucking disaster. I'm like, it's just a really hard question to answer. I think more than anything. It just doesn't really have a championship golf course. Yeah.

I mean, if they do, they're not trying to take this. event to it. Like it is just not the terrain is not amazing for golf. And again, if you're going have like the old course is a super flat course, but has a ton of undulation on it. Even that doesn't hold up to the pro golf, especially when it doesn't blow. Exactly. So I don't know if I don't, it's not like if the wind blew this week would have been like, oh, we would have seen Craig. TBC Craig James in some really good light. I really don't think that would have been the case. I just don't think. But there, I guess let me, let me leave you with this question. And I don't think we'd need to have the answer to it, but like, does any of that matter, I guess, is where

we kind of started from? And I, I don't know. I think that there's a very, very, like, what are people, all those people that are on site, what are they going to be, I just get stuck with the push and pull between, like, what matters in this conversation? Like, are those people all leaving and being like, holy shit, that guy shot 60? Like, that's unbelievable. Probably. Oh my God, Scott Schaeffler. Almost won. Man, you just, you just got, you know, just got, you know, just got, beat at the end. Or does the telecast and the premier product and all of that stuff have to win out? I don't really know.

I just think it's a interesting pushing for RoLAP on like, what are we trying to, what matters? I'm with you, but I also just think like, I don't think that, and I don't mean to make fun of this fan. I'm just a casual fan that, you know, doesn't watch every golf tournament. They shouldn't be making the decisions that would the golf should look like. It should be done by somebody with a vision for the game. And that might, in theory, run counter to what that person thinks is exciting. But I think the job of the people that lead the game is to create the most exciting and repeatable. I don't mean repeatable like the same thing every week, but a continuously exciting product week in a week out for your media deal,

which is really where the meat of the money is. And theoretically, to test the right skills so that, like, you create superstars. Because what you hear on the broadcast today, and who knows, I thought Frank Nololo was good, by the way. I'm not usually shock you with something here in a minute. He's not usually in the, you know, the Trevor and woman analyst chair. I thought he did a great job. But one thing he did say that I think was, I think it was him. But it was kind of like, man, you know, a lot of guys that have not been playing great,

kind of finding their form this week. I'm like, ugh. Maybe that's, that might be interesting, but there might. It's a little bit of a Brian Windhorst. Like, why would that be? I will say I was genuinely stunned to flip on. And again, we were talking a lot about. skill separation and stuff with the Ronomek and how the skill didn't really separate.

The skill separated really well at Craig Reitz this week. Really? For what, I mean, it was a good, for the bad field. It was a good leaderboard. A lot of the best players did rise to the top. And surprisingly, way less of a putting contest than I would have thought. Round four kind of turned into one. But like a lot of the variance was explained by approach.

Definitely didn't feel like that like that on day four. It felt like the worst version of the course. And there are a ton of birdies out there. But statistically, you do got at least say like it was better than the normal piece of shit putting contest that you usually get there. It didn't feel that way. It did not. And so I'm not going to sit here and say like, yeah, this is the greatest test of golf I've ever seen. Neil is filming us right now.

Neil's got some retro tech. I know the people listening to the podcast. Neil's got some retro tech going on. Ask Neil how his photos from August it turned out last time he used some retro tech. He just got his digital camera photos back. weird. You say you look like the moth man. Whatever you're out of focus. Whatever you're picturing for a bad photo, it's worse.

It looks like they're from the 40s. That's really good. All right. You got anything else? Yeah. Afterward, you know, there was a, Windham, Windham brings up, you know, what happened at last year, I don't have the exact quote, what happened at last year at Oakmont was, wasn't the best, but my sponsors didn't drop me. And then there was the, you know, he's been through a lot. And he totally owned that.

I was like, I do not think we've heard him own that. I don't think him saying, he keeps talking about it. Like it's something that happened to him, not something that he did. And I think for a lot of golf fans, there's still going to be a big hurdle to clear of like, a lot of people aren't getting back in the windowboat if they ever were. And like, until you like, you know, I don't want to say confess to your crimes, but at least acknowledge them. Like, do something heartfelt and represent that you regret what you. you did and that you know that's not good for the game of golf and good for, you know, professional golf and good for yourself.

Like, until that happens, I think he's still going to be battling some major, major headwinds. And it felt like the little bit I was on social media today, I felt that same kind of feeling going on. Yeah, it's a hard one where you don't, like, people shouldn't be kept in Twitter jail forever, right? Like, you should be able to evolve and change if you're willing to do so and you have some contrition. And the best way to do that is like get more spotlight. And the best way to get more spotlight is winning. So hopefully it's, you know, it's something that flips around and he does turn into a better version of himself. Obviously, that was a big talking point all week with him.

He had the caddy bibs and he was reminded of like all the mental health stuff. And there are the, not even mental health, just mental gain, probably more stuff that. Again, podcast bump. I know Julie Elion with a podcast bump this week. You love to see that. But yeah, hopefully he gets it. you know, gets it turn around in an authentic way. And I don't know, man, he was on, say what you will, about Wyndham.

He's not my favorite player by any stretch. But, man, he was like a real world beater a couple years ago. And it's not, it's more fun when the world beaters stay world beaters. You know, you want to see guys stack up careers and, you know, kind of keep getting better and better. And he has fallen off in a big, big way. So if he needed a little bit of a get right here at TBC Craig James, then. you know, a little slump buster maybe, then a good for his.

Just see a few 90-mile an hour fastballs down. And he's got options left. He got an option and he's just raking down there on that pitching. So, on a rehab start. Yeah, it's been an ugly. They said it's on the broadcast. I got for the Dell's bloating down there.

He has two top tens the last two years. Yeah, it's been really bad. One was at the open last year. Look at his driving numbers from last week. Do they have? Yeah, driving numbers. Yeah. like almost last in the field god uh place you couldn't really lose shots yeah it's been yeah so

that's tough so um all right well again thank you for bearing with us on a uh on travel sunday and we will not again not have a sunday recap next week no you got anything you want to say you good meal's all set uh thank you to neal for getting me in the united club big you want to say anything just congrats to wind um yeah winnie's really excited for wind him congrats to wind um cool to see you know good goal That's great. God, could this, could this, nobody bottom lines. Sorry to my drop in Randy.

Broadcasting school is really paid off. Shout to Major League 2. That's going to do it from this section. Had a fun convict with Neil and Randy here coming up next. Thanks for tuning in. A quick break here to remind you now is the time to visit Pinehurst Resort at the cradle of American Golf. Pinehurst is more than the fame number two and anchor site of the U.S. Open.

It's Tom Doak's masterful number 10, four historic hotels and newly built luxury cottages at Pinehurst, eight, the one-of-a-kind title of shop at Pinehurst and the new Peter Millar shop, a trio of dynamic dining experiences at Station 21, plate, and the upcoming wiregrass. Pinehurst blends timeless charm with the very best in the game today. Visit Pinehurst.com to play on your stay. Back to the pod. Gentlemen, a little weekly roundup Friday, May 22nd. Mr. Big, how are you? I'm good, Neil. Thank you. How are you?

I'm doing fantastic. As always, it's about to be kind of know-as-a-lawish. dark weather here in in the New Jersey area through Memorial Day weekend, but it's sunny right now. Sali, how are things in Jacksonville? Wonderful. Heating up enough that I'm excited to get on a plane and go somewhere much cooler. I feel you there. But I got the, my parents are coming in town tomorrow to help out around the house. So fired up to see them. Guys, summer's here. We're going to, we're going to whip it around with some news of the week. We've got some, some live news. Seems to be a weekly occurrence now. We've got some, uh, hegan Bradley news.

we're going to talk about. We've got a little Tom Fasio news we're going to talk about. But I wanted to kick it off with a very dumb icebreaker question. I've been, I've asked a few people this solid. I believe I've asked you this. What would your definition of a stick be? Like when someone's like, that guy's a stick. Does that phrase get tossed around too much? And it kind of came up in conversation again for me a few days ago. And it seems like everybody has a different answer on that. And I'm curious what you would say to that. first thing that came to mind to me when you said to ask that plus two handicap is a stick that's not scratch it's better than scratch scratch scratch is not scratch yeah better than scratch it's got to be better than scratch a stick like I don't mean this literally but a stick doesn't miss like a stick is he's gonna be there like he's not shooting in the 80s he's not you know all over the map like a stick is uh yeah it is definitely better than scratch in my opinion Randy you have any anything to add to that have you I know you haven't thought this through but some people thought it was more like, oh, no, he always wins matches.

Like I had a friend say, like that guy, it's not really score related. It's more like he just, the guy's, you know, he's a shark kind of. It's a sandbagger. Yeah, I know. I was like, well, I don't know if that's it. I'm kind of with you, Sally. I feel like it's, I like the idea of it being a level above scratch. Randy, what do you think?

Yeah. Oh, I don't disagree with that. I think that's right. I'm not thinking about putting a number on it. I was going to say, you know, somebody that's won their club championship, somebody that's played a decent level college golf, you know, somebody like that, I think. Somebody that qualifies for maybe a state AM, state mid-am, state open.

You know, I consider those people certainly sticks. But, you know, I'm talking to two gentlemen that are around that scratch numbers. And I wouldn't consider myself a stick. I really wouldn't. I think there's a consistency to a stick. There's an effortlessness. So I, yeah,

I feel like it's a note when you see it more than it is like a certain number. I like your definition there, Randy, of like resume stuff. Like, what can you point to? I think you have to bag some. You have to get dumbs.

Some trophies at some point. You got to won something. Sure. It's a high honor. I will say that. It's a, it's kind of like the dude status out on tour. Like,

it's a very high honor. And I think it gets tossed around. a little laissez fair that's kind of why i'm bringing i'm like i don't know some guy i was at playing the tournament some guy's like oh that guy's a stick i was like i looked up his score afterwards he shot like 80 i'm like i don't know if it's a stick i mean listen i shot 84 the course was hard but i was like i you know i wouldn't call myself the course the course no everybody's degrading themselves it was so sick uh all right

well thank you for for uh humor me gentlemen all right let's get on this news of the week live golf the live golf tour randy's favorite tour is seeking investment joe bill as always has a great summary find that on golf digest, but Axios reported earlier this week that LiveGolf CEO, Scott O'Neill is seeking $250 million to keep the league alive. According to that report, O'Neill is projecting that the league will be profitable in two years. That's an update from 10 years. He has previously said it would take 10 years for the league to turn a profit.

Bloomberg reported, I love it when the non-golf media starts sniffing around the golf media. Add him to the list. Corrupt Golf Media. So Bloomberg, now corrupt golf media, is reporting that LiveGolf is considering relocating its headquarters to the U.S. where bankruptcy restructuring laws are more favorable. Live Golf has entities that are based in the U.S., in England, and on the island of New Jersey.

Not New Jersey. A source with knowledge of the situation told ESPN that Liv is exploring and considering a number of future pathways and long-term strategic partners. The source said the league has received significant interest from potential investors and would soon be presenting its go-forward business plan to those prospective capital partners. God, I love that jargon. We're starting to get into jargon territory, Randy. Jargony and just of note in that the source, again, this is a source with knowledge of the situation told ESPN, and the source said the league has received significant interest. Very strong reason to believe that source is from somebody within the Live Golf Organization.

It was going around that ESPN has reported that there's significant interest in the investor interest. There's a difference between ESPN reporting that and them saying a source very clear. to the situation is telling them that. That is, it may not sound like it, but there's a massive difference between the two. Source with knowledge of the situation. Other reports say that Liv has landed on 10 event, a 10 event global schedule for 27 and is looking to replicate events like the South Africa and Australia events that have been successful will be rhino jiving all over the place.

Ducera partners is advising Live golf in the pitch process. And this is from Joel Beals, peach, quote, the league has since installed Gene David and John Zinman, Zinman, to lead a restructured board describing them as, quote, seasoned experts with proven track records for navigating complex situations and unlocking value for global organizations. I guess, I mean, is that like prestige worldwide or what? I look these guys up, Randy. That's what we're all striving. Some airline restructuring. Looks like they, they might be handling some like, listen, there's a long line of people that got to get paid.

Guys, get in line. I'm setting up a folding table. let's get organized here. There's one line. You guys are crowding around me. We're going to handle this. So all that said, Sal, I go to you.

What questions do you have? I have a lot. I'm not a lot of news in there, right? There's an update to Scott O'Neill's seeking $250 million saying he can get profitable in two years versus 10 years and this business. Okay, if I may, Sally, I know the question was directed at you. but I guess my, I'd like to drill down into that piece of information. We know from reported figures, the PIF spent somewhere $5 billion in excess of $5 billion from 2021 to today.

SLEG was nowhere near profitable. It's really interesting to me that with just, you know, just $250 million more dollars, they can turn a profit maybe in two years. Let's take that at face value, okay? To me, though, that says we are massively scaling down the operation. We're not going to have near the money to pay these big-time guaranteed contracts to players. And where my mind goes is, is this even going to be a competitive golf league? Or are we thinking of a entertainment product that kind of has a.

10 events around the globe, you know, Bryson and his merry band of friends, like, I'm almost thinking now it's like, are we going for Harlem Globetrotters, Savannah bananas type of thing? I guess I don't say that just, but like I don't know how else

you, you know, we haven't come close with all the money, but now we just need a little money and we have a plan to profitability. I just think it's going to be maybe exhibition golf in a few places and that's what it is. So one of the many questions I have, Randy, is I'm not a bankruptcy expert on this,

but I don't think things, you know, when things are going great, you file for bankruptcy. And I don't know when this happens, when and if this happens, what happens with the contracts that they, that they have? Is that the out needed from John Rom and from what we've heard? And I don't have this on great terms. We've heard like that ROM's contract, of course, is very buttoned up. And, you know, if they dumb the schedule down and just play a few events, ROM still got to play on that circuit, which would leave him kind of in limbo.

He could play a lot of DP World Tour events now if he wanted to supplement that. But could they basically force, because they don't have Bryson under contract after this year. I also say no to the money, Sally. Could they force ROM into playing this? And is it like the John Rom tour, which again, I don't think is like they're not, they're not getting anybody to watch it now with all they have. I don't know what a dumb. I don't know what a dumb down.

I don't know what the point of a dumb down version is. golf was loud. It was newsworthy and that they were signing away players for massive signing bonuses, blah, blah, blah. The events are big. The parties are lavished. There's a ton of people there because they put on a concert every night. It is just a massive expenditure is what has made the successful quote parts of live are all based on that. When you strip all that away, it just becomes like one of the saddest like professional golf exhibitions or tours, whatever you want to call it. like strip down purses, then you're gonna, unless you're forcing these guys to play it in some way, contractually, strip down purses, you have no chance of recruiting anybody, like of the top players

away from the PGA tour. And you're not doing that already anyways. You're just moving towards something, just trying to keep it alive for the sake of keeping it alive more than like accomplishing what you originally set out to accomplish. And so I, I don't know, I feel like we're headed towards a world where we basically have like a glorified champions tour with a few young guys. and there's going to be Graham McDow, Ian Poulter, and Lee Westwood playing in this thing for purses more than the champions tour, but less, a lot less than the PJ tour. If I had to guess how this is going to play out. I read into $250 million. I'm kind of feeling what Randy's feeling.

One, I think they're like about to approach all these players with like, no, but you're going to have equity. Like the classic from my startup days, like, no, but if this pops, it's like, no, but it's not a good business. Like, that's just kind of a money. You know, a lot of people have, that word equity is everyone's like, oh, I want that. It's like, what, what does that mean? So I doubt the top guys are going to, you know, be thrilled about that. Number one, I think this is kind of that barnstorming thing, Randy's talking about. If I were them, here's what I would do.

Bryson just signed on with this MCM, multi-channel network YouTube golf thing. These guys are trying to roll up like the Brian Bros. Grant Horvat, you know, and I think Josh Harris is. back in it with the YouTube golf stuff. I think Liv gets folded into that. And they go hard into YouTube and it's just like, like what you see from some other golf out, it's like a Russian nesting doll of accounts collaborating and just like run in a muck internationally.

And it turns in like you're never going to believe what happened in South Africa and like with a thumbnail of the rhino jive where it's a lot more down and dirty and it gets a ton of views, which it probably would. If it was like we don't have big ass like camera and, and, outlays. I think with $250 million, you could pull that off and still pay these guys decent. You could put most of that money into purses if you just

dumb down and say like, forget the TV deal. We're going YouTube first. We're going clips, clips, clips, clips, with like 95 collaborators on each clip. And, you know, but can you, you can talk Bryson into that? Can you talk Rom into becoming an influencer? You're going to have to sell so many brands,

though, because I'm just thinking why would you mean? You're playing a different game. You're not playing the... But the brands are already buying through the... That's where the multi-channel network comes. Like, they are buying golf spots on YouTube. It's like you've introduced the intermediary. Now YouTube's going to take their cut so somebody could listen to this and be like,

that's really stupid. But, I mean, I don't think they had like a fat deal from Fox. You know what I mean? So it's like that you're probably better off with like the trying to use like the massive fire hose of YouTube and just clip, clip views and clip like ad sets basically. No, I'm just thinking. like if I invested tens of millions of dollars in that like where how do you get a return on that but it's it's it's such a tarnished in a way like a tarnished brand so you say people are interested

i think they probably are interested but it's like ah you know live doesn't have the best like the brand's taking a hit the last you know month or two let's say that right with the if size are pulling their funding people are running for the hills but you could probably improve it if you brought in some of these youtube outfits that have large followings and like make it that's i think that's you have to make it cool again and that to me is the only way you can make it cool again that that's that's my this is my take not my what i you know i haven't heard this from anybody but that's kind of what i'm like if that number 250 million i think you could do that i don't know if you can run a golf tour though like they because it then

it's coffee in the break room sallie it's like you're taking all this shit away from these guys that have been used to it i think they're just be like now i'm good you know they're not going to be into the equity of it. Yeah. I think it, I just don't get it's so different than what live golf is. Why, what, why salvage live, like, why don't you just do that what you're talking about under a new name and new brand? Like, it's not, that's not live golf. Like, this is a totally new thing. Well, they probably are arguing that some of these teams have value still. So you could, you know, you could turn these teams into like a pro captain and some like top tier, you know, semi-pro influencers and stuff.

Like I, I mean, there's a new freaking golf tour that gets started every week now or every month, you know, like the people are sniffing around this idea. Like, I think it's you know, if I were them, it's like you've got to kind of flow with where things are going. Like I, I'm saying if I was an investor, why would I not want to

just invest in what you're talking about, which I think there is a market for and like just part, you know, take the live golf and all the negative brand association that has away and unless you're getting wrong, which again, I just don't think, Ram is like, if you had Bryson was locked in, I could see what you're talking about. Bryson's a free agent, though.

I just don't get the like Bryson's tie into, into all, or incentive to be tied into all of that if the money's not there. So it's a good point. Yeah. And of course, this could all just be window dressing and people are collecting a paycheck through the end of the year. They're going to file bankruptcy and everything kind of goes away. I mean, that's, that's my leader in the clubhouse.

People answer is usually the last answer. I realize we're, we're, yeah, we're discussing hypotheticals. I mean, I'm just, I'm trying to parachute in like, I'm no expert, but if I'm Scott O'Neill, like, you know, we're running the business. I'm like, what would I do? I'm like, man, I try to like flow with like a younger crowd, like I try to piggyback off of something that is working, which that is working. And it's like, could I, what value can they bring is like maybe the team structure, maybe the, you know, these built in teams and and the and somebody like Bryson and Rom and some of these like, even. some of the mid-tier guys, Neiman and, you know, they all have names, like, just kind of like the Horvats, right? Like, that's, that's kind of the only thing I can see working here.

Otherwise, if I was those guys, I'd be like, no, I'm going to go put a DP World Tour and just act like, you know, I got what I got and I'm going to just try to get back on the, on the, on the traditional tours. Yeah, I, I have big questions about what happens with the remaining money on like Rom's deal or other guys that are. locked up under longer, you know, if they file for bankruptcy, they basically, from what I understand, become unsecured creditors and are probably going to have to dance for that money, I would assume in some way and continue to play. And I think if what I heard was right going into this past week, and I haven't heard any

updates from that, it was new contracts were going to be put in front of all of these players under the new business plan and that with the opportunity to sign or move on. But I'm wondering if that is for all players, you know, players whose deals are expiring this if that includes ROM to have that, you know, possibility as well. But I think there's still a world where ROM gets trapped in whatever they try to band-aid together into next year. I do want to be clear, though, like it's not indentured servitude. Like, he could say no. And I know that's probably like it's a big back.

The guess, I think what you're saying is they back-ended his deal. So if it was 300 million, he's leaving 200 and, you know, 250, 200 million on the table. Is that, is that, I don't know that it's back-ended. I think there's big up front. and then there was, it was, I, again, I don't know this, but kind of smoothed out through, I don't think it's backended, but I think there is money left to be had on ROM's deal in remaining years. And I'd say that's like, yo, man, you got what you got.

I don't think he's going to get that and they can trap him under the new environment. Well, so you're saying, you say that they're trying to claw back what they already gave him? Not what they've given him, but like, let's say they have, let's just say they have 150 million that they still owe him after this year. Then he, you know, he signed up for that thinking there's going to be $25, $30 million purses, and he's getting the $150. The reality is that that money is not there, but they still have them under contract. Again, that's how I understand it.

Like it's written in a way that they can restructure, it can reduce the events, all that. And he still has to stay there, even if that money, like the, the, the guaranteed money, whatever that was isn't as guaranteed as it maybe we thought in the very beginning. So I don't know that. But again, it's like he's not. He could also just say like, all right, I'm not going to make that $125 million. He could do that. And like it sounds like Brooks did something similar.

I'm like, hey man, I'm going to say no to this last year. Again, just the rumor is that Brooks's deal was written different than ROMs is the thing. And like, Rahm alluded to this too of like, I don't think they left me many outs in this one. So that again, worst case, it's like this ghost ship keeps going and ROM has to keep playing on it is going to be like a really, really sad development. But who could say? The difference between good and great golf usually comes down to the details, having everything dialed and more and more for the guys on tour, that means how they sleep. We've partnered with Lagoon because the idea is simple.

If you custom fit your clubs, why wouldn't you custom fit your pillow? You can go to lagoon sleep.com slash NLU, take a two-minute quiz and they match you to the exact pillow that fits how you sleep. Each pillow is adjustable. You can dial it in exactly how you want. So stop trying to spend the first five holes trying to loosen up. If you're serious about those marginal gains, start with the eight hours before you're around. I've been sleeping so much better since I got this pillow last four.

all my whoop data backs it up completely as well lagoon sleep.com slash nLU code nLU will give you 15% off i end up in the otter pillow a lot of the other guys ended up in that same one it is a game changer if you're spending eight hours a day uh on one of these things it might as well be really good quality lagoon sleep dot com slash nLU code nLU for 15% off i promise you will love this product back to the podcast all right well moving on randy what do you got for me this is another fun one kegan bradley was named an ass captain for the upcoming Ryder Cup. Solly, what, I mean, why does it seem like it's the same eight guys that go in and out of

Presidents Cup, Rider Cup, Captain, Assistant Captain, like, I'm so sick of all of it. Like, I don't, you don't care. I shouldn't say I don't care because it's a news item that we're talking about. Like, I truly don't care. But I'm pretty close, Randy. Imagine driving me away this hard. I mean, what would Keegan have had to have done to get, to not get this? You could not have captained the team much worse than he did at Beth Page.

To screw up the setup at home like that to surround yourself with the assistant captains that he surrounded himself with. To screw up a home rider cup in just disastrous, embarrassing fashion. Yeah, sure, they had a great rally on Sunday to make it somewhat close. But you had the worst team organization and worst team performance on home soil that the U.S. has had. ever in recent history. What what are you bringing to the team? What is it that you're bringing to the team in this role? He learning sally you know and a lot of a lot of guys on the team based on full swing they they'll only play for coach kegan so they're probably maybe they're worried that guys are going to boycott if kegan's not back. I mean you you're not in that locker room you don't know

this. I don't know this Neil but he's been a part of the played on two rider cup teams both those ratter cup teams lost he's a captain of another rider cup team that team lost the captain of the u.s. Redder Cup team as captain to Ryder Cup team that one lost he's been assistant captain on I don't know how many teams at this point almost all of them have lost except for 2021 I think he played I think in 10 of them I think he was only a part of two winning teams on those like we're asking the same people to figure out the answer to the test that have like you know the answer these questions that haven't ever been able to do it there was a different way of Jim kind of filling out his assistant captaincy staff group from a team culture standpoint with some fresh voices and fresh

perspective on how to do that let jim handle the analytics and handle you know the the high level stuff that kegan messed up and there was a spot you know whatever kegan role kegan is in like best case scenarios like he's the vibes guy and everybody loves them and that's going to be a great unifying thing for us but it doesn't uh we just like we just went through this like we just tried the Keegan thing and it obviously brought nothing to the table. Now we're going to go on the road and do this. It's just it's gone from you can convince me this Fieric thing, you know, is the right play or a bridge move to like, wow, we are really just running the whole thing back and

hoping for a different result. Meanwhile, they get to set up the course this time. Like, all right, good fucking luck, guys. Good luck. I mean, for once I will not be going into a road rider cup thinking the U.S. is going to win. So at least I'm freed of that pressure and embarrass me this time around. Is this an issue with Furik or does this go up to the PGA of America and like nobody there being able to put a foot down and like, why are we doing things the same way again? I know we've had that debate.

Like, does the PGA of America care that the U.S. is getting smoked in these road rider cups and lost lat like I just, I don't know. Some of it's like politics, right? Like name brands. Like people know who Kagan is. People know who Furik is. I think some of it has to do with like that kind of continuity. It'll be like, oh, yeah. Like casual fans are like, oh, yeah, Kegan.

He really cared. You got it, Mitzali. He did care. I still has to unpack that suitcase. Still, I don't know, we can't bring a grieving assistant captain into the team room here, guys. Like, we need somebody with some spirit in this. I think, Randy, though, like, the more confusing thing is like they're just trying to, they're trying to get it back on this task force path.

Again, the bigger question is, why did you veer violently off that path just to get right? back on it, you know, and try to backtrack and go back to the plan that you had in place. Because abandoned. Where does the buck stop? Who's in charge? I think that's what it rises up to is like, what is the PGA of America? Who ultimately has say in like, here's what we're doing. Here's the plan.

Here's the vision. There's just a complete absence of that. Yeah. I need to see some team building stuff. I need paintball. I need, it's like an escape room brand. Andy, I just, I feel like we need more team. Maybe Keegan can run some of that.

You can't get all the guys there. You probably can't get all the guys together for a weekend. What's funny to me at this point is they're, the Europeans have been feeling themselves so much, deservedly. They've whoop Americans ass. They have given away so much of their blueprint through interviews, talking about how they arrange guys to meet five months in advance and start

talking about potentially playing together. Get lunch together when you guys are playing this event to get, you know, in case you guys are going to be paired. We're thinking about this now. When you get to the first tea at Bethpage, it's not going to be an unfamiliar territory for you. Like the layers and layers and layers, Tommy taking his mental coach out to the first tea

and talking through the opening tea shot of the Ryder Cup, envisioning the, the attitude that's going to take to win these things. Like they've given you a blueprint for how to take a different approach and you never hear the Americans talk about any of those things ever. It's just kind of status quo going to keep going. And to your point, the more you do pull back on it, you're just like, am I rooting for the PJ of America? Like is that what I'm actually rooting for?

Because they've created no identity. Team USA has no identity at this point. They're going to win the President's Cup. And everyone's going to act like everything's great all over again. And then we'll start the cycle back over in Ireland. It's going to be glorious. Organizational failure. That's why if I was Europeans, I'd be like, tell them everything.

They're not going to. That's a good point. That's a good point. All right. Alan Bastable for golf.com got an exclusive interview with Tom Fosio. I've been subject of quite a bit of discussion lately as he is set to oversee the renovation of East Potomac. A lot of complications of that. We're not going to go back into all the details of that.

But essentially, the National Links Trust had been entrusted with East Potomac along with two other DC area golf courses. A bunch of architects had essentially offered their time up for free to renovate. these golf courses and keep them available to public, keep them public accessible and affordable. The Trump administration is coming in and said that the National Link Trust broke their lease and is coming into oversee the renovation of East Potomac. They've hired and now officially said Tom Fasio is going to overdo the redesign that Tom Doak was going to be doing at East Potomac. In Alan Bassel's interview, Fasio said, he originally said no because he didn't want to deal with the red tape. but saw the land and agreed to it.

And in no point in this interview does he acknowledge the fact that what they're taking away from the public as the process of doing this. He had a quote saying, people talk about designing or preserving the old golf courses. If Donald Ross or AW Tilling has, the famous great old designers that they had, if they would have had the budgets and equipment we had today,

they would have done a whole lot of things differently than they did. It's a sick quote. That's an amazing quote. Yeah, they had this bobcat, Andy. They would have done these flash bunkers, what just like falls. Does Tom know he just scored one of the great own goals? No. He calls him famous great old designers. Why are they famous and great in our minds, right? Because they've built these courses that stand the test of time that people enjoy playing. And you don't hear that about Fasio courses, even though you have all this

modern equipment and huge budget. It's like that is such a self-owned there by the Fawz, and he has no idea. He says in there he has Trump wants an event and a big one and, sorry, Alan Bassel said this. Trump wants an event, a big one. And Fasio said his planning has accounted for how galleries might flow through the property and that some of the contouring he's envisioning would serve as natural vantage points for fans, how tens of thousands of spectators, vendors and tournament staff might get in and out of that peninsula as another matter, likely one best suited for a logistics expert to solve.

Still, Fasio said there is a need for more tournament-ready courses in the D.C. Fasio's quote says, there are many golf courses in the region that can host a PJ quality event. Such sites as congressional, TPC Avon, LK's Valley, but most of them don't want to because you have, that means you have to give up your golf course. So let's take it from the. Let's take it from the fucking public, man.

Take it from the man. Yeah, let's take it from all. the exact purpose of this golf course. Let's completely flip it and make this a shrine to the president. You know what? I've been in a bit of a tiff with my wife over. We've got a dining room. I think dining rooms are formal dining rooms are very stupid, Randy.

And I think it serves as a good analogy because I don't like when a room is designed for like what it will be used for like three nights a year. I'm like, hey, can we make it like a home office type room where it could serve as a serving table, you know, like maybe the desk is a table. You know, it has multi-purpose, but it's, that's what this golf course reminds. You know, we need to build a tournament ready course in DC for like the one every seven or eight years that people are going to want to play. Like, it's like, fuck that, man.

Like, why don't we build something that's like easy to walk and gets a ton of play and has a ton of space for first T stuff? I don't know. It just. And I wouldn't say that if it currently wasn't intended for that. Right. You know what I mean? Like, yo, if you're going to build a new course in a new place, I understand.

Yes, by all means, like you want to build a stadium course? I get that. But it's just like taking something that we're already losing a bunch of and just ripping the plans up for that was going to make it better and keep it accessible. It's just really tough, man. It's really fucking tough. Hate it. Yeah, I don't know. There's not a whole lot to add here.

It just seems like. It's going to build an elegant dining room that no one's going to eat in. Right. Right. 7,600 yards is the plan for this golf course, you know, six sets of teas, basically just no, no intention of, of, you know, keeping the Walter Travis original design anywhere involved in there. Also said, we're going to build the best golf course, the equivalent to the Aronimics, the quail hollows, and the Shinnecocks. It's going to be that quality, whether you have an event or not. Quail Hollow is an interesting one to put up against Shinnock, I think.

And listen, I'm going to go ahead and disagree that those two should be mentioned in the same sentence. But of course, quail, being a massive, massive, massive Faws retainer. Yeah, it, dude, I just don't think we're asking for that. A lot of people are asking for that. Or I don't know. So reading the article, the one little detail. that it just was not top of mind. I didn't realize Tom Fasio was 81 years old.

So it just really, I think that kind of puts the cherry on top of, you know, you got a 79-year-old president, 81-year-old golf course designer, kind of taken this golf course that had a lot of good momentum with the National Links Trust. This like a lot of people, I witnessed firsthand. You know, I did the 100-hole hike there, like young people, energetic. And it's like, I don't know, man. I think it just kind of ties up into a societal problem where like can, can the old people just kind of make way for the next generations? Like, can you guys just get out of the fucking way for once and just do less?

Just take this one off. It sucks. The answer is no, Randy. They're going to fix it. No. No. It's like, like, oh, God, there was an old tweet that went, went around. was like, how would you like it if somebody, you know, helped you pick the movie,

then five minutes into the movie just went left. It's like, yeah, that's about old people voting. It's always made me laugh of like, yeah, there was a 50-year lease on this National Links Trust, like with very clear improvement plans to it and people that had signed up to do this for pennies on the dollar to make this a great place. We are not short of tournament golf venues. We are short of good established places where people can play the game. Like the general paying public and learn the game 100%

We're cutting off all of these avenues into the game for people all over the place And this was supposed to be a shining example of somewhere that wasn't going to happen and here it goes. So again, he continued as the president says as a guy who's a golfer, he's just not happy with a golf course with very little grass on it with bad drainage with bad putting services with not quality experiences. He's going to fix that that was already going to happen. That was already in the plans to fix all of that stuff. Don't act like you are the one fixing this in all of this. So as I said, I could not be more fully out on Tom Fosio as a result of all of this.

It was already out for a lot of other reasons prior to this, but this is like, he's talked about in a way among, not among the Gulf architecture nerd group, but just among the general public as being like a name brand. And this should absolutely be a stain on his name brand. Yeah, I don't know why, like, why should I respect Tom Fosio with this, you know, it just, he's not covering himself in. and dignity or he's not deserving of my respect for this. Yeah, you don't have to, Randy.

That's beauty of this. And we're not going to. And we're not going to. Do you guys want to go, Bryson next? On Katie Miller's podcast or that's got to be a more fun transition than the distance, the next distance item. But Bryson was on Katie Miller's podcast, who is the, what's Stephen Miller's, what's his official title?

The white, he's the wife of, it's a right wing podcast. Let's say that. White House strategist or something. Yeah. And I think she works, she might work for the vice president. I don't know. He said he thinks that we did go to the moon because Elon said so, but does not think the footage is real from the moon? Sure. I, I, I think it's kind of, it's kind of cool that Bryson thinks we went to the moon.

That's kind of an upset. I would have had that he thought that moon landing was fake. I think that's kind of a dub. Guys, do you ever just get tired? I'm just, I'm tired. Do you ever just get tired? Stuff like this comes across, you know, we shared internally some PR person for Katie Miller's podcast

was sending out the bulk emails with quotes. And, you know, it's just like, man, what are we doing? What are we doing with everything? He also said, I'm in a weird space right now. I don't know what to do either content creation or professional golf. He's been teasing this.

He can't stop talking about how he might just do YouTube full time and not. I don't know what like what's going to make you happy, big dog. Do I do that, man. Go ahead and go ahead and send it. Yeah. I want you to be happy, Bryson. Just whatever fulfills you. Go do it.

Absolutely nothing stopping you. Just go out there and do it. Yeah. I just want to tell people they go to some places, very political, very, like, this is, this is obviously, like, not the super political stuff. I just found it very off. The whole thing just sucks. He didn't do media. I don't think at the PJ Championship, but then you go do this podcast. I don't know, man. It's just a, I'm losing interest in Bryson. I hate to say it. Well, he needs to play some better golf.

if you want people to ask you your opinions on a bunch of different shit you better you better bring the goods brother or else it doesn't matter yeah it just becomes like i don't know his his whole approach trying to fit into the professional game i've always found really interesting and it's just becoming less and less interesting to your point like if you're not really going to be involved in the narrative of the majors like it's just the whole thing just gets kind of kind of seen this one before man it's kind of the whole thing about youtube i will say like we've seen him fall off the map before Yeah, oh, he's not done. So, you know, I don't think, I don't think we're, this is the last of, of Bryson. I don't think so either. Quickly here, golf.com got hands on a survey that was sent to the PGA tour players and corned fairy tour players about the rollback. If you guys allow me, I'll go through some of these questions here. I'm curious how do you guys think some of these are worded, and if it's kind of pointing in a different direction. But the first question on this survey, again, they're trying to get opinions from their current players and members on what they think about the rollback.

You know, the question is, what skills should be tested more on the PJ tour than it currently is, short irons and wedges, shot shaping, long iron approaches, scrambling, driving accuracy, putting and driving distance. As a question, what has had the most impact on driving distance in the last 10 years? Please pick one driver. Go ahead. Sorry, are we going to answer these questions? Can we answer them after you ask them? I'm curious what your thoughts would be on that first question, what skill needs tested more.

I think long iron approach shots was my answer. I think their answer would be like, well, we get those on part threes. No, no, no. I want to know Neil Schuster's answer. Mine would be shot shaping. But then I'm like, people would say plant more trees and make me shape it. So I understand like there's a, there's almost like a built-in, like, there's a built-in, like, punch back into some of these answers.

Like, I know what I'm saying is going to get a response of like, yeah, okay, yeah, but I don't want that either. Because shot shaping, I don't think, is coming back without some massive changes very different to this rollback. So that's kind of like a fantasy option to me. It's like I would rather just have longer approach shots. Like that's going to, it's what's going to help restore like the natural features around holes and greens that are supposed to be coming in with.

and seven irons instead of wedges anyways uh i would just i would put a caveat that like longer approaches that don't include part three's yeah well that yeah you don't have to stretch the part threes to be massive ones you can be a lot cuter with them which i think most pros would say the shorter part threes are the better ones so uh what has the most impact on driving distance in the last 10 years please select them one option driver golf ball golf course athlete gym training and swing and speed aids or other or I'm not sure I need more information. Randy? I think it's the drug.

In the last 10 years, I think it's the driver. So then what if you bounce that out to 20? The size. Probably golf ball. This is why I found this one interesting. It was like in the last 10 years, even like me again, very pro rollback, I'd say honestly, gym training and swing and speed aids over the last 10 years have had the biggest impact. Because it's just like the data, like the track man, you know, knowing.

If I do this with my left foot, the ball goes this much farther is, I would say, especially for, you know, when I was at the US NDP camp, it's like, they are all swinging it with like a lot of ground force that you're not seeing from our generation. But doesn't that go hand in hand with the driver forgiveness? I think driver forgiveness existed in 2016 to a pretty solid level that would justify swinging it pretty hard. Like, again, if you put a persimmon in these guys' hands, I do not think gym training swing and swing and speed aids are going to have nearly the impact they have as they do with this size driverhead. You know what I mean? Yeah. They definitely have improved and they they do like the off center hits are where things

have improved probably the most over the last 10 years. But like the coefficient still off the face still has to be what 1.5 or whatever that is like you can't. I'm going to vote for other. I'm going to say T height. T height was kind of the same 10 years ago. I just don't. I feel like people are teeing up a lot higher these days and they were 10 years ago.

would welcome some pushback on that. But I think, again, I think in this, in this weird in between, T height, the ability to hit up on the ball, like, that's what prevents a lot of shot shaping for me too. So I can just can't, like, if people I plant trees, I'm like, they're just hitting it over the trees because they're all hitting up on it. You know, and that, and that's a factor of like the data and the swing aides and the crack, you know, like understanding that like launch angle is so important.

Like when we get fit, like, like, you're, you know, you want to be like 10 degrees hitting up on it. it like that we've got to get the ball in the air just a couple degrees 10 is a lot that is like or launch angle i'm talking about oh yeah sorry yeah launch angle around around 10 degrees but i think it i just found this this one kind of annoyed me because it's like 10 years is not that's not what we're talking about here 10 years ago there was a problem too it's just as has gotten worse and i i i get it that's kind of angled here as like we're trying to get back to 10 years ago uh which i don't think really solves much for a problem so next question is driving distance on the PJ tour a problem. Yes, it should be reduced from current levels. Not today, but it should be

kept at or near current levels, not at all. And it should be allowed to increase from current levels based on player performance. And I'm not sure I need more information. Yes, we know the answer to that. In my opinion, I don't, I'm curious where the answer is going to net out among most tour players. Probably, probably not today, but should be kept at near or current levels. would probably, status quo is kind of what I think a lot of people will naturally vote with. But yeah, or not at all. Honestly, I can see that. Here's where I expect a lot of bad answers from players.

If driving distances were to be reduced or maintained, what should be the main focus? Please pick one option. Golf course, golf ball, driver, other, or I'm not sure need more information. Other T-height. You're a T-Hight guy. I really think. I know it's the quickest simple. I think it's really, it sounds really stupid, but I encourage people to think about it with how bad this process is going.

Some of it is like, can we find something right now that would, would, you know, would help. And that feels like a, it might be a band-aid, but I do think the ability to tee it really, really high is a big factor and would make these guys question, should I hit driver here? If it's, you know, teed down lower, that's, that's just how I feel. So I would say T, I would say other. Yeah. I mean, I would love a more spinny golf ball, but I think the most pressing, if I could do a golf ball that spins more

or a driver that's more difficult to hit, and I can see the, and I can appreciate the skill involved in the best drivers in golf, I'm choosing the driver. I'm right there with you. I would agree with that too, Randy. The next question says if the changes were made to the driver, they should be intended to either make,

make the driver more difficult to hit or reduce the distance a driver can hit a ball. That's a tough one. I would say a little bit of both. I'd like to write in an answer here. Is that too much to ask for? I know. Yeah, probably. But when I first read this, I thought immediately, oh, make the driver more difficult to hit.

But I also think it should go less distance overall. But most of my platform is in like make it more difficult to hit. Like I still I still want you to be able to hit it far and get rewarded to doing that. Like that is a skill. But like the fact that you can hit a toe ball and it goes three percent shorter than your, than your really good balls is like the biggest problem, I think. That's what's created the cycle of guys chasing the speed and wanted to swing as fast as possible because it's just not that punishing, relatively speaking, when you hit it fast,

swing fast and hit it offline. Here we go. Into some good stuff. In your opinion, how effective is the USGA and RNA's rulemaking process and efforts been in responding to the needs, needs of the professional gain. Effective, ineffective. I'm not sure need more information. I'm curious about the needs of the professional game, but I mean, truthfully, I think the USGA and the R&A have not been effective, really. I think they've just been slow to react. I haven't agreed with like the arm lock putting. Why is that still allowed? I just think there's stuff that they could

do that they haven't and and i don't really get why i agree i feel like this is positioning them to be like you guys are super ineffective anyways and this is because we're getting to some other questions here that get a little bit more intense of like see our members just don't want to listen to you at all and i i'm again i'm wearing two hats on this i think the rule as it's written for the rollback is of course flawed and there are big problems with it but the idea that pj tors just take matters into their own hands and not follow governing bodies rules is also a dangerous in a place that I don't really want to want to end up at. I would say they've been effective to the point where we are having this conversation,

and it's a big conversation in the game of golf, and the USGA and RNA basically created that conversation. But we're, it's mid-innings, Randy. Should the PJ tour have its own rulemaking process for both play and equipment rules? answers are yes or yes but only in specific areas including this issue and no man i would be curious to hear the answer to that one because that's that would be like that would be like the nuclear option of bifurcation a lot of guys are going to say most tour players are saying yes to one of the first two yeses there's two yes options i don't think

many are going to say no like we should just blindly trust the guy like i think that's the the sentiment amongst tour players like selfishly and like I don't I don't know I don't like blame them for that like that's their careers and they don't care as much about the art of the game as some of us do or the governing bodies do so yeah they're going to vote in their interest on that one I think blah blah blah they changed testing conditions of the the the rollback rule when implemented do you believe this impact will what will you think the impact of this rule will be for the answers meet the USGA and R&A's projected impact of 9 to 11 yards for the average tour player and 13 to 15 for the longest players. Second option have some impact but not as much as projected.

Third option have no impact on the professional game. Lastly, I'm not sure. Boys personally voting, I'm not sure. I have no idea. Yeah. I think my answer would be have some impact but not as much as originally projected is what I, from what we're hearing on the test. I would echo that, Sully. Yep.

But Randy, you can also write me in for, I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm not really sure about anything. Have you tested any prototype golf balls expected to conform in the new conditions? Yes, no, I'm not sure. That is a question in there. And then ask what's the impact of your driving distance when testing these prototype balls, you know, 11 to 15 yards, 6 to 10 yards, 1 to 5.

I would love to see the full accumulation of data of everyone that's tested it and those profiles to answer that question of what the impact has been on their driving distance because that will answer a lot of things. So, um, really interesting. Across all players, do you believe this rule will have a disproportionate impact on players based on their unique swing characteristics? Yes, no, I'm not sure. I think that one. A lot of yes is there. That one distills it down to the problem, I think.

And is a fair and, uh, very pointed and direct question there. So. Sure. And then it looks like the last two of, if it's implemented, how much preparation will be required for you to transition to the new one, significant. some or minimal or I'm not sure. I think it's probably some is probably the typical answer. Minimal for me, Randy. You know, I'm an athlete, baby.

Tell me what you want me to hit. Right. And then you know how this is going to end. Based on what you know this rule and its impact on driving. Is it should the PGA tour implement this rule? Yes, no. I'm not sure. Honestly, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. Easy answer. Yeah. man who knows oh probably probably not hired a couple notes here on our way out here ratings were massive for the pga championship 5.7 million viewers up 21% from last year people hate quill hollow that much uh or love Aaron Rye that much but uh no massive massive ratings I think it's part of the bunch leaderboard sallie I think you're right if you were a PGA of America executive, that would be something they'd probably, you know, hang that on the church door to the haters and losers of like people. It's like anything could happen.

Oh, I got to tune in to see what's going on. There's some dudes in the hunt. There's just, man, there's a ton of like what's going on in Philly versus like last year. Ah, Scotty. Yeah, it looks like he's going to, I guess it wasn't, he wasn't winning though, was he at Quail? He was winning going into Was he winning? Yeah. I think Saturday was his big separation day. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like you got to be super bunched or it's got to be maybe Scotty as we get more historical. Like, oh, Scottie's got a five-shot lead now like it was with Tiger. It was almost in the in that weird in between last year where it's like, oh, yeah, this guy's running away with it. And I think Scotty, honestly, a year later is much more of a household name now than he was last year.

Yeah. I think you're right. I think a massive, a bunch leaderboard can lead to to bigger ratings. It's not necessarily like, I don't know. I don't, I guess I don't subscribe to that as like, fly the band. We were right, guys. Like, you were wrong. You can't critique this set up at all.

It's like, well, I still like what I like. I don't think that's sorted out great. I guess for in a major championship, like when it comes into like a PGA tour and I've been hard on, you know, emphasizing ratings and live, like there's been a battle for something and there's like a very clear like what is, what is this, you know, what interests are being served here among the viewing public? I don't know if massive ratings for this. It's like a big fly the banner for like PJ of America.

Nailed it all. You're welcome to to love, love what happened there. But I don't know if that just necessarily ties the ties the two together for me. Well, just a little time capsule for the listeners here. As we're recording this, Jordan Speeth just shot 62 on Friday at Byron Nelson. That's nine under, Randy. Okay. You can fly the banner on that one.

He is currently T2 at 12 under par. A lot of guys still yet to go off. But man, he had six birdies in a row. A TC plus one. That's good stuff. Double turkey. How about that? The experience is back.

And he birdied his last hole, too. That's great. It's going to be very funny if he finishes like T36 for the listeners' sake as we're recording this year. I know. That's why I said time capsule. I'm just calling out what I'm staying on the leaderboard. I also want to shout out my fellow campers from the US NDP. Got Mason Howell in the field this week.

He is currently three under par. he has he's about to tee off and then my guy Ronnie you know a guy that kind of put his arm around me and and you may maybe feel comfortable with the high schoolers Randy Ronan Banner G he is currently three under on the 16th hole just finished 16 uh projected cut is minus four so we got to get one more a couple birds come on Ronnie let's get it but on Monday qualified in which awesome it's funny just to give listeners the sense I talked a lot to him about like what's, you know, what's your game like? He's like, hey, I'm kind of a, he's like, I've been a little bit of like the slow and steady guy on the junior golf

circuit. He's like, I do not shoot a lot of rounds like over 73, but I struggle to go low. He's like, he's like, I play hard golf courses really well. I usually like live in that 68 to 72 range. And he went out and bawled out in that Monday qualifier. And you know you got to, you got to go low in that. So I was, I was fired up to see that. So shout out to Ronnie. Last been a news note, sports business journal reported on the PJ tour. of schedule. Kind of loose report, or not a loose report, but just kind of loose details on, you know, 20, looking like 23 track one events, potential markets, including Boston, Philadelphia, Nashville, San Francisco, and Seattle. I believe Soholy was the venue mentioned recently by

Josh Carpenter. Is that the potential 10,000 trees? Yeah, the megatrees. And that would include 20 track two events with around 140 man fields. Again, how that would all work between PJ PGA Tour and Corn Ferry Tour details to be, to be figured out there. but kind of in line with what we were picturing for the new schedule here in 2028. I do like the markets they called out. I know they talked about big markets, but these are kind of like bigger but like manageable markets. I think, you know, sports fans and big, big golf cultures.

I mean, Nashville, I don't know, that's a market that they probably saw Live have a lot of success in. That's interesting. But Seattle, God, hell yeah. San Francisco, Boston, Philadelphia. It feels like we're thinking the right stuff here, Randy. Yeah. Would welcome something in Denver year to year. And if a little housekeeping on our way out,

you can check out our latest episode of Hitting Cups on our YouTube channel. Benny Booms, our Benny Booms played in the Gasparilla this year. I was on the bag for that. It's very funny, But I watched it this morning with my son. And P.D., you know, he once watched Trash Truck. And he was like kind of, he locked in for about 15 minutes with me. He was, you know, I was like, that's Uncle Sally.

That's Uncle Ben. Ben, early on, good. Swing looked really good. You know, I think a lot of trouble left. It looked like we were a lot of block city out there. It's hard out there. It's very, very, very hard. And I'll say this, you have a beautiful mind as a caddy.

I was, I was so descriptive. Great for the viewer. Not sure about Ben, but great for the viewer. you're Ben literally asked me, is it give me all you can, give me all you can. And I got said, I got,

it was very funny, so I'm of two minds of this. Like DJ and he were making me laugh very hard. They were clack. He was cracking me up. It's very funny. But the very first hole, Ben is like,

yeah, it's like a cup out. And I was like, no, no, it's less than that. Like I was very descriptive on that. And they're like, wow,

Sally, really uncommitted there gave them. I was like, oh, God, I am absolutely in for a roasting today. Like, like they thought I was the one giving both of those options. And I was like, oh, we're off on the wrong foot.

You were so good at it. And like his his feedback on like what DJ asked him early on. Like what do you look at fratik? He's like I hate like pet peeves. I hated it when I'd be like 132 and the caddy come back and be like it's 133. He's like, dude. Like just say, just agree with me on that one. You know, I thought that was like that's good, very good stuff.

He kept judging me against what would be a good caddy for him. Like if I was caddy for him, I would have, I don't even know if I would have given them in the yardage. I'd like, you do that. I'll give you the clubs. but Ben wanted the full treatment and listen to didn't didn't go great for us. Hey, I just want to call out Ben's got game people. So that,

that and I saw I put a practice round with you down at, at Palmacia. That place is tough, man, really hard. So like that shit can happen when you're hitting cups. So all you haters and losers listen up. Oh,

yeah. Yeah. And he, in the middle of winter, like for him was not playing a lot of green grass golf. And like in between rounds one and two, he got the flu as well. I could have withdrawn.

It was a really tough week for him. I was gutted for him and he will be back beating our asses whenever we let him out from behind the camera again. Sure. We are traveling this week, as noted earlier on. Stay tuned for this coming Tuesday. We're going to have part one of our Pete Dye Deep Dive, massive deep dive with our guy, Charles Van Kirk. Just massive. Talk about massive.

Oh, my God. Separated to two parts. Part one is going to drop on Tuesday. Part two will be in the place of our normal Sunday recap next week. week. Just so many great stories in this. I haven't heard it yet, actually, but I know I've been a part of some of the interviews and there's just, there's just going to be a lot in this. That's a lot. Randy, we carved out three hours on Wednesday to record it. So we used up all that three hours. And then we came back at 8.m. And we didn't stop recording until midnight.

It was a big, it was a big ass project. So look forward to that. We're going to leave you with a bit of a tease here, a short episode or short interview. you clip here from Bobby Weed who is a star of this one. Just kind of give you an idea of the nature of Pete Dye as we and yeah, make sure I tune in for this. This is a great, great

project. We're going to be on the road for a little while, stepping away. I got a lot of stuff pre-recorded for you though. So the podcast will be on its normal cadence and we'll be back with some great content from Taurus. But thank you everyone for tuning in. We'll see you back here soon. Cheers. Well, there's some really great Dominican Pete stories

about his place down there. going down there at Casa de Campo, yeah. A lot of great stories there. Would you indulge me with one? Sure. Well, they built this. He had a lot on the right of home number seven, part three.

I always told the maintenance guys to throw all the trash, throw all the trash from the golf course storms on his lot. They'd throw cobble and rock and trees and... lawn fronds and everything. But one day he decided to build a house. And he said, we're just, we're going to build a house and we're just going to use all the rubble that we've, all the stuff that we've collected and everything.

Okay. So they built this, they built this house out of all native native materials from off the golf course and stuff. Trees, there's no nails, that truth, rock walls, coral rock walls, tree limbs, for beams. Very, very Dominican, very cool. Had five little huts all connected by little walkways. It was really very, very, very Dominican.

There was a guy that had a lot beside Pete. He was from Italy, some Italian guy that only came once or twice a year. But he always walked around and said, yeah, one of the world's great architects, Pete Dye, you know, he's got the lot. We're neighbors. You know, he's going to build and we're neighbors. We're going to be neighbors. I've got the lot right beside him. He had this big, big Italian mausoleum looking home. And he came in town after Pete had built his house. He got in at night, late at night.

So he got up the next morning, and he was going to go out back and jump in his pool. And the story was he got up and walked out back to jump in his pool and looked out and saw Pete's house. And his comment was, oh, my God, the son of a bitch built five orange juice stands. And Pete hooked up the irrigation system into his house from the golf court. He hooked up the golf force irrigation system into his house for his plumbing and had a little too much pressure. And they flushed the toilet and the toilet just blew off. It just completely just blew up into the air.

120 pounds of pressure. And Alice said they turned the shower on and he said it would not only take the hair off your skin, it would take the skin off your bones off your arm. But he was just, that's just how eccentric he was. You know, he was just, he was very practical, but at the same time he was just incredibly eccentric. And the guys would be going around spraying the golf course. She'd whistle for him to come over,

and the guy on the sprayer would come over, and he'd get the hand boom, and he'd take the hand boom, you know, they were spraying for bugs or something for insecticide, it was insecticide, and he would, um, he would, um, he would get the handgun off the spray tank and go spray the thatched roof and everything for bugs and everything in the house. He'd just go spray this thing all over the house. I mean, he was just, it was crazy.